All Episodes

April 15, 2024 57 mins

The prophet Joseph Smith’s final years in Nauvoo, IL constituted a season of rich theological and ritual convergence. It was a time when various threads of biblical and revealed theology gave birth to the Latter-day temple rituals that would enable us to enact that very theology. It was in Nauvoo that the picture became clear. Every revealed ordinance builds with deep meaning to the next, until finally reaching the pinnacle ordinance of sealing wife and husband together for eternity. All theological and ritual threads come together at this point. 

In this episode of Church History Matters, we dig into when and where the ritual of marriage sealings first began in the Church and explore the tight weave between this ordinance and the theological threads of God’s true nature, the existence of Heavenly Mother, and mankind’s created purpose and destiny. 

For show notes and transcript for this and other episodes go to https://doctrineandcovenantscentral.org/church-history-matters-podcast/   

Mark as Played
Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Scott Woodward (00:05):
The Prophet Joseph Smith's final years in Nauvoo,
Illinois constituted a season of richtheological and ritual convergence.
It was a time when various threadsof biblical and revealed theology
gave birth to the Latter dayTemple rituals that would enable
us to enact that very theology.
It was in Nauvoo thatthe picture became clear.

(00:27):
Every revealed ordinance builds withdeep meaning to the next, until finally
reaching the pinnacle ordinance of sealingwife and husband together for eternity.
All theological and ritual threadscome together at this point.
In today's episode of Church HistoryMatters we dig into when and where the
ritual of marriage sealings first beganin the church and explore the tight

(00:50):
weave between this ordinance and thetheological threads of God's true nature,
the existence of Heavenly Mother, andmankind's created purpose and destiny.
I'm Scott Woodward, and my co-hostis Casey Griffiths, and today Casey
and I dive into our fifth episodein this series about the development
of Latter-day Saint temple worship.

(01:10):
Now let's get into it.
Casey Griffiths.
How we doing, sir?

Casey Paul Griffiths (01:24):
Good.
How are you doing, Scott?

Scott Woodward (01:26):
Lovely.

Casey Paul Griffiths (01:27):
Boy, we may have bitten off more
than we can chew this time.
And it was funny because after,like, speeding to get through all
the Masonic stuff last time, I wasthinking, “Oh, this will be a breeze.
We've already sort of covered this when wetalked about plural marriage,” but boy was
there a lot happening in Nauvoo roundaboutthe spring of 1842 into the fall of 1843.

(01:49):
There's just a lot going on.

Scott Woodward (01:51):
It is theologically and ritualistically dense.

Casey Paul Griffiths (01:56):
Yeah.

Scott Woodward (01:56):
It's a very dense time period, and a lot of really
important things are coming together.
Really it's the convergenceof, like, everything.

Casey Paul Griffiths (02:03):
Yeah.

Scott Woodward (02:03):
It's all converging, right?
Like, there's some cool stories aboutJoseph's life being spared because
he said his work was not yet done,and then in 1844 he'll say that
he's now as liable to die as anyman because his work is finished.

Casey Paul Griffiths (02:17):
Yeah.

Scott Woodward (02:18):
And so you think about that in terms of what's happening 1843 and
into the beginning of 1844, like, this isthe culmination of Joseph Smith's work.
And we've talked about how the temple, inits completed state, with all the rituals
and the theology embedded in it, reallyis the prototype of the Restoration.
Like, this is the thing that wewant to now take to the whole world.

(02:38):
We want to get temples everywhere to getmen and women into the temples so they
can receive all the blessings that arepromised there, and it's all embedded
in this incredibly rich theology that'sunfolding in Nauvoo at the same time the
rituals are being finalized and developed.
I mean, it's
. . . Casey Paul Griffiths: That's a lot.
What a ride.
Yeah.

Casey Paul Griffiths (02:55):
I think of that Truman Madsen statement where
he said Joseph lived his life “increscendo.” If these last few months
of his life are really where thewhole picture starts to come into
focus, there's so much happening.
And sometimes it is helpful to kind ofput it all in relative time to each other.
Like, last time we realizedhe becomes a Mason.

(03:16):
He goes back to working on the book ofAbraham, starts the Relief Society and
gives the first endowments all withinabout three months of each other, and so
all those things, at least in a timelinekind of way, overlap with each other, and
when you start looking at that, you cansee how they influence each other, too.

Scott Woodward (03:34):
Definitely some cross-pollinating happening here.

Casey Paul Griffiths (03:36):
Yeah.

Scott Woodward (03:36):
It's all related.
These are all interconnected threads.

Casey Paul Griffiths (03:39):
Yeah.
So I'm anxious to get to this, but we wantto make sure that you're with us, too,
so let's recap what we've talked about—

Scott Woodward (03:45):
Yeah.

Casey Paul Griffiths (03:45):
—before.
So this series on temples, which Ithink we're up to, like, 10 episodes.

Scott Woodward (03:52):
In our head, at least.

Casey Paul Griffiths (03:53):
In our head.

Scott Woodward (03:54):
What's today?
Today's number five?

Casey Paul Griffiths (03:55):
Today's number five, but we were sitting there going,
“Oh, we need an episode to do this and anepisode to do this,” but in our previous
episodes we talked about how templeskind of grow out of the Book of Mormon.
It starts with this idea of theBook of Mormon prophesies that
there's going to be a new Jerusalem.
And what do you build if you'regoing to create a Jerusalem?
What makes Jerusalem special?

(04:16):
The temples there.
Now, a lot of people would ask, kindof, why do we even need a temple?
Like, a lot of Protestant people wouldsay, hey, Jesus sacrifices himself.
The Book of Mormon itself saysanimal sacrifice is no longer needed.
The Savior says your sacrifice is going tobe a broken heart and a contrite spirit.
So why temples at all?

(04:37):
Didn't Jesus's atonement take away theneed for a temple, a need for a house?
How does that change things?
And how would you answerthat question, Scott?

Scott Woodward (04:46):
Oh, that's a fantastic question.
I think our Protestant friends aresometimes confused by Latter-day
Saint temple building, right?
Because, yeah, Jesus once-for-allsacrifice ended the need for temples,
and didn't he send his Holy Spiritto indwell within us, and didn't
Paul say that we, collectively as achurch, are now the temple of God?
And I think those are all good points.

(05:07):
And we accept all of that astrue, actually, to a point, right?
It's true that Old Testament-styletemples are not needful because Christ
was the great and last sacrifice.
It's also true that we as a body ofbelievers are, in one sense at least,
the collective temple of God inwhom God's spirit can dwell, right?
We're totally okay with that.
But the Book of Mormon addsmore to that story, right?

(05:28):
During his resurrected ministry in theAmericas, that's where we're going to have
some things that the Bible doesn't have.
Jesus gives some clear prophecies thatare not found anywhere in the Bible.
He tells Lehi's descendants, forinstance, this is what you're just
mentioning about the New Jerusalem.
He says to them that in the future he'sgoing to establish their descendants
in this land of the Americas, whichhe said will be, “a New Jerusalem.”

(05:51):
he then says that converted Gentileswill one day join with the house of
Israel, “That they may build a citywhich shall be called the New Jerusalem.
And then shall they assist my people thatthey may be gathered in who are scattered
in unto the new Jerusalem, and then shallthe power of heaven come down among them,
and I also will be in their midst.” That'swhat's motivating early church members.

(06:14):
This does not grow out of the Bibleor an understanding of the Bible.
This grows out of the Book of Mormon andJesus's additional prophecies there about
the coming of the New Jerusalem, so—

Casey Paul Griffiths (06:23):
Yeah.

