July 13, 2021 • 36 mins
How does someone who went from "a producer with a bright future, to a producer with no future" in a matter of hours become the source for the largest crowd-fund of all time, and find themselves at the helm of the phenomenally successful TV series about the life and times of Jesus Christ? Dallas Jenkins, producer, director, co-writer of "The Chosen" shares the backstory (and all kinds of delicious details and inside scoops) on what's become my family's favorite show. Have you discovered "The Chosen" yet? ~ Delilah
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
You know, there are so many things that I love
about my podcast. I love I love that I get
to spend more than a minute or two or three
that my radio program allows to talk about a particular
topic or talk to a particular guest. I love that
(00:25):
I'm not limited, I have no limitations on what topics
I can or can't cover, and that I've had the
pleasure of hosting guests that come from so many different backgrounds,
writers and authors, musicians, dreamers, teachers, nurses. I have talked
(00:48):
to so many fascinating people on my podcast, Folks that
are changing the world with their skills, their talents. They're
innate gifts, like folks working tirelessly on behalf of vulnerable
and at risk children and teens, those that are feeding
and housing people in need, health and wellness professionals, book author, singers,
(01:14):
songwriters and musicians who entertain who inspire stage and screen actors.
They have all been here with me on Love Someone,
and I look forward to every new episode that we
are able to produce. Today's guest comes to us from
the world of faith based entertainment. He's the son of
(01:34):
celebrated Left Behind author Jerry B. Jenkins, and he grew
up to be a writer, a director, a film producer.
Twenty years ago, at the age of twenty five, he
produced the independent film Hometown Legend and Shepherd to distribution
by Warner Brothers. Remember that movie, Hometown Legend. I can't
(01:57):
believe that's been twenty years ago. Then he's directed and
produced a dozen feature in short films for companies like Universal,
Pure Flicks, Hallmark Channel, Amazon, and lions Gate. But he's
probably best known now as the creator, director, and co
writer of The Chosen, the first multi season series about
(02:21):
the life of Christ, which also happens to be the
most successful media crowdfund of all time. And that is
why I am so thrilled to welcome him to our
podcast today. Since jan Jan Haynes, who is the director
of Point Hope, got me and my family hooked, watching
(02:41):
The Chosen has become a big thing in our household.
I am absolutely forbidden to watch any of the episodes
without my kids. There's like this golden rule that Mom
can't watch an episode of The Chosen, even if we've
already seen it four or five times without them. That's
(03:03):
a temptation I've had a hard time passing up. Just
between you and I. When I get off the air
late at night and there's an episode that I so
want to watch, It's the perfect way to relax too
in the day a crazy day, but generally most of
the time, I am able to resist most of the time,
(03:26):
and so glad that I have when I finally settle
in with the kids and a bowl of popcorn and
we all watch it together. Welcoming Dallas Jenkins to love
someone is a really big treat, and I'm going to
do that right after I share some information with you
about one of my amazing podcast sponsors, Annie's Kit Clubs.
(03:47):
Without them, these conversations would not be possible. I love
being creative, and I'm excited to welcome Annie's Kit Clubs
as one of my podcast sponsors. As fast paced and
crazy as the world is today, I love that Annie's
Kids get kids off the screens and into some hands
(04:09):
on creative fun. There's kids for all ages, even adults,
from young woodworker kids to card making to knitting. Annie's
has a great summer offer sec off your first month
visit Annie's Kit Clubs dot com slash radio. Annie's Kit
Clubs dot com slash radio. They let everyone escape into
(04:35):
a world of creativity. Hi Dallas, Hello, Hello, how are you.
I'm good, Dallas. I'd like you to meet Jan Haynes.
Jan is one of my dearest friends in the world.
I invited her to be a part of this podcast
for one reason. She's the reason I know about you
(04:58):
and I know about Chosen. Jan and I go away
way back. We were friends in college and then we
you know, when our separate ways lost touch and how
many years ago, Jan to God bring us back together,
fourteen fourteen years ago, and when we reconnected, I convinced
(05:23):
her to step up to the plate and become the
director of my ministry, my charity that I birth and
that she has carried to amazing heights. She is the
international director of Point Hope. That is really awesome to hear.
When covid hit, Jan said, you have to watch the Chosen,
And every time she would call me, she said, have
(05:44):
you watched the Chosen yet? Have you found the Chosen yet?
So we started watching the Chosen. Oh my word, Dallas,
I can't even tell you how your projects has blessed
our family. It means a lot, Thank you. Yeah, it's
it's it's been a life changing experience for all of
(06:05):
us involved, and I feel fortunate to just be a
part of it. God clearly has something to say, and
I feel like he has something he wants communicated to
the world right now and I'm just trying to do
my best to steward it. And it's it's been a
it's been really cool to see. So tell me I
know a little bit about your history. Thank you, jan Um,
But tell our listeners you kind of have a background.
(06:26):
It's kind of in your DNA to create amazing programming. Well, yeah,
my dad is Jerry Jenkins, who's the author of the
left Behind books. Last year was actually the anniversary of
left Behind coming into the world, which was right around
when The Chosen was really coming into the world. So
it's been really cool to see two different generations kind
(06:47):
of have a similar experience, which is my dad took
the Bible, in his case, the Book of Revelation and
and put it into a context of what would it
look like if it was if you know, if it
came true today. And The Chosen isn't a modern telling
of the story, but it also takes the Bible and
puts it into a context that is digestible and viewable
(07:09):
and something that makes it a little bit more real,
a little bit more personal, more human, a way to
really experience it, you know. So I think that's clearly
where I inherited the desire to tell stories, or to
desire to take my faith and communicate it through the
power of storytelling and through media in some ways. So yeah,
that that is my my background. And for sure, I
(07:30):
think the greatest thing that I inherited from my dad
besides the love of storytelling, though, is just the fact
that when he experienced the Left Behind phenomenon, I saw
firsthand just how much it humbled him and how much
how surrendered he was, and how it didn't actually become
a personal thing for him or an ego thing for him.
As the Chosen has started to reach some of the
(07:51):
heights that Left Behind reached, I I just had such
a great model of how to make sure that I
maintain that this is not about my own work, you know.
I mean, I've, I've I'm trying to do my part,
but ultimately, the feeding of the five thousand uh is
God's job, and my job is just to provide the
loaves and fish. The first episode, I was so hooked
(08:16):
and I thought, yeah, how's how are they going to
follow that up? Each one gets better and better. Yeah,
that's good to hear. I mean, but since you're using
the term better and better, and I would I would
push back just a bit on that, because I don't
think that I'm necessarily a better storyteller or director each episode.
I think that it's just we're doing something that's really unique,
(08:38):
which is there's never been a multi season show about
the life of Christ. And one of the things about
multi season shows that I think is really great, and
I think what has served us really well for this
story is that in a movie or a mini series,
when you're trying to tell the story of Jesus, you
have a lot of ground to cover in a short
amount of time, So you don't get the characterizations, you
don't get the you don't fall in love with certain
(08:59):
characters during needs, you don't see much of an arc.
