April 8, 2025 • 34 mins
I think one of the most confusing and painful parts of growing up is how friendships change—especially when there’s no big argument, just distance… or silence.
In this episode, I sat down with my long-time friend Dimitri to talk honestly about what it’s like when friendships shift. We’ve been friends for over 25 years, and our dynamic has definitely ebbed and flowed, but somehow, we’ve always found our way back to that same, easy connection. Still, we’ve both had experiences where friendships just faded—or ended without any real explanation—and it can leave you questioning everything.
We talked about:
-
The difference between friendships that evolve vs. ones that slowly drift
-
What it feels like when you bump into someone who used to be a “birthday dinner” person and now won’t even say hi
-
That weird space where you’re not angry… but still hurt
-
How relationships, timelines, life stages, and even effort (or lack of it) change friendships
-
And yes… that sting when someone makes more effort with other people, but not you
I also opened up about how my past relationship impacted my friendships in ways I didn’t even realise at the time. And Dimitri shared a story of reconnecting with a friend after 8 years apart—which gave me hope that sometimes, the door isn’t always fully closed.
This one is personal, a little messy, and super honest. If you’ve ever had a friendship fade without really knowing why—or if you’re navigating that weird grief that comes with growing apart—I hope this episode makes you feel seen.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Hi there.
My name is Giulia, and welcome tothe Self-Development Collective.
Here we explore personal developmentin a way that honors all parts of
ourselves, including the tricky parts.
I share genuine stories andreflections mixed with ideas from
psychotherapy and self-developmentto help us figure out how to live
more authentically and build deeperconnections with ourselves and others.
(00:21):
I am so excited to have you here.
Let's get into this episode.
I'm really excited.
This is what Giulia is so excited about.
She's like, I can't wait.
excited to have someone to talk tobecause the episodes are usually just me.
this is such a lovely vibe.
Okay.
Let's talk about friendships becausethis is a great space for us to talk
about because not only can we reflecton the friendships that we've had,
(00:44):
like in our own lives, but also ourfriendship has changed over time this
feels like the same conversations the waywe always have them, but we have ebbed
and flowed over like, what, 25 years,do you know what I really want to make
a distinction between in this episode?
The friendships that change versusthe friendships that end, Dim
(01:04):
and I went to the same school.
We had a group of friends.
We've not stayed in contact with everyone.
Why do you reckon that is?
I think it's personalities to be honest.
Yep.
And as you mature and you changeand you grow from high school,
you know, into a full blownadult, I think life experiences.
(01:26):
Yep.
I think shape and change people.
I think, your emotionalconnection to that person.
Yeah.
And understanding of that person andwhat they're going through in their life.
Your empathy as well.
I think empathy is a really big one.
Oh yeah?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I do, personally.
what do you mean?
(01:46):
What I mean is like, obviously,you know, you lost your brother.
You lost your Your father.
Yeah.
You know, not physically . I was like,
I clarify that, that I don't see,he's not in my life, but he Yeah.
He's not in your, hehasn't passed away alive.
Just in case.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Just in case.
Yeah.
You know, and your relationshipsand your family dynamics, I think,
(02:07):
you know, is something that I'vealways like, I know that it's
something that you've struggled with
Yeah.
In
your life.
I can relate to that with my familydynamics and how I felt in my life.
I'm not saying my family are bad peopleor anything like that whatsoever, you
(02:27):
know, but I feel like I've had challenges,in my family and extended family
because of the way I grew up, you know?
And I think that's something thatstill to today still is very.
Relatable to each other, sowe have that common ground.
I think that's why your friendships,like, you stay friends with some
people and some people you don't.
Yeah, I definitely think we hadan experience, and again, I don't
(02:50):
think it's like intentional.
don't think it's intentional.
But I do think that we are, like we saidin the previous episode, our thinking
doesn't probably match with What ourfamilies do, and then there's a sense
of isolation that comes with that, asense of loneliness, culturally, I do
think that we had certain expectations,gender expectations, like as in what
work we should have done based purelyon our gender, like, expectations
(03:11):
around the way we needed to be.
I just think, we definitelyshared that for sure.
I think it's the upbringing
Yeah.
I think it's the upbringingand expectations on.
Us.
That we have in common.
You know?
Yeah.
And other people, like, I can think ofa fair few other people that were in our
group of friends, and extended friends.
(03:34):
I see what you're saying.
Yes, but I do see what you're sayingin that our home experience was
more similar than in comparisonto the other people in our group.
Yeah, and our values andall that sort of stuff.
I think it's all those thingsthat, keep you friends with certain
people and not friends with others.
(03:55):
Yeah.
effort as well.
Yeah, Effort to an extent I think.
Yeah, because I feel likewe're balanced in that sense.
We kind of, you know,we do make an effort.
I think in, in a good way, ina way that feels right for us.
But I do think that part can get tricky.
I reckon friendships on myend, in terms of my life, have
(04:15):
changed because of the effort.
There's friendships that changeover like time, timelines.
I feel like that's something we'veexperienced for example, I might've seen
you less when you moved a job becauseyou found different friends and went
into that world and I was in anotherworld and I was always in a relationship.
So that kind of took me another way.
but then I feel like differenttimelines is one thing that changes
(04:35):
friendships, like where you're at.
effort is another one.
but changing circumstances and Ifind that too, depending on where the
other person's at, I think changingcircumstances is one of the biggest
things that's changed a friendship for me.
Yeah, I would agree with that.
It's
not necessarily a big falling out.
No,
no.
It's like I've done something,achieved something, met someone,
(04:56):
whatever, gone a certain way and theother person's struggled with that.
I feel like maybe, but not beingable to articulate it, I think that's
something that I'm recognizing.
what do you reckon?
Like if you think about any friendship,one that's maybe not ended necessarily
badly, but it's, there's something therethat's not like, it's not like a, for
(05:17):
example, if we didn't see each other for acouple of months, it's not like we think,
Oh, did I do something we don't have that,but you know, you have that friendship.
You're like, I'm not a hundredpercent sure why that ended.
Like something's not right there.
Do you have that?
I can think of one.
Yeah, absolutely.
Why do you
when you think about it?
that's what I mean.
I think that's a bit confusing,
I think, um, oh, I don't know.
(05:39):
That's hard, isn't it?
It is a hard one.
I reckon that's the hardest ending.
That's what I'm saying.
When friendships change, the endingsthat are not clear, but you know
something doesn't feel right.
You're like, something bothered them.
Something happened there that upset them.
Maybe, like, not somethingthat was intentional.
Look, I think, with onefriendship particularly, the
way that ended was unexpected.
(06:00):
Yeah.
and I think, I feel like I've alwaysbeen the kind of person to back down
and just accept whatever it is becauseI don't want to lose the friendship,
even though I think I could beright in the situation, I don't want
to lose the friendship, so I just
play truth,
but with this particular situation,I think it was, like, I explained
(06:23):
myself well enough, Yeah.
And I think that the otherperson didn't accept that.
Oh, so you explained it andthe person was like, no.
they were just like, I don't agree.
I don't think that's okay.
Oh.
And I think it just didn't meetthat person's expectations.
My reasoning as to why Icouldn't attend an event.
(06:48):
Oh, it was about an event.
clear, this is why I'm upset with you.
Yeah.
that person was really upset with me aboutan event that I didn't attend, even though
I explained why I wasn't going to attend.
And for me that was like, Iknew in that moment I was like,
well, tough I'm not coming.
(07:09):
interesting though?
then that person distancedthemselves from me.
Gave me the cold shoulder.
So I was like, well, I'm not goingto accept that behavior because
I've done nothing really wrong.
Yes, I understand I didn't come toyour event But I also don't think that
you need to stop being friends with mebecause I didn't come to your event.
How
long were you friends for?
(07:30):
we were friends for awhile, a fair few years.
Like, multiple, multiple years.
Probably a good eight, I would say.
Oh,
wow.
At least.
Yeah, okay, so it wasn'tlike a two years, like,
sort of, new ish friend.
no, no, no.
It was a very good friend.
Oh,
wow.
A very good friend, you know.
when it ended, I was abit, I was disappointed.
But in the same breath, like, itwas something, also, I feel like
the friendship ran its course.
(07:51):
That person's life also went into adifferent direction with children and
marriage and all of that sort of stuff.
And I think we were just ondifferent paths and at crossroads,
yeah, at crossroads, yeah,I think the values changed.
it was just like, well, I'm not backingdown because I know I did nothing wrong.
