July 9, 2020 • 52 mins
Amy has on Cassie Hammett{@casshamm} to help educate us on sex trafficking here in the United States. She shares who is at the highest risk and most susceptible to being targeted and groomed to become a victim of sex trafficking. Cassie shares the difference between human tracking and prostitution. She tells how working with the ‘demand side’ of the business is the hardest, but most redemptive part of her work. Amy & Cassie talk about how COVID, the internet and laws are currently affecting these victims.
To check out Cassie Hammett and her ministry:
To continue learning about sex trafficking check out the resources below...
Documentaries:
Nefarious: Merchant of Souls : CLICK HERE!
Very Young Girls: CLICK HERE!
Books:
CLICK HERE! to find the books listed below
Renting Lacy by Linda Smith
The White Umbrella: Walking with Survivors of Sex Trafficking
In Our Backyard by Nita Bells
Girls Like us by Rachel Lloyd
Website for Learning:
Polaris Project CLICK HERE!
(Episode 162)
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See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Okay, cass up a little food for yourself life ain't.
(00:18):
Oh it's pretty, but it's pretty beautiful than that A
little mouth you're kicking four. Happy Thursday, everybody. If you
hear birds chirping, that's because I'm recording this outside on
(00:39):
zoom with Chase. I'm in Colorado, trying to relax a
little bit. Chases in Kansas, and I brought him on
simply for the intro because he is who introduced me
to today's guest, Cassie Hannitt, who's the founder of the
Hub Ministry, which you know case, you know more about
(01:01):
her work than I do, although I've learned a lot
and I am super impressed with her and admire her
so much for everything she's involved in. So the Hub
Ministry does lots of things, and then there's this ministry
that lives within that that's called Purchased And she works
with women well and men. You'll hear in the episode
(01:25):
how she works with both sides of what's going on
in the sex trafficking world, human trafficking, and just I mean, Chase,
how did you even meet Cassie? So actually I know
her husband really well and worked with Brent at Numana,
an organization that I had worked with previously and it's
(01:48):
a it's a hunger relief organization. Yeah, and so anyways,
just quickly was fascinated with Cassie and the work she
was doing. And like when you hear people talk about
people that are like really out there changing the world,
like to meet Cassie is one of those people who
(02:09):
just confronts really tough things head on, and you're going
to hear about that today. And I think she also
is so good at educating people like me um and
I think she will you and the listeners today and
doing it in a way where you feel comfortable and
safe navigating those uncomfortable conversations. And so anyways, yeah, she's awesome. Well,
(02:34):
and I would just say super sensitive. If you have
kids that normally listen to my podcast, I just want
you to be aware of that, like little ears probably
may not need to take in what we're talking about.
So listen to this on your own time, and especially
if it's something you wanted to know more about, make
(02:55):
sure you just have time to actually take in some
of the things that you saying. And then I would
encourage you to go to the hub Ministry dot org
slash purchased after you listen to check out her ministry,
And we do talk about four topics in this realm,
(03:16):
but I don't I won't have my usual for things
theme music separating each thing because it didn't really to
me feel appropriate to break it up and be like, okay,
second thing, So you'll notice that that is missing. But
the four things that we're going to touch on are,
or that we do touch on, is you know, I
recently watched the Epstein story oh while I listened to
(03:40):
the podcast and watched the documentary on Netflix, and it
sparked a desire to learn more for sure. So it's
that's more of an educational conversation that we have. And
then the second thing we get into is sex trafficking
during a pandemic and what's been happening on happening with that.
(04:03):
And then the third thing is how how can we help,
like what can we be doing in our local communities
or where can we donate? Where can we support? And
then the fourth thing we get into is uh, just quickly,
if you have the desire again to learn more, you
can check out her website that Cassie does give some
(04:23):
some resources for you to check out if you want
to further educate yourself. So I hope you'll enjoy uh
today's podcast. That feels like a weird word to use,
but I say that in a sense that you feel
like you walk away knowing more. Um, if you've been
(04:44):
through anything like this, Uh, my heart is with you.
I also want to be sensor to the fact that
this could be a trigger for somebody that has experienced
any sort of um, sexual abuse. Uh, And so I
want to be aware. I want you to know I'm
aware of that. So I'm also saying maybe this isn't
(05:06):
an episode that you listen to depending on where you
are right now. Um. But yeah, I don't know. I
feel weird saying enjoy Chase, but I want people to
feel um and inspired by Cassie's work, and then if
they feel led to do more, that they can do
it That makes sense? Is enjoy? That was such the
(05:27):
wrong word to say, but it's you know, knowledge is power,
and we just want people to enjoy getting educated, you know,
like I think we have and and so I think
they're going to get that today for sure. Yeah. Okay, well,
then now that you know what's to come, Uh, here
is my interview with Cassie Hamnett, founder of the HUD Ministry.
(05:55):
So Cassie's on and before I hit record, we were
having a little conversation and I want to share with
you all something she said to me and that she
says to others, and it was, I want to give
you permission to not know, and that it's okay to
not know. And I told her I have wanted to
do this podcast for a while now, but it just
(06:17):
it hasn't worked out for various reasons, and so I'm
so excited it's finally happening. But also too, I think
some of it is I know that once I know
all of this information, I'm going to have to figure
out how what what my role in this is because
it's crazy to me that human trafficking and I feel
like a lot of our listeners will feel this way.
(06:38):
Is that it happens right here in the United States, right, Yeah?
But you really a mind blowing piece of information for
people to Y're not? Yeah, for sure? So then if
we not live in a state of denial, because once
you know that, I don't know how we could deny it.
But I have known it for quite some time, but
I still haven't dug in, and I think it's it's
(07:00):
a scary thing to know, and and then it's like, well,
it can be overwhelming of where to start, and I
don't even know what to do. You know, I'm excited
for your expertise. And I recently listened to the Epstein
podcast and watched the Netflix documentary, which I recommend the
podcast over watching documentary. But I guess it just depends
(07:22):
what you're into. In case anybody wants to see how
a limit example of it happening right here in America
and literally flying under the radar, including d A offices, FBI,
like you name it, police, like all these reports were
made for twenty years or so and it was going
(07:43):
on here. And I mean, that's an example of a
billionaire doing it. I know that. Actually that's like the
big case. Even though I've heard it from people, my
mind is just still blown that he would find these
young girls right here in America, like in Florida, and
then he would groom them, and then he would slide
them all over the world and they would have to
(08:03):
have sex with his friends in him right, and they
were teaching. So I watched it as well. I watched
the obsteine Um Netflix special It is very hard to watch,
just kind of a warning. I think it's important for
us to really wrap our mind around human trafficking in
the United States. Even if we don't feel like we
really want to do anything major to be a part
(08:25):
of it, it's still important to understand what it looks
like here because our perception of human trafficking is typically
like the movie Taken, which is like a great movie,
but it doesn't really actually reflect the reality of the US.
And so what can happen is if we have the
wrong kind of picture or definition of what human trafficking
(08:46):
is or isn't, then if it is happening in our
life or right in front of us or in our community,
will miss it because we have a definition that doesn't
fit the reality. So I think it's really important for
people to understand that just learning what it looks like
in the US is a big step towards more victims
being identified, because if we're just looking for being snatched
(09:07):
and grab off the street, being kidnapped and sold on
the black market, which that is happening globally, but that's
not the usually the reality here in the United States,
And so what happens is we're looking for a version
of it that isn't happening, and we're missing it when
it is happening in front of us. And I actually
think the Epstein Special why I think it's important. One,
(09:28):
A lot of people watched it, But I think it's
important because even though it is kind of an extreme example,
meaning that you know, it's a billionaire and involved all
of these kind of celebrities and all these things, that
documentary actually paints a really clear picture of some of
the things I'm going to talk about today. So it's
actually really good because it showed a really accurate portrayal of,
(09:50):
like you said, the process, the grooming, the recruitment, the
type of teenager that was targeted, and things like that.
So I think, um, as hard as that it is
to watch, think it's important. Yes, one, it is happening
in the United States to American citizens. I think that's
a big misconception. But again, how it's happening. Because I
always say, like the law, the definition isn't enough, right,
(10:12):
It's not enough for us to just know, well, legally,
this is what human trafficking means. Is really important for
us to know the how, the why, and the who right,
like who's being targeted and recruited? How are they being
recruited and why why are some population susceptible to being
recruited and things like that. So that documentary actually paints
a really clear picture of what it looks like here
(10:35):
in the United States, Like are there non wealthy suffickers?
It's mainly not the Epstein. It is happening at every
level of culture in every city. And actually, just refresh
my mind on stats, but every state has reports of
human trafficking. Every city deals with it. It's happening at
(10:57):
government levels all the way down to just regular or citizens.
I mean, it is happening among those that fall in
the category, um what that documentary portrayal. So I don't
want to say it isn't happening, because it is happening.
It really does exist at every level of society. But
the US in case UH is extreme in the sense
of who it involved in all of those things. But yeah,
(11:18):
the who, the how, and why are the most important
parts of the equation because you can lay that over
into every level of society. Um, the who, the how,
and the why is really the most important part of
the conversation. And so it's the who, the how, and
the why pertaining to the victims. The victims. Yeah, so
we always say starting with the who is the most
important because it keeps you reminded of the victim, It
(11:43):
keeps you victims centered. Right. Um, A lot of times,
what can happen in human trafficking or any kind of
justice work is we get really focused on stats and
figures and systems and all of those things, and we
can lose focus that these are people and whole lives,
you know, individuals with history and hurts and pains and
joys and all those things. So we always start with
(12:04):
the who. And another reason we start with the who
is because human trafficking also is this thing that a
lot of times people will hear it could be anyone, right,
Like we hear it could be your daughter, or it
could be it could be anyone. Human trafficking doesn't really
discriminate against populations and things like that. And while I
understand that, and I think to some degree that is true,
(12:25):
it's mostly a very clear, segmented list of risk factors
that make someone vulnerable. And why that's important is because
if we hear it could be anyone, our natural tendency
is to turn inward right and to go, well, then
I need to protect my kids and I need to
you know, protect the kids in my life. And we
get and we do need to do that. Obviously, I'm
(12:47):
a mom, right, So like our instinct would be with
every kid is susceptible or if every person, we can't
watch out for every person, So we turn into those
closest to us, and what happens is the ones that
it's most likely going to have into don't have people
guarding them. We teach that it's really important to know
who's the most vulnerable because then you can turn your
(13:08):
kind of antenna on for those risk factors and those kids,
or those women or those men, and because in society,
they're going to be the ones without someone watching and
without someone guarding their lives. And so we try to
teach who is at highest risk in the United States
because it's really important for us to know who they
are and what risk factors kind of make them more
(13:32):
vulnerable to being recruited and groomed. And so we start
with the who and what makes people most at risk.
