PM Show Hr 2 | Talking to Former Trump Press Secretary Sean Spicer

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
It's that time. Time time, luck and load. The Michael
Verie Show is on the air. I mean, I'm going
to cut into it. We got three audio bits I
want to cram into this.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Number one is Mark Zuckerberg claims that Meta, which is Facebook,
has never considered sharing your data with the Chinese government. Well,
Sarah Wynn Williams is a former Facebook employee turned whistleblower,
and she confirmed for Senator Josh Hawley that Meta was
willing to store data in China and give the Chinese
government access to your data.

Speaker 3 (00:42):
So I want to just be clear about this here
in this document, Facebook is talking about making Chinese user
data available to the Chinese government because they're going to
store that data in China.

Speaker 1 (00:53):
Is that correct correct?

Speaker 3 (00:54):
So when you store that data in China Americans who
exchange messages or their information with Chinese Facebook users, that
would mean the Chinese government could get access to the
American data as well.

Speaker 1 (01:05):
Is that correct? Through the pop servers potentially?

Speaker 4 (01:08):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (01:08):
And Facebook was willing to take that risk.

Speaker 4 (01:11):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (01:11):
There was a lot of discussion about this and ultimately yes.
I mean, this is extraordinary.

Speaker 3 (01:19):
This is exactly contrary to what Facebook has represented for years.
Here They're willing to build data center store data in China.
They are willing explicitly to give the Chinese government access
to it, and if that means that American user data
is also compromised, they're willing to do that too. All
for profits in China. There was virtually nothing they weren't

(01:39):
willing to do. Kind of says it, all, doesn't it.

Speaker 2 (01:42):
Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth says, we will take back
the Panama Canal from China's influence.

Speaker 5 (01:48):
United States of America will not allow communists, China, or
any other country to threaten the Canal's operation or integrity.
To this end, the United States and Panama have done
more in recent weeks to strengthen our defense and security
cooperation than we have in decades. That includes our meeting

(02:09):
today and announcements to come. Our relationship with Panama, especially
our security relationship, will continue to grow in the months
and years ahead. Our relationship is growing in part to
meet communist China's rising challenge. China based companies continue to

(02:31):
control critical infrastructure in the canal area that gives China
the potential to conduct surveillance activities across Panama. This makes
Panama and the United States less secure, less prosperous, and
less sovereign. I'm going to be very clear, China did

(02:52):
not build this canal, China does not operate this canal,
and China will not weaponize this canal. Together, we will
take back the Panama Canal from China's influence, and we
will do this along with other capable, like minded allies
and partners.

Speaker 4 (03:11):
This is what piece through strength looks like.

Speaker 2 (03:14):
When you look at the trade that goes through the
Panama Canal and the power of that little tiny piece
of real estate, you understand that our nation's security depends
on our control of that space and finally for the
remainder of the segment, because it's beautiful. Victor Davis Hansen

(03:36):
does a be youto ful job of explaining what President
Trump is doing with China in a battle for global power.
If you listen to anything, let it be this. I
like to talk today about China. It seems to be
on everybody's mind, but explicitly on Donald Trump's mind. That's
the one common denominator that explains his interest on Panama

(03:57):
and not to turn over our key transit from East
to West coast to China. China has no business there,
and the same thing with Greenland. He's worried about the
Chinese having access to the Arctic Circle. He's worried about
their trade surplus. He's worried about circumventing onfair trade by
assembling their products in Mexico. He's worried about them sending

(04:21):
raw product of fentanyl. He's worried about their surrogates, the
sort of mad pit bulls like North Korea and increasingly
Iran that he cuts the leash every once in a
while and says, key being China, go to it cause chaos.
He's worried that China is intimidating countries in the Pacific
and in Asia, some of our strongest friends, Australia, South Korea, Taiwan,

(04:46):
the Philippines, Vietnam, saying things like the United States is
in decline, you.

Speaker 4 (04:50):
Better cut a deal.

Speaker 2 (04:52):
Essentially, they're like Japan in nineteen forty and they're trying
to read fashion something like the Japanese East Asian co
Prosperity sphere that was a mercantile system aimed at the West,
which soon they were to be at war at So
is it all depression and what Trump is saying is
for us to stop this, we've got to balance our budget.

