Full Show Podcast: 09 April 2025

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talk zed B.
Follow this and our wide range of podcast now on iHeartRadio.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hellout you great, you said listen. Welcome to Matt and
Tyler Afternoons Full Show, Pod number one oh five for Wednesday,
the ninth of April twenty twenty five. A warning. A
start of the show, we say we're going to talk
about lip filler and botox gone wrong. We don't get
round to it. But the other conversation was so good,
especially later in the show. Some heartbreaking stories about fraud.

Speaker 3 (00:40):
Yes, and some great kiwis who make things in this
country telling their stories.

Speaker 4 (00:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
And then we will tell you at the end of
the show what you do with an l paka spits
at you.

Speaker 3 (00:50):
Yeah, all right, believe that you wouldn't believe it.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
With animal behaviorist Mark Vetti anyway. Thank you so much
for listening. Sub sit to subscribe and download and follow
and such. Maybe give us a review. Thank you so
much for listening. I think I already said that. All right,
Let's go love you, love you the big.

Speaker 1 (01:09):
Stories, the leak issues, the big trends and everything in between.
Matt Heath and Tyler Adams Afternoons.

Speaker 4 (01:17):
News talk said the.

Speaker 3 (01:23):
Good afternoon to you. Welcome into the show for this
Wednesday afternoon seven past one. Hope you're doing well whatever
you're listening in the country, Get a mat to get a.

Speaker 2 (01:32):
Tyler, good avyone. Great to be here. I've got a
little bit of a mere culpa. So yesterday I was
saying I support dropping kids off at malls and such
at a young age to develop independence. I was waxing
lyrical that I dropped my kids off at mauls when
they were very little.

Speaker 4 (01:47):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (01:47):
I was talking tolf about how I built resilience in
my kids by dropping them off unsupervised at mauls at
the age of seven.

Speaker 3 (01:54):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (01:55):
I have been fat checked by my family on this
quite okay, right, okay, big, I'll just read the statement
Bullocks when he was seven, he was with ten year
olds to look after him. Also, remember when the kids
first went to the shops, you followed them down the road,
hiding behind trees to make sure they were okay, Actually
you did that when they first went to the mall.
That time you were secretly following them around the mall

(02:16):
after you drop them off.

Speaker 3 (02:18):
Okay, So that's what the statement has been read.

Speaker 2 (02:20):
But that doesn't mean I wasn't building resilience because they
didn't know I was hiding behind trees, following them to
the shop to make sure they were okay. As far
as they were concerned. They were out on their own
making their own decisions.

Speaker 3 (02:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:32):
The fact that I was a little bit nervous and
followed them hiding mind trees when they were walking down
to the shops for the first time, and the fact
that I might have been, you know, at the other
end of the mall when the first time they were
looking around the mall, they as far as they knew.

Speaker 5 (02:45):
Yea, they were.

Speaker 2 (02:46):
They were out there on their own, independent, free from dead.

Speaker 3 (02:48):
Okay, And there was no malice leaving that information out yesterday.
It was just slipped your mind. Slipped your mind.

Speaker 2 (02:53):
Well, it did actually slip my mind. It was a
while ago, now, about ten years ago.

Speaker 3 (02:58):
There we go, all right, the statement is read, so
we could put that all right, very good. On to
today's show, super quick after three point thirty, Mark Viddi
is going to be on for our Ask the Experts series.
You know him well by now. He is an animal
behavior expert and is taking all your questions on anything
to do with your beloved pets.

Speaker 2 (03:17):
Yeah, we'll take any questions on any pets. But we've
been getting a lot of dog ones lately. So if
you've got something around another another flavor of animal, we'd
like to we'd like to get stuck into that as well.
But get those coming through nine two nine two or
ring when he's on after three thirty eight.

Speaker 3 (03:33):
Ten eighty after three o'clock lip filler story in the
Herald today about a lip filler procedure that went wrong.
But the white A question we want to ask is
why why the lot feller? What's the appeal?

Speaker 2 (03:44):
Yeah? Why are you risking so much getting your lips
to look like they've been stung by bees? And I
just don't understand it all? Yea, what does it look better?

Speaker 6 (03:53):
Phil?

Speaker 2 (03:53):
Anyway, we'll get onto that later.

Speaker 3 (03:54):
Yeah, that is after three o'clock. After two o'clock. It
was a sad story about a fraudster whose San Cave business.
In fourteen months, Liz don o'hue was her name, she
stole more than five hundred thousand dollars from an Auckland
home building company. The owner is still finding evidence of
suspected fraud.

Speaker 2 (04:09):
Has this happened to you? And what are the signs
that other people should look out for? And hundred at
eighty ten eighty Have you done it? Have you ripped
off the company you've worked for? Anonymously? You feel guilty,
You want to get it off your chest. You don't
need to know your name. But it'd be good for
us to understand the psychology of why people do this,
because obviously they do it for the money. But I

(04:31):
think there's something more going on, definitely more. My god,
the anxiety that you'd live with when you were ripping
off the company you were working for.

Speaker 3 (04:37):
Yep, there must be. That is after two o'clock though,
because right now we want to have a talk about
producing things in New Zealand. It is on the back
of the terriff situation unfolding. An interesting piece written by
Rod McNaughton is his name. He's a professor of business
at Auckland University and he made a fairly good argument
that we should be focusing on producing more things right
here in New Zealand.

Speaker 2 (04:54):
Yeah, that's right. He's not arging against trade. We need
that obviously we're an export country. But he's talking about
a concept of important replacement identify products currently sourced from elsewhere,
and he reckons are push towards the strives, specialization, innovation
and eventually new exports. So I guess the question is
what could we manufacture in New Zealand? What do we

(05:15):
import that we don't need to? Is it too hard?

Speaker 4 (05:19):
You know?

Speaker 2 (05:20):
And you know in COVID for example, you know we
found out that we needed to import Ppe. Should we
be making our own medicines here? And you know, if
you manufacture something in New Zealand or you want to,
how hard is it? Can you compete? What would you
need to change in New Zealand to help you compete?
Because we don't want to put tariffs on but there

(05:43):
can be an environment where we could create to foster
making manufacturing products in New Zealand.

Speaker 3 (05:49):
Yeah, I mean he made mention and we all know it,
but were heavily dependent on imported goods and critical sectors
like machinery, pharmaceuticals, digital infrastructure, fertilizers and food processing. And
he argued, any one of those supply chains, if they
are disrupted, we're not only inconvenience, we are deeply exposed.
And to reduce that vulnerability, we should be thinking about
producing some of those critical items right here in New Zealand.

Speaker 2 (06:14):
Well you we've just heard today the government has prioritized
in the use of New Zealand will for insulation and
carpets over synthetic materials. From July, all government buildings worth
more than nine million dollars in furbishments with a price
tag topping one hundred thousand dollars must use key we
will where possible, and Winston Peter's in New Zealand First
has championed this. But as that a way should the

(06:36):
government be buying you know, if it's not miles and
miles different in cost, should the government be doing this
like buying our will?

Speaker 3 (06:45):
Yeah? Great question. Oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty. Love
to hear from you if you are producing items, produce
whatever in this country. We're really keen to hear from you.
What are the hurdles that are put in your way?
And should we be investing more in our own products
and buying New Zealand made. Oh eight hundred eighty ten
eighty is the number corter is twelve plus.

Speaker 2 (07:03):
One and always it's an opportunity for you plug your
little business of your manufacturing something who were open to
your plugging yourself.

Speaker 3 (07:10):
Certainly are we love it.

Speaker 1 (07:13):
The big stories, the big issues, to the big trends
and everything in between. Matt Heath and Tyler Adams afternoons
used talks, they'd be good afternoon.

Speaker 3 (07:23):
And we are talking about building things here in New Zealand,
producing things here in New Zealand. Is that a strategy
we need to lean into more in the face of
tariff situation unfolding in the US and around the world. Oh,
eight hundred and eighty ten eighty is the number to call.
Plenty of great texts coming through, particularly about the wall
announcement today as well.

Speaker 2 (07:42):
I reckon the knitting wool retail industry. It will be
fantastic if all our stock could be made in New Zealand.
But there are not enough wall mills left any more
in New Zealand to meet the demand, nor the people
with the skills to run and maintain them. Some of
our supplieres get stock spun and died in China and
we then can sell it for less than five dollars
a ball. If this was done in New Zealand, it

(08:02):
would be up to seven to nine dollars a ball. Currently,
the wait time in New Zealand to get wool spun
can be over nine mile wow, So it's just not
worth doing it here, Emily, Yeah, you am, well that's
a problem, is it?

Speaker 3 (08:12):
Certainly is? Nikolai? How are you this afternoon?

Speaker 7 (08:16):
Oh?

Speaker 8 (08:16):
Hi there guys, I'm great. Thanks are you?

Speaker 7 (08:18):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (08:18):
Very good? And what's your thoughts about New Zealand needing
to produce more of its own things here?

Speaker 8 (08:25):
Well, I actually have a bit of a hands on
approach to this problem. I found an old jacket in
Covid and it was from this New Zealand made brown
brand called Oscar. I'd never heard of it, and then
I went on the big mission to try and bring
it back. So they made these really amazing canvas coats
all the way from nineteen twenty one until right up
into the nineties. And then yeah, I basically fell in

(08:51):
love with like how well they were made, and I
just thought it was a travesty that we didn't make
here anymore. So I sort of dedicated my life for
the last four years wow, bringing them back.

Speaker 2 (09:00):
And what are the challenges been, Nikolay.

Speaker 8 (09:04):
I would say the challenges have been firstly, the cost
of materials and manufacturing is obviously a lot higher. A
lot of people go for the design in New Zealand
approach at the moment where they just take a few
nice photos in Queenstanne slapper design in New Zealand on
it and then call it day. But for me, I
just couldn't.

Speaker 5 (09:23):
Like.

Speaker 8 (09:23):
I just I've gone and found all the history of
the brand. Had a Norwegian immigrant. His name was Oscar Oscar.
He turned up and he turned up in New Zealand
and nineteen twenties, and then he went on. This used

(09:43):
to be a sailmaker, canvas and tents and stuff, and
then you eventually started making these jackets. Then the company
had over one hundred people in it and about nineteen
fifty nine as a two story building. In fact, the
entire woman we had over ten thousand people working in
fashion and manufacturing. Then yeah, by the nineties or the

(10:07):
Roger knows, it all kind of collapsed. Uh yeah, because
of the we're let in the free trade, which I
mean we need to find I don't think we need
the free trade, but but I think we took a
sledge hammer at local manufacturing back then, and we could
have tooken a tizz.

Speaker 2 (10:24):
Yeah right, I mean, yeah, there's there's there's a lot
of you know, New Zealand brands that just they're just disappeared.
I'm not looking at your your jackets here, so the
canvas yep.

Speaker 8 (10:35):
And they're gonna live their collar like New Zealand later
on the collar and how how you know?

Speaker 2 (10:40):
How are you manufacturing them? Have you got a are
they handmade? Have you got a factory?

Speaker 8 (10:46):
So I was actually originally a trade before I got
into a fashion design and I have a really lovely Wellington.
She's a pattern maker names owner would grow.

Speaker 4 (10:56):
Yep.

Speaker 8 (10:57):
She helped me, uh design the new visans of the
jackets and basically like mentored me into getting those that
first one ready. Uh But yeah, I guess the main
thing is the cast I think in the day's economy,
like have you gotta make the Ziller made stuff? It
has to be that higher tier. Yeah, it can't be

(11:19):
middle or lower tier because you just get out worked
outbeaten by a China or overseas competitors. So yeah, I
think it is tough. But I recently made an Instagram
real on the Instagram Oscar ied and did and it's
done really well. They had got over seventy thousand views
in four days. So people really, I don't know. They

(11:45):
like the story, they appreciate what I'm trying to do,
So I'm just gonna keep going. You have to keep
You have to do a lot of stuff yourself. You
have to really make it work. Basically, many times of
like getting the fabric to New zeal And, I couldn't
do it. So the posters is going to be insane.
So whenever I knew someone going to Japan and get
them to bring back canvas and your luggage, that's the

(12:08):
kind of leason to go to just to get the
materials you need. I wanted to make the quality as
highs they could, so I really put put a lot
of effort into making them just as good of not
better than the originals.

Speaker 2 (12:23):
Well, I'm just looking at Oscar dot co dot in Z.
That's E. I D E Oscar, E I D E.

Speaker 8 (12:31):
Keep outside. But yeah, I myself have called it ID
for a long time and then I was corrected. But
I knowed we butchered a lot of people. He called
it Oscar, but names you don't say the yes Oscar I.

Speaker 2 (12:46):
And I'm looking at your heritage jacket, the pr black
and it's a it's a beautiful jacket. As you say,
it's got the leather collars. But it ain't cheap, is it.
Uh No?

Speaker 8 (12:57):
No, And I honestly like and they're not cheap and
they have that's basically the only uh I don't know,
that's you can't you can't make them fit, make a
profit on them really at un listed at that price.
But I'm a big believer that if you see I've
got New zeal made garmut in your wardrobe, you feel

(13:19):
good about it. You know, it drips with manna. Yeah,
And when you look at it, when you when you
look at your closet and see some something made you know,
offshore and some probably buy some children and some factory. Yeah,
you don't like, you feel nothing. So yeah, it's it's
abittment for forty years. When you do buy one. Yeah,
I'll ask you if you've got a problem with it,
you can come find me. I'll flexibly.

Speaker 6 (13:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (13:39):
Yeah, I love your tagline. Who will you pass it
down to? And that's you know, with with the quality
of the clothing you're making, and that we used to
make here, it was generational clothing that would just get
handed down each time, wasn't it.

Speaker 8 (13:52):
Yeah, it was something like fifteen percent of New Zealanders
and come way back in the day, in like the
forties fifties, fifty percent income was on clothes. But now
if you've spent fifty percent of income and clothes, how
much with that bit? But obviously as the clothes got
easy to produce, we got narrowed down to about one
percent maybe.

