February 23, 2025 • 35 mins
Dean goes to the phone lines and answers questions surrounding your home. Dean and Chris Carson talk about the cost of different types of concrete and fire-resistant coding and their textures. Dean talks about concreate masonry, real concreate and the biggest failure with concrete. Dean dives into steel, reinforcement, cracks' and how to fix the issue .
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
KFI AM six forty. You're listening to Dean Sharp The
House Whisper on demand on the iHeart Radio app. Good
Sunday morning to you, my friend. Thanks for joining us
on the show. Welcome to the second hour of our
fine little program. Here. Follow us on social media. We
(00:20):
only do to good kind of social media, uplifting, informative,
inspiring social media. We're on all the usual suspects, Instagram, TikTok, fakes, Facebook,
x home with Dean, same handle for them all. If
your home is in need of some personal house Whisper attention.
If you sit here listening to the show week after
week and you think to yourself, this is fantastic, But
(00:42):
you know what I could really use. You know, babe,
what we could really use Dean and Tina sitting in
our family room staring at this mess, telling us what
it is. What's the game changing idea that's going to
make it all work? Right? Well, that can happen too,
It actually can. All you have to do is reach
out to us. We can do an in home design
(01:04):
consult with you. Just go to house Whisperer dot design,
house Whisperer dot Design. All right, I told you they
were around and you didn't hear from Tina earlier today,
but you know Tina's around and about, and so you
got to say hi to everybody.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
This morning, Hello and welcome home.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
There you go, and also there it is. There's her
spirit animal following right behind her. And also literally following
right behind her is Olivia. Olivia Ray Sharp, eight years old,
out of control. You want to say hi to everybody.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Hi.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
I also got to pettit chicken today.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Oh she also got to pettit kicking pot and the
crowd goes wild. All right, thank you? Oh I love
that kid. All right, if you haven't been listening thus far,
if you've just joined us, we're talking concrete today with
my very special in studio guests Chris Carson. Chris, are
(02:10):
you in any way related to Kit Carson?
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Possibly back in the history archives, but not to my knowledge?
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Okay, all right. I was just checking because I'm reading
a book on him right now, and so it was
just in my mind. I'm like, wait a second, I
have to ask that question.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
I mean we're all relayed to everybody at some point, right,
but nothing direct that you're aware?
Speaker 3 (02:30):
All right?
Speaker 1 (02:30):
All right, okay, very famous frontier concrete man, Kit Carson. No,
not at all. All right, anyway, we're talking concrete. But
it's top of the hour, so guess what time to
go to the phones, and so let's get a couple
of calls in, shall we?
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Is it is it? Shoe?
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Is it?
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Shoe?
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Shoe?
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Welcome me? Q Oh you okay?
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (03:02):
All right, Hey, Hugh, how's it going?
Speaker 3 (03:05):
Good? Good morning? Good morning, yeah going? Well, thanks, Yeah,
I just had a quick question for you. I'm actually
from Eagle Rock myself personally, Oh my goodness, grew up
going to schol Canyon as a kid. That was a
treat to go up to Shoal Canyon.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
You were just you were so close, so close to
me at that point because I was living back in
the canyon there literally. Well, yeah, it's yeah, So anyway,
all right, Oh.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Going to the dump was a treat of a kid.
But anyhow, Yeah, I work in home improvements. I've been
doing it for quite a few years, and one of
our staples that we install is text coat. I'm sure
you're familiar with it, and I just want to get
kind of your feedback on it, see what you your
thought on it was, and see if it's really kind
of worth it in the long run, as opposed to
like say, Benjamin More exterior paints.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
You know what I mean. I don't have a I
don't have an issue with text your coat as long
as it's here. Well, here's my thing. I have seen
so many text coats, and by textco you want, Hugh,
go ahead and explain very quickly your understanding of text
cooat so everybody knows we're all on the same page.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Okay. So textcoat is a is a name brand of
a type of paint that's been that was created back
in nineteen sixty three as a long term solution to
exterior paints, you know, kind of replaced lead paint and
exterior lead oil paints, excuse me. And it's water based
and it's non toxic, and it's got a lot of
(04:38):
properties in it, like fire resistance. It's got to perlite
and all kinds of good things in it to make
it long lasting. It uses titanium as a base, and
it's just very expensive and I just want to see
it if you know, you agree with you know, my boss,
that is it's well worth it and people should be
(04:58):
buying it, you know.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Okay, all right, So and that's a great description of textcoat.
Here's the thing from two different perspectives, one from the
builder side of me. So let me wake up the builder.
It's a Sunday morning. He's asleep, so I'll wake him
up to comment on this. The builder side of me,
(05:21):
I have no issues with textcoat as long as the
prep work is done properly. And that's really what it
comes down to all painting, all forms of exterior paint
in all painting in general, is it's much like what
Chris and I have been talking about this morning, like
(05:42):
concrete prep, the prep before the poor is. You know,
it is ninety plus percent of the job in so
many ways, having everything right. And so the issues that
I've had in the past as a builder with text
coat is not the material itself. It's with the fact
that it's been slapped on very uh fast and furious
(06:07):
by some home improvement contractor who has not taken the
time and put in the effort to prep the surface well,
prime the surface well so that we get a good bond.
Because text coat is a very very thick milled material
to put on the outside of any structure, and it
has that rubberized latex quality to it, which is one
(06:30):
of its advantages, you know, bridges cracks some and that
kind of stuff. But because so thick, if it doesn't,
if it isn't clinging incredibly well, then any amount of
moisture inside the stucco or that gets behind it will
push it off and will push it off, and once
it comes off, if it's not holding well, it starts
(06:51):
coming off in sheets. So that's not the fault of
the texture coat itself. That is the fault of a
rushed application. So my honest opinion, Hugh, Yeah, from the
contractor point of view is that I have no issue
with the product per se. I think it's a quality
(07:11):
product that works well for some homes in some situations, uh,
and could work well you know, in a lot of
different ways. My issue is that a lot of text
coat contractors are are kind of you know, blow and
(07:32):
go contractors who come in and just like voom, boom, bump,
and they don't take the time to prep the surface well,
and then we end up inheriting those problems down the road.
So that is that's my contractor perspective. It's a it's
a solid material, it has its uses, it's got a
lot of benefits to it, but you've got to find
(07:54):
a contractor who's going to do it well. Number one.
On the design side of things, the designer in me
UH only has two issues UH to discuss text coat.
One is, as a designer, its texture is not always
the texture I want, and so it unless you know,
(08:15):
like everything else, everything has its application, and nothing should
be applied universally everywhere, right because it has its own look,
it has its own vibe, and if it fits with
what we're doing, we're all for it. And if it doesn't,
then I want to go elsewhere. Okay, I want I
want to address things with a different product. And secondly, real.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Quick before before you get there is picture, there is
texture text coat, but then there's also like flat, so
it will just it'll just take on the look of
anything that is being painted.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
So so yeah, what's there understood understood? It's just not
It's just not something that I sell as a universal
coding for every thing, because there's always a time where
there's you know, it's a time to use something else.
