Former High Commissioner to the UK, Phil Goff, recently lost his job after commenting on Donald Trump's understanding of war history.
The Foreign Minister stepped in to fire Goff over his comments, leaving experts questioning whether he was suited to make the jump from politics to diplomacy.
Newstalk ZB political editor Jason Walls many people feel more worried about this second Trump term - and it's important for people to toe the line.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from Newstalks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
I think what that's now is news talks. He'd be
political editor Jason Wolves. Good morning, Jason, Good morning, Phil Goff.
Do we know when this dismissal will come into play?
Is it immediate?
Speaker 3 (00:22):
I'm pretty sure it was immediate, as in just basically, sorry,
you've done this as unacceptable, We're moving on.
Speaker 4 (00:29):
And I feel a little bit bad for Phil Goff.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
I mean, you know, it was probably a bit silly
saying it, but it happened at what's called an event
at Chatham House, and traditionally we have something because journalists
called Chathamhouse Rules, which come from the Chatham House, which
means that basically, if it's said, you're not allowed to
report on it, or it say, it's off the record,
as it were.
Speaker 4 (00:48):
So it's somewhat ironic that.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
He's essentially been fired because he said something at Chatham House.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Yeah, you're not that to identify who said it?
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Yeah, well, I mean again, this is the thing, like
these rules over the years have changed so much and
they're open to so much interpretation that some one person's
off the record as another person's background, so it all
gets a little confusing. So I can see why he
was quite confused or might have been quite confused about it.
But nevertheless, to what it does highlight is that there
(01:16):
is a little bit at this time of a worry
about the Trump administration and not wanting to say anything
that it's going to upset them. Because as far as
the comments about Donald Trump or the remarks made against him,
questioning his understanding of his history like Phil Goff did,
is probably quite a minor one. But nevertheless it highlights
(01:37):
just how worried New Zealand is about this administration.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
So do you think at any other time it would
have been a severe telling off as opposed to was taking.
Speaker 4 (01:45):
I think so.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
I think that it's just given the all sorts of
attentions there are in the proneness of the Trump administration
to do potentially something quite rash. I mean, we're looking
down the barrel of agricultural tariffs, we're looking down the
barrel of steel and aluminium tariffs for us as well.
At this stage the government is trying to do all
it can to ensure that New Zealand gets exemption for that.
(02:07):
And if we have one of our top diplomats out
there even slightly making fun of Donald Trump.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
That's not going to play very well for.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
US school Lunchgate continues.
Speaker 4 (02:18):
Yeah, well, I mean, it almost seems like it's never
going to end.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
You can't really open a newspaper or a listen to
a news bulletin without seeing something about it. And you know,
in a lot of cases, quite rightly, the burned plastic
issue is obviously problematic with the kid that got burned
after opening one of his and it's.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
Splattered everywhere, very problematic.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
So the Education Minister and the Associate Education Minister, so
that is David Seymour and Erica Stamford, they've been trying
to meet this week, or at least Erica Stamford has
been trying to meet with David Seymour. They said that
they were going to make it work on Tuesday, they
didn't find the time. They said they were going to
make it work on Wednesday, again, they couldn't find the time.
From what I understand, the issue seems to be in
(03:02):
Seymour's office in terms of finding his availability as it were.
But it really highlights what is a tense and frosty
relationship between Erica Stamford and David Seymour and this issue
is just really exacerbating it.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Adrian Orr does he owe us an explanation for his
resignation this week?
Speaker 4 (03:22):
Oh? Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
I mean he is the most powerful non elected civil
servant in New Zealand, like by quite some margin, and
he just decided to up and leave. And not only that,
just didn't tell anybody why. I mean, we've what we've
been forced to do is just in this void of
any actual information, is to speculate. And it seems like
the main factor is the fact that he is upset
(03:46):
at the fact that he's not going to get as
much funding for the Reserve Bank as he would have liked.
Every single government department of taking haircuts and it seems
the Reserve Bank was no exception to that, and so.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
He's just upped and left.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
And if it was you know, if it was a
health reason or if it was some family issue, usually
we would have sort of been briefed by one of
the two sides, Reserve Bank or the government to say, hey,
maybe tone it down a little bit.
Speaker 4 (04:11):
He's going through this, this and that, but there's been
none of it.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
And so obviously there's the issue is that he's had
this blow up with the finance minister and he's just decided,
you know what, Nope, not for me anymore.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
I'm going I.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Quite like that though, Jason. I like the fact we've
not being told it's to have more family time or
for health reasons and things like that. That's sort of
you know, you never quite know how truthful sometimes those
you know, those explanations are.
Speaker 4 (04:35):
Yeah, and I agree for the most part.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
I mean, not using your family as a crutch because
you're just a bit annoyed at work.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
I mean, I guess that's admirable.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
But still, I mean, the fact is we would have
found out anyway what the issue is. I mean, it
seems like it is this funding problem. Why didn't somebody
just come out and say that is We had the
chair of the bank coming out and saying, you know, oh,
it's a personal reasons.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
We know that it's just not happy.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
He doesn't want to be there any longer. It's that
simply it's fit up. But I do think that it
wasn't professionally handled. You know, as you say, you have
a very large public role there. You need to show
some respect to the board. You need to go through
a sort of a process. You don't just kind of
you know, So that's it. I'm out to see you later.
