Ep 199 - Mastering Conflict Resolution in Marriage: Healthy Alternatives to Seeking Absolute Victory
August 22, 2024 • 20 mins
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Welcome to Mr. and Mrs. Therapy, the podcast that empowers you to transform life's challenges into opportunities for personal growth and healthier relationships. We're your hosts, Tim and Ruth Olson, licensed marriage and family therapists and trauma experts. Together, we'll unravel the layers of personal growth, healing from trauma, and building healthy relationships.
In this episode, we continue our discussion from the last episode on why seeking absolute victory in arguments is detrimental to your marriage. We delve into the pitfalls and impacts of this approach on relationship dynamics. More importantly, we explore healthy alternatives to needing to win all the arguments.
First, we emphasize the importance of practicing active listening. Instead of engaging in combative listening, we discuss how to fully understand your partner's perspective through supportive listening techniques. We then move on to empathy and validation, explaining how these elements are crucial in fostering mutual understanding and reducing defensiveness.
Next, we highlight the need to look beyond surface arguments to identify underlying needs and fears driving the conflict. By understanding the heart behind the words, couples can navigate disagreements more effectively. Finally, we discuss the importance of seeking compromise and collaborative problem-solving, offering practical strategies for negotiating solutions that benefit both partners.
Join us as we provide insights and tools to help you transform conflict into a pathway for deeper connection and stronger relationships. Remember, in marriage, you're a team, and winning together is the ultimate goal.
Thank you for tuning in to this episode of Mr. and Mrs. Therapy. If you enjoyed today's episode, please share it with a friend and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. For more discussions and questions, visit our Facebook group via the link in the description. Remember, there's always hope and help available.
[Remember, our podcast is here to spark conversations and offer insights. Join our community on our Mr. and Mrs. Therapy Podcast Group, share your experiences at podcast@mrandmrstherapy.com, and if you're seeking more personalized advice, consider booking your free coaching consultation. Please note, this podcast is for informational purposes only and is not intended to provide diagnosis or treatment.]
{Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational purposes only and is not intended to provide diagnosis or treatment. For personalized support, please seek professional help or call the National Suicide Hotline at 988 if you or someone you know is contemplating suicide or needs emotional support.}
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Music.
(00:05):
Welcome to Mr. and Mrs. Therapy, the podcast that empowers you to transform
life's challenges into opportunities for personal growth and healthier relationships.
We're your hosts, Tim and Ruth Olson, licensed marriage and family therapists and trauma experts.
As experienced therapists with backgrounds in addressing trauma and mental health
disorders, we believe there is hope and there certainly is healing.
(00:25):
We've spent our lives supporting people through the ups and downs,
and we want to share these insights with you.
Together, we'll unravel the layers of personal growth, healing from trauma,
and building healthy relationships.
Each week, we'll bring you engaging conversations, expert insights,
and practical strategies to help you heal from the past, foster healthy communication,
and develop enduring love.
(00:47):
This podcast is your guide to transforming adversity into triumph,
healing wounds and past trauma, gaining wisdom and insight, and creating meaningful,
fulfilling connections.
So if you're here to heal, to better understand yourself or your relationships,
you're in the right place.
So sit back, get comfortable, bring your trauma and your drama,
(01:08):
and let's start healing.
Welcome to Mr. and Mrs. Therapy.
Music.
Hey everyone, welcome back to Mr. and Mrs. Therapy podcast.
We're so glad that you're here with us today. So we are continuing from the
last episode where we talked about why seeking absolute victory history is not
(01:32):
beneficial to you or to your marriage.
So we talked a little bit about the reasons and the drives maybe behind needing that or wanting that.
And then we talked about the pitfalls and the impacts that that has on your
relationship dynamics.
So today we're going to jump right back in and we're going to talk about what
are healthy alternatives to needing to win all the arguments.
(01:56):
So in the last episode, we had related it to the quote of winning the battle, but losing the war.
And so the first couple strategies and healthy alternatives that we have are
going to be really basic.
And we want to go back to the basics, because I think sometimes we miss that in communication.
And we think, yeah, yeah, I already know that.
(02:16):
But are you practicing it? The first thing really is to practice active listening,
where you want to make sure that you are listening to understand rather than
listening and then finding flaws or counter arguments and thinking in your mind
what you're gonna say next.
You wanna make sure that you're fully listening. You have all the components
(02:40):
of active listening, the eye contact.
Maybe you're nodding in agreement or even nodding that you're listening and
you're hearing and understanding and then paraphrasing to ensure that you're
understanding what they're saying and asking questions,
clarifying, all of that is part of active listening.
