Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm your guest host Grant Smith, filling in for Benjamin
Albright as he was on KOA Sports earlier today, sitting
in here with my guy Nick Ferguson. And if you
want to get involved in the show, shoot us a
text on the Common Spirit Health text line at five
six six nine zero.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
But it's time to go.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Inside the numbers with our guy, Ryan Michael.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Ryan, how are you this evening?
Speaker 3 (00:21):
How you guys doing well?
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Doing well?
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Man?
Speaker 1 (00:23):
I've been enjoying reading your article on our website to
Koacolorado dot com. You released your eighth annual rankings for
the greatest quarterbacks in Pro football history as an exclusive
on KOA. There's been a lot of spirited debate, as
there always is on your Twitter. At the Ryan Michael's
start by addressing the man you have ranked number one,
(00:44):
a person fond in Broncos country, Peyton Manning the greatest
quarterback of all time in your estimation.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Without a doubt? Where do I? Where do I start?
In a fifteen minute segment, grand you know, Peyton Manning
is a guy I've never seen anybody with greater mastery
of the position, greater pre snap recognition, greater pre smap
ability to manipulate defenders into and out of the position.
There's never been a quarterback with greater sack avoidant There's
(01:12):
never been a quarterback with greater accuracy twenty to forty
yards past the line of scrimmage. There's never been a
quarterback who's produced more seasons as the best player at
the position seven to nine depending on what you're looking at.
As far as all pro selections or advance metrics, There's
never been a quarterback who adjusted for ERA produced more
first downs. There's never been a quarterback who produced adjusted
(01:34):
for ERA more touchdowns. Bear in mind, he broke the
NFL's all time touchdown pass record by fars mark in
fifty six fewer games. That's three and a half seasons.
How do the ten seasons ranked first or second place
in touchdown passes in his career. To put the scope
of that accomplishment into perspective, Patrick Mahomes has done so twice,
(01:57):
and twice is a gargantuline number for a guy who's
played seven years as a starter. Tom Brady played until
the age of forty three to break the touchdown record.
Played to the age of forty four to break the
passing yardage record and played into the age of forty
five to break Peyton Manning's fourth quarter comeback record. So
if you're looking at the postseason, a lot of people
will point to rings, of course, but we're talking strictly
(02:20):
on field performance. Manning's numbers were actually greater than Brady's
per game in the postseason if you're looking strictly at
seasons when they were both active at the same time,
and if you afford no adjustment for error, meaning we're
allowing Tom to play seven years after Manning retired, inflating
that total, it brings it to a point where you're
looking at two quarterbacks who were near carbon copies of
(02:41):
each other head to head, which probably shouldn't be the
be all end all, but in championship games since those
two quarterbacks always shared the same conference. Peyton Manning was
three to one against Tom Brady on the championship sage.
The one game that Brady won, he completed fifty nine
percent of his path as he threw a pick and
he had three op He should have been a four
(03:02):
interception performance. And Tom's the guy. There's only been two
players over the last twenty years we won a conference
Championship game during three or more interceptions. The first was
Tom Brady in two thousand and seven against the Chargers.
He changed conferences became the second Brady again twenty twenty
against the Green Bay Packers through three interceptions and still won.
So when you look at Manning, there's never been a
(03:22):
quarterback who's found success independent of circumstance at a higher
level than he has. He's the only player in NFL
history to lead two different franchises to multiple Super Bowls.
He's the only player in NFL history to be named
League MVP for two different teams. He is the only
quarterback in NFL history to be named the First Team
All Pro selection for two different teams, and he had
(03:44):
two selections in his first two years here in Denver.
Went to four Super Bowls with four different head coaches
and ended up earning the number one or number two
seed with five different head coaches Jim Moore, at Tony Dongey,
Jim Cadwell, John Fox, Gary Kubiak, Peyton Manning's resident is
robust and it is peerless. There are quarterbacks who are close,
and the guys I have number two and number three
(04:06):
are close, but there's only one Peyton Manning.
Speaker 4 (04:09):
Wry and I know there's only one Peyton Manning, but
as I look over your list, I was left scratching
my head. And maybe you can help me figure this
out because I'm gonna go throw back old school because
it is Thursday.
Speaker 5 (04:22):
I mean, at number four, you have Dan Marino.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
Right, and then I also look and see, okay, well,
wait a minute, John Elway is at fifteen and Joe
Montana is at number eight. And when you look at
the number of super Bowl victories, Tom Brady is up
there for like seven or eight. Next to him is
Joe Montana. So how is it that the great John
Elway is behind Dan Marino who never won a Super Bowl?
(04:48):
But he also he is obviously behind Joe Montana. But
why is John Elway so far?
Speaker 3 (04:54):
I can get into that, and I think a lot
of listeners will see Lway at fifteen and they'll be
surprised that. I remember, Nick, a year ago when we
did these rankings, you grilled me on having Lway at
the same spot, and I would argue that having Lway
at fifteenth is actually a compliment to Lway and a
testament to just how impressive he was in circumstances that
(05:15):
weren't necessarily favorable. So if you look at my top
twelve quarterbacks, what you'll see is, with the exception of
three quarterbacks, all of the others retired as the NFL's
all time leader in both passing yards and touchdown passes,
And those two records, to me, especially the touchdown record,
is really the National Football League's equivalent of Major League
(05:37):
Baseball's all time home run record. It's not a record
that you get from just having a long career, as
evidence by the fact that Tom Brady had to play
until forty three, and it wasn't until Drew Brees lost
his playing time to injury and subsequently retired before Brady
captured that record at the age of forty three. So
if you look at this three in my top twelve,
we didn't have those records. You see Joe Montana autogram,
(06:00):
say Patrick Mahomes, and I'll get to them in a moment.
John Elway, from a strictly efficiency standpoint, for the first
two thirds of his career nineteen eighty three through nineteen
ninety two, amongst all quarterbacks who threw a minimum of
one thousand passes, he ranked twenty ninth and passer rating
at seventy three point eight, thirty second in completion percentage
fifty four point seven, thirty fifth in touchdown percentage three
(06:23):
point six percent. He was virtually virtually equal in touchdown
passes and interceptions adjusted NT yards per attempt, which might
be the best standard statistical measure, twenty seventh at five
point one zero. So the final third of his career,
you see five Pro Bowl selections in six years. You
see him ending his career with two Super Bowl rings.
So the final third of his career cannot be denied.
(06:45):
It but for a guy who for the first two
thirds of his career played statistically at a below average level.
What I think boosts Alway's legacy as far as perception
is the fact that the Broncos went to three Super
Bowls with rosters that fans don't feel necessarily comparable to
what Joe mind Hannah had. That much is true, but
it's worth noting, and I hope you appreciate this. As
(07:06):
a defensive gunmit, two of those three Super Bowl teams
had top ten defenses in nineteen eighty nine. Unit see
that Water's rookie year. The Broncos had the number one
defense in professional football. So always certainly had his moment
nineteen eighty seven League MVP. Butle when you look at
the totality of the first two thirds of his career,
it's more than enough to knock him down to fifteenth.
(07:27):
When you look at the efficiency levels that were produced
by all of the other quarterbacks in my top fifteen, Wow.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Ryan Michael always has the data to back up his opinion,
whether we agree with it or not. Here in Broncos
Country talking with Ryan Michael d Ryan Michael on Twitter.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
I want to go back to the top of the list.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
You made a good argument for Peyton Manning over Tom Brady,
but you also have another quarterback over Tom Brady.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
You have Drew Breese at number two. What made you
go with this decision?
Speaker 1 (07:57):
I had a.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
Feeling that that would be the most controversial spot on
my list. If you ask ten people who had a
greater career Manning or Brady, you might get three or
four people who say Manning. They might favor Brady overall,
but Manning at least people can understand. Even Tom Brady
himself referred to Payton Manning as the greatest of all
time after he himself was named League MVP in twenty ten.
