November 30, 2024 • 50 mins
The Black Effect Presents... Eating While Broke!
For Part 2 - Head to Eating While Broke feed and look for Season 3 Ep 2 published May 9, 2024
Season 3 of Eating While Broke is here, and we're kicking things off with a bang! In this explosive two-part episode, Coline sits down with the one and only Van Lathan for a conversation that's as real as it gets.
Van takes us on a journey through his remarkable life, from the streets of Baton Rouge to the bright lights of Hollywood. He shares his triumphs and his struggles, his moments of doubt and his unshakable determination.
Through it all, Van's story is a testament to the power of resilience and the importance of staying true to yourself. He's a living example of how even the toughest circumstances can be transformed into fuel for success.
But this isn't just a tale of one man's rise to the top. Van's journey is a mirror that reflects the experiences of so many others who have faced adversity and refused to back down. His words are a rallying cry for anyone who's ever been told they can't make it, a reminder that your past doesn't define your future.
In Part 1, Van and Coline dive deep into the formative events that shaped Van's unbreakable spirit. From Hurricane Katrina to his early days in LA, they leave no stone unturned. And next week, in Part 2, they'll explore the pivotal moments that propelled Van to become the voice of a generation.
So grab a seat at the table and get ready to feast on some hard-hitting truths and life-changing wisdom. Van and Coline are about to serve up a conversation that's as nourishing as it is unforgettable, and they'll discuss it all over an Angola State Grilled Cheese.
Connect: @wittcoline @vanlathan
Share your recipes with us: @EATINGWHILEBROKE
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BreakfastClubPower1051FM
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, guys, welcome to another episode of Eating While Broke.
We are not in La today. We are over here
at eighty five South Studios with the special guests of
the day. Van Lengthen is in the building. You guys
may know him as podcaster, Academy Award winning executive producer.
(00:22):
You know, but I like to acknowledge you as the
man that stood up to Kanye West in the TMZ
office commissioner of the Commissioner. And we're gonna leave the
Commissioner of the BBI off. But Van, before we get
into where you're at today, I want you to take
me back to where you were when you were broke.
(00:43):
What dish you're gonna have cook for us to eat today?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
So you can start with that, eat my throat.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
So I get out of college around I would say
two thousand and three, two thousand and three, I get
out of college, and there's this like transitional period in
my life because I was always interested in people's stories,
and everybody's story seems so linear. Every story seems linear
(01:34):
when you're at the end of it. Everybody has a
moment that something happened for them. Everybody has a moment
that they realize something, But when you're in the middle
of it, you don't know. You'll know when it's going
to happen for you, you'll know how it's going to
happen for you. Certain people have more certainty than other
people do. But all you can do is work and try.
And I get to this point, and it's this weird,
(01:54):
odd point to where I'm like, nothing that I thought
was going to happen and or no way that I
wanted to go is the way that I wanted to go.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
So you're graduated, we're taking back to when you graduated.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Right, And so I'm working at best Buy And this
is the same time that The College Dropout has come
out around that same time Conye's first album, and he's
talking about great album. He's talking about disillusioned high school
graduates who now have to realize that they're not going
to conquer the world, that what they're going to do
is enter into the American workforce and they're going to
(02:35):
be a part of something, and everything that they did
it's not just not as meaningful as they thought it
was going to be. In a way, it's spiritually debilitating.
And the song is the whole album is about breaking
free of that. Really it's about saying, hey, like I
dropped out, but I dropped out. I took a path
(02:57):
that is, let's admire, but in a way drowned upon
in order to be more alive, Like I'm not killing myself,
and so I'm to the point to where I'm like
having an existential crisis. I'm like, yo, I'm killing myself.
It's not it's not working. And so many things happen
within this two year period. My parents divorced. My mom
leaves the house, and that was very transformative for me, because,
(03:21):
like when a woman leaves a home right away, everything
gets less.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
What you were you were talking about after college though?
Were you living at home with your parents?
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Sure?
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Oh you were. During college.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
I went to Southern University and Van Ruge had gone
away to school, and then I came back and I
went to Southern University because I wanted to be around
all of my friends. So I was still living at home.
The school was about ten minutes away from where we lived.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Okay, So how old were you when your parents.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Were like twenty two or twenty three.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
And so you actually got to see it.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
I got to see it, right, I got to see
it there's two people divorcing and not mommy and daddy divorcing.