And I think a lot of times people actually, when they're doing their active
(03:01):
listening, they're not doing active listening, they're doing combative listening.
And so they'll be like shaking their head in disagreement or rolling their eyes or scowling.
And those are actions true, but that's not what we're talking about with active
listening. Active listening should be supportive listening.
So I'm listening. Okay, I understand. I hear you.
Those kinds of things. But a lot of times I understand your partner may be saying
(03:23):
something that you vehemently disagree with.
But if you're doing that combative listening, like I was talking about a second
ago, you're only inflaming the situation and you're making it worse.
And so if you want to be able to get yourselves into a position where we then can,
and we're going to go on to this a little bit later, but where we can negotiate
a peace treaty here where we can set up some compromises, where we both can
(03:44):
be relatively happy with the end outcome.
Come this is the first stages of the negotiation process.
If you want somebody to be willing to negotiate with you in good faith,
you want them to like you.
And if you're irritating and agitating them while they're talking,
you're setting yourself up in a bad position.
Right. And you said supportive listening. And I think sometimes we have difficulty
(04:06):
with that because we think, well, I don't want to think by nodding my head that
I'm agreeing with what they're saying.
This is just active listening so you can hear them all the way through and really
trying to understand them, even if you don't agree with them,
it's important to fully hear them out.
(04:27):
Because I think that's a lot of times where we mess up in communication is we
hear part of it, and then we assume we know what the rest of it is.
And I know that we've had that in our own communication, where we feel like
we know each other pretty well after the time that we've been together.
But frequently, I will assume that I know what he's going to say,
(04:47):
or he'll assume that he knows what I mean by it and what I'm going to say.
And then we get frustrated because we're not fully heard.
And I think that's an important part of communication is also our feelings, right?
If our feelings are inflamed, we're going to have a much harder time interpreting
what a partner is trying to say and then accepting things that they do say.
(05:07):
And so that connects with the next thing, which is empathy and validation.
So when you're thinking about empathizing, it's to understand where your partner's
coming from. Why are they feeling the way that they do?
And when you take the time to understand why are they feeling the way they are,
even if they have a misunderstanding, it should help you to view them in a more positive light.
But if you're not empathizing, you're only thinking about yourself and your
(05:30):
own emotions and how you feel and your own arguments, you're really disconnecting
yourself from that person.
And the problem is when you're not empathizing with people, it's much easier
to demonize them or turn them into somebody who you know they actually aren't
because you're upset or you're in an emotional state.
And so when you're trying to empathize, it really is trying to see why are they feeling this way?
(05:51):
I want to understand what is causing
you to feel that way or think I meant this when I didn't mean that.
And so it really does take time where you're trying to step out of your shoes
and you're trying to step into their shoes to see what is actually going on
here from them emotionally.
And again, it could be hard because they may have said something that may have
triggered off an emotional response from you.
But if you take that time and you're like, okay, let me wait,
(06:13):
let me look, let me try to see, let me try to analyze what's happening here.
It'll help put you in a much more calm and logical state of mind.
And then it's much easier to engage them in a helpful, healthy way when it's
your turn to start sharing your perspective.
Well, for sure. It does put you in that different mindset, but it can also shift
their dynamic from being adversarial to being a little bit more cooperative
(06:35):
because they feel heard and understood.
Because if you think about it, when people come at you and they start telling
you their perspective and why, what their thoughts and beliefs and even feelings
are right, and they're not validating anything you're saying,
then you begin to be protective of your thoughts and feelings,
(06:55):
and you're afraid that you're not going to be heard.
And so you have to make sure that you are vocal about it and you push against
that, which is that adversarial and
defensiveness that often pops up in conversations and in disagreements.
And I can see that in our own conversations and disagreements where if I don't validate you,
(07:17):
then for you, it feels like I'm just being defensive and telling you all the
reasons why I did something to defend myself.
But if I come in and I say, man, Tim, I could see why that is frustrating for
you, or I could totally see your perspective on that.
Then if I explain my actions after that, you're so much more open.
(07:40):
But if I just jump in and cut you off and say, well, yeah, I did that because
of this, without saying the, man, I could totally see why when I did that, that frustrated you.
There's such a big shift and such a big difference in our conversation?
Well, actually, I tell my clients all the time that the difference between defensiveness
or justifying and an explanation often has a lot to do with if you validated it or not.
(08:05):
If you didn't validate to the other person, your explanation is going to feel
like justification or defensiveness. But if you did validate them.