It's just Jesus goes from miracle to miracle, Bible verse
to Bible verse, and you're not really emotionally engaged in
each incident. You're just kind of watching it from a
voyeuristic perspective, like, oh, that's cool, Yeah, I remember that,
I remember that story from the Bible. Oh look how
they did that. That's really interesting. Um. Whereas with the Chosen,
because we have the time to introduce you to these
(09:20):
people and really show you there before that, that's what
we call the before they met actually Jesus, they actually
met Jesus, and we get a chance that we were
not rushed. We really get to take our time. It's
not that the episodes are getting better and better. It's
just that you know these people more and more, and
so in the first episode, when you don't know them
at all, you're kind of confused. Maybe you're trying to
figure out who they are. You're trying to get to
(09:41):
know them, like like any show, the first episode of
any show can be a little bit challenging. But then
once you really get to know them and fall in
love with them, you'd love you. You'd be happy to
watch them read the phone book. And so each episode,
the more you know them, the more impactful each of
these moments are. And so that's been what's so cool
and unique about the show is that we are doing
it in a multi season format that really gives the
(10:02):
time to explore each of these stories to their full extent. Well,
that may be part of it. But I've picked up
two on the chemistry between the actors the performers. You
can tell there is genuine love, respect, humor, Like you
can't fake that. I don't care how good of a
(10:23):
director you are, how good of writers you have, you
cannot fake the tenderness that has developed. And it's a
beautiful thing to watch to be a part of. Yeah,
we really have become in many ways a family, the
cast and crew. What's really exciting about it is that
you know at least half, if not more, of the
cast and garity, even believers. I mean, this is just
(10:44):
for a lot of them. They range from atheists to agnostic,
to journeying in their faith to two believers. We have
the we have the whole spectrum, but we're all united
by the desire to really to make a great show
as much as possible and to see the impact that
it's having. I think has been in has been life
altering for everyone involved. And I think because we're part
(11:04):
of something that feels bigger than we are, and I
think we all feel lucky and humbled to be part
of it, I think that does contribute to it. I
think you do see a we don't want to screw
this up. We don't want to let our egos get
in the way. And I try to model that from
the top, you know, just from a servant leadership and
and humor and all of these things that that when
(11:27):
people come onto our set, they do feel loved, they
do feel cared for and seen and uh and I
think that comes through in the show. So in this podcast,
I'm just going to assume that most people listening have
not seen the full series and now the second series
of The Chosen, the second season of The Chosen. But
more than that, we stay and watch you because after
(11:50):
each episode, sometimes before each episode, you share a little
bit of information and for me, that is as actful
almost as the episode, hearing the little behind the scenes stories.
So tell my listeners how this thing came to be,
because you're not funded by one of the big you know,
(12:13):
movie tell the story of how it came to be
and how you really had to step out on faith
to make this happen. Yeah, my partner in this project
is a guy by the name of Darrell Leaves, and
he told me early on, he said, it's one thing
for a project or a show or YouTube influencer or
a brand or a company to have success. But the
(12:37):
brands and the companies and the projects and the ministries
whatever that really have a legacy, and that really makes
people feel like they're part of something and that they're
part of a mission, or when they actually know your
story as well, and when they trust you and they
feel like they're on a journey with you. And so
he was really encouraging me to make the as I'm
(12:57):
making the show, to be telling my story as well,
and to build our social media pages as an unvarnished,
authentic peek behind the curtain of how this has made
and also what it's doing in my life. And I
was at first a little bit resistant to that, partially
because I didn't think I had time, but also there's
always that fear of what it's not about me, you know,
I want I want people just to enjoy the show
(13:19):
or to be impacted by the stories. But he said, no,
that's it's actually it actually can be an enhancing part
of the process. So the reason I say that is
just to explain kind of where the decision came from
to show this journey from the beginning. And people have said,
like what you just said, which is for a lot
of them, not everybody. Some people don't care about me
and just want to watch the episodes, and that's completely fine.
(13:39):
But for a lot of people seeing my story, seeing
my wife's story, seeing how we went from failure from
a very low point. I mean, this show was birthed
from failure. I had just had a big career failure.
My movie had bombed at the box office. I went
from the director with a bright future to a director
with no future, and to suspend of a couple of hours.
I ended up pouring myself into a short film for
(13:59):
my true Just Christmas Eve service that was filmed on
my friend's farm in Illinois, twenty minutes from my house.
And that thing, that little short film I did about
the birth of Christ is the catalyst. Is the the
quote unquote proof of concept that ultimately went out on
social media and generated over ten million dollars from nineteen
thoud people around the world who crowdfunded Season one. That
(14:19):
is mind blowing. The first time something that magnitude has happened. Yes,
it's the number one all time crowdfunded media project of
all time. I love that. I don't think Dallas it
would be what it is had you been a huge
success with your last movie. Had you been writing that
high Oh, that's that's unarguable. I mean, I think, first
(14:43):
of all, just from a purely logistical perspective, if my
last movie had succeeded, I would not be making the
show because I'd be doing other movies. That was the
plan with all these Hollywood companies was who We're gonna
do this movie, that they're gonna do five more movies
over the next ten years. And I was set. And
then they all pulled out after the first movie Bone,
and two things happened. One is I think again, I
became available to do what I think God was really
(15:05):
calling me to do. But then second, I think, just
even for me personally, God was waiting for me to
be broken. He was waiting for me to be surrendered.
He was waiting for me to truly believe it's not
my job to feed to five thousand, It's only to
provide the loaves and fish. And I didn't truly believe that.
I was trying to control everything. And so once I
was truly broken and surrendered. Uh. And and that's been
(15:27):
part of my story and part of the story of
the show. If I tell the story All the time,
I show how I'm growing, how I'm failing. We just
let you see behind the curtain. And for a lot
of people, I think that that allows them to a
connect with the show a little bit more because they
trust me. But I also think that they also connect
with my story. I think people everyone can connect with
being in the wilderness, with being under the fig tree.
(15:50):
Like Nathaniel was crying out to God, you know, asking
if he sees him, and that was me. And I
think that as they've seen us not shy away from
showing our failure years and showing our struggles and those times,
even after the show started to be successful, other problems
creeped up and I would get online and say, look,
this is where I'm struggling. What do I do? I
don't know what to do next. That whole part of it,
(16:11):
I think has connected people even more to the show.
And I think that's been all part of this whole process. Well,
you're doing a wonderful job and I don't even know
is there a way to rate how many millions of
people have been touched, have watched have Like do you
have a barometer? Do you have a measuring stick? Not
that it matters. I mean, well, yeah, it doesn't. It
(16:32):
really doesn't matter in the sense that I don't actually
have expectations or goals. I'm just trying to do what
God wants me to do, and I wanted my My
goal is to introduce the authentic Jesus to the world.
And the way we phrase it is we want to
introduce the authentic Jesus to a billion people. But the
billion people goal is more just like a symbol. It's
a representation of the fact that we want people to
(16:53):
spread the word we want like jam for you, your
friend jan who told you to watch the show. She
was like Philip do or Nathaniel. You know in the Gospels,
Philip goes to Nathaniel and says, come in, see those
three words that I think are three of the most
powerful words in all of the Scripture. And Nathaniel's responses, Oh,
can anything good come out of Nazareth? I mean, he
just doesn't believe it. So many people were hesitant to
watch The Chosen because they thought, can anything good come
(17:15):
out of Christian media? But there's always a Philip who says, no,
just just watch it, just come and see. We want
to encourage people to go and tell others and to
spread the word and say, come and see this is
how the show has impacted my life. But right now,
so far, we know how many views there have been,
how many people have watched the show in some form,
and it's approaching a hundred and seventy million or so.