And I also got to see, just.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
What do you mean they're not mommy and daddy divorcing.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
It wasn't mommy and daddy divorcing when you're ten and
your parents break up, you're thirteen, fourteen, Mommy and daddy
are divorcing. In my life, Crystal and Terry got a
divorce because I had enough of a frame of mind,
or a frame of reference, should I say, for these
people to know who they kind of really were at
that point. So I knew the anger that my father had,
(04:23):
I knew the paranoia that my mother had. I knew
that these were two people that were on diverging spiritual
growth the journey, should I say, and that they were
no longer compatible, and like what that means, Like when
you're a kid, it's like, oh, you guys gonna get
split up? Okay, who am I going to live with?
It's not the concern for me. The concern for me
is do these people still get to live the version
(04:46):
of their life that they want to live now that
they're no longer together? And so when I saw that,
you know, my mom, I was actually happy for them
that they had made the decision. I was happy for
them that my mother I thought, Okay, this is a
new life for her. She had felt beaten down by
a lot of things emotionally, she had felt unsupported by
a lot of things emotionally, and obviously, with my father
doing some of the things that he was doing, he
(05:08):
must have been unhappy too. So maybe this is a
new life for them. I'm young enough to think at
that point that severing that type of relationship in some
way could be a positive for those two people as
much as they loved each other, and loved each other
until my father passed away. But immediately she left the
house and it was two niggas living in the house
that didn't know how to do shit, Like the house
(05:30):
just became It's like, it's just like, I remember.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Were you young, the youngest to or something? Who are
you the youngest in your family? Because you said it
was just the.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
Two, Yeah I was. I was the youngest in the family.
I was the only one still around. My sister had gone.
You know, my dad had other kids, but they were gone.
But like, so it's just me and him living.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Your dad had other kids, Yeah, what do.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
You mean he had other kids, nigga, you know what
I mean A lot. Yeah, yeah, that's what I'm saying.
So so it was, it was that's another reason why
you're happy for her to go and have a chance
at a life that is for her. Yeah right, And
(06:13):
so you know, me and him are there and it's
like she she's your mom, but she's also like a
genius in creating. She's a genius in keeping things running.
She you get taught this lesson of misogyny, and the
(06:33):
lesson is that somebody leaves the house and they gonna
make a whole bunch of money. And my mother worked
too and made a lot of money. But somebody leaves
the house and gonna makes a lot of money, and
then they come back into a castle and everything that
they touch inside the house turns to go. But you
don't realize that there's somebody who's keeping your life beautiful.
There's someone who's who's attention to detail, somebody whose ability
to multitask, somebody who who looks out for things. Somebody
(06:58):
who when something's broke, they go, Okay, you gotta fix that.
Somebody who when something doesn't work, they okay, we gotta
get it. Working, and the moment that she left, it
was the house crumbled. It fell apart, like the turn
on the stove. Pop pop, then let's just pop. And
I look at him and he looks at me, and
I'm like, right, she gets that fixed. That motherfucker popped
(07:19):
till we got out of the house with him. Never
fixed it, right, The washing machine broke, never got fixed,
you know what I mean. It's just just like little
stuff like that. Like my mother used to come out.
This was a big, beautiful home on about sixty acres
that we had had. She would come out and she
would spray paint, like like power washed the outside of
the house to where everything, like just me and him
(07:42):
were just too focused on the individual things that we
were doing to care about all of that. The place
was just less beautiful because the woman of the house
had gone wow. And so during that whole time, I'm
also broke. I'm also broke. I'm I'm I'm working at
best Buy. I'm like I'm treading water. I don't know
what I want to do. And then Hurricane Katrina comes.
(08:05):
And so when Hurricane Katrina comes, this is like a
weird two year period of my life, like everything changes
like society crumbles. Everybody's strapped for cash because you've taken
on so much more. You got relatives living with you
that come down from down in the city. Everything's different,
(08:26):
and now everyone's trying to stretch that dollar. You're eating different,
you're feeling different, and it just doesn't feel like there's
any abundance. It didn't feel like that in my life.
And so that's when that was the most. That was
the point, honestly, from two thousand and three to two
thousand and five, that was the point where I figured
(08:47):
out myself. I moved to LA in two thousand and six.