Now it's going to be viewed as more of an explanation as to what had happened.
And so actually, while you're talking, Ruth, I was kind of thinking about this.
I was like, okay, how do I explain this?
And I was thinking, empathy and validation, it's like two parts of a recipe.
(08:26):
And if you want this conversation to go well when your partner is speaking,
you need to empathize with them, but then you also need to validate them.
And so it's like baking cookies, right?
If you put in butter, but you don't put in sugar, the recipe is going to not come out right.
If you put in sugar, but you don't put in butter, your recipe is not going to come out right.
And so you have to have both of these ingredients included in
the recipe for this conversation to go well you
(08:48):
need to empathize with your partner and then after they're done
speaking you need to validate what they have said now validation isn't
you saying you agree with them but it's letting them know i can see why you
think or feel that way based on what you said to me that totally makes sense
and see that's a great example of how you can do with somebody is hey i could
totally see why you would think or feel that way based on what you told me so
(09:11):
there's that little bit of wiggle room where you're saying like,
I may not agree with you without telling them that you don't agree with them.
But then it allows you to say like, hey, I might have a different viewpoint
from you on this, which is totally fine too.
And if you have put in the correct ingredients, you're much more likely to get
a good outcome from your partner if you then give them a different perspective after that.
(09:32):
I like how you talked about it as a recipe.
So the first part of the recipe, we talked about active listening,
and then we just talked about empathy and validation.
The next thing we want to talk a little bit about is looking beyond what we see on the surface.
So sometimes there's some surface arguments that are happening,
but we really have to look a little bit deeper and identify what is their underlying
(09:55):
need or fears that might be driving the conflict.
An example that I use a lot of times is if I say, Tim, you never take out the trash.
And I use that kind of all or nothing thinking. And I say, you never take out the trash.
If we were to elaborate on that a little bit more or he dug a little deeper
and he can see what my heart behind that is, it's probably not just taking out the trash,
(10:20):
but it's probably me feeling overwhelmed by the work or me needing more help
around the house or something to that effect. that.
And again, that's a good way to help you empathize with them more if you look
at it in a more broad statement as opposed to just trying to isolate it.
Why are they acting this way with just this one situation?
The trash isn't that big of a deal versus, oh, you know what?
(10:42):
Actually, they're shouldering the majority of the household chores or they do
have a lot of stuff that's going on right now that can be exacerbating how they
feel about this specific situation.
And when you think about it that way, again, it helps give you more of that
empathetic look at it and to feel like, okay, like they're not being unreasonable
if I actually take everything into consideration.
And this is really where it can go south, right? It was my delivery and me saying,
(11:07):
you never take out the trash.
He can get defensive easily and say, no, I just took it out the other day.
Or I think even more what happens is then people get defensive and defend all
the things that they do in the marriage.
And they say things like, well, I'm working all the time.
Or I need to make sure that I'm providing because you're going out and you're
(11:29):
buying coffee and shopping and all that.
And they start to get defensive and they say all the things that they're doing
rather than really hearing the heart behind it and seeing and empathizing that.
Oh man, they are with the kids all day. Or I bet she is tired.
And it's not saying that you're not tired.
It's not taking away from the hard work that you're doing.
(11:52):
But it's just empathizing and seeing what the heart behind it is and seeing
that she might be exhausted as well.
And so I think most people will go into this defensiveness and almost this one-upmanship
of like, well, I do more here.
Or I'm even more tired than you. Or I didn't sleep last night because I got up with the baby.
And we kind of one up each other on why we're more miserable or why we're more
(12:15):
tired or why we're more overwhelmed rather than coming together and really empathizing
with each other and saying, man, Tim, I know that you're exhausted and I'm exhausted too.
And really bonding on that fact that together you're both experiencing very similar things.
So make sure that you look deeper and identify what's underneath that surface argument.
(12:38):
And the last part of the recipe that we're going to talk about today is seeking
compromise or collaborative problem solving rather than trying to achieve that absolute victory.
Now, I think this is a very difficult step because this requires being able
to think outside the box.
It requires being able to keep your emotions in check.
(12:59):
It requires being able to give up some ground on both sides.
And so it really requires two people who are willing to put their heads together
and willing not to let pride get in the way in trying to come to a solution
that both people can be relatively happy with.
Now, the thing about compromise is it's the situation where nobody can be 100%
happy because you're both having to give up a little bit of what you want in
(13:22):
order to get a little bit of what you want. And that's an uncomfortable prospect.
And again, though, this is why a lot of couples struggle is because they get
into this gridlock where they're trying to seek this absolute victory.
