7/12/24 - The Mo Egger Radio Show - Mo Egger

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty. My producerTarren Bland just said to me, feel
free to start singing. I don'tthink anybody wants that to happen. I
don't always have my finger on thepulse of our audience, but I feel
comfortable in saying that I'm gonna guessnobody. Nobody wants me to sing good

(00:24):
afternoon on my legger. This isESPN fifteen thirty. We're broadcasting out and
about this is awesome. We're atthe Holy Grail downtown Cincinnati, right across
the street from GABP Reds and Marlins. Tonight final series before the All Star
Break. It has been you know, you don't want to say it's been
a great homestand because they're three andfour on the homestand but after what they

(00:45):
did against the Detroit Tigers this pastweekend, you know we all said,
at minimum they got to take threeout of four from Colorado. They did
another bad team in town tonight threewith the Marlins. If the Reds can
sweep this series, and I'll behonest with you, they should. They
could sweep this series. They willgo into the All Star Break a game
under five hundred I think it'll beinteresting if that's the case, to kind

(01:07):
of gauge how everybody feels about wherethey are at the All Star break.
First things first, before the Redsplay tonight, come on out to the
Holy Grail. We're here till six. No better plays to post up.
If you're going to the ballpark,or even if you're not going to go
to the ballpark but you want towatch the game. Celtic Fest is happening
right down the street. I've nevergone to Celtic Fest, but you know,

(01:30):
maybe this weekend Celtic Fest, I'llhit it up and also swing by
the Holy Grail. It's an awesomeplace. We cannot thank them enough for
having us and thrilled to be here. Join us between now and six o'clock.
Have a nice cold Mick Ultra perhaps, and we'll get it done.
In addition to the Reds and Marlinson the field this weekend, this is
also the weekend of the MLB Draft. The draft starts and the Reds have

(01:55):
the second overall pick. They didn'twin the lottery, I guess, but
well, they finished eighty two toeighty last year. They were not one
of the two worst teams in baseball, and yet they still walk away with
the number two overall pick, behindthe Cleveland Guardians who have the top pick.
So this means we got to getour guy on one of my favorite
people to talk baseball with, ChrisCrawford. This dude is with NBC Sports

(02:16):
Rodeo World. He is my guywhen it comes to the draft, prospects
and you know, farm systems.So we're gonna get into all that.
He'll tell us which player we shouldhope the Reds take with the second overall
pick. We are also going totalk about rees Hines because rees Shigns has,
I guess maybe slowed down a little, but has been one of the

(02:38):
bigger stories of the week in allof baseball his historically awesome debut and I
think a lot of folks wondering,Okay, is this going to be a
flash in the pan? Do theReds really have something here? Is he
going to be the next Aristidas Akino? I don't think he's the next Aristid
He's a Kino. But Chris haswatched a lot of Reshigins and so Chris
is going to talk with us abouthim as well. Well. All that

(03:00):
coming up at three twenty a littlebit later on Steve Cangelosi is going to
be on this show. He iscalling for Apple TV the match on Saturday
Tomorrow night between FC Cincinnati and Charlotte, and we are looking forward to that.
And I put something on social mediathis week about Joe Burrow that I
didn't think was that taky. Ididn't think it was that controversial, but

(03:24):
I got called a homer for puttingon Twitter what I put out about Joe
Burrow, and so we'll spend sometime on that as well. The game
yesterday, the story was Hunter Greenand let's be honest, that's a bad
Colorado team. And you could lookat the standings and arrive at that conclusion
if you watched any of the lastfour games, even the one day one,

(03:46):
you could probably arrive at that conclusion. Hunter Green struck out the first
six batters yesterday, another very goodstart for Hunter another start emblematic of an
All Star season, by the way, for what it's worth, and I
think this is great. Paul Skeinsof the Pirates, who had a no
hitter through seven innings yesterday, isgoing to start for the National League in
the All Star Game. And thatis one thousand percent the correct decision,

(04:13):
and we're gonna spend more time onthat later on. Hunter is an All
Star. Whether or not he pitchesin the game, we'll see. I
hope he does. David Bell willbe there as obviously part of the coaching
staff for the National League. Butmore than anything else, I know this
isn't the first time I've talked aboutthis, but it bears repeating because sometimes
there's such a hyper focus on whatplayers are making and what their contract status

(04:39):
is and whether or not they're goingto be re signed. The Reds and
Hunter Green I have locked into anagreement which buys out his first free agency
year, guarantees his salary for theremainder of the years that he was under
team control. What stood out toa lot of people, and I get
how this. What stands out isthe possible overall value of the deal ninety

(05:04):
six million dollars. Ninety six milliondollars now, Hunter Green this year is
making about three point three which makeshim the one hundred and first highest paid
pitcher in the sport. Hunter Greenis not eligible for a pay raise at
the end of this year because they'vealready locked in to twenty twenty five.

(05:28):
What his salary is going to be, and so he's gonna get a raise,
but he can't negotiate when he can'tgo to arbitration. They've already guaranteed
what that dollar amount is going tobe. If you look at what he's
going to make on a yearly basisand put it in twenty twenty four terms,
he is unlikely to ever be oneof the top thirty highest paid players
in the sport. We give theReds a lot of grief for some of

(05:53):
the things that they have done,and that's what comes with the territory when
you've mostly lost for decades and decades. But if you're gonna be fair,
I think you have to acknowledge herethat with Hunter Green, they've done something
really, really smart. He wasgoing to pitch for him anyway, But
can you imagine possibly having to goto the negotiating table with Hunter If what

(06:15):
we have seen so far from himin the first half he improves upon in
the second half, they're already goingto be He's already going to be an
All Star. You would already benegotiating with a guy who made the National
League All Star Team. But ifwhat he is doing, if he continues
in the direction that he has gonefor most of this season. Can can

(06:35):
you imagine having to sit down atthe negotiating table with him and his agent
after this year? You don't haveto. And look, they've done nothing
to guarantee that he is going tobe here past the age of twenty nine.
They have done nothing to guarantee thatone day he won't pitch for someone
else. But at the very leastthey have avoided having to give him more

(06:56):
money than perhaps they would like becausethey did something really, really smart.
I guess the question is, isthere anybody else they have worth doing that
with? With the possible exception ofEllie daylor Cruz not all the news this
week has been great, So HunterGreen was awesome yesterday, and since about

(07:18):
midway through the twenty twenty two season, we have talked about the big three,
Hunter Green, Nicolodolo, and GrahamAshcraft. Graham Ashcraft is now on
the interro list, and it's beenit's been a bad year for Graham.
It's been real a weird week.If you recall, and I'm sure you

(07:40):
do, he was originally sent toLouisville, then they rescinded that option and
instead put him on the injured listbecause of elbow discomfort. He's got the
platelet rich plasma injection that may ormay not be a precursor to something more

(08:01):
serious, more significant. He's notgoing to be doing any throwing for the
next two weeks. They want tosee how his elbow responds to the treatment,
and hopefully it responds well, andmaybe Graham Ashcraft pitches for the Reds
again this year, or maybe heends up having surgery and then a Graham

(08:22):
Ashcraft not only doesn't help the Redsfor the rest of twenty twenty four,
his twenty twenty five is obviously inserious jeopardy as well. I think we
have to remove Graham Ashcraft from theBig three. And I know this is,
you know, mostly symbolic, butI think we need to if we

(08:48):
haven't already take Graham Ashcraft out andinsert Andrew Abbott, and maybe you already
had a Big four, I kindof did. Like, first of all,
he hasn't pitched all that well.He's been demoted once, he had
been demoted a second time, andnow he's suffering from an injury for the

(09:11):
second consecutive year. Two years ago, Graham Ashcraft did a lot of things
that made you feel really good abouthis future, so much so that we
started to talk about the big three. We started to talk about Graham Ashcraft
with Hunter Green and Nicolodolo and thatbeing the foundation of what the Reds were
gonna do next. I think inpart because Hunter Green has been so good,

(09:33):
in part because when he's been healthy, Nicolodola has been so good,
and then obviously in part because ofeverything that Graham Ashcraft has gone through from
lack of performance to now injury.I don't know that I view him in
the same light. I don't knowthat I view him right now as a
key component of what the Reds aregoing to be moving forward. There are

(09:54):
just right now too many unknowns.There's also some other guys in the system
who are pushing to be on thestaff sooner rather than later. Uh.
I've talked a lot about how intwenty twenty four the rest of the season,
regardless of whether or not the Redsmake a push to get to the
playoffs, what they really need todo is figure out truly who are the

(10:16):
guys worth building around in twenty twentyfive, and then once you figure that
out, legitimately build around them.I don't know that we can include Graham
Ashcraft in that conversation. His performanceis the main reason why. But when
you add to it injury, andwhen you add to it recurrence of injury,
boy, it's even more difficult tomake him a big part of what

(10:39):
you're thinking about beyond twenty twenty four. Uh, we're on location here at
the Holy Grail, but our phonesare working five point three seven four nine
fifteen thirty and eight six six sevenh two three seven seven six. There's
a lot going on this weekend.Reds and Marlins draft starts on Sunday night.
Reds have the second overall pick.Uh. I like what they've done
with the draft, kind of tyingit into All Star Week. I also

(11:03):
like the fact that we now havea lottery which disincentivizes tanking, which I
hope goes away permanently. Red's havethe second overall pick. Who do we
want them to get? Our expertChris Crawford tells us next we're at the
Holy Grail downtown Cincinnati. It's aquarter raft for three. You'll hear from
David Bell and Hunter Green coming upin just about twenty minutes as well.
On ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports StationCincinnati's I think we're doing a draft show

(11:28):
for the MLB Draft, are weNo? Okay, I'm just trying to
make sure that it wasn't happening andmy guy was not invited herselfing to be
a part of it. I likedoing draft shows. Baseball draft starts on
Sunday. It obviously doesn't come withthe hype and excitement of the NFL Draft
or the NBA Draft, but it'sstill very, very important Reds have the

(11:50):
second overall pick when it comes tothe draft. Our go to guy is
Chris Crawford, NBC Sports, rodeO World, also KJR and Iheartrate in
Seattle. You're a busy man,Chris, I appreciate it. Let's start
with this. It's good. Iguess in any year when you have the
second overall pick, some years it'sbetter than others. I guess based on

(12:13):
the talent pool that's available. Sois this one of those years? Is
this a good year to have thesecond overall pick? I think any year
is a good year to have thesecond overall pick. There are certainly better
years than others. I think thisis a really good year. To have
the second overall pick for a coupleof reasons. Number one, there's three

(12:33):
or four elite players in this class, and so that's good. The problem
also is after those top three orfour, this draft class really lacked the
quantity and quality that you would looklike. I can't remember where Cincinnati was
supposed to pick before the lottery.I can't remember where I put my car

(12:54):
keys. How am I supposed toremember where the Cincinnati read we're supposed to
pick. But if they were pickingin that slot, it would not be
a good year to have that typeof pick. But because of the college
bat, because there is some upsidewith those plays, I do believe,
to answer your question very long wiggedly, that it is a very good year
to have the number two things.All right, So obviously one guy's going

(13:15):
to come off the board that's goingto leave the Reds with their pick of
a handful of elite players. Asyou put it, who's the guy that
I want? I think that theguy that you want is going to be
the guy that you get, andthat I think is Charlie Common, an
outfielder's last third baseman, almost assertinglythird baseman, and where even some question
marks about that position. This guy. I mean, you've all seen the

(13:37):
stats. They're absolutely bonkers. Thisguy has elite power and you can't help
but think playing in that ballpark,gapv The or GABP excuse me that he
couldn't hit forty to forty five homerson a regular basis. It's that type
of power. But it's not justthat one tool. He is a plus
hit tool. He has a verystrong throwing arm. It could play in

(13:58):
right field, for sure. Hehas the athleticism for it, but it'll
certainly play at the hot corner fora few years. And you know what,
it'll help with cut off throws ifyou have to move, make the
move to first base. I likeTravis Benzana. I think Jock Kesianogley has
a chance to be a really niceplayer. I don't believe in the two
way stuff that much with him,but just the terms of high ceiling,

