Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Braiden Smith plays for the Indianapolis Colts.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
I don't know that people will know his name.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
He's not he's not the most famous member of the
Indianapolis Colts. He is an offensive tackle, so he's an
offensive lineman with the Indianapolis Colts.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
All right.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
He missed the final five games of the year last year,
and when he took the time, he just said it
was a personal matter. So like they didn't say, you know, like, oh,
he's out with an elbow injury or whatever. It's just
a personal matter. So he finally spoke out yesterday about
(00:43):
what was going on and what his personal matter was.
Smith said, his name is Braiden Smith. Braiden Smith said
he has a type of OCD that prompted him to
spend forty eight days in a treatment facility and then
turned to the use of a psychedelic drug, which he
(01:06):
believes has now saved him. He said, I was physically present,
but I was nowhere to be found.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
I did not care about playing football.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
I did not care about hanging out with my family,
with my wife, with my newborn son. You're ready for
this though, he's twenty nine years old, Okay. He was
eventually diagnosed with a condition known as religious scrupulosity sc
(01:40):
r U p U l O s I t Y scrupulosity.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Anybody ever heard of that?
Speaker 3 (01:49):
No?
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Scrupulosity, scrupulosity, scrupulosity?
Speaker 4 (01:55):
What is it?
Speaker 2 (01:56):
A religious it's an OCD NO is religious scrupulosity.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
It differs from the healthy practice of religion in that
it's driven by anxiety over engaging in actions that might
offend God or be seen as blasphemous. This creates an
obsessive behavior, including constant prayer and repeated repentance, that takes
(02:27):
over your day to day life.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Wow, So does that just mean that you're your your
your overcome in like I'm not.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
I'm not being as as righteous or virtuous. I don't
know what the right word there would be.
Speaker 5 (02:46):
The big worry is that you're offending or angering God.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
But what if you're not doing anything?
Speaker 5 (02:52):
Yeah, but in your head you can't. You can't like
wrestle with you, you wrestle with that like you can't.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
But was he was he doing something? Was he doing
something that made him feel that way?
Speaker 4 (03:02):
It sounds like if you're not just serving the Lord,
not doing something as a problem, this is extreme.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
So I've never even heard of it.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Like, sometimes I like to ask, can we find somebody?
Nobody's gonna have this? Nobody's gonna have it, nobody's gonna
know someone.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Who has it?
Speaker 4 (03:23):
Now because they call it religious scrupulosity. Could you find
somebody who just has the scrupulosity? Is that the bigger umbrella?
But what would it be too, like the version of
ocity in which you're you're constantly made anxious or nervous
(03:45):
about maybe morality.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Not tied to faith. Oh yeah, maybe I was trying
to think, like well, and.
Speaker 5 (03:55):
It's constant worry too about like what your thoughts or
your behavior are showing you as being a specific type
of person.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
So for him, he may have had an unpure thought, right,
and he would think that I am betrayed, yes, God,
And that unpure thought could be I'm just I'm mad
at something.
Speaker 5 (04:16):
I mean, they the other symptoms. They said it could
be you're fearful of death, You're fearful of being possessed,
fearful of being punished.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
By gearful of being possessed, yes, fearful of.
Speaker 5 (04:26):
Being punished by God. That that you'll lose your impulse control.
And then you start to doubt what you really believe
or feel like are you just are you? Are you
just talking to talk? You know what I mean? Like
what you really believe maybe isn't in line, and then
that gets you into a spiral.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
I remember going through a peer where I wish I
lost my impulse control.
Speaker 5 (04:52):
For what what types of impulses?
Speaker 2 (04:54):
No, just see what it's like? No, no, no, no,
But I was just saying, just no barrier.
Speaker 5 (05:02):
I mean usually that doesn't end.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Well, no it doesn't, it doesn't. But I wanted to
see what that was like. Obviously I didn't follow up
on it.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Like it's impost It's like it's like cracking a wine
bottle over your head, Like it's impossible to not have
any barriers.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
You rely a lot on something Bert Kreischer told you.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
I rely on a lot of things that Burt Kreischer
told me, but specifically that that that one sticks out
because because it seems true, it seems so don't look
it up. It seems so easy to just smash a
bottle over your head, but you know it would hurt
so much you can't.
Speaker 5 (05:37):
Behavioral compulsions could include writing prayers to check that they're
done correctly. Excessive confession, repeatedly seeking reassurance, reassurance from religious
leaders and loved ones, repeating cleansing and purifying rituals.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Would we like but not not cleansing and purifying like
washing your hands, but like cleansing your soul.
Speaker 5 (06:00):
That's like excessive confession kind of right?
Speaker 1 (06:05):
But would I if somebody called them, were like, I
have this, I have to start confessing things to you,
would I be the right person?
Speaker 3 (06:13):
No?
Speaker 2 (06:13):
No, no, of course I'm not the right person.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
But what I'm saying is like I hear that, and
I go I would love that for somebody to just
sit and confess everything to me.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Or would it be like.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
So inane that you would go, you know, you did
nothing wrong here I have now. Granted they know, like
if they knew that, they wouldn't be doing it.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
But I do imagine if from a third party's perspective,
it would lean more towards.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
The latter, I would think.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
So.
Speaker 4 (06:38):
Scrupulosity can affect non religious people, but it is usually
related to a belief system. So there you go, often
tied to faith. Wow, I don't see any notable cases.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
Too.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Oh and then I want to mention, don't let me forget.
I want to mention the drug that he tried, because
I'd never heard of that either. He had to go
to Mexico to do it. Hi Elliot in the morning. Hello, Yeah, Hi,
who's that?
Speaker 3 (07:18):
My name is Logan. What's up? Hey?
Speaker 2 (07:19):
What's going on? Logan?
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Uh? You are talking about scrupulosity?
Speaker 6 (07:25):
Is what you call it?
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Scrupulosity?
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Yeah? I deal with this on a daily basis. I'm
a former drug addict. I was raised Christian, and on
a daily basis, I combat myself in my head on
whether I'm doing the right thing by my son, by
the people around me. And when I get that anxious feeling,
(07:51):
I get very dogmatic about it. I start to think
that it Satan's in the room or God's in the
room trying to punish me or pull me away from
a type of energy. I constantly go through this process
of not eating because I feel like I have to
get everything out to feel more connected to God.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Hey, so is this did this start? And follow me here?
