March 29, 2025 • 36 mins
Midwife Grace Strange joins the show to discuss birth plans vs reality.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talk
sib sounds like the radio back in ninety four, Servia
speak grew up two miss soul. It sounds like the radio.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Tag it down good time, So it up from Meline.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
We'll let a little benefit around a whole a country go. Yes,
welcome back. This is the Weekend Collective. I'm Tim Beverage.
And by the way, if you've missed any of the
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(00:53):
you can go to iHeartRadio and look for the Weekend Collective.
A couple of great hours with our panel with Lukedawn on,
Paul Spoonley and of course with our new guest camberltonon
from LJ. Hooker talking about alternative ways of getting in
the market. Now this is the Parents Squad and we
are joined by Well. I like to think it's her
first appearance on the show, because last time she made
(01:13):
her first appearance and I wasn't here, so it doesn't
really count. But it did count of course. And she's
a midwife. She's the founder of Anti Natal Anti Natal co.
And her name is Grace Strange. Gooday, Grace, how are
you doing?
Speaker 3 (01:26):
Hello?
Speaker 4 (01:26):
Good?
Speaker 3 (01:26):
Thank you, fun to meet you. Nice to have a
little friend in the studio at this time.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Yes, because last time I think the host was Jess Davidson.
She was in christ Church and you were sitting in
my seat. I know I was. It would have been
a bit weird, wouldn't it It was.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
I feel like I've been slightly demoted though, but also
premoted to be here in the room.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Well no, no, you are the star. Turn here. But
we want your calls on this on eight hundred eighty
ten eighty text nine to nine two. And there'll be
a range of people who come from an era where
birth plans were what the hell's a birth plan? But
most parents, many parents, modern parents will have been there.
They've carefully crafted a flawless birth plan. You've got the
soundtrack and the music. Oh my goodness, you didn't plan
(02:05):
this the perfect timeline, trying to maybe kidding yourselves into
believing it could go smoothly. But how much do birth
plans and reality tend to overlap? In fact, so we're
going to explore this. Grace and I have a chat
about the importance of a birth plan, but also the
approach you should take to it. Is your birth plan
something you think you need to adhere to religiously or
(02:27):
is it like it's good to have a birth plan
because you're thinking ahead and this is how it'll ideally go.
But as soon as you have your first contraction, everything
goes out the window and just let's get this thing born. Actually,
so e one hundred and eighty ten eighty you can
jump in anytime. We'd love to hear from you birth plans.
Now you have a sixteen month old, so it's within
(02:49):
recent memory for you. As a midwife, Did you have
a birth plan?
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Look, I am the least midwife, the midwifean you would know.
So most midwives would passionately love to have a home birth.
Would be there, Van I because I had like a
bit of a fertility journey to get pregnant. I actually
had an elect of cesarean. So I did have a
birth plan and it did all go perfectly to plan.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
I guess that's actually I guess that well, that is
the thing if you have an elect of cesarean. Then
you know when you're going to be induced or not induced.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
Have your baby?
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Yeah, have your baby? Sorry, thank you for them. Can
you believe I messed that one up? And just the
term it's called having a baby. But that's all sort
of taken. So birth plan is that's fairly simple. You
simply just want to pick the right time and being go.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Yeah, I mean unless you go into labor beforehand, in
which case you then get the option to continue with
your elective syrian which then turns into an emergency. Or
you can also choose to go try a vaginal birth
if you want to.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Actually, and you don't, you can share as much or
as little as you want about your own journey on this.
What would you have done if you had gone into
labor beforehand?
Speaker 3 (04:00):
I still would have had a sea section?
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Yeah? Yeah, how often do you see? What do you
what's the most interesting birth plan you have? Oh?
Speaker 3 (04:10):
That's I don't think they should be called birth plans. Yeah,
because a plan insinuates that you can actually make it happen,
Like your plan to have dinner with your friends, and
then you go and have dinner with your friends. You know,
it should be called birth preferences, which so at around
thirty six weeks, you have a meeting with your LMC
(04:31):
or the your midwife or your obstetrician where you talk
through all of your birth preferences. So, do you want
to have a spontaneous birth, do you not want to
get induced? Do you want to have an epidurrial? Do
you want to have a water birth? Do you want
to have vitamin knjics for your baby? Do you want
a breastfeed? Do you want to you know, all of
those things that they might like.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
My head spinning again and remembering the stuff.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
Yeah, the songs and things aren't really like you know,
the most important part.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Of people have that in their birth plan.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Yes, having a song, yes, definitely, Yeah, I know what
sort of song do they want? Anything?
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Sound of sperm whales and sort of waves crashing.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
Or like the most hard out rock music you have
ever heard in your whole life.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Oh so you could have had the same theme, I
ask you. Save you could have had motor Heads, the
Ace of Spades. I would imagine, given the if you
were having a vaginal birth and the contractions and the
excitement and the whole thing of I don't know if
there's that the right right word that you that heavy
metal would work quite well for that energy.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
It's quite inspirational. You know, you need a lot of
like passion and energy to push out of baby. So
you know, sperm Whales is probably not going to be
the best one.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
My my producer has given me permission to say she
had a full playlist.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
What was on it?
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Was it?
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Sperm Whales?
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Mostly country rock.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
I have to say country rock is high up there.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Yeah, a little bit of Tata.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
Yeah, Ta is definitely a key one.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Yeah. So actually, so birth plan you would say, well,
I'm guessing you would say that it's it's a nice
to have type of thing, and.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Yeah, I mean, look, the idea of it is to
communicate your wishes for birth, which I think is a
great thing and a great thing to communicate to the
people who are looking after you, so hopefully they can
make most, if not all, of those things happen for you.
But you also have to know that giving birth is
the day that is like the most out of control
day of your entire life. You're not like you're not
(06:30):
out of control that you don't have a lot of
hang on you.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Are well, actually, no, I know where're stumbling over this
because it's your body, and you know you have to
if you're having a vaginal birth, friends, you have to
listen to the instructions you give, but you have to
respond to them. That's your choice. But our experience was
just we went with everything. The midwife suggested, like, you
(06:55):
need to do this, now, we need to do this,
and we just we went with. We rode the wave
that was presented to us, and I say we my
wife the wave. I was probably supported shriveled up on
the corner anyway.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
But yes, I think you're out of control and that
you have no control of how it is going to
happen or how it is going to unfold. You are
in control, and that you get to make informed decisions. Yes,
every step of the way. So if the midwife had
suggested something to you that you didn't want to do,
you don't have to do it. Yeah, they can only
do things to you if you consent to it.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
So that can get pretty serious. Actually, when you've got
someone who's really needed, you need to maybe say, look,
I'm sorry, we need to have a cesarean somebody's like
I want to keep pushing in and the medical advices
and the I don't know how does that play out?
Speaker 3 (07:47):
Look Most most C sections, if you've gone into labor,
are called emergencies, but most of them aren't like life threatening,
so most of them you have a little bit of
time to be able to discuss the pros and cons,
not a long time. But this is where I think
antienat or classes come into play, because if you can
(08:09):
have some education around what happens in the C section,
what you know, what are the pros and cons of them,
what is it going to look like, what's the recovery?
At least if the option is presented to you, you
have some information to then make an informed decision around
whether you.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Want to do that or not. Because that's the other
thing we're going to talk about, and it's all part
of the same thing. It's all part of preparing for birth.
Because I've got a theory based on my limited experience.
But are We went to antiinadle classes for the first time.
