July 15, 2024 • 12 mins
Lerman is in a 3-way race for the Democrat Primary in the Palm Beach County State Attorney seat.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hi, Joel Malcolm Ford wj andO dot com. My election spotlight is
on the pomp Beach County State attorneysrace, a rare race. Ad that
you had the incumbent, Dave Ehrenberg, I believe, serving three terms and
deciding that he does not want afourth one. So we have three candidates
(00:21):
running in this race, including theone we're talking to now, Greg Lherman.
Thank you for joining me. Greg, Thank you. All right,
So we've got three attorneys. Now. I've heard you know. I'm a
news guy. I'm a local newsguy. So I've heard of you because
I you know, I'll watch theTV and you'll come on as a consultant
sometimes talk about different news stories orwhatnot. And but for folks that maybe
(00:44):
you're not a household name, whydon't you share some background on you.
So I've been a board certified criminaldefense attorneys. I've been practicing for thirty
nine years in Palm Beach County,raised two children here, one's thirty six
and one twenty train and just gother master's degree from the University of Florida.
I like to put that in becauseI'm prop of that fact. Gotcha
(01:06):
and married for thirty nine years aswell. I was a public defender for
three years. The last thirty sixi've been in private practice. I did.
Since people tend to ask what experienceI have as a prosecutor, I
did teach the prosecutors at behest ofTed Boris, who was not a judge
at the time. He was thehead of County Court in the State Attorney's
(01:30):
Office, and he'd asked me torun the Certified Legal Interns program for NOVA
in Pombag County in the fifteenth Circuit. I taught prosecutors how to be prosecutors,
which is something that I think addsto my background and my ability to
teach the young lawyers, especially assistantstate attorneys, how to do their job
(01:53):
and how to do it correctly well. And that you you jumped on a
question I had. I wasn't gonnaask it that way, but you do
you know, you do have twoopponents, both currently working at the State
Attorney's Office. Obviously, you knowas prosecuting attorneys, you're a defense attorney
(02:14):
to anybody that might question question that. You know you just mentioned the teaching
thing, but I didn't know ifyou wanted to go any further into that.
As far as I think that fromthe outside, some people might think,
you know, well, he's beenrepresenting, you know, people accused
of crime so long. You know, how's this going to work? So
(02:35):
it really is pretty easy. Anydefense attorney I know could be a prosecutor
tomorrow, And that's just the fact, just like prosecutors oftentimes become defense attorneys.
And sometimes the same question is asked. A couple of weeks ago,
at two different meetings on the sameday days, Arenberg was asked why he
was leaving, and he said,because there's a need for change, and
(03:02):
there's a need for a new perspectivein the office, and you're not going
to get that by simply elevating twopeople from within the office. If there's
need for change in a new perspective, it has to come from outside the
office. I saw a bunch ofissues and problems, and no one else
is willing to step up from outsidelooking in and challenge either of the two
(03:27):
current assistants. And quite honestly,why are there two assistants state attorneys running
against each other. I think thatis a signal that there's a problem in
the office. I certainly identified thatproblem, and as a defense attorney who's
practiced for thirty nine years. Ihave dealt with each in every part of
that office, from Belglade to PalmBeach Gardens to Delray Beach to West Palm
(03:54):
Beach, from County Court to CircuitCourt, which is a selling court to
capital cases and post conviction and appeals. I know the youngest lawyers that started
yesterday, and I know the oldestlawyers who have been there as long as
I've been practicing. So unlike myopponents who are really limited in their so
(04:16):
called niche of where they are inthe office, I know more about that
office and the lawyers that are workingthere than the lawyers that are in there
now and that I'm running against.And I can bring that unique perspective as
to the causes of crime, howyou can solve some of those causes and
(04:38):
create policies that will actually help peopleto keep them from being recidivous and keep
them from committing crimes again, andhow we can keep them out of the
system to start with by reaching intothe high schools and middle schools and even
elementary schools and neighborhoods to try tokeep people from getting involved with criminal activity.
