March 16, 2025 • 41 mins
Is it worth working after the age of 65? Or is it more of a need than a choice?
Martin Hawes joins The Weekend Collective to discuss the finances of retirement.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talk,
said brm.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Back the timescu you acas, it's it's fat.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
You guys, Welcome back to the Weekend Collective. I'm Tim Beverage.
By the way, if you've missed any of the previous hours,
we had a fascinating chat about trade and tariffs. I
know that sort of sounds fairly dry when I say
it like that, but we had Brad Olsen and all
of a Heart which join us for discussion around those
issues on Politics Central. You can go back and check
(00:59):
our podcast look for the Weekend Collective on Iheartradiot news Talk,
saidb dot co dot n Z. And last out Dr
John talking about pain relief among other things, and health
check up milestones. But right now it is time for
the smart money. And my guest he's finally finished that
well I think he finished it a while ago, but
(01:19):
it's all out now, and Martin Hawes is with us.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
Martin, Hello, Yeah, Hi there, Tom, thank you.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
What's so? Is the book actually out?
Speaker 4 (01:27):
I think it is. It's out any day. It will
have been out this last week or the coming week.
I think it was the twelfth or something like something
like that, so it must be out now.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
It must be out. It's not very hard sell Martin,
nor I think it's out. Did you have a did
you have a launch?
Speaker 4 (01:46):
No, not not really, because they don't tend to do that.
You know, they do with some box but not with
a lot of books. And you know, I'm the publishers
are in I'm in christ. Huge's pretty hard to put
gooll together and so no, it just goes into the
into the bookshops and I always do a bit of publicity.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
Yeah, well here we are we talking about it. But
actually I don't think you took my Did I give
you some advice on a potential title for it? Or
do we discuss that? But anyway, you've gone with retirement ready.
Speaker 4 (02:20):
Yes, it's not my call, it's the publisher's call, so
I can I can pass that one over. But it's
not a bad it's not a bad title because the
book's quite biographical. It's got quite a lot of me,
and in fact, I apologized early on to say there's
a lot of eye me, my mind and so forth
right through the book, because I'm really giving the story
(02:43):
that I did when I left Queenstown and moved to Chice,
huge about five six years ago. And when you have
a major disruption in your life, you meant to have
a good look at your finances and I did that,
but at the same time, I wanted to make myself
ready for a retirement. So should that happen, I don't
intend to retire. I intend to keep carry on working.
(03:04):
But you're only you know, a certain nature, and as
good as your last stoctor's visit or the last bit
of a mistake you make in a seminar or something
like that. So I will probably be retired at some sometime.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
We're going to talk about that a little bit about
working longer, but before we do, in fact we're going
to talk, we're going to explore the idea about you know,
sixty five and and actually the financial impact of working
a bit longer and how much of a difference that
can make, because of course, as soon as you stop working,
you're eating into your savings and every year that you're
able to continue earning. But I actually just wanted to
ask you, as a financial author who's written, Okay, how
(03:43):
many books is at twenty three?
Speaker 4 (03:44):
Now, twenty four?
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Now, oh twenty four?
Speaker 4 (03:49):
Countless for one now is launch?
Speaker 3 (03:52):
But I would have said, knowing a little bit about
your martin that that if anyone was going to be
a retirement ready, before you asked yourself that question, I
would have thought, of course you were at ready, but
what did you Were there things that, even as someone
who's a financial author and someone who's spent a career
talking about keeping your finances in order and being prepared
(04:15):
for paying off your mortgage and investing and all that
sort of thing, was there something that you thought, Oh, actually,
now I come to think of it, even though I've
lived at life doing this stuff, there are a couple
of things on your to do list that you needed
to put in.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
It was just that I did that bic shift. After
twenty years living in Queensdowne, I moved to christ Church
and I had at the same time a few disruptions
to my life, and my situation became quite different, and
I therefore thought I needed to go through one at
a time and then at the same time just to
set everything up so that I could very quickly retire
(04:50):
if I wanted to. It would really be a matter
of calling the people who managed my investments and saying,
could you give me a payment of this amount Every fortnight.
I could do it virtually, instant instant, and you know,
the book's name is Retirement Ready. But it was really
(05:12):
a major review of my own finances, everything from the
family trust to the well to enduring powers of attorney,
to health insurance to my investments, and I brought some
pretty big changes to some of them. One of the
really big ones was investment. After forty five years of
(05:32):
managing my own investment, I decided I readily hand over
my money to somebody else and have them investment invested
for me. So there are a whole bunch of things
like that. Health insurance is another one. We'll probably talk
about that later because it's something that's on a lot
of older people's minds, because health insurance is starting.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
To get thosive the more you need it. The absolutely
cruel iron of it all, Yes, by the way I
had when you had it, used to make your own
investment decisions, and then you handed it over to someone
else to do it, who did the better job? Were
you better? Or once you handed to them you're like, oh,
why didn't I do this earlier?
Speaker 4 (06:12):
I actually think they are doing a better job. And
the reason for that was because it's the it's the
old thing, the black the cobbler's family is the poorest shot.
So the cobbler makes shoes for other people, but doesn't
really make them from it for her own own family.
And I would look after other people's money or give
(06:35):
people advice on their money without really looking after my
own money. And the other thing I noticed that it's
for soth far who looks after my money then, and
they are ruthless when it comes to selling. You know,
if they've got a profit there, they take it. If
there's something that's not performing, they sell up. And I don't.
(07:00):
I tend to get attached to investments and hang on
and hang on and hang on, and you know, I
watch it go up and then I want to come
back down again and find myself back in the same place.
So I've got some deficiencies. Even I've looked after my money,
and even though I've written about people who get emotionally
attached to investments, I find myself doing it myself.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
Well, So human nature, isn't it just so instinct?
Speaker 4 (07:25):
I think that I have measured it, but it would
be it would be quite difficult com measure. But I
think they're getting they're probably getting better turns, they would
certainly have lower volatility, you know what's also with less risk.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
I also wonder whether that with the increasingly high speed
at which so much information can be available on a
multitude investments all at once, the speed that information is
available means that you need to have a huge amount
of sort of processing power in a way to be
able to assimilate all that stuff whereases, and that that
(08:01):
plays into the hands of people who are doing it
twenty four to seven on it our scale, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
Yeah, They're sitting in front of their screens all day
every day, whereas I am not need more because I'm
not giving financial advice. But I might be your way
doing a seminar, or I might be away in France
climbing or something like that. They are there, and when
the individual one individual is not there, there's somebody else
who's looking at it. So and I think that twenty
(08:29):
four to seven all in, you're either all in or
you're all out. And I was sort of I was
messing in the middle, to be honest.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
So it sounds like you set yourself up quite a
to do list, really, did you. We surprised at how
much it took from sort of managing people's money and
your own money to actually deciding you were retirement. Reading it,
I mean, how how much work was involved in getting
yourself sort of sorted out?
Speaker 4 (08:57):
Not so much work, more decisions because once you've decided
that somebody else is going to look after the money
that you know, the the execution of that is really
a simple phone call and it all happens. But what
did surprise me was the number of things I had
to make decisions on. And I made those decisions over
(09:20):
probably a couple of years. So I didn't put a
side a day or a week or something like that
and go through it. I just kind of did it
as they arose and as they look really necessary. You know,
one of the things I did was wind up the
family trust. Now I didn't wind it up immediately. I
waited to the end of the financial year to do that.
So there's and you know, I mean, it doesn't have
(09:44):
to be done together, but it doesn't need to be
done I think that's that's the important thing.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
You know.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
The retirement's a major developmental stage in life. It comes
at a time when we're not necessarily terribly good at change,
but it there's a major developmental and that in itself
is a good time to have a good look at
your overall find and figure out a new strategy. In
some areas, what was the biggest what was it?
Speaker 3 (10:10):
Okay, what was the toughest or the most challenging decision
for you to make? Or maybe the top two the
hardest two or three.
Speaker 4 (10:17):
I think the investments would be want to let go
your baby? It's like let go my baby forty five
years you know, going back to the old days of
of telephoning a broker and saying, what do you think
about doing this? And then putting out their tip sheets
and so forth? That was that was Yeah, letting go
(10:38):
the baby was a really big, really big one.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
I mean a bit decision you'd feel good about though
if you saw their performance and when I hang on
them and I should have done I should have done
this ten years ago.
Speaker 4 (10:49):
Well, I should have done it twenty years ago. I
probably should have done it forty years ago.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
Actually, but.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
Because I don't think it would have been the worse.
