April 30, 2024 • 38 mins
Paul Dehner Jr. of The Athletic and The Growler Podcast joined us to break down the 2024 Bengals draft class, it's impact on roster construction, Trey Hendrickson's goofy trade request, and a bunch more.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
PN fifteen thirty. What's up,Good afternoon, I'm bull Edgar. This
is ESPN fifteen thirty. Thank youso much for joining us today. I
hope you're having a an awesome Tuesday. We are loaded this afternoon. Paul
Danner Junior is here. Think ofall the things that have happened between Paul's
last visit on Tuesday of last weekand well, what we have in front
(00:22):
of us today. We are broadcastingthis afternoon from the ESPN fifteen thirty Made
Well Restoration Studios, Greater Cincinnati's roofingand exterior restoration experts, Madewell Restoration dot
Com. Paul Danner Junior joins uson Tuesdays. Today's Tuesday. He is
here. He has been just bustingout draft content for the Athletic for the
(00:45):
Growler podcast, which is being donelive tonight at the Banks at the Nation
Bar and Grill Bet MGM Sportsbook.This is gonna be a lot of fun
tonight. Got yourself, you gotJay Morrison out, Mark Shalafu, and
you're gonna be breaking down all ofthe Bengals draft choices with somebody who was
instrumental in choosing the players they took. Yeah, we'll be We'll be there
(01:08):
in Nation, hanging out with BengalsCollege scouting director Mike Potts, who it's
one of my favorite conversations every year. We joked about it last week,
but we had a news conference withhim and he said, you know,
it's so close close to the vestas you get right up on the draft,
but I would love to go intodetail next week. And I thought,
(01:30):
well, that's perfect. This isexactly the time to do it.
And he and and and they haveso many stories. And I've kind of
been talking to a lot of thescouting staff and other people connected to this
draft all week, and you know, the stories behind all of these guys.
It's cool when you start to getto know why they liked them,
not just as the you know theplayers on tape, but as you know
the personalities and why they think theyfit or why they see certain things.
(01:53):
I know we'll get into all ofthat, but that's one of my favorite
conversations all year. And it's beencool that we've kind of, now this
is many years in a row we'vedone this in a live setting because everybody
wants to hear what they can learnabout these guys and why they made the
decisions they made and why they didcertain things and didn't do certain things.
So gonna be great. We'll bedown there seven o'clock in Nation. Come
(02:15):
on down and we're gonna We're gonnahave a lot of fun with it.
It's it's gonna be it's gonna bea great night. TV situation down there
is gonna be okay. The TVsituation is gonna be okay. We will
make sure it has been stated veryexplicitly. We need a screen with a
Knicks game. The good news isthey have about like eight million screens that
are all huge, so I'm positive, okay that a Knicks game will be
(02:38):
on. I am interested in thisconversation tonight because more so than maybe at
any point in recent memory, I'mreally interested in the process. Yeah,
because with so many of these picks, I think the process has to be
explained, and I think there's alot of us. Let's just take a
Marius Mims, for example, theprocess that goes into evaluating him and looking
(03:00):
at what he's put on tape,which by all accounts is impressive, and
weighing that against the relative lack ofexperience, relative lack of experience and eight
starts, sorry, eight starts,sorry, goodness gracious, weighing it against
the eight starts and weighing it againstthings like what Nick Saban had to say
(03:20):
about it. The pick and soprocess for him is interesting. Process for
Eric all is interesting because of injuriesobviously Jermaine Burton. So we'll discuss each
one of those, and I knowyou will tonight. But I think this
was the first time in a longtime where there were so many picks where
I'm a little bit more interested inwhat went into the decision to take those
players versus other options. And we'llget some answers tonight. Yeah, because
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this draft, you know, tome was defined by big swings that you
know, we talked a lot aboutdoubles hitter Duke Tobin and the safe and
the high floors, and they havetried to draft that way a lot,
but this was this was different ona There are two, you know,
really most notable picked. I mean, Chris Jenkins is maybe the cleanest prospect
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in the history of the NFL draftsOkay, like you, you can't find
better when it comes to person playerperformance, charisma. He's gonna be I
think he's gonna be the voice ofthe defense in two years. But that
put that aside. The two mostprominent picks that are gonna affect Joe Burrow
in this offense. You know,come with those questions about the the other
(04:25):
stuff where the tape is off thecharts, but the other stuff is is
the question. And this team hasoften, you know, pushed the value
of the other stuff up and notpushed the tape down. That's not my
contention, but you know that stuffhas held a ton of weight, and
and so you want to know howdid they become comfortable with that? And
and because I think everybody admits withboth of these guys like that's the stuff
(04:48):
that's gonna decide whether they succeed orfail. Nobody's debating that a Marius Mims
is gonna walk out on that fieldand the and every edge rusher in the
league's be like, oh goodness,gracious, this dude, you kidding me?
Or you don't watch Jermaine Burton playand say, Okay, this is
a real dude here. I mean, no one's say it's the other stuff
(05:10):
that that they did all the workon that they're going to have to stand
by and and know that they're goingto get the most out of them.
And and that's a risk. That'sa risk. But the other thing is,
man, if it hits, Yeah, that's a that is a super
Bowl bet because if it hits onboth of them, I mean, you
have you have weapons galore already andand Joe Burrow the perfect person to light
(05:33):
them up. All right. TheMims pick specifically, a lot of folks
would say, well, what makesme think this isn't going to work is
Cincinnati's track record when it comes todeveloping offensive linemen. I'll counter that by
saying, I don't think they've hada player like this to work with.
No, right, No, there'sa there's I don't know, I don't
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know. This is how many Idon't need more than No, this isn't
Deontay Smith, to be fair,it's not even Jona Williams. Jonah Williams
was a Jonah Williams was a double. Jonah Williams was a high floor and
that's what he proved to be.He was a high floor pick. You
knew what you were gonna get.He didn't have traits even in the same
(06:14):
world as this. Okay, andthat's totally fine. But this is a
whole different thing to learn about,and it would be one thing if when
he played it didn't look good.When he played, it looked good,
it looked great. I mean,he wasn't giving up pressures, he wasn't
giving up sacks. Nobody's nobody who'stouching the quarterback. He wasn't flagged.
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I mean in that short sample size, you know, that was part of
it. You know. The thingthat I heard about memes and just talking
to people at Georgia. I knowyou've talked to people that have covered Georgia
two was that there. He wasvery much all about the draft, okay,
and I get it. Yeah,when you're that you're thinking about I'm
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a first pick. And once heproved himself, you know, they felt
like maybe things for them changed withhim. As far as the approach to
everything was very draft focused. Well, okay, when he gets to the
NFL, won't he be very makingmoney in the NFL focused, which means
going and playing well, And that'swhat everybody's betting on. Everybody has different
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motivations, and they're in college,especially these days, those are more out
there than ever. I had nomotivation in college, That's true, you
and I. That's why we didn'treally succeed very much. You know,
That's why I lived at home afterI graduated. Okay, he's not living
at home. He's making many millionsof dollars and and so you project that
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maturation. You you project and youyou meet the guy and you say,
I think he's gonna get here andfit right in. You're around the right
people, You're in the right room. Trent Brown and Orlando Brown look like
you, play like you. TedCarris is a is a dynamic leader that
knows how to handle that. Youlove that he's out dinner on Friday night
as part of that group with OrlandoBrown and Amarius Mims' family is like taking
(08:05):
hold of that. That's the stuffyou need, right. So if you
built all this up, you madeall of these picks, and you made
decisions with culture, and you've developedit through winning. You know, this
I think was the draft. Theysaid, let's take advantage of that.