(05:00):
The drug issues, or mental healthissues, or even homeless issues,
which are kind of those three thingsare wrapped up into one one ball more
often than not. Yeah, andthis is you know, so you're talking
about drug courts and this and thatand giving someone a second chance. What
would you say to somebody that,uh, maybe has a loved one that
(05:23):
was a victim of crime. Youknow, we'll often hear these cries of
why did they give them a pleadeal or her a plea deal? You
know, they should have they shouldhave rite it in prison. You know
that. I'm sure you you asa defense attorney, you probably will hear
that from from from the other side. What do you say to somebody about
that, you know, because sometimeswe do hear about these plea deals.
Well, I want to explain somethingto you and to your listeners about who
(05:47):
I am and what my background is, not just as a lawyer, but
as a citizen of Pomda County,a citizen of South Florida. I've been
in the victim shoes and people needto understand and quite honestly, I think
it speaks to my integrity. Myown sister, who is eighteen months younger
than I am, so she's sixtythree sixty two. At this point,
(06:11):
she was hit not once but twiceby a drunk driver. The second time,
she was in a coma for sixmonths. I remember standing in the
emergency room and trying to put myfist through the wall. At that time,
I was the head of the NationalAssociation of Criminal Defense Lawyer's DUI Defense
Task Force. I had to stepin and deal with both the defense attorney
(06:38):
and the prosecutor, who quite honestlymee a one who knew what they were
doing. And I dealt with thatcase. And I've had family members that
have been sexually assaulted. And Ihave a brother in law who had a
severe drug problem, and until threeyears ago, i'd be thought he was
going to die from that drug problem. And now he's been sober for the
last three years after I got himinto a program. I've been there.
(07:00):
I understand what it is to bea victim in serious cases. I get
it. But at the same time, I took an oath. I raised
my hand to follow the law andupholl the Constitution. I was a defense
attorney, and I've done my jobas a defense attorney. Now as part
of that job, I try tomake sure that I'm having a positive influence
(07:29):
on those people that I represent.So if they have a drug problem,
I try to get them sober.I try to make sure they're getting into
programs. If I have a clientthat has a mental health issue, whether
it be something such as autism orschizophrenia or something else, I try to
make sure that they're getting proper treatmentand getting their medications. If they have
post traumatic stress disorder, I tryto make sure they're going to the VA
(07:54):
and doing what they need to doto get the proper treatment and keep them
out of the system. I've hada positive influence, I think on any
number of people. About three weeksago, somebody who hadn't seen in ten
years, who was definitely down theroad of being a bad guy involved in
drugs and selling drugs. He's gota job with the City of West Palm
(08:16):
Beach. He's living a great life. He's turned his life around, and
he credited me for doing that.So, you know, just because I'm
a defense attorney doesn't mean that I'mgoing to just throw things away. You
know, plea cases out for thesake of pleaing cases out. Now,
(08:37):
to address that part of your question, plea negotiations are a part and parcel
of the system. The system cannotwork without plea bargaining. We don't have
the resources, we don't have thecourt time, we don't have the lawyers
on either side, either the defenseside, the public defenders of private lawyers
or prosecutors to go to trial onevery take, and most cases need to
(09:01):
be resolved by plea bargain. Somebodyasked about the Haroof case, which is
not upon these county cases of MartinCounty case, and they said, well,
that case was pled to not guiltyby reason of insanity. This is
negas for folks that aren't. Thisis the kid that ended up basically fighting
all the guy's face and yeah,right right, ye okay, Well,
(09:24):
clearly he had mental health issues andthey were able to establish that the government
agreed, the state of Florida agreedthat he had mental health issues that mitigated
what had happened, and that hewas not guilty by reason of insanity.
So why are you going to takethree, four or five weeks of trial
time, pick a jury of atleast fourteen people twelve plus others that sit
(09:48):
in case somebody gets six, sofourteen people and take that time when there's
not a question, so you resolvethat case. And even the clown case
where the woman was a used asdressing as a clown and killing her back
in the nineties years right, right, but it was recently resolved. Well,
clearly there were problems in that casefor the state. So you want
(10:11):
to get something there has and youdon't do it without the consent and the
serious cases of the family, youwill. First of all, we have
Marcy's Law. So Marcy's Law saysyou have to consult with the family.