Scott Woodward (06:23):
—that's why only six months after the church is organized,
Oliver Cowdery sets out to identify thelocation of this New Jerusalem, right?
To raise up a pillar, as he said, as awitness “where the temple of God shall
be built in the glorious New Jerusalem.”You know, we talked about how by July
of 1831, the Lord himself confirms thatIndependence, Missouri is the center

(06:44):
place for the city of Zion, and hepoints out the exact spot for the temple.
That's D&C 57.
A little over a year later, September1832, he says that the city of the New
Jerusalem will be built by the gatheringof the saints beginning at this place,
even the place of the temple, whichtemple shall be reared in this generation.
That's D&C 84.
So there you go.
We can see that, right?

(07:04):
That the growth is coming outof the Book of Mormon, not from
any sort of Biblical prophecies.
And so I have compassion for anyof my Protestant friends who don't
understand this, but I would say as away to try to understand this line of
thinking and reasoning and practiceto see it as growing out of the Book
of Mormon, and hopefully that helpsmake sense of why we do what we do.

Casey Paul Griffiths (07:25):
Yeah.
That's been a big surprise for me inthis series, is I think I tended to think
that the Book of Mormon was sort of likeprimer, like, here's the basics, and then
the Doctrine and Covenants is sort ofthe AP-level course, but most of these
ideas originate with the Book of Mormon.
Even the temple liturgy, in a lotof ways, is tied back to the central

(07:47):
ideas taught in the Book of Mormon.

Scott Woodward (07:48):
And then the Doctrine and Covenants kind of fleshes it out, right?

Casey Paul Griffiths (07:51):
Yeah, the Doctrine and Covenants is like the nitty
gritty, here's what we're gonna do.
So, the Book of Mormon will say, let'sbuild the New Jerusalem, and the Doctrine
and Covenants, here's the location ofthe New Jerusalem, and documents that
go beyond the Doctrine and Covenantsbut are treated as revelations by
the saints, twenty-four templesat the heart of the New Jerusalem.
They call them temples.
In the revelations the Lord refers to itas a temple, and they launch that project

(08:15):
to build this enormous temple complex inthe heart of the city of Zion, which is
planned to be where Independence, Missouriis, and then the Lord also gives them
the command in 1832 to build a templein Kirtland as well, and that is the
famous Kirtland Temple that everybody'sbeen talking about so much recently.
Because of persecution in Independencethey're forced to leave before they can

(08:37):
even really do anything to build evenone of the twenty-four temples there.
So their efforts go into buildingthe Kirtland Temple, and Kirtland
does become the first templededicated in this dispensation.
Now, we've talked in previousepisodes about the events linked
to the Kirtland Temple dedication.
It's this huge Pentecostal experience thatclimaxes with Jesus Christ appearing along

(08:59):
with Moses, Elijah, and Elias, and all theevents surrounding the Kirtland Temple and
its dedication are sort of an endowment.
Endowment is a word we use todaythat's synonymous with the ordinance
of endowment, but endowment backthen meant gift, something that
God was going to bless you with.
In the Kirtland Temple they're blessed tohave the appearance of heavenly beings.

(09:19):
They are blessed to have this sort ofearly ceremony where people are washed
and anointed and pronounced clean, and ofcourse the other endowment is they receive
these priesthood keys from these ancientprophets that appear along Jesus Christ.
And this is all the endowment, right?
I think that's what we're goingwith is that the endowment is
everything that happens in Kirtland.

Scott Woodward (09:41):
These are incredible gifts of power.
We leave Kirtland, Ohio way more empoweredthan when we first showed up there, right?

Casey Paul Griffiths (09:48):
Yeah.

Scott Woodward (09:49):
Now we've got a institutional memory
of the spiritual outpourings.
We've got additional scripturethat came during that time period.
We highlighted D&C 137 as a coolexample, and now we've got the keys
restored by Moses, Elias, and Elijah.
We've talked about it asthe puzzle pieces, right?
All the puzzle pieces are now given toJoseph Smith, and then he moves from

(10:11):
Kirtland over to northern Missouri andthen into Nauvoo to try to figure out how
to use the keys and the theological piecesthat he's been receiving, how to put that
all together in a way that can maximizeGod's purposes with the human family.
How can we bring about Zion?
How can we bring about, you know, thefulfillment of the potential of mankind?

(10:31):
And so all of these questionsare weighing on Joseph.
He's got the keys to do it, but theydidn't come with an instruction manual.

Casey Paul Griffiths (10:38):
Yeah.
I think the analogy we've beenusing is that Joseph Smith is given
all the puzzle pieces in Kirtland—

Scott Woodward (10:44):
Yeah.

Casey Paul Griffiths (10:44):
—but it still takes him time to put them together.

Scott Woodward (10:46):
Yeah.

Casey Paul Griffiths (10:46):
And unfortunately that doesn't happen in Kirtland.
One of the greatest spiritual seasonsin the history of the church is
followed by some intense financialdifficulties that in turn leads
to one of the greatest seasons ofapostasy in the history of the church.
Unfortunately, they're forcedto abandon the Kirtland Temple.
Joseph moves to Missouri where theytry to build two more temples, one

(11:06):
at Far West, one at Adam-ondi-Ahman,but leaving Kirtland for Missouri
was kind of an “out of the fryingpan, into the fire” situation.

Scott Woodward (11:14):
Yeah.

Casey Paul Griffiths (11:14):
At Adam-ondi-Ahman, all they do is dedicate the site.
At Far West all they're able todo is lay the cornerstones, and
they are evicted from Missouriunder threat of an extermination.

Scott Woodward (11:24):
That'll do it, wouldn't it?

Casey Paul Griffiths (11:25):
That'll do it.

Scott Woodward (11:25):
That would put a kibosh on any temple plans.

Casey Paul Griffiths (11:29):
Yeah.

Scott Woodward (11:30):
When a governor puts a target on your back.

Casey Paul Griffiths (11:32):
I hate it when my wife and I are getting ready to
go to the temple and all of a suddenthere's an extermination order.
You know, it just ruins everything.

Scott Woodward (11:38):
It's the worst.

Casey Paul Griffiths (11:40):
It's not great.

Scott Woodward (11:40):
It's the worst.

Casey Paul Griffiths (11:53):
So where do all the pieces come together?
Nauvoo.

Scott Woodward (11:56):
So they regroup in Nauvoo.

Casey Paul Griffiths: They regroup in Nauvoo. (11:57):
undefined
I mean, in Nauvoo, in a lot of ways,they're able to build from scratch.
There's barely a town there calledCommerce, Illinois, and, I mean,
physically and spiritually they kindof reconstruct the church from the
wreckage left over after Kirtland andMissouri, and a big part of it is to
piece together the theology surroundingthe work for the dead, so it starts with

(12:18):
proxy baptisms for the dead, which JosephSmith first explains in August of 1840.
That's later on moved to be somethingthat happens inside the temple, and then
Joseph Smith starts to reconstruct theendowment with the tools that he has now.

Scott Woodward (12:35):
What do you mean by reconstruct?

Casey Paul Griffiths (12:37):
Well, I mean, there was a ceremony called the
endowment of power that was givenin Kirtland, but what Joseph Smith
is going to sort of put together inNauvoo is that plus so much more.

Scott Woodward (12:49):
So you're talking about the washing and anointing and blessing
in Kirtland is built upon in Nauvoo.

Casey Paul Griffiths (12:54):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And in this case, I mean, the evidencesuggests that Joseph Smith used his
prophetic authority, used revelationfrom the Spirit, to assemble together
the endowment that we're now familiarwith from a number of sources.
We talked about how probably the mostimportant source is his translation of
the Bible and teachings taught in theBible, but the Book of Mormon, the Book

(13:16):
of Abraham, even Masonic ritual are allsort of combined to create the endowment
ceremony that we're familiar with.
And even in this case, I don't knowif we're 100 percent sure to say that
Joseph finished what he was doing.
It feels like it was more likehe was laying the foundation.

