Chip Zien: HARMONY Touches on Themes Relevant for Today

Michael Riedel and Christine Nagy chat with Broadway veteran Chip Zien about his role as the "Rabbi" in the Barry Manilow/Bruce Sussman musical HARMONY. He explains how the show touches on current themes. He also reminisces about working with Stephen Sondheim. HARMONY opened Monday, November 13, at the Ethel Barrymore Theatre.

Episode Transcript

(00:02):
iHeartRadio Broadway presents Inside Broadway, thepodcast about everything theater. It's where you
hear what happens from the ticket windowto the stage door, with the stars
and creative forces that make it allcome alive. Here are your hosts,
wo Rs Michael Riedle and Light FM'sChristine Nagy. We are delighted, Christine,

(00:25):
to have one of the great Broadwayperformers of all time. I've seen
him. I actually think the firsttime I saw him would have been in
If I'm not Mistaken nineteen eighty eightat the Martin Beck Theater, playing the
Baker in the legendary Steve Sondheim musicalInto the Woods. That means I saw
him too highly possible that could havebeen. And Chip Zion is our guest,

(00:52):
and he's now come back to Broadwayafter all these years. Yeah,
the story's on break that's right,starring at a show that I've been a
fan of for a long time,Harmony by Barry Manilow and Bruce Hussman.
And I know that Barry's been workingon the show for almost twenty years,
and I love Barry to death,and I'm so delighted for the success that
Harmony is heaving on Broadway in nosmall part because of its star, Chips

(01:14):
Iron, and he joins us nowand inside Broadway. Hey, Chip,
it's good to be here. Goodto see you, Michael. Yeah,
good to see you. Thank youso Chip. For those who have not
seen the show, give us alittle bit of a context of what you're
doing in the show. Well,you had to be an older person to
get this role, which they haveadded, which they have, which they

(01:37):
have added in to the show.The actors home right, Yes, for
this production, they got me outof the home, brought me back in
and so well, the show's abouta group that's saying in the twenties and
thirties in Germany, the comedian Harmonists. They were hugely popular, They made

(01:57):
movies and they played carry Hall.They were hugely popular and famous at the
time. But then they got erasedfrom history because as Germany in pre war
Germany, when basically Hitler came inand didn't like Jews singing. It's kind
of weird, uh, Jews lovedto sing. By the way without Jews,

(02:23):
no American songbook. Exactly what wouldBroadway be without us? But and
and what they did for this productionon Broadways was that they added in an
older rabbi, which was luckily asme and uh, they they they they
were trying to find a hook tosort of make the show a bit more

(02:46):
cohesive, and I, you know, I got a call and uh and
I ended up in the show andit's uh, it's a pleasure. And
I think also I wanted to sayone other thing though, it's the Harmonists
witnessed Germany's decline into a horrible authoritarianregime, as we right know. Well,

(03:08):
but what's interesting they're the Harmonists thoughthey were doing they were there in
Weimar, Germany where everything seemed tobe exploding culturally, artistically, and they
kind of rode that and that wasjust cut down out of nowhere by the
election of Hitler. And he waselected in nineteen thirty three. That's right,
we say. We had an advisorwho worked with us on the show

(03:30):
about the culture of Germany at thetime, the Wymart Republican. He was
saying that one of the problems thatpeople had in that time was that they
had too much hope and not enoughfear. Yeah, and I love that
quote because I think it's true.It's why so many people stayed in Germany,

(03:50):
never imagining that things could get sohorrible, And so the show touches
on that. And was this astory that you were familiar with? Because
I didn't know about it until thisshow. I knew nothing about it.
In fact, I'm actually hurt becausethe show's been around for like twenty years
in a slightly different form, andI was never asked to do it,

(04:15):
and I had so many friends whodid do it and I never you know,
I didn't know about it was reallyweird. I had also said that
to my again, to my age, that I really didn't want to play
any more seventy year old rabbis anymore. And I was, what else can
we broaden our And when they sendit to me, when they send it
to me, when they sent itto me, they said, like,
Chip, I know you have feelingsabout these kinds of roles, but I

(04:38):
would like you to do it.And I said, well, what is
it? He said, well,it's a show by Barry Man alone Bruce
Husman. And I said, BarryMadeloe, as I said to you earlier
today, I said, what arewe going to be seeing? Clipa cabana?
I mean, like, what isit going to be and I want
it looks like we ate it exactly, but I want the listeners to know
that it's a completely original score.It's not Jubox musical in anyway. Barry