I think at once, you know, net off their fees
and so forth, and your net off my time. I
don't I don't think that the well, I think returns
would have been better to be honest.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
Look, we love your cause, by the way, on and
how retirement ready are you? But in particular I want
to explore and this with you on eight hundred and
eighty ten eighty, but also of course with Martin, because
one of the questions I've got is it came off
It came off the back of a colleague who retired,
who works on the technical side of things. Here it
ends heed me and I'll keep his identity secret because
(11:31):
not secret for any other reason other just as privacy.
But when he resigned after a significant length of time
in broadcasting, I sort of said goodbye, and I used
to bump into him in the wee small hours when
he was working. And I went away and I came back,
and all of a sudden, I said, I found myself
saying a low to him again. I was like, what Hello.
Then I thought to himself, hell on, haven't you retired?
(11:52):
And he said yeah. I said, what are you doing?
He says, I'm doing three days a week, and he
just gone home and went well. I think he realized
he still had more to give. But the question that
came out of it is is financially that can make a.
It can make a massive difference every year you work,
doesn't it? Yes? What's your take on all that?
Speaker 4 (12:14):
Yeah, it really does. I'll give you a couple of numbers.
If you go back to nineteen eighty seven, which I
think the first time is the these records were taken,
fifteen percent, one five percent of sixty five to sixty
nine year olds were working, So fifteen percent. Going back
to twenty seven. If you go back to twenty twenty five,
(12:35):
just back to twenty twenty four, forty eight percent of
people age sixty five to sixty nine are working. So
it's almost now now, that's right, So now almost most
people are working in that in that five year age backup.
So that's a stunning change over that period of time,
(12:56):
and it does make him The real point of the
question is doesn't make a big difference to financially, Yes,
it does. It does be because the old time, the
old days of people putting their money in the banking
and living off the interest, or putting it into government
stock and living off on the interest, they're gone. Instead,
those who are well advised put into a diversified portfolio
(13:20):
and then they make a standard fortnightly or monthly or
even annual draw down of a certain amount, and when
they do that, they're spending not just the returns they're getting,
but a bit of the capital as well, and that
means that the capital is gradually running down. So the
race is on between them.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
Yeah, exactly through it before you pass away, basically.
Speaker 4 (13:47):
Yeah, yeah, and there's a whole you know, this is
a very difficult area that actuaries argue about so and
so on, but it makes a big difference because, first
of all, if you work another year or another two years,
or another five years or on my case, another seven years,
you're saving over that time, you probably are saving.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Well one of these you're contributing without withdrawing, so you're
going I would have thought the difference is quite I mean,
it's almost as shocking as the stat that you talked
about fifteen percent of people being retired over the areg
of sixty five and eighty seven and now it's forty
eight percent sorry working.
Speaker 4 (14:25):
Yeah to stare, Yeah. Yeah. The second thing that's happening
is your investments are actually growing over that period, so
you're contributing. The investments are growing from the returns, and
therefore your money and your money does have to last
less long for a lesser amount of time. So if
(14:45):
you think if you were retiring, you know, often people
will argue about the so called draw down rates, but
if you were drawing, if you were retiring at sixty five,
you'd probably draw down about four percent of a balanced
diversified portfolio. So that would mean if you're two hundred
thousand dollars, you draw four percent per anim for the
(15:05):
next thirty years, and that would mean you're drawing down
about eight thousand dollars a year, four percent of two
hundred thousands. No, if you work for another five years
and you still had only two hundred thousand, you probably
have more than that, but it was still only two
hundred thousand you could draw. Because it has to last
(15:26):
for a short period of time, you could only draw
perhaps draw down six percent, which have means you'd be
drawing twelve thousand dollars perannum, so though you.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
Might have also start more into the account too.
Speaker 4 (15:39):
Yes, that's right, So you probably don't have two six.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
Percent of two and fifty thousand maybe.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
Yes, yeah, exactly, yep, yep, So yeah, so it's probably
fifteen thousand you're able to do. So that's nearly double
the amount of the amount of drawings. So I'd say
your technician is doing it right. I see lots and
lots of people doing this that they're working two days,
or they're working three months a year, two days a week,
(16:05):
three months a year, or something like that. They're doing
the contract every now and again, and they're just they're
doing enough, perhaps just to keep body and solved together.
But they're not drawing down on their funds. They're keeping
their funds intact so they can draw more later.
Speaker 5 (16:21):
Well.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
See, we would love to hear a bit from you
about this. If you are thinking of retiring, or you
have retired, or you have hit that age of retirement,
should we say because and the crude way I've got
of asking the question is retirement all it's cracked up
to be. Look, if you're sitting on a nestig that's
worth millions and millions, obviously it's not a question you
have to look at. But for many people will work
(16:42):
for a bunch of reasons. One until it's still active,
two the social aspect. Three you know, reason to get
up every day apart from going on the next cruise.
Have what approach have you had? Are you one of
the forty eight percent between the age of sixty five
and sixty nine who are still working in some form.
We'd love your cause on that. And I mean the
broader question is are you retirement ready in the way
(17:06):
that we've been chatting about with Martin Hawes. His book
is out now. It's called Retirement Ready, I imagine, Martin,
it's all available at all good bookstores.
Speaker 4 (17:14):
Yes, I hope so not the hardest soulf.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
We'll work on that anyway. We're going to take your
course eight hundred and eighty ten eighty text nine two.
It's twenty four minutes past five, and well, my producer
(17:44):
Tyra has found a slightly themed song there. Am I ready?
Are you ready? Or something? But then, of course it
doesn't say for retirement, it says to be loved. But good,
good work, Tyra. We're taking your course are you retirement Ready?
And by the way, just quickly before we get into it,
we're we're with Martin Haawes right now. He's released his
new book, Retirement Ready, which he's pretty optimistic in the
(18:04):
books stores right now. But just quickly an update on
the f one because I know a lot of a
lot of people are wanting updates on that the Formula
One's Australian Grand Prix has lost a driver before the
start of the race. Racing balls Isaac Hadger crashed on
his formation lap cause a fifteen minute delay to lights
out at Albert Park. Lights out is when you basically
(18:25):
start AGAs red red red red, lights out and where
you go. Liam Lawson is starting from the pit lane
after a change to his rear wing following yesterday's qualifying session.
Speaking of retirement ready, I don't think he'll be ready
to retire, but when he does hit that time, based
on probably what he's earning right now, he'll be all right,
won't he. Do you follow the F one Martin?
Speaker 4 (18:42):
Not closely, but I do follow it when there's Kiwi's involved,
and I do hope he does as well as his
potential as well as the potentially seems to have because
he does seem to be a very very good drive.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
Looks blim and slippery out there. Anyway, right, let's get
into it. Let's get into the calls.
Speaker 6 (18:58):
Kathy, Hello, oh hi Tim, I've just one question for
You're not going to keep you very long, but I
want to know what the good bookshoppers. Is it not
a naughty bookshop?
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Oh, a good bookshop? Well, it's probably not. I can't
even think of that naughty bookshop that would come to mind,
or good.
Speaker 7 (19:16):
Bookshop, good bookshop or good bookshops.
Speaker 6 (19:20):
Okay, you're a good bookshop.
Speaker 4 (19:22):
Well I think, I think, Kathy, A good bookshop is
one that stocks my book.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
Yes, there you go. Yeah, well I could write a book.
You wouldn't believe what I could write about.
Speaker 6 (19:31):
But I don't know it would be called a good bookshop.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
I don't know. Maybe it would be at the bookshop
called naughty and nice. I don't know if there is
such a I don't know, Kathy. Thank you for your call.
Look at all good bookshops. I just think it's an
enticement for that bookshop to stock your book, because if
you're not, the implication is your lousy bookshop. Anyway, shall
we carry on? Let's go with Andrew.
Speaker 5 (19:51):
Hello, Oh here, Martin. I just had a question from man.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
Or.
Speaker 5 (20:00):
Retired at fifty one, and then suddenly realized that I
didn't actually retire. I just shift my focus and I
guess you know, I was working in Martin's industry. Probably
is thirty years abroad as a as a trader, and
(20:21):
I was just stuck at the desk all day and
I just couldn't do that anymore. And particularly with you know,
just traveling all the time, you know, uh, you know,
flying everywhere. It's just yeah, it's just it was too much.
So so yeah, I just you know, it was sort
(20:41):
of like it was more sort of right, chuck it
in and then and then it's sort of like, what
are you doing now? Did you Martin? Did you have
that same Did you have that same experience?