Scott Woodward (13:32):
He doesn't seem to be entirely satisfied by the time he's done
with how it was all arranged, right?

Casey Paul Griffiths (13:37):
Yeah, he's continuing to work on it.
For example, in 1842, after BrighamYoung was given his endowment, Joseph
Smith told him, “Brother Brigham,this is not arranged perfectly.
However, we have done the bestwe could under the circumstances
in which we are placed.
I wish you to take this matter inhand, organize, and systematize all

(13:57):
these ceremonies.” So it's almostlike Brigham Young is being given the
raw materials, too, and Joseph Smithis saying, I'm doing the best I can.
I mean, when he says, I can'tarrange this perfectly, they
don't have a temple, for instance.
I mean—

Scott Woodward (14:09):
Yeah.

Casey Paul Griffiths (14:10):
—they're doing this in the Red Brick
Store, and so it's really in St.
George, the first temple built in theIntermountain West, where Brigham Young
and Wilford Woodruff both sit down.
They're using Wilford's journals, and theysystematize that, and that's going to be
the focus of a later episode, so hang on.
We'll get to that.

Scott Woodward (14:26):
Bookmark that for a future episode.
Okay.
So this kind of makes it clearthat this is a line-upon-line
sort of work in progress, right?
Joseph's saying it's not perfect yet.
It's good enough for, you know, thesaints in Nauvoo at that time, but
it's going to be refined further.
It's going to be organized andsystematized, to use his words.
And we can see that that's exactlywhat Joseph is doing, as you mentioned.

(14:48):
He's bringing together differentstrands, different threads.
The Bible translation, Book of Mormon,Book of Abraham, a dash of Masonic
forms and ritual structure, kind ofpiecing this together, synthesizing
it in such a way as to be meaningfulas a covenant-making ceremony, helping
men and women progress, but it'snot, in his mind, perfect in 1842.

(15:08):
It's got to be refined further.

Casey Paul Griffiths (15:09):
Yeah.
And I would also add that JosephSmith wasn't saying it wasn't

complete (15:13):
he was saying it needs to be organized and systematized.
And that's something that'sstill going on today, right?
Like, if you go to the temple and yougo through the endowment, you're not
doing exactly what they did in Nauvoo.

Scott Woodward (15:25):
Or St.
George.

Casey Paul Griffiths (15:26):
Or St.
George.

Scott Woodward (15:27):
Or Utah five years ago.

Casey Paul Griffiths (15:30):
Yeah.

Scott Woodward (15:31):
It keeps changing.
Yeah.

Casey Paul Griffiths (15:32):
This was meant to be a living ceremony that Joseph Smith's
prophetic successors who hold the keys hadthe right to change and alter according
to the circumstances that they exist in.
So the covenants are going to be thesame, and the principles are going
to be the same, but the way that wedo it, the organization of it, is
subject to change, and I expect thereto be more changes in the future.

Scott Woodward (15:53):
Yeah.
Good point.
They can organize andsystematize it further.

Casey Paul Griffiths (15:56):
Yeah.

Scott Woodward (15:57):
Okay, so we've got baptisms for the dead in Nauvoo.
We've got what we'd call initiatoriestoday, which is the washing and
anointing, which he introduced that sameday as he did the endowment ceremony.
They just went into his office in theback of the Red Brick Store on the second
floor to do the washings and anointings.
There's records of people bringing upbuckets of water to do that first piece.
And then he's introducedthe endowment ceremony.

(16:18):
This is on May the 4th, 1842.
So the endowment ceremonyis more or less in place.
Now, today we want to talkabout the next step, right?
The next step is, how does he usethe keys he received back in Kirtland
to seal, to create eternal families?

Casey Paul Griffiths (16:35):
And there's a lot of different things we could talk about.
Like I said, I thought this was goingto be a simple episode, but sealing
includes sealings for the living.
It includes proxy sealings for the dead.
A sealing can sometimes refer to thesecond anointing or having a calling
and election made sure, and then therewere adoptive sealings in Nauvoo.
So all this stuff's coming together,and we need to point out that

(16:59):
this is not happening in a vacuum.
Everything's overlapping with eachother, and it's all happening at the same
time, but we're going to try and pullout those noodles from the spaghetti,
basically, and say, “Here's what thisis, and here's what this is, and you
put it all together and it's delicious.”

Scott Woodward (17:14):
Put a little sauce on it.
Mm.

Casey Paul Griffiths: Put a little sauce on it. (17:16):
undefined
Mm-hmm.

Scott Woodward (17:17):
Okay.
So today's temple spaghetti.
Our extemporaneous analogies are—

Casey Paul Griffiths: We're getting pretty good. (17:24):
undefined

Scott Woodward (17:25):
I mean, we're getting pretty something.
So, spaghetti strand number one.
Let's talk about something that'shanging in the air in Nauvoo from

(17:49):
really the time they get there,and I'm talking about death and
how much of it there was in Nauvoo.

Casey Paul Griffiths (17:56):
One source indicates that the number of people that were dying
in Nauvoo was higher than when we weredealing with COVID a couple years ago.
So death rate at the timehovered about thirty deaths
per thousand people in Nauvoo.
To put that in perspective, that'sabout three times the death rate at
the height of COVID-19, which was abouteight or nine deaths per thousand.

(18:18):
So death is omnipresent.
That's being constantly put in their face.
They've lost people in Missouri becauseof the persecutions, and they've lost
people in Nauvoo just because it wasa tough environment to start over in.
And so death is one thing.

Scott Woodward (18:32):
Yeah.
We would probably say that death is oneof the, I guess, two major problems that
the temple is going to solve, right?
Not that living after death was theirprimary concern or that they thought that
temples would help them live after death.
That's not what we're talking about.

Casey Paul Griffiths (18:48):
Yeah.

Scott Woodward (18:49):
Like other Christians, Latter-day Saints believe that Jesus
Christ has already conquered death andhas ensured that all mankind will be
resurrected, so they didn't believethey needed a temple for that, but even
for those who accept and acknowledgethe reality of the resurrection,
one important and nagging questionstill remained uncertain, which is

(19:09):
what's going to be the nature of ourrelationships in the resurrection, right?
Like, will we be with our loved ones?
Will we still associate as husband,wife, children, grandparents, friends?
Or are we going to lose all these specialrelationships after the resurrection?
There's a real fear anduncertainty in that, right?
We all feel that keenly when aloved one passes away, and they felt

(19:30):
it just as keenly back then, anddeath was all around at the time.
And so certainly that'son the mind, right?

Casey Paul Griffiths (19:37):
Yeah.
And, I mean, the temple is meant tosolve part of this problem, right?
They believe that they'regoing to overcome death.
The Book of Mormon teachesthat all will be resurrected.
So does the Bible.
But a major question, and peoplestill wrestle this—with this today,
is what's life like after death?
Like, what's our life going tobe like in the resurrection?
What's the nature of our relationships?

Scott Woodward (19:58):
Is it possible for loving relationships to endure eternally?
I mean, that's a good question.
That's one of the deepestlongings of the human soul, right?
And that thread, that spaghetti noodleof the concerns of death and the
longing to make loving relationshipseternally enduring, is tied back to
the Malachi prophecy that Moroni wasso interested in telling Joseph about

(20:21):
when he was 17 and that Joseph is goingto continue to develop and think about
and preach about in Nauvoo, about isit possible to connect children and
parents and parents and children?
And if parents and children areconnected, doesn't that imply
that the parents are connected?
Fathers is the biblicalword for the parents.
The parents are eternally connected,and their children are then
eternally connected to them, andthat connection then spans all

(20:45):
the way back down to Adam and Eve.
Like, is that really possible?
And could the keys that Joseph receivedin Kirtland from Elijah be connected
to Jesus's phrase that he said toPeter back in Matthew 16 where he told
Peter that there was this power thatcould bind on earth and in heaven?