(08:19):
Drew Brees is a guy that, if we're talking statistically,
had more completions, higher completion percentage average, more yards per game,
more touchdowns per game, more touchdowns per row, more yards
per attempt, more adjusted yards per attempt, a superior sack percentage,
a higher adjusted net yard per attent average over a
twenty year span. So by every standard statistical metric, Drew
(08:41):
Brees tops Tom Brady, with the exception of interception avoidance
being interception percentage, which is also a function of defensive support.
Drew Brees played with four top ten scoring defenses in
two decades. Tom Brady played with seventeen top ten defenses
in twenty one years, and anytime a defense fell out
(09:01):
of the top eight, he produced zero rings. So Drew
Brees was a guy. Did he benefit from playing in
a domea New Orleans Absolutely, Did he benefit from Sean
Payton's play calling, Absolutely, But I'm not sold that that's
enough to close the gap when you look at the
totality of what each quarterback had to work with. If
you look at Drew Brees, who at one point held
the NFL's all time touchdown pass record, Grand. If you
(09:24):
look at his top touchdown pass recipients, you have Marcus
Colston caught seventy two touchdowns. He was a guy taking
two hundred and fifty second overall. Jimmy Graham caught fifty one,
Lance Moore caught thirty eight, Michael Thomas caught twenty nine,
but he's really only played with him for about three
full seasons and he produced nothing. After Drew Brees retired,
Robert Meacham then comes in in fifth place with twenty
(09:46):
five touchdown reception. So when you're looking at a guy
who threw nearly six hundred touchdowns, tell me to be honest,
out of all of those receivers, where would those receivers
rank all time? On the other side of the coin,
Tom Brady had, Rob Gronkowski, Brandy Moss, Wes Welk or
Troy Brown, Brandon Cooks, Julian Edelman, Antonio Brown, like Evans Chriscottowan,
(10:07):
There's never been a player in the history of the
support who has had a greater gap in terms of
perception of support provided and the actual support provided. So
when I look at the context of those things, Bree's
playing in a much more competitive division. Tom Brady spent
the most of the majority of his career in the AFCs,
and he was challenged by who Chad Pennington that was
his greatest quarterback competition. It's a razor thin margin between
(10:30):
these two quarterbacks, Grant, and ironically enough, if he looked
at postseason performance per game, Drew Brees is far ahead
of Tom Brady and Peyton Manning, who are near carbon
copies of each other, and head to head I think
don't quote me on this because they don't have the
numbers in front of me, but I think Drew Brees
won something like six out of nine matchups head to
head versus Tom and the final game of his career
(10:51):
was when he was injured beyond recognition. So Tom Brady
played a whole hung game and Breeze laid an egg.
But overall, you're talking about two of the greatest quarter
backs in NFL history. That Tom Brady has a plane
to the age of forty three, forty four, and forty
five to get Pastor Breeze's Martin at Breeze and retire
when he did, I'm not so sure Tom Brady would
retire with those records.
Speaker 4 (11:11):
Well, and as I'm looking over this list, there's something
that really jumps out to me. There is a number
of quarterbacks on this list who you would classify as
being your traditional pocket passer standard, right, and then there's
a sprinkling of guys who were like Frank Talkerton, you know,
(11:32):
Steve Young, Roger Starbuck, quarterbacks who moved around. So when
you're compiling a list like this, how much does it
factor in the athleticism mobility of a quarterback opposed to
that statu who as quarterbacks in these rankings?
Speaker 3 (11:49):
That's a great question, and I would say, Sam Nix,
the most important thing is what you preduce. A touchdown
is worth six points, whether you produce it on the
ground or shoot the air. So if you look through
my top you do have some of the more modern
day people threat the Andrew luck at forty, Josh Allen
at thirty nine, Lamar Jackson at thirty eight. The problem is, historically,
for the majority of what we call dual threat quarterbacks,
(12:12):
that's just a nice way of saying that they're very
efficient in terms of their mobile ability, but not necessarily
their passing proficiency. Michael Vick might have been the most
gifted athlete to ever play the quarterback position. He also
had one of the strongest arms in the league. He
just had no pass accuracy whatsoever relative to peers of
his time. Lamar Jackson is the antipatus of that. He's
(12:34):
one of the rare cats who can do both. I
showed that on Twitter a few weeks ago that if
he had completed one more pass at any point in
the season, he would have actually broken Matt Ryon's all
time single season record for passer rating regular season and
postseason combined. Lamar Jackson should have been the league MVP
this year. I think Josh Allen ironically should have been
(12:56):
MVP last year. So I don't care so much how
you produced the yardage and the touchdowns. I care about
overall performance, and because passing is a more effective way
of generating that yardage and those touchdowns. Traditionally you're going
to see a lot more pocket passers on the list,
but I do see Andrew Lock, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson,
Randall Cunningham, Russell Wilson, trans Art and so I gave
(13:16):
a lot of love, I feel to the dual shrid
quarterbacks in my Top forty.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Well, my biggest complaint of your top forty list my guy, Oh, Joe.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Burr not cracking the top forty.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
How many more seasons does he need like this past
one admit to make it on the list realistically, like
if he has a couple more like this, Let's be fair.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
Let's be fair. And I hate it when people say
he produces more, as if it was an easy thing
to play at an MVP level the way that he did.
And in fairness to Joe Burrow, if he played for
a team of the medter win loss record, even I
might have been the league mpped. So how many more
great elite dominant league leading season? Says he need just
a handful of those, But good luck just producing it
(13:57):
as if that's easy. I had a lot of people
say that about Patrick Homes two years ago, and now
we have two years in a row of pedestrian production
that was masked with elite defensive performance of two Super
Bowl appearances. We're going to ignore the lack of efficiency
from Patrick Mahomes. So Jill Burrow is on this list
as a function of not having quite as much playing time,
and you'll see guys like Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson
(14:18):
at the very bottom of the top forty. Even though
they haven't played very long. One of the reasons there
is high is being in the top forty just because
if you look at their average rate of production season
by season, it's through the roof. Most quarterbacks experience regression.
Patrick Mahomes is living through it right now. So we'll
see over time. We'll see over time, Jill Borrow maybe
on this list in a few years.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
Hey give it three or four more years, So crack
that top forty of the prestigious Ryde Michael's Top forty
quarterbacks of all time. Ryan, appreciate your time as always, man,
have a great night and thanks for joining us.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
Guys, appreciate having me on and you.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Can find Ryan's full article on the KOA Colorado dot
com website or on his Twitter at the Ryan Michael
Nick thoughts on what Ryan had to.
Speaker 4 (15:01):
Say, Well, I was kind of a shot that Joe
Burrow's not on that list. I mean, there's a number
of quarterbacks who I feel have played well in their
careers who deserve to be on the list.
Speaker 5 (15:14):
And obviously this is you know, Ryan's list.
Speaker 4 (15:17):
But the one thing that stuck out to me when
I looked at your Mardern prototypical quarterback. There was a
lot of those guys on the list and watching the
league now and watching how it is somewhat then transform
with teams going more for that dual threat quarterback. Look
at what the Broncos have with bow Knicks the first
(15:38):
part of the twenty twenty four season. They kind of
started coming out of the gate, but then all of
a sudden, there were some changes. I don't know who
said what to whom, but it really exploited and showcased
a lot of both Nick's ability and to me, that's
where the league is going.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Yeah, I agree, and I think you see Lamar Jackson
just creep higher and higher up that list.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Longer he plays.
Speaker 5 (16:01):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Yeah, Well, we.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Got the NFL six pack coming up, plus an update
on a story about rookie hazing a couple of years
ago that Nick wants to talk about. We'll get to
that next on Broncos Country Night on eight fifty am
ninety four to one FMKOA News Talk Sports, the KOA
(16:23):
Sports Show earlier today, sitting in here with Nick Ferguson.
