12/23/24 - The Tony & Mo Football Show - Mo Egger

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
To get to business, spikes them all in the back
of the outside. Obero and his Big bad Bengals put
it all on the line when they faced Bonnicks and
his Broncos.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
Tamahawk chops into the ground.

Speaker 1 (00:12):
Can the Orange and Black break these Bronx.

Speaker 3 (00:15):
Execute a two perfect.

Speaker 1 (00:16):
Side when you get the call from the Dangerous dand Horde,
a mighty Dave Leffon Covert starts Saturday at noon on
ESPN fifteen thirty, Official Home of the Bengals. This is
the Tony and Mo Football Show, Live from Twin Peaks,
drought to you in part by Encore Technologies. Visit OnCore

(00:37):
dot Tech and Station East Ghast subs Penn Station. It's
all in good taste Honda East Cincinnati's Ultimate Hondi Experience,
First State Bank built on Billy Ralph's American Grill in Wilmington, Ohio.
Just off I seventy one X and fifty inside the
Holiday and at the Roberts Center, and by your Tri
State Chevy Dealers. Chevrolet the number one selling brand in

(00:58):
Cincinnati for the past eight years. Chevrolet Together, Let's drive
on the Official Home of the Bengals, Cincinnatis. ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 4 (01:08):
A victory Monday edition of the Tony in Moo Football
Show at Twin Peaks in Westchester. Good afternoon, Merry Christmas,
Happy holidays, Moegar with Tony Pike.

Speaker 5 (01:19):
We're at the Westchester location Twin Peaks.

Speaker 4 (01:22):
We'll be back in Florence a week from today, hopefully
talking about the Bengals still being alive. But that's exactly
what we're discussing this afternoon. We're here till six o'clock.
If you are getting off work here, maybe it's your
last day before Christmas. Maybe it's your last day of
work of the twenty twenty four calendar year.

Speaker 5 (01:44):
Maybe maybe you're not working today.

Speaker 4 (01:46):
If you're out shopping, maybe you're out doing your last
minute holiday shopping.

Speaker 5 (01:50):
Whatever it is.

Speaker 4 (01:51):
Twin Peaks is awesome, this location. They could not be
more hospitable. The food is great. Tony just had the
meatball Skillet's skill it.

Speaker 5 (01:59):
I changed things up. I got the chicken tenders.

Speaker 2 (02:01):
Yeah, when they came out, I was like I should
have went there. And then I had this skillet and
I was like, I made the right this sill.

Speaker 5 (02:06):
I just had a hankering for barbecue sauce and I.

Speaker 4 (02:09):
Didn't want to just dip my fingers in them, so
I got the chicken tenders. Great beer selection, awesome staff,
great folks, very easy to get to. I seventy five
Union Center Boulevard Exit and we're here till six o'clock.
If you're thinking about a place to watch all the
Bowl games, the NFL game tonight, Packers and Saints, maybe

(02:31):
the Bengals on Saturday, Twin Peaks in Westchester is your place,
and got tons of TVs and we're gonna have a
lot of fun this afternoon.

Speaker 2 (02:38):
It's also one of my favorite shows in the sense
that you know, there are a ton of people here
today and as you mentioned, a lot of folks off work.

Speaker 5 (02:48):
Yeah, and it's always.

Speaker 2 (02:49):
Enjoyable to me when we first come on air, the
amount of people that turn and look and wonder, what
in the hell's going on?

Speaker 5 (02:56):
Why am I now.

Speaker 2 (02:58):
Hearing these two these fool bumbling on up here while
I'm trying to enjoy my food. So that could be you,
or yeah, you could be family, friends, listeners, co workers
who have talked about wanting to come up to a
show and are finally living up to that today.

Speaker 4 (03:14):
We've joked about this now for a while, and we
had some fun with it yesterday. You and I were
on with ken Brew yesterday morning before Brunos game, and
we've joked with ken Brew and we make light of this.
We've been doing this show together now for ten years. Wow,
it's a lot of fun. We've been doing the show
here at Twin Peaks since twenty twenty and over the
course of the last five years, you and I have

(03:34):
encountered a lot of people, primarily co workers, hundreds well
meeting co workers, I'm sure in most cases who have said,
usually before the season starts, I'm gonna come out to
one of those shows this year, and then as the
season goes on, you kind of ask them, like, you know,
we're in Westchester, we're in Florence, and there's always an excuse,
there's always a reason why they can't. We have kind

(03:55):
of determined that today is the day it's put up
a shut up time. After all these years, if if
you're gonna do that to us, you got a show,
Today's the day to show.

Speaker 2 (04:03):
And for many of those years, you know, it's been
at a singular location.

Speaker 4 (04:07):
Now we switched, yeah, go back. So if you're from
maybe northern Kentucky area or that way south. Yeah, there's
a spot for you. If you're from up this way,
there's a spot for you.

Speaker 5 (04:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:17):
It really takes a lot of the excuses out of it,
but what better This is always going to be a
fun show, even more so two wins over the weekend
for the Bearcats. Yes, even more so a Bengals win.
And let's face it, weeks and weeks and weeks ago,
if we were to say we were going to be
doing this show two days before Christmas and talking about

(04:38):
meaningful Bengals football still ahead, people would have thought we
were crazy. And yet here we are and what I
thought was a workman like win yesterday.

Speaker 4 (04:47):
Yeah, not pretty, took care of business, but they did
what they needed to do to open up the conversation
for what this week will now be, and that's an
opportunity against the Denver Bronco.

Speaker 5 (04:56):
Yeah, I can't wait for Saturday.

Speaker 4 (04:58):
By the way, if you're wondering, there is no Zach
Taylor press conference today, so we don't have that for you.

Speaker 5 (05:02):
He is going to talk tomorrow.

Speaker 4 (05:04):
Obviously, with the Bengals playing on Saturday, everything sort of
gets adjusted, so essentially there is no Monday for the
Bengals this afternoon.

Speaker 5 (05:12):
It was a good day on the field for the Bengals.

Speaker 4 (05:14):
They obviously took care of business and controlled what they
needed to control. Unfortunately, didn't get any help from the
San Francisco forty nine Ers. Bengals need the Dolphins to
lose a game their two remaining games, both on the
road against Cleveland and the New York Jets. Same for
the Indianapolis Colts, who scored thirty eight on answered and
then suddenly the Tennessee Titans made things at least a

(05:36):
little bit interesting at the end. Nonetheless, Indy does win
at home over Tennessee. The Colts now go to New
Jersey to play the Giants and then finish up the
season with the Jacksonville Jaguars. Also, other games that matter
to the Bengals this week, Kansas City wins, Pittsburgh loses,
and so the Steelers Week eighteen game now is going

(05:57):
to matter to that which obviously they'll take on the Bengals.

Speaker 5 (06:00):
If you are following.

Speaker 4 (06:02):
Such things, NFL dot com has the Bengals current playoff odds.

Speaker 5 (06:05):
It's seven percent. Playoff status.

Speaker 4 (06:08):
Dot Com has the Bengals playoff odds at two percent FTN,
which utilizes DVOA, has the Bengals at one point seven percent,
and various sports books have the Bengals anywhere from plus
eight p fifty to about plus eleven hundred. So the
odds are still not in their favor, but they're at
least still alive and kicking.

Speaker 2 (06:29):
Yeah, they're mathematically alive. And again, if you take care
of business Saturday, you play guaranteed meaningful football on the
last week of the regular season in the National Football League,
and I don't think you can ask for much more
than that based on how this season unfolded. I'm going
to do my best today to try to avoid the
what ifs of six different games this year that if

(06:51):
the result goes a different way, it's a completely different conversation.
So I think that's I think that's one of the
things you look at today of you know, this season
of really giving and being thankful, to be thankful that
we're playing meaningful football.

Speaker 4 (07:08):
Yeah, I mean, it's cliche, and I'm certainly among those
who wish the Bengals are going into this last game
with like a twelve and three record and we're talking
about playoff seeding, maybe being the one getting the first
round by but I'll take what I can get. Three
weeks ago, I think you would have been laughed at
if you would have said Bengals would go into Week
seventeen with a chance to play Week eighteen and have

(07:30):
it matter. And yet that's exactly where they are. The
game itself yesterday, the nuts and bolts of it. Let's
start with the first meaningful play, the Von Bell knocking
out of the ball from Deontay Foreman when he is
looking like he's gonna start a touchdown originally ruled a
touchdown on first and goal. You talk about what ifs now.
My guess is the Bengals still win the game. But

(07:50):
in a game like that, that doesn't matter to the Browns.
It matters a lot to you. You don't want to
fall behind early. They came this close. Von Bell kind
of a forgotten guys. The season has gone off. Makes
a huge play.

Speaker 2 (08:01):
Yeah, it made a huge play and gave them an
opportunity to set up a ninety nine yard touchdown drive
eight plays following that, so you know, it was one
of those where it couldn't have started worse. A sixty
six yard run by Jerome Ford. Thankfully, the Browns went
away from him on the goal line, and that.

Speaker 5 (08:19):
Was my first thought.

Speaker 2 (08:20):
Yeah, I mean, I feel like he's the guy right now.
They went away from him, and you know, at the end,
you set yourself up to avoid what would have been
Oh boy, here we go and a lot of uneasiness
going forward had that been the case. So you know,
for me, I look at this now in the sense
of the offense takes over and what I love And

(08:42):
it's a play that's already been forgotten. They're backed up
and on the first place Joe Burrow gets them to jump. Yeah,
and it's like, man, there it is first and five.
You get out of the shadow and you go eight
plays ninety nine yards and really from there you felt
pretty good about things. I mean, Dorriyan Thompson Robbinson had
net zero yards passing in the first half. I as
that game unfolded, and and you and I with Ken

(09:05):
yesterday talked about the Browns and you know, where are
the Browns going? And they got to move on from Watson.
If they are moving on from Watson, they have to
draft a quarterback. Well, Cam Woard, Shador Sanders, Jalen Milroe.
You know, it's not a not a great class, and
you know the the Giants have moved into the number
one overall pick and there's a slew of teams with

(09:26):
three losses. As that game unfolded yesterday, I'm wondering to myself,
without intentionally doing so, how much were the Browns trying
to win that game? Jameis Winston wasn't even active. Yeah,
Jerry Judy had three targets. The players were trying to
win the game, right, I don't know.

Speaker 5 (09:41):
From a personnel standpoint.

Speaker 2 (09:43):
Again, you're targeting Jerry Judy three times against a bad
secondary like. So again, from the first drive on, it
was workman like, certainly not crisp and clean.

Speaker 5 (09:56):
You hold your can we talk about that first drive?

Speaker 4 (10:00):
That was something to behold correct, Starting with the play
you mentioned, which a lot of people forgot almost instantly,
where Joe buys some room by drawing Cleveland off side,
and then you saw a little bit of everything and
it finishes up with one of the coolest touchdown passes
I've seen Joe throw.

Speaker 2 (10:14):
Yeah, it kind of encompassed how they've gotten themselves back.
Jamar Chase was great. T Higgins made a couple catches
Chase Brown, who we should designate a whole segment today
to Chase Brown and how good he's been so the
Chase Brown side of it, not only that past catching
pass protection from Chase Brown and the amount of snaps

(10:35):
that he's playing is ridiculous, and he did so essentially
playing forty percent of the first three games. He's almost
at one thousand yards three and thirty plus yards receiving.

Speaker 5 (10:48):
He's been awesome. And then it gets.

Speaker 2 (10:49):
Capped off by Joe Borrow making one of the best
plays that a quarterback will make at any level in
being horizontal with the ground and making a throw for
a touchdown. And you could tell from there, like Joe's
usually calm and collected, you could even tell after that
he was kind of feeling himself a little bit and
what he was able to do.

Speaker 5 (11:08):
So when we do the Chase Brown segment, I don't
want you to look.

Speaker 4 (11:13):
I don't want you to look. We've seen him get
like thirty touches in games. We've seen him, I mean,
they've leaned on him throwing, running, and pass protection. Yep,
don't look at how many touches.

Speaker 5 (11:25):
He had week one. I'm gonna make you guess how
many touches he had week one O.

Speaker 4 (11:30):
They'll let you wrap your brain around it. Yeah, don't
look it up because.

Speaker 5 (11:34):
The number, I'll just tell you, the number is going
to make you mad.

Speaker 4 (11:36):
Yeah, if you don't want to do the whole what
if thing, the number is gonna make you mad. But
to me, that's part of the Chase Brown story, which
we'll get to a little bit later on.

Speaker 5 (11:45):
I do want to talk about young defensive players.

Speaker 4 (11:48):
Yeah, made an impact yesterday because yesterday was the first
time that I felt like in this little three game
winning streak, Like, you know what, maybe the defense does
deserve at least a little credit for turning the corner
just a bit.

Speaker 2 (12:00):
That's my hardest problem is how much have they improved
in the last three weeks, right? And how much is
a product of the competition? And I think both of
those are true, yes, But that's one of the hardest
things going forward, right, correct.

Speaker 4 (12:15):
Like you know, if you want to say it's fifty
to fifty, I don't think that's true. But I also
don't think it's ninety nine to one in either direction.
We'll look get to that when we come back. We're
at Twin Peaks in Westchester. We're here till six o'clock
tonight day after the Bengals beat the Cleveland Browns to
stay alive. It's a victory Monday. On the Tonya Moo
Football Show Yes on ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports Station

(12:37):
Tonia Mo Football Show on ESPN fifteen thirty Moegar with
Tony Pike. We we have our guy, Drew Westra Heidi
paying off a wager here at Wow.

Speaker 5 (12:48):
He looks good today. Done.

Speaker 4 (12:50):
Drew is the official ud basket all corresponded to ESPN
fifteen thirty. Obviously was heartbroken by that suffocating Bearcat dec Friday.

Speaker 2 (12:59):
And that's a top ten offensive unit in the nation.

Speaker 4 (13:02):
As as a part of his lost wager, he is
clad and Bearcat gear.

Speaker 2 (13:07):
I'm so thankful that I won that bet.

Speaker 5 (13:09):
Because the if you had dayton one, you were gonna.

Speaker 2 (13:11):
Have to produce a show on I was gonna prouce
a show which I'm gonna be honest how to hit
a button?

Speaker 4 (13:15):
I would, to be honest with you, I rooted for
the Bearcats, but that would have been a nice consolation
guys watching you do that.

Speaker 5 (13:20):
As long as it wasn't my show correct. As long
as it wasn't my correct all right, well, uh.

Speaker 2 (13:25):
Good to see someone make a bet say that we're
gonna show up to a show and actually come out
to a show.

Speaker 4 (13:30):
Friend, friend, not colleague. Yep, friend, it's good to have
Drew here. It is now you have to leave this.
You can't go to your car and change back into
your DAT and gear.

