Complicating The Narrative
In this podcast, hosted by Dr. Salma Abdalla—Assistant Professor and Director of the Healthier Futures Lab at Washington University in St. Louis—we provide rigorous, evidence-based analysis of complex population health challenges. In a time of social, economic, and political upheaval—marked by eroding public trust, polarized narratives, and growing uncertainty—this podcast aims to challenge oversimplified narratives about the forces that shape the health of populations. Salma engages guests from across disciplines in rigorous, evidence-based conversations that challenge conventional wisdom. The conversations sometimes pose uncomfortable questions, seek nuanced perspectives, and question not just what we think, but how we arrive at our conclusions in public health. We explore the inherent complexities, real-world tradeoffs, and unintended consequences of public health interventions. Our goal is to empower listeners with nuanced understanding, helping them navigate these multifaceted issues in an informed and balanced way. The podcast is supported by the Washington University School of Public Health — https://schoolofpublichealth.washu.edu — and the Frick Initiative. Host: Dr. Salma Abdalla Editors: Catalina Melendez Contreras and Zachary Linhares Music: Eden Avery / Melting Glass from Epidemic Sound https://www.epidemicsound.com/track/2fqOXWpHab/ Contact us at: s.abdalla@wustl.edu
Episodes
Why should we all be concerned about sea-level rise and its health impacts today, despite it seeming like a problem of the future?
Dr. Kathryn Bowen and Dr. Jemilah Mahmood join Salma to discuss the recently launched Lancet Commission on Sea-Level Rise, Health, and Justice. They argue that sea-level rise is neither just a coastal nor a future problem, but a present-day publi...
What happens when the global health architecture built over 80 years is changed drastically in 16 months and what should replace it?
Dr. Gbenga Ogedegbe is the Dr. Adolph & Margaret Berger Professor of Medicine and Population Health and the director of the Division of Health & Behavior in the Department of Population Health at NYU Grossman School of Medicine. His res...
How do public health institutions experiencing declining public trust go about becoming trustworthy again?
Erin O'Malley is the Executive Director of the Coalition for Trust in Health and Science, a coalition of more than 90 organizations working to enhance public trust in health and science. With nearly two decades of experience in health policy, advocacy, and cross-sectora...
By some estimates, hundreds of thousands of Americans die each year who would still be alive if the United States had the mortality rates of other wealthy countries. What makes this even more unsettling is that it wasn't always this way. In the mid-twentieth century, Americans actually lived longer than their counterparts in other rich nations. Something changed, and it's been getting worse for over four decades.
Dr. Andrew Stokes...
This is a Purple Public Health Project episode.
Dr. Itai Bavli is a Research Associate and lecturer at the W. Maurice Young Centre for Applied Ethics at the University of British Columbia, as well as the author of the Substack When Public Health Goes Wrong. His research focuses on developing a framework for understanding public health decisions and actions that have gone wro...
Why does the US spend more on healthcare than other high-income countries and still have lower life expectancy?
Dr. Jose Francisco Figueroa is an Associate Professor of Health Policy and Management at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, Assistant Professor of Medicine at Harvard Medical School, and a practicing Internist and Associate Physician at the Brigham and ...
This is a revisit of an episode originally published in September 2025.
How can we capture complex social phenomena impacting health in research?
Dr. Maria Glymour, Professor and Chair of the Department of Epidemiology at Boston University School of Public Health, has focused her research on the social factors influencing dementia and cognitive function in old age.
Salma and Maria analyze the dementia research landscape and discu...
How can we support people age safely and with dignity in their own homes?
Dr. Susy Stark, is a Professor at the Washington University in St Louis School of Public Health. As an occupational therapist and community-based researcher, her work focuses on helping adults with chronic conditions and functional decline age successfully in place by using tailored environmental support and self-management strategies to prevent falls.
In ...
How does research actually shape policy and when is evidence "good enough" to act on?