Typically in the United States, one of the biggest risk
factors we see is poverty. While poverty isn't in of cases,
it's usually in the driver's state or somewhere in the
car when it comes to the story of trafficking in
(13:52):
someone's life. And the reason for that is that poverty
puts you in survival mode. We all kind of understand that,
Like you're pushed into survival mode, Um, you do things
differently than when you're not in survival mode, and a
lot of us haven't ever been in survival mode. When
you're not in survival mode, you make what do I
want to do? Choices? Where do I want to eat?
(14:12):
What do I want to wear? Where do I want
to work? Do I want to get married? Do I
not what? It's all kind of these want to so
But in survival mode it's have to What do I
have to do to find somewhere to sleep tonight or
to feed my kids? Um? What do I have to
do to protect myself? And have to unwant two? Decisions
are very different. And when you're put into the have
(14:34):
to side of life, especially for an extended amount of time,
your decisions reflect survival. And so what happens sometimes does
people blame their decisions right, like, well, you could you
ever x Y Z or it's your fault that you
did write X what fill in the blank. But the
truth is, survival mode tells you a very different story
(14:55):
and kind of puts these blinders on and you just
have to survive. And the truth is all of us
in survival mode would do things differently than we do
in our day to day life. And so poverty places,
especially if it's extended poverty or generational, it pushes you
into the heat of survival mode. We had a girl
in our program one time say survival is the worst
(15:16):
pimp she ever had, And that was just so profound
to me because what she's saying is other pimps, right
like humans who she had dealt with, They get tired
of you, they leave you, you escape from them, they
get arrested. There are potential ways out, but survival is
always tapping you on the shoulder. You have to survive.
And so she was just trying to communicate that was
(15:36):
actually the hardest thing for her to overcome with being
in survival mode and making decisions in that lane. So
poverty can push someone into a vulnerable situation, whether they're
adults or children. Another risk factorial, specifically for kids, is
kids who are runaways. A few years ago, a stat
came out in the US that said one in three
runaways will encounter someone related to human trafficking in the
(15:59):
first forty eight hours of being on the street, sort
of believing wherever their guardians are, just being in the
kind of in the front lines, kind of trend towards
it's it's more than one in three, and it's quicker
than forty because of social media and the Internet and
things like that. When a kid runs away from home,
what makes them super vulnerable. One is, a child is
(16:20):
always the most vulnerable person in every room, right, I mean,
whether they're healthy and thriving, or whether they're vulnerable in poverty.
Our kids are by far the most vulnerable people in
every room because they depend on adults for survival. And
so what happens when a child leaves, and usually it's
they're running from something or running to something. That's really
important for us to remember. When they leave the environment
(16:44):
where an adult is taking care of them and they
get out on the street, they're in the highest level
of survival mode because a child cannot do certain things
for themselves, even practically, they can't get a hotel room.
They're literally stranded, and they're created to be dependent, and
so they're subconsciously looking for someone to take care of
(17:04):
them because that's the way they're They're created that way, right,
And we always remind people you can't blame a kid
for being a kid, right, Like the kid runs away
from home, they're going to be subconsciously searching for who's
going to take care of them. And they also usually
don't have food, water, shelter, clothing, all those basic things.
So that actually in the US for kids is the
highest risk factor for human trafficking, and they're typically hand
(17:27):
in hand. A lot of the cases that we work
of children, they are runaways who have either runaway once
and it happened, or their habitual and that behavior. And
then another respector is the foster system. This is where
we get into some tricky waters because you and I
and listeners we would believe that the foster cure system
is amazing because it is families go through training and
(17:48):
open their homes to a kid that a lot of
time saves their life, right, I mean that home saves
their life and and it is an amazing thing that
it exists. But what we also have to understand and
it doesn't feel amazing to that child. For that child
who shows up at a foster home, they've experienced from
what research shows is the most significant trauma any person
(18:11):
can experience, even higher than like combat, war, is what
researchers and kind of counselors called the primal womb, which
is being removed from your biological parents. And man, that's
that's hard to I'm an adopted mamma, right, and I
know you are too, and that's a hard pill to swallow. Man, that,
like the best day of our life, was the worst
day of their right, I mean, just just that knowledge
(18:33):
of understanding that even though their life has been saved
and we can see the whole picture and see man,
foster care and adoptions, you know, God's kind of redemption
of brokenness. The truth is, for that child, it's typically
the worst day of their life because they've been removed
from everything that they know. And so what makes them
susceptible is typically they already have some of the other
(18:55):
risk factors going on, right, so parbaty. A lot of
times they've run away from home, they been in chaotic environment,
so there their brains are wired differently. But also they've
lost that that essential place of belonging. One of the
hooks of recruiters and pimps is offering a place where
someone belongs. And so because it has a lot of
(19:15):
the other risk factors, naturally it just creates kind of
a hotbed for recruitment and is one place that m
pimps will go to recruit children. So, which is really
hard to hear, and it's really hard to wrap your
mind around. Its why it's so important for everyone to
know the truth. Like if you're if you're listening and
you're a foster family, it's really important that you know
(19:38):
that that you know that if there are children in
your home that come from the backgrounds that they may
come from, that they are susceptible to things like human trafficking.
It's just it's hard to hear, but it's important. The
next one I'll kind of talk about is abuse, specifically
sexual abuse. So this one isn't like a standing alone
It doesn't always mean that human trafficking is going to happen. Obviously,
(20:00):
when you have a lot of these other risk factors
going on, and you have sexual abuse in someone's life,
whether it's once or over a period of time, no
matter no matter the circumstance sexual abuse. This is a
much deeper conversation, but it reshapes everything about who you are.
It changes the way your brain, like the chemistry and
your brain works. Um. It kind of jacks up your
(20:20):
idea of attachment and bonding and trust. It changes your
view of your body, of sex, of what it's used for.
And so that makes someone vulnerable in the sense that
to be recruited and groomed into human trafficking. If sexual
abuse is already going on in that child and that
woman's life, this is really hard to hear, but it's
(20:41):
it's kind of why a lot of the work has
already been done of getting them ready for what human
trafficking and the sex industry is. I had a friend
of girl in one of our programs telling her story
and she said, you know, the truth is like I
was already having sex with people I didn't want to
have sex with. So when the offer was just to
make money, it really wasn't that big of a jump
(21:02):
for me. And I think that's really important for us
to understand a lot of these other risk factors are
going on, and they're already having to have sex with
people that they don't want to have sex with and
that's already going on. Then to jump from that to
maybe even working for a pimp, right, which is not
sold to them as truth. The pimps not like, hey,
come work for me, I'm going to take all your
(21:23):
money and abuse you. Like no pimps telling the truth.
But if the only difference is that they make money,
or they have somewhere better to live, or they have
a better car to drive, that's not a hard jump
to me. So sexual abuse is definitely a risk factor.
And then lastly, drug abuse. If someone is already an addict,
whether they're an adult or a child, the recruiter or
a pimp or trafficker, those you can kind of use
(21:45):
those words interchangeably. All they have to do is provide
that and that is a very quick hook into someone's life.
That creates almost instant dependence because if I can supply
your drug of choice for free, I can get and
see that you're gonna need me multiple times a day,
and so it creates this almost instant dependence on a person.
(22:07):
And so those are kind of the top risk factors.
There's a lot more that exists, but those are the
most common ones that we see in our work. Both
in Louisiana and we're kind of some different cities over
the United States, and that that again not a percent
of the time high nineties present of the time you're
going to hear those risk factors in someone's story. We
always say, no one just wakes up and wants to
(22:30):
be a prostitute. No one just wakes up and it's
like I want to work for a pimp. It's just
not happening. They're influencing factors that are going on long
before they even recognize really what's going on. They've been
influenced for a long period of time, typically by some
of those risk factors. Um. So that's kind of how
we frame the who. Okay, so this is me curious
(22:56):
now about the just the definition the difference in a
girl that's being trafficked and then a prostitute, and then
a pimp and then a chassicker. So the federal laws,
like if you looked up the federal law and human trafficking,
it divides between there's a law that's in place for
(23:17):
adults and then there's a separate law that's in place
for children. So on the adult side, human trafficking exists
any time an individual is forced into sexual exploitation. There's
three words that the law uses, forced froader coercion. Okay,
so any time an individual is involved in commercial sexual exploitation, sorry,
(23:39):
we will go through all these words. Commercial meanings. Something
of value is exchanged. It doesn't have to be money.
Sexual exploitation is the prostitution side, right or the sex act.
So if money or anything of value is exchanged by
force broader coercion. So essentially, if an adult's consent is
removed by force broader courction, there are the three words
that the law uses to identify by that, then that
(24:01):
person is a victim of human trafficking. There's a lot
of questions around do they have to cross state lines,
do they have that All of that is kind of misconceptions.
If those three words can be proved that their consent
was removed by force for aut a coercion, then the
system can recognize them as a victim of human trafficking
and that case can go to the level of the
(24:22):
federal government. Now for adults, you can imagine that's really
tricky to prove, and often you're dealing with a rap sheet.
You know, you're dealing with the misconception. Well, you're already
a prostitute, so why are you now a victim? Right?
And so a lot of the work we do is
to advocate for adults in the system who truly are
(24:43):
victims of trafficking. And the truth about a lot of
the women that we serve is they've kind of gone
over the line of trafficking back and forth their whole lives,
their whole ever since they started prostitution. Maybe for a
stint they were working independently, but for a stint they
worked for a pimp, and a lot of time that
line is so fuzzy that even they don't understand that
(25:03):
that's what's going on. But the truth is there are
adults who are true victims of human trafficking and someone
has to advocate in the system for them because the
system can sometimes work against them. So it's it's kind
of tricky on the adult side, but that's the definition.
So forced fraud or coercion consent removed on the kid's side.
(25:23):
The good news is the law is actually really clear
and about ten years ago don't quote me on that
how many years ago it was, but an act was pasted.