Speaker 5 (13:41):
Goat.

Speaker 2 (13:41):
That's very well. All good.

Speaker 5 (13:43):
Drew is no longer on the clock.

Speaker 2 (13:45):
Nope, others are off the clock now.

Speaker 4 (13:48):
I just want to say Ken Brew teased us all
year along. Ken has three hours with us on Saturday.

Speaker 5 (13:55):
Yeah, before the game.

Speaker 4 (13:56):
I I just I wouldn't want to be his him
at noon on Saturday if he doesn't get here before
six on Monday.

Speaker 2 (14:03):
If you could put a full court press on someone,
we put it on Ken yesterday and we'll see how
he responds. I'm not holding out hope either.

Speaker 4 (14:12):
I think the Bengals have a better chance of making
the postseason. We talked about the defense against the Browns,
and it was.

Speaker 5 (14:21):
It was good yesterday.

Speaker 4 (14:22):
Now you take in the context, Dorian Thompson, Robinson, no,
Nick Chubb not a very.

Speaker 5 (14:28):
Good Cleveland team.

Speaker 4 (14:30):
Motivation might have been something you could question if you
looked at Cleveland's game plan. But Chris Jenkins had a
couple of sacks, McKinley Jackson had a sack. We saw big,
big play from Jordan Battle. We saw Joseph Osi make
an impact. And I'm not just talking about that bogus
roughing the passer call. Miles Murphy looks better. Are you
starting to see we we've talked about all season long

(14:51):
about building blocks on defense, yep, are you starting to
see that maybe they they have some with with some
of the younger guys.

Speaker 5 (14:59):
It's that you might don't want to go ride or die.

Speaker 4 (15:01):
Yeah, don't do anything else to the defense, but you
can at least start to build around.

Speaker 2 (15:06):
It's it's the hardest thing, I think to judge right
now on this team because of the competition they have
faced over the last couple of weeks. That's the only
caveat in this because here, you know, are Joe Goodbery
tweeted out earlier today, you know players from yesterday that
had an impact in the game that are under twenty
five on the defensive side of the ball, McKinley Jackson,

(15:27):
Miles Murphy, who yesterday lined up in a bunch of
different places all over the field, which I like, Yeah,
light it takes so long, correct, Chris Jenkins, Jordan Battle,
Josh Newton, Joseph was Si, dj Ivy Genostone, Cam Taylor,
britt All twenty five or younger. And I don't think
you know, Cam Taylor BRIT's not a corner one.

Speaker 5 (15:46):
For this but that's okay.

Speaker 2 (15:48):
But that's okay. Yeah, I think he was. He was
sold to be one this year and it just wasn't
the case.

Speaker 5 (15:53):
But you have to go get a corner one.

Speaker 4 (15:55):
Course, somebody else has to emerge and be corner one
if Cam's not it.

Speaker 2 (15:58):
Correct, But see, okay, there are formidable pieces that you
can start to build on this defense. Now, does the
defense still have holes? Absolutely? Does the defense? You know,
it's it's vastly different. This defense playing the last three
games that they've played versus Lamar Jackson or Josh Allen
or the Steelers that Washington, that's gonna be something completely different.

(16:21):
But for three weeks in a row, this defense has
played winning football.

Speaker 5 (16:26):
Regardless of who they.

Speaker 2 (16:27):
Play against, they have played winning football. And I think
if you take it back even a step further, go back,
and I played the audio today on cinty three sixty.
Go back to week thirteen, the Bengals fall to the Steelers.
The Bengals go to four and eight, and Joe Burrow,
the leader of the team, said, we will be remembered

(16:47):
by how we handle this going forward. Cornerstones. Yeah, right,
That to me was Joe Burrow sending a message to
the coaching staff and to the locker room that there
is nothing about this stretch where we're gonna just pack
up shop. This is something we're going to watch going forward.
And I think for the most part, you've seen a

(17:09):
lot of players and coaches take that to heart and
show a better foot going forward. Regardless of the competition.

Speaker 4 (17:17):
It would have been easy for a four and eight team,
after getting boat raced defensively to just kind of say, ah,
I'm good.

Speaker 5 (17:24):
I've not seen that.

Speaker 4 (17:24):
I mean, I know that only goes so far when
evaluating a team and a coaching staff, but and look,
it's it's been a little bit easier in recent weeks
because all right, they beat Dallas, so all right, well,
the Tennessee game matters, and they beat Tennessee, and so
it's like, all right, well, yeah, the Cleveland game matters.
But I haven't seen a mail it in correct, and
I didn't see a mail it in late last season

(17:46):
when they were playing with Jake Browning.

Speaker 5 (17:47):
And I do think that counts for something. And I
do think look.

Speaker 4 (17:51):
Man, you could say what you want about the competition
the Bengals have been playing with some of those younger guys.

Speaker 5 (17:55):
It's got to start somewhere.

Speaker 4 (17:56):
Yeah, I think it would be more trouble had we
seen those quarterbacks and those offenses do what they wanted
to do against the Bengals, And Chris Jenkins isn't making
an impact, and Osai is not making an impact, and
Jordan Battle's not making a play, and McKinley Jackson not
making a play. Like, it's got to start somewhere. Maybe

(18:18):
it doesn't finish the way we would like. Maybe this
turns out to be a flash and the flash in
the pan. Easy for me to say, but it's got
to start somewhere. Why can't this be the start?

Speaker 5 (18:27):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (18:27):
And I think the ultimate goal if this team falls short,
how do they make sure they don't fall short next year?
You have to have a better understanding of who you
have on the roster, and I think you're getting that
from some of the young players who when you do
have players on those first contracts, allows you to be
a little bit more creative with how you spend your money,
which this team is going to have to do in
the offseason. It's not it's not just locked to the

(18:49):
defensive side of the ball. Chase, Chase Brown, young player,
andre Yoshi Vosh had a good game yesterday, young player.
So this team has sprinkled in different piece is that
you can say, Okay, they're not cornerstone guys, but they're
building block guys. And I think Chase Brown is a
cornerstone guy. I would agree with that.

Speaker 5 (19:09):
I mean, you look at you want to talk about.

Speaker 2 (19:10):
I look at the landscape of like fantasy like he's
going to be a running back one next year in
fantasy football, Yeah, by a lot of people. Look at
the numbers he's had since becoming the feature back for
the Cincinnati Bengals. So I think the young core does
make a good difference going forward, not only the rest
of this way but into next year.

Speaker 5 (19:31):
Yeah, I would agree with you.

Speaker 4 (19:32):
It's twenty nine away from four o'clock. We're a twin
peaks in Westchester here till six Bengals beat the Cleveland Browns.
Yesterday afternoon twenty four to six. They'll host the Denver
Broncos on Saturday at four to thirty, a game you'll
hear live on.

Speaker 5 (19:46):
ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 4 (19:47):
It's the Tony and mol Football Show on ESPN fifteen
thirty Cincinnati Sports Station Cincinnat.

Speaker 1 (19:52):
Battle of the Broncos coverage starts Saturday at noon on
the ESPN fifteen thirty, the official home of the Bengals.

Speaker 4 (20:00):
The lines are a service of Kelsey Chevrolet Home on
lifetime power train protection and guaranteed credit approval from their
family to yours for life kelseychef dot com. Bengals today
signed Isaiah Thomas, the defensive end off the practice squad
of the active roster. He was elevated to the active
roster for yesterday's game against the Browns. Bengals Logan Woodside,

(20:22):
who spent the first thirteen games of the season on
the practice squad and then was signed to the active
roster on December fourteenth, guessing we haven't seen the last
of Logan Woodside. Bengals hosting Logan Denver Broncos on Saturday.
That is a four to thirty game. By the way,
I had some folks ask me today about what day
the Bengals Steelers game will be played on. That determination

(20:44):
isn't going to be made until Sunday night. Now, Steelers
play Wednesday, Bengals play Saturday. So I do wonder if
the NFL will look at those two teams as candidates
to play on Saturday, or if the game means a ton,
perhaps thrust that into primetime on Sunday.

Speaker 2 (20:59):
We will see share with you an encounter that I
didn't have, but I listened to in the bathroom on
the last break. Maybe so there's two gentlemen in there.

Speaker 5 (21:07):
Wait a minute, you were here during the break.

Speaker 2 (21:10):
I went to wash my hands. Yes, was I doing
I don't know, but I'm washing my hands in the
bathroom and a gentleman walks in to his friends and
he says, what are.

Speaker 5 (21:18):
Those guys doing? Why are they here?

Speaker 2 (21:21):
And the other gentleman politely answers, I think they're the
DJs who handle the music. Oh, so if you are wondering,
we're not in charge of the music. This is just
a show we do here on Mondays between here and
Florence for the last five years here and last ten
years total.

Speaker 5 (21:38):
We'll be back here in two weeks.

Speaker 2 (21:40):
Yes, at this location, but we do not control the music.
We are not in a DJ sense in that way. No,
but we are here to talk to talk football, and
I'm sure at some point a bearcat segment.

Speaker 4 (21:51):
I wasn't sure where that segment was gonna go. Monday
Night football tonight on ESPN fifteen thirty Saints and Packers
from lambeau Field College Basketball. Tonight's The Mark Pope Show
at six o'clock on ESPN fifteen thirty. Kentucky coming off
that loss, which I thought was more about Ohio State
and New York on Saturday night. There's no Sean Miller
show tonight, and I'm guessing the happiest man in the

(22:13):
United States of America is Sean Miller.

Speaker 5 (22:16):
Because our guy had a rough week.

Speaker 2 (22:18):
I was shocked that he didn't lose his mind yeah
on that last play. Yeah, I mean he essentially had
to bench Ryan Conwell yeah for a period of time
in the second half. But to lose the shootout and
freemantle and then lose in overtime. Played really well at Yukon,
come up just short, and then to claw all the
way back and cut it to two and lose it

(22:41):
home that's a tough three game stretch.

Speaker 5 (22:44):
And then lose it.

Speaker 4 (22:45):
Look, Xavier had a couple of turnovers late that you
can't have. They dig dig themselves quite a hole. But
that missed call at the end, it was egregiously bad.
And I did the same thing you did. I looked
at Sean Miller, who just walked off the and I
don't know if it was just like I'm done. You know,
he had like the briefest postgame press conference of all time. Yeah,

(23:08):
you know, Xavier fans are gonna say, well, we got
a tough whistle against you see the Dan Skillings thing. Well,
he had time to come back and come up, come
rebound from that, and we got.

Speaker 5 (23:16):
Some tough calls that went against us against Yukon.

Speaker 4 (23:18):
Yes, so did Yukon that call? You can't miss that call.
You cannot miss thatll in live, I thought he just tripped.
Well because of Sean Miller's expression, I thought, I'm like,
if Sean's not yelling and screaming, maybe he.

Speaker 2 (23:32):
Just looked like a bunch of the bench did. And
then to watch the replay, Holy cow, how do you
miss something like that?

Speaker 5 (23:41):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (23:41):
And and that point of the game, AP.

Speaker 4 (23:43):
And USA today coaches polls. Maybe it's not the Maybe
it's just the coach's poll.

Speaker 5 (23:48):
I have no idea.

Speaker 4 (23:48):
You see a seventeenth in both Kentucky falls to tenth
and both Dayton falls out of both hockey Tonight clubs
Blue Jackets skate against.

Speaker 5 (23:57):
Montreal north of the board.

Speaker 4 (23:59):
We're at a twin PA in Westchester, Tony IMO football show.
Since we did Xavier, do you want to do let's
do it now, marrikats now. Yeah, a successful non conference
portion of the schedule.

Speaker 2 (24:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (24:12):
We said when they lost to Villanova that if they
run the table the rest of the way, you'll go
into Kansas State feeling pretty good. By the way, the
first two Big Twelve games are winning. Kansas State's not great,
Arizona's not great. I love how UC is defending. I
like how Wes has shortened the bench just a little bit.
I love the upside for players like Betsy and Arrington Page.

(24:34):
That's all that I like. I do wish this was
a better shooting team. I hold out hope that they
will be, but I thought they would be better than
they've demonstrated so far.

Speaker 2 (24:43):
You say a better shooting I don't think the shot
selection has been bad and on paper, I.

Speaker 5 (24:47):
Thought first half against Data shot selection was terrible.

Speaker 2 (24:49):
On paper. They should have shooters. Yeah, guy, I mean
Connor Hickman, I know he was banged up. Shot at
a high percentage. Seema shot at a high percentage. They
have guys on this roster that can shoot. I thought
the defense against Dayton was smothering against a very good
offensive team in Dayton. I mean I've watched Dayton nearly
every game they've played.

Speaker 5 (25:08):
Their guards typically control games.

Speaker 2 (25:10):
Yes, and from what I've seen from the start to finish,
U see guards make it very difficult to run your
normal stuff, and they're athletic enough in the front court
with Mitchell and his ease. I thought Az'sa's last two
games have been his best because of the way he's
let things come to him and how he scored and
affected the game. Dylan Mitchell, I mean you saw it
firsthand yesterday. The guy is an absolute showstopper offensively defensively,

(25:34):
can completely change the game. I love their roster construction.
I think they're eventually going to start making shots. But
they lost. They going into Nova, I said they've got
to get two of the three big ones, and they
got two of the three you know, And I think
where they're at this year compared to going into the
league play last year, is a far cry better than

(25:57):
how they stumbled into it last year. I do look
at winnable games to start the Big Twelve. To get
one on the road and get one at home would
be awesome for this team, and I think a good
step in the right direction. I also thought you could
tell how much I have a ton of respect for
Anthony Grant. Yes, and Anthony Grant. The way he spoke

(26:18):
about UC and their athleticism and defense after that game
is a huge.

Speaker 5 (26:23):
Vote of confidence.

Speaker 2 (26:23):
And I thought Wes Miller and the way he said
it was one of the hardest games he's had to
prepare for defending Dayton, I thought there's a lot of
mutual respect there and I think those are two good teams.
And what felt like an NCAA tournament atmosphere in that arena,
the way the fans were. I thought both sides of
fans showed out really well. Great the intensity, the action

(26:45):
was there, It was fun. It felt like an NCAA
tournament game with that court.

Speaker 4 (26:49):
It wasn't the most crisply played game offensively by any
stretch and took date nearly twelve minutes to make a bucket.
U see had all sorts of offensive issues, but the
intensity in the building. You know people talk about like rivalry, Yeah, like,
I think there was a lot of mutual respect between
those two programs, and I'm biased, I care about both,
but it was intense. Wasn't hatred, no, it was the

(27:11):
atmosphere was awesome. Those are two teams that I believe
are gonna play in the NCAA Tournament. I think from
a bear cap perspective, what's happened over the course of
the non conference schedule is it's it's confirmed for the
most part. What I felt about how this season could go. Now,
I did think they'd be a better shooting team. Maybe
they still will be. My take going into the season
was they have a chance to more than hold their

(27:33):
own in the Big Twelve. Probably can't win it, can
get a decent set in the NCAA Tournament and should
be expected to advance. I felt that way in mid October. Yep,
I feel that way in late December.