And if giving your partner absolute victory means you have to accept total defeat,
most people aren't willing to do that. And they'll just start fighting tooth and nail.
And so this collaborative problem solving process is very difficult.
(13:45):
But sitting down and really looking at the situation saying,
okay, you want this and I want that.
How can I give you a little bit of this? Well, I get a little bit of what I
want. and then working out the details from there.
A lot of times this can be really hard though because sometimes a couple will
sit down and they'll make a couple compromises here and then their partner will
ask for another thing or for something else to be shifted and then it can be very agitating.
(14:08):
People will be like, oh, that's it, forget the whole thing. And then you just lost all that progress.
I've definitely had that happen in sessions where I'm working out this compromise
with this couple and we're like 45,
50 minutes into the negotiating process and then somebody says something or
asks for something thing and the other partner had kind of felt pressed a little
bit too far and then they're just like forget the whole thing.
(14:29):
And to me, I'm like, why would you do that? Like we got there and you could
still say, well, hey, no, listen, I'm not willing to go that far.
I'm not willing to do that. But then we just say, forget the whole thing.
All of that emotion, all of that effort, all of that restraint that you just
put into that moment tends to get blown out the window.
And when you go that direction, it's really hard to recoup it.
Even if you come back later and say, hey, I really think a lot of what we had was good.
(14:52):
I want to go back to that. A lot of times it ends up, OK, now we have to renegotiate the whole thing.
And so this does require a lot of patience. And if you're getting to that point
where you're starting to get frustrated in the negotiating process,
sometimes you have to take a break and say, okay, well, let's take a little
bit of a breather from this or let's come back to this later.
And I think also what's really important, too, is with this process is writing
down what our negotiations are.
(15:13):
Hey, I want this. I want that. Okay, I would give up this if I could get this.
Okay, I'd be willing to do that.
So that later on, especially because these negotiating processes can be a little
bit heated, it can be hard to remember what you agreed to in those moments.
But if you write it down, then it's easier to go back to that.
And then when you re-pick up the discussion, then it's easier to then jump right
(15:34):
back in and start talking about those things.
I remember I was working with a couple recently, and I was hearing about these issues that they'd had.
And fortunately, I'd been seeing them long enough where there was one issue
I remember that we were deadlocked on, and then a new issue had kind of come up.
And it said, hey, here's a great solution.
If you do this, then you also then do this. And so one person wanted one thing
(15:58):
to be done, the other person wanted another thing to be done,
but neither of them on their own wanted to do those things.
But then when I brought those two things together, I said, hey.
If you got this, would you be willing to let them get this? And then they both
said, yeah, I'd be willing to do that.
And so they were able to, they had these pieces where they weren't necessarily
saving them as like any type of negotiating chip or something like that.
(16:19):
But it ended up being something where the other person was like,
no, this isn't worth it for me. I'm not comfortable with this.
But then when they wanted something, the other person was like,
no, I'm not comfortable with this.
But then those things that they both want were valuable enough to them where
they were willing to make that compromise.
Compromise and again that's not an easy thing to do sometimes
you might be a little bit long suffering while you're waiting for the
(16:40):
compromise to come in but if something does come
up then you can know okay this is something maybe we could talk about trying
to compromise on i wanted this you wanted that and that would be willing to
give you this if you were willing to give me that now obviously everything shouldn't
be a negotiation everything shouldn't be a compromise but especially those hot
button issues that are really hard in your relationship to get an agreement or get movement on,
(17:01):
finding some level of compromise like that can be very helpful.
And I think another consideration is like at the beginning, we talked about
how, yes, sometimes decisions have to be made.
And that's kind of where we need to compromise and do these different negotiations.
But sometimes part of seeking compromise or collaborative problem solving really
(17:23):
is just coming together and agreeing that we're not going to agree on this,
but we're going to respect the other person's opinion on it.
And it may even be things that are just so silly or really not important that we get heated about.
And we try to convince the other person that, no, this is the right thing.
So really coming to the place where we're okay with it and it's not really important.
(17:47):
But sometimes these are issues that are more important to us and we still have
to, at that point, come to a place where we're okay and we're going to respect each other's opinion.
All right, you guys, we hope that that was helpful in finding different healthy
alternatives to addressing conflict
and not feeling like you have to seek absolute victory in arguments.
(18:10):
Because really, in your marriage, you are a team. You are one.
And so really, you're not trying to win.
It really is coming together and working together and finding something that
works for your marriage.
And knowing that sometimes when you don't get your way, that that might benefit
your marriage in the long run.