But as a whole, I have no issue with the
with the quality of the product. But again, a well
(09:14):
adhered exterior paint of good quality can last a heck
of a long time. There are other fire resistant coatings
that can go on the outside of a house. So
it's a toolbox. So for me, you know, I it's
a toolbox. One of the things as a designer that
I usually struggle with is when I find textured, heavily
(09:35):
textured text coat that's been run up a stucco wall
and then across a sofet or an eve out to
the facier board. It all cringey about that, and it's
usually it also from the builder side of things that
becomes a weak point. So anyway, Hugh, a great question,
(09:56):
Thanks for throwing it out there, and yeah, that's my opinion.
I even went long into the break to explain that.
So super appreciate the call, my friend. Yeah, as long
as your company is one that is installing it with
integrity and all of the prep work necessary, you know,
have at it, my friend, because it has its uses,
(10:18):
absolutely for sure. All right, y'all, when we come back
more of your calls.
Speaker 4 (10:24):
You're listening to Home with Dean Sharp on demand from
KFI AM six forty.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
We're talking concrete today with my special in studio guests
Chris Carson. But right now we are taking calls. I
want to go back to the phones. Let's see here
bumping a bump, bump, bum, Let's talk to Jim. Hey, Jim,
welcome home.
Speaker 5 (10:53):
Hey you guys, how's it go this morning?
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Doing great? How can we help you?
Speaker 3 (10:57):
Hey? I have a question for mister Cromson on two questions.
Speaker 5 (11:01):
One of them is, I hear the word concrete mason,
and you're kind of toss around together, and I'm not
sure what the difference is. And the second question is
what are the top two reasons for concrete failure?
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Okay? All right? And your your your connection is a
little wonky. I can hear you. You're just kind of
you're warbling a little bit so, but I'm just going
to repeat that. So two questions, Chris. One, he hears
the word the terms concrete and masonry thrown in together.
What's the difference between the two, And then what are
the two top reasons for concrete failure?
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Okay? Yes, difference between concrete and masonry pretty simple. Concrete
is concrete flour, driveways, patios. It's a different product. Masonry
is it's all called hardscape. But masonry is more in
the form of units, whether it's block brick pavers. You're
(11:56):
building a barbecue or a fire pit, doing a brick planter.
That's masonry work. Okay, so it all includes concrete. Yeah,
there's footings to build the masonry, so it's all concrete is.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
The mortar that's going in between the masonry. So I
think that's a really great way of putting it, is
that masonry is that what we're building, is we're building
it out of units, and concrete is pouring in as
a as a solid mass essentially, and.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
They all go hand in hand. So you kind of
want a contractor that's experiencing, you know, both masonry and
concrete because they have everything to do with each other,
one and the same. Almost. Yeahs oars back to failures.
It's it could be you know, it's hard to say
(12:45):
number one, number two reasons for failure. It just starts
from the early onset of grading, preppering, prepping. What am
I pouring over? Is it clay? Is an expansive soil?
Is this thing going to heave on me?
Speaker 3 (12:59):
Orse?
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Think? So the preparation is obviously key and just to skip,
you know, kind of a to the end here, you
have your base material compacted sand or based material. You
have your rebar, you need a good quality concrete. I
like to pour from trucks. You can get these companies
that have a car decrete or you can mix up
(13:20):
my hand. Most likely it's not uh, it's not gonna
have the p S I and the quality that you're
gonna need from a ready mixed company. So and then back,
you know, back to the real failures. You know, it
could just could be as simple as overwetting the concrete,
pouring later in the day when it's too hot, not
(13:43):
having enough people to control the finishing, and the proper technique.
I always like to pour in the morning. First thing.
It gives us plenty of time to work with things.
The trucks are on time more than a timely manner.
You are to concrete. Second round, say ten eleven o'clock.
Sometimes the truck won't get to the job to one o'clock.
(14:04):
So and then then the lastly, just we talked about
control giants and the expansion joints, the lines that you
put in the concrete. They might look decorative, but they're
there for reason. And that's probably the number one thing
in keeping your concrete from failing. And those need to
be within an eight to six foot square grid square
(14:24):
forty fives. Whatever you want to do, you need to
get these lines in there.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
I'm going to jump in here because you and I
are going to talk about this next segment, you know,
kind of in depth. So keep listening Jim as we
talk about that. But I think I think essentially let
me let me add in here. When we talk about
concrete failure, I mean, they're really kind of are only
two kinds of concrete failure. One is a structural fail
(14:50):
and that's really bad, and two is an esthetic fail.
And so I would draw a differential between those two.
A structural fail is a disaster for a project because
you know you've got structural concrete under your home?
Speaker 5 (15:06):
Do it?
Speaker 1 (15:06):
You know in retaining walls? Do you know it's there
to do a very very specific job. And I'm not
too implying that there isn't there are non structural concrete
because you know there's a structure to a driveway. But
and a lot of homeowners aren't aware of this. You know,
when it comes to flatwork around your house, you don't
even have to pull a permit for flat work around
(15:28):
your house. It is not considered essensial structural support because
it's just people are walking on it, vehicles are driving
on it, and so you can just have that all
designed and poured without a permit. The city is not
involved in that. But anything that where concrete is a
foundation for something else where it's holding up the walls
(15:50):
of your home or holding back a large amount of
soil that is you know that otherwise would find its
way into your yard. Those are very very specific engineered
structural applications, and so if concrete fails in that way,
we are in serious trouble. Most homeowners consider structural concrete
(16:12):
failure when they come out and they look at their
garage slab, or they look at their driveway or their
patio and there are cracks or uplift or things happening
in places that they just don't want it to have happen.
I mean, they don't have to move out because of that,
but they hate the way it looks and so as
(16:33):
a result, So that's, by the way, Jim, what we're
going to be talking about next, not so much the
deep chemistry of getting all the structural stuff right, but
when it comes to decorative esthetic finish on concrete, the
need for crack controlled joints, and Chris is going to
give us some seriously, seriously good advice about that, not
(16:56):
only how often they should be, but where they should
be and and what direction they should be running, and
do they need to be wide or do they need
to be deep or both? All of that we will
cover right after.
Speaker 4 (17:09):
You're listening to Home with Dean Sharp on demand from
KFI Am sixty.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
We're talking concrete this morning with my very special in
studio guest Chris Carson, Concrete and Mason Contractor. Extraordinary and
just such a great time with him this morning. I
want to get back into it, Chris, So all right,
let me throw out just at first, because I don't
(17:37):
care how long it takes for us to talk about this.