(17:36):
How many people that is, we don't know for sure
because so many people watch the show together. So sometimes
there's one view that shows up on our app, but
that was ten people watching all at once, or nine
nine nine in our living exactly. Or you know, we
saw a picture from Nigeria where there's this whole group
of Nigerians who watched the show all at once, and
then there's other people who've watched the show twenty five times,
(17:57):
even though it's one person. So we don't know exactly
how many people it is. What we do know that
it's in every country in the world. We know that
we've heard from people in countries like Iran and China
who said that because of the app was free and accessible,
they could they could have an experience with the scripture
or at least the stories of the scriptures that have
driven them closer to the Bible, which they would have
been able to do otherwise if it wasn't on this app,
(18:18):
that could just get directly to their phone. So the
numbers don't matter on one sense, but another sense, they
do represent lives touched, and that really is what it's
all about. Well, I am so excited to talk to
you and so proud to get to talk about this because,
like I said it, it's really been a gift to
our family, especially during the COVID shutdown. I think it
drew us closer. And don't tell my older kids, but
(18:43):
Jan made me watch a few episodes in the new season.
Now we've watched two of them as a family together.
They don't know that I kind of cheated and my
husband and I watched without them, because that would be
a big betrayal. It's a family thing. I'm make sure
that doesn't get out as long as long as we
don't talk about it on this podcast. Yeah, and they
(19:04):
know they don't listen to my podcast. Come on, are
you kidding me? Um? And I want to talk specifically
about a couple of the elements in the show. Where
do you shoot it? So? Most of it has been
filmed in Texas. Half of season two was filmed in Utah,
there's an extraordinary set in goshen Utah that's kind of
(19:26):
a first century recreation of Jerusalem that we used for
some of Season two. We'll use that off and on
throughout the future seasons. I'm also moving to Texas this summer.
My family is moving because we're setting up our permanent
home both for our family and for the show in Texas.
We're building some sets. Yeah, Texas is the primary spot.
I wanted to bring up a couple of things about
the actual characters and the actual show. Tell everybody how
(19:50):
you found the actor that plays Jesus. The actor is
named Jonathan Roomy, And about seven years ago, I did
a short film for my church is Good Friday Service
and it was about the Crucifixion from the perspective of
the two thieves. So that's when I first started doing
this of telling the stories of Jesus but from different perspectives,
(20:11):
not changing the story, just giving you a unique look
into it, an a unique perspective. And Jonathan, the Jesus
only shows up in the short film for about five
to ten minutes and the majority of it is about
these two thieves. And Jonathan had auditioned for one of
the two thieves, and he did a good job. But
I had these two guys who were terrific and they
were the best choices. But I didn't have a Jesus.
(20:31):
The people who are auditioning for Jesus just weren't very
good at all. So I had Jonathan auditioned for Jesus,
and twenty seconds into it, I thought, oh, my goodness,
this is special. I mean, this guy has something. I
don't know what it is, but uh. And then I
remember when we were filming it. Uh, you know, the
only scene we had with Jesus in this in the
short film was on the cross, and I remember saying
(20:53):
to a few people around me, this is the best
portrayal of Jesus I've ever seen, and it's only five
minutes of screen time. He had the tenderness mixed with masculinity,
he had the heart mixed with you know, the intensity.
I mean, it was really something. And so for the
next few years I would do short films and vignettes
for my church and we and I would cast jon
you know, I would work with Jonathan as Jesus. And
(21:15):
so when it came time to do this show, when
we had this opportunity, I called him up and obviously,
I mean he was the first one I cast, and
I just said, so, we've got an opportunity to take
the show on the road. I don't know how we're
going to fund it yet, how it's going to happen,
but I'm trusting that God is gonna multiply the fishes
and loves well. He does a wonderful, wonderful job, and
You're right, he is such a delightful mix. Yeah, he really.
(21:39):
I think the performance is really I think a word
that can be used to describe it as transcendent. I mean,
it feels like I've had countless people say they they
are drawn closer to Christ because of his performance. I
think they have this healthy respect for the difference between
Jonathan and Jesus. But it does feel like when we're
when they watched the show, that there's something really beautiful
happening and some thing that that is not only touching
(22:02):
the characters in the story that we're telling, but it's
touching them personally. I want to ask you about a
couple other characters, Dallas, but I need to give a
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(22:24):
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(23:10):
next character that I am so smitten with Matthew, who
I read the Gospel a million well, I wish i'd
read a moment. I've read them several times, and I
am the mother of a child. One of my three
birth children is on the artistic spectrum. I never thought
(23:33):
until the chosen you know what I met Matthew was
perhaps on the autistic spectrum and the way that you
have developed his character, and it's you know, sticking to scripture.
He was the man who wanted everything written down perfectly, brilliant, brilliant.
(23:54):
When we were first deciding who the main characters the
show we're going to be, Matthew stuck out to us
because it was such a such an interesting story to unpack,
which is all we know in scripture is you know,
Jesus walked by his booth said follow me. Matthew dropped
everything and followed him, and he was a tax collector.
Were like, wow, that's really fascinating from what we know
about tax collectors at that time. So we started doing
our character profile of how we're going to kind of
(24:15):
write this guy. He started noticing some things that are interesting.
You know, he's clearly a numbers guy because he was
a tax collector, a facts guy. The first chapter of
his book is nothing but a genealogy, and it's split
up into three, you know, divisions of fourteen exactly, so
he's very precise and uh. And then he shows a
profession that made him an outcast. You know, he was
(24:36):
hated by the Jews and disrespected by the Romans, and
I just thought, huh, I have a lot of familiarity
with the autism spectrum. It's in my family and my
wife and I do a lot of volunteer work with
special needs communities, and I just know it very well.
And I thought, this guy sounds like someone who would
be I don't know if it's a fact, but it's
certainly plausible that he could have been on the OPTATIM spectrum.
And wouldn't that be a really human, interesting, fascinating way
(24:57):
to get into not only this character, but into the
show itself. I felt like it's a way to kind
of humanize this character and humanize the show. And it
has been, besides Jesus, by far the most compelling character
for people and also the most impactful. We hear from
people families of autistic family members all the time who
whose lives have been impacted by seeing that Jesus chose him,
(25:18):
he could choose me, and it's never been done before.
I've never seen you, I've never seen a special needs
character in a Jesus project. So I feel like it's
something that's just been one of the top three things
that set the show apart, but one of the things
that happened in my mind after you presented Matthew as
perhaps somebody on the spectrum, I went back and reread
the Gospels and went, all of these characters are special needs.
(25:41):
We all have massive deficits. Uh. Jan and I worked
together so well because some of our deficits are similar,
so that we don't get on each other's nerves when
we go. We could go to a warehouse and get
sixteen eighteen twenty medical beds, you know, our husbands or
our families like, oh, here they go again. But she
(26:04):
is very very good at following through with details. I'm
not right after I saw you portray Matthew that way,
when I went back and reread the Gospels, are like, wow,
Jesus really does love those of us that are weirdos
and outcast and and I love that. Yeah. And at
some point Simon in episode four, season one, he says
(26:26):
to Matthew, You're a little off, aren't you. And of
course they didn't have a diagnosis back then, so I mean,
I I'm certain that they had some form of autism
back then, but they didn't have a diagnosis for it,
of course. And like a lot of things that we've
discovered of the years. But I think that's such a
great way to look at it, which is, huh, Matthew's
got a deficit in certain areas, but it's just a
(26:49):
different deficit from what everyone else has. And I think
that's the story of the show, is that we really
try to tell you the story of Jesus to the
eyes of those who met him, so that you can
identify with their problems, their question their concerns, their struggles,
and then hopefully identified with the solution and the answer.
