Best of 2 Pros and a Cup of Joe

Brian & Geoff talk about Canada winning the Four Nations Face-Off and what it will do for hockey, how Jayden Daniels' success could affect Cam Ward & Shadeur Sanders, what the future holds for Sam Darnold, and more!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is the best of two pros and a couple
with Lamar airings and rating Win and Jonas Knots on radio.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
Man, I'm surprised you showed up today, Jeff, because all
the cash you won in the first period of the
Four Nations face off. Good calls by you. You laid
it out for us too. You're like, I'm gonna take
the exact score one to one at four to one
odds and well and behold it's one to one at
the end of the first period. Very nice calls by

(00:34):
you over there.

Speaker 3 (00:35):
Thank you. But yeah it was a good you know,
good uh good you know for me, bad for the USA.
But no, I did hit. I was up at four
for four in my first period of waits. I did,
I will impact. I miss the thing. I did end
up taking Canada because that was the right you did
I did.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
Yeah, there you go, But but.

Speaker 3 (00:56):
Also because someone else took you, I say, and I
just are unaware. I fade a couple of people who
give out plays on the old Internet, and I make
a lot of money doing it. Yeah. I hit a
reverse parlay again last night, which basically just take the
opposite of the plays and put them in a parlay.

(01:18):
I mean, it's it's quite a profitable business. And said
person had USA and I was like, you know what,
everyone's on USA. It makes a lot of sense to
take Canada here, and I did. But they were also
I thought they were also the not the better team,
but like they were, it was their time to win
this one, especially after losing in the first game. I'll

(01:39):
tell you what to me the results of the game. Obviously,
if you're Canada or USA and you're a hardcore hockey fan,
you you're probably into the results of the game or
anything else. But I'll tell you what, Brian, what a
success for hockey, man. I mean, I'm not sure you
could have asked for a better two weeks for the sport.

(02:00):
I mean there are people that, just myself that might
not enjoy hockey as much during the regular season, I
do watchof hockey. I think it's awesome to then just
put my focus into this event. Dude, I mean, what
what a win?

Speaker 2 (02:17):
Yeah for hockey.

Speaker 3 (02:19):
I mean I would imagine this is the highest righted
hockey game in centuries. I couldn't even tell you. I
mean what everyone was paying attention to this.

Speaker 2 (02:28):
Yeah, it was a big deal and there are a
lot of just not even hockey fans that were all
in on this thing. It was such a success and
you pause and you think, hey, what would this have
been if not for the Four Nations Face Off? You're like,
I would be an overlooked All Star game. Like that's
what they replaced the All Star Game with was the

(02:50):
Four Nations face Off. It was tremendous, it was great.
It's an absolute Grand Slam for hockey. And listen, I
don't think this is going to help their NHL ratings
by leaps and bounds, but it's gonna help somewhat. It's
gonna give them a bit of a boost. And think
down the line too, Jeff, where you don't know what
the Stanley Cup final matchup is going to be. Maybe

(03:12):
it's gonna be some of these players that were highlighted
in the Four Nations face Off, and it's gonna be
marketed a bit like that. Imagine if there's a member
from Team Canada on one team and a member of
Team USA on the other team. Or you're gonna get
some added bonuses if you're the NHL down the road,
granted not by leaps and bounds, but any little thing

(03:35):
a lot of little things can add up and make
a difference, and I think at a minimum there's gonna
be a little ratings boost based on this thing. There
just has to be in my mind.

Speaker 3 (03:44):
But even if it's not that substantial, you're gonna enter
next year. I'm not sure doing four Nations next job,
no idea.

Speaker 2 (03:54):
I think it's the Olympics that they've what do they
have going? Yeah, Olympics.

Speaker 3 (03:58):
Yeah, it's like you're gonna enter and people are gonna
be excited to watch Olympic hockey more than you. Yeah,
the payoff to me is more down the road than
it is this this season. Again, I don't think you're
gonna have I think I sent you to tweet. Uh
the you know, the joke of like there was an
American in the crowd who was fully singing the anthem,

(04:19):
like in tears, and and the joke was like all
all of you that just learned four Nations was happening
four days ago, Like a lot of us were like, oh,
four Nations. And then of course the first game and
you saw that, you know, the the the social media
kind of accounted and how they were acting about and
so you put it on right, you paid attention, so