We are uniquely positioned to take advantageof that. More so in the Burton
(08:26):
conversation that we'll get to than theMEM's conversation, but definitely a big part
of the MEM's conversation too, becausegetting the most out of a guy like
that is all pro stuff, isbest player in the draft stuff, the
Burton thing. Because it's a staffthat doesn't have the track record of ignoring
character issues. They've prioritized them.And then if they're going to veer away
(08:50):
from that priority, I assume theywill have really done their homework and put
their time in and vetting this out. I assume this is going to be
okay. Yeah, I think they'rehoping it's gonna be okay. I mean,
I think that's that's assumption to youdo all the homework you can,
right, you know, and youhope that the person comes in and and
(09:11):
you know is affected by those aroundhim. You know, this is it's
the key in whether you're talking aboutin the in that room. Jamar Chase,
Jamar Chase is the perfect example oflet a guy be himself. Let
a guy come in and be hisown personality. Never never push back on
that unless it's against the you know, they're the things that matter for the
(09:33):
team. Right. Lets you letthat guy feel like he's comfortable and can
be himself here. That goes along way with anybody. And then have
that guy be the hardest worker.And then let Jermaine Burton come in and
say watch jamar. Okay, he'sgoofy, he's himself. He's out there
right, he's not afraid to sayand do anything. And he but he
(09:54):
works harder than anyone and and itand it matters to him and he and
he plays butt off on game day. If you follow that, you'll be
fine. You'll find here. AndI think that's the thing that you hope
that you fall into, especially whenyou have a coach like Troy Walters,
who's one of the best. Andhere's the point I want to make at
the end of this, Joe Burrow, Okay, yeah, it's time you
(10:18):
need to turn on I think JoeBurrow needs to turn on the switch here
a little bit. Yeh okay,being instinctively knowing when guys need a hug
and when guys need hard language andwhen, but not really being and no
one's saying, don't be yourself.Don't He's he's not a give the speech
every day like that's not who heis. He is always been in the
(10:39):
lead by example, but knows howto lead the room, understand that people
follow him. These rookies. Burrowis so deeply entrenched as one of the
elite players of the NFL. Atthis point, these rookies come in,
they all have idolized him now andso they will absolutely be afraid of him,
okay, and he needs to becomethat. I think that's the next
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stage of his leadership, right isbecoming more of understanding how to wield that
even a little more. And heis he knows more about that than I
ever will. He's forgotten more aboutthat than I ever will. But I
think it's time for him to bea big part of this. And that's
why you pay that guy that money. That's why they loved him because he
had those skills instinctual to him.And I think that's got to be a
(11:22):
part of his next stage with particularlyguys like Mims, guys like Burton,
or really anybody that you feel likeyou know is a key part of this
team winning going forward. Paul DannerJinder covering the Bengals the Athletic dot Com
The Growler Podcast Live version tonight seveno'clock at Nation Bar and Grill and betten
GM Sportsbook at the Banks. He'shere told four that starts tonight at seven
(11:46):
o'clock. We have a lot ofground to cover. We've got the draft.
Since you and I last talked toTrey Hendrickson, He's asked for a
trade and I spent like three dayslaughing at him. Tee Higgins' agent,
make some noise. We have alot to get to. Yeah, yeah,
a lot of talk, lots totalk about. Follow Paul on social
media at Paul Dayner Junior. It'ssixteen after three o'clock on ESPN fifteen thirty
(12:11):
Cincinnati Sports Station. In fifteen thirtyMoeger Paul Dayn Junior is here covering the
Bengals. You've written like five thingssince the draft. Yeah. I don't
how many Moore Hoby podcasts have youdone. I think let's see one each
night, four or five tonight sinceday one started. Yeah, and then
plus the we did the two leadups that were pretty big to Mega mock,
(12:33):
and we did the we did theone on the Wednesday before. Has
your little league baseball coaching suffered beencompromised with all this work? Let me
tell you one of the most impressiveperformances of my life was the fact that
I was actually standing out there atnine am on Saturday morning. After really
back as late as I did.We had a nine am game out about
twenty minutes from our house, managedto we all got there, managed to
(12:56):
make it. I thought the teamplayed extraordinary well, a lot of hustle
all over the field really yep.Gave out the game balls and went down
to the stadium for another ten hoursof pain. Wow. It was great.
Never been more impressed. Yeah,I mean, I don't know about
that, but it was. Iwas just happy to be standing. It
is many late nights, but youknow, it's fun. It was fun.
(13:18):
How much are we going to loveChris Jenkins. I'm already, like,
I'm already beaming, Like everybody.Everybody that you talk to when his
name is mentioned has that reaction.They just start like they beam and they
want to tell you the stories.I mean. So they did a different
thing in this year with the secondround picks, because they would bring them
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in in the past, and there'susually like a media junket of everybody set
up cameras all across and everyone getstheir one on ones, and that existed
and if people wanted, but forthe writers, we had you know,
we're in the media room, thedraft is going on, so it's hard
for us to like. So theythey just brought the guys in off the
record, we're all just sitting aroundthere, meet and greet, getting to
(14:01):
know them. I mean, there'sa lot of us in there. I
mean there was probably fifteen people atleast sitting around in a circle, half
working, half talking to him.And he held court like he was running
for mayor and already won. Imean, he's so charismatic, you get
it. I mean, and hewas a great communicator, talked about his
(14:24):
points, you know, he talkedabout how you know it was questioned.
Kelsey Conway had a great part ofthe conversation talking about, you know,
people questioning your size, are youbig enough? And his point was he
was emphasizing a million times I amnot Aaron Donald, and no one is
saying that, But the same conceptto that answer applies, like was Aaron
Donald big enough? No, buthe was insanely strong and knew how to
(14:46):
use his leverage and that helped himmake plays. That's what Chris feels like
he does. So when people talkabout his size and how look at the
numbers, how many run stops hemakes, and how good he is in
making those splash plays in the rungame. That's a matter of understanding how
to use that power and then whathappens, and then it's time for Dan
Horde and Chris Jenkins to do theMoeger Turkish get up video and and and
(15:11):
he plays it off like he ishe's just like he's a stand up on
the side. Yeah, I meanit was. It was incredible. I
know you you've tweeted that out,but I very much enjoyed that whole thing
too, So he and I justthought. I thought he was a dream
pick for them. The fact thathe lasted the whole I mean I had
him up there a number, youknow, the top of what I was
stalking for them for ten picks ofHe's the nut top of their board,
(15:35):
and he just wasn't there. Andthat was the case for them as well,
right and there was It's the onlyI was told it was the only
time they were really nervous all allweekend about should we trade up? But
they felt like there was a coupleother guys on the board that they also
did like that kind of made themsay, no, let's just stay.
I think there's a chance Jenkins couldmake it through this. And they dig
(15:58):
They didn't want to give up anyany of the draft capital they had to
and and it worked out perfectly forthem because he's a for what they needed,
for what he is, what hewas at Michigan, what they value
dream dream pick at forty nine.Overall, they take two tight ends and
no running backs. How do thosethings combined to tell us how they plan
on deploying their personnel on the field. I the running back portion was the
(16:22):
surprise for me, not the twotight ends, not for the fact.
I just think those late picks.Their strategy was, let's just pick guys
that we are surprised, fell thatwe have high on our board almost no
matter where, double ups, youknow whatever. They just wanted to use
those all those late picks to takea bunch of extra swings and see what
(16:45):
happens. So, you know,McLaughlin coming there in round six when you
already took all I just think that'sa how's he still here? Right?
And so they just take him.Not having a single running back and ten
picks, though, I think itsays a lot about well, their confidence
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in the combination of Moss and Brownto really soak up all of that and
be the true one two combo.Confidence in Travon what Travon Williams showed you
to be a third guy, andthat they maybe they have their eyes on
a free agent that could be comein if they really if they needed somebody
to go do that. I notedin my depth chart piece on offension,
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Jerk McKinnon's still out there. Maybehe's somebody that they could go after.
There's there's there's running backs that areout there. Ezekiel Elliott no longer out
there, just like a couple ofyears ago. Still not something they ever
considered. But so maybe that's whatthat is. But I just think it's
that was more about feeling like theMoss Brown combo is a stronghold there and
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and the running back thing just didn'tquite didn't quite hit them, or they
just you know, who knows.But I just think it's more about that
and less about some great and personnelchange. They're not going to come out
there running thirteen personnel every play.I do think they have And I touched
on this the other day too,and I think there's a lot more to
(18:11):
be done about this. They haveso much more potential after this draft to
run more of a positionless football versatilething that they're eleven personnel or they're twelve
personnel. If you're talking about Gazikiand Sample being out there or just Gisiki
being out there to go into thehuddle and the defense has no idea what's
coming out of them, you knowwhere they could go in there and go
(18:33):
so many different ways between Burton's flexibility, Chase's flexibility, Gasiki's flexibility. There's
a lot more dynamic stuff there.And even you know some of the line
some of the line players, they'reflexibility. What you could imagine, run
up, run the big run thenew I guess the Sincinnice skyline we're going
with, Yes, yeah, runthem out there, offset the three of
(18:55):
them in a row, and thenChase Brown as you go between their legs
like you could do. There's lotsof different stuff that you can do.
But I think the weapons versatility standsout to me now with this team of
what they could do with all thosedifferent pieces where it looks the same at
the beginning and they can run thewhole playbook out of it all right.