Fumbly enough, we didn't think about it for the second
time because I think this sort of thing, you know,
that would be rare most people just over But I
(08:45):
sat there absorbing the information and I thought they were
I mean, I thought the antiddal classes. I was amazed.
Everyone should do them for goodness sake. If it's your
first child, I would advocate very strongly to do it,
but especially guys because my observation of it was the
women who were there, and it was majority of women.
(09:06):
Of course they it was like an The antiettle classes
was sort of a confirmation to them of what they
knew what was coming, because they've talked to friends who've
been through things, they've got mums and grandparents, and they
sort of know what's happening, and they're looking for confirmation,
whereas the guys sit there going what what happens? And
then that happens, and then and I asked the dumb
(09:28):
I deliberately. I specialized in dumb questions, but I didn't
mean it as a dumb question. But I did say
it like this. I said, I've got a question. I
think it's really I'm scared to ask it to the midwife.
And I said, how do you hold a baby?
Speaker 3 (09:42):
Yeah, that is a common question, and she said that
is She said.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
That's a great question. The midwives will hold babies this way,
that way, this way, and all that. And then she'd
explained about that that because I had my newborn baby
almost jump out of my arms with one of those reflexes,
which I freaked me out. But simple things like that
and the dad's raw. When I asked that question, the
dads were like, oh, yes, I'm looking forward to this.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
Plea.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Who do you think it's the most out of anti
natal classes.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
I think you're right in some ways. Is that you're
writing that women talk to other women. They do a
lot of research too. You know, there's Instagram, there's podcasts.
You know, you can get a lot of information about
this on the internet.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
And also their bodies are giving them a symptom of
what's happening about to happen. They're constantly reminded of it every.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
Day, every moment of every day.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Yes, how did you feel that yourself when you went
through that journey as well?
Speaker 3 (10:35):
Definitely weird being on the other side, that's for sure,
being a patient. I honestly it was so. I mean,
I had a reasonably good pregnancy, but I was like,
this is hard. This is tough work to be growing
a human being. Your hormones are crazy, But then you
have to be like a normal person at work and
like have a normal relationship and like clean your hand,
(10:55):
you know your stuff.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
I mean, how did it change your perspective as a
midwife through going through it as well as I.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
Just believe what women do, and I already was in
awe of what they do, but just just so overwhelming
that the changes that happen to your body and who
you are when you become a you know, the whole
process is quite overwhelming, and you do have to have
a lot of trust in the people who are looking
(11:26):
after you. So that's really important to have an LMC
that you like and trust, particularly around birth plans and
things like that, and then trusting them throughout the labor
process particularly.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
We'd love to take your calls, text, whatever, if you
if you want to join in the conversation. Eight hundred
and eighty ten eighty and the first question we've started is, well,
they're all tied together preparing for a birth. Should you
have a birth plan? And you know we're going to
have a bit more of a chat about what you
should actually plan for. Give us a call on eight
hundred eighty ten eighty and dads you can call out too,
(12:00):
by the way, I mean, I be interesting to see
whether we get a few calls from prospective dads or
not on us, because I think that's the perfect chance
you can sort of anonymously give us a call and
ask your ask your questions question. Let's go to our
first caller, Rob, did I.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
Here's it going good?
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Thanks?
Speaker 4 (12:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (12:20):
So we did a very interesting course it's called Calm Birth.
And my wife I didn't really want any chemicals. They
they didn't want any drugs, raby durals or guess. So
we went to a weekend course where they literally went
(12:44):
through what your body is going through and what you're
feeling with you know, the sensations of earning or actually
what's actually the mechanics of of of what your body's doing.
So and then talked about fear and pain and what
(13:04):
that both brain and fight and flight and so it
was like it was like a mechanics course.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
So we were we were taught.
Speaker 5 (13:16):
Everything which is sort of going on, so we didn't
really get frightened and break down. Yeah, and then also
if things did go wrong, Yes, you have listened to
the doctors and you've tried it.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
Okay, it's just it's just it's you.
Speaker 5 (13:32):
Know, listen to the professionals. But if you want to
try and go as natural as possible in the hospital.
This is this is the way you do it. And
we did a lot of method They did meditation, which
I don't normally really believe in, but it really worked.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Like it was it was incredible. Does it go according
to plan? It was great.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
It was when according to plan I had to.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (13:54):
They talked about the touch, so my touch on my
wife's back and sort of stroking and how that calms
her down, and uh, yeah it worked. We didn't do
have any maybe durals, No, guess I had a white
knuckles because my wife squeezed my hands for about four hours.
Speaker 4 (14:15):
And uh, but it was, yeah, it was, it was.
Speaker 5 (14:22):
It was really it was really cool. The second time
half an hour to the next baby, so we don't
have chance.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
So did you get a lot of who do you
I mean, I don't want to say who gets the
most out of it? But how much did you feel
you got out of that process going in and then
coming out of that planning process?
Speaker 4 (14:40):
Huge?
Speaker 5 (14:41):
Because you you can I think you got the day.
You can just feel like a passenger when you're there,
and literally because we I kind of understood everything. I
think it was two weekends. Actually it was two weekendicals
and we're not you know, we're not very sort of spiked,
a couple of true people, but we just wanted to
(15:01):
try and do it as as literally as possible.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
Did they give you some good practical tools and how
you could help, Yes, touch, touch with your thing.
Speaker 4 (15:12):
Listening, Yeah, yeah, listening being your your wife's ears and voice. Yeah,
So we went through, we went through scenarios of what
could happen or what things were being said, and Lydia,
my wife had said what she didn't want to happen,
and that's real necessary to I was the voice.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Yeah, so you're the advocate of her.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
It's funny.
Speaker 4 (15:34):
Yeah, yeah, it was a team.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Yeah, I foind it's a quite emotional listen to the
stuff because I remember ours and you realize how intense
I mean, it's such an most amazing time of your life.
You never forget, I mean, does it when you describe
that now? Robert, I don't know how long it was
it go for you, but you know it is.
Speaker 5 (15:52):
Years ago, and then the six years ago and one
and a half years ago when you're laying in bed
with her, you know, you're laying in bed in that
last section you're laying and you're sort of you're there together.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
And.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Yeah, thanks Rob, thanks for sharing that with us. It
is an amazing time, isn't it. I mean we went through,
you know, when there were some challenges, and I'm not
going to share too much because of my wife's privacy
and things, but I do just the thing that I
just remember thinking that people who were part of that
whole process, we just thought our midwives were just Christmas
because I don't know's I can see why the occupation
(16:31):
of being in a midwife you think, oh god, that
must be hard work sort of thing. But then you
see it the I don't want to sat the cold
face but for that one of a better expression. But
the moments, I mean, obviously you deal with some very
difficult situations as well, but a successful birth through and
the trials and tribulations, it's absolutely it's amazing.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
Oh yeah, and the journey you go through with these women,
particularly if you're an LMC, which means you follow them
through the whole way, you create such a wonderful relationship.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
In fact, we were with the hospital midwives, but we
went through a couple of shifts of them because it
was quite a long process. But that's actually just set
thing with Rob before about the role of the partner. Yes,
it is actually important because sometimes when the mum is
giving birth and she's just maxed out, and that that
(17:19):
support person's role is important because for the midwives as well,
isn't it Because you might be like, listen, this is
going the way it's going. We think this, you know,
but you draw the person and to help make that decision,
don't you.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
Yeah, And there's only you know, there's we are there
to give a lot of support, but there is only
so much what we can do, and so having a
partner there that can be that person is amazing. They somedthly.
