Cincy 360 -- Tony Pike with John Wolford

Tony talks Super Bowl LIX and QB play with NFL QB John Wolford, on ESPN 1530.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Good to go.

Speaker 2 (00:00):
All right, welcome back since he three to sixty. You
heard it right there on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station,
thanks to our friends at Penn Station. Let's dive in
a little bit more. It's obviously the NFL offseason now,
but a lot of questions still have to be answered
for the Cincinnati Bengals this offseason, and I think some

(00:21):
questions may have been raised based on what happened in
the Super Bowl on Sunday night. For that, let's talk
to a man who plays the position himself. I had
a chance to meet John Wofford when he was the
quarterback at Wake Forest. Obviously, my brother spent his college
career at wake so I've known John since then. We
keep up and he's nice enough to give us some

(00:41):
of his time today. John, what's going on?

Speaker 1 (00:42):
How are you?

Speaker 3 (00:44):
I'm doing good, doing good, same old stuff down here
in Miami, train for the offseason, chipping away.

Speaker 1 (00:51):
What was your twenty twenty four season? Like?

Speaker 2 (00:55):
Obviously you've spent time with the Jets, You've been in
Arizona with the Hotss, the Rams, the Bucks, finished with
the Jacksonville Jaguars. Uh, what do things look like right now?
For you, and I'm sure a very busy offseason.

Speaker 3 (01:09):
Yeah, yeah, obviously I was. I was at the Bucks
in training camp, got cut at the end of training camp,
got hurt, was in limbo for a little bit, kind
of had one foot in the door, one foot out
through the one. The NFL and Jacksonville called in December,
so finished out on their practice squad. You know, there's
there's teams that are showing interest this offseason. I'm healthy
again and stand in shape.

Speaker 1 (01:30):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (01:30):
You know, it's been seven years now, so you never
know how this this legal work. But it's been good
continuing to uh, to work in stand shape.

Speaker 2 (01:39):
Awesome, awesome stuff. You've had an opportunity since you've been
in the league to play for some really good offensive minds,
and you have an understanding of the game unlike a
lot of people out there. When you watched on Sunday,
were you surprised by the outcome? I looked at an
Andy Reid coach team coming off of an extra week
of preparation, Patrick Mahomes, They've been in that big game

(02:01):
obviously many times before.

Speaker 1 (02:03):
Were you surprised?

Speaker 2 (02:04):
I don't know if many were surprised at the outcome,
but at which the dominance the outcome kind of took place.

Speaker 3 (02:11):
Yeah, No, absolutely. I think you have a Chiefs team
that's been to the Super Bowl multiple times, and every
time they've been there, they've played exemplary football, and I
think it really came down to This is just my observation,
and you know, I'm obviously not watching the all twenty
two films, so it's hard to be for sure, but
just watching as a spectator, it seemed like the past

(02:32):
rush of the Eagles and this is like the common
thread that you'll see everyone I'm saying was really dominant.
I don't think they pressured the entire game. I read
that stat and what if six sacks and sixteen pressures
if you were to sit back and play coverage, top down,
everything like a Vic Fangio defense one to do, and
then still generate pressure with four rushers. It is just
hard in the NFL to move the football. I mean, like,

(02:54):
if you look at any Super Bowl team that's lost
with a great quarterback, including Brady and the Giants games,
and it seems like Mahomes when he's played Tampa and
now against the Eagles, there was just a consistent path
rush and that's just hard to overcome, especially to have
a run game either. I think they ran for like
fifteen yards between the running backs, so it just seemed
like tough sledding and they got behind and those the

(03:17):
line and thirteen off.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
Three rush attempts in the first half when you're playing
the quarterback position, as you alluded to there, if a
team is able to rush for and drop seven, I
don't know if we've seen Patrick Mahomes look that uneasy
in a pocket? Can you describe what happens? They use
the term seeing ghost or they talked about mahomes footwork

(03:39):
in the first half to where almost you start making
things up before it happens because you're under so much pressure.
What does that process look like and does that generate
more often than not from just so much pressure and
still a defense able to drop seven.

