Yarn About You 009 Rick Ireland

In this episode of Yarn About You, I welcome the multi-talented Rick Ireland.

Rick, an actor, emcee, educator, and counsellor, shares his incredible journey from his early life in Toowoomba, Queensland, to his diverse career in the entertainment industry. He recounts his experiences working on iconic Australian TV shows, like Prisoner, his deep connections with beloved actors like the late Maxine Klibingaitis, and his transformative spiritual and emotional healing journey.

Rick opens up about his family's influence, his struggles with identity and health, and how he found solace in meditation and counselling. This episode is a touching tribute to resilience, family, friendship, and the power of connection and storytelling. We learn about Rick's remarkable life and the indelible impact he's made on those around him.

I hope you enjoy our yarn.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Music.

(00:31):
Yarn About You would like to pay respect to the traditional owners of the land
in which this podcast is recorded, the Darkinjung people, and acknowledge the
elders, past, present and emerging, for the contribution and wealth of knowledge
that they pass on from generation to generation.
Music.
Today's guest is Rick Island. Rick is a man of many talents.

(00:52):
He's a creative, an actor, an emcee, an educator, a counsellor and more.
He reached out to me years ago to try and connect a close friend of his with a close friend of mine,
rick's friend was the late great maxine flipping gators who ended up becoming
a great friend of mine as a result on a trip to melbourne a few years ago i

(01:15):
was lucky enough to sit down and record episode four of yarn about you with
maxine which was so special at the time but is now
absolutely priceless because we lost Maxine last year in April 2023.
Rick lives in Queensland and when I saw him posting pictures of local beaches
near me here on the New South Wales Central Coast a few weeks ago,

(01:37):
I reached out and invited him to join me on an episode of Yarn About You so we could hear his story.
I'm very proud to call Rick my friend and I hope you enjoy our yarn.
Rick Island, welcome to Yarn About You. Thank you, Clay.
I'm so happy to finally meet you after all these years, and it just seemed right to do it today.

(01:58):
Great to meet you too, and I love your podcast and really looking forward to it.
Now, I always start going right back to the beginning. Tell me about your parents.
Okay, so my parents, Daphne Margaret Island and William Arthur Island,
were two very loving parents,
two very beautiful people, loved by many people in our local community.

(02:21):
My dad worked in a convenience store owned by his sister Claire.
Claire's Corner was the name of the store.
Whereabouts is that? In Toowoomba. So I was born in Toowoomba,
Queensland, which is a town west of Brisbane.
And so my auntie Claire owned Claire's Corner.
My grandparents owned a bakery on the diagonal corner called Island's Bakery

(02:47):
way before I was born, because when I was born, my dad was 44.
And my mum was 17 years younger than dad.
So, yeah, so on dad's side of the family, there were, you know,
small businesses being operated by grandparents and my aunt Claire.

(03:08):
And my father was into horse racing.
And sometimes that wasn't such a good thing because there was money lost.
However, yeah, mum and dad had quite a loving relationship up until they didn't.
And then they separated when I was maybe 12 or 13.
Mum was a very loving person who also had a love for horses in her early life.

(03:32):
She lived around Sandgate in Brisbane area, and she would often go to the local stables at Sandgate.
And I think she did, I'm not sure exactly what she did with the horses,
but she would help out at the stables.
So she always had a love of horses. And of course, Dad's love for horses was somewhat different.

(03:54):
Mum never really bet on the horses herself, but they were both really loving
people. people, my mother had the kindest heart and she would literally give
you the shirt off her back if you needed it. She was that kind of person.
But unfortunately, like all human beings, you know,
they had their own histories and their own woundedness and often that.

(04:17):
You know, at times in my adolescence played out,
you know in in ways that that were somewhat
somewhat traumatic for me and my
brothers and sisters however you know
i loved my parents so dearly and
if i had my time all over again i would
not want any other parents because they they really

(04:40):
loved us even though at times perhaps
they didn't love themselves to the degree that they they
could have and yet that's humanity really
you know i think i'm exactly the same you
know i think that that you know i believe i'm a good
person and yet there are times when my woundedness would
get in the way of you know peace of

(05:02):
mind and and you know serenity and relationships
so but yeah i really loved
my parents and i'm really grateful for everything they did for
us you know my mother was a wonderful cook
you know we always had lots of food to eat even
if the family was struggling financially there was
always food on the table there was always we

(05:24):
always had brand new school uniforms which
was amazing when i think about some of their financial struggles back in the
day thinking about some kids at my primary school whose families just could
could not afford new shoes or school uniforms so you know we never missed out on anything so.

(05:47):
I think I'll stop there. And you spoke about your siblings. Whereabouts are
you in the ranking of siblings? So, okay, so I'm in the middle.
I'm a middle child too. Oh, right. Well, actually, I guess I am in the middle
because years later I found out that I had a half-sister who was adopted.

(06:07):
She was my mother's first child.
Back in the day, I think mum was about 19 and it was that time of life,
that time in And the world where young women getting pregnant was so frowned
upon and so judged, you know, it was all, you don't tell anybody.
So when mum fell pregnant, she was so happy to look, she was looking forward to having her baby.

(06:32):
However, her father, they were living in Sandgate, and her father said to her,
if you dare bring a child back into this house, you're not going to have a home to come back to.
So the you know the outcome of
all of that was my mum had to give her first daughter away
for adoption after mum had
actually breastfed a child which normally would not happen with a baby that

(06:55):
was about to be adopted out so mum had kind of bonded you know in that way with
her daughter and mum had in i guess a year or two before mum died from lung cancer in 2000 2000,
mum had tried to look for her daughter with the help of my oldest sister, the second eldest,

(07:17):
but to no avail.
And the reason being that at that time, my oldest sister's parents who adopted
her did not want her looking for her maternal, you know, blood mother, however you say it.
And so that never happened. But as soon as Heather's parents died,
Heather and her daughter tried looking for mum.

(07:41):
By which time Mama died, and they found us.
And I flew over to Scotland the very next year and met her.
Wow. And then she flew over to Australia to meet my other three sisters.
So I have two younger sisters who are twins, and, well, one of whom has died.

(08:02):
And I have my oldest sister, who I always knew was my oldest sister before we
found out about Heather. And my older sister has also died.
Within like three years of each other, we lost two of our siblings.
And yeah, so I guess, am I still in the middle if I have two older sisters?
Absolutely. And then there's me, and then there's Kim and Karen, you know, and now Karen.

(08:26):
So Karen and Jade, aka Lynette, sorry, Kim and Jade, aka Lynette, both died.
Kim, my younger sister, died from stage four brain cancer, glioblastoma, in 2021.
And my older sister, Jade, died in 2019 from liver cancer. And so,

(08:48):
yeah, it was a really, really big time for us all and particularly for my beautiful sisters, you know.
It's such a shock when anything happens within the family.
You're always scared that things are going to happen and then one day when it
actually does, yeah, I don't think you're ever prepared no matter what happens.
Yeah, and also with, I mean, Kim, my youngest sister who died from glioblastoma,

(09:13):
brain cancer, she was given, you know, approximately two years,
is usually the average time that people may survive with glioblastoma,
but she lasted over three years.
So, you know, she did really, and she was absolutely, as was my older sister,
Jade, they were both absolutely inspiring in terms of their courage.