I want to make sure that people are really learning
some things this morning. Let me throw out four little
facts for y'all right now about concrete, and then we're
going to talk about the fourth one ad exhaustion. At
exhaustion now a number one concrete. You got to know
(17:59):
this concrete doesn't dry. We talk about concrete drawing. It
doesn't dry. Concrete doesn't dry. It cures. Okay. Curing is
a is a chemistry. Thing. It means that something is
undergoing a process of stabilizing under the influence of a compound.
And so, just so you know, the part of the
prep and the planning of a concrete poor, a proper
(18:22):
concrete pore is that you're designing the mix. You heard
Chris use that term mix design. You're designing the mix
for a specific structural or application. You're designing the mix
based on the weather of the day, the heat of
the day, the cool of the day, the amount of
humidity that's in or lack thereof. You're designing the poor
(18:47):
to basically maximize the retention of the moisture that comes
in the mix. We don't want to pour when it's
raining because we're adding additional water to the whole problem,
and you can't finish concrete in the rain that way.
And we don't want to pour when it's one hundred
and eighty degrees outside because we're losing water out of
(19:10):
the mix so fast that it doesn't cure properly and
we end up with a weak finish. Even though the
concrete dries and it's hard, but it is lost a
lot of its strength. The water that's in the mix
needs to stay in there for as long as as
possible to do its job and activate all of the
cement molecules so that they come to full adhesion. Because
(19:34):
it's a curing process, it's also, by the way, a
thermogenic process, which means if you've ever had the opportunity
to walk up and put your hand on the belly
of a concrete truck, when it shows up a cement truck,
you'll find that it's warm. It's warm in there. As
concrete cures, it lets off heat. There's a whole thing
(19:55):
that's going on there, and so the timing of those trucks.
Concrete can't stand there forever, and the longer it mixes,
the warmer it gets. And you know, there's an expiration
date on a on a cement truck, which is why
Chris earlier in the show was saying, Hey, I like
to do Poor's first thing in the morning, because because
ordering the trucks as they come from the cement factory,
(20:19):
they are more reliable timing wise, cause if you're the first,
if you're the first job, and you should talk to
your concrete people and your contractor about that. Can we
make sure that we're the first job for an early
morning poor, you've got more control of your environment, more
control of the heat of the day, and more control
of the reliability of the trucks showing up, because if
something goes wrong on a first poor and things get delayed,
(20:42):
that's why the people who are waiting for a midday
poor sometimes their trucks end up coming late later than expected,
and so that's a whole thing. Another thing is to
understand that without special attention to specialized ad mixtures, concrete
is not waterproof. Concrete is, in its most rudimentary nature
(21:05):
is as a cure is it squeezes that water out
and leaves behind empty voids and capillaries. Concrete is a
giant stone sponge in essence, and so if there are
moisture issues, there have to be vapor barriers involved and
all sorts of things like that. So you just need
to understand that about concrete. And now to get to
the point that we're going to talk about in the
(21:27):
next segment. And I'm just setting it up here, and
we went a little long last segment, so I'm gonna
cut it short here so we can get back on schedule.
But everything you've heard me say this before, hopefully and
if you're new to the show, then lucky you. I'm
gonna say it again. Everything in life is strong in
some ways, but not in all ways. Okay, that's just
(21:49):
a life principle, and it's definitely a principle in physics
and in mechanics and in chemistry. Concrete is strong in
one particular way. It, like stone, has incredible capacity for
what we call compressive strength. Okay, try taking a one
(22:09):
foot by one foot cube of concrete and putting unbelievable
even force on it from all sides. You won't move
it an inch. Try crushing it just with even force.
Or you take a one foot by one foot cube
of concrete you could park on. You put park an
aircraft carrier on top of it, if you've got it
(22:30):
set up the right way. I'm exaggerating obviously, but the
point is concrete is incredibly strong compressively. But concrete, like
most stone, is brittle. Meaning I could take that thing,
that cube that I just put unbelievable amounts of pressure on,
(22:50):
and uh, I could take a hammer, just a hammer
and hit the corner of it and crack the corner
right off, boom off it comes. Because concrete is brittle. Now,
the opposite of concrete would be a material like steel,
which has incredible what we call tensile strength. You can
put a lot of pressure on steel. You can bend
it and arc it and tie it in a bow,
(23:14):
and guess what, it didn't break. It flexed and we
could pull it and it doesn't snap. It has incredible
tensile strength. But you know, we could put a lot
of pressure on that little rod of steel and smash
it flat. Not so much compressive strength. So guess what
when you combine something that has tensile strength and you
(23:35):
put it right in the middle of a concrete pour
something that has great compressive strength but no tensile strength, Well,
it's reinforced concrete. Concrete and steel mashed together. That helps
the cement and the concrete have a little bit of both,
(23:56):
more of both, right, And that is why we add
re bar, which is short for reinforcement bar. That's why
we add steel to every good concrete poor in various ways.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
More the more.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
Structural capacity the concrete has to have, the more elaborate
and larger the steel is, and so on and so forth,
all the way down to sidewalks that you know you
could use welded wire mesh that's still a steel component.
The point is this concrete is going to crack. It's
going to crack, it's going to settle, it's going to
find its way to crack. How do we control those
(24:32):
cracks and where we use crack controlled joints? And so
when we come back from the break, UH, Chris is
going to give us an entire masterclass lesson on what
to be looking for, what to demand, and uh, what's
right and wrong about some crack control joints because ultimately,
you know, we can talk all the practical, you know,
(24:53):
the the the ethereal science of it all. At the
end of the day, we're talking about stuff in your home,
the hardscape that's outside your home. And if you're thinking
about doing an addition and or maybe a new build,
how do we handle a large amount of concrete that
we don't want to put crack control joints in. We'll
(25:15):
talk about post tension concrete as well. But when we
come back, don't go anywhere. We're going to tell you
how to build your next concrete project without ugly cracks.
Stay with me.
Speaker 4 (25:29):
You're listening to Home with Dean Sharp on Demand from
KFI Am sixty.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
I hope you're enjoying your Sunday morning. We certainly are.
I'm sitting here in studio with doing one of my
favorite things, and that is talking shop with another expert
in the field of home building, Chris Carson, concrete and
masonry expert, and just so so so much experience, so
(26:00):
much expertise. So Chris, I'm going to dive back in.
There's slabs, that in structural stuff that we do for homes,
and I want to address that. We're going to get
to talking about like post tension work versus traditional rebar
and pros and cons and things to be aware of there.
(26:21):
But let's just talk about the kind of concrete that
probably most of our listeners right now are thinking about.