That person also is quitea stubborn personality too.
(08:15):
And they obviously didn'twant to back down either.
And that was it.
That's it.
At least I suppose you guyshad, a misunderstanding.
This is why it ended.
Like you can say, okay, we grewapart, the values obviously changed
based on the argument we've had.
I think the tricky ones can alsobe the friendships that again, they
change, but they don't necessarily,again, they change with things unsaid.
(08:37):
have you had a change like that whereit's not been a clear argument or It's
sort of they just don't give you much.
I've had that and that's beenreally, that's been tough as well.
That's why I'm curious.
Have you had something like that?
I would say yes.
I would say yes, definitely.
yeah,
I've had
many, I've had manyfriendships like nicely.
(08:58):
It is hard, but I also think, Idon't know, for me, those sort
of friendships that let go of.
friendships that didn'tlast that long anyway.
Ah, so you're saying the ones that endedthat way were probably only transitional
sort of friendships anyway, as theyweren't those long standing ones.
Yeah.
Okay.
I would say, and I'd confidently say,I've got a lot of friends, even though
(09:21):
my friends, or girlfriends predominantly,are all married and they've all got kids
now and everyone's got families now.
So my friendship dynamicshave definitely shifted.
Yeah, you've expanded a lot.
Yeah, absolutely, a lot.
but I would say that I have stillmy, I still have very long term
standing friends from childhood.
Yeah.
I don't think many peoplecan say that either.
(09:42):
No.
I think that speaks volumes of thetype of person you are, you know?
Oh, I agree.
thinking about our friendship,how long it's gone.
Yeah.
Like how much it's I don't know ifit's changed, or for some reason
we've just worked with the changes.
Like, we've changed, but thedynamic hasn't always changed.
I feel like, I
think our friendship has evolved with
(10:02):
life's changes.
Yes, yes.
That's a great way to say it.
Like, it's kind of like, when we'vegone our separate ways, we've gone like,
we're gonna grow a bit, we'll come back.
Yeah, I would agree with that.
Yeah, and then when we come backit's like, oh, okay, I think,
I think because you've alwaysbeen in relationships as well.
Oh, that's hard, yeah.
that's something that, from teenagers,really, from high school, you've
always been in a relationship.
(10:24):
So, we're always friends, but ourfriendship, I guess, has always remained
as, you're in a relationship, I'm single.
You know what I
mean?
Oh, yeah, I supposethat throws time limits.
Because when you're in a relationship,you've obviously got less time.
So I feel like that's
probably what's kept us still friendsfor so long, because I accepted,
I'm making assumptions here, No,I never thought about it this way.
(10:45):
I'm seeing it like that because Ifeel like that's probably a huge,
unclear factor maybe as to how it'sdeveloped to still be friends today.
I am surprised that any friendshipslasted out of my previous relationship
because it was a controlling relationship.
I remember this distinct memory of youtexting me and saying, Hey, you free
(11:07):
to catch up, which was last minute.
And you didn't usually do that.
And I remember being like, Oh,I can't, I'm at so and so's
house, my partner at the time.
And just thinking like.
Oh, like I can't catch up with him, butmore cause I was like, I can't just get
up and go even if I want to, I can't.
And I felt not because I was unsafe, butalso cause I was also there, but also
(11:28):
like, you know, at your partner's house.
But I suppose, yeah, when you have apartner, like when you catch up with
friends, it's, it's, and you're in arelationship, it's not as unorganized.
you can't just all last, like youcan do a last minute, but it depends.
Like I felt like for me.
In that relationship, I reallystruggled to make last minute plans
with you on my end, for me, becauseof what was happening on my end.
(11:50):
Yeah, that made a big
Yeah.
That made a big difference.
That relationship, I feel like, really
Which Sometimes it's that.
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think, you know, on that wholething of last minute plans and being in a
relationship, I think that's, like, not Idon't think that's a healthy thing either,
because you're also your
So, you know, obviously withinreason, you're not going to be doing
(12:12):
it every day, but if every couple ofweeks someone messages being like,
Hey, are you free to go for brunchor grab a coffee or go for a walk
You should be able to do that.
what's the big deal?
Like, you're gonna be gone for acouple of hours and you'll be back.
like you're running away.
You know what
I mean?
I probably should
have.
you did in the end.
(12:33):
Have you found that with other friendsthat have been in relationships?
Just curious.
Yes and no.
Oh, so some yes, some no.
It's kind of varied.
I can't really say that, I shouldsay yes, because all my friends are
in relationships and I'm sure I'veexperienced that at some point where I
might be like, Hey, you're free tonight.
And they're like, no,
yeah.
You know,
do you think,
but I also know who to messageand not message, you know?
(12:58):
So you get a natural gist
Sunday at four o'clock being like, Hey,do you want to go for dinner tonight?
Do you know what I mean?
You've got a husband and twokids, like the answer's no.
Do you know
what though?
If I wasn't tired, I feellike I'd be more likely
to go now.
Than in that previous relationship.
Really?
Yeah.
I
think
that just goes to show thedifference in relationship though.
(13:20):
Yeah, I was Like even with kids.
I was like, Oh, dim messaged.
That was on the Sunday when we caught up.
I was like, Oh, Sundays areusually only because Ryan.
was working Saturdays.
I'm like, Oh, Sundays are family days,but also we don't get to catch up much.
So my husband was like, go, absolutely.
And I was like, yeah, I'm going to go.
Like I'm going to escape.
I think that that's so healthythat your husband turned around
(13:42):
and said to you, ,of course, go.
But isn't that interesting?
You've got that greatrelationship that you can do that.
I think though that it has, when youthink about it too, the relationships
that people are in definitely impactsthe quality of the other relationships.
So I think too, like, yeah, the previousrelationship was a lot different.
And so for me to do that,even without kids would have
(14:02):
been like, what do you mean?
it wouldn't have been as well taken.
I think that was something that.
Impacted my relationships too.
And I wasn't even aware ofcompletely until I reflect on that.
And then you and I were having thisconversation, but I just think,
yeah, friendship changes are hard.
Their attachment changes too, especiallywhen you're really close with that person.
(14:23):
Absolutely.
Is there
one friend that you stillthink about that you miss?
You're like, I wish thatI could see that person.
it's funny, you know, cause like,I think yes, uh, no, not really.
No, not now.
Not now.
Okay.
Because I feel like the friend that I didmiss, I have become friends with again.
you reconnected?
(14:43):
Yeah.
I've reconnected again.
I think it's nice that you'rereconnected though, cause I
feel like, I haven't got many.
I think it's
great that I reconnected with thisfriend, but the friendship, was like
when I caught up with this friend, itwas like, I saw him yesterday, you know?
And
that's so good.
Yeah, it is really good.
And you know, we're bothchanged and evolved and.
Grown I'm a different person now.
(15:04):
He's a different person now as well.
You know, so I thinklike that reconnecting,
like it was meant to be.
Because we had, I spokefor about eight years.
Eight years.
a lot had happened in eight years.
Wow.
So I think it was really good havingto be able to be friends with him
again and have him back in your life.
(15:26):
I see what you're saying.
Yeah.
this is something I reckon maybewe can reflect on together.
My therapist said that relationshipschange every five to seven years.
Do you reckon that's true?
I think your whole life does.
Oh, I remember you saying that to me.
They're like life cycles.
is it six years?
What's the seven?
Oh, so it's seven year cycle.
(15:48):
where's that from?
Is that like a, like acultural thing or like a?
No, I think
it's like a spiritual,universal, sort of a thing.
Yeah.
Okay.
They say every sevenyears, your life changes.
And from my experience,every seven to eight.
I've had huge life changes.
Oh my god, that
would make so much sense.
I have, seriously.
(16:08):
So 2018, cause this will be, this yearwill be 7 years since Pat's passed.
And I feel like, out of all the years,this is the year that things have really,
like, things have changed, but theinternal changes have really started.
Is the internal changes.
Yeah, it was kind of like itreally was an end of a cycle.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I did feel that.
Do you feel that now?
(16:29):
A hundred percent.
Yeah, okay.
I feel like last year.
was a really bad yet good year in a way.
I literally had like six monthswhere it was, six months of hard
experiences that made it very difficult.
(16:50):
And then the last six months were.
Also really hard, but on apositive flip side and dealing and
balancing that hard and good times.
But that's growth, I reckon.
this year is like a fresh year andit's the year for me of change.