It was the Victim's Protection Act. Basically what that says
is any child under the age of eighteen that is
involved in commercial sexual exploitation period one time, a hundred times,
whether they sell themselves a parent, a boyfriend, or a
(25:46):
pimp or whatever, every time, they are a victim of
human traff So if you hear the terms like child prostitution,
that's actually not an accurate definition. There are no child prostitutes.
They are always victims of human trafficking. And why that's
really good news is because when there is an undercover
operation or an arrest made and there's a child involved,
(26:08):
the law immediately protects them. So they cannot be criminally
charged with prostitution. Um, that cannot go on their record,
which is just really great news because even if a
child is looking at you saying I wanted to do this,
what we understand is they cannot consent. And so regardless
of their attitude towards health, regardless of them saying I
(26:31):
want to do this is the life I choose, the
law still protects them, which is just it's incredible news
for kids. And so instead of getting arrested, resources show
up right and and the ball starts rolling in their
life to get them access to the things that they
need um to give them an opportunity for restoration. So
that's the kind of divide of the law as far
(26:54):
as adults and children. Now, depending on who you ask,
what we say is every pimp a human trafficker. We
use those two words interchangeably because there's no difference between
what a pimp is doing and maybe what someone would
define a human trafficker is doing. I think sometimes we
think of a pimp in the terms of multiple girls
and all of those things, and that is true, but
(27:15):
a pimp doesn't have to have multiple girls. Um. What
what defines a human trafficker is that they are selling, buying,
or trading an individual in exchange for money against their consent,
and typically keeping the money. That's kind of where the
law looks for, like where the money go? Did the
victim get the money? If the victim didn't get the
money and someone else did and that person was engaged
(27:37):
in selling them or trading or involved in any way,
they're going to be labeled as a human trafficker. The
unfortunate truth is, even though the law protects children, and
even though the law states what human trafficking is or isn't,
that doesn't always mean that a case actually goes to
the federal level and the people all get prosecuted and
things like that. I mean, I think that would be
dream scenario, right, is that if it's happening, the people
(28:00):
who are doing it, you know, justice is served. But
like you saw on the Epstein thing, it's just not
that cut and dry. A big part of anti human
trafficking work is making sure the systems do what the
systems are designed to do when it comes to human trafficking,
and that's really hard work. So it's not super cut
and dry. But that's kind of the legal definition of it.
But again that doesn't really tell me the whole story.
(28:22):
But that at least tells you what the law states
about human trafficking. What about the traffickers, I mean, I
get that they range all walks of life. I'm curious,
is there a how, a lie and who? For the
men and the women? It doesn't just I want to
be clear to or the person that is heading up
(28:44):
these not always men for sure. I just told you
the law, um. But what we say about human trafficking
is when you boil it down, um, it is the
exploitation of human need. Okay, so we've all seen that
Maslow's triangle. You haven't, you can just google it. But
the hierarchy of need is what it's called, and it's
this fancy little triangle, and it has all these levels
(29:04):
and it basically paints a picture of what every human
being needs. Like you and I have it in common.
All the listeners, we all have a basic set of
needs in common, like we all have them. That's what
makes us all the same. And when those needs aren't met,
we are busy meeting those needs. Okay, we eat when
we're supposed to our basic needs of survival. We have friendships,
(29:25):
we have intimacy. You know, when you look at the triangle,
our life is fulfilled because those needs are met, and
when they're not, we can have them met, hopefully in health,
in ways that are healthy for us. Human trafficking. It's
not like pimps have that laminated in their pod in
their pockets, right Like when they pull out the triangle
and they're like, we're gonna follow this Maslow's hierarchy. But
(29:45):
the truth is it kind of feels like that. Like
when you hear the story unfolding of how pimp recruited someone,
it's like they work right up that human need scale.
They start with basic needs, they move up to security
in safety and the long and self esteem. So it's
the manipulation and exploitation of human need on the side
of the victim. But what's true is on the other
(30:07):
side of the conversation. Now, this is where people really
start to struggle, okay, because when you're looking at the
demand side, so human trafficking, the sex industry, it's it's
the supply and demand equation, the demand side being not
just pimps but buyers, okay, or what is commonly kind
of referred to as John's you've probably heard that before.
(30:29):
On the demand side of the equation, some of the
same things are true in the sense of the individuals
that are buying sex online, who are wrapped into selling
women or recruiting children. What you find is the same
level of brokenness and the same level of need that's
not being met um some of the same risk factors.
(30:50):
You see this deep, deep brokenness, and that's hard for
people to wrap them up. I think it's hard for
people to take any steps towards compassion towards demand side.
And actually one of the greatest challenges of my job,
but also one of the greatest gifts of my job
has actually been on the side of the demand. In
the last few years, we've put some really deep work
(31:13):
into offering buyers of sex and those who are participating
in the demand access to restoration. And it is one
the hardest thing I do, but to the most beautiful
picture of what's possible when anyone is offered access to restoration.
And the truth is, if we don't look at the
demand side and address it, the supply will always be there.
(31:36):
We will always be in this whole like fight. I mean,
you can't look at just one side. And so a
lot of times what people say is, well, let's look
at demand from a punitive angle, and it should be
right like our laws and a lot of states are
very antiquated. There's not a lot of punalties for those
who are buyers. Human traffickers very rarely get sentenced and
(31:57):
things like that. So the law has a lot of
there's a lot of work to be done. But punitive
is not the only thing that it requires for the
demand side to shift. It requires giving them access to
restoration from their deep trauma and their deep brokenness. Because
they're operating out of trauma, they're operating out of unhealed
part out of abuse of their own in their own lives.
(32:19):
And so I think it is important to understand that
it's a whole conversation and that we can't just draw
a circle around the demand side and say you're you're evil,
you're a monster, you're a part of the problem, or
you are the reason the problem exists, because that won't
fix anything. And so we try to take a holistic approach,
which again is kind of controversial because people just go,
(32:40):
how could you ever, you know, fill in the blank.
And so you're right, it's brokenness and vulnerability and need
on both sides of the equation, and on the demand side.
With pimps and human traffickers, a lot of times what
you hear is they're living in survival mode. They grew
up in environments that shape them, um they maybe ran
away from. I mean a lot of times it mirrors
(33:01):
what's happening on this side of the victim with what's
happening on this side of the trafficker, which it's just
it shatters your heart when you realize how much brickness
is involved for this stuff to even exist. So the
demand side is not just the trafficker it's the buyers.
You know, we could go super deep into this conversation,
but are highly sexualized culture, pornography, in the sex industry,
(33:23):
it's on a dancing, pimping. All of those things are
a part of the demand and if we don't address it,
it will always be there. Um, we will always be
kind of fighting this battle. What about sex trafficking during
the pandemic. So, because this is like brand new for
all of us and where our heads are all kind
of spinning on what's going on. And there's not a
(33:45):
whole lot of like statistics out there yet, but I
can just kind of share with you just from the
trenches what we see happening. It's really interesting. There's a
lot of factors at play with the global pandemic that
are impacting these populations. One is that those who were
already vulnerable before the pandemic are just more vulnerable now,
(34:05):
So it escalated vulnerability. Why is because if they maybe
had a job, they maybe have lost it. There's just
all these factors that the vulnerable populations in our communities
are now more vulnerable. Okay, And the same if you
think about it, if you start the equation with your
yourself we're now vulnerable in ways that we weren't before,
right because of this global pandemic. So if that's true
(34:27):
about us, then it's we're sure true about people who
are already vulnerable. So there's this escalation of vulnerability, which
anytime that happens in someone's life or in a community
is just a wide open door for someone to manipulate
that vulnerability. The other interesting thing is, just because of
the domino effect of what is happening, um, there's not
(34:47):
as many eyes on victims right now. So if you
think about it, all of the systems that typically are
in place are now closed to some degree. Right Foster
care workers are doing us in home visits, so there's
less eyes on kids. Law enforcement officers have been pulled
to different parts of their job or have been pulled
off of cases altogether because of COVID Night Team, And
(35:09):
so what's happening is there's just less eyes on on
vulnerable populations that are being recruited into human trafficking because
these systems are kind of at a stand still and
like they're still doing things, but the way we do
everything has changed, at least for right now. And so
what has happened is um, I know, like in the
communities we work in. In one in particular, all of
(35:30):
the vice like the police officers that were in like
what's called the vice squad that typically focus on human
trafficking are now pulled onto other things. So in that community,
unless someone gets the rare opportunity for a police officer
to pull someone over and find something out right, Like,
there's no one looking in that one particular community because
(35:50):
of COVID Night Team. So it's kind of shifted focuses.
Everyone's focused in different directions, and so that just takes
eyes off of these populations. There's just not as an
the people that are as vigilant. Again, we're all in
a state of vulnerability. And the other part of the
equation is we're all at home, and most prostitution happens online.
(36:11):
And so what we've seen, um and what there are
some stats about already, is the spike in porn use
during COVID nineteen, the spike in online solicitation. Because people
are home, they're not connected to people, which means they're
not getting those basic needs of connection and intimacy with friends.
(36:31):
And you know, we're isolated. And so when individuals are
isolated who struggle already with trauma or sexual addiction or
porn addiction. And now we're everything's online. And so as
prostitution you see, you see a spike in that. Yes,
when you say prostitutions online, like I have in my
mind what that means, which just in case anybody listening
(36:52):
to can elaborate on that. So over the last ten
to twelve years, as the world has gone online, prostitution followed.
And and so now, whereas you know, twelve years ago,
prostitution was kind of geographic in the sense that, um,
certain parts of town or certain hotels or you know,
we we kind of understand we see the image of
(37:14):
a woman on a street corner, right, that's kind of
what we think of. Um, well that is happening. That's
actually not how it's mostly happening. So now I'm sure
everyone has kind of heard the announcement a few years
ago about Backpage. Backpage dot Com was a website much
like Crinclists, but it was primarily used for prostitution, and
(37:35):
the government actually shut it down. But there are websites
that exist even with backpage being closed. Um, there are
tons of websites where either pimps or women who are
working independently can go and post ads much like what
you see on eBay Okay or on Craigslist something like that,
and they their ads advertising their services. And as crazy
(37:56):
as this sounds, one time we put two computers side
by side and went through the process of like booking
an appointment online with a woman and ordering a pizza,
and actually the process is almost exactly similar in that
you pay in you know, thirty to forty five minutes later,
your pizza shows up or the individual that you've purchased
(38:16):
online shows up. It's it's insane how accessible it is online.