By the time I got to LA, I could fucking
handle anything. I could handle anything. I had buried homeboys,
I had put relation in the ground. There was nothing
the world had showed me like some really ill shit.
(09:08):
And so when I got out there and was dealing
with LA, it was a piece of cake.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
So you also navigated, So what this are you going
to have us eat today? Real cheese, grilled cheese. It's
at the staple and the most simplastic and delicious meal.
Did you have to add any tomato, soup or anything?
Or you just didn't? The legendary fuck all that.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
Butter bread cheese. Shout out to my uncle David, resting piece.
Shout out to my uncle Mark, rest in peace. These
guys taught me the beauty the grilled cheese. You know
where they learned it at? Where? So you think? Nah,
where you think they learned the grilled cheese at these
two uncles? What do you think?
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Someone scream? Somebody say it jail, jail.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
I could tell what y'all you've been. I can tell
what kind of life you have been living. They they
they learned the grilled cheese in jail. They were grilled
cheese mechanics.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
They came back in.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Here and they was like, I don't know it was
jail because they because because what.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
Because yeah, because because we know right there was grilled
cheese mechanics.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Okay, well, let's see, let's judge your grilled cheese.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
I haven't made it in a long time, because the
nigga is not broke no more.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
You know what I've been doing this show for. This
will be our this is our third season. We're taping
right now. And some of the dishes are so good
on this show that I go home and I'll make it.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
Broken, not Bronna make it.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
They're good.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Butter is a very it's very sensual. Look at butter
washes washess washes? Oh daddy, you hear that? Look at
the butter go. Oh my god, butter is like delectable.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Right, Oh yeah, I used butter on my cooking.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
Really, what's that? What's that? What's blood pressure? Like?
Speaker 1 (11:02):
I don't know, but I'm really healthy. We're really healthy.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Like what you get a church, Well, I don't know if.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
You could do a good grilled cheese. I'm watching the
way you're making.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
This, girl, It's not gonna be good.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
I'm concerned. I'm concerned because I feel like you are
gonna butcher this grilled cheese.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
It's it's not gonna be good. I can already tell
you it's not gonna be good. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
I mean, yeah, because these jail birds, they definitely jail
the right way. How much cheese is gonna put on
this grilled cheese? This is how you did it, broke? Yeah, man,
you put three pieces of cheese on your broke grilled cheese.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
I don't know if you know this, but like I'm
a big ass nigga.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Yeah nah, bro you're being judged, and right now this
grilled cheese is looking like it's not cool. We're gonna see.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
We'll see well, I mean, we'll see what happens. Cash.
Your question is this show to judge people? Is to
get inspired?
Speaker 1 (11:53):
You know what? The first the first season and a half,
I was very nice with people's feelings, and then I
had someone make tuna castro. They motherfucker, it was terrible. Well,
we tape in LA. Usually like eighty five did this
whole thing for us. Shout outs to eighty five. They
did the whole cooktop and whole build this whole kitchen.
(12:15):
I'm in love with it. Now I'm gonna have to
come to Atlanta more like Atlanta. But yeah, I like it.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
It's cool.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
I haven't seen much out here yet.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Where do you travel to? Where do you go?
Speaker 1 (12:25):
What do you mean? Where do I go?
Speaker 3 (12:27):
Where do you be at?
Speaker 1 (12:27):
I'll be I'll be at LA, New.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
York, La? New York is okay New York, Okay, La
New York.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
I'm from there. You know. Let's focus on y'all story
for sure. Okay, So you graduate, you moved to LA, Yeah,
and you graduate with what degree?
Speaker 3 (12:43):
I have a political science and English.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Degree, okay. And your goal in life before you left
college was to be an attorney okay, and then you
got to La.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
To be uh in the movie game?
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Okay? What happened in between those times to make you
change your career?
Speaker 3 (13:04):
I spoke to a lot of attorneys.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
You found out they don't like their jobs.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
What I found out. So, my brother Jabriel is one
of the most brilliant people I've ever known. Super brilliant,
like ridiculously smart, right smart in a way that's almost inaccessible.