(04:39):
like no one's Goulda now watched rending season hockey. But
I will tell you it's kind of cool that there's
reports that the players who played in this tournament will
probably actually not be ready to start the regular season,
the regular season the game because they're so exhausted from
playing this tournament, which is like which imagine about like
the NBA. Also, you know what, too tired from playing

(05:02):
the All Star weekend to play when they come back.
I mean, I'll tell you what the sixers look like.
They were too tired. It didn't care enough last night.
But nonetheless, it was impressive, it was fun. And the
last point here is again like so many sporting events
we hype up and doesn't deliver, it's delivered. I mean,

(05:24):
you had a game that went into overtime and the
best player made the play in the end, which I
think you want, right, you want your best player to
have a say at the end, and McDavid made he did.
I mean, kenn has been waiting for him to do
that and he did, and that's what you want in sport.

Speaker 2 (05:43):
Yeah, it was amazing, it really was. It delivered. I
thought it was awesome. It was dramatic, goes into overtime,
there's a winning goal, like you said by Connor McDavid,
Canada wins three to two. It was great, man, it was,
and it wasn't one of these I was happy for hockey.
You know, everybody in this country pretty much wanted the

(06:04):
US to win, but that didn't happen. But it wasn't
like this four to one boring game. You know the
result pretty much there's an empty net, but you know,
there's not really much of a chance that sort of thing.
It was a nail bier, an absolute nail bier. So
it's cool that it was that close of a game
on top of everything else, like the previous game and

(06:27):
the three fights and nine seconds, all this stuff with
the anthem and people are booing it and then there's
all this, you know, the frustration and backdrop, and it
was tremendous. Man like that. That to me, Jeff, is
kind of like a movie script and you're like, Okay,
this is getting a little cheesy with what and it

(06:49):
really happened, Like when it's real and it happens like that,
it's awesome. I thought it was just awesome for the
sport man. It was good to see that because hockey
has often overlooked and it had its moment in the
sun for the better part of a week and a half.
It's great.

Speaker 3 (07:05):
Yeah, and again I correct the players because they obviously
cared right like, they cared and they made sure that
that they gave their best effort. Which you can't fake
hockey either, which is important to note, Like you just
you can't fake playing hockey, which makes it, you know, again,
a game where an All Star Game or something like that,

(07:26):
you just can't pretend, Brian. So that also makes it
fun because the players like they have to play hard. Yeah,
there's no choice.

Speaker 2 (07:37):
You know. We have a mutual friend Nate Brown in
South Dakota. Yes, he does some local radio. Awesome dude,
shout out to Rapid City, you know, the Black Hills
over there, you know. So we go on from time
to time with Nate, and so I was on with
him yesterday and he was asking me about four Nations
and they He just asked me a question of like,

(07:58):
where are you on hockey? And I'm like, I really
don't pay attention to it, right because it's the ratings
aren't great and we don't talk about it a whole
lot with Fox sports radio, you know, like the national scene,
we don't do a whole lot of talking about it.
He's like, beyond that, what is it about the sport
that you just don't care for? And in the moment,
I really didn't have a good answer. I'm like, it

(08:19):
checks a lot of boxes, like me as a sports fan.
It's an intense sport. It's physical, it's fast, it's got
a lot of stuff that I like. And I'm like,
I don't know. I did some thinking about it, and
I would say two things here, Jeff, where why I'm
not in love with it? Okay, I don't know where
you are with it, but to me, it's I'm not

(08:42):
a huge fan of puck luck. They'll say this quite
a bit in the sport where you know, they shoot
the pluck near the net and it bounces off one
guy's elbow and the other guy's beard and it goes
in and you're like, okay, dude, Like that's what are
we doing here? That happens quite a bit. I don't
love that. But the other thing I don't love is
if you compare it to football, think about the situations

(09:03):
that happen all the time in football. You know what
I mean, like, hey, we're on the outskirts of field
goal range. Do we kick it here? Or do we
go for it on fourth and two? Or like, all right,
it's second and eight, what would be a good play here.
It's just all situations, you know, like situation after situation.
I missed that in hockey, that's one of the things.

(09:25):
But that didn't show up last night at all. You
put that completely on the shelf. But I think that
does explain why I'm not all in. I'm not gonna
be like, oh, shoot, the Blackhawks are on tonight, I'm in, like,
and I think it might explain why a lot of
people might not be fully invested either.

Speaker 3 (09:43):
Well, I didn't grow up playing hockey.