Speaker 2 (27:44):
Yeah, and I think the Big twelve is it's very good,
but also not as dominant at the top. Agreed, I
think they're gonna have opportunities in a very deep conference
to get some key wins. Can they avoid the bad
losses in the Big twelve, you know, because I think
the confidence does play a big role in this to
see what they can be and who they're going to be.

(28:05):
One last thing on the crowd itself, when either team
made a run I thought was unbelievable. It was, and
you could feel it when Dayton cut it and cut
it and cut it and eventually got it down to four.
The uneasiness of a lot of Cincinnati fans yep, But
the back and forth action and how the fans interacted
with each other for being a mid to late December

(28:26):
game was awesome.

Speaker 5 (28:27):
Yeah, And I don't think you know.

Speaker 4 (28:29):
I chatted with one of the organizers of the event
on our show last week and I said, are there
going to be more games like this?

Speaker 5 (28:35):
Whether it's U See Dayton or other area schools?

Speaker 4 (28:38):
And I think the answer he told me the answer
is yes, And based on having some conversations on Friday night,
I think there are going to be more games like that. Look,
we all understand the.

Speaker 5 (28:49):
Vast limitations of that arena.

Speaker 4 (28:51):
Sure, those are not going away until a new one
is built, but it would not surprise me if we
see Xavier in an event like that with a school
like Louisville or Ohio State or Dayton coming back, or
maybe a double header like I think that event has
real potential and it would be cool if it was
a multi game event.

Speaker 5 (29:11):
But I'm with you on Friday, that was.

Speaker 2 (29:13):
And that was a lot of fun, and I think
key for teams to play in environments like that going
into an NCAA. If you're an NCAA tournament team, that's
that's valuable to play where you gotta worry about the
depth perception and you know, I saw it like the
student sections behind the baskets. It just felt every bit

(29:34):
of what so many Cincinnati fans are longing for. And
that's that selection Sunday, Where are you gonna go play?
NCAA tournament vibe and field.

Speaker 4 (29:43):
It is thirteen minutes away from four o'clock Tony and
Mo Football show here at Twin Peaks in Westchester. We
have to talk about the Miles Garrett hit when we
come back on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 3 (29:57):
Three sixty with Hike.

Speaker 2 (30:00):
Do we want to move on for Doctor Keith Going.

Speaker 3 (30:02):
And Boston Elmore.

Speaker 5 (30:04):
I think you should continue.

Speaker 2 (30:04):
Let me keep going.

Speaker 3 (30:05):
There sency three sixty tomorrow at twelve noons on ESPN
fifteen thirty.

Speaker 4 (30:13):
It's on here at the Twin Peaks. It's the fun show.
It was fun said yesterday, this is the fun show.

Speaker 5 (30:20):
We've got uh.

Speaker 4 (30:22):
Two two friends, two friends from the eighty forty four building.

Speaker 5 (30:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (30:26):
Shout out to Drew, shout out to Chad. Friends not colleagues, Yeah,
for friends not college.

Speaker 5 (30:31):
Is that friend allowed to have his name out there?
And this is his boss? Think he's working? Oh, it's
a good question. Well we've dealt with that before. Good question.
We've dealt with that before. I don't know. Man.

Speaker 4 (30:40):
We're here at Twin Peaks. It's going to Winchester. It's
about to be better.

Speaker 2 (30:49):
Part of my Christmas gift.

Speaker 5 (30:52):
What's going on here? Uh?

Speaker 4 (30:55):
I questioned a lot of things. My father's here. Just
talk to us, can I can? I I question something
really quick? Yeah, Miles Garrett, Oh, my HiT's Joe Burrow
about five yards out of bounds. Now, look, yeah, I
am not I do not do this. I do not
do this. I because you know, people hate Patrick Mahomes yeah,
And I hate agreeing with this take, but I do.

(31:17):
If Miles Garrett does that to Patrick Mahomes easy fifteen yards, correct,
why doesn't Joe Burrow get that?

Speaker 5 (31:23):
And why does nobody come to his defense on his team?

Speaker 2 (31:26):
That's so the Mahome stuff. That's just how it's been
the by the way, Mahomes.

Speaker 5 (31:32):
Should get that, correct, so should Joe Burrow.

Speaker 2 (31:34):
The most frustrating thing that I see happen this year
is Burrow taking the hits that he's done and no
one going to his defense.

Speaker 5 (31:41):
Right.

Speaker 2 (31:42):
That is like and I get like they smile back
and forth and it's like all mutual respect.

Speaker 5 (31:47):
I don't care.

Speaker 2 (31:49):
That's a shot that could take him out. Yeah, for
a shorter extended period of time, I would have bounds.
It's not a football play. It is egregious to the
sense of being late. I want to know, as we've
asked the different times this year, why is no one
coming to the defense of Joe Burrow when he.

Speaker 4 (32:08):
Gets to Joe Burrow. I'm like, dude, I just bought
you sword. Yeah, okay, some of them dating back to
the fifteenth century. I'm taking the sword back.

Speaker 2 (32:15):
I would take the sword back, yes, Katana.

Speaker 4 (32:17):
I'm taking that Japanese sword back since you couldn't fight
Miles Garrett when he tackled me three to five yards
out of bound.

Speaker 2 (32:24):
I thought that was the hidden message, Hey, here's a sword,
Why don't you show.

Speaker 4 (32:27):
Some fight when I get taken down instead? So number one,
there is the issue of why wasn't it flagged? It
should have been, And again I think every quarterback should
get that because the guy's been tackled out of bound.

Speaker 2 (32:37):
Do you think it gets flagged at some points too,
because I see sometimes a guy get hit and the
sideline goes nuts.

Speaker 5 (32:42):
No, the Bengals set, a flag is thrown. Nobody did
anything like this.

Speaker 2 (32:46):
Oh okay, Hope Jos. I don't care if it's a lineman.
I don't care if it's a coach. I don't care
if it's Jamar Chase, Chase Brett. Somebody needs to say no, no, no, no, no,
that's not okay. It's the fact that you and I
have had this conversation multiple times.

Speaker 5 (33:01):
This year is ridiculous. That's what stood. Everybody go taking somebody,
go help him. Nobody did anything.

Speaker 2 (33:06):
Nope, after he just bought you, Katanas.

Speaker 4 (33:08):
How'd you feel about the Katanas as a gift.

Speaker 2 (33:12):
I think the time he was a little a little poor.

Speaker 4 (33:14):
Here's brock Party delivering cars, here's Mahomes delivering rolexes and all.

Speaker 2 (33:18):
This other stuff, and then here's a sword. I thought
it's a little bit different. But according to Joe Burrow,
he asked them what they wanted. They wanted guns. That
wouldn't have gone over well at all. Uh So I
think he did the next best thing.

Speaker 5 (33:32):
Here's a weapon like hunting rifles. Like what kind of guns?

Speaker 2 (33:36):
I mean, at what point? Like what else was throwing stars?
Was that on the list? Could that have been something
samurai swords? Why do you go katana?

Speaker 5 (33:45):
I have a lot of questions I did think.

Speaker 2 (33:48):
I did think, like if you're a history guy, you're
into that stuff, like the fact that each one has
its own story, and he let them all go in
and kind of pick it out, and you know, Orlando
Brown Junior seemed to like the idea of it.

Speaker 5 (34:01):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (34:01):
I'm not huge on gifts that I just kind of
display that don't have Like I have memorabilia in my house,
but a lot of it has a story, right, And
I guess, you know, as Matt Lee was like, you know,
fifteen years from now, the best part of it's going
to be that Joe Burrow gave me that sword that's
sitting in.

Speaker 4 (34:16):
My take would be fifteen years from now, will still
be spending the money that I made Because I could
see my wife, Hey, look what my coworker got me,
and her going yeah, okay, Like well can we hang
it up?

Speaker 5 (34:32):
No?

Speaker 2 (34:33):
Yeah, my thought I was not going to hang it up.
I was almost thinking like if I were one of
the linemen, I'd have been like, Joe, will you sign
this too, because then you're like, value up.

Speaker 5 (34:41):
Don't personalize.

Speaker 2 (34:42):
Yeah, it's nice, you know, at the end of a
season or in the middle of the season, for you know,
Joe's a coworker to receive to give gifts to those
that you appreciate for the things that they do, people
that you have helped, you know, people that maybe you
work for, you've helped, you have a company, you've helped
a football team, to say hey, we see you, we

(35:03):
appreciate you. Here's a gift for you know, ten years
of service, five years, a year of service. Things like
that I think go along with would be would be nice, Yeah,
would be nice.

Speaker 5 (35:12):
That's why I wish I was an NFL player.

Speaker 4 (35:14):
Yes, so is it when you were with Carolina?

Speaker 5 (35:18):
No, I was a rookie, so I didn't, but did did?
Who's the starting quarterback?

Speaker 2 (35:23):
Matt Moore?

Speaker 4 (35:24):
Uh?

Speaker 5 (35:25):
Matt Moore? By gifts for the offense?

Speaker 4 (35:26):
No.

Speaker 2 (35:27):
I think at this point of the year it was
like the countdown is on. Fox is about to get fired.
It was inmates running the asylum. No one was worried
about Christmas gifts. I was still trying to get over
the rookie dinner deal and financially what that did to
a Christmas for a lot of family and friends who
didn't get a big Christmas that year. Like, man, this
guy's in the NFL and he gave us nothing. Well,
thank the lineman for that. I don't think we were

(35:49):
big on Christmas gifts. I don't think we had a
good culture going on in the locker room in Carolina.

Speaker 5 (35:54):
I also had to look up Katana sword.

Speaker 2 (35:57):
Yeah, I like saying it. Katana could I think is
more the go to?

Speaker 5 (36:02):
But whatever? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (36:03):
Well, when I looked at it, I found one on eBay,
but I googled it. The first thing he came home
was an eBay listening and I'm like, oh, why couldn't
we just say Samurai's hord? Yeah, but yeah, if I
was Joe, I'd be saying to some of those guys like, hey,
you know I got to that sword, could you at
least have my back the next time I get tackled
out of.

Speaker 2 (36:19):
Bound or a symbol of fight. Yeah, protection, right, maybe
Burrow wants a little fight in protection from the group
up front. One of them showed some fight yesterday. Unfortunately
it was to his offensive line coach and not to
the guys that are hitting Joe Burrow late and a
Marius Mims.

Speaker 4 (36:35):
I like that because I'm not a big, like touch
me guy. And so if you saw the footage Frank
Pollack like he's trying to tell him something and he
touches it, Like how many of us have wanted to
do that, because like, yeah, I'm not a huge You
get in my personal space and you're telling me something,
let me let me touch No good for Marius Mims

(36:56):
and let me tell you something.

Speaker 5 (36:57):
Frank Pollack for a second.

Speaker 2 (36:59):
Oh, he was a second guess thought to himself. He's
been described as like the gentle giants.

Speaker 5 (37:04):
That's a six foot eight guy who in the locker
room has a sword. It's a good point.

Speaker 2 (37:09):
That's a scary drink.

Speaker 5 (37:10):
Public get a sword. You think he got one. Oh,
he might have got the gun. A lot of people
want to see him get the gate.

Speaker 2 (37:18):
I act to like could you even imagine, like if
Joe was like, all right, you guys want a gun,
all right, I'll buy you guns. No, that would be
what an unbelievable setting that would be? He run out
of the league. Well, where do you draw the lines
on weapons?

Speaker 5 (37:33):
Does?

Speaker 2 (37:33):
Is it drawn on guns? Is it drawn on swords?
Nun chucks, hocket knives, sharp cutlery, blow gun, blow darts.
Have to get a break in stun gun, taser. It's
a fun show.

Speaker 4 (37:50):
It's four o'clock. We're at Twin Peaks in Westchester. We
are here till six. A victory Monday edition of The
Tony and Football Show on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati sports.

Speaker 1 (38:01):
Station Toyota Thon is on the perfect time to save
on a new toy even time to get to business.

Speaker 3 (38:09):
Oh spikes the ball in the back of the outside.

Speaker 1 (38:12):
Sober Owen his big bad Bengals put it all on
the line when they face Ponix and his Broncos Havahawk
chops up to the ground. Can the Orange and Black
break These.

Speaker 3 (38:22):
Bronx execute a two perfection.

Speaker 1 (38:25):
When you get the core from Dangerous Dan Horde at
Mighty Dave Leffert Covert starts Saturday at noon on ESPN
fifteen thirty Official All of the Bengals. This is the
Tony and Mo Football Show, Live from Twin Peaks, brought
to you in part by Encore Technologies. Visit Encore Dot

(38:46):
Tech and Station East Coast subs and Station. It's all
in good taste Honda East Cincinnati's Ultimate Honda Experience, First
State Bank Guilt on Billie Ralph's American Grill in Wilmington, Ohio.
Just off I seventy one X and fifty the holiday
and at the Roberts Center, and by your Tri State
Chevy Dealers. Chevrolet the number one selling brand in Cincinnati

(39:07):
for the past eight years. Chevrolet Together, Let's drive on
the official Home of the Bengals, Cincinnatis, ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 4 (39:16):
Seven minutes after four o'clock, ESPN fifteen thirty Good Afternoon
Moegar with Tony Pike. It's a Victory Monday edition of
the Tony and Moo Football Show on ESPN fifteen thirty.
We're here at Twin Peaks in Westchester. We are having
a good time. Yeah, feeling the burn right now, there's
a burn.

Speaker 5 (39:33):
We are here till six o'clock tonight.

Speaker 4 (39:35):
We'll be back at the Florence location a week from
today talking about the Bengals Broncos game and hopefully Bengals
still being alive for a postseason berth. First things first,
we're here in Westchester, very easy to get to right
off I seventy five. Everybody's in a festive mood. It's
Christmas Eve Eve, which is one of my favorite days,
and we're getting set for the holiday. We're talking about

(39:57):
a Bengals win. Lots going on. Who plays to watch
Monday Night football tonight. Great place to have dinner, great
place to have a cold one, great place to have
someone buy you a cold one, and an even better
place if you want to meet in person. Unbelievable, a
Hall of famer, he's here. The great Ken Brew has

(40:19):
just walked in.

Speaker 2 (40:20):
With a swimming and diving shirt from the Bearcat, and
he brought a gift.

Speaker 5 (40:23):
He brought gifts. This is unbelievable.

Speaker 4 (40:26):
This is incredible and he bought his other half better.
How about that.

Speaker 5 (40:32):
This is unbelievable. This is incredible. Ken Brew in the house.
This is unbelievable.