Speaker 4 (20:53):
No, I haven't because I'm I'm still working. I'm still
very engrossed with what's happening in the world of finance,
what's happening in the world, what's happening in geopolitics and
so forth. So that's keeping me at the moment, right
right on my toes. But I couldn't agree more with you,
Andrew that I don't like the word retirement, and what
(21:15):
you've done I think describes described it better, which is
the shift focus you're doing other stuff. The number of
people who have stopped work who say to me, I
don't know how I used to fit a day job,
and because I'm just so busy and they're doing, you know,
maybe they're doing volunteer work. Maybe they're not going to
have to grand children. Maybe they're on the golf golf
course six times a week. Who knows all sorts of
(21:37):
different things. But they're not They're not sitting on a
lazy Yeah, they're not. They're not sitting in the lathy
where rock and cheers. I guess if I completely stop
stop work, you know, I'd spend more time in France
mountaineering and rock climbing. I'd spend more time on the
Pacific swimming, you know, but I wouldn't retire. You know,
(22:01):
retire means to withdraw. Yeah, I hate sure as hell wouldn't.
Speaker 5 (22:06):
I don't even like the word as well.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
What are you? What are you doing to get yourself
out of mischief? From calling me?
Speaker 5 (22:13):
I came from a similar area as as Martin, probably
more of a technical sort of trading areas, and I've
stayed in that, in that line, you know, just every
and ere and then I'm there.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
That sounds very vague, a lot of context around the world,
a little bit of consultancy.
Speaker 5 (22:39):
But then I've actually invested instead of going into you know,
the funds, I've actually just invested directly in businesses the
Berkshire halfway were on Buffett Way, you know, and just
and just brought board into business and which you get.
That's the higher risk, but the returns are much much higher.
(23:03):
So that's what that's what I've andrew.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
I know quite a lot of people who retired at
a similar age to you, and they've looked after their
own portfolio, which is what you're doing, and you probably do.
You know, you're probably setting a certain amount of time
aside and doing it well. And then they've looked after
a few other people's portfolios. The problem with that today
is regulation, and quite rightly, regulation means that you just
(23:28):
can't go off and do that. Will he will he
know you have the qualifications and so forth. But you know,
I mean I I would relabel what you. I wouldn't
put down retired. I put down portfolio manager. Now maybe
only one, maybe only your own portfolio.
Speaker 6 (23:49):
PR.
Speaker 5 (23:49):
I registered in the UK and then ye in New
York as well.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
But how long how long since you've initially stepped out?
Speaker 5 (24:02):
Oh fifty one? Probably six years?
Speaker 3 (24:09):
Oh okay, yeah, oh yeah, young fire used to that. Yeah, okay,
good on you. Yeah, well, I.
Speaker 5 (24:16):
You know, it's just like I don't going down the
same road. I mean, I'd end up in some sort
of a silence somewhere.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
Yeah. Possibly, Good on you, Andrew. Thanks for your call, mate. Alrighty,
where are we up to? It is? It's twenty six
minutes to six. I love your calls. Actually, the other question,
I think, you know what? We do need another name
for retirement. It just sounds so I don't know, Martin,
it does sound. I don't think it's something i'd ever
(24:45):
want to do. No, Yeah, maybe I'll stick them to
chat GPT when we take the next break and see
if I can come up with another word for retirement.
What's a better word for retirement?
Speaker 4 (24:56):
Well, if you can, you beat me, because I've been
scratching around looking for a better one for at least
twenty years. I wrote a book called twenty Good Summers
twenty odd years ago, and I couldn't come up with
a better word than the time. I use it now
all the time. But people don't know what you mean.
But you know given that at retime and age, you know,
(25:16):
I say, you know, the percent of sixty five to
sixty nine year old retired people are actually working. So
how can they describe themselves as retired. It's kind of
a nonsense word.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
Now, I think maybe they're just telling us they've passed
the age of sixty five. Yeah, you know, either I'm
or they've given up what they considered to be their
main sort of stream focused occupation. I guess yes. Actually
got a question here from Pete, who thinks it's an
interesting topic, which is always good. We like to try
(25:50):
to be interesting. Just wondering why you wound up the
trust was why couldn't you just keep it going?
Speaker 4 (25:56):
I could have, but it was one more thing to
look after us, one more thing to have accounts for.
I didn't need it anymore. I think the family you
should always be doing a cost benefit analysis. So you're
doing an analysis of what the benefits of the trust are,
and for me they were pretty much zero. But uh,
(26:18):
by the time I have stepped down from some of
my some of my roles because I am I am
Semilo Tart, I've given some things away, so very little benefit,
very little or no benefit. And the cost, you know,
it's cost of doing accounts, its cost of managing it,
was cost of thinking about it, having trust these meetings
and so forth. So when I did the cost benefit
(26:41):
analysis that came up with it as sort of a
no brainer. You can get you can let this thing go.
So that's why I did it. And what I'd say
to you, Pete is that you should be doing it,
probably on an annual basis. You know, do I still
get a benefit from this? And if I don't, And
even if you do, what are the costs of it?
And do the costs make up for the benefit of
(27:03):
possibly getting it?
Speaker 3 (27:05):
Also depends on because there are different reasons people set
up trusts for, isn't it. Some people set them up
as a way of protecting their assets for their family,
and other people do it probably possibly from a tax
point of view as well. I don't know. I don't
know enough about trust and other ones, just protection of assets,
probably in the event of your business or some sort
(27:25):
of thing. Failing that, something's protected from, you know, being
part of your assets. I mean, I don't know if
you've shared this, So I'm going to ask some nosy questions.
What was the purpose of your trust?
Speaker 4 (27:36):
Well, the latter one, you know, it was way back
in eighty eight or eighty nine. I was giving business advice.
New Zealand was getting steadily more litigious, and my lawyer
said to me, you know, I really think you should
set up a trust. And it didn't mean necessarily that
a five we broke, but I just walked away from everything.
But it would just mean that, you know, there would
(27:57):
be things that were protected for the for the family.
And you know, the benefits of trusts have been chipped
away at quite a lot over the years. If you
go back to eighty nine, we had we had surtax
for retired people, We had you know, rest home subsidies.
(28:19):
People used trust to get around I think if you
go back to eighty seven or eighty eight, we still
had death duties and trusts were used for, let alone,
USTA and stuff, and you know, trusts were used to
avoid the worst impact of a lot of these are
different things. Not many people are saving any tax on trust. Now,
(28:41):
it might be smattering, it might be cue, but very
very few.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
I think that's the reason they also reformed death duties
and things like that, because basically everyone who could, who
had a lot of money that they could get their
hands on, was awarding them through trusts. And that was
almost part of the motivation for it, I think, wasn't it.
Speaker 4 (28:57):
Yes, And they used. People use mirror trusts back on
those days to a book their death duties. So you know,
most of the most of the perceived benefits aren't there anymore.
You know, people talk about setting up a trust if
you are going into a second relationship, a second marriage,
(29:18):
or a second long term relationship, and yeah, well it's
not a bad idea, but there's a whole industry in
overturning trusts for relationship property issues, and there's a whole
lot of case law that is coming out of us
which makes it more and more difficult all the time.
So just as time's gone on, the benefits of trusts
(29:41):
is not there anymore.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
Yeah, okay, look, we want to hear from you as well.
Have you retired at the age of sixty five? Are
you one of the forty eight percent of people who
are still working in between the ages of sixty five
to sixty nine. Actually, I was just thinking of our
own Bruce Russell, who tragically passed away at work. But
Bruce was still doing what he loved and I'm not
sure how idly he was, but he was definitely started
with a seven as far as I know. But yes,
(30:04):
we want to hear from you. As well. I've got
a few other terms as well. I'll bring up after
the breakers to how we could redefine the word retirement, because,
like Martin and ow are the caller Andrew, none of
us like that word very much. It is twenty to
six news Talks. He'd be the S News Talks. He'd
be with Tim Beverage, with Martin Hawes. Just an update
on the F one racing has gotten underway fully. The
(30:25):
first seven laps of raced behind the safety car. After
three separate drivers failed to complete the first lap. Liam
Lawson has moved up to sixteenth, but it's more than
ten seconds off the pace by the time the green
flags were waved and it does look incredibly slippery. Right.
Let's by the way, Martin, I've got Martin Hawes. I've
got some other suggestions. I'm not sure that for retirement
(30:47):
one the Golden Years chat GPS don't like that very much.
Makes you sound like you're about ninety, doesn't it.
Speaker 4 (30:53):
Yeah, and in some ways I like, I mean, what
old movie years and years ago on.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
The Golden Girls. That's what. No permanent vacation, no next adventure,
reinvention time, there's nothing that's grabbing me a fucking come
up legacy phase. I don't know where the mate. That
sounds like you've passed away, doesn't it anyway? Right, let's
take some calls Lorraine.