(14:18):
high floor, I believe that Charliekom Doun is the best player in this
draft. All right, high ceiling, high floor college guy. Does that
mean if he's the guy at numbertwo, I could see him a great
American ballpark reasonably soon. Yeah?Absolutely, I think that it wouldn't be
an upset at all if he wasplaying in twenty twenty five. Now,
what that on it for every PaulSchemes. We see a bunch of these

(14:39):
guys who end up taking a coupleof years of development. But I think
that's one of the reasons why you'retaking a number two is because the offensive
skill set is so advanced. Herecognizes pitch as well. Obviously the power
is not hypothetical here. We haveseen what this guy can do in terms
of taking the ball out of theballpark. Now, some of this might
depend on what they do with himdefensively. You know, if they want

(15:01):
him to play in the outfield,maybe it takes a little bit longer because
you've got some stuff to work outthere. But if you made the move
just to third base, I thinkthis is absolutely somebody who could be helping
you. You know, if Iput an eta on, it's sometime around
the All Star break twenty twenty five, if not certainly helping you in twenty
twenty six, let's let's kind oftalk about beyond the first round. And

(15:22):
you know, obviously there's this isgoing to take place over multiple days,
but like, where's Where's where's thestrength in this draft? Where just a
team like the Reds, where canthey get better during this year's draft process.
You know, that's probably the nicething for Cincinnati as well, is
that there aren't a lot of elitehigh school bats. There's only two that

(15:43):
I would give first round first roundgrades to in Connor Griffin and Bryce Rainier.
But there are some high school batsthat I think make sense in that
second round range. Second round range. Excuse me, some guys like Theo
Gillen if he was to slip,there's been some talking goes high fifteen,
but I could see him flighting intothat range. Kellen Lindsay, one of
the best athletes in the draft,eighty grade runner, a really good defensive

(16:07):
player, think that he would makesense in that range. Thinking of guys
like Griffith Ferrell, who is aguy that's kind of reminds me a little
bit of it gets Gunner Henderson comparisons. I don't think that's fair, but
I kind of see the similar schoolstill skill set because everything has a chance
to be above average. Obviously,nobody predicted Gunner Henderson to be this type

(16:30):
of pulp bront hitter at that point, but there are some high school bats
that I think make sense in thatrange, And if you're taking that college
high floor guy, it's a littleeasier to justify in the second round or
your next draft pick, taking somebodywho has a little bit longer to go,
a little bit more helium, alittle bit more dreaming that they have
to do. But I think thatis one nice thing for the Reds as

(16:52):
well, is that those prep batsdo make sense in that area. You
and I have talked a lot aboutRed's prospects who are at the big league
level right now, you know,But I mean we've talked extensively about Ellie
Dela Cruz and Hunter Green and Nicoldoloand a lot of guys that were watching
at the moment, and guys theReds have acquired from other clubs. It
has left, I think a littlebit of a gap between some of the

(17:15):
promise of the lower part of thefarm system and what they have at the
big league level. Now. Solet's just talk about this from a thirty
thousand foot view the farm system asis understanding. Who has graduated to the
big league level of the last yearplus, how would you rate it?
It's a really good question because Idon't think you can just completely ignore that

(17:37):
Cincinnati has graduated so much young talent. Having said that, I do think
that this is a farm system that'sranking closer to the bottom half than the
top half. I love Rhet Louder. I thought that was a really good
pick. I believe we talked aboutit last year because you absolutely never ignored
me at this time of year,and I appreciate it. I need to
be attended, and it's been niceto see you. Cam Collier has shown

(18:00):
flashes of brilliance. He needs toput it together on a more consistent basis,
for sure. As I look today, he's hitting two thirty one,
But there have been absolutely moments there. Alfred Duno is Alfredo Duno, excuse
me, as one of my favoriteprospects of the catch at the catching position
right now. There are some youngtalented players. Connor Phillips development obviously has

(18:22):
been a kind of a disaster intwenty twenty four. That ten point one
one era that I'm staring at rightnow is pretty I believe the kids call
it icky pant, but there's nodoubt that there is talent still in the
system. But you're looking at likeRed Lauder probably profiling as a mid rotation
starter, Edwin a Royo, probablyprofiling as a regular, but a bottom

(18:45):
of the order type of hitter,a guy who hit seventh, eighth,
nine, Cam Collier, maybe abench bat right now, Sal Stewart,
some real defensive question marks going onright there, and also probably profiles as
a left hand or excuse me,a guy who comes in and hits against
left handed pitchers. Those are niceplayers to have, but they're not necessarily
the star type of prospects that youwant to have at the top of your

(19:07):
system. There's some work to bedone, and that's why it's another thing.
It's great to have the number twopick because you're going to add a
top fifteen to twenty prospect, maybeeven a top ten prospect with that second
What about my new favorite player,Rees Hines? Where are you and him?
So race signs? I think isreally fun and I know that the
numbers have just been absolutely bumkers,and I hope everyone is having a blast.

(19:33):
I hope everyone's already ready for thecome doown too, because this is
a guy who struck out one hundredand twenty six times in two hundred ninety
six at bats. But you seethat the ball just jumps off of this
dude's back, and it's never beena question mark with power. With him,
it's never really been a question markwith athleticism. He also has a
canon of an arm. He's thattype of player that you just kind of
love to watch because he hit ballreal far and he throw ball real fast.

(19:57):
I have real question marks about whetheror not the hit tool can actually
play, but it's a really funstory, and I don't think there's any
reason to think he can't be atleast a youthful bench player. If he
puts everything together, he can bea regular, maybe even a slightly above
average one. But you have toacknowledge that there is just as much risk,

(20:18):
if not more than there is reward. All Right, one more because
you're busy, and this might bea stupid question. So Reese Hines.
They call him up, and thefirst thing we all do is look at
his numbers at Louisville, and they'renot good. How should we contextualize minor
league statistics? Who That's a reallyreally good question. It's it's important to

(20:41):
see success at the minor league level, and I think that's growing truer and
truer as we get less levels becauseyou're seeing guys compete against their same talent
level like when we had. AndI don't get me wrong, I hate
what's happened to minor league baseball.I miss seeing short season baseball and all

(21:04):
of that stuff. But we wouldsee guys that were just completely overmatched,
or we would see guys that wereway too good to be at that level.
I don't think you see that nearlyas often anymore. There are some
cases of it, in part becausehey, there's only so many places that
they can go. But I dothink there is some sort of correlation between

(21:27):
success at the minor league level andcorrelation for success at the highest level,
more so than other levels. Iwill say this though, too. You
got to take a look at morestuff. Now we have more information like
on exive velocity and launch angle andsprint speed and barrel right and stuff like
that. I think those numbers matterjust as much, if not more,

(21:49):
than the minor league stats. Now, I'll be honest with you, I
haven't checked out a ton of refinedstats, but I bet you his extive
velocities were among the very best inminor league baseball. I bet you was
barrel rate was among the very bestin minor league baseball too. Yes he
hit two sixteen. Yes he strikesout a ton because he has a ton
of length in its wing, andhe's not exactly the most patient hitter in
the world. But I bet youthose advanced dats, which actually I think

(22:12):
matter a little bit more right now. And if you wanted to argue that
we use him too much, Iunderstand, and it's a changing world and
sorry for you, but I dothink that there is no doubt that success
at the highest level is generally correlatedwith success at the minor league level.
But there are always exceptions to thoserules. All right, I said that

(22:33):
would be my last question. Butwhat you said prompted a follow up.
So here is you mentioned advance metricalstudy. Yeah, well, and me,
uh, advanced metrics. How muchof that data is available when we
are talking about college kids and obviouslyalso high school guys as well as we
prepare for the draft. It's available. It's hard to find, though,

(22:57):
and a lot of that stuff isgoing to be stuff that you've got to
pay for and you have to well. In the college level, especially,
it's not going to be as obvious. But there are websites like d one
Baseball that will provide you some contextbetween those things minor league level. It's
something that you can find on theBaseball savont pages. You can find.
One of the big things you canfind with Baseball Savants is you can find

(23:21):
the DSW thing for pitchers that calledstrikes and whiffs, and that is a
very important statistic that you have tokeep an eye on because you know,
we're finding that ERA is not necessarilythe best way to judge pitchers. We
want to see guys who can fullhitters into taking pitches that are strikes and
also swing and mist at those pitches. Those numbers are not as readily available

(23:41):
as you get from the major leaguestats. Baseball savantech I might as well
be my homepages at this point,because you know, it's just part of
it's being a Seattle Mariner fan andjust looking for hope watching these guys hit
two eighteen, you know what Imean, looking for some hard hit percentages,
but those things are readily apparent minorleague ones. You got to scourge
a little bit, but you canfind it. Other thing to keep in

(24:03):
mind here, too, though,is as good as Baseball Savant is as
good as some of these other trackingdatas is. Major League teams have their
own tracking data that is much better, much more advanced than You're never going
to see it because it is basicallythe propriet proprietary technology that they're going to
keep to themselves. They do itwith defensive stuff, they do it with

(24:26):
pitch stuff. You know, theyhave all sorts of advanced models and analytics
that they keep to themselves. Weget some public data, which is cool.
They get some private data which helpsthem an awful lot outstanding information.
I'll bobby you next week. Havea great weekend, man, Thanks so
much, my pleasure. Have agood one. Chris Crawford, NBC Sports

(24:47):
roto World and you know he's aniHeartRadio colleague of ours. Kjar in Seattle,
twenty seven away from four o'clock,we're broadcasting from the Holy Ground downtown
Cincinnati, getting said for Reds andmar Marlands, Tonight's sports headlines and more.
Next ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports StationDeadlines. A service of Kelsey Chevrolet,

(25:08):
Home of lifetime powertrain protection and guaranteedcredit approval from many family to yours
for life kelsyschef dot com Carson Spiresand Yanni Chrino's. Tonight's pitchers Rights and
Marlins first of three tonight at GABP. Your starting lineup thanks to a Madewell
restoration. Make sure your homes exterioris made well. Let's hope tonight's red

(25:30):
starting lineup has made well. Goto Madewell Restoration dot com. India's leading
off at second base, Elie dela Cruz at shortstop, Jamercandelario is dhent
tonight, Spencer Steers at first base, Stevenson behind the plate, Jake Fraley
and left field bat six Noelve Martezat third base, Reese Hines and right
field, and Will Benson is incenterfield. He is batting ninth. Florence

(25:53):
taking on Washington tonight, and FCCincinnati going through its final preparations before tomorrow
night match against Charlotte. That gameairs live on ESPN fifteen thirty starts at
seven thirty, with pregame coverage onESPN fifteen thirty beginning at seven o'clock.
We talked before about Hunter Green,who was terrific yesterday. He is going

(26:17):
to be and is a National LeagueAll Star. We'll find out, I
guess on Tuesday night. Of nextweek. If he pitches in the game,
it would fall on his regular turn. Paul Skeens is going to start
a guy who got called up justtwo months ago, who threw seven no
hit innings before being taken out againstthe Milwaukee Brewers yesterday. Paul Skeens is

(26:37):
one of the biggest stories in baseball. I don't know how anybody could have
any issue with him starting what isotherwise a meaningless exhibition game. The idea
is for me at least to getthe most talked about players in the sport
on the field. That means elllyDe la Cruz, it means Paul Skeans.
But Hunter Green was awesome yesterday.Certainly not going to campaign that he

(26:59):
should have started ahead of Paul Skins. I just hope he gets in the
game. More important, I hopehe has a better second half than he
had a first half, and forthe most part, he had a really
good first half. Here he isafter yesterday's performance against the Rockies. You
just had a good start after goodstart. What felt the best specifically from
this one, I think being ableto land my my slider. I felt

(27:21):
like I was able to throw thatwhenever throughout the count. Being able to
land that pitch is really important forme, making sure I lock that in
before the game starts in my bullpen. So I think that helped a lot
today as we are, I don'tthink so. I think it's been an

(27:45):
outlier for the last few years.You know, that's been a pitch where
it's been able to keep guys offof my fastball as well as well as
my splitter. I think I'm ableto kind of play my fastball really well
off of that slider, you know, with the tunnelings. So that's always
been a pitch. I think thatI've had a lot of confidence and it's
been an outlier for sure. Butuh, like I said, being able