Speaker 2 (09:46):
Well that's another big start.

Speaker 3 (09:47):
Sure, Yeah, it's hard to like to care as much
when I didn't grow up playing it, you know, Like
that's that's a big part of it, Like we just
did just I didn't do it, and so like how
hard to be excited for it when I just didn't
do it as a kid. And that's part of it,
I think for me. And you know, when it's when

(10:08):
football season's happening, obviously we're sot into ball, right when
when we have other sports college basketball and other backs
like we played those games like I, So I think
that's a part of it as well. It's just that
a lot of us didn't grow up with it, so
it's hard some times to get into it. Doesn't mean
that obviously the sport is bad or unwatchable, just that
that's it for me. It's as hard to introvi it.

(10:29):
I just didn't play it as a kid.

Speaker 2 (10:31):
Yeah, that's a good one too, because think that the
other popular sports chances are, like maybe if you didn't
even play basketball at a high level, you've shot hoops.
You know, you've gone to the three point line. You
know how hard it is. Golf, you might know that, football, baseball,
you know, you know how hard it is. So you
have a much further appreciation for those guys making it

(10:53):
look so easy. You might not have even put skates
on before, you know what I mean. So it's hard
to be really appreciate. You know they're making it look easy,
but you don't fully know because I've never shot a
hockey puck in my life, you know, I don't know
how hard that truly is. I can just guess that's
a good one. Yeah, that's what I think it is.

Speaker 3 (11:13):
I it's hard to times to just get involved in
some sports when just you didn't play them.

Speaker 2 (11:20):
Yeah, so what was the official tally for you? Were
you five for five last night betting the Four Nations?
That's what you ended up being. Yeah, Man, good for you, dude.
And a couple of those are plus money, right.

Speaker 3 (11:33):
Yeah, I hit I hit a plus money on both
teams to score in the first.

Speaker 2 (11:38):
Period, the exact score being one to one.

Speaker 1 (11:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (11:43):
How about this. I'm gonna give a shout out to So.
I do some radio on other networks, but one of
them I work with a guy named Wes Reynolds, and
he gives out golf. He's very good at golf, he said.
I think he's hit three out one winners so far
this season. So the Mexico opens happening right now, Brian,

(12:05):
and I just I read his article like two days ago.
Why not? I don't know, West knows. We was talking
about I need something to maybe watch this weekend. Yeah,
and uh he gave an eighty to one as one
of his uh one of the shots leader after round one. Wow, dude,
So if I hit that after hitting oberg last weekend? Man,

(12:28):
just just on a run right now, so hopefully, look,
you have to enjoy the runs because you do have
a run the other direction.

Speaker 2 (12:35):
Man, You've said this before. There are stretches in the NFL.
You just can't win. You just can't nothing.

Speaker 3 (12:42):
It's the harder sport. So that's why it's just the
most miserable and we love it the most. It's why.
It's just like you're just like, it's so frustrating when
you can't win in the NFL.

Speaker 2 (12:49):
It is because that's the thing, Like you and I
we watched this stuff religiously, and if you're on a
bit of a cold streak, you're like, Okay, all signs
point to this happening, how is this not happening? And
then it won't happen, you know what I mean, Like
the cold streak continues.

Speaker 3 (13:06):
It's frustrating because we're supposed to know football too, like
the news for me, right, Like I'm supposed to know
football and not be able to give out winners to
be frustrating, but hey, that's uh, that is football. That's
why it's the hardest sport to bet on.

Speaker 2 (13:20):
That It is kind of funny too, because you know,
over the years, we'll bet on sports that we don't,
I'll bet on the World Cup. And sometimes ignorance is bliss,
you know, where I'm like, hey, this one team is
playing better than this other squad today, and you're like,
do you realize how great Germany is in soccer? And

(13:41):
I'm like, yeah, I do. But this other team no, no, no,
do you understand? I like, yeah, sure, but I'm taking
the under the other team at like twelve to one
in game and it works out, you know, So sometimes
not knowing helps you.

Speaker 3 (13:54):
Yeah, I do some soccer, but it's it's it's just
as straight. Does someone tell me what wager on?

Speaker 2 (14:01):
Yeah, that's probably a better way to do it.

Speaker 3 (14:03):
It's just it's just so hard sometimes, you know. It's
just it's a tough, tough sports to wager on.

Speaker 1 (14:08):
It is.

Speaker 2 (14:08):
It's not easy.