Speaker 4 (14:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (14:08):
And there's no micro fibers and this is there, no.

Speaker 8 (14:12):
No mic drivers, it's all it's all natural. The canvas
is special. It's from like this special Japanese mills only
makes about the meters a year, and that's why you
got a really nice weave and heavy weight to it.

Speaker 9 (14:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (14:24):
So I mean that's an interesting you know, supply chain.
So you know you're getting this premium canvas out of Japan,
bring it here, and then in manufacturing it. So so
you're you were saying before that if you if anyone
goes to Japan, you're like, can you pick some up
for me and bring it back?

Speaker 8 (14:40):
Yes, that's persically how we had to do it because
I was runging on a bit of a budget, and
but once I saw that canvas, I like, I would
love to buy the canvas interview on but we don't
have any milk like that. I actually went to Monganoian
had to look around all the old factories and the
old will mill. There was massive, you know, huge shop
floor and it's just abandoned. But there's a saved martint.
I'm actually selling Chinese made uh and where the Wolmar

(15:05):
used to be. But everyone from know that and they
were know a lot of the buildings then used to
be clothing factories.

Speaker 2 (15:13):
So yeah, you could buy. I mean, the idea would
be what we're talking about here in terms of buying
manufacturing New Zealand and buying New Zealand made is you
might have to buy quite an expensive jacket here, an
Oscar eyed jacket, but that would be your one jacket
you buy. You don't buy seventy five jackets from Timou
that you throw out most of them and they're a disaster. Yeah,

(15:34):
you buy one and that's that's your that's your freaking jacket,
and you wander around that in winter and you're good
to go.

Speaker 8 (15:41):
Exactly. That's what I'm trying. I try to show people
sometimes I've only debuted about a month ago as the
one show, and they're a hat with a lot of
the farmers and stuff. Yeah, and yeah they were a
lot of people would have also lot out there to have,
like a They want something usually made, so it's very
good to give them an option at least, you know,

(16:01):
I think what we be kind of a niche product.

Speaker 2 (16:03):
Yeah, are you is this your full time geg or
is it a side.

Speaker 8 (16:06):
Hustle the slight hustle until this month now or full time?

Speaker 3 (16:11):
So fantastic you're shifting a few units.

Speaker 8 (16:15):
Yeah, yeah so at the moment I can't quite afford
a store yet, but I'm doing a lot of the
shows and luckily I'm in the water Ker Queenstone area.
It's a good place for them.

Speaker 2 (16:25):
Yeah, a very It's got a very won of a
Queenstown vibe about the heritage jacket, even though it's p
har black.

Speaker 8 (16:33):
Yes, yes, so down here it's going all right, yeah,
especially at the one khod good to me?

Speaker 2 (16:41):
Yeah, well good on you, mate, Oscar. I'd check it out.
Go to the website. See if you want one of
these jackets. Do you mind if I say how much?
They cost? One hundred and fifty bucks?

Speaker 3 (16:51):
But you know, the good looking jack it will last
you multiple generations. Nikolai you're a good man. Thanks for
giving us a buzz and all the best. Thank you guys,
thank you very much. So there, Well, I mean when
we look at New Zealand clothing, we'll pride ourselves on
some pretty incredible brands in our lifetime, you know, Icebreaker
and DO. But the truth is their ice Breaker and
cat Men DO and some of those other ones have

(17:13):
moved their manufacturing offshore, which is you know, that is
kind of a sad aspect of we used to be
known as producing incredible bits of clothing, adventure clothing primarily,
but sadly we just those particular companies can't manufacture them
in New Zealand for the cost that they're selling a man.

Speaker 2 (17:31):
Yeah, great, great brands like lidiag shoes. Yeah, they disappeared, Yeah,
due to everything being unable to compete with the manufacturers overseas.

Speaker 5 (17:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (17:41):
Oh, eight hundred eighty ten eighty is the number to
call if you are producing something here in New Zealand.
We'd love to hear from you. What are you producing
and what are the challenges you're facing? And the wider
question is do we need to protect ourselves a bit more,
be a bit more resilient in the face of some
changes in global trade and produce more things here in
New Zealand. Whether that is having government intervention and help

(18:02):
to do that, is that a wise strategy going forward?
Love to hear from you on oh, eight hundred and
eighty ten eighty, it's twenty six paste.

Speaker 1 (18:09):
Putting the tough questions to the newspeakers the mic asking breakfast.

Speaker 2 (18:13):
Things are not going well.

Speaker 10 (18:15):
I'm afraid to tell you when it comes to the
battle over organized crime. The chair of this Ministerial Advisory
Group is Steve Simon. What you delivered and what you
thought you might deliver? Are they two different?

Speaker 11 (18:23):
Things?

Speaker 2 (18:24):
Were basically the same.

Speaker 12 (18:25):
I've been doing this for twenty years, so I thought
by this stage, being a prosecutor for two dedicated they'd
be very little. That surprised me. But if you look
at the numbers, particularly the wastewater numbers, and you look
at the seizure numbers of how much we're stopping coming
into the country, it's pretty frightening.

Speaker 10 (18:37):
You've got a banking security expert on your panel. Are
the banks aware of the money flow? Are they all
over it or not?

Speaker 12 (18:42):
The banks are aware of money floats, so certainly there'
a disconnect between the work done by the private world
and also the govern agency.

Speaker 10 (18:50):
Back tomorrow at six am the Mike Hosking Breakfast with
Mayley's Real Estate News Talk zb Afternoon.

Speaker 3 (18:56):
We're talking about producing more things here in New Zealand.
It is an argument made by Rod mc norden, he's
a professor of business at Auckland University. On the back
of the tariff situation that is unfolding around the world
at the moment.

Speaker 2 (19:08):
It's not a terrift thing. It's not about shielding firms
from competition. It's about growing new capabilities from the ground up.
This is what Rod mc norton is talking about. Russell
your thoughts on manufacturing in New Zealand.

Speaker 13 (19:24):
I'm just calling in behalf of my wife. She can't
talk right now, but she used to manufacture her own
swimwear brand in New Zealand. And she's been a clothing
designer for a number of years in New Zealand, and
she actual founded Tota for Gold in the pro fashion industry.
To actually get ahead that she's had.

Speaker 9 (19:40):
To pivot into becoming a newdidit artist. So she now
produces unique New Zealand art, handmade ordery arts done on
a sewing machine of all the remarkable New Zealand Flora
and Horner, and she sells that globally around the world.
Now she's been picked up by Rodin Gun. She's shown
in their stores in New.

Speaker 13 (20:00):
York and the other places.

Speaker 9 (20:01):
Globally, she's exhibited in a number of galleries across New Zealand.
But she just struggled so much to get ahead.

Speaker 13 (20:09):
To get ahead in the fashion industry in this country.
Because of the problems manufacturing the fashion pieces, she's had
to put her away from that and use her aunts
still set and fashion filtered in another avenue.

Speaker 2 (20:21):
Untilely So Russell described her art. So, it's it's fabric art, yes.

Speaker 9 (20:28):
It basically if you go to Katy Jane Designs dot com,
oh well it's her website.

Speaker 13 (20:34):
So basically what she does.

Speaker 2 (20:35):
What did you say, Testy? Sorry, what did you say,
Kathy James.

Speaker 9 (20:39):
Katy Jane j and Eh Jane yep designs dot com.

Speaker 2 (20:45):
Yep, got it? Yeah, got it?

Speaker 13 (20:47):
So basically Saxon industrial saying machine and she pitches pictures.
It's her pencil upside down, back to front, undisolvable special
fabric wow dissolved in fabric art and makes images of
New Zealand's Flora and Warner.

Speaker 2 (21:05):
It's very cool.

Speaker 3 (21:06):
Yeah, beautiful designs.

Speaker 13 (21:09):
And you had to pivot out of the fashion industry
because she just couldn't. She had her own somewhere brand.
She was shown in the swim and all us up,
but she just couldn't get a manufacturing off the ground
in New Zealand. And it would either go off shore
and manufacture or pivot away into using her talents in
another area completely.

Speaker 2 (21:28):
I might use this giant tower cover leaf three D
thread sculpture number three is a sort of fig leaf
type swimwear. But you said you said it was in
do you say that it's on sale and and Rod
and Gunn Is that what you said?

Speaker 13 (21:44):
Yes?

Speaker 9 (21:45):
Yeah, So the designers, the store designers at gun and
picked her up as one of their hardests that.

Speaker 13 (21:50):
They use in their store for up Right just had
four pieces put up and in brand New New York
for Avenue store.

Speaker 3 (21:58):
Wow.

Speaker 13 (21:58):
On the wall of the store is Warriber pieces up.

Speaker 14 (22:01):
In the store.

Speaker 2 (22:02):
That's really interesting. So you start off, you start off
designing clothes and then you end up selling the wall
hangings for clothes stores. That's an interesting pivot.

Speaker 13 (22:13):
Yeah, but she's got this amazing creative talent, and she
just couldn't make it in the fashion history because of
the manufacturing challenges. Yeah, this was a natural way to
use that challenge to promote Land globally. Yeah, contributing to
the industry.

Speaker 2 (22:29):
Well, tell you what, good honor and check out Kathy
Jane Designs dot com. Yeah, have a look at the stuff.

Speaker 3 (22:35):
It's pretty cool, Russell, thank you very much. I mean,
that is a great insights and good on Kathy Jane
who transitioned into something that is clearly successful. But that's
how we'll solve our economy. We'll all just do art,
ye transition into art.

Speaker 2 (22:47):
If we all just do art to be hung on
the walls of shops around the globe, then no problems
will be completely and utterly protected from the ups and
downs of the global economy.

Speaker 3 (22:57):
I wonder how you get into the game of just
hanging your art in places like Rod and Gunn. Do
you just rock up to them and say, I've got
this beautiful art.

Speaker 15 (23:02):
You need it?

Speaker 2 (23:04):
Well, it's in the New York store, so they must have.

Speaker 6 (23:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:08):
Actually that would have been a good question to ask,
but we didn't know how she sorted that out. But
she's done very well for your time.

Speaker 3 (23:14):
Got the headlines coming up ectually, Russell, you're still there.
We're horribly lay But how did she get into teaming
up with Rod and Gun?

Speaker 13 (23:22):
So she exhibits in them one of the premier galleries
in Auckland and have an agreement with Rod and Gun
and the designer goes to the poor of de pieces
for On and Gun. And he walked into the store,
saw her piece and fell in love with them and.

Speaker 3 (23:35):
The rest of the street Bostick, do you go?

Speaker 2 (23:38):
There's a question answered.

Speaker 3 (23:39):
That's the answer. It is twenty seven to to.

Speaker 14 (23:43):
Jus talk said be headlines with blue bubble taxis it's
no trouble with a blue bubble. From July, all new
government buildings worth more than nine million dollars and refurbishments
costing more than one hundred thousand must use kiwe wool
carpet and insulation where possible. New Zealand's aiming to boost
trade with the United Arab Emirates, with the Trade Minister

(24:06):
attending Abu Dhabi's Annual Investment Congress. Police are investigating allegations
of assault at Auckland's Kingsway Christian School near Silverdale Executive
principal Graham Butler says this relates to outdated disciplinary practices.
Labour leader Chrisitkins says head back Andrew Little to become
Wellington's mayor after he's announced he's considering the top job.

(24:30):
A machinery item and a passenger's carry on that had
residual fuel is to blame for a flight from Blenham
to Auckland Divertington, New Plymouth yesterday after passengers reported smelling fuel.
The Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade has launched a
dedicated email address and hotline for businesses with questions around
US tariffs On the up, can we butcher a cut

(24:54):
above almost all the rest after taking our third place
in the world. You can get the full story at
d said Herold Premium back to matt Ethan Tyler Adams.

Speaker 3 (25:04):
Thank you very much, Rayleen. And we're talking about producing
more things here in you New Zealand's on the back
of a thesis an article in The Conversation by Rod McNaughton.
He's a professor of business who argued that we should
be producing a whole lot more stuff here on the
back of the tariff situation. But it's not anti free trade,
that's a very important part of it, but it's making
us more resilient on those things that we rely on

(25:25):
if there is international trade disruption.

Speaker 2 (25:27):
Yeah, it's not about shielding firms from competition. It's about
growing u capabilities from the ground up and the things
that we don't you know, important goods, critical critical to
New Zealand, machinery, pharmaceuticals, digital infrastructure, fertilizers and food processing.
You know what he's saying. If any of these supply
chains are disrupted, we're not just inconvenience, we are exposed.

(25:51):
So there's strategic reasons to do it as well, as
I was saying before. When we didn't, we found out
that we didn't manufacture a lot of stuff we needed
during COVID in the country, such as ppe Marcus says. Seriously, guys,
the two examples you've had on air about New Zealand
produced things say that all overpriced things for people looking
for ways to spend their money, utterly useless for the majority.

(26:12):
Thanks for that, Marcus. Nothing wrong with rich people, nothing
wrong with selling to rich people.

Speaker 3 (26:17):
In clothing, you know, good quality clothing is what we
used to produce in New Zealand. There was a lot
of very successful brands Icebreaker, cat Men do Macpack. They
were all started here, they produced clothes here. Then those
particular businesses have been purchased by international conglomerates and now
they make them overseas.