Casey Paul Griffiths (21:01):
Mm-hmm.

Scott Woodward (21:02):
Joseph makes all those connections in Nauvoo and says
yes, and he calls the keys givenby Elijah “the sealing power of the
kingdom.” And this is where we'restarting to see this coalesce, right?
That the keys given by Elijahmake possible the eternalizing
of human relationships.
I mean, that's a big deal.

Casey Paul Griffiths: That's a really big deal. (21:21):
undefined
And it's a key point thatpeople need to understand if
they really want to understandLatter-day Saint temple beliefs.

Scott Woodward (21:28):
Yeah.
Absolutely.
And like we've been trying topoint out, this did not just
come all at once for Joseph.
This is coming line upon line.
It's growing.
It's developing in Nauvoo.
So that's problem number one, right,is this problem of death and the
eternalizing of human relationships.
Could those keys given in Kirtland helpsolve this problem in a temple context?
Yes.

Casey Paul Griffiths (21:48):
Yeah.

Scott Woodward (21:49):
There's also the problem, Casey, that I would call
the problem of human potential.
It's not that human potential is aproblem, it's that achieving human
potential is a problem because wecan't do it without divine help, right?

Casey Paul Griffiths (22:01):
So what do you mean by human potential?
How would you frame that, and whatexactly are we going for here?

Scott Woodward (22:07):
Well, the scriptural framing of human potential is really
important to keep in mind if youwant to understand temple theology.
This is huge.
We've got to start fromthe very beginning.
Let me do a quick version, okay?
So Genesis chapter 1.
There's this line when humans are firstintroduced in the creation story in
Genesis 1:26-27 where men and womenare created in the image of God.

(22:29):
God says “let them have dominionover all the earth.” Boom.
Those are some of the first words used byGod to explain why mankind was created.
So this is a huge piece.

Casey Paul Griffiths (22:41):
Yeah.

Scott Woodward (22:42):
As God's image bearers, those who are in the image of God,
we were created to have dominion.
And that's just a little hint at thevery beginning of the biblical record.
Then if you jump over to the very endof the biblical record in the book of
Revelation, we see the Apostle John hasa visionary sequence of the two-part
endgame of this planet, and he firstsees resurrected men and women sitting

(23:02):
upon royal thrones as what he callspriests of God, reigning on the earth
with Christ for a thousand years.
Right, so that's part one.
And then second, he then sees thepost-Millennium renewal of this earth
and the time when God the Father willpersonally come to this planet to dwell
with the faithful, where together theyshall reign forever and ever, John says.

(23:23):
And then affirming that biblical picture,Restoration scripture, like section 88,
declares that this earth will ultimatelybe sanctified from all unrighteousness
“that it may be prepared for the celestialglory, when it shall be crowned with the
presence of God the Father, and whereresurrected men and women who are of
the Celestial Kingdom,” it says, “willpossess it forever and ever.” So with

(23:44):
that kind of a simple scriptural sketch,we see mankind's destiny and the full
measure of our creation is, A, to dwell onthis earth in its renewed and sanctified
state forever in the presence of God andHis Christ, and then B, to be co-rulers
with them as priests of God, John theRevelator says, or section 76 uses the

(24:05):
title priests and kings, or Church of theFirstborn, to talk about these people.
Now, that same phrase is used by Johnthe Revelator, by the way, in his first
chapter of the book of Revelation.
He says that “Jesus Christ lovedus and washed us from our sins
in his own blood and hath madeus kings and priests unto God.
And in Nauvoo church leaders will addthe female corollary of that, queens

(24:27):
and priestesses, to John's phrase.
And so these phrases start to expressthis ultimate potential of all men and
women to become kings and queens, priestsand priestesses, in the kingdom of God,
to rule and reign with Him forever.
This is the fulfilling of the potentialsketched briefly in Genesis chapter 1,
to have dominion over all the earth,to rule and reign as God's image

(24:50):
bearers on this earth in a godly way.
And so if you understand thatmuch of humankind potential, like,
now you start to see how templetheology begins to flesh that out.

Casey Paul Griffiths (25:13):
I can kind of see where you're leading, that this is hinting
towards celestial marriage and sealings,and how they tie into not only life after
death, but what life after death is likefor those that make covenants with God.

Scott Woodward (25:26):
Yeah, if we want to achieve our fullest potential, we've got
to do it through a covenant relationshipsolidified through ritual with Christ.
Like, we can only do it, as Johnsaid, through the blood of Christ.
And I think this is a good moment topoint out that all of the ordinances are
interconnected with each other, right?
That they build upon each other,that they're actually different

(25:49):
pieces of a grander whole.
And so it's not like you should putcelestial marriage over here in this
box, and then the endowment over herein this one, and washing and anointing
over here, and baptism over there.
They're all interconnected, right?
Like Jesus says you've got to bebaptized, in John chapter 3, to
enter into the kingdom of heaven.
All right, let's call that entryrequirement, but it's one thing

(26:09):
to be born into the kingdom ofheaven, and it's another thing to
be invited to sit on the thronewith God to rule and reign with him.
Like, those are two differentthings, and so baptism gets you in.
Washing/anointing helps you bewashed and anointed to become a
king and a queen, a priest and apriestess, as President David O.
McKay said.
Like, we're preparingfor that eventuality.

(26:30):
And then the endowment ceremonyoutlines the covenants that we
need to make and keep in order toenter into God's presence, right?
Which is ritualized as wego into the celestial room.
And then comes the final piece,which is temple marriage.
So always keep these connected.
This is a string of pearls.
These ordinances are pearls on astring which, put together, create

(26:52):
basically, like, the way in whichwe are able to achieve our full
potential, if that makes sense.

Casey Paul Griffiths (26:58):
Yeah, the pearl string analogy is maybe even better
than the plate of spaghetti analogy.

Scott Woodward (27:04):
That's a good point.

Casey Paul Griffiths (27:04):
Because the plate of spaghetti suggests that it's a jumble.
And this really is sort of progressive.
Like, it's a sequence.

Scott Woodward (27:11):
Yes.

Casey Paul Griffiths (27:11):
And the way that it's presented in the
church today is as a sequence.
This happens, then this happens, then thishappens, and this unlocks all these doors.

Scott Woodward (27:19):
That's right.
It builds line upon line, and if wesee them as pieces of a whole, I think
it helps us to see the picture betterthan to think of them as separate
and distinct from each other, right?

Casey Paul Griffiths (27:29):
And there's hints that it's going to be this case.
For instance, the Book of Mormon, whenit describes the ideal society, says
they were married and given in marriage.
In the Doctrine and Covenants in section49, the Lord says marriage is ordained of
God, meaning it was put in place by God.
And he even goes so far in section 49 asto say that the earth might answer the end
of its creation, that this is a big partof the reason why the earth was created.

(27:53):
This is why we have anearth to begin with.
And it's a big part of Josephassembling all this theology together.

Scott Woodward (28:00):
Yeah.
So let's talk about eternal marriage.
How does that first come aboutin the church in Nauvoo, both the
theology of it and the practice of it?