I need to make major changes this yearand I have my plans of what I want to do
(17:13):
to change my, circumstances in every way.
and really focus on myselfand what I need to do for me.
And do you think friendship changesare going to happen along with that?
Yeah.
Like, do you reckon that'sa reflection of that?
Absolutely.
So when they say the seven years, it'slike, yep, because you grow, you change,
you adjust, your friendships change.
Yeah, I agree.
Yeah.
I really do.
Every time I think of thisepisode, I was thinking of one
(17:34):
friendship change that happened.
And like, the person, therewas no argument, the person
just stopped speaking to me.
Yeah.
And like, when I mean stop speakingto me, I mean like cold turkey.
Like, saw this person.
Like the type of person thatyou catch up for your birthday.
Like, you know, when you like,you get older and you go to dinner
with like a couple of people.
This was like a, that person.
And now I'll see that person quiteoften at a local shopping center.
(17:58):
And they'll just completely ignore me.
I was like, okay, we cango our separate ways.
Oh hey!
We can go our separate ways, But I waslike, I'm still going to say hi to you.
The person completely ignored me.
that's terrible.
But do you know what,I did that to someone
Really?
Well then you can't complain.
Alright,
alright, I want to give you the scenario.
Because what if other peoplethink, okay, this happened to me.
(18:19):
Alright, so, this is a person Iwas friends with for a really long
time, something happened in theirlives and then I reached out.
I don't know if it was like nostalgiaor like genuinely like, hey.
I think I'm at a differentpoint in my life now.
I'm like, Oh, do you want to catch up?
the person never responded, which is fine.
I get that.
Like at the end of the day, Iwas a person that sort of cut
off the friendship initially.
(18:40):
So I completely understand,I am not your person.
That's okay.
But then I saw them
walked right past him andavoided them because I was like.
What do I do now?
you haven't responded to me.
So what do you do with that when awkward
encounters?
That's
That situation I can understand.
Because they didn't respond, I was like,clearly you don't want me in your life.
(19:02):
Yeah, that's right.
Which is absolutely fine, but then Idon't feel like it's appropriate for
me to then stop you and be like, Hey!
No, because then you look like a
But also, like, should I have, waved?
Should I have just sort ofdone a polite, like, hey?
But even that I felt uncomfortable,because I was like, You
don't, you're not interested.
So why do I have to pretend that,you know, but it was really close.
(19:22):
Like, I mean, not at a shoppingcenter, like in a hallway.
Oh, wow.
That's really awkward.
It was like he had my child with me.
I was talking to her and I lookedaway and just kept talking to her
because I was so uncomfortable.
I was caught off guard.
I didn't anticipate seeing this person.
It was really awkward.
Yeah, I see.
(19:43):
That's
where I feel
I should have waved or done a polite nod.
Maybe not waved.
No, I would have justsaid hi and keep walking.
Yeah, I got really thrown.
Look, I say that, I probably, I may nothave, but I do think in those situations,
even though it is so awkward, sometimesyou've got to be the bigger person,
I didn't know how to handle it.
(20:03):
What do you do when you run into someonewho it's not ended well and it's awkward.
Do you still feel like you have to sayhi, even if it's been like if you've known
this person for ages, what do you think?
I honestly think.
You can't pre plan those things.
Yeah, you just gotta gowith it in the moment.
go with it in the moment.
if that person looks at you and sayshello, you're gonna say hi back.
(20:26):
if they stop and wanna actually talkto you, depending on the scenario,
you're either gonna be like, okay, andyou'll talk about it, or you're gonna
be like, honestly, I'm not interested.
Good to see you, bye.
Yeah.
It depends on where you'reat with it, I think.
have you had anything like that before?
Absolutely.
Yeah.
And It came as more, especially likea recent situation happened with that.
(20:48):
recently, okay.
Was it the same, like hallway closeness?
Or was it more like a bit further?
Like head to
head, like right in front of each other.
How do you, wait, so you couldn'tavoid the person then, really?
No, because I almost got cornered
Oh, wow.
that's a bit, okay,
Okay, that's,
that's like beyond,that's like the opposite.
I don't care how you're feeling.
You are going to say hi to me.
Like, that's what that feels like.
The person didn't want to say hi to me.
(21:10):
Oh.
They wanted to make itclear that they were there.
Oh, that's, that's
I went to say hello to them.
Yeah.
see how they are.
And I just got completely,
like,
barred.
But they're putting you in aposition where they get the
opportunity to reject you.
Intentionally.
Intentionally, yeah.
Because there is a sense of rejectionthat comes with friendship changes.
I think that's somethingwe don't think about.
even with, another situationthat was a huge situation in my
(21:31):
life, I do see this person, thisfamily member at multiple family
member's friend?
No, it's family member.
that's hard.
I see this person, at familyfunctions and events all the time
and,
not all the time.
at least once every coupleof years and I'm faced with
that and I have to just wave.
What's the situation?
(21:51):
I literally just
strangers
completely pretend they don't exist.
Like me and the girlat the shopping center.
exactly.
We
I'm like, okay, well if that'swhere we're at, that's fine.
And that's
that's just how it is.
do I want it to be like that?
Not necessarily, butdo I feel like, You can
change it.
no, not even that.
do I feel like thatperson deserves Oh, okay.
(22:15):
Absolutely not.
So there's a lot that's happened there.
A lot.
That's a heavy one.
Yeah, that's not like a relationshipthat's changed because you've moved
to a different place or somethingOr you're in a different space.
That's like, there's beena massive falling out.
Yeah.
Those endings are hard too.
the person I saw in the hallway,we had a similar ending.
It was a big falling out.
It wasn't like a chill.
Sort of thing.
(22:35):
Yeah, which makes it even harder
Yes, I know I feel likethere's another friendship that
makes it harder to see that personthe first time you bump into them
Oh, yeah.
what's the code?
what do you do?
What's the polite thing to do?
I suppose it depends on the person andhow you're what space you're in who
you're with as well Like I find if you'rewith a group of people, you're less
likely to say hi to that person versusby yourself and acknowledging them.
(22:57):
Do
you know what I found hard too, when itcomes to DID, that's why I'm laughing.
when it comes to friendships, I hadthis one friendship that changed.
And I was really upset about it because Ididn't actually understand why it changed.
And I was trying really hard.
And then I found out, and thisis another thing that hurts.
When people make less effortwith you than other people.
But then they're your close friends Sothis person met someone else through me
(23:21):
and then wouldn't respond to my messagesBut would respond to this other person
and try to make plans with this otherperson But when I tried to make plans with
this person, they just wouldn't answer.
So I had a situation where I raninto someone and they said, Oh
my God, so and so messaged measking me to catch up for dinner.
I just messaged them twodays before and got no reply.
(23:41):
I feel like that hurts too.
That's the sense of rejection that comeswith changes in friendships as well.
I think the word rejection period.
In any part of your life isreally hard to deal with.
Because it's not just personalpartners that we can feel rejected by.
It's also in friendships.
those changes infriendships can really hurt.
Yep.
All right.
So to end this episode,I've got one question.
Don't look so scared.
(24:02):
Cause I was thinking to myself, she'sgoing to say to end this episode and
then here comes the big question.
What do you think has been differentin our friendship versus the same?
Like, it's been such a long time.
What do you think has been the same?
And what do you think is different?
That's a hard
one.
(24:22):
Yeah, I just want to know what you think.
I think,
Obviously our, our circumstances,where you're at in life, where I'm
at in life, where I'm at in life.
could it be more polar opposite?
In a sense, don't you think?
you know what?
Give me the life area though.
Because when you look at it froma relationship perspective, okay.
(24:44):
Different because I'vegot like, I've got kids.
So yes, that's different.
But I do think in terms of growth in ourthinking, we're actually more similar.
I think we're similar, but I feellike you're far more ahead than
I am because dived deep into.
Oh, I
don't see that yet.
It's interesting.
No, tell me.
see, I admire your thinking and the way,you've worked on yourself so much and
(25:08):
you've learnt about self-development,so much more in depth than what
I have, I would think, but then
I think it's 'causeit's my passion though.
Yeah.
Do you know what I'm saying?
Yeah, yeah.
Probably like, it's.
Not just a thing, it'slike a genuine passion.
it's like hair for you.
Yeah.
That's what it's like for me.
Right.
But I found it.
I'm still like 19.
(25:29):
Yeah.
I'm your version of that
. Yeah.
Right.
Because I found it solate in life, I feel like.