Speaker 4 (40:38):
Ken Brew goes under the good friends. Yep, Colin that
I just created. Ken has made the list.

Speaker 5 (40:44):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (40:44):
Ken has a permanently made the list. I think the
only person to do sports for three television stations in town,
the pride of Ohio University. You know, he used to
do the uh the pre and post game show for
the Buccaneers.

Speaker 5 (40:59):
He told us yesterday.

Speaker 2 (41:01):
In all the years he's been doing this, the most
fun and the most he's ever learned is doing the
show with us on Sundays.

Speaker 5 (41:07):
That is an out right it is I just lied.

Speaker 4 (41:10):
This is enormous. Yes, uh, well, it's great to have
you Ken for until Christmas. My Christmas has been made.
Don't need anything else. No, don't need anything else. This
is perfect. This is I woke up this morning and
I said to my wife, y'all be in Westchester today.
I told her I was gonna hang out and have
a drink after the show. And I said, what I
really hope is that Ken Bruce shows up and lo

(41:33):
and behold, he's here. Man, this is incredible. It's unbelievable.

Speaker 5 (41:37):
Wow, amazing, this is this is I don't know. And
what I like is Ken Man. I lost for words.

Speaker 2 (41:45):
What I like is Ken showed up. He brought a gift.
He didn't show up and just run as quick as
he can to sit in front of a fireplace. No,
he came and he showed up, and he's he's made
it known. He's willing to sign autographs today, take pictures.

Speaker 4 (42:01):
Now I've seen Ken's wife. I understand why he never
leaves the house.

Speaker 2 (42:06):
People are questioning why him. He's out kicked his coverage,
No question about it.

Speaker 5 (42:11):
He's out. He's out kicked his coverage. It's good to
see Ken.

Speaker 4 (42:14):
This is unbelievable and uh here we are touched and
honored that the Hall of Famer has shown up.

Speaker 5 (42:21):
You can unwrap it now. I can't wait to unwrap that.
Where do you think you got that hoodie?

Speaker 2 (42:28):
You know it's not One thing I didn't I didn't
think was that we would see Ken Brew. And if
you told me we'd see Ken Brew, but he'd be
in a swimming and diving shirt from the bear Cats,
I said, no chance.

Speaker 4 (42:37):
Told me we'd see Ken brew with him wearing something
that was made this century, I would have said, no chance.
So the hell that looks like it's actually had a
tag on it in the last five years.

Speaker 2 (42:46):
That is fantastic.

Speaker 5 (42:49):
All right, we'll switch gears.

Speaker 4 (42:51):
Are you ready to have the conversation about Joe Burrow's
MVP candidacy?

Speaker 5 (42:55):
Yeah? How do you not?

Speaker 4 (42:57):
So here's my question, first and for or most, is
a player's team not making the postseason an automatic disqualifier. Now,
for those who don't know, there have only been two
players who have been named MVP on teams that didn't
make the postseason.

Speaker 5 (43:16):
And you have to go along go back aways.

Speaker 4 (43:18):
So Johnny Unitas nineteen sixty seven, his team didn't make
the playoffs because they finished in second place in their
division with an eleven one and two records, different they
were great. OJ Simpson nineteen seventy three becomes the NFL's
all time single season rushing leader on the Buffalo Bills,
who went nine to five. So it's not like they
were on terrible teams. But OJ Simpson nineteen seventy three

(43:40):
the last non playoff player, if you want to put
it that way, to win the MVP.

Speaker 5 (43:47):
It hasn't happened since. So that's my first question.

Speaker 4 (43:50):
If the Bengals don't make the postseason, does that automatically,
in your opinion, disqualified.

Speaker 2 (43:54):
Over so as fair or unfair as it seems with
today's expanded players and more teams getting into the field,
I unfortunately think one of the prerequisites is that you
have to find a way to get into the playoffs.
And He'll be the first to tell you, as good
as his season has been, he could have been better
Week one against the Patriots, we wouldn't be in this conversation.

(44:18):
And it was a crucial fumble against the Kansas City Chiefs,
you know. So he's it's had a couple instances that
have hurt. But the numbers, like we do it all
the time, if you just do the blind resume. Yeah,
here's a number, here's his numbers. Here's his numbers. He's
gonna win that all the time.

Speaker 5 (44:36):
He's having an MVP caliber season statistically.

Speaker 2 (44:39):
Yeah, And I just think that it comes with it
that you do have to be at that competitive level
of being able to compete.

Speaker 5 (44:45):
For a Super Bowl. All right, So here's my question.

Speaker 4 (44:47):
Then let's say Joe plays great the next two weeks
finishes with forty five forty six touchdown passes Bengals.

Speaker 2 (44:55):
He'll be over forty five hundred yards.

Speaker 4 (44:56):
Yeah, Bengals finished with a winning record, but they don't
get the help they need.

Speaker 5 (45:02):
Should that disqualify him?

Speaker 4 (45:03):
Like if he's, if he's, if he's if he's deserving
of MVP consideration on a nine to eight team, Should
it matter whether or not they make the postseason.

Speaker 5 (45:12):
To win it?

Speaker 2 (45:13):
I think so okay to be in the conversation top three. Yes,
And I don't think Lamar did anything to cement his MVP.
I don't think Josh Allen did yesterday either. Josh Allen struggled, Yeah,
against the Patriots, So the door is open. But I
just it's it's easier now than ever to get into
the playoffs, So how many teams?

Speaker 4 (45:34):
Lamar actually, from a gambling perspective, did increase his odds.
He went from plus five fifty to now plus four hundred.
Josh Allen is still the odds on favorite minus five
point fifty. Saquon Barkley plus twelve hundred. He would be
the first non quarterback to win it since twenty twelve
Jared Goff plus two thousand and then Joe Burrow and

(45:54):
Sam Darnold are.

Speaker 5 (45:55):
Both tied at plus seven thousand.

Speaker 4 (45:57):
I think about that, Sam Donald's on a team that
could be the one seed, has the same odds as
Joe Burrow, who's on a team that has a losing
record right now in Patrick Mahomes plus seventy five hundred.

Speaker 2 (46:06):
So Joe, there's a lot of years too. Yeah that
if you put together the season that Jared Goff has had,
he's the front runner.

Speaker 5 (46:12):
Yes, you're right, you're right.

Speaker 4 (46:14):
So Joe leads the league in completions, attempts, yards, and touchdowns.
He is having an MVP caliber season. Here's one of
my questions when this conversation comes up, should we punish
the other guys just because Joe is on a team
that isn't as good Because some are gonna say, well,
Joe has done the most with the least, doesn't have

(46:35):
a good defense, doesn't have a good offensive line, and
so he's got.

Speaker 5 (46:39):
To overcome all this stuff.

Speaker 4 (46:40):
Now, Josh Allen might say, well, we don't have a
great defense. Does have a good running game, by the way,
so does Joe Burrow. Doesn't have a good running game,
But Joe, Josh Allen, they trade away Stefon Diggs. Yeah,
they lead the wide receiver room empty. Murray Cooper hasn't
made a huge impact. And so I'm taking away a
vote from Josh Allen whose team is having a better season,
just because Joe's having a better season and the Bengals

(47:02):
couldn't build a good team around him.

Speaker 2 (47:03):
Does it help or hurt Burrow that he has with
him a triple Crown leader?

Speaker 5 (47:08):
Probably in some hurt.

Speaker 2 (47:11):
Because if you're looking at that vote that way and
you're saying, well, Joe's doing that with Jamar, Josh Allen's
doing that with who right, the names just are different,
and I think that probably helps Josh Allen in more
ways to be doing it with less and to be
relied upon with his arms and his legs as much
as he has. Now there's really good parts of that

(47:32):
team that that also have helped Josh Allen. But it's
not like Josh Allen's playing with an elite defense. You know,
there are holes, yeah, in that defense, and he has
found a way in many in many ways to elevate
and get those wins. In a couple of those games
at the Bengals have had to go the other way.

Speaker 4 (47:49):
So, by the way, Lamar Jackson leads in touchdown percentage,
yards per attempt passer rating a justin net yards per attempt.
He also leads the NFL in yards per rushing attempt.
He's also won the two games head to head against
Joe Burrow. Yeah, and so here's here's my take on it. Okay,

(48:10):
Joe Burrow should be considered. I would have no issue
with someone who voted for him. I also have no
issue with somebody who votes for Lamar. I have no
issue with someone who votes for Josh Allen. We've kind
of made the NFL MVP a quarterback award. Sure, if
you go back, since twenty thirteen, quarterback has won it

(48:30):
every year. Here have been the records of those teams
those quarterbacks played for thirteen and four, fourteen and three,
thirteen and four, thirteen and three, fourteen and two, twelve
and four, thirteen and three, eleven and five, fifteen and one,
twelve and four and thirteen and three. It's no part
of the criteria, but we have said it's a quarterback's
award from a winning team. That means another quarterback has
to jump over a very large mountain to get the vote. Yep,

(48:53):
I'm not sure if I'm looking at this objectively that
Joe would get my vote.

Speaker 5 (48:57):
I think I would give.

Speaker 4 (48:58):
It to Alan or Lamar. But I think you're doing
the award of disservice if you don't consider Joe's candidacy.
He should be and if they win their last two games,
I would consider his candidacy whether or not they made
the postseason.

Speaker 2 (49:11):
Yeah, I would say if they win the next two
and get in, he's in that conversation. But he won't
be if they don't correct. Yeah, real quick on that.
Just looking up Jared Goff second in quarterback rating in
the NFL, second in completion percentage, second in yards, thirty
three touchdown passes, just six behind Joe Burrow, and he's

(49:33):
on a team that can very well win a Super Bowl,
and he is a third or fourth.

Speaker 4 (49:40):
After thought plus two thousand, it's crazy behind Saquon Barkley's crazy.

Speaker 5 (49:44):
Here's the larger point to me.

Speaker 4 (49:47):
The mere fact that we are talking about Joe Burrow's
MVP candidacy illustrates a how good he has been and
B how much they're in danger of wasting him.

Speaker 5 (50:00):
That's the problem.

Speaker 4 (50:01):
You might waive the flag for Joe to b MVP,
I'll merely say he deserves a place in the conversation,
and if you've voted for him, that's totally fine. But
the fact that he is having that caliber a season
on a team that is seven and eight illustrates the
shortcomings of this team and this season, at least this franchise.

Speaker 2 (50:20):
It's not the MVT Award the most viable team, it's
the most viable player. If you take Joe Burrow off
the Bengals with this roster, yeah, how many wins?

Speaker 4 (50:31):
But I think you would make the same case in Buffalo, Yes,
and I honestly I think you make the same case
in Baltimore.

Speaker 5 (50:36):
Defensively, haven't been great this year, correct, and by the.

Speaker 4 (50:39):
Way, Derrick Henry was terrific on Saturday, but down the
stretch hasn't been awesome.

Speaker 2 (50:43):
Yeah, but those teams the way constructed would win more
than the Bengals with if you take Joe Burrow off
this team.

Speaker 5 (50:49):
Sure, But if you put Joe Burrow on those teams, man, yikes.

Speaker 4 (50:54):
But I do think your point is well taken, which
Jamar Chase. Jamar Chase's season and presence on the team
is going to cause some to not consider Joe as
seriously as they would if he was doing what he's
doing with the receiver who's not as good.

Speaker 2 (51:08):
And of the three that we've mentioned, it's not even
close on who does more with less on the offensive line. Correct,
Ravens have done a good job on their offensive line. Yeah,
and as much as the weapons aren't there, Buffalo has
done a good job on their offensive line.

Speaker 5 (51:23):
And I don't know.

Speaker 4 (51:24):
And again, like if I'm looking at this objectively, and
that's what an MVP voter does, I I just have
a I have an inclination to lean more toward the
guys who won more. But I can't recall another year
where we have looked at a quarterback on a fringe team.
The Bengals might finish seven to ten, they may finish
nine to eight a fringe team, and you can legitimately

(51:46):
make a case for their candidacy.

Speaker 5 (51:48):
Yeah, I can't recall another year where we've done that.

Speaker 2 (51:50):
I mean, a team weeks ago is four to eight, right,
you know, it's just it.

Speaker 4 (51:54):
But I think by the way Joe was putting up
numbers then as good as his MVP finalists.

Speaker 2 (52:00):
I just think, you know, the point that you made
the fact that he's done this at the level he's
done it with those around him. I don't know where
this team would be without him. But it also drives
home a lot of that frustration of what they are wasting. Like,
at the end of the day, if they get to

(52:22):
nine and eight and they miss out on the playoffs,
you torture yourself with the what if game? Yeah, And
you then go into an offseason and say you cannot,
under any circumstance ever waste a season of that caliber again.

Speaker 4 (52:36):
And that's to me, that's the larger point. Joe is
having an MVP caliber season. It's probably not having an
MVP winning season, although I would understand someone who voted
for him.

Speaker 5 (52:50):
But you have a.

Speaker 4 (52:50):
Quarterback who is doing exactly what you drafted him to
do statistically and otherwise, and yet at best you're gonna
finish nine and eight as the seventh seed.

Speaker 2 (53:01):
I mean, if you keep up with what he's done
to this point, he'll finish somewhere around forty seven hundred
yards and possibly forty five touchdowns yeah, and not even
ten interceptions.

Speaker 4 (53:13):
Right, and doing it while making magic like he did
yesterday in the first touchdown, Yeah, or the hold the
ball for more than nine seconds last week against Tennessee.

Speaker 5 (53:24):
Yep, he's been unbelievable.

Speaker 4 (53:26):
It is twenty two minutes after four o'clock. I'm gonna
ask you the Chase Brown question. Oh, okay it you're
gonna be mad about it when I tell you that.
Great We're a twin peaks in Westchester. Ken Brew is here. Yes,
Drew wester Heidi, who has yet to invite. Have you
been on his podcast yet? No?

Speaker 5 (53:44):
Oh, okay.

Speaker 2 (53:44):
I worried that the hat he's wearing is cutting off
circulation to the brain.

Speaker 5 (53:48):
He did buy a youth hat to pay off his
UC Dayton.

Speaker 2 (53:51):
But he did pay off the debt.

Speaker 4 (53:55):
So I made a bet on the skyline Chili Crosstown
shootout with Bill Cunningham hot Fudge Sunday bet, and he
has yet to pay the hot Fudge Sunday. So I said,
here's what we're gonna do. Okay, you don't have to
give me the hot fudge sun This is my favorite
double or nothing if you see wins. Next year, he
has to play a round of golf at a public course.

Speaker 2 (54:17):
And we get to pick the course.

Speaker 5 (54:18):
We get to pick the course.

Speaker 4 (54:19):
Yes, he has to play a round of golf at
a public course. I've never wanted u se to win
that game more.

Speaker 3 (54:25):
No, it is, are you kidding me?