And he went to Morehouse here in Atlanta, and then
he went to Stanford, one of the greatest law schools
in the world. And he didn't have a specific love
(13:33):
for the law, if you ask me, but he is
just an incredibly successful person. And it didn't seem like
to me like that was going to be a fulfilling life.
What I like to do is commiserate, talk, create. Obviously
I like to go back and forth on all of
that stuff, But more than anything, I want to create
(13:56):
things that made people think and discuss. And I don't
think that that was going to be something that was
possible as an attorney.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Okay. Now, a little backstory. So did all your siblings
graduate college no, okay, or any any of them similar
to yours, shows similar to your path.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
My sister's a poet, Okay, She's one of the greatest
poets in the world, really, I think.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
So she made money on it.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
She made no money on it, but she is ridiculously talented.
And I'm inspired by her every single day because she
creates no matter what the circumstance is, Okay, And that,
to me is more impressive than somebody who gets flown
all over the world to create. She creates because she
(14:45):
must create, and not because it's incredibly lucrative for her
to create. So it's in her.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
It's in her, and that makes.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Me feel good.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
So you get to LA. What's the next step.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
I work for a place called Capricorn Programs for a while.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
What do you do there?
Speaker 3 (15:17):
I produce a show called Cybernet. It's a video game show.
So when I first get out to LA, I am
playing video games for a living and then reporting on
those video games on this show Cybernet, and writing for
the show, okay, and then then something happens.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
What happens.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
That company goes belly up financial crisis. So when that
company goes belly up. Guess what I get to do
live on unemployment?
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Hell yeah, I love unemployment.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
Yep, and I become one of the world's foremost pick
up basketball players. Every gym in La you see me,
twenty four hour fitness, you see me.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Oh you didn't try to hustle on top of the unemployment.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
I definitely did. But the most thing that I did
was just play ball and vibe and right. I wrote
so much. I wrote so much, so much stuff.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
But how long were you on unemployment? A year?
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Two?
Speaker 1 (16:16):
You can be on unemployment two years.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
You have to remember that at this time it was
the financial crisis, so they were extending benefits to meet
people's years.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
It's two eighty and then it's like going into twenty
ten basics, and let me tell you what happens.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
This is a true story. So I'm on unemployment, I'm
doing my thing. I'm walking into the gym LA Fitness, Hollywood.
Everybody there knows me. Okay, I'm walking into the gym.
I'm walking into the gym. And as I'm walking into
the gym, a lady outside the gym says, hey, you
want to take place in the cirt. You want to
take part in the survey. Like, yeah, sure, no problem.
She's like, you take part in the survey, and we
(16:56):
like what you say, will give you five hundred dollars.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Oh shit.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
And I was like, hell yeah, okay, So I do
the whole thing. I do my whole little stick. I'm
on a little small camera that she has, and she goes,
we like you, we want you to come out to
this place, do even more stuff, right and take place
in this gigantic, bigger survey. Well, it's not a big deal.
(17:20):
We're gonna have you try out these products. And when
you try these products, we're just gonna ask you what
you think about them. I'm like, cool, no problem, all right.
So I decide to go to this thing. We cheese
it up right now.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
It actually looks really good. Impressed.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
And so I go to this thing into Van Eys,
you know where van So I go in there and
I'm into the little deal or whatever, and a guy goes, Okay,
this is what you're gonna do. I want you to
go in here, take a shower and use this shampoo
because they're doing product testing. Take a shower, use this shampoo.
(17:58):
Right when you get out of there, brush your tea.
Use this toothbrush and this toothpaste. Cool. It's like, don't
do this, don't do that stuff. We took those products
off the list. And then when you come in here,
we want you to shave with this razor. And I'm like, well,
I'm not shaving my beerd He goes, YEA, well you
can just shave at the top and on the and
right here. Just tell us what you think about it.
I'm like, cool, no problem. So after that, cool, I
do all this stuff. I get into this little room
(18:19):
and inside this room is two other guys in the
room and they got toiles on and I'm looking around.
I'm like, yo, what's going on here? What is this?
I try to weigh myself on the scale. Scale doesn't work.
I'm looking in the room. The room looks like a gym,
except I know that we're not in a gym, Like,
what's going on? So I start using the the the razor,
(18:41):
doing like this. And when I start using the razor,
somebody jumps out with a camera and they say, hey,
are you ready for the Gilet Fusion pro Glide Challenge.