Speaker 1 (14:09):
Be sure to catch live editions of Two Pros and
a Cup of Joe with Brady Quinn, LeVar Errington, and
Jonas Knox weekdays at six am Eastern three am Pacific
on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.

Speaker 2 (14:23):
Jaden Daniels Right, such a special season for the Washington Commanders,
and you look at the potential impact on this year's draft,
where you can dive into it a little bit more.
But you were talking about cam Ward and where he
would rank as a quarterback prospect if he came out
in last year's draft, right like everybody around him, and

(14:45):
even if does it work both ways too, If you
had all of the quarterbacks from last year, if they
were prospects this year, cam Ward would rank round sixth
or seventh in the eyes of the talent evaluators.

Speaker 3 (14:58):
Yes, we covered this on the show and the last
week or Sunday. You know, this is a quarterback class
that is not great, it's fine, but cam Ward out
of Miami UH is the most talented player. He's the
most talented quarterback option. But you know there's a lot

(15:19):
of you're watch him player, like, don't do that, buddy. Yeah,
but but he has an incredible talent, like his arm
is it's it's the physical gifts are amens. And you
know cam has not played a ton of ball. He
was a high school quarterback. I believe in a small
Texas town that they actually did not did not pass

(15:42):
the ball. He went incarnate word and this is during COVID,
so he actually ended up playing a I think it
was a spring season and then a fall season back
to back because they had you know, that weird situation
where they canceled a fall year and then they played
instead in that level. So like he he played a

(16:04):
lot of ball quickly, then went to Washington State and
then went to Miami. So he's sort of like he
didn't play quarterback until Incarnate Word. He had not really,
I mean, hee not throw the ball to Incarnate Word.
So he's still I think a little raw, but the
physical gifts are there, like you can see the talent
that is there, but again, some throws that you'd rather
have back. And then Jerry Sanders is sort of a

(16:26):
classic you know, pocket passer. He he is good in
the pocket. He he is an okay arm he's an
okay athlete, but he makes good decisions at times. I
think sometimes there's some Caleb Williams to him where he
tries to do too much because he has to on
his team, you know, with the way they played it
to certain times over the years. But there's some questions there.

(16:49):
I think that you know, if you were to to
compare them to last year's quarterbacks, as as we mentioned
cam Ward, would I think Daniel Jeremiah has to do
the tweet right yesterday said he would be behind bow
Nicks rankings and Shade would behind all those guys. So
it's not the strongest quarterback class. And you know, a
couple of teams need need quarterbacks and you hope that

(17:10):
you know, you probably don't need one this season. I
think I think both these guys. Of course, where you go,
who's your coach? I mean all that stuff matters to success.
But there's some questions I think about about both these
guys in the ability to be you know, I mean
not not even Jane Daniels just like good in the NFL.

Speaker 2 (17:27):
Right, No, it's fair, but I think we both agree
that the success that Jade and Daniels had with Washington precedented.
I know it.

Speaker 1 (17:37):
Well.

Speaker 2 (17:38):
C J. Stroud had a great rookie season, all so,
Herbert had a great rookie season, but Jayden Daniels was
he was electric man, He was fantastic and to take
over as a number two overall pick and take over
the grease fire that was the Washington Commanders and take
him to the NFC title game, you know, as great
of a rookie year as c J. Stroud had. They
made a quick exit in the playoffs his rookie seas.

(18:00):
You know, they went to Baltimore and it was like, okay.
That said for the postseason this year, that was not
the case with Washington making it all the way to
the NFC Title Game, taking down Detroit on the road
and going for it fourth down after fourth out. It
was an insane run from Washington. But that can only
help cam Ward and should do it. It's a layer, right,

(18:22):
It's not the only layer that's going to help them.
You know how it goes, it's supply and demand with quarterbacks.
There are a lot of teams that need qbs and
the supply is low. That's gonna help their value as well.
But you're not going to see these guys. It's a
little bit like bo Knicks last year, right, little bit,
But I think it's gonna be taking a step further

(18:42):
because you saw how much hitting on a guy like
Jaden Daniels does for your franchise, and so these other
teams are gonna talk themselves into hey man, cam Ward
can because they want to believe it. And I'm not
saying he can't. But you're just going to want to
see the next thing you just saw with Jayden.