Casey Paul Griffiths (28:08):
So one of the earliest hints is given
when Joseph speaks to Parley P.
Pratt in, I believe it's 1840.
Joseph Smith goes to Washington D.
C.
to try and sort out what's happeningwith the Saints in Missouri, try to get
the federal government to intervene.
While he's there hetravels to Philadelphia.
Parley P.
Pratt meets with him there.
He's on his way to his mission inEngland, I believe, and Parley talks

(28:32):
about having a conversation withJoseph, so this is in Parley P.
Pratt's autobiography.
He says, “It was Joseph Smith who taughtme of marriage for eternity, that the true
dignity and destiny of a son of God isto be clothed with an eternal priesthood
as the patriarch and sovereign of hiscountless offspring, that the highest
dignity of a woman is to stand as a queenand priestess to her husband, and to reign

(28:55):
forever and ever as a queen mother of hernumerous and still-increasing offspring.”

Scott Woodward (29:00):
Whoa.
That's 1840.

Casey Paul Griffiths: That's pretty early, right? (29:02):
undefined

Scott Woodward (29:04):
That's early.

Casey Paul Griffiths (29:05):
Yeah, it is.
And notice how the next thing hewrites kind of talks about how
knowing this teaching changes hisviews on marriage, what family means.
Parley says, “I had lovedbefore, but I knew not why.
But now I love with a pureness andintensity of elevated, exalted feeling
which would lift my soul from thetransitory things of this groveling

(29:28):
sphere and expand it as the ocean.
I felt that God was my Heavenly Father.
Indeed, that Jesus was my brother, andthat the wife of my bosom was an immortal,
eternal companion, a kind, ministeringangel, a crown of glory forever and ever.”

Scott Woodward (29:43):
That's beautiful, man.

Casey Paul Griffiths (29:44):
Yeah.

Scott Woodward (29:45):
I think he might have just coined the term eternal companion there.
Is that the earliest referenceto eternal companion?

Casey Paul Griffiths (29:51):
I don't know.

Scott Woodward (29:52):
Wow.
That's beautiful language.
The power of the doctrine of eternalmarriage to change our views of
people that we already love, right?
He says it took it from goodto great, elevated it with a
pureness and intensity and exaltedfeeling he had never felt before.
That's so beautiful.
I remember when I was a teenager,President Hinckley said, “The Lord has

(30:13):
made us attractive one to another fora great purpose.” Joseph was explaining
to Parley the reason for that, right?
At least that's the highest reason.

Casey Paul Griffiths (30:21):
Yeah.

Scott Woodward (30:22):
This is intended to lead to kingship and queenship.
In fact, that's cool that Parley saysthat Joseph used the phrase queen and
priestess to describe a woman's potential.

Casey Paul Griffiths (30:32):
Yeah.

Scott Woodward (30:32):
Very cool.
Okay, so 1840, Parley P.
Pratt.
What's the next moment in church historythat we know that Joseph starts to
teach more about eternal marriage?

Casey Paul Griffiths (30:53):
Well, we'd probably jump to 1843.
Let's frame this.
This is after the endowment has beenintroduced to several men, but it's
going to introduce this new teachingthat brings together men and women.
So this happens in thislittle village called Ramus.
Ramus, Illinois is where section130 and section 131 of the

(31:14):
Doctrine and Covenants were given.
Ramus is this little town whereJoseph Smith's sisters live.
Catherine and Sophronia both livethere, and he'd often go and visit them.
He also had a number of dearfriends in the congregation, like
Benjamin and Melissa Johnson.
He takes William Clayton along withhim, and in May of 1843 he gives several
items of instruction that WilliamClayton writes down, that later on

(31:36):
Orson Pratt and Brigham Young are goingto say are so important that Clayton's
notes are added into the Doctrine andCovenants as Section 130 and Section 131.

Scott Woodward (31:45):
What would that be like, to have your notes become part
of the scriptures one day, Casey?

Casey Paul Griffiths (31:49):
It would be pretty amazing, right?

Scott Woodward (31:53):
Those are good notes.

Casey Paul Griffiths (31:53):
You can go and look up the notes by the way, too.
They're on the Joseph Smith Papers site.
Very instructive.
This is the way Benjamin describesit: he said, “In the evening Joseph
called me and my wife to come andsit down, for he wished to marry us
according to the law of the Lord.
I thought it a joke and said that Ishould not marry my wife again unless
she courted me, for I did it all thefirst time.” He makes a joke, right?

Scott Woodward (32:17):
So Joseph says, Benjamin, Melissa, come, I want to marry you
guys together according to the lawof the Lord, and he thinks it's a
joke because they're already married.
If we're going to marry, get marriedagain, then she's got to do all
the courting this time because Ihad to do it all the first time.
And Joseph's like—I just picture hisface, like, kind of straight-faced.
He's like, I'm not kidding.

Casey Paul Griffiths (32:38):
I'm not kidding.
This is the real deal.
Yeah.
He said, “He chided my levity.
He told me he was in earnest, and soit proved, for we stood up and were
sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise.”

Scott Woodward (32:48):
Is this in their living room?
He seals them by theHoly Spirit of Promise?

Casey Paul Griffiths (32:52):
Yeah.

Scott Woodward (32:52):
That's not in the temple.

Casey Paul Griffiths (32:54):
That's something most people might be surprised at,
too, is that most of the sealingsthat took place during the Nauvoo
period happened in private homes.
They didn't happen in the temple.
The temple wasn't finished.
But interestingly they also didn'thappen in the Red Brick Store,
where endowments are coming out.
It was a very intimate, personalexperience that typically happened
in a home setting, where Joseph Smithcarried out the ceremony and sealed

(33:16):
them for time and all eternity.

Scott Woodward (33:17):
Yeah.
Interesting.
And it's interesting in that momentwhen he seals Benjamin and Melissa
Johnson together, he drops a fewtheological bombs right there
in the living room, doesn't he?

Casey Paul Griffiths (33:28):
Yeah.

Scott Woodward (33:28):
This is where we get some of those notes from William Clayton
that end up in our Doctrine and Covenantssection 131, verses one through four.
Can I read those?

Casey Paul Griffiths (33:37):
Yeah, go ahead.

Scott Woodward (33:38):
So Joseph explains to them why they need to be
married according to the law ofthe Lord and be sealed together.

And here's what he says (33:44):
“In the celestial glory there are three
heavens or degrees.” Sounding familiar?
“And in order to obtain the highest,a man must enter into this order
of the priesthood,” suggesting thatBenjamin and Melissa have now entered
into an order of the priesthoodtogether, which Elder McConkie and
others will call the patriarchal order.

(34:05):
And so think about the keys.
What keys did Josephuse to do this, right?

Casey Paul Griffiths (34:09):
Yeah.

Scott Woodward (34:09):
Casey, when we talked about the Kirtland Temple and the keys
that were restored there, we talkedabout how the keys of Elias were the keys
of blessing couples with the promisesof Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, right?
It's the dispensation of thegospel of Abraham and the keys of
essentially the patriarchs, right?
These are the patriarchal keys, and thatwould make sense of what's happening here

(34:30):
if we're understanding the doctrine right.
He says, “In order to obtain the highest,a man must enter into this order of the
priesthood,” this patriarchal order.
And then Orson Pratt put bracketsthere that say, “meaning the new and
everlasting covenant of marriage.” So thatmarriage is a new order of priesthood.
Interesting.

Then he goes on (34:46):
“and if he does not, he cannot obtain it.
He may enter into the other, butthat is the end of his kingdom.
He cannot have an increase.” And thenthat's where the notes cut off in our
scriptures, but there's actually more withthat that was actually very helpful in
explaining what he meant by “they cannothave an increase.” Let me keep quoting,
actually, here from Clayton's notes.

