The Covert Narcissism Podcast

In this part one of two conversation, Renee Swanson and Jerry Wise delve into the complexities of narcissism and the concept of self-differentiation. Jerry shares his extensive experience in family systems therapy and explains how self-differentiation allows individuals to grow into their true selves without absorbing the toxicity of others. They discuss the loss of self often experienced by those raised in narcissistic families, t...

What happens when the fairy tale was never a fairy tale to begin with?

In this powerful episode, Renee Swanson is joined by Andrea, the candid and courageous voice behind the hit podcast How Not to Suck at Divorce. Andrea doesn’t just share her story—she lays it all out. The red flags she ignored. The justifications she clung to. The slow unraveling of her identity. The physical collapse that finally forced her to confront the trut...

In this episode, we’re diving into the conversations I wish I could have had with the covert narcissist in my life. The words I rehearsed but never said. The truths I buried for the sake of “keeping the peace.” The sarcasm I bit back. The boundaries I swallowed. All of it. Because sometimes, the only way to make sense of the madness that is covert narcissistic abuse is to talk it out—even if it’s only in your own head.

We’re pullin...

At the end of every episode, I say, “I wish you so much peace on your journey of healing.” But today, I want to pause and really talk about what that journey actually looks like—because healing from covert narcissistic abuse isn’t what most people think.

When I first left, I believed healing meant I’d wake up one day and magically stop hurting. I thought it meant I’d feel strong and peaceful all the time. Instead, I felt confused, ...

In this raw and emotional episode, we’re diving deep into one of the most devastating dynamics in families with a covert narcissist: when the parent doing all the emotional labor is unseen, while the other parent gets all the praise.

We unpack the covert narcissist’s relentless need for supply and scapegoats—and how this manipulative cycle plays out not just with their partner, but with their children. You’ll he...

I often get asked:
•Why did this happen to me?
•How did I get here?
•How do I prevent it from ever happening again?
•How do I heal from this?
These are excellent questions and they are very related to each other. Why did this happen to me has a whole lot to do with how do I prevent it from ever happening again. How did I get here is tied closely with how do I heal from this.
You need to know about Radical Personal Responsibility - ...

Not all bruises are visible—and some of the deepest ones live in the hearts of our children.

In this powerful episode, we talk about the unseen wounds of emotional abuse, especially when you're parenting alongside a covert narcissist. What happens when the world only believes abuse if they can see it? What happens to the children growing up in that invisible war zone?

If you’ve ever felt dismissed because your scars weren’t physica...

What a privilege it is to introduce to you Debbie Mirza! She is best-selling author of the book "The Covert Passive Aggressive Narcissist," one of the first books I ever read that opened my eyes to the nightmare that I was living. This book is an amazing resource for gaining awareness and understanding of covert narcissism.
Her second book "Worthy of Love' presents a gentle and restorative path to healing after narci...

Have you ever tried to Grey Rock a covert narcissist—only to watch it completely blow up in your face? You stayed neutral, kept your answers short, and avoided reacting… but somehow, things escalated anyway.

In this episode, we dive deep into why Grey Rocking often backfires with a covert narcissist, and how to use it in a smarter, safer, and more s...

Is a peaceful divorce possible when dealing with a covert narcissist? In this eye-opening episode, I sit down with high-conflict divorce coach Eleanor Marks to unpack the complexities of separation from a covert narcissist. We dive into the concept of radical acceptance—understanding the reality of your situation and adjusting your expectations accordingly. If you're navigating a high-conflict divorce or struggling to co-pare...

Imagine being pushed, prodded, and ignored—until you finally snap. Then suddenly, you’re the problem. Sound familiar?

In this episode, we’re diving deep into reactive abuse—one of the most insidious tactics covert narcissists use to flip the script and make survivors question their reality. I’ll share real-life stories—both from childhood and marriage—illustrati...

In this powerful Part Two of the two-part series with Dr. Anthony Mazzella and Renee Swanson, we shift perspectives. In part one, we discussed the adult child uncovering a covert narcissistic parent, and this is featured on The Narcissism Decoder. Now we shift to the parent who realizes their adult child exhibits covert narcissistic behaviors.

Dr. Mazzella, a seasoned psychotherapist and...

In this episode, Renee Swanson discusses the challenges of dealing with circular conversations with covert narcissists. She explains how these conversations can trap individuals in a cycle of emotional manipulation and coercive control. Renee provides strategies for disengaging from these conversations, setting boundaries, and reclaiming personal space and power. She emphasizes the importance of recognizing unhealthy relation...

What happens when the very dynamics that shaped your childhood follow you into adulthood—into your marriage, friendships, and even your career? In this episode, Mindy shares her eye-opening realization that she married a version of her narcissistic mother and how her upbringing with both a covert narcissistic mom and an abusive father left her trapped in cycles of self-doubt, hypervigilance, and struggle. We’ll explore how childhoo...

Have you ever walked away from a conversation feeling drained, confused, or even doubting yourself? Do you feel like every attempt at connection turns into an argument, a guilt trip, or complete silence? You’re not alone.

Talking to a covert narcissist isn’t like talking to anyone else. Simple, everyday questions—What do you want for dinner? How was your day?—can be met with...

What happens when a father’s love comes with invisible strings? In this episode, I dive into the hidden dynamics of covert narcissistic fathers—the ones who never yell, never hit, but control through silent treatment, guilt, and quiet punishment. If you grew up feeling like your worth was tied to achievements, if you feared disappointing a parent who never truly accepted you, this episode is for you....

In this eye-opening episode, we dive deep into the painful reality behind “kind” gestures that aren’t kind at all. When a homemade cheesecake or a perfectly crafted cup of coffee is offered by someone who’s spent years neglecting your needs, it can feel like a calculated move—a manipulation tactic meant to keep you tethered to your old wounds.

Through raw storytelling and a “Choose Your Own Adventure” narrative, ...

Many of us have been taught to focus on the good—to think about whatever is true, noble, right, pure, lovely, and admirable and to not judge. These are not bad lessons to live by, but do they apply to our spouse in a toxic relationship? Or are we unintentionally ignoring red flags in covert narcissistic abuse?

In this episode, we explore:

Have you ever felt like your reality was rewritten right before your eyes? Covert narcissists are experts at controlling the narrative, erasing your perspective, dismissing your feelings, manipulating reality, and shaping how others see you. This is a key tactic in covert narcissistic abuse, leaving victims feeling unheard, invalidated, and questioning their own sanity.

In t...