(05:15):
We can't spend three billion dollars a day on interest.
If we're going to do this, we have to have
trade parity. We can't keep running up a trillion a
trillion and a half dollars in tradeser plus. And when
he looks at us at home, he says, the ESG
this equity social governance, that we don't look at productivity
and stocks. But whether they're politically correct or dei and woke,

(05:38):
this anti marior it doesn't work. The Chinese love it.
We will not be competitive if we look at the border.
You can't have an open border with thirty million illegal aliens.
That is a drag on productivity. You have to have security.
So what he's doing is in all these areas is
identifying the threat that China poses and why we with
an open, transparent and capitalist society can achieve our preeminence,

(06:03):
our guarantee, our pre emins if we make changes.

Speaker 1 (06:06):
And it's not necessarily a pessimistic picture. I just give
you some statistics.

Speaker 2 (06:11):
Yes, China has two thousand fighters, we have fifteen hundred.
The fighters aren't the only story. They're bombers, they're logistics plane,
they're intelligence planes. When you look at all of the
US Air Force, we have about fifteen hundred more planes,
and we have over five hundred fifth generation fighters. I
think they only have about sixty. Yes, they are building

(06:32):
two hundred times more ships than we are. Remember, we
built the largest navy in World War Two that turned
out by nineteen forty five, larger than all the navies
in the world. We were building a liberty or freedom
mercantile vessel, big ten twelve thousand ton vessels every five days.

(06:52):
We built three thousand of them. We built one hundred
and twenty carriers of different classifications, so we were the
shipbuilder now China, but when you actually look at our fleets,
we still still have eleven fleet carriers and army groups
Navy groups around them there are over one hundred thousand tons.

(07:12):
They're all nuclear. China has two and it's billing a third.
We have about eighty seven eighty five to eighty seven submarines.
They have about sixty, but every one of ours is nuclear,
not theirs. They only have about six or seven. If
you look at all of these statistics on economics, they

(07:34):
have one point four billion people. We have about three
hundred and thirty five three hundred and forty million people,
but we produce one and a half times of nominal GDP.

Speaker 1 (07:44):
That's China.

Speaker 2 (07:45):
So one American produces one and a half times more
goods and services than his four Chinese counterparts. If you
look at per capita income, we're still ranked six the
nation and the world China seventy three. Americans had a
lot more purchasing power per capita than Chinese.

Speaker 1 (08:07):
So what time.

Speaker 2 (08:07):
Let me put this all together in conclusion, China is
a sendant and we are static. Trump comes in and
he's looking at things at home that will restore our
global pre eminence.

Speaker 1 (08:20):
Some don't want to hear it. He'll just go ahead
and say it. Sorry, Michael Verry Show.

Speaker 2 (08:28):
Let's go back. January twenty seventeen. President Trump has, in
the most improbable win in the modern era, won the
White House, and he's going in and the battle really
begins now because half the people there can't be trusted,
half the people there are working against him. It has

(08:51):
taken all these years to really find out what was
going on. But there were some loyal folks who were
in the trench with him. And I think back now,
you know, this has been a really soaring administration because
President Trump learned you can't trust those people you got,
and he's.

Speaker 1 (09:10):
Gone in with all the momentum.

Speaker 2 (09:12):
Right, It wasn't like that back in January twenty seventeen.
One of the guys, probably the guy who was getting
beat up the worst, through no fault of his own.
He was just taking the beating and getting back up
with Sean Spicer, the Press Secretary and communications director, and
he's our guest.

Speaker 1 (09:28):
Welcome to the programs, hir.

Speaker 4 (09:31):
Hey, Michael, good to be with you. Thank you.

Speaker 2 (09:33):
You got to be thinking, as you see Carolyn Levitt
up there, going.

Speaker 1 (09:38):
Hey, I didn't have it this easy.