And and by the way, if what I end up
saying is insulting, understand that I'm I'm I'm not intending
it to be that way.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
You're good.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Did this scrupulosity start after you got clean.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
Honestly, I'll say certain psychedelic drugs caused it earlier in life,
and I think that I became addicted to opiates due
to that feeling. Eventually went to a doctor and got
put on a medication for opiate withdrawal that is also
a synthetic opiate, and I was on that for about
(08:54):
ten years. I got off it in October and it's
been a horrific experience since. Yeah, mentally and physically. I
lost a lot of weight. I'm constantly battling within myself
whether I'm doing the right thing because I'm so used
(09:15):
to doing the wrong, wrong thing. But it's considered wrong
in a dogmatic sense.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Because I was going to ask, this is the part
I was going to ask that I don't want it
to be offensive, is do they tell you this is
the case of replacing one addiction with another, and I
and and there's sometimes that I don't I don't like
that expression, but it sounds like the you know, so
it was a drug addiction that could be physical, obviously
(09:42):
understand that, but that this one has kind of replaced
it of now now the addiction is is it's different
but it's just it's replacing addiction with addiction.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Does that make sense? And I don't mean for that
to be offensive.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
So so I wouldn't The word fits for sure, But
it it's not like a chemical dependency as much as
it is like a dependency on feeling like things are
about to be sabotaged, either by you or some outside force,
and if I don't do the right thing in the moment,
then I'm going to be sabotaged. Like for example, since
I got clean, I've been trying to maintain a schedule
(10:18):
with work, with my son. I'm also in school and
juggling all of these things at once. My schedule gets
messed up. In the moment that my schedule gets changed,
my anxiety flares up. And when my anxiety flares up,
that process starts to happen, and I start to wonder
(10:40):
if I'm doing right by God and if I need
to be punished because I changed my schedule. Wow, it's
very simple stuff that really I shouldn't feel like I
should punish myself about right or that God should punish
me for But because I'm so used to punishing myself
or feeling like I deserve punishment, You're right. It is
(11:00):
sort of an addictive personality trait where I'm so used
to feeling this way that I'm forcing myself into it,
but consteering. I'm not using drugs anymore. I'm just where
I would normally use drugs when that anxious feeling would
come up. Instead of using drugs, I'm trying to talk
to God about it, right, And sometimes God answers. Sometimes
(11:22):
the devil answers.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
That's a problem. That's a problem. All right, very good, Hey,
I appreciate it, Thank you, my friend.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Oh my god. Yeah, that sounds horrible. That sounds horrible.
When you were talking about Braiden Smith, it sounded horrible.
Yes it did.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
But I also know how the Braden Smith went in,
So you go, oh good, We're in a good space.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
Don't I don't know if it's over. Probably managing this
for Smith will be a constant.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Oh, I'm sure it will. I'm sure it will. Like
whatever I see. There's a lot of people on holding.
Oh yeah, what are the other stories? Oh they all
got it. How prevalent is this? I wanted to mention
the drug real quick.
Speaker 5 (12:05):
He saws from Mexico.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
He later started using a psychedelic called ibogain ibo gai
n e ibogain, which is not legal in the US,
but has shown some promise in treating mental health in
scientific studies. He traveled to Mexico to undergo treatment with
the substance. After the treatments in Mexico and his ongoing therapy,
(12:33):
says he's in a good place. He restructured his contract
and everything is back with the cults and he's like, listen,
I hope the season goes well. But he checked himself
in for forty eight days and was like, I'm not
getting I'm not getting close enough to where I need
to be. And that's when he did this ibogain stuff.
Hi Elliot the morning.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Hi is me? Yeah, Hi, who's this?
Speaker 5 (12:57):
Hi?
Speaker 3 (12:58):
Well, I'd rather not.
Speaker 6 (12:58):
Give my name, but my fun stuffers from speculosity. And
he's only seventeen.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Wait a minute, So at seventeen he is so, what's
the word that I'm looking for? Addicted to trying to
do right by God?
Speaker 6 (13:18):
Right right, we're Catholic And he probably started this, I
think probably at thirteen or fourteen, and it's just gotten
worse from there, and probably he was to kind of
go back in history a little bit. He actually was
diagnosed with OCD when he was nine. Right, it's kind
(13:39):
of funny you mentioned the hand washing as far as
like the cleansing thing. That's exactly what he did when
he was nine. He had to be put in a
special special in class because it interfered with his ability
to learn in the classroom. So he's definitely suffered with
OCD like things for all his life. And then it
took this turn to scrupulosity.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
How did it?
Speaker 7 (14:00):
So?
Speaker 1 (14:01):
I understand what you mean. So it starts young, he's
washing his hands compulsively, right, What like, were there steps
along the way that got to scrupulosity or was it
just like a hard right hand.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Turn and here we are?
Speaker 6 (14:16):
Well, I think, yeah, he was always very black and
white in his thinking and in his morality and stuff
like that, and then it just so I think it
was always there a little bit, and then it just
kind of I noticed like it got more ritualistic things
as time went on. So he would come in every
night and ask to do prayers with me. And that's
gotten to be a real bone of contention between us
(14:38):
because some you know, I'm Catholic, but we're not. We're
not like crazy Catholics, right, you know, and sometimes honestly.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
I don't want to pray right now, I understand.
Speaker 6 (14:48):
Yeah, And he comes in every night like clockwork at
ten to prey no matter what, and you have to.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Right like you don't want to, you don't want to.
I don't know what's saying no does, but I would
assume that you want to help and not heard.
Speaker 6 (15:02):
Right exactly. But he's he's actually been with a special
therapist who who specializes in scrupulosity for teens specifically. So
it's probably more common than we think, if if this
woman is actually specializing and helping teams with it. Right,
So she actually just told me to start pushing back
(15:22):
on that and pushing pushing on the limits and maybe
sometimes be like you know what, no tonight I am
you know, watching a show or doing something else. So yeah,
it's it's good.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Excuse me. We don't pray durn hockey games?
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Hey, can I can I answer this the the so
other than like wanting to do the prayer, like what
is what is something?
Speaker 2 (15:47):
What is something else? That kind of presents itself.
Speaker 6 (15:52):
Well, So lent, for example, we're in the middle of
lent right now, and you're supposed to give something up, right,
and let's people just think that's sort of a chocolate
fun thing to do, right, right.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Yeah, Yeah, for.