Speaker 2 (26:36):
Yeah, and buying stuff from disgusting places like Timu isn't
necessarily a wise budget decision buying hundreds and hundreds of
useless things as opposed to one really good thing. But
I do get Marcus's point. I mean, we're not going
to secure our economy strategically by selling art that's not

(26:57):
well sweet for sure. I mean we're going to be
the Wahiki Island of the nineties globally, is that we're
going to be this Texas is we used to. We
once had quite a lot of industry, employing a lot
of skilled people people. Then the labor government of the
late nineteen eighties lowered all the tariffs and the clowns,
and if m Fat was with Helling, Clark's government got

(27:18):
the free trade craze and entered in agreement with China. Well,
the well jobs went and we went backwards to a
farm reliant economy with a population of low paid peasants.
Free trade has the consequences everywhere, which is why most
countries are not as dumb as US. Most countries have
tariffs exceptful within small groups with mutual benefits. Now, I mean,

(27:39):
that's one way of looking at Another way of looking
at it is that the UK into the EU and
we'd had all their eggs in that basket and we
were stockpiling butter and we were absolutely broke. And when
that gave government came in and saw the box. After
Rob muldoon left, they went, oh my goodness, we can't
keep subsidizing, and we became the free market com we

(28:03):
are now. And look there's been some problems, but you've
got to say that opened up a lot. The New
Zealand has absolutely opened up to the up to the world.
But maybe we haven't got the balance exactly right, and
maybe we could encourage industries in New Zealand not going
the tariff way as as this professor says. As Auckland

(28:25):
University Professor and of Entrepreneurship A. Rod McNaughton says, he's
suggesting it could mean encouraging research institutes developed substitutes for
materials we currently source offshore. Universities and other research organizations
can play a vital role by collaborating with startups and
small or meat and size businesses that can accelerate innovation
from prototype to production. Tertiary intostation institutions can help translate

(28:50):
research into real world resilience. Public procurement could also be
better leverage. Government contracts could reward suppliers who helped produce
reduce import dependency.

Speaker 3 (29:00):
Quick A couple of texts, then we're going to play
some messages. Hey guys, most people prefer to buy from
TU to cost no way we compete with that, which
is sad. I refuse to by from TIMU and support
locals often as I can. I also do knitting for
charity and only buy New Zealand will. But unfortunately people
often go for the lowest price good regardless of quality.
That needs to change.

Speaker 2 (29:19):
Cured on your Kruski A tastic key.

Speaker 6 (29:21):
We love it.

Speaker 3 (29:22):
It is nineteen to cool.

Speaker 1 (29:24):
Matt Heath, Taylor Adams taking your calls on eight hundred
and eighty ten eighty. It's Mad Heath and Taylor Adams
Afternoons news Talk.

Speaker 3 (29:32):
Sa'd be good afternoon. We've asked the question, do we
need to be producing more things here in New Zealand
and bring back some manufacturing to the country. On the
back of a article where a professor of business at
Auckland University argues we should be doing that to build
up resilience.

Speaker 2 (29:47):
Dave says, I don't think we should kid ourselves about
our free trade. We have a fifteen percent tariffs on
every tariff that on everything that comes into the country.
It's called gest Wow. We have got fifteen percent on
absolutely everything, and it's manufactured in New Zealand as well,
obviously have fifteen percent. Thank goodness, we're getting fifty fifteen
percent of the stuff being brought off TIMU exactly because
New Zealand citizens seem to be intent of pouring all

(30:09):
the money in our country down the drain to buy
trash from overseas. Yeah, so thank goodness, we're getting fifteen
percent of that.

Speaker 3 (30:18):
Yeah, we've got to clip the ticket somewhere, don't we.
Ben How are you this afternoon?

Speaker 5 (30:23):
Good?

Speaker 16 (30:24):
Thanks, But this is a bit of a tentative topping
for me. I've always felt that as a country we've
produced our own stuff and pretty much relying on ourselves
back in the old days. And it's quite proud you know,
you only go to look around in the history with
Brittany John Britain for an example, mclarence and we used

(30:47):
to produce the tricker here and simple, the toyotas and
the old jaguars, and man, yeah, there's there's so many things.
And yeah, I've just I've noticed that there seems to
be a lot of people inheriting the grandparents or the
appearance businesses, uh and then telling them, yeah, and this

(31:12):
is a problem. This is a this is a big,
big problem.

Speaker 5 (31:15):
I think.

Speaker 16 (31:17):
Yeah, I'm just one for not acting cameo and I'm
one for holding on to things for you know, I
don't want to boast here, but you know I've been
here as my my fremperance station. Yes I get a
dimitum each year, but you know I could sell that
in the city three million dollars.

Speaker 3 (31:37):
It's a farming station.

Speaker 17 (31:38):
Obviously, it's a yeah, yeah, and you know, you know
it's yeah, tempting, but never do because it's been that,
you know, through three three generations.

Speaker 2 (31:52):
Yeah you have you got kids been yeah.

Speaker 16 (31:55):
Yeah, And I'm trying to figure out a way that
I can make it so that they can't for the
fact that they that they will, but you know, I
know I just stay well clear of it because you know,
I hated I hated the farm.

Speaker 13 (32:06):
You know, I got out of it here.

Speaker 16 (32:09):
Suits I could and live to the city and the
set of trade, and I'm happy days in the trade,
you know, speaking of that, you know, like I'm in
the jowdery trade. And I noticed we've produced a lot
of trees here and here we go sending them over
to somewhere our seas to go and produce plan we
need to have a plywood factory. And the excuses aren't

(32:30):
the same thing. I think the we don't have people
here to work the factories and what and you know,
we've got a lot of people that are on the dole.
And I think the government is doing the right thing
with chasing up the people that are on job secret
benefits and pointing out who is and who is a
bludgeon because you know, we could fill those boys of
that with a bit of hard love. But well, you

(32:50):
don't work. Here's the job, that's the career. But mess
we really need to get back to being what we used.
What we did quite well was to stay ourselves and
after COVID, you know, there was another reason why sort
of backed up what I'm saying is, you know, to
do with for independent, I mean.

Speaker 2 (33:12):
That discussed all of us, that whole Plywood situation. It
just seems so counterintuitive. But to go back to that,
so you're actually working the station now, living on and
working the station.

Speaker 16 (33:23):
No, no, I see, yeah, it's the case of the dots.
I ain't broke right that.

Speaker 4 (33:30):
Least.

Speaker 16 (33:31):
Let's the manager in charge here, the accountants looking after it,
the shepbards, seven shepherds.

Speaker 2 (33:36):
On it, and it's profitable.

Speaker 16 (33:38):
Yeah, well I get paid each year, so that must be.

Speaker 2 (33:42):
Yeah, but you've got that thirty three million dollars hanging
over your head that you could just cash out right
now and just be a fat cat for the rest
of your life. That that must be the position to
be in, Ben.

Speaker 16 (33:55):
That is when when I see some years are great,
but then some years we've got to do some maintenance
on it. On we've got to upgrade the fleet of
everyone gets you use.

Speaker 3 (34:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 16 (34:05):
So so yeah, those of the things can play play
on the dividend and you know, tis think it are.

Speaker 9 (34:15):
My bit.

Speaker 3 (34:16):
Yeah you know what good on you?

Speaker 15 (34:17):
Ben?

Speaker 3 (34:18):
Yeah?

Speaker 16 (34:19):
Yeah, yeah, you know I will not I couldn't Yeah, yeah,
but we just need to hold on the things to
be millionaires overnight. Yeah, and continue the tradition. Backbone backbone.

Speaker 2 (34:34):
You are right, you are a backboneer, Ben, And thank
you so much for your call.

Speaker 3 (34:39):
Yeah, that's that's great. I mean, good on them three million,
not even taking away slices off the land just to
get a couple of meal.

Speaker 2 (34:45):
I reckon you would sell out your ancestors, Tyler for
thirty three dollars, Ben been.

Speaker 3 (34:51):
Is thirty three mil.

Speaker 2 (34:52):
Yeah, is the best of us?

Speaker 3 (34:55):
Yeah, absolute backbone. One hundred and eighty ten eighty is
the number to call. Keen on your thoughts. If you
do produce things here in New Zealand, how hard is it?
Are the challenges that don't need to be there? And
is it a good idea that we look to have
a strategic change to produce more things here in this country?
It is ten to two.

Speaker 1 (35:15):
Matt Heath Taylor Adams taking your calls on eight hundred
and eighty ten eighty. It's Matt Heath and Tyler Adams
afternoons news DOGSB.

Speaker 3 (35:24):
News Dogs B. It is eight to two and we're
talking about producing more things here in New Zealand. It
is an argument made by Rod McNaughton, who's a professor
of business at Auckland University. It's not anti free trade
that is important to us as an island nation, but
it is about building more resilience and producing some more
of those things that we deeply rely on.

Speaker 15 (35:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:44):
Well his argument is that you know, if you build these,
you know, potentially pharmaceutical companies, digital infrastructure, you know, specialized machinery,
you might actually develop new export yeah businesses, you know,
down down the track. But obviously it's something that people
see that we want to do. It hasn't been proven
to be very easy to do. While welcome to the show.

(36:04):
Hi guys, are very good, very good. Your thoughts on this,
Zealand manufacturer?

Speaker 18 (36:10):
Well, look, this is my experience where we design and
build as part of our range and it's important part
of furniture and homewes and such. But what we find
is that we can make the same thing here, it's

(36:31):
going to cost four times as much as the landed
cost of building the same thing in Vietnam, China, Indonesia. Right,
So you would have heard over the last few days
right that there's there's you know, this this uproar about
how much an iPhone is going to cost which is
going to see you know, if it was manufacturing in
the US, it costs by five thousand bucks instead of
a thousand dollars. But that's that's that's the reality. So

(36:56):
your professor, who's who's saying, Okay, well we need to
build in resilience and and such. It's only going to
do so much. You're not going to be able to
take away that fourfold cost of French a right. You know,
you might be able to take you know, half of
it away maybe maximum, but we just do not have
the market to be able to sustain at getting those

(37:21):
prices down that far.

Speaker 2 (37:22):
Yeah, I mean, we're never going to be able to
make TVs here and we're never gonna be able to
make iPhones here, and that that might just need to
be to be accepted. So does it have to be
high end manufacturing?

Speaker 18 (37:37):
So you so you that is my point, right, is
that the beauty of manufacturing in New Zealand is dexterity customization.
It's those things our our you know, the guys that
come to us for for pieces of furniture sofas, for example,
we are making those in exactly a fabric they want

(37:59):
exactly the configuration that they want.

Speaker 4 (38:01):
Right.

Speaker 18 (38:03):
Yes, it costs, it costs more than a than an
important model where you've only got a selective number of
of of colors and a selected number of configurations.

Speaker 4 (38:12):
Right.

Speaker 18 (38:12):
But but that that's where that's the beauty of New Zealand.
You can apply that to virtually anything, right, you know
you can. You can apply that to you know, have
a have a have an associate who's who owns a
sort of a food processing roboducts company right now, those
tailor made pieces of machinery. Yeah, they export to the States,

(38:32):
right that that style of thing is what New Zealand
can be good at. But highly unifize things like ppe
for examples, pharmaceuticals things like that. I don't know that
we can make the differential and cost up to make
it sustainable.

Speaker 2 (38:48):
Thank you so much for your call. It's interesting because
you know Athletic Greens about that age one, so that
manufactured in New Zealand but but not sold in New Zealand.

Speaker 3 (38:59):
It's weird, isn't it abode to the bottom.

Speaker 2 (39:01):
Not structly pharmaceuticals. Yeah, it's you know a collection of
you know, vitamins and you know athletic greens. Yeah, but
so I mean there are things like that that we
managed to be able to do here in New Zealand.
But I mean that is primary produce being. You know,
it's basically food production, isn't it.

Speaker 3 (39:22):
Yeah, And I know there is government funding going into
the likes of Messi University that tries to undertake that
food research and then down at Lincoln University egg research
as well, and we just got to hope that we
get some of that.

Speaker 2 (39:34):
We got it. We egg research is where we cac
bar exactly.

Speaker 3 (39:38):
Oh eight hundred and eighty ten eighty is the number
of cour were don't carry this on for a little
bit after two o'clock because so many, so many people
want to have a chat about it. So we're keen
to hear your thoughts about producing more things here in
New Zealand. Can we do it? If you're doing it,
love to hear from you.

Speaker 4 (39:54):
Talking with you all afternoon.

Speaker 1 (39:56):
It's Matt Heathen Taylor Adams Afternoons News Talks.

Speaker 4 (39:59):
It'd be.

Speaker 3 (40:01):
Afternoon to you. Welcome back into the show. Now, just
before we get back into discussing should we be producing
building more things here in New Zealand, the Reserve Bank
has cut the official cash rate another twenty five basis
points is rarely mentioned in the news. It is now
at three point five percent. It was in line with
what most economists were predicting.

Speaker 2 (40:20):
Yep okay, And speaking of manufacturing, it looks like they've
manufactured a couple of die wolves. So is that the
kind of thing we need to manufacture in New Zealand
we bring back, the more.

Speaker 3 (40:29):
They would sell like hotcakes, die wolves, we could we
could make some great die wolves.

Speaker 2 (40:32):
Here more more could you know, that's a lot of
meat on a more. Yeah, if we bring them back,
then maybe maybe maybe we have a whole new export
meat that would.

Speaker 3 (40:43):
Go well in European restaurants.

Speaker 2 (40:45):
But a breast, but we know nothing about what more
tasted like. Yeah, would it just be like EMU?

Speaker 3 (40:52):
I don't know, though they had a bit.

Speaker 2 (40:54):
More Jesus would have been good when they were just
there because most of them, most of them were only
sort of turkey sized. Yeah, you know, there's the really
big ones, but most of them are turkey sized. So
you know, you could have a whole new market there.

Speaker 3 (41:05):
You see the giant one. I think they've got a
skeleton and Auckland Museum that would feed a village for
a good couple of weeks. They were massive.

Speaker 2 (41:12):
Yeah, although the way the head is always placed straight
up to make them as tall as possible, that their
head would have actually bent right down like an emuse.
Not much meat in the neck, no, yeah, much on
that exactly my neck. Let's go right now back to
the topic. We've had so many people who want to

(41:33):
have a chat about this and have sent through text.
So one hundred and eighteen eighty is the number to call.
If you can't get through, keep trying. But the question
we've raised is do we need to have a slight
strategic change of direction and look at producing more things
here in New Zealand. We certainly used to in decades past.
But the argument has been made by a professor of

(41:53):
business at Auckland University. His name is Rod mc norton.
But he argues that this would build resilience into our
overall international trade strategy. This isn't about New Zealand putting
tariffs on stuff because that would be very difficult for
us today. We have to be an open market because
we are very focused on exporting. We do very well
at our exporting, but we don't make some strategic things

(42:17):
in New Zealand. We don't make pharmaceuticals. You know, he's saying, Look,
these are some of the this is what he says.
We are heavily dependent on imported goods and critical sectors
like machinery, pharmaceuticals, digital infrastructure, fertilizer and food processing. I mean,
there are some things that we don't make in New
Zealand that we might strategically need to make in New Zealand.