Now that doesn't mean they get aveto, but you consult with them and
make sure they understand what's going onand why something is happening. And it
happens all the time. It hasto happen. If it doesn't happen,
(10:33):
the system will break down, nothingwill get accomplished, cases will take years
to get resolved, and the systemwill just back up. All right.
And then my final question is threecandidates, And you've hit on some of
this obviously, but in a nutshell, you know what makes you the best
(10:54):
candidate. It's my background. It'sthe fact that, as I've said,
I've touched every part of the office. It's the fact that I have over
three hundred plus jury trials, whetherthey're the least serious literally from driving under
a suspension to the fifteen homicide casesthat I've tried. It's the fact that
I've tried cases both in state courtand serious cases in federal court. So
(11:18):
I bring that federal experience, someof which I'd like to bring to the
office so they have a better understandingof what their ethical obligations are, as
well of what it means to bea trial lawyer and how to properly try
a case so it only gets triedonce I bring that experience. I bring
some empathy also and understanding of whatcauses crimes and what we can do.
(11:41):
Like you had mentioned earlier, drugcourt and just real briefly, drug court
is a great program, but ifyou work, you can't get into drug
court because you've got to sit theresix or seven hours a day. These
programs like that need to be expandedso that people who work and have found
themselves in the criminal justice system andkeep their job and get the benefits of
(12:03):
those type of diversion programs. I'mthe one that's thinking about those things,
thinking outside the box, thinking aboutexpanding programs and creating policies that help people
and get them out of the system, or, as I said earlier,
keep them from ever getting into thesystem. All right, well, I
appreciate you taking the time to speakwith the voters of Palm Beach County.
(12:26):
This is the Democrat primary. Ishould mention there is also a Republican primary
and an independent and NPA candidate thatis running. His name will not be
on the ballot until November. Butonce again, Greg Luherman, candidate for
Palm Beach County State Attorney, Thanksfor joining me.
Hi, Joel Malcolm Ford wj andO dot com. My election spotlight is
on the pomp Beach County State attorneysrace, a rare race. Ad that
you had the incumbent, Dave Ehrenberg, I believe, serving three terms and
deciding that he does not want afourth one. So we have three candidates
(00:21):
running in this race, including theone we're talking to now, Greg Lherman.
Thank you for joining me. Greg, Thank you. All right,
So we've got three attorneys. Now. I've heard you know. I'm a
news guy. I'm a local newsguy. So I've heard of you because
I you know, I'll watch theTV and you'll come on as a consultant
sometimes talk about different news stories orwhatnot. And but for folks that maybe
(00:44):
you're not a household name, whydon't you share some background on you.
So I've been a board certified criminaldefense attorneys. I've been practicing for thirty
nine years in Palm Beach County,raised two children here, one's thirty six
and one twenty train and just gother master's degree from the University of Florida.
I like to put that in becauseI'm prop of that fact. Gotcha
(01:06):
and married for thirty nine years aswell. I was a public defender for
three years. The last thirty sixi've been in private practice. I did.
Since people tend to ask what experienceI have as a prosecutor, I
did teach the prosecutors at behest ofTed Boris, who was not a judge
at the time. He was thehead of County Court in the State Attorney's
(01:30):
Office, and he'd asked me torun the Certified Legal Interns program for NOVA
in Pombag County in the fifteenth Circuit. I taught prosecutors how to be prosecutors,
which is something that I think addsto my background and my ability to
teach the young lawyers, especially assistantstate attorneys, how to do their job
(01:53):
and how to do it correctly well. And that you you jumped on a
question I had. I wasn't gonnaask it that way, but you do
you know, you do have twoopponents, both currently working at the State
Attorney's Office. Obviously, you knowas prosecuting attorneys, you're a defense attorney
(02:14):
to anybody that might question question that. You know you just mentioned the teaching
thing, but I didn't know ifyou wanted to go any further into that.