They had a wonderful, like very connected, beautiful birth story.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
It's funny. The other memory I have, and we'll take
a break in a second, is we had the same
midwife at the hospital for the second time round for
the early stages, and it was very I mean, I
think it was funny because you know, you go into
the before you go into the birthing sweet and we've
gone for a walk I think around the winter gone
in the domain as I don't know how many expectant
(18:07):
couples have walked around up went the garden. But we
got back and I could and my wife was experiencing
a few more contractions and then she sort of was like, oh,
I'm feeling and I was thinking we better get back
to the hospital there and she had the question of
the epidural or something, and which she hadn't planned on
first time, but went with the second time. And she
(18:28):
was thinking, I probably will go with that this time.
But she was like, we're walking down the corridor, get
to the birthing sweet, because things were getting a bit
close and I and I said do you want to
actually because they have to prepare And I said, honey,
do you want to just want to make a call?
Do you want me to say to the midwife we
need to get that ready? And she says, oh, I
just make that decision when I get to the birthing sweet,
(18:49):
And the midwife, who was holding her hand, looked at
me and went shook her head light. We're not going
to have time for any of that. This is it
was all gone, and man, it was exciting. But anyway,
look we're going to come back with more calls. Eight
hundred and eighty ten. The birth plans and antenatal anti
natal classes as well how important they are, but what
(19:10):
also if you are doing a birth plan, what are
the things you should think about. I'm going to explore
that with Grace Strange, she is a midwife and founder
of Anti Natal Co. Will be back in just a moment.
News Talk z B twenty six past five. Welcome back
(19:51):
to the Weekend Collective. This is the Parents Squad. My
guest is Grace Strange, she's a midwife and founder of
Anton Natal Co. And we're talking about birth plans. Actually,
should you have a birth plane, what should you what
should you plan for when you do? But also antenatal
classes which part of the whole preparation and might light
my light sort of observation that I think it's the
(20:12):
dads who almost get the most out of those, But
that's just an observation. You give your thoughts about it
as well. On eight Andrew, Hello, oh there.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Just one quick question. If if I had best plan
on both children, everything international classes and I highly recommend those.
But if it all, if it all goes south in
the hospital, I mean, what what's comeback in New Zealand?
(20:49):
I mean this is overseas that my kids were born,
one in the UK, one in Spain, and and is
the acc work system work if it still go south?
Because I sued I sued the NHS in the UK,
(21:12):
all right, but I didn't see them. Yeah, okay?
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Was that because of a tragedy that unfolded?
Speaker 2 (21:17):
Andrew neh traasedy?
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Okay, okay, Well that's that's a loaded question, I think, Grace,
if I could put that in a context, is is it?
I guess it's the question of consent yea with patients
who may or mean that may not make decisions that
are in their best interests in a way because they're
(21:43):
tied up with what their expectations are, their judgments waning
because they're exhausted, and all that sort of thing. I
don't know, how do we how do we absorb Andrew's
question from you in a different country, just to managing
those difficult situations? And I guess that's It's all about
informed consent on things, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
It is about informed consent. Think The tricky thing too,
is that you do We talked about trusting your LMC
and the people that look after you to make the
right decisions for you, and so you know, having that
good relationship and trusting them is important, But there are
definitely you know, things that happen and things that unfold
(22:24):
really quickly, and maybe things that come out of left field,
or that the health professionals actually didn't pack up, you know,
like they had a human error.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Yeah, and that is hard. Yeah, I guess does it
highlight why I mean these are I can't remember everything
was an antenatal class a long time ago. But is
this why? I mean every level of preparedness, but anti
natal classes a useful because you discuss, you know, once
you get in. It's like, I mean, I can only
(22:56):
liken it to getting into a boxing ring. So I
think you might have a plan to knock your opponent out,
but they might get a few jabs in and you
might have a change of tactics.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
Yeah, definitely, I think being prepared and knowing all of
the things that potentially could go wrong. So you know,
assisted delivery, so of onto's forceps, what does that look like?
Those part of hemorrhages, what does that look like? What
is the process and stopping that? What if the baby
goes to.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
You know all those little Actually it's knowing about the
processes because if you were to say we're going to
do a forceps delivery and somebody has no idea what
that is, or of ontege delivery. If you don't know
what that is, that decision's really really hard because it's
way too confronting, and.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
It's that's that's not one you have a long time
to discuss. No, because generally they're doing that because your
baby's heart rate is crashing out, and so you need
to make a decision pretty quickly on what you're going
to do, so you don't have to obviously, it's if
you choose not to do that, then your other option
is to keep going, which is an option always, or
to have in a C section. What is it?
Speaker 1 (23:57):
What happens if somebody has is making the wrong decisions
and you're worried about their health. What are the ethics
of that when it comes to the medical team that
because there must be a point where if someone loose
me I don't know, if they lose consciousness, you're like, sorry,
we have to take it, take this overall.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
Yeah, Well, then the person who's there, like the next
of kin is the one who's been then mixed decision
is my understanding. But from a health professional's point of view,
like you're the woman is the most powerful person in
the room. So she it's her body, her baby, her
whole thing. So if she says no, then that's her decision.
(24:32):
Is so you just have to document that, you you know,
it gave her all the pros and cons and that
was the decision that she made.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
And Okay, it's full on, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
It's really full on? But I think you're right and
being prepared and going to a really good intenetal class
that you it doesn't just do like you know, vaginal
baths like the dream, you know, like actually going to
an internetal class that talks about all the other stuff,
not in like a scary confronting way, but in like
an educational way like this is what might happen, and
for both parents to be there so that when the
(25:04):
moms all, like know, emotional and exhausted in at least
you know, the dad or the partner knows what's going on,
has some kind of understanding and can kind of guide
or help or you know, that conversation along.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
How do you navigate? But when you are talking with
someone who maybe have it's managing expectations, so people have
unrealistic expectations. Do you try and guide them or do
you just try and give them more information so they
sort of go, oh, actually, what I've been thinking is
not going to necessarily be the ideal.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
Well, hopefully you would have had a lot of these
conversations prior.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
To the birth, That's what I mean in the course
of working out.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
Look, you can do all the guiding and recommending and
showing them the research that is, you know, proving your point,
but ultimately we have this wonderful system where it's your choice.
Which does it is positive for some people and put
some people really on a dicey edge between whether it's
(26:04):
going to go really well or not really well, and
that's the risk that they take.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
How does got some texts? More texts to get onto here? Oh,
just one that says birth plan was healthy baby, healthy mum,
and non non traumatized husband. I didn't care about anything else.
I think that third one's an optional extra.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
I can't guarantee that one even in the dream vaginal
birth if that's what you wanted, there is definitely still
but that is the best birth plan. Almost no plan
is the best plan because the people who go into birth,
like you know, maybe with their preferences that with no
specific way of how they want it to go. If
(26:47):
it does wear off that path, then they're the ones
who are less traumatized or feel less like they've failed
and have tend to have much better postpartum recovery and
thoughts around their look.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
We'll love to hear from you, whether it be mums
or dads, about birth plans and getting ready for that birth.
What are the lessons you learned, but also you know,
did you have a birth plan? Do you think the
birth plans are a good idea? Was what is the
most important thing? A birth plan or simply anti natal
classes A few questions on that eight hundred eighty ten
eighty or if you're an expectant mama and you've you know,
there is something on your mind, you thought you might
(27:20):
just run past Grace Grace Strange, she's midwife and founder
of Anti Natal Co. And we'll be back in just
a moment. Eight hundred eighty ten eighty text nine to nine,
two twenty three to six, Playing to Have to keeps Yes.
