March 4, 2025 • 17 mins
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EPISODE DESCRIPTION
In this episode, Brandon shares strategies and tactics to improve your conflict resolution skills that not only protect your business, but also impact your life.
Brandon discusses: → Accepting that conflicts are inevitable, and looking for the angles to a problem, not angels to magically solve it, and maintaining professionalism. → The "bitch & resolve" methodology for handling challenges, spotlighting problems in the right way, and maintaining professionalism. → Why you should always give bad news over the phone, handling hostile communication, and the process of learning, documenting, and then sharing.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello, everyone.
(00:00):
Welcome to this week's episode of
Commission Breath.
Brandon Love here.
I'm flying solo today.
You've probably noticed this, but
Tom and I have been doing a littlebit more of a divide and conquer,
just trying to accomplish all thestuff that comes with running a
busy book of business, a brokeragepodcast.
We love doing our episodestogether, but splitting things up
a little bit allows us to tacklethings that we're passionate about
(00:23):
or things that are present for usthat day without having to pull
both of us into the fray.
So let us know if you like these
solo ones, if you prefer us tojust be tag teaming things.
But I just thought I'd give you alittle update on why that is and
sort of what's going on in thebackground right now.
So as an independent book ofbusiness, we are growing our team.
So we just hired a good friend ofours.
(00:45):
He's starting next week.
And the cool thing is he is
actually the guy that got Tom andI both into doing mortgages.
So it's kind of come full circlenow where years later, he is
joining our team.
He's going to be like the head of
underwriting.
That's a working title.
And he's going to bring all thatexpertise and everything into
running our book.
So fantastic.
We're super stoked about that.
And then on the brokerage side, we
(01:07):
have had 45 agents join us sinceAugust.
We're cooking there.
We're having a great time.
We are loving.
running a brokerage.
I was a little nervous at first.
I thought it was going to pull me
too far away from my actualbusiness, which to a certain
extent it has.
I'm honestly funding less
mortgages now because I'm doing somuch brokerage work.
But I actually do love the side ofthe brokerage thing, and I'm
(01:29):
really passionate about helpingbrokers drive down their costs,
grow their book of business, andwe're just having a lot of fun.
And I think the brokers are havingfun too, but you can ask them
because they probably won't tellme to my face.
Anyways, that is besides thepoint.
That's not what I want to talk toyou about today.
Today, I want to talk aboutconflict resolution and how we can
really improve this in ourbusinesses.
So I'm going to give severaldifferent ways and strategies that
you can use to apply to yourbusiness that have really helped
(01:51):
me both.
my own personal book, in life in
general, and in running abrokerage as well.
So first things first, just youhave to accept that this is part
of the job.
If you ask for a conflict -free
life or a conflict -free business,you can have no business.
But if you're going to be the kindof person who's drawing leads in,
growing their book of business,scaling, things are going to
(02:13):
break, clients are going to getfrustrated, things are going to
blow up in your face and createthese stressful scenarios.
It comes with the territory.
There is no way around it.
The thing to accept here is thatthis is just part of it.
These stressors that come with thejob were paid handsomely to deal
with it.
So don't pray that these go away.
Just pray that you can becomebetter equipped at handling them.
(02:34):
So I'm on a little bit of areligious bent for these first
two, but just ignore that ifyou're not spiritual at all.
But the second one, this is aconcept that comes from Ryan
Holiday, very well known.
author who writes a lot about
stoicism.
And his concept is stop looking
for angels and start looking forangles.
And I often hear of brokers tryingto force files to work with
certain lenders.
So it's like that square peg in
(02:54):
the round hole.
And they're trying to get several
exceptions.
They're trying to massage the file
so that it works.
They're getting frustrated.
The lender's getting frustrated.
The client's getting irritated.
And it's just this cycle ofnegativity.
I often think about this and I'mlike, you guys, we have the luxury
of being brokers.
We are not TD reps or RBC reps who
(03:15):
only have our products.
We have so many other options and
solutions out there.
So take a step back and look at
some of the policies, read throughLender Spotlight, get that broader
picture and see if you can find abetter fit for the client.
It's going to end up being asmoother transaction for you.
The lender is going to be happier.
(03:38):
This luxury is that all these
lenders are not carbon copies ofone another.
