MB Talks To George Foreman On His 70th Birthday

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
So as I was telling you my boys are nine
and ten years old, Crockhead and Michael and I. In
preparation for us getting to talk, my wife said, well,
why don't we watch Better Late than Ever together and
they'll kind of get a sense of who he is.
And so I'm explaining, you know, that's the Fawns and
he was cool, and that's Terry Bradshaw and he was
a great quarterback, and that's William Shattner and that's Captain Kirk.

(00:23):
How would you expect someone would explain who George Foreman
is to a kid that was too young to know
the heavyweight champion. Ah.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
Boy, You take them to the kitchen and say, look,
we're going to take out this thing, and look that's
the name. George. Forman's great and we have one by
the way that shuts everything down. And if the grill
works properly, they'll say, now, tell me more about George
as they fix another grilled cheese or something. That's the
way to do it. Because my spotlight was taken off

(00:53):
of me once that grill became so successful, over one
hundred and twenty million of those things sold before I
sold the company, and people would meet me down the
street and the parents would say, that's the champ, that's
the cooking man. So I have to explain everything around
the grill.

Speaker 1 (01:09):
Now, why was that girl so successful?

Speaker 2 (01:11):
It worked? Now, I didn't want to go into the
infomercial business. I had nothing, no desire at all, because
I bought stuff from was surely gonna grow hair. I
bought things that were gonna make catch the absolute best fish.
Nothing work. So I didn't want to do that. But
I saw this grill put it to the family. I

(01:32):
didn't know it would be so successful. Then I wanted
to share it with the world. And that infomercial it did.
It told the story of George Forman and the grill
that works.

Speaker 1 (01:40):
So you said, take them to the kitchen, take out
their George former grill, make them a grill cheese sandwich,
and then I'll tell you who George Forman is.

Speaker 2 (01:47):
They'll ask questions about it. Fifth Ward Kid. Really, I
started right here in Houston, Texas, out of the Ward
the fifth Warts, and with no hope at all her
a commercial. Jimmy Brownson, if you're looking for a second
chance in life, joined the job Corp. I did. I

(02:07):
took his advice. That's George Forman, A guy looked like
I found someone's wallet on the street that wasn't any identification,
so I kept it and put my own identification in it.
But I said, a guy with a great break.

Speaker 1 (02:19):
So you did that. You did that at fifteen.

Speaker 2 (02:22):
Sixteen years old, I started joined the job Corps. It
was fifteen I made up my mind to do it.
But in sixteen I joined the job Corp. My life
turned around. And it is the American story, one of
the greatest American stories I've ever heard of, because I
read it over and over and said, really, really, as
though I'm a third party, a second party, I just

(02:43):
can't believe things can happen to a young man like that.

Speaker 1 (02:46):
So you didn't go to high school, much less college.
And I see all these stories of people who are
highly successful, and I know you don't want to encourage
somebody to take that track, But do you think in
some ways that drove you harder, like an insecurity or
a does, because you didn't do that.

Speaker 2 (03:02):
I listened at this is a funny story. I'm in
the ring fighting for the championship of the world. I'm
in Africa ZI fighting Mohammed a leave. We hadn't spoke,
We hadn't even done a press conference. You cannot find
a photograph of us ever together in Africa. We just
didn't do it. So we meet for the first time
in the ring and I'm staring him down as if
and someone that told him to tell me this. He said, George,

(03:25):
you don't need to be in here. You were just
a kid in high school when I beat Sunny Listening.
And I laughed going back to the ring because I
never spent an hour in high school.

Speaker 1 (03:38):
You got the wrong time listening.

Speaker 2 (03:41):
Yeah, Sunday Listing was my stablemate. I learned a lot
from him. But as you said, not to encourage or discourage,
encourage anyone to drop out of school. If you look
back at my life and say the worst thing I
ever did, one thing I've never recovered from is being
a high school dropout. Of course, I went back and
I got my ged, and there were times I was

(04:02):
about to go to college and this boxing took over.
I loved when someone make it through high school. I
realized that's something that I admire.

Speaker 1 (04:11):
January twenty sixth, nineteen sixty seven. Your first amateur fight
fifty one years ago. Who was the guy that walked
into that ring.

Speaker 2 (04:20):
Uh l. It was a really it was Ben Batton,
a guy who was in the job court with me.
I g I got got him into the ring, and
everybody say. I told the guy I wanted to be
a box on my trainer, you gonna easily win. I
got in the ring and I couldn't lay one hand
on him. He kept hitting me with something mysterious called
left jail boom and I try to pick him up,

(04:42):
I try to throw him out. I tried everything. They
laughed me out of the gym. I said I'll never
do this again. I lost, and but Doc brothers encouraged me,
don't give up. You could stop fighting in the street.
You can become a good fighter. But I thought this.
It wasn't for me. It didn't come that easy.

Speaker 1 (05:01):
Were you fighting in the streets?

Speaker 2 (05:02):
I was. I was a street fighter. As a matter
of fact. I took up boxing for the sole purpose
of coming back to Houston really winning fights without having
to hit anyone because they'd say he's a boxer and
they'd run. That's all I wanted boxing for to become
a better street fighter.

Speaker 1 (05:17):
In your autobiography, you say you were a troubled youth.
What were you troubled about?

Speaker 2 (05:21):
Well, there's a lot of things you can be trouble
with and you don't even know it. In hindsight, you know,
you look back and you sat. Man. My mom she
had to work scare me half to death to make
certain that I'd be alive when she got back home.
Never was enough to eat. Now. I talked about that
in church the other day. We moved into a house

(05:41):
and sometime that the electricity would be on for a
couple of days before they cut it off. And you
cut the light, boom boom, and you keep looking at
the light going on and off. Then all of a
sudden they cut the electricity off. That's as close as
I'd come to electricity in those days. That troubles you.
Because everyone else talked about a television. I can I

(06:03):
peeped through the windows and watch television, even peep through
the window and watch kids eat and leave food on
their plate. That troubles you?