And so when someone is able to say that's me,
(27:10):
I'm Matthew, or I'm Mary Magdalene, or I'm Simon Peter,
or I'm Nicodemus, then hopefully they can then identify with
the answer to that problem. And that's what I think
is resonating so much about the show. Those just people
feel like they can see themselves in these people from
two thousand years ago, and then by definition, then connect
with Jesus. My next character was going to be Nicodemus.
(27:32):
There's one scene that I've probably watched the episode three
or four times now, and each time it brings me
to tears. When Nicodemus leans up against the wall and
realizes he can't. He can't give up the comforts of
the life that he has. He's unwilling to be broken. Yeah.
(27:54):
How many times do we do that every day? Do
we have the choice to walk the path of Messiah,
but we don't want to give up the comforts? Yeah,
And I think sometimes those comforts are those idols that
we have in our life look different and they're they're
not as obvious, you know. Sometimes it's an obvious one,
(28:16):
like someone's an alcoholic and they just can't get over
their addiction and it just keeps them from from God.
Sometimes it's pride, sometimes it's comforts. Sometimes it's a relationship.
Sometimes it's golf, sometimes it's money, whatever it is. And
we we just portrayed Nicodemus. We saw in scripture that
he met Jesus at night, which was indicates that he
did it on purpose to be hidden. I mean, we
(28:38):
saw that he believed. He actually says, you know, you
must be from God because of all the things like
he he was unique among the Pharisees for believing in God.
But yet we don't see him in scripture following Jesus
until Jesus dies. Um, we see that he you know,
shows up briefly later in the Gospel of John is
kind of halfheartedly defending him, but it's clear that he
(29:00):
doesn't go public with his belief. He's just not willing
to give up his status. And then when Jesus dies, though,
I believe that when Jesus died on the cross, Nicodemus
looked in that and went, oh, my goodness, I get
it now, and he gave up everything. Then then he
contributed tens of thousands of dollars and perfumes and spices
for jesus burial. He publicly buried. I mean, he was
(29:22):
he was all in at that point, and I think
it is heartbreaking when you realize what we miss out
on if we wait until it's I mean, I believe
Nicodemus a story is ultimately triumphant, but think of all
he gave up by not being willing to give up
something different. And Jesus says that to him. He says,
I know it's difficult, and I know there's a lot
(29:42):
to give up, but if you follow me and you'll
see so much more. And I think that's the message
of the gospels. So what's been the hardest thing for
you personally to give up? I don't know if we
have enough time to talk about all of it, um
but I for me, what I experienced few years ago was,
at that time the hardest thing that I had to
(30:04):
give up was my desire to control, my desire to
affect the outcomes of my life, and to be willing
to be broken and surrendered because each day you're dependent
and giving up control, giving up future expectations and predictions
and all of that has been immensely difficult for me.
What I'm trying to give up now, which I'm not
where I'm not doing very well, is things like time management,
(30:26):
things like uh, you know, I really feel oftentimes the
pressure of maintaining this entire project. I mean, at the
end of the day, I'm the leader of it, and
there's so much that I'm responsible for, and I have
to be willing to give up certain things to really
do that. So I'm still a good husband and father
And right now I'm giving up sleep. Right now, I'm like,
(30:46):
I'm not going to give up my my family time,
and I can't give up the time it takes to
make the show and to pitch the show to people
and to make sure that we're marketing the show and
telling my story. But I'll say'll just give up sleep,
and that's not really good either. That's not a good solution. Yeah,
so I got to make sure that that that the
show itself doesn't become its own idol, you know what
(31:06):
I mean. Well, thank you for spending the time that
you've spent here with us today. Jan I know you
want to tell Dallas something. Well, I will say that
I appreciate the opportunity to pay it for it, and
I appreciate the opportunity to be able to say that
lives can be touched. And um, I know for sure
that the Chosen is being seen in Ghana because that's
(31:27):
her point. Hope works and that's where I've taken the
DVDs two and we had little around Eastern time when
a surprise surprise there might have been a second season
got started. We gathered around some tablets and televisions and
got to watch it there and got them caught up beforehand.
So it's been a blessing on many levels. That's that's awesome. Yeah,
(31:49):
it recks me every time I hear about some of
these countries that normally and there would never get a
chance to watch something like this or I can't afford
it or whatever, but to know that through the power
of the technology and my my partners at our distribution
company who invented this technology, that you can just grab
it wherever you're at, um and it's in countries like
China and Iran, which you know, we've just kind of
(32:11):
gotten past the gatekeepers and just gotten directly to the people.
And that's been the coolest thing about it. So I
love the fact you just strike me as someone who
wants to to tell the world and show the world
who Jesus say is wherever that takes you. And that's
really let me. Can I just brag on my friend
here for a minute. Dallas Jan and her husband have
four biological children. They have adopted a number of children
(32:34):
on top of their four bio children, and both of
her bio daughters have opened their homes to kids in
foster care and adoption. And when her daughters adopt or
take in or foster a child, um Jan is grandma
and it's not like she separates out well these are
the bio grandkids, or these are this, this and everything
(32:56):
she touches she touches with the love of God. It's
pretty amazing. Well, that's that's very clear. I'm a adoptive
dad myself. We have a child from Thailand, and then
right now in my home, my wife's sister is here
and she's got two adopted kids, and my brother has
to adopted kids. I've I've always said that that adoption
(33:18):
is the single number one representation of what God's relationship
is with us. He adopted, adopts us into into his family.
You know, we are adopted sons and daughters, as the
scriptures say. And to see that's what true diversity looks like.
That's what where it's it's it's not being done to
try to check off a box. It's being done because
it's literally changing the nature of your family is the
(33:42):
most beautiful picture of it. So that's really awesome. Dallas
Jenkins from The Chosen, thank you for spending this time
with us here today, and I just I cannot thank
you enough for the good work that you've done and
for inspiring my family. That means a lot of Thank
you so much. It as a pleasure and we'll hopefully
do it a after season three. Al right, God bless
(34:02):
thank you so much. Guys. After Jeanne and I were
chatting about the latest episode of The Chosen. She asked me,
why hadn't I ever interviewed Dallas? Yeah, why haven't you,
I asked myself in reply. So I sent out at
ap B to all my friends in the media world
asking if anyone had any connections that could put me
(34:24):
in touch with Dallas Jenkins. To my absolute delight, a
few did, and to my further astonishment, a few days later,
I found myself having an email exchange with him. I
was fan geeking, I truly was. This man has brought
so much joy to our family with his series The
(34:48):
Chosen and helped us to bond in our love for
one another and our faith together in such a beautiful way.
Dallas was so generous with his time and his spirit.
He's been so charming and inspiring, the absolute perfect guest
for this program. If you have not yet discovered The Chosen,
(35:08):
you are in for the biggest treat of your life.
And there's more good news. You can watch the show
for free anywhere in the world by downloading the mobile app.