(09:35):
And the way that they handled their diagnosis and the courage that they actually lived,
you know, It just exuded out of every pore of their body,
mind and spirit the courage to just tie up any loose ends and to just live one
day at a time with knowing that their time was...

(10:01):
Nigh, you know. Yeah. So, you know, life on life's terms, huh?
That's for sure. None of us, none of us know when our time is up.
So you grew up in Toowoomba? I did. Yes, I grew up in Toowoomba.
And as a little boy, I loved visiting my neighbors. I was a very happy kid.
And then I played judo as a young boy.

(10:25):
I played judo for a couple of years. My oldest sister, Jade,
she was very good at judo. She was in competitions and all that kind of things.
But I really, I quite enjoyed judo. I didn't enjoy football.
Dad wanted me to play football, which I did, but I didn't enjoy that nearly as much.
And then I discovered drama when I was maybe 12 years of age.

(10:50):
I joined the Toowoomba Police Citizens Youth Club drama group.
And the lady who was running the classes said to me, you're very good at this.
She said, have you ever thought of joining the local repertory theatre?
And I said, well, no. And she said, I think you should, which I did.
So I joined the local repertory theatre and started doing plays with them.
I think the first one was A Christmas Carol and followed by A Scent of Flowers

(11:13):
and various other plays up until the age of 15 and a half or thereabouts.
But also during that time, the Queensland Theatre Company came to Toowoomba
to audition kids from all over the Darling Downs area, which included Toowoomba.
Because they had a project in mind that was going to bring people like me together

(11:38):
to work on a full-scale production,
which was not only going to include the acting team and the design team and
the writing team made up of young people like myself,
but it was also going to include people from Queensland Theatre Company who
were going to head each of these teams.

(11:58):
Oh, wow. So we had a professional director, there was a professional costume
designer heading the design team, there were also professional writers who got
involved with the young people to write the script.
So it was like a mentoring program. It was amazing, yes, exactly.
And so people from all around the area like Dolby, Warwick, Oakey,

(12:18):
Stanthorpe and beyond, we all auditioned.
And it was my auntie Claire who ran her business, Claire's Corner,
that saw the ad in the paper part and she
said ricky you know maybe you could you could apply
for this and i did i auditioned and i
remember singing try a little kindness for part
of my audition which i love that song that

(12:41):
was a jamie redfern song back then and i loved jamie redfern and and so anyway
and i had to do a little acting piece i can't remember what i did but i got
on the acting team and it was amazing so for the next two years i was involved
in the darling down to you theater the first year we did We did a play called
Genesis, a rock musical.
So there were lots of instruments and it was the biblical kind of version of

(13:06):
the story of Genesis, the difference.
And then the following year we did Bottom's Electric Summertime Dream,
which was a version of a summertime stream, a mid-summer night stream.
Thank you. so if you can imagine a 13 year old young boy 13 and 14 years of
age experiencing this amazing experience.

(13:29):
Project and acting experience and we
actually rehearsed and performed in
Toowoomba's Empire Theatre which is a
theatre that was originally a movie theatre way back
like in my dad's youth he would go to see films but it had lay dormant for years
and was you know covered in pigeon poop and we'd go in on the weekends and clean

(13:52):
up the pigeon poop and we'd clean up wherever we could to make it inhabitable, habitable.
For people to come and eventually enjoy our first production of Genesis.
Wow. And then the Bottoms Electric Summertime Dream the year after that.
So that, you know, from the age of like 12, 13, 14, 15, that was my introduction

(14:13):
to theatre, which was amazing.
That sounds incredible. I used to travel across the country for work, different jobs.
And the one thing I love about the small towns are the theatres.
And Clay, if you could see the Empire Theatre today, like the Toowoomba City
Council came on board and spent a lot of money. It's an Art Deco Theatre.

(14:33):
Oh, wow. So maybe Google it and take a look sometime.
Okay. The Empire Theatre. And there's a fantastic, like we have artists coming
in from all around Australia, sometimes overseas, performing plays.
You and I were talking earlier about Rowena Wallace. She performed Rebecca on
the Empire Theatre stage.
And there's been so many other productions as well. Oh, wow.

(14:54):
So you were with the local theatre for a while.
So I was with the Toowoomba Repertory Theatre as a teenager,
and then I moved to Melbourne. I wanted to become an actor.
I wanted to, you know, I'd spent my life watching shows like Number 96 and The
Box and, you know, just watching all these amazing shows.

(15:15):
And I think they must have had some influence on my wanting to kind of do what
they're doing. and at the same time also my love of theatre too,
which started as a teenager.
But I didn't know anybody in Melbourne, so I...
I was only 16. My mother did not want me to go to Melbourne.

(15:35):
I'd left school, couldn't handle school. I left, I was a school dropout,
as they say, at the age of 15.
And yeah, I wasn't happy, you know. And all I wanted to do was act.
And all I wanted to do was get out of Toowoomba and experience some other kind of life.
Life I'd been writing to an actress called

(15:57):
Dinah Mann who was a regular on number 96 for
a couple of years and anyway one
day I phoned her and said hey Dinah you know I'd really like to get out of Toowoomba
and move to Melbourne you're the only person I know would you be would you consider
putting me up for just a very short time you know I promise I'll be out of your

(16:18):
hair I'll find a job And anyway,
Dinah said, look, let me talk to Geri about it.
That was her mother who she was living with at the time.
I mean, Dinah was, you know, 26 or 27 at the time, living with a beautiful mum,
Geri. And she got back to me and she said, sure, come on down.
So I had saved enough money to kind of make the trip down and have a bit of
money before I was working in a supermarket full time after I left school and

(16:42):
then moved to Brisbane and continued working with the same chain of supermarket.
Market and then i caught the train to melbourne
dinah picked me up from the station i mean you know here
was i you know meeting my friend dinah who i'd written to as a fan for two years
on a show that i absolutely adored and she's she's just the most beautiful person

(17:05):
we have a lovely friendship to this day whenever we go to melbourne you know
we catch up and so yeah dinah put me up
diner and jerry put me up and i found a
job in a supermarket in port melbourne like the
next day or the day after full-time job and then
i found somewhere to live about maybe
two weeks or three weeks at the very most later and in fact it was diner who

(17:29):
helped me to find an agent now diner knew that i loved theater and acting but
she didn't know if i was good at it and so i remember her going upstairs and bringing down a script,
something that I think she'd worked on in her career.
I can't remember what the script was. It wasn't number 96, I don't think.

(17:50):
And anyway, we did a bit of a read together. And I think that was enough for
her to then suggest to me that I could join an agency.
And it was actually the Barry Michael Agency. And so I went to meet Barry,
and he accepted me for his books.

(18:12):
I think within a week I was being an extra on the Sullivans.
And then I got my first line on the Sullivans when Paul Cronin's character,
Dave Sullivan, had become a captain or something.
And I was this young kid in an alleyway in Camberwell, and Dave Sullivan walks
proudly down the laneway in his captain's outfit.