Speaker 6 (16:05):
Him, it's it's very serious and it just it takes
on a life of its own. So this year he
gave up sweets and that meant he wouldn't eat fruit either,
and we're like fruit, come on, and he's like, it's
it's the taste, right, So he'll find ways to sort
of to justify his severity. So I was like, fine,
I'll give.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
You the fruit.
Speaker 6 (16:25):
But then he said pasta was a sweet and we
were like he and his older brother and I were
just like, no, no, it's not there's nothing at all
sweet about pasta.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
The only time you get that is if like Jackie goes,
we're having spaghetti tonight, I'll go sweet, that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Other than that, no, it's not sweet. But there's sugars
in there. Yeah, okay, there's sugars in everything. But exactly
it was the Yeah, but I didn't like it. I
didn't like it. He can I can I ask you?
Can I ask a really rude question?
Speaker 3 (17:00):
Sure?
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Were you ever?
Speaker 1 (17:02):
And I mean this seriously, but if it was like
you said, like we were Catholic, but we weren't like
super Catholic.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Were you ever?
Speaker 1 (17:09):
Were you ever resentful when it first started happening of like,
oh my god, why did I And I don't mean
this in a bad way, please, but like resentful of
like this one thing that I thought would be so
helpful for the family or for what for our belief system,
turned out to be harmful for my son.
Speaker 6 (17:29):
I mean, sure, yeah, it definitely crossed my mind. But
then you know, now I've realized, of course, that that
this is his mental issues, not the church and not
you know. I mean it was actually a priest who
called him out on it, because he went to confession
and he came out kind of dismayed, I guess, and
the priest was like, this is scrupulosity, This isn't a
(17:50):
real thing, and you need to look into that.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
So so yeah, I mean that's it.
Speaker 6 (17:55):
Yeah, sure, at first I was resentful, but now I
realized it has nothing.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
To do at the church really, and is there is
I'm sorry, go ahead, go ahead.
Speaker 6 (18:06):
Honestly, it kind of has had a good side in
the sense that he is like physically incapable of lying
me by disobeying of doing basically anything wrong. So in
some ways it sort of has its blesses.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Do you ever, I'm going to ask a very selfish question,
do you ever listen to the show with him around?
Speaker 3 (18:29):
Oh?
Speaker 6 (18:29):
Yeah, every morning? It's luckily he's a school right now.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
But he doesn't. He doesn't, He doesn't hate the show.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
I just feel like some of the things that maybe
Diane and Tyler and say that he would not, he would.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Not like the show.
Speaker 6 (18:44):
No, he doesn't say anything about it. I mean, I
think he's he's realistic as a matter of fact. The uh,
the really weird thing about him is that he's a
metal head. He's like into hardcore of heavy metal.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Wow, you know what? And is there is there a
light like do they tell you like he's managed?
Speaker 6 (19:01):
Yeah, he's getting he's getting better, but like you know,
it's always uh kind of checks and balances with him, right,
like you know, okay, you can get something up for lent,
but only one thing, right and then you know, because
it kind of last year, the therapist was telling me
it's snowballed and I didn't know this this only he
only talks to her really about some of these things.
(19:22):
But you know, first he gave up meat, and then
it was I have to do two rosaries a day,
and then it was they have to be in Latin.
It kept going, yeah, and that's where it sort of
crosses the line and becomes scrupulosity.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
Right.
Speaker 6 (19:38):
It's when you're putting these kind of strange limits on yourself.
It's not good enough unless unless I do it this way,
or unless I do you know, staying very slowly, or
whatever whatever it is for.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Him at the moment. I'm very glad that you called.
I appreciate it. Thank you, ma'am.
Speaker 6 (19:55):
Thanks.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Hey, you got to talk to you later. Wow, you'd
have to move the plate from in front of you.
She didn't say cured me to cured me? What's in there?
There ain't no sugars in there. No for when he
gave up me? Oh yeah, well okay, why ain't doing
that either? I think it's very nuch.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
I'd be the worst at scrupulosity. Why, yeah, I'm giving
up nothing. I'm giving up scrupulosity. That's the only thing
I can give up.
Speaker 4 (20:19):
But like we read, it does tend to have a
religious affiliation. But I do think your question is a
natural one to ask her if she ever blamed herself,
and some people may do so in the face of facts,
sure and professional assistance or help. But I feel like,
and she said, the OCD signs were there prior to
(20:41):
it taking its hold on religion. It's it's going to
latch onto something, right, So I don't feel like if
anyone's listening, please listen to the person who's dealing with
it and managing it. You cannot blame aim yourself.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Oh no, no, no, And I was I wasn't trying
to intimate that.
Speaker 4 (21:04):
No, but I think it's it would be very natural
for people to to go down that road put that
on themselves.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
Sure, Hi, Elliott the morning.
Speaker 8 (21:14):
Hey, Hey, so I have a family member who has
religious group of reulocity I can't believe.
Speaker 9 (21:29):
Also similar to the last caller Catholic family, and he
definitely had minor OCD his whole life, like you know,
checking the coffee pot was unplugged five times before leaving
the house and you know, God only knows the rituals
before they left on vacation and everything like that.
Speaker 8 (21:50):
And as he aged, it turned into this religious grupulosity
so much so that for him it was going to confession.
He went to the same priest all the time, and
the guy agreed to meet with him once a once
a week, but he would have gone every day if
he was allowed. And finally the priest is like, no, no,
(22:13):
we got to cut this back to once a month,
and so they changed it to once a month. But
when he'd be saying prayers with the family, like before
a meal or something, the whole family would pray it together,
and then I think in his mind, if he didn't,
like if he got distracted during the prayer, he'd have
to stop and start all over again, right, you know,
(22:33):
and never just had to wait for him to finish.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Man how long, And like you said, so like confession
had to be. It was just so much, we just
had to push it back to once a month.
Speaker 8 (22:48):
Yeah, because I think the priest realized this is not healthy, right,
I mean, it would be things, you know, because he
wasn't at the head person by any stretch of the means.
But I think if he thought, you know, impure thoughts
or God only knows what, but he thought he had
to confess everything, or if he wasn't, I don't know.
If he didn't make it to daily mass, he'd have
(23:08):
to go confess that.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Or whatever it was, right, Yeah, no, where That's what
I was saying earlier.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
I would probably hear these things because in my head,
I'm like, sweet confession, Like I look at that as
like gossip hower.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
But the but but it would probably be so to
the rest of us. It would be so.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
Nothing that you'd be like, you don't. You don't have
to confess to this. There's no confession here. You missed,
you missed prayer that day. It's all right, nothing happened
now to him. I understand it's a massively I understand that.