And I guess for those using that, for some people,
they might be thinking, well, if someone personally put themselves
on there and they are of sound mind and an adult,
well then right they're the ones in themselves like that
might not seem as as bad as if thirty minutes
(38:40):
later someone knocks at your door and it's a sixteen
year old. But she may be there completely. That's not
where she wants to be. She didn't choose to be there.
She has been groomed to be there. And I guess
for someone that's using a space like that, or even
just in a hotel, or a certain neighborhood or street
or whatever. Don't know even if the adult that willingly
(39:04):
put themselves in that position when you go back and
think of what got them there, and just reminding people
just to yeah, keep the compassion and have the understanding
that someone didn't just wake up one day, and yeah,
that's actually a really important thing. You know. Most of
what we try to do when we do conversations like
(39:24):
you and I are having, really our goal is we're
trying to build compassion more than we're trying to do
stats and figures and numbers. And you're right, you know,
one of the things we teach at our John School
for men who have been arrested for solicitation is that
when when that woman shows up, you have no way
of knowing what her reality actually is. And um, we
(39:44):
participate in a lot of undercover operations our ministry does
with the FBI, and far more than half of the
time there's a pimp in the parking lot, and there
would be no way for you to know that. There
would be no I mean literally, she's not gonna tell
you that, She's not gonna hold up a sign saying
hell me, you know, I mean, that's that's the roll
of the dice that you take when you participate um
(40:05):
an online prostitution. But it's also important to remember, like
you said, that woman who shows up in her thirties,
that we want to say, well, she chose it, right,
like that's that's on her. The truth is she might
have chosen that particular decision that day, but if you
know her story, what you'll find out is one that
choice reflects a lifetime of trauma and abuse and experiences,
(40:29):
but also it reflects a lot of choices that she
didn't make. A lot of times you have adult women
who were abused sexual abused when they were a kids.
They didn't make that decision, and so there's decisions made
for individuals that set them on a path where their
decisions reflect ones that we would easily judge and say, well,
she wanted to do that. But we're not talking about
(40:50):
choice the way that you and I have the privilege
of making a choice. We're talking about choosing from It's
kind of like a pick your poison game, right, Like
it's choice maybe because consent hasn't been removed, but it's
choice through the filter of other choices that have been
made for them in a lifetime usually of trauma that
(41:11):
they are operating out of. And a lot of people
have heard this stab, but the average age in the
US of entry into prostitution is actually twelve years old.
And so what we teach in our classes for men
who have been arrested for solicitation is, yeah, she maybe
thirty standing in front of you, but she may have
started when she was thirteen years old. We have to
understand these things, right if if we're going to have
(41:33):
any kind of compassion for women in prostitution, because what
I find is people are really quick to have compassion
for victims, but it's not so easy when it's a
woman in prostitution or maybe a woman in exotic dancing,
right Like that segment of society is it's harder for
people to have compassion because they believe that that person
(41:54):
made that choice. But we do have to understand that
that choice was made on really shaky ground and not
from a place of complete health. Right a found a
solid sun foundation of their lives. A lot of times
they don't have all the information about situations. I mean,
they're just they're not making empowered choices. A lot of
the times, which people will argue that. But the truth days,
(42:14):
if you walk with victims of human trafficking, or if
you walk with women in prostitution, you just learn that
a lot of those choices that were made for them,
and a lot of those influencing factors cannot be pinned
on them as far as blame goes, and so those
choices reflect all of that, they don't just reflect them
in the momentum, which is just really it's really good
for us to build compassion in that way. So besides
(42:37):
educating ourselves and having that compassion, what can we do
to help. I'm sure every community I've listeners all over
so every local community looks a little bit different. But
do have a blanket way that you suggest people help
if they want to get their foot in the door
first would be, like you said, education, just watch documentary, ease,
(43:00):
read about things, and I'm gonna have some books that
can talk about in a second. But you know, it's
not just for those doing the work to get educated,
because the truth is, our culture is a big reason
why the problem exists, and culture is shaped by the
people in it. And so if we can learn and
shift our behaviors are meaning all of our behaviors, then
(43:20):
that's how a culture will shift. We say to people,
if you'll just learn and then take what you learn
into your circles of influence, right into your workplace, into
your friends, and two conversations where maybe in the past
something may come up and you not speak to it,
but now you can, right, you can help um change
perceptions and change people's perspectives of human trafficking and things
(43:43):
like that. That's actually a really big deal because if
a lot of us are doing that, and a lot
of us are helping shape perception and build compassion, that
eventually will make a huge difference in how our culture
as a whole views this whole conversation. So we say learn,
you can literally become a trafficking expert on Google. I
mean like you could just go to down and learn
(44:05):
all there is to know. There's a ton of books
out there, documentaries, so that's one thing that everyone can do.
And learning builds your compassion, but also learning turns your
intent on and a lot of us are in careers
are lines of work that we call frontlines. Okay, so
some of the listeners may be r workers or work
(44:27):
at the front desk of a hotel, um or in
some sort of UM, entertainment industry, or work at a school.
Those are all frontliners. And what we mean by that
is those are the people we depend to catch it.
We're not the only ones with eyes. We couldn't be right,
I mean, there's there's too few of us in the
anti trafficking work to actually catch every victim. And so
(44:47):
we say frontliners. If frontliners can just know what to
look for, who's the who I and how right, who's
most at risk UM, what it looks like when it's happening,
some of the risk factors and some of the symptoms.
If those front lenders can just know that and make
one phone call, they may part be a part of
saving someone's life that no one else would have seen.
So we say education for everyone. Find an organization that
(45:10):
you believe in UM, that you believe in the work
that they're doing, and give them money. Because here's the thing.
You think a lot of money to do this. If
you don't feel like you can, you know, jump in
and be a hands on part. There is something all
of us can give from our resources, So not just money,
but time. If you feel like this is something you
want to physically be a part of, find an organization
(45:31):
that has volunteer opportunities and jump in and be a
hands on part of that. So there's there's something all
of us can do well quickly. Since you touched on
money and donating, like you mentioned, it takes a lot
of money. So where is the money being sent on
at the hub for us specifically and a purchase. So
we have locations all over the United States, so this
(45:54):
would be true for any of our centers where we are. UM,
we are completely privately funded. What that means is all
of our funding comes from donors like you may, families, businesses, schools.
We choose. That's the choice that we make, is to
lean into our community to rally UM and be funded
that way. UM. That's a choice that we we make
(46:15):
because it gives everyone an invested part of what's going on,
and it also reminds people that it takes our whole
community to accomplish this right. So we are all privately
funded and the money goes to a wide array of things,
mainly directly into our programs. So I would say it's
mainly spent through the program lane or outreach. In some
of our locations, we have residential recovery homes for adults
(46:39):
where they live with us for nine to twelve months
and we cover their entire financial burden to be able
to do that, or whether that's in our programs for
children who are coming every day to our space engaging
in online education UM Trauma Informed classes. They have teachers
and volunteers and we get them access to medical care
(46:59):
and counsel ling and all of the things that are
missing from their lives. So a lot of funding goes
into that lane, and then funding goes into the demand
side of what we do, so our classes for individuals
that were arrested for solicitation, we also have some other
things that we're doing online to disrupt the buying of prostitution.
On the outreach side, every time we go on an
outreach in a community, we take stuff with us, right,
(47:22):
We take UM supplies and food and whatever that population
we're serving needs most, and so we spend some of
the funding UM just supplying those outreaches. And what's really
cool about what we see in our ministry is that
we're able to keep our budget pretty and lean because,
like I said earlier, we lean into the community to
(47:43):
come into the equation with us and provide the outreach
bags Another example is we just got a new residential
home in Louisiana and instead of buying everything for the inside,
instead we turned outward and said, hey, who wants to
sponsor a room or who wants to provide furniture? Every
ass is an open door for someone to engage. And
what we know to be true is if a woman
(48:05):
comes and donates a couch to our new residential program,
it comes and drops it off, her life is going
to be forever change because she's going to interact with
what's going on and now we've invited her. It was
as simple as her bringing a couch. While we do
have funding that goes into those things, our knee jerk
is we first ask for it for somewhere else. And
that's that's not like in a needy way. We just
(48:26):
know what is possible in someone's life if they get
to to fill a need, even if something as simple
as nonperishable food right or makeup for someone or a couch.
The Hub ministry dot org slash purchased is where people
can go to support this particular side the Hub. Y'all
involved in so many different things, Uh, so you're definitely
(48:50):
making an impact, not just in sex trafficking. But since
that's obviously what we're talking about right now, what are
some books or podcasts, suggestions or any of that that
you have for us. You already mentioned the Jeffrey Epstein documentary,
again hard to watch, but very very important. There's two
other documentaries that we typically point people to, and you
(49:12):
can find these. They play them on different venues online,
but you can google the name of them. I'm One
of them is called Very Young Girls, and it's a
documentary about the child trafficking side, and so you get
to follow some victims and really learn close up what
that lifestyle is like. And then the other one is
called Nefarious Merchant of Souls, which sounds so terrifying, um,
(49:34):
but it is a great documentary. It takes a look
at trafficking from a global perspective but also domestically here
in the United States, and it just tells the whole story.
It's it's it's a very good use of your time
as far as learning. So those would be the documentaries
that I would suggest. I have four books that I
want to kind of point people in the direction of.
One is called Renting Lacy. It's written um by a
(49:58):
woman who actually started shared Hope in or National, which
is a really huge nonprofit in the human trafficking world,
and it's about her life UM and her history. There's
one called The White Umbrella, which is more for people
wanting to truly kind of dig into the work of
working with victims. There's one called In Our Backyard by
Need of Bells, and then there's one called Girls Like
(50:19):
Us by Rachel Lloyd, and I love that book. Girls
Like Us is an incredible book. And then I would
say one of the best places to just find basic information,
stats and figures and just learn is the Polaris Project.
They host the National Trafficking Hotline, but their website is
phenomenal and it just has countless resources for learning about
(50:41):
just in a broader sense, human trafficking UM and how
it's impacting a bunch of different populations. So that would
be I don't have any podcasts, really, but those would
be the resources that I would point people to. Well, Cassie,
I appreciate you taking the time to talk with us,
and I hope that you'll come back on Yes, I'm
above too. It's so much to take in and we've
(51:01):
only just scratched the service here. So I hope that
you'll come back on and join us from time to
time to make sure that we keep this in the
forefront of people's minds. Yes, I would love to. That
would be awesome. I hope people will check out your ministry.
It's so amazing the hub ministry dot org slash purchased.