(28:07):
to throw that kind of whenever Iwanted to today it was important serious obviously,
especially moving find it, staying andraised finally get maybe get buying your
traders, like how big was itgoing to come back and want to Seriosyeah,
that was huge, you know,it was the focus. You know,
it was the kind of talk ofthe clubhouse the last few days,
is being able to take care ofthis series and being able to finish it

(28:27):
with a fun game like today waswas really cool. I think every single
inning was fun today, So itwas fun to be a part of the
game and to be a fan comingout. You would you let yourself now
at last kind of like pay I'dlike to, but it's funny. I
was just after I finished my mybike ride after the game, I was

(28:48):
sitting with rob Art's strength coach uhsitting down coming up with the plan over
the week on our calendar, sokind of prepping for that and making sure
that I'm ready to go with myfirst game back. So yeah, I'm
gonna try and relax, smell theroses, but at the same time,
it's reality, I gotta be readyto coming back. Hunter Green after the

(29:08):
ball game yesterday, a ten strikeoutperformance against the Rockies. King King is
not really a word. The firstsix guys who came to the plate,
Reds blowout Colorado take three out offour. It's it's fun to watch him.
You know what we said often duringhis first season and even a little
bit last year, and perhaps maybea little bit back in April, that

(29:33):
you know, he had to learnto pitch instead of just relying on blowing
hitters away with his fastball, andhe had to learn to start trusting his
pitches. And he had to notjust develop more to his arsenal, but
add more to his arsenal and thenbe willing to throw it almost anywhere on
the count, in almost any situation, against almost any hitter. And the

(29:55):
fun thing is, and maybe ittook slightly longer than some would have liked,
included, it's been fun to watchhim develop to the point that he
is willing to throw the splitter,the change, the slider at pretty much
any point in the count. Andmaybe he's not where we want him to

(30:17):
be in terms of, you know, his his overall profile. But you
know, we talked about Hunter alot earlier this season. He's giving them
length, he's giving them a degreeof consistency. He has been better with
control, He's obviously become very goodat keeping the ball inside the ballpark.
And there's just there's so much,I think with him to be excited about.
And we get caught up, andI get caught up in the most

(30:40):
recent game result and where they arein the standings and are they going to
make the playoffs and what's the deadlineapproach going to be, and all those
things are on the table. Atthe end of the day, we want
this thing the Reds are doing.This plan doesn't really work if it doesn't
result in some sort of large scalesuccess, some sort of large scale sustains
success. But within the framework ofthis season, both when it's been good

(31:03):
and when it's been not so good, you know, Ellie de la Cruz
gets talked about so much. He'sso much fun to watch. His ceiling
still seems to be just almost unlimited. But watching Hunter Green get it,
watching the light bulb come on,has been really really fun. And as
easy as it is to develop cynicismabout this team, and as easy it

(31:30):
is as it is to you know, do the math with their record right
now and maybe be not that encouragedthat they're gonna make the playoffs or win
enough games to you know, getto get to October. They're gonna have
a chance. They're gonna have achance because of their starting pitching. There
is a big three, and Ithink it's really fun to think about,

(31:51):
not just by the end of theseason, it's really fun to think about
what we're gonna be talking about ayear from now as it relates to Lodolo,
Abbott, Hunter Green and others.It's frustrating that we don't include Graham
Ashcraft in that discussion, but Idon't think we can. It's fourteen minutes
away from four o'clock. Five pointthree seven four nine, fifteen thirty.

(32:14):
Is our phone number eight sixty sixseven oh two three seven seven six works
as well? You could send mean X at Moeger thanks to a Delta
Dental. Delta Dental is building healthy, smart, vibrant communities everywhere for everyone.
Good to Delta Dentaloh dot com.Steve Kangelosi on Fccincinnati coming up at
five twenty plenty of room for youbetween now and then. We're here at

(32:37):
the Holy Grail, downtown Cincinnati onESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports station,
earning twenty five night away from four. This is ESPN fifteen thirty broadcasting this
afternoon from downtown. We're at theHoly Grail right across from gabp Red's and
Marlins coming up with Jazz. I'vegot We've got an MLB network on in

(32:57):
here, and they've done two segmentssince I got here, like two fifteen.
It's nine till four. I havewatched them do two segments. Obviously,
I don't have the benefit of sound. Two segments on jazz Chisholm and
best possible fits for him. Whywould Cincinnati not be one of those best

(33:19):
possible fits. It feels to me, and I could be dead wrong about
this. Maybe you don't want JazzChishm and that's fine. It feels to
me like there is still a reallyreally long list of names that a lot
of people have of players, youngerplayers, younger players maybe who have played

(33:39):
in the big leagues, players whoare in the farm system that people don't
want to part with, and youknow, for me, you can't.
It's interesting. Last year the Reds, the trade deadline came and went,
and it's not accurate to say theydid nothing. They acquired Sam Mall,
and Sam Mall has for the mostbeen okay, but they didn't make a

(34:02):
splash. They didn't address their biggestweakness. They didn't do anything that really
moved the meter. I think wewould all say they were not very aggressive.
What was interesting to me is,throughout weeks of having conversations about what
the Reds may or may not doand what they should or should not do,
heard from a lot of folks onthis show and via social media platforms

(34:28):
that really didn't want to part withanybody right, they had a long list
of guys that were untouchable, andthen the deadline comes and goes, and
they they then pivot the criticism to, well, the Reds weren't aggressive,
Like, being aggressive doesn't mean yougive up guys that nobody wants. It
doesn't mean you part with your slop. It means you actively engage with the

(34:52):
team and come up with something thatcompels them to trade away something that you
want. It means paying a lot, It means paying the most. It
means having the highest bid. Itmeans running to the front of the line.
It it doesn't mean saying no toalmost every possible trade piece that that

(35:14):
comes up. And so I guesswhat I'm what I'm kind of interested in
is like, how how long isthe list of got Like I certainly understand
they are players. They're not tradingor nor should they want to. They
are not going to trade La dela Cruz, nor should they. They're
they're not gonna trade Hunter Green,nor should they. They're they're not gonna
trade any number of young guys,maybe even some more established players. But

(35:36):
it's and I think Jonathan India isfascinating because he's having a good year,
and if you trade for him,you know what you're paying him next season.
And the Reds have some infielders andthey could still get back Matt McLain
at some point this year. Ijust I always think it's interesting when you
hear people criticize them for not beingaggressive, but then some of those same

(35:58):
folks will give you any number ofguys that they have no interest in the
Reds parting with. Being aggressive meansspending more than everybody else, coming up
with a package that exceeds what anotherteam might be able to offer, whether
it's a deal with the Miami Marlinsand the Chicago White Sox or any other

(36:19):
team that could be in cell mode. And I maintain this as well,
and I've talked about this a littlebit of it the last couple of weeks.
I don't know that the next coupleof weeks should dramatically change what they're
looking for. First, I thinkthe red should be in the business Nick
Crawl and Brad Meter should be inthe business in the coming weeks of trying
to find players who can help themboth in twenty twenty four and beyond.

(36:44):
And you know the example that alot of us use when we talk about.
This is Trevor bauerd Trevor Bauer,the Reds acquired for the remainder of
twenty nineteen, and they got himfor twenty twenty. That should be what
they're looking for. That should bewhat they're looking for. Or if they
sweep this series against Miami, ifthey're above five hundred, close to the

(37:05):
trade deadline, or if they losetheir next ten games, what they should
be looking Now that that I justmentioned what they should be looking for is
probably going to cost a lot.It's probably going to require them to be
aggressive, probably going to require themto part with a significant package of younger

(37:25):
players or prospects or both. Wesay we want the Reds to be aggressive,
But when we say that, dowe really know the meaning of the
word aggressive, at least in thiscontext. More on that coming up later
on Brendanman and Jones on Baseball Inabout an hour, I said something this

(37:46):
weekend that a couple of folks onTwitter got mad at me for saying about
Joe Burrow. We'll get to thatwhen we come back at the Holy Ground,
ESPN fifteen thirty. This report ESPNfifteen to thirty, Cincinnati's Sports station.
Fine, that's us, damns.We're at the Holy Rail now Town
Cincinnati, Alphil. This is ESPsfifteen thirty. We are here till it's

(38:07):
gorgeous. I have a good atken with today, which is where the
radio station is. And we hadlike this three minute rainstorm when I was
on I seventy one today. Thatwas insane. And I got down here
like two fifteen or so, andit was cloudy, and it looks awesome

(38:27):
outside right now. Now. Iknow it's hot. It's hot because it's
July. Like that's like tomorrow's gonnabe ninety one. It's hot because that's
what happens in July. Like,it's hot, but it's gorgeous out right
now. And there's there's no betterplace to get away from the heat than
the Holy Grail. There's no betterplace to a post up before a ball
game than the Holy Grail. Weare right across the street from gabp right

(38:50):
across the street from the Team Storewhere they no longer sell the hoodie that
I wanted to buy that I didn'tI couldn't afford. Nonetheless, we were
here and so come on out hangout with us, have a cold one
and say hello, I've got ourshow preview video thanks to Emery Federal Credit
Union at the end of the video, and it's I admit today it's kind
of a long video, but Imentioned something that you could maybe win if

(39:14):
you mentioned the video, but yougot to watch the video. I made
that more complex than it needed tobe. Lots going on. Red's played
a night against the Miami Marlins Cincinnati. They're twelve and one this season against
the worst three teams on their schedule, and so you could you could sort
of throw a side eye at anybodywho gets excited about what they have done

(39:35):
against the Colorado Rockies. And let'sface it, what they did against the
Rockies came on the heels of gettingswept by the Detroit Tigers. And so
when you're you're four under five hundred, you've earned some skepticism. But if
they're going to vault into the race, you might say they're in it right
now. If they have any chanceof competing, they've got to continue to

(39:57):
do what they have done so farthis year. For all the attention that
sweeps against teams like the Dodgers andYankees have gotten, this team is where
it is in large part because whenthey've played teams like the Rockies and White
Sox and Angels, they've been terrifictwelve and one against those three teams combined.
They get a really bad team thisweekend, they get that same really
bad team in two weeks. Andso you've got to take advantage of when

(40:23):
the schedule gives you crud. Rightnow, the Reds schedule is giving them
crud. Meanwhile, f C Cincinnatihas a game tomorrow night against Charlotte.
Steve Cangelosi Apple TV has the callGonna join us at five point twenty.
A bit of a statement by fC Cincinnati last Saturday, second of three
straight home games tomorrow night, QueenCity versus Queen City. Interested in if

(40:52):
that's kind of how the broadcast isgonna frame what f C Cincinnati did against
Miami last week as a statement game. We are getting closer to the start
of training camp, which you know, if if you think of coming downtown
to watch the Bengals practice, yougot to make a holy grail. The
holy grail a part of that experience. Joe Burrow was on the Pardon My

(41:15):
Take podcast and talked about how whenyou're injured, you kind of you feel
forgotten. And you know, Imade the point that it's easy. It's
easy to forget what was sandwiched inbetween Joe Burrow's beginning of the season last
year and how his season ended atthe beginning poor performances. I don't know

(41:38):
that we will ever see Joe playas poorly as he did against the Browns
in Week one last year, andthat includes how he played Week one against
the Steelers, when he turned theball over five times week one of twenty
twenty two. And then there wasobviously how it ended. So it started
with them going zero and two,It started with a few very uneven performing

(42:00):
and that's being generous, and itended with him not playing the last basically
two months of the season because ofthe risk injuries suffered against Baltimore, and
because of those two things, andbecause of how loud those two things are,
and because of how much we talkabout those things, I think it
is easy to forget that during afour game stretch October through early November,

(42:23):
he was playing really, really well. Now was he the best quarterback in
the league, No, but washe playing at a level that made you
feel like, all right, ifthis can continue, this team season,
can still be really good and theycan still be a factor in the playoffs.
He did four week stretch which includedgames against Arizona, Seattle, San

(42:45):
Francisco, and Buffalo. He completesover seventy five percent of his passes.
He throws ten touchdown passes. Hethrows only two picks. He was unbelievably
good in a road performance against theSan Francisco forty nine ers last year,
against the team that obviously aid theSuper Bowl last season, and then it
all blew up because he got hurt. And part of what made the injury

(43:05):
so painful was he was really juststarting to play well. They had a
game the week before the Baltimore game, if you remember, where they lose
at home to the Houston Texans,and Joe wasn't awesome in that game,
but he did lead a pretty improbablecomeback that ultimately still resulted in them losing
the football game. So what madehis injury so painful was he was just

(43:28):
then starting to play like Joe Burrow. So I mentioned this on the show
Tuesday or Wednesday, and I putthis out there on social media and I
said, you know, Joe talkedabout being forgotten and it is easy to
forget, and I think as fanswere sometimes guilty of this, it is
easy to forget that there was astretch last year where he was playing as

(43:52):
well as he ever ever has,where he was looking the part of dare
I see an MVP caliber quarterbacks?I put this out there and I got
called a homer. Now I'm alot of things. Now I'll take a
lot of criticism. I am afan. I think there's a difference between
a fan and a homer. Afan is willing to criticize and be objective.