(18:34):
And my line was, G'day, Captain. And so I think that was my first one line on The Sullivans.
And then I ended up getting a few
more lines in another episode of The Sullivans. And then I got Cop Shop.
But before too long, I also got a role in a telly movie called Dead Man's Float.

(18:57):
And if Jackie Gordon's listening, she's going to be going.
Dead Man's Float was a children's telly movie. that we filmed at Lawn,
and the juvenile leads were myself, Greg Rowe, Sally Boyden, and Jackie Gordon.

(19:18):
And also in the cast was Bill Hunter, Bunny Brooke, Ernie Sigley, and other people.
And I had to have an American accent for that.
Right so i did this audition with tom
broadbridge and and before i knew it i
had gotten the role actually tom said to

(19:39):
me you know rick the reason you got this role he said is because of your enthusiasm
to want to do it you know so that was good enough for me yeah absolutely so
then i jumped in a car one day with bill hunter who had a 12 pack of victoria
bitter cans of beer sitting Sitting on his lap.

(19:59):
Everybody I know has a story drinking with Bill Hunter. Right.
Always. I never drank with Bill Hunter, but I remember Tom looking over and
saying, hey, Bill, you know, what's going on here?
And I remember Bill looking at Tom and saying, hey, Tom.
Have you ever known me to not do a good job? And that was enough,
you know, for Tom Broadbridge to not say anymore.

(20:21):
So we made the trip out to Lorne and it was the most fantastic experience.
I think we only filmed for, I don't know, 12 days or something.
And the telemovie is probably not that great, but my mother loved it.
And it was a terrific experience.
Those were the days when there was so much production being made here in Australia?
Yeah, the 80s, yeah. Yeah, it was a great time. Really, really good,

(20:44):
different creative projects.
Do you mind me asking what your first job in television was?
My first job in telly, I did some commercials, but my first job in telly was
in a show called Peter and Pompey. It was a telly movie for the ABC.
There were a group of them made for the Bicentennial.
And that was with Kate McDonald, Lynette Curran, Emile Minty,

(21:07):
Amanda Muggleton, Paul Chubb.
It was a really, really good cast. and Dennis Miller, who I worked with later on as well.
But yeah, they were the days when there was always productions going on.
Yeah, there were really good times in the 80s. I loved it. That's fantastic.
I mean, I was so grateful for Dinah's friendship and for her helping me, you know?

(21:27):
I don't know. I mean, maybe I would have gotten an agent anyway.
I don't know. But I was just so incredibly grateful. It was just like,
how blessed am I, you know?
Actually, I'll just tell you a little story. Before I met Dinah,
Anya Selecki and Chad Haywood were two actors that worked on 96.
And, you know, I started watching number 96. Like a lot of people that,

(21:49):
you know, that I know, particularly, you know, having joined the Facebook number 96 group.
Page were watching number 96 at the
age of nine just as i was i used to sneak into the
lounge and watch it on the telly and eventually mum caught me
out and said come on you can come and watch it with me she knew that
i could handle it you know i was kind of watching it more

(22:10):
out of the interest of the stories rather than you
know some nudity or whatever but anyway
one year in toowoomba i.
Remember being so excited and so i went to
see them they were doing you know an appearance and

(22:32):
then i i spent all my show money on a
fake gold bracelet for anya
selecky and i had engraved dear anya lots of
love ricky kiss kiss whatever so then
after the interviews i went up to anya and i was
so smitten you know she was so gorgeous just a
beautiful you know aura about her

(22:54):
and i gave her the bracelet and she was
obviously really chuffed you know and she took
my hand and she said would you like to go for a little walk you
know around the pavilion and so we did
we went for a little walk around the pavilion and and then
she took me into the caravan to meet chad haywood who
looked really unimpressed and i've spoken to chad about that in

(23:16):
recent years and he said oh i'm so sorry about that you know
i said god not a worry you know he's a young kid coming
into his private private space you know in
between gigs but so I started
to write to Anya and never heard back from
her and when Anya and I were walking around the pavilion she
had mentioned people that she really enjoyed working with and Dinah Mann was

(23:38):
one of them and so when I hadn't heard from Anya I wrote to Dinah and I said
I haven't heard from Anya do you know how I could get a letter to her and Dinah
said Anya had left the series and of course she was still on air I think at the time.
And I wrote back to Dinah and said, thank you very much for letting me know,
you know, what's going on.

(23:58):
And then Dinah wrote back and said, no worries, you know, how's life in Toowoomba or whatever.
And we just kept writing to each other, which is how we developed that pen pal friendship. So yeah.
How all that happened what was your first paid gig
sullivan's yeah yeah that
would have been i think my first paid gig and then i

(24:20):
went on to do occasional commercials i remember
doing a commercial for the electricity company of
the time i remember doing a commercial tv commercial for epilepsy yeah i did
quite i remember doing a tv commercial for aspro clear but my most favorite
commercial was by which time i'd actually moved from barry michael agency to

(24:43):
stacy testro management.
And stacy had organized an audition for
this television commercial to promote a
product called strong guard put out by dettl
that you spray all over your rubbish bins to
get rid of the germs and the pongs and so i
you know did this audition and then at the

(25:05):
time myra de groot was working with Stacey in the
office and it was a Saturday or a Sunday and
I get this call from Myra saying hey Rick
I didn't want to make you wait
but I just wanted to let you know that you've got the commercial and
I was really excited and you know within a week I was at channel seven studios

(25:28):
in Melbourne and they'd actually they'd actually changed this particular area
of the the studio and converted it into a cobblestoned laneway,
Melbourne laneway, with the backs of houses and including a chicken coop,
and they had a sparkling...
Brand new, what looked like a brand new garbage truck that would be part of

(25:52):
the shoot, which would come down the street as four singing garbos were singing
about this fantastic product called Strongarm put out by Dettol.
And we mimed it, actually. They'd organized professional singers to record the
jingle, which we mimed at that time.
But I think that was the only time in my career where I was recognized on the

(26:15):
train by school kids. They'd always say, oh, there's the Garbo from the Garbo ad.
Because other television work that I'd done over the years, it never brought
any recognition, you know, which is probably a great thing.
I'm sure there's a lot of really famous actors out there that wished they weren't
as recognised as they were.
So that was a really well-paid commercial.

(26:36):
But that wasn't my first commercial. Oh, and in fact, that commercial ended
up on Barry Humphrey's series called Flashback. Oh, yeah. which is a great series.
So it goes through the 60s, 70s, 80s, I think, or maybe 90s,
I can't remember, but that commercial is, and Barry introduces a commercial

(26:58):
in a way, says something like.
And just at a time in life where men were getting in touch with their feminine
side, and you see me holding up this spray can of Strongard,
looking very in touch with his feminine side. Right.
So yeah. But yeah, my first paid gig was probably the Sullivans.