Thanks again to Rick Lewis for joining us in the
earlier segment. Also Ryan Michael and the last segment we
got some feedback on Ryan Michael's list on the k
Common Spirit l text line and a big fan of
(16:43):
Drew Brees. Apparently from the seven to to Oho Breeze
is so good. Elevated a franchise to the number one
free agent pickup in NFL history. I think he was
a number one free agent pickup in NFL history. I
mean he was a huge, huge impact in New Orleans
after they kind of gave it in Chargers the.
Speaker 4 (17:04):
Biggest I don't know the biggest, but if you are
a New Orleans Saints fan, uh, Drew Brees coming to
uh New Orleans changed their fortune?
Speaker 5 (17:15):
It certainly did. He mean he threw for like he
was a volume passer.
Speaker 4 (17:20):
I remember one year he broke Dan Marinos single season
passing yards record. I think it was like five thousand yards,
which was unheard of. But when you think about Breeze
and putting him Sean Payton, they threw a lot.
Speaker 5 (17:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Well, hopefully we can get a similar result that they
got in New Orleans with Sean Payton free.
Speaker 5 (17:42):
Okay, well, I'm not.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Saying in style of the offense. I'm just saying as
in a super.
Speaker 4 (17:47):
Result the results, yes, because here's what I would saying
that even I mean, passing the ball is the quickest
way to kind of move the ball from point A
to point B. But you have to be able to
run the ball to really put the defense in a
situation where they don't know what's actually going to happen.
(18:10):
So when you become a volume passer, what he says says,
in my opinion, this to me, thinking from a defensive standpoint,
is we're just gonna rush the passer, right, I mean,
they're gonna run a ball. We may give up, I
don't know, three point five yards of carry whatever. We
just want to make sure they don't have explosive plays.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Kind of like Kareem Hunts average last year. Yes, three
point five yards of carry. Yes, Aaron Jones is soft.
Speaker 4 (18:32):
Well, I told why we have different of opinions.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
I want to revisit that conversation next week. I'll be
filling in for you while Ben's on KWA Sports Live
from the Combine with Ryan Edwards, and I definitely want
to revisit that next week. And another text from the
seven to two to oh you two, Grant and Nick
love your show A lot of fun.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Well, thank you always nice to get support on the
text side.
Speaker 5 (18:57):
I mean, we got party favors in here. The only
thing we were missing in glowsticks.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
I thought you were going to bring some tonight.
Speaker 5 (19:03):
I did, but but the weather kind of changed things.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
Tomorrow with Ben on a Friday, get some gloves sticks going.
Speaker 5 (19:11):
Yeah, we just we What do you call it?
Speaker 4 (19:13):
Is that?
Speaker 2 (19:14):
What kind of music they call it em?
Speaker 4 (19:16):
Is it.
Speaker 5 (19:19):
House music?
Speaker 2 (19:20):
House music? There you go.
Speaker 5 (19:21):
I don't know if it's really technically house music.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
It reminds me of night at the Roxbury. I have
some friends who are into that music.
Speaker 5 (19:28):
I can't.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
I can't do it.
Speaker 5 (19:29):
That's like, hey, I want real music music.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Give me a guitar, give me some piano.
Speaker 5 (19:34):
See I like acoustic guitar. Oh yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
You are, you have Your music will taste never.
Speaker 4 (19:42):
I like acoustic guitar because it's soft, it's mellow. I'm
not I'm not pulling the Ryan Edwards where I'm playing
the same I'm playing different girls.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
So the other day, I wait sports with that, let's
get to the NFL six pack it it's time for the
NFL sick Pad.
Speaker 5 (20:03):
I'm going to drink a lot of beer.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
Insight and inside information you can't find anywhere else I know?
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Six the top six NFL headlines.
Speaker 6 (20:13):
On Starting off here with uh funny. Starting off here
with some NFL draft related news. The NFL today released
renderings of what their whole draft stage draft event in
Green Bay is going to look like. They've already announced
Pittsburgh is going to host in twenty twenty six, but
(20:35):
Denver is among the finalists to host in twenty twenty seven,
along with Charlotte and Washington DC. Do you think Denver's
already been the final finalist multiple times?
Speaker 7 (20:45):
Do you think Denver will finally get the NOD in
twenty twenty seven? Would you be excited about hosting the draft?
And why do you think they haven't gotten a NOD sooner?
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Well?
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Hell, yes, you're excited about hosting the draft, and you
know we have a rabid fan base out here in Denver.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
I mean that people would show up for this.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
But Nick, I think there needs to be one change,
maybe to the stadium.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Before we get this draft in twenty twenty seven.
Speaker 4 (21:09):
Well, would you be talking about a retractable room?
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Yeah? Maybe, I don't think it.
Speaker 4 (21:15):
Gets done by then, But look, it would be great
for dem to be the hosting if you're telling me
the city of Green Bay, Wisconsin is hosting a draft,
why can't.
Speaker 5 (21:27):
The city of Denver, Colorado?
Speaker 1 (21:29):
And Charlotte, Like, we're gonna go to the Panthers fan base, Like,
come on, man, come on man.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
The Broncos fan base.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
You know they love to hate, but they love to
show up for their team as well, and you got
to respect that. I think they would draw huge crowds
at a draft here in Denver.
Speaker 4 (21:45):
Yeah, I'm gonna try to help push it over the top.
I do have a video of one of Zach singers
with a list of the people message or Troy Vincent
and one Roger Goodell.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
I know you got his number?
Speaker 5 (21:58):
Yes, Okay?
Speaker 2 (21:59):
Well two?
Speaker 7 (22:04):
Speaking of hate, mel Kiper reported today on his NFL
Draft podcast that NFL front office figure told him chaud
Door is not really what we're looking for. This is quote, sorry,
shau Door is not really what we're looking for. The
NFL is not really looking for that kind of quarterback. Now,
what do you make of that report and do you
(22:24):
think there's any truth to them? Do you disagree and
think the NFL should be looking for that type of quarterback?
Speaker 1 (22:30):
Well, I think Shadur is the perfect type of quarterback
to bring in, especially to a bad team. I think, Nick,
you actually made this point a couple of weeks ago
when we were talking about him as a prospect. But
he's played with some I don't want to rag on
him too much, but some not so great offensive lines.
And when you're a number one or a top pick
going to a bad team, you're going to be, you know,
(22:53):
under some pressure. And I think he's shown so much
resilience and still has the ability to be a dominant
quarterback with some struggles with some holes on your roster.
Speaker 5 (23:04):
For me, when I think about that comment and that
comment being.
Speaker 4 (23:08):
Made, the first thing I think I said, when you
look at Shador's skill set, there are other quarterbacks in
this year's draft with a similar skill set. And when
you think about Shador, Schador is not a Josh Allen
or Lamar Jackson or Kla Murray. Those guys are what
I would consider to be really mobile quarterbacks.
Speaker 5 (23:29):
Shaudor can run if he needs to run.
Speaker 4 (23:32):
But just kind of to invalidate him in that way
and say, well, he's not what we're looking for, well,
my first question is how the hell of we.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
Like you?
Speaker 4 (23:42):
Hear people say or dy Well like they said this, yeah,
put a name on it. But for me, I think
this is way to kind of undercut him. But also
this is technically the Lion season. Certain people can say
things about players to devalue them so other teams can
pick them at the right spots as well.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
By the way, Daniel Jeremiah said today that he has
cam Ward as the same rating as bo Nicks last year.
That just shows you how great the quarterback class was
last year and kind of how lowly it's viewed this year.
Speaker 5 (24:14):
Absolutely.
Speaker 7 (24:15):
Three big retirement news the athletics. Diana Rassini has reported
that Travis Kelcey is leaning towards returning in twenty twenty five.
That said, it could get a little messy, as Kelsey
is also due nearly twenty million dollars next year and
Kansas City can save over seventeen million dollars.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
By cutting or trading him.