It's a commercial. Oh my gosh, And I'm like, oh shit.
And so I'm using the thing. I'm doing the whole thing.
I'm going back and forth to God, I'm having fun.
After the thing is over, I walk in there and
everybody's clapping, like, hey, why how are you doing? You
(19:03):
got did a great job. You're in a commercial boom boom,
So don't make five hundred dollars. I make three thousand dollars.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Yet the freaking out so high because it's.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
A uh, we're done, baby special.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
That's a really good looking grilled cheese. Look at that.
The cheese is bubbling, guys.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
It's bubbling over and it's a little buttered in.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
I just learned a trick and making grilled cheese. What
is it to stack a lot of cheese in the middle.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
I mean, cheese is actually a pretty staple ingredient to
the grilled cheese, I.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Know, but I usually just put like one or two
Yours is like, first of all, you did it really impressed.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
I tell you, I tell you, I tell you why though,
that's why you're healthy. Though you said you were healthy before.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Look at the like the even colored color. I don't
know if it's you did a really impressive grilled cheese.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
Okay, yeah, just slow and slow. Okay. So look, so
I'm there and they're like, okay, so it's Saturday, so
the five hundred bucks that you were promised you get
that it's Saturday, so you get double the session fee
on that, plus like whatever you get like a holding
fee and all of that stuff. So I ended up
making like three thousand dollars for this commercial. Let me
tell you what kind of American I am. I come
(20:12):
home and I'm doing my unemployment and it asked if
you made any money? Yep, Why I put the money
on there?
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Why?
Speaker 3 (20:22):
I don't know. I've seen niggas get the death penalty
for less, so so I put so, I put the
money on there. I put the money on there, and
this is what happens. They then readjust my unemployment quarterly.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Like me, yeah, I told you not to do that.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
So quarterly. So it goes from being I go from
getting five hundred dollars a week in unemployment to seventy
five dollars a week in unemployment. So I go, Okay,
this is the deal. It's not. Obviously they don't think
a nigga could live off this. So I'm just gonna
go up to the unemployment office. I'm gonna talk to
these people. That's why I'm gon deal. I'm gonna go
up to the uneployment for some gonna talk to these people.
(21:00):
I'm straightening this whole thing out. So I go up
there to the unemployment office in Pasadena. I'll never forget.
The lady was like, baby, ain't nothing we can do.
It's in the computer. I was like, uh, I can't
live on this blah blah blah in the computer. So
I needed a job. I had to have a job.
But you know what, the funny thing was the g
(21:22):
let that commercial ended up like making me. That commercial
ran Oh shit, I didn't know anything. I didn't know
anything about being a commercial actor. So I would get
a holding check every now and again. And then I
started making money off the commercial. But that's later I
didn't notice. I came home, and when I came home,
I was like, I have to find a job. I
pulled up entertainment careers dot net. The first job was
(21:45):
TMS tour Guide.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
You were a tour guide, yep.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
It was being a tour guy. TMS was starting a
tour and the tour was like you go around to
different places and you show people different things that happened
like on TMZ, like we would show you where Josh
Hartnett got diarrhea, we would show you where Michael Richards
fucked up at the laugh Factory. It's actually a pretty
(22:10):
good tour. I actually I was one of the first
GUIDs on the tour. I was the first guy on
the tour. So actually a little bit of pride in
the fact that we were able to jump that off
and make it a thing, because it's still going right now.
So I get in there and I do that. I apply.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
That's a brilliant concept now that I think about it.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
The revolutionize the whole game. So I apply. And they're
doing the tours like American Idol. They have all of
these tour guys in there and then every week they
cut a guy. So I'm in there and like they
have me coming in there and whatever. I get the
whole thing. I start with the TMZ tour. This goes
(22:52):
through to about everything I'm talking about. I start with
the TMS tour. I think April of twenty ten, maybe
it might be twenty eleven, whatever it is. I start
with the TMZ tour. Then by July I started in March.
By July I'm on TV every day. Within a couple
(23:13):
of months, Harvey came into the tour. I was up
there doing my thing, and I told a joke and
he liked the joke so much that he brought me
in and put me into the.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Into the newsroom.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
Into the newsroom.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Yep, okay. So then you get this newsroom opportunity, your
pay goes up. Benefits. What are we looking at?