(27:47):
Welcome back to the show. I'm Tim Beveridge. This is
the Parents Squad and my guest is Grace Strange. She
is from Anti Natal Co. Antenatal dot cod on INZA
is actually her address if you want to check out
the work that Grace does. But of course Grace in
its title is obviously your Your specialty is anton adult classes. Sorry,
push that button there. What what are the let's just
(28:09):
get into the basics of what must or should's are
very strong should people be aware of or learn before
they actually are in the birthing suite? What's the most
important thing lessons that people you know be a minimum
you might get new mums. I don't know whether it
would be young mums who sort of think, oh they've
(28:30):
just roll with the punches but they don't think too
far ahead, or but what are the lessons that you
wish that every new expected mum would know before they
go into the birthing sweet?
Speaker 3 (28:41):
I think probably that what we've talked about already is
that knowing all of the things that potentially could happen,
and so with that it's really important to choose an
antennadal class. Well, so antienda classes are actually unregulated in
New Zealand. Really, yes, so you could start one if
(29:03):
you want to outrageous and we could go to your
end center class. Yeah, so you just need to be
really sure of the qualifications of the people that you're
going to your intinado class. Most of them.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Are I think I must we must have gone through
one through the Department of Health, hospital one or hospital ones.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
Yeah, so that those still exist, okay, and there aren't.
There has been a big shutdown of a lot of classes,
like the Parents Center was a big one and that
shutdown over the whole of New Zealand. And so yeah,
you just need to Lots of classes are taught by
educators who have had it, have done like a how
a many week course or a diploma of whatever, and
(29:44):
mostly just been to their own birds, which is great.
At least they've got some education. I would say gold
standard would be a midway who teaches your course.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
No, sorry, that actually kind of blows me away that
an antinatal class. It doesn't blow me away because nothing
surprises me. But that is somewhat surprising that because you
think that it's like if you go to physiotherapy that
the person who treats you is qualified in physiotherapy, like
you go to a dentist, and if you go to
anti enatal classes, to me, that sounds like something that
(30:20):
should be run by at the very minute, either a
nurse with experience in midwifery or a qualified midwife minimum.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
Yeah, no, not no, most I would say most aren't
taught by midwines. But that's not to say that they
don't know what they're talking about. I don't want to
bag because they do have came in a bit hot there, Sorry,
you do have some education. I mean, as I said,
gold standard is probably a midwife who you know.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
Okay, well, well, how would people identify an anti enadal course?
How would they work out that it's for them? Assuming
that you don't have to be a midwife, and maybe
someone might be fantastic at them, but they're not.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
I mean the best case, the best ways to find
as a personal recommendation from either somebody who's done an
internetal class with them or your LMC, so your midwife
or your obstetrician recommends them would be the best ways,
but also going on to their website or even calling
them and discussing what they actually teach. A lot of
(31:23):
Antiennet classes. One of the reasons I started INTANNA classes
was because I found that lots of them were came
at it with their own personal agenda, so they would
have their own opinion around to say epidurals or c sections,
and so would make women feel bad for wanting to
choose those or needing a c section, which is so
(31:45):
not helpful. My job as a midwife and an internet
educator is to educate you in all the ways you
might have your baby or the feed it, parent it,
and then empower you to make the decision best.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
What's the thing that surprises people most in and out
classes that they learn? Is there something that stands out?
You know, here it comes. I'm going to put in
part this bit of information. I'm going to look at
their faces.
Speaker 3 (32:04):
Go what I think sometimes what dilates? Yeah, So it's
not the outside of your vagina valvers. It's the cervix,
which is inside.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
And people people think, oh that that's like newsflash.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
They try not to like show it too much, but
it's like it, Oh really that that doesn't it's the inside.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Yeah, yeah, it's actually because in the background I've got
your website up. In the videos of it looks like
your classes. There's a lot, quite a lot of laughs
and it's quite fun. Is that how you?
Speaker 3 (32:41):
I would on the dads, I would say that almost ever,
like we get mostly reviews from dads who are like,
this was fantastic. But I would say, like, all the
mums go to it because it's the thing that they
want to do, need to do. They want to make
friends and you know, get some information. But as you
say it, it's the dads who come to it actually
dreading the day because they're like, I don't want to
be here. Really you wanted to be there? Yeah, you
(33:05):
did want to be there.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
I thought I should be there. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:10):
A lot of them are like, oh gosh, like a
whole day or a whole evening or whatever it is.
I'm sitting in this class talking about birth, It's going
to be so boring and so land. So I am like, like,
let's leeplet the dad's involved. As we talked about with
that guy before, like they just they have no idea,
and after them, they just feel helpless sitting there not
knowing what to do or how to help. So, you know,
(33:31):
getting them really involved, giving them lots of practical tools
and having a fun day, Like who wants to be
at a boring class all day?
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Actually do yours? How long did you? Because I remember
we went every Thursday or Wednesday evening for six to
eight weeks or something. But it's I wouldn't say it
became a social thing, but I didn't mind. Yeah, I mean,
to me, it was because I was on a very
very steep learning curve. Because I think maybe some dads
you sort of you know you're having a baby, but
(33:58):
but you know the days it's off in the distance
and it's still off in the distance, and it's the
ante us as I think are a challenge because this
thing's happening, and it's the slap in the face of like, hey, buddy,
you've got some planning to do, and I like to procrastinate.
Speaker 3 (34:14):
So for me that there's a challenge, it does become
a reality.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
Yeah, that's the one for the dead. Yeah. Okay, so
I mean, if so, how long do you?
Speaker 4 (34:24):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (34:24):
So we do I used to do We used to
run the weeks and esecutive, but we just found that
women were so tired at the end of their pregnancies
and busy, everyone's busy, and dads didn't want to come
week after week after week. So we do a one
day Saturday. Yep, we pack it all. It's a great day.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
Yeah, And is that why it's such a full class
as well? Because you're the videos. I'm looking you look
like it's there.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
They are.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
They're busy.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
Great class. Yeah, yep.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
So where we get to with birth plans? Do you
think a birth plan is important or is it more
important to do the antidal classes and just know what's
coming or I think both are? They are? What are
the decisions you need to have prepared for?
Speaker 3 (35:09):
I see? Okay, So you need to have some kind
of thoughts around what kind of birth you would like,
because if you wanted an elective cesarian that used to
be communicated reasonably early, you need to have some thoughts
around pain relief options. If you really don't want pain
(35:29):
relief options, then you need to communicate with your LMC
that they are not to offer it to you. Only
you need to you're the one who's going to ask
for it, okay, And you need to have some understanding
around the things that potentially could go wrong, that other pathways,
and what decisions you might make around those things. So
for some people, they don't want to have a FORESIPS
(35:51):
or a volunteer's birth, and they would rather go for
an emergency C section than do those things. Other people,
there are other way around having just some pre thoughts
around if you're you know, you're presented with these scenarios,
what are you going to do?
Speaker 1 (36:06):
Okay, hey, time flies, Grace, we're done. But if you
want to catch up with you, if you are an
expectant mom or dad and you want to find out
about the Anternet classes that Grace runs, it's anti atal
dot co dot NZ and we'll look forward to chatting
to you again sometime. Yeah. Thanks having me fantastic. We'll
be back in just a moment with Nick Biley to
talk about the upcoming game between Milana Pacifica and The
(36:28):
Crusader's News Talk set B eleven to six for more
from the weekend collective.