On Friday, on Thursday of lastweek, Trey Hendrickson, we find out
(19:17):
he has asked for a trade,and we have to spend some time talking
about that. We'll take long I'vehad an immense amount of fun laughing at
him, and maybe maybe I shouldn'tbe having as much fun as I am.
But there's one more draft related thingI want to get to, and
it's it's really just to me now, the subsequent question that hovers over the
next four months. So I'll askit to you when we come back.
(19:38):
He's Paul Danner Junior Tonight, seveno'clock, Nation Bar and Gerrill Bet MGM
at the Banks The Growler Live.Yes, seven pm. Gonna be a
blast. Mike Potts will be there. Yeah, it's gonna be fun.
Jay Morrison will be there. Yes, Mark Shalife will be there. Yeah,
the whole crew. You I'm coming, You're coming, I'm coming.
Stationed in front of the Nick Sixersgame. Yeah, correct, close out,
(20:02):
close out drinks, close out drinks. You know. Mark is a
big Knicks fantigue, same Knicks fan. Yeah. Yeah, you guys will
be sweating it. I'm excited towatch the apologies in advance. It's twenty
nine minutes after three o'clock. He'shere till four. We are on the
air till six. ESPN fifteen thirtyCincinnati Sports Station Cincy three sixty with Tony
Pike. Do we want to moveon or doctor Keith Gorse and Boston Elmore,
(20:25):
I think you should continue. Letme keep going there Sincy three sixty
tomorrow which twelve News on ESPN fifteenthirty Cincinnati's esc Chevrol home of lifetime power
train protection and guaranteed credit approval fromtheir family to yours for life. Kelseyshev
dot com Red try to make ittwo in a road tonight. They're in
San Diego, second of three againstthe Padres, Nick Martinez and five time
(20:49):
All Star You Darvish on the hillthis evening, nine to forty tonight on
seven hundred WLW. The starting lineup. You can't complain about it yet because
it's not out. Ian continues tohave issues. He has been returned from
his rehab assignment, and then they'llfigure out what the next steps are.
Congratulations to a Ret Louder, theDayton Dragon, Red's farm hand and one
(21:11):
of their top pitching prospects, namedthe Midwest League Pitcher of the Week.
Paul Danner. Jenner's here from theAthletic and the Growler podcast, which is
being done live tonight at seven o'clockat Nation Bar and grill at the Banks
downtown. You did sort of atwo part look at the roster now in
the aftermath of the draft, onepart offense, the other part defense.
(21:33):
To me, the central question lookis Joe gonna be on the field normal
offseason all that stuff. But morethan anything else, the central question I
have between now and at least midwaythrough training camp is how significantly better is
this defense compared to last year.Yeah, and that's a big one,
and I think that will be exactlylike you said, the question of this
(21:56):
time of year, and we haveopenly, i think for good reason,
made fun of this time of year. Yeah. You know, country club
Bengals have been a thing the lastfew years. They have. They this
is where they feel like they buya little bit from their players. Hey,
you know what, We'll give youthis and just know when you come
in, be ready to go.When we were going to ask for a
lot of you in this season,and they've traded that a little bit.
(22:19):
I think with this defense in particular, with a lot of the young guys
in particular with Dax Hill specifically,this is gonna be a little bit more
labor intensive and heavy this this timeof year because they have so much riding
on the development of their young guys. I mean you look at you look
(22:41):
at their secondary and extract Mike Hilton. It's you know, now you're adding
you're adding Josh Newton into this mix. That has Cam Taylor, Britta and
DJ Turner in year two and DaxHill making a move over to corner and
your three, so that's kind ofa startover for him and Jordan Battle And
I mean look, I mean it'sall kids, yeah and so, and
(23:02):
we heard last year they're betting onthe year one the year two. They
took their lumps last year. Sobecause in year two they're gonna be ready
to go, Well, that doesn'thappen magically. You need to see it,
see the progress. And this isgoing to be an important run for
them to show that. In thesecondary in particular, you're seeing those gains,
You're seeing it look crisper, You'reseeing a better understanding of how everything
(23:25):
is supposed to run, maybe evenoccasionally at full speed in practice, right
like you're allowed during the very specificportions of time. So that to me
is going to be a big partof this time of year for them.
I do think they should be better. I think that they've made improvements there,
but you know it's really mostly contingenton all of those new pieces coming
(23:51):
together. I mean, you've gotpotentially two new starting safeties. Even though
Vondelle's old, he's new again.Geno Stone's news. Is he gonna be
us? Is he there was twice? Is he a Baltimore scheme fit a
creation of that? Or is hegonna come in here and still be the
same guy. That's got to besomething you got. All of that needs
to get vetted out between now andthen for them to be better. There's
way more change this year than therewas even last year. So you know,
(24:15):
I shrug it. Whether it's gonnabe better or not. It seems
hard for it to be too muchworse considering what we watched. But you
know, it's gonna be important tofeel You're gonna they better feel pretty comfortable
by the time they get to midAugust about what's happening. Well, the
thing is like, because of whatwe think or what we know, the
offense can be. It's not likefor the Bengals to win eleven to twelve
(24:37):
games or more that they have tohave a top three defense like that.
That's not the requirement right at thesame time, do I trust them to
get stops when they need to?At some point the defense is going to
be asked to win a game forthem, and specifically I expect them to
be better because frankly, it reallycan't get much worse. But how good
is their best? What is theceiling? You know what I mean?
(25:00):
I think they could. I thinkthey could very easily be in that range
that they were in in twenty twentytwo and twenty twenty one. I don't
think. I don't think that isthat good? Is that possible? Yeah?
Nine, sign me up for that. Yeah. I just think we
over we overblow things. Sometimes wespend too much time breaking it down.
How about just just cut back thecut the explosives in half and you're good.
(25:22):
Fine, rank in the middle ofthe pack in explosives allowed. Don't
have the massive busts on the backend. And that's why you have potentially
two new starting safeties this year andsome other moves that have happened, so
that if that happens, if youcan play the type of defense that Luin
Remo wants to play, which isthat make them earn it, bend but
don't break, you know, getyour red zone turnovers. Points yards not
(25:45):
point. You know, it's allit's what it's all about, technically,
points not yards. I'm sorry,points not yard. Yes, I thought
it was we give you the yards. We don't give you the point.
We don't give you the points.Yeah, it's all about points or what
matters. But talk to me aboutyards. Talking about points is what he
and that's fine, and they andthey have they have done. They've won
plenty of games with that strategy.And I don't, I don't, I
(26:06):
don't. You know, I havea problem with it. But you know,
you have a massive problem that wasa disaster last year to fix in
that regard, and that is aboutthe explosives, and so you know that's
got to get fixed. Is everybodylaughing at Trey Hendrickson as much as I
am? Yeah? I think so. I just is there a soul on
(26:29):
the planet that believed, even himthat he was would ever consider like retiring?
No, no, no one thinksthat that. You're gonna you want
more money, but you're gonna walkaway from sixteen and fifteen million dollars cash
the next two years. You justwalk away from that. But you want
to be paid more. Either you'reworth more, you're like one of the
(26:49):
craziest competitors and that we've ever seen. Yeah, uh, you know,
I no one believes that, right, And you just signed this contract like
everyone knows what happened. Yes,you just signed this extension last year and
got a raise in the year addedon through twenty twenty five. So this
is just kind of you signed this. Yeah, and so it's I don't
(27:11):
think that there's many people that arekind that are taking it very seriously,
any of it really. But whatfrustrates me is not that he requested a
trade, and not that I thinkthat this is going to divide the locker
room or be a huge distraction.But it sends not a ton of people,
(27:36):
but it sends enough to these familiarplaces where you have to listen to
how see, this is what youget for cheap ownership, and I'm going
cheap ownership. This is this issmart football. They signed a guy for
one more year through basically his agethirty one season. They get him at
a very manageable rate for guy thathad seventeen and a half sacks. That's
not cheap. That's effective, that'sefficient. That's that's what you want.
(28:00):
But whenever there is a player herewhere you see trade request, it sends
people, you know, down thisthis rabbit hole of we have to go
talk about Carson Palmer again, andwe have to go talk about players who
have demanded they're a trade when theywere playing for the Bengals when they aren't
what they have been in recent years. And maybe that doesn't matter to them,
(28:22):
and maybe it shouldn't matter to me, but it does. I mean
with Trey's situation in particular, Imean, was anyone calling them cheap when
they signed Trey and free agency forthat contract. No, people said they
overpaid, Yes, that they spenttoo much, Right, that wasn't cheap.