Go to www. Dot The Chosen dot tv backslash app
The Chosen dot tv backslash a p P, or search
(35:35):
The Chosen in your app store. From the app, you
can even stream to your TV using devices like Roku, Apple, TV, Fire, TV,
et cetera. Thank you for joining us today. If I
sound a little giddy, my apologies. This has been a
dream come true for me and for my girlfriend jan
I hope you as well join me in the evenings
(35:56):
on my radio program and join me when I have
another episode I've Loved Someone m
You know, there are so many things that I love
about my podcast. I love I love that I get
to spend more than a minute or two or three
that my radio program allows to talk about a particular
topic or talk to a particular guest. I love that
(00:25):
I'm not limited, I have no limitations on what topics
I can or can't cover, and that I've had the
pleasure of hosting guests that come from so many different backgrounds,
writers and authors, musicians, dreamers, teachers, nurses. I have talked
(00:48):
to so many fascinating people on my podcast, Folks that
are changing the world with their skills, their talents. They're
innate gifts, like folks working tirelessly on behalf of vulnerable
and at risk children and teens, those that are feeding
and housing people in need, health and wellness professionals, book author, singers,
(01:14):
songwriters and musicians who entertain who inspire stage and screen actors.
They have all been here with me on Love Someone,
and I look forward to every new episode that we
are able to produce. Today's guest comes to us from
the world of faith based entertainment. He's the son of
(01:34):
celebrated Left Behind author Jerry B. Jenkins, and he grew
up to be a writer, a director, a film producer.
Twenty years ago, at the age of twenty five, he
produced the independent film Hometown Legend and Shepherd to distribution
by Warner Brothers. Remember that movie, Hometown Legend. I can't
(01:57):
believe that's been twenty years ago. Then he's directed and
produced a dozen feature in short films for companies like Universal,
Pure Flicks, Hallmark Channel, Amazon, and lions Gate. But he's
probably best known now as the creator, director, and co
writer of The Chosen, the first multi season series about
(02:21):
the life of Christ, which also happens to be the
most successful media crowdfund of all time. And that is
why I am so thrilled to welcome him to our
podcast today. Since jan Jan Haynes, who is the director
of Point Hope, got me and my family hooked, watching
(02:41):
The Chosen has become a big thing in our household.
I am absolutely forbidden to watch any of the episodes
without my kids. There's like this golden rule that Mom
can't watch an episode of The Chosen, even if we've
already seen it four or five times without them. That's
(03:03):
a temptation I've had a hard time passing up. Just
between you and I. When I get off the air
late at night and there's an episode that I so
want to watch, It's the perfect way to relax too
in the day a crazy day, but generally most of
the time, I am able to resist most of the time,
(03:26):
and so glad that I have when I finally settle
in with the kids and a bowl of popcorn and
we all watch it together. Welcoming Dallas Jenkins to love
someone is a really big treat, and I'm going to
do that right after I share some information with you
about one of my amazing podcast sponsors, Annie's Kit Clubs.
(03:47):
Without them, these conversations would not be possible. I love
being creative, and I'm excited to welcome Annie's Kit Clubs
as one of my podcast sponsors. As fast paced and
crazy as the world is today, I love that Annie's
Kids get kids off the screens and into some hands
(04:09):
on creative fun. There's kids for all ages, even adults,
from young woodworker kids to card making to knitting. Annie's
has a great summer offer sec off your first month
visit Annie's Kit Clubs dot com slash radio. Annie's Kit
Clubs dot com slash radio. They let everyone escape into
(04:35):
a world of creativity. Hi Dallas, Hello, Hello, how are you.
I'm good, Dallas. I'd like you to meet Jan Haynes.
Jan is one of my dearest friends in the world.
I invited her to be a part of this podcast
for one reason. She's the reason I know about you
(04:58):
and I know about Chosen. Jan and I go away
way back. We were friends in college and then we
you know, when our separate ways lost touch and how
many years ago, Jan to God bring us back together,
fourteen fourteen years ago, and when we reconnected, I convinced
(05:23):
her to step up to the plate and become the
director of my ministry, my charity that I birth and
that she has carried to amazing heights. She is the
international director of Point Hope. That is really awesome to hear.
When covid hit, Jan said, you have to watch the Chosen,
And every time she would call me, she said, have
(05:44):
you watched the Chosen yet? Have you found the Chosen yet?
So we started watching the Chosen. Oh my word, Dallas,
I can't even tell you how your projects has blessed
our family. It means a lot, Thank you. Yeah, it's
it's it's been a life changing experience for all of
(06:05):
us involved, and I feel fortunate to just be a
part of it. God clearly has something to say, and
I feel like he has something he wants communicated to
the world right now and I'm just trying to do
my best to steward it. And it's it's been a
it's been really cool to see. So tell me I
know a little bit about your history. Thank you, jan Um,
But tell our listeners you kind of have a background.
(06:26):
It's kind of in your DNA to create amazing programming. Well, yeah,
my dad is Jerry Jenkins, who's the author of the
left Behind books. Last year was actually the anniversary of
left Behind coming into the world, which was right around
when The Chosen was really coming into the world. So
it's been really cool to see two different generations kind
(06:47):
of have a similar experience, which is my dad took
the Bible, in his case, the Book of Revelation and
and put it into a context of what would it
look like if it was if you know, if it
came true today. And The Chosen isn't a modern telling
of the story, but it also takes the Bible and
puts it into a context that is digestible and viewable
(07:09):
and something that makes it a little bit more real,
a little bit more personal, more human, a way to
really experience it, you know. So I think that's clearly
where I inherited the desire to tell stories, or to
desire to take my faith and communicate it through the
power of storytelling and through media in some ways. So yeah,
that that is my my background. And for sure, I
(07:30):
think the greatest thing that I inherited from my dad
besides the love of storytelling, though, is just the fact
that when he experienced the Left Behind phenomenon, I saw
firsthand just how much it humbled him and how much
how surrendered he was, and how it didn't actually become
a personal thing for him or an ego thing for him.
As the Chosen has started to reach some of the
(07:51):
heights that Left Behind reached, I I just had such
a great model of how to make sure that I
maintain that this is not about my own work, you know.
I mean, I've, I've I'm trying to do my part,
but ultimately, the feeding of the five thousand uh is
God's job, and my job is just to provide the
loaves and fish. The first episode, I was so hooked
(08:16):
and I thought, yeah, how's how are they going to
follow that up? Each one gets better and better. Yeah,
that's good to hear. I mean, but since you're using
the term better and better, and I would I would
push back just a bit on that, because I don't
think that I'm necessarily a better storyteller or director each episode.
I think that it's just we're doing something that's really unique,
(08:38):
which is there's never been a multi season show about
the life of Christ. And one of the things about
multi season shows that I think is really great, and
I think what has served us really well for this
story is that in a movie or a mini series,
when you're trying to tell the story of Jesus, you
have a lot of ground to cover in a short
amount of time, So you don't get the characterizations, you
don't get the you don't fall in love with certain
(08:59):
characters during needs, you don't see much of an arc.
