August 8, 2024 • 30 mins
“Taking a look at the Adult Employment Services offered to adults with autism by accomplished local agency and why this agency far exceeds others nationally.” vistaautismservices.org
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, I'm Sylvia Moss, and this is insight presentation of iHeartMedia,
where we really do care about our local communities and
all our listeners who live here. If anything, gives credence
to the phrase that begins with, don't assume. It's a
topic that we're going to discuss today. About ten maybe
fifteen years ago when I started addressing the topic of
(00:21):
autism on this program, one out of one hundred and
twenty five children were being diagnosed with autism at that time.
Now that number is one out of thirty six. So
to better understand, correct and prove that you should not
assume what you think you know about autism, I'm going
to give you a couple of the most common misperceptions.
(00:42):
First of all, autism is a learning disability. That is
not true. People with autism don't feel emotion bloney. All
autistic people have special abilities, know some like the rest
of us do and some don't. And the biggest lie,
the one that we're gonna focus on today, is autistic
people can't work and live independently. Many autistic people do
(01:07):
live independent lives and lives, and the statement that they
do not is going to be totally annihilated by my guests. Today,
there are services or children with autism, but still not enough.
On a national level, for adult eighteen and over, available
services are a little over twenty percent. However, here in
central Pennsylvania, Vistem Autism Services in Hershey provides remarkable services
(01:31):
for adults in Cumberland, Dauphin, and Lebanon counties. In fact,
it's about a thirty mile radius of Hershey that they
provide their services. In fact, their adult employment services should
be used as a model for others who attempt the
same with us. Today from VISA Autism Services are enzi
Uban Allen. She is the CEO Mary Lou Winners as
(01:54):
the manager of Visa's Adult Employment Services team. Before we
go any further, guys, just jump in. Let's talk about
some of these things and just give me a general
idea about why it is not true autism is a
learning disability.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
How about that, Mary Lou?
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Is it so autism is considered a developmental disability. It's
a difference, and the difference would be that a learning
disability is trouble learning new information, whereas a developmental disability.
In this case, the characteristics are really the ability to
process and engage in social interactions.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
So you don't learn this, this is something in your brain.
You're born with it. Correct, Okay, that's interesting. People with
autism don't have emotion? Well I would think that people
think that because a lot of times they're quiet because
of the social part of it.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Right, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
So we just talked about, you know, the processing and
engaging in social interactions. So rather than you know, assuming
that someone doesn't have emotional feelings, it's really understanding that
they just have a little bit more trouble kind of
uh explaining that or expressing what their feelings are.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
All autistic people have special abilities.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
We got there.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
I think people when that movie rain Man came out,
that was that was not something that was a gift
for people with autism that went to the other It
shouldn't have been that way.
Speaker 4 (03:20):
Because everybody pigeonhole.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Yeah they pigeonhole. They think everybody's like that not true?
Is it true that every person has like some type
of special ability.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
So what you're talking about is considered, you know, like
a savant ability. So you know, everybody with autism might
not have those Soviet you know, but I would say
that everybody with autism has, you know, unique talents and skills,
and again, you know, sometimes it's difficult for these individuals
to express them or tell us what their talents are,
(03:53):
or even show us what their talents are. So I
think that's what we do really well here at best
to autism sir is understanding all of the characteristics of
autism and really knowing how to not only teach individuals
with autism, but pull those skills out and showcase them,
you know, across all age groups and abilities and you know,
(04:18):
ways of communicating. We kind of pull those those talents
and skills out.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Before we talk more about how the school started, the
services start, and everything. The German family, I want to
ask both, if you don't mind, it's not anything we've
known about this since the early nineteen hundreds, but why
all of a sudden over the last ten or fifteen
years are we hearing about it. And I'll be honest
with you, I had a researcher from the Gey Singer
(04:45):
telling me they're going to cut they're close to finding
out what causes it. I mean, you've heard how many
people ten fifteen years ago didn't get shots for their
kids because they were told they'll develop autism which was belonging.
We don't really truly know where it comes.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
Exactly, right, Yeah, and there's many theories on that, whether
is it environmental, is it the age of parents when
they're conceiving the kind it's all kinds of stuff. And
I think nowadays because of research and just further for
the research and individuals looking in the field of autism
(05:25):
and testing and developmentally, you know, that's why we're seeing
more of it, because there is if you want an
individual to be assessed for special ed or whatnot, okay,
well we burdo a neurotest on the individual and to
see do they have autism or any other disability. So
(05:47):
I think more and more testing is being done. So
then hence you're seeing more individuals who are being diagnosed
and a more understanding. To get away from that rain
Man theory of how it's autism is a spectrum, right,
you know, right, it's a spectrum disorder and there's higher
functioning and there's lower functioning. It's all and all in between.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Well, I remember from years ago you couldn't have a
child evaluated until they were eighteen months old. Is it
still that way?
Speaker 2 (06:18):
We're even older?