(27:18):
And then I went on to do, make appearances in shows like Cop Shop and Neighbours
and Home and Away, when I moved to Sydney, that was. What era of Home and Away?
So I'm thinking 1991-ish. Okay. So I think it had only just started.
88, it started. Did it? Yeah. Oh, right. 88, I think. Yeah, I think maybe it

(27:39):
was even 1990, I did Home and Away.
And I just had a small role playing a a workman who came into the school to
do some work that I think was leading toward a new building being built.
And they had to remove a tree in the playground, which the kids were all up in arms about.
So they came and confronted me about it. And so, yeah, it was like what we call a 50-worder.

(28:00):
And, yeah, so, yeah, but I did Prisoner, Neighbours, Cop Shop,
East Street, I appeared on that as well.
But my main bread and butter back in the 80s was theatre and education.
So I was contracted to, I think, at least three theatre companies in Melbourne
at the time, Handspan Theatre.
Arena Theatre, there was another theatre company called Out Theatre,

(28:24):
which employed only LGBTQI actors and directors.
And I remember being really thing about that at the time and I,
you know, maybe there was a part of me then, definitely was a part of me then
that didn't want to be outed in that way.
You know, I was out, but I didn't want to be, you know, known as a gay actor or whatever.
But, you know, when I look back at that version of myself, I think,

(28:47):
wow, Rick, really? Get over it.
But, yeah, so I did a lot of travelling around country Victoria,
New South Wales, Tasmania, performing in primary, secondary schools,
performing over in the Adelaide Festival when I was with Arena Theatre and with
Handspan, I think, had the best opportunity.
You know, being employed full-time as an actor, you know, it was just fantastic.

(29:12):
And when I wasn't working as an actor, I worked in hospitality and I was so
fortunate because I ended up working at a place called the Chevron Hotel in
the middle of the road in Melbourne,
which back in the 80s was one of the most popular live band venues of its time.
And we saw all of the best artists, you know, Wendy and the Rockets,
Marsha Hines, Russell Morris, you name it, people played there.

(29:35):
And I also worked at a jazz club in South Melbourne, and it was the most amazing place to work.
My sister is six years older than me, and she used to love going to concerts with her girlfriend.
And when she was about 13 or 14, mum and dad said, right, you're only allowed
to go if you take your brother with you.
So I used to go to all the big concerts that have Lidcombe Oval or,

(29:58):
you know, at a showground somewhere where they'd have people like Midnight Oil,
Cold Chisel, The All-Nighters, Mondo Rock, like all these different bands would come on.
They'd come on and do three or four songs and then somebody else would come on.
Dragon, you know, it was just a really good time.
That sounds amazing. All of those people you just mentioned played at the Chevron more than once.

(30:19):
Yeah, I'm sure. Because they used to just travel around. Yeah. It's wonderful.
They're starting to do it again now. I know Wendy Matthews is up here on the
Central Coast regularly with groups of other people.
Yeah, it's such a great way to be exposed to music. It really was a special
era, wasn't it? And I'm not sure how old you are. I'm 61.
I just turned 50. Oh, wow. You're 80. Okay. I don't feel like it.

(30:44):
But I mean, I just look back at that era and think I'm so lucky that I was in
Melbourne during the 80s. It was fantastic.
I always think of the difference between bands or even celebrities now as to
what they were back when I was growing up.
I don't think you'll have icons anymore. more.

(31:05):
You know, when you look at people like you spoke about Rowena Wallace or,
you know, people who are on the front of all the magazines, they were famous.
They couldn't go anywhere. They couldn't do anything.
I don't know half the people that are on the cover of magazines these days.
And if you do, you know, everything about them. So there's no mystique.
It's such a wonderful thing that we've got so many avenues, but I also find it really sad.

(31:27):
We don't kind of hold people up like we used to.
Yeah. That's really interesting. Like as you were sharing that,
I was just thinking, I wonder if, for example, you know, actors from Home and
Away who may be on the front cover of, I think, the TV Week is still in existence, isn't it?
Magazines like that, which back in the 80s, if you're on the front cover of

(31:47):
TV Week, like people, beautiful people like Paula Duncan and Linda Stoner and,
you know, Abigail and, you know, just people from that era that were so well known and so loved.
You know people like me really kind
of in a way revered them i wonder if that is still happening
to a degree you think not like in terms of people of

(32:10):
my age back in the 80s now do you think they would be revering the home and
away actors as much as unfortunately i don't think that they do yeah even movie
stars you know there's so many interviews now and you know tiktok and facebook
book and stuff where people can get on there and be themselves and talk.
Like I said before, there just isn't a mystique that there is.

(32:33):
You think about superstars like Madonna.
Don't know, you know, maybe Beyonce is one of the last ones.
You've got people like Taylor Swift, but even she's human, you know,
where people like Bowie, they were superhuman.
They were just these icons that were just incredible.

(32:53):
I kind of miss that. I don't know whether it's just because I'm getting older
that I'm seeing them differently or seeing people differently,
but I don't think there's, you know, the Hollywood legends like your Elvis's
or your, you know, Cary Grant's and all that anymore.
It doesn't happen anymore. Yes, and I was just thinking then too about,
you know, what it would have been like for my dad who, if he was alive today, he'd be over 100.

(33:17):
But when he was like in his teens and watching, you know, the movie stars of
his day and his generation, you know, yeah, completely different now.
Well, when I did the first series of Clowning Around, we had an old American
actor called Van Johnson.
Who was in the show and I was 17. I had no idea who he was, but I found out

(33:37):
later that my mum's mum, my grandmother adored him when he was in the movies
in the forties and she passed away way before I was born.
But you know, mum was saying, if only my mum knew that you'd be working with Van Johnson.
And when I met him, he was lovely. He was such a lovely man,
but you know, he was just another actor.
I was working with Ernie Dingo, you know, he was, he was exciting.

(33:59):
But I, I wish now, now that I know a lot more,
my 50-year-old self, you know, knows about Van Johnson's career and,
you know, he was friends with Angela Lansbury and Judy Garland and Elizabeth
Taylor he did shows with. He was with MGM for years.
Jimmy Durante, Jimmy Stewart, you know, and the only person I asked him about

(34:20):
was Barbara Eden because I loved her.
You and I both have that in common, don't we? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You both have that picture. Yeah, you've got your picture. Barbara Eden. That's right.
And, and go to going full circle. I, um, I, there was one day when we're on
the set with Van and he said, you never asked me about anybody.
How come you never asked me about anybody?

(34:40):
And I just kind of shrugged and said, Oh, have you met Barbara Eden?
And he looked at me like I was crazy. And he said.
No, but when I go back, I'm going to find her and I'm going to tell her you said hello.
And that was it. I was happy. You know, I didn't care about it.
He'd talk about, what did he say?
He said, the Gabor sisters, they open their mouths more than they open their
legs. And that's saying something.

(35:01):
You know, he'd say all these incredible things and they didn't mean anything
to me at the time, but I wish I'd written stuff down or had this medium,
you know, imagine talking to that man now.
But fast forward to 2018, Van's long gone, but Barbara Eden isn't.
And she's in Homebush Bay and at some sort of Comic-Con or something like that.

(35:23):
So I go along, I get my ticket and I've got, what, 30 seconds to meet her to get my photo taken.
And I think about what I'm going to say. And finally I get to walk up to her
and I look at her and she smiles at me and I say, I work with Van Johnson years
ago and he said he was going to go back to LA and he was going to find you and
say hello. Did he say hello to you?
She went, no, I never met Van. I said, I know. And we got the photo and I walked away.