And when they spent more money infree agency over the course of those
two off seasons than anyone was werepeople calling them cheap. No, people
(28:48):
have problems with the method in whichthey spend in some of these. To
me, these are decisions things,and there's nothing about what has happened with
Trey Hendrickson that is a cheap team. It is they overpaid him and then
that turned to be in their favoron the that bet turn to be in
their favor on the back half,and they still did a ma solid and
gave him a raise in an extrayear. Yeh, on that on that
(29:11):
end. So the whole Trey Hendricksonthing has been they've spent more. That's
been the opposite of cheap with him. Now his contract is a great value
because of that the other things.I mean, whether we're talking about t
Higgins, you get into the decisionof should you pay that the quarterback and
the two receivers is not the notthe do they have the money on hand.
(29:36):
It's a matter of roster construction,not of cheapness, you know.
And and this is the same teamthat made Joe Burrow the richest quarterback when
everyone's like, oh, are theygoing to come with a home two hundred
and nineteen guaranteed? Like none ofthat, none of that exists in these
other conversations. But these are leveragemethods that every player uses. That you
(29:57):
see these all the time. Butwhen it does happen with the Bengals,
it does make people want to saythat because that's just the reputation that exists.
And that's fine and willfully being lazy. Have you been around this country,
mo, Yeah, it kind ofdefines us. Yeah, willfully lazy,
willfully lazy. It's easier to justsay a lot of the same things,
and people have accused me of suchthings, which I but people say
(30:19):
a lot of the same things,excuse you of being lazy. No,
I'm saying a lot of the samethings. Okay, Oh, God knows,
I get that accusation the right.That's fine. I am awfully,
wilfully lazy too. I think there'scertain things that people just put in their
heads and believe, and it's andit's easy for outsiders and national to say
that, especially when you're in asituation that you're not as well covered as
(30:41):
other teams. Yeah, that's allall right. Well, I just I
don't know why I'm fascinated by thissituation because it's just so goofy it is.
I just, you know, sometimesI just I just think sometimes somebody
just you just try, just wantsto people to know, like, hey,
I should get more money. Waseveryone agrees you're you've outperformed it,
(31:02):
right? I signed it twice.I was on the air at about five
forty last Wednesday, and I lookat Twitter and there's the Adam Schefter tweet.
There are very few things, especiallyin the current environment we live in
that I'm genuinely like taking aback andI got to make sure I'm reading that
right. It's not adarn Schefter.This is real. Okay, wait a
(31:23):
minute, trick, this is aand then then I'm at odds with myself.
It's like I could swear he justsigned a contract extension. Yeah,
I could swear that just happened withinthe last year. And then I doubt
myself. And but the weird it'sjust it's it's a goofy situation. Yeah,
and I'm incredibly amused by it butalso somewhat frustrated by it. Yeah.
(31:44):
No, I gotta say everyone checkedfor ad darn Schefter on that.
I know I did. I checkedmultiple times. It's like I'm still uncomfortable
reacting to this. Can I getsomebody else to Can I get like Rappaport
to come in here you or beforeI start getting called? I mean,
it's just insane. It's fourteen minutesaway from four o'clock. Paultanner Junior reading
(32:07):
me in the Athletic. Check outthe podcast and go see tonight seven o'clock
bet MGM Nation Sports Bar and Grill, a live version of The Growler starring
Paul. One more segment with himwhen we come back. It's fourteen away
from four o'clock on ESPN fifteen thirtyCincinnati Sports Station. Prescriptions required on the
It's ten away from four o'clock.This is ESPN fifteen thirty. Moegger Another
(32:30):
few minutes with our friend Paul TannerJr. The Athletic dot Com subscribe,
read his work, and check outthe Growler Podcast again seven o'clock tonight at
BEDMGM and the Nation Bar and Grillat the Banks. You're here, Kelsey
Conway The Inquirer yesterday or last nightwith the story about t Higgins and details
(32:53):
regarding the negotiations that fell apart betweenTA and the team, and so this
sort of created it's a whole newround of discourse over a story that really
hasn't had a whole lot of movementover the last year or so, not
any really, is there any largetakeaway to the Bengals and T Higgins that
I should have? No? Iknow, because where does this matter?
(33:15):
I mean, we can, it'sfine if we want to get into the
blame game and who offered what Imean, these are things that would have
probably gone forward if the negotiations havegone forward to work themselves out right low
balls and you came in too highand I didn't like that. Those things
anybody to go so you end upin the middle or something like that.
(33:36):
And that's but that was sort ofcut off and left at you're going to
play this season on the franchise tag. And so once once it got to
that point, and once everybody knewit was going to get to that point,
which was really before last August,there wasn't There's not really much to
(33:57):
discuss other than why people are sofrustrated. And that's fine, and and
Kelsey has done credit a great jobof reporting this the whole way through.
But I for me, the thingthat matters is the season is the team
and and and that is what itis. Higgins is gonna come here,
He's gonna play this season. He'sgonna have everything to play for. The
(34:21):
Bengals have everything to play for andneed him, and they're trying to win
the Super Bowl. And that's whatthis is about. And then we can
we can open all of these oldwounds next March uh and see what happens
then if they you know, ifthey are if it was a philosophical decision
or if then they do extend him, whatever it is, I think there's
(34:42):
a lot of anybody can play blameand break it down. I I don't.
I care about the end, andI think the end has been solid
as a rock since for a longtime now. And that is franchise tag.
T Higgins is playing on the franchisetag this year and and they'll revisit
it in March. What is onthe to do list for the Bengals between
now and the start of camp?Running back? We mentioned, I think
(35:04):
you got to kick the tires.There probably a linebacker. I surprised there
wasn't a linebacker selected, So whetherit's Marcus Bailey coming back or whatever,
something there and and what we talkedabout, hit the field man, get
the kids to work and figure thatout, because I think those are those
are that being given me the roster. I mean, if you went through
(35:25):
it, and I was going throughit the last couple days for that piece,
I mean, it's solid. It'ssolid. Yeah, it's I'm leaving
picks off left and right. Imean, you're I I think I had
three or four picks that didn't makethe team because there's no there's no spot
on fifty three, and so you'regonna have battles everywhere you've got you've got
I mean, you've got battles forstarting positions. But we were talking about
safety being one of those a lotin the back of the back of the
(35:46):
roster picks that are going to beleft off. There's a lot of competition
there and and a team that feelslike it's going to be built for the
long haul and that in that regard. So I don't think they need to
add much. I don't think that'ssomething where they're they're looking though, of
course, keep their eyes open,but I think they're in pretty good shape.
Anybody else get an extension between nowand then, they should talk to
(36:07):
take care of us. I feltlike this draft was a vindication of the
level they feel like he's currently playingat. Everybody knows what he is as
what he means to the locker room, and you know the way he always
embraces everything that you put in frontof him, including hey, Marius Mims,
let's be the vetter. Let's helpbe the veteran for this guy too.
(36:29):
Immediately out there to dinner with himlike he he is the he's such
a rock in that locker room andhe and he is everything you want at
center. I know the age thing, but I think you got to put
that aside, and he should bea person that you should be talking to
about a one or two year extension. Jud McPherson, Yeah, yeah,
yep, I would think Evan wouldbe one. I mean that Kicker money
is kind of out there at thetemplate. We've seen a few Kicker deals
(36:51):
get done, so I mean they'vethey've got money. I mean, they've
got it sitting around. We've seena couple receivers go in early. I
don't see a world where that happenedbecause I think Jamar is just going to
kick back with his feet up,let everybody get all these deals and see
where it lands for him next year. He doesn't have any reason to go
in early and so but I mean, I'm sure there will maybe be a
preliminary call or two about that,but he's in no rush, and his
(37:15):
stock isn't going anywhere. There's reallynothing that you could really foresee happening.
You know that would that would makeanybody nervous about Jammar not being worth next
year what he's worth right now,And that behooves him to just sit back
and wait. I'm excited for tonight. Uh yeah, I am too.
I am too, and we willfirst thing I will say when I get
in there, before anything about settingup our show, where's the next game?
(37:37):
Right at the same time that yourpodcast starts. So if you're listening
to the podcast archived later this weekand you just hear just ex what is
being screamed for no apparent reason bysomething said by Mike Potts, No,
we'll know where it's coming from.Definitely sounds explain to Mike Potts. Hey,
this guy over here, don't worryabout him. Yeah, you ignore
(37:57):
him? Okay, very good.That's the night starts at seven o'clock at
Nation Bar and Grill and bet MGMSportsbook right there at the banks. We'll
see you then, looking forward toit. Paul Danner Junior, The Athletic
dot Com and The Growler Podcast alwayskind enough to give us time on Tuesdays.