Speaker 1 (06:09):
Does it still bother you? It bothers me only if
it came off the George Foreman grill.

Speaker 2 (06:15):
I was looking and I saw a company, a local,
well the national company, Arby's, and they said take this
and post it, repost it, and as many as repost
it will be able to get give kids a free lunch.
I don't even know anything about the company. I said,
free lunches for children. I automatically got into it and

(06:38):
it collected a lot of money for that dog. I
don't even know them, but it troubles me now that
a kid may go to be a hungry. Everyone should
at least have one sandwich.

Speaker 1 (06:48):
I agree. January twenty sixth, nineteen sixty seven. That first fight,
you told me the guy you fought. But if you
were watching as you are today, the young man who
you were, tell me about that young man. What was
going through your mind?

Speaker 2 (07:01):
Well, I was at that cross roads. I'd gone to
the to the job corps. As a matter of fact,
I was in the job Corps and the bullying guys around.
There was a boxing match on Muhammed a Leaf fighting you,
Casius Clayton fighting Floyd Patterson. The kids looked at me
and said, you're a big bully. You always picking on people.
Why don't you become a boxer? I said, okay, I'll

(07:21):
show you. That was the reason I was in the ring.
I was a big bully trying to prove that I
wasn't afraid to be a boxer that day. All I
was trying to do is show the world I wasn't afraid.
I'm not like that anymore. Why Because I'm not afraid.
The greatest fear that I have is that my life
will be a wash out. And I won't tell everybody
that you can do whatever you wanna do if you

(07:44):
put your mind to it.

Speaker 1 (07:45):
Nineteen sixty eight Olympics. What did that do for you?

Speaker 2 (07:50):
Couldn't believe it. I never had a dream to come true,
never had a dream to come true. I've heard about
people uh dreaming and waking up one one day they
could swim a boat or even have a horse. I
never had her dream to come true. I won that
Olympic gold medal. I'm in the on the platform. You

(08:10):
look around, and I heard her cousin tell me once
you're never gonna be anything. Go to sleep. Because I
was trying to cover up from her that I was
shooting hookie. She said, don't worry about it. You know nothing,
nobody in this family ever becomes anything. There was on
that platform and you could hear the national anthem in
the background. I said, I must have been an American wife?
Would that be? And I could hear her voice in

(08:31):
the back say, You're never gonna be anything. That was
the highlight of my whole athletic career to this day. Really,
I never had anything like that to happen to me,
and I've never gotten over it.

Speaker 1 (08:43):
There's a story, who's there's a story about you winning
that fight and running around the ring with a tiny
American flag? What did that flag mean to you?

Speaker 2 (08:53):
Strange place, the Olympic village. You wake up every day
and you see this guy. You walk right up to
one guy and you think could be related to me
in speaks another language. Then it doesn't take you but
a few days to realize the only thing that differentiates
you are the colors you wear. So after I won
that night, I wanted to make sure the world knew, Hey,

(09:13):
I'm from America. So I took up the flag for
good luck I had in my pocket, balled to the
judge we got you. Then I waved, I'm from America.
That's all I wanted to do, to make certain everyone
knew where I was from.

Speaker 1 (09:25):
Wow, And when you wanted them to know where you
were from, what did that country mean to you? In
nineteen sixty eight.

Speaker 2 (09:33):
Oh, and I could actually say, cause you you talk
a lot about it, uh of of what could happen
to you? Once I was uh put in a little
had a little problem in the job course center U
that made me dig a hole because I kept fighting
four feet wide four feet deep. It was the flag

(09:53):
pole and they said, p s, since you dug the hole,
you would be the first one to raise the flag.
I didn't even know what that meant. I raised the
fla that day and when it makes certain they didn't
hit the ground, boom. That was the end, the beginning
of the love affair with the flag. And so we
talked about America. But then and I won that thing.
America it's the place, the home where y no one

(10:17):
gives up on their under privilege. That's what it meant
to me. They truly said it. And I was the
under privilege. I had went going to bed without food.
Now here I was on the Olympic stand representing my country.
And they never give up here, this country, never give
up on this underprivileged.

Speaker 1 (10:36):
Take me back to you as a child, a young
a young boy. What's your fondest memory?

Speaker 2 (10:42):
Oh boy, and I talk about this all the time.
I had a mom. I used to have a Literally,
when I got in trouble, she spanked me. Well we
call it spanking now mm, it was something else in
those days. But one day I got in trouble. I said,
I'll I'll run her sh I took off shell. I said,
she'll never catch me to spank me. She caught up
with me, and I got so afraid. I rent up

(11:04):
a tree. I said, you'll never get me there she
shook the tree. She was so strong, she was faster
and stronger. That's the greatest memory I'll ever have, my
having a mother both strong and faster than.

Speaker 1 (11:17):
I was, and loving you enough to chase you down. It.

Speaker 2 (11:20):
Yeah, but I loved her. That love was no but uh,
that was the fun day. Can you imagine some of
the children are anyone who have a mother today? Who
can ride bicycles with 'em, turn flips, swim with 'em.
That's that's as good as it gets.

Speaker 1 (11:34):
I wanna talk in a minute about the church and
your your place in the church and the Church's place
in your life. But what was the role of the
church in your life as a child?