Speaker 4 (09:43):
Well, you know, it's funny when you say that. I
had a conversation with the President a couple of weeks back,
and he was asking, he said, you know, this is
just how he operates. He always says, how do you
think it's going? How's everyone doing? And I said to him, sir,
I'm a little jealous. He started laughing and said, why
do you say that. I said, because you know, we
came in. He was very magnanimous, and he said, oh,

(10:05):
that's nice and that and I said, well, it's true.
I think we we went in for you know, with
all the best intentions, and to your point in your introduction,
there were some people that didn't share that, and they
thought that they either were there to serve their own
agenda or to resist his. And I think a lot
of it was new. And I've said to folks before,

(10:26):
you know, part of the thing for me was I
actually had this very fun conversation with him at one
point and we're talking about traditions and how the White
House operates that he looks at me and he said, Sean,
I'm going to be the most traditional president ever.

Speaker 1 (10:40):
And I was like, oh cool.

Speaker 4 (10:41):
I know tradition. I can that guy got this that
and that clearly wasn't the case. And and you know,
he beats to his own drum and he has his
own style in his way, and it's just it was
it was a learning experience for a lot of us.
And like I said, so I I was so super

(11:01):
proud to have been part of that. But it's different.
And here's the thing, Michael, I've identified three things, the people,
the process, and the policies. And you touched on this
at the beginning, at the beginning of your segment. And
what I mean by the people is LESTI he trusted
a lot of people that they said, oh I want

(11:22):
to serve in the Trump administration, where they were recommended
by somebody, and so he took their workforce, and they
weren't people that were there for the right necessarily intentions.
This time, the people that he's runt on board, he knows,
he trusts they understand the goal at hand, and that's
a very different dynamic. Okay, So that's number one. Then
we go to the policies. He knows exactly what he

(11:44):
wants to do and how to do it. He knows
what he wants to fight for, what he wants to accomplish.
And the last is the process, which is he knows
how to do it now not only the levers of
government to pull, but where the resistance is going to
come from. Okay, and that is important because he sort
of if you think about it, day one, Tom Holman's

(12:05):
doing all of these immigration roundups, you knew what cities
to go to, where to find them. They didn't just
think of this out of thin air. It wasn't just
you know, maybe we should go to Boston, maybe we
should go to Chicago. They knew where to go because
they had been spending four years plotting and planning exactly
what they would do if they got back in office.

Speaker 2 (12:25):
And you see it. It is a well executed strategy,
brilliant in its in its plan and flawless in the execution.
I also think that he brought in you were a
guy that was willing to withstand the slings and arrows.

Speaker 1 (12:41):
I think there were some folks who weren't.

Speaker 2 (12:42):
They were a little more retiring, a little more reticent,
a little more reserved. Mike Pence was not really, you know,
a battle weary partner for him. He's got guys that
really enjoy going into into the fire, you know, Jay
the Vans and Pete hegg Seth and Toolsey and each

(13:03):
one of them ready to take on the battle. And
I feel like that allows him, you know, like like
a leader, a president with his generals. It allows him
to dissipate some of that, to spread some of that.
Elon takes a lot of that hatred, and I think
that I'd be curious to know your thoughts, but I
think that has helped him a lot as well.

Speaker 4 (13:26):
One look at the thing that the media gets wrong,
Michael Is. They keep saying, oh, he's sprouted himself with loyalists.
A dog can be loyal that these people are disruptors.
These are people who understand the agenda and what the
president wants to accomplishment are like, great, I got it.
So whether Paul c RFK or Pete Hegseeth, you know

(13:49):
Lee Delvin at the EPA, these guys are coming in
and saying, Okay, we got it, we got the mission,
We're ready to execute. And frankly, you're seeing the results.
I mentioned Tom Holman, another guy's going in there do this.
But there's one thing that I keep warning Republicans on
which is, guys, we've now seen. You know, Trump got elected,

(14:09):
he made a lot of great things happen. He helped
secure the border, get US energy independent, and what's Biden do?
Undoes all of that through executive order? And then what
is Trump to He undoes the Biden and reinstitutes a
lot of stuff and then builds on it. And my
message to Republicans, especially in the area of immigration, is
if you like what President Trump is doing, then we

(14:32):
need to codify law because if you look at where
President Trump has gotten pushedback it's not this resistance that
we had in the first term. It's the courts. And
what are the courts saying. They're saying, well, the law
is clear that X or not clear that why. And
so my point to my fellow Republicans is, if you