I mean really, when I said a minute ago that
(51:22):
y'all are involved in so much, you really really are.
This is just one side of what you do. So
I'd encourage people to also just check out the hub
ministry dot org because you can see even under the donate.
I loved how y'all had everything divided up and it
was done in such a thoughtful and cute way where
you can literally pick specifically where your money is going
(51:45):
to go, even toilet paper. Yes, yes, and there's no
question what we spend our money on. If you want
to know, you can just scroll through every picture that
we have and that is very true. And I'll talk
to you later on
Okay, cass up a little food for yourself life ain't.
(00:18):
Oh it's pretty, but it's pretty beautiful than that A
little mouth you're kicking four. Happy Thursday, everybody. If you
hear birds chirping, that's because I'm recording this outside on
(00:39):
zoom with Chase. I'm in Colorado, trying to relax a
little bit. Chases in Kansas, and I brought him on
simply for the intro because he is who introduced me
to today's guest, Cassie Hannitt, who's the founder of the
Hub Ministry, which you know case, you know more about
(01:01):
her work than I do, although I've learned a lot
and I am super impressed with her and admire her
so much for everything she's involved in. So the Hub
Ministry does lots of things, and then there's this ministry
that lives within that that's called Purchased And she works
with women well and men. You'll hear in the episode
(01:25):
how she works with both sides of what's going on
in the sex trafficking world, human trafficking, and just I mean, Chase,
how did you even meet Cassie? So actually I know
her husband really well and worked with Brent at Numana,
an organization that I had worked with previously and it's
(01:48):
a it's a hunger relief organization. Yeah, and so anyways,
just quickly was fascinated with Cassie and the work she
was doing. And like when you hear people talk about
people that are like really out there changing the world,
like to meet Cassie is one of those people who
(02:09):
just confronts really tough things head on, and you're going
to hear about that today. And I think she also
is so good at educating people like me um and
I think she will you and the listeners today and
doing it in a way where you feel comfortable and
safe navigating those uncomfortable conversations. And so anyways, yeah, she's awesome. Well,
(02:34):
and I would just say super sensitive. If you have
kids that normally listen to my podcast, I just want
you to be aware of that, like little ears probably
may not need to take in what we're talking about.
So listen to this on your own time, and especially
if it's something you wanted to know more about, make
(02:55):
sure you just have time to actually take in some
of the things that you saying. And then I would
encourage you to go to the hub Ministry dot org
slash purchased after you listen to check out her ministry,
And we do talk about four topics in this realm,
(03:16):
but I don't I won't have my usual for things
theme music separating each thing because it didn't really to
me feel appropriate to break it up and be like, okay,
second thing, So you'll notice that that is missing. But
the four things that we're going to touch on are,
or that we do touch on, is you know, I
recently watched the Epstein story oh while I listened to
(03:40):
the podcast and watched the documentary on Netflix, and it
sparked a desire to learn more for sure. So it's
that's more of an educational conversation that we have. And
then the second thing we get into is sex trafficking
during a pandemic and what's been happening on happening with that.
(04:03):
And then the third thing is how how can we help,
like what can we be doing in our local communities
or where can we donate? Where can we support? And
then the fourth thing we get into is uh, just quickly,
if you have the desire again to learn more, you
can check out her website that Cassie does give some
(04:23):
some resources for you to check out if you want
to further educate yourself. So I hope you'll enjoy uh
today's podcast. That feels like a weird word to use,
but I say that in a sense that you feel
like you walk away knowing more. Um, if you've been
(04:44):
through anything like this, Uh, my heart is with you.
I also want to be sensor to the fact that
this could be a trigger for somebody that has experienced
any sort of um, sexual abuse. Uh, And so I
want to be aware. I want you to know I'm
aware of that. So I'm also saying maybe this isn't
(05:06):
an episode that you listen to depending on where you
are right now. Um. But yeah, I don't know. I
feel weird saying enjoy Chase, but I want people to
feel um and inspired by Cassie's work, and then if
they feel led to do more, that they can do
it That makes sense? Is enjoy? That was such the
(05:27):
wrong word to say, but it's you know, knowledge is power,
and we just want people to enjoy getting educated, you know,
like I think we have and and so I think
they're going to get that today for sure. Yeah. Okay, well,
then now that you know what's to come, Uh, here
is my interview with Cassie Hamnett, founder of the HUD Ministry.
(05:55):
So Cassie's on and before I hit record, we were
having a little conversation and I want to share with
you all something she said to me and that she
says to others, and it was, I want to give
you permission to not know, and that it's okay to
not know. And I told her I have wanted to
do this podcast for a while now, but it just
(06:17):
it hasn't worked out for various reasons, and so I'm
so excited it's finally happening. But also too, I think
some of it is I know that once I know
all of this information, I'm going to have to figure
out how what what my role in this is because
it's crazy to me that human trafficking and I feel
like a lot of our listeners will feel this way.
(06:38):
Is that it happens right here in the United States, right, Yeah?
But you really a mind blowing piece of information for
people to Y're not? Yeah, for sure? So then if
we not live in a state of denial, because once
you know that, I don't know how we could deny it.
But I have known it for quite some time, but
I still haven't dug in, and I think it's it's
(07:00):
a scary thing to know, and and then it's like, well,
it can be overwhelming of where to start, and I
don't even know what to do. You know, I'm excited
for your expertise. And I recently listened to the Epstein
podcast and watched the Netflix documentary, which I recommend the
podcast over watching documentary. But I guess it just depends
(07:22):
what you're into. In case anybody wants to see how
a limit example of it happening right here in America
and literally flying under the radar, including d A offices, FBI,
like you name it, police, like all these reports were
made for twenty years or so and it was going
(07:43):
on here. And I mean, that's an example of a
billionaire doing it. I know that. Actually that's like the
big case. Even though I've heard it from people, my
mind is just still blown that he would find these
young girls right here in America, like in Florida, and
then he would groom them, and then he would slide
them all over the world and they would have to
(08:03):
have sex with his friends in him right, and they
were teaching. So I watched it as well. I watched
the obsteine Um Netflix special It is very hard to watch,
just kind of a warning. I think it's important for
us to really wrap our mind around human trafficking in
the United States. Even if we don't feel like we
really want to do anything major to be a part
(08:25):
of it, it's still important to understand what it looks
like here because our perception of human trafficking is typically
like the movie Taken, which is like a great movie,
but it doesn't really actually reflect the reality of the US.
And so what can happen is if we have the
wrong kind of picture or definition of what human trafficking
(08:46):
is or isn't, then if it is happening in our
life or right in front of us or in our community,
will miss it because we have a definition that doesn't
fit the reality. So I think it's really important for
people to understand that just learning what it looks like
in the US is a big step towards more victims
being identified, because if we're just looking for being snatched
(09:07):
and grab off the street, being kidnapped and sold on
the black market, which that is happening globally, but that's
not the usually the reality here in the United States,
And so what happens is we're looking for a version
of it that isn't happening, and we're missing it when
it is happening in front of us. And I actually
think the Epstein Special why I think it's important. One,
(09:28):
A lot of people watched it, But I think it's
important because even though it is kind of an extreme example,
meaning that you know, it's a billionaire and involved all
of these kind of celebrities and all these things, that
documentary actually paints a really clear picture of some of
the things I'm going to talk about today. So it's
actually really good because it showed a really accurate portrayal of,
(09:50):
like you said, the process, the grooming, the recruitment, the
type of teenager that was targeted, and things like that.
So I think, um, as hard as that it is
to watch, think it's important. Yes, one, it is happening
in the United States to American citizens. I think that's
a big misconception. But again, how it's happening. Because I
always say, like the law, the definition isn't enough, right,
(10:12):
It's not enough for us to just know, well, legally,
this is what human trafficking means. Is really important for
us to know the how, the why, and the who right,
like who's being targeted and recruited? How are they being
recruited and why why are some population susceptible to being
recruited and things like that. So that documentary actually paints
a really clear picture of what it looks like here
(10:35):
in the United States, Like are there non wealthy suffickers?
It's mainly not the Epstein. It is happening at every
level of culture in every city. And actually, just refresh
my mind on stats, but every state has reports of
human trafficking. Every city deals with it. It's happening at
(10:57):
government levels all the way down to just regular or citizens.
I mean, it is happening among those that fall in
the category, um what that documentary portrayal. So I don't
want to say it isn't happening, because it is happening.
It really does exist at every level of society. But
the US in case UH is extreme in the sense
of who it involved in all of those things. But yeah,
(11:18):
the who, the how, and why are the most important
parts of the equation because you can lay that over
into every level of society. Um, the who, the how,
and the why is really the most important part of
the conversation. And so it's the who, the how, and
the why pertaining to the victims. The victims. Yeah, so
we always say starting with the who is the most
important because it keeps you reminded of the victim, It
(11:43):
keeps you victims centered. Right. Um, A lot of times,
what can happen in human trafficking or any kind of
justice work is we get really focused on stats and
figures and systems and all of those things, and we
can lose focus that these are people and whole lives,
you know, individuals with history and hurts and pains and
joys and all those things. So we always start with
(12:04):
the who. And another reason we start with the who
is because human trafficking also is this thing that a
lot of times people will hear it could be anyone, right,
Like we hear it could be your daughter, or it
could be it could be anyone. Human trafficking doesn't really
discriminate against populations and things like that. And while I
understand that, and I think to some degree that is true,
(12:25):
it's mostly a very clear, segmented list of risk factors
that make someone vulnerable. And why that's important is because
if we hear it could be anyone, our natural tendency
is to turn inward right and to go, well, then
I need to protect my kids and I need to
you know, protect the kids in my life. And we
get and we do need to do that. Obviously, I'm
(12:47):
a mom, right, So like our instinct would be with
every kid is susceptible or if every person, we can't
watch out for every person, So we turn into those
closest to us, and what happens is the ones that
it's most likely going to have into don't have people
guarding them. We teach that it's really important to know
who's the most vulnerable because then you can turn your
(13:08):
kind of antenna on for those risk factors and those kids,
or those women or those men, and because in society,
they're going to be the ones without someone watching and
without someone guarding their lives. And so we try to
teach who is at highest risk in the United States
because it's really important for us to know who they
are and what risk factors kind of make them more
(13:32):
vulnerable to being recruited and groomed. And so we start
with the who and what makes people most at risk.