Speaker 2 (11:43):
No role at all. As a matter of fact, I
what I can remember is that, uh, my cous my
sisters would invite me, said, George, you need to come
to church with us. My mother wouldn't encourage to go
with your sisters. And I didn't wanna go cause I
went to play. And once they said they have food
after church, I said what yep? I said, how much food?
You can get a plate? I took off, I went

(12:07):
to the church. The church for me was a place
that in certain churches they didn't even give you a
plate afterwards of food. That's all it meant to me,
no more, no less. As I grew up, I thought
it was a shame that people really put themselves in church,
because what are you gonna get out of it? But
more poor? And even the songs were say as I

(12:27):
didn't want that. I didn't I wanted to be rich
and famous. Then even then I didn't care anything about religion.

Speaker 1 (12:34):
Food is a constant theme throughout your life, not having enough,
cooking it cleanly, eating well.

Speaker 2 (12:41):
And that's why the success of the George Forming grill,
because I could talk about food as well as the grill,
and so I was. I figured I was deprived of
a lot. I didn't have anything when I was young.
It made me ambitious to make certain I have a lot.

Speaker 1 (12:58):
How did you teach your children with regard to food,
because that's something I think every parent struggles with, the
clean your plate club.

Speaker 2 (13:05):
Those and I had that but eat and for good reasons,
because if I didn't finish your plate, I mean, but
give a get another plate. And so I spoke to
my kids a lot about that. But at the same time,
I wanted to explain to them that you know you
can overeat. You can go too far with food. I
wanted to let them know that they're not me. They're

(13:27):
not going through without I went through. They don't need
to even think like that anymore. So I had to
convert them from the old George Foeman spell you better eat,
you better hear up and eat you better eat it all.
I didn't want to do that because that's where food
can work against you.

Speaker 1 (13:42):
Surely you recognize that part of what made you who
you are is the privation the things you didn't have,
the things that you wanted. So how do you raise
your children when your financials changed, your financial condition and
you could provide them everything, How do you balance that?

Speaker 2 (13:59):
And I tell them I was at uh uh Oxford
University in in London the other day speaking and as
I finished speaking and I said, they were asking a question.
I said, the one thing that frightens me most is
that I wasn't able to give my kids my main,
my main ingredients. And they said what I said, hunger.

Speaker 1 (14:18):
Mm.

Speaker 2 (14:18):
I was hungry. I wanted it, and I'm I'm afraid
that some of them may have passed I I didn't
pass on the hunger from them, and that bothers me.
But they and in this world, you gotta find your own.
It was my way. I was hungry. You would you
were discriminated against y you were hungry. I said, that
was the crowning. I was crowned hungry. All those things

(14:42):
that happened to me made me something to want something.
I wanted to be on television my kids grew up. Oh,
I was on television a lot when I was a kid.
But I saw, uh, leave it to Beaver having his
own bedroom. I wanted those things like that. Hunger is
something that no one shoul should take for Granted, you
need a little bit of it, but you can't deprive

(15:04):
your kids just to prove it. They should have the
best schools, they should have the best education.

Speaker 1 (15:09):
You should and it's a joy to provide it to them.

Speaker 2 (15:12):
Yeah and uh, and you can't be afraid to provide
those things for your children. You got you just can't
let them. One life is enough, George former life, that's enough.

Speaker 1 (15:22):
Jim Forman a Jim Forman, Jim Brown was one of
your heroes. How did you decide that boxing was your
career and not running with the football.

Speaker 2 (15:30):
I wanted to be a football player more than anything
in the world. I went to the job corp with
the idea. They said, if you're looking for a second chance,
And I did play while I was there.

Speaker 1 (15:39):
What position?

Speaker 2 (15:40):
Uh, defensive tackler. I mean, boy, you couldn't stop me
when I started a few of them stopped me. But
I wanted to be a football player. I never even college.
Just looking at me. But I'd had one boxing match
before in one season, and as I was getting down
and spreading my fingers to attack, the coach said, get

(16:02):
those fingers in. You don't want to hurt those hands.
And they said, you're gonna be a good boxer. So
that was the end of football protecting My coach knew
that you were want to be He was also assistant
in the boxing. He said, put those fingers in.

Speaker 1 (16:20):
Your passion at the time was football.

Speaker 2 (16:22):
Yeah, And so they took me and just pushed me
into boxing, and I just well, I didn't want to.
I just wanted to be a street fighter, but that's
what it was. But it was all about football, all
about football. That Jim Brown. When I first saw that face,
I said, that's who I want to be. Had this mustache,
even start scraping my face so I could grow a mustache.
I wanted to be him. Sideburns.

Speaker 1 (16:43):
If you hadn't gone into boxing, and you hadn't played football,
what do you think at that moment? What would you
have wanted to do? What were the passions?

Speaker 2 (16:51):
All I can say is thank God for sports. Without sports,
I don't think I would have had a dream. I
don't think so Wow.

Speaker 1 (17:00):
So sixty eight you come back. You're a different George
Foreman than you went to the Olympic village. So walk
me through the next few years. Obviously the big fights
in your mind, what stands out well?

Speaker 2 (17:13):
One fight after another. In the Olympics, I was I
only had twenty five boxing matches, one a gold medal,
one twenty five and that's not enough experience to become
a pro. And I explained that to one of my
first managers, Dick Suthler. He said, we're gonna do exhibitions.
I never I just wanted to do exhibitions and keep
my fame with that gold medal. He decided to turn

(17:35):
pro and I said, I don't have a lot of fights,
but one fight after another he would school me and winning.
I said, I wanted to be a great boxer like Muhammad,
a lead with the footwork, but he would send me
out there for knockouts. I was like, man, people gonna
think I can box. He didn't care, and I realized
in hindsight, if I had gone for a decision in
some of these hometowns, they would have given it to

(17:57):
the other games. So he knew that I didn't that.
So I ended up with all those knockouts, and nobody
thought I could fight because so many knockouts, and that
contributed to Joe Fraser giving me a shot for the title.
All my whole life was dedicated over three and a
half years, to nothing but boxing. I couldn't I didn't date,
I didn't do anything. All I did was eat, think boxing.