(14:52):
like what President Trump did, if you like what he accomplished,
then don't let another president do it. Codify immigration stuff
and law. Figure out how many business we want, how
many judges, how many CBP or ice agents we want,
set new limits on making us more of a meritocracy.
So we figure out, you know, what kind of immigration

(15:13):
system we want. But we keep budging along and hoping
that President Trump's going to stay in office forever. It's
just not you know, as much as we may want
that to happen, it's not going to happen while we
have majorities. And this is the other point that I
try to make to Republicans is I would love to
believe that we're just going to get judged by, you know,

(15:34):
putting points on the board and delivering for the American people.
But we've seen what it takes to get legislation passed,
and god forbid, we lose the House Republican majority which is,
you know, tenuous at best. We got two more seats
last week because somehow everybody felt like, oh that was great.
I'm like, that's just two more. We're now down to
we're up to a four seat majority. Yay. But if

(15:56):
you really want to ensure that things are going to happen,
then use these next eighteen plus months to actually codify
the Trump agenda, especially in immigration in law.

Speaker 2 (16:09):
I agree the long term reforms, I think, and that's
how you bring real change instead of an overnight win.

Speaker 1 (16:18):
That's the war, not the battle team.

Speaker 2 (16:21):
We'll continue our conversation with Sean Speiser, former press secretary
and communications director in the first trumpet, I don't care
if somebody decu stakes you. You can't shoot at Michael's books.
John Spicer was Press secretary and Communications director under President
Trump in the early days, the tough days, the time

(16:46):
when UH generals loyal to the president were being entrapped
by the FBI, at a time when Jim Comey was
working very hard to try to put Donald Trump in prison,
at a time when the security and deep state apparatus
was working against the president and doing things that are unspeakable.

(17:08):
He has some memories shall we say, he's our guests,
let's talk about the border. Obviously something that y'all.

Speaker 1 (17:16):
Worked on very hard.

Speaker 2 (17:18):
I have been I must admit, I have been delighted
and at the same time surprised at the effectiveness and
the swiftness with which this thing has happened and how
successful it has been.

Speaker 1 (17:32):
Your thoughts, Yeah, I mean.

Speaker 4 (17:37):
There's two things.

Speaker 1 (17:38):
Just one.

Speaker 4 (17:38):
It proved to me that if you focus on something anything,
it's not necessarily easy, but you can get results. Right. So,
I mean, whether you're trying to get in shape, or
sell something, or in this case, secure the border. What
happened to under Biden is they allow, they made the
border open. People came in. They gave him sold and

(18:00):
it's the people to come. I tell this story all
the time. I got a buddy of mine that does
a lot of federal contracting with the State Department, and
in the Trump first term, they had assigned throughout America
that said, you know, the borders closed, don't come. When
Biden came into office, they changed the billboards and it
said need help, here's the phone number. Right. They literally
it was a magnet to come into this country. Kamala
Harris might have told people don't. But the reality is

(18:23):
that if you're told if you do, though, we're going
to give you a hotel room, a gift card, free phones, etc.
You're going to come. They understood they wouldn't get kicked out,
they wouldn't be stopped, and so they came. President Trump
changed that in a heartbeat, and you know, Tom Homan
and everyone's rounding people up, making it clear that this
is the priority of this president. But you know, it

(18:44):
just showed you how much we are gas lit by
the Biden administration, right who told us, oh, we can't
do anything, there's nothing wrong, there's no criminals here. Well,
if there were no criminals here, how did President Trump
just round up all those Trende de Agua people and
the NS thirteen baggers, Because you know, under the Biden administration,
they told us our border was secure, nothing was wrong,

(19:06):
and it was clearly a lie.

Speaker 2 (19:08):
It's uh, it's quite interesting. Sean Spicer is our guests.
He was the first UH Press Secretary of Communications director
for President Trump. Let me pull back for our moment
on Trump. Let's talk about Shawn Spicer. How has life
changed for you? What does what does life look like
for you today?