Speaker 7 (24:39):
Kansas City also only has eight million dollars in cast
space as it currently stands, and six starters set to
become unrestricted free agents. With that cocktail coming together here,
do you think we see Kelsey in a different uniform
in twenty twenty five And if so, how interested. Should
the Broncos be in adding this long time rival.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Well, I think the Broncos could be interested in it,
but there's no way he's playing for anyone else. Em
and Patrick Mahomes are one A and one B. They're together,
two p's in a pod. He's not gonna play anywhere else.
He's gonna play for the Kansas City Chiefs or he's
going to retire.
Speaker 4 (25:14):
I definitely agree with you, and Brett Beach has done
a broken job for the past couple of years, kind
of working the salary cab. If anything, I think Travis
Kelsey would be willing to take a reduced salary to
bring some of those other players back. But I'm with you,
he's not gonna play in any other jersey. You bt
to Kansasy to the chief Jersey.
Speaker 7 (25:32):
Or Zach Martin, another major retirement here, is reportedly planning
to retire. According to the NFL Networks Tom Pellisero, Martin's
seven First Team All pros is the most ever.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
At the guard position.
Speaker 7 (25:49):
Another crazy stat here, he also has more total All
Pro selections first and second team he get with nine
that he has accepted holding penalties against him in his
entire NFL career. Considering that, do you think Zach Martin
is the greatest offensive guard in NFL history? A seven
team All priss is the most ever rightest position. And
(26:10):
where do you think he ranks among all time Dallas
Cowboy greats.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Well, I think he's up there amongst Dallas Cowboys greats,
but sadly another great Dallas Cowboys player without a playoff win,
I believe. But I think he's a first ballot Hall
of Famer. And that stat you threw out there of
was nine All Pro selections and seven holding pill nibbies
in his career.
Speaker 7 (26:32):
Yes, and even if you want to again narrow the
scope to only first team All Pro selections, then it's equal.
He is as many first team All Pro selections as
he does offensive holding penalties.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Dang, yeah, I mean, I mean, you have.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Some great guards of all time, Bruce Matthews, Larry Allen,
but Zach Martin has a case.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
I think. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
I think he's clearly a first ballot Hall of Famer
in my opinion, hall.
Speaker 4 (26:55):
Of famer, one thing best guard of all time in NFL,
I think, not like you have Bruce Matthews, who was
one heck of a guard himself, But for me, Larry Island.
When I came in the league, I got Larry Allen
on the back end of his career, but he still punch.
(27:15):
He has a heavy punch. And I could say that
because I was one of.
Speaker 5 (27:19):
The guys he.
Speaker 4 (27:21):
So I got a first hand, up close account of
what Larry Allen Stritt.
Speaker 5 (27:27):
Was deep into his career.
Speaker 4 (27:28):
That was a guy who was big and you think
that he couldn't run, I've seen him chase down guys.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Before, sneaky fast, sneaky fast.
Speaker 5 (27:38):
So that is the best guard of all time for me.
Five love the choice there.
Speaker 7 (27:44):
ESPN's Matt Bowen has labeled the Denver Broncos as the
best potential fit for Chiefs linebacker Nick Bolton and Vikings
running back Aaron Jones in his early list of the
top fifty free agentcy would you like to see either
of those two plays?
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Are both of those players in orange and blue?
Speaker 7 (28:02):
And are there any other free agents that catch your
eyes as options that would fit well in Denver?
Speaker 1 (28:08):
I said, I wanted to revisit this conversation next week,
So when revisit it right now, yes, and yes, you
give me Nick Bolton. I think he's a better fit
for this Broncos defense than Zach Bond and cheaper for
what the Broncos are looking for. And Aaron Jones, I
still think he has a lot of gas left in
the tank, and I do not view him as a
(28:28):
finesse player. I view him as a player that can
do both things. So he can run outside the tackles
and he can run.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
Inside the tackles.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
I think Ryan Edwards said it the other day on
KA Sports. He had like four point five yards per
carry this year. You don't get four point five yards
per carry if you can't run inside the tackles.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Look.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
I like the idea of both players, and I think
Aaron Jones would do a great job here as Denver Bronco.
Speaker 5 (28:50):
I mean, just my bias is towards physicality.
Speaker 4 (28:54):
Yes. Can he be a physical player, Absolutely? But do
I think there are other backs that are more physical
then he is. Absolutely. But if the Broncos were to
acquire both of those guys, listen, I'll live with it,
and I'll be happy.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Any other free agents catching your.
Speaker 5 (29:09):
Eye, let's talk about it, all right.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
That's a tease right there in the radio business.
Speaker 7 (29:15):
Six last one for you here, The Athletic released It's
fifty under forty lists today, highlighting the fifty most influential
figures in the NFL landscape today. The list includes two
Denver Broncos, as well as nineteen minority figures and four
women across coaching, front office, administrative and agent roles. What
(29:37):
detail on that list stands out to you the most
and does this represent progress in the NFL's hiring and
interview practices in your eyes?
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Well, I still think the hiring practices are kind of
a sham for the NFL. You know, everyone just kind
of has their guy and then they fulfill the Rooney rule,
but to their credit. I mean nineteen minority coaches and
front office business figures.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Agent's on the list.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Seven minority coaches, three agents, two minority CEOs, four women.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
I mean there is progress being.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Made, but I think it's just because people are realizing that, hey,
these are the best people.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
For the job.
Speaker 5 (30:14):
Well, progress is slowly being made.
Speaker 4 (30:17):
Is good to see that individuals being recognized the way
that they are now posted what it was twenty years ago?
Speaker 5 (30:23):
Is it exactly where it needs to be? Absolutely not?
Speaker 4 (30:27):
And as I look at some of this this list
of what's fifty under forty lists. I don't know how
old Kyle Sheenian is, but he can't be over forty
is he?
Speaker 5 (30:38):
Because he's up there.
Speaker 7 (30:39):
He's surprisingly I think he's about fifty. Actually, No, Kyle
years old kid.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
I can see him being over forty. But there's one
way he's over fifty.
Speaker 5 (30:52):
No, I can't.
Speaker 4 (30:52):
I can't.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
He split the difference forty five.
Speaker 7 (30:55):
He's looked a little great and he's agent like Obama
out there, but before presidency here after presidency.
Speaker 5 (31:05):
It's great to see some progress. I would love to.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
See some more minorities on this list, and I would
encourage the NFL to give more people opportunities.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
So you know who I'm surprised to see on this list,
Liam Cohendall.
Speaker 5 (31:23):
Henry, if I catch you, I got my eye. Well,
he's unaffording. He's a head coach, so we're.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
Hoping for something good better than this.
Speaker 7 (31:34):
Another name that I think is an interesting one, Davis Webb,
is one of the two Broncos inclusions on this list.
I don't think many people will be surprised by that.
The other one, though, is not a super well known name.
Let me see Ali Engel engel Kin. Yeah, the VP
and director of the Denver Broncos Foundation. I know for
my time working at Chassell before I came here, she
was instrumental to making flag football varsity high school sport
(31:58):
here in Colorado.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
So cool to see her, Max. I'm glad to give
her some love. She does so much great work behind
the scenes. And that's the thing about these NFL organizations,
so many people behind the scenes that are making a difference.
Speaker 7 (32:09):
Only charity leader or figure. And to be in the
top fifty to my life.
Speaker 5 (32:14):
Wow, all right, Chris Benjo's not on this list.
Speaker 4 (32:20):
He's the new special teams goes for the New York Jets.
Speaker 7 (32:23):
So only special teams coordinator on the list is Jeremy
Springer of the Patriots.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Maybe next year for Chris Bancho.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
I think it would make This was a lot of
fun as always, Man, we'll get to do this all
next week together. Oh next week, Go Usa, Go Usa.