Speaker 3 (23:33):
So this is the way it was working. I was
making money because I was getting tips on the tour.
So I was probably making fifteen hundred dollars a week
straight cash off the tips on the tour. I was
killing these motherfucking white people. I was killing them. Iuse
I was fucking killing them. And then you would you
(23:55):
would come in and you would have like people from
there was tourists like they were from our earlier they
were from Canada. There was a thing that we do
on the tour to where if you see a celebrity
on the tour, you stop the bus, you get off,
you shoot the celebrity. And when you're driving around in
La at certain times, if you know where to go,
it's impossible not to see famous people. Like if you
(24:15):
were coming to La and you and you were hanging
out with me, and I was like, hey, you want
to sit around and watch celebrities all day? There are
three or four places I could tell you where it's
going to happen, and so we would see them, and
I'm a good spotterer. I would spot celebrities and we
would see them, and the people would go cit we
all kinds of people. Fucking Lady God got Leonardo DiCaprio,
(24:35):
David Beckham and just the other niggas that be around,
just niggas that be aroundous. You would just say, you
know the people I'm talking about in La, They just
they'd be around. You see them all the time, Like, hey,
weren't you in Yeah, like you see them. The funniest
thing was b T Wars weekend, right because there would
be all kinds of celebrities that I would recognize that
the bus wouldn't know who they were, and so the
(24:56):
bus wouldn't believe me that these people were famous. I'm like, yo,
I don't know if you know this mother a guy
two number ones, I ain't never heard of him before.
I don't know he signed to Luducris and them. He's
that's like, actually, I don't want to say the guy's name,
but like that's actually that guy is a huge singer,
like you guys should probably care about him. Wait, don't know,
fuck them, keep going No, but I mean so anyway,
(25:21):
so you know, I'm making good money because I'm making
my tips off the tour. I'm doing three different jobs
for TMC. I'm also on the camera with my on
the street with my camera. I'm on the street with
my camera. I'm doing the tour.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Oh, you're doing the tour and the newsroom and all this.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
On the tour and the newsroom. They gave me as
mean jobs as they could.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
And did you join as they were like a startup
or were they like startup level?
Speaker 3 (25:48):
So they were. This was two thousand and so they
started in like two thousand and five. I got there
five years later.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
That's considered still startup.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
Probably, so they were. They were the newsroom cast was established,
so I had to break in. I give I always
give Harvey credit for this. He uh the same joke,
because it's very hard to break into that room because
when you're in the room and you're everybody's fighting for airtime,
(26:16):
the camera's always on Harvey. But as far as you
you got to say something, you gotta do something to
stand out. So you get you start to maximize the
moments that you have, and if you're on that means
somebody else isn't. So once it's ten motherfucker's in there,
they're not looking for the eleventh motherfucker to come in.
But Harvey knew that I had that joke that I
(26:38):
could tell on the I want to hear the joke.
It kind of doesn't work without us being on the tour,
but so we so we passed by the Hustler store
on the tour, and so it would stop on the
Hustler tour, and this was a different time to tell
this joke. Okay, So so we would stop and I
(27:00):
would have the bus stop right by the Hustle store,
and you know, Larry Flynn is right, Larry Flint started Hustler,
and I'd be like, this guy's hustle store. Larry Flint
started Hustler. And I don't know if you guys know this,
but Larry Flint is one of the most important men
in the history of civil rights. And they're like, what
are you talking about? And I was like, well, you
(27:21):
guys might not know this, but Larry Flynn is in
a wheelchair. He was shot. One of the reasons why
Larry Flint was shot was because there were people that
were upset that he was doing interracial photo spreads in
a hustler. It's very true, and the bus will go, oh,
I didn't know that, and I would go like, yeah,
So Larry Flint, it's very important to a right leader
(27:42):
because he took a bullet so that I could fuck
white women. That's that's good, right, And so I remember Harvey,
Oh my god, and so I go and so they
don't want to laugh, they don't.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Want to laugh funny.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
But I'm in the room and I say that everybody,
and it's so far out of left field, and they've
never heard the sound of my voice before. I remember
shout out to Nina Parker, who worked at TMZ with me,
who's still a dear friend of mine to this day.