Speaker 4 (19:27):
That's a great question. Uh So, when I walked into
the White House, I had been the communications director and
the chief strategies for the Republican National Committee for six years.
I'd been around Washington working for members of Congress. I'd
just come actually off an active duty deployment. Uh So, I,
you know, I was just your typical staffer and then

(19:47):
walked into the Trump White House and got thrown, you know,
into the deep end real quick. And it was a
challenging yet honorific opportunity to serve the country and the
President Trump. And and then look, it was funny afterwards.
I did stuff that I mean, I have had some
pretty cool moments since I left the White House. I
still stay in touch with President Trump. As I mentioned,

(20:08):
I talked to him on the fund the other day.
He appointed me to the Naval Academy Board of Visitors.
You know, I've got two shows, The Shawn Spicer Show,
airs every night six pm Eastern on YouTube. So I'm
doing stuff, Michael, for the first time. I was always
somebody else's spokesman, and now I get to talk about
what I think and why I think things need to
get done with the priorities. I've written four books. You know,

(20:31):
I may announce assist one soon. It's been fun to
do something when you when your whole life professionally was
focused on you know, even in the military, I was
a public affairs officer, right, and I've always spoken for
other people and entities, and when you leave and get
the opportunity to, you know, launch shows. I have a
show every morning, a live show on my YouTube channel

(20:51):
called The Morning Meeting, where we talk about the issues
of the day. And it's fun to be able to
give people my opinion, my thought, my insights from thirty
years of politics. And that's a very different place than
I've ever been.

Speaker 2 (21:06):
But I gotta imagine with all of that and enjoying
a little more, you know, taking an extra thirty minutes
on your cup of coffee, or making one more lap
on your morning walk if you so choose, or sleeping
in on occasion if you want.

Speaker 1 (21:21):
I gotta imagine for.

Speaker 2 (21:22):
Guys like you, having been in it myself, you have
to miss the adrenaline. It's a drug, and I know
there are days that you are missing that and wishing
you were in there in the battle.

Speaker 4 (21:36):
You know what. The funny thing about you saying that
was I used to. When I left Capitol Hill and
went to different places, I would always say I always
I think that I found it. Like, I don't know
if it's because I have kids now they're teenagers. It's like,
I think my priorities are a little bit different, having
to want to spend time. And I know it's always

(21:57):
like this cliche washing anything. I love it, don't get
me wrong, I will never I'm so honored that President
Trump had me serve as the White House pre Secretary.
But now when I get to do stuff, like I
wake up, like I said, I have the show every
morning it's live for an hour on YouTube where I
walk through with Mark Alper and a guy named Dan

(22:18):
Turntine that we call it the Morning Meeting. It's very
it's just continues to grow in popularity. Then I do
my show that airs at six o'clock on YouTube, And
like I said, I do a lot of writing. I
write columns, so I don't it's almost like I've kind
of pivoted my my love for politics into in two
different ways. So now I can actually openly opine about

(22:40):
what I like to do and what I like to say,
and so I'm fired up. I get your point, Like
I if ten it was a ten year Yeah, ten
years ago, I would know what to do. I used
to work crazy hours at the R and C. And
I think people tell me all the time, you know, wow,
you work crazy hours and how do you ever find time?
And it's because I love it. I love of politics,

(23:00):
I love the back and forth. I love you know
that no day is ever the same. That I had
a great team to work with. I mean, but there's
something about like the last few years where I've enjoyed,
like getting to do things like I've had. I've had
the I was on a reality shows you might recall
the Stars. I did a back night movie. There's stuff
that is a kid from Rhode Island that my dad

(23:22):
sold boats for a living. And to be like, I
can't believe I opened the Enys for goodness sake in
twenty seventeen.

Speaker 1 (23:28):
You do having fun?

Speaker 2 (23:30):
I mean, and yeah, you survived in time because as
you know, a lot of guys don't walk away from
this thing able to hold their head up. A lot
of guys it chews you up and spits you out.
Let me ask you. You said it's about people, But.

Speaker 4 (23:46):
Do you know why though here Here's why though, because honestly,
I don't mean to sound like I'm not the best
at a lot of things, but I have my priorities straight.
And when the opportunity came to get an off ramp,
and I said this to the President because he had
been very gracious he wanted me to stay in the
White House. I was Communications director and White House Press secretary.