Speaker 4 (54:29):
Next year, I can't think of anything better than driving
a golf cart, like stopping off at the turn, walking
in with Willie. All right, Bill, it's get a hot
dog and a cold one. Come on, man, that I
it has. I'm gonna tell Wes Miller you think there
was pressure on you this year? Next year I could
take Bill Cunningham to a public whatever doesn't matter. We'll

(54:53):
pick the public course. We've got a firm bank on
the west side. For all I care. We're gonna make
Bill play a public course.

Speaker 5 (55:00):
Oh I love it.

Speaker 4 (55:01):
Twenty three minutes after four o'clock, he's Tony Pike on
Molegger Tony and Mo Football Show on ESPN fifteen thirty
Cincinnati Sports Station, Cincinnatis.

Speaker 1 (55:10):
This is Football in Thenetti, brought to you in part
by modern opust methods, on the official home of the Bengals,
Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty, twenty.

Speaker 4 (55:21):
Nine minutes after four o'clock. It's the fun edition of
the Tony and Mo Football Show. Here at Twin Peaks
in Westchester, it's been an afternoon of surprises.

Speaker 5 (55:30):
Man.

Speaker 4 (55:31):
Many We mentioned before that our friend ken Brew showed up.

Speaker 5 (55:36):
Yeah, Multi Hall of Fame. Is he still here?

Speaker 2 (55:39):
I think he bellied up to the bar up there.

Speaker 5 (55:41):
He brought his gifts.

Speaker 4 (55:42):
Yeah are the gifts that we got and Mike. I
hate to spoil it for you, but he brought Mike Mills,
our engineer one as well. He gifted us his bobblehead yep,
his old Channel five bobblehead. Incredible, pretty neat. I would
prefer it signed. Oh it's getting signed.

Speaker 5 (55:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (56:00):
I mean I'll bring it to the show on Saturday
if I have to to get it signed. It also
occurred to me we have another one of our coworkers
here who's kind of hanging in the back.

Speaker 5 (56:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (56:08):
Either he doesn't want his or her fellow iHeartMedia employees.

Speaker 5 (56:14):
To know that he or her is here. Also might
not want his or her other half to know that
he's right.

Speaker 2 (56:21):
I guarantee that the person we're talking about is warm.

Speaker 5 (56:24):
He's very warm.

Speaker 4 (56:26):
This that guy right now is like you pull your
clothes out of the dryer. That's what that pullover feels like.

Speaker 2 (56:31):
I think he's listening on the iHeart Radio app. That's
why he's there's been.

Speaker 5 (56:35):
On their phone.

Speaker 4 (56:35):
If he or she's on the iHeart Radio app, he's
listening to the John John.

Speaker 5 (56:41):
John John John. Who's don John John John got on today?

Speaker 2 (56:46):
Unbelievable somebody, But to update your list, We've got friends
slash good friends that have shown up. Yeah, a lot
of colleagues on the list.

Speaker 5 (56:57):
We have friends. We have good friends. We have colleagues.
You'ren't even better friend of you.

Speaker 2 (57:00):
Buy a bourbon? Yeah, buy us bourbon beer. We were gifted.
We were gifted a bourbon a couple of weeks ago.

Speaker 5 (57:07):
We're gifted whole bottles. Yeah, delightful. My favorite.

Speaker 4 (57:11):
So Chase Brown has been awesome last couple of weeks
he was again I think terrific yesterday, twenty one touches
for Chase. He has been a factor in the passing game.
He has been a factor in the run game. His
productivity and usage has made people stop talking about Joe Mixon.

(57:31):
You were talking before and have talked for a while now,
ununderstandably so about what IF's on the season. Chase Brown,
who has turned to turned into a legitimate RB one.
Do you know how many man plays Chase Brown was
on the field for the first game of the season.
I remember talking coming out of the game, why didn't

(57:52):
he play more?

Speaker 2 (57:56):
Were talked about how many snaps he played, or how
many touches he just snaps first.

Speaker 4 (58:02):
Twenty lower, fifteen higher seventeen snaps, seventeen snaps on offense.
So out of seventeen snaps and probably seven eight carries
something like that, six touches the first three games of
the season, six touches.

Speaker 5 (58:22):
Six touches.

Speaker 4 (58:22):
In the game against the Patriots, a game where Joe
Burrow was not very good offensively, they couldn't do.

Speaker 5 (58:27):
Anything, he got six touchs.

Speaker 2 (58:30):
Like six carries or just six pass and catch.

Speaker 5 (58:33):
He had three receptions, three carries, three carries.

Speaker 4 (58:37):
The second game against Kansas City, four touches, all of
them rushes, by the way, average seven point eight yards
in attempt.

Speaker 5 (58:45):
How the third game, now they scored thirty three points
in this game, but he got nine touches.

Speaker 4 (58:51):
So the first three games of the season he got
nineteen touches. He had twenty one yesterday, twenty eighth. The
week before against Tennessee, he's gotten thirty two in a
game like in the second half of the season, He's
been used a bunch, which has been awesome.

Speaker 5 (59:03):
So I ask this. I know that you can say, well,
they had Zach Moss, well, but we weren't.

Speaker 2 (59:09):
We knew weren't slobbering over the production of Zack Moss
and the only weeks the conversation was why why is
the why is this snap count like that?

Speaker 4 (59:19):
And we saw glimpses of what Chase could do last season. Yeah,
so I look, I Chase Brown. I love him. He's
a huge part of this team. Now he should be
a huge part of what they designed the offense around
next season. Like we're in they've got an RB one,
Now figure out who the the other guys at the
position are gonna be. But if you're doing what IFFs,

(59:39):
what does this offense look like earlier this season? And
what does it look like last year? If they commit
to using Chase Brown the way they have here in
the second half of this season?

Speaker 2 (59:48):
You know, I hate to even go down up, but
not only what's the offense look like? What's the record
look like if he got if he got fourteen carries
against the Patriots, I mean on the season, he's what
four four and a half yards per carry? He's nearing
after those numbers you just said, he's still near a
thousand yards rushing, just under four and a half yards

(01:00:09):
per carry, and he's got I think over three hundred
yards receiving. He's over twelve hundred total yards and barely
touched the ball in.

Speaker 4 (01:00:17):
Three weeks twelve to fifty nine. What does the number
look like of wins? Is it one more win? Is
it two more wins?

Speaker 2 (01:00:26):
Something along those lines, right, if he's playing those types
of snaps in the first few weeks, and what does
the snap count look like if Zach Moss has played
all season? Do we ever know, right, do we ever
get to unlock that because they weren't ready to unlock
that they had somehow evaluated or seen something differently than
what we were seeing on the field.

Speaker 5 (01:00:47):
So that's to me one of the what if, regardless.

Speaker 2 (01:00:50):
Of now season of a ton that's going to be one.

Speaker 5 (01:00:53):
Regardless of how the next couple of weeks unfold.

Speaker 4 (01:00:55):
And by the way, Zach Moss in the first game
actually played all right, I mean had nine He's for
forty four yards. It's obviously not huge numbers, but it's
it's not production. We're sneezing at it. But at the
same time, I think we all wanted the season knowing, Okay,
Chase Brown is maybe a little bit more you can
do with him.

Speaker 5 (01:01:11):
He's a little bit more dynamic, just.

Speaker 2 (01:01:13):
Look different when he hits the hole.

Speaker 4 (01:01:14):
Then, Zack mar And you say that to me kind
of midway through the season, and so I can't help
but wonder how does this offense look and what is
the record? Had they committed to using Chase Brown crazy
early in the season the way they have been forced
to commit to him lately.

Speaker 2 (01:01:29):
It's not like you're out of it that you're like, man,
had they just won three, like we're literally talking about,
if they had found a way to win one more game, yeah,
they would be in the driver's seat of controlling their
own destiny. Yeah, not all these things have to happen,
but just win the next two when you're in they
needed one of what six or seven that you can
have that conversation about.

Speaker 4 (01:01:50):
I want to ask you a question about the Kansas
City Chiefs when we come back. He's Tony Pike, I'm Moegger.
It's the Tony and Mo Football Show. You're starting to say,
you look for somebody else. You're scanning the crowds.

Speaker 2 (01:02:01):
Always scanning, just trying to see if always wondering who
who could be Larkin.

Speaker 5 (01:02:08):
That we work with.

Speaker 2 (01:02:10):
There's no one else we work with them showing up.

Speaker 5 (01:02:12):
To We've reached our zenith as far as that is concerned.

Speaker 2 (01:02:15):
This is easily a season in career high of people
that have shown up for a single show career.

Speaker 4 (01:02:21):
Yeah, it is twenty four away from five o'clock. This
is the Tonya Mo Football Show at Twin Peaks in
Westchester on ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 1 (01:02:33):
You've been listening to Football in the Natti on the
official home of the Bengals, Cincinnatis, ESPN fifteen thirty. The
Bengals Battle of the Broncos coverage starts Saturday at noon
on the ESPN fifteen thirty, the Official Home of the Bengals.

Speaker 5 (01:02:50):
On the Tonia Mo Football.

Speaker 4 (01:02:51):
Show on ESPN fifteen thirty Sports Sevelines in the service
of Kelsey Shepherdleigh Home of Lifetime Howard Graham.

Speaker 5 (01:02:57):
Protection and guarantee.

Speaker 4 (01:02:58):
Credit approval from there family to yours for life Kelsey
chef dot Com. Bengals have signed Isaiah Thomas to the
active roster defensive end Logan Woodside cut Bengals Broncos Saturday,
excuse me for thirty on ESPN fifteen thirty. Pre game
coverage begins at noon on Saturday. Monday Night Football Tonight,

(01:03:20):
Packers and Saints on ESPN fifteen thirty. College Basketball, you
see seventeenth in both major polls. Kentucky tenth, Mark Pope
Show Tonight at six on ESPN fifteen thirty. Hockey this evening,
the Blue Jackets skate at Montreal. So we're all rooting
this week man for the Pittsburgh Steelers.

Speaker 2 (01:03:40):
That's tough for a lot of folks.

Speaker 4 (01:03:41):
This is something I'm gonna have to take a couple
of days to reconcile myself with. Steelers play Kansas City
on Christmas Day, the one of the two Netflix games.

Speaker 5 (01:03:51):
I can't wait to watch that streaming and the eighty
eight person pre and post game show. YEP.

Speaker 4 (01:03:57):
If Kansas City wins, they wrap up the one seed
and theoretically could rest all of their key players in
their final game of the season, which is against the
Denver Broncos. If the Bengals beat Denver, they still need
to win their last game, and they need Denver to
lose and obviously they need other things. I want to
ask you about this though, from Kansas City's perspective. So

(01:04:18):
let's say they get the one and they can rest
guys for the final game. The divisional round begins on
January eighteenth, continues on the nineteenth, so the Chiefs.

Speaker 5 (01:04:29):
Would play one of those two days.

Speaker 4 (01:04:31):
Their most recent game that they would have played their
main guys would have been on Christmas.

Speaker 5 (01:04:36):
That's more than three weeks. Now.

Speaker 4 (01:04:39):
I understand resting players if you have if you don't
have a buye, I understand resting them if you do
have a buye. But if there's that much time between
games from December twenty fifth and again there is a
game they play, but let's just talk. Let's just make
it about Patrick Mahomes. Mahomes would have gone from December
twenty fifth to possibly January nineteenth without playing.

Speaker 5 (01:04:59):
Is that something thing you want if you were Andy Reid?

Speaker 4 (01:05:01):
No.

Speaker 5 (01:05:02):
I you know, we brushed over this yesterday.

Speaker 2 (01:05:05):
The more I look at it, the more I'm not
so certain, even if they do have everything wrapped up
that they rest everybody like I look at I look
at the way that the Chiefs have done it this year.
Defense has been really good.

Speaker 5 (01:05:26):
Huh.

Speaker 2 (01:05:27):
Offensively, nothing has really come easy to them. They lose
Pacheco for much of the year. He's back, but he's
not back into form yet.

Speaker 5 (01:05:36):
I like what I saw from Hollywood Brown.

Speaker 2 (01:05:38):
Yeah, so you get Hollywood Brown back yesterday or Saturday today.
You added DeAndre Hopkins during the season. The offense, I
think the term clunky has been used a lot. If
you haven't excelled offensively, are you willing to sit your
offense for three weeks and then just assume that they
pick it back up? Because if I'm Kansas, you're grateful

(01:06:01):
for the position you're in, but you also have to
understand you want to be peeking and playing your best
at the right time.

Speaker 5 (01:06:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:06:08):
I don't know many teams out there that would just
pick up where they left off if they sit for
three weeks, and which makes them playing in Denver in
the final week of the season make more sense?

Speaker 4 (01:06:19):
It does, And I mean you, I said this to
you guys yesterday. Andy Reid has a responsibility to his team.
The responsibility isn't to the Bengals or anybody else. I
think it's best for his team if he plays some
of his guys now.

Speaker 2 (01:06:35):
But I also don't think it's best for his team.
If he plays his guys, they win and the Bengals
get in no doubt.

Speaker 4 (01:06:42):
So there's a part of me that goes, okay. If
I'm Andy Reid, I want to play some of my guys,
But do I want to play him sixty five snaps?
Do I want my homes out there for four quarters?
Do I want Kelsey at his advanced age out there
for the entire game? Or do I just want those
guys to play football in a vanilla game plan where

(01:07:04):
if we lose cool that means I don't have to
encounter Joe Burrow down the road to say what you
want about the Bengals on defense. If I am any
one of those teams and you're giving me the choice
of Joe Burrow or bow Knicks or Anthony Richardson or
two and tena Iloa, it ain't Joe Burrow, No, and
that that holds true for any of those teams. So

(01:07:26):
if I'm Andy Reid, I'm trying to strike a balancing act.
I'm gonna look at that game, and again, this may
be a move point depends on depending on what happens
on Christmas Day. I want to play guys. I'm not
going three and a half weeks without playing key guys.
I want to play them, but I'm still not sure
I really want to win that football game.

Speaker 2 (01:07:44):
And so that is I think it's to a sense
what the Browns did yesterday the opposite, right. I don't
think the Browns. I don't think they played to lose,
but their personnel wasn't the best that they could have
thrown out there. Right, Let's be honest, Like Jerry Judy
got three.

Speaker 5 (01:07:58):
Targets, Thompson does not give them the best chance to win.

Speaker 2 (01:08:02):
Correct, no matter what you want to sell everyone on.
So you know, And there's also the caveat their backup
quarterback is a former Super Bowl winner. Sure, I mean,
it's not like Carson Wentz as a bum, right, so
I get like he's been banged up. Let's get Mahomes
in for a half, Kelsey and for a half. The
other guys need to play. Can they still win at
Denver with Wentz and not offense and defense?