(05:02):
has brilliantly captured the time period andwritten this gorgeous music. It's a fantastic
score, and I think it's importantfor people. I also want to say
something for my old friend Bruce Sussman, who you know, Berry's the famous
buddy. But Bruce writes the lyricsand he writes beautiful lyrics to Barry's tunes.
Oh they're great. Bruce's work isalso amazing, and he did the

(05:26):
book to the book is amazing.And I get to say these great lines
like oh you know, oh gosh, I'm going totally blank. And I
did two shows yesterday. Well thatwould explain totally blank today. But you
know, I changed my clothes alot in the show. So I get
to play a lot of different people. Then one of them is Einstein,

(05:49):
and Einstein gets to say a lotof chip. Have you noticed since the
attack on Israel from Hamas on Octoberseventh that there's a chain in the way
the audience is reacting to the showwell, you know, our show has
landed at this critical moment in history, and we touch on themes that are

(06:14):
very relevant today. And the showbecomes at the end quite emotional, and
it's wonderfully silent in the theater aswe sort of explain what happened to the
group and why they disappeared, andyou know, it's just been it's been

(06:38):
a very emotional experience. When wego out to the stage store at the
end of the show and there's alot of people standing there, you know,
they're tearful, they're appreciative, andit does seem to have a greater
impact because of the current political situationin the world. I did want to
ask you about that, how itis for you emotionally, just the show

(07:00):
in and of itself and this journey. I know you've got a beautiful,
great sense of humor and that's probablygetting you through. But it's quite a
journey to take my arcus. Myarc is rather dramatic, and yes,
I start out fooling around and havingloads of fun. I get to talk

(07:20):
to the audience and it's the guysare fun. They're like Grocho Marx if
I mean, they're like the Marxbrothers if they could sing. And so
we have a really good time.But we take a turn, and it's
an honor to get to say thethings that I say at the end,
and you know, it becomes abit of a cautionary tale, and I

(07:43):
get to explain that at the endof the show and it is very emotional,
and I do have to live throughthat every night, and but I
consider it to be kind of anhonor. Well, that's the power of
theater. I mean you it alwaysif a good show is going to be
relevant all the time, for nomatter what the political wins are, which
is what Harmony has become sadly,deeply irrelevant in some ways. So Ship,

(08:07):
I want to talk about your background, because you are a dare I
say it, a veteran Broadway performerwho could still do the Jonathan Groff rolls
if he wanted to Damn Merrily.Would be so much fun, you know,

(08:28):
I know, it would be Oh, you'd be at the Yeah,
you'd be at the beginning. Butthen someone would have because it goes backwards
in time. I do want totalk about are well. He was sort
of ambivalent about me. Steve signedon. We had an up and down
relationship over the years. But Intothe Woods was one of the great shows
I saw when I was in college, and you and Joanna Gleason just knocked

(08:50):
me out as the baker and theBaker's wife. Can you tell us that
first moment where either Steve or somebodyplayed you the songs that you were going
to hear in that show? Andwhat was that like for him? Well,
well, it was an amazing experience. I mean, you know,
one of the greatest experiences of mylife was to be up at Sondheim's house

(09:13):
in his brownstone, which was aglass in case like a green room.
It was beautiful, By the way. His next door neighbor was Catherine Hepburn,
and she used to climb the rosetrellis on his wall at three am.
Sonheim will tell this story and andand pound on his wind because he

(09:35):
was playing the piano in the middleof the night and they didn't get along
particularly. Well, there's a lineand Into the Woods, which is it's
the witch from next door. AndI'm not saying that I know for certain,
but I've always because I've been.I actually had occasion to be in
her house too. At one pointI was in a film with her,

(09:56):
and I was in her house.She tells the story from the other side
about this nut lives who lives inthe brownstone next door. She told,
you know, but but yeah,there is a line and into the woods
that I that I've always felt referencedhis his living situation. So it was
amazing. Well, you know,James Lapine brought me to Sondheim because we

(10:22):
had done all the falsetto stuff togetherright of course, and and you know,
I learned Franklin Shepherd inc the Typewritersong with it for my audition for
it with just I worked on itharder than I've ever worked on anything.
And anyway, we end up atSondheim's house and he's setting keys. He