(18:31):
And that's a good thing. and going back to that
initial idiom that we talked about that if
you win the battle but you lose the war it really isn't a
win so really it's okay to lose tiny battles
it's okay to lose tiny arguments in a sense and compromise and come together
so that you can win that war you do not want to compromise that you do not want
(18:54):
to lose the war you don't want to lose your marriage and so think about really
making sure that you are protecting your marriage in the long run.
All right, you guys, have a great day. And remember, your mind is a powerful thing.
Music.
Thank you so much for tuning in to this episode of Mr. and Mrs.
(19:17):
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(19:40):
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Please seek professional help or call the National Suicide Hotline at 988.
(20:02):
Thank you again for joining us on Mr. and Mrs. Therapy. Remember,
there's always hope and there's always help.
Music.
Music.
(00:05):
Welcome to Mr. and Mrs. Therapy, the podcast that empowers you to transform
life's challenges into opportunities for personal growth and healthier relationships.
We're your hosts, Tim and Ruth Olson, licensed marriage and family therapists and trauma experts.
As experienced therapists with backgrounds in addressing trauma and mental health
disorders, we believe there is hope and there certainly is healing.
(00:25):
We've spent our lives supporting people through the ups and downs,
and we want to share these insights with you.
Together, we'll unravel the layers of personal growth, healing from trauma,
and building healthy relationships.
Each week, we'll bring you engaging conversations, expert insights,
and practical strategies to help you heal from the past, foster healthy communication,
and develop enduring love.
(00:47):
This podcast is your guide to transforming adversity into triumph,
healing wounds and past trauma, gaining wisdom and insight, and creating meaningful,
fulfilling connections.
So if you're here to heal, to better understand yourself or your relationships,
you're in the right place.
So sit back, get comfortable, bring your trauma and your drama,
(01:08):
and let's start healing.
Welcome to Mr. and Mrs. Therapy.
Music.
Hey everyone, welcome back to Mr. and Mrs. Therapy podcast.
We're so glad that you're here with us today. So we are continuing from the
last episode where we talked about why seeking absolute victory history is not
(01:32):
beneficial to you or to your marriage.
So we talked a little bit about the reasons and the drives maybe behind needing that or wanting that.
And then we talked about the pitfalls and the impacts that that has on your
relationship dynamics.
So today we're going to jump right back in and we're going to talk about what
are healthy alternatives to needing to win all the arguments.
(01:56):
So in the last episode, we had related it to the quote of winning the battle, but losing the war.
And so the first couple strategies and healthy alternatives that we have are
going to be really basic.
And we want to go back to the basics, because I think sometimes we miss that in communication.
And we think, yeah, yeah, I already know that.
(02:16):
But are you practicing it? The first thing really is to practice active listening,
where you want to make sure that you are listening to understand rather than
listening and then finding flaws or counter arguments and thinking in your mind
what you're gonna say next.
You wanna make sure that you're fully listening. You have all the components
(02:40):
of active listening, the eye contact.
Maybe you're nodding in agreement or even nodding that you're listening and
you're hearing and understanding and then paraphrasing to ensure that you're
understanding what they're saying and asking questions,
clarifying, all of that is part of active listening.
And I think a lot of times people actually, when they're doing their active
(03:01):
listening, they're not doing active listening, they're doing combative listening.
And so they'll be like shaking their head in disagreement or rolling their eyes or scowling.
And those are actions true, but that's not what we're talking about with active
listening. Active listening should be supportive listening.
So I'm listening. Okay, I understand. I hear you.
Those kinds of things. But a lot of times I understand your partner may be saying
(03:23):
something that you vehemently disagree with.
But if you're doing that combative listening, like I was talking about a second
ago, you're only inflaming the situation and you're making it worse.
And so if you want to be able to get yourselves into a position where we then can,
and we're going to go on to this a little bit later, but where we can negotiate
a peace treaty here where we can set up some compromises, where we both can
(03:44):
be relatively happy with the end outcome.
Come this is the first stages of the negotiation process.
If you want somebody to be willing to negotiate with you in good faith,
you want them to like you.
And if you're irritating and agitating them while they're talking,
you're setting yourself up in a bad position.
Right. And you said supportive listening. And I think sometimes we have difficulty
(04:06):
with that because we think, well, I don't want to think by nodding my head that
I'm agreeing with what they're saying.
This is just active listening so you can hear them all the way through and really
trying to understand them, even if you don't agree with them,
it's important to fully hear them out.