But yeah, I would I should not get into that role.
Speaker 8 (23:44):
I'm pretty sure you don't have it.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Elliott's no, no, I can promise you I don't. I don't.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
All right, very good, thank you from Instagram. And I'm
assuming it could be any religion. I mean, it just
so happens to the couple of people we've heard from
have been Catholic, but it could be any religion.
Speaker 4 (23:59):
My dad miss birthdays, holidays, graduations, retirements, et cetera. Because
he had to pray or go to Mass or visit nuns.
One time, my niece was picking him up from the
airport and her car broke down, and he called someone
else to pick him up so he'd go to church
and left her on the side of the road with
the car.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Wow. I did not know this was a condition. I
just thought he was a dick. Wow.
Speaker 4 (24:20):
It sounds like textbook scrupulosity. One to two percent of
the population in their lifetime will experience some sort of
about with religious scrupulosity.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
And you get out of it, probably a lot of therapy.
Speaker 4 (24:37):
It's not ever everyone the right they listed, but it's
only one or two percent. That's a lot two percent
of the population.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
They all listened to this show. I can talk to
people forever. I'm very fascinated by it.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
I was frightened by how high that number was. So
if there were if there are five million people in
d C, how many is that?
Speaker 3 (25:03):
Well?
Speaker 2 (25:03):
One person? Five? All right, just one more caller and
we've hit them all. Oh wait, can I go to
line two? Hi Elliott the morning?
Speaker 3 (25:17):
Hello?
Speaker 2 (25:18):
Yeah, Hi, who's this?
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Hi?
Speaker 7 (25:20):
This is Tina. I have the O C D and
religious scrupulicity you're talking about in this conversation is life changing.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
So you you have it, but are you you're diagnosed
with it? Like you you see somebody for it.
Speaker 7 (25:36):
I have been diagnosed with OCD my whole life. I
was raised Catholic in a private Catholic school. My family
wasn't super religious either, but I definitely was had it,
you know, drilled into my head from growing up Catholic
in a Catholic school. So uh, I think that's where
the OCD derived from. But I mean, I I really
(25:57):
truly believe, you know, things I do will result in
other things happening.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Did you have any did you turn to to?
Speaker 1 (26:09):
And I'm only asking because of the guy that we
talked to earlier, but did you ever turn to like
drugs or anything like that.
Speaker 3 (26:15):
No?
Speaker 7 (26:16):
Never, And in fact, I was too afraid I would
get you know, punished for it. That's why I was
so good at not doing anything like that. And I'm
a perfectly normal person. I run two businesses. You would
never know it on the outside, but in that it's
a constant struggle in my head of if I do this,
this might happen, Like I don't.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Know, I don't know where you fall in the severity.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
But like the person who sent the note about like
there's always out visiting nuns and things like that, and
got home and like ditch somebody who broke down a
family member on the side of the road and got
another right because they had to go to church.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Do you hear that and go like, that's severe.
Speaker 7 (26:58):
I think that's severe, but I under stand it. I mean,
I'm not that severe at all, but it's I can
understand the direct correlation. I think that things. If you know,
I'll get punished if I do this, or I said
I wasn't gonna like the woman talking about lent, and
you try to give something up, and then if you
do it, you're like, oh, no, something's gonna happen if
(27:18):
I do this, or someone might die if I do this.
It's you know, and I know it's very crazy sounding,
like I'm very aware, just like with the OCD things, Uh,
very aware that it's not doesn't make sense.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
You know.
Speaker 7 (27:34):
My husband is always like, that's crazy.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
You know, that's not real.
Speaker 7 (27:38):
That's not but it's very real in your head that
you believe something you do is going to cause something
else to happen.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
What did you do? What did you give up for
lent this year?
Speaker 4 (27:51):
Vaping? Other than your husband? What else are you finding
best helps you manage it?
Speaker 7 (28:05):
Honestly, you know, it's hard to manage. It's not really
it's something you just have to It's very relatable to OCD,
where you have to be able to move past it.
Speaker 6 (28:18):
You can't.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
You know.
Speaker 7 (28:19):
With OCD, the whole thing is you do something to
make something else better. You know, Like I'm not really
a physical OCD person, Like I don't wash my hands
one hundred times a day, but people, you know, get
stressed out about something, so if they wash their hands
over and over and over, it'll make it pass, right,
And it's it's about finding a way to let it
pass without having to get down on your knees and
(28:40):
pray or sa I'm sorry a hundred times, or it's
about finding the way the strength to move past it.
And a lot of times that's the medication, I think,
because you know, an anxiety or something like that.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
That's what the guy from the Colts did, and he
ended up going to Mexico to get that Go I
Go Bear or whatever it was like, he ended up
going to do that.
Speaker 7 (29:02):
Yeah, I mean, I I've you know, I think a
standard you know, anxiety medication or something like that might
might even help. But it's I think that the o
c D and the religious go hand in hand.
Speaker 6 (29:15):
Absolutely.
Speaker 7 (29:17):
I think sometimes even the religious might cause the o
c D subconsciously because you have this fear of punishment
for something.
Speaker 6 (29:28):
You do this, you have to do this.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
I'll ask you the same thing that I asked that
that that lady about her her son. Is you like
when you hear Diane and Tyler there's there, you're totally
fine with the show?
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Or do you pray for us?
Speaker 5 (29:46):
No?
Speaker 7 (29:46):
I I love your show. We watch it every day
and or listen to it every day. I love it
and the hand in Tyler. But yeah, I mean there
are times where you're like, oh, I'm sorry he said that. Sorry, sorry,
you know, and it's like in your head, you know,
I'm not go to turn it off and not listen
to it. But you can definitely when other people say
or do things.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
You're like, oh, you know, yeah, I do that.
Speaker 4 (30:08):
I do that.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Sometimes Diana'll start popping something off. All right, all right,
very good, very good. I appreciate it.
Speaker 7 (30:15):
Thank you man, thank you, thank you. Bye.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
That's fascinating.
Speaker 4 (30:18):
Can Nielsen screen for this illegally allowed to ask that question?