(35:07):
He said, the Prophet Joseph said,“Except a man and his wife enter
into an everlasting covenant and bemarried for eternity while in this
probation by the power and authorityof the holy priesthood, they will
cease to increase when they die.
That is, they will not have anychildren after the resurrection.
But those who are married by the powerand authority of the priesthood in this

(35:28):
life,” he says, “and continue worthily,will continue to increase and have
children in the celestial glory.” Woo!
So this is the way thatmarriages are eternalized and
the potential for parenthoodcontinues on into the eternities.
That's a big deal.
And he taught that rightin their living room.

Casey Paul Griffiths (35:49):
Yeah.
It's kind of a cool context, too.
It sort of emphasizes thatthis is a family thing, right?
This is something that'spersonal between a couple.

Scott Woodward (35:59):
It's intimate.
It's beautiful, yeah.
And it's interesting, according to thehistory we've got, that Benjamin and
Melissa Johnson probably were not thefirst couple sealed by Joseph Smith.
The Apostle Heber C.
Kimball and his wife Vilate seemed tobe sealed by the prophet, most likely
in Joseph Smith's own home, what wecall the homestead, that the church
recently acquired from the Communityof Christ, and then Joseph and Emma are

(36:23):
also going to be sealed in that samespot in the homestead on May 28, 1843.
And other couples may alsohave been sealed there, too,
or in the mansion house.
We're not entirely sure.
So this is the season where Joseph beginsto do this privately, quietly, in homes,

like you said (36:39):
in Ramus, in Nauvoo.
It is beginning.

Casey Paul Griffiths (36:44):
Yeah.
And another thing that he teaches in Ramusthat maybe has impact here is in section
130, verse 2, where Joseph Smith teaches“the same sociality which exists among
us here will exist among us there, onlyit would be coupled with eternal glory.”
So he's thinking about an eternity wherethere's these earthly relationships that

(37:06):
persist and become eternally glorified.
And we sometimes don't appreciate howradical this was for the time, right?
Today, you know, saying a couplewill be together forever is something
that happens inside and outsidethe church, but back then Christian
theology was that marriage was a mortalthing and that it ended, you know?
“‘til death do us part.” Joseph Smith issaying if you love someone here, you're

(37:29):
going to love them there in that sense.
The same socialitypersists into the eternal.

Scott Woodward (37:33):
Yeah.
Excellent.
So glorified relationships.

Casey Paul Griffiths (37:37):
Yeah.

Scott Woodward (37:37):
Think about the best relationships you've had in this life
and then couple that with eternalglory, and that's the picture that
we're driving at here with sealings.

Casey Paul Griffiths (37:58):
So this idea of marriage that lasts beyond this
life opens a lot of doors, and one ofthem is that a significant number of
people in Nauvoo had lost a spouse,especially a wife, because it was so
dangerous to give birth back then.
Those who had lost a spouse couldalso be sealed to them for eternity.
For instance, probably the bestillustration of this is Hyrum Smith.

(38:21):
So Hyrum, who's Joseph's brother,they're close, close friends.
In Nauvoo Hyrum practically acts asassistant president of the church,
which is almost a co-presidentof the church type position.
Hyrum married a woman namedJerusha all the way back in
Palmyra, and they had five childrentogether, but Jerusha passes away.

(38:42):
There's a little monumentto her in the cemetery right
next to the Kirtland Temple.
Hyrum loses her when he's there.
Now Hyrum is raising five little childrenon his own, and so it's natural, too,
that he would remarry, which he does.
He marries Mary Fielding Smith,this vivacious British convert.
She's going to be the motherof President Joseph F.

(39:02):
Smith.
I mean, the question isgoing to come up, you know?
If you can be married eternally,Hyrum, which one are you going
to be married eternally to?
And Hyrum addresses this.
In fact, there's a sermonHyrum gives in April 1844.
This is around the same timeas the King Follett Sermon.
He said, “I married me a wife, and wehad five children, but our marriage
covenant was made for our lives only.

(39:24):
She fell into the grave.
I realized that that covenant is dead, andtherefore it had no more force, neither
could I have her in the resurrection, andit troubled me.” So there you go again,
this idea of, wait, am I going to feeldifferently about her in the eternities?

Scott Woodward (39:41):
That gnawing loss of a cherished relationship in eternity.

Casey Paul Griffiths (39:46):
Yeah.
So he said, “Brother Joseph said,you can have her sealed to you
upon the same principles as youcan be baptized for the dead.”

Scott Woodward (39:54):
So sealing for the dead.

Casey Paul Griffiths (39:56):
Yeah.

Scott Woodward (39:56):
This is the first intimation of that.

Casey Paul Griffiths: Baptism is an ordinance. (39:58):
undefined
Marriage is an ordinance.
If we can do one ordinance on behalf ofthe dead, why can't we do another one
with the powers that we've been given?
Hyrum goes on to say, “Whathonest man or woman can find
fault with a doctrine as this?
None.
It has glad tidings of great joy.” Andthen he explains, “The Lord had given
to Joseph the power to seal on Earth andin heaven those who are found worthy.

(40:22):
Having the spirit of Elijah and Elias,he has power to seal with a seal that
shall never be broken, and it shall bein force the morn of the resurrection.
We,” that means Hyrum and his wifeJerusha, “will come up in the morn
of the resurrection.” So he's goingto be able to be sealed to her.
He's also sealed to Mary Fielding, which,again, we did a whole series on plural
marriage, and this is one of the factorsthat leads to plural marriage, but the

(40:46):
basic idea is, yeah, you can be sealedto someone that's deceased as well.

Scott Woodward (40:51):
Having the keys of Elijah and Elias, he, Joseph, has power
to seal with a seal that shall neverbe broken, and it shall be enforced
in the morn of the resurrection.
I love how he invokes both keys there.
The marriage keys of Elias coupled withthe sealing power of Elijah makes possible
that eternal marriage relationship.
Beautiful.

Casey Paul Griffiths (41:09):
Yeah.

Scott Woodward (41:09):
And you point out plural marriage, Casey.

Casey Paul Griffiths (41:11):
Yeah.

Scott Woodward (41:12):
I think this is one of the major reasons that Joseph doesn't
go real public about temple marriagesor temple sealings to your spouse.
Like, in every instance we canfind, he's doing this privately.
He's teaching very faithful couples thisin their homes, in their living room, like
he did with Benjamin and Melissa Johnson.
He's not giving any sermonsto the masses about this.

(41:35):
Hyrum is the exception here.
This April 1844 sermon you justquoted from, he basically says that
this is a teaching that Joseph hadtaught him, but again, Hyrum is
saying, Joseph taught me, privately.
Joseph's not getting real publicabout this, and I think you can see
why this would be a gnarly issue inreference to plural marriage, right?
Because a lot of people have had spouseswho've died, and they've remarried.

(41:56):
So if there's a power to seal to boththe living and the dead, and I get
sealed to my dead spouse, and I'mcurrently married to a living spouse,
then is this not plural marriage?
And the answer, of course,would be, well, yeah, in the
resurrection, most likely, you know?
Unless one or the other of you havea problem with that, then I'm sure
another arrangement can be made, butthe implication of this is clearly it

(42:19):
leads toward the possibility of pluralmarriages, and the fact that Joseph was
already practicing plural marriages,and some others of church leaders were
doing that quietly in Nauvoo duringthis time, like, this would not be
the right condition, circumstance,scenario, setting, to start teaching
eternal marriages, because that's goingto start stirring up the question of

(42:39):
plural marriage, and Joseph does notwant to go there, at least not publicly.

Casey Paul Griffiths (42:43):
Yeah.

Scott Woodward (42:43):
He's already being hounded.
That's also going to lead, ultimately,to his death, as we've mentioned before.
So for me that context helps me understandwhy Joseph's not publicly teaching this
but is definitely teaching this withgreat feeling to those he trusts deeply.
This is the capstone of all theordinances, the capstone doctrine

(43:04):
here with eternal marriage, andit's something today that we, you
know, proclaim from the rooftops.