We just had a lender on our lenderchat with the brokerage yesterday
talking about their six -monthprogram for recently self
-employed people.
This is a huge advantage.
I can think of several files whereI tried to make this work
elsewhere and never got it done.
Just knowing these kinds of
things, learning and applying itto your business is going to make
(03:58):
things so much better.
Look for an angle that you can
apply.
of your business, stop looking for
some of your lenders or yourbrokerage or people in the channel
to be your saviors on files.
All right, this is a big one.
I hate complaining in life.
It just draws all that negativity
towards you.
It doesn't get anywhere.
And I get it.
Sometimes people need to complain
to feel better or just to get itoff their chest.
(04:20):
Go to a therapist, okay?Do not complain to your partners.
Do not complain.
to people in your brokerage don't
just generally complain but onething i do like to do is have what
i call a bitch and resolve so abitch and resolve is that if you
have an issue that's bothering youyou can bring it to the table but
you have to have at least oneresolution towards it.
Okay.
(04:41):
It doesn't have to be a good
resolution.
Like if I could say Tom's being a
dick.
Okay.
My resolution is to kill Tom.
That's not a good resolution, but
coming up with one idea at leastputs us in that solution based
thinking mindset.
So an example might be someone's
having an issue with a clienttreating them rudely and their
resolution might be, I'm going tojust completely cut the client off
and move on to the next one.
(05:02):
But they can bring this to the
table and get feedback from thebrokerage, from the leadership
team, from everyone who might beon that call.
And someone else might say, hey,you know what?
I would suggest doing X or I mightsuggest doing Y. So you have this
session where you get the weightoff your chest by sharing it with
the group.
but you also get several
actionable resolutions there thatthen you can pick what's the best
(05:24):
one to go forward.
This creates a way better
environment because everyone isresolution -based thinking instead
of just complaining.
If I come in and I'm like, Fuck
underwriting.
And then everyone's like, yeah, I
hate underwriting.
I hate rates.
I hate this.
And it just spirals.
Everyone gets in this negativeframe and it's very hard to pull
yourself out of it.
Protecting your mindset and the
mindset of your business is goingto lead to such a better daily
(05:45):
life for you.
And also it's just going to make
things more positive surroundingyour business.
So I think it's a huge thing tomove away from complaining.
Don't worry if you have to saysomething, but have at least one
solution in mind.
that you can bring to the table
and then allow others to piggybackoff there okay I just want to give
a story of this.
(06:06):
This actually came into play today
in our brokerage.
So every day we have prospectors
hour.
We did the first half hour
prospecting.
Second half hour, we have
training, a lender, or sometimeswe'll just do like a Q &A.
So today we did a Q &A and one ofthe agents came in and he's like,
I'm having like a hell of a timewith this net worth file.
I've asked for like severalexceptions.
I've been declined here and here.
(06:27):
I've been frustrated and I'm just
looking for like solutions.
Here's what I've tried.
Does anyone have any suggestions?So he kind of voiced.
frustration he was having with hisfile.
He explained what he's been tryingand the angle he's been looking at
it.
And two other brokers suggested
two to three different lenders hecould try and how he could
structure the file.
And now he was able to wrap up
that call.
With a resolution in mind, he kind
of cleared his headspace, pulledhimself out of the file, let
(06:49):
another couple sets of eyes intohis scenario, and he has a new
direction he can take.
Whether or not that ends up being
successful is besides the point.
It gives renewed hope and optimism
into the file and removes thatlayer of frustration for him.
All right.
If you're going to complain.
You need to learn how to do it.
So I know I said don't complain
before.
Have resolution -based solutions
(07:10):
there.
But there are certain times where
you just need to flag things.
And this isn't really complaining.
This is just more so drawingattention or shining a spotlight
on the problem.
And that's a key distinction
there, okay?Don't be like, so -and -so sucks
at underwriting.
My underwriter's not getting this.
This isn't working.
Just shine a spotlight.
Be like, hey, I'm having troublegetting.
the right documents or gettingclarity on what you're looking
(07:32):
for?Can I get another set of eyeballs
on this so that we can get aresolution faster for the client?
So just kind of reframe it.
Try not to throw people under the
bus.
Bad practice, and I see this a lot
on being on the brokerage sidenow, is an agent getting
frustrated with something andcopying in every single handle
they have from that lender.