(10:43):
said, you know, he's worthsetting keys on his piano. And at
some point he takes out this manuscript. In the old days, they folded
up music like an accordion, andhe unfolds it and he sings no more,
you know, I mean, itwas remarkable to hear him sing his

(11:03):
own songs, and I thought,this is unbelievable. I'm you know,
I'm from Milwaukee, and I'm nowstanding in Steven Sondheim's house watching him sing.
I mean, it was like adream come true. Obviously, it
was just everything about it. Therewas another moment when Steve we filmed the
show for PBS for Great Performances andafter I had a superstition at the time

(11:28):
that I always leave the light offin my dressing room and light on,
and I'd only turn it off whenI leave. And the night after that's
taping, which was fantastic. Itwas like a rock you know, it
was like a rock concert with anaudience that knew every line and every lyric
of every number. I went intomy dressing room after the show and my

(11:50):
light was off, and I thought, that's really weird, that's strange.
And I turned it on and Stevewas sitting there and he said, he
said to me, and I thought, like, oh, unbelievable. He
said to me, he said,Chip, I know, I know you'd
understand this. He said, thisis one of the greatest nights we will
ever have in our lives, youknow, And it was just this we

(12:15):
were talking crying, so, youknow, and he said, I thought
you'd understand, and it was justI mean, you know, he was
amazing, kind of old school showbiz. Really. He bridged the he bridged
the gap to the to newer form. But he you know, he he
liked it when you were funny andfaster and you know, said his lyrics

(12:39):
very clearly and said new instead ofnew and stuff like, huh. It
was you know it was. Ifelt like the luckiest kid on the block.
It was just that I got toknow him. Well, tell us
about that as well, if youdon't mind, because your story of just
getting too Broadway, yeah, ofsaying you kind of faked your way in

(13:01):
from Welwaukee. Yeah, well,Shirley, Yeah, well they yeah,
that was a show set in Milwaukee. Yeah, that's right. No,
I had a weird uh path.I was really going to law school.
That was the goal. And mystepsister was running a theater outside of Chicago

(13:22):
called the Chateau Louise, which wasa dinner theater, a dinner theater repertory
company of kids from it at thetime, from the University of Wisconsin.
And somebody got sick and I shesaid, you know you can sing.
You come down here. You canplay all the leads on all these shows.
So I went to the Chateau Louiseand West Dundee, Illinois, and

(13:45):
a few weeks later, the weon a Sunday night, we'd gone to
town to see a movie. Wecame back to the restaurant, a motel
hotel where we were living above thetheater, and it was on fire and
it burned to the ground, andso so we that was a bad review.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, itwas like so we had two cars

(14:07):
between us, all the kids,all of us who worked at the theater.
One car went to New York.One car went to California. Those
people were never heard from again.I had gone to school out east,
so I had a lot of friendsin New York. So I got in
the car that went to New Yorkand borrowed couches and and of friends who
I had gone to college with,and I went to Penn which is now

(14:30):
controversial, having a moment. Andyou know, the couch that I borrowed
belonged to a very dear friend ofmine who was dating an agent who lived
in his building. And that's howmy Chris, and she said, you
don't look like an actor at all. She said, if I were you,
what does your dad do, I'dgo back and work for your dad.

(14:52):
Yes. So but the next dayshe called me and she sent me
out on a commercial for Planter Peanutsand I got it. And then a
couple of days later she had explainedto me there was there was a newspaper
called Backstage, And the next thingI knew, I had gone to an
audition for Charlie Brown. And Igot into Charlie Brown. The that went

(15:15):
to the Ford's Theater. But Igot my equity card and I was off
and running. Wow, that's whatI happened. You know. The thing
about that, though, Chip,and this is what my concern is for.
You know, the new talent comingup. Back in those days,
you could come to New York andyou could live here on a couch.
You could live here for not alot of money. And now New York
has become so expensive. Where doesthe new chip zions come from? You

(15:37):
know, I don't they afford tolive here. I think it's completely different.
You could never do what I didnow. I mean, I you
know, I faked my way intothe Charlie Brown audition. I claimed that,
I mean I was. It wasfor callbacks, and I claimed like,
yeah, no, I know,I didn't even know what a callback
was. And I and I wentand I said, no, I'm being
called back. I'm called back.She said, I can't find your name