Speaker 4 (06:19):
I think and nowadays, I think it's lower the threshold
to the evaluations that can happen because now there is
the research and information and experts who know how to
test children developmentally.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Okay, where they should be at a certain point in
their lives. But that's boloney too, because you know how
that is, you'll have kids. I know of this young
lady who didn't speak, she was four years old. They
diagnosed her with autism. She did all of a sudden,
she started talking. She just got her masters. And I mean,
you don't know how this, but those support services are
what's important and what goes along in Something I was
(07:00):
going to ask you about was the German family. Thank
God for people like that. Incredible talk to us about that.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
Incredible. So the Jarmans, Mike Michael Jarman and his wife
Deirdre Jarman had twenty years ago, twenty plus years ago,
had twin boys who were diagnosed with autism. Back then,
it was during the days when not a lot was
known about autism, and so he at the time, and
(07:27):
Mike Jarman was a lawyer at the time, he went
to Rutgers University and went and found clinicians to bring
to their home. So basically they created an autism program
for their twins. Wow, in their house, so true mom
and pop operation. And they were using funds, their own
(07:48):
personal funds and quite a bit of it to pay
these clinicians who were you know, providing the autism services
for their sons. And many people would be knocking on
their door saying, oh, we hear you have this autism program,
and the Garmans were explaining that, no, we're just you know,
trying to help out our kids. They heard this more
(08:11):
and more, more and more people who obviously many people
did not have the personal funds that the Germans had.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
To create exactly.
Speaker 4 (08:19):
So then what the Garmans decided, we've got to do
something and kudos there and totally could have walked away.
It would have been easy, would have walked away. And
they found other friends who had small children with autism.
I think it was maybe four or six families that
got together and basically because they weren't able to get
(08:42):
the education that they felt, you know, their children needed
in the school system. As you Sylvia, you pointed out,
people no dis to the school system, none whatsoever at
that time, still not understanding what is needed. Autism is
still very new So they had these clinicians, you know,
(09:03):
teach their kids, do therapies with their kids until they
got to kindergarten and then it's like, now what are
we gonna do? So then they said, okay, well we
bears create somewhat of an elementary sort of school, and
we're in different parts of central Pennsylvania, you know, in
in a business office area. And then eventually to two
(09:30):
thousand and eleven where the Vista School that you spoke
about in Hershey in Springboard, Springboard is the location and
where then it was created this school from K to
twelve kind of thing. And again these are children who
(09:51):
are have been identified as individuals who cannot make it
in the regular public school system. So they come to
us because of the behaviors that they have and what
they're going through. And we're in a school that, as
Mary lou said, we have the expertise to teach and
(10:15):
to learn what what is needed to bring out those
the strengths that are individuals.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Like correct me, please if I'm wrong. There are a
lot of people who are in that spectrum who are brilliant,
there are people who are average, there are people just
like us, like anybody, and that is a just like
they say, it has something to do with the brain.
It's not a choice. So what you guys do is
you have the capability to work with every level of
(10:47):
these children in the time they're a little on upright.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
And exactly on up.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
And so you're starting, like we have an early intervention
program that starts with the kids as you were talking
about two, and I think we're even starting at eighteen
eighteen months and going right up to adulthood. And again
those early intervention the children who are identified when their
toddlers are younger. With early intervention, you're going to have
(11:18):
more success rate of success than coming later on. So
it's all about if you put in a lot at
the beginning, you're not going to have to be investing
so many more. You know, legislators say dollars, Yeah, later.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
On, legislators tell me about that. Have supportive? Have the
legislature been the legislation I know the governor just uped it.
Speaker 4 (11:46):
Yes, the budget and the rates and the rates has
been helpful, has been helpful, and we are greatly very
thankful for that. We would still say, though there's more
that you know can be done, especially when we look
at approved the funds for the approved private schools, where
(12:08):
when we're talking about our school decade of twelve, the
funding it's still insufficient because that funding helps school districts
to kind of maybe, let's say, take the edge off
of how much the school district would be on for
to educate an individual who has autism, because it is costly,
(12:31):
you know, the.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Ratio to staff and where you are. But that's another
thing I wanted to ask you. At what point do
you work towards the point where all these children eventually
go to another school or do they stay at Vista
till till they're eighteen years old?
Speaker 4 (12:48):
For the most part, they do stay at Vista. And
we will say also we do have another program called
the Cove program, which is a program in Carlisle School
District where we have Vista staff who are implanted in
the school in the school district, working side by side
(13:11):
with the other general ed educators. Where is where is
like the Capital Area Intermediate Union in this part? How
do they with kids like that?
Speaker 2 (13:24):
That's something Mary lou probably.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Yes, So we're not necessarily connected to no intermediate units.
There are a few in the area.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Is that the question I would imagine they get the
kids that need some support. Do they sometimes refer those
children to you?
Speaker 3 (13:40):
In some cases we do work together, yes.
Speaker 4 (13:44):
Yeah, because our students And that's the other thing, you know,
parents hear about Vista, I want in I want my
child to go to Vista, right, And we work very
closely with the school districts because the school districts need
to refer students to us. Mom and dad can't just hey,
I want my child to go here, because of course,
(14:06):
as we all know, the.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
School district has budgets and they well, so do you.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
Yeah, And some school districts, now as we've been talking
more knowledge about autism, there are some schools who are saying, hey,
we can do this. We can provide those supports and
resources and have at it. And that's great if you can.