So it'll be like the underwriter,
(07:53):
the BDM, someone else who's workedon the pass file, all the
management.
Literally, it's just like this
barrage.
of cc's on the email i'm like whoa
that is like overkill you're gonnapiss so many people off you're
gonna make the person who you havethe initial conflict with really
frustrated with you and thenthere's a lot of people who are
gonna feel like you're justannoying so don't do that that's a
really bad practice good practiceis if you have an issue with an
(08:18):
underwriter talk to them first andjust try to get clarity on what it
is if you're not getting anywherethere then go to your bdm from the
bdm conversation loop inmanagement and we can help stick
handle those kinds of things alittle bit with you but don't go
through and be like underwriter Ididn't get the answer I want.
I'm going to go to my brokerage.
(08:39):
I'm going to then copy in the BDM
and they're superior.
Like it just creates a big mess
for you.
People end up doing more damage
control and trying to protecttheir hides than they do trying to
work on the resolution for you.
Early on in my career, I totally
did this.
Like I fucked it up huge.
I got frustrated and I justfucking.
CC everyone and I blasted theunderwriter and you know the
(08:59):
resolution was eventually made buton my next file I was just getting
like really crappy service againand finally I'm like okay I don't
know like I'm gonna just call thisunderwriter so I called them and I
was like hey like do we have aproblem like are we gonna be able
to work together they were verygracious of me I think they
recognized that I was new and theyjust said like you know what what
(09:21):
you did there got me and shit itmade me look bad with my team and
I'm triaging, I'm working on a lotof files.
I'm prioritizing people whorespect me and who treat me well.
And, you know, like I felt thatyou didn't do that on the last
file.
And yes, this is kind of hurting
our relationship.
He's like, I don't want to have
this ongoing, but like, that'swhat's going on right now in my
(09:42):
head.
And I was like, thanks.
Like, I really appreciate yousharing that with me.
I recognize that I screwed thatup.
I didn't know better.
And I ended up sending them a $50
LCBO gift card.
And a little note saying, sorry
for creating a stressful day.
Hopefully this can take some of
the steam off sort of thing.
And we ended up having a really
great relationship.
We just opened up with being very
clear with each other about howthings were going and where
(10:04):
frustrations were and where I hadhurt them.
And similarly, where I felt that Iwas getting treated like a rookie
broker, which I was and I shouldhave been.
But, you know, I guess I had someego at that time.
So it ended up creating one of mybest underwriting relationships.
really taught me about how to dealwith people in the industry.
And it's really important toremember that this is a long -term
game played with long -termpeople.
(10:25):
So someone who's an underwritertoday will be your BDM down the
road.
That BDM will be a VP somewhere,
so on and so forth.
And it's very small.
playground and you don't want tobe the one having the reputation
for being an asshole, especiallywhen there's really great people
and we're all just trying to worktowards the common good of getting
files funded, creating solutionsfor clients, improving the growth
of the mortgage brokering industryas a whole.
(10:45):
So many people are bought intothis and really doing their best.
So do your best to give respectwhere It should be given and not
try to throw people under the bus.
Okay.
If you have to give bad news, itshould always be over a phone.
So like you just saw with thatunderwriter there, with that
conversation, that was done over aphone call.
If you have to tell a client thattheir file has been canceled for
(11:08):
some reason, or you have tocommunicate with the realtor that
something's not meeting a COF, donot hide behind a keyboard.
Do this as a phone call.
You will get a barrage of angry
things, like angry comments.
It sucks just sitting there
listening to it.
I remember when rates went up
really high there and anyone thatI had put in like a variable rate,
(11:29):
I just called them and said, hey,like rates have gone up.
You know, we made this call withyou.
Our plan is for the five years.
It's not for the one year where I
had this whole script worked out.
It was pretty good.
But I still had to sit there andlisten to them.
I'd be like, you fucked up myfamily's finances.
And they're just blaming me.
Like I had controlled everything.
And whether or not that's right isbesides the point.
(11:50):
But having that conversationreally diffused things.
So they got all their anger out ofthe way.
And then we could work on theresolution.
And if you hide behind a keyboardhere, people will fucking light
you up.
And they will continue to send you
email after email angry messages.
They just have no respect for you.
So get ahead of it.