Speaker 3 (19:01):
Yeah, you're gonna you're gonna want that and you're gonna
but also too because this league is a quarterback heavy,
you know, you might just have to draft Cam Moore
for the Titans. But I will say, I mean, Travis
Hunter is is really that good that like you might
just say, you know what, we'll punt on quarterback. But

(19:21):
Tennessee's is in an unique spot because they're in year
two now with Brian Callahan as their head coach, and
you probably can't go into year three without a quarterback.
Like you know, they're gonna fire you if you don't
draft a quarter if you don't hit on a quarterback
in the totally year. But you know, he's not making
the decisions, right, there's a general manager who makes decisions
there for for for the team. So Tennessee's really fascinating

(19:44):
because there's already reports out about them possibly wanting to
trade out, which makes total sense of number one and
getting a quarterback either later or just someone else right yours.
You know about in a given year, by the way,
thirty two p obviously in the first round, I mean,
there's a rare year when there are more than you know,

(20:05):
fifteen seventeen first round grades just the way the sport is.
This year's like twelve, it's not a heavy class.

Speaker 2 (20:13):
Of yable players.

Speaker 3 (20:15):
But trading out is trading back is always the answer,
by the way, and this is my favorite part about
end up being my least favorite part about sort of
draft social media is everyone always says that X team
should trade.

Speaker 2 (20:29):
Out, trade out, trade out, trade out.

Speaker 3 (20:30):
Yeah, And my thing is always like, great, I'm with you,
but give me give me the trade. Like you can't
just say that do you want a team to trade out?
Give me who's trading who's trading up for the number
one pick in the draft, Because yeah, I want to
trade out too, But that doesn't mean that the team
that is going to do it or there's a team
available to do it with. So make sure that when
you talk about the draft, give me give me the team.

(20:52):
Who do you want to trade out? So again, I
do like and the quarterbacks are are there's questions about
them the Nascus last season and I'm curious what you know,
what what Tennessee does there?

Speaker 2 (21:07):
Well, and think about that too, Jeff. Where if you
are a team that's thinking about trading up for cam
Ward or should do her, that's a different ball game.
That's scary, right if you just happen to be on
the clock and you're like, okay, we didn't give up
a ton of draft capital to get in range to

(21:28):
pick one of these guys. That's a different scenario than
all right, are we going to package our our one
next year? Are to this year? It's like, are we
doing that for these guys?

Speaker 1 (21:40):
Right?

Speaker 2 (21:40):
Yeah, it's different when you think about it, Like I.

Speaker 3 (21:42):
Feel that feels scary to trade up for one of
these guys. But again, again I'll go back to sort
of if you are the Raiders, for example, now you
have a new coach, you sort of reset your clock,
but like you probably can't go into next year without
mean quarterback at some point, right.

Speaker 2 (22:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (22:02):
The Titians, I think, come are the one that really
if you're Brian Callahan, like you you need a quarterback
in the worst way. Again, new general manager might reset
that clock for you for a year, but you know,
but there are teams again that that need those guys
because they got to keep their jobs. And the Giants
what the Giants. If Brian Dabole doesn't, he's gone, like
he is out of here. So yeah, Giants to me

(22:23):
are a team that needs a quarterback, they trade up
and get the guy they want. So some of those
roster decisions have to be made because of fear of
getting fired, which is not the best way to build
your roster, Brian, But that is the reality of the NFL.

Speaker 2 (22:37):
Yeah, that's the other part. There's so many interesting parts.
But which teams are more likely to trade up to
get their QB, say, like the Raiders you just mentioned
the Giants, those are decent candidates.

Speaker 3 (22:50):
I think the Raiders would pass on doing that. To
be honest with you, I think the Giants are are
up there as far as I think they would do that. Again,
they just sort of they in the worst way. They
need successive quarterback this season, and I could see them
making a jump for it. But but again, I mean,
the player you do it for is is uh Is

(23:11):
cam Warden. You're not doing it for sure, ure in
my opinion?

Speaker 2 (23:14):
Right right, Well, and take a team that's there within
range to draft a QB. What about the Browns. We
know about their situation right right. You have DeShawn you
have all this money designated to him, He's on the
shelf with then achilles injury. You second, overall, this is
as cheap as it gets for a quarterback, like financially.

Speaker 3 (23:36):
Yeah, I'm curious. So do we know what they can
and can't do with Watson's deal? Like are they are
they avoiding it?

Speaker 1 (23:46):
Is that?