It's important that it's done properly and with the staff
(14:32):
who has the expertise, and we certainly have a track
record of twenty years plus right, having the staff and
the modality of therapy to support our students so that
once they leave high school and Mary Lou's going to
talk about it, then they'll go into adult services and
(14:52):
what's needed there. But it is an line of expertise,
and I think has happened in the last few years.
There are now for profit companies that are offering autism
services and they're looking at the bottom line making the profit.
(15:13):
They might not be doing it exactly in the exact
way that's to.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
The advantage of what effective child Well, how do you
determine that? How do you find out if, like say,
somebody comes in said, I heard you this, blah blah blah,
how do you find out if they measure up to Vista.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
Well, and I don't want, you know, our competitors out
there to say, hey, Vista, Vista, I do we believe,
we believe we have a model that works and families. Yeah,
and it's data driven data research. It's not just we're
saying it like we're you know, we're documenting, we're calculating,
(15:56):
we can show the success and the accomplishments.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Because it is.
Speaker 4 (16:03):
It's data driven and that's the bottom line kind of thing.
I believe other programs, especially if we're looking at the
for profit, they're still I.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Think trying to understand that. I'll put it that way.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
They see it as a way to make it money,
like most things. And Mary got to talk to you
you have dealt with over three hundred kind of compliance right, yeah, okay,
we were talking about evaluation when a child is very young.
As you said, Anzie, that's the best way to do.
Want it to work out, okay, but they have to
(16:40):
be evaluated. How is that evaluation done when the kids
well let's talk about well switch gears and go from
adults or from children to adults. So you have a
kid's eighteen years old, what do you look for how
do you evaluate them to see if they're ready to
go out and get a job.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
Yeah, sure, a great question. I'm going to talk a
little bit more in general than just employment, but really
we work closely with school districts, with you know, staff
members at the Vista School wherever these students are graduating
from and sort of learn about, you know, what what
is what are their hopes and dreams, what could life
look like for them? And that's typically a combination of
(17:20):
a lot of different services. So at Vista we provide
day services that's more like leisure activities, volunteer opportunities, you know,
go out in the community and just be a part
of the community. We have an in home an intensive
in home program where for individuals that have you know,
(17:41):
more intensive behaviors and need to be able to you know,
be in a safe environment. We have staff that go
into the home help them with you know, skills of
daily living, leisure activities. They do also go out in
the community and engage in leisure activities and things in
the community. And then we have our employment program, which
I'm obviously a little bit biased that, yeah, and then
(18:05):
we also have a really wonderful service called behavior support
services and uh those are trained clinicians in terms of
helping people, uh live their best life when it comes
to their behaviors. So if if somebody is really engaging
in some undesirable behaviors, we're gonna spend a lot of
time learning why and giving them replacement behaviors that, you know,
(18:30):
sometimes if it's just I don't feel well and I
don't know how to tell you, you know, those replacement
behaviors of just you know, being able to express how
you're feeling. And those behavior support services can overlap any
of our other services.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
And you combine, like the adult service, employment services with
the residential you have all kinds of work things out right.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
Yes, absolutely, so, Visa doesn't have we don't have our
own residential program, but we work with lots and lots
of individuals that live in residential settings. And again it's
really that you know, culmination of all the services that
they need to live out their hopes and dreams. So
I might work a few days, engage in some leisure
activities in the community, and live at a residential home
(19:10):
all at one time. So going back to your question
about evaluations, it's really what are their hopes and dreams?
What are the services available to provide those services so
that they can engage in whatever they want to do
in life? And then, you know the most challenging question,
then what funding do they have available to pay for
(19:31):
those services? So we work really closely with you know,
staff members and families when students are in school and
coming up to graduation. But we also work really closely
with teams of individuals that have already been long graduated
and are just now realizing that they want to work.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Okay, and typically are they minimum wage jobs or if
somebody wants to go to college, I mean, how do
you figure all this out?
Speaker 3 (19:59):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Question?
Speaker 3 (20:01):
So we get that question a lot from employers because,
as you know, when I tell you about our process.
We work really really closely with employers to help identify
good matches for the needs that they have, and they
always ask us how much should we pay them, And
the answer is as much as you would pay anyone
else to do the same work. So, you know, we've
(20:21):
got individuals working for minimum wage because they're doing a
minimum wage job, but we have individuals who are making
quite a bit more than that, you know. And it
also follows the market. You know, distribution warehouses are really
big right now and they're paying a lot, So the
individuals that we have in that industry are likely not
making minimum wage.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Okay, So you say you have a kid who wants
to go to college and they have these the social issue,
how do you get how do you make sure they're
ready to go?
Speaker 3 (20:48):
Yeah, great question. So we don't provide those kinds of
services in order to you know, support people in college,
but there are programs that you know, provide you know,
if they need someone to take notes for them, or
if they need instructional materials to be modified, things like that.
It's not something we do right now, but it is available.
(21:10):
And again, it's really just about learning. What are those
hopes and dreams what help do they need and then
you know, finding the resources for that.