Pick up the phone.
Make the call.
(12:11):
It's going to suck.
But it's going to be like three tosix minutes.
And then you're done.
Going forward from that, though,
you need to set boundaries andmake them really clear.
So if you have that initial call,you tell them the bad news and
they're still harassing you orthey're taking it too far.
And you can tell what this is.
There's a very clear distinction
here between like, yes, I'm pissedoff on one call versus I'm like.
pissed off calling you all thetime or like sending you
(12:33):
threatening messages that kind ofthing if that's the case then you
do have to move away from thephone and you have to start using
your email so that you have thatpaper trail and documented history
of where things have gone theother reason i like this is email
only communication allows me topull back a bit so if someone
sends me something really pissy orwhatever and i've done the call
(12:55):
for the bad news has happened butlet's just say it's a client who
like there wasn't anything badthat happened they're just one of
those people that likes to createdrama or likes to create that
hostile environment switch toemail email only communication i
can take a step back i can say youknow i'm going to draft my
response going to go for a walkAnd then maybe I'll send it or
maybe I'll send it the next day.
It gives you that bit of distance
(13:16):
between the problem itself andallows for the clarity of thought
there.
Another thing I like to do here
and be careful not to overstep indoing this is share with the
referral partners what's going onand giving some context with
email.
So if someone's sending me like a
really.
like irate message and it's
unfounded i will just send to therealtor partner hey here's just a
(13:36):
little snippet of what's going oni just want you to have context if
you're fielding any hostility onyour end and i don't go into the
granular like violating anyprivacy or anything like that you
need to be very cautious there soyou want to think like okay give
the broad strokes of the issue butnot the finer details but just
looping them in the as more of acourtesy so that if they get the
(13:58):
angry call next they know whereit's coming from and they're not
caught off guard by it.
The keyboard is here as insurance,
so use it for that paper trail,but don't hide behind it.
Make your initial thing a call,and then use the keyboard to back
you up and have that paper trailbehind you.
All right, last but not least isjust a good policy for everything
in your business, whether it'sconflict resolution, underwriting,
sales, is learn, document, andshare.
(14:19):
So when you learn something, writeit down.
I used to... create this sheet.
It was called underground
underwriting.
And it had any like underwriting
tip I had probably like 40 pageslong by the end of it, I would
just reference it.
So if I had to follow it around, I
could just go in there and it wasgreat to kind of look up
historical things, write thingsdown of how you handle the
(14:40):
scenario.
How did it work?
How did it go poorly?I love to do this.
If like I have a client complainthat, you know, they saw a better
rate somewhere else.
I document what was my answer to
them and how did I justify what wehad done there?
If you have something that'sworking, don't hold on to it.
This is an industry that benefitsa lot from collaboration, and a
better brokering community isbetter for brokering.
You're not pulling business fromone another.
Very rarely, anyways, do I getsomeone who comes to me and says,
(15:03):
I'm working with another broker.
95 % of the time, it's like, hey,
I'm working with my bank, and Iwant a second opinion.
Share with the brokeringcommunity, especially with your
internal brokerage.
That's like an incubator for
ideas, just like this podcast is.
And so much can grow and expand
from that.
And that rising tide lifts all
(15:24):
ships.
And never in my life have I been
proven wrong about this, that likegiving things away and
information, it always comes backtenfold where people will share
stuff with us that then we applyin our business.
It helps us create a better clientexperience or it helps us like
deal with difficult clients.
Giving back and keeping just kind
of that like currency ofgenerosity and strategies and
ideas and all that stuff has agreat compounding effect.
And it creates a better businessfor you, creates a better
environment to actually work in.
(15:44):
And, you know, it's just better.
Quick recap.
Just radical acceptance.
Accept this as part of the job.
You're paid well for it.
If you don't want to deal withcomplaints, go do a different job.
Look for angles, not for angels.
Try to find a different way to
look at the problem via maybe adifferent lender or a different
approach to a file.
Have a bitch and resolve.
So if you're going to complain,come with some form of resolution
(16:06):
and have that resolution -basedmentality.