Speaker 5 (01:08:25):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (01:08:25):
Sure, But it comes down to the balancing act of
you don't want to give guys three and a half
weeks off, but in doing so, would you open the
door for Joe Burrow and company to get in the playoffs.

Speaker 4 (01:08:37):
Because I could. If I'm a Cheese fan, I'm taking
the long view. We've wrapped up the one seed, all right?
Who can we eliminate before the playoffs start?

Speaker 5 (01:08:45):
Yep?

Speaker 4 (01:08:46):
Right, be worried about eliminating the Colts. That's what the
playoffs are all about, right? Who gets eliminated? Who could
I eliminate? Could I help eliminate the Bengals? The team
that has beating us an Arrowhead with a team that
came to Arrowhead this year and nearly beat them. Sorry,
I mean, if I'm a Chiefs fan, I'm looking at
it going, dude, let's use Week eighteen to help eliminate

(01:09:08):
the Bengals. And that means, I hate to say it,
getting my guys some gameplay, but kind of laying down
against Denver.

Speaker 2 (01:09:16):
It's also like, you know, you want Anthony Richardson coming
in Narrowhead. Bo Knicks is a rookie in the playoffs
coming into Arrowhead, a quarterback that I will have played twice.
Do you want the Dolphins coming in when it's gonna
be twenty degrees?

Speaker 4 (01:09:30):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:09:32):
The team, the organization, the fan base, if they're answering
the question. Honestly, nobody wants the Bengals to be the
team that comes in, but.

Speaker 4 (01:09:38):
I think that's accurate, which makes this even harder to navigate, right,
because so much of my thought was I'm more concerned
about the Chiefs, and I'm you'd want it, Okay, can
the Texans beat him?

Speaker 2 (01:09:53):
And say what you want that Texan? That game was
over when Tankdlle got hurt. I've never seen a player.

Speaker 5 (01:09:58):
Yeah that took on as hard as c J.

Speaker 2 (01:10:01):
Stroud took that. You knew that game was over. Now,
maybe Pittsburgh losing to Baltimore makes this more important to
Pittsburgh to say we can't fall off here at the
end and then go Olympian like this is important as
hell to the Pittsburgh Steelers.

Speaker 4 (01:10:15):
Oh, they have I mean they'll have something on the line. Correct,
They'll have something on the line. So the Bengals will
have they have someone the line Saturday at home.

Speaker 5 (01:10:22):
No, no Wednesday.

Speaker 4 (01:10:23):
So we look at this week and tend to be
narrow and yeah, Saturday is going to have a great
playoff atmosphere, and the Bengals can make Week eighteen matter.
But there's still a difficulty of going to Pittsburgh and
beating a team that offensively did whatever it want against you.
You've got to beat them. And then you have to
hope for the Kansas City Chiefs. And by the way,

(01:10:44):
the first time they played, they get a block field
goal at the end at Arrowhead Stadium. Denver was the
bad team that day.

Speaker 5 (01:10:50):
Yep. Also, you need help from the teams that play
Miami in Indianapolis.

Speaker 2 (01:10:54):
If you seeded the teams that are still technically alive,
I don't want to say the Bengals Miami would be
second because they're a different team with Tua Sure, Anthony
Rogarister to bow Nicks at this point in their careers,
I'm not concerned about in the playoffs.

Speaker 4 (01:11:08):
Yeah, I give the slight nod to Sean Payton, but
I'm with you. I just if you said, I believe
to a Chiefs fan, a Bills fan, a Steelers fan,
a Ravens fan, or a Chargers fan. Because the LA
is effectively in in in a win and move on situation,

(01:11:31):
you could play Cincinnati Denver in the Miami.

Speaker 5 (01:11:36):
Yeah, rank them.

Speaker 4 (01:11:37):
One through four in order of who would you least
want to play down to who would you want to
play for one Bengals, and I understand their deficiencies. There's
the reason why they're seven to eight. Their defense stinks.
Does anybody want to play Joe Burrow right now in
a game where you have to win? I cannot imagine
the answer is yes. So I think how Kansas City
handles that game if it does mean something to the Bengals,

(01:12:00):
I think how Kansas City handles that game could be fascinating.

Speaker 5 (01:12:04):
Yeah, because if.

Speaker 4 (01:12:05):
I'm Andy Reid, I want my main players getting some
action in a game. Yeah, between Christmas and when the
divisional runs.

Speaker 2 (01:12:14):
And yesterday I thought the Patriots at a point we're
gonna beat the Bills.

Speaker 5 (01:12:17):
That would have made it. Now what happens right, you know?

Speaker 2 (01:12:20):
With you know, then you could have maybe do you
rest a game this week, get healthy and then play
against you know, the final regular season game. There's just
there's a lot that goes on. Unfortunately for the Bengals,
their deficiencies early in the season have them in a
moment where they can't control their own.

Speaker 5 (01:12:36):
Desk, and you know, it's a mood point if Pittsburgh
does what it needs to do.

Speaker 4 (01:12:39):
But boy, the shine has come off the Steelers and
Russell Wilson very quickly.

Speaker 2 (01:12:44):
Very very quickly, didn't show up against the Eagles. The
costly turnover last night from Russell Wilson when they had
something moving. They have no passing attack. When George Pickens
is not in a game.

Speaker 4 (01:12:55):
Maybe George Pickens should be MVP. Might be team stinks
without them. He stakes, and it feels like they peaked early. Yeah,
their defense looks banged up, they look tired. They got
guys that are playing hurt.

Speaker 5 (01:13:07):
TJ.

Speaker 2 (01:13:08):
Watts not one hundred percent. It feels like a team
that a couple of weeks ago. You'd feel good. If
the playoffs are starting right now in Pittsburgh, You're like, what,
we need to get something out of these next two weeks.

Speaker 4 (01:13:19):
Do you know what?

Speaker 5 (01:13:19):
My belief is?

Speaker 4 (01:13:21):
They're the team negatively impacted by hard knocks. Really, they've
never been featured, They've always resisted it. Tomlin obviously hates it.
I think in a weird way, there's something about having
to do this that has negatively impacted them.

Speaker 2 (01:13:40):
Yeah, I mean it looks I mean, you could you
could look back to, you know, the snow Globe game
where they lost to the Browns, but that equals game,
and that Baltimore game, and I get granted both were
on the road. That's been a completely different team.

Speaker 5 (01:13:54):
That's that's shown up by the way I just made
up that theory. I like it.

Speaker 2 (01:13:58):
You sounded like you brew that up, fought it out.
I'm in early this morning.

Speaker 5 (01:14:01):
The show prep, Yeah, I did. You were you were
there early? It was It was easy to get show
prepped on the day. This time of the year, it is.

Speaker 4 (01:14:11):
It's eight away from five o'clock. We're here at Twin
Peaks in Westchester untill six. Power Hour is coming up.
Tony and Mo Football Show on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati
Sports Stations.

Speaker 1 (01:14:26):
Time to get to business.

Speaker 3 (01:14:27):
Spikes the ball in the back of the.

Speaker 1 (01:14:30):
Outside so borrowing his big bad Bengals put it pull
on the line when they face Spoon, Nicks and his
Broncos have a hot chops up to the ground. Can
the Orange and Black break these.

Speaker 3 (01:14:40):
Bronx executed to perfection?

Speaker 1 (01:14:43):
Wind out when you get the coral from the dangerous
stand Horde at Mighty gave Leper Covered starts Saturday at
noon on ESPN fifteen thirty, the official home of the Bengals.

Speaker 5 (01:14:56):
Football Show with Tony Pike. Wait get some people up
in here.

Speaker 4 (01:15:02):
We are.

Speaker 5 (01:15:04):
Got a time.

Speaker 4 (01:15:05):
My goodness, we are Sea hour, west Chester location. This
is the power hour, the witching hour. This is one
might argue the hour that's going to decide or I
don't know. We're here till six. We've got an hour
to go. It's Christmas Eve Eve. Everybody's in a festive mood.
Bengals win yesterday. You could still see ken Ken still here.

(01:15:27):
Ken is at the bar over there, he's bellied up.
You could still come meet ken Brew, the Great ken Brew.
Did he bring more bobbleheads with him?

Speaker 2 (01:15:34):
That's a good question. Does he carry him in the
car with him?

Speaker 4 (01:15:37):
My guess is yes, Yeah, Ken is here at the
Tween Peaks in Westchester, hanging out. And if you're looking
for if you're thinking, man, I'd like to watch the
final ten minutes of the famous Idaho Potato Bowl.

Speaker 5 (01:15:48):
Yeah, they've got it on you.

Speaker 4 (01:15:49):
One tie game between Fresno State and Northern Illinois, the
one team that beat Notre Dame this year. So you
can watch that, then stick around for Monday Night football. Remember,
back early in the season, we all thought the Saints
were like the next version of the ninety nine Rams. Yeah,
but fourteen and a half point talks against Green Beasty.

Speaker 2 (01:16:05):
With their coach did though, took them into the ice chest.

Speaker 5 (01:16:08):
I saw they practiced in.

Speaker 4 (01:16:09):
They went over calls in the ice chest. Yeah, very
very gimmicky to get ready for Lambow.

Speaker 5 (01:16:14):
I like it.

Speaker 4 (01:16:14):
So you can watch that game tonight or just have
dinner post up, get a beer. We've talked extensively about
the bourbon selection here. Yeah, and we're having a good
time here until six o'clock on a victory Monday day
after the Bengals beat the Denver Broncos to keep their
slim playoff hopes alive.

Speaker 5 (01:16:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:16:34):
I mean at this point, you're you're you're literally living
week to week.

Speaker 5 (01:16:38):
Win this week, yeah, it's like being in the playoffs.

Speaker 2 (01:16:41):
You'll you'll have a chance to play a meaningful football
game in week eighteen. Now, again, what other teams do.
We're gonna go a long way in that. But regardless
of whatever happens this weekend, if you win, you still
get to play a meaningful game. You're not gonna be eliminated, right,
you still get to play a meaningful game the following.

Speaker 5 (01:17:00):
Give me a couple of keys to beating the Broncos.
You you know, you and I did.

Speaker 2 (01:17:07):
The pregame show before the Chargers game and we were
watching Denver play Atlanta. Yeah, and if you allow bow
Knicks to get comfortable at all, that offense becomes very
hard to beat, especially when Sean Payton gets into a rhythm.
What we've seen in the last couple of weeks is
after the scripted plays, we've seen Bonnicks look more like

(01:17:29):
a rookie quarterback. And what causes that is there's more
film out on bo Knicks now. There's more film on
his strengths and there's more film on his weaknesses. And
for a rookie quarterback, this is when you start to
hit that wall, the rookie wall, you know you think
of Oregon last year. Long season goes right into training,

(01:17:49):
right into the Combine, right into Pro Days, right into
the draft, rookie minie camp. All of a sudden, you
get this late in the season. Mentally, you're exhausted. Physically,
you're exhausted, and you don't have time to adjust how
you play in what you do. That's the offseason, right,
So they rely now a lot more on getting into

(01:18:10):
that rhythm. And if defensively you can take them out
or make him uncomfortable, you have a chance. I know
their defenses is good. I didn't watch that defense last
Thursday and think, oh Man, Bengals are in trouble. No,
because I don't feel like that against any defense with
the Bengals.

Speaker 4 (01:18:23):
I think the two things that I thought about in
watching that game play out the way it did was
number one, Denver very undisciplined, especially on defense with all
the penalties they had against the Chargers.

Speaker 5 (01:18:35):
And number two, they had no answer for Ladd McConkey man.

Speaker 4 (01:18:40):
Now, Ladd McConkie's a nice rookie receiver, looks like he's
gonna have a good career.

Speaker 5 (01:18:44):
Good pick by the Chargers. It's not Jamar Chase, Nope.

Speaker 4 (01:18:47):
So they didn't put certan the corner on him in
that game on Thursday. I've got to think they will
when they play the Bengals against their number one guy
in Jamar Chase.

Speaker 5 (01:18:56):
But I'm watching that on Thursday thinking.

Speaker 4 (01:18:59):
If you can can't slow down Lad McConkie and you're
gonna commit a lot of penalties, you are in trouble
against the Cincinnati offense.

Speaker 2 (01:19:05):
I will say during that scripted portion, they were unstoppable.
I started mentally telling myself, maybe the Chargers lose three
in a row because they looked that good. But you
could tell when the script ended they just couldn't make
the endgame adjustments the.

Speaker 5 (01:19:21):
Chargers got going offensively.

Speaker 2 (01:19:23):
I just I really do think that it's a very
winnable game for the Cincinnati Bengals, and albeit a great
rookie season, I think he's going to be a very
good quarterback. I think you're hitting a little bit of
that rookie wall.

Speaker 5 (01:19:38):
With bo Nicks.

Speaker 4 (01:19:38):
Yeah, Miami has to lose one of their last two
at Cleveland at the Jets.

Speaker 2 (01:19:46):
I worry about both those teams how much they want
to win the game. But it is going to be,
you know, a four o'clock start. I think this upcoming
weekend in Cleveland, that'll be cold. It'll be cold in
New York. Historically, Miami doesn't play well in those settings.
So I'm not lost for hope that the Dolphins still

(01:20:07):
trip up in one of those two.

Speaker 4 (01:20:10):
Indianapolis has to play a road game against the Giants,
who look like the worst team in football, and then
they wrap up at home against the Jacksonville Jaguars.

Speaker 2 (01:20:21):
Well, Doug Peters is probably coaching for his job in
that game, so they'll they'll be motivated with Mac Jones
at quarterback in that one. I just I think Indy
can show and put up thirty eight points. I also
think they can go into a game in score seven.

Speaker 5 (01:20:33):
You know the thing with the Colts. If I'm a
Colts fan, I'm thinking about that.

Speaker 4 (01:20:36):
You know, Jonathan Taylor bounced back and had a great
game yesterday, scored the touchdown where he ran into the tunnel.
But I'm going, boy, if all boy doesn't drop the
ball going into the end zone, yeah, very good chance
they win that game. They were the better team for
two and a half quarters. And then how are we
framing this if they win that football game. I think
the team that is more likely to lose one is Miami.

(01:20:58):
I have a hard time believing, and I'm almost trying
to maybe jinx it. I have a hard time believing
Indy's gonna lose to either the Giants or the Giants.

Speaker 2 (01:21:08):
Yeah, I hope, so, I mean we need him to.
I mean, what is so well? I guess at start,
were you surprised? Were you surprised to see the Bengals
is a three and a half point favorite this week. No,
I wasn't either, No, not at all from a cult standpoint.
They're an eight point road favorite that's coming off a

(01:21:29):
week where they were at home as a three and
a half point favorite against the Titans, and the Titans stink. Yeah,
I think that shows you how bad the Giants are
right now. I think that's a little bit alarming if
you're a fan of the Bengals hoping that one of
those teams slip up.