It's just Jesus goes from miracle to miracle, Bible verse
to Bible verse, and you're not really emotionally engaged in
each incident. You're just kind of watching it from a
voyeuristic perspective, like, oh, that's cool, Yeah, I remember that,
I remember that story from the Bible. Oh look how
they did that. That's really interesting. Um. Whereas with the Chosen,
because we have the time to introduce you to these
(09:20):
people and really show you there before that, that's what
we call the before they met actually Jesus, they actually
met Jesus, and we get a chance that we were
not rushed. We really get to take our time. It's
not that the episodes are getting better and better. It's
just that you know these people more and more, and
so in the first episode, when you don't know them
at all, you're kind of confused. Maybe you're trying to
figure out who they are. You're trying to get to
(09:41):
know them, like like any show, the first episode of
any show can be a little bit challenging. But then
once you really get to know them and fall in
love with them, you'd love you. You'd be happy to
watch them read the phone book. And so each episode,
the more you know them, the more impactful each of
these moments are. And so that's been what's so cool
and unique about the show is that we are doing
it in a multi season format that really gives the
(10:02):
time to explore each of these stories to their full extent. Well,
that may be part of it. But I've picked up
two on the chemistry between the actors the performers. You
can tell there is genuine love, respect, humor, Like you
can't fake that. I don't care how good of a
(10:23):
director you are, how good of writers you have, you
cannot fake the tenderness that has developed. And it's a
beautiful thing to watch to be a part of. Yeah,
we really have become in many ways a family, the
cast and crew. What's really exciting about it is that
you know at least half, if not more, of the
cast and garity, even believers. I mean, this is just
(10:44):
for a lot of them. They range from atheists to agnostic,
to journeying in their faith to two believers. We have
the we have the whole spectrum, but we're all united
by the desire to really to make a great show
as much as possible and to see the impact that
it's having. I think has been in has been life
altering for everyone involved. And I think because we're part
(11:04):
of something that feels bigger than we are, and I
think we all feel lucky and humbled to be part
of it, I think that does contribute to it. I
think you do see a we don't want to screw
this up. We don't want to let our egos get
in the way. And I try to model that from
the top, you know, just from a servant leadership and
and humor and all of these things that that when
(11:27):
people come onto our set, they do feel loved, they
do feel cared for and seen and uh and I
think that comes through in the show. So in this podcast,
I'm just going to assume that most people listening have
not seen the full series and now the second series
of The Chosen, the second season of The Chosen. But
more than that, we stay and watch you because after
(11:50):
each episode, sometimes before each episode, you share a little
bit of information and for me, that is as actful
almost as the episode, hearing the little behind the scenes stories.
So tell my listeners how this thing came to be,
because you're not funded by one of the big you know,
(12:13):
movie tell the story of how it came to be
and how you really had to step out on faith
to make this happen. Yeah, my partner in this project
is a guy by the name of Darrell Leaves, and
he told me early on, he said, it's one thing
for a project or a show or YouTube influencer or
a brand or a company to have success. But the
(12:37):
brands and the companies and the projects and the ministries
whatever that really have a legacy, and that really makes
people feel like they're part of something and that they're
part of a mission, or when they actually know your
story as well, and when they trust you and they
feel like they're on a journey with you. And so
he was really encouraging me to make the as I'm
(12:57):
making the show, to be telling my story as well,
and to build our social media pages as an unvarnished,
authentic peek behind the curtain of how this has made
and also what it's doing in my life. And I
was at first a little bit resistant to that, partially
because I didn't think I had time, but also there's
always that fear of what it's not about me, you know,
I want I want people just to enjoy the show
(13:19):
or to be impacted by the stories. But he said, no,
that's it's actually it actually can be an enhancing part
of the process. So the reason I say that is
just to explain kind of where the decision came from
to show this journey from the beginning. And people have said,
like what you just said, which is for a lot
of them, not everybody. Some people don't care about me
and just want to watch the episodes, and that's completely fine.
(13:39):
But for a lot of people seeing my story, seeing
my wife's story, seeing how we went from failure from
a very low point. I mean, this show was birthed
from failure. I had just had a big career failure.
My movie had bombed at the box office. I went
from the director with a bright future to a director
with no future, and to suspend of a couple of hours.
I ended up pouring myself into a short film for
(13:59):
my true Just Christmas Eve service that was filmed on
my friend's farm in Illinois, twenty minutes from my house.
And that thing, that little short film I did about
the birth of Christ is the catalyst. Is the the
quote unquote proof of concept that ultimately went out on
social media and generated over ten million dollars from nineteen
thoud people around the world who crowdfunded Season one. That
(14:19):
is mind blowing. The first time something that magnitude has happened. Yes,
it's the number one all time crowdfunded media project of
all time. I love that. I don't think Dallas it
would be what it is had you been a huge
success with your last movie. Had you been writing that
high Oh, that's that's unarguable. I mean, I think, first
(14:43):
of all, just from a purely logistical perspective, if my
last movie had succeeded, I would not be making the
show because I'd be doing other movies. That was the
plan with all these Hollywood companies was who We're gonna
do this movie, that they're gonna do five more movies
over the next ten years. And I was set. And
then they all pulled out after the first movie Bone,
and two things happened. One is I think again, I
became available to do what I think God was really
(15:05):
calling me to do. But then second, I think, just
even for me personally, God was waiting for me to
be broken. He was waiting for me to be surrendered.
He was waiting for me to truly believe it's not
my job to feed to five thousand, It's only to
provide the loaves and fish. And I didn't truly believe that.
I was trying to control everything. And so once I
was truly broken and surrendered. Uh. And and that's been
(15:27):
part of my story and part of the story of
the show. If I tell the story All the time,
I show how I'm growing, how I'm failing. We just
let you see behind the curtain. And for a lot
of people, I think that that allows them to a
connect with the show a little bit more because they
trust me. But I also think that they also connect
with my story. I think people everyone can connect with
being in the wilderness, with being under the fig tree.
(15:50):
Like Nathaniel was crying out to God, you know, asking
if he sees him, and that was me. And I
think that as they've seen us not shy away from
showing our failure years and showing our struggles and those times,
even after the show started to be successful, other problems
creeped up and I would get online and say, look,
this is where I'm struggling. What do I do? I
don't know what to do next. That whole part of it,
(16:11):
I think has connected people even more to the show.
And I think that's been all part of this whole process. Well,
you're doing a wonderful job and I don't even know
is there a way to rate how many millions of
people have been touched, have watched have Like do you
have a barometer? Do you have a measuring stick? Not
that it matters. I mean, well, yeah, it doesn't. It
(16:32):
really doesn't matter in the sense that I don't actually
have expectations or goals. I'm just trying to do what
God wants me to do, and I wanted my My
goal is to introduce the authentic Jesus to the world.
And the way we phrase it is we want to
introduce the authentic Jesus to a billion people. But the
billion people goal is more just like a symbol. It's
a representation of the fact that we want people to
(16:53):
spread the word we want like jam for you, your
friend jan who told you to watch the show. She
was like Philip do or Nathaniel. You know in the Gospels,
Philip goes to Nathaniel and says, come in, see those
three words that I think are three of the most
powerful words in all of the Scripture. And Nathaniel's responses, Oh,
can anything good come out of Nazareth? I mean, he
just doesn't believe it. So many people were hesitant to
watch The Chosen because they thought, can anything good come
(17:15):
out of Christian media? But there's always a Philip who says, no,
just just watch it, just come and see. We want
to encourage people to go and tell others and to
spread the word and say, come and see this is
how the show has impacted my life. But right now,
so far, we know how many views there have been,
how many people have watched the show in some form,
and it's approaching a hundred and seventy million or so.