Learn how to spotlight wherethings are going wrong without
making them seem like bigcomplaints.
shining a light on things i'm notcomplaining about it i'm just
drawing attention to it that kindof thing bad news comes over the
phone abusive or hostile scenarioshave to be dealt with by email so
that you have the paper trail andlast but not least learn document
(16:26):
and share let's keep building agreat brokering community and
let's have a successful time withhopefully not too many conflicts
but at least you should know howto deal with them a bit better
have an awesome day cheers
Hello, everyone.
(00:00):
Welcome to this week's episode of
Commission Breath.
Brandon Love here.
I'm flying solo today.
You've probably noticed this, but
Tom and I have been doing a littlebit more of a divide and conquer,
just trying to accomplish all thestuff that comes with running a
busy book of business, a brokeragepodcast.
We love doing our episodestogether, but splitting things up
a little bit allows us to tacklethings that we're passionate about
(00:23):
or things that are present for usthat day without having to pull
both of us into the fray.
So let us know if you like these
solo ones, if you prefer us tojust be tag teaming things.
But I just thought I'd give you alittle update on why that is and
sort of what's going on in thebackground right now.
So as an independent book ofbusiness, we are growing our team.
So we just hired a good friend ofours.
(00:45):
He's starting next week.
And the cool thing is he is
actually the guy that got Tom andI both into doing mortgages.
So it's kind of come full circlenow where years later, he is
joining our team.
He's going to be like the head of
underwriting.
That's a working title.
And he's going to bring all thatexpertise and everything into
running our book.
So fantastic.
We're super stoked about that.
And then on the brokerage side, we
(01:07):
have had 45 agents join us sinceAugust.
We're cooking there.
We're having a great time.
We are loving.
running a brokerage.
I was a little nervous at first.
I thought it was going to pull me
too far away from my actualbusiness, which to a certain
extent it has.
I'm honestly funding less
mortgages now because I'm doing somuch brokerage work.
But I actually do love the side ofthe brokerage thing, and I'm
(01:29):
really passionate about helpingbrokers drive down their costs,
grow their book of business, andwe're just having a lot of fun.
And I think the brokers are havingfun too, but you can ask them
because they probably won't tellme to my face.
Anyways, that is besides thepoint.
That's not what I want to talk toyou about today.
Today, I want to talk aboutconflict resolution and how we can
really improve this in ourbusinesses.
So I'm going to give severaldifferent ways and strategies that
you can use to apply to yourbusiness that have really helped
(01:51):
me both.
my own personal book, in life in
general, and in running abrokerage as well.
So first things first, just youhave to accept that this is part
of the job.
If you ask for a conflict -free
life or a conflict -free business,you can have no business.
But if you're going to be the kindof person who's drawing leads in,
growing their book of business,scaling, things are going to
(02:13):
break, clients are going to getfrustrated, things are going to
blow up in your face and createthese stressful scenarios.
It comes with the territory.
There is no way around it.
The thing to accept here is thatthis is just part of it.
These stressors that come with thejob were paid handsomely to deal
with it.
So don't pray that these go away.
Just pray that you can becomebetter equipped at handling them.
(02:34):
So I'm on a little bit of areligious bent for these first
two, but just ignore that ifyou're not spiritual at all.
But the second one, this is aconcept that comes from Ryan
Holiday, very well known.
author who writes a lot about
stoicism.
And his concept is stop looking
for angels and start looking forangles.
And I often hear of brokers tryingto force files to work with
certain lenders.
So it's like that square peg in
(02:54):
the round hole.
And they're trying to get several
exceptions.
They're trying to massage the file
so that it works.
They're getting frustrated.
The lender's getting frustrated.
The client's getting irritated.
And it's just this cycle ofnegativity.
I often think about this and I'mlike, you guys, we have the luxury
of being brokers.
We are not TD reps or RBC reps who
(03:15):
only have our products.
We have so many other options and
solutions out there.
So take a step back and look at
some of the policies, read throughLender Spotlight, get that broader
picture and see if you can find abetter fit for the client.
It's going to end up being asmoother transaction for you.
The lender is going to be happier.
(03:38):
This luxury is that all these
lenders are not carbon copies ofone another.
We just had a lender on our lenderchat with the brokerage yesterday
talking about their six -monthprogram for recently self
-employed people.
This is a huge advantage.
I can think of several files whereI tried to make this work
elsewhere and never got it done.
Just knowing these kinds of
things, learning and applying itto your business is going to make
(03:58):
things so much better.