(16:00):
on the list. I said,well, it's a big mistake. I
mean, it's very believable. AndI even asked. There was a very
lovely young actress there and I askedto borrow her. I said, what
are you singing at this audition?She said, I'm singing something from Stop
of the World. I said,well, can I borrow your music because

(16:22):
the song I'm going to Build aMountain is in that book. So so
you know, and I got thatjob. But you couldn't do that now,
you couldn't fake your way. Andeverybody goes to first you know,
everybody's going to conservatories and drama schooldrama schools. They're all incredibly well prepared.
They have a book of material,they have memorized monologues that you know,
you can't What I did was wascrazy, which they have to audition

(16:47):
via zoom ye se so completely different. Chip. It's just really wonderful to
meet you and your work. Thankyou don't need me to tell you is
incredible, So thank you so much. I could talk to you all day.
Thank you. Reason you and Ican swap I know, have you
decided are you writing a book?You know, I've thought about it.

(17:07):
I tried years ago to write abook, but somebody said, well,
you know, if you were KerryGrant, it might be interesting. That's
a sign that you have to writethe book. Yeah, because everybody,
anytime somebody tells you, see whatyour dad do, something else the opposite.
I do have a lot of stories. You too, I'm sure.
Money. It's been so much funbeing here with you, guys. Thank
you. It was Ary Manlowe whowas plucked cherry and out of obscurity.

(17:33):
There you go out of the ActressHome, New Jersey. Chip, it's
great to see you. I've alwaysadmired your work and it's been great fun.
So take care, take care,guys. Thank you so much.
So. Christine Bribre just talking withChip Zion, who was the famously the
baker in Stephen Sometimes into the Woods. Yes, and uh Glennis Johns just
died at one hundred years old.And she was in Stephen Sometimes a Little

(17:57):
Night Music in nineteen seventy three andshe introduced the famous song send in the
Clowns. She was the very firstperson to sing send in the Clowns,
Oh Wow, which was the onlychart song that Steve sondheime ever had.
Steve wrote these great musicals, butnone of the songs ever broke out,

(18:18):
but Sending the Clowns was one ofthe great pop songs of all time.
So I was thinking about this,and I talked to Glennis John's about this
years ago. And they were outof town at the Colonial Theater in Boston
in nineteen seventy three, trying toput the show together, and there was
this big hole in the show becauseGlennis needed a song. Remember, she
played an actress who rekindled a relationshipwith a lawyer that she had not seen

(18:45):
in a long time, and they'dbeen each other's great loves, but life
had taken them in different directions,and there was a big hole in the
show. And Hal Prince said toSteve Sondheim, He said, Steve,
I need a song for Glennis thebeginning of the second hand. I need
a song. And Steve went tohis hotel room that night and he wrote

(19:06):
Send in the Clowns in about fivehours. Wow. What he could do
musically was he knew that Glennis wasnot the greatest singer of all time,
and she had a very limited range. So once he realized that. He
said, I can do this songwith only six or seven notes, so
she doesn't have to high or low. I'll keep her in this range.

(19:32):
And if you listen to Sending theClowns, anybody can sing it because it
doesn't go too high or too low. So isn't it rich? Are we
a pair? Me here at last? On the ground you in Miday Sending
the Clowns. So he specifically teloredthat song for her very limited voice,

(19:59):
and it became his only big hitout of every show that I ever wrote.
That is incredible, no idea.I feel like when I'm hearing news
stories about her passing, it's alwaysin regards to Mary Poppins, that she
played the mom and Mary Poppins themovie. Do you remember her? Do
you remember her as the Mom andMary Poppins growing up? Yeah, yes,

(20:21):
you know, but like you said, it's I think more for theater.
She's more associated with Broadway in myhead. Well, but in Mary
Poppins, you remember, you know, she sings, we're clearly soldiers and
petty coats, dauntless crusaders for women'svotes over adore men. Individually, we

(20:41):
a group that as we agreed thatas a group. They're rather their stupid.
So cast off the shackles of yesterday, shoulder to shoulder, and
to the fray. Our daughter's daughterswill adores, and they'll sing in grateful
chorus. Well done, sister Suffragette. She was an early campaigner for women's

(21:03):
rights to vote. Mary Poppins,that's fifty. That's right, you're bringing
it all back for us, saidso we paid tribute to the great Glynnis
Johns, who has died at onehundred years old. All right, we'll
see you next time on Inside Broadway.