I'm Grant Smith. We got BUFS prime time coming up
next right here on KOA A fifty am ninety four
to one FM news Talk Sports,
I'm your guest host Grant Smith, filling in for Benjamin
Albright as he was on KOA Sports earlier today, sitting
in here with my guy Nick Ferguson. And if you
want to get involved in the show, shoot us a
text on the Common Spirit Health text line at five
six six nine zero.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
But it's time to go.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Inside the numbers with our guy, Ryan Michael.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Ryan, how are you this evening?
Speaker 3 (00:21):
How you guys doing well?
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Doing well?
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Man?
Speaker 1 (00:23):
I've been enjoying reading your article on our website to
Koacolorado dot com. You released your eighth annual rankings for
the greatest quarterbacks in Pro football history as an exclusive
on KOA. There's been a lot of spirited debate, as
there always is on your Twitter. At the Ryan Michael's
start by addressing the man you have ranked number one,
(00:44):
a person fond in Broncos country, Peyton Manning the greatest
quarterback of all time in your estimation.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Without a doubt? Where do I? Where do I start?
In a fifteen minute segment, grand you know, Peyton Manning
is a guy I've never seen anybody with greater mastery
of the position, greater pre snap recognition, greater pre smap
ability to manipulate defenders into and out of the position.
There's never been a quarterback with greater sack avoidant There's
(01:12):
never been a quarterback with greater accuracy twenty to forty
yards past the line of scrimmage. There's never been a
quarterback who's produced more seasons as the best player at
the position seven to nine depending on what you're looking at.
As far as all pro selections or advance metrics, There's
never been a quarterback who adjusted for ERA produced more
first downs. There's never been a quarterback who produced adjusted
(01:34):
for ERA more touchdowns. Bear in mind, he broke the
NFL's all time touchdown pass record by fars mark in
fifty six fewer games. That's three and a half seasons.
How do the ten seasons ranked first or second place
in touchdown passes in his career. To put the scope
of that accomplishment into perspective, Patrick Mahomes has done so twice,
(01:57):
and twice is a gargantuline number for a guy who's
played seven years as a starter. Tom Brady played until
the age of forty three to break the touchdown record.
Played to the age of forty four to break the
passing yardage record and played into the age of forty
five to break Peyton Manning's fourth quarter comeback record. So
if you're looking at the postseason, a lot of people
will point to rings, of course, but we're talking strictly
(02:20):
on field performance. Manning's numbers were actually greater than Brady's
per game in the postseason if you're looking strictly at
seasons when they were both active at the same time,
and if you afford no adjustment for error, meaning we're
allowing Tom to play seven years after Manning retired, inflating
that total, it brings it to a point where you're
looking at two quarterbacks who were near carbon copies of
(02:41):
each other head to head, which probably shouldn't be the
be all end all, but in championship games since those
two quarterbacks always shared the same conference. Peyton Manning was
three to one against Tom Brady on the championship sage.
The one game that Brady won, he completed fifty nine
percent of his path as he threw a pick and
he had three op He should have been a four
(03:02):
interception performance. And Tom's the guy. There's only been two
players over the last twenty years we won a conference
Championship game during three or more interceptions. The first was
Tom Brady in two thousand and seven against the Chargers.
He changed conferences became the second Brady again twenty twenty
against the Green Bay Packers through three interceptions and still won.
So when you look at Manning, there's never been a
(03:22):
quarterback who's found success independent of circumstance at a higher
level than he has. He's the only player in NFL
history to lead two different franchises to multiple Super Bowls.
He's the only player in NFL history to be named
League MVP for two different teams. He is the only
quarterback in NFL history to be named the First Team
All Pro selection for two different teams, and he had
(03:44):
two selections in his first two years here in Denver.
Went to four Super Bowls with four different head coaches
and ended up earning the number one or number two
seed with five different head coaches Jim Moore, at Tony Dongey,
Jim Cadwell, John Fox, Gary Kubiak, Peyton Manning's resident is
robust and it is peerless. There are quarterbacks who are close,
and the guys I have number two and number three
(04:06):
are close, but there's only one Peyton Manning.
Speaker 4 (04:09):
Wry and I know there's only one Peyton Manning, but
as I look over your list, I was left scratching
my head. And maybe you can help me figure this
out because I'm gonna go throw back old school because
it is Thursday.
Speaker 5 (04:22):
I mean, at number four, you have Dan Marino.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
Right, and then I also look and see, okay, well,
wait a minute, John Elway is at fifteen and Joe
Montana is at number eight. And when you look at
the number of super Bowl victories, Tom Brady is up
there for like seven or eight. Next to him is
Joe Montana. So how is it that the great John
Elway is behind Dan Marino who never won a Super Bowl?
(04:48):
But he also he is obviously behind Joe Montana. But
why is John Elway so far?
Speaker 3 (04:54):
I can get into that, and I think a lot
of listeners will see Lway at fifteen and they'll be
surprised that. I remember, Nick, a year ago when we
did these rankings, you grilled me on having Lway at
the same spot, and I would argue that having Lway
at fifteenth is actually a compliment to Lway and a
testament to just how impressive he was in circumstances that
(05:15):
weren't necessarily favorable. So if you look at my top
twelve quarterbacks, what you'll see is, with the exception of
three quarterbacks, all of the others retired as the NFL's
all time leader in both passing yards and touchdown passes,
And those two records, to me, especially the touchdown record,
is really the National Football League's equivalent of Major League
(05:37):
Baseball's all time home run record. It's not a record
that you get from just having a long career, as
evidence by the fact that Tom Brady had to play
until forty three, and it wasn't until Drew Brees lost
his playing time to injury and subsequently retired before Brady
captured that record at the age of forty three. So
if you look at this three in my top twelve,
we didn't have those records. You see Joe Montana autogram,
(06:00):
say Patrick Mahomes, and I'll get to them in a moment.
John Elway, from a strictly efficiency standpoint, for the first
two thirds of his career nineteen eighty three through nineteen
ninety two, amongst all quarterbacks who threw a minimum of
one thousand passes, he ranked twenty ninth and passer rating
at seventy three point eight, thirty second in completion percentage
fifty four point seven, thirty fifth in touchdown percentage three
(06:23):
point six percent. He was virtually virtually equal in touchdown
passes and interceptions adjusted NT yards per attempt, which might
be the best standard statistical measure, twenty seventh at five
point one zero. So the final third of his career,
you see five Pro Bowl selections in six years. You
see him ending his career with two Super Bowl rings.
So the final third of his career cannot be denied.
(06:45):
It but for a guy who for the first two
thirds of his career played statistically at a below average level.
What I think boosts Alway's legacy as far as perception
is the fact that the Broncos went to three Super
Bowls with rosters that fans don't feel necessarily comparable to
what Joe mind Hannah had. That much is true, but
it's worth noting, and I hope you appreciate this. As
(07:06):
a defensive gunmit, two of those three Super Bowl teams
had top ten defenses in nineteen eighty nine. Unit see
that Water's rookie year. The Broncos had the number one
defense in professional football. So always certainly had his moment
nineteen eighty seven League MVP. Butle when you look at
the totality of the first two thirds of his career,
it's more than enough to knock him down to fifteenth.
(07:27):
When you look at the efficiency levels that were produced
by all of the other quarterbacks in my top fifteen, Wow.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Ryan Michael always has the data to back up his opinion,
whether we agree with it or not. Here in Broncos
Country talking with Ryan Michael d Ryan Michael on Twitter.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
I want to go back to the top of the list.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
You made a good argument for Peyton Manning over Tom Brady,
but you also have another quarterback over Tom Brady.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
You have Drew Breese at number two. What made you
go with this decision?
Speaker 1 (07:57):
I had a.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
Feeling that that would be the most controversial spot on
my list. If you ask ten people who had a
greater career Manning or Brady, you might get three or
four people who say Manning. They might favor Brady overall,
but Manning at least people can understand. Even Tom Brady
himself referred to Payton Manning as the greatest of all
time after he himself was named League MVP in twenty ten.