It's coming up on four o'clock onESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports station this week
PN fifteen thirty. What's up,Good afternoon, I'm bull Edgar. This
is ESPN fifteen thirty. Thank youso much for joining us today. I
hope you're having a an awesome Tuesday. We are loaded this afternoon. Paul
Danner Junior is here. Think ofall the things that have happened between Paul's
last visit on Tuesday of last weekand well, what we have in front
(00:22):
of us today. We are broadcastingthis afternoon from the ESPN fifteen thirty Made
Well Restoration Studios, Greater Cincinnati's roofingand exterior restoration experts, Madewell Restoration dot
Com. Paul Danner Junior joins uson Tuesdays. Today's Tuesday. He is
here. He has been just bustingout draft content for the Athletic for the
(00:45):
Growler podcast, which is being donelive tonight at the Banks at the Nation
Bar and Grill Bet MGM Sportsbook.This is gonna be a lot of fun
tonight. Got yourself, you gotJay Morrison out, Mark Shalafu, and
you're gonna be breaking down all ofthe Bengals draft choices with somebody who was
instrumental in choosing the players they took. Yeah, we'll be We'll be there
(01:08):
in Nation, hanging out with BengalsCollege scouting director Mike Potts, who it's
one of my favorite conversations every year. We joked about it last week,
but we had a news conference withhim and he said, you know,
it's so close close to the vestas you get right up on the draft,
but I would love to go intodetail next week. And I thought,
(01:30):
well, that's perfect. This isexactly the time to do it.
And he and and and they haveso many stories. And I've kind of
been talking to a lot of thescouting staff and other people connected to this
draft all week, and you know, the stories behind all of these guys.
It's cool when you start to getto know why they liked them,
not just as the you know theplayers on tape, but as you know
the personalities and why they think theyfit or why they see certain things.
(01:53):
I know we'll get into all ofthat, but that's one of my favorite
conversations all year. And it's beencool that we've kind of, now this
is many years in a row we'vedone this in a live setting because everybody
wants to hear what they can learnabout these guys and why they made the
decisions they made and why they didcertain things and didn't do certain things.
So gonna be great. We'll bedown there seven o'clock in Nation. Come
(02:15):
on down and we're gonna We're gonnahave a lot of fun with it.
It's it's gonna be it's gonna bea great night. TV situation down there
is gonna be okay. The TVsituation is gonna be okay. We will
make sure it has been stated veryexplicitly. We need a screen with a
Knicks game. The good news isthey have about like eight million screens that
are all huge, so I'm positive, okay that a Knicks game will be
(02:38):
on. I am interested in thisconversation tonight because more so than maybe at
any point in recent memory, I'mreally interested in the process. Yeah,
because with so many of these picks, I think the process has to be
explained, and I think there's alot of us. Let's just take a
Marius Mims, for example, theprocess that goes into evaluating him and looking
(03:00):
at what he's put on tape,which by all accounts is impressive, and
weighing that against the relative lack ofexperience, relative lack of experience and eight
starts, sorry, eight starts,sorry, goodness gracious, weighing it against
the eight starts and weighing it againstthings like what Nick Saban had to say
(03:20):
about it. The pick and soprocess for him is interesting. Process for
Eric all is interesting because of injuriesobviously Jermaine Burton. So we'll discuss each
one of those, and I knowyou will tonight. But I think this
was the first time in a longtime where there were so many picks where
I'm a little bit more interested inwhat went into the decision to take those
players versus other options. And we'llget some answers tonight. Yeah, because
(03:43):
this draft, you know, tome was defined by big swings that you
know, we talked a lot aboutdoubles hitter Duke Tobin and the safe and
the high floors, and they havetried to draft that way a lot,
but this was this was different ona There are two, you know,
really most notable picked. I mean, Chris Jenkins is maybe the cleanest prospect
(04:04):
in the history of the NFL draftsOkay, like you, you can't find
better when it comes to person playerperformance, charisma. He's gonna be I
think he's gonna be the voice ofthe defense in two years. But that
put that aside. The two mostprominent picks that are gonna affect Joe Burrow
in this offense. You know,come with those questions about the the other
(04:25):
stuff where the tape is off thecharts, but the other stuff is is
the question. And this team hasoften, you know, pushed the value
of the other stuff up and notpushed the tape down. That's not my
contention, but you know that stuffhas held a ton of weight, and
and so you want to know howdid they become comfortable with that? And
and because I think everybody admits withboth of these guys like that's the stuff
(04:48):
that's gonna decide whether they succeed orfail. Nobody's debating that a Marius Mims
is gonna walk out on that fieldand the and every edge rusher in the
league's be like, oh goodness,gracious, this dude, you kidding me?
Or you don't watch Jermaine Burton playand say, Okay, this is
a real dude here. I mean, no one's say it's the other stuff
(05:10):
that that they did all the workon that they're going to have to stand
by and and know that they're goingto get the most out of them.
And and that's a risk. That'sa risk. But the other thing is,
man, if it hits, Yeah, that's a that is a super
Bowl bet because if it hits onboth of them, I mean, you
have you have weapons galore already andand Joe Burrow the perfect person to light
(05:33):
them up. All right. TheMims pick specifically, a lot of folks
would say, well, what makesme think this isn't going to work is
Cincinnati's track record when it comes todeveloping offensive linemen. I'll counter that by
saying, I don't think they've hada player like this to work with.
No, right, No, there'sa there's I don't know, I don't
(05:54):
know. This is how many Idon't need more than No, this isn't
Deontay Smith, to be fair,it's not even Jona Williams. Jonah Williams
was a Jonah Williams was a double. Jonah Williams was a high floor and
that's what he proved to be.He was a high floor pick. You
knew what you were gonna get.He didn't have traits even in the same
(06:14):
world as this. Okay, andthat's totally fine. But this is a
whole different thing to learn about,and it would be one thing if when
he played it didn't look good.When he played, it looked good,
it looked great. I mean,he wasn't giving up pressures, he wasn't
giving up sacks. Nobody's nobody who'stouching the quarterback. He wasn't flagged.
(06:36):
I mean in that short sample size, you know, that was part of
it. You know. The thingthat I heard about memes and just talking
to people at Georgia. I knowyou've talked to people that have covered Georgia
two was that there. He wasvery much all about the draft, okay,
and I get it. Yeah,when you're that you're thinking about I'm
(06:59):
a first pick. And once heproved himself, you know, they felt
like maybe things for them changed withhim. As far as the approach to
everything was very draft focused. Well, okay, when he gets to the
NFL, won't he be very makingmoney in the NFL focused, which means
going and playing well, And that'swhat everybody's betting on. Everybody has different
(07:20):
motivations, and they're in college,especially these days, those are more out
there than ever. I had nomotivation in college, That's true, you
and I. That's why we didn'treally succeed very much. You know,
That's why I lived at home afterI graduated. Okay, he's not living
at home. He's making many millionsof dollars and and so you project that
(07:43):
maturation. You you project and youyou meet the guy and you say,
I think he's gonna get here andfit right in. You're around the right
people, You're in the right room. Trent Brown and Orlando Brown look like
you, play like you. TedCarris is a is a dynamic leader that
knows how to handle that. Youlove that he's out dinner on Friday night
as part of that group with OrlandoBrown and Amarius Mims' family is like taking
(08:05):
hold of that. That's the stuffyou need, right. So if you
built all this up, you madeall of these picks, and you made
decisions with culture, and you've developedit through winning. You know, this
I think was the draft. Theysaid, let's take advantage of that.