(35:47):
And so I looked back and she was just looking at me like, what the hell was
that? What just happened?
But for me, I wrapped it up and went back full circle. That's so awesome.
Like, isn't she beautiful? I mean, I remember having that 30 seconds to it because
it was such a huge lineup.
When I was a little teenager, I mean, I dream of Jeannie.

(36:08):
I just watched all the time. You know, we'd come home from school.
I dream of Jeannie and Bewitched, Girls Island.
And i was obsessed with genie you loved
me too like i was genie you know in
my bedroom in your bottle i would i would
yeah my bedroom was my bottle i would blink i would
you know do the the arms thing and i

(36:29):
had a mirror that i could swivel and i would shake my
mirror sometimes and i'd go stop it master stop it
as though master was shaking the bottle
and then i created my own magic i'd blink
from my bedroom this is pretty crazy i
can't believe i'm admitting it but i would blink from my
bedroom i'd close my eyes i'd feel my way

(36:50):
into the lounge room and then
i'd get into the lounge you know and then i'd suddenly be in another room so
did you tell her about that no there wasn't time no there wasn't time but i
did have a chat with her and and met her husband when she was doing some signing
on the longer table, whatever.

(37:11):
Just, you know, some chit-chat. But aren't we fortunate, hey,
to have met? Oh, really fortunate. I'm really happy.
You know, I'm really happy with the people that I've met and the time that I've had with people.
But yeah, Barbara Eden was, she was my ultimate. I was so excited.
But have you ever noticed that.
Back in the day, there seemed to be two shows of things, like Bewitched and

(37:34):
I Dream of Jeannie, like Francis the Talking Mule and Mr.
Ed, like The Adamus Family and The Munsters.
There seemed to be two of the same kind of shows.
Yeah, I mean, I was certainly aware of that with Bewitched and I Dream of Jeannie.
In fact, I think there was a little bit of… Oh, there were always rivals. Yeah.
But I hadn't thought about those other shows until now. That's interesting.

(37:57):
That's the sort of stuff I think of as an old man.
In all the extra time that I have now. Yeah, yeah. That's fantastic. What a great chat.
So what was next in your career? What was next?
Because how long were you in Melbourne? So I was in Melbourne for nine years,
during which time I did all those shows, Prisoner, Cop Shop,
Neighbours, Sullivan's, did all my theatre and education work with Handspan,

(38:21):
Arena Theatre, Out Theatre.
And then I decided that I wanted to live in Sydney. So I moved to Sydney,
and I lived there for five years.
So what prompted that move? Well, it was kind of a bit of a geographical in a way, I suppose.
You know, I'm part of a 12-step program, and we often refer to a geographical

(38:43):
as being kind of running away from somewhere to go to somewhere else,
but really not looking at the underlying issue that is needing to be solved wherever you are.
You know, it's not going to magically disappear. appear so I moved
to Sydney and I knew
like I'd I'd had a life like many

(39:05):
people you know I loved to drink when I drank I
wasn't a daily drinker but I you know when I drank I often drank
a lot I can remember the worst hangovers ever
you know I was also you know
quite promiscuous you know I was a young
you know according to some people you know
good looking gay guy who

(39:27):
you know just kind of got lost in that whole culture of
dance and drinking and party being
young hey you know just partying and all of
that but by the time i moved to sydney
i just felt you know i was getting older i guess and i just felt that something
needed to change and and i wasn't sure what that might look like but when i

(39:52):
first arrived in sydney i was still you know drinking and night clubbing, et cetera.
And I remember picking up the yellow pages one day and thinking to myself,
something needs to change.
I need to change. How do I change?
And so I remember picking up and I thought, people have mentioned meditation

(40:15):
as being a way to create change in one's life.
And so I picked up the Yellow Pages and I opened it up to M for meditation.
And I literally closed my eyes and circled my finger down to touch the page
and it landed on Raja Yoga Meditation.
And so I phoned them and they were offering free meditation courses.

(40:37):
So off I went to do this free meditation course, and I just loved it.
You know, part of the Brahma Kumaris Raja Yoga organization and the meditation
includes what is referred to as drishti,
which is like an open-eye meditation where we look at each other in the eye
and, you know, the whole kind of namaste thing, you know, eye the soul,

(41:01):
you know, acknowledge the soul in you.
It was a very beautiful experience for me, very, very touching.
I really felt like I was meeting spiritual, you know, fellows back at that time, and it was very healing.
And so I really got involved in Raja Yoga meditation back in the early 90s.
I gave up drinking, I gave up sex, I gave up meat, and, you know,

(41:25):
onion and garlic, God forbid.
Why would you give up garlic? Well, apparently there was something to do with
the toxicity of the garlic and
the onion that could kind of counteract something within the body tied to,
I don't know, I can't really remember. I think it was tied to being celibate or whatever.
It could become a bit of a stimulant or something maybe if my memory serves

(41:48):
me. But I was happy to go on the ride.
And I just had no television for over two years.
Wow. And I was getting up every morning at 4.30 and meditating for half an hour,
45 minutes, going off to a morning class at 7.30 for an hour.
And then coming back home, eventually I lived above a deli in Oxford Street, Paddington.

(42:11):
And I worked in the deli and I lived above the deli and paid really cheap.
Really affordable rent. That wasn't a deli in number 96. No.
No? Different one? Okay. Just checking. You know that.
What? Of course you do. But, you know, that was one of the first things I did
when I lived in Sydney was go straight.
Go to Moncur Street. Moncur Street in Wallara and check out the number 96 building.

(42:35):
So, yeah, I, and that was directly opposite Paddington Markets where I lived.
So I was meditating and during which time I went to India.
And I'd also, Stacey Testro had moved to Sydney and opened up an office.
But I'd met this other agent through a friend of mine and, you know,

(42:56):
regretfully moved from Stacey over to June Evans'
agency, no offence to June Evans' agency but I don't know why I left Stacey but I did.
But I did work, I did, you know, I did that Home and Away episode,
I did. That's another thing we've got in common by the way, I was with June
Evans for a while. Oh, were you? Yeah.
When I was with Johnny Young Talent School and June Evans was there.

(43:20):
So did you know a guy called Jerry? Anyway, Jerry worked for June and he was
the friend or the cousin of a friend of mine.
And that's how I came to move from Stacey to June. But I didn't really get a lot of work.
But I did end up being contracted to another theatre and education company for nearly a year.
During which time we did a tour of Tasmania for a month and toured all over

(43:43):
New South Wales, performing in schools, doing a play called Flowers for Algernon,
which was a really lovely experience.
Wow. So, yeah. So I came back from India and I ended up being diagnosed with
HIV, funnily enough, around that time.
So what year was that? That was around 91-ish, yeah, Yeah, which really came

(44:08):
as probably not a great shock, but it was certainly a wake-up call, you know.
And so I took myself off to counselling.
So what do they, how do you prepare?
What do they say to you? They call you in? They say your test results have come

(44:30):
back and the doctor would like to see you.
That's never a good sign when they say that. No, no. Because when I came back
from India, I'd broken out in what looked like chicken pox.
And somebody had suggested maybe doing an HIV test. And so I did.
And so yeah, it was, but I was in the middle of...