Speaker 6 (31:21):
Hello, Oh, hi, Hi.
Speaker 7 (31:24):
I'm just wondering in my situation, what's the best way
to prepare. I'm coming up sixty four and unfortunately my
husband got sick at the age of sixty two and
couldn't work, so our retirement plans kind of came to nothing.
(31:47):
He's presently in a care facility and looks like that's
going to have to be a permanent thing. And I
have to apply for the care subsidy. I don't know
where there are get it or not. I know i'm
below the assets. However, they'll still take his pension and
(32:14):
I work part time and I've got my own Kiwi
savor which I contribute into regularly. But I'm just wondering
in this situation, you know, what's the best thing I
could possibly do to prepare for my own retirement, because
it's quite a tricky financial situation. If I don't get
(32:38):
the funding, then you know, I don't know what I'll
do because there's a lot.
Speaker 4 (32:46):
Of money, Lorraine, I was going to say a tricky situation,
I think is understating it. It's obviously a very difficult situation,
and it sounds to me like you're doing it. You're
doing the beast you can. You'll have someone come. Some
(33:06):
of that income is going off into keepsaver. Hopefully when
you turn sixty five, your employers will continue to pay
a subsidy on that, make a contribution on your key resaver.
They don't have to when you're over sixty five. I
think it's a disgrace that they don't have to. But
there you go. I think, just keep going as well
(33:31):
as you possibly can. There's no magic willert in any
of stuff. There's nothing. I don't have a magic wand
and nobody does have that can just make it all
all better. And I think you just have to keep
working for as long you're probably gonna have to work
for as long as you possibly can. I do hope
(33:53):
you get that that reston that residential care sublidy.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
That's something you have. We've had some experience of in
our family, and it's despite all the savings you can do,
if one of you ends up and you've got more
than you know the minimum amount and you end up
in a care facility. They'll tell you what that that
that gets whittled away very quickly, doesn't it. It's bloody.
Speaker 7 (34:16):
The only other thing to see if that happens then,
I mean, I've thought about a reverse mortgage, but I've
been warned not to do that because I know it's
I think it's about one hundred thousand a year for
a rest home.
Speaker 3 (34:32):
Oh, well you have that. They if you, if your
assets have whittled down to I think if you've got
less than one hundred and seventy thousand or something, then
they you do get the subsidies. My understanding is some amount,
isn't that right?
Speaker 4 (34:42):
Yeah, it's too eighty odd now, so it's been growing
with inflation. It started off as I think one sixty
or something years ago, but it's too eighty odd now.
You'll share it. You'll share of the house, and I
think that excluded. But I think the house might even
be excluded.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
Oh, the house has excluded, definitely.
Speaker 4 (35:01):
Yes, while you're still so well, you know, you said
you probably meet the asset testing and therefore it's it'll
be the other dots and pieces that you will need
to meet. And it sounds like you will meet those
But you're just going to carry on working part time,
(35:22):
making sure that you ask for a rise every now
and again, because make sure that you're being paid for
whack being paid what you're worse and salting some of
that away and TV save.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
Thanks for your call, Lorraine, she said, as just an
out of the box idea of thinking concerning the family
homes not not taken into account. Almost wonder if you're
better to trade up into a more expensive home, lock
it all up that way. In fact, I wonder if
that would be legit if you had a if you
had a whole lot of savings and you thought it
was going to be whittled away by the by the
subsidy that you're having to pay for your partner being
(36:00):
in care, wonder whether you could get away with that.
It's like, well, I've bought another house, I've had to
move to a different area, and I had to spend
another million dollars on it.
Speaker 4 (36:09):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
I like the sound of that, but it sounds like
a random thought and probably a little off topic. Gosh,
time flies, We're twelve minutes to twelve minutes to sex.
We'll have to take a moment. Martin we'll come back
and just to take her. This's is news Talks. He'd
be yes, News Talks. He'd be back with Martin Hores
and let's go to Barbara.
Speaker 6 (36:27):
Hi, Barbara, Oh Hi, Tim Gosh, that was quick. I
just came up with a name instead of retirement or
the golden years. It really does sound as if you're
sitting somewhere waiting for God, doesn't.
Speaker 3 (36:41):
It doesn't anyway? What's your doing.
Speaker 6 (36:46):
For some days? Are you still working? No, I'm in
my leisure years.
Speaker 3 (36:50):
Well that leisure years, it's all right. But again, if
I covers.
Speaker 6 (36:54):
It, well, it covers quite a spectrum, doesn't it. Leisure doing,
Charita will work, or you can be trotting around the world.
Speaker 4 (37:05):
I certainly like that best of what I've heard. I'm
just not sure that it would roll off your tongue
and everybody would know exactly what you were meaning when
you said it the first time.
Speaker 6 (37:16):
Well, once they got once the sister word got into
the system and people started using it like anything. Really,
you've got to get used to it.
Speaker 3 (37:24):
And yeah, well possibly, yep, thanks.
Speaker 6 (37:27):
Thanks came into my head while I was doing the crossword.
That's also I thought i'd give it a go.
Speaker 3 (37:33):
Thanks Barbara. Nice to hear from you. Okay, we've got
one here. Let's see how much time we got. No, no,
we've got time for it.
Speaker 4 (37:41):
Hi.
Speaker 3 (37:41):
I was sixty five last year and I have tried
to reduce my working days to three. I've got about
two fifteen key we saver two seventy in term deposits,
so half a million bucks basically a freehold property worth
about one point seven I'd like to continue working for myself,
but I'm conscious about not having enough to actually finish
fully of a pretty low lifestyle spending. Have you got
(38:03):
any advice that's from Jane? No specific finance, still vice Jones,
but any thought their thoughts there, Martin, he's probably Jane.
Speaker 4 (38:11):
Sorry, he's probably got enough to have what they call
a choice's lifestyle, or maybe it's maybe it's a little
bit sure for that one of the things I'd be
talking to him about. Some one of our listeners brought
it up before, and that's the so called home equity
release or reverse reverse mortgage. There's a second way of
(38:35):
doing that, and it was advertised actually during one of
the breaks this afternoon by a Lifetime Home I used
to be a director of that company. I'm not anymore,
but it's basically to use your home from age seventy
to get income. The other thing that you need to
be aware of in this or this retirement income thing
(38:57):
is that although if you're retired at say sixty eight,
he's still probably quite active, quite relatively young. You're still
going to be out doing things. You're going to be
playing goal for rock climbing or skime whatever.
Speaker 3 (39:09):
If you want, that's what you're doing.
Speaker 4 (39:11):
Yeah, and they cost. But gradually, as you get older,
the cost that you need for a living reduces. And this,
I mean, this has been well studied and it happens
kind of naturally so that as we move into our eighties,
we just start and automatically spend less. So there's a
(39:33):
little bit of comfort in that. So I mean James
has you know, he's got five hundred odd um, he's
got six hundred odd thousand there. He could spend you know,
maybe twenty thousand dollars a year at the beginning, knowing
that later on he's going to be down to five
or ten. On top of which you have New Zealand's.
Speaker 3 (39:55):
That sort of ties them with I mean, there are
people who obviously do very hard trades, and they'd be
dying to give up the tools, you know, if they've
had a hard manulation. And I'm aware that that it's
a different equation for everyone. But I guess my approach is,
if I'm old enough to enjoy the life is when
I get to that age. If I'm old enough, if
I'm fit enough to enjoy the same things as I was.
(40:17):
You know, once I hit sixty, before I hit sixty five,
I'd just keep living my life in the same way.
I just ignore the number and keep cranking on. I
imagine there are a lot of and as we see
that you mentioned that number at the start, that's changed
from a nine to eighty seven to fifteen percent of
people in retirement age sixty five sixty nine working Now
it's forty eight percent. That number is just going to
go up, isn't it, Martin.
Speaker 4 (40:37):
Yes, it is, and it's partly driven by financial matters,
but it's also driven by the fact that we are
better medically, and we feel younger, and we are more
able to do stuff.
Speaker 3 (40:49):
Great. Hey, great to talk Martin. And if you want
Martin's book, go to any book good book seller. It's
called Retirement Reading. It's hot off the press and my
producers reading it and she said it's a fantastic read. Hey,
next week, we've got a fantastic show lined up. We've
got a new guests, Melissa Greeno and Terio, designer for
One Roof Parents Squad. We got the principal of Vanguard
Military School and the Health Hub next weekend. It is
(41:09):
Ashley Bloomfield, the former Director General. So lots to look
forward to next weekend. To catch you soon.