Speaker 2 (30:25):
These people love us, This is great.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
I'm number one with left handed Screwuloz.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Yeah with the dogs
Braiden Smith plays for the Indianapolis Colts.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
I don't know that people will know his name.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
He's not he's not the most famous member of the
Indianapolis Colts. He is an offensive tackle, so he's an
offensive lineman with the Indianapolis Colts.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
All right.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
He missed the final five games of the year last year,
and when he took the time, he just said it
was a personal matter. So like they didn't say, you know, like, oh,
he's out with an elbow injury or whatever. It's just
a personal matter. So he finally spoke out yesterday about
(00:43):
what was going on and what his personal matter was.
Smith said, his name is Braiden Smith. Braiden Smith said
he has a type of OCD that prompted him to
spend forty eight days in a treatment facility and then
turned to the use of a psychedelic drug, which he
(01:06):
believes has now saved him. He said, I was physically present,
but I was nowhere to be found.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
I did not care about playing football.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
I did not care about hanging out with my family,
with my wife, with my newborn son. You're ready for
this though, he's twenty nine years old, Okay. He was
eventually diagnosed with a condition known as religious scrupulosity sc
(01:40):
r U p U l O s I t Y scrupulosity.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Anybody ever heard of that?
Speaker 3 (01:49):
No?
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Scrupulosity, scrupulosity, scrupulosity?
Speaker 4 (01:55):
What is it?
Speaker 2 (01:56):
A religious it's an OCD NO is religious scrupulosity.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
It differs from the healthy practice of religion in that
it's driven by anxiety over engaging in actions that might
offend God or be seen as blasphemous. This creates an
obsessive behavior, including constant prayer and repeated repentance, that takes
(02:27):
over your day to day life.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Wow, So does that just mean that you're your your
your overcome in like I'm not.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
I'm not being as as righteous or virtuous. I don't
know what the right word there would be.
Speaker 5 (02:46):
The big worry is that you're offending or angering God.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
But what if you're not doing anything?
Speaker 5 (02:52):
Yeah, but in your head you can't. You can't like
wrestle with you, you wrestle with that like you can't.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
But was he was he doing something? Was he doing
something that made him feel that way?
Speaker 4 (03:02):
It sounds like if you're not just serving the Lord,
not doing something as a problem, this is extreme.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
So I've never even heard of it.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Like, sometimes I like to ask, can we find somebody?
Nobody's gonna have this? Nobody's gonna have it, nobody's gonna
know someone.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Who has it?
Speaker 4 (03:23):
Now because they call it religious scrupulosity. Could you find
somebody who just has the scrupulosity? Is that the bigger umbrella?
But what would it be too, like the version of
ocity in which you're you're constantly made anxious or nervous
(03:45):
about maybe morality.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Not tied to faith. Oh yeah, maybe I was trying
to think, like well, and.
Speaker 5 (03:55):
It's constant worry too about like what your thoughts or
your behavior are showing you as being a specific type
of person.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
So for him, he may have had an unpure thought, right,
and he would think that I am betrayed, yes, God,
And that unpure thought could be I'm just I'm mad
at something.
Speaker 5 (04:16):
I mean, they the other symptoms. They said it could
be you're fearful of death, You're fearful of being possessed,
fearful of being punished.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
By gearful of being possessed, yes, fearful of.
Speaker 5 (04:26):
Being punished by God. That that you'll lose your impulse control.
And then you start to doubt what you really believe
or feel like are you just are you? Are you
just talking to talk? You know what I mean? Like
what you really believe maybe isn't in line, and then
that gets you into a spiral.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
I remember going through a peer where I wish I
lost my impulse control.
Speaker 5 (04:52):
For what what types of impulses?
Speaker 2 (04:54):
No, just see what it's like? No, no, no, no,
But I was just saying, just no barrier.
Speaker 5 (05:02):
I mean usually that doesn't end.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Well, no it doesn't, it doesn't. But I wanted to
see what that was like. Obviously I didn't follow up
on it.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Like it's impost It's like it's like cracking a wine
bottle over your head, Like it's impossible to not have
any barriers.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
You rely a lot on something Bert Kreischer told you.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
I rely on a lot of things that Burt Kreischer
told me, but specifically that that that one sticks out
because because it seems true, it seems so don't look
it up. It seems so easy to just smash a
bottle over your head, but you know it would hurt
so much you can't.
Speaker 5 (05:37):
Behavioral compulsions could include writing prayers to check that they're
done correctly. Excessive confession, repeatedly seeking reassurance, reassurance from religious
leaders and loved ones, repeating cleansing and purifying rituals.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Would we like but not not cleansing and purifying like
washing your hands, but like cleansing your soul.
Speaker 5 (06:00):
That's like excessive confession kind of right?
Speaker 1 (06:05):
But would I if somebody called them, were like, I
have this, I have to start confessing things to you,
would I be the right person?
Speaker 3 (06:13):
No?
Speaker 2 (06:13):
No, no, of course I'm not the right person.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
But what I'm saying is like I hear that, and
I go I would love that for somebody to just
sit and confess everything to me.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Or would it be like.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
So inane that you would go, you know, you did
nothing wrong here I have now. Granted they know, like
if they knew that, they wouldn't be doing it.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
But I do imagine if from a third party's perspective,
it would lean more towards.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
The latter, I would think.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
So.
Speaker 4 (06:38):
Scrupulosity can affect non religious people, but it is usually
related to a belief system. So there you go, often
tied to faith. Wow, I don't see any notable cases.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
Too.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Oh and then I want to mention, don't let me forget.
I want to mention the drug that he tried, because
I'd never heard of that either. He had to go
to Mexico to do it. Hi Elliot in the morning. Hello, Yeah, Hi,
who's that?
Speaker 3 (07:18):
My name is Logan. What's up? Hey?
Speaker 2 (07:19):
What's going on? Logan?
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Uh? You are talking about scrupulosity?
Speaker 6 (07:25):
Is what you call it?
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Scrupulosity?
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Yeah? I deal with this on a daily basis. I'm
a former drug addict. I was raised Christian, and on
a daily basis, I combat myself in my head on
whether I'm doing the right thing by my son, by
the people around me. And when I get that anxious feeling,
(07:51):
I get very dogmatic about it. I start to think
that it Satan's in the room or God's in the
room trying to punish me or pull me away from
a type of energy. I constantly go through this process
of not eating because I feel like I have to
get everything out to feel more connected to God.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Hey, so is this did this start? And follow me here?