(08:19):
Drew Brees is a guy that, if we're talking statistically,
had more completions, higher completion percentage average, more yards per game,
more touchdowns per game, more touchdowns per row, more yards
per attempt, more adjusted yards per attempt, a superior sack percentage,
a higher adjusted net yard per attent average over a
twenty year span. So by every standard statistical metric, Drew
(08:41):
Brees tops Tom Brady, with the exception of interception avoidance
being interception percentage, which is also a function of defensive support.
Drew Brees played with four top ten scoring defenses in
two decades. Tom Brady played with seventeen top ten defenses
in twenty one years, and anytime a defense fell out
(09:01):
of the top eight, he produced zero rings. So Drew
Brees was a guy. Did he benefit from playing in
a domea New Orleans Absolutely, Did he benefit from Sean
Payton's play calling, Absolutely, But I'm not sold that that's
enough to close the gap when you look at the
totality of what each quarterback had to work with. If
you look at Drew Brees, who at one point held
the NFL's all time touchdown pass record, Grand. If you
(09:24):
look at his top touchdown pass recipients, you have Marcus
Colston caught seventy two touchdowns. He was a guy taking
two hundred and fifty second overall. Jimmy Graham caught fifty one,
Lance Moore caught thirty eight, Michael Thomas caught twenty nine,
but he's really only played with him for about three
full seasons and he produced nothing. After Drew Brees retired,
Robert Meacham then comes in in fifth place with twenty
(09:46):
five touchdown reception. So when you're looking at a guy
who threw nearly six hundred touchdowns, tell me to be honest,
out of all of those receivers, where would those receivers
rank all time? On the other side of the coin,
Tom Brady had, Rob Gronkowski, Brandy Moss, Wes Welk or
Troy Brown, Brandon Cooks, Julian Edelman, Antonio Brown, like Evans Chriscottowan,
(10:07):
There's never been a player in the history of the
support who has had a greater gap in terms of
perception of support provided and the actual support provided. So
when I look at the context of those things, Bree's
playing in a much more competitive division. Tom Brady spent
the most of the majority of his career in the AFCs,
and he was challenged by who Chad Pennington that was
his greatest quarterback competition. It's a razor thin margin between
(10:30):
these two quarterbacks, Grant, and ironically enough, if he looked
at postseason performance per game, Drew Brees is far ahead
of Tom Brady and Peyton Manning, who are near carbon
copies of each other, and head to head I think
don't quote me on this because they don't have the
numbers in front of me, but I think Drew Brees
won something like six out of nine matchups head to
head versus Tom and the final game of his career
(10:51):
was when he was injured beyond recognition. So Tom Brady
played a whole hung game and Breeze laid an egg.
But overall, you're talking about two of the greatest quarter
backs in NFL history. That Tom Brady has a plane
to the age of forty three, forty four, and forty
five to get Pastor Breeze's Martin at Breeze and retire
when he did, I'm not so sure Tom Brady would
retire with those records.
Speaker 4 (11:11):
Well, and as I'm looking over this list, there's something
that really jumps out to me. There is a number
of quarterbacks on this list who you would classify as
being your traditional pocket passer standard, right, and then there's
a sprinkling of guys who were like Frank Talkerton, you know,
(11:32):
Steve Young, Roger Starbuck, quarterbacks who moved around. So when
you're compiling a list like this, how much does it
factor in the athleticism mobility of a quarterback opposed to
that statu who as quarterbacks in these rankings?
Speaker 3 (11:49):
That's a great question, and I would say, Sam Nix,
the most important thing is what you preduce. A touchdown
is worth six points, whether you produce it on the
ground or shoot the air. So if you look through
my top you do have some of the more modern
day people threat the Andrew luck at forty, Josh Allen
at thirty nine, Lamar Jackson at thirty eight. The problem is, historically,
for the majority of what we call dual threat quarterbacks,
(12:12):
that's just a nice way of saying that they're very
efficient in terms of their mobile ability, but not necessarily
their passing proficiency. Michael Vick might have been the most
gifted athlete to ever play the quarterback position. He also
had one of the strongest arms in the league. He
just had no pass accuracy whatsoever relative to peers of
his time. Lamar Jackson is the antipatus of that. He's
(12:34):
one of the rare cats who can do both. I
showed that on Twitter a few weeks ago that if
he had completed one more pass at any point in
the season, he would have actually broken Matt Ryon's all
time single season record for passer rating regular season and
postseason combined. Lamar Jackson should have been the league MVP
this year. I think Josh Allen ironically should have been
(12:56):
MVP last year. So I don't care so much how
you produced the yardage and the touchdowns. I care about
overall performance, and because passing is a more effective way
of generating that yardage and those touchdowns. Traditionally you're going
to see a lot more pocket passers on the list,
but I do see Andrew Lock, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson,
Randall Cunningham, Russell Wilson, trans Art and so I gave
(13:16):
a lot of love, I feel to the dual shrid
quarterbacks in my Top forty.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Well, my biggest complaint of your top forty list my guy, Oh, Joe.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Burr not cracking the top forty.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
How many more seasons does he need like this past
one admit to make it on the list realistically, like
if he has a couple more like this, Let's be fair.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
Let's be fair. And I hate it when people say
he produces more, as if it was an easy thing
to play at an MVP level the way that he did.
And in fairness to Joe Burrow, if he played for
a team of the medter win loss record, even I
might have been the league mpped. So how many more
great elite dominant league leading season? Says he need just
a handful of those, But good luck just producing it
(13:57):
as if that's easy. I had a lot of people
say that about Patrick Homes two years ago, and now
we have two years in a row of pedestrian production
that was masked with elite defensive performance of two Super
Bowl appearances. We're going to ignore the lack of efficiency
from Patrick Mahomes. So Jill Burrow is on this list
as a function of not having quite as much playing time,
and you'll see guys like Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson
(14:18):
at the very bottom of the top forty. Even though
they haven't played very long. One of the reasons there
is high is being in the top forty just because
if you look at their average rate of production season
by season, it's through the roof. Most quarterbacks experience regression.
Patrick Mahomes is living through it right now. So we'll
see over time. We'll see over time, Jill Borrow maybe
on this list in a few years.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
Hey give it three or four more years, So crack
that top forty of the prestigious Ryde Michael's Top forty
quarterbacks of all time. Ryan, appreciate your time as always, man,
have a great night and thanks for joining us.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
Guys, appreciate having me on and you.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Can find Ryan's full article on the KOA Colorado dot
com website or on his Twitter at the Ryan Michael
Nick thoughts on what Ryan had to.
Speaker 4 (15:01):
Say, Well, I was kind of a shot that Joe
Burrow's not on that list. I mean, there's a number
of quarterbacks who I feel have played well in their
careers who deserve to be on the list.
Speaker 5 (15:14):
And obviously this is you know, Ryan's list.
Speaker 4 (15:17):
But the one thing that stuck out to me when
I looked at your Mardern prototypical quarterback. There was a
lot of those guys on the list and watching the
league now and watching how it is somewhat then transform
with teams going more for that dual threat quarterback. Look
at what the Broncos have with bow Knicks the first
(15:38):
part of the twenty twenty four season. They kind of
started coming out of the gate, but then all of
a sudden, there were some changes. I don't know who
said what to whom, but it really exploited and showcased
a lot of both Nick's ability and to me, that's
where the league is going.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Yeah, I agree, and I think you see Lamar Jackson
just creep higher and higher up that list.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Longer he plays.
Speaker 5 (16:01):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Yeah, Well, we.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Got the NFL six pack coming up, plus an update
on a story about rookie hazing a couple of years
ago that Nick wants to talk about. We'll get to
that next on Broncos Country Night on eight fifty am
ninety four to one FMKOA News Talk Sports, the KOA
(16:23):
Sports Show earlier today, sitting in here with Nick Ferguson.