(44:51):
Raja yoga and and in a really good headspace and
was i think i handled
you know the diagnosis at that time very well
although it was you know earth shattering in a way i remember feeling like my
consciousness had shot to the moon and come back and landed in my body but i

(45:13):
had some great support around me i went to counseling and then i also joined
a support group run by Petria King,
which happened at the Albion Street Clinic in Surrey Hills.
And I went there every week, you know, so it's lots of other men with HIV.
And we'd all share our experience with one another, and then we'd meditate,
have a break, and then come back and meditate for 40 minutes or an hour maybe.

(45:37):
And it was just so amazing to be part of that.
And then actually, you know, forward wind some years, I ended up supporting
at Petria King's Quest for Life Centre in Bundanoon. and fly down from Toowoomba
and be a support person in her workshops.
And I also brought her to Toowoomba for a day seminar around that time too.

(45:58):
So I have a lot of respect for Patria and the work that she does.
So if anyone out there is struggling with a new diagnosis or even just a traumatic
life event where you may feel like you need help, I highly recommend the Quest for Life Centre.
Center and and of course you know places like

(46:19):
acon the aids council of new south wales and you
know the queensland aids council whatever we're living
in a different time with hiv now of course you know and
i'm still so i'm very fortunate to still be here
you know i've been on medications for 24 years
and many of people that
many of the people that i knew back in the the day you know they've

(46:41):
long gone and i was doing
massage back in the early 90s i'd done
a couple of different massage courses you know and and
bought a table a massage table and i was
i was working at the glebe healing center one day a week doing massage and then
i also did some some mobile massage and so when i worked in the delhi there

(47:04):
was the gay choir sydney gay choir were rehearsing in the church there at the
Paddington Market site,
and they would come into the deli to buy some refreshments, you know,
mid-rehearsal, and so I got to know some boys.
One of whom was Teddy, you know, and Teddy had AIDS, and Teddy asked me if I
would massage him from time to time, which I did, and Teddy ended up in,

(47:30):
I think it was called Ward 17 at St.
Vincent's Hospital in Sydney, I think that was...
And I remember walking in to see Teddy this particular day.
I'd been massaging him at his home for a while, but now he was full-time in the AIDS ward.
And I remember just walking in there one day and sitting on his bed.
And, I mean, I was healthy, you know, feeling really good.

(47:53):
And here was Teddy, you know, wasting away and looking like,
you know, he was in a concentration camp, as were many other people, very young men.
And I remember one man coming through the door of the ward and he was a friend
of Teddy's and Teddy's bed was at the other end of the ward to where this fellow

(48:14):
entered and he just looked over at Teddy and he was walking with a drip,
you know, the tripod thing and just walking over toward Teddy and he was so
weak and so overwhelmed and he just sat on the end of Teddy's bed.
And he just said, you know, what's happening?

(48:35):
You know, what's going on?
And I just, I'll never forget that moment, you know, where he was just profoundly
experiencing this thing called AIDS, you know, which was just taking over the
body, mind, spirit of all these beautiful people.
And then Teddy passed away. And I also had another friend who ended up with

(48:57):
AIDS-related dementia, who I used to visit at the hospice he'd reverted back
to being very childlike you know because of the dementia,
but yeah very special and very sad moments and i so i've kind of come through
that and when i moved to queensland in 94 i've i moved back to my hometown in

(49:19):
toowoomba but i got in touch with the,
um place called the queensland positive people in brisbane they had a center
at the at Allen Street at the time, called the Allen Street Centre.
And they had support groups there and they had Friday night social dinners.
And I remember offering to co-facilitate or to facilitate a support group for

(49:42):
people living with HIV and AIDS.
Because when I was in Sydney, I actually trained as an HIV AIDS support group
facilitator with people like Russell Westacott, wonderful man who's still very
active in the community and Peter Canavan,
you know, the AIDS Council were doing amazing work and I imagine still are.

(50:02):
And so I got involved in just giving a bit back, you know, at the Inland Street
Centre and then started my new life in Toowoomba, you know, where I've been
now for the last 30 years.
Another full circle moment. Yes. Back home. What was it like going back home? Well, first of all.
When you were diagnosed, that was the early 90s, it kind of broke through, was it the mid-80s?

(50:28):
Yes. That it all came out? What was the prognosis or the information or what
did you know in early 90s about your condition?
Well, I mean, I knew that there- Was it still early days of people understanding what was happening?
Pretty well. I mean, I know that in the mid-80s, when it became really obvious

(50:51):
that Australia was now being affected by HIV-AIDS, many people were being diagnosed,
you know, there was only one drug available, which was very,
very much still in the experiential kind of stages.
And really expensive, wasn't it? I think so, yeah. And I'm just trying to remember
the name of the drug now. How terrible. I've just had a senior moment.

(51:14):
But it was the only drug available for men and women to take at that time.
And so by the early 90s, I think there were other drugs.
But you see, I didn't go on to any drugs until 2000.

(51:35):
So I've been on drugs for 24 years now.
And I've been through many combinations of drugs. So each combination of drugs
potentially has a shelf life.
And then one becomes resistant to that particular combination.
And then you look for another combination.
I remember at one stage, my doctor hadn't told me, but he didn't think there

(51:55):
was any more combinations that were going to work for me.
God. And so he then put his head together with a specialist in the area and
they came up with my current combination, which I'm doing really well on.
Yeah so you know over the years
since the mid-80s there are many more
combinations of drugs now and of course as you alluded to

(52:17):
earlier you know it's such a different time now because many people
are going to live you know kind of normal in
adverted commas lifespan you know however
you know for people like me who have been on medications for
a long time there are other side effects you know
that can happen as a result of the drug so but you
know i'm healthy i'm well i'm content

(52:39):
i can laugh i you know
i'm doing okay and so i'm really grateful we're
still here we're still here that's right
but you ended up going home to toowoomba
i did in the early 90s 94 ish i decided
i wanted to reconnect with family because i'd
lived away for nearly 15 years and and

(53:02):
back then it wasn't like today where phone
calls were expensive and there was no social media so you were away from your
family yeah i mean i would travel home for christmases not every year but often
and but you know at that stage too i didn't know how much life i had ahead of
me and mum and dad were getting older.

(53:25):
How was, given the world and everything we knew about HIV, how do you tell your
family that conversation?
I mean, how did you broach the subject with your parents?
Well, you know, that makes me sad, you know, to begin to respond to that question
because I told mum first first,

(53:48):
and I remember the way I told mum was in the middle of an argument with her, and,
it was almost like that's the only way I could do it, so I kind of yelled at her, anyway.
And she crumbled, moved over to the table and sat down and cried her eyes out. She said, I knew it.

