The It Depends Podcast with Matt and Tenille

What does it really mean to do co-design well — and when might stepping back be more powerful than stepping in?

Jessie Robinson is a proud Wiradjuri man and founder of Mawang Consulting. In this conversation, he challenges us to think differently about co-design — not as a process or framework, but as a fundamentally relational practice rooted in power...

In this episode of It Depends, Matt and Tenille speak with Dr Luke Craven, CEO of PLACE Australia (Partnerships for Local Action and Community Empowerment), a first-of-its-kind effort to connect, resource, and strengthen place-based initiatives nationally.

Luke shares PLAC...

Can a dishwasher be an indicator of community resilience?

In this episode of It Depends, Matt speaks with historian and social researcher Dr Gretel Evans about the powerful intersections between storytelling, place, disaster, and community resilience. Drawing on her work in oral history, migration, and environmental history, Gretel shares how her research into floods and bushfires led her into large-scale, place-based recovery thro...

We talk a lot about what evaluation is. Methods, models, frameworks, competencies. All the pieces we use to make sense of complex systems. But what about the people doing the work. How do we think, learn, and navigate the field, especially at a time when artificial intelligence is influencing how knowledge is created, interpreted, and judged.

In this episode, Dr Bianca Montrosse Moorhead helps us look beneath the surface of evaluat...

Suicide prevention is one of the most complex challenges in public health - but what happens when we stop treating it as an individual issue and start seeing it as a system?

In this episode of It Depends, Matt and Tenille speak with Dr Maria Michail, Associate Professor at the University of Birmingham, whose pioneering work bridges psychology, systems science, and participatory research.

Together we unpack what it means to move “fr...

We throw the word co-design around a lot. It’s become shorthand for collaboration, participation, even goodwill — a prefix that promises inclusion. But what does that little “co-” really mean? In this episode, we explore the shades of co-design: how far collaboration can go, when it works, when it doesn’t, and how systems thinking and design intersect in practice.

Drawing on years of work at the intersection of social innovation, f...

In this episode of It Depends, Matt and Tenille sit down with Todd Miller, Associate Director of Resilience at Auckland University of Technology (AUT) and creator of the Complex Adaptive Disaster and Emergency Management (CADEM) Framework - a systems-based rethink of how we prepare for, respond to, and recover from disasters.

Todd brings a deeply relational take to emergency management. Drawing from years in the Army, firefighting,...

In this episode of The It Depends Podcast, Matt and Tenille sit down with Associate Professor Emily Gates from Boston College. Emily is an evaluator, educator, and systems thinker whose work bridges theory and practice, with a focus on how evaluation can better reflect the realities of large-scale systems change.

Their conversation ranges from the limits of outcomes-focused evaluation to the importance of boundaries, perspectives, ...

And just like that the 2025 Australian Evaluation Society Conference comes to a close! Matt and Tenille quickly debrief on the day, but most importantly we hear some thoughts and reflections from the delegates on what they took from the day - the Conference as a whole!

Also, here is the evaluation report that Jo Farmer completed that Tenille discussed. Shout out to all those clients that publish such great examples for others to le...

Day 2 of the 2025 Australian Evaluation Society Conference is done and dusted! Matt and Tenille debrief on the walk back to their hotel and we hear some thoughts from some of the delegates on what they took from the day.

Also, here is Bobby Maher's paper that Tenille referenced in the episode on defining collective capability

If you haven't listened to Day 1's episode (6.1) make sure to check that out first and then come back!

Than...

Coming to you from Canberra, Matt and Tenille summarise their key takeaways from the first day of the Australian Evaluation Society Conference in Canberra. This is the first of a three-part series covering each day. 

 

If you haven't been able to make the Conference this is a chance to keep up with the latest thinking - as best we can - or if you are here, it's a chance to get our take on some of the key messages.

 

Thanks for list...

In this episode of It Depends, we sit down with internationally recognised evaluator Julian King to explore what it really means to assess value. Moving beyond traditional cost-benefit analysis and social return on investment, Julian introduces his award-winning Value for Investment (VfI) approach - an interdisciplinary framework that combines economic rigor with stakeholder perspectives.   Together, they unpack how VfI helps evalu...

Scaling impact sounds simple—just do more of what worked. In reality, it’s messy: contexts shift, resources are finite, politics and procurement warp timelines, and “success” looks different to different people. That’s why designing and evaluating for scale is one of the hardest gigs in our field.

In this episode of The It Depends Podcast, Matt sits down with evaluation pioneer John Gargani to explore the intersections of design, e...

In this episode of The It Depends Podcast, Tenille Moselen speaks with Dr. Skye Trudgett, a proud First Nations woman and CEO of Kowa, about putting Indigenous data sovereignty into practice.

Skye shares her path from aspiring sleep scientist to leading national work in evaluation, research, and community-led data governance. This episode demystifies and unpacks what Indigenous data sovereignty really means (“caring for data so dat...

Join Matt and Tenille for an exclusive behind-the-scenes chat with Kim Grey and Ruth Nicholls, the dynamic duo co-convening the 2025 Australian Evaluation Conference in Canberra. Discover what's in store when the evaluation community gathers from 15-19 September under the theme "Beyond the Bubble."

Kim and Ruth take us through their thinking on why 'B...

In this debut episode of It Depends Podcast, co-hosts Matt Healey and Tenille Moselen dive into the murky middle of evaluation practice—where complexity thrives, answers are rarely black and white, and good questions matter more than quick fixes.

They’re joined by Eleanor Williams, Managing Director of the Australian Centre for Evaluation, for a wide-ranging and thoughtful conversation on evidence, ethics, and embedding evaluation ...