Okay.
But sorry.
No, I forgot all I was saying, what
What do you think's changed,but like maybe for the better?
I think actually our levelof respect for one another.
I
think that's really nice.
Yeah.
Because there's no,there's no guilty feeling.
(25:51):
There's no like, when I see you,it's like I saw you yesterday.
We have really good catchups and really good chats.
and then I might not see youfor another two to four months.
Yeah.
You know, and then, but there's no,
Big expectations.
And
there's no hard feelings around that.
No.
I think that's what makes it so easy tomaintain a friendship with you because
(26:12):
there's no expectations around anything.
I feel like I've had to learn that though.
I don't know if you'vealways noticed that.
I think that's something I knew Ineeded to do, but I feel like I had
to learn that in our friendship,but only because also our friendship
is one of the longest I've had.
Yeah, right.
Does that make sense?
I feel like, the ebb andflow of longer friendships is
something I've learnt with you.
Does that make sense?
That's actually wild, because like, I
(26:32):
didn't even think about that, like,I am your longest friend that has
stayed friends the whole time.
Yeah, I mean, And not
come back and forth.
I think we have one other friend Thatwe've had the longest friendship with
that we both share in that sense.
Yeah,
but I wasn't friends with her fora big portion Whereas with you i've
been that's what i'm saying ages.
(26:53):
So I think with you is wherei've learned the ebb and flow
Yeah,
I think when I had Alessia just becauseof the natural progression of life,
I had to go to my therapist about itbecause I was struggling so much with
the change in our friendship, butalso it was a reflection of our lives
and everything that was happening.
But again, that this is whereI've learned to sort of go, Oh,
like, even with other friends now,I'm like, It'll change as I go.
(27:14):
Like there's another friend that.
I caught up with her recently, felt thesame, but haven't seen her in over a year.
And I'm like, somefriendships are just that way.
and life takes us there, but that'ssomething that I feel like I've learned
in our friendship from it being so long.
Yeah.
But I think That's probably somethingthat has come with the change, but
it's always felt the same for me.
(27:34):
sometimes I've internally felt differentat different stages, like when we've
caught up and stuff, but I feel like,there's a level of just a knowing with
people when you know them that long.
like I've seen you for yourwhole part of your life.
Yeah.
I've actually not missedthings, like in a major sense.
You've
always been there, yeah.
I've always seen
everything, yeah.
So maybe there's a comfort in that.
Yeah.
(27:55):
I don't know.
That's something that I justwanted to end the episode with.
I feel like our friendships alwaysremained very stable, consistent, and
really understanding of one another.
And we've got a lot that we can relatelike lots of life experiences that
are very relatable to one another.
I do think our thinkinghas not gone further apart.
(28:17):
It's actually, if anything,kind of gotten more similar.
Yeah.
I would agree with that.
Maybe not always, definitely not always.
Like I think, like yousaid, it's just natural life
experiences but they have gotten.
it's really interesting.
We caught up the other day.
I was like, wow, it's so funny howin different life areas we can be in
different places, but our thinking orour situations can still be similar
(28:38):
because that's what brought us to theseepisodes that we were talking about.
You making this choice.
And I was like, Oh my God, Ifeel like I'm having the same
challenge in a different area.
I just think that it's relatable
again.
what do you reckon if someone asked youthe best advice to maintain a friendship?
For as long as we have whatdo you think you would say?
I think I would just say Communication.
(28:59):
Yeah
Like
We've had the funniest fights,like when we were younger, No,
but that's what I'm saying,
We have, I remember actuallypiffing a sandwich at your head.
Do you remember that?
I was so angry at you andI threw my sandwich at you.
That's so funny.
We've
come back from a lot.
(29:20):
We have.
I keep thinking about how youcalled me a bridezilla and I was
like, okay, I've got to call him.
you're like, I can'ttalk to you right now.
Did I really?
Yeah.
I called
you a bridezilla?
See, I don't even remember.
But it
I didn't expect you to be this bridezilla.
And I was like, I'm so, butyou know what it was, we were
texting and I felt like texting.
Nah, I was like, no, we needto have a proper conversation
(29:40):
because texting is so hard.
I think that's where youtalk about understanding.
Cause I was like, Oh no, I can seewhy you would look at that and like
maybe full pressure expectation.
I think it didn't match my tone ofvoice, like what was actually happening.
That's why I was like, I'lltry and call you, but sometimes
the call can be invasive too.
Cause you think of this person'strying to start an argument or like,
you don't want to answerand deal with that.
(30:01):
I know what you mean.
Yeah.
Totally.
I really do think communicationis a big part of, holding a good
friendship, and I think respect as well.
Yeah.
and understanding, which I guess tiesinto communication, like understanding
your friend and their personality Yes.
And their humour, and what type ofperson they are in general, because
(30:23):
I've got lots of friends that actuallymost of my friends are actually
quite big, strong personalities,
you
know, and I am too,
you know,
you are as well.
and you know, I just think if youunderstand that person and their way of
thinking, you can be yourself as well.
I think that's a huge one in afriendship, really being able to
(30:44):
be yourself and not pretending.
To sugarcoat things like I'mjust straight up black and white.
I mean, hello . I'm wearing blackand white, but I've never found,
just like my personality, I was
I've never found that like a bad thing.
I've never found you.
Like I know you say that you'revery like upfront and direct.
some people hate it.
Some people can't deal with that.
(31:04):
I think
I'm used to it though.
'cause that's what my family were like.
But that's the thing.
I never saw
that directness as insulting.
But some people do.
You'd be like,
why are you wearing this?
And I'd be like, oh, no.
do you know what I'm saying?
we'd be like, oh, okay, all right.
I should probably change them.
No, but like, yeah.
That's, yeah, like, that'spart of my personality.
(31:27):
And my friends love me for that,And I feel like when you're not
possibly in the right Relationship.
Or friendship.
Or whatever it is.
It's constantly misinterpreted.
It's
misinterpreted, And then,that's something that
Because they don't know you.
You know?
Yeah.
I've got friends like that.
And they take it the wrong
way.
And it's like, you're just soused to being yourself and what
(31:50):
you know with your friends.
the way you would speak aboutthings and, the comments you
would make in a joking manner.
But that other person sees it as
Oh my god,
I can't believe you just said that.
what did I say?
You know?
Yeah, I do.
No, I do.
Because also I think there arecertain friends for certain things.
Yes.
Like certain friendshipsare for certain things.
(32:12):
you have your friends that you go outwith or I mean, you're lucky I think
if you get everything from a couple offriends, but I do think like, especially
when I look at friendships, I seesome that I handle them differently.
I've got different boundarieswith different friends.
Different, awareness of what thosefriendships can offer and what they can't.
Absolutely.
You know what I'm saying?
Like, if you get the person that
takes forever to reply, I'm like,I know that that's the person.
(32:32):
Sometimes I'm that person, and the otherperson on the other end knows that.
it depends, on the level ofexpectation versus what that
person can actually offer.
Absolutely.
And I think
over time, when you know someone longenough, you know what you're in for, you
know what that person means when they, andthat's the thing with the communication.
I don't know if it's necessarily howwe communicate so much as it is that we
(32:52):
are so used to certain things and theway that we are, that we also understand
the underlying things that we don't say.
Does that make sense?
So, communication is also body language ifyou come in and you're stressed, you don't
need to tell me that you're stressed.
I'll be like, what's going on?
You can
tell, yeah.
Whereas some friends,might not recognize that.
I just feel like, over time,as you get to know someone the
(33:13):
communication is more than just verbal.
Yeah, I agree with that.
Yeah.
I agree with that.
And I think that's somethingI really value in friendships.
And all my friends Know me so well.
Yeah, that's good.
know, that's
because you can show up as yourselfto you're good at I think that
that's what I mean.
Like with your friendsyou have to be yourself
(33:33):
Yeah,
you know, otherwise thosepeople aren't for you.
you can't put on a show and pretendhow long are those friendships gonna
last and are they real friendships?
Yeah if you don't feelyou can be yourself,
that's right Yeah, that's
another learning curve I've had too
you don't want that.
You don't want to have
but also I think that reflects when afriendship ends, like if you guys cannot
get along, or you kind of like, youknow, after a year it's like, Oh, you're
(33:55):
really just not jelling in the same way.
maybe it is time for that ebb and thenthe flow to sort of let it go its way.
Maybe that's another sign to if like.
If a friendship is notworking for you anymore.