And and by the way, if what I end up
saying is insulting, understand that I'm I'm I'm not intending
it to be that way.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
You're good.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Did this scrupulosity start after you got clean.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
Honestly, I'll say certain psychedelic drugs caused it earlier in life,
and I think that I became addicted to opiates due
to that feeling. Eventually went to a doctor and got
put on a medication for opiate withdrawal that is also
a synthetic opiate, and I was on that for about
(08:54):
ten years. I got off it in October and it's
been a horrific experience since. Yeah, mentally and physically. I
lost a lot of weight. I'm constantly battling within myself
whether I'm doing the right thing because I'm so used
(09:15):
to doing the wrong, wrong thing. But it's considered wrong
in a dogmatic sense.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Because I was going to ask, this is the part
I was going to ask that I don't want it
to be offensive, is do they tell you this is
the case of replacing one addiction with another, and I
and and there's sometimes that I don't I don't like
that expression, but it sounds like the you know, so
it was a drug addiction that could be physical, obviously
(09:42):
understand that, but that this one has kind of replaced
it of now now the addiction is is it's different
but it's just it's replacing addiction with addiction.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Does that make sense? And I don't mean for that
to be offensive.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
So so I wouldn't The word fits for sure, But
it it's not like a chemical dependency as much as
it is like a dependency on feeling like things are
about to be sabotaged, either by you or some outside force,
and if I don't do the right thing in the moment,
then I'm going to be sabotaged. Like for example, since
I got clean, I've been trying to maintain a schedule
(10:18):
with work, with my son. I'm also in school and
juggling all of these things at once. My schedule gets
messed up. In the moment that my schedule gets changed,
my anxiety flares up. And when my anxiety flares up,
that process starts to happen, and I start to wonder
(10:40):
if I'm doing right by God and if I need
to be punished because I changed my schedule. Wow, it's
very simple stuff that really I shouldn't feel like I
should punish myself about right or that God should punish
me for But because I'm so used to punishing myself
or feeling like I deserve punishment, You're right. It is
(11:00):
sort of an addictive personality trait where I'm so used
to feeling this way that I'm forcing myself into it,
but consteering. I'm not using drugs anymore. I'm just where
I would normally use drugs when that anxious feeling would
come up. Instead of using drugs, I'm trying to talk
to God about it, right, And sometimes God answers. Sometimes
(11:22):
the devil answers.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
That's a problem. That's a problem. All right, very good, Hey,
I appreciate it, Thank you, my friend.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Oh my god. Yeah, that sounds horrible. That sounds horrible.
When you were talking about Braiden Smith, it sounded horrible.
Yes it did.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
But I also know how the Braden Smith went in,
So you go, oh good, We're in a good space.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
Don't I don't know if it's over. Probably managing this
for Smith will be a constant.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Oh, I'm sure it will. I'm sure it will. Like
whatever I see. There's a lot of people on holding.
Oh yeah, what are the other stories? Oh they all
got it. How prevalent is this? I wanted to mention
the drug real quick.
Speaker 5 (12:05):
He saws from Mexico.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
He later started using a psychedelic called ibogain ibo gai
n e ibogain, which is not legal in the US,
but has shown some promise in treating mental health in
scientific studies. He traveled to Mexico to undergo treatment with
the substance. After the treatments in Mexico and his ongoing therapy,
(12:33):
says he's in a good place. He restructured his contract
and everything is back with the cults and he's like, listen,
I hope the season goes well. But he checked himself
in for forty eight days and was like, I'm not
getting I'm not getting close enough to where I need
to be. And that's when he did this ibogain stuff.
Hi Elliot the morning.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Hi is me? Yeah, Hi, who's this?
Speaker 5 (12:57):
Hi?
Speaker 3 (12:58):
Well, I'd rather not.
Speaker 6 (12:58):
Give my name, but my fun stuffers from speculosity. And
he's only seventeen.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Wait a minute, So at seventeen he is so, what's
the word that I'm looking for? Addicted to trying to
do right by God?
Speaker 6 (13:18):
Right right, we're Catholic And he probably started this, I
think probably at thirteen or fourteen, and it's just gotten
worse from there, and probably he was to kind of
go back in history a little bit. He actually was
diagnosed with OCD when he was nine. Right, it's kind
(13:39):
of funny you mentioned the hand washing as far as
like the cleansing thing. That's exactly what he did when
he was nine. He had to be put in a
special special in class because it interfered with his ability
to learn in the classroom. So he's definitely suffered with
OCD like things for all his life. And then it
took this turn to scrupulosity.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
How did it?
Speaker 7 (14:00):
So?
Speaker 1 (14:01):
I understand what you mean. So it starts young, he's
washing his hands compulsively, right, What like, were there steps
along the way that got to scrupulosity or was it
just like a hard right hand.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Turn and here we are?
Speaker 6 (14:16):
Well, I think, yeah, he was always very black and
white in his thinking and in his morality and stuff
like that, and then it just so I think it
was always there a little bit, and then it just
kind of I noticed like it got more ritualistic things
as time went on. So he would come in every
night and ask to do prayers with me. And that's
gotten to be a real bone of contention between us
(14:38):
because some you know, I'm Catholic, but we're not. We're
not like crazy Catholics, right, you know, and sometimes honestly.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
I don't want to pray right now, I understand.
Speaker 6 (14:48):
Yeah, And he comes in every night like clockwork at
ten to prey no matter what, and you have to.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Right like you don't want to, you don't want to.
I don't know what's saying no does, but I would
assume that you want to help and not heard.
Speaker 6 (15:02):
Right exactly. But he's he's actually been with a special
therapist who who specializes in scrupulosity for teens specifically. So
it's probably more common than we think, if if this
woman is actually specializing and helping teams with it. Right,
So she actually just told me to start pushing back
(15:22):
on that and pushing pushing on the limits and maybe
sometimes be like you know what, no tonight I am
you know, watching a show or doing something else. So yeah,
it's it's good.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Excuse me. We don't pray durn hockey games?
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Hey, can I can I answer this the the so
other than like wanting to do the prayer, like what
is what is something?
Speaker 2 (15:47):
What is something else? That kind of presents itself.
Speaker 6 (15:52):
Well, So lent, for example, we're in the middle of
lent right now, and you're supposed to give something up, right,
and let's people just think that's sort of a chocolate
fun thing to do, right, right.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Yeah, Yeah, for.