Beautiful black woman. Nina was looking at me like, I know,
they didn't just bring one of these niggas into the
newsroom where these goddamn Tiger Woods is. But that joke
(28:24):
put me over in the newsroom, and so and he
knew that it would. And so after that boom, they
all left. Another thing I tell the kids, I don't
want to be hyper verbose about the whole TMZ situation,
but another thing I tell the kids is your ability
to succeed at a place is not just about your talent.
(28:45):
It's about your ability to recognize opportunity.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
So the very first year I was there, I realized
that everybody goes home for Christmas, so everybody takes off
for Christmas. So if you watched the show, it's always
a buzzy newsroom. Everybody is around, everybody's doing all of this,
but it's bare bones in there, like any point after
Thanksgiving to the New Year, because everybody's rotating in and
(29:12):
off vacation, but they're still doing the show. They still
have to do a show. They don't go dark for
two weeks like everybody else is a daily show. I
did not go home. I stuck around, And when I
stuck around, I got all of the time to talk
and be on camera that I wanted to. So in
that month, I endeared myself to the audience. Right after that,
(29:33):
he comes in, he goes, we're gonna give you a raise.
We're gonna do all of this next time, contract with
up and just my stature at TMZ just went up
to the point to where I think maybe a year
two years after that, I was a producer.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
So let's take let's let's fast forward to the iconic
moments Kanye West.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
You like him?
Speaker 1 (30:14):
I love Kanye. I love old Kanye.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Now you like him? Now I can tell yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
You know what, it's so funny. So my favorite rapper
is jay Z and my little brother's favorite rapper is Kanye.
But now Eagle acknowledges that jay Z is the ultimate goat.
So you know, we have a great, great relationship. But Kanye,
let me try this girl, cheese, go for it.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
Bless you as straight from Angola State Penitentiary right there.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
Let's see. But Kanye, old Kanye was simply amazing to me.
I loved how outspoken he was. I don't know what
happened in the Kardashian eir, like what kind of drugs
they put him on or what went wrong because he
was always pro from the bush statement like he was
always that guy. So take us to that day, what's
(31:06):
going on like from beginning to end?
Speaker 3 (31:09):
So Harvey had gone to that that butter gonna burn.
So Harvey had gone to you know, the week before then,
Kanye had an album going out, and this is after the
Trump stuff, and he had, you know, gone off at
his at his show and all of that stuff. Harvey
had gone out to Calabasas. He was so giddy calling
(31:30):
me up to his office and he goes, look what
it is. It's me hanging out with Kanye West. So
I'm like whatever, you were like whatever? Yeah, I'm like
at this point, I don't give a fuck about that.
I hate that type of shit. Okay, though, I'll tell
you what I hate. Don't talk to me about who
you was hanging out with ever. Okay, Like, if you
(31:54):
go to a party, when you come back and talk
to me about the party, talk to me about how
the vibes were, where the drinks good, was the music good?
Speaker 1 (32:02):
So if jay Z was in the room, you want
to hear about the drinks.
Speaker 3 (32:04):
I don't give off. I don't give off fuck. If
jay Z came to your party, I couldn't give a fuck.
What do that? So it's a good party because that's
the only thing you be here for a whole So
it's a good party because he was there. Shout out
to him like it's a good party. Because he was there.
I don't give welcome thank you. I don't care at all, Like,
(32:26):
hey man, the drinks was good man, DJ was crazy.
He played that old school juve and now all of
that ship. Now I'm gonna come to the party. If
you start, don't my party. If Jay show up to
your party, it's a I guess it's a big deal
for your party. I'm not saying that. I'm saying that
it doesn't make me want to attend your party because
there are famous.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
People there, of course, but I'm saying that. Okay. So
Harvey comes to you, He's like, yo, I was kicking
it with.
Speaker 3 (32:54):
This. This is all I heard is Kanye Kanye. And
so he shows me the thing and him and Kanye
have some kind of report that they're working on or whatever.
I don't know it's going on. And so a week
after that he like, I'm in the newsroom. And by
the way, at this point, I've been very outspoken on
Kanye because this is Kanye posting with Donald Trump, this
(33:16):
is posts all of that stuff. So it comes up
to me after the morning meeting. He goes, hey, I
was like what there he goes, we didn't want to
tell you but about ten minutes Kanye was about to
show up here. I was like inside of TMZ and
he was like yeah. He was like all right, just
let you know all the mics are going to be down.