Speaker 7 (42:37):
And.

Speaker 2 (42:37):
As I say, he's not talking about tariffs, but he's
talking about ways that we could help entrepreneurs in New Zealand.
It would mean encouraging research institutes to develop subsidies for
materials we currently source offshore. Universities and other research organizations
could play a vital row by collaborating with startups. Public
procurement could also be better leverage. Government contracts could reward

(43:00):
suppliers who help import dependency, reduce and import dependency, and
build options into the domestic supply chains. You could argue
what's happened today that the government prioritizing the use of
New Zealand wool for insulation and carpets over synthetic materials
is a step in that direction in terms of helping
our farmers. From July you probably heard all government buildings

(43:23):
worth more than nine million dollars in refurbishments with a
price tag topping one hundred thousand dollars must use key.
We will where possible, because that is one thing. Is
one thing not being able to compete on the on
the global markets. It's another thing when the government imports
stuff that we make here. Yeah, I think that really
annoys us. You know one thing we love in New Zealand,

(43:44):
well we hate but we have a lot of road cones,
and we import a lot of our road cones.

Speaker 3 (43:49):
We should be producing our own road codes. We love them,
hate them.

Speaker 2 (43:52):
There is a company in Auckland that does produce road cones.
I went out and visited them and I wrote an
article on them, and they munch up a lot of
old road cones and fire them out as new road cones.
I should check if they're still going okay. But I
was shocked discover that we have people that produce road
cones and we are still importing them, and you know,
government organizations are still importing them from over the seas.

(44:13):
That seems crazy. What we need to do is have
one one hundredth of the road cones that we use,
because we clearly use too many road cones and we
need to the government needs to buy the ones that
are made in New Zealand.

Speaker 3 (44:24):
Yeah, now you're thinking, oh, e one hundred and eighty
ten eighty is the number to call quick Tex guys.
The single most important thing is we need to manufacture
locally fuel we can and we should. A lack of
that will shut us down quicker than anything else from Greg.

Speaker 2 (44:39):
I mean, there's a lot of people are texting through this.
You know, the ridiculous situation we have where we import coal,
so we shut down coal mines and then we import coal.
You may have the belief that we shouldn't be born
at burning fossil fuels and we shouldn't be burning coal,
but it's ridiculous if you continue to burn the coal
and a couple of years ago to record levels, yeah,

(45:01):
whilst importing it, which adds another layer of fossil fuels
by bringing it into the country. That seems like a
crazy the.

Speaker 3 (45:08):
Situation that doesn't sanity Susan, How are you this afternoon?

Speaker 19 (45:13):
Hello?

Speaker 20 (45:13):
By are you guys?

Speaker 3 (45:14):
You're good? And what's your thoughts about producing more products here.

Speaker 20 (45:18):
Okay, I'm against producing more stuff in New Zealand. So
we are a small economy, which means we can never
have internal circulations with economy, unlike China, who can produce
consume all by ourself, so they can have a lot
less reliance on international trade. And we in the power
have benefitss enormously in the last three years from free trade.

(45:42):
We can produce lots of things you need to like
the four hundred and fifty dollars deckerts we just mentioned.

Speaker 2 (45:47):
Before fifteen fourteen. Yep, that's right, okay, right, we.

Speaker 20 (45:53):
Can't have everyone buying that because not everyone can afford us.
We can't take away the options to buy a four
dollars like a four dollars decker, so we often we
can't a little bit.

Speaker 2 (46:07):
I mean, I don't think susan no one suggesting that
we take away that option were And this professor is
definitely wants to stay as an open economy. He clearly
says that at the start, but he's looking at areas
that we could manufacture in New Zealand. I mean, it's
gross how much stuff we import, how much absolute rubbish
we we import, and ideally people would only buy quality products.

(46:29):
But there's no way that he's suggesting that we should
stop and import.

Speaker 3 (46:34):
Because ideally, Susan, with those fourteen decats that yeah, that
other people around the world would buy them as well.
But the point of manufacturing them here and creating them
here is that you're using local labor. The money stays
within New Zealand, so it benefits us as an economy,
which we already do.

Speaker 20 (46:52):
So I guess then, comeback is the word of subsidy.
Do we want to subsidize that? Thought us anger?

Speaker 21 (47:01):
Try No, Okay, if.

Speaker 20 (47:03):
We're not subsidizing, then there is no discussion because we
already don't it. Anyway, we produce for fourteen hundred dollars jackets,
people can buy them, and we import some of the
tricker options.

Speaker 2 (47:13):
Yeah, but we but Susan, we have a trade deficit,
so we borrow money to keep living the lifestyle that
we do we live. And also the argument is some
of it is strategically important to us. Some farmam cynicles,
digital infrastructure, fertilizer and such are strategically and important to us.
And you know the world supply chain can be disrupted,

(47:38):
so even yeah, but some of the.

Speaker 20 (47:40):
Resources we just don't have, for example, fertilizers, and we
have to use lots of nitrogen all our DAIA products.
That is all important, and we are a factored by
the market price of international markets. But we don't have
a fertilizer mine here, so there are things that we
have to import. Back to the point, I think our

(48:02):
discussion should be how to improve our productivity, how to
increase our competitive advantage?

Speaker 2 (48:08):
Agreed? Agreed.

Speaker 20 (48:10):
If we have dairy, we all know that our dia
put out is very competitive only international markers. We've produced
a lot of this and we can actually produce that
cheaper than Europe and the USA. So we should actually
invest more onto these sort of industries that give us
more and more competitive advantage that will lifts our productivity

(48:31):
rather than subsidized some of the industries. That's we're not
good at, Yeah, producing product that the market makes the
run us.

Speaker 2 (48:41):
Yeah, well absolutely, I mean, and that's really what this
guy is saying is that, look, we're not There's no
no push in this argument at all towards subsidies. And
now the argument isn't against trade, it's New Zealand. New
Zealand's economy depends on on trade. Absolutely but you know,
COVID taught us some things that that the open openness

(49:05):
isn't without potential liabilities in some areas. And also just
because we can't compete in price with things. As a
few people have have rung and said today, we can
create extremely high end products and bestoke products that aren't
you know, aren't the cheapest in the world, but are

(49:27):
the best in the world in that category. And you
should you surely support that O great.

Speaker 20 (49:33):
So for example, our dere in China actually is much
higher price than their lawcal products or we can use,
so there's no problem at all.

Speaker 3 (49:42):
Yeah, would you agree, Susan You just mentioned they're fertilizers
any and the author makes this point in the article,
But we do have a significant research and development there's
a research and there's others Messy university. It's not a
fair argument that there could be substitutes to fertilizer that
could be developed here and that gives us an edge
an advantage in the international market.

Speaker 20 (50:05):
I would agree on that definitely, as long as as
imploring things that much to make us steel fatter than
other people, they've all got.

Speaker 2 (50:14):
To Yeah, thanks you so much, Thank you so much
for your call. Susan really appreciate it. Interestingly, when we
talk about AGG research and we talk about us being
leaders in that we have shut it down completely for
the last thirty years investigations into GE, haven't we we have,
so we have slipped behind that. Oddly for a country

(50:34):
that's so far ahead in a lot of areas of
AGG research, we've really slipped behind in GE. We're thirty
years behind Australia in that one yeap, which is a
concern which has been looked at at the moment.

Speaker 3 (50:44):
Yeah, yeah, mister trick on that one absolutely. Oh eight
hundred eighty ten eighty is the number to call. It
is seventeen past two back with more of your call.

Speaker 1 (50:52):
Surely your home of afternoon talk mad he than Tyler
Adams afternoons call, Oh, eight hundred eighty ten eighty News Talk.

Speaker 3 (51:01):
ZEDB, News TALKSB. It is twenty past two. Eight hundred
and eighty ten eighty is seen number to call.

Speaker 2 (51:09):
Proline Plastics Limited was the company I was talking about
that manufactured road cones. Recycling cone recycling. Proline practice will
accept back used in old road cones for reprocessing into
new recycled road cones. The scheme is simply with a
one for one swap process. So we should we should
be using these guys.

Speaker 3 (51:27):
Yeah, that's a great New Zealand.

Speaker 2 (51:28):
And someone saying here, look, we can't afford to do
the road cones here. We have to go for the
best price possible. Lotle's road cone we've made here from
this New Zealand Prolin dog Code and Z got thirty
two dollars twenty.

Speaker 3 (51:40):
Thirty two bucks. And I'm pretty sure I'm right here.
The average cost of a road cone that we import
here from those other companies are two hundred bucks per cone.
I've seen that figure before.

Speaker 2 (51:49):
This is a four point five kg road cone. I
don't know's that to say. I don't know how much
a road cone should should weigh. I threw one at
someone once.

Speaker 3 (51:58):
And it seems about right, four point five kilo.

Speaker 2 (52:02):
But you know, this is what we should do. We
should get all the road cones now. No more road
cones can enter the New Zealand because we've all we
know we've got too many. We've already got enough road
cones in New Zealand. We don't need any more. If
you want another road cone, you have to recycle a
previous road cone and eventually, over time we'll get down
to what we've started doing is doubling road cones and

(52:22):
putting them right beside each other. So now there's no
gap between road cones. Now I only need a road
cone every ten meters, yeah, five meters. We've gone crazy
on roadcudes. Yeah, So send them out to proline plastics women.

Speaker 3 (52:34):
And shut the borders to road cones.

Speaker 2 (52:35):
Let's recycle them.

Speaker 3 (52:37):
Yeah, Bruce, you've been lobbying ministers over procurement policies.

Speaker 22 (52:43):
Yeah, and the new Zealand Procurement Charter that they have.
And I just had Tanovich Ankovich here on Monday, and
Greg Flemming a couple of weeks ago, right the National Party.
And because basically all our clothing manufacturers are closing. You know,

(53:05):
we've just lost so many customers, business to business customers
over the last eighteen months. It's horrendous. And it really
all comes back to government procurement. A lot of the
manufacturers would have government contracts and then they could actually
do other things as well. But the last regime gave

(53:31):
most of our government procurement to oversea supplies, so all
our tax dollars again directly overseas we're not producing tax
from New Zealand manufacturers. You know, I can give you
a prime example. Hill's Hats down on Willington used to
make all the hats for the defense force. Now they're

(53:53):
brought in from Vietnam, viral Australia.

Speaker 2 (53:58):
See that seems very very wrong to me. Is there
an equation that has been done? So if in terms
of say you say you're getting the hats cheaper, but
as far as the government spending the money in New
Zealand and everything staying within the ecosystem of our economy,
has their equation been done? How much is actually lost
buying the cheaper prict to it to our economy?

Speaker 22 (54:20):
I mean, well, the equations very simple, because anything manufactured
here in New Zealand is causing about fifty percent tax anything. Yeah,
because you're paying EMP tax paying business profit tax paying GST.

(54:40):
But when you use an overseas procurement supplier, it's one
hundred percent going directly overseas. Okay, they might get fifteen
percent GST.

Speaker 2 (54:49):
On it, but you would support I mean the counter
to this is that New Zealand companies start inefficiencies come
in with the lack of competition and the prices of
things go up, up and up. So for that really work,
you have to have a number of New Zealand manufacturers

(55:11):
competing with each other for the for the government contracts.

Speaker 22 (55:15):
Well, we used to, but the last regime set up
systems and overseas procurement suppliers usual systems to get rubber
stamp now and I can give you in a prime example,
our uniforms, New Zealand owned uniform supplier just lost the

(55:40):
police contract to an Australian supplier.

Speaker 2 (55:44):
Yeah, that sucks.

Speaker 3 (55:46):
And it doesn't make any sense.

Speaker 2 (55:47):
That should only be done, Bruce, in the most extreme
of circumstances that and there must be and this is
what they're sort of saying with wall in New Zealand
now and Winston Peters was saying that it should be
in this there's there. You know, you have to put
in a really really strong case for choosing to go. Well,

(56:09):
is the.

Speaker 22 (56:10):
NFL E NFL goods were twice the price the government
gets fifty percent back.

Speaker 2 (56:19):
Yeah, So do you think la ofication.

Speaker 22 (56:23):
The working on price, not on cost and yeah, the
massive difference between the two.

Speaker 2 (56:28):
So do you think that is because there's not a
sort of a holistic look at the situation. You've got
a department that needs to buy something and they get
the cheapest price because that keeps within their budget as
opposed to a look it across the entire economy and
how it affects things outside of just their area of interest.

Speaker 22 (56:48):
No, it's the way the charter is written, the Government
procurement Charter. They don't give bias to New Zealand companies.
They have to treat international and New Zealand procurement suppliers
exactly the same.

Speaker 6 (57:05):
Have they have?

Speaker 3 (57:06):
They not changed that though recently that Bruce made song.

Speaker 22 (57:09):
Actually, you know, Nickolawith Willis had a.

Speaker 3 (57:13):
She had to stand up about it and media release.

Speaker 22 (57:16):
It was closed off last night at five pm, right,
you know, you could put a submission in about changing
the charter and that was only that was closed yesterday.

Speaker 3 (57:26):
Right, gotcha? Okay, so they're still working through that.

Speaker 22 (57:29):
So they're working through it. But it's that's why I'm
loving MPs. You know, we have to get government spending.

Speaker 2 (57:39):
Here.

Speaker 22 (57:40):
If people talk about this global economy, I hate free trade, yes, trade,
definitely trade, but all we've done is made ourselves deeper
in debt than we ever have been.

Speaker 2 (57:51):
Yeah, and thank you so much for your call, Bruce.

Speaker 4 (57:54):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (57:55):
We'll just take a break and we come back. I'll
apologize for mispronouncing the name of the road come company
I was talking about.