As far as I think that fromthe outside, some people might think,
you know, well, he's beenrepresenting, you know, people accused
of crime so long. You know, how's this going to work? So
(02:35):
it really is pretty easy. Anydefense attorney I know could be a prosecutor
tomorrow, And that's just the fact, just like prosecutors oftentimes become defense attorneys.
And sometimes the same question is asked. A couple of weeks ago,
at two different meetings on the sameday days, Arenberg was asked why he
was leaving, and he said,because there's a need for change, and
(03:02):
there's a need for a new perspectivein the office, and you're not going
to get that by simply elevating twopeople from within the office. If there's
need for change in a new perspective, it has to come from outside the
office. I saw a bunch ofissues and problems, and no one else
is willing to step up from outsidelooking in and challenge either of the two
(03:27):
current assistants. And quite honestly,why are there two assistants state attorneys running
against each other. I think thatis a signal that there's a problem in
the office. I certainly identified thatproblem, and as a defense attorney who's
practiced for thirty nine years. Ihave dealt with each in every part of
that office, from Belglade to PalmBeach Gardens to Delray Beach to West Palm
(03:54):
Beach, from County Court to CircuitCourt, which is a selling court to
capital cases and post conviction and appeals. I know the youngest lawyers that started
yesterday, and I know the oldestlawyers who have been there as long as
I've been practicing. So unlike myopponents who are really limited in their so
(04:16):
called niche of where they are inthe office, I know more about that
office and the lawyers that are workingthere than the lawyers that are in there
now and that I'm running against.And I can bring that unique perspective as
to the causes of crime, howyou can solve some of those causes and
(04:38):
create policies that will actually help peopleto keep them from being recidivous and keep
them from committing crimes again, andhow we can keep them out of the
system to start with by reaching intothe high schools and middle schools and even
elementary schools and neighborhoods to try tokeep people from getting involved with criminal activity.
(05:00):
The drug issues, or mental healthissues, or even homeless issues,
which are kind of those three thingsare wrapped up into one one ball more
often than not. Yeah, andthis is you know, so you're talking
about drug courts and this and thatand giving someone a second chance. What
would you say to somebody that,uh, maybe has a loved one that
(05:23):
was a victim of crime. Youknow, we'll often hear these cries of
why did they give them a pleadeal or her a plea deal? You
know, they should have they shouldhave rite it in prison. You know
that. I'm sure you you asa defense attorney, you probably will hear
that from from from the other side. What do you say to somebody about
that, you know, because sometimeswe do hear about these plea deals.
Well, I want to explain somethingto you and to your listeners about who
(05:47):
I am and what my background is, not just as a lawyer, but
as a citizen of Pomda County,a citizen of South Florida. I've been
in the victim shoes and people needto understand and quite honestly, I think
it speaks to my integrity. Myown sister, who is eighteen months younger
than I am, so she's sixtythree sixty two. At this point,
(06:11):
she was hit not once but twiceby a drunk driver. The second time,
she was in a coma for sixmonths. I remember standing in the
emergency room and trying to put myfist through the wall. At that time,
I was the head of the NationalAssociation of Criminal Defense Lawyer's DUI Defense
Task Force. I had to stepin and deal with both the defense attorney
(06:38):
and the prosecutor, who quite honestlymee a one who knew what they were
doing. And I dealt with thatcase. And I've had family members that
have been sexually assaulted. And Ihave a brother in law who had a
severe drug problem, and until threeyears ago, i'd be thought he was
going to die from that drug problem. And now he's been sober for the
last three years after I got himinto a program. I've been there.