Speaker 4 (36:33):
Listen live to News Talk said B weekends from three pm,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talk
sib sounds like the radio back in ninety four, Servia
speak grew up two miss soul. It sounds like the radio.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Tag it down good time, So it up from Meline.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
We'll let a little benefit around a whole a country go. Yes,
welcome back. This is the Weekend Collective. I'm Tim Beverage.
And by the way, if you've missed any of the
previous hours, please go and check out our podcast. Look
for the Weekend Collective either on News Talk, saidb Dot,
court It and SID. We'd like to get the each
hour up pretty quickly once we've concluded it, and also
(00:53):
you can go to iHeartRadio and look for the Weekend Collective.
A couple of great hours with our panel with Lukedawn on,
Paul Spoonley and of course with our new guest camberltonon
from LJ. Hooker talking about alternative ways of getting in
the market. Now this is the Parents Squad and we
are joined by Well. I like to think it's her
first appearance on the show, because last time she made
(01:13):
her first appearance and I wasn't here, so it doesn't
really count. But it did count of course. And she's
a midwife. She's the founder of Anti Natal Anti Natal co.
And her name is Grace Strange. Gooday, Grace, how are
you doing?
Speaker 3 (01:26):
Hello?
Speaker 4 (01:26):
Good?
Speaker 3 (01:26):
Thank you, fun to meet you. Nice to have a
little friend in the studio at this time.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Yes, because last time I think the host was Jess Davidson.
She was in christ Church and you were sitting in
my seat. I know I was. It would have been
a bit weird, wouldn't it It was.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
I feel like I've been slightly demoted though, but also
premoted to be here in the room.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Well no, no, you are the star. Turn here. But
we want your calls on this on eight hundred eighty
ten eighty text nine to nine two. And there'll be
a range of people who come from an era where
birth plans were what the hell's a birth plan? But
most parents, many parents, modern parents will have been there.
They've carefully crafted a flawless birth plan. You've got the
soundtrack and the music. Oh my goodness, you didn't plan
(02:05):
this the perfect timeline, trying to maybe kidding yourselves into
believing it could go smoothly. But how much do birth
plans and reality tend to overlap? In fact, so we're
going to explore this. Grace and I have a chat
about the importance of a birth plan, but also the
approach you should take to it. Is your birth plan
something you think you need to adhere to religiously or
(02:27):
is it like it's good to have a birth plan
because you're thinking ahead and this is how it'll ideally go.
But as soon as you have your first contraction, everything
goes out the window and just let's get this thing born. Actually,
so e one hundred and eighty ten eighty you can
jump in anytime. We'd love to hear from you birth plans.
Now you have a sixteen month old, so it's within
(02:49):
recent memory for you. As a midwife, Did you have
a birth plan?
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Look, I am the least midwife, the midwifean you would know.
So most midwives would passionately love to have a home birth.
Would be there, Van I because I had like a
bit of a fertility journey to get pregnant. I actually
had an elect of cesarean. So I did have a
birth plan and it did all go perfectly to plan.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
I guess that's actually I guess that well, that is
the thing if you have an elect of cesarean. Then
you know when you're going to be induced or not induced.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
Have your baby?
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Yeah, have your baby? Sorry, thank you for them. Can
you believe I messed that one up? And just the
term it's called having a baby. But that's all sort
of taken. So birth plan is that's fairly simple. You
simply just want to pick the right time and being go.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Yeah, I mean unless you go into labor beforehand, in
which case you then get the option to continue with
your elective syrian which then turns into an emergency. Or
you can also choose to go try a vaginal birth
if you want to.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Actually, and you don't, you can share as much or
as little as you want about your own journey on this.
What would you have done if you had gone into
labor beforehand?
Speaker 3 (04:00):
I still would have had a sea section?
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Yeah? Yeah, how often do you see? What do you
what's the most interesting birth plan you have? Oh?
Speaker 3 (04:10):
That's I don't think they should be called birth plans. Yeah,
because a plan insinuates that you can actually make it happen,
Like your plan to have dinner with your friends, and
then you go and have dinner with your friends. You know,
it should be called birth preferences, which so at around
thirty six weeks, you have a meeting with your LMC
(04:31):
or the your midwife or your obstetrician where you talk
through all of your birth preferences. So, do you want
to have a spontaneous birth, do you not want to
get induced? Do you want to have an epidurrial? Do
you want to have a water birth? Do you want
to have vitamin knjics for your baby? Do you want
a breastfeed? Do you want to you know, all of
those things that they might like.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
My head spinning again and remembering the stuff.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
Yeah, the songs and things aren't really like you know,
the most important part.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Of people have that in their birth plan.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Yes, having a song, yes, definitely, Yeah, I know what
sort of song do they want? Anything?
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Sound of sperm whales and sort of waves crashing.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
Or like the most hard out rock music you have
ever heard in your whole life.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Oh so you could have had the same theme, I
ask you. Save you could have had motor Heads, the
Ace of Spades. I would imagine, given the if you
were having a vaginal birth and the contractions and the
excitement and the whole thing of I don't know if
there's that the right right word that you that heavy
metal would work quite well for that energy.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
It's quite inspirational. You know, you need a lot of
like passion and energy to push out of baby. So
you know, sperm Whales is probably not going to be
the best one.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
My my producer has given me permission to say she
had a full playlist.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
What was on it?
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Was it?
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Sperm Whales?
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Mostly country rock.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
I have to say country rock is high up there.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Yeah, a little bit of Tata.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
Yeah, Ta is definitely a key one.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Yeah. So actually, so birth plan you would say, well,
I'm guessing you would say that it's it's a nice
to have type of thing, and.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Yeah, I mean, look, the idea of it is to
communicate your wishes for birth, which I think is a
great thing and a great thing to communicate to the
people who are looking after you, so hopefully they can
make most, if not all, of those things happen for you.
But you also have to know that giving birth is
the day that is like the most out of control
day of your entire life. You're not like you're not
(06:30):
out of control that you don't have a lot of
hang on you.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Are well, actually, no, I know where're stumbling over this
because it's your body, and you know you have to
if you're having a vaginal birth, friends, you have to
listen to the instructions you give, but you have to
respond to them. That's your choice. But our experience was
just we went with everything. The midwife suggested, like, you
(06:55):
need to do this, now, we need to do this,
and we just we went with. We rode the wave
that was presented to us, and I say we my
wife the wave. I was probably supported shriveled up on
the corner anyway.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
But yes, I think you're out of control and that
you have no control of how it is going to
happen or how it is going to unfold. You are
in control, and that you get to make informed decisions. Yes,
every step of the way. So if the midwife had
suggested something to you that you didn't want to do,
you don't have to do it. Yeah, they can only
do things to you if you consent to it.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
So that can get pretty serious. Actually, when you've got
someone who's really needed, you need to maybe say, look,
I'm sorry, we need to have a cesarean somebody's like
I want to keep pushing in and the medical advices
and the I don't know how does that play out?
Speaker 3 (07:47):
Look Most most C sections, if you've gone into labor,
are called emergencies, but most of them aren't like life threatening,
so most of them you have a little bit of
time to be able to discuss the pros and cons,
not a long time. But this is where I think
antienat or classes come into play, because if you can
(08:09):
have some education around what happens in the C section,
what you know, what are the pros and cons of them,
what is it going to look like, what's the recovery?
At least if the option is presented to you, you
have some information to then make an informed decision around
whether you.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Want to do that or not. Because that's the other
thing we're going to talk about, and it's all part
of the same thing. It's all part of preparing for birth.
Because I've got a theory based on my limited experience.
But are We went to antiinadle classes for the first time.