We are uniquely positioned to take advantageof that. More so in the Burton
(08:26):
conversation that we'll get to than theMEM's conversation, but definitely a big part
of the MEM's conversation too, becausegetting the most out of a guy like
that is all pro stuff, isbest player in the draft stuff, the
Burton thing. Because it's a staffthat doesn't have the track record of ignoring
character issues. They've prioritized them.And then if they're going to veer away
(08:50):
from that priority, I assume theywill have really done their homework and put
their time in and vetting this out. I assume this is going to be
okay. Yeah, I think they'rehoping it's gonna be okay. I mean,
I think that's that's assumption to youdo all the homework you can,
right, you know, and youhope that the person comes in and and
(09:11):
you know is affected by those aroundhim. You know, this is it's
the key in whether you're talking aboutin the in that room. Jamar Chase,
Jamar Chase is the perfect example oflet a guy be himself. Let
a guy come in and be hisown personality. Never never push back on
that unless it's against the you know, they're the things that matter for the
(09:33):
team. Right. Lets you letthat guy feel like he's comfortable and can
be himself here. That goes along way with anybody. And then have
that guy be the hardest worker.And then let Jermaine Burton come in and
say watch jamar. Okay, he'sgoofy, he's himself. He's out there
right, he's not afraid to sayand do anything. And he but he
(09:54):
works harder than anyone and and itand it matters to him and he and
he plays butt off on game day. If you follow that, you'll be
fine. You'll find here. AndI think that's the thing that you hope
that you fall into, especially whenyou have a coach like Troy Walters,
who's one of the best. Andhere's the point I want to make at
the end of this, Joe Burrow, Okay, yeah, it's time you
(10:18):
need to turn on I think JoeBurrow needs to turn on the switch here
a little bit. Yeh okay,being instinctively knowing when guys need a hug
and when guys need hard language andwhen, but not really being and no
one's saying, don't be yourself.Don't He's he's not a give the speech
every day like that's not who heis. He is always been in the
(10:39):
lead by example, but knows howto lead the room, understand that people
follow him. These rookies. Burrowis so deeply entrenched as one of the
elite players of the NFL. Atthis point, these rookies come in,
they all have idolized him now andso they will absolutely be afraid of him,
okay, and he needs to becomethat. I think that's the next
(11:01):
stage of his leadership, right isbecoming more of understanding how to wield that
even a little more. And heis he knows more about that than I
ever will. He's forgotten more aboutthat than I ever will. But I
think it's time for him to bea big part of this. And that's
why you pay that guy that money. That's why they loved him because he
had those skills instinctual to him.And I think that's got to be a
(11:22):
part of his next stage with particularlyguys like Mims, guys like Burton,
or really anybody that you feel likeyou know is a key part of this
team winning going forward. Paul DannerJinder covering the Bengals the Athletic dot Com
The Growler Podcast Live version tonight seveno'clock at Nation Bar and Grill and betten
GM Sportsbook at the Banks. He'shere told four that starts tonight at seven
(11:46):
o'clock. We have a lot ofground to cover. We've got the draft.
Since you and I last talked toTrey Hendrickson, He's asked for a
trade and I spent like three dayslaughing at him. Tee Higgins' agent,
make some noise. We have alot to get to. Yeah, yeah,
a lot of talk, lots totalk about. Follow Paul on social
media at Paul Dayner Junior. It'ssixteen after three o'clock on ESPN fifteen thirty
(12:11):
Cincinnati Sports Station. In fifteen thirtyMoeger Paul Dayn Junior is here covering the
Bengals. You've written like five thingssince the draft. Yeah. I don't
how many Moore Hoby podcasts have youdone. I think let's see one each
night, four or five tonight sinceday one started. Yeah, and then
plus the we did the two leadups that were pretty big to Mega mock,
(12:33):
and we did the we did theone on the Wednesday before. Has
your little league baseball coaching suffered beencompromised with all this work? Let me
tell you one of the most impressiveperformances of my life was the fact that
I was actually standing out there atnine am on Saturday morning. After really
back as late as I did.We had a nine am game out about
twenty minutes from our house, managedto we all got there, managed to
(12:56):
make it. I thought the teamplayed extraordinary well, a lot of hustle
all over the field really yep.Gave out the game balls and went down
to the stadium for another ten hoursof pain. Wow. It was great.
Never been more impressed. Yeah,I mean, I don't know about
that, but it was. Iwas just happy to be standing. It
is many late nights, but youknow, it's fun. It was fun.
(13:18):
How much are we going to loveChris Jenkins. I'm already, like,
I'm already beaming, Like everybody.Everybody that you talk to when his
name is mentioned has that reaction.They just start like they beam and they
want to tell you the stories.I mean. So they did a different
thing in this year with the secondround picks, because they would bring them
(13:39):
in in the past, and there'susually like a media junket of everybody set
up cameras all across and everyone getstheir one on ones, and that existed
and if people wanted, but forthe writers, we had you know,
we're in the media room, thedraft is going on, so it's hard
for us to like. So theythey just brought the guys in off the
record, we're all just sitting aroundthere, meet and greet, getting to
(14:01):
know them. I mean, there'sa lot of us in there. I
mean there was probably fifteen people atleast sitting around in a circle, half
working, half talking to him.And he held court like he was running
for mayor and already won. Imean, he's so charismatic, you get
it. I mean, and hewas a great communicator, talked about his
(14:24):
points, you know, he talkedabout how you know it was questioned.
Kelsey Conway had a great part ofthe conversation talking about, you know,
people questioning your size, are youbig enough? And his point was he
was emphasizing a million times I amnot Aaron Donald, and no one is
saying that, But the same conceptto that answer applies, like was Aaron
Donald big enough? No, buthe was insanely strong and knew how to
(14:46):
use his leverage and that helped himmake plays. That's what Chris feels like
he does. So when people talkabout his size and how look at the
numbers, how many run stops hemakes, and how good he is in
making those splash plays in the rungame. That's a matter of understanding how
to use that power and then whathappens, and then it's time for Dan
Horde and Chris Jenkins to do theMoeger Turkish get up video and and and
(15:11):
he plays it off like he ishe's just like he's a stand up on
the side. Yeah, I meanit was. It was incredible. I
know you you've tweeted that out,but I very much enjoyed that whole thing
too, So he and I justthought. I thought he was a dream
pick for them. The fact thathe lasted the whole I mean I had
him up there a number, youknow, the top of what I was
stalking for them for ten picks ofHe's the nut top of their board,
(15:35):
and he just wasn't there. Andthat was the case for them as well,
right and there was It's the onlyI was told it was the only
time they were really nervous all allweekend about should we trade up? But
they felt like there was a coupleother guys on the board that they also
did like that kind of made themsay, no, let's just stay.
I think there's a chance Jenkins couldmake it through this. And they dig
(15:58):
They didn't want to give up anyany of the draft capital they had to
and and it worked out perfectly forthem because he's a for what they needed,
for what he is, what hewas at Michigan, what they value
dream dream pick at forty nine.Overall, they take two tight ends and
no running backs. How do thosethings combined to tell us how they plan
on deploying their personnel on the field. I the running back portion was the
(16:22):
surprise for me, not the twotight ends, not for the fact.
I just think those late picks.Their strategy was, let's just pick guys
that we are surprised, fell thatwe have high on our board almost no
matter where, double ups, youknow whatever. They just wanted to use
those all those late picks to takea bunch of extra swings and see what
(16:45):
happens. So, you know,McLaughlin coming there in round six when you
already took all I just think that'sa how's he still here? Right?
And so they just take him.Not having a single running back and ten
picks, though, I think itsays a lot about well, their confidence
(17:07):
in the combination of Moss and Brownto really soak up all of that and
be the true one two combo.Confidence in Travon what Travon Williams showed you
to be a third guy, andthat they maybe they have their eyes on
a free agent that could be comein if they really if they needed somebody
to go do that. I notedin my depth chart piece on offension,
(17:27):
Jerk McKinnon's still out there. Maybehe's somebody that they could go after.
There's there's there's running backs that areout there. Ezekiel Elliott no longer out
there, just like a couple ofyears ago. Still not something they ever
considered. But so maybe that's whatthat is. But I just think it's
that was more about feeling like theMoss Brown combo is a stronghold there and
(17:49):
and the running back thing just didn'tquite didn't quite hit them, or they
just you know, who knows.But I just think it's more about that
and less about some great and personnelchange. They're not going to come out
there running thirteen personnel every play.I do think they have And I touched
on this the other day too,and I think there's a lot more to
(18:11):
be done about this. They haveso much more potential after this draft to
run more of a positionless football versatilething that they're eleven personnel or they're twelve
personnel. If you're talking about Gazikiand Sample being out there or just Gisiki
being out there to go into thehuddle and the defense has no idea what's
coming out of them, you knowwhere they could go in there and go
(18:33):
so many different ways between Burton's flexibility, Chase's flexibility, Gasiki's flexibility. There's
a lot more dynamic stuff there.And even you know some of the line
some of the line players, they'reflexibility. What you could imagine, run
up, run the big run thenew I guess the Sincinnice skyline we're going
with, Yes, yeah, runthem out there, offset the three of
(18:55):
them in a row, and thenChase Brown as you go between their legs
like you could do. There's lotsof different stuff that you can do.
But I think the weapons versatility standsout to me now with this team of
what they could do with all thosedifferent pieces where it looks the same at
the beginning and they can run thewhole playbook out of it all right.
On Friday, on Thursday of lastweek, Trey Hendrickson, we find out
(19:17):
he has asked for a trade,and we have to spend some time talking
about that. We'll take long I'vehad an immense amount of fun laughing at
him, and maybe maybe I shouldn'tbe having as much fun as I am.