Speaker 4 (21:18):
And I'd like to please interrupt us to say, as
Mary Lou talks about our employment program, when you were
talking about minimum wage or how people are paid, it
has like an eighty five percent success rate of placement
in jobs that they're competitive, competitively employed and it's not
(21:39):
piecemeal work, it's not you.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Know, we'll give you an example of a success story,
either of you or both of you.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Sure, I would love.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
To let me think of one. There's so many, So
my favorite story to share is just an individual. He
started out with us in the Vesta School. One of
the reason he came for his public school was because
he was being sent home every day and he, you know,
he was engaging in some behaviors because he couldn't express
(22:08):
his wants and needs. So we got him at the
Vista School. We started listening to him in the way
that he could communicate, teaching him better ways of communicating.
But one of the behaviors that he continued to engage in,
and this happened at home with mom as well, was
he really wanted to organize everything. So, you know, you
walk around to school and you're gonna find things out
(22:29):
of place, and those things bothered him quite a bit,
and Mom would always complain, oh my gosh, he moved
something again, he took something again. I can't find this.
He didn't think it belonged on the counter, and now
it's gone. He probably put it away somewhere. So we
actually were working with a local beverage distribution company and
(22:50):
just trying to learn what their unmet needs were. So
got a tour the warehouse, saw a pile of product
and asked what it was, and they sort of described
a situation where they, you know, a palette or the
plastic was poked on the palette and now all of
(23:11):
a sudden it's considered damaged and they can't do anything
with it. So it sits in the warehouse until it's
about to expire and they have to pull all their
workers off the floor to dump the product out because
it's expired. So they're just dumping dollar signs down the sink, right,
So they actually created a position that didn't exist before.
They hired this gentleman to come and take the palettes apart,
(23:34):
put them back together so they weren't considered damaged any longer.
Sell the product help their bottom line, and he works
five days a week. Now, he's been there first. I
think he's coming up on his eight years. And wow,
he's too tired when he gets home to move things
around at mom's house. So he's really it's really helped
mom out a little bit. But that's one of our
(23:55):
one of my favorite stories. But just to add to that,
you know, talking about individuals, he's got this amazing, incredible
skill and interest in organizing things like if I had
the money, I would hire somebody to organize my house, right,
got tons of kids at home. But this skill would
be underutilized if he didn't have an agency that could
(24:18):
provide the services to help connect him to employment, because
he couldn't walk into a warehouse and say, hey, I've
got a skill for you. I want, you know, hire me.
And we did that for him. And I also say
that he's a he's a tall, strong man, and he
also loves to shoot hoops with his coworkers. And you know,
he's been really been integrated. He's been an employee of
(24:39):
the Month several times over the years. And yeah, he's
just he's bringing more than just the you know, the
bottom line to the company.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Yeah, just a project.
Speaker 4 (24:52):
Yes, he works here and he's part of our organization.
And kudos to Mary Lou and her h employment staff
and career developers who go to these employers to say, hey,
talk to us, because many of them will say, I
can't even get the typical staff person to work these
(25:17):
jobs or to come in, and you want me to
work with someone who's got what behaviors and what going on?
Oh no, no, no, there's no way. But Mary lew
and her staff when they come in because they've been trained,
they went to University of Virginia, I believe is where
we got because they're the experts in doing this kind
of training and developing of staff to work with individuals
(25:40):
to do job and employment development, and they're able to
go in to the employer and sit down and say,
as Mary Lou said, well what's going on over there
or what are your needs? And here's how we can
join the two with an individual who, yeah, may have
certain behaviors, but they've got a gill set and be
(26:01):
able to work, and we've got the staff.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
We'll be with you.
Speaker 4 (26:03):
And I think what ends up happening is exactly like this, gentleman,
the teams and the co workers are like, oh, yeah,
that you know, he works well with this, works well
with that. As we talked, we all have certain things
that work well with us and that's just how it is.
And you know what, Vista, We're good. Thanks, thanks for
the training you've been in here. We're good. He's eight
(26:23):
years later, he's like anyone else. And at the end
of the day, when we're talking about legislators, this is
what you want to invest in because this is an
individual who is now giving back to his community. That's right,
pay in taxes or whatever. It's not looking for government
handout or subsidy. He is giving to the community.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
Well, ladies, we're gonna wrap this up in here I
go again. I get some of these problems.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
I get so wrapped up and I ask if you
please come back next week because we're not done talking
with this.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
So I want to tell my listeners.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Of course, catch Inside on one of the ten iHeart
stations this weekend if you can find it on your
favorite podcast app. With us today from Vista Autism Services
and hershey enzi Obinello CEO and Mary lou Winners, manager
Vista's Adult Employment Team, we'll talk more with you about
this next week, you're gonna want to listen. I'm Sylvia
(27:16):
Moss's has been insight. Thanks so much for listening. See
you next week.
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So what should I do with all these coals?
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Don't just toss them out? Put them in a metal
container because those embers can start a wildfire. I understand
the steaks are high.
Speaker 4 (30:15):
Ha ha ha ha.
Speaker 8 (30:17):
Learn more at smokey bear dot com.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
Brought to you by the US for Service, your state Foster,
and the AD Council
Hi, I'm Sylvia Moss, and this is insight presentation of iHeartMedia,
where we really do care about our local communities and
all our listeners who live here. If anything, gives credence
to the phrase that begins with, don't assume. It's a
topic that we're going to discuss today. About ten maybe
fifteen years ago when I started addressing the topic of
(00:21):
autism on this program, one out of one hundred and
twenty five children were being diagnosed with autism at that time.