Yeah.
we'll keep you posted.
If we
don't do the Greece episode,we're probably not friends.
(34:16):
I don't think so.
Hopefully, that'd be great.
I think we'll definitely
do an up, we'll do, we'lldo an update either way.
have
to go.
Yeah, pressure's on.
It's on YouTube now,you can't get rid of it.
we'll do an update on that too,I really enjoyed having you here.
Thank you.
Same, you're welcome.
Cause it's been nice.
I loved it.
Yeah, it's good, isn't
it?
Maybe we could do like a more recurrent.
Thank you so much forlistening to this episode.
(34:37):
I'll catch you on the next one.
Bye!
Hi there.
My name is Giulia, and welcome tothe Self-Development Collective.
Here we explore personal developmentin a way that honors all parts of
ourselves, including the tricky parts.
I share genuine stories andreflections mixed with ideas from
psychotherapy and self-developmentto help us figure out how to live
more authentically and build deeperconnections with ourselves and others.
(00:21):
I am so excited to have you here.
Let's get into this episode.
I'm really excited.
This is what Giulia is so excited about.
She's like, I can't wait.
excited to have someone to talk tobecause the episodes are usually just me.
this is such a lovely vibe.
Okay.
Let's talk about friendships becausethis is a great space for us to talk
about because not only can we reflecton the friendships that we've had,
(00:44):
like in our own lives, but also ourfriendship has changed over time this
feels like the same conversations the waywe always have them, but we have ebbed
and flowed over like, what, 25 years,do you know what I really want to make
a distinction between in this episode?
The friendships that change versusthe friendships that end, Dim
(01:04):
and I went to the same school.
We had a group of friends.
We've not stayed in contact with everyone.
Why do you reckon that is?
I think it's personalities to be honest.
Yep.
And as you mature and you changeand you grow from high school,
you know, into a full blownadult, I think life experiences.
(01:26):
Yep.
I think shape and change people.
I think, your emotionalconnection to that person.
Yeah.
And understanding of that person andwhat they're going through in their life.
Your empathy as well.
I think empathy is a really big one.
Oh yeah?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I do, personally.
what do you mean?
(01:46):
What I mean is like, obviously,you know, you lost your brother.
You lost your Your father.
Yeah.
You know, not physically . I was like,
I clarify that, that I don't see,he's not in my life, but he Yeah.
He's not in your, hehasn't passed away alive.
Just in case.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Just in case.
Yeah.
You know, and your relationshipsand your family dynamics, I think,
(02:07):
you know, is something that I'vealways like, I know that it's
something that you've struggled with
Yeah.
In
your life.
I can relate to that with my familydynamics and how I felt in my life.
I'm not saying my family are bad peopleor anything like that whatsoever, you
(02:27):
know, but I feel like I've had challenges,in my family and extended family
because of the way I grew up, you know?
And I think that's something thatstill to today still is very.
Relatable to each other, sowe have that common ground.
I think that's why your friendships,like, you stay friends with some
people and some people you don't.
Yeah, I definitely think we hadan experience, and again, I don't
(02:50):
think it's like intentional.
don't think it's intentional.
But I do think that we are, like we saidin the previous episode, our thinking
doesn't probably match with What ourfamilies do, and then there's a sense
of isolation that comes with that, asense of loneliness, culturally, I do
think that we had certain expectations,gender expectations, like as in what
work we should have done based purelyon our gender, like, expectations
(03:11):
around the way we needed to be.
I just think, we definitelyshared that for sure.
I think it's the upbringing
Yeah.
I think it's the upbringingand expectations on.
Us.
That we have in common.
You know?
Yeah.
And other people, like, I can think ofa fair few other people that were in our
group of friends, and extended friends.
(03:34):
I see what you're saying.
Yes, but I do see what you're sayingin that our home experience was
more similar than in comparisonto the other people in our group.
Yeah, and our values andall that sort of stuff.
I think it's all those thingsthat, keep you friends with certain
people and not friends with others.
(03:55):
Yeah.
effort as well.
Yeah, Effort to an extent I think.
Yeah, because I feel likewe're balanced in that sense.
We kind of, you know,we do make an effort.
I think in, in a good way, ina way that feels right for us.
But I do think that part can get tricky.
I reckon friendships on myend, in terms of my life, have
(04:15):
changed because of the effort.
There's friendships that changeover like time, timelines.
I feel like that's something we'veexperienced for example, I might've seen
you less when you moved a job becauseyou found different friends and went
into that world and I was in anotherworld and I was always in a relationship.
So that kind of took me another way.
but then I feel like differenttimelines is one thing that changes
(04:35):
friendships, like where you're at.
effort is another one.
but changing circumstances and Ifind that too, depending on where the
other person's at, I think changingcircumstances is one of the biggest
things that's changed a friendship for me.
Yeah, I would agree with that.
It's
not necessarily a big falling out.
No,
no.
It's like I've done something,achieved something, met someone,
(04:56):
whatever, gone a certain way and theother person's struggled with that.
I feel like maybe, but not beingable to articulate it, I think that's
something that I'm recognizing.
what do you reckon?
Like if you think about any friendship,one that's maybe not ended necessarily
badly, but it's, there's something therethat's not like, it's not like a, for
(05:17):
example, if we didn't see each other for acouple of months, it's not like we think,
Oh, did I do something we don't have that,but you know, you have that friendship.
You're like, I'm not a hundredpercent sure why that ended.
Like something's not right there.
Do you have that?
I can think of one.
Yeah, absolutely.
Why do you
when you think about it?
that's what I mean.
I think that's a bit confusing,
I think, um, oh, I don't know.
(05:39):
That's hard, isn't it?
It is a hard one.
I reckon that's the hardest ending.
That's what I'm saying.
When friendships change, the endingsthat are not clear, but you know
something doesn't feel right.
You're like, something bothered them.
Something happened there that upset them.
Maybe, like, not somethingthat was intentional.
Look, I think, with onefriendship particularly, the
way that ended was unexpected.
(06:00):
Yeah.
and I think, I feel like I've alwaysbeen the kind of person to back down
and just accept whatever it is becauseI don't want to lose the friendship,
even though I think I could beright in the situation, I don't want
to lose the friendship, so I just
play truth,
but with this particular situation,I think it was, like, I explained
(06:23):
myself well enough, Yeah.
And I think that the otherperson didn't accept that.
Oh, so you explained it andthe person was like, no.
they were just like, I don't agree.
I don't think that's okay.
Oh.
And I think it just didn't meetthat person's expectations.
My reasoning as to why Icouldn't attend an event.
(06:48):
Oh, it was about an event.
clear, this is why I'm upset with you.
Yeah.
that person was really upset with me aboutan event that I didn't attend, even though
I explained why I wasn't going to attend.
And for me that was like, Iknew in that moment I was like,
well, tough I'm not coming.
(07:09):
interesting though?
then that person distancedthemselves from me.
Gave me the cold shoulder.
So I was like, well, I'm not goingto accept that behavior because
I've done nothing really wrong.
Yes, I understand I didn't come toyour event But I also don't think that
you need to stop being friends with mebecause I didn't come to your event.
How
long were you friends for?
(07:30):
we were friends for awhile, a fair few years.
Like, multiple, multiple years.
Probably a good eight, I would say.
Oh,
wow.
At least.
Yeah, okay, so it wasn'tlike a two years, like,
sort of, new ish friend.
no, no, no.
It was a very good friend.
Oh,
wow.
A very good friend, you know.
when it ended, I was abit, I was disappointed.
But in the same breath, like, itwas something, also, I feel like
the friendship ran its course.
(07:51):
That person's life also went into adifferent direction with children and
marriage and all of that sort of stuff.
And I think we were just ondifferent paths and at crossroads,
yeah, at crossroads, yeah,I think the values changed.
it was just like, well, I'm not backingdown because I know I did nothing wrong.
That person also is quitea stubborn personality too.
(08:15):
And they obviously didn'twant to back down either.
And that was it.
That's it.
At least I suppose you guyshad, a misunderstanding.
This is why it ended.
Like you can say, okay, we grewapart, the values obviously changed
based on the argument we've had.
I think the tricky ones can alsobe the friendships that again, they
change, but they don't necessarily,again, they change with things unsaid.
(08:37):
have you had a change like that whereit's not been a clear argument or It's
sort of they just don't give you much.
I've had that and that's beenreally, that's been tough as well.
That's why I'm curious.
Have you had something like that?
I would say yes.