Typically in the United States, one of the biggest risk
factors we see is poverty. While poverty isn't in of cases,
it's usually in the driver's state or somewhere in the
car when it comes to the story of trafficking in
(13:52):
someone's life. And the reason for that is that poverty
puts you in survival mode. We all kind of understand that,
Like you're pushed into survival mode, Um, you do things
differently than when you're not in survival mode, and a
lot of us haven't ever been in survival mode. When
you're not in survival mode, you make what do I
want to do? Choices? Where do I want to eat?
(14:12):
What do I want to wear? Where do I want
to work? Do I want to get married? Do I
not what? It's all kind of these want to so
But in survival mode it's have to What do I
have to do to find somewhere to sleep tonight or
to feed my kids? Um? What do I have to
do to protect myself? And have to unwant two? Decisions
are very different. And when you're put into the have
(14:34):
to side of life, especially for an extended amount of time,
your decisions reflect survival. And so what happens sometimes does
people blame their decisions right, like, well, you could you
ever x Y Z or it's your fault that you
did write X what fill in the blank. But the
truth is, survival mode tells you a very different story
(14:55):
and kind of puts these blinders on and you just
have to survive. And the truth is all of us
in survival mode would do things differently than we do
in our day to day life. And so poverty places,
especially if it's extended poverty or generational, it pushes you
into the heat of survival mode. We had a girl
in our program one time say survival is the worst
(15:16):
pimp she ever had, And that was just so profound
to me because what she's saying is other pimps, right
like humans who she had dealt with, They get tired
of you, they leave you, you escape from them, they
get arrested. There are potential ways out, but survival is
always tapping you on the shoulder. You have to survive.
And so she was just trying to communicate that was
(15:36):
actually the hardest thing for her to overcome with being
in survival mode and making decisions in that lane. So
poverty can push someone into a vulnerable situation, whether they're
adults or children. Another risk factorial, specifically for kids, is
kids who are runaways. A few years ago, a stat
came out in the US that said one in three
runaways will encounter someone related to human trafficking in the
(15:59):
first forty eight hours of being on the street, sort
of believing wherever their guardians are, just being in the
kind of in the front lines, kind of trend towards
it's it's more than one in three, and it's quicker
than forty because of social media and the Internet and
things like that. When a kid runs away from home,
what makes them super vulnerable. One is, a child is
(16:20):
always the most vulnerable person in every room, right, I mean,
whether they're healthy and thriving, or whether they're vulnerable in poverty.
Our kids are by far the most vulnerable people in
every room because they depend on adults for survival. And
so what happens when a child leaves, and usually it's
they're running from something or running to something. That's really
important for us to remember. When they leave the environment
(16:44):
where an adult is taking care of them and they
get out on the street, they're in the highest level
of survival mode because a child cannot do certain things
for themselves, even practically, they can't get a hotel room.
They're literally stranded, and they're created to be dependent, and
so they're subconsciously looking for someone to take care of
(17:04):
them because that's the way they're They're created that way, right,
And we always remind people you can't blame a kid
for being a kid, right, Like the kid runs away
from home, they're going to be subconsciously searching for who's
going to take care of them. And they also usually
don't have food, water, shelter, clothing, all those basic things.
So that actually in the US for kids is the
highest risk factor for human trafficking, and they're typically hand
(17:27):
in hand. A lot of the cases that we work
of children, they are runaways who have either runaway once
and it happened, or their habitual and that behavior. And
then another respector is the foster system. This is where
we get into some tricky waters because you and I
and listeners we would believe that the foster cure system
is amazing because it is families go through training and
(17:48):
open their homes to a kid that a lot of
time saves their life, right, I mean that home saves
their life and and it is an amazing thing that
it exists. But what we also have to understand and
it doesn't feel amazing to that child. For that child
who shows up at a foster home, they've experienced from
what research shows is the most significant trauma any person
(18:11):
can experience, even higher than like combat, war, is what
researchers and kind of counselors called the primal womb, which
is being removed from your biological parents. And man, that's
that's hard to I'm an adopted mamma, right, and I
know you are too, and that's a hard pill to swallow. Man, that,
like the best day of our life, was the worst
day of their right, I mean, just just that knowledge
(18:33):
of understanding that even though their life has been saved
and we can see the whole picture and see man,
foster care and adoptions, you know, God's kind of redemption
of brokenness. The truth is, for that child, it's typically
the worst day of their life because they've been removed
from everything that they know. And so what makes them
susceptible is typically they already have some of the other
(18:55):
risk factors going on, right, so parbaty. A lot of
times they've run away from home, they been in chaotic environment,
so there their brains are wired differently. But also they've
lost that that essential place of belonging. One of the
hooks of recruiters and pimps is offering a place where
someone belongs. And so because it has a lot of
(19:15):
the other risk factors, naturally it just creates kind of
a hotbed for recruitment and is one place that m
pimps will go to recruit children. So, which is really
hard to hear, and it's really hard to wrap your
mind around. Its why it's so important for everyone to
know the truth. Like if you're if you're listening and
you're a foster family, it's really important that you know
(19:38):
that that you know that if there are children in
your home that come from the backgrounds that they may
come from, that they are susceptible to things like human trafficking.
It's just it's hard to hear, but it's important. The
next one I'll kind of talk about is abuse, specifically
sexual abuse. So this one isn't like a standing alone
It doesn't always mean that human trafficking is going to happen. Obviously,
(20:00):
when you have a lot of these other risk factors
going on, and you have sexual abuse in someone's life,
whether it's once or over a period of time, no
matter no matter the circumstance sexual abuse. This is a
much deeper conversation, but it reshapes everything about who you are.
It changes the way your brain, like the chemistry and
your brain works. Um. It kind of jacks up your
(20:20):
idea of attachment and bonding and trust. It changes your
view of your body, of sex, of what it's used for.
And so that makes someone vulnerable in the sense that
to be recruited and groomed into human trafficking. If sexual
abuse is already going on in that child and that
woman's life, this is really hard to hear, but it's
(20:41):
it's kind of why a lot of the work has
already been done of getting them ready for what human
trafficking and the sex industry is. I had a friend
of girl in one of our programs telling her story
and she said, you know, the truth is like I
was already having sex with people I didn't want to
have sex with. So when the offer was just to
make money, it really wasn't that big of a jump
(21:02):
for me. And I think that's really important for us
to understand a lot of these other risk factors are
going on, and they're already having to have sex with
people that they don't want to have sex with and
that's already going on. Then to jump from that to
maybe even working for a pimp, right, which is not
sold to them as truth. The pimps not like, hey,
come work for me, I'm going to take all your
(21:23):
money and abuse you. Like no pimps telling the truth.
But if the only difference is that they make money,
or they have somewhere better to live, or they have
a better car to drive, that's not a hard jump
to me. So sexual abuse is definitely a risk factor.
And then lastly, drug abuse. If someone is already an addict,
whether they're an adult or a child, the recruiter or
a pimp or trafficker, those you can kind of use
(21:45):
those words interchangeably. All they have to do is provide
that and that is a very quick hook into someone's life.
That creates almost instant dependence because if I can supply
your drug of choice for free, I can get and
see that you're gonna need me multiple times a day,
and so it creates this almost instant dependence on a person.
(22:07):
And so those are kind of the top risk factors.
There's a lot more that exists, but those are the
most common ones that we see in our work. Both
in Louisiana and we're kind of some different cities over
the United States, and that that again not a percent
of the time high nineties present of the time you're
going to hear those risk factors in someone's story. We
always say, no one just wakes up and wants to
(22:30):
be a prostitute. No one just wakes up and it's
like I want to work for a pimp. It's just
not happening. They're influencing factors that are going on long
before they even recognize really what's going on. They've been
influenced for a long period of time, typically by some
of those risk factors. Um. So that's kind of how
we frame the who. Okay, so this is me curious
(22:56):
now about the just the definition the difference in a
girl that's being trafficked and then a prostitute, and then
a pimp and then a chassicker. So the federal laws,
like if you looked up the federal law and human trafficking,
it divides between there's a law that's in place for
(23:17):
adults and then there's a separate law that's in place
for children. So on the adult side, human trafficking exists
any time an individual is forced into sexual exploitation. There's
three words that the law uses, forced froader coercion. Okay,
so any time an individual is involved in commercial sexual exploitation, sorry,
(23:39):
we will go through all these words. Commercial meanings. Something
of value is exchanged. It doesn't have to be money.
Sexual exploitation is the prostitution side, right or the sex act.
So if money or anything of value is exchanged by
force broader coercion. So essentially, if an adult's consent is
removed by force broader courction, there are the three words
that the law uses to identify by that, then that
(24:01):
person is a victim of human trafficking. There's a lot
of questions around do they have to cross state lines,
do they have that All of that is kind of misconceptions.
If those three words can be proved that their consent
was removed by force for aut a coercion, then the
system can recognize them as a victim of human trafficking
and that case can go to the level of the
(24:22):
federal government. Now for adults, you can imagine that's really
tricky to prove, and often you're dealing with a rap sheet.
You know, you're dealing with the misconception. Well, you're already
a prostitute, so why are you now a victim? Right?
And so a lot of the work we do is
to advocate for adults in the system who truly are
(24:43):
victims of trafficking. And the truth about a lot of
the women that we serve is they've kind of gone
over the line of trafficking back and forth their whole lives,
their whole ever since they started prostitution. Maybe for a
stint they were working independently, but for a stint they
worked for a pimp, and a lot of time that
line is so fuzzy that even they don't understand that
(25:03):
that's what's going on. But the truth is there are
adults who are true victims of human trafficking and someone
has to advocate in the system for them because the
system can sometimes work against them. So it's it's kind
of tricky on the adult side, but that's the definition.
So forced fraud or coercion consent removed on the kid's side.
(25:23):
The good news is the law is actually really clear
and about ten years ago don't quote me on that
how many years ago it was, but an act was pasted.
It was the Victim's Protection Act. Basically what that says
is any child under the age of eighteen that is
involved in commercial sexual exploitation period one time, a hundred times,
whether they sell themselves a parent, a boyfriend, or a
(25:46):
pimp or whatever, every time, they are a victim of
human traff So if you hear the terms like child prostitution,
that's actually not an accurate definition. There are no child prostitutes.