(54:17):
And so I immediately got onto the phone to her best friend and asked her friend
if she could come over and support mum, which she did.
And I'll never forget what my mum's friend said.
I mean, this lady I'd known since I was a little boy, she was part of the family.
And she said to me and to mum, she said, anyway, she said, come the time,

(54:43):
we can just say that it was leukaemia.
It's like, of course, that's the answer to it. Yes, you just like,
we'll just say it was leukaemia.
And that way, you know, there'll be no judgment. There'll be no, you know, whatever.
But seriously, isn't it? Don't you just love the way people think and people

(55:05):
think that, okay, we can just do this? Yeah.
But, yeah. I know. And, you know, it was coming from her.
Yeah, coming from the heart. You know, it was like nobody wants to get upset
here and we can just say it was leukemia and, you know, don't have to go through
any questions or, you know, people looking at you like you have five heads.
So, yeah. So that's how I told mum. And then I told Dad years later.

(55:28):
But when I went on to medication, my mother was absolutely beaming with happiness
when she saw me put on condition because I'd lost a bit of weight.
During which time I had my own children's entertainment group called The Freckles.
So we were kind of like the Toowoomba version of The Wiggles in that we performed

(55:50):
concerts for kids and we traveled all over Queensland. land.
We actually performed with the Wiggles at the Brisbane exhibition.
So yeah, I'd lost a bit of weight, but then the medication started and I just
put on all this weight and my condition improved and I felt so much better and much more energized.
And so, you know, that made mum so happy.

(56:12):
And unfortunately she died in 2000, the very year I began medication.
So at least she'd had seen the medication affecting me positively within that
year before she died. So, you,
was really fast acting, actually, and just changed everything.
And I've been, you know, I've been doing really well ever since,

(56:35):
even though I've, you know, had some resistance going on with different combinations.
So if anybody's out there who's newly
diagnosed with HIV or any potential life-threatening illness, you know.
Just remember that you're going to be okay and to really get any help and support
that you might need and to do your best to not think that you've failed or that

(57:01):
it's something to be ashamed of,
you know, because this is life and life happens sometimes in the least possible
ways that we might expect it to, hey? Oh, God, yeah, absolutely.
Like I was saying to you before, I was doing medical role plays at Gosford and
Wyong Hospital and I actually asked about HIV and AIDS, How come you don't hear of it anymore?

(57:27):
Like it used to be, you know, you're going to get it. You've got to be careful.
You know, now you don't hear of it anymore.
And so I said to the doctor, you know, how come? And he said,
well, people don't die of AIDS anymore. We can manage it. We can handle it.
Yeah, it was really interesting to hear because I remember I lived through when
it kind of arrived, I suppose, if it arrived.

(57:50):
And, you know, it was a massive problem. You know, everybody was going to get
it. that this was going to kill the world.
And I assume it's still out there, which obviously it is, but it doesn't seem to be a focus anymore.
No. And there's a thing called prep now, which apparently people can take, you know, when they're.

(58:10):
Having sex with people whom they don't know the history of or whatever.
And apparently it helps to prevent HIV diagnosis, which is amazing.
And I don't know if that can happen without using condoms or whatever,
but I certainly would not recommend not using condoms and practicing safe sex.

(58:33):
But yeah, there's a whole generation now of people that are on something called PrEP,
which they can take and it's not
it's going to prevent the virus from you know
getting into their system i'm really not sure how it all works to be honest
but certainly wasn't around you know in my day yeah that's right and you've
been in um in toowoomba i have i have i i actually as i said i had my own children's

(58:58):
entertainment company for over 10 years which did really well also during During that time,
I enrolled and trained as an emotional release counsellor.
It was a course called Emotional Release Counselling and Transpersonal Studies.
And it was just amazing how these doors opened for me.
So I entered this three and a half year counselling course as a way of working on my own issues.

(59:22):
I did not enter the course to become a certified counsellor and to go out there helping people.
Certainly, I was open to that, but this course was experiential in the sense
that all of us who were trainees were supporting each other throughout the course.
And so, for example, if I was working on some voice dialogue as a client,

(59:45):
I would be facilitated by another trainee and vice versa.
So I trained in things like dream work, voice dialogue, sand plate therapy,
and also did a lot of holotropic breath work, a lot of deep breathing,
kind of akin to rebirthing where I went very deeply into my...
My baggage of emotion that I never knew was there.

(01:00:09):
So I, for the first time in my life, I got in touch with some very deep anger
and underneath all of my anger was so much sadness.
And I remember when the sadness was coming up, you know, it was around discrimination,
it was around the way we hurt each other and ourselves,
you know, it was around my mother and my dad's wounds and how that played out.

(01:00:33):
But one thing too that i really really
experienced during that time was you
know what carl jung refers to as a collective unconscious you
know it's like we're all in this together it's like
my pain is your pain my shame
is your shame it's like we're all experiencing the
human experience at any given time and

(01:00:56):
we're all kind of experiencing pain shame self-doubt
you know fear anger whatever it's part of the human experience but it was such
a gift to be able to not only know that i'm not alone in my being human but
that there is a way into releasing.

(01:01:20):
Some of the stored feelings and in that it had been kind of living in my body
for a long time time, unbeknownst to myself.
You know, when I was in Raja Yoga, I thought I'd found peace of mind and tranquility,
and then it wasn't until I walked into the breathwork room at the Poutyankala
Centre in Toowoomba that was run by a Catholic missionary sister who was doing

(01:01:42):
her own inner work and had studied overseas and come back and opened this amazing centre.
But I, yeah, I'm just so grateful for that experience and to have been able
to feel some of those feelings.
You know, counselling is great. You know, I did a lot of counselling,
cognitive kind of one-on-one, talking about my life, being validated,

(01:02:05):
being heard, feeling safe.
And then I entered into a whole different realm of inner work,
which not everyone has to do, obviously, but I'm just so grateful that I,
it's like my higher power.
I'm not a religious person, but I really believe in a power greater than myself today,
which I guess the 12-step program is what that's all about,

(01:02:29):
getting out of my own way and being willing to be vulnerable enough to let go
of all those things that I put in my body that stopped me from feeling,
whether it's alcohol or sex or food or whatever distraction,
whatever coping mechanism.
It's like you know one day at a time i'd just be willing to let go and let god

(01:02:52):
which means the higher power of my understanding and you know i'm really involved
in the 12-step fellowship today i have sponsors that i work with and i continue
to you know work on myself because you know.
Never going to be perfect thank god so i think
anybody who thinks that they've made it or that they're you

(01:03:14):
know the best they can be just should give it up then because it doesn't happen
i don't care how old you are there's always things to learn and you know better
ways to treat people yeah it's kind of a bit of a delusion really isn't it it
is that's sad yeah can i um talk to you
about something that's pretty special to both of us.

(01:03:36):
Sure. Well, first of all, Prisoner. You worked on Prisoner.
Were you one of those people that did a couple of roles in Prisoner? Yeah, yeah.
Actually, I did about six or seven different episodes of Prisoner.
What, different characters? Different characters, yeah. Oh, wow.
So I felt really, it was so amazing to be, I think my first character had one line.