Now that number is one out of thirty six. So
to better understand, correct and prove that you should not
assume what you think you know about autism, I'm going
to give you a couple of the most common misperceptions.
(00:42):
First of all, autism is a learning disability. That is
not true. People with autism don't feel emotion bloney. All
autistic people have special abilities, know some like the rest
of us do and some don't. And the biggest lie,
the one that we're gonna focus on today, is autistic
people can't work and live independently. Many autistic people do
(01:07):
live independent lives and lives, and the statement that they
do not is going to be totally annihilated by my guests. Today,
there are services or children with autism, but still not enough.
On a national level, for adult eighteen and over, available
services are a little over twenty percent. However, here in
central Pennsylvania, Vistem Autism Services in Hershey provides remarkable services
(01:31):
for adults in Cumberland, Dauphin, and Lebanon counties. In fact,
it's about a thirty mile radius of Hershey that they
provide their services. In fact, their adult employment services should
be used as a model for others who attempt the
same with us. Today from VISA Autism Services are enzi
Uban Allen. She is the CEO Mary Lou Winners as
(01:54):
the manager of Visa's Adult Employment Services team. Before we
go any further, guys, just jump in. Let's talk about
some of these things and just give me a general
idea about why it is not true autism is a
learning disability.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
How about that, Mary Lou?
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Is it so autism is considered a developmental disability. It's
a difference, and the difference would be that a learning
disability is trouble learning new information, whereas a developmental disability.
In this case, the characteristics are really the ability to
process and engage in social interactions.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
So you don't learn this, this is something in your brain.
You're born with it. Correct, Okay, that's interesting. People with
autism don't have emotion? Well I would think that people
think that because a lot of times they're quiet because
of the social part of it.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Right, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
So we just talked about, you know, the processing and
engaging in social interactions. So rather than you know, assuming
that someone doesn't have emotional feelings, it's really understanding that
they just have a little bit more trouble kind of
uh explaining that or expressing what their feelings are.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
All autistic people have special abilities.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
We got there.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
I think people when that movie rain Man came out,
that was that was not something that was a gift
for people with autism that went to the other It
shouldn't have been that way.
Speaker 4 (03:20):
Because everybody pigeonhole.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Yeah they pigeonhole. They think everybody's like that not true?
Is it true that every person has like some type
of special ability.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
So what you're talking about is considered, you know, like
a savant ability. So you know, everybody with autism might
not have those Soviet you know, but I would say
that everybody with autism has, you know, unique talents and skills,
and again, you know, sometimes it's difficult for these individuals
to express them or tell us what their talents are,
(03:53):
or even show us what their talents are. So I
think that's what we do really well here at best
to autism sir is understanding all of the characteristics of
autism and really knowing how to not only teach individuals
with autism, but pull those skills out and showcase them,
you know, across all age groups and abilities and you know,
(04:18):
ways of communicating. We kind of pull those those talents
and skills out.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Before we talk more about how the school started, the
services start, and everything. The German family, I want to
ask both, if you don't mind, it's not anything we've
known about this since the early nineteen hundreds, but why
all of a sudden over the last ten or fifteen
years are we hearing about it. And I'll be honest
with you, I had a researcher from the Gey Singer
(04:45):
telling me they're going to cut they're close to finding
out what causes it. I mean, you've heard how many
people ten fifteen years ago didn't get shots for their
kids because they were told they'll develop autism which was belonging.
We don't really truly know where it comes.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
Exactly, right, Yeah, and there's many theories on that, whether
is it environmental, is it the age of parents when
they're conceiving the kind it's all kinds of stuff. And
I think nowadays because of research and just further for
the research and individuals looking in the field of autism
(05:25):
and testing and developmentally, you know, that's why we're seeing
more of it, because there is if you want an
individual to be assessed for special ed or whatnot, okay,
well we burdo a neurotest on the individual and to
see do they have autism or any other disability. So
(05:47):
I think more and more testing is being done. So
then hence you're seeing more individuals who are being diagnosed
and a more understanding. To get away from that rain
Man theory of how it's autism is a spectrum, right,
you know, right, it's a spectrum disorder and there's higher
functioning and there's lower functioning. It's all and all in between.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Well, I remember from years ago you couldn't have a
child evaluated until they were eighteen months old. Is it
still that way?
Speaker 2 (06:18):
We're even older?