Look for an angle that you can
apply.
of your business, stop looking for
some of your lenders or yourbrokerage or people in the channel
to be your saviors on files.
All right, this is a big one.
I hate complaining in life.
It just draws all that negativity
towards you.
It doesn't get anywhere.
And I get it.
Sometimes people need to complain
to feel better or just to get itoff their chest.
(04:20):
Go to a therapist, okay?Do not complain to your partners.
Do not complain.
to people in your brokerage don't
just generally complain but onething i do like to do is have what
i call a bitch and resolve so abitch and resolve is that if you
have an issue that's bothering youyou can bring it to the table but
you have to have at least oneresolution towards it.
Okay.
(04:41):
It doesn't have to be a good
resolution.
Like if I could say Tom's being a
dick.
Okay.
My resolution is to kill Tom.
That's not a good resolution, but
coming up with one idea at leastputs us in that solution based
thinking mindset.
So an example might be someone's
having an issue with a clienttreating them rudely and their
resolution might be, I'm going tojust completely cut the client off
and move on to the next one.
(05:02):
But they can bring this to the
table and get feedback from thebrokerage, from the leadership
team, from everyone who might beon that call.
And someone else might say, hey,you know what?
I would suggest doing X or I mightsuggest doing Y. So you have this
session where you get the weightoff your chest by sharing it with
the group.
but you also get several
actionable resolutions there thatthen you can pick what's the best
(05:24):
one to go forward.
This creates a way better
environment because everyone isresolution -based thinking instead
of just complaining.
If I come in and I'm like, Fuck
underwriting.
And then everyone's like, yeah, I
hate underwriting.
I hate rates.
I hate this.
And it just spirals.
Everyone gets in this negativeframe and it's very hard to pull
yourself out of it.
Protecting your mindset and the
mindset of your business is goingto lead to such a better daily
(05:45):
life for you.
And also it's just going to make
things more positive surroundingyour business.
So I think it's a huge thing tomove away from complaining.
Don't worry if you have to saysomething, but have at least one
solution in mind.
that you can bring to the table
and then allow others to piggybackoff there okay I just want to give
a story of this.
(06:06):
This actually came into play today
in our brokerage.
So every day we have prospectors
hour.
We did the first half hour
prospecting.
Second half hour, we have
training, a lender, or sometimeswe'll just do like a Q &A.
So today we did a Q &A and one ofthe agents came in and he's like,
I'm having like a hell of a timewith this net worth file.
I've asked for like severalexceptions.
I've been declined here and here.
(06:27):
I've been frustrated and I'm just
looking for like solutions.
Here's what I've tried.
Does anyone have any suggestions?So he kind of voiced.
frustration he was having with hisfile.
He explained what he's been tryingand the angle he's been looking at
it.
And two other brokers suggested
two to three different lenders hecould try and how he could
structure the file.
And now he was able to wrap up
that call.
With a resolution in mind, he kind
of cleared his headspace, pulledhimself out of the file, let
(06:49):
another couple sets of eyes intohis scenario, and he has a new
direction he can take.
Whether or not that ends up being
successful is besides the point.
It gives renewed hope and optimism
into the file and removes thatlayer of frustration for him.
All right.
If you're going to complain.
You need to learn how to do it.
So I know I said don't complain
before.
Have resolution -based solutions
(07:10):
there.
But there are certain times where
you just need to flag things.
And this isn't really complaining.
This is just more so drawingattention or shining a spotlight
on the problem.
And that's a key distinction
there, okay?Don't be like, so -and -so sucks
at underwriting.
My underwriter's not getting this.
This isn't working.
Just shine a spotlight.
Be like, hey, I'm having troublegetting.
the right documents or gettingclarity on what you're looking
(07:32):
for?Can I get another set of eyeballs
on this so that we can get aresolution faster for the client?
So just kind of reframe it.
Try not to throw people under the
bus.
Bad practice, and I see this a lot
on being on the brokerage sidenow, is an agent getting
frustrated with something andcopying in every single handle
they have from that lender.
So it'll be like the underwriter,
(07:53):
the BDM, someone else who's workedon the pass file, all the
management.