I would say yes, definitely.
yeah,
I've had
many, I've had manyfriendships like nicely.
(08:58):
It is hard, but I also think, Idon't know, for me, those sort
of friendships that let go of.
friendships that didn'tlast that long anyway.
Ah, so you're saying the ones that endedthat way were probably only transitional
sort of friendships anyway, as theyweren't those long standing ones.
Yeah.
Okay.
I would say, and I'd confidently say,I've got a lot of friends, even though
(09:21):
my friends, or girlfriends predominantly,are all married and they've all got kids
now and everyone's got families now.
So my friendship dynamicshave definitely shifted.
Yeah, you've expanded a lot.
Yeah, absolutely, a lot.
but I would say that I have stillmy, I still have very long term
standing friends from childhood.
Yeah.
I don't think many peoplecan say that either.
(09:42):
No.
I think that speaks volumes of thetype of person you are, you know?
Oh, I agree.
thinking about our friendship,how long it's gone.
Yeah.
Like how much it's I don't know ifit's changed, or for some reason
we've just worked with the changes.
Like, we've changed, but thedynamic hasn't always changed.
I feel like, I
think our friendship has evolved with
(10:02):
life's changes.
Yes, yes.
That's a great way to say it.
Like, it's kind of like, when we'vegone our separate ways, we've gone like,
we're gonna grow a bit, we'll come back.
Yeah, I would agree with that.
Yeah, and then when we come backit's like, oh, okay, I think,
I think because you've alwaysbeen in relationships as well.
Oh, that's hard, yeah.
that's something that, from teenagers,really, from high school, you've
always been in a relationship.
(10:24):
So, we're always friends, but ourfriendship, I guess, has always remained
as, you're in a relationship, I'm single.
You know what I
mean?
Oh, yeah, I supposethat throws time limits.
Because when you're in a relationship,you've obviously got less time.
So I feel like that's
probably what's kept us still friendsfor so long, because I accepted,
I'm making assumptions here, No,I never thought about it this way.
(10:45):
I'm seeing it like that because Ifeel like that's probably a huge,
unclear factor maybe as to how it'sdeveloped to still be friends today.
I am surprised that any friendshipslasted out of my previous relationship
because it was a controlling relationship.
I remember this distinct memory of youtexting me and saying, Hey, you free
(11:07):
to catch up, which was last minute.
And you didn't usually do that.
And I remember being like, Oh,I can't, I'm at so and so's
house, my partner at the time.
And just thinking like.
Oh, like I can't catch up with him, butmore cause I was like, I can't just get
up and go even if I want to, I can't.
And I felt not because I was unsafe, butalso cause I was also there, but also
(11:28):
like, you know, at your partner's house.
But I suppose, yeah, when you have apartner, like when you catch up with
friends, it's, it's, and you're in arelationship, it's not as unorganized.
you can't just all last, like youcan do a last minute, but it depends.
Like I felt like for me.
In that relationship, I reallystruggled to make last minute plans
with you on my end, for me, becauseof what was happening on my end.
(11:50):
Yeah, that made a big
Yeah.
That made a big difference.
That relationship, I feel like, really
Which Sometimes it's that.
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think, you know, on that wholething of last minute plans and being in a
relationship, I think that's, like, not Idon't think that's a healthy thing either,
because you're also your
So, you know, obviously withinreason, you're not going to be doing
(12:12):
it every day, but if every couple ofweeks someone messages being like,
Hey, are you free to go for brunchor grab a coffee or go for a walk
You should be able to do that.
what's the big deal?
Like, you're gonna be gone for acouple of hours and you'll be back.
like you're running away.
You know what
I mean?
I probably should
have.
you did in the end.
(12:33):
Have you found that with other friendsthat have been in relationships?
Just curious.
Yes and no.
Oh, so some yes, some no.
It's kind of varied.
I can't really say that, I shouldsay yes, because all my friends are
in relationships and I'm sure I'veexperienced that at some point where I
might be like, Hey, you're free tonight.
And they're like, no,
yeah.
You know,
do you think,
but I also know who to messageand not message, you know?
(12:58):
So you get a natural gist
Sunday at four o'clock being like, Hey,do you want to go for dinner tonight?
Do you know what I mean?
You've got a husband and twokids, like the answer's no.
Do you know
what though?
If I wasn't tired, I feellike I'd be more likely
to go now.
Than in that previous relationship.
Really?
Yeah.
I
think
that just goes to show thedifference in relationship though.
(13:20):
Yeah, I was Like even with kids.
I was like, Oh, dim messaged.
That was on the Sunday when we caught up.
I was like, Oh, Sundays areusually only because Ryan.
was working Saturdays.
I'm like, Oh, Sundays are family days,but also we don't get to catch up much.
So my husband was like, go, absolutely.
And I was like, yeah, I'm going to go.
Like I'm going to escape.
I think that that's so healthythat your husband turned around
(13:42):
and said to you, ,of course, go.
But isn't that interesting?
You've got that greatrelationship that you can do that.
I think though that it has, when youthink about it too, the relationships
that people are in definitely impactsthe quality of the other relationships.
So I think too, like, yeah, the previousrelationship was a lot different.
And so for me to do that,even without kids would have
(14:02):
been like, what do you mean?
it wouldn't have been as well taken.
I think that was something that.
Impacted my relationships too.
And I wasn't even aware ofcompletely until I reflect on that.
And then you and I were having thisconversation, but I just think,
yeah, friendship changes are hard.
Their attachment changes too, especiallywhen you're really close with that person.
(14:23):
Absolutely.
Is there
one friend that you stillthink about that you miss?
You're like, I wish thatI could see that person.
it's funny, you know, cause like,I think yes, uh, no, not really.
No, not now.
Not now.
Okay.
Because I feel like the friend that I didmiss, I have become friends with again.
you reconnected?
(14:43):
Yeah.
I've reconnected again.
I think it's nice that you'rereconnected though, cause I
feel like, I haven't got many.
I think it's
great that I reconnected with thisfriend, but the friendship, was like
when I caught up with this friend, itwas like, I saw him yesterday, you know?
And
that's so good.
Yeah, it is really good.
And you know, we're bothchanged and evolved and.
Grown I'm a different person now.
(15:04):
He's a different person now as well.
You know, so I thinklike that reconnecting,
like it was meant to be.
Because we had, I spokefor about eight years.
Eight years.
a lot had happened in eight years.
Wow.
So I think it was really good havingto be able to be friends with him
again and have him back in your life.
(15:26):
I see what you're saying.
Yeah.
this is something I reckon maybewe can reflect on together.
My therapist said that relationshipschange every five to seven years.
Do you reckon that's true?
I think your whole life does.
Oh, I remember you saying that to me.
They're like life cycles.
is it six years?
What's the seven?
Oh, so it's seven year cycle.
(15:48):
where's that from?
Is that like a, like acultural thing or like a?
No, I think
it's like a spiritual,universal, sort of a thing.
Yeah.
Okay.
They say every sevenyears, your life changes.
And from my experience,every seven to eight.
I've had huge life changes.
Oh my god, that
would make so much sense.
I have, seriously.
(16:08):
So 2018, cause this will be, this yearwill be 7 years since Pat's passed.
And I feel like, out of all the years,this is the year that things have really,
like, things have changed, but theinternal changes have really started.
Is the internal changes.
Yeah, it was kind of like itreally was an end of a cycle.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I did feel that.
Do you feel that now?
(16:29):
A hundred percent.
Yeah, okay.
I feel like last year.
was a really bad yet good year in a way.
I literally had like six monthswhere it was, six months of hard
experiences that made it very difficult.
(16:50):
And then the last six months were.
Also really hard, but on apositive flip side and dealing and
balancing that hard and good times.
But that's growth, I reckon.
this year is like a fresh year andit's the year for me of change.
I need to make major changes this yearand I have my plans of what I want to do
(17:13):
to change my, circumstances in every way.
and really focus on myselfand what I need to do for me.
And do you think friendship changesare going to happen along with that?
Yeah.
Like, do you reckon that'sa reflection of that?
Absolutely.
So when they say the seven years, it'slike, yep, because you grow, you change,
you adjust, your friendships change.
Yeah, I agree.
Yeah.
I really do.
Every time I think of thisepisode, I was thinking of one
(17:34):
friendship change that happened.
And like, the person, therewas no argument, the person
just stopped speaking to me.
Yeah.
And like, when I mean stop speakingto me, I mean like cold turkey.