(24:08):
And I said it was a president you need, you
need a fresh start. And and I knew that that
was my offering. I honestly believe that God had said
to me, Sean, I'm telling you right now that this
is this is our off ramp. And and and and
I knew if I stayed longer, it wouldn't And like
I said, here we are eight years later. I call him,

(24:28):
he calls me. He was kind enough to reappoint me
to the Naval Academy Board. He's endorsed all four of
the books that I've written. He literally voted for me
on a reality television show when he was President of
United Say that is a guy who you know, he's
had my back, and and I just it is so
to your point, Like, part of the thing is that

(24:50):
I feel like I knew when a lot of people
in Washington can't walk away from power. And I knew
that second the day that I I said that I
was stepping down, that that was going to change forever
I would it would never be the same again. But
I also knew that if I stayed, it would be
the same and it was not going to go.

Speaker 1 (25:11):
It's o the world as we know it, Michael, into
the world.

Speaker 2 (25:22):
John Spicer is our guest, Sean. You know, when I
assess what the President's been able to do, it's it's
in a sort of uh Nixon's first term imperial presidency
sort of manner. And and because he has the House
and the Senate, both of them with it with a tenuous, delicate,

(25:44):
dangling majority that could change, and a lot of folks
that if they have the chance, would stab him in
the back, but right now have to play along. It
concerns me because if things have to go through the
House or the Senate, we've had We've had pretty good
lie up so far.

Speaker 1 (26:00):
But it does concern me.

Speaker 2 (26:03):
What concerns you the most for the continued success of
this president in this country, which I know you care
so deeply about.

Speaker 1 (26:10):
Is it the tariffs?

Speaker 2 (26:11):
Is it is it the financial folks, is it Chinese intervention?
What are the things that you see on the horizon
and you so let's just keep an eye on that.

Speaker 4 (26:21):
Well. I think the greatest that we face is from China.
And I think that if we don't like I think
pretherdand Trump needs him majority. We watched this the first
term when he lost the House majority, they spend all
their time in teaching him, obstructing him, and attacking him.
And so I think that people have to understand he
needs to be able to have the runway. As I
mentioned to you a moment ago, like not just to like.

(26:41):
I love what he's doing now, the tax cuts, getting
the border focused. But if we don't codify some of
these things in legislation before, you know, and maintain a
House and Senate majority, I feel good about the Senate.
Let's so about you know? So anyway, I actually worry
that if he doesn't keep the majority, it's it stunts
the uh the progress that we've.

Speaker 1 (27:03):
Made, uh no doubt.

Speaker 2 (27:07):
And and you know it happened so fast that the
momentum he with which he started and as you said,
it was it was having a plan that you execute.
You know, you have kids. I don't know if you've
been to youth sports, but I've coached youth sports. And
when the other team is better than your team and
you show up on the first day and you go, oh,
those kids, they've been playing together for years.

Speaker 1 (27:29):
And I got a bunch of kids their first year.

Speaker 2 (27:31):
And you know, oh wow, we we came to the
battle and got whipped. He did that to them, and
and it was a blitz greag. He came in and
he just rolled over them. And now I worry. You know,
we've got to keep that momentum going. And that's my concern.
And I know you've been in that room where you
talk about how to jump start.

Speaker 1 (27:49):
That momentum and get it going again.

Speaker 4 (27:54):
And uh, and that's the key, is it stay stay focused.
And I think the president has focus. You know that
he didn't And again it's not that he didn't, it's not.
I don't feel like this is a slight to say,
but I think he is so much more driven now.
Four years out of office has given him such different
perspective about how to get the job done. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (28:15):
I've never seen anything quite like this.

Speaker 2 (28:17):
I mean, you know, we had We've had very few
presidencies separated in this way, and I think once you're
in the White House, you don't get better. We've seen
a decline in presidents in the second term and you're
just fending off.

Speaker 1 (28:31):
But it's like those years in Siberia.

Speaker 2 (28:33):
It's much like when Nixon leaves the vice presidency in
sixty and loses the governor's race in California in sixty two.
And from sixty two to sixty eight, he got better
and he got stronger, and he understood his support and
he understood where his voters were. And I think those
four years, oddly enough, even though he's being dragged to court,

(28:55):
I think Trump did some very deep thinking and I
think he sought some good input. Oh yeah, and he's
a different man today and he's a better leader because
of He's more effective for sure.