Speaker 4 (06:19):
I think and nowadays, I think it's lower the threshold
to the evaluations that can happen because now there is
the research and information and experts who know how to
test children developmentally.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Okay, where they should be at a certain point in
their lives. But that's boloney too, because you know how
that is, you'll have kids. I know of this young
lady who didn't speak, she was four years old. They
diagnosed her with autism. She did all of a sudden,
she started talking. She just got her masters. And I mean,
you don't know how this, but those support services are
what's important and what goes along in Something I was
(07:00):
going to ask you about was the German family. Thank
God for people like that. Incredible talk to us about that.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
Incredible. So the Jarmans, Mike Michael Jarman and his wife
Deirdre Jarman had twenty years ago, twenty plus years ago,
had twin boys who were diagnosed with autism. Back then,
it was during the days when not a lot was
known about autism, and so he at the time, and
(07:27):
Mike Jarman was a lawyer at the time, he went
to Rutgers University and went and found clinicians to bring
to their home. So basically they created an autism program
for their twins. Wow, in their house, so true mom
and pop operation. And they were using funds, their own
(07:48):
personal funds and quite a bit of it to pay
these clinicians who were you know, providing the autism services
for their sons. And many people would be knocking on
their door saying, oh, we hear you have this autism program,
and the Garmans were explaining that, no, we're just you know,
trying to help out our kids. They heard this more
(08:11):
and more, more and more people who obviously many people
did not have the personal funds that the Germans had.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
To create exactly.
Speaker 4 (08:19):
So then what the Garmans decided, we've got to do
something and kudos there and totally could have walked away.
It would have been easy, would have walked away. And
they found other friends who had small children with autism.
I think it was maybe four or six families that
got together and basically because they weren't able to get
(08:42):
the education that they felt, you know, their children needed
in the school system. As you Sylvia, you pointed out,
people no dis to the school system, none whatsoever at
that time, still not understanding what is needed. Autism is
still very new So they had these clinicians, you know,
(09:03):
teach their kids, do therapies with their kids until they
got to kindergarten and then it's like, now what are
we gonna do? So then they said, okay, well we
bears create somewhat of an elementary sort of school, and
we're in different parts of central Pennsylvania, you know, in
in a business office area. And then eventually to two
(09:30):
thousand and eleven where the Vista School that you spoke
about in Hershey in Springboard, Springboard is the location and
where then it was created this school from K to
twelve kind of thing. And again these are children who
(09:51):
are have been identified as individuals who cannot make it
in the regular public school system. So they come to
us because of the behaviors that they have and what
they're going through. And we're in a school that, as
Mary lou said, we have the expertise to teach and
(10:15):
to learn what what is needed to bring out those
the strengths that are individuals.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Like correct me, please if I'm wrong. There are a
lot of people who are in that spectrum who are brilliant,
there are people who are average, there are people just
like us, like anybody, and that is a just like
they say, it has something to do with the brain.
It's not a choice. So what you guys do is
you have the capability to work with every level of
(10:47):
these children in the time they're a little on upright.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
And exactly on up.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
And so you're starting, like we have an early intervention
program that starts with the kids as you were talking
about two, and I think we're even starting at eighteen
eighteen months and going right up to adulthood. And again
those early intervention the children who are identified when their
toddlers are younger. With early intervention, you're going to have
(11:18):
more success rate of success than coming later on. So
it's all about if you put in a lot at
the beginning, you're not going to have to be investing
so many more. You know, legislators say dollars, Yeah, later.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
On, legislators tell me about that. Have supportive? Have the
legislature been the legislation I know the governor just uped it.
Speaker 4 (11:46):
Yes, the budget and the rates and the rates has
been helpful, has been helpful, and we are greatly very
thankful for that. We would still say, though there's more
that you know can be done, especially when we look
at approved the funds for the approved private schools, where
(12:08):
when we're talking about our school decade of twelve, the
funding it's still insufficient because that funding helps school districts
to kind of maybe, let's say, take the edge off
of how much the school district would be on for
to educate an individual who has autism, because it is costly,
(12:31):
you know, the.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Ratio to staff and where you are. But that's another
thing I wanted to ask you. At what point do
you work towards the point where all these children eventually
go to another school or do they stay at Vista
till till they're eighteen years old?
Speaker 4 (12:48):
For the most part, they do stay at Vista. And
we will say also we do have another program called
the Cove program, which is a program in Carlisle School
District where we have Vista staff who are implanted in
the school in the school district, working side by side
(13:11):
with the other general ed educators. Where is where is
like the Capital Area Intermediate Union in this part? How
do they with kids like that?
Speaker 2 (13:24):
That's something Mary lou probably.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Yes, So we're not necessarily connected to no intermediate units.
There are a few in the area.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Is that the question I would imagine they get the
kids that need some support. Do they sometimes refer those
children to you?
Speaker 3 (13:40):
In some cases we do work together, yes.
Speaker 4 (13:44):
Yeah, because our students And that's the other thing, you know,
parents hear about Vista, I want in I want my
child to go to Vista, right, And we work very
closely with the school districts because the school districts need
to refer students to us. Mom and dad can't just hey,
I want my child to go here, because of course,
(14:06):
as we all know, the.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
School district has budgets and they well, so do you.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
Yeah, And some school districts, now as we've been talking
more knowledge about autism, there are some schools who are saying, hey,
we can do this. We can provide those supports and
resources and have at it. And that's great if you can.
It's important that it's done properly and with the staff
(14:32):
who has the expertise, and we certainly have a track
record of twenty years plus right, having the staff and
the modality of therapy to support our students so that
once they leave high school and Mary Lou's going to
talk about it, then they'll go into adult services and
(14:52):
what's needed there. But it is an line of expertise,
and I think has happened in the last few years.
There are now for profit companies that are offering autism
services and they're looking at the bottom line making the profit.