(44:15):
A homer is rarely willing to doany of those things. I don't
think you're being a Homer if yousay that in a four game stretch last
season, Joe Burrow was about asgood as you can expect. But I
do think it gets forgotten because thefirst thing that comes up when I say
Joe Burrow twenty twenty three isn't thefour games he played where he was really

(44:36):
good. It's either injury at thebeginning or injury at the end. It's
either calf or wrist. When yousay to me Joe Burrow twenty twenty three,
those are the first things I thinkof, too, And by the
way it is impossible to talk aboutJoe Burrow without mentioning the injuries and the
weird medical stuff that he's gone through, because he's gone through a lot.

(45:00):
Fifty percent of his NFL seasons haveended with him not finishing the season,
So I get how this works.Anyway, as doing some stuff this morning,
and I get an alert on myphone about this bold take from First
Take involving Joe Burrow, and I'mlike, bold take, What could the

(45:20):
bold take be? I guess wehave found it. This is I believe
Courtney Cronin from ESPN, who doesa really nice job covering the NFL,
and I guess she's been filling inthis week on First Take, and I
guess the bold take is they weretalking about Joe Burrow's MVP bona Fides tarn
go ahead and hit that, damn. Do you feel like Burrow should be

(45:44):
the MVP favorite the season? No, I don't think he can be the
MVP favorite this season for a coupleof reasons. I think the first reason
is this, You're coming off ofan injury, and there has been a
history of injury in your career,and so if I'm thinking, okay,
who's gonna be my favorite to bethe MVP. It'd be hard pressed for
me to say a guy who wasinjured about half of the season last year.

(46:04):
That's kind of part one, andthen part two because you go to
outside of that man, Joe Burrowsthe years before that put up some solid
stats over four thousand yards, thirtyplus touchdowns. But then you look at
like some of the other offensive numbersthat are putting up, they are Gotti
guys like Dak Prescott. Now withMike McCarthy, Colin plays can put up
gotty MVP like numbers to a tongueof Bailoa led the league in passing last

(46:25):
year, gotty MVP type numbers.And so those are just a few of
the reasons why I don't think JoeBurrow should be an MVP favorite. But
if he stays healthy, he'll definitelybe an MVP conversation. He's my MVP,
and I think you need to putthese injuries aside because he's shown us
remember how bad of a season,like how bad last season started out for

(46:45):
the Cincinnati Bengals. He misses alot of training camp, do the calf
injury, Those first four or fivegames are just awful what the team had
fallen off, and then all ofa sudden Week five, they start playing
their best football. Why because ofJoe Burrow, Like he put them into
Hey, this team might be aplayoff team through a four game stretch,
right through ten touchdowns, two interceptions, with averaging two hundred and eighty three

(47:06):
passing yards a game, and lookedlike an MVP candidate at that point.
And of course they were the wristinjury that ends up putting him out for
the season, something he had tohave surgery on. And now in what
he's coming back from, look atthe weapons around him, whether it's his
tight end and Mike Gseki to theT Higgins, Jamar Chase, so on
and so forth. This is ahigh powered offense and they've shown you even

(47:28):
at their weakest points, even whenthe pass protection isn't great, they are
still that unit because they've got JoeBurrow behind the line under center. And
I struggle when I take a lookat what the odds are right now because
he's not the odds on favorite PatrickMahomes is. But Patrick Mahomes wasn't an
MVP candidate last year. In theregular season, there were all these changes
within his personnel and within the offensethat he had to overcome on his way

(47:51):
to winning the Super Bowl, whichobviously matters more to any player than winning
the MVP. But I still havequestions about Kansas City often. So there's
the conversation, I don't care whothe MVP is. I couldn't care less.
By the way, if you're lookingat the odds, what's fascinating to

(48:12):
me is Mahomes is the odds onfavor plus four fifty, and then Josh
Allen, CJ. Stroud, andJoe Burrow are each at plus eight fifty.
Lamar Jackson, who you might recall, won the award last year,
is that and has won at twicenow is at plus fourteen hundred. Now

(48:34):
let's remove our fandom and push asidethe Joe Burrow conversation for just a second.
Like, if you're looking for ridiculousvalue, Lamar Jackson won the MVP
last year, He's at plus fourteenhundred. Aaron Rodgers participated in three plays
last season. He's at plus sixteenhundred. Like that, to me is

(48:55):
remarkable. Lamar Jackson's MVP odds arethis aim as Jordan loves and Brock perties
Now, Lamar is probably not goingto put up the most gaudy rushing statistics
if Derrick Henry is as good asa lot of people believe he can still
be. But like you want totalk about like from an odds perspective,
I always look at all, right, where's Joe Burrow and then where's the

(49:15):
reigning MVP. Lamar Jackson won theaward last year plus fourteen hundred. He's
almost got the same odds as AaronRodgers. Is Joe Burrow going to be
the MVP of the league. Idon't know, but I do think there's
something about taking a flyer on himfrom this perspective. When he is healthy,
he puts up numbers that put himin the MVP conversation. That I

(49:40):
know that because in twenty twenty twohe was a finalist. I had no
problem with him not winning. Mahomeswon at that year, deserve to win
at that year. He put upgaudy stats, he led the league in
a bunch of different categories. Butthey do have finalists and Burrow was a
finalist for the award. If JoeBurrow puts up numbers that make him an

(50:01):
MVP finalist, that probably means theBengals have won the division. Now,
if they win the division and hisnumbers look great, I always wonder this
gets talked about all the time inthe NBA, where voters kind of get
tired of voting for the same people, which is why Michael Jordan wasn't the
MVP of the league every year thathe played from eighty eight through ninety eight.

(50:24):
There is a part of me thatbelieves if Burrow puts up numbers similar
to what he did in twenty twentytwo and maybe even better, and I
think that potential exists and the teamis as good as we think it will
be. If Burrow does that,I do think there are going to be
voters who are like, Yeah,it's Burrow's time, He's gonna get my

(50:45):
vote. Maybe that shouldn't be howvoters look at it. In fact,
I don't think it is how votersshould look at it. But I think
enough will that would make him Itwould make it interesting to me to see
if he would actually win. Butthe bigger piece to me, aside from
just MVP, is what sort ofseason is he gonna have? And so

(51:07):
like, if he puts up JoeBurrow type numbers that we see from him.
When he plays a full season,you mean to tell me he's not
gonna be in the conversation. Imean again, like I even made the
argument like his numbers were good enoughthat he probably should have been considered and
made a finalist in twenty twenty one. The team's mid season loll probably hurt

(51:30):
him. If he puts up numbersjust like twenty twenty two, he's gonna
be in the conversation. And ifhe's in the MVP conversation, Bengals are
gonna win eleven to twelve games.I don't think it's far fetched to say
that he will be in the MVPconversation because he did it just two years
ago. Oh and by the way, as you heard Courtney Cronin mention there,

(51:51):
there was a stretch last season wherehe played like an MVP. Again,
I don't really care that much aboutthe individual award. It be cool
if you won. It'd be neatto talk about him in the same conversation
as Boomer who won one, andKen Anderson who won one. That would
be awesome, But if he playsa full season, why would you at

(52:13):
least not consider him a bonafide candidatewhen the track record says when he plays
a full season, he's a bonafideMVP candidate. He might not be a
sort of quarterback that leads the leaguein a whole bunch of different passing categories,
and that's fine, But if heputs up MVP caliber numbers, Bengals
are gonna win eleven to twelve games. And if he puts up MVP caliber

(52:34):
numbers this go round, I thinkyou'll have voters who say, all right,
yeah, it's Burrow's time to winit. This is a very long
winded, roundabout way of me saying, yeah, I think he's got the
opportunity to win the MVP this year. From a value perspective, I still
think it's insane that Lamar Jackson youcould get hit him at plus fourteen hundred.
But I also don't think it's allthat bold to say that Burrow can

(52:58):
put himself in the mix because he'sdone it before. How's that? Eighteen
after four o'clock, Holy Grail,Downtown Cincinnati, Brennanman and Jones on Baseball,
Steve Canjelosi, Apple TV on FCCincinnati. He joins us in just
about an hour. We'll jump backto the Reds when we come back on
ESPN fifteen thirty. Cincinnati Sports Station, Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty Traffic from the

(53:22):
UC Health Traffic Center, the Universityof CN fifteen thirty. We are broadcasting
from the Holy Grail downtown, rightacross the street from GABP. The place
to be before or after or duringany Reds game home or away, and
already looking forward to broadcasting from herebefore every Bengals home game. Let's been

(53:46):
a few minutes with our guy,Mike. Mike, you're on ESPN fifteen
thirty. How are you? I'mpretty good, ma. I had a
very interesting procedure done yesterday called aat Loneolanda University Medical Center and Longlanda,

(54:07):
California, called a proton not quotwrong like an electricity, but quotton pr
o hen potons being up and thepeople that come from all over the world
that's been like that at last,this unique type of procedure, and so

(54:30):
I had it yesterday and recovering andwaiting to talk to the doctors and being
very positive and optimistic, just alittle bit hired. And I have a
question for you. Well, firstof all, I have a question for
you. I want you to tellme more about this procedure, how long
it takes, and I guess whatit takes out of you walk me through

(54:52):
it. Well, it's a noninvasive procedure, but they actually stick a
tube down your throat and they directthe laser beam at the areas that they
feel need to be firms basically forcalorist and then they also do some reconnaissance

(55:22):
work with a camera to see ifit's come into any nasthetizing as occurred in
that area. So it took abouttwo and a half hours, so they
they knocked me out for but becauseyou know, it's too hard to deal
with the twobe down your throat,so that's why they not the out and

(55:45):
so my tho it's pretty sore inthe law. So I'm just waiting to
talk to the oncologist too and aboutanalytis. So I'm really good about it.
They pull me, so I am, And that's the depth as I
can get. Man, I appreciateit. Yeah, all right, what
else is on your mind? Iam so impressed of course with Elie and

(56:09):
the stolen base his knacks for stealingbasement, and he does have a knack
for it. There's speed, butthere's also some God given me he has
for obviously. Yeah, so stealingbase is about is about more than speed,

(56:30):
right, It's about getting the rightjump, It's about reading the picture.
It's about knowing what your lead shouldbe. And look, it is
easier today to steal a base thanit was, but you know there are
He's only been thrown out fifteen percentof the time he's tried to steal this

(56:52):
year. For comparison's sake, whenRicky Henderson set the all time record for
most stolen bases in a season nineteeneighty two, he stole one hundred and
thirty bags, he was thrown outtwenty four percent of the time. Over
the course of his career. RickyHenderson, who was obviously with over fourteen
hundred steals, the all time stolenbase leader, he was thrown out twenty

(57:14):
percent of the time. And he'sthe gold standard, right, the best,
the best ever, still thrown outtwenty percent of the time. And
and and a lot had a lotof caught stealings, so to speak,
early in his career. Uh andso Ellie's at eighty five and eighty five
percent eighty four point nine percent tobe precise success rate this year. That's

(57:35):
better than Ricky Henderson was when Rickyhad his highest stolen base total, and
it's a higher stolen base rate thanRicky Henderson had for his entire career.
I bring that up because Barry Larkinon TV the end of the day made
a comparison between Ricky Henderson and Elliede la Cruz. I think that's a
little bit premature because Ricky is oneof the greatest players of all time and
the greatest base stealer of all time. But if you're if you want to