So definitely could have been handled I think, and a
little bit more of a dignified manner. Jason Walls, thank
(05:20):
you as always good to catch up with you.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to news Talks there'd be from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from Newstalks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
I think what that's now is news talks. He'd be
political editor Jason Wolves. Good morning, Jason, Good morning, Phil Goff.
Do we know when this dismissal will come into play?
Is it immediate?
Speaker 3 (00:22):
I'm pretty sure it was immediate, as in just basically, sorry,
you've done this as unacceptable, We're moving on.
Speaker 4 (00:29):
And I feel a little bit bad for Phil Goff.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
I mean, you know, it was probably a bit silly
saying it, but it happened at what's called an event
at Chatham House, and traditionally we have something because journalists
called Chathamhouse Rules, which come from the Chatham House, which
means that basically, if it's said, you're not allowed to
report on it, or it say, it's off the record,
as it were.
Speaker 4 (00:48):
So it's somewhat ironic that.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
He's essentially been fired because he said something at Chatham House.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Yeah, you're not that to identify who said it?
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Yeah, well, I mean again, this is the thing, like
these rules over the years have changed so much and
they're open to so much interpretation that some one person's
off the record as another person's background, so it all
gets a little confusing. So I can see why he
was quite confused or might have been quite confused about it.
But nevertheless, to what it does highlight is that there
(01:16):
is a little bit at this time of a worry
about the Trump administration and not wanting to say anything
that it's going to upset them. Because as far as
the comments about Donald Trump or the remarks made against him,
questioning his understanding of his history like Phil Goff did,
is probably quite a minor one. But nevertheless it highlights
(01:37):
just how worried New Zealand is about this administration.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
So do you think at any other time it would
have been a severe telling off as opposed to was taking.
Speaker 4 (01:45):
I think so.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
I think that it's just given the all sorts of
attentions there are in the proneness of the Trump administration
to do potentially something quite rash. I mean, we're looking
down the barrel of agricultural tariffs, we're looking down the
barrel of steel and aluminium tariffs for us as well.
At this stage the government is trying to do all
it can to ensure that New Zealand gets exemption for that.
(02:07):
And if we have one of our top diplomats out
there even slightly making fun of Donald Trump.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
That's not going to play very well for.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
US school Lunchgate continues.
Speaker 4 (02:18):
Yeah, well, I mean, it almost seems like it's never
going to end.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
You can't really open a newspaper or a listen to
a news bulletin without seeing something about it. And you know,
in a lot of cases, quite rightly, the burned plastic
issue is obviously problematic with the kid that got burned
after opening one of his and it's.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
Splattered everywhere, very problematic.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
So the Education Minister and the Associate Education Minister, so
that is David Seymour and Erica Stamford, they've been trying
to meet this week, or at least Erica Stamford has
been trying to meet with David Seymour. They said that
they were going to make it work on Tuesday, they
didn't find the time. They said they were going to
make it work on Wednesday, again, they couldn't find the time.
From what I understand, the issue seems to be in
(03:02):
Seymour's office in terms of finding his availability as it were.
But it really highlights what is a tense and frosty
relationship between Erica Stamford and David Seymour and this issue
is just really exacerbating it.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Adrian Orr does he owe us an explanation for his
resignation this week?
Speaker 4 (03:22):
Oh? Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
I mean he is the most powerful non elected civil
servant in New Zealand, like by quite some margin, and
he just decided to up and leave. And not only that,
just didn't tell anybody why. I mean, we've what we've
been forced to do is just in this void of
any actual information, is to speculate. And it seems like
the main factor is the fact that he is upset
(03:46):
at the fact that he's not going to get as
much funding for the Reserve Bank as he would have liked.
Every single government department of taking haircuts and it seems
the Reserve Bank was no exception to that, and so.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
He's just upped and left.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
And if it was you know, if it was a
health reason or if it was some family issue, usually
we would have sort of been briefed by one of
the two sides, Reserve Bank or the government to say, hey,
maybe tone it down a little bit.
Speaker 4 (04:11):
He's going through this, this and that, but there's been
none of it.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
And so obviously there's the issue is that he's had
this blow up with the finance minister and he's just decided,
you know what, Nope, not for me anymore.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
I'm going I.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Quite like that though, Jason. I like the fact we've
not being told it's to have more family time or
for health reasons and things like that. That's sort of
you know, you never quite know how truthful sometimes those
you know, those explanations are.
Speaker 4 (04:35):
Yeah, and I agree for the most part.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
I mean, not using your family as a crutch because
you're just a bit annoyed at work.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
I mean, I guess that's admirable.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
But still, I mean, the fact is we would have
found out anyway what the issue is. I mean, it
seems like it is this funding problem. Why didn't somebody
just come out and say that is We had the
chair of the bank coming out and saying, you know, oh,
it's a personal reasons.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
We know that it's just not happy.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
He doesn't want to be there any longer. It's that
simply it's fit up. But I do think that it
wasn't professionally handled. You know, as you say, you have
a very large public role there. You need to show
some respect to the board. You need to go through
a sort of a process. You don't just kind of
you know, So that's it. I'm out to see you later.
So definitely could have been handled I think, and a
little bit more of a dignified manner. Jason Walls, thank
(05:20):
you as always good to catch up with you.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to news Talks there'd be from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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