Fumbly enough, we didn't think about it for the second
time because I think this sort of thing, you know,
that would be rare most people just over But I
(08:45):
sat there absorbing the information and I thought they were
I mean, I thought the antiddal classes. I was amazed.
Everyone should do them for goodness sake. If it's your
first child, I would advocate very strongly to do it,
but especially guys because my observation of it was the
women who were there, and it was majority of women.
(09:06):
Of course they it was like an The antiettle classes
was sort of a confirmation to them of what they
knew what was coming, because they've talked to friends who've
been through things, they've got mums and grandparents, and they
sort of know what's happening, and they're looking for confirmation,
whereas the guys sit there going what what happens? And
then that happens, and then and I asked the dumb
(09:28):
I deliberately. I specialized in dumb questions, but I didn't
mean it as a dumb question. But I did say
it like this. I said, I've got a question. I
think it's really I'm scared to ask it to the midwife.
And I said, how do you hold a baby?
Speaker 3 (09:42):
Yeah, that is a common question, and she said that
is She said.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
That's a great question. The midwives will hold babies this way,
that way, this way, and all that. And then she'd
explained about that that because I had my newborn baby
almost jump out of my arms with one of those reflexes,
which I freaked me out. But simple things like that
and the dad's raw. When I asked that question, the
dads were like, oh, yes, I'm looking forward to this.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
Plea.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Who do you think it's the most out of anti
natal classes.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
I think you're right in some ways. Is that you're
writing that women talk to other women. They do a
lot of research too. You know, there's Instagram, there's podcasts.
You know, you can get a lot of information about
this on the internet.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
And also their bodies are giving them a symptom of
what's happening about to happen. They're constantly reminded of it every.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
Day, every moment of every day.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Yes, how did you feel that yourself when you went
through that journey as well?
Speaker 3 (10:35):
Definitely weird being on the other side, that's for sure,
being a patient. I honestly it was so. I mean,
I had a reasonably good pregnancy, but I was like,
this is hard. This is tough work to be growing
a human being. Your hormones are crazy, But then you
have to be like a normal person at work and
like have a normal relationship and like clean your hand,
(10:55):
you know your stuff.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
I mean, how did it change your perspective as a
midwife through going through it as well as I.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
Just believe what women do, and I already was in
awe of what they do, but just just so overwhelming
that the changes that happen to your body and who
you are when you become a you know, the whole
process is quite overwhelming, and you do have to have
a lot of trust in the people who are looking
(11:26):
after you. So that's really important to have an LMC
that you like and trust, particularly around birth plans and
things like that, and then trusting them throughout the labor
process particularly.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
We'd love to take your calls, text, whatever, if you
if you want to join in the conversation. Eight hundred
and eighty ten eighty and the first question we've started is, well,
they're all tied together preparing for a birth. Should you
have a birth plan? And you know we're going to
have a bit more of a chat about what you
should actually plan for. Give us a call on eight
hundred eighty ten eighty and dads you can call out too,
(12:00):
by the way, I mean, I be interesting to see
whether we get a few calls from prospective dads or
not on us, because I think that's the perfect chance
you can sort of anonymously give us a call and
ask your ask your questions question. Let's go to our
first caller, Rob, did I.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
Here's it going good?
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Thanks?
Speaker 4 (12:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (12:20):
So we did a very interesting course it's called Calm Birth.
And my wife I didn't really want any chemicals. They
they didn't want any drugs, raby durals or guess. So
we went to a weekend course where they literally went
(12:44):
through what your body is going through and what you're
feeling with you know, the sensations of earning or actually
what's actually the mechanics of of of what your body's doing.
So and then talked about fear and pain and what
(13:04):
that both brain and fight and flight and so it
was like it was like a mechanics course.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
So we were we were taught.
Speaker 5 (13:16):
Everything which is sort of going on, so we didn't
really get frightened and break down. Yeah, and then also
if things did go wrong, Yes, you have listened to
the doctors and you've tried it.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
Okay, it's just it's just it's you.
Speaker 5 (13:32):
Know, listen to the professionals. But if you want to
try and go as natural as possible in the hospital.
This is this is the way you do it. And
we did a lot of method They did meditation, which
I don't normally really believe in, but it really worked.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Like it was it was incredible. Does it go according
to plan? It was great.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
It was when according to plan I had to.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (13:54):
They talked about the touch, so my touch on my
wife's back and sort of stroking and how that calms
her down, and uh, yeah it worked. We didn't do
have any maybe durals, No, guess I had a white
knuckles because my wife squeezed my hands for about four hours.
Speaker 4 (14:15):
And uh, but it was, yeah, it was, it was.
Speaker 5 (14:22):
It was really it was really cool. The second time
half an hour to the next baby, so we don't
have chance.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
So did you get a lot of who do you
I mean, I don't want to say who gets the
most out of it? But how much did you feel
you got out of that process going in and then
coming out of that planning process?
Speaker 4 (14:40):
Huge?
Speaker 5 (14:41):
Because you you can I think you got the day.
You can just feel like a passenger when you're there,
and literally because we I kind of understood everything. I
think it was two weekends. Actually it was two weekendicals
and we're not you know, we're not very sort of spiked,
a couple of true people, but we just wanted to
(15:01):
try and do it as as literally as possible.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
Did they give you some good practical tools and how
you could help, Yes, touch, touch with your thing.
Speaker 4 (15:12):
Listening, Yeah, yeah, listening being your your wife's ears and voice. Yeah,
So we went through, we went through scenarios of what
could happen or what things were being said, and Lydia,
my wife had said what she didn't want to happen,
and that's real necessary to I was the voice.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Yeah, so you're the advocate of her.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
It's funny.
Speaker 4 (15:34):
Yeah, yeah, it was a team.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Yeah, I foind it's a quite emotional listen to the
stuff because I remember ours and you realize how intense
I mean, it's such an most amazing time of your life.
You never forget, I mean, does it when you describe
that now? Robert, I don't know how long it was
it go for you, but you know it is.
Speaker 5 (15:52):
Years ago, and then the six years ago and one
and a half years ago when you're laying in bed
with her, you know, you're laying in bed in that
last section you're laying and you're sort of you're there together.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
And.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Yeah, thanks Rob, thanks for sharing that with us. It
is an amazing time, isn't it. I mean we went through,
you know, when there were some challenges, and I'm not
going to share too much because of my wife's privacy
and things, but I do just the thing that I
just remember thinking that people who were part of that
whole process, we just thought our midwives were just Christmas
because I don't know's I can see why the occupation
(16:31):
of being in a midwife you think, oh god, that
must be hard work sort of thing. But then you
see it the I don't want to sat the cold
face but for that one of a better expression. But
the moments, I mean, obviously you deal with some very
difficult situations as well, but a successful birth through and
the trials and tribulations, it's absolutely it's amazing.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
Oh yeah, and the journey you go through with these women,
particularly if you're an LMC, which means you follow them
through the whole way, you create such a wonderful relationship.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
In fact, we were with the hospital midwives, but we
went through a couple of shifts of them because it
was quite a long process. But that's actually just set
thing with Rob before about the role of the partner. Yes,
it is actually important because sometimes when the mum is
giving birth and she's just maxed out, and that that
(17:19):
support person's role is important because for the midwives as well,
isn't it Because you might be like, listen, this is
going the way it's going. We think this, you know,
but you draw the person and to help make that decision,
don't you.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
Yeah, And there's only you know, there's we are there
to give a lot of support, but there is only
so much what we can do, and so having a
partner there that can be that person is amazing. They somedthly.