Speaker 1 (58:00):
All right, it's twenty seven paths too, Matt Heathen Tyler
Adams afternoons call oh eight hundred and eighty ten eighty
on News Talk ZB.

Speaker 3 (58:12):
It is twenty nine past two. Couple of texts before
we get to the headlines, guys. I create a product
called quad Sense by by Vonk dot Com. It is
in New Zealand developed milking cup censor that can detect infections.
It is leaning and that is the sort of thing
we need to do in this country.

Speaker 2 (58:32):
Brilliant. Good on you the Trekker. Aside, we did make
some quality items in New Zealand the past. I still
have a toasty pie machine made by Dido Engineering the seventies,
and I still drive a land Rover made and Nelson
over forty years ago and still going strong and confident
they will still be functioning long after I'm gone. That's
from Henry. The last time, the last assembly plants in
New Zealand, I think the last one was the Mitsubishi

(58:54):
one that closed in nineteen ninety eight, But we did
used to assemble vehicles here in New Zealand, so I forget.
But yeah, the Trekker has often used an example of
us not necessarily doing the best manufacturing. That was sort
of a weird looking vehicle, looked a bit like a
milk float sitting on the on a Skoda Octovia.

Speaker 3 (59:12):
And you found all the pieces to a trek are
under a house somewhere, was that right?

Speaker 6 (59:16):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (59:16):
Yeah, did I apologize about a second? I did apologize
about saying pro Linden instead proline. Well you have now,
but yeah, so those are the great New Zealanders that
manufacture road cones and recycle road clanes.

Speaker 3 (59:27):
It's pro Line, not Prolin. Okay, all right, great discussion.
Thank you very much for everyone who gave us a buzz.
But that is where we'll leave it because after the headlines,
we do want to have a chat about fraudsters within
your business on the back of and it happens clearly
to a lot of people, but on the back of
a story about a woman who stole more than five
hundred thousand dollars from an Auckland home building company, but

(59:50):
we want to ask the question when has a trusted
employee ripped you off? And what you need to look
out for if you've gone through that, what is there
anything you can look out for if they are looking
after the accounts it can be hard. But also if
you have been convicted of doing this or you have
been someone who has been a fraud frausty yourself, we'd

(01:00:10):
love to hear from you. Oh, one hundred and eighty
ten eighty is the number to call.

Speaker 2 (01:00:12):
Twenty nine to three and my last thing on the
New Zealand mate, A lot of techs are coming through
on the subject. People that eat imported bacon yep are
perverts and they deserve to be tasted.

Speaker 14 (01:00:27):
Uce talk zby headlines with blue bubble taxis it's no
trouble with a blue bubble. The Reserve Bank has cut
the official cash rate another twenty five basis points to
three point five percent, as widely expected. Most banks are
already lowering their advertised rates. The Finance Minister is praising
a commitment to use Kiwi wool products in government new

(01:00:50):
bills and top end refurbishments. From July, Kaying Order reversed
its cost saving decision to not use more expensive wool products.
In January, Graymouth residents are being urged to boil water
due to a possible contamination in the local supply. Gray
District councils as Shaw the notice for all consumers connected

(01:01:10):
to the Greater Graymouth water supply following routine water sampling.
The Prime Minister says New Zealand will continue to ask
the US whether imposing ten percent tariffs is fair. A
teacher is on paid leave from Auckland's Kingsway Christian School
near Silverdale as police investigate allegations of assault relating to

(01:01:32):
disciplinary practices, pink pineapples, cancer and farming. Liberal new genetic
laws on the way for New Zealand. You can find
out more at ends a Herald premium back now to
matt Ethan Tyner Adams.

Speaker 3 (01:01:45):
Thank you very much, Rayleen, and we want to talk
about fraud within a business. This is on the bank
of a story in the Herald today. In just fourteen months,
Liz Donahue stole more than five hundred thousand dollars from
an Auckland home building company. The owner is still finding
evidence of suspected fraud, such as a cruise he believes
she booked at his expense.

Speaker 2 (01:02:03):
Wow, there's one thing to steal from a company. It's
another thing to steal from a company for a cruise ship,
for a luxury cruise. What position in the company was she? Tyler?

Speaker 3 (01:02:16):
So she was obviously a key member of this Auckland
home building company and she was clearly looking after the
books in this particular organization and five hundred thousand dollars
over fourteen months, because that was initially the question that
we had as well, I had is how does that not?
How does that go unnoticed? Five hundred thousand dollars over
fourteen months? But I suppose if you're looking after the box.

Speaker 2 (01:02:38):
Well, yeah, that's the thing. It's often the people looking
after the box. I'm not sure one hundred scent sure
you said, didn't seem a hundred scent sure what she
did there?

Speaker 3 (01:02:44):
But this, well, she was an office administrator, so that
seems to me that she was involved in some sort
of accounting.

Speaker 2 (01:02:50):
Ah right, yeah, officer ed office administrators and generally the
greatest New Zealanders of all. But anyway, by the bye,
this seems to happen every week. Every week you hear
a story of someone working in a company pulfering money
from the company with their hand in the tilted to
hugh amounts of money, shocking amounts of money. It's happened

(01:03:10):
so many times. I just I just can't quite get
my head around how it happens. And I think if
someone's in charge of accounts, you just put them in
charge of accounts and you're like, Okay, the accounts are sorted,
and so you never look at it again. You go
on about your work. You're working hard, you're doing whatever

(01:03:31):
your company does. It doesn't seem to be going as
well as you would like, but the accounts are being done,
so everything's above board, the tax is being paid, and
then you find out that that person is stealing your money.
So how do you you know it has this happened
to you? Eight hundred and eighty ten eighty And what
are the signs that you missed when it was happening
to happening to you? And what are the signs you

(01:03:53):
should look up out for in a company that maybe
a bunch of money is going missing, Because this doesn't
sound like the biggest company in the world, but five
hundred thousand dollars has gone in fourteen months, and you know,
so it has this happened to you, but also have
you done it. I would love to hear from someone
on eight hundred and eighty ten eighty or the text
machine ninety two nine two who has ripped off their

(01:04:16):
company and maybe feels guilty about it and wants to
talk about it. You can do it anonymously. I mean,
if this is in the past, how it happened, how
it spiraled out of control to five hundred thousand dollars.
And I know gambling is often involved in the situation,
and people think that if I just keep stealing a
little bit more money, I'll win it back. Eventually I
win it back. Eventually it goes more and more of

(01:04:36):
the people with meth addictions that that maybe the work
doesn't know about or drug addictions, but it just keeps
happening and happening. So yeah, what are the signs?

Speaker 3 (01:04:47):
Yep, Love to hear from you. Eight hundred eighty ten
eighty is the number to call Love to hear your stories.
It is twenty two to three.

Speaker 1 (01:04:56):
Your home of afternoon Talk Mad Heathen Taylor Adams. Afternoons
call eight hundred eighty ten eighty News Talks.

Speaker 3 (01:05:03):
They'd be good afternoon. It is nineteen to three, and
we're talking about fraud within New Zealand. Business is on
the bank of a story about a woman who ripped
off five hundred thousand dollars from an Auckland home building company.
The company went under after that particular fraud. It was
done over fourteen months. But we're keen to hear your
stories about trusting the wrong person in your organization.

Speaker 2 (01:05:22):
Yeah, and how do you deal with this in a company?
This text here says check it's simple who checks the checkers?
But I guess when you hire and you know people
to run your accounts, you think that you've ticked that box.
They are the people that are checking on your accounts.
And then if you're spending all day checking on them,
then you're not going to get your stuff done. And
you can imagine people just working so hard in the

(01:05:46):
area they work in selling whatever they're doing, Yeah, they
don't have necessarily the time or the know how to
check what's going on.

Speaker 3 (01:05:53):
So it's effectively needing an accountant for your accountant. But
then how do you trust that senior accountant who's overseeing
your accountant.

Speaker 2 (01:05:59):
Well, the study was a little bit old from twenty
fifteen found that seventy five percent of three quarters, just
under seventy five percent of those that committed embezzlement and
when companies were people that held finance and accounting positions,
and the average age was forty seven point nine.

Speaker 3 (01:06:17):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:06:17):
So if you've got someone in their mid forties, just
constantly look over their shoulder. Ellen, you've got some key
markers for fraudsters.

Speaker 23 (01:06:27):
Well yeah, yeah, one of them. One of the key
markers or anybody any organization is the holiday And it's
not just to take.

Speaker 3 (01:06:39):
Ellen, Ellen, Sorry, just told there. We really we're keen
to have a chat with you, but we're just struggling
to hear a little bit, so it sounds like you're
on a speakerphone. We might just put you back to
Andrew and see if we can get your off just
because we're struggling to hear a bit. We'll come back.

Speaker 2 (01:06:54):
I think I heard what he said there. We'll get
back to when he said one of the key markers
is holidaying. Did you say did you say, Allen? Sorry,
I think I think you're back. Now you think you've
got a good line?

Speaker 24 (01:07:03):
Now?

Speaker 2 (01:07:04):
Oh, there we go better. Oh that's beautiful.

Speaker 21 (01:07:07):
One of the keys for any organization is when they
take holidays, and it's not just that's not taking one
or two days. They should ensure that everybody in those
sorts of positions actually takes whole weeks, a week to
a fortnite. Usually a fortnite is the best time. And
that's when things start showing up that things aren't right

(01:07:29):
because somebody else has taken over the position mile their
way and they can pick up that things are not right.

Speaker 2 (01:07:37):
So you're saying that, Ellen, that people that are committing
fraud are reluctant to take holidays because someone else says to.

Speaker 21 (01:07:43):
Their job exactly. And possibly in the case of that
that woman, I don't know. I don't know the situation
or or the surrounding circumstances, but I would suspect that
she's accumulated holiday leave to over a long period of
time and possibly over a year or more, that she
hasn't taken any holidays at all, or on the pretense

(01:08:03):
of trying to cover the tracks and pay for a
track as well.

Speaker 2 (01:08:10):
How do you you know? So in a smaller company
like that, you might have the person that does the
accounts and they just do the accounts and when they're
on holiday, the accounts don't necessarily get done. They set
up a bunch of direct credits. Well they're away, Is
there any other any other ways? Because a lot of
people don't have the time to be constantly going through
the books as well. That's why they've hired someone.

Speaker 21 (01:08:31):
And that's and usually if they've taken if they if
they haven't taken there a lot of holiday lead over
the course of the year or more, then that sort
of starts ringing alarm bells. That's why a lot of
companies don't like people. One one reason why they don't
like people accumulating holiday lead is that it's a key

(01:08:52):
marker that that you know, they should be taking one,
they should be taking holiday leave. But and of course
the text implications as well around the holiday lead itself.
But then it's got to start looking at what the
job function is and things like that.

Speaker 2 (01:09:08):
When you you know, when you were working in this
in the banking sector and you saw a bit of
this fraud. You know, the study I'm just looking at
from twenty fifteen discovered that the average age was forty
seven point nine. Is it older employees that tend to
in your experience, tend to.

Speaker 19 (01:09:25):
Have them.

Speaker 5 (01:09:27):
It's at all age groups.

Speaker 21 (01:09:29):
Really there was no There was the younger ones who
were possibly new to the organization and you know, the
easter fingers in the till at the time, and they
were they were picked up pretty quickly. But usually the
ones in the back office functions when they hadn't as
a game, when they their role had been sort of
temporarily filled while they were and they leave, that's when

(01:09:50):
things got picked up. I wonderful, and you know, and
they weren't large amounts here. There were small amounts and
accumulately over time it works in theer thousands of dollars.

Speaker 2 (01:10:00):
Yeah, so I guess it starts and then it becomes easy.
It's a very easy way to make money. I remember
a guy that used to work in a food court
and here was my flatmate and he was just taking
I can't remember how he did it, but he was
just bringing him home so much money. And I asked
him one day and he had just been working at

(01:10:22):
that place for a while and he just had a
scam where he just took home a lot of money
every day and he was taking more money every day
than he was earning by working there. And I guess
when you start doing that. If you have that little
dishonesty to come in, then it's hard to stop you come.
I guess you've become dependent on the increased spending power
you get.

Speaker 5 (01:10:42):
Yeah, and like you say, a lot of it.

Speaker 21 (01:10:44):
Sometimes in the case, the one we looked at was
the guy had an addiction with horse racing. And you know,
again it was only small amounts each day, it was
sometimes less than five dollars, but it just accumulated over time.
And when we looked at it, yeah, there were only
small amounts, but over a lot of different circumstances that

(01:11:05):
amount increased increased increases, and over time. You know, we
were looking at quite a lot sum of money.

Speaker 2 (01:11:12):
I wonder if the you know, this study that's found
it wasn't your experience, but found out that it's often
older people that are doing the major and bizzling. I
wonder if that's because you've been in the company for
a very long period of time. You know the systems,
you're you're trusted in a way that junior staff aren't.
You become sort of the authority on what's going.

Speaker 21 (01:11:33):
On that's right, and they get comfortable and then you know,
they know that they sort of feel as though in
near indestructibility and where they go.

Speaker 2 (01:11:41):
Yeah, I just imagine I don't think I could. Must
be hard to sleep if you're a puzzling from your
company every day, because surely it's a ticking time bomb
before because at some point you have to retire and
someone's someone you's got to come along up on the bottle.

Speaker 21 (01:11:54):
Yeah, exactly, yeah, exactly yeah. And it's and usually when
people have gone have gone away and come back and
met when things are exposed and then they got to
answer all the questions to go with it.

Speaker 3 (01:12:06):
So this particular story, this woman, she stole more than
five hundred thousand, half a million and fourteen months. That
doesn't surprise you Allan she was clearly in a position
where she knew the systems like the back of her
hand and was very trusted. But that is that is
not an unusual figure.

Speaker 21 (01:12:23):
No, no, that's not no usual figure. It's a large figure,
but it's not an unusual amount. But you know, you
probably find these, you know, where's fees attached to to
to contracts, all these percentages added to contracts that you
know when things are on sold, you know, all those

(01:12:44):
sorts of things that they can get their hands on
you know, they can get directed in different directions to
where they shouldn't we Well.