(04:27):
Because I think that's a lot of times where we mess up in communication is we
hear part of it, and then we assume we know what the rest of it is.
And I know that we've had that in our own communication, where we feel like
we know each other pretty well after the time that we've been together.
But frequently, I will assume that I know what he's going to say,
(04:47):
or he'll assume that he knows what I mean by it and what I'm going to say.
And then we get frustrated because we're not fully heard.
And I think that's an important part of communication is also our feelings, right?
If our feelings are inflamed, we're going to have a much harder time interpreting
what a partner is trying to say and then accepting things that they do say.
(05:07):
And so that connects with the next thing, which is empathy and validation.
So when you're thinking about empathizing, it's to understand where your partner's
coming from. Why are they feeling the way that they do?
And when you take the time to understand why are they feeling the way they are,
even if they have a misunderstanding, it should help you to view them in a more positive light.
But if you're not empathizing, you're only thinking about yourself and your
(05:30):
own emotions and how you feel and your own arguments, you're really disconnecting
yourself from that person.
And the problem is when you're not empathizing with people, it's much easier
to demonize them or turn them into somebody who you know they actually aren't
because you're upset or you're in an emotional state.
And so when you're trying to empathize, it really is trying to see why are they feeling this way?
(05:51):
I want to understand what is causing
you to feel that way or think I meant this when I didn't mean that.
And so it really does take time where you're trying to step out of your shoes
and you're trying to step into their shoes to see what is actually going on
here from them emotionally.
And again, it could be hard because they may have said something that may have
triggered off an emotional response from you.
But if you take that time and you're like, okay, let me wait,
(06:13):
let me look, let me try to see, let me try to analyze what's happening here.
It'll help put you in a much more calm and logical state of mind.
And then it's much easier to engage them in a helpful, healthy way when it's
your turn to start sharing your perspective.
Well, for sure. It does put you in that different mindset, but it can also shift
their dynamic from being adversarial to being a little bit more cooperative
(06:35):
because they feel heard and understood.
Because if you think about it, when people come at you and they start telling
you their perspective and why, what their thoughts and beliefs and even feelings
are right, and they're not validating anything you're saying,
then you begin to be protective of your thoughts and feelings,
(06:55):
and you're afraid that you're not going to be heard.
And so you have to make sure that you are vocal about it and you push against
that, which is that adversarial and
defensiveness that often pops up in conversations and in disagreements.
And I can see that in our own conversations and disagreements where if I don't validate you,
(07:17):
then for you, it feels like I'm just being defensive and telling you all the
reasons why I did something to defend myself.
But if I come in and I say, man, Tim, I could see why that is frustrating for
you, or I could totally see your perspective on that.
Then if I explain my actions after that, you're so much more open.
(07:40):
But if I just jump in and cut you off and say, well, yeah, I did that because
of this, without saying the, man, I could totally see why when I did that, that frustrated you.
There's such a big shift and such a big difference in our conversation?
Well, actually, I tell my clients all the time that the difference between defensiveness
or justifying and an explanation often has a lot to do with if you validated it or not.
(08:05):
If you didn't validate to the other person, your explanation is going to feel
like justification or defensiveness. But if you did validate them.
Now it's going to be viewed as more of an explanation as to what had happened.
And so actually, while you're talking, Ruth, I was kind of thinking about this.
I was like, okay, how do I explain this?
And I was thinking, empathy and validation, it's like two parts of a recipe.
(08:26):
And if you want this conversation to go well when your partner is speaking,
you need to empathize with them, but then you also need to validate them.
And so it's like baking cookies, right?
If you put in butter, but you don't put in sugar, the recipe is going to not come out right.
If you put in sugar, but you don't put in butter, your recipe is not going to come out right.
And so you have to have both of these ingredients included in
the recipe for this conversation to go well you
(08:48):
need to empathize with your partner and then after they're done
speaking you need to validate what they have said now validation isn't
you saying you agree with them but it's letting them know i can see why you
think or feel that way based on what you said to me that totally makes sense
and see that's a great example of how you can do with somebody is hey i could
totally see why you would think or feel that way based on what you told me so
(09:11):
there's that little bit of wiggle room where you're saying like,
I may not agree with you without telling them that you don't agree with them.
But then it allows you to say like, hey, I might have a different viewpoint
from you on this, which is totally fine too.
And if you have put in the correct ingredients, you're much more likely to get
a good outcome from your partner if you then give them a different perspective after that.
(09:32):
I like how you talked about it as a recipe.
So the first part of the recipe, we talked about active listening,
and then we just talked about empathy and validation.