They had a wonderful, like very connected, beautiful birth story.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
It's funny. The other memory I have, and we'll take
a break in a second, is we had the same
midwife at the hospital for the second time round for
the early stages, and it was very I mean, I
think it was funny because you know, you go into
the before you go into the birthing sweet and we've
gone for a walk I think around the winter gone
in the domain as I don't know how many expectant
(18:07):
couples have walked around up went the garden. But we
got back and I could and my wife was experiencing
a few more contractions and then she sort of was like, oh,
I'm feeling and I was thinking we better get back
to the hospital there and she had the question of
the epidural or something, and which she hadn't planned on
first time, but went with the second time. And she
(18:28):
was thinking, I probably will go with that this time.
But she was like, we're walking down the corridor, get
to the birthing sweet, because things were getting a bit
close and I and I said do you want to
actually because they have to prepare And I said, honey,
do you want to just want to make a call?
Do you want me to say to the midwife we
need to get that ready? And she says, oh, I
just make that decision when I get to the birthing sweet,
(18:49):
And the midwife, who was holding her hand, looked at
me and went shook her head light. We're not going
to have time for any of that. This is it
was all gone, and man, it was exciting. But anyway,
look we're going to come back with more calls. Eight
hundred and eighty ten. The birth plans and antenatal anti
natal classes as well how important they are, but what
(19:10):
also if you are doing a birth plan, what are
the things you should think about. I'm going to explore
that with Grace Strange, she is a midwife and founder
of Anti Natal Co. Will be back in just a moment.
News Talk z B twenty six past five. Welcome back
(19:51):
to the Weekend Collective. This is the Parents Squad. My
guest is Grace Strange, she's a midwife and founder of
Anton Natal Co. And we're talking about birth plans. Actually,
should you have a birth plane, what should you what
should you plan for when you do? But also antenatal
classes which part of the whole preparation and might light
my light sort of observation that I think it's the
(20:12):
dads who almost get the most out of those, But
that's just an observation. You give your thoughts about it
as well. On eight Andrew, Hello, oh there.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Just one quick question. If if I had best plan
on both children, everything international classes and I highly recommend those.
But if it all, if it all goes south in
the hospital, I mean, what what's comeback in New Zealand?
(20:49):
I mean this is overseas that my kids were born,
one in the UK, one in Spain, and and is
the acc work system work if it still go south?
Because I sued I sued the NHS in the UK,
(21:12):
all right, but I didn't see them. Yeah, okay?
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Was that because of a tragedy that unfolded?
Speaker 2 (21:17):
Andrew neh traasedy?
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Okay, okay, Well that's that's a loaded question, I think, Grace,
if I could put that in a context, is is it?
I guess it's the question of consent yea with patients
who may or mean that may not make decisions that
are in their best interests in a way because they're
(21:43):
tied up with what their expectations are, their judgments waning
because they're exhausted, and all that sort of thing. I
don't know, how do we how do we absorb Andrew's
question from you in a different country, just to managing
those difficult situations? And I guess that's It's all about
informed consent on things, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
It is about informed consent. Think The tricky thing too,
is that you do We talked about trusting your LMC
and the people that look after you to make the
right decisions for you, and so you know, having that
good relationship and trusting them is important, But there are
definitely you know, things that happen and things that unfold
(22:24):
really quickly, and maybe things that come out of left field,
or that the health professionals actually didn't pack up, you know,
like they had a human error.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Yeah, and that is hard. Yeah, I guess does it
highlight why I mean these are I can't remember everything
was an antenatal class a long time ago. But is
this why? I mean every level of preparedness, but anti
natal classes a useful because you discuss, you know, once
you get in. It's like, I mean, I can only
(22:56):
liken it to getting into a boxing ring. So I
think you might have a plan to knock your opponent out,
but they might get a few jabs in and you
might have a change of tactics.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
Yeah, definitely, I think being prepared and knowing all of
the things that potentially could go wrong. So you know,
assisted delivery, so of onto's forceps, what does that look like?
Those part of hemorrhages, what does that look like? What
is the process and stopping that? What if the baby
goes to.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
You know all those little Actually it's knowing about the
processes because if you were to say we're going to
do a forceps delivery and somebody has no idea what
that is, or of ontege delivery. If you don't know
what that is, that decision's really really hard because it's
way too confronting, and.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
It's that's that's not one you have a long time
to discuss. No, because generally they're doing that because your
baby's heart rate is crashing out, and so you need
to make a decision pretty quickly on what you're going
to do, so you don't have to obviously, it's if
you choose not to do that, then your other option
is to keep going, which is an option always, or
to have in a C section. What is it?
Speaker 1 (23:57):
What happens if somebody has is making the wrong decisions
and you're worried about their health. What are the ethics
of that when it comes to the medical team that
because there must be a point where if someone loose
me I don't know, if they lose consciousness, you're like, sorry,
we have to take it, take this overall.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
Yeah, Well, then the person who's there, like the next
of kin is the one who's been then mixed decision
is my understanding. But from a health professional's point of view,
like you're the woman is the most powerful person in
the room. So she it's her body, her baby, her
whole thing. So if she says no, then that's her decision.
(24:32):
Is so you just have to document that, you you know,
it gave her all the pros and cons and that
was the decision that she made.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
And Okay, it's full on, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
It's really full on? But I think you're right and
being prepared and going to a really good intenetal class
that you it doesn't just do like you know, vaginal
baths like the dream, you know, like actually going to
an internetal class that talks about all the other stuff,
not in like a scary confronting way, but in like
an educational way like this is what might happen, and
for both parents to be there so that when the
(25:04):
moms all, like know, emotional and exhausted in at least
you know, the dad or the partner knows what's going on,
has some kind of understanding and can kind of guide
or help or you know, that conversation along.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
How do you navigate? But when you are talking with
someone who maybe have it's managing expectations, so people have
unrealistic expectations. Do you try and guide them or do
you just try and give them more information so they
sort of go, oh, actually, what I've been thinking is
not going to necessarily be the ideal.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
Well, hopefully you would have had a lot of these
conversations prior.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
To the birth, That's what I mean in the course
of working out.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
Look, you can do all the guiding and recommending and
showing them the research that is, you know, proving your point,
but ultimately we have this wonderful system where it's your choice.
Which does it is positive for some people and put
some people really on a dicey edge between whether it's
(26:04):
going to go really well or not really well, and
that's the risk that they take.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
How does got some texts? More texts to get onto here? Oh,
just one that says birth plan was healthy baby, healthy mum,
and non non traumatized husband. I didn't care about anything else.
I think that third one's an optional extra.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
I can't guarantee that one even in the dream vaginal
birth if that's what you wanted, there is definitely still
but that is the best birth plan. Almost no plan
is the best plan because the people who go into birth,
like you know, maybe with their preferences that with no
specific way of how they want it to go. If
(26:47):
it does wear off that path, then they're the ones
who are less traumatized or feel less like they've failed
and have tend to have much better postpartum recovery and
thoughts around their look.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
We'll love to hear from you, whether it be mums
or dads, about birth plans and getting ready for that birth.
What are the lessons you learned, but also you know,
did you have a birth plan? Do you think the
birth plans are a good idea? Was what is the
most important thing? A birth plan or simply anti natal
classes A few questions on that eight hundred eighty ten
eighty or if you're an expectant mama and you've you know,
there is something on your mind, you thought you might
(27:20):
just run past Grace Grace Strange, she's midwife and founder
of Anti Natal Co. And we'll be back in just
a moment. Eight hundred eighty ten eighty text nine to nine,
two twenty three to six, Playing to Have to keeps Yes.