But there's one more draft related thingI want to get to, and
it's it's really just to me now, the subsequent question that hovers over the
next four months. So I'll askit to you when we come back.
(19:38):
He's Paul Danner Junior Tonight, seveno'clock, Nation Bar and Gerrill Bet MGM
at the Banks The Growler Live.Yes, seven pm. Gonna be a
blast. Mike Potts will be there. Yeah, it's gonna be fun.
Jay Morrison will be there. Yes, Mark Shalife will be there. Yeah,
the whole crew. You I'm coming, You're coming, I'm coming.
Stationed in front of the Nick Sixersgame. Yeah, correct, close out,
(20:02):
close out drinks, close out drinks. You know. Mark is a
big Knicks fantigue, same Knicks fan. Yeah. Yeah, you guys will
be sweating it. I'm excited towatch the apologies in advance. It's twenty
nine minutes after three o'clock. He'shere till four. We are on the
air till six. ESPN fifteen thirtyCincinnati Sports Station Cincy three sixty with Tony
Pike. Do we want to moveon or doctor Keith Gorse and Boston Elmore,
(20:25):
I think you should continue. Letme keep going there Sincy three sixty
tomorrow which twelve News on ESPN fifteenthirty Cincinnati's esc Chevrol home of lifetime power
train protection and guaranteed credit approval fromtheir family to yours for life. Kelseyshev
dot com Red try to make ittwo in a road tonight. They're in
San Diego, second of three againstthe Padres, Nick Martinez and five time
(20:49):
All Star You Darvish on the hillthis evening, nine to forty tonight on
seven hundred WLW. The starting lineup. You can't complain about it yet because
it's not out. Ian continues tohave issues. He has been returned from
his rehab assignment, and then they'llfigure out what the next steps are.
Congratulations to a Ret Louder, theDayton Dragon, Red's farm hand and one
(21:11):
of their top pitching prospects, namedthe Midwest League Pitcher of the Week.
Paul Danner. Jenner's here from theAthletic and the Growler podcast, which is
being done live tonight at seven o'clockat Nation Bar and grill at the Banks
downtown. You did sort of atwo part look at the roster now in
the aftermath of the draft, onepart offense, the other part defense.
(21:33):
To me, the central question lookis Joe gonna be on the field normal
offseason all that stuff. But morethan anything else, the central question I
have between now and at least midwaythrough training camp is how significantly better is
this defense compared to last year.Yeah, and that's a big one,
and I think that will be exactlylike you said, the question of this
(21:56):
time of year, and we haveopenly, i think for good reason,
made fun of this time of year. Yeah. You know, country club
Bengals have been a thing the lastfew years. They have. They this
is where they feel like they buya little bit from their players. Hey,
you know what, We'll give youthis and just know when you come
in, be ready to go.When we were going to ask for a
lot of you in this season,and they've traded that a little bit.
(22:19):
I think with this defense in particular, with a lot of the young guys
in particular with Dax Hill specifically,this is gonna be a little bit more
labor intensive and heavy this this timeof year because they have so much riding
on the development of their young guys. I mean you look at you look
(22:41):
at their secondary and extract Mike Hilton. It's you know, now you're adding
you're adding Josh Newton into this mix. That has Cam Taylor, Britta and
DJ Turner in year two and DaxHill making a move over to corner and
your three, so that's kind ofa startover for him and Jordan Battle And
I mean look, I mean it'sall kids, yeah and so, and
(23:02):
we heard last year they're betting onthe year one the year two. They
took their lumps last year. Sobecause in year two they're gonna be ready
to go, Well, that doesn'thappen magically. You need to see it,
see the progress. And this isgoing to be an important run for
them to show that. In thesecondary in particular, you're seeing those gains,
You're seeing it look crisper, You'reseeing a better understanding of how everything
(23:25):
is supposed to run, maybe evenoccasionally at full speed in practice, right
like you're allowed during the very specificportions of time. So that to me
is going to be a big partof this time of year for them.
I do think they should be better. I think that they've made improvements there,
but you know it's really mostly contingenton all of those new pieces coming
(23:51):
together. I mean, you've gotpotentially two new starting safeties. Even though
Vondelle's old, he's new again.Geno Stone's news. Is he gonna be
us? Is he there was twice? Is he a Baltimore scheme fit a
creation of that? Or is hegonna come in here and still be the
same guy. That's got to besomething you got. All of that needs
to get vetted out between now andthen for them to be better. There's
way more change this year than therewas even last year. So you know,
(24:15):
I shrug it. Whether it's gonnabe better or not. It seems
hard for it to be too muchworse considering what we watched. But you
know, it's gonna be important tofeel You're gonna they better feel pretty comfortable
by the time they get to midAugust about what's happening. Well, the
thing is like, because of whatwe think or what we know, the
offense can be. It's not likefor the Bengals to win eleven to twelve
(24:37):
games or more that they have tohave a top three defense like that.
That's not the requirement right at thesame time, do I trust them to
get stops when they need to?At some point the defense is going to
be asked to win a game forthem, and specifically I expect them to
be better because frankly, it reallycan't get much worse. But how good
is their best? What is theceiling? You know what I mean?
(25:00):
I think they could. I thinkthey could very easily be in that range
that they were in in twenty twentytwo and twenty twenty one. I don't
think. I don't think that isthat good? Is that possible? Yeah?
Nine, sign me up for that. Yeah. I just think we
over we overblow things. Sometimes wespend too much time breaking it down.
How about just just cut back thecut the explosives in half and you're good.
(25:22):
Fine, rank in the middle ofthe pack in explosives allowed. Don't
have the massive busts on the backend. And that's why you have potentially
two new starting safeties this year andsome other moves that have happened, so
that if that happens, if youcan play the type of defense that Luin
Remo wants to play, which isthat make them earn it, bend but
don't break, you know, getyour red zone turnovers. Points yards not
(25:45):
point. You know, it's allit's what it's all about, technically,
points not yards. I'm sorry,points not yard. Yes, I thought
it was we give you the yards. We don't give you the point.
We don't give you the points.Yeah, it's all about points or what
matters. But talk to me aboutyards. Talking about points is what he
and that's fine, and they andthey have they have done. They've won
plenty of games with that strategy.And I don't, I don't, I
(26:06):
don't. You know, I havea problem with it. But you know,
you have a massive problem that wasa disaster last year to fix in
that regard, and that is aboutthe explosives, and so you know that's
got to get fixed. Is everybodylaughing at Trey Hendrickson as much as I
am? Yeah? I think so. I just is there a soul on
(26:29):
the planet that believed, even himthat he was would ever consider like retiring?
No, no, no one thinksthat that. You're gonna you want
more money, but you're gonna walkaway from sixteen and fifteen million dollars cash
the next two years. You justwalk away from that. But you want
to be paid more. Either you'reworth more, you're like one of the
(26:49):
craziest competitors and that we've ever seen. Yeah, uh, you know,
I no one believes that, right, And you just signed this contract like
everyone knows what happened. Yes,you just signed this extension last year and
got a raise in the year addedon through twenty twenty five. So this
is just kind of you signed this. Yeah, and so it's I don't
(27:11):
think that there's many people that arekind that are taking it very seriously,
any of it really. But whatfrustrates me is not that he requested a
trade, and not that I thinkthat this is going to divide the locker
room or be a huge distraction.But it sends not a ton of people,
(27:36):
but it sends enough to these familiarplaces where you have to listen to
how see, this is what youget for cheap ownership, and I'm going
cheap ownership. This is this issmart football. They signed a guy for
one more year through basically his agethirty one season. They get him at
a very manageable rate for guy thathad seventeen and a half sacks. That's
not cheap. That's effective, that'sefficient. That's that's what you want.
(28:00):
But whenever there is a player herewhere you see trade request, it sends
people, you know, down thisthis rabbit hole of we have to go
talk about Carson Palmer again, andwe have to go talk about players who
have demanded they're a trade when theywere playing for the Bengals when they aren't
what they have been in recent years. And maybe that doesn't matter to them,
(28:22):
and maybe it shouldn't matter to me, but it does. I mean
with Trey's situation in particular, Imean, was anyone calling them cheap when
they signed Trey and free agency forthat contract. No, people said they
overpaid, Yes, that they spenttoo much, Right, that wasn't cheap.