Speaker 1 (41:20):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to News
Talk sed Be weekends from three pm, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talk,
said brm.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Back the timescu you acas, it's it's fat.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
You guys, Welcome back to the Weekend Collective. I'm Tim Beverage.
By the way, if you've missed any of the previous hours,
we had a fascinating chat about trade and tariffs. I
know that sort of sounds fairly dry when I say
it like that, but we had Brad Olsen and all
of a Heart which join us for discussion around those
issues on Politics Central. You can go back and check
(00:59):
our podcast look for the Weekend Collective on Iheartradiot news Talk,
saidb dot co dot n Z. And last out Dr
John talking about pain relief among other things, and health
check up milestones. But right now it is time for
the smart money. And my guest he's finally finished that
well I think he finished it a while ago, but
(01:19):
it's all out now, and Martin Hawes is with us.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
Martin, Hello, Yeah, Hi there, Tom, thank you.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
What's so? Is the book actually out?
Speaker 4 (01:27):
I think it is. It's out any day. It will
have been out this last week or the coming week.
I think it was the twelfth or something like something
like that, so it must be out now.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
It must be out. It's not very hard sell Martin,
nor I think it's out. Did you have a did
you have a launch?
Speaker 4 (01:46):
No, not not really, because they don't tend to do that.
You know, they do with some box but not with
a lot of books. And you know, I'm the publishers
are in I'm in christ. Huge's pretty hard to put
gooll together and so no, it just goes into the
into the bookshops and I always do a bit of publicity.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
Yeah, well here we are we talking about it. But
actually I don't think you took my Did I give
you some advice on a potential title for it? Or
do we discuss that? But anyway, you've gone with retirement ready.
Speaker 4 (02:20):
Yes, it's not my call, it's the publisher's call, so
I can I can pass that one over. But it's
not a bad it's not a bad title because the
book's quite biographical. It's got quite a lot of me,
and in fact, I apologized early on to say there's
a lot of eye me, my mind and so forth
right through the book, because I'm really giving the story
(02:43):
that I did when I left Queenstown and moved to Chice,
huge about five six years ago. And when you have
a major disruption in your life, you meant to have
a good look at your finances and I did that,
but at the same time, I wanted to make myself
ready for a retirement. So should that happen, I don't
intend to retire. I intend to keep carry on working.
(03:04):
But you're only you know, a certain nature, and as
good as your last stoctor's visit or the last bit
of a mistake you make in a seminar or something
like that. So I will probably be retired at some sometime.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
We're going to talk about that a little bit about
working longer, but before we do, in fact we're going
to talk, we're going to explore the idea about you know,
sixty five and and actually the financial impact of working
a bit longer and how much of a difference that
can make, because of course, as soon as you stop working,
you're eating into your savings and every year that you're
able to continue earning. But I actually just wanted to
ask you, as a financial author who's written, Okay, how
(03:43):
many books is at twenty three?
Speaker 4 (03:44):
Now, twenty four?
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Now, oh twenty four?
Speaker 4 (03:49):
Countless for one now is launch?
Speaker 3 (03:52):
But I would have said, knowing a little bit about
your martin that that if anyone was going to be
a retirement ready, before you asked yourself that question, I
would have thought, of course you were at ready, but
what did you Were there things that, even as someone
who's a financial author and someone who's spent a career
talking about keeping your finances in order and being prepared
(04:15):
for paying off your mortgage and investing and all that
sort of thing, was there something that you thought, Oh, actually,
now I come to think of it, even though I've
lived at life doing this stuff, there are a couple
of things on your to do list that you needed
to put in.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
It was just that I did that bic shift. After
twenty years living in Queensdowne, I moved to christ Church
and I had at the same time a few disruptions
to my life, and my situation became quite different, and
I therefore thought I needed to go through one at
a time and then at the same time just to
set everything up so that I could very quickly retire
(04:50):
if I wanted to. It would really be a matter
of calling the people who managed my investments and saying,
could you give me a payment of this amount Every fortnight.
I could do it virtually, instant instant, and you know,
the book's name is Retirement Ready. But it was really
(05:12):
a major review of my own finances, everything from the
family trust to the well to enduring powers of attorney,
to health insurance to my investments, and I brought some
pretty big changes to some of them. One of the
really big ones was investment. After forty five years of
(05:32):
managing my own investment, I decided I readily hand over
my money to somebody else and have them investment invested
for me. So there are a whole bunch of things
like that. Health insurance is another one. We'll probably talk
about that later because it's something that's on a lot
of older people's minds, because health insurance is starting.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
To get thosive the more you need it. The absolutely
cruel iron of it all, Yes, by the way I
had when you had it, used to make your own
investment decisions, and then you handed it over to someone
else to do it, who did the better job? Were
you better? Or once you handed to them you're like, oh,
why didn't I do this earlier?
Speaker 4 (06:12):
I actually think they are doing a better job. And
the reason for that was because it's the it's the
old thing, the black the cobbler's family is the poorest shot.
So the cobbler makes shoes for other people, but doesn't
really make them from it for her own own family.
And I would look after other people's money or give
(06:35):
people advice on their money without really looking after my
own money. And the other thing I noticed that it's
for soth far who looks after my money then, and
they are ruthless when it comes to selling. You know,
if they've got a profit there, they take it. If
there's something that's not performing, they sell up. And I don't.
(07:00):
I tend to get attached to investments and hang on
and hang on and hang on, and you know, I
watch it go up and then I want to come
back down again and find myself back in the same place.
So I've got some deficiencies. Even I've looked after my money,
and even though I've written about people who get emotionally
attached to investments, I find myself doing it myself.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
Well, So human nature, isn't it just so instinct?
Speaker 4 (07:25):
I think that I have measured it, but it would
be it would be quite difficult com measure. But I
think they're getting they're probably getting better turns, they would
certainly have lower volatility, you know what's also with less risk.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
I also wonder whether that with the increasingly high speed
at which so much information can be available on a
multitude investments all at once, the speed that information is
available means that you need to have a huge amount
of sort of processing power in a way to be
able to assimilate all that stuff whereases, and that that
(08:01):
plays into the hands of people who are doing it
twenty four to seven on it our scale, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
Yeah, They're sitting in front of their screens all day
every day, whereas I am not need more because I'm
not giving financial advice. But I might be your way
doing a seminar, or I might be away in France
climbing or something like that. They are there, and when
the individual one individual is not there, there's somebody else
who's looking at it. So and I think that twenty
(08:29):
four to seven all in, you're either all in or
you're all out. And I was sort of I was
messing in the middle, to be honest.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
So it sounds like you set yourself up quite a
to do list, really, did you. We surprised at how
much it took from sort of managing people's money and
your own money to actually deciding you were retirement. Reading it,
I mean, how how much work was involved in getting
yourself sort of sorted out?
Speaker 4 (08:57):
Not so much work, more decisions because once you've decided
that somebody else is going to look after the money
that you know, the the execution of that is really
a simple phone call and it all happens. But what
did surprise me was the number of things I had
to make decisions on. And I made those decisions over
(09:20):
probably a couple of years. So I didn't put a
side a day or a week or something like that
and go through it. I just kind of did it
as they arose and as they look really necessary. You know,
one of the things I did was wind up the
family trust. Now I didn't wind it up immediately. I
waited to the end of the financial year to do that.
So there's and you know, I mean, it doesn't have
(09:44):
to be done together, but it doesn't need to be
done I think that's that's the important thing.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
You know.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
The retirement's a major developmental stage in life. It comes
at a time when we're not necessarily terribly good at change,
but it there's a major developmental and that in itself
is a good time to have a good look at
your overall find and figure out a new strategy. In
some areas, what was the biggest what was it?
Speaker 3 (10:10):
Okay, what was the toughest or the most challenging decision
for you to make? Or maybe the top two the
hardest two or three.
Speaker 4 (10:17):
I think the investments would be want to let go
your baby? It's like let go my baby forty five
years you know, going back to the old days of
of telephoning a broker and saying, what do you think
about doing this? And then putting out their tip sheets
and so forth? That was that was Yeah, letting go
(10:38):
the baby was a really big, really big one.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
I mean a bit decision you'd feel good about though
if you saw their performance and when I hang on
them and I should have done I should have done
this ten years ago.
Speaker 4 (10:49):
Well, I should have done it twenty years ago. I
probably should have done it forty years ago.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
Actually, but.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
Because I don't think it would have been the worse.