Which is the new patio or the new driveway or
a little sidewalk or backyard paths or what we're going
to you and I refer to as decorative finish, you know,
esthetic concrete work. And the enemy there, well, obviously I
mean concrete. If you've got any concrete guy who knows
(26:44):
anything about what he's doing, you're not going to worry
about structural fails there per se. But the enemy there
really comes down to two things. It comes down to
cracks and then just just the finish that you've picked
and how reliable that finish ends up overall. But let's
talk cracks right now, Just cracks. Nobody wants cracks in
(27:07):
their concrete work, but you're gonna get them, aren't you.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
You are.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
Concrete's going to settle down against the ground, and even
if there's no settling, the ground moves. It moves not
just because of earthquakes, but it moves because when it
gets wet, some ground swells a little bit microscopically minutia,
but it's enough. If it's pushing against a brittle object,
which is what the cement is, it's going to crack.
(27:33):
So we got to tell the cracks where to go.
And that's the point of a crack control joint. Now,
I asked you earlier in the show what's your preferred distance,
and you said six feet. You don't like to get
it beyond six feet. But there's more detailed than just that.
It's the direction of those control joints, and now the
question of do they need to be wide, do they
(27:55):
need to be deep? Do they need to be both?
Speaker 2 (27:57):
So talk to us about that Yeah, normally you're gonna
want to put in a grid. There's a forty five
degree grid. A square grid is more common and more practical,
makes more sense with the way concrete reacts when it
does crack.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Okay, so let's explain that. So I get asked to
put in forty five degree diamond patterns all the time,
and they're lovely. They're lovely, and in some situations you
might find that we're going in the right direction with
the concrete. But let's say we've got a maybe a well,
let's just say a garden path in the backyard four
feet wide and it's running out twenty some feet. Okay,
(28:37):
so it's a long, thin thing, and I want to
put a I'm going to put a lot of crack
control joints. I'm gonna score it every two feet, but
it's going to be on a forty five Is that
going to solve my problem?
Speaker 3 (28:48):
No?
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Oh, the concrete wants to go across the narrowest point.
There's different things corners. You can just look at what
you're setting up on a side yard and you can
work out a score mark pattern off the house and walls,
air conditioning pads, things like that. The square is going
(29:11):
to give you more protection if you have a long
walk or drive weights in the forty five's, those cracks
are not going to want to travel that forty five
degree angle in a distance and protect the rest of
the concrete. He wants to just ignore those joints and
go straight across to the narrowest point. And it's just
going to do its thin because concrete's brittle. So the
forty five degrees not my favorite choice. It does work
(29:35):
as long as you can get the joints in there
that properly will work. But my you know, my desire
would the safest bet would be to go into a
square grid.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
So this is where now, as a designer and a builder,
this is where where my disciplines mesh together. Because you know,
in a in a an imperfect world where there are
no laws of physics, designers can design anything they want, uh.
But in the real world there are limitations to what
(30:10):
should be designed in a in an instance because of
how you know the materials are going to react. And
so if I don't want my client to end up
with cracks, sometimes I have to break the bad news. Listen, No,
we shouldn't put that we shouldn't put the score joints
in that direction because they're not gonna help. We're gonna
get a crack right across the surface of that diamond anyway.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
If we've got a like a large patio pore and
it sort of swoops out into a little, a little
hour glass passageway to another one, think of like an
hour like two larger bits of concrete mass with a
smaller kind of neck or a waist in between it.
Where you walk through. Where's that where's that crack going
(30:52):
to show up?
Speaker 2 (30:53):
I'm gonna put money right in the middle at the
narrows point.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
You're gonna bet some good money right there at that
tiny little hour glass waste because you've got these two
large masses and the tension is looking for the weakest point,
isn't it.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
I'm going to come back tomorrow and I'm gonna see
the crack. It usually happens right away too. But that's
a no brainer right there.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Now. So these joints do they need to be wide?
What's the secret.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
With on the joints? To me, just collect dust and
leaves and dirt. Really, a nice professional job would be
a very tight and we have all kinds of different
groovers with different wits and depths. But the width is
not necessary. It's the depth, and you'd be surprised at
how little it takes. You could almost take a fingernail
(31:45):
or a pencil and draw a line across a walkway
and for some reason it wants to go there. It's
so that's why we put the control joints and I
like real tight ones on the top. And the depth
is not that important. It's just the fact that you're
getting it in there and the concrete reacts to that.
(32:05):
It doesn't have to be two three inches deep. I mean,
you have the rebars so you can't go too deep.
But it's amazing how little it could be. Sometimes you
just see something that could be an eighth inch thick
that we call dummy joints and no crack right there.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
So the depth, the deeper that joint, the more it
is essentially attracting the tension weakness of the area over
to it. But the width, so the old traditional like sidewalk,
you know, it rolls in. It's big, old wide, and
people assume, well, that's what I've got to have all
over my stuff, and that you're saying that's not the case.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
And if you want to get real fancy it keeps going.
You could put in a very thin joint and if
you really want a high end result, get a quick
you saw a diamond blade and go in and open
up those joints and cut them down an inch or
an inch and a half. That's insurance.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Have you ever just done no joints and then come
in the day after and cut the joints in or
you but you have ways of scoring them during the poor.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
Very commonly done. They make special saws that you can
put on the concrete the same day and saw cut
those joints in. It's more of a commercial application. A
few problems with that is the blades do tend to
chip out the aggregant on the on the cuts, and
also you're allowing time for that concrete to react and
(33:32):
crack usually happens very quick. A lot of people will
pour big jobs and put their finishing machines on there,
not having to worry about snapping lines and cutting in
joints to you know, eliminate finishers and make the job
an easier job to do, and then just come back
and saw cut it. A lot of people won't saw
cut it the next day, Well, the next day a
(33:54):
lot of times is too late. Concrete likes to relieve
itself pretty much immediately.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
Okay, all right, all right, So when we come back,
we're going to take a little break from the aesthetics
and we're going to talk about slabs, house foundation slabs.
The traditional slab is done with rebar rebar at eighteen
inches on center twenty four inches on center. However, the
(34:21):
structural engineer has kalked out the strength of the slab.
There are some conveniences when you're remodeling if you've got
a traditional slab. But you and I were talking during
the break. If we want a large surface that is
perfectly smooth and has no crack control joints, and we
want to minimize or altogether eliminate cracking in that situation,
(34:44):
then post tension is just a revolutionary way of doing this.