Speaker 2 (01:12:50):
Thank you so much for your insights, Alan, It's very interesting. Yeah,
some Texas see you know, it's happening all the time.
I was saying. A woman got sentenced in christ Church
just last month for stealing eight hundred and fifty thousand
dollars from the contracting firm she worked for.

Speaker 3 (01:13:06):
Yeah, so that so just to give you a bit
more insight into how this particular woman who was convicted
did it. That she was in charge of the invoices
for this company and it was called custom Kit and
of course being involved in the invoices, she dictated where
those invoices were paid to. So she invented more than
fifty supplier invoices all that were paid into her account.

(01:13:29):
And these supplier invoices, because it was a building company,
they were for on average forty thousand dollars a pop.

Speaker 6 (01:13:36):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:13:36):
Yeah, I mean there's a famous case that people from
Dunedin will remember. An IT specialist that was contracting to
the Ottaga Hospital and was supplying had had a person
offsite someone remember the details of it. That so was
contracting all the it work to a company that was

(01:13:56):
set up with a friend that wasn't actually doing anything.
So the it was just terribly old fashioned, but millions
of dollars. I'm not sure exactly what the figure was
going through to the point where he had himself a
very expensive yacht for this job. So you know they're invoicing.
Is obviously a sort of an area that you can
lean into if you want to be a fraudster. Hi,

(01:14:19):
the caller about fraudster is not taking holidays, is so right.
They also will stay on at work after knockoff. So
now everyone that's just a really good worker, someone that's
just really dedicated the job, I'm not going to take holidays.
They're working over time. Now everyone's pointing at the finger frauds.

Speaker 3 (01:14:35):
Oh, one hundred and eighty ten eighty is the number
to call. It's ninety three the issues that affect you
and a bit of fun along the way.

Speaker 4 (01:14:43):
Matt Heath and Taylor Adams afternoons us.

Speaker 3 (01:14:45):
Talk said be seven to three.

Speaker 2 (01:14:49):
Yeah, So that fraud I was talking about from Tago DHB,
two men who defrauded the Otago District Health Board of
almost seventeen million dollars is back in two thousand and nine.
It is believed to be the largest case of employe
for fraud and using history at the time. From two
thousand to two thousand and six they foiled one hundred
and ninety six folks invoices from the district Health Board,

(01:15:10):
totally sixteen point nine million dollars. You're stealing from You're
taking seventeen million dollars out of the district Health Board.
The damage that you did to health in Otago doing that.
Mike Swan was the guy's name. He got sentenced to
nine and a half years and a minimum non prole
or four and a half years could be out. Probably
is out and quantity serve carry Halford, so they were

(01:15:33):
just invoice. Haraford kept ten percent of the money and
forwarded the remaining ninety to Swan, who spent it on
luxury cars, boats and property. So you're driving around in
luxury cars, you had a flash boat, you've got property,
and that's all come from sucking the life out of
a district health board. How freaking evil? Can you be?

Speaker 3 (01:15:52):
Psychopathic?

Speaker 2 (01:15:53):
And because it was the IT part of the company,
the district Health Board was running terrible it because they
weren't doing the job that they said they were that
they were doing.

Speaker 3 (01:16:04):
That isn't real.

Speaker 2 (01:16:05):
That ain't cool. It ain't cool.

Speaker 3 (01:16:07):
It is straight cy path behavior. Yeah, Bob, how are you.

Speaker 15 (01:16:13):
Hey? Good?

Speaker 14 (01:16:15):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (01:16:15):
I used to work for a subthig out construction company
back in the day, and it was like a overseas developer.
So they had a project manager that was was also
from the same country and he had a gambling problem,
gambling addiction. So he was basically using company money and

(01:16:39):
flying up to Sky City Casino and blowing money, blowing
the company money up there, like sort of ten thousand
dollars at a time.

Speaker 14 (01:16:48):
And then.

Speaker 5 (01:16:51):
I thought we only sort of heard about it, you know,
just just rumors through Uster being at the site for
a while, because he's constantly doing like Friday night shouts
with just free booze and AFC and stuff for a
lot of the guys there, and just did it seemed
a bit flamboyant with cash and then at the gambling,

(01:17:12):
and then there was one funny occasion where one Friday
he did a big shout and then we'd sort of
heard that he liked to frequent brothels and things like
that now and then, and as he has quite drunk.
He's a like, put it out there, who wants to

(01:17:32):
come to the brothel or something like that, and a
couple of a couple of the keen single guys dead
the rest of us who are pretty turned off by
by it. And then he the following The funny thing
was these these couple of lads that did go with
them the following week when they got their paycheck he

(01:17:53):
had doctor paycheck.

Speaker 4 (01:17:56):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:17:57):
That that's you know, committing fraud and then being the
big man by shouting other people drinks and such and
you know other things, even though he doctor pay that's
the worst kind of frauds to write you to be caught.
You make yourself the bergman. You're so generous, but it's
not your money. I mean, it's like Bernie Madoff running
those charity dinners.

Speaker 3 (01:18:17):
And fleshy a holes.

Speaker 2 (01:18:18):
Yeah, we've got a lot of checks coming through and
a lot of calls coming through on O one hundred
and eighteen eighty Susy. We keep the subject going after
the news.

Speaker 3 (01:18:24):
Absolutely it is coming next, as well as sport and weather.

Speaker 1 (01:18:29):
Everything you need to know, news, sports, business, rural entertainment's opinion,
all in sixty minutes. It's done Now the Hour with
Matt Heath and Tyler Adams, News Talk Zivy.

Speaker 3 (01:18:43):
Welcome back into the shows. Even passed through. Great to
have your company is always and you're having a great discussion,
but a sober discussion as well about fraud within business
in New Zealand.

Speaker 2 (01:18:53):
Yeah, that's right. Hasn't happened to you? What are the signs?
Have you done it? We're talking about this this woman
who has been done for stealing five hundred thousand dollars
from her company over fourteen months. Yeah, there is accusations
she went on a cruise ship with some of the money.
Last month, another woman was done for eight hundred and

(01:19:14):
fifty thousand dollars stolen from the company. It's every week
you hear about someone that is embezzled from a company.
So what are the signs? And has it happened to you?
One hundred and eighty ten eighty Have you done it?
We haven't heard from anyone that's done it yet. Yeah,
week we can be very we're going to be very
discreet about it.

Speaker 15 (01:19:34):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (01:19:34):
And you know, maybe you've been convicted and it's over
and you've moved on, or maybe it's in your past
but it would just be good to insight as a
you know PSA, for people to know what to look
out for to protect their company.

Speaker 3 (01:19:47):
No judgment, just curiosity. Oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty
is the number to call, desiree? How are you this afternoon? Hi,
desire how are you Desiree? Sorry about they No, that's.

Speaker 7 (01:19:57):
Okay, No worries. Air company. We had an officility that
committed forward with us, and she was working for another
company at the same time, so she was double dipping
on both of us. And yeah, I know, and she
it was. It came to one hundred grand just after
but just over. But I mean the signs really are

(01:20:20):
Hers was definitely greed, not need, and she did up
her house and new car everything like that. And I
remember looking at us thinking, good, we can't afford to
do that. What's going on there? And but you know,
we let the ball down. We I was sick head operations,
et cetera, and she took over. What they do is

(01:20:41):
they zoom in and they take over. They'll go, I'll
do the account told you this year. You relax, you know,
and then they're in. They're then and then they're doing
falseome voicing and then a little stuff confront.

Speaker 2 (01:20:55):
Did you did you ever have.

Speaker 7 (01:20:59):
Our accountant?

Speaker 20 (01:21:00):
Did?

Speaker 7 (01:21:01):
He picked up? But oh we went to court. We
thought it because we didn't want to doing it to
someone else. So I'm to the other company. He had
a big trucking company, working really hard, and we got together.
So you've got to hire the forensic accountants as well.
Otherwise the police don't take it, you know, seriously. They
don't take ford seriously at all. So we got together

(01:21:24):
and the forensic accountants come in and they go. They
were great. I mean, it costs to with it, but
without them, you you know, you really are stuck when
it comes to her being charged for fraud. So they
came in and with both companies and all she got
all she got over two years. It took us two

(01:21:45):
years to get it to court. Was nine months home detention.

Speaker 9 (01:21:49):
Wow?

Speaker 4 (01:21:50):
Real?

Speaker 2 (01:21:50):
And did it? What sort of damage did it do
to your your business? Desrae?

Speaker 7 (01:21:55):
Oh I did a lot of damage. It did a
lot of damage. Like we just weren't making money. And
then her father started paying us some back, but there
was wages that she was paying us south three times
a week. Sometimes we never got we never I know.
And this is what they do.

Speaker 2 (01:22:11):
They get So did she clock did you really believe
that she could get away with it? Or was there
some kind of nihilism nihilism in it or something because
she's going to get find out.

Speaker 7 (01:22:23):
I don't think they think they are going to well
this one she was married to a policeman and and
it just all exploded. It was like air lives were
and we felt stupid, We felt really so anyhow, and
some people had said, trust, why why are you taking
it to court? And you know, we're saying so she
doesn't come and work for you. You know, she doesn't

(01:22:44):
work for the next company, and it's you're doing you
feel really stupid. You know, you don't do any of
this taken into court lightly because it's a lot of
you know, it's a lot of work.

Speaker 2 (01:22:56):
Do you find yourself are you doing things differently now?

Speaker 4 (01:23:00):
Are you? Are you just.

Speaker 7 (01:23:03):
Distrustful or absolutely yeah? And you know that whole that
whole flow of white females in their forties, she was
exactly that. They just fit that profile. And there was
someone that did it and the cargo will we are
straight after her and they fit that profile. You sit
in court and you look at them and that's you know,

(01:23:24):
that's what.

Speaker 3 (01:23:25):
They look like, because do you desiree was looking like
someone who was a hard worker, who was invested in
the company, wear it all along and thank god for
this accountant. She was just there to rip you off.

Speaker 7 (01:23:36):
Yeah, she was there to rip us after and the
other the other firm as well. Exactly him as well,
you know, and he was a lot bigger than us,
you know.

Speaker 2 (01:23:45):
And you've got the idea how much she nicked from
the other firm.

Speaker 7 (01:23:49):
Oh, I wouldn't like to say.

Speaker 3 (01:23:52):
Yeah, probably about the same nine months. Home detention though
was a joke, and you know, it was a joke.

Speaker 2 (01:24:00):
What I find really amazing is we're hearing a lot
of these stories coming through the text machine and on
the phones, and they don't seem to hide it. Very
they don't try and hide it. There's there's renovations, there's cars,
there's there's flash holidays, and you know, if you're employing someone,
you know how much they should be getting paid. And
if they're turning up and a pleasure car that you drive.

Speaker 7 (01:24:22):
Exacutly what you guys, Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right. But
they do slip up because they start unknowingly they start
to show it off a bit.

Speaker 5 (01:24:30):
Yeah, and you know they do.

Speaker 7 (01:24:32):
They start off slowly taking away bit, taking away bit,
and then they get bigger and bigger and and they
just look on you like you stupid, and you do
feel stupid, you do. It's embarrassing and it's but anyway, anyway,
so it was.

Speaker 2 (01:24:45):
Well, I'm sorry that no one else employs it. I'm
sorry that happened to you, But good on you for
going to the extra effort to make sure that you
took it to court to stop it having to other people.
So you obviously a good person.

Speaker 7 (01:24:55):
And yeah, I think to anyone else out there that
I think you do have to get those three intif
accountants then, you know, because they go into the background
of every time and you really have to push to
the police as well. You know, it's not good enough.
So I mean, good luck to anybody.

Speaker 3 (01:25:13):
Tepp me to out there.

Speaker 2 (01:25:14):
Final question and Ellen before, who's dealt with a lot
of this in the past. He said to us that
these employees often that are stealing, often don't take holidays
and often work after our Yeah, was that the case.

Speaker 7 (01:25:27):
Yeah, Yeah, they they don't take holidays and they don't
let anyone else do their job. They actually what they
do as they organize it so that they are doing
that particular job and if I went in to do it,
I wouldn't know how to do it.

Speaker 2 (01:25:41):
Yeah, so they're the hero, but they're the villain. But
they're pretending to be the hero.

Speaker 15 (01:25:45):
Yeah, that's exactly what they do.

Speaker 7 (01:25:47):
And honestly it's the one you least expect.

Speaker 3 (01:25:51):
It really is Macavelian. And good on you, Desirae for
going through with taking her to court and getting that prosecution,
because hopefully she will never get a job again. One
hundred and eighteen eighty is a number to call.

Speaker 2 (01:26:04):
Yeah, we're talking about fraud and busment. Has it happened
to you? What are the lies? Have you done it
to yourself? All right, I'm not holding out much hope
we're going to get a call from someone to start it.
But maybe we're here if you want to happen yet,
we won't tell anyone.

Speaker 3 (01:26:21):
It is a seventeen past three and we're talking about
fraud within your own business. Or if you have committed
fraud yourself, you've done your time, you've served it, you've
learnt from your mistakes.

Speaker 15 (01:26:31):
Can you hear from you?

Speaker 4 (01:26:31):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (01:26:31):
One hundred and eighty ten eighty.

Speaker 2 (01:26:32):
A lot of people wanted to know from Disree whether
the woman paid the money back. If you're still listening
to Disreel seen it through. But I think what she
said that if father paid some of it back, but
she just got home attention. So I don't think. I
don't think they got much of it back at all,
because it's all gone. That's the thing.

Speaker 4 (01:26:49):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (01:26:50):
You know, hey, Matt, as it possible some of these
embezzlers are incarcerated that's unable to communicate. Well, I don't
know that that person stole one hundred thousand from one
person and another from more and ended up with nine
months home detention. So you know, they could ring in.
They wanted to Chris, Welcome to the show. You got
ripped off to the tune of one point eight million.