I think at once, you know, net off their fees
and so forth, and your net off my time. I
don't I don't think that the well, I think returns
would have been better to be honest.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
Look, we love your cause, by the way, on and
how retirement ready are you? But in particular I want
to explore and this with you on eight hundred and
eighty ten eighty, but also of course with Martin, because
one of the questions I've got is it came off
It came off the back of a colleague who retired,
who works on the technical side of things. Here it
ends heed me and I'll keep his identity secret because
(11:31):
not secret for any other reason other just as privacy.
But when he resigned after a significant length of time
in broadcasting, I sort of said goodbye, and I used
to bump into him in the wee small hours when
he was working. And I went away and I came back,
and all of a sudden, I said, I found myself
saying a low to him again. I was like, what Hello.
Then I thought to himself, hell on, haven't you retired?
(11:52):
And he said yeah. I said, what are you doing?
He says, I'm doing three days a week, and he
just gone home and went well. I think he realized
he still had more to give. But the question that
came out of it is is financially that can make a.
It can make a massive difference every year you work,
doesn't it? Yes? What's your take on all that?
Speaker 4 (12:14):
Yeah, it really does. I'll give you a couple of numbers.
If you go back to nineteen eighty seven, which I
think the first time is the these records were taken,
fifteen percent, one five percent of sixty five to sixty
nine year olds were working, So fifteen percent. Going back
to twenty seven. If you go back to twenty twenty five,
(12:35):
just back to twenty twenty four, forty eight percent of
people age sixty five to sixty nine are working. So
it's almost now now, that's right, So now almost most
people are working in that in that five year age backup.
So that's a stunning change over that period of time,
(12:56):
and it does make him The real point of the
question is doesn't make a big difference to financially, Yes,
it does. It does be because the old time, the
old days of people putting their money in the banking
and living off the interest, or putting it into government
stock and living off on the interest, they're gone. Instead,
those who are well advised put into a diversified portfolio
(13:20):
and then they make a standard fortnightly or monthly or
even annual draw down of a certain amount, and when
they do that, they're spending not just the returns they're getting,
but a bit of the capital as well, and that
means that the capital is gradually running down. So the
race is on between them.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
Yeah, exactly through it before you pass away, basically.
Speaker 4 (13:47):
Yeah, yeah, and there's a whole you know, this is
a very difficult area that actuaries argue about so and
so on, but it makes a big difference because, first
of all, if you work another year or another two years,
or another five years or on my case, another seven years,
you're saving over that time, you probably are saving.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Well one of these you're contributing without withdrawing, so you're
going I would have thought the difference is quite I mean,
it's almost as shocking as the stat that you talked
about fifteen percent of people being retired over the areg
of sixty five and eighty seven and now it's forty
eight percent sorry working.
Speaker 4 (14:25):
Yeah to stare, Yeah. Yeah. The second thing that's happening
is your investments are actually growing over that period, so
you're contributing. The investments are growing from the returns, and
therefore your money and your money does have to last
less long for a lesser amount of time. So if
(14:45):
you think if you were retiring, you know, often people
will argue about the so called draw down rates, but
if you were drawing, if you were retiring at sixty five,
you'd probably draw down about four percent of a balanced
diversified portfolio. So that would mean if you're two hundred
thousand dollars, you draw four percent per anim for the
(15:05):
next thirty years, and that would mean you're drawing down
about eight thousand dollars a year, four percent of two
hundred thousands. No, if you work for another five years
and you still had only two hundred thousand, you probably
have more than that, but it was still only two
hundred thousand you could draw. Because it has to last
(15:26):
for a short period of time, you could only draw
perhaps draw down six percent, which have means you'd be
drawing twelve thousand dollars perannum, so though you.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
Might have also start more into the account too.
Speaker 4 (15:39):
Yes, that's right, So you probably don't have two six.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
Percent of two and fifty thousand maybe.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
Yes, yeah, exactly, yep, yep, So yeah, so it's probably
fifteen thousand you're able to do. So that's nearly double
the amount of the amount of drawings. So I'd say
your technician is doing it right. I see lots and
lots of people doing this that they're working two days,
or they're working three months a year, two days a week,
(16:05):
three months a year, or something like that. They're doing
the contract every now and again, and they're just they're
doing enough, perhaps just to keep body and solved together.
But they're not drawing down on their funds. They're keeping
their funds intact so they can draw more later.
Speaker 5 (16:21):
Well.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
See, we would love to hear a bit from you
about this. If you are thinking of retiring, or you
have retired, or you have hit that age of retirement,
should we say because and the crude way I've got
of asking the question is retirement all it's cracked up
to be. Look, if you're sitting on a nestig that's
worth millions and millions, obviously it's not a question you
have to look at. But for many people will work
(16:42):
for a bunch of reasons. One until it's still active,
two the social aspect. Three you know, reason to get
up every day apart from going on the next cruise.
Have what approach have you had? Are you one of
the forty eight percent between the age of sixty five
and sixty nine who are still working in some form.
We'd love your cause on that. And I mean the
broader question is are you retirement ready in the way
(17:06):
that we've been chatting about with Martin Hawes. His book
is out now. It's called Retirement Ready, I imagine, Martin,
it's all available at all good bookstores.
Speaker 4 (17:14):
Yes, I hope so not the hardest soulf.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
We'll work on that anyway. We're going to take your
course eight hundred and eighty ten eighty text nine two.
It's twenty four minutes past five, and well, my producer
(17:44):
Tyra has found a slightly themed song there. Am I ready?
Are you ready? Or something? But then, of course it
doesn't say for retirement, it says to be loved. But good,
good work, Tyra. We're taking your course are you retirement Ready?
And by the way, just quickly before we get into it,
we're we're with Martin Haawes right now. He's released his
new book, Retirement Ready, which he's pretty optimistic in the
(18:04):
books stores right now. But just quickly an update on
the f one because I know a lot of a
lot of people are wanting updates on that the Formula
One's Australian Grand Prix has lost a driver before the
start of the race. Racing balls Isaac Hadger crashed on
his formation lap cause a fifteen minute delay to lights
out at Albert Park. Lights out is when you basically
(18:25):
start AGAs red red red red, lights out and where
you go. Liam Lawson is starting from the pit lane
after a change to his rear wing following yesterday's qualifying session.
Speaking of retirement ready, I don't think he'll be ready
to retire, but when he does hit that time, based
on probably what he's earning right now, he'll be all right,
won't he. Do you follow the F one Martin?
Speaker 4 (18:42):
Not closely, but I do follow it when there's Kiwi's involved,
and I do hope he does as well as his
potential as well as the potentially seems to have because
he does seem to be a very very good drive.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
Looks blim and slippery out there. Anyway, right, let's get
into it. Let's get into the calls.
Speaker 6 (18:58):
Kathy, Hello, oh hi Tim, I've just one question for
You're not going to keep you very long, but I
want to know what the good bookshoppers. Is it not
a naughty bookshop?
Speaker 3 (19:09):
Oh, a good bookshop? Well, it's probably not. I can't
even think of that naughty bookshop that would come to mind,
or good.
Speaker 7 (19:16):
Bookshop, good bookshop or good bookshops.
Speaker 6 (19:20):
Okay, you're a good bookshop.
Speaker 4 (19:22):
Well I think, I think, Kathy, A good bookshop is
one that stocks my book.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
Yes, there you go. Yeah, well I could write a book.
You wouldn't believe what I could write about.
Speaker 6 (19:31):
But I don't know it would be called a good bookshop.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
I don't know. Maybe it would be at the bookshop
called naughty and nice. I don't know if there is
such a I don't know, Kathy. Thank you for your call.
Look at all good bookshops. I just think it's an
enticement for that bookshop to stock your book, because if
you're not, the implication is your lousy bookshop. Anyway, shall
we carry on? Let's go with Andrew.
Speaker 5 (19:51):
Hello, Oh here, Martin. I just had a question from man.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
Or.
Speaker 5 (20:00):
Retired at fifty one, and then suddenly realized that I
didn't actually retire. I just shift my focus and I
guess you know, I was working in Martin's industry. Probably
is thirty years abroad as a as a trader, and
(20:21):
I was just stuck at the desk all day and
I just couldn't do that anymore. And particularly with you know,
just traveling all the time, you know, uh, you know,
flying everywhere. It's just yeah, it's just it was too much.
So so yeah, I just you know, it was sort
(20:41):
of like it was more sort of right, chuck it
in and then and then it's sort of like, what
are you doing now? Did you Martin? Did you have
that same Did you have that same experience?