Speaker 3 (23:46):
Is that happening? Because if if you're telling me they're
avoiding his deal, right, then I think you're you're one
hundred percent going quarterback because you know, because I think
I think they can. They can't avoid it, right, I
think I don't.

Speaker 2 (23:59):
I'm not sure or what they can do. I know
they can, you know, space it out. They can, you know,
try to get a few breaks along the way financially,
like spread out the money that they owe him. I
don't know what they could do in terms of getting
away from it.

Speaker 3 (24:16):
Yeah, because what they do a quarterback is so interesting
to me for many reasons, But one of them is
Miles Garrett because he wants to play obviously, you know,
for a team that they can win a championship. You know,
if if you get a quarterback that he feels is
that guy? Does he does he like sind his trade?
Does he like his not his trade offer? But does
he say, hey, man, I'm fine staying here. I think

(24:38):
like that that's a that's a pretty unique situation because
if they get that quarterback, I could see him and say, oh,
I find him staying.

Speaker 2 (24:44):
Yeah, it'd be kind of funny if they they tried
to talk him into it that way, like, hey, there's
this cam Ward guy pretty good.

Speaker 3 (24:50):
Well, sure cam Ward is the guy that he feels
that way, but I'm not. There's probably not even a
veteranor that you feel great about. But I do wonder
if cam if Miles Garrett decides to send this trade
you know offer, I guess no, we're sending it, but
his idea he wants out if they fixed quarterback.

Speaker 2 (25:06):
Well that's true, but you know, it'd just be funny
if they try to talk him into it that way
and he's like cam Ward, yeah, no thanks, yeah, trade request,
this is still in play.

Speaker 3 (25:17):
Yeah. I don't see him caring much about cam Ward.
I mean, he's he's a defensive end. He's not out
there watching like you know, quarterbacks, like a quarterback film.

Speaker 2 (25:27):
By the way, Jeff, I have to throw this your
way too, because cam Ward said something just the other day. Yeah,
and he's like, I'll remember in terms of teams who
skip him to the draft, right, which is fine. I
get this. He's got confidence in himself. His full quote is,
if you don't draft me, that's your fault. You've got

(25:48):
to remember you're the same team that's got to play
me for the rest of my career. And I'll remember that.
And he might be right. He might make teams pay
if they pass on him. Time will tell. But it
reminded me of Josh Rosen's quote. Yeah, remember when he
was drafted in twenty eighteen, he goes, just to look
back on it, it's hilarious. Nine mistakes were made ahead

(26:09):
of me, and I will make sure over the next
decade or so that they will know that they made
a mistake. And you look at who was drafted ahead
of him, Jeff, Yeah, Josh Rosen's career fizzled out immediately.

Speaker 3 (26:22):
Yeah, it was clear he was the problem.

Speaker 2 (26:24):
Yeah, but there are names like I'll just go in
order because I don't want to bypass anybody. Okay, we're
talking like Pro bowlers, all these guys. Baker Mayfield has
had a resurgence. Saquon Barkley went number two that draft.
It's been insanely great this past season. Sam Darnold had
a resurgence last season. Denzel Ward Brown's cornerback Bradley Chubbs

(26:46):
had some good years in Denver and Miami, Quinton Nelson
the stud guard with the Colts, Josh Allen with the Bills,
ro Kwan Smith with the Bears, and now the Ravens.
There's some star talent there. And he's like, yeah, there
were nine mistakes ahead of me. He turned out to
be the only mistake in the top ten.

Speaker 3 (27:07):
Okay, So two things here. One is that I think
you have to have that confidence as a player.

Speaker 2 (27:14):
Absolutely.

Speaker 3 (27:15):
I'm actually like, okay with that confidence, right, Like, you
pass on me, it's your fault, You're it's you know,
you're in a rough way. But two, Josh Rose said
after he was drafted, Cam Moore at least is saying
up before he was Yeah, just to me, it's a
little different, right, like, don't pass on me, you'll regret it.