Speaker 15 (01:27:10):
Yeah, wow, yeah, yeah, I didn't even know what was happening, mate,
I it was pretty I guess it was pretty good
what she did or not. It wasn't, but you know
what I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:27:24):
So, was this within your company that you own and ran?

Speaker 6 (01:27:28):
Yeah?

Speaker 15 (01:27:29):
Yeah, now it's it was liquidated at twenty one because
of this, because of the because of the debt.

Speaker 4 (01:27:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:27:36):
Wow, So to tell us, tell us how this all happened, Chris.

Speaker 15 (01:27:41):
So, she was working for me for I had that
business for thirteen years. After six years I had it,
I hope my account because he was going to retire.
I just had him check everything out. I go through
it because he was previously reported by the Idea as
a friends and investigator. So he checked it all out
for me and everything was good. So she was with

(01:28:04):
me from probably the second year that I had my
business and was four years later. And I got it
all checked out, not because I was suspicious of anything,
just because I wanted to make sure before he retired.
I did that, and it turned out from next day
on until she got caught she was even money off me.

(01:28:26):
She knew that she wouldn't be able to do it
and get it a part of some while he was
my accountant, but as soon as he wasn't my accountant,
she she actually so I had I was a mechanical business.
She made sure that all my accounts were always paid.

Speaker 2 (01:28:41):
Apart from the i D, apart from the IOD, apart
from the i D. Yeah, and and the and the
the money that would go to the i D. She
took for herself.

Speaker 3 (01:28:52):
Yeah, yeah, wow, how does she How does she expect.

Speaker 2 (01:28:56):
To get away with it? This is what I keep thinking.
Eventually someone's gonna going to find out.

Speaker 21 (01:29:00):
It just seems so so absolutely she did that for
six years.

Speaker 17 (01:29:07):
Real and so.

Speaker 4 (01:29:08):
So what she did was.

Speaker 15 (01:29:11):
She set up my email address and everything, so she
knew because I'm not an electronics person. I'm sixty two now,
I was in my fifties when I opened that business,
just but I never grew up with electronics, you know
what I mean, So computers and all that sort of thing.
I was out on the floor fixing trucks and making

(01:29:34):
sure that my employees were doing what they were meant
to be doing and all that. So I was running
my business in that way. So she set up my
email and everything, and she set up the password. So
when the idea was emailing me to ask me why
my tax wasn't paid because it hadn't been paid for
six years, remember when my account was doing it, or

(01:29:57):
when she was doing my account was making sure that
it was done. So in the next six years, she
told them that I was unapproachable pretty much be able
to check my emails that were coming through from the
ID and delete them before I oversaw them.

Speaker 2 (01:30:13):
Wow, that's that's pure evil. I'm so sorry this happened
to you, Chris. Was the ID understanding in any way
that this had been a scam that was paid on
you and that you had every intention for the taxes
to be paid but they were being siphoned off you
before they got to them. Did they take that into account?

Speaker 15 (01:30:33):
They were pretty good about to be fair, they so
they're not. They're not prosecuting me and any work they performed.
I don't think they're prosecuting anyone. I think it's probably
up to the Creidatas, and I think the Creidatas are
taking it further. But one of the main problems I
have is that the police wouldn't do anything about it.
They wanted us to investigate what she had done because

(01:30:54):
they don't have the time.

Speaker 6 (01:30:55):
Yeah, which was a bit of an eye opener for me.

Speaker 15 (01:30:59):
I thought that they would be into these sort of
things to make sure that they stopped.

Speaker 3 (01:31:03):
So did you have to employ your own forensic accountant?

Speaker 5 (01:31:06):
Did you so?

Speaker 15 (01:31:08):
My accountant he came back. He came back after this
all happened, right, and he helped me out quite a lot.
But also liquidators. They because she liked to them. When
the place went into liquidation, she told that liquidors I
was running broats from KA trucks as well, from christ

(01:31:29):
Church to Aukerman back. So they took her side on
all this until they she got convicted two more times
between twenty one and now for other people about one
hundred and eighty thousand dollars.

Speaker 4 (01:31:42):
Jeez.

Speaker 2 (01:31:44):
And so just to go abauck one steps, Chris, what
alerted you to do it was that your accountant coming
back and you know you came to trust me. The
accountant coming back in and having a look. Is that
what alluded to you? Was there something else that that
you noticed that made you start investigating and get the
other the accountant to come of.

Speaker 15 (01:32:02):
A look, No, the liquidors, right, they put me into predation.
So a customer of mine read this and the gazette
his younger and asked me, why was it possible of liquidation?
I told him he was shocking because he hadn't been paid,
that's right, steading is So he rang me and asked me,

(01:32:24):
you know, do you know you're in the He's young
gazette corp.

Speaker 2 (01:32:27):
So you didn't even know you were in liquidation.

Speaker 15 (01:32:30):
No, no, So I rang the I D because they
were the ones that were in the gazette, and I
asked him what was going on and they told me
that that what what had happened, and they didn't tell
me the mountain. I said to them, what, I could
probably sell a couple of my trucks and perhaps we
could bring the dead up to date. And they said
to me, well, it's one point eight million dollars. Well,

(01:32:52):
there's no way that my trucks are going to harm
us and bring that sort of money.

Speaker 2 (01:32:58):
And how did you You must have been You must
have been so angry.

Speaker 19 (01:33:03):
I was.

Speaker 6 (01:33:03):
I was, I was standing mate. You know, it's just.

Speaker 15 (01:33:08):
It stuffed my life faith.

Speaker 6 (01:33:10):
Really, yeah, it's happened.

Speaker 2 (01:33:14):
I can't No, you can't change you can't change the past.
But did you get to confront her at all? Did
she did you?

Speaker 4 (01:33:22):
Ever?

Speaker 15 (01:33:23):
When after I talked to the Idea and I saw
it was going half in my ear disconnect my company
phone that she had, and I've never seen her from
that day to this.

Speaker 4 (01:33:33):
Do you know she's in jail.

Speaker 15 (01:33:35):
That's right, she's in jail.

Speaker 2 (01:33:36):
Now, she's in jail. Well that's something other people, Well
at least that's some some solace that she's not doing
it to anyone else. I guess some sort of small
solace fue.

Speaker 3 (01:33:46):
But the amount of failings in the system, Chris, that
happened to you blows my mind. I mean, that is
terrible that that you were let down not just by
this this scammer and this horrible woman, but by the
system as well.

Speaker 15 (01:33:57):
It sounds like yeah, so so I asked the idea
about about why they didn't get in contact with me
after six years have known that what texts were always paid? Yeah,
when it started to go wrong, Well, they didn't get
in touch with me. Well, they said to me, and
this is what I said before they sent me many
emails to ask me what was going on. It didn't

(01:34:19):
get in touch with me because she had told them
that I was not contacted all my phone.

Speaker 6 (01:34:24):
It was a bit of an.

Speaker 15 (01:34:27):
I would have thought they would have.

Speaker 2 (01:34:28):
I thought they'd be more more. I thought they'd be
more voracious with their trying to get hold of you.
They seemed to be pretty good at getting hold of
other people. So she was just running full full because
that because they knew she wasn't responding to them as
you she was responding to them as on behalf of you?

Speaker 4 (01:34:47):
Is that correct?

Speaker 2 (01:34:49):
All right, well, I'm so sorry that happened to you.
To you, Chris, and yeah, it sounds like that you're
you're managed somehow to have a philosophical approach to it.
So I applaud that. But yeah, what an what an
evil person?

Speaker 6 (01:35:04):
Yeah?

Speaker 15 (01:35:04):
Really? And like one day I can't tell you a
few things about this because it's still in the process.

Speaker 6 (01:35:10):
Off hopefully get into court.

Speaker 15 (01:35:12):
Yeah yeah, so one day when we have a result
out of this back and I'll tell you a couple
of other things about it.

Speaker 2 (01:35:18):
I would appreciate that, Chris, and all the best, and
thank you so much for sharing.

Speaker 3 (01:35:21):
His story got too far out, I mean at one.

Speaker 2 (01:35:26):
Point eight million, but that's as I said to him,
it's like she's gonna be caught at some point because
you can't hide from the ID. That's that's that's one
group that book just keep coming and coming. But they
weren't sending any letters that you know, it was it
was completely by email.

Speaker 3 (01:35:46):
Again, I mean, so many failings that happened to Cress
outside of that evil woman that the you know, the
IID obviously not going a little bit further and thankfully
it appeared that they were taken into account that he
had been ripped off. But then to have your liquidation
notice in the gazette and not be told about that
until someone reads that that is crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:36:04):
In two thousand and nine, a total on a woman
stole over one hundred and fifty five thousand dollars from Plunket.
So these people stealing from charities and yeah, it's shocking.
So there was a study that was done in twenty
fifteen and it found out the average age was forty

(01:36:24):
seven point nine of people embezzling from companies and that
it is a seventy seventy five percent of female.

Speaker 3 (01:36:32):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:36:33):
But men, if they're embezzling, steal more.

Speaker 3 (01:36:36):
Yeah, so they ain't come off looking that good either. Right,
We're going to take a quick break, but we'll come
back with some more of your text messages. It is
twenty seven bars three.

Speaker 1 (01:36:48):
Matt Heathen, Tyler Adams afternoons call oh eight hundred eighty
ten eighty on youth Talk ZB twenty nine past three.

Speaker 2 (01:36:56):
So we're finishing up on this topic on fraud and
embezment from companies. This text here just to finish up messy.
UNI offers papers that study fraud I did at last
semester and we were taught that the only way fraud
has found out is if the person committing the fraud
goes on leave and the person covering them discovers the fraud.
This other person said, if people don't go on holiday,

(01:37:18):
then you don't find you regard ripping off people. No, no,
don't know where it's the one of somehow, this one's
been delested. But the goal, the gist of it was,
you may not just find fraud, but if they go
on holiday, you can see inefficiencies come through as well.
So that person that's always been that the absolute martyr,

(01:37:38):
never taking holidays, working late, they may not be the
hero that they pretend to be. They may be the villain.

Speaker 3 (01:37:45):
That is incredibly tough, though, wasn't it, Because undoubtedly there
are hard working people out there. They care about your
company and they don't want to take a break because
of that. But then obviously some of them are.

Speaker 2 (01:37:54):
Fraud if they haven't. If you look around the office,
if someone hasn't taken a holiday in the last six months,
call the cops.

Speaker 3 (01:38:02):
There has been a great discussion, very insightful and sobering
as well. But thank you very much to everyone who
gave us a buzz. All right, coming up very shortly,
Mark Vitti is a world renowned animal behaviorist, dog trainer, educator.
He's been working with animals for over forty years. So
if you've got a question for Mark now, as your
opportunity is. It is a very very popular segment. Oh
eight hundred and eighty ten eighty, got a problem with

(01:38:23):
your pet? He is the man to chat too, and
he is coming up next. It is twenty nine past
two four.

Speaker 4 (01:38:33):
You talk said the headlines.

Speaker 14 (01:38:35):
With blue bubble taxis It's no trouble with a blue bubble.
The Reserve banks cut the ocr another twenty five basis
points this afternoon to three point five percent, with most
banks already lowering home loan rates. The Finance Minister says
repayments on a five hundred thousand dollars market will have
now dropped three hundred dollars a fortnight since August. Emergency

(01:38:58):
services are responding to a fire in a second floor
apartment on Karanga Haape Road in central Auckland. Cruise were
called just after two A person in in a single
car crash near Hamilton's Horsham Downs on March twenty eight,
has died. Police want to hear from the driver of
a maroon suv towing a boat on Banker Road about

(01:39:20):
twenty past seven that night, Green z and P Benjamin
Doyle is addressing media after staying away from Parliament because
of threats received. It followed revelations of sexually suggestive language
used in their private social media posts dating from before
being an MP.

Speaker 3 (01:39:38):
Richard Preble on how.

Speaker 14 (01:39:39):
New Zealand's fiscal policies leave us exposed to trade shops.

Speaker 2 (01:39:43):
You can read the full column at Enzaid Herald Premium.

Speaker 14 (01:39:46):
Now back to matt Ethan Tyler Adams.

Speaker 3 (01:39:49):
Thank you very much, Raylean and as part of our
USS the Experts series, as we do every Wednesday, we
are joined once again by Mark Vetti. He is a
world renowned animal behaviorist, dog trainer and educator who's been
working with animals for over forty years. He's a trained
animal psychologist and has created the Dogs in In online
training program. Mark Vetti joins us once again. Mark good, afternoon,

(01:40:11):
Yeah and Tyler.

Speaker 2 (01:40:12):
How bloody good. Let's start off with a simple one.
My chocolate lab eats duck poo when we walk by
a nearby the nearby lake. Is that okay, thanks Liz.

Speaker 6 (01:40:23):
Actually funny enough.

Speaker 25 (01:40:23):
But I mean there there is a few infections that
birds obviously can transmit now, including salmonella. But but yeah,
as a general rual dog with scavengers and and they've
got a pretty discussed wrong, you know, digestive system, so
it's probably not a big deal.

Speaker 6 (01:40:41):
But if you can teach them a leave it command,
then do it.

Speaker 2 (01:40:44):
Yeah. My friend was working on a show and by
a lake and got terrible salmonella just from duck poo,
so it's not great for humans. I don't know if
he was eating it.

Speaker 3 (01:40:55):
Well, that was my next I should have been the
first thing. Right now, if you get exactly if you've
got a question for Marco eight hundred and eighty teen eighty,
the lines are fall at the moment, but keep trying
and hopefully you will get through prove.

Speaker 2 (01:41:09):
Have you got a question for Mark?

Speaker 15 (01:41:11):
Oh?

Speaker 26 (01:41:11):
Hi, Yes, I we've got a GSP. She's about two
and a half and she just gets really growley, mainly
with men at kind of unknown times, and she she
hasn't she did jump at a guy yesterday, but she's
she's never like Vitten anyone or anything. And I just

(01:41:33):
my question kind of is, normally I'll really browl her
and really really tell her off and remove her from
the situation, like put her outside or something like that.
Is that the best way to deal with it or
is it something else?