Speaker 4 (20:53):
No, I haven't because I'm I'm still working. I'm still
very engrossed with what's happening in the world of finance,
what's happening in the world, what's happening in geopolitics and
so forth. So that's keeping me at the moment, right
right on my toes. But I couldn't agree more with you,
Andrew that I don't like the word retirement, and what
(21:15):
you've done I think describes described it better, which is
the shift focus you're doing other stuff. The number of
people who have stopped work who say to me, I
don't know how I used to fit a day job,
and because I'm just so busy and they're doing, you know,
maybe they're doing volunteer work. Maybe they're not going to
have to grand children. Maybe they're on the golf golf
course six times a week. Who knows all sorts of
(21:37):
different things. But they're not They're not sitting on a
lazy Yeah, they're not. They're not sitting in the lathy
where rock and cheers. I guess if I completely stop
stop work, you know, I'd spend more time in France
mountaineering and rock climbing. I'd spend more time on the
Pacific swimming, you know, but I wouldn't retire. You know,
(22:01):
retire means to withdraw. Yeah, I hate sure as hell wouldn't.
Speaker 5 (22:06):
I don't even like the word as well.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
What are you? What are you doing to get yourself
out of mischief? From calling me?
Speaker 5 (22:13):
I came from a similar area as as Martin, probably
more of a technical sort of trading areas, and I've
stayed in that, in that line, you know, just every
and ere and then I'm there.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
That sounds very vague, a lot of context around the world,
a little bit of consultancy.
Speaker 5 (22:39):
But then I've actually invested instead of going into you know,
the funds, I've actually just invested directly in businesses the
Berkshire halfway were on Buffett Way, you know, and just
and just brought board into business and which you get.
That's the higher risk, but the returns are much much higher.
(23:03):
So that's what that's what I've andrew.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
I know quite a lot of people who retired at
a similar age to you, and they've looked after their
own portfolio, which is what you're doing, and you probably do.
You know, you're probably setting a certain amount of time
aside and doing it well. And then they've looked after
a few other people's portfolios. The problem with that today
is regulation, and quite rightly, regulation means that you just
(23:28):
can't go off and do that. Will he will he
know you have the qualifications and so forth. But you know,
I mean I I would relabel what you. I wouldn't
put down retired. I put down portfolio manager. Now maybe
only one, maybe only your own portfolio.
Speaker 6 (23:49):
PR.
Speaker 5 (23:49):
I registered in the UK and then ye in New
York as well.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
But how long how long since you've initially stepped out?
Speaker 5 (24:02):
Oh fifty one? Probably six years?
Speaker 3 (24:09):
Oh okay, yeah, oh yeah, young fire used to that. Yeah, okay,
good on you. Yeah, well, I.
Speaker 5 (24:16):
You know, it's just like I don't going down the
same road. I mean, I'd end up in some sort
of a silence somewhere.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
Yeah. Possibly, Good on you, Andrew. Thanks for your call, mate. Alrighty,
where are we up to? It is? It's twenty six
minutes to six. I love your calls. Actually, the other question,
I think, you know what? We do need another name
for retirement. It just sounds so I don't know, Martin,
it does sound. I don't think it's something i'd ever
(24:45):
want to do. No, Yeah, maybe I'll stick them to
chat GPT when we take the next break and see
if I can come up with another word for retirement.
What's a better word for retirement?
Speaker 4 (24:56):
Well, if you can, you beat me, because I've been
scratching around looking for a better one for at least
twenty years. I wrote a book called twenty Good Summers
twenty odd years ago, and I couldn't come up with
a better word than the time. I use it now
all the time. But people don't know what you mean.
But you know given that at retime and age, you know,
(25:16):
I say, you know, the percent of sixty five to
sixty nine year old retired people are actually working. So
how can they describe themselves as retired. It's kind of
a nonsense word.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
Now, I think maybe they're just telling us they've passed
the age of sixty five. Yeah, you know, either I'm
or they've given up what they considered to be their
main sort of stream focused occupation. I guess yes. Actually
got a question here from Pete, who thinks it's an
interesting topic, which is always good. We like to try
(25:50):
to be interesting. Just wondering why you wound up the
trust was why couldn't you just keep it going?
Speaker 4 (25:56):
I could have, but it was one more thing to
look after us, one more thing to have accounts for.
I didn't need it anymore. I think the family you
should always be doing a cost benefit analysis. So you're
doing an analysis of what the benefits of the trust are,
and for me they were pretty much zero. But uh,
(26:18):
by the time I have stepped down from some of
my some of my roles because I am I am
Semilo Tart, I've given some things away, so very little benefit,
very little or no benefit. And the cost, you know,
it's cost of doing accounts, its cost of managing it,
was cost of thinking about it, having trust these meetings
and so forth. So when I did the cost benefit
(26:41):
analysis that came up with it as sort of a
no brainer. You can get you can let this thing go.
So that's why I did it. And what I'd say
to you, Pete is that you should be doing it,
probably on an annual basis. You know, do I still
get a benefit from this? And if I don't, And
even if you do, what are the costs of it?
And do the costs make up for the benefit of
(27:03):
possibly getting it?
Speaker 3 (27:05):
Also depends on because there are different reasons people set
up trusts for, isn't it. Some people set them up
as a way of protecting their assets for their family,
and other people do it probably possibly from a tax
point of view as well. I don't know. I don't
know enough about trust and other ones, just protection of assets,
probably in the event of your business or some sort
(27:25):
of thing. Failing that, something's protected from, you know, being
part of your assets. I mean, I don't know if
you've shared this, So I'm going to ask some nosy questions.
What was the purpose of your trust?
Speaker 4 (27:36):
Well, the latter one, you know, it was way back
in eighty eight or eighty nine. I was giving business advice.
New Zealand was getting steadily more litigious, and my lawyer
said to me, you know, I really think you should
set up a trust. And it didn't mean necessarily that
a five we broke, but I just walked away from everything.
But it would just mean that, you know, there would
(27:57):
be things that were protected for the for the family.
And you know, the benefits of trusts have been chipped
away at quite a lot over the years. If you
go back to eighty nine, we had we had surtax
for retired people, We had you know, rest home subsidies.
(28:19):
People used trust to get around I think if you
go back to eighty seven or eighty eight, we still
had death duties and trusts were used for, let alone,
USTA and stuff, and you know, trusts were used to
avoid the worst impact of a lot of these are
different things. Not many people are saving any tax on trust. Now,
(28:41):
it might be smattering, it might be cue, but very
very few.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
I think that's the reason they also reformed death duties
and things like that, because basically everyone who could, who
had a lot of money that they could get their
hands on, was awarding them through trusts. And that was
almost part of the motivation for it, I think, wasn't it.
Speaker 4 (28:57):
Yes, And they used. People use mirror trusts back on
those days to a book their death duties. So you know,
most of the most of the perceived benefits aren't there anymore.
You know, people talk about setting up a trust if
you are going into a second relationship, a second marriage,
(29:18):
or a second long term relationship, and yeah, well it's
not a bad idea, but there's a whole industry in
overturning trusts for relationship property issues, and there's a whole
lot of case law that is coming out of us
which makes it more and more difficult all the time.
So just as time's gone on, the benefits of trusts
(29:41):
is not there anymore.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
Yeah, okay, look, we want to hear from you as well.
Have you retired at the age of sixty five? Are
you one of the forty eight percent of people who
are still working in between the ages of sixty five
to sixty nine. Actually, I was just thinking of our
own Bruce Russell, who tragically passed away at work. But
Bruce was still doing what he loved and I'm not
sure how idly he was, but he was definitely started
with a seven as far as I know. But yes,
(30:04):
we want to hear from you. As well. I've got
a few other terms as well. I'll bring up after
the breakers to how we could redefine the word retirement, because,
like Martin and ow are the caller Andrew, none of
us like that word very much. It is twenty to
six news Talks. He'd be the S News Talks. He'd
be with Tim Beverage, with Martin Hawes. Just an update
on the F one racing has gotten underway fully. The
(30:25):
first seven laps of raced behind the safety car. After
three separate drivers failed to complete the first lap. Liam
Lawson has moved up to sixteenth, but it's more than
ten seconds off the pace by the time the green
flags were waved and it does look incredibly slippery. Right.
Let's by the way, Martin, I've got Martin Hawes. I've
got some other suggestions. I'm not sure that for retirement
(30:47):
one the Golden Years chat GPS don't like that very much.
Makes you sound like you're about ninety, doesn't it.
Speaker 4 (30:53):
Yeah, and in some ways I like, I mean, what
old movie years and years ago on.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
The Golden Girls. That's what. No permanent vacation, no next adventure,
reinvention time, there's nothing that's grabbing me a fucking come
up legacy phase. I don't know where the mate. That
sounds like you've passed away, doesn't it anyway? Right, let's
take some calls Lorraine.