(15:13):
They might not be doing it exactly in the exact
way that's to.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
The advantage of what effective child Well, how do you
determine that? How do you find out if, like say,
somebody comes in said, I heard you this, blah blah blah,
how do you find out if they measure up to Vista.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
Well, and I don't want, you know, our competitors out
there to say, hey, Vista, Vista, I do we believe,
we believe we have a model that works and families. Yeah,
and it's data driven data research. It's not just we're
saying it like we're you know, we're documenting, we're calculating,
(15:56):
we can show the success and the accomplishments.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Because it is.
Speaker 4 (16:03):
It's data driven and that's the bottom line kind of thing.
I believe other programs, especially if we're looking at the
for profit, they're still I.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Think trying to understand that. I'll put it that way.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
They see it as a way to make it money,
like most things. And Mary got to talk to you
you have dealt with over three hundred kind of compliance right, yeah, okay,
we were talking about evaluation when a child is very young.
As you said, Anzie, that's the best way to do.
Want it to work out, okay, but they have to
(16:40):
be evaluated. How is that evaluation done when the kids
well let's talk about well switch gears and go from
adults or from children to adults. So you have a
kid's eighteen years old, what do you look for how
do you evaluate them to see if they're ready to
go out and get a job.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
Yeah, sure, a great question. I'm going to talk a
little bit more in general than just employment, but really
we work closely with school districts, with you know, staff
members at the Vista School wherever these students are graduating
from and sort of learn about, you know, what what
is what are their hopes and dreams, what could life
look like for them? And that's typically a combination of
(17:20):
a lot of different services. So at Vista we provide
day services that's more like leisure activities, volunteer opportunities, you know,
go out in the community and just be a part
of the community. We have an in home an intensive
in home program where for individuals that have you know,
(17:41):
more intensive behaviors and need to be able to you know,
be in a safe environment. We have staff that go
into the home help them with you know, skills of
daily living, leisure activities. They do also go out in
the community and engage in leisure activities and things in
the community. And then we have our employment program, which
I'm obviously a little bit biased that, yeah, and then
(18:05):
we also have a really wonderful service called behavior support
services and uh those are trained clinicians in terms of
helping people, uh live their best life when it comes
to their behaviors. So if if somebody is really engaging
in some undesirable behaviors, we're gonna spend a lot of
time learning why and giving them replacement behaviors that, you know,
(18:30):
sometimes if it's just I don't feel well and I
don't know how to tell you, you know, those replacement
behaviors of just you know, being able to express how
you're feeling. And those behavior support services can overlap any
of our other services.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
And you combine, like the adult service, employment services with
the residential you have all kinds of work things out right.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
Yes, absolutely, so, Visa doesn't have we don't have our
own residential program, but we work with lots and lots
of individuals that live in residential settings. And again it's
really that you know, culmination of all the services that
they need to live out their hopes and dreams. So
I might work a few days, engage in some leisure
activities in the community, and live at a residential home
(19:10):
all at one time. So going back to your question
about evaluations, it's really what are their hopes and dreams?
What are the services available to provide those services so
that they can engage in whatever they want to do
in life? And then, you know the most challenging question,
then what funding do they have available to pay for
(19:31):
those services? So we work really closely with you know,
staff members and families when students are in school and
coming up to graduation. But we also work really closely
with teams of individuals that have already been long graduated
and are just now realizing that they want to work.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Okay, and typically are they minimum wage jobs or if
somebody wants to go to college, I mean, how do
you figure all this out?
Speaker 3 (19:59):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Question?
Speaker 3 (20:01):
So we get that question a lot from employers because,
as you know, when I tell you about our process.
We work really really closely with employers to help identify
good matches for the needs that they have, and they
always ask us how much should we pay them, And
the answer is as much as you would pay anyone
else to do the same work. So, you know, we've
(20:21):
got individuals working for minimum wage because they're doing a
minimum wage job, but we have individuals who are making
quite a bit more than that, you know. And it
also follows the market. You know, distribution warehouses are really
big right now and they're paying a lot, So the
individuals that we have in that industry are likely not
making minimum wage.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Okay, So you say you have a kid who wants
to go to college and they have these the social issue,
how do you get how do you make sure they're
ready to go?
Speaker 3 (20:48):
Yeah, great question. So we don't provide those kinds of
services in order to you know, support people in college,
but there are programs that you know, provide you know,
if they need someone to take notes for them, or
if they need instructional materials to be modified, things like that.
It's not something we do right now, but it is available.
(21:10):
And again, it's really just about learning. What are those
hopes and dreams what help do they need and then
you know, finding the resources for that.
Speaker 4 (21:18):
And I'd like to please interrupt us to say, as
Mary Lou talks about our employment program, when you were
talking about minimum wage or how people are paid, it
has like an eighty five percent success rate of placement
in jobs that they're competitive, competitively employed and it's not
(21:39):
piecemeal work, it's not you.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Know, we'll give you an example of a success story,
either of you or both of you.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Sure, I would love.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
To let me think of one. There's so many, So
my favorite story to share is just an individual. He
started out with us in the Vesta School. One of
the reason he came for his public school was because
he was being sent home every day and he, you know,
he was engaging in some behaviors because he couldn't express
(22:08):
his wants and needs. So we got him at the
Vista School. We started listening to him in the way
that he could communicate, teaching him better ways of communicating.