(07:00):
I understand what it is to bea victim in serious cases. I get
it. But at the same time, I took an oath. I raised
my hand to follow the law andupholl the Constitution. I was a defense
attorney, and I've done my jobas a defense attorney. Now as part
of that job, I try tomake sure that I'm having a positive influence
(07:29):
on those people that I represent.So if they have a drug problem,
I try to get them sober.I try to make sure they're getting into
programs. If I have a clientthat has a mental health issue, whether
it be something such as autism orschizophrenia or something else, I try to
make sure that they're getting proper treatmentand getting their medications. If they have
post traumatic stress disorder, I tryto make sure they're going to the VA
(07:54):
and doing what they need to doto get the proper treatment and keep them
out of the system. I've hada positive influence, I think on any
number of people. About three weeksago, somebody who hadn't seen in ten
years, who was definitely down theroad of being a bad guy involved in
drugs and selling drugs. He's gota job with the City of West Palm
(08:16):
Beach. He's living a great life. He's turned his life around, and
he credited me for doing that.So, you know, just because I'm
a defense attorney doesn't mean that I'mgoing to just throw things away. You
know, plea cases out for thesake of pleaing cases out. Now,
(08:37):
to address that part of your question, plea negotiations are a part and parcel
of the system. The system cannotwork without plea bargaining. We don't have
the resources, we don't have thecourt time, we don't have the lawyers
on either side, either the defenseside, the public defenders of private lawyers
or prosecutors to go to trial onevery take, and most cases need to
(09:01):
be resolved by plea bargain. Somebodyasked about the Haroof case, which is
not upon these county cases of MartinCounty case, and they said, well,
that case was pled to not guiltyby reason of insanity. This is
negas for folks that aren't. Thisis the kid that ended up basically fighting
all the guy's face and yeah,right right, ye okay, Well,
(09:24):
clearly he had mental health issues andthey were able to establish that the government
agreed, the state of Florida agreedthat he had mental health issues that mitigated
what had happened, and that hewas not guilty by reason of insanity.
So why are you going to takethree, four or five weeks of trial
time, pick a jury of atleast fourteen people twelve plus others that sit
(09:48):
in case somebody gets six, sofourteen people and take that time when there's
not a question, so you resolvethat case. And even the clown case
where the woman was a used asdressing as a clown and killing her back
in the nineties years right, right, but it was recently resolved. Well,
clearly there were problems in that casefor the state. So you want
(10:11):
to get something there has and youdon't do it without the consent and the
serious cases of the family, youwill. First of all, we have
Marcy's Law. So Marcy's Law saysyou have to consult with the family.
Now that doesn't mean they get aveto, but you consult with them and
make sure they understand what's going onand why something is happening. And it
happens all the time. It hasto happen. If it doesn't happen,
(10:33):
the system will break down, nothingwill get accomplished, cases will take years
to get resolved, and the systemwill just back up. All right.
And then my final question is threecandidates, And you've hit on some of
this obviously, but in a nutshell, you know what makes you the best
(10:54):
candidate. It's my background. It'sthe fact that, as I've said,
I've touched every part of the office. It's the fact that I have over
three hundred plus jury trials, whetherthey're the least serious literally from driving under
a suspension to the fifteen homicide casesthat I've tried. It's the fact that
I've tried cases both in state courtand serious cases in federal court. So
(11:18):
I bring that federal experience, someof which I'd like to bring to the
office so they have a better understandingof what their ethical obligations are, as
well of what it means to bea trial lawyer and how to properly try
a case so it only gets triedonce I bring that experience. I bring
some empathy also and understanding of whatcauses crimes and what we can do.
(11:41):
Like you had mentioned earlier, drugcourt and just real briefly, drug court
is a great program, but ifyou work, you can't get into drug
court because you've got to sit theresix or seven hours a day. These
programs like that need to be expandedso that people who work and have found
themselves in the criminal justice system andkeep their job and get the benefits of
(12:03):
those type of diversion programs. I'mthe one that's thinking about those things,
thinking outside the box, thinking aboutexpanding programs and creating policies that help people
and get them out of the system, or, as I said earlier,
keep them from ever getting into thesystem. All right, well, I
appreciate you taking the time to speakwith the voters of Palm Beach County.
(12:26):
This is the Democrat primary. Ishould mention there is also a Republican primary
and an independent and NPA candidate thatis running. His name will not be
on the ballot until November. Butonce again, Greg Luherman, candidate for
Palm Beach County State Attorney, Thanksfor joining me.
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