Speaker 1 (18:22):
Have you ever had that level of commitment again.

Speaker 2 (18:25):
Uh focus, Yeah, I had that. That was some focus.
I don't think anyone should have. You gotta put family
in there. M like boxing, boxing, boxing. Nothing else occurred
to be important at that time. But then the second
time around, it was all about family.

Speaker 1 (18:41):
Three words, three times, Down goes Fraser. When you hear
Howard Cosell's voice and you hear those words, what does
what does that make you fir?

Speaker 2 (18:51):
When I look back and hit a film, down goes Fraser.
I can see where it was a shock to everyone else,
But is six thirty six fights. I'd been knocking everybody out.
That's all I did, was knocking people out. I was
afraid of Fraser, but I think that fear was assisted
me in getting that knockout. I was so afraid of

(19:12):
that guy, and a knockout then the heavyweight Championship of
the World, the impossible dream.

Speaker 1 (19:18):
Do you remember the moment when Fraser actually did go
down and you're standing there the last man. Do you
remember how you.

Speaker 2 (19:25):
Felt the first time he got knocked down. I remember thinking, boy,
he's gonna kill me. Now, boy, I messed up. Now
I knocked him down again. I said, WHOA No, and
after three times, I said, man, he'd get back to
the corner. He's gonna get refreshed. He's gonna kill me.
So I got I was afraid. I knocked him down

(19:45):
three more times. Then the roferee stepped in. I said,
it is possible, it's impossible. I did it. All you
could think is I did it?

Speaker 1 (19:56):
And then what?

Speaker 2 (19:57):
Then? All of a sudden, the world really changed because
cause I started believing I'm the best fighter I ever lived.
This this nobody can stand up to it. You wave
your hand in the air and you start living in
the air. You s started thinking too much of myself.

Speaker 1 (20:12):
Mm.

Speaker 2 (20:13):
But I was wealthy though I had some money.

Speaker 1 (20:16):
Was that the first time you really tasted the financial
success of all of what you your success?

Speaker 2 (20:21):
Well, you've become champion of the world. I remember going
down to the lobby the next day at a press
comfort and someone said, got a telephone, and it was
the great television man Bob Hope, who had all the shows.
He said, George, I said, there is This is Bob Hope.
I said, no way, said we wanna come. I want
you to do my show. And then he told me

(20:42):
how much he was gonna pay me. Said, what impossible?
Money started coming from everywhere. M you don't believe it,
then you spend it like you don't believe.

Speaker 1 (20:53):
Well, of course, what was the first ridiculous purchase you
made that you said you never would have made that before?

Speaker 2 (21:01):
Uh? About a Rose Ross Karnye, I.

Speaker 1 (21:03):
Was gonna say, did you buy a Cadillace? My god,
rolls Royce?

Speaker 2 (21:06):
Alright, I bought the Rose Ross. I already had the Cadillac. Okay,
I bought the Rose Ross uh or convertible and it
cost so much money in those days, nothing like it
costs now. But wow, I said, I never would have
done that beforehand. Mm.

Speaker 1 (21:20):
What became of that Rose Rosce?

Speaker 2 (21:22):
I kept it for a long time and finally, oh,
you know what, I told Don King, if he would
find me a certain thing, I would let him have
the Rose Royce. As years had gone by, and I
gave it to his wife.

Speaker 1 (21:35):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (21:35):
Yeah, they still have that Rose Royce. Can you believe that?

Speaker 1 (21:38):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (21:39):
Actually it's a They never got rid of that Henrietta.
Henrietta is long gone now, she's passed on, but she
was one of my best friends. Sh That family has
that Rose Royce.

Speaker 1 (21:49):
Wow, what's your relationship what was your relationship over the
years with Fraser on a personal level.

Speaker 2 (21:55):
One of the best friends I ever had, m Joe Fraser.
What you see is what you get. He was some
three or four different fellows. He treated everyone the same.
I loved Joe Frasier.

Speaker 1 (22:06):
Do you think maybe history was not as kind to
him as it could have been.

Speaker 2 (22:11):
Well, it's only history doesn't have to be that kind.
So long as our family and friends are kind to us,
we don't have to worry about anything else. You really
can't everyone in your place in history. Hey, it's one
of those things you don't even get concerned with that.
Make certain that you love your family, your children, your mother,

(22:33):
and your father. If you can do that and didn't
have a few grandkids to top it off, that's all
about all you need. And he had all of that andmore. So.

Speaker 1 (22:40):
I can quote you as saying Rolls Royce's will come
and go. But I'm not sure.

Speaker 2 (22:45):
Who will identify of that though. But really, if you
get a chance to have some family, and when you're sick,
they come and visit you, or they send you, call
you when you lose a world championship or something, that's
about all you can expect to get out of this
and then be kind to your fellow men, so you
can pass the baton onto the young ones to be

(23:06):
as kind as well.

Speaker 1 (23:08):
I asked one of your family members a series of
email questions, as you know, what's your father like on
a personal level, and one of the answers was that
you might get your head beat in on a Saturday night,
but you still the family still went to church on
Sunday and you were told, you know, you may not
can hug daddy quite as close because he's got two

(23:28):
black eyes and he hurts. That's not a story every
boxer goes through.