It's been around since the applied to home since the
eighties or so, and a lot of people are sitting
on post tension slabs right now and they don't realize it,
and so we need to talk about that and also
let homeowners know that if you live in a house
(35:05):
that was built in the eighties, or newer. Before you
go cutting into that thing for your next remodel, you
better know whether or not it's a traditional or a
post tention slab. We'll talk about that right after we
have the news. You're listening to Dean Sharp the House
Whisper on KFI. This has been Home with Dean Sharp
(35:25):
the House Whisper. Tune into the live broadcast on KFI
AM six forty every Saturday morning from six to eight
Pacific time, and every Sunday morning from nine to noon
Pacific time, or anytime on demand on the iHeart Radio
app
KFI AM six forty. You're listening to Dean Sharp The
House Whisper on demand on the iHeart Radio app. Good
Sunday morning to you, my friend. Thanks for joining us
on the show. Welcome to the second hour of our
fine little program. Here. Follow us on social media. We
(00:20):
only do to good kind of social media, uplifting, informative,
inspiring social media. We're on all the usual suspects, Instagram, TikTok, fakes, Facebook,
x home with Dean, same handle for them all. If
your home is in need of some personal house Whisper attention.
If you sit here listening to the show week after
week and you think to yourself, this is fantastic, But
(00:42):
you know what I could really use. You know, babe,
what we could really use Dean and Tina sitting in
our family room staring at this mess, telling us what
it is. What's the game changing idea that's going to
make it all work? Right? Well, that can happen too,
It actually can. All you have to do is reach
out to us. We can do an in home design
(01:04):
consult with you. Just go to house Whisperer dot design,
house Whisperer dot Design. All right, I told you they
were around and you didn't hear from Tina earlier today,
but you know Tina's around and about, and so you
got to say hi to everybody.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
This morning, Hello and welcome home.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
There you go, and also there it is. There's her
spirit animal following right behind her. And also literally following
right behind her is Olivia. Olivia Ray Sharp, eight years old,
out of control. You want to say hi to everybody.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Hi.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
I also got to pettit chicken today.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Oh she also got to pettit kicking pot and the
crowd goes wild. All right, thank you? Oh I love
that kid. All right, if you haven't been listening thus far,
if you've just joined us, we're talking concrete today with
my very special in studio guests Chris Carson. Chris, are
(02:10):
you in any way related to Kit Carson?
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Possibly back in the history archives, but not to my knowledge?
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Okay, all right. I was just checking because I'm reading
a book on him right now, and so it was
just in my mind. I'm like, wait a second, I
have to ask that question.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
I mean we're all relayed to everybody at some point, right,
but nothing direct that you're aware?
Speaker 3 (02:30):
All right?
Speaker 1 (02:30):
All right, okay, very famous frontier concrete man, Kit Carson. No,
not at all. All right, anyway, we're talking concrete. But
it's top of the hour, so guess what time to
go to the phones, and so let's get a couple
of calls in, shall we?
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Is it is it? Shoe?
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Is it?
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Shoe?
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Shoe?
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Welcome me? Q Oh you okay?
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (03:02):
All right, Hey, Hugh, how's it going?
Speaker 3 (03:05):
Good? Good morning? Good morning, yeah going? Well, thanks, Yeah,
I just had a quick question for you. I'm actually
from Eagle Rock myself personally, Oh my goodness, grew up
going to schol Canyon as a kid. That was a
treat to go up to Shoal Canyon.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
You were just you were so close, so close to
me at that point because I was living back in
the canyon there literally. Well, yeah, it's yeah, So anyway,
all right, Oh.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Going to the dump was a treat of a kid.
But anyhow, Yeah, I work in home improvements. I've been
doing it for quite a few years, and one of
our staples that we install is text coat. I'm sure
you're familiar with it, and I just want to get
kind of your feedback on it, see what you your
thought on it was, and see if it's really kind
of worth it in the long run, as opposed to
like say, Benjamin More exterior paints.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
You know what I mean. I don't have a I
don't have an issue with text your coat as long
as it's here. Well, here's my thing. I have seen
so many text coats, and by textco you want, Hugh,
go ahead and explain very quickly your understanding of text
cooat so everybody knows we're all on the same page.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Okay. So textcoat is a is a name brand of
a type of paint that's been that was created back
in nineteen sixty three as a long term solution to
exterior paints, you know, kind of replaced lead paint and
exterior lead oil paints, excuse me. And it's water based
and it's non toxic, and it's got a lot of
(04:38):
properties in it, like fire resistance. It's got to perlite
and all kinds of good things in it to make
it long lasting. It uses titanium as a base, and
it's just very expensive and I just want to see
it if you know, you agree with you know, my boss,
that is it's well worth it and people should be
(04:58):
buying it, you know.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Okay, all right, So and that's a great description of textcoat.
Here's the thing from two different perspectives, one from the
builder side of me. So let me wake up the builder.
It's a Sunday morning. He's asleep, so I'll wake him
up to comment on this. The builder side of me,
(05:21):
I have no issues with textcoat as long as the
prep work is done properly. And that's really what it
comes down to all painting, all forms of exterior paint
in all painting in general, is it's much like what
Chris and I have been talking about this morning, like
(05:42):
concrete prep, the prep before the poor is. You know,
it is ninety plus percent of the job in so
many ways, having everything right. And so the issues that
I've had in the past as a builder with text
coat is not the material itself. It's with the fact
that it's been slapped on very uh fast and furious
(06:07):
by some home improvement contractor who has not taken the
time and put in the effort to prep the surface well,
prime the surface well so that we get a good bond.
Because text coat is a very very thick milled material
to put on the outside of any structure, and it
has that rubberized latex quality to it, which is one
(06:30):
of its advantages, you know, bridges cracks some and that
kind of stuff. But because so thick, if it doesn't,
if it isn't clinging incredibly well, then any amount of
moisture inside the stucco or that gets behind it will
push it off and will push it off, and once
it comes off, if it's not holding well, it starts
(06:51):
coming off in sheets. So that's not the fault of
the texture coat itself. That is the fault of a
rushed application. So my honest opinion, Hugh, Yeah, from the
contractor point of view is that I have no issue
with the product per se. I think it's a quality
(07:11):
product that works well for some homes in some situations, uh,
and could work well you know, in a lot of
different ways. My issue is that a lot of text
coat contractors are are kind of you know, blow and
(07:32):
go contractors who come in and just like voom, boom, bump,
and they don't take the time to prep the surface well,
and then we end up inheriting those problems down the road.
So that is that's my contractor perspective. It's a it's
a solid material, it has its uses, it's got a
lot of benefits to it, but you've got to find
(07:54):
a contractor who's going to do it well. Number one.
On the design side of things, the designer in me
UH only has two issues UH to discuss text coat.
One is, as a designer, its texture is not always
the texture I want, and so it unless you know,
(08:15):
like everything else, everything has its application, and nothing should
be applied universally everywhere, right because it has its own look,
it has its own vibe, and if it fits with
what we're doing, we're all for it. And if it doesn't,
then I want to go elsewhere. Okay, I want I
want to address things with a different product. And secondly, real.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Quick before before you get there is picture, there is
texture text coat, but then there's also like flat, so
it will just it'll just take on the look of
anything that is being painted.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
So so yeah, what's there understood understood? It's just not
It's just not something that I sell as a universal
coding for every thing, because there's always a time where
there's you know, it's a time to use something else.