The next thing we want to talk a little bit about is looking beyond what we see on the surface.
So sometimes there's some surface arguments that are happening,
but we really have to look a little bit deeper and identify what is their underlying
(09:55):
need or fears that might be driving the conflict.
An example that I use a lot of times is if I say, Tim, you never take out the trash.
And I use that kind of all or nothing thinking. And I say, you never take out the trash.
If we were to elaborate on that a little bit more or he dug a little deeper
and he can see what my heart behind that is, it's probably not just taking out the trash,
(10:20):
but it's probably me feeling overwhelmed by the work or me needing more help
around the house or something to that effect. that.
And again, that's a good way to help you empathize with them more if you look
at it in a more broad statement as opposed to just trying to isolate it.
Why are they acting this way with just this one situation?
The trash isn't that big of a deal versus, oh, you know what?
(10:42):
Actually, they're shouldering the majority of the household chores or they do
have a lot of stuff that's going on right now that can be exacerbating how they
feel about this specific situation.
And when you think about it that way, again, it helps give you more of that
empathetic look at it and to feel like, okay, like they're not being unreasonable
if I actually take everything into consideration.
And this is really where it can go south, right? It was my delivery and me saying,
(11:07):
you never take out the trash.
He can get defensive easily and say, no, I just took it out the other day.
Or I think even more what happens is then people get defensive and defend all
the things that they do in the marriage.
And they say things like, well, I'm working all the time.
Or I need to make sure that I'm providing because you're going out and you're
(11:29):
buying coffee and shopping and all that.
And they start to get defensive and they say all the things that they're doing
rather than really hearing the heart behind it and seeing and empathizing that.
Oh man, they are with the kids all day. Or I bet she is tired.
And it's not saying that you're not tired.
It's not taking away from the hard work that you're doing.
(11:52):
But it's just empathizing and seeing what the heart behind it is and seeing
that she might be exhausted as well.
And so I think most people will go into this defensiveness and almost this one-upmanship
of like, well, I do more here.
Or I'm even more tired than you. Or I didn't sleep last night because I got up with the baby.
And we kind of one up each other on why we're more miserable or why we're more
(12:15):
tired or why we're more overwhelmed rather than coming together and really empathizing
with each other and saying, man, Tim, I know that you're exhausted and I'm exhausted too.
And really bonding on that fact that together you're both experiencing very similar things.
So make sure that you look deeper and identify what's underneath that surface argument.
(12:38):
And the last part of the recipe that we're going to talk about today is seeking
compromise or collaborative problem solving rather than trying to achieve that absolute victory.
Now, I think this is a very difficult step because this requires being able
to think outside the box.
It requires being able to keep your emotions in check.
(12:59):
It requires being able to give up some ground on both sides.
And so it really requires two people who are willing to put their heads together
and willing not to let pride get in the way in trying to come to a solution
that both people can be relatively happy with.
Now, the thing about compromise is it's the situation where nobody can be 100%
happy because you're both having to give up a little bit of what you want in
(13:22):
order to get a little bit of what you want. And that's an uncomfortable prospect.
And again, though, this is why a lot of couples struggle is because they get
into this gridlock where they're trying to seek this absolute victory.
And if giving your partner absolute victory means you have to accept total defeat,
most people aren't willing to do that. And they'll just start fighting tooth and nail.
And so this collaborative problem solving process is very difficult.
(13:45):
But sitting down and really looking at the situation saying,
okay, you want this and I want that.
How can I give you a little bit of this? Well, I get a little bit of what I
want. and then working out the details from there.
A lot of times this can be really hard though because sometimes a couple will
sit down and they'll make a couple compromises here and then their partner will
ask for another thing or for something else to be shifted and then it can be very agitating.
(14:08):
People will be like, oh, that's it, forget the whole thing. And then you just lost all that progress.
I've definitely had that happen in sessions where I'm working out this compromise
with this couple and we're like 45,
50 minutes into the negotiating process and then somebody says something or
asks for something thing and the other partner had kind of felt pressed a little
bit too far and then they're just like forget the whole thing.
(14:29):
And to me, I'm like, why would you do that? Like we got there and you could
still say, well, hey, no, listen, I'm not willing to go that far.
I'm not willing to do that. But then we just say, forget the whole thing.
All of that emotion, all of that effort, all of that restraint that you just
put into that moment tends to get blown out the window.
And when you go that direction, it's really hard to recoup it.
Even if you come back later and say, hey, I really think a lot of what we had was good.
(14:52):
I want to go back to that. A lot of times it ends up, OK, now we have to renegotiate the whole thing.