They are always victims of human trafficking. And why that's
really good news is because when there is an undercover
operation or an arrest made and there's a child involved,
(26:08):
the law immediately protects them. So they cannot be criminally
charged with prostitution. Um, that cannot go on their record,
which is just really great news because even if a
child is looking at you saying I wanted to do this,
what we understand is they cannot consent. And so regardless
of their attitude towards health, regardless of them saying I
(26:31):
want to do this is the life I choose, the
law still protects them, which is just it's incredible news
for kids. And so instead of getting arrested, resources show
up right and and the ball starts rolling in their
life to get them access to the things that they
need um to give them an opportunity for restoration. So
that's the kind of divide of the law as far
(26:54):
as adults and children. Now, depending on who you ask,
what we say is every pimp a human trafficker. We
use those two words interchangeably because there's no difference between
what a pimp is doing and maybe what someone would
define a human trafficker is doing. I think sometimes we
think of a pimp in the terms of multiple girls
and all of those things, and that is true, but
(27:15):
a pimp doesn't have to have multiple girls. Um. What
what defines a human trafficker is that they are selling, buying,
or trading an individual in exchange for money against their consent,
and typically keeping the money. That's kind of where the
law looks for, like where the money go? Did the
victim get the money? If the victim didn't get the
money and someone else did and that person was engaged
(27:37):
in selling them or trading or involved in any way,
they're going to be labeled as a human trafficker. The
unfortunate truth is, even though the law protects children, and
even though the law states what human trafficking is or isn't,
that doesn't always mean that a case actually goes to
the federal level and the people all get prosecuted and
things like that. I mean, I think that would be
dream scenario, right, is that if it's happening, the people
(28:00):
who are doing it, you know, justice is served. But
like you saw on the Epstein thing, it's just not
that cut and dry. A big part of anti human
trafficking work is making sure the systems do what the
systems are designed to do when it comes to human trafficking,
and that's really hard work. So it's not super cut
and dry. But that's kind of the legal definition of it.
But again that doesn't really tell me the whole story.
(28:22):
But that at least tells you what the law states
about human trafficking. What about the traffickers, I mean, I
get that they range all walks of life. I'm curious,
is there a how, a lie and who? For the
men and the women? It doesn't just I want to
be clear to or the person that is heading up
(28:44):
these not always men for sure. I just told you
the law, um. But what we say about human trafficking
is when you boil it down, um, it is the
exploitation of human need. Okay, so we've all seen that
Maslow's triangle. You haven't, you can just google it. But
the hierarchy of need is what it's called, and it's
this fancy little triangle, and it has all these levels
(29:04):
and it basically paints a picture of what every human
being needs. Like you and I have it in common.
All the listeners, we all have a basic set of
needs in common, like we all have them. That's what
makes us all the same. And when those needs aren't met,
we are busy meeting those needs. Okay, we eat when
we're supposed to our basic needs of survival. We have friendships,
(29:25):
we have intimacy. You know, when you look at the triangle,
our life is fulfilled because those needs are met, and
when they're not, we can have them met, hopefully in health,
in ways that are healthy for us. Human trafficking. It's
not like pimps have that laminated in their pod in
their pockets, right Like when they pull out the triangle
and they're like, we're gonna follow this Maslow's hierarchy. But
(29:45):
the truth is it kind of feels like that. Like
when you hear the story unfolding of how pimp recruited someone,
it's like they work right up that human need scale.
They start with basic needs, they move up to security
in safety and the long and self esteem. So it's
the manipulation and exploitation of human need on the side
of the victim. But what's true is on the other
(30:07):
side of the conversation. Now, this is where people really
start to struggle, okay, because when you're looking at the
demand side, so human trafficking, the sex industry, it's it's
the supply and demand equation, the demand side being not
just pimps but buyers, okay, or what is commonly kind
of referred to as John's you've probably heard that before.
(30:29):
On the demand side of the equation, some of the
same things are true in the sense of the individuals
that are buying sex online, who are wrapped into selling
women or recruiting children. What you find is the same
level of brokenness and the same level of need that's
not being met um some of the same risk factors.
(30:50):
You see this deep, deep brokenness, and that's hard for
people to wrap them up. I think it's hard for
people to take any steps towards compassion towards demand side.
And actually one of the greatest challenges of my job,
but also one of the greatest gifts of my job
has actually been on the side of the demand. In
the last few years, we've put some really deep work
(31:13):
into offering buyers of sex and those who are participating
in the demand access to restoration. And it is one
the hardest thing I do, but to the most beautiful
picture of what's possible when anyone is offered access to restoration.
And the truth is, if we don't look at the
demand side and address it, the supply will always be there.
(31:36):
We will always be in this whole like fight. I mean,
you can't look at just one side. And so a
lot of times what people say is, well, let's look
at demand from a punitive angle, and it should be
right like our laws and a lot of states are
very antiquated. There's not a lot of punalties for those
who are buyers. Human traffickers very rarely get sentenced and
(31:57):
things like that. So the law has a lot of
there's a lot of work to be done. But punitive
is not the only thing that it requires for the
demand side to shift. It requires giving them access to
restoration from their deep trauma and their deep brokenness. Because
they're operating out of trauma, they're operating out of unhealed
part out of abuse of their own in their own lives.
(32:19):
And so I think it is important to understand that
it's a whole conversation and that we can't just draw
a circle around the demand side and say you're you're evil,
you're a monster, you're a part of the problem, or
you are the reason the problem exists, because that won't
fix anything. And so we try to take a holistic approach,
which again is kind of controversial because people just go,
(32:40):
how could you ever, you know, fill in the blank.
And so you're right, it's brokenness and vulnerability and need
on both sides of the equation, and on the demand side.
With pimps and human traffickers, a lot of times what
you hear is they're living in survival mode. They grew
up in environments that shape them, um they maybe ran
away from. I mean a lot of times it mirrors
(33:01):
what's happening on this side of the victim with what's
happening on this side of the trafficker, which it's just
it shatters your heart when you realize how much brickness
is involved for this stuff to even exist. So the
demand side is not just the trafficker it's the buyers.
You know, we could go super deep into this conversation,
but are highly sexualized culture, pornography, in the sex industry,
(33:23):
it's on a dancing, pimping. All of those things are
a part of the demand and if we don't address it,
it will always be there. Um, we will always be
kind of fighting this battle. What about sex trafficking during
the pandemic. So, because this is like brand new for
all of us and where our heads are all kind
of spinning on what's going on. And there's not a
(33:45):
whole lot of like statistics out there yet, but I
can just kind of share with you just from the
trenches what we see happening. It's really interesting. There's a
lot of factors at play with the global pandemic that
are impacting these populations. One is that those who were
already vulnerable before the pandemic are just more vulnerable now,
(34:05):
So it escalated vulnerability. Why is because if they maybe
had a job, they maybe have lost it. There's just
all these factors that the vulnerable populations in our communities
are now more vulnerable. Okay, And the same if you
think about it, if you start the equation with your
yourself we're now vulnerable in ways that we weren't before,
right because of this global pandemic. So if that's true
(34:27):
about us, then it's we're sure true about people who
are already vulnerable. So there's this escalation of vulnerability, which
anytime that happens in someone's life or in a community
is just a wide open door for someone to manipulate
that vulnerability. The other interesting thing is, just because of
the domino effect of what is happening, um, there's not
(34:47):
as many eyes on victims right now. So if you
think about it, all of the systems that typically are
in place are now closed to some degree. Right Foster
care workers are doing us in home visits, so there's
less eyes on kids. Law enforcement officers have been pulled
to different parts of their job or have been pulled
off of cases altogether because of COVID Night Team, And
(35:09):
so what's happening is there's just less eyes on on
vulnerable populations that are being recruited into human trafficking because
these systems are kind of at a stand still and
like they're still doing things, but the way we do
everything has changed, at least for right now. And so
what has happened is um, I know, like in the
communities we work in. In one in particular, all of
(35:30):
the vice like the police officers that were in like
what's called the vice squad that typically focus on human
trafficking are now pulled onto other things. So in that community,
unless someone gets the rare opportunity for a police officer
to pull someone over and find something out right, Like,
there's no one looking in that one particular community because
(35:50):
of COVID Night Team. So it's kind of shifted focuses.
Everyone's focused in different directions, and so that just takes
eyes off of these populations. There's just not as an
the people that are as vigilant. Again, we're all in
a state of vulnerability. And the other part of the
equation is we're all at home, and most prostitution happens online.
(36:11):
And so what we've seen, um and what there are
some stats about already, is the spike in porn use
during COVID nineteen, the spike in online solicitation. Because people
are home, they're not connected to people, which means they're
not getting those basic needs of connection and intimacy with friends.
(36:31):
And you know, we're isolated. And so when individuals are
isolated who struggle already with trauma or sexual addiction or
porn addiction. And now we're everything's online. And so as
prostitution you see, you see a spike in that. Yes,
when you say prostitutions online, like I have in my
mind what that means, which just in case anybody listening
(36:52):
to can elaborate on that. So over the last ten
to twelve years, as the world has gone online, prostitution followed.
And and so now, whereas you know, twelve years ago,
prostitution was kind of geographic in the sense that, um,
certain parts of town or certain hotels or you know,
we we kind of understand we see the image of
(37:14):
a woman on a street corner, right, that's kind of
what we think of. Um, well that is happening. That's
actually not how it's mostly happening. So now I'm sure
everyone has kind of heard the announcement a few years
ago about Backpage. Backpage dot Com was a website much
like Crinclists, but it was primarily used for prostitution, and
(37:35):
the government actually shut it down. But there are websites
that exist even with backpage being closed. Um, there are
tons of websites where either pimps or women who are
working independently can go and post ads much like what
you see on eBay Okay or on Craigslist something like that,
and they their ads advertising their services. And as crazy
(37:56):
as this sounds, one time we put two computers side
by side and went through the process of like booking
an appointment online with a woman and ordering a pizza,
and actually the process is almost exactly similar in that
you pay in you know, thirty to forty five minutes later,
your pizza shows up or the individual that you've purchased
(38:16):
online shows up. It's it's insane how accessible it is online.
And I guess for those using that, for some people,
they might be thinking, well, if someone personally put themselves
on there and they are of sound mind and an adult,
well then right they're the ones in themselves like that
might not seem as as bad as if thirty minutes
(38:40):
later someone knocks at your door and it's a sixteen
year old. But she may be there completely. That's not
where she wants to be. She didn't choose to be there.