(57:58):
do the comparison, there's where itrest with me. Is Ellie being thrown
out less frequently than the guy who'sthe best of all time? And the
answer is yes, and Ricky wellbefore I before well the statement, this
statement is true. Ricky Henderson is, I would guess, the greatest roopff

(58:19):
hitter that ever played the game.So that's not a ballad comparison to the
LAS spot in the order. Butthe stat that I heard the other day
that I was hoping to old on, I got to take a breath of
that I could that I could thatyou could clarify for him, though,
is I heard some crazy steps thathe have seventy some stolen bases before the

(58:42):
All Star break one year, somecrazy amount like that. Yes, I
heard it on MLD, but Iwas half hour, so I didn't know.
Sorry, no, it's what isthat number? Do you know the
number? I mean it was.I thought maybe I was imagining that.
When I kind of came back toI thought seventy six. So I heard

(59:08):
I heard this brought up in conversation, and I don't off the top of
my head he had eighty four steals. I looked it up really quickly.
He had eighty four steals before theAll Star break in nineteen eighty two.
Now that was the year that thatwas the year that he stole one hundred
and thirty bases. He led theleague. It's the singles. It's the

(59:29):
modern day single season record for mostswiped bags in the year. But he
stole one hundred and thirty. Hewas thrown out forty two times. He
had eighty four of them before they had He had eighty four of them
before the All Star break, whichis an insane number. But like that
season for me, I brought itup before one quarter of the times that

(59:49):
that he tried to steal a base, he was thrown out. That doesn't
mean he's not a great bass It'sForgannison Riganerson's in the conversation is the best
living player of all time. ButElie de la Cruz what I like about
it when he goes he's successful.And so if if eighty percent over the
course of his career was the numberthat Ricky Henderson hit, If Ellie de
la Cruz is stealing bases not asfrequently, but with a higher success rate,

(01:00:14):
that to me is key, Thatto me is awesome. Exactly.
I'll ask you one more question.If you don't o God, I hit
my heel, I'll ask you onemore questions and then I'll get out of
your hair. Do you think asI do? Do you think as I
do? Mike, even though he'sin the Hall of Fame, Ricky Henderson
is painfully underrated. Yeah I do, because he was the whole of the

(01:00:38):
lead off full Longe hit. Well. Yeah, So, I think there
has been so much written and saidabout all the Ricky isms and all of
his weird idiosyncrasies that there are peoplewho don't understand how good that dude was.
Like, I think he is criminallyunderrated. Three thousand hits, four

(01:01:00):
hundred lifetime on base percentage, alltime leader in runs scored, all time
leader in stolen bases, and heplayed parts of twenty five seasons. So
when when when folks want to talkabout Ricky Henderson, I get excited because
I feel like he's one of thoseguys that his personality and all the stories
and all the weirdness of them sortof outweigh when we have conversations about him,

(01:01:24):
outweigh what he was able to doon the field statistically, when he
obviously was a clear cut first ballotHall of Fame, and he would he
would always talk. I'm not alwayslot. He was talking the third person.
Yes, weird. He was aweird cat. I mean he was
a weird man. He was aweird cat. But like, like everybody

(01:01:45):
talks about that so much that Ifeel like we've we've kind of forgotten,
not forgotten, but no one talksabout how good he was. They talk
about how weird he was. Bythe way, he was also an awesome
postseason player, Like he put upkiller He put up killer numbers in the
postseason, playing primarily with the OaklandA's, but also other teams too.
What else is on your mind,Mike, You got me. Oh,

(01:02:09):
people are talking about it here,but again, my consciousness level is minimal.
They're they're really really hot on theRams out here, and i'd like
you giving me your opinion and hangup and listen. Thank you so much.
Low on the Rams, yes,sir, Yeah, I mean,
I feel like the way they playedat the end of the season last year

(01:02:30):
would would make you feel like they'regoing to be a factor. They have
Matthew Stafford back, obviously no longerhave Aaron Donald. I I feel like
it's I feel like it's San Francisco'sdivision to lose. But I think you
had to love the way the Ramsplayed toward the end of the season.
It really does feel like the NFCis is wide open and still very much

(01:02:51):
top heavy, And so yeah,I'll buy the hype on the Rams.
Twenty eight away from five o'clock.We've talked a little bit about Mike,
and I had a long social mediapost about him. You heard Mike talk
about the procedure that he underwent,and he is in an oncology center there

(01:03:12):
in California, and Mike, Mikecalls our show every day. Calls our
show every day, and that therehave been days we don't take his call,
But as we have become familiar withwhat he is going through from a
health perspective, I've made the decisionconsciously, and I've made the decision and
gotten criticized for it in my building, and I've taken, you know,

(01:03:35):
emails from people that you know don'tlike Mike's call. Mike listens every day,
and if somebody who is going throughthe things that he endures from a
health perspective, he calls talk showsto get away from all that he talked.
He calls talk shows as a distraction, as a way of I don't

(01:03:57):
know if suspending reality is the rightterm, but I'll it anyway. Calls
talk shows to talk about something besideswhat he's going through physically, and I'm
sure what he's going through emotionally.So we're taking his phone call every day.
I get it from the perspective ofsome but you know, this is
a very intimate medium, and it'sa medium that best works when people participate

(01:04:19):
in it. And if somebody's participationis what they look forward to every day
when they're going through awful treatments,for cancer. We're taking that phone call
every single day. It is twentysix away from five o'clock. We're at
the Holy Grail downtown on ESPN fifteenthirty Cincinnati Sports Station. We got some

(01:04:40):
dudes who are going to be inthe tournament. Paul Scruggs is going to
be on our show on Monday,and I'm gonna talk to Cain Broome next
Thursday. So we're looking forward tothat and maybe we can get the voiceover
guy that you just heard in thatspot for the tournament to find out if
he's a real human being. Sportsheadline service to Kelsey Chevrolet, home of

(01:05:01):
lifetime powertrain protection and guaranteed credit approvalfrom their family to yours for life,
kelseyshev dot Com, Reds and Marlins. First of three tonight at GABP Cincinnati,
will give the ball to Carson Spyers. Yanny Chirinos will throw for Miami
seven to ten Tonight. Seven hundredWLW starting lineup hopefully made well thanks to

(01:05:24):
Madewell Restoration. Learn more about MadewellRestoration at Madwell Restoration dot com. Your
home deserves to be made Well Indialeading off Elliott Short Candelario's dhing Spencer Steer
at first, Tyler Stevenson behind theplate, Jake Fraley's in left field betting
six, Noelve, marte Is atthird base betting seven, three signs and

(01:05:45):
right, and Will Benson in centerfield, batting ninth. David Bell tells
reporters that Christian and Crnasion Strands surgerywent well. It's a three month timeline
from here that would put us inthe playoffs. He also says that for
Graham Ashcraft to come back this season, and obviously he is dealing with an

(01:06:09):
elbow issue, it would be Septemberif everything goes well. Let's just let's
do this, Okay, He's notgonna pitch in twenty twenty four. I
don't know if it's unfair to wonderif he's gonna pitch in twenty twenty five.
Either he ain't gonna pitch in twentytwenty four. Let's also be honest,
Graham Ashcraft really wasn't helping the Retsthat much this year. He had

(01:06:31):
just been in Louisville and was onlybrought back up because Nicolodolo had to miss
time. So a wasted season ofsorts for Graham Ashcraft, who should no
longer be considered a part of theBig Three or even the Big Four.
Florence Yhawa's take on Washington. Tomorrow, it's FC Cincinnati and Charlotte. That

(01:06:54):
game at the Soccer Venue in theWest End of Cincinnati starts at seven thirty.
You'll hear it live on ESPN infifteen thirty. Brendavan and Jones on
Baseball is just about ten minutes away. We are broadcasting from the Holy Grail
downtown, just across the street fromGABP. I think I just saw Nick
Crawl run across the street. Idon't know why. Bob from Bowling Green

(01:07:19):
is on ESPN fifteen thirty. HelloBob, what's going on? I'm sitting
here at the Holy Grail doing atalk show. How about yourself? Yeah?
Hey, you know what, Iwas surprised because I just called the
number a few seconds ago, andI are you taking calls now? When
you're doing remotes? We always have. It's just historically, historically, when

(01:07:42):
you do a show on location,people are less likely to call. Now,
when we do a show on locationand I've got a guest with me,
you know, we we typically don'tturn things over to our callers as
much. But when I'm flying solo. Absolutely cool. All right, Well,
hey, mo, I went tothe the Hickory Crawl Dad Bowling Green

(01:08:10):
Hot Rods game last night. Reallythe baseball teams, of course, yeah,
very good. This was in BowlingGreen obviously. Yes, Hot Rods.
Are they an affiliated minor league club. Yeah, they're with Tampa Bay
and Hickory is with the Texas Rangers. All right, how was the game?

(01:08:36):
You know what? It was?All right? I mean typical minor
league baseball. I left the park, and to be honest with you,
I don't even really know who won, for a couple of reasons. One
it was Thursday, Thursday, andyeah, and the second being in the

(01:08:57):
I don't know. It was probablythe fifth sixth inning something like that.
My wife didn't want to go.It's really hot here right now, and
I understand. So anyway, I'mnoticing that this guy is right behind home
plate. In fact, there weretwo guys, and they're out there with
notebooks. So I'm like, theseguys are scouts, you know. So

(01:09:18):
I get al and sit right nextto the older guy and we get talking
and I find out he's a scoutfor the Phillies, and so we talked
baseball for the next I don't know, next forty minutes probably really anyway,
yeah, oh yeah, just youknow, kicking around the pary deadline and

(01:09:39):
that kind of thing, and kindof wondering what the Phillies we're going to
do and that kind of stuff.And I'm bringing up the Cardinals to him,
and I brought up the name DylanCarlson to him. So I said,
you know, I what happened?He said? He said, three
years ago, I thought the guywas going to be a star. And
so anyway, we're talking about that. Well, we finally part ways in

(01:10:01):
the eighth inning. Yeah, andI said where are you heading tomorrow?
And he said Cincinnati. Oh,and I'm like really, so yeah,
he's he's at the game tonight.And you know what he told me his
name and I don't remember it becauseThursdays, yeah, or the or the
Bowling Green hot Rods called the hotRods because the Corvette Museum is there.

(01:10:25):
Absolutely very good. You know,I did something similar to you once.
So I uh, I was ata Louisville Bats game and I was there
by myself. I happened to bein Louisville. I happened and I needed
to be in Louisville for something happeningat night, and the Bats played like
an eleven am weekday game, soI go down early and I went to

(01:10:47):
the game eleven am by myself,and I, you know, you could
buy an expensive ticket and kind ofsit close to home plate. And I
was sitting across the road from aguy that was doing exactly what you.
He had a notebook, Uh,he had a bag with him. I
think he might have had a radargun. And I'd recognized him. It

(01:11:08):
was Brian Cleary, who used tobe the baseball coach at U See and
and he was working he was ascout. I don't know what he does
now, might still be in thesame capacity. He was working for the
Washington Nationals. And so I said, hey, yeah, Brian, how
are you. I ain't seen himin a long time. And after,
you know, we exchanged pleasantries,I said, I know this is really
nerdy, and you could tell meno, but I would love to just

(01:11:30):
sit here for a few minutes orfor an inning or two, and I
want you to kind of describe forme what you're watching and what you're writing
down. And he did, andI didn't want to spend the whole day
bothering him. But like, Isat there for like two innings, and
I'm like, all right, tellme what you're looking for here, Tell
me which players are looking at.All of this is going to be confidential,
right, Tell me what you're writingdown, tell me give me,

(01:11:53):
give me a sense of what thescout's eye sees. It's one of the
coolest experiences I've ever had at aball game. You know what, mo,
I totally get what you're saying.And you were probably much like I
was last night. I didn't reallywant to bother the guy much. Yeah,
but I could tell that he,you know, he'd probably seen most

(01:12:13):
of what he needed anyway, andhe didn't mind. He didn't mind Jabbernal
a little bit as well. Andhey, but the main reason I called
you, what do you think?What do you think the Reds are going
to do at the trade deadline?I think anybody who claims to know that
is lying. I don't think theyknow. Here's what I hope they do.