Like, saw this person.
Like the type of person thatyou catch up for your birthday.
Like, you know, when you like,you get older and you go to dinner
with like a couple of people.
This was like a, that person.
And now I'll see that person quiteoften at a local shopping center.
(17:58):
And they'll just completely ignore me.
I was like, okay, we cango our separate ways.
Oh hey!
We can go our separate ways, But I waslike, I'm still going to say hi to you.
The person completely ignored me.
that's terrible.
But do you know what,I did that to someone
Really?
Well then you can't complain.
Alright,
alright, I want to give you the scenario.
Because what if other peoplethink, okay, this happened to me.
(18:19):
Alright, so, this is a person Iwas friends with for a really long
time, something happened in theirlives and then I reached out.
I don't know if it was like nostalgiaor like genuinely like, hey.
I think I'm at a differentpoint in my life now.
I'm like, Oh, do you want to catch up?
the person never responded, which is fine.
I get that.
Like at the end of the day, Iwas a person that sort of cut
off the friendship initially.
(18:40):
So I completely understand,I am not your person.
That's okay.
But then I saw them
walked right past him andavoided them because I was like.
What do I do now?
you haven't responded to me.
So what do you do with that when awkward
encounters?
That's
That situation I can understand.
Because they didn't respond, I was like,clearly you don't want me in your life.
(19:02):
Yeah, that's right.
Which is absolutely fine, but then Idon't feel like it's appropriate for
me to then stop you and be like, Hey!
No, because then you look like a
But also, like, should I have, waved?
Should I have just sort ofdone a polite, like, hey?
But even that I felt uncomfortable,because I was like, You
don't, you're not interested.
So why do I have to pretend that,you know, but it was really close.
(19:22):
Like, I mean, not at a shoppingcenter, like in a hallway.
Oh, wow.
That's really awkward.
It was like he had my child with me.
I was talking to her and I lookedaway and just kept talking to her
because I was so uncomfortable.
I was caught off guard.
I didn't anticipate seeing this person.
It was really awkward.
Yeah, I see.
(19:43):
That's
where I feel
I should have waved or done a polite nod.
Maybe not waved.
No, I would have justsaid hi and keep walking.
Yeah, I got really thrown.
Look, I say that, I probably, I may nothave, but I do think in those situations,
even though it is so awkward, sometimesyou've got to be the bigger person,
I didn't know how to handle it.
(20:03):
What do you do when you run into someonewho it's not ended well and it's awkward.
Do you still feel like you have to sayhi, even if it's been like if you've known
this person for ages, what do you think?
I honestly think.
You can't pre plan those things.
Yeah, you just gotta gowith it in the moment.
go with it in the moment.
if that person looks at you and sayshello, you're gonna say hi back.
(20:26):
if they stop and wanna actually talkto you, depending on the scenario,
you're either gonna be like, okay, andyou'll talk about it, or you're gonna
be like, honestly, I'm not interested.
Good to see you, bye.
Yeah.
It depends on where you'reat with it, I think.
have you had anything like that before?
Absolutely.
Yeah.
And It came as more, especially likea recent situation happened with that.
(20:48):
recently, okay.
Was it the same, like hallway closeness?
Or was it more like a bit further?
Like head to
head, like right in front of each other.
How do you, wait, so you couldn'tavoid the person then, really?
No, because I almost got cornered
Oh, wow.
that's a bit, okay,
Okay, that's,
that's like beyond,that's like the opposite.
I don't care how you're feeling.
You are going to say hi to me.
Like, that's what that feels like.
The person didn't want to say hi to me.
(21:10):
Oh.
They wanted to make itclear that they were there.
Oh, that's, that's
I went to say hello to them.
Yeah.
see how they are.
And I just got completely,
like,
barred.
But they're putting you in aposition where they get the
opportunity to reject you.
Intentionally.
Intentionally, yeah.
Because there is a sense of rejectionthat comes with friendship changes.
I think that's somethingwe don't think about.
even with, another situationthat was a huge situation in my
(21:31):
life, I do see this person, thisfamily member at multiple family
member's friend?
No, it's family member.
that's hard.
I see this person, at familyfunctions and events all the time
and,
not all the time.
at least once every coupleof years and I'm faced with
that and I have to just wave.
What's the situation?
(21:51):
I literally just
strangers
completely pretend they don't exist.
Like me and the girlat the shopping center.
exactly.
We
I'm like, okay, well if that'swhere we're at, that's fine.
And that's
that's just how it is.
do I want it to be like that?
Not necessarily, butdo I feel like, You can
change it.
no, not even that.
do I feel like thatperson deserves Oh, okay.
(22:15):
Absolutely not.
So there's a lot that's happened there.
A lot.
That's a heavy one.
Yeah, that's not like a relationshipthat's changed because you've moved
to a different place or somethingOr you're in a different space.
That's like, there's beena massive falling out.
Yeah.
Those endings are hard too.
the person I saw in the hallway,we had a similar ending.
It was a big falling out.
It wasn't like a chill.
Sort of thing.
(22:35):
Yeah, which makes it even harder
Yes, I know I feel likethere's another friendship that
makes it harder to see that personthe first time you bump into them
Oh, yeah.
what's the code?
what do you do?
What's the polite thing to do?
I suppose it depends on the person andhow you're what space you're in who
you're with as well Like I find if you'rewith a group of people, you're less
likely to say hi to that person versusby yourself and acknowledging them.
(22:57):
Do
you know what I found hard too, when itcomes to DID, that's why I'm laughing.
when it comes to friendships, I hadthis one friendship that changed.
And I was really upset about it because Ididn't actually understand why it changed.
And I was trying really hard.
And then I found out, and thisis another thing that hurts.
When people make less effortwith you than other people.
But then they're your close friends Sothis person met someone else through me
(23:21):
and then wouldn't respond to my messagesBut would respond to this other person
and try to make plans with this otherperson But when I tried to make plans with
this person, they just wouldn't answer.
So I had a situation where I raninto someone and they said, Oh
my God, so and so messaged measking me to catch up for dinner.
I just messaged them twodays before and got no reply.
(23:41):
I feel like that hurts too.
That's the sense of rejection that comeswith changes in friendships as well.
I think the word rejection period.
In any part of your life isreally hard to deal with.
Because it's not just personalpartners that we can feel rejected by.
It's also in friendships.
those changes infriendships can really hurt.
Yep.
All right.
So to end this episode,I've got one question.
Don't look so scared.
(24:02):
Cause I was thinking to myself, she'sgoing to say to end this episode and
then here comes the big question.
What do you think has been differentin our friendship versus the same?
Like, it's been such a long time.
What do you think has been the same?
And what do you think is different?
That's a hard
one.
(24:22):
Yeah, I just want to know what you think.
I think,
Obviously our, our circumstances,where you're at in life, where I'm
at in life, where I'm at in life.
could it be more polar opposite?
In a sense, don't you think?
you know what?
Give me the life area though.
Because when you look at it froma relationship perspective, okay.
(24:44):
Different because I'vegot like, I've got kids.
So yes, that's different.
But I do think in terms of growth in ourthinking, we're actually more similar.
I think we're similar, but I feellike you're far more ahead than
I am because dived deep into.
Oh, I
don't see that yet.
It's interesting.
No, tell me.
see, I admire your thinking and the way,you've worked on yourself so much and
(25:08):
you've learnt about self-development,so much more in depth than what
I have, I would think, but then
I think it's 'causeit's my passion though.
Yeah.
Do you know what I'm saying?
Yeah, yeah.
Probably like, it's.
Not just a thing, it'slike a genuine passion.
it's like hair for you.
Yeah.
That's what it's like for me.
Right.
But I found it.
I'm still like 19.
(25:29):
Yeah.
I'm your version of that
. Yeah.
Right.
Because I found it solate in life, I feel like.
Okay.
But sorry.
No, I forgot all I was saying, what
What do you think's changed,but like maybe for the better?
I think actually our levelof respect for one another.
I
think that's really nice.
Yeah.
Because there's no,there's no guilty feeling.
(25:51):
There's no like, when I see you,it's like I saw you yesterday.
We have really good catchups and really good chats.
and then I might not see youfor another two to four months.
Yeah.
You know, and then, but there's no,
Big expectations.
And
there's no hard feelings around that.
No.
I think that's what makes it so easy tomaintain a friendship with you because
(26:12):
there's no expectations around anything.
I feel like I've had to learn that though.