Speaker 2 (23:33):
And now only that you know what about these open
houlls is some of you. Sometimes after the boxing matches,
the kids have open house at high school and I
have to go with dog glasses on because I couldn't go.
As George Forman, I told him I'd be there to
listen to them sing, and I have to sit in
the audience, just like every other proud parent.

Speaker 1 (23:50):
But that's a unique story. I don't think every professional
athlete family has a father that is as attentive to
the family because the career comes first.

Speaker 2 (24:00):
But very few it had a championship career beforehand and
know the failure mm of being success without being close
to the family. I had that opportunity to know. Most
importantly is get close to your family, be there for them,
cause these things passed, They always passed, and you gotta

(24:20):
make certain that you your family's isn't more important.

Speaker 1 (24:24):
What was your emotion when Muhammad Ali passed.

Speaker 2 (24:27):
I haven't still haven't gotten over that, still haven't gotten
over that. That's been my friend, My gracious Remember I
told you as I'm in a job course center Cassius
class fighting Floyd Patterson and it's a big going on,
all the kids in the day room, and they look
at me. You think you're so tough. Why don't you
become a boxer? That man came into my life and

(24:49):
he's never left out. We became friends s. People misuse
that word all the time, but friends. He was part
of my life, you know. And I love that guy,
still love him.

Speaker 1 (25:00):
Larry Holmes.

Speaker 2 (25:01):
Larry Holmes a wonderful fellow, wonderful boxer, and I look
at him as that wonderful guy, wonderful boxer. Too bad
he had to be in the shadows of Mohammed as
far as talent now, not as a family man, because
his family loves him too.

Speaker 1 (25:15):
It was a really nice special on him. I think
it's a thirty for thirty. I don't know if you've
seen it, but it's him and his wife and he's
kind of going through and he talks about kind of
coming to peace with the fact that he was just
a little bit later than you guys, and that y'all
were the golden era, and he's comfortable now with his
place in all of that. There was talk at the

(25:35):
end of your career, after your last fight that you
and him you'd have kind of a birthday bash at
the Astrodome and it would be almost happened.

Speaker 2 (25:42):
What happened, It just didn't come. The promoters came halfway
and couldn't go the rest of the way. And I'm
still kind of a business guy.

Speaker 1 (25:49):
You wish that had happened.

Speaker 2 (25:51):
Not really, I didn't want to fight him, but it
was one of those things that I couldn't say no
to because of the business aspect. But I'm in hindsight,
I'm glad it didn't happen.

Speaker 1 (26:00):
Him. You said you didn't want to fight him, Did
you ever have w Well, I don't know. Because I'm
not a boxer. Is it fear apprehension? Was there ever
a moment you're going into a boxing match and you go,
I can hit hard, but that guy can hit hard too.

Speaker 2 (26:15):
And the one time I didn't have all of what
you said, all the above, I fought in mohammadal Lee
in Africa, all fear, all apprehension, butterfly nothing. I said this,
I like this, went into the fight and lost for
the first time because I didn't have my baggage of

(26:35):
fears with me. I think that, and I when I
made my comeback, I had to manufacture all those fears
again to make certain I'd be ready. I didn't. I
walked into the ring without fear. And that's the only
time you can lose.

Speaker 1 (26:49):
So in seventy seven you retire for the first time.

Speaker 2 (26:52):
Why I I had this experience in Puerto Rico where
I died. In a split second. After this vision, I
was alive again. I saw blood on my hand and forehead.
I started screaming, Jesus Christ is coming alive in me.
I didn't believe in those things. I'm telling you. I
didn't believe in it. There I was screaming in the
room kissing everybody in the room, telling them I loved 'em,

(27:14):
and reciting the Bible of all things. I left there
scared for ten years. Not only did I not box,
I didn't even make a fist start preaching on the
street corners anywhere that people would hear me about the life,
about God and the great love of Jesus Christ. I
didn't believe in those things. I try to talk myself
out of it. If you gotta hit you hard, uh

(27:36):
heat prostration. Couldn't even say the word whatever delusion. I
wanted it to be all those that But the smell
of death you'll never forget even talking to you is
still there. The smell of death is the worst thing
that could have I was dead and there was no
more of me, and I just said goodbye to everything.

(27:57):
And the saddest thing is is to leave this life.
What I was saying goodbye to my mother, I didn't
say goodbye. And I had a second chance to leave,
to tell everybody, cause you think it's gonna happen again,
And so I started. I didn't intend to be a
preacher either, But after awhile people say hey, Rev, Hey,
revend for mean, I was ordained in se I think

(28:20):
seventy eighty eight as an evangelist, cause I went into
prisons and hospitals. I didn't want this to happen, but
it took over me, and it's still in in place now.

Speaker 1 (28:30):
Ten years later, you're thirty eight years old. Why come back?

Speaker 2 (28:37):
Well, I call it this profound phenomenon occurred again. I
was broke. I looked up one day. I didn't have
any money. My walk my wife walked past me, pregnant.
I said, well you, I said what she said, I'm pregnant.
I said, don't you know I don't have any money.

(28:58):
She said, you better go get something. M I wish
I had been a golfer. I really, I said, the
only thing I know how to do is box, right,
and I had to go back to the gym at
three hundred and fifteen pounds and get myself ready to
fight again. People laughed at me, and I laughed along
with 'em. I didn't wanna be a boxer again, but
I brought up my My jab was still in place,

(29:20):
my right hand, and I hated it, but I had
to box. I realized God had given me a profession.
I had looked at boxing. It's this killer instinct. That's why.
That's the reason I quit. I loved everybody, but I
talked to kids at the George from a youth center
that never a punch in anger, Come on, do this,

(29:40):
And in return I learned myself. I became champ of
the world a second time. Never threw one punch in anger.