(27:36):
Where Josh Rosen was taken, I think later he thought
he'd be taken and that's why I said that. Yeah,
So because it's a little bit different. But I look, man,
you got if you are my quarterback, I draft you
in the first you know, ten picks, whatever it is,
I want you to feel that way. I want you
to feel that confident about your abilities that you're you're

(27:58):
willing to say that to everyone. That's what I that's
what I want. So I'm fine with it. You know,
post draft, I might feel a little differently because at
that point you should be focused on your team and
no one else's team. So saying that post draft, right,
Joshua said it post draft, I'm right on that, right, Yeah,

(28:19):
So post draft, I want you to me to worry
about the team you're on now, right, it's like, hey,
thank you Cardinals, Like, let's get to work. The past
is the past. Let's do it before the draft. Yeah, man,
be as cocky as you want. I'm I'm fine with that,
and Kim Ward should be right with heising finalists. Clearly,

(28:39):
you know best. If you're putting to you're a head
of cam Ward in your grading. I think you're just
doing it to appease the internet. I don't know what
other reason you would do it. There's just no film
evidence that's up that that gives you that impression. Because
you have to also grade on potential, right, it's part

(29:02):
of the great right, it's potential, and there's there's a
lot more physical potential for Kim Ward to just get better.
Then there is should should sure, I think is sort
of what he's going to be. Obviously, that's that's pretty
simple to say that. I don't think you know, that's
a simple way to look at it. But he is
what he is, Kim Ward has the potential to just

(29:23):
get a lot better.

Speaker 1 (29:25):
Be sure to catch live editions of Two Pros and
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Speaker 2 (29:35):
Man, I'm curious what you think about this story here, Jeff.
So your guy Sam Donald, you know where you're not
an uber Sam Darnald fan. You've been on record saying
that the Vikings have to move on, which I agree with. Right,
it was right, Yeah, you're right. Here's the interesting scenario,
So the Vikings could franchise tag Sam Donald Kevin o'ca

(30:01):
During Super Bowl Week, the head coach of the Vikings,
Kevin O'Connell, said that Donald has earned the right to
free agency. Where you start to think about that and
you read between the lines, and on one hand, it's like, well,
we don't really want to slap the franchise tag on
him and him be our guy for another season at

(30:24):
the two to forty one point three million dollars. Right,
we've got JJ McCarthy. The other part of this is,
let's say they they slapped a franchise tag on him
and then they tried to trade him. It's an honest question,
how much do you think another team would be willing
to give the vikings in a trade? And that's the

(30:44):
thing is depending on the exact tag. Right, No one's
giving two first round picks for Sam Darnold. Let's start
with that. So if you put a different tag on him,
you could lose him for nothing. You're probably just gonna
let him go, get a compensate toory and call it
a day, because I think that's your only real course
of action. It's it's long term extension for Sam Donald

(31:08):
or it's let him go. And it looks like they're
gonna let him go.

Speaker 3 (31:12):
Yeah, the franchise tag. See, the problem is if you
franchise him, Brian, you're on the hook for that money.
Like he's right, if he signs that deal, dude, like
that's it. You're on the hook for that money. And again,
like the thing about about trading him is like, who's
who's doing it? Right? We just talked about the teams
that might need a quarterback, but they also might just

(31:34):
draft a quarterback, right, So I think he's just you
want you know, people will say, well, you know, franchise
tag here because you can get something in return, right,
you want something in return. But the truth is you
might not like anything for return, Like that's part of life.
Like in the NFL, you might not get a return.

(31:55):
And is it worth being stuck with Sam Donald or
getting a return? Right, Like, that's a involved here, and
I would argue that it's not worth it. It's not all
worth it. So yeah, he's gonna walk. You drafted McCarthy
for a reason. It frustrates the heck out of me,
how and I understand moving on from draft picks as

(32:17):
soon as you know if they're good or bad. We
don't think about McCarthy yet. He's never played a football
game yet and you drafted him a year ago. Why
would your priors move off of him because Sam Donald
played well? Right, The answer is it should move off
of him, like there's no there's no actual reason to
off of them. It's just he didn't play. So your
prior should still be there. You should still think to yourself,

(32:39):
he's my franchise guy. We've got to play it now.

Speaker 2 (32:42):
That's it, right, And I look at it where it's
funny because there are two schools of thought. Right. You
could look at this and say, hey, Sam Donald played
really well throughout most of the season. Thirty five touchdown passes,
pretty good season, right among the league leaders in many categories. YadA, YadA, YadA.
You could look at this and say that's great except
when it mattered most, and he was freaking brutal. Okay,

(33:05):
like the last regular season game against the Lions, the
playoff game against the Rams, he was brutal when it
counted most. And I would look at this where you
could say, what was Sam Darnald before the Vikings? What
was he before Kevin O'Connell as his head coach? Justin Jefferson,
you know, Dj Hawkinson, all these guys to throw to,
He didn't do anything. So, if anything, I would be

(33:28):
more optimistic that JJ McCarthy can be a real player
for you, because Sam Donald was never a player for
anybody in his entire NFL career until he got to Minnesota,
So why would I believe something similar couldn't happen with
JJ McCarthy, a guy they drafted for a reason, I
would move off of Sam. This is the the I

(33:50):
think this is an honest question. If forget about the
franchise tag, forget about all of that, just for a second.
If the Vikings said, we're trading Sam Darnald, what draft
compensation do you think he would reasonably like fetch? What
do you think another team be willing to give up
for Sam? A two?