And when they spent more money infree agency over the course of those
two off seasons than anyone was werepeople calling them cheap. No, people
(28:48):
have problems with the method in whichthey spend in some of these. To
me, these are decisions things,and there's nothing about what has happened with
Trey Hendrickson that is a cheap team. It is they overpaid him and then
that turned to be in their favoron the that bet turn to be in
their favor on the back half,and they still did a ma solid and
gave him a raise in an extrayear. Yeh, on that on that
(29:11):
end. So the whole Trey Hendricksonthing has been they've spent more. That's
been the opposite of cheap with him. Now his contract is a great value
because of that the other things.I mean, whether we're talking about t
Higgins, you get into the decisionof should you pay that the quarterback and
the two receivers is not the notthe do they have the money on hand.
(29:36):
It's a matter of roster construction,not of cheapness, you know.
And and this is the same teamthat made Joe Burrow the richest quarterback when
everyone's like, oh, are theygoing to come with a home two hundred
and nineteen guaranteed? Like none ofthat, none of that exists in these
other conversations. But these are leveragemethods that every player uses. That you
(29:57):
see these all the time. Butwhen it does happen with the Bengals,
it does make people want to saythat because that's just the reputation that exists.
And that's fine and willfully being lazy. Have you been around this country,
mo, Yeah, it kind ofdefines us. Yeah, willfully lazy,
willfully lazy. It's easier to justsay a lot of the same things,
and people have accused me of suchthings, which I but people say
(30:19):
a lot of the same things,excuse you of being lazy. No,
I'm saying a lot of the samethings. Okay, Oh, God knows,
I get that accusation the right.That's fine. I am awfully,
wilfully lazy too. I think there'scertain things that people just put in their
heads and believe, and it's andit's easy for outsiders and national to say
that, especially when you're in asituation that you're not as well covered as
(30:41):
other teams. Yeah, that's allall right. Well, I just I
don't know why I'm fascinated by thissituation because it's just so goofy it is.
I just, you know, sometimesI just I just think sometimes somebody
just you just try, just wantsto people to know, like, hey,
I should get more money. Waseveryone agrees you're you've outperformed it,
(31:02):
right? I signed it twice.I was on the air at about five
forty last Wednesday, and I lookat Twitter and there's the Adam Schefter tweet.
There are very few things, especiallyin the current environment we live in
that I'm genuinely like taking aback andI got to make sure I'm reading that
right. It's not adarn Schefter.This is real. Okay, wait a
(31:23):
minute, trick, this is aand then then I'm at odds with myself.
It's like I could swear he justsigned a contract extension. Yeah,
I could swear that just happened withinthe last year. And then I doubt
myself. And but the weird it'sjust it's it's a goofy situation. Yeah,
and I'm incredibly amused by it butalso somewhat frustrated by it. Yeah.
(31:44):
No, I gotta say everyone checkedfor ad darn Schefter on that.
I know I did. I checkedmultiple times. It's like I'm still uncomfortable
reacting to this. Can I getsomebody else to Can I get like Rappaport
to come in here you or beforeI start getting called? I mean,
it's just insane. It's fourteen minutesaway from four o'clock. Paultanner Junior reading
(32:07):
me in the Athletic. Check outthe podcast and go see tonight seven o'clock
bet MGM Nation Sports Bar and Grill, a live version of The Growler starring
Paul. One more segment with himwhen we come back. It's fourteen away
from four o'clock on ESPN fifteen thirtyCincinnati Sports Station. Prescriptions required on the
It's ten away from four o'clock.This is ESPN fifteen thirty. Moegger Another
(32:30):
few minutes with our friend Paul TannerJr. The Athletic dot Com subscribe,
read his work, and check outthe Growler Podcast again seven o'clock tonight at
BEDMGM and the Nation Bar and Grillat the Banks. You're here, Kelsey
Conway The Inquirer yesterday or last nightwith the story about t Higgins and details
(32:53):
regarding the negotiations that fell apart betweenTA and the team, and so this
sort of created it's a whole newround of discourse over a story that really
hasn't had a whole lot of movementover the last year or so, not
any really, is there any largetakeaway to the Bengals and T Higgins that
I should have? No? Iknow, because where does this matter?
(33:15):
I mean, we can, it'sfine if we want to get into the
blame game and who offered what Imean, these are things that would have
probably gone forward if the negotiations havegone forward to work themselves out right low
balls and you came in too highand I didn't like that. Those things
anybody to go so you end upin the middle or something like that.
(33:36):
And that's but that was sort ofcut off and left at you're going to
play this season on the franchise tag. And so once once it got to
that point, and once everybody knewit was going to get to that point,
which was really before last August,there wasn't There's not really much to
(33:57):
discuss other than why people are sofrustrated. And that's fine, and and
Kelsey has done credit a great jobof reporting this the whole way through.
But I for me, the thingthat matters is the season is the team
and and and that is what itis. Higgins is gonna come here,
He's gonna play this season. He'sgonna have everything to play for. The
(34:21):
Bengals have everything to play for andneed him, and they're trying to win
the Super Bowl. And that's whatthis is about. And then we can
we can open all of these oldwounds next March uh and see what happens
then if they you know, ifthey are if it was a philosophical decision
or if then they do extend him, whatever it is, I think there's
(34:42):
a lot of anybody can play blameand break it down. I I don't.
I care about the end, andI think the end has been solid
as a rock since for a longtime now. And that is franchise tag.
T Higgins is playing on the franchisetag this year and and they'll revisit
it in March. What is onthe to do list for the Bengals between
now and the start of camp?Running back? We mentioned, I think
(35:04):
you got to kick the tires.There probably a linebacker. I surprised there
wasn't a linebacker selected, So whetherit's Marcus Bailey coming back or whatever,
something there and and what we talkedabout, hit the field man, get
the kids to work and figure thatout, because I think those are those
are that being given me the roster. I mean, if you went through
(35:25):
it, and I was going throughit the last couple days for that piece,
I mean, it's solid. It'ssolid. Yeah, it's I'm leaving
picks off left and right. Imean, you're I I think I had
three or four picks that didn't makethe team because there's no there's no spot
on fifty three, and so you'regonna have battles everywhere you've got you've got
I mean, you've got battles forstarting positions. But we were talking about
safety being one of those a lotin the back of the back of the
(35:46):
roster picks that are going to beleft off. There's a lot of competition
there and and a team that feelslike it's going to be built for the
long haul and that in that regard. So I don't think they need to
add much. I don't think that'ssomething where they're they're looking though, of
course, keep their eyes open,but I think they're in pretty good shape.
Anybody else get an extension between nowand then, they should talk to
(36:07):
take care of us. I feltlike this draft was a vindication of the
level they feel like he's currently playingat. Everybody knows what he is as
what he means to the locker room, and you know the way he always
embraces everything that you put in frontof him, including hey, Marius Mims,
let's be the vetter. Let's helpbe the veteran for this guy too.
(36:29):
Immediately out there to dinner with himlike he he is the he's such
a rock in that locker room andhe and he is everything you want at
center. I know the age thing, but I think you got to put
that aside, and he should bea person that you should be talking to
about a one or two year extension. Jud McPherson, Yeah, yeah,
yep, I would think Evan wouldbe one. I mean that Kicker money
is kind of out there at thetemplate. We've seen a few Kicker deals
(36:51):
get done, so I mean they'vethey've got money. I mean, they've
got it sitting around. We've seena couple receivers go in early. I
don't see a world where that happenedbecause I think Jamar is just going to
kick back with his feet up,let everybody get all these deals and see
where it lands for him next year. He doesn't have any reason to go
in early and so but I mean, I'm sure there will maybe be a
preliminary call or two about that,but he's in no rush, and his
(37:15):
stock isn't going anywhere. There's reallynothing that you could really foresee happening.
You know that would that would makeanybody nervous about Jammar not being worth next
year what he's worth right now,And that behooves him to just sit back
and wait. I'm excited for tonight. Uh yeah, I am too.
I am too, and we willfirst thing I will say when I get
in there, before anything about settingup our show, where's the next game?
(37:37):
Right at the same time that yourpodcast starts. So if you're listening
to the podcast archived later this weekand you just hear just ex what is
being screamed for no apparent reason bysomething said by Mike Potts, No,
we'll know where it's coming from.Definitely sounds explain to Mike Potts. Hey,
this guy over here, don't worryabout him. Yeah, you ignore
(37:57):
him? Okay, very good.That's the night starts at seven o'clock at
Nation Bar and Grill and bet MGMSportsbook right there at the banks. We'll
see you then, looking forward toit. Paul Danner Junior, The Athletic
dot Com and The Growler Podcast alwayskind enough to give us time on Tuesdays.
It's coming up on four o'clock onESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports station this week
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