I don't know if you'vealways noticed that.
I think that's something I knew Ineeded to do, but I feel like I had
to learn that in our friendship,but only because also our friendship
is one of the longest I've had.
Yeah, right.
Does that make sense?
I feel like, the ebb andflow of longer friendships is
something I've learnt with you.
Does that make sense?
That's actually wild, because like, I
(26:32):
didn't even think about that, like,I am your longest friend that has
stayed friends the whole time.
Yeah, I mean, And not
come back and forth.
I think we have one other friend Thatwe've had the longest friendship with
that we both share in that sense.
Yeah,
but I wasn't friends with her fora big portion Whereas with you i've
been that's what i'm saying ages.
(26:53):
So I think with you is wherei've learned the ebb and flow
Yeah,
I think when I had Alessia just becauseof the natural progression of life,
I had to go to my therapist about itbecause I was struggling so much with
the change in our friendship, butalso it was a reflection of our lives
and everything that was happening.
But again, that this is whereI've learned to sort of go, Oh,
like, even with other friends now,I'm like, It'll change as I go.
(27:14):
Like there's another friend that.
I caught up with her recently, felt thesame, but haven't seen her in over a year.
And I'm like, somefriendships are just that way.
and life takes us there, but that'ssomething that I feel like I've learned
in our friendship from it being so long.
Yeah.
But I think That's probably somethingthat has come with the change, but
it's always felt the same for me.
(27:34):
sometimes I've internally felt differentat different stages, like when we've
caught up and stuff, but I feel like,there's a level of just a knowing with
people when you know them that long.
like I've seen you for yourwhole part of your life.
Yeah.
I've actually not missedthings, like in a major sense.
You've
always been there, yeah.
I've always seen
everything, yeah.
So maybe there's a comfort in that.
Yeah.
(27:55):
I don't know.
That's something that I justwanted to end the episode with.
I feel like our friendships alwaysremained very stable, consistent, and
really understanding of one another.
And we've got a lot that we can relatelike lots of life experiences that
are very relatable to one another.
I do think our thinkinghas not gone further apart.
(28:17):
It's actually, if anything,kind of gotten more similar.
Yeah.
I would agree with that.
Maybe not always, definitely not always.
Like I think, like yousaid, it's just natural life
experiences but they have gotten.
it's really interesting.
We caught up the other day.
I was like, wow, it's so funny howin different life areas we can be in
different places, but our thinking orour situations can still be similar
(28:38):
because that's what brought us to theseepisodes that we were talking about.
You making this choice.
And I was like, Oh my God, Ifeel like I'm having the same
challenge in a different area.
I just think that it's relatable
again.
what do you reckon if someone asked youthe best advice to maintain a friendship?
For as long as we have whatdo you think you would say?
I think I would just say Communication.
(28:59):
Yeah
Like
We've had the funniest fights,like when we were younger, No,
but that's what I'm saying,
We have, I remember actuallypiffing a sandwich at your head.
Do you remember that?
I was so angry at you andI threw my sandwich at you.
That's so funny.
We've
come back from a lot.
(29:20):
We have.
I keep thinking about how youcalled me a bridezilla and I was
like, okay, I've got to call him.
you're like, I can'ttalk to you right now.
Did I really?
Yeah.
I called
you a bridezilla?
See, I don't even remember.
But it
I didn't expect you to be this bridezilla.
And I was like, I'm so, butyou know what it was, we were
texting and I felt like texting.
Nah, I was like, no, we needto have a proper conversation
(29:40):
because texting is so hard.
I think that's where youtalk about understanding.
Cause I was like, Oh no, I can seewhy you would look at that and like
maybe full pressure expectation.
I think it didn't match my tone ofvoice, like what was actually happening.
That's why I was like, I'lltry and call you, but sometimes
the call can be invasive too.
Cause you think of this person'strying to start an argument or like,
you don't want to answerand deal with that.
(30:01):
I know what you mean.
Yeah.
Totally.
I really do think communicationis a big part of, holding a good
friendship, and I think respect as well.
Yeah.
and understanding, which I guess tiesinto communication, like understanding
your friend and their personality Yes.
And their humour, and what type ofperson they are in general, because
(30:23):
I've got lots of friends that actuallymost of my friends are actually
quite big, strong personalities,
you
know, and I am too,
you know,
you are as well.
and you know, I just think if youunderstand that person and their way of
thinking, you can be yourself as well.
I think that's a huge one in afriendship, really being able to
(30:44):
be yourself and not pretending.
To sugarcoat things like I'mjust straight up black and white.
I mean, hello . I'm wearing blackand white, but I've never found,
just like my personality, I was
I've never found that like a bad thing.
I've never found you.
Like I know you say that you'revery like upfront and direct.
some people hate it.
Some people can't deal with that.
(31:04):
I think
I'm used to it though.
'cause that's what my family were like.
But that's the thing.
I never saw
that directness as insulting.
But some people do.
You'd be like,
why are you wearing this?
And I'd be like, oh, no.
do you know what I'm saying?
we'd be like, oh, okay, all right.
I should probably change them.
No, but like, yeah.
That's, yeah, like, that'spart of my personality.
(31:27):
And my friends love me for that,And I feel like when you're not
possibly in the right Relationship.
Or friendship.
Or whatever it is.
It's constantly misinterpreted.
It's
misinterpreted, And then,that's something that
Because they don't know you.
You know?
Yeah.
I've got friends like that.
And they take it the wrong
way.
And it's like, you're just soused to being yourself and what
(31:50):
you know with your friends.
the way you would speak aboutthings and, the comments you
would make in a joking manner.
But that other person sees it as
Oh my god,
I can't believe you just said that.
what did I say?
You know?
Yeah, I do.
No, I do.
Because also I think there arecertain friends for certain things.
Yes.
Like certain friendshipsare for certain things.
(32:12):
you have your friends that you go outwith or I mean, you're lucky I think
if you get everything from a couple offriends, but I do think like, especially
when I look at friendships, I seesome that I handle them differently.
I've got different boundarieswith different friends.
Different, awareness of what thosefriendships can offer and what they can't.
Absolutely.
You know what I'm saying?
Like, if you get the person that
takes forever to reply, I'm like,I know that that's the person.
(32:32):
Sometimes I'm that person, and the otherperson on the other end knows that.
it depends, on the level ofexpectation versus what that
person can actually offer.
Absolutely.
And I think
over time, when you know someone longenough, you know what you're in for, you
know what that person means when they, andthat's the thing with the communication.
I don't know if it's necessarily howwe communicate so much as it is that we
(32:52):
are so used to certain things and theway that we are, that we also understand
the underlying things that we don't say.
Does that make sense?
So, communication is also body language ifyou come in and you're stressed, you don't
need to tell me that you're stressed.
I'll be like, what's going on?
You can
tell, yeah.
Whereas some friends,might not recognize that.
I just feel like, over time,as you get to know someone the
(33:13):
communication is more than just verbal.
Yeah, I agree with that.
Yeah.
I agree with that.
And I think that's somethingI really value in friendships.
And all my friends Know me so well.
Yeah, that's good.
know, that's
because you can show up as yourselfto you're good at I think that
that's what I mean.
Like with your friendsyou have to be yourself
(33:33):
Yeah,
you know, otherwise thosepeople aren't for you.
you can't put on a show and pretendhow long are those friendships gonna
last and are they real friendships?
Yeah if you don't feelyou can be yourself,
that's right Yeah, that's
another learning curve I've had too
you don't want that.
You don't want to have
but also I think that reflects when afriendship ends, like if you guys cannot
get along, or you kind of like, youknow, after a year it's like, Oh, you're
(33:55):
really just not jelling in the same way.
maybe it is time for that ebb and thenthe flow to sort of let it go its way.
Maybe that's another sign to if like.
If a friendship is notworking for you anymore.
Yeah.
we'll keep you posted.
If we
don't do the Greece episode,we're probably not friends.
(34:16):
I don't think so.
Hopefully, that'd be great.
I think we'll definitely
do an up, we'll do, we'lldo an update either way.
have
to go.
Yeah, pressure's on.
It's on YouTube now,you can't get rid of it.
we'll do an update on that too,I really enjoyed having you here.
Thank you.
Same, you're welcome.
Cause it's been nice.
I loved it.
Yeah, it's good, isn't
it?
Maybe we could do like a more recurrent.
Thank you so much forlistening to this episode.
(34:37):
I'll catch you on the next one.
Bye!
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