Speaker 3 (03:54):
Yeah, I think it's a combination of things. One, it's
harder to see right. They're getting consistent pushback. You know,
you're trying to read one to two to three in
every single time. It feels like you're having to see
around a defensive lineman's in your lap first and foremost
vision gets impaired more so than if it's just a
normal pass rush. Secondarily, like you alluded to, they're dropping
seven and there's just more body presence on the field.

(04:17):
They're able to funnel routes if they're playing three kerry,
if they're playing man, there's always kind of a roll
over alert safety. It seemed like on third downs, you know,
so there's just not as many one on ones without
some type of leverage that they're playing the funnel coverage
and provide body presence. So now you're trying to go one, two,
three or whatever because they're dropping seven, but after one

(04:37):
you've got someone in your lap and then you're kind
of in create mode. So it's tough flotting. I mean,
obviously he's an incredible football player, but I think it
just goes to show you that if you can generate
a pass rush and then provide a lot of coverage
presence and make people read things out, that's just a
very tough defense to defeat when those guys are king off.

Speaker 2 (04:58):
It felt very similar to Fay in Cincinnati, who watched
Joe Burrow for much of the year, because the offensive
line was constantly giving up pressure, and the most time
it was coming from the interior. Both the guard positions
for Cincinnati. So fans in Cincinnati have seen pressure, and
Joe Burrow has done an amazing job of eluding that pressure.
He had a career year this year. When it comes

(05:19):
to coaching philosophy or coaching scheme, is there anything looking
back that Andy Reid could have done to maybe alleviate
some of that pressure from John will or from Patrick Mahomes. Obviously,
when you can't get the running game going, that adds
to the problem. But are there answers to maybe alleviate
some of that that maybe they're kicking themselves about now?

Speaker 3 (05:42):
Yeah, I don't have the stat on how many screens
they called. I think obviously that's the lowest heading crew,
so getting some cheap throws out there five six yards.
They used to do this a lot with Rashi Rice,
where they would just sling it out to him, and
maybe him being gone not having that kind of dynamic
edge threat factored into why they struggled. But I think
dialing up some wide receiver screens where they clip it
out and get six or seven on first down, almost

(06:04):
like an extension of the run game would have been
helpful and obviously hindsight twenty twenty, but you know, that's
what seems like the lowest hanging fruit to me. They
maybe could have schemed up some things in the run
game that were a little bit more dynamic, but without
fully evaluating sure the All twenty two tape, right, it's

(06:24):
hard for me to apply other than obviously I think
screens may off.

Speaker 2 (06:27):
Sense when you talk about weapons. And I'm going to
switch this here in a minute to what's going on
in Cincinnati. How much does the lack of weapons Travis
Kelce might go down as the greatest tight end to
ever play the game, but many think he's maybe lost
a little bit of a step. From a separation standpoint.
Xavier're Worthy still a rookie, Juju Smith Schuster's in the game,

(06:50):
But how much does maybe a lack of a true
number one wide receiver kind of just pile onto the
problems of guys maybe not being able to get open
as quickly as Patrick Mahomes would have liked them to be.

Speaker 3 (07:04):
Yeah, I think I think it's absolutely vital, especially I
mean in he's incredible quarterback if he's arguably the best
in the league, and so he's able to create even
though you know there's not really a true number one
and that's why they got to the Super Bowl and
I had the record they had. But it kind of
comes back. It comes back to bite you when you're struggling,
when there's no run game, when the pass rush is

(07:25):
getting after you and they're able to drop coverage. It's
nice to be able to just throw one up and
have a guy make a play and maybe swinging back
some of that momentum because you would know this Tony
as well, like momentum is tangible, and you know once
once you swing it back your way because someone may
tell us and play that out supposed to make a
sosy relief for the quarterback, for the offensive coordinator, and

(07:46):
then you can kind of get into a rhythm, maybe
pop some runs, some screens and get killing. So I
think I think it absolutely is vital and having that
elite number one receiver helps a lot. And I think
Rashi Rice was that for them, and so I think
that injury again came back to fite that at the
end of the year, he looks like a freak athlete
who can really get open and man and create.