And so this does require a lot of patience. And if you're getting to that point
where you're starting to get frustrated in the negotiating process,
sometimes you have to take a break and say, okay, well, let's take a little
bit of a breather from this or let's come back to this later.
And I think also what's really important, too, is with this process is writing
down what our negotiations are.
(15:13):
Hey, I want this. I want that. Okay, I would give up this if I could get this.
Okay, I'd be willing to do that.
So that later on, especially because these negotiating processes can be a little
bit heated, it can be hard to remember what you agreed to in those moments.
But if you write it down, then it's easier to go back to that.
And then when you re-pick up the discussion, then it's easier to then jump right
(15:34):
back in and start talking about those things.
I remember I was working with a couple recently, and I was hearing about these issues that they'd had.
And fortunately, I'd been seeing them long enough where there was one issue
I remember that we were deadlocked on, and then a new issue had kind of come up.
And it said, hey, here's a great solution.
If you do this, then you also then do this. And so one person wanted one thing
(15:58):
to be done, the other person wanted another thing to be done,
but neither of them on their own wanted to do those things.
But then when I brought those two things together, I said, hey.
If you got this, would you be willing to let them get this? And then they both
said, yeah, I'd be willing to do that.
And so they were able to, they had these pieces where they weren't necessarily
saving them as like any type of negotiating chip or something like that.
(16:19):
But it ended up being something where the other person was like,
no, this isn't worth it for me. I'm not comfortable with this.
But then when they wanted something, the other person was like,
no, I'm not comfortable with this.
But then those things that they both want were valuable enough to them where
they were willing to make that compromise.
Compromise and again that's not an easy thing to do sometimes
you might be a little bit long suffering while you're waiting for the
(16:40):
compromise to come in but if something does come
up then you can know okay this is something maybe we could talk about trying
to compromise on i wanted this you wanted that and that would be willing to
give you this if you were willing to give me that now obviously everything shouldn't
be a negotiation everything shouldn't be a compromise but especially those hot
button issues that are really hard in your relationship to get an agreement or get movement on,
(17:01):
finding some level of compromise like that can be very helpful.
And I think another consideration is like at the beginning, we talked about
how, yes, sometimes decisions have to be made.
And that's kind of where we need to compromise and do these different negotiations.
But sometimes part of seeking compromise or collaborative problem solving really
(17:23):
is just coming together and agreeing that we're not going to agree on this,
but we're going to respect the other person's opinion on it.
And it may even be things that are just so silly or really not important that we get heated about.
And we try to convince the other person that, no, this is the right thing.
So really coming to the place where we're okay with it and it's not really important.
(17:47):
But sometimes these are issues that are more important to us and we still have
to, at that point, come to a place where we're okay and we're going to respect each other's opinion.
All right, you guys, we hope that that was helpful in finding different healthy
alternatives to addressing conflict
and not feeling like you have to seek absolute victory in arguments.
(18:10):
Because really, in your marriage, you are a team. You are one.
And so really, you're not trying to win.
It really is coming together and working together and finding something that
works for your marriage.
And knowing that sometimes when you don't get your way, that that might benefit
your marriage in the long run.
(18:31):
And that's a good thing. and going back to that
initial idiom that we talked about that if
you win the battle but you lose the war it really isn't a
win so really it's okay to lose tiny battles
it's okay to lose tiny arguments in a sense and compromise and come together
so that you can win that war you do not want to compromise that you do not want
(18:54):
to lose the war you don't want to lose your marriage and so think about really
making sure that you are protecting your marriage in the long run.
All right, you guys, have a great day. And remember, your mind is a powerful thing.
Music.
Thank you so much for tuning in to this episode of Mr. and Mrs.
(19:17):
Therapy. We hope that you enjoyed today's episode and found it helpful.
If so, would you take 30 seconds and share it with a friend?
Also, we'd love for you to leave us a review on Apple Podcast.
It lights us up to know that this podcast is helping you.
If you have any questions or a topic you'd like discussed in future episodes,
visit our Facebook group. Just click the link in the description below.
(19:40):
Although we are mental health providers, this podcast is for informational purposes
only and is not intended to provide diagnosis or treatment.
If you are struggling with persistent mental health issues, chronic marital
issues, or feeling hopeless or suicidal, you are not alone. loan. Help is available.
Please seek professional help or call the National Suicide Hotline at 988.
(20:02):
Thank you again for joining us on Mr. and Mrs. Therapy. Remember,
there's always hope and there's always help.
Music.
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