Speaker 25 (01:41:47):
Yeah, I mean it's certainly it's something that you you know,
you reprimand when it happens, you know, tell her off.
But really it's it's not something that's going to change
just by doing that. So I teach a meat and
Greek technique with a clicker, and so what I'm doing
is teach teaching nicely command and I teach them a
touch target to someone's hands. So I do that first

(01:42:08):
toward her, and I do it to family member. So
I teach her to touch your nose to the hand
of the person, and I click and reward her for
socializing and keep her on lead.

Speaker 6 (01:42:17):
I normally have them on a nylon slip. Just go
a bit more control, and I've got my clicking reward.

Speaker 25 (01:42:23):
Because what you've got to do is reshape that behavior,
because you know she's being protective in that situation.

Speaker 6 (01:42:28):
She's either resource guarding you or treating you you know
in a territorial way. She might do it more at
home and around the car.

Speaker 25 (01:42:36):
So click on, you click on rewarding pro social behavior,
and you're firm on and saying no and leave it
if she shows any growling behavior. And with the click
of what you do is you're keeping your own learning
state and so it's the most effective tool to shape
that behavior. You know, I've got that online if you
need to have a look at how to do that.

(01:42:56):
But it's important to make sure you take that care.

Speaker 6 (01:42:59):
For me.

Speaker 25 (01:43:00):
If you've got a human orienty aggression case, sometimes we'll
just give me a tingle and doing a virtual consolet
if you think.

Speaker 6 (01:43:06):
There's risks attached and set these. Sometimes we'll use a muzzle.

Speaker 4 (01:43:09):
Yeah, do you go?

Speaker 2 (01:43:11):
Do you go through? We've got penny here. You've got
a spitting el pecker.

Speaker 27 (01:43:17):
I've got three old packers. They all come running up
when they want their but one them is a boy.
He always keeps his ears back and he spits at me.
Doesn't necessarily the.

Speaker 3 (01:43:29):
Others getting a naught.

Speaker 6 (01:43:36):
Yeah, that doesn't work well.

Speaker 25 (01:43:41):
As you know with ol packers and lambers that that
is a threat to display, you know, when they're they're
spinning at you. You know, that's turning you off from
there in their language. What I normally do, and I
do the same with horses and donkeys, is you heard
me talk about clicker training with dogs. Well, I click
a training all of my animals, including olt packers and lambas,
and and someone to teach them as I teach them

(01:44:04):
to touch a ball on a stick, which is you know,
I touched target. So the first thing I do with
that our packer, keep him separate, work him independently. So
just either put him, put him on his holder and
time up, or put him in a small area and
I teach him to touch that target with his nose
and I click and reward him, and I reward him

(01:44:25):
with whatever it is, sweet feet or whatever he particularly likes.
So I have a little pouch made it with that
in it, and as soon as he touched it, I
click and then deliver a high value to reward to him.
And once I've got him on the touch target and
he's not looking to threaten you, you know, first of all,
you've then got him looking to you for attention and
for direction, and from there I can move him around

(01:44:46):
with the touch target. But most importantly, engaging him will
stop the threat display that he's doing. So, yeah, touch, target,
click a training. That's the trick for that type of thing, Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:44:57):
And and if that doesn't work, just suck up a
big loogie and spit.

Speaker 6 (01:45:04):
On fire.

Speaker 3 (01:45:05):
Yeah, thank you very much for hundred eighty is the
number to call if you've got a question for Mark?

Speaker 24 (01:45:11):
Now?

Speaker 3 (01:45:11):
Is your opportunity beg very shortly? It is twenty to.

Speaker 1 (01:45:14):
Four the issues that affect you and a bit of
fun along the way. Matt Heath and Tyler Adams Afternoons News.

Speaker 3 (01:45:22):
Talks be afternoon and we have Mark Vetti. He is
a world renowned animal behavior as dog trainer and educator.
He joins us once again for our Us the Experts series. Mark,
thanks very much again for your time. My Bitter Pen,
you're on with Mark.

Speaker 28 (01:45:40):
Hi, Mark, we have a one year old?

Speaker 3 (01:45:44):
Hello, Hi Pen?

Speaker 6 (01:45:46):
Do you go for it?

Speaker 12 (01:45:47):
Oh?

Speaker 4 (01:45:47):
Hi?

Speaker 28 (01:45:48):
We're got a one year old Stephie who's lovely, friendly,
lovely with the cares and us. But the only person
in the house I can walk her is my husband
because she gets over excited when we come across other
dogs and starts to she greets them heavily friendly, has
to play, and then when it's time to go, she
won't go jus at the league, fits and snarls and

(01:46:11):
turns into a bit of a sheep devil. So my
husband can handle her, but I'm kind of too scared to,
you know, go near and snapping.

Speaker 15 (01:46:18):
George, you've got any advice for us?

Speaker 25 (01:46:21):
Yeah, So when you see she's snapping at you, she's
not actually fighting or threatening the other dogs.

Speaker 6 (01:46:25):
It's that you just didn't want to leave the situation,
is that it?

Speaker 15 (01:46:29):
Yeah?

Speaker 25 (01:46:30):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so important with it with it with
your dog at a one year old, they're they're teenagers
at that stage, and you know teenagehood goes from about
five months to eighteen months, and so they're very much
in a in.

Speaker 6 (01:46:46):
An interactive phase with other dogs and people.

Speaker 25 (01:46:48):
If they're really social, good only for having them social
to people and dogs it's the critical issue.

Speaker 6 (01:46:54):
And now it's just really that's really just a control issue.

Speaker 25 (01:46:58):
You'll see, you know, in my schools, I teach them
you can clicker training and what it called contrast training,
and so those are just all simple training.

Speaker 6 (01:47:09):
Jobs that that won't be difficult to solve. So get
her on the clicker. I use said. The clicker is
the past this.

Speaker 25 (01:47:16):
Way to retrain a dog because you're reshaping that behavior
because she hasn't learned the right behavior, so it's quite easy.

Speaker 6 (01:47:24):
They're normally really good on the clicker.

Speaker 25 (01:47:25):
The Staffe's they are a very highly aroused dog. They
have a trait called gaminess in the bull terriers, which
means they're kind of a bit over the top when
they are when they react. But particularly I want you
to work on the joining up technique. If you get
into my work and have a look your sea. What
are called joining up? She needs to join up really

(01:47:46):
well with you in particular, and the kids, your husband
is not going to have so much trouble. Get her
on the clicker, and you want a good recall and
be able to walk her off away from other dogs,
which you practice in low arousal situations and then start
to generalize into a situation in the park where of
course everything's up a few notches in terms of hyper

(01:48:07):
arousal pain.

Speaker 3 (01:48:09):
All the best in Steffy's Our Beautiful Dogs, Peter, how
are you hey?

Speaker 24 (01:48:14):
Boys?

Speaker 6 (01:48:15):
Hey?

Speaker 24 (01:48:15):
Mark, you got a nine year old I got a
nine year old chop lab. She's got plates and pins
and both front legs from when she was one. So
the arthritis has come on a bit. We're used the
arter Rider's treatment, you know, the injection once a month's treatment. Yes,

(01:48:37):
but it doesn't seem to be much relieved. When when
do you think it's the right time to make that
harsh school.

Speaker 6 (01:48:47):
Yeah, it's a tough call, isn't it at that stage.
I mean, you know, a lab nine, she's still you know, and.

Speaker 25 (01:48:52):
Theories should have plenty of plenty to go, you know,
in terms of normally their large expenses you know, up
around ten to twelve, you know, and older, and so
so you know, you're right, the arthritis will be due
to the surgical technique that have been had to be
applied early on.

Speaker 6 (01:49:11):
Now they've got techniques that they can actually.

Speaker 25 (01:49:13):
Remove arthritis as well through surgical techniques. And the first
thing I'd do though, is I would have an X
ray of the area that the arthritis is then and
determine the extent of the arthritis. And the VET really
is the one that will make that decision. That I
prefer personally to actually get a specialist opinion on something

(01:49:36):
like that. But anyway, your GP can do it and
once I've got a reading on the extent of it,
then I know number one that's the cause, and number
two is the VET will really advise you well normally
on when we're getting to that place we might need
to consider you for major but at this stage I

(01:49:57):
would suggest there's more to do with your VET to
resolve the issue.

Speaker 6 (01:50:03):
And there's some pretty good drugs there now that can
take to the next level too.

Speaker 2 (01:50:06):
Yeah, there are some pretty good drugs that can take
some level yep. Yeah, yeah, Matt knows that well, Sorry
about that. It's something Yeah, Peter, all the very best
to you.

Speaker 4 (01:50:16):
Joe.

Speaker 3 (01:50:17):
You're on with Mark.

Speaker 27 (01:50:19):
Oh hey, Lad's Love Show listen every afternoon. Thank you, Hey,
thank you, Matt. I've got a little bit two dogs.
I introduced a new puppy probably about six months ago.
He's about seven eight months old now. He loves her,
absolutely loves her, adors there, but he chases her around

(01:50:42):
pretty much non stop and he won't live with tea
or two by himself literally all over the whole time.

Speaker 5 (01:50:55):
What they're both.

Speaker 6 (01:51:00):
Okay, she too crosses and and the pups hell.

Speaker 25 (01:51:06):
Seven eight months now the months okay, So he's getting
into the late puberty as he decet, and he's just
quiteer excited.

Speaker 6 (01:51:16):
He's not okay. I mean he's not bothering her though,
is he mounting her or doing it?

Speaker 15 (01:51:22):
Not really?

Speaker 27 (01:51:23):
I mean you know she's fine with him. It's just
and like as I said, they play really well. It's
just now that he started propping his leg, he's actually
the freeing on her.

Speaker 13 (01:51:33):
Great.

Speaker 25 (01:51:33):
Yeah, you know i'd be thinking about desexing, you know,
particularly with at that age he's got.

Speaker 6 (01:51:39):
He's completed with his development.

Speaker 25 (01:51:42):
Now, you know, his physical development that you leave him
entire for if you want to do that, and I
tweak that back and get rid of those behaviors and
less unless you're breeding from him, and so that just
makes your life a lot easier, and he'd probably less
interested in her and worrying her.

Speaker 6 (01:51:59):
I use a moderation technique that that bounding all over
and being too rup and tumble. I've got to use
a long line and a slip color.

Speaker 25 (01:52:08):
And I'm just using a little check as if it's
coming from her, not from you. You're not saying anything.
I'm just trying to wind it because she's obviously not
got any defensive reaction to him. That's effective. So she's
being ineffective, so he's getting worse. And so you need
to What I try and do is in partner a
sense that that she has got a little bit of
I can tell you off cut that out, you know,

(01:52:30):
And so I'm just using a check not saying anything.
It's coming from her. And so you can always check
on my schools to learn how to do that technique.
It's called moderation. And I use a moderating technique take
to take you about a couple of weeks to get
it sorted. But it's well we're doing when you've got
one that's really bothering the other.

Speaker 2 (01:52:47):
Dog, there's no need for that.

Speaker 3 (01:52:49):
Peeing on you, that's bully behavior is no fun exactly.

Speaker 25 (01:52:54):
It's not unusual that in times will do that, you know,
not regular but and it's a bit of a it's
a bothersome.

Speaker 4 (01:53:00):
Baby that.

Speaker 2 (01:53:03):
No one wants to be paid on.

Speaker 3 (01:53:04):
Well, wet Mark, You've been great as always, Thank you
very much. And if people want to find out more,
where can they go?

Speaker 25 (01:53:16):
Yeah, Dogzen dot com or jump onto our Facebook page
and we've got Facebook live on Monday nights and yeah,
come come visit us and we'll give you a hand.

Speaker 6 (01:53:25):
Virtual schools are available to.

Speaker 3 (01:53:26):
You too, brilliant. We will catch up again in about
a month's time. Yeah, the Ford seeing you go, Mark,
thank you that as Mark vet it is nine minutes
too for.

Speaker 1 (01:53:38):
The big stories, the big issues, the big trends and
everything in between.

Speaker 4 (01:53:43):
Matt Heath and Taylor Adams Afternoons used Dogs EDB on
News Dogs EDB six to four.

Speaker 2 (01:53:49):
I'll tell you what, it's been a fantastic show. We've
got so many calls on manufacturing in New Zealand and
embezzlement from workplaces and then doggies and lamas and such
that we never got round to the key subject that
I really wanted to get stuck into. It's lip fuller yep,
lip fuller accidents and boats misshaps. We were going to

(01:54:10):
do a sweet half hour on that. So hopefully not
too much news happens overnight, so we can.

Speaker 3 (01:54:16):
We want to bring it back tomorrow if we can,
because we had so many ticks about the lip fillers
and the boatox as well.

Speaker 2 (01:54:21):
Really really really wanted to talk about botox gone wrong.

Speaker 3 (01:54:26):
Yeah, and we wanted to chat about fellers and botoxes.
A botox do guys tend to go for a bit
of botox. Is that a thing you've been toxed?

Speaker 13 (01:54:33):
Have you got?

Speaker 3 (01:54:35):
I wouldn't say no to it, just to know what
the fuss is about.

Speaker 2 (01:54:37):
If you've had lip filly, you must have had the
Finnish lips off anyone. Ever, they didn't do a good
job anyway. After three hours of talkback, I have some takeaways.
If someone at your work isn't taking holidays, they're probably
stealing from you. We've learned that. And if a lama
spits it, you spit back. See you tomorrow for another
edition of Matt and Tyler Afternoons. If you missed anything
on the show, The Mat and Tyler podcasts will be

(01:54:58):
out about half past four until we see you again
and give them a taste. Keepy from us all right tomorrow, Okay,
all right, listen.

Speaker 11 (01:55:09):
Again, not again, again, again.

Speaker 19 (01:55:30):
Again again, I've never gone a contexts again, select them

(01:56:13):
music plays.

Speaker 14 (01:56:14):
It will be.

Speaker 4 (01:56:17):
For more from News Talk st B.

Speaker 1 (01:56:19):
Listen live on air or online, and keep our shows
with you wherever you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio

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