Speaker 2 (08:07):
Let me ask you as it relates here to listeners
in Cincinnati, because the big conversation this offseason is you
got to get the Jamar Chase deal done. There is
a lot of pressure from Joe Burrow on this organization
to re sign t Higgins. That's a lot of money
for two top tier wide receivers. Also are quarterbacks making
a lot of money. And if you look at the

(08:28):
deficiencies maybe that the Chiefs had, they couldn't generate pressure
on Jalen Hurts and they could not stop the pressure
from the Philadelphia Eagles.

Speaker 1 (08:37):
Do you still believe.

Speaker 2 (08:39):
From a philosophical standpoint, can you win in this league
if you are below average on the offensive line and
below average on the defensive line at the highest level?

Speaker 3 (08:50):
Yeah, you know, I think everything there's always a nuance
in that question, right, which is who's your quarterback? And
how good are those wide receivers? You know, what's your
secondary look like? And how would they hold up if
there's a minimal pass rush. I do think there's a
common thread with teams that make it to the Super
Bowl and like there's an elite quarterback and so check

(09:11):
that off for the Bengals and they have typically have
some element of a great defense as well in terms
of pass rush. If you don't have that elite quarterback.
So the Bengals are like sitting pretty in my mind
because they have arguably a top two quarterback in the league.
And then from there it's like, what is the combination
of pieces around him that gets you over the hump? Intuitively,

(09:35):
it seems like a pass rush, right. I just think
that that helps everyone out. It helps the secondary out.
If you're able to get teams into second and fifteen
every now and then, this are just drive stars, just
third down and long sanfr or just look at the percentages.
They're tough to complete, and so pass rush seems like
a must have. It seems like joke. And this is
just from watching from afar. I can operate with a

(09:59):
lot of presh. I mean, like look at this this year,
So you know, if I'm observing that, obviously you want
to keep him healthy. But if I was like putting
the GM hat on, and again I haven't watched up
tape to be one hundred percent accurate, I go, let's
get a pass rush. Let's not insvest in much of
the air line and transolve for that in the draft
because Joe can operate, it's not get them killed. And

(10:20):
then maybe trying to sign both because I mean, just
look at the offensive stats they put up, it'd be
pretty amazing. Now, if you don't invest in both, you
have to re sign one, and I think you have
to then go after some corners too. So it's like
it seems like D line corners and one or two
of those guys would make a lot of sense. Just
this is me just ripping up here, but those would

(10:43):
be my thoughts.

Speaker 2 (10:45):
Lastly, on the Bengals, the luxury for a quarterback. You know,
it's one thing to have Jamar Chase out there, He's
coming off a triple crown season. What does it do
for a quarterback? And in turn talk about the type
of pressure it puts on a defense if not only
you have Jim Chase, but you have T Higgins. Now,
the Bengals also got a lot out of the running
game and Chase Brown Mike Kasiki at tight end. But

(11:06):
if you're starting with Joe Burrow, Jamar Chase and T Higgins,
what types of problems are they giving every single defense
they come against And how much does that make the
job easier at times for Joe Burrow?

Speaker 3 (11:20):
Yeah, I think anytime a defense wants to challenge those
two wideouts and some type of man coverage. It's a
nightmare unless you play bracket. And then if you play bracket,
then you've got you know, I would play a lot
of bracket if I was playing the Cincinnati Bengals, those
two guys, and I think they did it. The Steelers
probably played in some bracket. I remember the Steelers tend
to do that where they're just doubling both these guys

(11:41):
and saying, hey, let's put our third best corner on
you know, Kasiki, if that's what it takes to try
and make him win one on one. But it just again,
it just cuts down the amount of calls that defense
can use to challenge the quarterback in the offense because
if you double Higgins, I mean, I would just never

(12:01):
leave Jamar Chase one on one, but then you got
the other one to go to, and so it's just
a tough it's tough fledding unless you have elite corners
and again a pass rush to try and disrupt that stuff.
But it just seems like they were just putting up
yards in the yards and yards. So it just goes
to show, I mean, there's probably not a great formula
when you combine two elite receivers a top two quarterback
in the league. Regardless of the O line play, They're

(12:23):
able to put up points in yards and I think
the defense, you know, not being able to generate a
pass rush and maybe some struggling at the corner position
is why they had a hard time winning football games.