(17:36):
How many people that is, we don't know for sure
because so many people watch the show together. So sometimes
there's one view that shows up on our app, but
that was ten people watching all at once, or nine
nine nine in our living exactly. Or you know, we
saw a picture from Nigeria where there's this whole group
of Nigerians who watched the show all at once, and
then there's other people who've watched the show twenty five times,
(17:57):
even though it's one person. So we don't know exactly
how many people it is. What we do know that
it's in every country in the world. We know that
we've heard from people in countries like Iran and China
who said that because of the app was free and accessible,
they could they could have an experience with the scripture
or at least the stories of the scriptures that have
driven them closer to the Bible, which they would have
been able to do otherwise if it wasn't on this app,
(18:18):
that could just get directly to their phone. So the
numbers don't matter on one sense, but another sense, they
do represent lives touched, and that really is what it's
all about. Well, I am so excited to talk to
you and so proud to get to talk about this because,
like I said it, it's really been a gift to
our family, especially during the COVID shutdown. I think it
drew us closer. And don't tell my older kids, but
(18:43):
Jan made me watch a few episodes in the new season.
Now we've watched two of them as a family together.
They don't know that I kind of cheated and my
husband and I watched without them, because that would be
a big betrayal. It's a family thing. I'm make sure
that doesn't get out as long as long as we
don't talk about it on this podcast. Yeah, and they
(19:04):
know they don't listen to my podcast. Come on, are
you kidding me? Um? And I want to talk specifically
about a couple of the elements in the show. Where
do you shoot it? So? Most of it has been
filmed in Texas. Half of season two was filmed in Utah,
there's an extraordinary set in goshen Utah that's kind of
(19:26):
a first century recreation of Jerusalem that we used for
some of Season two. We'll use that off and on
throughout the future seasons. I'm also moving to Texas this summer.
My family is moving because we're setting up our permanent
home both for our family and for the show in Texas.
We're building some sets. Yeah, Texas is the primary spot.
I wanted to bring up a couple of things about
the actual characters and the actual show. Tell everybody how
(19:50):
you found the actor that plays Jesus. The actor is
named Jonathan Roomy, And about seven years ago, I did
a short film for my church is Good Friday Service
and it was about the Crucifixion from the perspective of
the two thieves. So that's when I first started doing
this of telling the stories of Jesus but from different perspectives,
(20:11):
not changing the story, just giving you a unique look
into it, an a unique perspective. And Jonathan, the Jesus
only shows up in the short film for about five
to ten minutes and the majority of it is about
these two thieves. And Jonathan had auditioned for one of
the two thieves, and he did a good job. But
I had these two guys who were terrific and they
were the best choices. But I didn't have a Jesus.
(20:31):
The people who are auditioning for Jesus just weren't very
good at all. So I had Jonathan auditioned for Jesus,
and twenty seconds into it, I thought, oh, my goodness,
this is special. I mean, this guy has something. I
don't know what it is, but uh. And then I
remember when we were filming it. Uh, you know, the
only scene we had with Jesus in this in the
short film was on the cross, and I remember saying
(20:53):
to a few people around me, this is the best
portrayal of Jesus I've ever seen, and it's only five
minutes of screen time. He had the tenderness mixed with masculinity,
he had the heart mixed with you know, the intensity.
I mean, it was really something. And so for the
next few years I would do short films and vignettes
for my church and we and I would cast jon
you know, I would work with Jonathan as Jesus. And
(21:15):
so when it came time to do this show, when
we had this opportunity, I called him up and obviously,
I mean he was the first one I cast, and
I just said, so, we've got an opportunity to take
the show on the road. I don't know how we're
going to fund it yet, how it's going to happen,
but I'm trusting that God is gonna multiply the fishes
and loves well. He does a wonderful, wonderful job, and
You're right, he is such a delightful mix. Yeah, he really.
(21:39):
I think the performance is really I think a word
that can be used to describe it as transcendent. I mean,
it feels like I've had countless people say they they
are drawn closer to Christ because of his performance. I
think they have this healthy respect for the difference between
Jonathan and Jesus. But it does feel like when we're
when they watched the show, that there's something really beautiful
happening and some thing that that is not only touching
(22:02):
the characters in the story that we're telling, but it's
touching them personally. I want to ask you about a
couple other characters, Dallas, but I need to give a
moment to another of my incredible podcast sponsors, the Home Depot.
I am so grateful to them for supporting this format
and giving us the opportunity to have this conversation. This
(22:24):
edition of Loves Someone is sponsored by the folks at
the Home Depot. Have you have the occasion to download
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(22:46):
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wires get more done. Download their mobile app to get started. Okay,
(23:10):
next character that I am so smitten with Matthew, who
I read the Gospel a million well, I wish i'd
read a moment. I've read them several times, and I
am the mother of a child. One of my three
birth children is on the artistic spectrum. I never thought
(23:33):
until the chosen you know what I met Matthew was
perhaps on the autistic spectrum and the way that you
have developed his character, and it's you know, sticking to scripture.
He was the man who wanted everything written down perfectly, brilliant, brilliant.
(23:54):
When we were first deciding who the main characters the
show we're going to be, Matthew stuck out to us
because it was such a such an interesting story to unpack,
which is all we know in scripture is you know,
Jesus walked by his booth said follow me. Matthew dropped
everything and followed him, and he was a tax collector.
Were like, wow, that's really fascinating from what we know
about tax collectors at that time. So we started doing
our character profile of how we're going to kind of
(24:15):
write this guy. He started noticing some things that are interesting.
You know, he's clearly a numbers guy because he was
a tax collector, a facts guy. The first chapter of
his book is nothing but a genealogy, and it's split
up into three, you know, divisions of fourteen exactly, so
he's very precise and uh. And then he shows a
profession that made him an outcast. You know, he was
(24:36):
hated by the Jews and disrespected by the Romans, and
I just thought, huh, I have a lot of familiarity
with the autism spectrum. It's in my family and my
wife and I do a lot of volunteer work with
special needs communities, and I just know it very well.
And I thought, this guy sounds like someone who would
be I don't know if it's a fact, but it's
certainly plausible that he could have been on the OPTATIM spectrum.
And wouldn't that be a really human, interesting, fascinating way
(24:57):
to get into not only this character, but into the
show itself. I felt like it's a way to kind
of humanize this character and humanize the show. And it
has been, besides Jesus, by far the most compelling character
for people and also the most impactful. We hear from
people families of autistic family members all the time who
whose lives have been impacted by seeing that Jesus chose him,
(25:18):
he could choose me, and it's never been done before.
I've never seen you, I've never seen a special needs
character in a Jesus project. So I feel like it's
something that's just been one of the top three things
that set the show apart, but one of the things
that happened in my mind after you presented Matthew as
perhaps somebody on the spectrum, I went back and reread
the Gospels and went, all of these characters are special needs.
(25:41):
We all have massive deficits. Uh. Jan and I worked
together so well because some of our deficits are similar,
so that we don't get on each other's nerves when
we go. We could go to a warehouse and get
sixteen eighteen twenty medical beds, you know, our husbands or
our families like, oh, here they go again. But she
(26:04):
is very very good at following through with details. I'm
not right after I saw you portray Matthew that way,
when I went back and reread the Gospels, are like, wow,
Jesus really does love those of us that are weirdos
and outcast and and I love that. Yeah. And at
some point Simon in episode four, season one, he says
(26:26):
to Matthew, You're a little off, aren't you. And of
course they didn't have a diagnosis back then, so I mean,
I I'm certain that they had some form of autism
back then, but they didn't have a diagnosis for it,
of course. And like a lot of things that we've
discovered of the years. But I think that's such a
great way to look at it, which is, huh, Matthew's
got a deficit in certain areas, but it's just a
(26:49):
different deficit from what everyone else has. And I think
that's the story of the show, is that we really
try to tell you the story of Jesus to the
eyes of those who met him, so that you can
identify with their problems, their question their concerns, their struggles,
and then hopefully identified with the solution and the answer.