Speaker 5 (01:21:42):
Yeah, and then.

Speaker 2 (01:21:43):
Dolphins are six and a half point favorite, so nearly
a touchdown as well on the road in Cleveland.

Speaker 4 (01:21:49):
I think what's interesting about the Bengals. You know, we
talked about like them in the postseason, So they're favored
at home and should be. I was gonna guess anywhere
from a two and a half to a three and
a half point favorite. So three and a half point
favorites and home against a team that right now is
in the postseason. This to me, and I'm sure somebody
out there somewhere has maybe done this exercise if we

(01:22:11):
were talking about the Bengals in the playoff here. So
let's say they were the seven and they go to Buffalo,
what would the spread be touchdown th underdog, right, probably
versus Denver, New England or Miami. I bet you the
Bengals would have would get the least amount of points
compared to those other teams.

Speaker 2 (01:22:31):
You know, I thought that a little bit the College
Football playoff the first round. In my mind, I'm like, Okay,
SMU at Penn State. What if that's BAM at Penn State?

Speaker 5 (01:22:40):
Right?

Speaker 2 (01:22:40):
You know how much different does that spread? Look, we're
gonna spend some time on that here, and I certainly
think that you would see a little bit of that
as well.

Speaker 5 (01:22:48):
What what do you have to say?

Speaker 2 (01:22:49):
Because I know I'm frustrated with it. I get people
that talk to me about it. I get people that
that tweet about it. Well, if if the Bengals do
this and don't make the playoffs, they're just wasting the
end of the season and they're getting a worst draft pick.
It's one of the mostnoxious.

Speaker 5 (01:23:06):
I can't do it. It drives me insane.

Speaker 2 (01:23:09):
The folks that say, well they should have this is
all for nothing, and now they're just gonna get a
worst draft pick and they can't draft anyway, so this
is gonna ruin it. They should have just tanked it's
the worst argument I've ever heard in the history of sports.

Speaker 5 (01:23:22):
Two things about this. Number One, what do you expect
the players to do? Right? Not try? Wouldn't that be
a bigger issue if the players were suddenly not trying? Correct?

Speaker 4 (01:23:32):
I do not expect the players to go yeah, you know,
tell you what they could. They could get a higher
draft choice and maybe replace me if I don't try,
So the players aren't gonna do that.

Speaker 5 (01:23:43):
Number Two, Isn't the fun part of sports? The games?

Speaker 2 (01:23:47):
Yes, it's supposed to be that everyone counts, Like, isn't
that the part we.

Speaker 5 (01:23:52):
Love most about football?

Speaker 4 (01:23:54):
The you know, the actual games? And aren't the games
better when your team wins that? No?

Speaker 5 (01:23:59):
Look, man, I was like most others.

Speaker 4 (01:24:03):
December twenty second, twenty nineteen, Bengals played the Dolphins lost.

Speaker 5 (01:24:07):
I wanted them to lose that game because I wanted
Joe Burrow. But beyond that, like they have a chance
they isn't Isn't isn't.

Speaker 4 (01:24:18):
The fun part? The unknown? Isn't the fun part, the
you know what? Anything can happen. There are upsets the
end of that week, one like this franchise, which has
spent most of its existence not even coming close to
competing for playoff spots. Now we're gonna turn up our
nose at them maybe making it, and then who knows

(01:24:39):
what happens from there. I'm sorry, man, I said this
to you guys yesterday. I'll double down on it. I
cannot relate to that point of view. I cannot relate
to looking at these games through the lens of they're
just wasting their time. It would be better if they lost.
Like the last three weeks have been enjoyable. They haven't

(01:25:01):
been perfect. They certainly weren't against Tennessee. They weren't yesterday.
God knows, they nearly lost to the Cowboys. But to me,
and this is just me, the fun part of sports
are the games, and I enjoy it when the team
that I like wins those games, especially when there's meaning
attached to that.

Speaker 2 (01:25:20):
Yeah, I just I can't fathom the conversation of worrying
about draft picks and not trying to win a football game.

Speaker 4 (01:25:26):
And look, chances are they're not gonna make it. Like
I'm aware of the math, chances are they're not gonna
make it. But you mean to tell me it wouldn't
be a blast to talk about the Bengals going to
Buffalo or somewhere else for Week one, it'd be awesome. Yep,
you mean to tell me that after being four and eight,
this team going to the playoffs with five straight wins

(01:25:49):
and Joe Burrow having an MVP caliber season wouldn't be
a fun story to talk about.

Speaker 5 (01:25:54):
Ye Like, I just that other point of view to
me is just miserable. I can relate to it. I
never will relate to it.

Speaker 4 (01:26:03):
And so now, look, they lose this Sunday and then
drop one of the Steelers, I'm not gonna care, and
I'll look at it from that standpoint and go, Okay,
maybe they improve their draft positioning slightly, but now they.

Speaker 5 (01:26:15):
Do have a chance.

Speaker 2 (01:26:16):
There's a difference.

Speaker 5 (01:26:17):
The game on Saturday is gonna be a blast.

Speaker 2 (01:26:19):
And there's a difference.

Speaker 5 (01:26:21):
If you lose Saturday, then I don't play.

Speaker 2 (01:26:24):
Borrow next time, not even close. Like that's a smart decision, right,
But I'm not even if he's not playing, I'm not saying, well,
they're just gonna lose. Like you still show up because
it's a football game.

Speaker 4 (01:26:33):
So your favorite team is playing the Browns yesterday, and
what are you doing? You're up and Miles Garrett like
how do you what are you doing there? Hey, I'm
a Bengals fan and they have something to play for,
but I want the Browns to beat him. So Dorian
Thompson Robinson have a day like. I'm sorry, man, I
cannot relate to that.

Speaker 5 (01:26:51):
I cannot.

Speaker 4 (01:26:52):
I don't understand it. I don't relate to it. And
I think that is a miserable point of view.

Speaker 2 (01:26:57):
Yeah, I mean that would be like you in two
thousand and four going to the Planes Capital fort Worth
Bowl on this night.

Speaker 5 (01:27:05):
Uh huh?

Speaker 2 (01:27:06):
Two thousand and four, I was there Fort Worth Bowl,
ice and snow. Yes, you think we didn't want to
win that game? You guys did thirty four to sixteen.

Speaker 5 (01:27:13):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (01:27:14):
Contributed to that win.

Speaker 5 (01:27:16):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:27:17):
I gave Geno Goduli my hand war war at halftime.

Speaker 5 (01:27:20):
Gino was the MVP of that.

Speaker 2 (01:27:21):
Guess we were so unprepared for snow and ice in
Fort Worth, Texas. H huh that only a handful of players.
I was one packed their own cold weather gear and
at halftime Gino said, that's mine.

Speaker 5 (01:27:34):
Did I think I had something to do with Did
Gino need that because he still had a broken hand? Yep?
I had none to do with that. One. Do you
know so that you guys played in the fort Worth Bowl.

Speaker 4 (01:27:48):
It was literally the coldest December twenty third in fort
Worth's last Dallas history.

Speaker 5 (01:27:55):
The pipes in the press box froze. You guys did
win the game.

Speaker 4 (01:28:00):
Dan Horde and I flew back commercial after the game
or the death. The next day, Christmas Eve, we had
to connect in Memphis. There had been an ice storm
blanketing like the entire Midwest. They canceled all the flights, YEP,
closed the airport. Dan Horde and I were in the
rental car line and they were out of rental cars.

Speaker 5 (01:28:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:28:21):
Unfortunately, three folks recognized him man and on Christmas Eve
drove us back in an ice storm to Cincinnati.

Speaker 5 (01:28:29):
Got back at one o'clock in the morning.

Speaker 2 (01:28:30):
As a collegiate athlete, the fort Worth Bowl was my
scariest moment in college.

Speaker 5 (01:28:37):
Yeah, so after the game.

Speaker 2 (01:28:38):
I was a great shirt that year, right, So I
didn't do anything during the season, but then I get
to tag along for the bowl game. I'm not going
to say who I was rooming with, but I was
rooming with a player that was more impactful to the
game than I was. And after the game, everyone's going
out and you know, in Fort Worth and I'm like, nah,
it's been twenty years. Say the name he played at Elder.

(01:28:58):
He's a running back from Elder Bradley laughing. So after
the game, everyone's going out and I'm like, no, because
I don't even know. They don't even know who I am.
The only reason that's gonna shine a light isn't a
poor one. If I get in trouble, I'm gonna hang
in the room. I packed up, I went to sleep,
I set the alarm. He comes in at what had

(01:29:21):
to be three in the morning, and he takes my
mattress and just flips me out of bed. And I like,
as I'm like coming to I'm rolling out of bed
like the dream where you're falling that was in real life.
And I'm like stunned. And now I'm like, all right,
he's at a point where we're not on the same level.

(01:29:42):
I'm like, all right, man, I got a head to.

Speaker 5 (01:29:44):
Bed, same level like as a player everything.

Speaker 2 (01:29:50):
So we go back to bed. He eventually goes to
bed and next thing you know, it's banging on the door.
Here comes the morning. Unbew to me. When he flipped
me out of the bed, the alarm clock came out
of the wall. So we have now missed the team bus.
And it is Mark D'Antonio at the door, head coach himself,

(01:30:12):
head coaches at the door, right, and I answer, what's
going on? Don't pay you know, you guys are now
fifteen minutes late to the bus. What's going on? And
thank god he could see around me that, you know,
Bradley was still in bed and I don't think was
even clothed fully at the time. And my stuff's neatly

(01:30:33):
packed and his stuff just all over, so he's he
I think he realized what was going on, right, and
very angrily sent me to the bus. And then about
ten minutes later Bradley made the walk to the bus,
and that was not as good of a walk as
I made. I was so scared when I opened the door, like,
there's the head coach. My one goal at this game
is just don't even be seen.

Speaker 5 (01:30:54):
Did you get your cold weather stuff back? No? No?

Speaker 2 (01:30:57):
Like like it was like, hey, what's your goal? Don't
be noticed?

Speaker 5 (01:31:01):
Right?

Speaker 2 (01:31:02):
And I'm one of the guys that's late for the
bus because I got flipped out of bed.

Speaker 5 (01:31:05):
At three fort worth. Stay warm, for you have nobody
mentioned your name and we're good. Nope.

Speaker 2 (01:31:11):
Wow, that's probably why I never got a chance on
the mark. That's so bad.

Speaker 5 (01:31:17):
I'm impressed with the head coach doing a check like that.
Typically that's I don't think it was a check.

Speaker 4 (01:31:21):
I delegate coach that was ready to get the hell
out of there, delegated to get to the plane staff
member or something.

Speaker 5 (01:31:27):
I don't think many. I was rooting for you guys
in the four.

Speaker 2 (01:31:30):
Yeah, you didn't want us to lose, so that you know,
changes had to be made.

Speaker 4 (01:31:34):
I wanted a quick game, man, I wanted That was
two thousand and four, that was the last one going
into the Big East. Yeah, so my thought was like, man,
this is awesome. Don't have to go to bull games
like this again. And then two years later International Bowl, Well, no, no.

Speaker 2 (01:31:46):
No, no, International Bowl. There's a lot of national champions,
there's not many international chances.

Speaker 5 (01:31:51):
Twenty four over Western Michigan.

Speaker 2 (01:31:53):
International Wheeler Birmingham Papa John.

Speaker 5 (01:31:56):
Papa do the following year, Yeah, I was there for
that one.

Speaker 2 (01:31:59):
That was on all the nobody bolls correct struggled.

Speaker 5 (01:32:04):
In the other ones.

Speaker 4 (01:32:05):
It is twenty three minutes after five o'clock. We'll talk
about this weekend's college football playoff games and the reaction
to them.

Speaker 5 (01:32:11):
Coming up.

Speaker 4 (01:32:12):
Tony and Mo Football Show at Twin Peaks in Westchester
on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station Vengals.

Speaker 1 (01:32:19):
This is football in Thennetti, run to you in part
by blood Light and by Skyline Shilly on the official
home of the Bengals, Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty Alight.

Speaker 5 (01:32:31):
Twenty eight minutes after five.

Speaker 4 (01:32:32):
This is ESPN fifteen thirty the Tonian moul Football Though
at Twin Peaks in Westchester.

Speaker 5 (01:32:39):
We are here till six o'clock. We we went along
that last segment so quickly.

Speaker 4 (01:32:45):
Here a couple of things, and then we'll spend a
few minutes on the college football playoff on the other
side of the break. Saturday could be the final home
game for t Higgins. Could also be the final home
game for bj Hill, Von Dell, and Mike Hilton.

Speaker 5 (01:32:59):
Obviously, each of the those players has had a lot
to do with the Bengals.

Speaker 4 (01:33:02):
Yeah, success Vaughn coming back this season made maybe the
play of the game. Honestly, at least from a defensive perspective,
on Cleveland's opening drive. He's kind of a separate conversation
BJ von Mike do you have a first to see
any of those guys in Bengals uniforms in twenty twenty five.

Speaker 2 (01:33:20):
I think BJ Hills made some steps twenty nine years
old and age helps him out more so than Hilton
and Von Bell, even though Hilton's played pretty well down
the stretch. And I think I've always thought BJ Hill,
if it's a role piece, can help if he's relied
on as the guy or one of these starts. I
don't think he's there yet, but I think if it's

(01:33:42):
a rotational piece, I think he can have an impact
for the team. Yeah, but he's not one of my starting.

Speaker 5 (01:33:48):
Eleven fair.

Speaker 2 (01:33:52):
Love von Bell ready to go, Yeah, especially with how
well Jordan Battles played.

Speaker 4 (01:33:56):
Like Mike Hilton, I'm okay moving on from him, but
those are big shoes to replace.

Speaker 5 (01:34:04):
Mike.

Speaker 2 (01:34:04):
I think he provides so much more than just what's
on the field. Yeah, yeah, film the mental side game
plan and he has seen everything at point yep and
you can see times too where he's in the right
spot and not making the play. Sure where it's just
getting older. Yeah, you know, but he he possesses such

(01:34:25):
a value because of his knowledge of everything else and
doing it for such a long period of time, and
doing it in the AFC North right for a long
period of time.

Speaker 5 (01:34:32):
Yeah, all right. College football playoff is down to the quarterfinals.

Speaker 4 (01:34:37):
We'll talk about this weekend's game and the reaction to
what happened in this weekend's games when we come back.
Tonyamo Football showed twin Peaks Westchester, ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati
Sports Station.

Speaker 1 (01:34:50):
You've been listening to football in thenetti on the official
home of the Bengals Cincinnatis, ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 3 (01:34:58):
Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty eight Tails.

Speaker 1 (01:35:02):
Time to get to business.

Speaker 3 (01:35:04):
Who spikes the ball in the back of the oxide.