(01:12:35):
I hope they're in they should alwaysbe in talent acquisition mode, so
I hope what they are looking foris quite frankly what everybody should be looking
for. I hope they're looking toadd players who can help them this year,
who they can keep for twenty twentyfive and beyond. I'm not extraordinarily

(01:12:57):
interested in rental players because you're eitherchances are you're gonna get somebody who's not
very good. You're gonna get anAustin Slater. There's a part of me
that wonders if the Austin Slater moveis their move. The type of rental
players that they are likely to getprobably really don't move the meter. Let's
face at this team, if theyget to the postseason, it's gonna be

(01:13:19):
because of the guys who are alreadyhere or guys who come off the injured
list and help them. But ifI could add a piece that could provide
some help this year and be apart of next season, because look,
if you look at next year's team, they're gonna need outfield help. You
never can have enough relief pitching,you never can have enough starting pitching.

(01:13:40):
If they acquire somebody at the deadlinethat can help them this year but also
be someone who's a part of thecore for next year's team, chances are
that player costs more. That's whatI'm interested in. I would say that
if they win their next ten games, and I'll say that if they lose
their next ten games. But whatthey do specifically have no idea. I

(01:14:00):
guess is whatever they do isn't goingto be the splashiest thing. That's their
track record. But I also thinkif if you're looking at this going,
you know, the key to makingthe playoffs is making a trade. I
don't think this team is good enoughto believe that. I I'm with you,
and I think the Cardinals are muchthe same way. And I I

(01:14:20):
you know, I would love toland a John Lester of three years ago
that that really helped them, orCantana or somebody like that. And and
they're talking picking as well. Ido think Dylan Carlston is going to be
dealt somewhere, of course, nowadays, I don't know what you get for

(01:14:41):
him. And uh and gold Schmidto me, this is his walk here
anyway. And they say he lovesSaint Louis, he'd love to stay there,
but I can't stay bringing him backif he kind of, you know,
continues on with where he is rightnow. U. I've heard others

(01:15:01):
who know a lot more than meecho those sentiments, Bob, enjoy your
weekend, man, thanks so much. Okay, well, I think you'll
find folks who want the Reds togo. Get with Meryfield, who was
just let go by the Philadelphia Phillies, who was having a not very good
season, but somebody who is stillamong the more difficult players in baseball to
strike out, and a year removedfrom having an All Star season last year

(01:15:23):
with the Toronto Blue Jays. Brendmanand Jones on Baseball is coming up.
We're at the Holy Ground downtown onESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station. Join
his ESPN fifteen thirty. Traffic fromthe UC Health Traffic Center. The University
of Cincinnati Cancer Center is opening themost comprehensive blood center in the nation.

(01:15:44):
The feature of cancers here called fiveto one, three, five eight five.
Uc CC stop and go traffic iscausing a ten minute delay on eastbound
two seventy five between Lebanon Road andLoveland Madero Road, and watch out for
an accident on the right shoulder ifyou're on westbound two seventy five after Hamilton
Avenue. It was a five minutedelay on southbound seventy five at the Western
Hills Viaduct. I'm Nicole with traffic. This report is sponsored on Cincinnati's ESPN

(01:16:10):
fifteen thirty. You have and youhave tuned it me at five o'clock mikelob
Ultra five o'clock Happy Hour thanks toour friends at michelob Ultra. The Nickelo
Ultra five o'clock Happy Hour is thebest hour of the day. The mikkelob
Ultra five o'clock Happy Hour on Fridayis the best hour of the week.

(01:16:33):
The mikelob Ultra five o'clock Happy Hourwhen it's happening at the Holy Grail is
maybe the greatest hour on Earth.I don't even know if that makes sense,
but it is the mike Ultra fiveo'clock Happy Hour. I've got one.
It's cold, it is hot outside. I just I walked over during
the break because I like I liketo sometimes walk over to the ballpark,

(01:16:57):
like an hour or two before firstpitch, when folks are milling about and
it's hot out there. Alison Rogersfrom Channel five is broadcasting out there.
She looks like she is about tomelt. So I came back inside busted
open an ice. I didn't bustit open the you know, server did
Ice cool, michelol Ultra and we'retell Alison to come over and have one.

(01:17:18):
Be kind of nice. Right,We're here till six o'clock, Red's
and Marlins tonight. If you're comingdowntown, if you're going to Celtic Fest,
Celtic Fest is happening. I don'tknow that I've ever been to Celtic
Fest. I don't know that myvoice has ever hit the octave that it
just hit. But if you're goingto Celtic Fest, if you're going to

(01:17:38):
the ballpark, if you're out andabout this weekend, there's no better place
than the Holy Grail before a Redsgame, after a Reds game, during
a Reds game, if you needa place to watch. And obviously Bengals
training camp is beginning very soon andthen we'll have football season. We'll be
here before every Bengals home game.We cannot wait for that. But for

(01:18:00):
the time being, just stop whatyou're doing and come on out and hang
out with us here at the HolyGrail. We're here till six o'clock.
FC Cincinnati has a match tomorrow againstCharlotte. Steve Cangelosi is calling in for
Apple part of MLS season pass,always kind enough to join us whenever we
ask. He is going to bewith us in just about fifteen minutes,
as the Orange and Blue can hopefullyget three more points at home against a

(01:18:27):
team from the other Queen City.Meanwhile, Red's and Marlins hopefully this weekend
the continuation of what I don't wantto say started. The Reds have been
really good against really bad. Nowyou might go, wait a minute,
mo, the Detroit Tigers aren't verygood. You're right. I think there
maybe a half tier above what wejust saw this week from the Colorado Rockies,

(01:18:53):
and a tier above what we sawwhen the Reds played the Chicago White
Sox, who are dreadful, andwhat we saw when the Reds played the
Los Angeles Angels, who are seventeenunder five hundred. They had a bad
weekend last week, bounce back winthree out of four the game. I'll
say this, I was not onthe air yesterday. I took the day
off to go to the game.My buddy Mike Petrellia filled in the game

(01:19:16):
on Wednesday. Was deeply frustrating fromthe standpoint of number one. Austin Slater
joins the Reds and then looks likehe's never played an outfield before. Number
two. I think the most ghastlycoaching decision I have seen in any sport
this year occurred when Jr. House, the Reds third base coach, waived

(01:19:41):
Tyler Stevenson over to third to tryto stretch a double into a triple when
they were down by four runs.I like, I watch UC basketball and
like, I get really into it, and I watched the Bengals, and
I get really into it because thoseare sports. There's only so many games,
right, you see. Football iskind of the same way. I'm

(01:20:03):
a little bit more serene. WhenI watched the Reds. I threw a
David Bell type of temper tantrum inmy living room on Wednesday when Tyler Stevenson
got thrown out at third base.It's hard during a baseball season to for
me to lose my mom. That'sthat's not just that's not aggressive, that's

(01:20:24):
not even like mildly aggressive. That'sblatantly stupid. So but they bounced back.
Hunter Green was awesome yesterday. HunterGreen, you know, to a
degree, is sort of being overshadowedby Paul Skeans and Paul Skeens, you
know, there's not a lot goingon in sports right now. It's kind
of the dead period, and soa lot of the shows where they don't

(01:20:45):
focus a lot on baseball will devotesome time to baseball. So, for
instance, this morning night, Ihad on First Take, which is typically
not a show that I have onthat much in the morning, to be
honest with you, they led withPaul Skeens being taken out of that game
against the Brewers yesterday after seven inningsand ninety nine pitches while he was throwing

(01:21:06):
a no hitter, and then hewas on the Dan Patrick Show, and
then he was on the Dan PatrickShow, and Tory Lavallo, the manager
of the Diamondbacks managing the NL AllStar team, calls in to tell Paul
Skeens that he is going to bethe All Star starter. And so then
I'm watching some of the shows thatare on at the Holy Grail, and
they're leading with Paul Skins, boththe decision that Derek Shelton, the Pirates

(01:21:30):
manager, made to take him outafter ninety nine pitches and the decision for
him to be the All Star starterwhen he was just called up. That's
leading the shows like Around the Hornand PTI and things like that that typically
don't spend that much time on baseball. And granted there's not a lot of
other stuff going on, but it'sfun if you're a fan of the sport

(01:21:50):
to see so many young players beingtalked about making an impact having immediate success.
Hunter Green has not had immediate success, but two and a half years
into his big league career he's anAll Star. It's taken a little while,
although he has now made a grandtotal of sixty five big league starts.

(01:22:13):
I watch a lot of I watcha lot of like former ball players
on social media complain about the sport, and I see a lot of like
old head riders who are mad thatbaseball isn't talked about or played like it
was in nineteen eighty eight. Froma young talent perspective, this sport is
really healthy right now. Twenty fourfirst time All Stars, lots of young

(01:22:35):
talent that is you know, tome, is worth your time. And
the cool thing is the Reds havesome of those guys. Now, I
wish they had some of those guyson a team that was better than forty
five and forty nine, but they'vegot some of those guys and Hunter Green
is one of those guys. Ithink Hunter Green when he pitches, whether

(01:22:56):
you're a hardcore Reds fan, acasual Reds fan, we're just a sports
fan, I think Hunter green startsare worth paying attention to. He was
phenomenal yesterday against the Colorado Rockies,strikes out the first six hitters. And
you know, we've spent a lotof time this week talking about, you
know, those who are obsessed withEllie de la Cruz perhaps one day leaving

(01:23:17):
via free agency, which he can'tdo until twenty thirty, and a lot
of people wondering, like, well, he's gonna leave anyway, Is he
gonna go play for the Dodgers?What can they do to keep them?
And then you have a lot ofpeople who criticize the Reds for a lot
of different things, and god knows, I've spent a huge chunk of my
career criticizing the Reds for a lotof things. But you want to talk

(01:23:38):
about something they did that was reallysmart. They locked in Hunter Green for
the rest of his team controlled yearsand one more, and they have a
team option for one more after that. And you know, when he had
some starts earlier this season that weren'tgreat. You know, you have a
lot of folks that would rush tocriticize the ninety six million or call him

(01:24:01):
overpaid. I, like many,was reluctant to do that because Number One,
I don't view athletes solely through thelens of what they make. Number
Two, I understood what the Redsdid. They bet on him having a
breakout year. They bet on himbecoming the type of pitcher that he is

(01:24:26):
turning into, and when that happened, they didn't want to go to the
negotiating table with him. They don'twant to go you know, one hundred
degree and this is his third year, so he would be arbitration eligible at
the end of this season. Heis gonna get a raise. He's gonna
get like a three million dollar raise. Can you imagine what those conversations would
be like for the next three yearsif he only continues to get better now

(01:24:53):
in terms of where he is six, seven, eight years from now,
I have no idea, but they'regonna get a guy who they dra if
that in twenty seventeen through at leastthe end of the twenty twenty nine season,
they're already getting an All Star season, and then just from the standpoint
of watching him pitch, it's somuch fun to see a guy who's obviously

(01:25:14):
got a great arm and an abundanceof talent. It's it's so much fun
to watch him begin to trust hisstuff, begin to trust his splitter,
begin to trust his slider, beginto trust his changeup, and take pitches
that at times it felt like hewas reluctant to use, and use them
pretty much anywhere in the count,pretty much in any situation, pretty much

(01:25:35):
against any hitter. It's a lotof fun to watch, and you just
watch him and go, you knowwhat, if Hunter Green is where he
is and can only get better,and the progression can continue for Nicolodolo and
he has to stay healthy, andthe progression continue, can continue for Andrew
Abbott. If you took all ofthose teams in the very large middle of

(01:25:59):
Major League right I'm not talking aboutthe teams that are really good right now,
like the Orioles and the Yankees havenot been very good recently, but
the Orioles and the Guardians and thePhiladelphia Phillies, and then you sort of
lopped off the bottom the Rockies andthe Marlins and the White Sox and the
a's and then like everybody else issort of lumped together and it's a little

(01:26:23):
bit of an overgeneralization. Boy,there's a lot of teams that would like
to have those three. Like ifyou ask the Milwaukee Brewers right now,
Milwaukee is winning this division, theyhave they're leading this division right now,
I should say they're starting. Pitchinghas been a wreck all season long.
If you went to Pat Murphy andsaid, uh, you could have Hunter
Green, Andrew Abbott and Nicolodola,I think he wouldn't say yes. Hell,