Speaker 1 (29:48):
And that's more.

Speaker 2 (29:50):
R Michael Moore.

Speaker 1 (29:51):
The tin shot in the in I guess tenth Rand
late in the fight. I know that they say the
scoring was you were behind. Did you know that? Did
you know you had to knock him out?

Speaker 2 (30:02):
Well, they say, but I you get into the boxing ring,
and uh I got ready to walk out of the
dress room and they only told me then they said
the three knockdown rules have been waved. And it broke
my heart because if I knocked him down three times,
they can still say if he gets up and run,

(30:22):
he can still go in and win the fight. And
uh So I went into the ring knowing that if
I get him down, he was gonna have to stay,
cause if I knock him down twice, he just run
and they'd say he won on points. And so I
got in the ring and I land some punches to
the side in the side in the stomach, and I
used my jab, kept my sight, and then finally about

(30:44):
the tenth round, things started to open up and I
land a good right hand, and only then I knew
I could really get him. Hit him with a second
right hand right on his chin and dropped him. He
was out. It was a miracle. If I tell you,
I knew it was gonna happ and I'd be lying,
but I knew I was putting the punches in the
right s place to make something like that happen.

Speaker 1 (31:07):
How was that fighter different than when you fought Fraser?

Speaker 2 (31:11):
Well, I had to this time. I had to you
be conservative and think. I didn't. I was frasier. I
didn't have to think. All I did was just throw power.
But then when I fought the great Muhammed Ali, I
realized I had to have power in thought. So I
had a second chance to have power in thought. That
made it different.

Speaker 1 (31:32):
You remember lou savaice so Lose a friend of mine,
and I called and talked to him about your boxing,
the technique of your boxing, and he said he fought
you and he thinks you were forty three at the.

Speaker 2 (31:42):
Time I was forty eight.

Speaker 1 (31:43):
You were forty eight with him. Okay, he thought you
were forty three. So he said, if you look at
George Foreman's career, his jab gets better with age. He said,
he had this jab, he said, but the thing about
him was he was so relaxed. He said, I've never
before or since, I've seen a boxer do what he did.
And he said that when he would spar with you,

(32:05):
you would bring guys in that have ten of them
and they just keep and they would run them in
for about a round.

Speaker 2 (32:10):
Him.

Speaker 1 (32:10):
He said, I've never He said, he was in his forties, Michael,
and he was having these guys, but he would stay
there and fight him. And he said he would fight
until his body was relaxed. And he said, I've never
seen a fighter so incredibly relaxed. How do you think
you achieved that? Was that conscious?

Speaker 2 (32:27):
Well? I knew that if you dedicate your life to
the conditioning that it took in boxing, whatever someone would
try to do to the ring due to you in
the ring, I would have already done to myself outside
the ring. And I realized, being prepared for the worst
can save me from the worst in the ring. And

(32:48):
I was prepared, so when they brought it on. I
was relaxed, like here it comes.

Speaker 1 (32:53):
It's funny to use your words, because that's what Luce
every said. He said you were a thinking man's fighter
at the end, because you fought with your head.

Speaker 2 (33:02):
And you have to think after a while, you just
no matter how tough you are, there's someone tougher.

Speaker 1 (33:10):
Everything I read about you is that George Foreman. The
personality sort of changed when you came back in eighty seven,
and by eighty nine people wanted your face on mufflers,
they wanted your face on everything. The early writings about you,
the two words they use are aloof and antisocial. I
think that's even on your Wikipedia page, aloof and antisocial.
And they say that that was you being like Sonny listened,

(33:32):
being a tough guy. But then you became this lovable George,
big George that everybody loved. Was that a conscious change
or were you maturing or were you happier?

Speaker 2 (33:43):
Yeah, Sunny Listening was my role model. I'd seen the
way he treated people, he acted, and I'd said this
is the way I'm going to do it. Just didn't
take the beachamp of the world. That's me, and I
was mean. I was definitely a bad guy. And I
tell people you saw the best of me in the ring.
I was verse outside the ring, but the second time
to be dead and rescued, no one else believed you.

(34:05):
Ah yeah, yeah yeah, But I was there to get
a second chance to live and hug your mom and
be with your children. Every morning you wake up and
you like, boy, I gotta got fun, have some fun, right,
and it changes you. Your You kN you you're not
putting on you love life, m And that's what happened
to me. I love life and the greatest part of

(34:25):
life people people, That's life. I love people.

Speaker 1 (34:31):
Long before the the grill, people wanted you attached to
their product because other people would buy a product if
your face was attached to it. Why do you think
that is?

Speaker 2 (34:43):
Uh? They trusted me, and I trusted them, and and
I'll tell my kids now, you may not be the toughest,
may not be the taller, the strongest person in the world,
but you can be the kindest human being alive. And
when you are, everybody I wanna be a part of it.
And that's what I was. I had become kind because

(35:05):
ten years out of boxing, I'd walk around I thought
you had to be famous and rich to get something,
and people would give me a seat on like a
steward flight of tender would say, hey, Bigger, you could
have this bigger seat. Say I can't give you the meal,
but you can have it. They didn't know who I
w I was. People would stop and give me a

(35:26):
boost in my car, and I'd try to pay them
get out of here, Bigger. I found out that people
were kind and I didn't need to be rich for
people to be kind to me. I had that opportunity.
Or then when I got to be champed, I returned
to favor s autographs. Whatever you want from me. I'm
just giving back to what cause they had given to me.