Speaker 4 (29:06):
Yeah, no question about it, no question about it. And
so I think the time away, the assassination attempts were
all critical and that thinking.

Speaker 2 (29:18):
When you look at the American public's reaction to Trump,
you know, when y'all came in, he was still a
shock in all guy. People were still sort of frightened
of him. I think people have come to understand, hey,
he can say something he can threaten something, he can
promise something, he can insult somebody from being fat, it's
gonna be okay. Is it interesting or what's your reaction

(29:42):
to how America has learned to process Trump and understand
that's just who he is.

Speaker 4 (29:49):
Well, this goes to the point you are making. I
think one of the things we've only had at one
time previously in history is that when you're able to
contrast like so normally, you know, I think it's two
consecutive terms and you know, maybe you have some you know,
you go, gosh, I wish we had them back or whatever.
But Trump, when he ran against Biden, they contrasted their policies.

(30:10):
You know, Biden got it into office, and then when
Trump came in back and off it where Trump was
running again. I think people said, okay, maybe we didn't
like some of the style thing, but we really saw
the difference in policies between Trump and Biden, and we
need them back. And that was what I think was
critically different, is that the American people had a contrast
that was so different. So I was excited. I think

(30:33):
it's it can't be overstated how impactful it is having
four years between was.

Speaker 2 (30:39):
Yeah, and but what's amazing is, you know, unlike Reagan,
who comes onto the scene seventy six, Ford holds onto
the nomination in eighty. He comes back stronger, but he
spends those four years in relative peace and quiet and
meetings and this sort of thing.

Speaker 1 (30:53):
Those weren't four quiet years.

Speaker 2 (30:55):
I mean, those were four tough years of being dragged
to court and insulted and threatened. And yet all the
while he was he was reloading. And I think that
I've never seen anything like this. It's a juggernaut the
likes of which I've never seen. You've been around politics,
you know, at the highest levels, but I've never seen
a candidate like this, and I don't see a candidate
in the offing like this. Let me ask you this,

(31:19):
do you think the president is able to hold his
coalition through the entirety of his president and presidency? Obviously
the midterms are going to be important. Who out there
worries you as a break in the facade or break
in in the the consensus?

Speaker 4 (31:40):
Well, I don't think any. I mean, look, I think
it's it's rock solid. You've seen so many of these folks.
We didn't have that case in the trumpet, the Freedom
Caucus when we try to repeal healthcare, was was Trump's
biggest opponent. And so now having like you watch just
this budget resolution in the past, you know, the Freedom

(32:01):
ca Andy, Andy Harris and Chip Roy of Texas all
you know, eventually came on board. That was huge.

Speaker 2 (32:09):
Yeah, And I what I see is that there his
support is so deep and so committed and so zealous
that you can't just oppose him if you are a
Republican without being punished for it. His support says, hey,
I got it, mass you got your high minded position,

(32:32):
but we're going to punish you. And I think they've
learned from that and that that's a real impressive way
to govern.

Speaker 1 (32:39):
It's a consensus government.

Speaker 4 (32:40):
Well, but see, it's not just the person. Back when
I was on the hill for a while in the
early two thousands, Tom Delay with the majority whip, and
people knew not to cross Tom because you know, he
would exact political revenge. Donald Trump. It's not even that.
I think people understand the movement will get you. It's
not Donald Trump. People will will you know, or your
constituents will come after you. And that's that's I think

(33:03):
the big difference.

Speaker 2 (33:06):
Yeah, I've never seen at any level of government an
officeholder or candidate whose supporters are so willing.

Speaker 1 (33:14):
To go to bat for him.

Speaker 2 (33:16):
And and you know, I've seen that with foreign leaders,
but certainly none and and his it's such a committed
relationship and he knows it, and he puts it to
good use. John Spicer, you are the best. You're welcome
back anytime. Thank you, my man, Thank you appreciate it.

Speaker 4 (33:33):
Take care of

Speaker 1 (33:36):
Els good, thank you, and good night.