Casey Paul Griffiths (43:10):
Yeah.

Scott Woodward (43:10):
It's something that we're excited about.
It's a missionary message.
Like, do you want to livewith your family forever?
Awesome.
Like, you should get baptized.
Then you're going to be on thepath to eternal family, right?
Like, today we talk about it like it'sno big deal, but I guess just what I'm
saying is that the context was fraughta little bit during this time, and
so for me that explains why Joseph isexplaining this quietly only to his

(43:32):
most trusted and faithful friends.

Casey Paul Griffiths (43:34):
Yeah.
And let's be honest, it'sstill a little fraught, right?

Scott Woodward (43:38):
Yeah.
People who are married, who's had a spousepass away and they've gotten remarried
and they're sealed to both of them,like, that troubles some people still.
You're right.
This is still a fraught issue.

Casey Paul Griffiths (43:47):
It's still a fraught issue.
Most of my classes aren't awarethat women can be sealed to
more than one partner as well.

Scott Woodward (43:53):
Right.

Casey Paul Griffiths (43:54):
The rules are a little bit different.
It's after a woman is deceased,she can be sealed to all the people
she was married to in this life.
But part of it is there's complexityin family relationships in this life.
If we're going to say the familyrelationships endure into the next
life, we have to be willing toembrace complexity there as well.
This also speaks to the factthat we believe that in the next

(44:14):
life people still have agency.
They have volition.
Relationships will be dynamic.
We won't deal with a lot of the things wedeal with down here on earth, but people
will still be deeply involved in the livesof the people they love in the next life.
That's one of the centralthings we're teaching here.

Scott Woodward (44:29):
Yeah, great point.
Okay, so as we try to wrap all this up,there's one more layer I want to add,
Casey, if that's okay, to help us tosee more clearly the importance of the

(44:53):
sealed marriage relationship, and thatis some of the theological things that
Joseph is teaching during this same time.
For instance, the King Follettdiscourse happens in April of 1844.

Casey Paul Griffiths (45:07):
Yeah.

Scott Woodward (45:08):
There's another sermon called the Sermon at the Grove
that happens just before his death.
And these are big deal sermons.
Casey, what's so importantabout the King Follett sermon?
Like, what theology is addedin the King Follett sermon that
might have some relationship totalking about eternal marriage?

Casey Paul Griffiths (45:26):
Oh, man.
I will say as much to say that theKing Follett sermon is divisive.
I think it's incredible.
Like, if it was up to me, Iwould canonize the whole thing.
I'd put it into the scriptures,but it's not up to me.
I just think it's incredible, butsome people, it does deeply offend
them because—what Joseph is doingis in Nauvoo he's creating the

(45:48):
sequence where—you can actually seethis in the Doctrine and Covenants.
If you look in section 129,Joseph Smith is saying angels and
humans are the same type of being.
And then in section 130 you flip thepage, and he says, “When the Savior will
appear, you will see that he is a manlike unto ourselves,” that Jesus is a
human that has met his highest potential.
And then the final frontier here is tosay that God and mankind are the same

(46:12):
type of being, but God is what theultimate expression of human potential

is like (46:18):
that if everything goes right, through Jesus Christ and His grace we
can ultimately become like God, and thatis still controversial today, right?
It's one of the things that peopleeither love or they hate about
what Latter-day Saints teach.

Scott Woodward (46:33):
Yeah, especially in the Protestant strain of
Christianity, that's not super popular.
But with Orthodox Christians,they're totally on board with that.
They're like, yeah, we believe that.
And Catholics maybe somewhere in between.

Casey Paul Griffiths (46:44):
Yeah.

Scott Woodward (46:45):
And it's not just that humans can become like God.
Joseph taught in the King FollettSermon that—in fact, I'll quote him

here (46:51):
“God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man and sits
enthroned in yonder heavens,” he said.
“If you were to see him today, youwould see him like a man in form, like
yourselves in all the person, image,and very form as a man.” And he says,
“It's the first principle of the gospelto know for a certainty the character
of God, and to know that he was once aman like us, yea, that God himself, the

(47:14):
father of us all, dwelt on an earth, thesame as Jesus Christ himself did.” Boy.
That opens up an entirely new avenueof theological exploration, doesn't it?

Casey Paul Griffiths (47:24):
Yeah.

Scott Woodward (47:25):
God himself, if he was once a man like us, that would explain
why Joseph would teach in Ramus thatGod the Father has a body of flesh
and bones as tangible as man's, right?

Casey Paul Griffiths (47:34):
Yeah.

Scott Woodward (47:35):
Like, how do you get a body of flesh and bones?
Well, you're born.
You're born on an earth.
That's how you get one.
You have mortal parents who getyou a body of flesh and bones.
His is exalted, though, right?
His is a resurrected body, but it's,you know, it's as tangible as man's.

Casey Paul Griffiths (47:52):
Yeah.

Scott Woodward (47:52):
That would mean that God the Father was not the first
God, that he's a man who became aGod, and that's what Joseph teaches
a few months later on June 16, 1844.
He says, “There is a God above theFather of our Lord Jesus Christ.
You may suppose that he had a father also.
Where was there ever ason without a father?
Where was there ever a fatherwithout first being a son?

(48:13):
Whenever did a tree or anything springinto existence without a progenitor?
Everything comes in this way.” And hesays, “Hence, if Jesus had a Father, can
we not believe that He had a Father also?
So we're getting intoheavenly grandparents and
great-grandparents here, Casey.

Casey Paul Griffiths (48:26):
Yeah.

Scott Woodward (48:26):
But Joseph was fearless to talk about that.
He said it's necessary that we understandthe character of God and how he came
to be a God, and I say this is allrelated to celestial marriage because
there's another doctrine that Josephalso started teaching quietly, privately
in Nauvoo to certain friends andfaithful individuals, and that's the
doctrine of a Heavenly Mother, right?

Casey Paul Griffiths (48:47):
Yeah.

Scott Woodward (48:47):
We have, for instance, Joseph's friend, W.
W.
Phelps, printing in the Times andSeasons in January 1844 edition,
“O Mormonism, thy father is God,thy mother is the Queen of Heaven.
Christ was anointed with holy oilin Heaven and crowned in the midst
of brothers and sisters while hismother stood with approving virtue

(49:08):
and smiled upon a son that kept thefaith as the heir of all things.” Woo!
That's the first time that teachingis ever printed in this church, as
far as I can find, and that's inJoseph's lifetime, January of 1844.
Phelps calls HeavenlyMother the Queen of Heaven.
We also have other individuals, likeZina Huntington, telling us that Joseph

(49:28):
taught her about a Heavenly Mother.
Do you want to tell us that story?

Casey Paul Griffiths (49:31):
Yeah, and this one might even be earlier than W.
W.
Phelps.
It's written down later, though.
Zina lost her mother, so she'sone of those people being
acquainted with death in Nauvoo.
She wrote about a conversation withJoseph Smith: “Will I know my mother
as my mother when I get over to theother side?” So, man, you can see
in that question just the nature ofChristianity that they were raised in.

(49:54):
Like, will I know my mother as my mother?
“Or will we be completely changed?
Do we transcend thesehuman relationships?”

Scott Woodward (50:00):
No question there's going to be a resurrection.
No question there's an afterlife.
Just big question on what will bethe nature of the relationships.
Yeah.

Casey Paul Griffiths (50:07):
Yeah.
Will we still be mother and daughter?

Scott Woodward (50:09):
Yeah.