(01:03:57):
He was trying to steal a bolt of material from a factory where the prisoners
were on On a day release thing, my sister,
Noeline Burke, had pushed out a bolt of fabric that I was to pick up and steal
but was caught in the middle of the act and was having a tug-of-war with a character

(01:04:17):
called Andrew Reynolds.
And then I gave up and I said, Ah, have at you, pig!
And that was my first prisoner line. And then I was called back to do other
episodes. And the last episode I did, I got to act alongside Lois Ramsey.
I played a punk rocker one day on the beach at South Melbourne with the aim

(01:04:41):
of stealing her handbag that was full of money.
So it was part of her storyline of wanting to go back to prison.
She played a character called Etty. And of course I'd grown up watching Lois
Ramsey on the box and was a big fan.
So I had like two scenes with her and it was just so wonderful.
I also had a scene with Gerda Nicholson, and I had a scene with Taya Stratton.

(01:05:03):
But of course, you know, one scene that I had was with our dear friend,
bless her heart, Maxine Clevengatis, which we filmed on Fitzroy Street in St
Kilda, where me and my girlfriend,
who were heroin addicts, met her on the street because Maxine's character,
Bobby, had escaped from Wentworth.

(01:05:23):
Is that the time she accidentally escaped? escaped she was telling me about
how how she accidentally escaped once,
i i can't remember actually because i don't know that i saw what happened before
but she definitely was outside the prison walls and she ended up on on fitzroy
street no i just lived around the corner at the time and i remember that was great i just had to like.

(01:05:48):
Go to work around the corner and do my bit. And anyway, Maxine had a scene with
myself and this other actress.
And I never forgot that. I just thought she was amazing.
I remember, you know, doing the dialogue with her in the scene and just really
hoping that one day I'd reconnect with her.

(01:06:10):
And it was in recent years that
i was involved in prisoner fan events
so i was i worked for judge enterprises
and events which did three prisoner fans events
where fans would pay money to come to somewhere to
have a meal and to meet people like maggie kirkpatrick val layman maxine cleven

(01:06:32):
gatus so amanda muggleton paula duncan linda stoner i mean i got to meet and
meet again some of these amazing people and get paid to do it. It was just fantastic.
And so Jackie Gordon, who I'd worked with on Dead Man's Float when we filmed
at Lawn, had suggested to Darryl Judge, who is the manager of Judge Enterprises.

(01:07:00):
Yeah, Jackie put my name forward as compere, which I'd never really done before,
so I was really nervous the first time.
But anyway, as part of this, I got to reunite with Maxine, but had reunited
with her through Jackie prior to meeting her again in person.
So we would call each other four or five times a week and chat for like two or three hours.

(01:07:24):
I've never laughed so much in all my life. You know, Maxine was both frustrating and a joy to behold.
You know, when I say frustrating, I'm sure I was equally as frustrating.
We had a really real relationship.
You know, we had our moments and we shared so much love.
You know, Maxine was so loving to so many people.

(01:07:45):
And I'm so pleased that you and I were two of them.
Ah, well, you, you put me in contact with Maxine.
Maxine had worked with a good friend of mine, Abigail, for a long time.
And I know over the years how much Abby loved Maxine.
So when you contacted me and said, you know, you've got a friend,

(01:08:06):
Maxine, including Gatiss, who'd like to get in contact with her,
I was more than happy because I'd been looking for Maxine for quite a while
to put them in contact with each other.
And she was. She was just a joy. She was just the most beautiful soul you could
have in your life. And, yeah, I really appreciate.
Yeah, it's kind of sad that she's not here anymore. Yeah, Clay.

(01:08:29):
And you have a wonderful podcast where you interviewed Maxine.
And it's just so amazing. Well, it was, it was really when she passed away in
2000, what, last year, 2023, that I decided that I didn't, didn't want to podcast anymore.
And then I listened to her podcast and I thought it was so awesome.

(01:08:53):
It was a really good point in time. It was just us riffing, just chatting,
just talking about life.
And that was what we did anyway on the phone all the time.
You know, we had about five years, I think, which really isn't much,
but, you know, she became a really good friend.
And yeah, so thank you for putting us in contact. Yeah, she's sorely missed

(01:09:16):
because she went so quickly.
You know, we spoke to her the day before and she had plans that she wanted to do.
And, you know, there's so many stories of prisoner and people and life.
And yeah, she was just amazing. So how...
Did you stay in contact with Maxine? So you started to work with Judge Enterprises?

(01:09:37):
Well, it was through Jackie Gordon because I got in touch with Jackie Gordon
because we'd worked on Dead Man's Float.
Then I tracked Jackie down on Facebook, I think it was, and Jackie and I got
back in touch and we were talking nearly every day there for over a year.
And Jackie was doing another Prisoner Fans event which wasn't with Judge Enterprises

(01:09:58):
and Maxine was going to be there on that particular day and I said to Jack,
you know, please give Maxine my love, she may not remember me but please tell
her that I've never forgotten her and that I'd done that scene with her and
Maxine had remembered and then before I knew it,

(01:10:19):
she and I were chatting regularly on the phone and all thanks to Jackie putting us in touch.
So, yeah, we just, yeah. And we met in Sydney on several occasions for the events.
And then I went to Melbourne. I did a road trip to Melbourne in 2019 and went
to her place and hung out with her.
And we went out for dinner with a mutual friend, went to Topolino's actually,

(01:10:43):
which was right near where we met.
Did our scene, our prisoner scene, all those years earlier.
And yeah, so I'm just so grateful to have had her. She was such a talented actor, yeah?
Oh, absolutely. So talented. Absolutely. And loved Abby.
Yeah. Like, you know. Yeah. Yeah. So wasn't that so special that they got to?

(01:11:03):
Oh, look, I'm so, I'm so happy. Abby's very private, as you know,
and she doesn't trust many people, but she'd always spoken highly of,
of Maxine and I know how close they were.
So so yeah it was good it was awesome you
know putting them on the phone to each other and just listening
to them both giggle till they couldn't breathe it was

(01:11:24):
yeah it was they're crazy both of them were
crazy but it was so awesome just to see you know just no no pressure no no agendas
that they would they just loved each other so yeah so yeah such a lovely gift
for them both huh oh it really is really is because the the connection that
you make in this industry It's such a fast-changing, lonely industry.

(01:11:47):
There's only a few people that you find who are genuine. And yeah,
I'm lucky I found a few over the years.
So great to have met you, Clay. You too. I didn't want to podcast anymore after Maxine passed away.
And then when I saw that you were on the coast a couple of days ago,
I just said to Amanda, this is perfect.
This, I need to have Rick on. I really, really hope he does the podcast.

(01:12:10):
And I'm so glad that you did.
It's my pleasure. you know it's a real honor you know i thought
oh gee me but you know your podcast is
is about people and their stories isn't it so i
feel like yeah i have a right to be here oh you
absolutely you do we've all got a story to tell and that's that's that's why
i started yeah you know we've got so many so many amazing people with big hearts

(01:12:33):
and they're the ones i want to talk to and i'm really great yeah thank you so
much for chatting today i'm sure we'll chat again my absolute pleasure thank you thank you,
Yarn About You is a Centre Stage Creative Production.
Follow us on Facebook by searching Yarn About You or visit yarnaboutyou.com.au

(01:12:53):
for more information about the podcast and our guests.