Speaker 6 (16:05):
Him, it's it's very serious and it just it takes
on a life of its own. So this year he
gave up sweets and that meant he wouldn't eat fruit either,
and we're like fruit, come on, and he's like, it's
it's the taste, right, So he'll find ways to sort
of to justify his severity. So I was like, fine,
I'll give.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
You the fruit.
Speaker 6 (16:25):
But then he said pasta was a sweet and we
were like he and his older brother and I were
just like, no, no, it's not there's nothing at all
sweet about pasta.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
The only time you get that is if like Jackie goes,
we're having spaghetti tonight, I'll go sweet, that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Other than that, no, it's not sweet. But there's sugars
in there. Yeah, okay, there's sugars in everything. But exactly
it was the Yeah, but I didn't like it. I
didn't like it. He can I can I ask you?
Can I ask a really rude question?
Speaker 3 (17:00):
Sure?
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Were you ever?
Speaker 1 (17:02):
And I mean this seriously, but if it was like
you said, like we were Catholic, but we weren't like
super Catholic.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Were you ever?
Speaker 1 (17:09):
Were you ever resentful when it first started happening of like,
oh my god, why did I And I don't mean
this in a bad way, please, but like resentful of
like this one thing that I thought would be so
helpful for the family or for what for our belief system,
turned out to be harmful for my son.
Speaker 6 (17:29):
I mean, sure, yeah, it definitely crossed my mind. But
then you know, now I've realized, of course, that that
this is his mental issues, not the church and not
you know. I mean it was actually a priest who
called him out on it, because he went to confession
and he came out kind of dismayed, I guess, and
the priest was like, this is scrupulosity, This isn't a
(17:50):
real thing, and you need to look into that.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
So so yeah, I mean that's it.
Speaker 6 (17:55):
Yeah, sure, at first I was resentful, but now I
realized it has nothing.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
To do at the church really, and is there is
I'm sorry, go ahead, go ahead.
Speaker 6 (18:06):
Honestly, it kind of has had a good side in
the sense that he is like physically incapable of lying
me by disobeying of doing basically anything wrong. So in
some ways it sort of has its blesses.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Do you ever, I'm going to ask a very selfish question,
do you ever listen to the show with him around?
Speaker 3 (18:29):
Oh?
Speaker 6 (18:29):
Yeah, every morning? It's luckily he's a school right now.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
But he doesn't. He doesn't, He doesn't hate the show.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
I just feel like some of the things that maybe
Diane and Tyler and say that he would not, he would.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Not like the show.
Speaker 6 (18:44):
No, he doesn't say anything about it. I mean, I
think he's he's realistic as a matter of fact. The uh,
the really weird thing about him is that he's a
metal head. He's like into hardcore of heavy metal.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Wow, you know what? And is there is there a
light like do they tell you like he's managed?
Speaker 6 (19:01):
Yeah, he's getting he's getting better, but like you know,
it's always uh kind of checks and balances with him, right,
like you know, okay, you can get something up for lent,
but only one thing, right and then you know, because
it kind of last year, the therapist was telling me
it's snowballed and I didn't know this this only he
only talks to her really about some of these things.
(19:22):
But you know, first he gave up meat, and then
it was I have to do two rosaries a day,
and then it was they have to be in Latin.
It kept going, yeah, and that's where it sort of
crosses the line and becomes scrupulosity.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
Right.
Speaker 6 (19:38):
It's when you're putting these kind of strange limits on yourself.
It's not good enough unless unless I do it this way,
or unless I do you know, staying very slowly, or
whatever whatever it is for.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Him at the moment. I'm very glad that you called.
I appreciate it. Thank you, ma'am.
Speaker 6 (19:55):
Thanks.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Hey, you got to talk to you later. Wow, you'd
have to move the plate from in front of you.
She didn't say cured me to cured me? What's in there?
There ain't no sugars in there. No for when he
gave up me? Oh yeah, well okay, why ain't doing
that either? I think it's very nuch.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
I'd be the worst at scrupulosity. Why, yeah, I'm giving
up nothing. I'm giving up scrupulosity. That's the only thing
I can give up.
Speaker 4 (20:19):
But like we read, it does tend to have a
religious affiliation. But I do think your question is a
natural one to ask her if she ever blamed herself,
and some people may do so in the face of facts,
sure and professional assistance or help. But I feel like,
and she said, the OCD signs were there prior to
(20:41):
it taking its hold on religion. It's it's going to
latch onto something, right, So I don't feel like if
anyone's listening, please listen to the person who's dealing with
it and managing it. You cannot blame aim yourself.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Oh no, no, no, And I was I wasn't trying
to intimate that.
Speaker 4 (21:04):
No, but I think it's it would be very natural
for people to to go down that road put that
on themselves.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
Sure, Hi, Elliott the morning.
Speaker 8 (21:14):
Hey, Hey, so I have a family member who has
religious group of reulocity I can't believe.
Speaker 9 (21:29):
Also similar to the last caller Catholic family, and he
definitely had minor OCD his whole life, like you know,
checking the coffee pot was unplugged five times before leaving
the house and you know, God only knows the rituals
before they left on vacation and everything like that.
Speaker 8 (21:50):
And as he aged, it turned into this religious grupulosity
so much so that for him it was going to confession.
He went to the same priest all the time, and
the guy agreed to meet with him once a once
a week, but he would have gone every day if
he was allowed. And finally the priest is like, no, no,
(22:13):
we got to cut this back to once a month,
and so they changed it to once a month. But
when he'd be saying prayers with the family, like before
a meal or something, the whole family would pray it together,
and then I think in his mind, if he didn't,
like if he got distracted during the prayer, he'd have
to stop and start all over again, right, you know,
(22:33):
and never just had to wait for him to finish.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Man how long, And like you said, so like confession
had to be. It was just so much, we just
had to push it back to once a month.
Speaker 8 (22:48):
Yeah, because I think the priest realized this is not healthy, right,
I mean, it would be things, you know, because he
wasn't at the head person by any stretch of the means.
But I think if he thought, you know, impure thoughts
or God only knows what, but he thought he had
to confess everything, or if he wasn't, I don't know.
If he didn't make it to daily mass, he'd have
(23:08):
to go confess that.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Or whatever it was, right, Yeah, no, where That's what
I was saying earlier.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
I would probably hear these things because in my head,
I'm like, sweet confession, Like I look at that as
like gossip hower.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
But the but but it would probably be so to
the rest of us. It would be so.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
Nothing that you'd be like, you don't. You don't have
to confess to this. There's no confession here. You missed,
you missed prayer that day. It's all right, nothing happened
now to him. I understand it's a massively I understand that.