Speaker 2 (12:34):
This conversation has been awesome, John, I certainly appreciated outside
of what you have going on in your training in football,
talk a little bit about what you're going got going
on from an APPS standpoint as well. There is a
ton of high end quarterback and college talent that is
in this Cincinnati area. It's a hot bed for high

(12:55):
school football. Kind of got a tentacles all over the
college landscape contingent of Cincinnati based players playing in the NFL.
I know you're working from an APP standpoint on some
exciting stuff. Can you share a little bit about that.

Speaker 3 (13:09):
Yeah. So, I've partnered with Tom Gormily. He's an applied biomechanist.
He does my training.

Speaker 1 (13:16):
And has a.

Speaker 3 (13:17):
Facility in Jacksonville, Florida, where we consult directly with non
NFL teams on QB development and that includes pre and
post or protocols, arm care, throwing workouts, biomechanical analyzes, and
then we work with twenty five plus NFL qbs. I
think we work with more of starting NFL quarterbacks than
anyone in the league. We basically generated an app which
is the light version of what that in person facility

(13:38):
does for NFL teams. So provides customized lifts, throwing workouts,
pre and post or protocols, arm care four quarterbacks tailored
to their experience level so they never overwhelmed. So if you've
ben picked up a football before, it's going to be different.
So there's a machine learning built into it so that
it's kind of tailor to each athlete. I've just rolled
this out and continuing to iterate and develop it and

(14:00):
improve it, but just want to kind of democratize some
of this access to what these elite teams are doing
at the high level.

Speaker 2 (14:09):
Obviously, at the high school level, sometimes kids don't have
the ability or the training or maybe the resources to
do that. Is this something that kind of encompasses from
a string training standpoint, from a drill standpoint, everything that
they need to be doing to get themselves ready to play, footwork,
everything you look in for a quarterback from the top down.

(14:29):
This is giving them a chance to complete all of that.

Speaker 3 (14:33):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, It's going to have an entire training
program that customizes to both in season and offseason with
the latest and greatest sports science protocols that have been
shown to act and act improvement for quarterbacks. So it
covers everything. It's quarterback specific lifts. They're going to get
you stronger, they're going to get you throwing the ball harder,
the arm care again, and you can go on our

(14:55):
website and learn more about what that actually entails and
then throwing work utsters pro tips, new demonstrations for every
single drill so you can just go out on the
field and cycle through and get better.

Speaker 2 (15:05):
What is uh, what's the what's the website or is
there a way that that listeners can can can gain
more information here?

Speaker 3 (15:12):
Kinetics dot co, k I N E T e X
dot c O, Connects dot com.

Speaker 1 (15:19):
Awesome, awesome stuff.

Speaker 2 (15:20):
Uh obviously something I would have loved to have when
I was growing up, but uh, a great tool for
for quarterbacks at any level. Right now, John, this has
been great man. I can't thank you enough for your
time and uh, I know we'll catch up soon.

Speaker 1 (15:31):
I look forward to it.

Speaker 3 (15:33):
Awesome Tony are you day.

Speaker 1 (15:34):
I appreciate you, John, thank you. That is that's John Wafford.

Speaker 2 (15:38):
He Uh he's been in the court, Uh a quarterback
in the NFL now seven different seasons. Uh, great career
at wake Forest and doing some great stuff. From an
app standpoint, one of the smartest, smartest humans that I know.
And uh you can tell that the seven years in
the league. The the verbiage and uh the use of

(15:58):
knowledge is is is certain there for John. We appreciate
his time as he gets into his off season. We've
talked already about the Bengals off season. We're just getting started.
Plenty more to come. Hour three since he three sixty
thanks to our friends at Penn Station on ESPN fifteen
thirty Cincinnati Sports Station