Literally, it's just like this
barrage.
of cc's on the email i'm like whoa
that is like overkill you're gonnapiss so many people off you're
gonna make the person who you havethe initial conflict with really
frustrated with you and thenthere's a lot of people who are
gonna feel like you're justannoying so don't do that that's a
really bad practice good practiceis if you have an issue with an
(08:18):
underwriter talk to them first andjust try to get clarity on what it
is if you're not getting anywherethere then go to your bdm from the
bdm conversation loop inmanagement and we can help stick
handle those kinds of things alittle bit with you but don't go
through and be like underwriter Ididn't get the answer I want.
I'm going to go to my brokerage.
(08:39):
I'm going to then copy in the BDM
and they're superior.
Like it just creates a big mess
for you.
People end up doing more damage
control and trying to protecttheir hides than they do trying to
work on the resolution for you.
Early on in my career, I totally
did this.
Like I fucked it up huge.
I got frustrated and I justfucking.
CC everyone and I blasted theunderwriter and you know the
(08:59):
resolution was eventually made buton my next file I was just getting
like really crappy service againand finally I'm like okay I don't
know like I'm gonna just call thisunderwriter so I called them and I
was like hey like do we have aproblem like are we gonna be able
to work together they were verygracious of me I think they
recognized that I was new and theyjust said like you know what what
(09:21):
you did there got me and shit itmade me look bad with my team and
I'm triaging, I'm working on a lotof files.
I'm prioritizing people whorespect me and who treat me well.
And, you know, like I felt thatyou didn't do that on the last
file.
And yes, this is kind of hurting
our relationship.
He's like, I don't want to have
this ongoing, but like, that'swhat's going on right now in my
(09:42):
head.
And I was like, thanks.
Like, I really appreciate yousharing that with me.
I recognize that I screwed thatup.
I didn't know better.
And I ended up sending them a $50
LCBO gift card.
And a little note saying, sorry
for creating a stressful day.
Hopefully this can take some of
the steam off sort of thing.
And we ended up having a really
great relationship.
We just opened up with being very
clear with each other about howthings were going and where
(10:04):
frustrations were and where I hadhurt them.
And similarly, where I felt that Iwas getting treated like a rookie
broker, which I was and I shouldhave been.
But, you know, I guess I had someego at that time.
So it ended up creating one of mybest underwriting relationships.
really taught me about how to dealwith people in the industry.
And it's really important toremember that this is a long -term
game played with long -termpeople.
(10:25):
So someone who's an underwritertoday will be your BDM down the
road.
That BDM will be a VP somewhere,
so on and so forth.
And it's very small.
playground and you don't want tobe the one having the reputation
for being an asshole, especiallywhen there's really great people
and we're all just trying to worktowards the common good of getting
files funded, creating solutionsfor clients, improving the growth
of the mortgage brokering industryas a whole.
(10:45):
So many people are bought intothis and really doing their best.
So do your best to give respectwhere It should be given and not
try to throw people under the bus.
Okay.
If you have to give bad news, itshould always be over a phone.
So like you just saw with thatunderwriter there, with that
conversation, that was done over aphone call.
If you have to tell a client thattheir file has been canceled for
(11:08):
some reason, or you have tocommunicate with the realtor that
something's not meeting a COF, donot hide behind a keyboard.
Do this as a phone call.
You will get a barrage of angry
things, like angry comments.
It sucks just sitting there
listening to it.
I remember when rates went up
really high there and anyone thatI had put in like a variable rate,
(11:29):
I just called them and said, hey,like rates have gone up.
You know, we made this call withyou.
Our plan is for the five years.
It's not for the one year where I
had this whole script worked out.
It was pretty good.
But I still had to sit there andlisten to them.
I'd be like, you fucked up myfamily's finances.
And they're just blaming me.
Like I had controlled everything.
And whether or not that's right isbesides the point.
(11:50):
But having that conversationreally diffused things.
So they got all their anger out ofthe way.
And then we could work on theresolution.
And if you hide behind a keyboardhere, people will fucking light
you up.
And they will continue to send you
email after email angry messages.
They just have no respect for you.
So get ahead of it.
Pick up the phone.
Make the call.
(12:11):
It's going to suck.
But it's going to be like three tosix minutes.
And then you're done.
Going forward from that, though,
you need to set boundaries andmake them really clear.
So if you have that initial call,you tell them the bad news and
they're still harassing you orthey're taking it too far.