(01:26:48):
if you went to the teams thatare leading this sport and said,
you can have those three pitchers,how many of those gms would say no?
How many of those managers would sayno? How many fans of those
teams would say no, have thosethree guys, and not only can they
build around them, Having those threeguys is what gives you hope for the
rest of this season. Sixteen afterfive, five point three, seven,

(01:27:09):
four, nine, fifteen thirty isour phone number. By the way,
Ki Griffey Junior is on TV rightnow. That's kind of cool. FC
Cincinnati will be on your radio tomorrownight on ESPN fifteen thirty. Apple TV
has the game MLS Season Pass.The guy who's gonna call the Orange and
Blue as they take on Charlotte joinsus next on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports
Station Cincinnati's EM five twenty ESPN fifteenthirty m L EGG are broadcasting today from

(01:27:34):
the Holy Grail of downtown, rightacross the street from a great American ballpark.
Tomorrow night, FC Cincinnati with thesecond of three consecutive home games,
coming off their six to one drubbingof Miami last Saturday. A great match,
an awesome atmosphere, and uh,hopefully something from our end that can
be replicated tomorrow is the Orange andBlue host Charlotte at game starts tomorrow night

(01:27:57):
at seven thirty. You could watchit for free on MLS Season Pass via
the AppleTV app, or just goonlinetv dot Apple dot com. On the
call is our buddy, Steve Caangelosi, nice enough to join us. It's
good to have you. What's goingon, Steve? It's low, good
afternoon to you. I'm stuck hereat Newark Airport in New Jersey. Thunderstorms

(01:28:18):
are rolling in, so hopefully I'mtaking off sometime tonight. I'm optimistic though,
thanks for having me. I've madethat drive from New Jersey to Cincinnati
often it's a good twelve hours,so if you get stuck, you'll be
Okay. That's encouraging. Okay,I'll keep that in mind. I hope
it doesn't come to that. Youand I last talked in the middle of

(01:28:39):
March. Season was just getting started. FC Cincinnati's performances early were I use
the word uneven often. Since then, a lot has changed. A lot
has changed, maybe not for thegood because of who they've lost, but
oh boy, that effort on Saturdaynight against Miami was the best of any
team that I've watched this season.What did you make about how they What

(01:29:00):
did you make of how they playedon Saturday Night? Well, a lot
has changed since that last conversation.First and foremost, they've won twelve of
their last fourteen matches, and that'ssomething that's only happened one other time in
a single MLS season, So thatspeaks volumes. I spoke with Pat Noonan
yesterday, and I think he hadthe proper context for what we saw just

(01:29:21):
a couple of nights ago in theroute of Miami. I think they're smart
enough to be proud of that effortagainst the team that was tops in the
league, but also smart enough toknow the dynamic will be very different the
next time they meet in August inFort Lauderdale. So with that said,

(01:29:43):
they're just checking their ego at thedoor. It was an outstanding performance that
led not only to the coach butthree of his players to be on the
Team of the Match day. That'show good Kubo, Acosta and Dagano were.
They were lights out. I don'tthink you'll see a finer performance collectively
from three teammates in the same game. I think that you struck at what

(01:30:05):
has impressed me most about Pat Noonan'sclub these last three years. They have
had some insanely emotional victories, right, They've also had some really debilitating losses,
and in neither case as what happenedthe previous game, the previous week
lingered on. They have moved onvery well from some tough losses, and

(01:30:28):
you've always gotten a sense, atleast I have that if they had a
really good performance the match before.You know, football coaches and basketball coaches,
and I'm sure soccer coaches always talkingabout the twenty four hour rule.
This team has always really been goodat moving on and focusing on what's next,
which is why I'm really encourage tosee what they can do tomorrow night.
I think that speaks to a coupleof things. I think that speaks

(01:30:49):
to veteran leadership, and it's goodto see that when you consider that a
fair amount of their roster turned overfrom the team that won Supporter Sheel last
year, right and think about howthat roster largely turned over with guys with
MLS experience. DeAndre Yeblin coming inwith MLS experience a big part of this,

(01:31:12):
Miles Robinson coming into the team withthe same and I think that translates
to the things that you're talking about, veteran guys who've been around the block,
who played in big games for cluband country, and I think that
reads into something very positive for themwhen they're trying to shake off that rare
bad result that they've had. Thisis a team that's fifteen four and three,

(01:31:34):
so we haven't witnessed a whole lotof that, but right now,
this is a team that has allthe pistons firing and they are in the
midst of what I think is justa fascinating supporter shield race in the East.
Let's talk about the team they playtomorrow. They square it off against
Charlotte in late March. That matchended in a draw. It feels like

(01:31:57):
forever ago. What's different about Charlottefrom then to now. Well, this
is a team I think that's goingto be reckoned with and I think that
this is a team that Dean Smithwill be disappointed, their head coach first
year in MLS, disappointed if theydon't produce a top six finish in the
Eastern Conference. I think they're showingthemselves that. Well, it's hard to

(01:32:21):
answer your question directly, because thisis a better team than they were earlier
in the year, but they're havinga gaping hole for this game on Saturday
night. This is a team thatI think, in the transfer window needs
to go out and get a naturalnumber nine. Their best option right now
is a very good young player inPatrick Asimon. He's got size, he's

(01:32:45):
got presence, he's got a finetouch, and he's got a red cart
suspension that takes him out of thegame on Saturday night. So is it
set up for Cincinnati to do somewonderful things before the home fans tomorrow night?
I want to say probably, butevery time you take these things for
granted, you get a little bitdisappointed in how you read the game.

(01:33:06):
Defense is this team's calling cards.Charlotte, they went nearly the entire month
of May without conceding a goal.That's a tremendous accomplishment. They've been a
little bit leakier since then. ButI think you can say the same thing
about Cincinnati, considering the injuries thatthey're dealing with in the back. No
mi Oscar for the rest of theseason. It's a good matchup, but

(01:33:28):
I'd be disappointed if Cincinnati didn't comeout and dictate the terms of the game.
Tomorrow night. Match Tomorrow Night,seven thirty for free MLS season pass
on Apple TV. Steve Canzealosi hasthe match for you, assuming he gets
to Cincinnati on time for Tomorrow nightat seven thirty. You mentioned the supporter
shield race. Let's cut it inhalf and talk about the Eastern Conference.
I would love to say it's atwo team race. I'm not naive enough

(01:33:51):
to do that. As much asI want to eliminate Columbus, so I
won't break down the top of theEast for me. How many teams have
a shot well, I think you'venavigated that well on your own. It's
three, because that's the separation thatwe have now in the East, the
Big Three. And I think thatthere was a little bit in the back

(01:34:13):
of the minds of observers that wewould go into League's Cup, or let's
just say post Copa America with InterMiami shaking off a couple of disappointing results
in light of who they missed duringthat time. Lionel Messi, Luis Suarez,
and Mattis Rojas all left for theirrespective countries for Copa America. What

(01:34:35):
happens without those players, Miami reelsoff four straight wins until they get cooled
off by your team just a coupleof nights ago. So that separation that
I think Cincinnati wanted from Miami nevercame into play, and I think that
makes it all the more fascinating asfar as Columbus goes. I think games

(01:34:57):
at hand are exactly that they aregames at hand. They are fully loaded
to make a run at the topof the table themselves. But I think
Cincinnati and Miami are probably in themore enviable position right now. You don't
know, there's gonna be a lotof things that happen between now and the
end of the season. Who prioritizesLeague's Cup, Who has a good run

(01:35:17):
in League's Cup? Because remember this, the teams that went the farthest in
League's Cup last year all struggled whenthe regular season resumed after the wear and
tear of that tournament. It happenedto Miami, it happened to Philadelphia,
it happened to Nashville, which wasa finalist in that tournament. So I
think there's a lot that we can'tpredict. And right now, the only

(01:35:42):
thing I would say that separates thethree is the guy who wears the ten
shirt and pink in South Florida.Other than that, these are three pretty
even teams. Well said, Ihope you get out in time. I
don't want you to have to makethat drive, but you know, twelve
hours you'll still be here by kickoff. I appreciate the time as it always
man, go ahead, what's therecord for what's the record for the largest

(01:36:05):
Uber price tag in one night?Maybe I'll approach that. Thanks a lot,
mo, I appreciate it now,you got it? Travel Save Tomorrow
Night seven thirty Steve Cangelosi The Matchon Apple TV. It's a free on
MLS season pass. Also get iton the Apple TV app. And of
course you can listen to FC Cincinnativersus Charlotte on ESPN fifteen thirty. Pregame

(01:36:27):
show starts at seven pm twenty nineaway for twenty nine a half for five
o'clock. ESPN fifteen thirty broadcasting fromthe Holy Ground Downtown. We're here till
six getting set for Reds and MarlinsTonight, Sports headlines and more next to
ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station,Cincinnatis. I can't wait for that.

(01:36:48):
This show will not be on tomorrow. Tony and Austin are doing the show
tomorrow. I can't wait to listen. Sports headlines, service of Kelsey Chevrolet,
home of lifetime powertram protection and guaranteedcredit approval from their family to yours
for Live Kelsey chev dot Com,Reds and Marlins Tonight, first of three
at GABP Carson Spires and Yanni Chirinos. You'r Hurlers called him Hurlers seven ten

(01:37:13):
Tonight seven hundred WLW starting lineup thanksto Madewell Restoration. Not sure what your
home needs, Madewell can help.Madewell restoration dot Com, India's leading off
at second, Elliott short Candelario isdhing, Spencer Steer at first, Tyler
Stevenson catches Jake Freeley's in left field, batting six, Starling Marte at third
base, Rees Higns and right.Will Benson is in centerfield and batting ninth.

(01:37:36):
Paul Skens is gonna start the AllStar Game for the National League.
Florence plays Washington tonight and FC Cincinnatipreparing for tomorrow night's tilts against Charlotte at
the Soccer Stadium on the West endof Cincinnati. Also this weekend, it's
the Major League Baseball Draft. Roundone begins on Sunday evening. Reds have

(01:37:59):
the second overall pick in this year'sdraft. My draft guy is Chris Crawford,
NBC Sports, Rodeo World and alsoan iHeartMedia colleague at KJRN, Seattle.
Uh. I guess it's always goodto have the second overall pick.
Some years maybe better so than others. Is this a good year to have
the second overall pick? I thinkany year is a good year to have

(01:38:25):
the second overall pick. There arecertainly better years than others. I think
this is a really good year.To have the second overall pick for a
couple of reasons. Number one,there's three or four elite players in this
class, and so that's good.The problem also is after those top three
or four, this draft class reallylacked the quantity and quality that you would

(01:38:48):
look like. I can't remember whereCincinnati was supposed to pick before the lottery.
I can't remember where I put mycar Key's. How am I supposed
to remember where the Cincinnati read we'resupposed to pick. But if they were
picking in that slot, it wouldnot be a good year to have that
type of pick. But because ofthe college bat, because there is some
upside with those plays, I dobelieve, to answer your question very long

(01:39:11):
wiggedly, that it is a verygood year to have the number two things.
All right, So obviously one guy'sgoing to come off the board that's
going to leave the Reds with theirpick of a handful of elite players.
As you put it, who's theguy that I want? I think that
the guy that you want is goingto be the guy that you get,
and that I think is Charlie Common, an outfielder's last third baseman, almost

(01:39:32):
assuredly third baseman, And where evensome question marks about that position. This
guy. I mean, you've allseen the stats. They're absolutely bonkers.
This guy has elite power and youcan't help but think playing in that ballpark,
gapv the or GABP excuse me thathe couldn't hit forty to forty five
homers on a regular basis. It'sthat type of power. But it's not

(01:39:54):
just that one tool. He isa plus hit tool. He has a
very strong throwing army. It couldplay and right field for sure if he
has the athleticism for it. Butit'll certainly play at the hot corner for
a few years. And you knowwhat, it'll help with cutoff throws if
you have to move, make themove to first base. I like Travis
Benzana. I think Jock Kasianoglely hasa chance to be a really nice player.