Thanks again to Rick Lewis for joining us in the
earlier segment. Also Ryan Michael and the last segment we
got some feedback on Ryan Michael's list on the k
Common Spirit l text line and a big fan of
(16:43):
Drew Brees. Apparently from the seven to to Oho Breeze
is so good. Elevated a franchise to the number one
free agent pickup in NFL history. I think he was
a number one free agent pickup in NFL history. I
mean he was a huge, huge impact in New Orleans
after they kind of gave it in Chargers the.
Speaker 4 (17:04):
Biggest I don't know the biggest, but if you are
a New Orleans Saints fan, uh, Drew Brees coming to
uh New Orleans changed their fortune?
Speaker 5 (17:15):
It certainly did. He mean he threw for like he
was a volume passer.
Speaker 4 (17:20):
I remember one year he broke Dan Marinos single season
passing yards record. I think it was like five thousand yards,
which was unheard of. But when you think about Breeze
and putting him Sean Payton, they threw a lot.
Speaker 5 (17:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Well, hopefully we can get a similar result that they
got in New Orleans with Sean Payton free.
Speaker 5 (17:42):
Okay, well, I'm not.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Saying in style of the offense. I'm just saying as
in a super.
Speaker 4 (17:47):
Result the results, yes, because here's what I would saying
that even I mean, passing the ball is the quickest
way to kind of move the ball from point A
to point B. But you have to be able to
run the ball to really put the defense in a
situation where they don't know what's actually going to happen.
(18:10):
So when you become a volume passer, what he says says,
in my opinion, this to me, thinking from a defensive standpoint,
is we're just gonna rush the passer, right, I mean,
they're gonna run a ball. We may give up, I
don't know, three point five yards of carry whatever. We
just want to make sure they don't have explosive plays.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Kind of like Kareem Hunts average last year. Yes, three
point five yards of carry. Yes, Aaron Jones is soft.
Speaker 4 (18:32):
Well, I told why we have different of opinions.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
I want to revisit that conversation next week. I'll be
filling in for you while Ben's on KWA Sports Live
from the Combine with Ryan Edwards, and I definitely want
to revisit that next week. And another text from the
seven to two to oh you two, Grant and Nick
love your show A lot of fun.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Well, thank you always nice to get support on the
text side.
Speaker 5 (18:57):
I mean, we got party favors in here. The only
thing we were missing in glowsticks.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
I thought you were going to bring some tonight.
Speaker 5 (19:03):
I did, but but the weather kind of changed things.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
Tomorrow with Ben on a Friday, get some gloves sticks going.
Speaker 5 (19:11):
Yeah, we just we What do you call it?
Speaker 4 (19:13):
Is that?
Speaker 2 (19:14):
What kind of music they call it em?
Speaker 4 (19:16):
Is it.
Speaker 5 (19:19):
House music?
Speaker 2 (19:20):
House music? There you go.
Speaker 5 (19:21):
I don't know if it's really technically house music.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
It reminds me of night at the Roxbury. I have
some friends who are into that music.
Speaker 5 (19:28):
I can't.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
I can't do it.
Speaker 5 (19:29):
That's like, hey, I want real music music.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Give me a guitar, give me some piano.
Speaker 5 (19:34):
See I like acoustic guitar. Oh yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
You are, you have Your music will taste never.
Speaker 4 (19:42):
I like acoustic guitar because it's soft, it's mellow. I'm
not I'm not pulling the Ryan Edwards where I'm playing
the same I'm playing different girls.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
So the other day, I wait sports with that, let's
get to the NFL six pack it it's time for the
NFL sick Pad.
Speaker 5 (20:03):
I'm going to drink a lot of beer.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
Insight and inside information you can't find anywhere else I know?
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Six the top six NFL headlines.
Speaker 6 (20:13):
On Starting off here with uh funny. Starting off here
with some NFL draft related news. The NFL today released
renderings of what their whole draft stage draft event in
Green Bay is going to look like. They've already announced
Pittsburgh is going to host in twenty twenty six, but
(20:35):
Denver is among the finalists to host in twenty twenty seven,
along with Charlotte and Washington DC. Do you think Denver's
already been the final finalist multiple times?
Speaker 7 (20:45):
Do you think Denver will finally get the NOD in
twenty twenty seven? Would you be excited about hosting the draft?
And why do you think they haven't gotten a NOD sooner?
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Well?
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Hell, yes, you're excited about hosting the draft, and you
know we have a rabid fan base out here in Denver.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
I mean that people would show up for this.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
But Nick, I think there needs to be one change,
maybe to the stadium.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Before we get this draft in twenty twenty seven.
Speaker 4 (21:09):
Well, would you be talking about a retractable room?
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Yeah? Maybe, I don't think it.
Speaker 4 (21:15):
Gets done by then, But look, it would be great
for dem to be the hosting if you're telling me
the city of Green Bay, Wisconsin is hosting a draft,
why can't.
Speaker 5 (21:27):
The city of Denver, Colorado?
Speaker 1 (21:29):
And Charlotte, Like, we're gonna go to the Panthers fan base, Like,
come on, man, come on man.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
The Broncos fan base.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
You know they love to hate, but they love to
show up for their team as well, and you got
to respect that. I think they would draw huge crowds
at a draft here in Denver.
Speaker 4 (21:45):
Yeah, I'm gonna try to help push it over the top.
I do have a video of one of Zach singers
with a list of the people message or Troy Vincent
and one Roger Goodell.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
I know you got his number?
Speaker 5 (21:58):
Yes, Okay?
Speaker 2 (21:59):
Well two?
Speaker 7 (22:04):
Speaking of hate, mel Kiper reported today on his NFL
Draft podcast that NFL front office figure told him chaud
Door is not really what we're looking for. This is quote, sorry,
shau Door is not really what we're looking for. The
NFL is not really looking for that kind of quarterback. Now,
what do you make of that report and do you
(22:24):
think there's any truth to them? Do you disagree and
think the NFL should be looking for that type of quarterback?
Speaker 1 (22:30):
Well, I think Shadur is the perfect type of quarterback
to bring in, especially to a bad team. I think, Nick,
you actually made this point a couple of weeks ago
when we were talking about him as a prospect. But
he's played with some I don't want to rag on
him too much, but some not so great offensive lines.
And when you're a number one or a top pick
going to a bad team, you're going to be, you know,
(22:53):
under some pressure. And I think he's shown so much
resilience and still has the ability to be a dominant
quarterback with some struggles with some holes on your roster.
Speaker 5 (23:04):
For me, when I think about that comment and that
comment being.
Speaker 4 (23:08):
Made, the first thing I think I said, when you
look at Shador's skill set, there are other quarterbacks in
this year's draft with a similar skill set. And when
you think about Shador, Schador is not a Josh Allen
or Lamar Jackson or Kla Murray. Those guys are what
I would consider to be really mobile quarterbacks.
Speaker 5 (23:29):
Shaudor can run if he needs to run.
Speaker 4 (23:32):
But just kind of to invalidate him in that way
and say, well, he's not what we're looking for, well,
my first question is how the hell of we.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
Like you?
Speaker 4 (23:42):
Hear people say or dy Well like they said this, yeah,
put a name on it. But for me, I think
this is way to kind of undercut him. But also
this is technically the Lion season. Certain people can say
things about players to devalue them so other teams can
pick them at the right spots as well.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
By the way, Daniel Jeremiah said today that he has
cam Ward as the same rating as bo Nicks last year.
That just shows you how great the quarterback class was
last year and kind of how lowly it's viewed this year.
Speaker 5 (24:14):
Absolutely.
Speaker 7 (24:15):
Three big retirement news the athletics. Diana Rassini has reported
that Travis Kelcey is leaning towards returning in twenty twenty five.
That said, it could get a little messy, as Kelsey
is also due nearly twenty million dollars next year and
Kansas City can save over seventeen million dollars.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
By cutting or trading him.