Speaker 1 (01:35:07):
Joe burrowing his big bad Bengals put it pull on
the line when they face Phone Nicks and his Broncos
Tamahawk chops up to the ground. Can the Orange and
Black break these.

Speaker 3 (01:35:17):
Bronx executed too perfect? Shind out?

Speaker 1 (01:35:20):
When you get the goal from the dangerous Dan Horde
at Mighty Dave Leffa. Coverage starts Saturday at noon on
ESPN fifteen thirty Official All of the Bengals.

Speaker 4 (01:35:32):
All Right Sports Headlines service on Kelsey's chevrolete off lifetime
power training, protection.

Speaker 5 (01:35:39):
And guarantee credit approval on DMC.

Speaker 4 (01:35:45):
From their family viewers for life kelseyshev dot Com. Bengals
signed Isaiah Thomas, not either of the two basketball players,
but the defensive end to the active roster Logan Woodside
has been cut. Bengals Broncos Sunday for sum Sorry Saturday
thirty games Alive on ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 5 (01:36:03):
We go on the airth noon. How about that, You
me Kenny Brew and this bobblehead and you bring the
biblehead with you.

Speaker 2 (01:36:10):
I'm gonna have him sign it. That's a good call there.

Speaker 4 (01:36:12):
Monday Night Football Tonight Packers and Saints on ESPN fifteen thirty.
College Hoops you see is seventeenth in both major polls.
Kentucky is tenth. Mark Pope Show, The Mark Pope Show
Tonight at six on ESPN fifteen thirty. Kentucky coming off
that loss in New York on Saturday against Ohio State,
which was preceded by kind of a I hate to

(01:36:34):
say it, mccronin special oh Ucla. So it really was
they came meltown. Was in the exact script we've seen
it so many times. I hate to say, because I
root for Mick and I root for UCLA, but I've
unfortunately I've.

Speaker 2 (01:36:49):
The most uncomfortable I would be watching a team with
a big lead.

Speaker 4 (01:36:53):
Yes, yes, there is something about them, and it's it's
happened at UCLA in the NCAA tournament where they've got
what you would think is a comfortable lead. Yeah, and
there's always a point in it where you're like, this
isn't gonna go well.

Speaker 5 (01:37:07):
Certainly happened to UC in a tournament game.

Speaker 4 (01:37:09):
Sure did hockey Tonight, Jackets and Canadians in Montreal College
Football playoffs four games, none of them necessarily good force thinkers.

Speaker 5 (01:37:21):
Here's what I don't like.

Speaker 4 (01:37:23):
I don't like the immediate reaction, which is, see, Indiana
was a fraud and it should have been Alabama or
c SMU is a fraud.

Speaker 5 (01:37:33):
It should have been oh miss.

Speaker 4 (01:37:35):
Those same people said nothing about Tennessee. How about this
idea number one? How about those four teams that won
are actually good football teams who are playing at home
and for the most part, played really really well.

Speaker 2 (01:37:47):
Are we just going to forget that in the previous
year's formats. There have also been blowouts right of you know,
Ohio State has been blown out before. Notre Dame has
been blown out before. I'd like the twelve team format.
I thought it was cool seeing four playoff games played
this weekend on teams home fields.

Speaker 5 (01:38:08):
Agreed.

Speaker 4 (01:38:09):
I thought that was cool, and I think the top
seed should get the same benefit. I don't think there
should be ball games.

Speaker 2 (01:38:14):
Correct.

Speaker 5 (01:38:14):
I don't know how you do that, but correct.

Speaker 2 (01:38:16):
I think Ohio State should be going to Oregon right now.
The only thing I don't agree with is how they
handle the automatic seeding.

Speaker 5 (01:38:25):
Agreed.

Speaker 2 (01:38:26):
Because agreed, you're you're going to go into a situation
where Texas will be favored over Arizona State. Arizona State's
the four seed, Penn State's probably favored over boys e
Boise is the three seed, and say what you want
about it. I know they've played differently. If you ask
me today, with eight teams remaining, who are the best
two teams? I would say Oregon and Ohio State. And
because of how the format is, they have to play

(01:38:47):
each other in a quarterfinal round.

Speaker 5 (01:38:50):
That I think is wrong.

Speaker 2 (01:38:51):
I think you seed how you see fit, give automatic
bids receed, but you reseed after the first round because
Ohio State should not be playing and Oregon should not
be penalized for the season. They had to not be
able to host Ohio State, but to take on Ohio
State in the Rose bul Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:39:12):
I just felt like the reaction to this weekend discredited
the teams that won. Yeah, and it shouldn't.

Speaker 4 (01:39:20):
Notre Dame imposed itself imposed itself against Indiana physically and
otherwise absolutely imposed itself. And by the way, it's worth
mentioning Ohio State's the eight and so if you did,
you know, no reseating with the way things would have unfolded,
would have changed the fact that the Buckeyes are going

(01:39:41):
to play the Ducks. But I felt like if you
look at those games, Notre Dame imposed its well physically,
Penn State took advantage of an early SMU turnover and
then imposed itself in ways that Penn State doesn't often
do in big games, but James Franklin teams do as
a favorite. Texas's offense was to rif and say what

(01:40:02):
you want about Ryan Day. The way Ohio State started
the game and finished the game, I give them a
lot of credit, a lot of noise, a lot outside noise,
a lot of outside noise, felt like the walls were
caving in. That looked like a really focused team. It
looked like a really well coached team, and it looked
like a group of players who had their coaches back.

Speaker 2 (01:40:23):
Yeah, it's a team that you know, if you're a fan,
you're maden that watching that and watching what they did
in the last regular season, no question. But you know,
you you also probably feel pretty good knowing you didn't
play your best game at Oregon, right and you were
in it till the very most lose by a point,
you know, I think what illustrates and I just looked
up the actual lines. Notre Dame is only a point

(01:40:45):
and a half underdog, and I think that's gonna be
a really good game because I think Notre Dame is
physical and Georgia doesn't have Carson Beck. Outside of that,
and we know what what the numbers look like. Ohio
State's favored. H they're two point favorite. Yeah, But I
think my main point is two teams that had buys
are double digit dogs. Yeah, as the higher seed, Arizona

(01:41:07):
State as a ten and a half point I'm sorry,
Arizona State's a fourteen point dog. As the four seed,
and the three seed Bois States a ten and a
half point dog. Yeah, like that doesn't make sense, I think,
So give me the twelve. Yeah, give me the automatic bits,
and then you see them one through twelve. I'm I'm
totally okay with that. Look, man, I do this every
single year with the NCAA Tournament. If if you wanted

(01:41:29):
to be included in the postseason, do better. Yeah, right,
that's that's the one that you dislike everyone crushing smu Right, Okay, Alabama,
don't lose to six and six Oklahoma. Yeah, who was
terrible this year?

Speaker 4 (01:41:40):
You look in postseasons, sometimes we have blowouts, sometimes we
have sweeps. Sometimes we don't get great games. I just
one of the reasons for the twelve team playoff was, well,
there's too much sameness in college football.

Speaker 5 (01:41:54):
What made this cool was Indiana.

Speaker 4 (01:41:56):
Look, I'm the first to admit Indiana didn't play the
world's most challenging schedule in the in the non conference,
they didn't have a lot of great wins. But to
suggest we should ignore what they did do while they're
in the Big Ten, to me is ludicrous. I think
it was cool we got to watch Indiana play in
the playoffs. I think it's cool that a first year
power for school SMU, we got a chance to watch

(01:42:17):
them play in the playoff. If we're gonna ignore what
they do on the field, let's literally just simulate the
season based on recruiting rankings, based on analytics and not
play football games and then take.

Speaker 5 (01:42:28):
The twelve teams that emerge from that. Yeah, I mean
winning the games has to matter for something.

Speaker 2 (01:42:33):
Yeah, I mean it gives an Arizona State team picked
last in the preseason to win the Big Twelve to
be a four seed in the College foot Play. But
like my thought is, and much like we talked about
with the Kansas City Chiefs, are you happy if you're
Oregan that the team that's now gonna play you just
got to play at home and get right?

Speaker 5 (01:42:52):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:42:52):
Like I that goes back to the whole Chiefs conversation.
How long do you rest guys? Yeah, Because now here's
Oregon coming off a bye where it might take a
little longer to get going, versus a team that played
one of their best games of the season.

Speaker 4 (01:43:03):
So to me, part of the correction there is to
allow the top four seeds to enjoy what the four
higher seeded teams.

Speaker 5 (01:43:11):
This weekend got which was a home game. Yep.

Speaker 4 (01:43:13):
Now, obviously you know home they're going to tie in
the Sugar Bowl and the Rose Bowl and the Peach
Bowl and the Fiesta Bowl into the next rounds of games.
And could you theoretically use those as the first round
and take away home games.

Speaker 5 (01:43:27):
For the teams that snuck in? Probably, I guess you could.

Speaker 4 (01:43:31):
Now those bowls want to be played on New Year's
even New Year's dead, and there's there's a little bit
less time to prepare to go travel for games like that.
But that would be the one tweak because I thought
it was cool as hell. The atmosphere of Penn State.
The atmosphere yea, even though there were a bunch of
Tennessee fans there, like it looked fun. Look Cole fun

(01:43:52):
in Columbus, Texas, same thing Notre Dame. The college game
day setting at night in front of touchdown Jesus was
awesome and the setting was cool, and look, those are
really good teams that were playing at home. I felt
like everybody chose to ignore the teams that played well
and won in an effort to make a case yeah
for teams that weren't good enough to make it that

(01:44:14):
had flaws on their resume, that opportunities to make a
clear cut.

Speaker 5 (01:44:19):
Case to be included, and did brutal brutal. I didn't
like it.

Speaker 2 (01:44:22):
Yeah, again, it's the same argument we had the previous regime.
The previous way it was there were Browns all the time.
There seems that well that team didn't deserve to be there. Well,
take care of your business during the Season's that's why
for those that say, well, the regular season doesn't matter
as much, it does.

Speaker 5 (01:44:40):
Right, not as to Alabama.

Speaker 2 (01:44:42):
Right, if they don't lose the six and six, right, Oklahoma,
they're probably favored at Penn State.

Speaker 5 (01:44:46):
It's still a really meaningful regular season. It's just a
little bit more forgiving. Yeah, I mean, same thing.

Speaker 2 (01:44:51):
If Ohio State had not lost to Michigan, you're not
having to beat Tennessee and now play Oregon, you have
an easier path instead of playing that game in the quarterfinals.

Speaker 4 (01:45:01):
I just think it's interesting that all those these these
ex SEC hacks who immediately went out of their way
on Friday night and early on Saturday to make the
case for Alabama and for Old Miss they shut the
hell up about Tennessee.

Speaker 2 (01:45:14):
Outside of Georgia, That's why I was wondering the way
Tennessee was.

Speaker 5 (01:45:16):
An at large team, Right?

Speaker 3 (01:45:18):
They were?

Speaker 4 (01:45:18):
They were, They did not win the SEC, didn't play
in the SEC title game, Right, they weren't at large?

Speaker 2 (01:45:26):
So you were if you were reseeding the eight remaining,
how would you see them?

Speaker 4 (01:45:34):
A fair question, I'd go I'd go Oregon one, I'd
go Ohio State to.

Speaker 2 (01:45:45):
Texas.

Speaker 4 (01:45:47):
Well, how am I seeding Georgia? Am I doing what
they do in the NCAA tournament and seating based on
your current personnel?

Speaker 2 (01:45:53):
Yeah, I'm saying knowing what you know right now, seeing
how the teams are playing, and understanding they don't have
their starting quarterback.

Speaker 4 (01:46:00):
I mean, Georgia did beat Texas twice and won that
second game without Carson back, So I'd see Georgia third. Yeah,
Texas four, Notre Dame, Notre Dame, Penn State.

Speaker 2 (01:46:18):
Notre Dame's without their one of their best defensive linemen.

Speaker 5 (01:46:20):
Now, Notre Dame, Penn State, Boise State, Arizona State.

Speaker 2 (01:46:26):
I think the team that's benefited the most is Penn State. Yes,
they host a SMU team in the cold, They're now
gonna play a team where they're a ten and a
half point favorite, and if they win that they would
play the winner of Georgia and Notre Dame Georgia without
their quarterback.

Speaker 4 (01:46:41):
If Arizona State makes the Final four, we get to
say that the Bearcads beat a final four team.

Speaker 5 (01:46:46):
Correct.

Speaker 2 (01:46:47):
Correct, They've already beat a top eight team, Yeah, the
quarterfinal team in the college football least.

Speaker 4 (01:46:53):
There was a possibility that we could say the Bearceads
beat a national champion.

Speaker 2 (01:46:57):
And I don't know what it means to this point.
It does at least feel like they've done a pretty
good job in the portal to this point. The Bearcats.

Speaker 4 (01:47:06):
Yeah, I read the piece in the Athletic that gave
them rave reviews for the work that they have done.

Speaker 5 (01:47:12):
They're gonna have a lot of guys who are stepping
up a level.

Speaker 4 (01:47:14):
Yeah, but you know what it also, I think when
the season ended, the two biggest concerns about leaving were
Corleone and Royer, and both are back.

Speaker 5 (01:47:24):
Yeah, so they have managed to keep their guys. Yep.
How should I feel about Brendan soars me next year?

Speaker 2 (01:47:31):
That's I think that's the biggest question. I don't want
it to be a question because I'm kind of down
on because so much.

Speaker 4 (01:47:36):
I hated how he played in the second half of
the season. Love him as a guy, love him as
a guy. I hated how he played in the second
half of the season.

Speaker 5 (01:47:42):
Yeah, that's good question.

Speaker 4 (01:47:44):
Well, we have like eight months to wrap our brains
around that. But we have no more times I hear
the music. We will be at Twin Peaks in Florence
a week from today, yes, which we're looking forward to
the day after the Bengal or two days after the
Bengals played the Bronco, and then we're back here at
west Chester two weeks from today.

Speaker 5 (01:48:04):
And then after that tbd, TBD.

Speaker 4 (01:48:07):
I want to thank the folks here at Twin Peaks
for having us, Thanks to our friend Mike Mills for
producing on site.

Speaker 2 (01:48:15):
Thanks to our friends for coming out to the show.

Speaker 4 (01:48:17):
Thanks to our true friends for coming out to the show.
We appreciate them. Shout out to the iconic ken Brew
Thanks to our guy Tarin for producing back in Kenwood.
Hope everybody has a great Christmas, Happy Holidays, be safe,
and we're back in Westchester two weeks Florence next week,

(01:48:38):
and Merry Christmas everybody there. It's been the Tony and
Mo Football Show on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 5 (01:48:56):
Hey it's m wager. There's only one

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12/23/24 - The Tony & Mo Football Show

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