But as a whole, I have no issue with the
with the quality of the product. But again, a well
(09:14):
adhered exterior paint of good quality can last a heck
of a long time. There are other fire resistant coatings
that can go on the outside of a house. So
it's a toolbox. So for me, you know, I it's
a toolbox. One of the things as a designer that
I usually struggle with is when I find textured, heavily
(09:35):
textured text coat that's been run up a stucco wall
and then across a sofet or an eve out to
the facier board. It all cringey about that, and it's
usually it also from the builder side of things that
becomes a weak point. So anyway, Hugh, a great question,
(09:56):
Thanks for throwing it out there, and yeah, that's my opinion.
I even went long into the break to explain that.
So super appreciate the call, my friend. Yeah, as long
as your company is one that is installing it with
integrity and all of the prep work necessary, you know,
have at it, my friend, because it has its uses,
(10:18):
absolutely for sure. All right, y'all, when we come back
more of your calls.
Speaker 4 (10:24):
You're listening to Home with Dean Sharp on demand from
KFI AM six forty.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
We're talking concrete today with my special in studio guests
Chris Carson. But right now we are taking calls. I
want to go back to the phones. Let's see here
bumping a bump, bump, bum, Let's talk to Jim. Hey, Jim,
welcome home.
Speaker 5 (10:53):
Hey you guys, how's it go this morning?
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Doing great? How can we help you?
Speaker 3 (10:57):
Hey? I have a question for mister Cromson on two questions.
Speaker 5 (11:01):
One of them is, I hear the word concrete mason,
and you're kind of toss around together, and I'm not
sure what the difference is. And the second question is
what are the top two reasons for concrete failure?
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Okay? All right? And your your your connection is a
little wonky. I can hear you. You're just kind of
you're warbling a little bit so, but I'm just going
to repeat that. So two questions, Chris. One, he hears
the word the terms concrete and masonry thrown in together.
What's the difference between the two, And then what are
the two top reasons for concrete failure?
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Okay? Yes, difference between concrete and masonry pretty simple. Concrete
is concrete flour, driveways, patios. It's a different product. Masonry
is it's all called hardscape. But masonry is more in
the form of units, whether it's block brick pavers. You're
(11:56):
building a barbecue or a fire pit, doing a brick planter.
That's masonry work. Okay, so it all includes concrete. Yeah,
there's footings to build the masonry, so it's all concrete is.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
The mortar that's going in between the masonry. So I
think that's a really great way of putting it, is
that masonry is that what we're building, is we're building
it out of units, and concrete is pouring in as
a as a solid mass essentially, and.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
They all go hand in hand. So you kind of
want a contractor that's experiencing, you know, both masonry and
concrete because they have everything to do with each other,
one and the same. Almost. Yeahs oars back to failures.
It's it could be you know, it's hard to say
(12:45):
number one, number two reasons for failure. It just starts
from the early onset of grading, preppering, prepping. What am
I pouring over? Is it clay? Is an expansive soil?
Is this thing going to heave on me?
Speaker 3 (12:59):
Orse?
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Think? So the preparation is obviously key and just to skip,
you know, kind of a to the end here, you
have your base material compacted sand or based material. You
have your rebar, you need a good quality concrete. I
like to pour from trucks. You can get these companies
that have a car decrete or you can mix up
(13:20):
my hand. Most likely it's not uh, it's not gonna
have the p S I and the quality that you're
gonna need from a ready mixed company. So and then back,
you know, back to the real failures. You know, it
could just could be as simple as overwetting the concrete,
pouring later in the day when it's too hot, not
(13:43):
having enough people to control the finishing, and the proper technique.
I always like to pour in the morning. First thing.
It gives us plenty of time to work with things.
The trucks are on time more than a timely manner.
You are to concrete. Second round, say ten eleven o'clock.
Sometimes the truck won't get to the job to one o'clock.
(14:04):
So and then then the lastly, just we talked about
control giants and the expansion joints, the lines that you
put in the concrete. They might look decorative, but they're
there for reason. And that's probably the number one thing
in keeping your concrete from failing. And those need to
be within an eight to six foot square grid square
(14:24):
forty fives. Whatever you want to do, you need to
get these lines in there.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
I'm going to jump in here because you and I
are going to talk about this next segment, you know,
kind of in depth. So keep listening Jim as we
talk about that. But I think I think essentially let
me let me add in here. When we talk about
concrete failure, I mean, they're really kind of are only
two kinds of concrete failure. One is a structural fail
(14:50):
and that's really bad, and two is an esthetic fail.
And so I would draw a differential between those two.
A structural fail is a disaster for a project because
you know you've got structural concrete under your home?
Speaker 5 (15:06):
Do it?
Speaker 1 (15:06):
You know in retaining walls? Do you know it's there
to do a very very specific job. And I'm not
too implying that there isn't there are non structural concrete
because you know there's a structure to a driveway. But
and a lot of homeowners aren't aware of this. You know,
when it comes to flatwork around your house, you don't
even have to pull a permit for flat work around
(15:28):
your house. It is not considered essensial structural support because
it's just people are walking on it, vehicles are driving
on it, and so you can just have that all
designed and poured without a permit. The city is not
involved in that. But anything that where concrete is a
foundation for something else where it's holding up the walls
(15:50):
of your home or holding back a large amount of
soil that is you know that otherwise would find its
way into your yard. Those are very very specific engineered
structural applications, and so if concrete fails in that way,
we are in serious trouble. Most homeowners consider structural concrete
(16:12):
failure when they come out and they look at their
garage slab, or they look at their driveway or their
patio and there are cracks or uplift or things happening
in places that they just don't want it to have happen.
I mean, they don't have to move out because of that,
but they hate the way it looks and so as
(16:33):
a result, So that's, by the way, Jim, what we're
going to be talking about next, not so much the
deep chemistry of getting all the structural stuff right, but
when it comes to decorative esthetic finish on concrete, the
need for crack controlled joints, and Chris is going to
give us some seriously, seriously good advice about that, not
(16:56):
only how often they should be, but where they should
be and and what direction they should be running, and
do they need to be wide or do they need
to be deep or both? All of that we will
cover right after.
Speaker 4 (17:09):
You're listening to Home with Dean Sharp on demand from
KFI Am sixty.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
We're talking concrete this morning with my very special in
studio guest Chris Carson, Concrete and Mason Contractor. Extraordinary and
just such a great time with him this morning. I
want to get back into it, Chris, So all right,
let me throw out just at first, because I don't
(17:37):
care how long it takes for us to talk about this.