(27:47):
Welcome back to the show. I'm Tim Beveridge. This is
the Parents Squad and my guest is Grace Strange. She
is from Anti Natal Co. Antenatal dot cod on INZA
is actually her address if you want to check out
the work that Grace does. But of course Grace in
its title is obviously your Your specialty is anton adult classes. Sorry,
push that button there. What what are the let's just
(28:09):
get into the basics of what must or should's are
very strong should people be aware of or learn before
they actually are in the birthing suite? What's the most
important thing lessons that people you know be a minimum
you might get new mums. I don't know whether it
would be young mums who sort of think, oh they've
(28:30):
just roll with the punches but they don't think too
far ahead, or but what are the lessons that you
wish that every new expected mum would know before they
go into the birthing sweet?
Speaker 3 (28:41):
I think probably that what we've talked about already is
that knowing all of the things that potentially could happen,
and so with that it's really important to choose an
antennadal class. Well, so antienda classes are actually unregulated in
New Zealand. Really, yes, so you could start one if
(29:03):
you want to outrageous and we could go to your
end center class. Yeah, so you just need to be
really sure of the qualifications of the people that you're
going to your intinado class. Most of them.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Are I think I must we must have gone through
one through the Department of Health, hospital one or hospital ones.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
Yeah, so that those still exist, okay, and there aren't.
There has been a big shutdown of a lot of classes,
like the Parents Center was a big one and that
shutdown over the whole of New Zealand. And so yeah,
you just need to Lots of classes are taught by
educators who have had it, have done like a how
a many week course or a diploma of whatever, and
(29:44):
mostly just been to their own birds, which is great.
At least they've got some education. I would say gold
standard would be a midway who teaches your course.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
No, sorry, that actually kind of blows me away that
an antinatal class. It doesn't blow me away because nothing
surprises me. But that is somewhat surprising that because you
think that it's like if you go to physiotherapy that
the person who treats you is qualified in physiotherapy, like
you go to a dentist, and if you go to
anti enatal classes, to me, that sounds like something that
(30:20):
should be run by at the very minute, either a
nurse with experience in midwifery or a qualified midwife minimum.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
Yeah, no, not no, most I would say most aren't
taught by midwines. But that's not to say that they
don't know what they're talking about. I don't want to
bag because they do have came in a bit hot there, Sorry,
you do have some education. I mean, as I said,
gold standard is probably a midwife who you know.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
Okay, well, well, how would people identify an anti enadal course?
How would they work out that it's for them? Assuming
that you don't have to be a midwife, and maybe
someone might be fantastic at them, but they're not.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
I mean the best case, the best ways to find
as a personal recommendation from either somebody who's done an
internetal class with them or your LMC, so your midwife
or your obstetrician recommends them would be the best ways,
but also going on to their website or even calling
them and discussing what they actually teach. A lot of
(31:23):
Antiennet classes. One of the reasons I started INTANNA classes
was because I found that lots of them were came
at it with their own personal agenda, so they would
have their own opinion around to say epidurals or c sections,
and so would make women feel bad for wanting to
choose those or needing a c section, which is so
(31:45):
not helpful. My job as a midwife and an internet
educator is to educate you in all the ways you
might have your baby or the feed it, parent it,
and then empower you to make the decision best.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
What's the thing that surprises people most in and out
classes that they learn? Is there something that stands out?
You know, here it comes. I'm going to put in
part this bit of information. I'm going to look at
their faces.
Speaker 3 (32:04):
Go what I think sometimes what dilates? Yeah, So it's
not the outside of your vagina valvers. It's the cervix,
which is inside.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
And people people think, oh that that's like newsflash.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
They try not to like show it too much, but
it's like it, Oh really that that doesn't it's the inside.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Yeah, yeah, it's actually because in the background I've got
your website up. In the videos of it looks like
your classes. There's a lot, quite a lot of laughs
and it's quite fun. Is that how you?
Speaker 3 (32:41):
I would on the dads, I would say that almost ever,
like we get mostly reviews from dads who are like,
this was fantastic. But I would say, like, all the
mums go to it because it's the thing that they
want to do, need to do. They want to make
friends and you know, get some information. But as you
say it, it's the dads who come to it actually
dreading the day because they're like, I don't want to
be here. Really you wanted to be there? Yeah, you
(33:05):
did want to be there.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
I thought I should be there. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:10):
A lot of them are like, oh gosh, like a
whole day or a whole evening or whatever it is.
I'm sitting in this class talking about birth, It's going
to be so boring and so land. So I am like, like,
let's leeplet the dad's involved. As we talked about with
that guy before, like they just they have no idea,
and after them, they just feel helpless sitting there not
knowing what to do or how to help. So, you know,
(33:31):
getting them really involved, giving them lots of practical tools
and having a fun day, Like who wants to be
at a boring class all day?
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Actually do yours? How long did you? Because I remember
we went every Thursday or Wednesday evening for six to
eight weeks or something. But it's I wouldn't say it
became a social thing, but I didn't mind. Yeah, I mean,
to me, it was because I was on a very
very steep learning curve. Because I think maybe some dads
you sort of you know you're having a baby, but
(33:58):
but you know the days it's off in the distance
and it's still off in the distance, and it's the
ante us as I think are a challenge because this
thing's happening, and it's the slap in the face of like, hey, buddy,
you've got some planning to do, and I like to procrastinate.
Speaker 3 (34:14):
So for me that there's a challenge, it does become
a reality.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
Yeah, that's the one for the dead. Yeah. Okay, so
I mean, if so, how long do you?
Speaker 4 (34:24):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (34:24):
So we do I used to do We used to
run the weeks and esecutive, but we just found that
women were so tired at the end of their pregnancies
and busy, everyone's busy, and dads didn't want to come
week after week after week. So we do a one
day Saturday. Yep, we pack it all. It's a great day.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
Yeah, And is that why it's such a full class
as well? Because you're the videos. I'm looking you look
like it's there.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
They are.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
They're busy.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
Great class. Yeah, yep.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
So where we get to with birth plans? Do you
think a birth plan is important or is it more
important to do the antidal classes and just know what's
coming or I think both are? They are? What are
the decisions you need to have prepared for?
Speaker 3 (35:09):
I see? Okay, So you need to have some kind
of thoughts around what kind of birth you would like,
because if you wanted an elective cesarian that used to
be communicated reasonably early, you need to have some thoughts
around pain relief options. If you really don't want pain
(35:29):
relief options, then you need to communicate with your LMC
that they are not to offer it to you. Only
you need to you're the one who's going to ask
for it, okay, And you need to have some understanding
around the things that potentially could go wrong, that other pathways,
and what decisions you might make around those things. So
for some people, they don't want to have a FORESIPS
(35:51):
or a volunteer's birth, and they would rather go for
an emergency C section than do those things. Other people,
there are other way around having just some pre thoughts
around if you're you know, you're presented with these scenarios,
what are you going to do?
Speaker 1 (36:06):
Okay, hey, time flies, Grace, we're done. But if you
want to catch up with you, if you are an
expectant mom or dad and you want to find out
about the Anternet classes that Grace runs, it's anti atal
dot co dot NZ and we'll look forward to chatting
to you again sometime. Yeah. Thanks having me fantastic. We'll
be back in just a moment with Nick Biley to
talk about the upcoming game between Milana Pacifica and The
(36:28):
Crusader's News Talk set B eleven to six for more
from the weekend collective.
Speaker 4 (36:33):
Listen live to News Talk said B weekends from three pm,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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