She has been groomed to be there. And I guess
for someone that's using a space like that, or even
just in a hotel, or a certain neighborhood or street
or whatever. Don't know even if the adult that willingly
(39:04):
put themselves in that position when you go back and
think of what got them there, and just reminding people
just to yeah, keep the compassion and have the understanding
that someone didn't just wake up one day, and yeah,
that's actually a really important thing. You know. Most of
what we try to do when we do conversations like
(39:24):
you and I are having, really our goal is we're
trying to build compassion more than we're trying to do
stats and figures and numbers. And you're right, you know,
one of the things we teach at our John School
for men who have been arrested for solicitation is that
when when that woman shows up, you have no way
of knowing what her reality actually is. And um, we
(39:44):
participate in a lot of undercover operations our ministry does
with the FBI, and far more than half of the
time there's a pimp in the parking lot, and there
would be no way for you to know that. There
would be no I mean literally, she's not gonna tell
you that, She's not gonna hold up a sign saying
hell me, you know, I mean, that's that's the roll
of the dice that you take when you participate um
(40:05):
an online prostitution. But it's also important to remember, like
you said, that woman who shows up in her thirties,
that we want to say, well, she chose it, right,
like that's that's on her. The truth is she might
have chosen that particular decision that day, but if you
know her story, what you'll find out is one that
choice reflects a lifetime of trauma and abuse and experiences,
(40:29):
but also it reflects a lot of choices that she
didn't make. A lot of times you have adult women
who were abused sexual abused when they were a kids.
They didn't make that decision, and so there's decisions made
for individuals that set them on a path where their
decisions reflect ones that we would easily judge and say, well,
she wanted to do that. But we're not talking about
(40:50):
choice the way that you and I have the privilege
of making a choice. We're talking about choosing from It's
kind of like a pick your poison game, right, Like
it's choice maybe because consent hasn't been removed, but it's
choice through the filter of other choices that have been
made for them in a lifetime usually of trauma that
(41:11):
they are operating out of. And a lot of people
have heard this stab, but the average age in the
US of entry into prostitution is actually twelve years old.
And so what we teach in our classes for men
who have been arrested for solicitation is, yeah, she maybe
thirty standing in front of you, but she may have
started when she was thirteen years old. We have to
understand these things, right if if we're going to have
(41:33):
any kind of compassion for women in prostitution, because what
I find is people are really quick to have compassion
for victims, but it's not so easy when it's a
woman in prostitution or maybe a woman in exotic dancing,
right Like that segment of society is it's harder for
people to have compassion because they believe that that person
(41:54):
made that choice. But we do have to understand that
that choice was made on really shaky ground and not
from a place of complete health. Right a found a
solid sun foundation of their lives. A lot of times
they don't have all the information about situations. I mean,
they're just they're not making empowered choices. A lot of
the times, which people will argue that. But the truth days,
(42:14):
if you walk with victims of human trafficking, or if
you walk with women in prostitution, you just learn that
a lot of those choices that were made for them,
and a lot of those influencing factors cannot be pinned
on them as far as blame goes, and so those
choices reflect all of that, they don't just reflect them
in the momentum, which is just really it's really good
for us to build compassion in that way. So besides
(42:37):
educating ourselves and having that compassion, what can we do
to help. I'm sure every community I've listeners all over
so every local community looks a little bit different. But
do have a blanket way that you suggest people help
if they want to get their foot in the door
first would be, like you said, education, just watch documentary, ease,
(43:00):
read about things, and I'm gonna have some books that
can talk about in a second. But you know, it's
not just for those doing the work to get educated,
because the truth is, our culture is a big reason
why the problem exists, and culture is shaped by the
people in it. And so if we can learn and
shift our behaviors are meaning all of our behaviors, then
(43:20):
that's how a culture will shift. We say to people,
if you'll just learn and then take what you learn
into your circles of influence, right into your workplace, into
your friends, and two conversations where maybe in the past
something may come up and you not speak to it,
but now you can, right, you can help um change
perceptions and change people's perspectives of human trafficking and things
(43:43):
like that. That's actually a really big deal because if
a lot of us are doing that, and a lot
of us are helping shape perception and build compassion, that
eventually will make a huge difference in how our culture
as a whole views this whole conversation. So we say learn,
you can literally become a trafficking expert on Google. I
mean like you could just go to down and learn
(44:05):
all there is to know. There's a ton of books
out there, documentaries, so that's one thing that everyone can do.
And learning builds your compassion, but also learning turns your
intent on and a lot of us are in careers
are lines of work that we call frontlines. Okay, so
some of the listeners may be r workers or work
(44:27):
at the front desk of a hotel, um or in
some sort of UM, entertainment industry, or work at a school.
Those are all frontliners. And what we mean by that
is those are the people we depend to catch it.
We're not the only ones with eyes. We couldn't be right,
I mean, there's there's too few of us in the
anti trafficking work to actually catch every victim. And so
(44:47):
we say frontliners. If frontliners can just know what to
look for, who's the who I and how right, who's
most at risk UM, what it looks like when it's happening,
some of the risk factors and some of the symptoms.
If those front lenders can just know that and make
one phone call, they may part be a part of
saving someone's life that no one else would have seen.
So we say education for everyone. Find an organization that
(45:10):
you believe in UM, that you believe in the work
that they're doing, and give them money. Because here's the thing.
You think a lot of money to do this. If
you don't feel like you can, you know, jump in
and be a hands on part. There is something all
of us can give from our resources, So not just money,
but time. If you feel like this is something you
want to physically be a part of, find an organization
(45:31):
that has volunteer opportunities and jump in and be a
hands on part of that. So there's there's something all
of us can do well quickly. Since you touched on
money and donating, like you mentioned, it takes a lot
of money. So where is the money being sent on
at the hub for us specifically and a purchase. So
we have locations all over the United States, so this
(45:54):
would be true for any of our centers where we are. UM,
we are completely privately funded. What that means is all
of our funding comes from donors like you may, families, businesses, schools.
We choose. That's the choice that we make, is to
lean into our community to rally UM and be funded
that way. UM. That's a choice that we we make
(46:15):
because it gives everyone an invested part of what's going on,
and it also reminds people that it takes our whole
community to accomplish this right. So we are all privately
funded and the money goes to a wide array of things,
mainly directly into our programs. So I would say it's
mainly spent through the program lane or outreach. In some
of our locations, we have residential recovery homes for adults
(46:39):
where they live with us for nine to twelve months
and we cover their entire financial burden to be able
to do that, or whether that's in our programs for
children who are coming every day to our space engaging
in online education UM Trauma Informed classes. They have teachers
and volunteers and we get them access to medical care
(46:59):
and counsel ling and all of the things that are
missing from their lives. So a lot of funding goes
into that lane, and then funding goes into the demand
side of what we do, so our classes for individuals
that were arrested for solicitation, we also have some other
things that we're doing online to disrupt the buying of prostitution.
On the outreach side, every time we go on an
outreach in a community, we take stuff with us, right,
(47:22):
We take UM supplies and food and whatever that population
we're serving needs most, and so we spend some of
the funding UM just supplying those outreaches. And what's really
cool about what we see in our ministry is that
we're able to keep our budget pretty and lean because,
like I said earlier, we lean into the community to
(47:43):
come into the equation with us and provide the outreach
bags Another example is we just got a new residential
home in Louisiana and instead of buying everything for the inside,
instead we turned outward and said, hey, who wants to
sponsor a room or who wants to provide furniture? Every
ass is an open door for someone to engage. And
what we know to be true is if a woman
(48:05):
comes and donates a couch to our new residential program,
it comes and drops it off, her life is going
to be forever change because she's going to interact with
what's going on and now we've invited her. It was
as simple as her bringing a couch. While we do
have funding that goes into those things, our knee jerk
is we first ask for it for somewhere else. And
that's that's not like in a needy way. We just
(48:26):
know what is possible in someone's life if they get
to to fill a need, even if something as simple
as nonperishable food right or makeup for someone or a couch.
The Hub ministry dot org slash purchased is where people
can go to support this particular side the Hub. Y'all
involved in so many different things, Uh, so you're definitely
(48:50):
making an impact, not just in sex trafficking. But since
that's obviously what we're talking about right now, what are
some books or podcasts, suggestions or any of that that
you have for us. You already mentioned the Jeffrey Epstein documentary,
again hard to watch, but very very important. There's two
other documentaries that we typically point people to, and you
(49:12):
can find these. They play them on different venues online,
but you can google the name of them. I'm One
of them is called Very Young Girls, and it's a
documentary about the child trafficking side, and so you get
to follow some victims and really learn close up what
that lifestyle is like. And then the other one is
called Nefarious Merchant of Souls, which sounds so terrifying, um,
(49:34):
but it is a great documentary. It takes a look
at trafficking from a global perspective but also domestically here
in the United States, and it just tells the whole story.
It's it's it's a very good use of your time
as far as learning. So those would be the documentaries
that I would suggest. I have four books that I
want to kind of point people in the direction of.
One is called Renting Lacy. It's written um by a
(49:58):
woman who actually started shared Hope in or National, which
is a really huge nonprofit in the human trafficking world,
and it's about her life UM and her history. There's
one called The White Umbrella, which is more for people
wanting to truly kind of dig into the work of
working with victims. There's one called In Our Backyard by
Need of Bells, and then there's one called Girls Like
(50:19):
Us by Rachel Lloyd, and I love that book. Girls
Like Us is an incredible book. And then I would
say one of the best places to just find basic information,
stats and figures and just learn is the Polaris Project.
They host the National Trafficking Hotline, but their website is
phenomenal and it just has countless resources for learning about
(50:41):
just in a broader sense, human trafficking UM and how
it's impacting a bunch of different populations. So that would
be I don't have any podcasts, really, but those would
be the resources that I would point people to. Well, Cassie,
I appreciate you taking the time to talk with us,
and I hope that you'll come back on Yes, I'm
above too. It's so much to take in and we've
(51:01):
only just scratched the service here. So I hope that
you'll come back on and join us from time to
time to make sure that we keep this in the
forefront of people's minds. Yes, I would love to. That
would be awesome. I hope people will check out your ministry.
It's so amazing the hub ministry dot org slash purchased.
I mean really, when I said a minute ago that
(51:22):
y'all are involved in so much, you really really are.
This is just one side of what you do. So
I'd encourage people to also just check out the hub
ministry dot org because you can see even under the donate.
I loved how y'all had everything divided up and it
was done in such a thoughtful and cute way where
you can literally pick specifically where your money is going
(51:45):
to go, even toilet paper. Yes, yes, and there's no
question what we spend our money on. If you want
to know, you can just scroll through every picture that
we have and that is very true. And I'll talk
to you later on
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