I want to make sure that people are really learning
some things this morning. Let me throw out four little
facts for y'all right now about concrete, and then we're
going to talk about the fourth one ad exhaustion. At
exhaustion now a number one concrete. You got to know
(17:59):
this concrete doesn't dry. We talk about concrete drawing. It
doesn't dry. Concrete doesn't dry. It cures. Okay. Curing is
a is a chemistry. Thing. It means that something is
undergoing a process of stabilizing under the influence of a compound.
And so, just so you know, the part of the
prep and the planning of a concrete poor, a proper
(18:22):
concrete pore is that you're designing the mix. You heard
Chris use that term mix design. You're designing the mix
for a specific structural or application. You're designing the mix
based on the weather of the day, the heat of
the day, the cool of the day, the amount of
humidity that's in or lack thereof. You're designing the poor
(18:47):
to basically maximize the retention of the moisture that comes
in the mix. We don't want to pour when it's
raining because we're adding additional water to the whole problem,
and you can't finish concrete in the rain that way.
And we don't want to pour when it's one hundred
and eighty degrees outside because we're losing water out of
(19:10):
the mix so fast that it doesn't cure properly and
we end up with a weak finish. Even though the
concrete dries and it's hard, but it is lost a
lot of its strength. The water that's in the mix
needs to stay in there for as long as as
possible to do its job and activate all of the
cement molecules so that they come to full adhesion. Because
(19:34):
it's a curing process, it's also, by the way, a
thermogenic process, which means if you've ever had the opportunity
to walk up and put your hand on the belly
of a concrete truck, when it shows up a cement truck,
you'll find that it's warm. It's warm in there. As
concrete cures, it lets off heat. There's a whole thing
(19:55):
that's going on there, and so the timing of those trucks.
Concrete can't stand there forever, and the longer it mixes,
the warmer it gets. And you know, there's an expiration
date on a on a cement truck, which is why
Chris earlier in the show was saying, Hey, I like
to do Poor's first thing in the morning, because because
ordering the trucks as they come from the cement factory,
(20:19):
they are more reliable timing wise, cause if you're the first,
if you're the first job, and you should talk to
your concrete people and your contractor about that. Can we
make sure that we're the first job for an early
morning poor, you've got more control of your environment, more
control of the heat of the day, and more control
of the reliability of the trucks showing up, because if
something goes wrong on a first poor and things get delayed,
(20:42):
that's why the people who are waiting for a midday
poor sometimes their trucks end up coming late later than expected,
and so that's a whole thing. Another thing is to
understand that without special attention to specialized ad mixtures, concrete
is not waterproof. Concrete is, in its most rudimentary nature
(21:05):
is as a cure is it squeezes that water out
and leaves behind empty voids and capillaries. Concrete is a
giant stone sponge in essence, and so if there are
moisture issues, there have to be vapor barriers involved and
all sorts of things like that. So you just need
to understand that about concrete. And now to get to
the point that we're going to talk about in the
(21:27):
next segment. And I'm just setting it up here, and
we went a little long last segment, so I'm gonna
cut it short here so we can get back on schedule.
But everything you've heard me say this before, hopefully and
if you're new to the show, then lucky you. I'm
gonna say it again. Everything in life is strong in
some ways, but not in all ways. Okay, that's just
(21:49):
a life principle, and it's definitely a principle in physics
and in mechanics and in chemistry. Concrete is strong in
one particular way. It, like stone, has incredible capacity for
what we call compressive strength. Okay, try taking a one
(22:09):
foot by one foot cube of concrete and putting unbelievable
even force on it from all sides. You won't move
it an inch. Try crushing it just with even force.
Or you take a one foot by one foot cube
of concrete you could park on. You put park an
aircraft carrier on top of it, if you've got it
(22:30):
set up the right way. I'm exaggerating obviously, but the
point is concrete is incredibly strong compressively. But concrete, like
most stone, is brittle. Meaning I could take that thing,
that cube that I just put unbelievable amounts of pressure on,
(22:50):
and uh, I could take a hammer, just a hammer
and hit the corner of it and crack the corner
right off, boom off it comes. Because concrete is brittle. Now,
the opposite of concrete would be a material like steel,
which has incredible what we call tensile strength. You can
put a lot of pressure on steel. You can bend
it and arc it and tie it in a bow,
(23:14):
and guess what, it didn't break. It flexed and we
could pull it and it doesn't snap. It has incredible
tensile strength. But you know, we could put a lot
of pressure on that little rod of steel and smash
it flat. Not so much compressive strength. So guess what
when you combine something that has tensile strength and you
(23:35):
put it right in the middle of a concrete pour
something that has great compressive strength but no tensile strength, Well,
it's reinforced concrete. Concrete and steel mashed together. That helps
the cement and the concrete have a little bit of both,
(23:56):
more of both, right, And that is why we add
re bar, which is short for reinforcement bar. That's why
we add steel to every good concrete poor in various ways.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
More the more.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
Structural capacity the concrete has to have, the more elaborate
and larger the steel is, and so on and so forth,
all the way down to sidewalks that you know you
could use welded wire mesh that's still a steel component.
The point is this concrete is going to crack. It's
going to crack, it's going to settle, it's going to
find its way to crack. How do we control those
(24:32):
cracks and where we use crack controlled joints? And so
when we come back from the break, UH, Chris is
going to give us an entire masterclass lesson on what
to be looking for, what to demand, and uh, what's
right and wrong about some crack control joints because ultimately,
you know, we can talk all the practical, you know,
(24:53):
the the the ethereal science of it all. At the
end of the day, we're talking about stuff in your home,
the hardscape that's outside your home. And if you're thinking
about doing an addition and or maybe a new build,
how do we handle a large amount of concrete that
we don't want to put crack control joints in. We'll
(25:15):
talk about post tension concrete as well. But when we
come back, don't go anywhere. We're going to tell you
how to build your next concrete project without ugly cracks.
Stay with me.
Speaker 4 (25:29):
You're listening to Home with Dean Sharp on Demand from
KFI Am sixty.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
I hope you're enjoying your Sunday morning. We certainly are.
I'm sitting here in studio with doing one of my
favorite things, and that is talking shop with another expert
in the field of home building, Chris Carson, concrete and
masonry expert, and just so so so much experience, so
(26:00):
much expertise. So Chris, I'm going to dive back in.
There's slabs, that in structural stuff that we do for homes,
and I want to address that. We're going to get
to talking about like post tension work versus traditional rebar
and pros and cons and things to be aware of there.
(26:21):
But let's just talk about the kind of concrete that
probably most of our listeners right now are thinking about.