(01:40:15):
I don't believe in the two waystuff that much with him, but
just the terms of high ceiling,high floor, I believe that Charlie kalmdun
is the best player in this draft. All right, high ceiling, high
floor college guy. Does that meanif he's the guy at number two,
I could see him a great Americanballpark reasonably soon? Yeah? Absolutely,
I think that it wouldn't be anupset at all if he was playing in
twenty twenty five. Now, withthat on it, For every Paul Schemes,

(01:40:40):
we see a bunch of these guyswho end up taking a couple of
years of development. But I thinkthat's one of the reasons why you're taking
him number two, is because theoffensive skill set is so advanced. He
recognizes pitch as well. Obviously thepower is not hypothetical here. We have
seen what this guy can do interms of taking the ball out of the
ballpark. Now, some of thismight de kind on what they do with
him defensively. You know, ifthey want him to play in the outfield,

(01:41:03):
maybe it takes a little bit longerbecause you've got some stuff to work
out there. But if you madethe move just to third base, I
think this is absolutely somebody who couldbe helping you. You know, if
I put an Eta on it sometimearound the All Star break twenty twenty five,
if not certainly helping you in twentytwenty six, let's let's kind of
talk about beyond the first round.And you know, obviously there's this is

(01:41:26):
going to take place over multiple days, but like, where's where's the strength
in this draft? Where just ateam like the Reds, where can they
get better during this year's draft process. You know, that's probably the nice
thing for Cincinnati as well, isthat there aren't a lot of elite high
school bats. There's only two thatI would give first round first round grades

(01:41:47):
too, in Connor Griffin and BryceRain here. But there are some high
school bats that I think make sensein that second round range. Second round
range. Excuse me, some guyslike Theo Gillen. If he was there's
been some talk you can go withhighest fifteen, but I could see him
fling into that range. Kellen Lindsay, one of the best athletes in the
draft, eighty grade runner, areally good defensive player, think that he

(01:42:11):
would make sense in that range.Thinking of guys like Griffith Ferrell, who
is a guy that kind of remindsme a little bit of it gets Gunner
Henderson comparisons. I don't think that'sfair, but I kind of see the
similar school still skill set because everythinghas a chance to be above average.
Obviously, nobody predicted Gunner Henderson tobe this type of pulp runt hitter at

(01:42:32):
that point, but there are somehigh school bats that I think make sense
in that range, And if you'retaking that college high floor guy, it's
a little easier to justify in thesecond round or your next draft pick,
taking somebody who has a little bitlonger to go, a little bit more
helium, a little bit more dreamingthat they have to do. But I
think that is one nice thing forthe Reds as well, is that those

(01:42:55):
prep bats do make sense in thatarea. You and I have talked a
lot about Red prospects who are atthe big league level right now. Yeah,
you know, but I mean we'vetalked extensively about Elie Dela Cruz and
Hunter Green and Nicoldolo and a lotof guys that were watching at the moment,
and guys the Reds have acquired fromother clubs. It has left,
I think a little bit of agap between some of the promise of the

(01:43:17):
lower part of the farm system andwhat they have at the big league level.
Now, so let's just talk aboutthis from a thirty thousand foot view
the farm system as is understanding.Who has graduated to the big league level
of the last year plus, howwould you rate it? It's a really
good question, because I don't thinkyou can just completely ignore that Cincinnati has

(01:43:40):
graduated so much young talent. Havingsaid that, I do think that this
is a farm system that's ranking closerto the bottom half than the top half.
I love Rhet Louder. I thoughtthat was a really good pick.
I believe we talked about it lastyear because you absolutely never ignored me at
this time of year, and Iappreciate it. I need to be attended,
and it's been nice to see.You know, Cam Collier has shown

(01:44:01):
flashes of brilliance. He needs toput it together on a more consistent basis,
for sure. As I look today, he's hitting two thirty one.
But there have been absolutely moments there. Alfred Duno is Alfredo Duno, excuse
me, as one of my favoriteprospects of the catch at the catching position
right now. There are some youngtalented players. Connor Phillips development obviously has

(01:44:24):
been a kind of a disaster intwenty twenty four. That ten point one
one era that I'm staring at rightnow is pretty I believe the kids call
it icky pants, but there's nodoubt that there is talent still in the
system. But you're looking at likeRed Lauder probably profiling as a mid rotation
starter, Edwin a Royal, probablyprofiling as a regular, but a bottom

(01:44:45):
of the order type of hitter,a guy who hit seventh, eighth,
nine, Cam Collier, maybe abench bat right now, South Stewart,
some real defensive question marks going onright there, and also probably profiles as
a left hand or excuse me,a guy who comes in and hits against
left handed pitchers. Those are niceplayers to have, but they're not necessarily
the star type of prospects that youwant to have at the top of your

(01:45:09):
system. There's some work to bedone, and that's why it's another thing.
It's great to have the number twopick because you're going to add a
top fifteen to twenty prospect, maybeeven a top ten prospect with that second
What about my new favorite player,Reese Hines? Where are you and him?
So race signs? I think isreally fun and I know that the

(01:45:30):
numbers have just been absolutely bonkers,and I hope everyone is having a blast.
I hope everyone's already ready for thecomedown too, because this is a
guy who struck out one hundred andtwenty six times in two hundred ninety six
at bats. But you see thatthe ball just jumps off of this dude's
bat. And it's never been aquestion mark with power With him, it's
never really been a question mark withathleticism. He also has a cannon of

(01:45:51):
an arm. He's that type ofplayer that you just kind of love to
watch because he hit ball real farand he throw ball real fast. I
have real question marks about whether ornot the hit tool can actually play,
but it's a really fun story,and I don't think there's any reason to
think he can't be at least ayouthful bench player. If he puts everything

(01:46:12):
together, he can be a regular, maybe even a slightly above average one.
But you have to acknowledge that thereis just as much risk, if
not more than there is reward.All Right, one more because you're busy,
and this might be a stupid question. So Reese higins, they call
them up, and the first thingwe all do is look at his numbers
at Louisville, and they're not good. How should we contextualize minor league statistics?

(01:46:38):
Who That's a really really good question. It's it's important to see success
at the minor league level, andI think that's growing truer and truer as
we get less levels because you're seeingguys compete against their same talent level like

(01:47:00):
we had. And I don't getme wrong, I hate what's happened to
minor league baseball. I miss seeingshort season baseball and all of that stuff.
But we would see guys that werejust completely overmatched, or we would
see guys that were way too goodto be at that level. I don't
think you see that nearly as oftenanymore. There are some cases of it,
in part because hey, there's onlyso many places that they can go.

(01:47:24):
But I do think there is somesort of correlation between success at the
minor league level and correlation for successat the highest level, more so than
other levels. I will say thisthough, too. You got to take
a look at more stuff. Nowwe have more information like on exive velocity
and launch angle and sprint speed andbarrel right and stuff like that. I

(01:47:47):
think those numbers matter just as much, if not more, than the minor
league stats. Now, I'll behonest with you, I haven't checked out
a ton of resigned stats, butI bet you his extive velocities were among
the very best in minor league.I bet you as barrel Right was among
the very best in minor league baseballtoo. Yes he hit two sixteen.
Yes he strikes out a ton becausehe has a ton of length in his

(01:48:09):
wing and he's not exactly the mostpatient hitter in the world. But I
bet you those advanced stats, whichactually I think matter a little bit more
right now. And if you wantedto argue that we use him too much,
I understand, and it's a changingworld and sorry for you, but
I do think that there is nodoubt that success at the highest level is

(01:48:30):
generally correlated with success at the minorleague level. But there are always exceptions
to those rules. All right,I said that would be my last question.
But what you said prompted a followup. So here is you mentioned
advance metrics. Yeah, well,and me advance metrics. How much of
that data is available when we aretalking about college kids and obviously also high

(01:48:54):
school guys as well as we preparefor the draft. It's available. It's
hard to find, though, anda lot of that stuff is going to
be stuff that you've got to payfor and you have to well. In
the college level especially, it's notgoing to be as obvious. But there
are websites like d one baseball thatwill provide you some context between those things

(01:49:14):
minor league level. It's something thatyou can find on the Baseball savont pages.
You can find. One of thebig things you can find with Baseball
Savants is you can find the DSWthing for pitchers that called strikes and whiffs,
and that is a very important statisticthat you have to keep an eye
on because you know, we're findingthat ERA is not necessarily the best way
to judge pitchers. We want tosee guys who can fool hitters into taking

(01:49:38):
pitches that are strikes and also swingand midst with those pitches. Those numbers
are not as readily available as youget from the major league stats. Baseball
savant ech I might as well bemy homepage at this point, because you
know, it's just part of it'sbeing a Seattle Mariner fan and just looking
for hope watching these guys hit twoeighteen, you know what I mean,
looking for some hard hit percentages.But it those things are readily apparent.

(01:50:00):
The minor league ones you got toscourge a little bit, but you can
find it. Other thing to keepin mind here, too, though,
is as good as Baseball Savant isas good as some of these other tracking
datas is. Major League teams havetheir own tracking data that is much better,
much more advanced than You're never goingto see it, because it is
basically the propriet proprietary technology that they'regoing to keep to themselves. They do

(01:50:26):
it with defensive stuff, they doit with pitch stuff. You know,
they have all sorts of advanced modelsand analytics that they keep to themselves.
We get some public data, whichis cool. They get some private data
which helps them an off a lotoutstanding information. I'll boby you next week.
Have a great weekend, man,Thanks so much, my pleasure.
Have a good one, s Ourguy. Chris Crawford, NBC Sports roto

(01:50:49):
World and he's also now one ofus on the talk radio business KJAR in
Seattle, and the draft starts onMonday. It's going to continue early next
week. We're gonna bother Chris onMonday because well he's gonna tell us about
what the Reds did and what theyneed to do and maybe also what they

(01:51:09):
shouldn't do. Looking forward to that. Also on Monday, you know,
the TBT is coming up, theBasketball Tournament, and the last few years
this area's teams have played at theSantas Center, and now they're going to
be playing at the venue formerly knownas the Shoemaker Center on UC's campus.
We will have Paul Scruggs is goingto join our show on Monday and then

(01:51:33):
Thursday of next week. I'm actuallynot doing my show, I'm doing Lance's
show. But Caine Broome, who'snow a very successful and influential high school
basketball coach, obviously finished his collegecareer at the University of Cincinnati. He's
part of Nasty Natty and the TVTHe is going to join us on Thursday,
so we are looking forward to that. The Baseball Draft from a Reds

(01:51:57):
perspective is interesting because it talked aboutthis with Chris. The Reds had a
really good minor league system, butbecause of so many graduations to the big
league level, the system doesn't feeland I think most analysts would say is
not quite as good. They've gotsome areas to replenish, and I still

(01:52:18):
think at some point the idea forthis franchise is to consistently have a pipeline
of players who when they get tothe big leagues are ready to contribute.
And they had a bunch of thoseguys get to the big leagues last year,
perhaps this season not so much.I think the reshigins, I think
the Resigns analysis is fair. Italked about this a greater length on Wednesday.

(01:52:41):
I don't love the Aristi Aristida isa Keno in real time felt like
a flash in the pan. Ithink most understand what resigns capabilities and limitations
are. But he doesn't feel likea flash in the pan. He feels
like a guy who could carve outa role. Look, not everybody's going
to be a star, Not everybody'sgoing to be an All star are there

(01:53:03):
is room for role players and maybethat's what Reese Signs is. But it
does feel like there can be aplace, and it certainly does feel like
the Reds think there will one daybe a place, and perhaps much much
sooner rather than later. For reSigns, who is back in the Red
starting lineup atting eighth in right fieldtonight. That music means we have to

(01:53:24):
go. I want to thank theawesome staff at the Holy Grail for taking
such great care of us. Thanksto our guy Mike Mills for producing here
on site. Of course, ourguy Tarren Bland back in Kenwood, and
thanks to you for listening. Ifyou're still out and about, come on
out hang out at the Holy Grail. Got to be an hour and twenty

(01:53:45):
minutes before first Pitch Red's and Marlinstonight, and if not this evening,
perhaps at some point this weekend wehave to go back at it Monday at
three h five. Have an awesomeweekend and we'll talk to you Monday.
This is es P fifteen thirty andalso thanks to michelob Ultra for sponsoring the
michelob Ultra five o'clock Happy Hour.This is ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports Station

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