(35:47):
I ten years out of boxing. People were so kind
to me, gave me the best piece of meat. Let's
save that for the big guy.

Speaker 1 (35:54):
MM. When you look back on your life, if you
could talk to the young George Foreman that was in
the job corps, that was so the trouble you, that
was so angry, what would you say to him?

Speaker 2 (36:06):
Now, enjoy every second of it. Enjoy your life. Don't
go through one day of bitterness, one day of disappointment
or sadness, forget about it. You know why because this
is the best thing that ever had could happen to
a person life. Life. That's as good as it gets life.

Speaker 1 (36:29):
What single professional accomplishment are you most proud of?

Speaker 2 (36:34):
Professional accomplishment? I've done so many deals and oh boy,
and they all mounted up to something. But winning that
Olympic gold medal, it's it was an amateur, but that
nothing that's topped that.

Speaker 1 (36:51):
Really. Wow, that's fascinating.

Speaker 2 (36:54):
That Olympic gold medal. Man. I can't believe that happened.
I still kind of like it's this true. I may
wake up in the morning and say, oh, it's a dream.

Speaker 1 (37:03):
Right. Do you still watch the Olympics.

Speaker 2 (37:04):
I love the Olympics Now. I keep looking for that
moment and those kids stand on the platform and hear
that national anthem. It's happening to them all over again.

Speaker 1 (37:13):
Oh to see Simon bows from here and the other
Simon and the Lopez is the taekwondo fighters, It's it's
just thrilling to watch these young people and to realize
how that's projecting them and they're representing our country.

Speaker 2 (37:26):
They hear that song and then you don't pay any
attention cause it's just a song. And then you realize,
oh wow, this is it.

Speaker 3 (37:34):
It takes your strength for you and what you've done,
and it it takes a lot of strength just not
to just break down and just fall down and start crying. Right,
And that's the hardest part. If they just hold their piece.
I know how hard it is.

Speaker 1 (37:48):
I'm almost done. If you're tired, talk to me if
you would about your ministry.

Speaker 2 (37:53):
Oh, I've been a minister now. It's almost forty years
next March. Forty years I've been preaching.

Speaker 1 (38:00):
Can you believe we're talking about seventy eight It's hard
to believe that's forty years ago?

Speaker 2 (38:04):
Can you believe that? So I all those years. Uh,
it's the one thing that, uh, I'm attached to that
I can look back every year and grateful for it
has made a good better man of me. I've met
a lot of people I've introduced to this way of
life and it's made better people out of them. And
the ministry is the one thing that keeps me striving

(38:27):
and happy.

Speaker 1 (38:28):
Obviously, it's Christ's example that is the basis of our faith.
But is there someone in the Bible that you look
at his life and you see based on his growth
and you you identify with him a lot.

Speaker 2 (38:40):
Oh the Apostle Paul. The story goes that he was
I was. He was on this road, on the road,
going in one direction, he got knocked off right, knocked
to the ground, and went in another direction. That is
the most magnificent thing. I didn't I never knew that
exists in the bibel Bible until after seventy said, but

(39:00):
I didn't hear of those stories that didn't mean anything.
And I'm happy as when I read about uh his transformation.

Speaker 1 (39:07):
Well, and to imagine a man writing letters from prison
that are changing a life, I mean, that's it's a
pretty profound ministry.

Speaker 2 (39:14):
That's why it's good that all of us visit the
prisons and talk, because there are a lot of strong,
wilderned men where who's got a lot to say about
the future already in jail. They just for the time
being locked up.

Speaker 1 (39:27):
America's changed a lot since you were sixteen years old.
Do you think a young man today has the same
opportunities you do?

Speaker 2 (39:34):
You did? You know? There's two ways to look at America.
You can look at it as what you've heard and
look at it as what I lived. I never had
an unhappy day as far as America was concerned, in
my life, bod has always been a distinct taste of
chocolate ice cream and vanilla ice cream, and they didn't

(39:58):
even come on the scene. What uh coconut coconut ice cream?
I mean, now they got basking robbing with all those flavors.
They didn't exist back in the forties and fifties. But
ice cream was just as good without.

Speaker 1 (40:15):
My best ice cream in my whole life was when.

Speaker 2 (40:17):
Letty coconut, That's what I was trying to do.

Speaker 1 (40:19):
My Papall would make it and we would sit on
the crank, you know, you'd have to sit there and
wait on it to with the rock, salt and all that.
Nothing's ever been even Bluebell doesn't match up to that.

Speaker 2 (40:29):
Yeah. So when people say America changed to America, to
me has always been I thought one day I was
gonna get some money and I was talking with my
friends and I'm gonna go down and order a sandwich.
And one friend say, what kind of sandwich? Are you
gonna order? A syrup sandwich? That's all we thought about.

(40:50):
Syrup sandwich, Mayonnai's sandwich.

Speaker 1 (40:53):
That's what my mother tells me about. Man ain't sanwichies.

Speaker 2 (40:56):
The world to me has always been measured in the
taste the flavors. And now they use a lot of
spicies that we didn't know about. But I still look
at America as the most wonderful place on Earth. I
was born in it, and it was always the most
wonderful place. I walk down the street and we get
tar on our toes because of the they pull the

(41:18):
rocks and put the toys out there. Now I walk around,
I just look at the streets. I said, the kids
will not even experience tar on the roads anymore. So
for me, it's been a great country. It's been a
great journey. I met some of the most wonderful people
ever Lyndon Johnson, doc Brothers, my boxing coach. Oh, it's
been Jimmy Brown. Oh, and I wanted to walk like

(41:41):
John Wayne. I don't think anywhere in the world could
have an America like that. I mean, have any to
beat America than that.