Which is the new patio or the new driveway or
a little sidewalk or backyard paths or what we're going
to you and I refer to as decorative finish, you know,
esthetic concrete work. And the enemy there, well, obviously I
mean concrete. If you've got any concrete guy who knows
(26:44):
anything about what he's doing, you're not going to worry
about structural fails there per se. But the enemy there
really comes down to two things. It comes down to
cracks and then just just the finish that you've picked
and how reliable that finish ends up overall. But let's
talk cracks right now, Just cracks. Nobody wants cracks in
(27:07):
their concrete work, but you're gonna get them, aren't you.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
You are.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
Concrete's going to settle down against the ground, and even
if there's no settling, the ground moves. It moves not
just because of earthquakes, but it moves because when it
gets wet, some ground swells a little bit microscopically minutia,
but it's enough. If it's pushing against a brittle object,
which is what the cement is, it's going to crack.
(27:33):
So we got to tell the cracks where to go.
And that's the point of a crack control joint. Now,
I asked you earlier in the show what's your preferred distance,
and you said six feet. You don't like to get
it beyond six feet. But there's more detailed than just that.
It's the direction of those control joints, and now the
question of do they need to be wide, do they
(27:55):
need to be deep? Do they need to be both?
Speaker 2 (27:57):
So talk to us about that Yeah, normally you're gonna
want to put in a grid. There's a forty five
degree grid. A square grid is more common and more practical,
makes more sense with the way concrete reacts when it
does crack.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Okay, so let's explain that. So I get asked to
put in forty five degree diamond patterns all the time,
and they're lovely. They're lovely, and in some situations you
might find that we're going in the right direction with
the concrete. But let's say we've got a maybe a well,
let's just say a garden path in the backyard four
feet wide and it's running out twenty some feet. Okay,
(28:37):
so it's a long, thin thing, and I want to
put a I'm going to put a lot of crack
control joints. I'm gonna score it every two feet, but
it's going to be on a forty five Is that
going to solve my problem?
Speaker 3 (28:48):
No?
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Oh, the concrete wants to go across the narrowest point.
There's different things corners. You can just look at what
you're setting up on a side yard and you can
work out a score mark pattern off the house and walls,
air conditioning pads, things like that. The square is going
(29:11):
to give you more protection if you have a long
walk or drive weights in the forty five's, those cracks
are not going to want to travel that forty five
degree angle in a distance and protect the rest of
the concrete. He wants to just ignore those joints and
go straight across to the narrowest point. And it's just
going to do its thin because concrete's brittle. So the
forty five degrees not my favorite choice. It does work
(29:35):
as long as you can get the joints in there
that properly will work. But my you know, my desire
would the safest bet would be to go into a
square grid.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
So this is where now, as a designer and a builder,
this is where where my disciplines mesh together. Because you know,
in a in a an imperfect world where there are
no laws of physics, designers can design anything they want, uh.
But in the real world there are limitations to what
(30:10):
should be designed in a in an instance because of
how you know the materials are going to react. And
so if I don't want my client to end up
with cracks, sometimes I have to break the bad news. Listen, No,
we shouldn't put that we shouldn't put the score joints
in that direction because they're not gonna help. We're gonna
get a crack right across the surface of that diamond anyway.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
If we've got a like a large patio pore and
it sort of swoops out into a little, a little
hour glass passageway to another one, think of like an
hour like two larger bits of concrete mass with a
smaller kind of neck or a waist in between it.
Where you walk through. Where's that where's that crack going
(30:52):
to show up?
Speaker 2 (30:53):
I'm gonna put money right in the middle at the
narrows point.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
You're gonna bet some good money right there at that
tiny little hour glass waste because you've got these two
large masses and the tension is looking for the weakest point,
isn't it.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
I'm going to come back tomorrow and I'm gonna see
the crack. It usually happens right away too. But that's
a no brainer right there.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Now. So these joints do they need to be wide?
What's the secret.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
With on the joints? To me, just collect dust and
leaves and dirt. Really, a nice professional job would be
a very tight and we have all kinds of different
groovers with different wits and depths. But the width is
not necessary. It's the depth, and you'd be surprised at
how little it takes. You could almost take a fingernail
(31:45):
or a pencil and draw a line across a walkway
and for some reason it wants to go there. It's
so that's why we put the control joints and I
like real tight ones on the top. And the depth
is not that important. It's just the fact that you're
getting it in there and the concrete reacts to that.
(32:05):
It doesn't have to be two three inches deep. I mean,
you have the rebars so you can't go too deep.
But it's amazing how little it could be. Sometimes you
just see something that could be an eighth inch thick
that we call dummy joints and no crack right there.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
So the depth, the deeper that joint, the more it
is essentially attracting the tension weakness of the area over
to it. But the width, so the old traditional like sidewalk,
you know, it rolls in. It's big, old wide, and
people assume, well, that's what I've got to have all
over my stuff, and that you're saying that's not the case.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
And if you want to get real fancy it keeps going.
You could put in a very thin joint and if
you really want a high end result, get a quick
you saw a diamond blade and go in and open
up those joints and cut them down an inch or
an inch and a half. That's insurance.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Have you ever just done no joints and then come
in the day after and cut the joints in or
you but you have ways of scoring them during the poor.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
Very commonly done. They make special saws that you can
put on the concrete the same day and saw cut
those joints in. It's more of a commercial application. A
few problems with that is the blades do tend to
chip out the aggregant on the on the cuts, and
also you're allowing time for that concrete to react and
(33:32):
crack usually happens very quick. A lot of people will
pour big jobs and put their finishing machines on there,
not having to worry about snapping lines and cutting in
joints to you know, eliminate finishers and make the job
an easier job to do, and then just come back
and saw cut it. A lot of people won't saw
cut it the next day, Well, the next day a
(33:54):
lot of times is too late. Concrete likes to relieve
itself pretty much immediately.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
Okay, all right, all right, So when we come back,
we're going to take a little break from the aesthetics
and we're going to talk about slabs, house foundation slabs.
The traditional slab is done with rebar rebar at eighteen
inches on center twenty four inches on center. However, the
(34:21):
structural engineer has kalked out the strength of the slab.
There are some conveniences when you're remodeling if you've got
a traditional slab. But you and I were talking during
the break. If we want a large surface that is
perfectly smooth and has no crack control joints, and we
want to minimize or altogether eliminate cracking in that situation,
(34:44):
then post tension is just a revolutionary way of doing this.
It's been around since the applied to home since the
eighties or so, and a lot of people are sitting
on post tension slabs right now and they don't realize it,
and so we need to talk about that and also
let homeowners know that if you live in a house
(35:05):
that was built in the eighties, or newer. Before you
go cutting into that thing for your next remodel, you
better know whether or not it's a traditional or a
post tention slab. We'll talk about that right after we
have the news. You're listening to Dean Sharp the House
Whisper on KFI. This has been Home with Dean Sharp
(35:25):
the House Whisper. Tune into the live broadcast on KFI
AM six forty every Saturday morning from six to eight
Pacific time, and every Sunday morning from nine to noon
Pacific time, or anytime on demand on the iHeart Radio
app
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