Casey Paul Griffiths (50:09):
Joseph Smith's reply
“More than that, you will meet and becomeacquainted with your eternal mother,
the wife of your Father in Heaven.”“And have I then a mother in heaven?”
Joseph replied, “You assuredly have.
How could a father claim his titleunless there was a mother to share that
parenthood?” So he's just pointing out asalient truth, which is, if we're saying

(50:30):
that men can become like God, we haveto talk about women as well, and what
does a divine, exalted woman look like?
A divine feminine.
A mother in Heaven.

Scott Woodward (50:40):
So you can see how these two strands are coming together, right?
We have the potential to be likeGod, but God is a married being.
There is a woman, a heavenlymother that he's married to,
that is how we came to be.
And so the doctrine of celestialmarriage grows right out of that, right?
With this potential to become like Godwould suggest that there must be a way

(51:03):
in which men and women somehow togetherbecome what our Father and Mother are, and
eternal marriage is the answer to that.

Casey Paul Griffiths (51:11):
Mm-hmm.

Scott Woodward (51:11):
Subsequently, many church leaders have talked about
the existence of Heavenly Mother.
We don't know much about her fromscripture, but the most recent very
official teaching about her is inthe family proclamation, right?
We have that line in there that eachof us is a beloved spirit son, or
daughter of heavenly parents, andas such each has a divine nature and
destiny, and eternal marriage teachesus how to achieve that destiny.

Casey Paul Griffiths (51:36):
Yeah.

Scott Woodward (51:36):
So let's string these little pearls together.
God was once a man likeus who dwelt on an earth.
He must have somehow obeyed all thelaws of salvation and exaltation,
including celestial marriage,because he's now a married being.
He is the father of our spirits.
He has a wife.
They are having children, and they willforever, and they represent our potential.
They represent what we can become.

(51:59):
And so we see here thisconvergence, right?
The Nauvoo doctrine and theNauvoo ordinances dovetail
together perfectly, right?
Baptized.
Why?
To get into the kingdom of God.
Washed and anointed.
Why?
To become a king and a queen and apriest and a priestess in that kingdom.
Endowment.
Why?
To teach us the laws we muststrive to obey in order to be

(52:21):
able to achieve that potential.
Eternal marriage.
Why?
Well, it's the capstone ordinancewhereby men and women are able to
achieve their ultimate destiny.
There is a canonized revelationfrom the Nauvoo time period.
This is section 132, and in that thedoctrine of celestial marriage is
outlined super clear, and if we goto verse 19 you find after a husband

(52:45):
and a wife are married in the newand everlasting covenant and sealed
by the Holy Spirit of Promise, hethen talks about the blessings.
And notice these blessings and thinkabout them as they connect back to Genesis
1 with this idea that we're created tohave dominion, and then connect it over
at the other end of the Bible, whereexalted men and women are sitting on
thrones ruling and reigning with God.

(53:07):
Think about the language here.
It says after they come forth in the firstresurrection they shall, “inherit thrones,
kingdoms, principalities, and powers,dominions.” There's that Genesis 1 word.
“All heights and depths,” et cetera,and if they go on and remain faithful,
“they shall pass by the angels, andthe gods, which are set there, to their

(53:30):
exaltation and glory in all things,as hath been sealed upon their heads,
which glory shall be a fulness andcontinuation of the seeds forever and
ever.” In other words, eternal children.
Eternal posterity.
And verse 20 says, “Then shall they begods, because they have no end.” So, whoa.
The Nauvoo ordinances rely heavily,Casey, on the Nauvoo doctrine,

(53:54):
the Nauvoo theology, right?

Casey Paul Griffiths (53:56):
Yeah.

Scott Woodward (53:56):
That these are all coming together, converging together,
splashing together in Nauvoo, and totry to understand one of them, you've
got to understand all of them andhow they all piece together to bring
about the eternal destiny of mankind.

Casey Paul Griffiths (54:09):
Yeah, and there's maybe one quote from the King Follett
sermon that I think connects all this.

Scott Woodward (54:14):
Yeah, please.

Casey Paul Griffiths (54:15):
Joseph Smith says, “Here, then, is eternal life, to know
the only wise and true God, and you havegot to learn how to be gods yourselves,
and to be kings and priests to God, thesame as all gods have done before you,
namely by going from one small degree toanother and from a small capacity to a
great one, and from grace to grace.” Now,that beautifully captures this idea found

(54:37):
in the Doctrine and Covenants, and that'sone thing I want to emphasize is that
Nauvoo is him putting everything together.
You can see all these puzzle piecesthroughout the Doctrine and Covenants.
A big chunk of it is section 93, whichtalks about how Jesus went from grace to
grace, but it's in Nauvoo where JosephSmith is able to kind of receive the
revelation to bring everything together,and the connecting place is the temple.

(55:00):
All this stuff happens in the temple,and what we've been talking about
today is essentially the purpose of thetemple, which is to assist everyone in
their path to becoming like the Father.

Scott Woodward (55:10):
No wonder Joseph's successors would want to take
the temple to every nation,kindred, tongue, and people.
To try to put temples everywhere sothat all have the opportunity to become
what they have the potential to become.
It's beautiful, man.

Casey Paul Griffiths (55:26):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Absolutely.

Scott Woodward (55:28):
I always ask my students when we talk about this in class, what
if we drenched our views on dating andmarriage in these Nauvoo doctrines?
Like, how would thatchange the game, right?
What if we view each otherand our potential through
the lens of those doctrines?
What difference wouldthat make in our lives?
What difference would that makein the way we treat one another?

Casey Paul Griffiths (55:48):
Yeah.

Scott Woodward (55:49):
Joseph said of the Nauvoo doctrine, he said, “This is good doctrine.
It tastes good.
I can taste the principles of eternallife, and so can you.” These doctrines
are delicious, and it's been a pleasureto talk about them today, Casey.

Casey Paul Griffiths: Nice way to phrase it. (56:01):
undefined
That is a lot to digest for now.
I'm full, if this is delicious, soplan on next week picking up a couple
threads that we've laid down here.

Scott Woodward (56:15):
Thank you for listening to this episode of Church History Matters.
Next week Casey and I discuss threeintriguing early temple-related rituals,
which were later discontinued or have goneinto obscurity: namely, adoptive sealings
to apostles, prayer circles done outsideof the temple, and the second anointing.
If you're enjoying Church HistoryMatters, we'd appreciate it if you

(56:36):
could take a moment to subscribe, rate,review, and comment on the podcast.
That makes us easier to find.
Also, we'd love to hear your suggestionsfor future series on this podcast.
If there's a church history topic youthink would be worth exploring for
multiple episodes, send us your ideato podcasts@scripturecentral.org.
We'll consider all suggestions.

(56:56):
Today's episode was produced byScott Woodward and edited by Nick
Galieti and Scott Woodward, with shownotes and transcript by Gabe Davis.
Church History Matters is a podcastof Scripture Central, a nonprofit
which exists to help build enduringfaith in Jesus Christ by making
Latter-day Saint scripture and churchhistory accessible, comprehensible,
and defensible to people everywhere.

(57:17):
For more resources to enhance yourgospel study, go to scripturecentral.org,
where everything is availablefor free because of the generous
donations of people like you.
And while we try very hard to behistorically and doctrinally accurate
in what we say on this podcast, pleaseremember that all views expressed in
this and every episode are our viewsalone and do not necessarily reflect the
views of Scripture Central or The Churchof Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

(57:40):
Thank you so much for beinga part of this with us.
Advertise With Us

Popular Podcasts

1. Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang

1. Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang

Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.

2. The Joe Rogan Experience

2. The Joe Rogan Experience

The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.

3. Dateline NBC

3. Dateline NBC

Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations.

Music, radio and podcasts, all free. Listen online or download the iHeart App.

Connect

© 2024 iHeartMedia, Inc.