Speaker 7 (24:39):
Kansas City also only has eight million dollars in cast
space as it currently stands, and six starters set to
become unrestricted free agents. With that cocktail coming together here,
do you think we see Kelsey in a different uniform
in twenty twenty five And if so, how interested. Should
the Broncos be in adding this long time rival.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Well, I think the Broncos could be interested in it,
but there's no way he's playing for anyone else. Em
and Patrick Mahomes are one A and one B. They're together,
two p's in a pod. He's not gonna play anywhere else.
He's gonna play for the Kansas City Chiefs or he's
going to retire.
Speaker 4 (25:14):
I definitely agree with you, and Brett Beach has done
a broken job for the past couple of years, kind
of working the salary cab. If anything, I think Travis
Kelsey would be willing to take a reduced salary to
bring some of those other players back. But I'm with you,
he's not gonna play in any other jersey. You bt
to Kansasy to the chief Jersey.
Speaker 7 (25:32):
Or Zach Martin, another major retirement here, is reportedly planning
to retire. According to the NFL Networks Tom Pellisero, Martin's
seven First Team All pros is the most ever.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
At the guard position.
Speaker 7 (25:49):
Another crazy stat here, he also has more total All
Pro selections first and second team he get with nine
that he has accepted holding penalties against him in his
entire NFL career. Considering that, do you think Zach Martin
is the greatest offensive guard in NFL history? A seven
team All priss is the most ever rightest position. And
(26:10):
where do you think he ranks among all time Dallas
Cowboy greats.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Well, I think he's up there amongst Dallas Cowboys greats,
but sadly another great Dallas Cowboys player without a playoff win,
I believe. But I think he's a first ballot Hall
of Famer. And that stat you threw out there of
was nine All Pro selections and seven holding pill nibbies
in his career.
Speaker 7 (26:32):
Yes, and even if you want to again narrow the
scope to only first team All Pro selections, then it's equal.
He is as many first team All Pro selections as
he does offensive holding penalties.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Dang, yeah, I mean, I mean, you have.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Some great guards of all time, Bruce Matthews, Larry Allen,
but Zach Martin has a case.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
I think. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
I think he's clearly a first ballot Hall of Famer
in my opinion, hall.
Speaker 4 (26:55):
Of famer, one thing best guard of all time in NFL,
I think, not like you have Bruce Matthews, who was
one heck of a guard himself, But for me, Larry Island.
When I came in the league, I got Larry Allen
on the back end of his career, but he still punch.
(27:15):
He has a heavy punch. And I could say that
because I was one of.
Speaker 5 (27:19):
The guys he.
Speaker 4 (27:21):
So I got a first hand, up close account of
what Larry Allen Stritt.
Speaker 5 (27:27):
Was deep into his career.
Speaker 4 (27:28):
That was a guy who was big and you think
that he couldn't run, I've seen him chase down guys.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Before, sneaky fast, sneaky fast.
Speaker 5 (27:38):
So that is the best guard of all time for me.
Five love the choice there.
Speaker 7 (27:44):
ESPN's Matt Bowen has labeled the Denver Broncos as the
best potential fit for Chiefs linebacker Nick Bolton and Vikings
running back Aaron Jones in his early list of the
top fifty free agentcy would you like to see either
of those two plays?
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Are both of those players in orange and blue?
Speaker 7 (28:02):
And are there any other free agents that catch your
eyes as options that would fit well in Denver?
Speaker 1 (28:08):
I said, I wanted to revisit this conversation next week,
So when revisit it right now, yes, and yes, you
give me Nick Bolton. I think he's a better fit
for this Broncos defense than Zach Bond and cheaper for
what the Broncos are looking for. And Aaron Jones, I
still think he has a lot of gas left in
the tank, and I do not view him as a
(28:28):
finesse player. I view him as a player that can
do both things. So he can run outside the tackles
and he can run.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
Inside the tackles.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
I think Ryan Edwards said it the other day on
KA Sports. He had like four point five yards per
carry this year. You don't get four point five yards
per carry if you can't run inside the tackles.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Look.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
I like the idea of both players, and I think
Aaron Jones would do a great job here as Denver Bronco.
Speaker 5 (28:50):
I mean, just my bias is towards physicality.
Speaker 4 (28:54):
Yes. Can he be a physical player, Absolutely? But do
I think there are other backs that are more physical
then he is. Absolutely. But if the Broncos were to
acquire both of those guys, listen, I'll live with it,
and I'll be happy.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Any other free agents catching your.
Speaker 5 (29:09):
Eye, let's talk about it, all right.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
That's a tease right there in the radio business.
Speaker 7 (29:15):
Six last one for you here, The Athletic released It's
fifty under forty lists today, highlighting the fifty most influential
figures in the NFL landscape today. The list includes two
Denver Broncos, as well as nineteen minority figures and four
women across coaching, front office, administrative and agent roles. What
(29:37):
detail on that list stands out to you the most
and does this represent progress in the NFL's hiring and
interview practices in your eyes?
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Well, I still think the hiring practices are kind of
a sham for the NFL. You know, everyone just kind
of has their guy and then they fulfill the Rooney rule,
but to their credit. I mean nineteen minority coaches and
front office business figures.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Agent's on the list.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Seven minority coaches, three agents, two minority CEOs, four women.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
I mean there is progress being.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Made, but I think it's just because people are realizing that, hey,
these are the best people.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
For the job.
Speaker 5 (30:14):
Well, progress is slowly being made.
Speaker 4 (30:17):
Is good to see that individuals being recognized the way
that they are now posted what it was twenty years ago?
Speaker 5 (30:23):
Is it exactly where it needs to be? Absolutely not?
Speaker 4 (30:27):
And as I look at some of this this list
of what's fifty under forty lists. I don't know how
old Kyle Sheenian is, but he can't be over forty
is he?
Speaker 5 (30:38):
Because he's up there.
Speaker 7 (30:39):
He's surprisingly I think he's about fifty. Actually, No, Kyle
years old kid.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
I can see him being over forty. But there's one
way he's over fifty.
Speaker 5 (30:52):
No, I can't.
Speaker 4 (30:52):
I can't.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
He split the difference forty five.
Speaker 7 (30:55):
He's looked a little great and he's agent like Obama
out there, but before presidency here after presidency.
Speaker 5 (31:05):
It's great to see some progress. I would love to.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
See some more minorities on this list, and I would
encourage the NFL to give more people opportunities.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
So you know who I'm surprised to see on this list,
Liam Cohendall.
Speaker 5 (31:23):
Henry, if I catch you, I got my eye. Well,
he's unaffording. He's a head coach, so we're.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
Hoping for something good better than this.
Speaker 7 (31:34):
Another name that I think is an interesting one, Davis Webb,
is one of the two Broncos inclusions on this list.
I don't think many people will be surprised by that.
The other one, though, is not a super well known name.
Let me see Ali Engel engel Kin. Yeah, the VP
and director of the Denver Broncos Foundation. I know for
my time working at Chassell before I came here, she
was instrumental to making flag football varsity high school sport
(31:58):
here in Colorado.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
So cool to see her, Max. I'm glad to give
her some love. She does so much great work behind
the scenes. And that's the thing about these NFL organizations,
so many people behind the scenes that are making a difference.
Speaker 7 (32:09):
Only charity leader or figure. And to be in the
top fifty to my life.
Speaker 5 (32:14):
Wow, all right, Chris Benjo's not on this list.
Speaker 4 (32:20):
He's the new special teams goes for the New York Jets.
Speaker 7 (32:23):
So only special teams coordinator on the list is Jeremy
Springer of the Patriots.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Maybe next year for Chris Bancho.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
I think it would make This was a lot of
fun as always, Man, we'll get to do this all
next week together. Oh next week, Go Usa, Go Usa.
I'm Grant Smith. We got BUFS prime time coming up
next right here on KOA A fifty am ninety four
to one FM news Talk Sports,
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