In this episode, Salma Abdalla is joined by Dr Kathryn Backholer, Professor of Public Health Policy and co-director of the Global Centre for Preventive Health and Nutrition (GLOBE) at Deakin University in Australia. Kathryn’s work focuses on building evidence that decision-makers can use, starting with policy problems that need solving and workin...
Does public health belong to people with a specific perspective, or is it—as the term implies—for the public at large?
Today’s episode is different. Dean Sandro Galea, Dean and Distinguished Professor at WashU School of Public Health, returns to the podcast to discuss the Purple Public Health Project (PPHP), a new initiative he is launching with Salma. The PPHP aims to start a conversation about how public health thinks, acts, and...
In global health, evidence, authority, and distance are often deeply entangled.
Dr. Seye Abimbola is Professor of Health Systems at the School of Public Health, University of Sydney. He is a leading voice in debates on decolonizing global health, with scholarship focused on health systems governance and epistemic injustice. He is also the founding editor-in-chief of BMJ Global Health and the author of The Foreign Gaze (2024).
In ...
Will superbugs take over the world, as increasing media articles suggest?
Dr. Sabiha Essack is Professor in Pharmaceutical Sciences at the University of KwaZulu-Natal (UKZN), where she established the Antimicrobial Research Unit, and the South African Research Chair in Antibiotic Resistance and One Health. Dr. Essack’s research focuses on evidence-informed strategies to mitigate antibiotic resistance through prevention and survei...
When tribunals like the International Criminal Court prosecutes gender-based violence in conflict, what evidence do they need? And who gathers it?
Kim Thuy Seelinger is a Professor of Practice at Washington University School of Public Health and former senior coordinator for Gender-Based Crimes at the International Criminal Court in the Hague until the Spring of 2025. For ov...
What is global health—and who gets to define it?
For decades, the field has claimed universality while being shaped largely by specific institutions, priorities, and assumptions. But what happens when we center the places where most global health “problems” are identified? What does it mean to tell someone living in a Dhaka slum to shelter in place during a pandemic?
In this episode, Salma is joined by Dr. Sabina Faiz Rashid, Pro...
What do we mean when we say health is a human right? Dr. Benjamin Mason Meier is a Professor of Global Health Policy at the University of North Carolina (UNC) at Chapel Hill who has focused his research on the development, evolution, and application of human rights-based approaches to health.
In this episode, Dr. Meier joins Salma to explore the foundations of health as a human right—from its post-World War II origins to its deve...
What can Reddit, Instagram, and other digital platforms tell us about population health? Dr. Yulin Hswen, associate professor at the University of California San Francisco and associate editor of JAMA and JAMA+ AI, is a computational epidemiologist using big data to understand population health in our increasingly digital world.
In this episode, Salma sits down with Dr. Hswen to explore what our digital environments can tell us ab...
What if we could build our world from scratch—with health, justice, and thriving communities at its core?
In his new book Imagine Doing Better: Why Policies Backfire and How Prevention Thinking Can Change Everything, Dr. Paul J. Fleming, Associate Professor in the Department of Health Behavior and Health Education at the University of Michigan, argues that prevention—and ima...
The techniques that make health messages more effective—personalization, customization, targeted delivery—are the same tools driving the spread of inaccurate health claims at scale. Dr. Matthew Kreuter, WashU’s Kahn Family Professor of Public Health and founding director of the Health Communication Research Laboratory, is an expert on effective and equity-oriented health communications and has been thin...
What is epidemiology and how do we ensure that research is done right in this field? Dr. Matthew A. Fox, Professor in the Departments of Epidemiology and Global Health at Boston University School of Public Health, has dedicated his career to ensuring that epidemiologists get it right.
In this episode, Salma and Matt explore what epidemiology actually is, and is not, and discuss the importance of formulating research questions and h...
How can we capture complex social phenomena impacting health in research? Dr. Maria Glymour, Professor and Chair of the Department of Epidemiology at Boston University School of Public Health, has focused her research on the social factors influencing dementia and cognitive function in old age.
Salma and Maria analyze the dementia research land...
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