And so when someone is able to say that's me,
(27:10):
I'm Matthew, or I'm Mary Magdalene, or I'm Simon Peter,
or I'm Nicodemus, then hopefully they can then identify with
the answer to that problem. And that's what I think
is resonating so much about the show. Those just people
feel like they can see themselves in these people from
two thousand years ago, and then by definition, then connect
with Jesus. My next character was going to be Nicodemus.
(27:32):
There's one scene that I've probably watched the episode three
or four times now, and each time it brings me
to tears. When Nicodemus leans up against the wall and
realizes he can't. He can't give up the comforts of
the life that he has. He's unwilling to be broken. Yeah.
(27:54):
How many times do we do that every day? Do
we have the choice to walk the path of Messiah,
but we don't want to give up the comforts? Yeah,
And I think sometimes those comforts are those idols that
we have in our life look different and they're they're
not as obvious, you know. Sometimes it's an obvious one,
(28:16):
like someone's an alcoholic and they just can't get over
their addiction and it just keeps them from from God.
Sometimes it's pride, sometimes it's comforts. Sometimes it's a relationship.
Sometimes it's golf, sometimes it's money, whatever it is. And
we we just portrayed Nicodemus. We saw in scripture that
he met Jesus at night, which was indicates that he
did it on purpose to be hidden. I mean, we
(28:38):
saw that he believed. He actually says, you know, you
must be from God because of all the things like
he he was unique among the Pharisees for believing in God.
But yet we don't see him in scripture following Jesus
until Jesus dies. Um, we see that he you know,
shows up briefly later in the Gospel of John is
kind of halfheartedly defending him, but it's clear that he
(29:00):
doesn't go public with his belief. He's just not willing
to give up his status. And then when Jesus dies, though,
I believe that when Jesus died on the cross, Nicodemus
looked in that and went, oh, my goodness, I get
it now, and he gave up everything. Then then he
contributed tens of thousands of dollars and perfumes and spices
for jesus burial. He publicly buried. I mean, he was
(29:22):
he was all in at that point, and I think
it is heartbreaking when you realize what we miss out
on if we wait until it's I mean, I believe
Nicodemus a story is ultimately triumphant, but think of all
he gave up by not being willing to give up
something different. And Jesus says that to him. He says,
I know it's difficult, and I know there's a lot
(29:42):
to give up, but if you follow me and you'll
see so much more. And I think that's the message
of the gospels. So what's been the hardest thing for
you personally to give up? I don't know if we
have enough time to talk about all of it, um
but I for me, what I experienced few years ago was,
at that time the hardest thing that I had to
(30:04):
give up was my desire to control, my desire to
affect the outcomes of my life, and to be willing
to be broken and surrendered because each day you're dependent
and giving up control, giving up future expectations and predictions
and all of that has been immensely difficult for me.
What I'm trying to give up now, which I'm not
where I'm not doing very well, is things like time management,
(30:26):
things like uh, you know, I really feel oftentimes the
pressure of maintaining this entire project. I mean, at the
end of the day, I'm the leader of it, and
there's so much that I'm responsible for, and I have
to be willing to give up certain things to really
do that. So I'm still a good husband and father
And right now I'm giving up sleep. Right now, I'm like,
(30:46):
I'm not going to give up my my family time,
and I can't give up the time it takes to
make the show and to pitch the show to people
and to make sure that we're marketing the show and
telling my story. But I'll say'll just give up sleep,
and that's not really good either. That's not a good solution. Yeah,
so I got to make sure that that that the
show itself doesn't become its own idol, you know what
(31:06):
I mean. Well, thank you for spending the time that
you've spent here with us today. Jan I know you
want to tell Dallas something. Well, I will say that
I appreciate the opportunity to pay it for it, and
I appreciate the opportunity to be able to say that
lives can be touched. And um, I know for sure
that the Chosen is being seen in Ghana because that's
(31:27):
her point. Hope works and that's where I've taken the
DVDs two and we had little around Eastern time when
a surprise surprise there might have been a second season
got started. We gathered around some tablets and televisions and
got to watch it there and got them caught up beforehand.
So it's been a blessing on many levels. That's that's awesome. Yeah,
(31:49):
it recks me every time I hear about some of
these countries that normally and there would never get a
chance to watch something like this or I can't afford
it or whatever, but to know that through the power
of the technology and my my partners at our distribution
company who invented this technology, that you can just grab
it wherever you're at, um and it's in countries like
China and Iran, which you know, we've just kind of
(32:11):
gotten past the gatekeepers and just gotten directly to the people.
And that's been the coolest thing about it. So I
love the fact you just strike me as someone who
wants to to tell the world and show the world
who Jesus say is wherever that takes you. And that's
really let me. Can I just brag on my friend
here for a minute. Dallas Jan and her husband have
four biological children. They have adopted a number of children
(32:34):
on top of their four bio children, and both of
her bio daughters have opened their homes to kids in
foster care and adoption. And when her daughters adopt or
take in or foster a child, um Jan is grandma
and it's not like she separates out well these are
the bio grandkids, or these are this, this and everything
(32:56):
she touches she touches with the love of God. It's
pretty amazing. Well, that's that's very clear. I'm a adoptive
dad myself. We have a child from Thailand, and then
right now in my home, my wife's sister is here
and she's got two adopted kids, and my brother has
to adopted kids. I've I've always said that that adoption
(33:18):
is the single number one representation of what God's relationship
is with us. He adopted, adopts us into into his family.
You know, we are adopted sons and daughters, as the
scriptures say. And to see that's what true diversity looks like.
That's what where it's it's it's not being done to
try to check off a box. It's being done because
it's literally changing the nature of your family is the
(33:42):
most beautiful picture of it. So that's really awesome. Dallas
Jenkins from The Chosen, thank you for spending this time
with us here today, and I just I cannot thank
you enough for the good work that you've done and
for inspiring my family. That means a lot of Thank
you so much. It as a pleasure and we'll hopefully
do it a after season three. Al right, God bless
(34:02):
thank you so much. Guys. After Jeanne and I were
chatting about the latest episode of The Chosen. She asked me,
why hadn't I ever interviewed Dallas? Yeah, why haven't you,
I asked myself in reply. So I sent out at
ap B to all my friends in the media world
asking if anyone had any connections that could put me
(34:24):
in touch with Dallas Jenkins. To my absolute delight, a
few did, and to my further astonishment, a few days later,
I found myself having an email exchange with him. I
was fan geeking, I truly was. This man has brought
so much joy to our family with his series The
(34:48):
Chosen and helped us to bond in our love for
one another and our faith together in such a beautiful way.
Dallas was so generous with his time and his spirit.
He's been so charming and inspiring, the absolute perfect guest
for this program. If you have not yet discovered The Chosen,
(35:08):
you are in for the biggest treat of your life.
And there's more good news. You can watch the show
for free anywhere in the world by downloading the mobile app.
Go to www. Dot The Chosen dot tv backslash app
The Chosen dot tv backslash a p P, or search
(35:35):
The Chosen in your app store. From the app, you
can even stream to your TV using devices like Roku, Apple, TV, Fire, TV,
et cetera. Thank you for joining us today. If I
sound a little giddy, my apologies. This has been a
dream come true for me and for my girlfriend jan
I hope you as well join me in the evenings
(35:56):
on my radio program and join me when I have
another episode I've Loved Someone m
Host
Delilah
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