Speaker 6 (31:21):
Hello, Oh, hi, Hi.
Speaker 7 (31:24):
I'm just wondering in my situation, what's the best way
to prepare. I'm coming up sixty four and unfortunately my
husband got sick at the age of sixty two and
couldn't work, so our retirement plans kind of came to nothing.
(31:47):
He's presently in a care facility and looks like that's
going to have to be a permanent thing. And I
have to apply for the care subsidy. I don't know
where there are get it or not. I know i'm
below the assets. However, they'll still take his pension and
(32:14):
I work part time and I've got my own Kiwi
savor which I contribute into regularly. But I'm just wondering
in this situation, you know, what's the best thing I
could possibly do to prepare for my own retirement, because
it's quite a tricky financial situation. If I don't get
(32:38):
the funding, then you know, I don't know what I'll
do because there's a lot.
Speaker 4 (32:46):
Of money, Lorraine, I was going to say a tricky situation,
I think is understating it. It's obviously a very difficult situation,
and it sounds to me like you're doing it. You're
doing the beast you can. You'll have someone come. Some
(33:06):
of that income is going off into keepsaver. Hopefully when
you turn sixty five, your employers will continue to pay
a subsidy on that, make a contribution on your key resaver.
They don't have to when you're over sixty five. I
think it's a disgrace that they don't have to. But
there you go. I think, just keep going as well
(33:31):
as you possibly can. There's no magic willert in any
of stuff. There's nothing. I don't have a magic wand
and nobody does have that can just make it all
all better. And I think you just have to keep
working for as long you're probably gonna have to work
for as long as you possibly can. I do hope
(33:53):
you get that that reston that residential care sublidy.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
That's something you have. We've had some experience of in
our family, and it's despite all the savings you can do,
if one of you ends up and you've got more
than you know the minimum amount and you end up
in a care facility. They'll tell you what that that
that gets whittled away very quickly, doesn't it. It's bloody.
Speaker 7 (34:16):
The only other thing to see if that happens then,
I mean, I've thought about a reverse mortgage, but I've
been warned not to do that because I know it's
I think it's about one hundred thousand a year for
a rest home.
Speaker 3 (34:32):
Oh, well you have that. They if you, if your
assets have whittled down to I think if you've got
less than one hundred and seventy thousand or something, then
they you do get the subsidies. My understanding is some amount,
isn't that right?
Speaker 4 (34:42):
Yeah, it's too eighty odd now, so it's been growing
with inflation. It started off as I think one sixty
or something years ago, but it's too eighty odd now.
You'll share it. You'll share of the house, and I
think that excluded. But I think the house might even
be excluded.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
Oh, the house has excluded, definitely.
Speaker 4 (35:01):
Yes, while you're still so well, you know, you said
you probably meet the asset testing and therefore it's it'll
be the other dots and pieces that you will need
to meet. And it sounds like you will meet those
But you're just going to carry on working part time,
(35:22):
making sure that you ask for a rise every now
and again, because make sure that you're being paid for
whack being paid what you're worse and salting some of
that away and TV save.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
Thanks for your call, Lorraine, she said, as just an
out of the box idea of thinking concerning the family
homes not not taken into account. Almost wonder if you're
better to trade up into a more expensive home, lock
it all up that way. In fact, I wonder if
that would be legit if you had a if you
had a whole lot of savings and you thought it
was going to be whittled away by the by the
subsidy that you're having to pay for your partner being
(36:00):
in care, wonder whether you could get away with that.
It's like, well, I've bought another house, I've had to
move to a different area, and I had to spend
another million dollars on it.
Speaker 4 (36:09):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
I like the sound of that, but it sounds like
a random thought and probably a little off topic. Gosh,
time flies, We're twelve minutes to twelve minutes to sex.
We'll have to take a moment. Martin we'll come back
and just to take her. This's is news Talks. He'd
be yes, News Talks. He'd be back with Martin Hores
and let's go to Barbara.
Speaker 6 (36:27):
Hi, Barbara, Oh Hi, Tim Gosh, that was quick. I
just came up with a name instead of retirement or
the golden years. It really does sound as if you're
sitting somewhere waiting for God, doesn't.
Speaker 3 (36:41):
It doesn't anyway? What's your doing.
Speaker 6 (36:46):
For some days? Are you still working? No, I'm in
my leisure years.
Speaker 3 (36:50):
Well that leisure years, it's all right. But again, if
I covers.
Speaker 6 (36:54):
It, well, it covers quite a spectrum, doesn't it. Leisure doing,
Charita will work, or you can be trotting around the world.
Speaker 4 (37:05):
I certainly like that best of what I've heard. I'm
just not sure that it would roll off your tongue
and everybody would know exactly what you were meaning when
you said it the first time.
Speaker 6 (37:16):
Well, once they got once the sister word got into
the system and people started using it like anything. Really,
you've got to get used to it.
Speaker 3 (37:24):
And yeah, well possibly, yep, thanks.
Speaker 6 (37:27):
Thanks came into my head while I was doing the crossword.
That's also I thought i'd give it a go.
Speaker 3 (37:33):
Thanks Barbara. Nice to hear from you. Okay, we've got
one here. Let's see how much time we got. No, no,
we've got time for it.
Speaker 4 (37:41):
Hi.
Speaker 3 (37:41):
I was sixty five last year and I have tried
to reduce my working days to three. I've got about
two fifteen key we saver two seventy in term deposits,
so half a million bucks basically a freehold property worth
about one point seven I'd like to continue working for myself,
but I'm conscious about not having enough to actually finish
fully of a pretty low lifestyle spending. Have you got
(38:03):
any advice that's from Jane? No specific finance, still vice Jones,
but any thought their thoughts there, Martin, he's probably Jane.
Speaker 4 (38:11):
Sorry, he's probably got enough to have what they call
a choice's lifestyle, or maybe it's maybe it's a little
bit sure for that one of the things I'd be
talking to him about. Some one of our listeners brought
it up before, and that's the so called home equity
release or reverse reverse mortgage. There's a second way of
(38:35):
doing that, and it was advertised actually during one of
the breaks this afternoon by a Lifetime Home I used
to be a director of that company. I'm not anymore,
but it's basically to use your home from age seventy
to get income. The other thing that you need to
be aware of in this or this retirement income thing
(38:57):
is that although if you're retired at say sixty eight,
he's still probably quite active, quite relatively young. You're still
going to be out doing things. You're going to be
playing goal for rock climbing or skime whatever.
Speaker 3 (39:09):
If you want, that's what you're doing.
Speaker 4 (39:11):
Yeah, and they cost. But gradually, as you get older,
the cost that you need for a living reduces. And this,
I mean, this has been well studied and it happens
kind of naturally so that as we move into our eighties,
we just start and automatically spend less. So there's a
(39:33):
little bit of comfort in that. So I mean James
has you know, he's got five hundred odd um, he's
got six hundred odd thousand there. He could spend you know,
maybe twenty thousand dollars a year at the beginning, knowing
that later on he's going to be down to five
or ten. On top of which you have New Zealand's.
Speaker 3 (39:55):
That sort of ties them with I mean, there are
people who obviously do very hard trades, and they'd be
dying to give up the tools, you know, if they've
had a hard manulation. And I'm aware that that it's
a different equation for everyone. But I guess my approach is,
if I'm old enough to enjoy the life is when
I get to that age. If I'm old enough, if
I'm fit enough to enjoy the same things as I was.
(40:17):
You know, once I hit sixty, before I hit sixty five,
I'd just keep living my life in the same way.
I just ignore the number and keep cranking on. I
imagine there are a lot of and as we see
that you mentioned that number at the start, that's changed
from a nine to eighty seven to fifteen percent of
people in retirement age sixty five sixty nine working Now
it's forty eight percent. That number is just going to
go up, isn't it, Martin.
Speaker 4 (40:37):
Yes, it is, and it's partly driven by financial matters,
but it's also driven by the fact that we are
better medically, and we feel younger, and we are more
able to do stuff.
Speaker 3 (40:49):
Great. Hey, great to talk Martin. And if you want
Martin's book, go to any book good book seller. It's
called Retirement Reading. It's hot off the press and my
producers reading it and she said it's a fantastic read. Hey,
next week, we've got a fantastic show lined up. We've
got a new guests, Melissa Greeno and Terio, designer for
One Roof Parents Squad. We got the principal of Vanguard
Military School and the Health Hub next weekend. It is
(41:09):
Ashley Bloomfield, the former Director General. So lots to look
forward to next weekend. To catch you soon.
Speaker 1 (41:20):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to News
Talk sed Be weekends from three pm, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio
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