And you can tell what this is.
There's a very clear distinction
here between like, yes, I'm pissedoff on one call versus I'm like.
pissed off calling you all thetime or like sending you
(12:33):
threatening messages that kind ofthing if that's the case then you
do have to move away from thephone and you have to start using
your email so that you have thatpaper trail and documented history
of where things have gone theother reason i like this is email
only communication allows me topull back a bit so if someone
sends me something really pissy orwhatever and i've done the call
(12:55):
for the bad news has happened butlet's just say it's a client who
like there wasn't anything badthat happened they're just one of
those people that likes to createdrama or likes to create that
hostile environment switch toemail email only communication i
can take a step back i can say youknow i'm going to draft my
response going to go for a walkAnd then maybe I'll send it or
maybe I'll send it the next day.
It gives you that bit of distance
(13:16):
between the problem itself andallows for the clarity of thought
there.
Another thing I like to do here
and be careful not to overstep indoing this is share with the
referral partners what's going onand giving some context with
email.
So if someone's sending me like a
really.
like irate message and it's
unfounded i will just send to therealtor partner hey here's just a
(13:36):
little snippet of what's going oni just want you to have context if
you're fielding any hostility onyour end and i don't go into the
granular like violating anyprivacy or anything like that you
need to be very cautious there soyou want to think like okay give
the broad strokes of the issue butnot the finer details but just
looping them in the as more of acourtesy so that if they get the
(13:58):
angry call next they know whereit's coming from and they're not
caught off guard by it.
The keyboard is here as insurance,
so use it for that paper trail,but don't hide behind it.
Make your initial thing a call,and then use the keyboard to back
you up and have that paper trailbehind you.
All right, last but not least isjust a good policy for everything
in your business, whether it'sconflict resolution, underwriting,
sales, is learn, document, andshare.
(14:19):
So when you learn something, writeit down.
I used to... create this sheet.
It was called underground
underwriting.
And it had any like underwriting
tip I had probably like 40 pageslong by the end of it, I would
just reference it.
So if I had to follow it around, I
could just go in there and it wasgreat to kind of look up
historical things, write thingsdown of how you handle the
(14:40):
scenario.
How did it work?
How did it go poorly?I love to do this.
If like I have a client complainthat, you know, they saw a better
rate somewhere else.
I document what was my answer to
them and how did I justify what wehad done there?
If you have something that'sworking, don't hold on to it.
This is an industry that benefitsa lot from collaboration, and a
better brokering community isbetter for brokering.
You're not pulling business fromone another.
Very rarely, anyways, do I getsomeone who comes to me and says,
(15:03):
I'm working with another broker.
95 % of the time, it's like, hey,
I'm working with my bank, and Iwant a second opinion.
Share with the brokeringcommunity, especially with your
internal brokerage.
That's like an incubator for
ideas, just like this podcast is.
And so much can grow and expand
from that.
And that rising tide lifts all
(15:24):
ships.
And never in my life have I been
proven wrong about this, that likegiving things away and
information, it always comes backtenfold where people will share
stuff with us that then we applyin our business.
It helps us create a better clientexperience or it helps us like
deal with difficult clients.
Giving back and keeping just kind
of that like currency ofgenerosity and strategies and
ideas and all that stuff has agreat compounding effect.
And it creates a better businessfor you, creates a better
environment to actually work in.
(15:44):
And, you know, it's just better.
Quick recap.
Just radical acceptance.
Accept this as part of the job.
You're paid well for it.
If you don't want to deal withcomplaints, go do a different job.
Look for angles, not for angels.
Try to find a different way to
look at the problem via maybe adifferent lender or a different
approach to a file.
Have a bitch and resolve.
So if you're going to complain,come with some form of resolution
(16:06):
and have that resolution -basedmentality.
Learn how to spotlight wherethings are going wrong without
making them seem like bigcomplaints.
shining a light on things i'm notcomplaining about it i'm just
drawing attention to it that kindof thing bad news comes over the
phone abusive or hostile scenarioshave to be dealt with by email so
that you have the paper trail andlast but not least learn document
(16:26):
and share let's keep building agreat brokering community and
let's have a successful time withhopefully not too many conflicts
but at least you should know howto deal with them a bit better
have an awesome day cheers
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