But one of the behaviors that he continued to engage in,
and this happened at home with mom as well, was
he really wanted to organize everything. So, you know, you
walk around to school and you're gonna find things out
(22:29):
of place, and those things bothered him quite a bit,
and Mom would always complain, oh my gosh, he moved
something again, he took something again. I can't find this.
He didn't think it belonged on the counter, and now
it's gone. He probably put it away somewhere. So we
actually were working with a local beverage distribution company and
(22:50):
just trying to learn what their unmet needs were. So
got a tour the warehouse, saw a pile of product
and asked what it was, and they sort of described
a situation where they, you know, a palette or the
plastic was poked on the palette and now all of
(23:11):
a sudden it's considered damaged and they can't do anything
with it. So it sits in the warehouse until it's
about to expire and they have to pull all their
workers off the floor to dump the product out because
it's expired. So they're just dumping dollar signs down the sink, right,
So they actually created a position that didn't exist before.
They hired this gentleman to come and take the palettes apart,
(23:34):
put them back together so they weren't considered damaged any longer.
Sell the product help their bottom line, and he works
five days a week. Now, he's been there first. I
think he's coming up on his eight years. And wow,
he's too tired when he gets home to move things
around at mom's house. So he's really it's really helped
mom out a little bit. But that's one of our
(23:55):
one of my favorite stories. But just to add to that,
you know, talking about individuals, he's got this amazing, incredible
skill and interest in organizing things like if I had
the money, I would hire somebody to organize my house, right,
got tons of kids at home. But this skill would
be underutilized if he didn't have an agency that could
(24:18):
provide the services to help connect him to employment, because
he couldn't walk into a warehouse and say, hey, I've
got a skill for you. I want, you know, hire me.
And we did that for him. And I also say
that he's a he's a tall, strong man, and he
also loves to shoot hoops with his coworkers. And you know,
he's been really been integrated. He's been an employee of
(24:39):
the Month several times over the years. And yeah, he's
just he's bringing more than just the you know, the
bottom line to the company.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Yeah, just a project.
Speaker 4 (24:52):
Yes, he works here and he's part of our organization.
And kudos to Mary Lou and her h employment staff
and career developers who go to these employers to say, hey,
talk to us, because many of them will say, I
can't even get the typical staff person to work these
(25:17):
jobs or to come in, and you want me to
work with someone who's got what behaviors and what going on?
Oh no, no, no, there's no way. But Mary lew
and her staff when they come in because they've been trained,
they went to University of Virginia, I believe is where
we got because they're the experts in doing this kind
of training and developing of staff to work with individuals
(25:40):
to do job and employment development, and they're able to
go in to the employer and sit down and say,
as Mary Lou said, well what's going on over there
or what are your needs? And here's how we can
join the two with an individual who, yeah, may have
certain behaviors, but they've got a gill set and be
(26:01):
able to work, and we've got the staff.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
We'll be with you.
Speaker 4 (26:03):
And I think what ends up happening is exactly like this, gentleman,
the teams and the co workers are like, oh, yeah,
that you know, he works well with this, works well
with that. As we talked, we all have certain things
that work well with us and that's just how it is.
And you know what, Vista, We're good. Thanks, thanks for
the training you've been in here. We're good. He's eight
(26:23):
years later, he's like anyone else. And at the end
of the day, when we're talking about legislators, this is
what you want to invest in because this is an
individual who is now giving back to his community. That's right,
pay in taxes or whatever. It's not looking for government
handout or subsidy. He is giving to the community.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
Well, ladies, we're gonna wrap this up in here I
go again. I get some of these problems.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
I get so wrapped up and I ask if you
please come back next week because we're not done talking
with this.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
So I want to tell my listeners.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Of course, catch Inside on one of the ten iHeart
stations this weekend if you can find it on your
favorite podcast app. With us today from Vista Autism Services
and hershey enzi Obinello CEO and Mary lou Winners, manager
Vista's Adult Employment Team, we'll talk more with you about
this next week, you're gonna want to listen. I'm Sylvia
(27:16):
Moss's has been insight. Thanks so much for listening. See
you next week.
Speaker 5 (27:20):
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Go to do I have Prediabetes dot org Today brought
to you by the AD Council and the Centers for
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Speaker 7 (28:20):
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an accidental drug overdose.
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I have these.
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I'm Carmela Wallace. I started Live Free nine ninety nine
to remove the stigma and normalize conversation around mental health
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Speaker 8 (29:21):
Many of our US veterans and service members face challenges
mental health struggles, housing obstacles, food and security, and social isolation,
to name just a few. I'm Bob Woodruff, my family
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Yes?
Speaker 6 (30:04):
Good job.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
So what should I do with all these coals?
Speaker 7 (30:07):
Don't just toss them out? Put them in a metal
container because those embers can start a wildfire. I understand
the steaks are high.
Speaker 4 (30:15):
Ha ha ha ha.
Speaker 8 (30:17):
Learn more at smokey bear dot com.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
Brought to you by the US for Service, your state Foster,
and the AD Council
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