Speaker 1 (41:47):
I'm told you're a big fan of Westerns and that
the one time the people in the in the house
have to be quiet is when you're watching gun smoke.

Speaker 2 (41:54):
Oh my favorite. Oh, don't bother with me with guns. Boys,
I keep finding myself a week after we watching the
same thing too. And I love gunsmoke too.

Speaker 1 (42:05):
Who is the person that's alive today that you have
not met that you would most like to meet, that
you just think they're neat you'd like to shake their hand.

Speaker 2 (42:14):
Wow, there are a lot of people. There are so
many people, and uh give me. I wanted to think
about that because there are some great people alive young too.
I think maybe that uh uh Manning, Uh, Peyton, Peyton Manning.

(42:37):
I've never met him, right, Eli Manning.

Speaker 1 (42:40):
He's retired though you're not retired, so he might not
understand your busy lifestyle.

Speaker 2 (42:44):
Yeah, I like to meet Peyton Manning's I've never met him.
He's what a great guy. Uh my gracious. There are
a couple of football coaches on the scene too that
I like. I met Shaquille O'Neal. Okay, boy was like wow,
he was trying to find me and I been trying
to meet him so big. Can you imagine a mother
having to carry around a big baby like that.

Speaker 1 (43:06):
But you know the thing about Shaquille O'Neal, kind of
like Karl Malone, I sensed the country in him, you know,
I sense that this is the guy that has country
values more sort of family, and I think that's why
he's lasted so long.

Speaker 2 (43:22):
Yeah, that's it. People can see that same thing, just
a big old, happy country boy. So when I thought
about that, I was going to say, Shaquille O'Neill. But
I met him already. But you want to go beyond athletes.

Speaker 1 (43:36):
I don't have to. Is there a singer that you
always liked that you've met or haven't met, that was
you just loved their stuff?

Speaker 2 (43:43):
Yeah, Diana Ross. I've never met Diane or Ross. I
never I've been in the same places and I know
it was possible, But Diana Ross, I'd like to meet her.
And now I surely want to meet that Beyonce from Houston.
I'd like to just get well, just pair some by people,
but I'd like to pick her up and say country

(44:03):
girl beyond say uh huh and that uh. So there
are so many people around, especially that Beyonce and Diana Ross.
I'd have to have a picture with them wherever. And
I've seen her perform whatever she's playing. I don't want
to say I never saw these great people. I went
out uh and saw ah Mike the Rolling Stones, Mic

(44:30):
Jagger and uh my kids. A while, I said, I
don't want my life to go and say I didn't
see them, because I saw James Brown and uh uh
you know the guy that was with the Beatles, and
Paul McCartney. He played at the I usued to keep
mind you.

Speaker 1 (44:46):
Like the guys that make it for decades, like you, Yeah,
they have to stay around for a while before you can.

Speaker 2 (44:50):
Then I can see what they have to say along
with their life as well. Because some of the guys
have passed through, I didn't see and I wish I
had seen so but I've met them all and I
even met Mick Jagger, so good stuff. Paul McCartney, I've
met all those guys, but got to meet Beyonce.

Speaker 1 (45:09):
When you look back on your life to this point,
on a personal level, what are you most proud of?

Speaker 2 (45:18):
On a personal level, Oh my children, Oh my children.
On personal level, I love my children and some of
the most outstanding people I've ever met. Not one of
them are the same. They're all different. That's got to
be the crazy.

Speaker 1 (45:34):
Even if they do all have the same name. I
try to give them as people to give me questions,
and they said, why does everybody have to be George,
and I said, everybody's not George, and they said they're
five George's What were you thinking that the point?

Speaker 2 (45:47):
I was not thinking. Now you have as much?

Speaker 1 (45:50):
Does your wife love you to let you do that?

Speaker 2 (45:53):
But I tell them now, you're Joe Frasier, Muhammad, Ali Ken,
Nordon Evander, Holy, those people hit you on the head.
How many names that you're gonna come up with?

Speaker 1 (46:05):
George the forth said he's big wheels and I said,
of course you are, because if you're the fourth you
gotta be something.

Speaker 2 (46:09):
You gotta be something. But I love those kids and
they are so different. I have ten kids, five daughters
as well. No one is the same. I still can't
handle that because I thought I don't have a bunch
of babies. They're not babies either, bunch of individuals.

Speaker 1 (46:26):
All right, I'm gonna end where I started, better than better,
late than ever. When they give you the call, did
you ever expect that at this point in your career
you'd be on prime time network TV with those guys.

Speaker 2 (46:38):
I say, after that Olympic gold medal, nothing surprises me.
That was the first time I had a dream to
come true. And then you start thinking what's next. And
I still feel like that Olympic gold medal will take
you places well.

Speaker 1 (46:54):
I have to say, on a personal level, I've watched you.
I was born in nineteen seventy and I watched you.
I came to Houston in nineteen eighty nine. I have
watched you. I've watched I've gone back and watched every
film on YouTube of you fighting that's up. Not every
fight's up, but everyone that is. I've followed you publicly.
I've watched you on TV. I've seen your interactions. I've

(47:14):
seen how you mentor people. I've even been to your
church with Michael Harris to hear you preach. I see
the success. Your son in law is a friend of mine,
and I see the young man that he is. And
I have to say, you are truly, which is why
I wanted to spend some time with you. You are
a role model, and you are the American dream come true.
You always conduct yourself like a gentleman and I really

(47:37):
appreciate that.

Speaker 2 (47:37):
Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (47:38):
My pleasure to get spend some time with you