Speaker 3 (34:13):
I would imagine a conditional like maybe a conditional three.
I guess four.

Speaker 2 (34:18):
Yeah, a three that turns to a two with the
right Okay, something like that. Does that feel fair about Yeah?
I think it feels about fair. But that's the deal
for anyone who's like, why would they get rid of
someone who is just really successful? You don't know anything
about JJ McCarthy. It's like, look at the rest of
the league. If there's a true difference maker at quarterback

(34:41):
and that team is like, yeah, we're trading him, a
true difference maker is going to get way more than
a three that could convert to a two, you know
what I mean, Like a second round pick for a
like a top ten difference making quarterback. That's stealing. That's
about what Sam would get because he's not that guy.
He's not a true difference maker. I think he's more

(35:03):
Geno Smith. Right, we saw this with Gina, very similar
career path.

Speaker 3 (35:06):
This is what I said, I think months ago. I
think that the comp is Geno here like it's and yeah,
I mean they did sign you know, Gino did sign
that that short term deal. But that's about what I
would what I would pay, Like, that's that's about what
I would pay if I was doing Donald, it'd be
a mid level deal.

Speaker 2 (35:26):
Where do you think he's going Raiders?

Speaker 3 (35:30):
Who I don't know? Buddy?

Speaker 2 (35:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (35:35):
See the thing about Donald is again this is where
the if the draft was before free agency, we'd have
a different answer for you.

Speaker 2 (35:42):
You know, I think is interesting with the Raiders is
Tom Brady being a part of that organization. Yeah, so
his fingerprints are all over that. Do you see Brady saying,
you know, I think Sam Darnold is our best path
forward here I'm seeing that.

Speaker 3 (35:56):
I know, I know it's a good question. I mean,
the Raiders are an option. I feel like you know
there there they are an option because you'd be like, well,
not just the quarterback, but can't do the Jets.

Speaker 2 (36:11):
I know you can't.

Speaker 3 (36:13):
He's not going back home.

Speaker 2 (36:15):
So that's all they go, Jeff, there.

Speaker 3 (36:19):
I don't you know, there's always a surprise team, Like
there's a possibility someone decides to Jennis in their quarterback
that we don't know about yet and they end up
with with Sam Donald. But there's not a lot of
the only the the I guess the out of the
out of nowhere a team would be the Niners don't
want to pay brock Party and they'll pay Sam Darnald

(36:40):
instead a lower deal for Sam Donald.

Speaker 2 (36:44):
Wow, he was there before, right right, Yeah, he was
there like that?

Speaker 3 (36:48):
That would that would be the That would be the
only one I can think of, like out of nowhere
where they decide to move on right, I can't even
I'm trying to mumble. I don't know who else at
the moment I can see making making that making that
deal for Donald.

Speaker 2 (37:05):
Right, It's And that's the thing too, is I think
we just get conditioned to like seeing the top of
the line quarterback deals. And but still for Sam Darnald,
you gotta pay him a decent amount of money, even
though he took money away from himself those last two games,
You're still gonna have to pay him quite a bit

(37:25):
compared to I mean, just look at Caleb Williams, the
number one overall pick last year. The entire value of
his rookie deal. It's a four year deal for we'll
call it forty dollars. That's what you have to pay
Sam per year.

Speaker 3 (37:41):
Correct.

Speaker 2 (37:42):
So if you're you're a team, You're like, if we're
in line to draft one of these guys, do we
think Sam is that guy, like much better than cam Ward.
I'd rather go cheap with the possibility of cam Ward
being as good as Sam instead of paying Sam like
I have to pay Sam one year what I would
pay Cam the entire length of his rookie deal. I'm

(38:05):
team Cam instead of team Sam.

Speaker 3 (38:07):
And that Yes, yeah, you brought up with a young guy,
no doubt about it,