But yeah, I would I should not get into that role.
Speaker 8 (23:44):
I'm pretty sure you don't have it.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Elliott's no, no, I can promise you I don't. I don't.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
All right, very good, thank you from Instagram. And I'm
assuming it could be any religion. I mean, it just
so happens to the couple of people we've heard from
have been Catholic, but it could be any religion.
Speaker 4 (23:59):
My dad miss birthdays, holidays, graduations, retirements, et cetera. Because
he had to pray or go to Mass or visit nuns.
One time, my niece was picking him up from the
airport and her car broke down, and he called someone
else to pick him up so he'd go to church
and left her on the side of the road with
the car.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Wow. I did not know this was a condition. I
just thought he was a dick. Wow.
Speaker 4 (24:20):
It sounds like textbook scrupulosity. One to two percent of
the population in their lifetime will experience some sort of
about with religious scrupulosity.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
And you get out of it, probably a lot of therapy.
Speaker 4 (24:37):
It's not ever everyone the right they listed, but it's
only one or two percent. That's a lot two percent
of the population.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
They all listened to this show. I can talk to
people forever. I'm very fascinated by it.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
I was frightened by how high that number was. So
if there were if there are five million people in
d C, how many is that?
Speaker 3 (25:03):
Well?
Speaker 2 (25:03):
One person? Five? All right, just one more caller and
we've hit them all. Oh wait, can I go to
line two? Hi Elliott the morning?
Speaker 3 (25:17):
Hello?
Speaker 2 (25:18):
Yeah, Hi, who's this?
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Hi?
Speaker 7 (25:20):
This is Tina. I have the O C D and
religious scrupulicity you're talking about in this conversation is life changing.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
So you you have it, but are you you're diagnosed
with it? Like you you see somebody for it.
Speaker 7 (25:36):
I have been diagnosed with OCD my whole life. I
was raised Catholic in a private Catholic school. My family
wasn't super religious either, but I definitely was had it,
you know, drilled into my head from growing up Catholic
in a Catholic school. So uh, I think that's where
the OCD derived from. But I mean, I I really
(25:57):
truly believe, you know, things I do will result in
other things happening.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Did you have any did you turn to to?
Speaker 1 (26:09):
And I'm only asking because of the guy that we
talked to earlier, but did you ever turn to like
drugs or anything like that.
Speaker 3 (26:15):
No?
Speaker 7 (26:16):
Never, And in fact, I was too afraid I would
get you know, punished for it. That's why I was
so good at not doing anything like that. And I'm
a perfectly normal person. I run two businesses. You would
never know it on the outside, but in that it's
a constant struggle in my head of if I do this,
this might happen, Like I don't.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Know, I don't know where you fall in the severity.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
But like the person who sent the note about like
there's always out visiting nuns and things like that, and
got home and like ditch somebody who broke down a
family member on the side of the road and got
another right because they had to go to church.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Do you hear that and go like, that's severe.
Speaker 7 (26:58):
I think that's severe, but I under stand it. I mean,
I'm not that severe at all, but it's I can
understand the direct correlation. I think that things. If you know,
I'll get punished if I do this, or I said
I wasn't gonna like the woman talking about lent, and
you try to give something up, and then if you
do it, you're like, oh, no, something's gonna happen if
(27:18):
I do this, or someone might die if I do this.
It's you know, and I know it's very crazy sounding,
like I'm very aware, just like with the OCD things, Uh,
very aware that it's not doesn't make sense.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
You know.
Speaker 7 (27:34):
My husband is always like, that's crazy.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
You know, that's not real.
Speaker 7 (27:38):
That's not but it's very real in your head that
you believe something you do is going to cause something
else to happen.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
What did you do? What did you give up for
lent this year?
Speaker 4 (27:51):
Vaping? Other than your husband? What else are you finding
best helps you manage it?
Speaker 7 (28:05):
Honestly, you know, it's hard to manage. It's not really
it's something you just have to It's very relatable to OCD,
where you have to be able to move past it.
Speaker 6 (28:18):
You can't.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
You know.
Speaker 7 (28:19):
With OCD, the whole thing is you do something to
make something else better. You know, Like I'm not really
a physical OCD person, Like I don't wash my hands
one hundred times a day, but people, you know, get
stressed out about something, so if they wash their hands
over and over and over, it'll make it pass, right,
And it's it's about finding a way to let it
pass without having to get down on your knees and
(28:40):
pray or sa I'm sorry a hundred times, or it's
about finding the way the strength to move past it.
And a lot of times that's the medication, I think,
because you know, an anxiety or something like that.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
That's what the guy from the Colts did, and he
ended up going to Mexico to get that Go I
Go Bear or whatever it was like, he ended up
going to do that.
Speaker 7 (29:02):
Yeah, I mean, I I've you know, I think a
standard you know, anxiety medication or something like that might
might even help. But it's I think that the o
c D and the religious go hand in hand.
Speaker 6 (29:15):
Absolutely.
Speaker 7 (29:17):
I think sometimes even the religious might cause the o
c D subconsciously because you have this fear of punishment
for something.
Speaker 6 (29:28):
You do this, you have to do this.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
I'll ask you the same thing that I asked that
that that lady about her her son. Is you like
when you hear Diane and Tyler there's there, you're totally
fine with the show?
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Or do you pray for us?
Speaker 5 (29:46):
No?
Speaker 7 (29:46):
I I love your show. We watch it every day
and or listen to it every day. I love it
and the hand in Tyler. But yeah, I mean there
are times where you're like, oh, I'm sorry he said that. Sorry, sorry,
you know, and it's like in your head, you know,
I'm not go to turn it off and not listen
to it. But you can definitely when other people say
or do things.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
You're like, oh, you know, yeah, I do that.
Speaker 4 (30:08):
I do that.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Sometimes Diana'll start popping something off. All right, all right,
very good, very good. I appreciate it.
Speaker 7 (30:15):
Thank you man, thank you, thank you. Bye.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
That's fascinating.
Speaker 4 (30:18):
Can Nielsen screen for this illegally allowed to ask that question?
Speaker 2 (30:25):
These people love us, This is great.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
I'm number one with left handed Screwuloz.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Yeah with the dogs
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