(33:38):
Because the way it works is for TMZ Live, which
is the live show. Showa comes in the middle of day.
You have a red button at your desk and a
thing at your desk. Anytime you have that red button,
you can talk. So after Harvey and Charles do their thing,
you hit that red button. You can talk. So when
I want to jump in and say something funny, I
(33:59):
jump in and say something fun When I want to
jump in when it's time for them to come to me,
like Van van Van Talk, you can talk. But they
had all the mics down because they just wanted this
to be Harvey, Charles and Kanye West. Okay, cool. So
I go sit at mine shout out to Charlemagne because uh.
I go sit down at my desk and I start
(34:22):
watching the interview that Charlemagne did with Kanye that dropped
that very same day when he was walking around Calabasa.
So I started watching that. I'm at the desk. Kanye
West comes in, very polite guy, says hello to everyone
and everything like that. They go over to the teams
he live to start doing teams he live. As soon
as the cameras come on, he turns into a fucking demon,
right like when I say you when I'm like it
(34:44):
just I come alive in the nighttime type shit. You
know what I'm saying. Yeah, he's talking now. I mean
I'm not saying that.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
He was being demon like the stuff he was saying.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
Yeah, I mean the demon. I'm not demonizing Kanye West.
I mean it was like the streaming consciousness, the whole thing.
I'm like, oh shit, but I'm still not paying any attention.
I'm not paying any attention. I'm looking at the interview.
I'm not a part of this conversation.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
So you're looking at the interview but watching kind of looking.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
Up or Kanya not really. But remember I've been told
specifically that I'm not part of this conversation. So it's
on them. Uh, Kanye says a slavery four hundred. Oh.
By the way, Kennice Owens is with him. She came
to the office with him.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
I don't know how you're not looking, not watching the
interview and still looking at the sharp interview.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
I'm looking at the Charlemagne interview. They're walking around Calabasas,
like you know, they they Kanye got his hair, you know,
they're having all of these deep as sauces. I'm looking
at but I can. I can hear him though, because
he starts to scream. He doesn't just want to talk
to Harvey and Charles, he wants to talk to all
of us, right, so I can, I can hear him.
It was like, God, damn this nigga, Damn that nigga
(35:51):
on one and so like, I'm still looking at it,
and he says, slavery four hundred years, four hundred years.
That seems like a choice to me, And everybody's like, oh,
look when he said that, couldn't see her. I don't
know she. I think she was in the other room,
(36:12):
because there's a side room. A couple of weeks before that,
and maybe like a month before that, Candace had gone
viral for shutting down some some students that had come
to a turning point us a meeting where she had
said you're a victim and I don't like you, and
fuck civil rights, whatever and and whatever she said to them,
and Kanye was like, this is the type of thinking
(36:32):
that I like. And then he put it. Kanye put
Candisons on like she she she By the way, this
is if any want to make a judgment, call about
Candace Owns, go to whoever you go to, wherever you
want to go to or whatever. But he put her
on basically, so she was with him for a little while.
I think he got a lot of his his his
early political when he was first in that new sort
(36:54):
of right sphere of thought. I think a lot of
he got a lot of that stuff from her. I
think he probably still does it this day, from a
lot of those types of people. Anyhow, so he's talking.
He says that I didn't say anything when he said that.
There's a there's a misconception that he said that. And
I was like, nah, I didn't like. I didn't like like.
I didn't say yeah. People think it was like a
big deal. I didn't say nothing, right, I didn't say
(37:15):
anything at all? His business he asked, He asked very simply.
He said that everyone gasps. One other person had said once,
one other thing about something that he had said. But
most of the people in the room just sidebar real quick.
You guys have no idea I guess you actually probably do,
(37:39):
because Atlanta has per capital more famous people than anywhere else.
You can't go to a fucking mall without goddamn nigga.
Wasn't you in atl But like, but just fame just
paralyzes people, particularly in LA like fame just like just like,
oh my God, doesn't matter what he would have said
up there, He's saying stuff and people are like, Jesus
Christ is the most famous person that's ever And i'side
(38:00):
this officer for it, But.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
I'm surprised because at TMG they crossed past it a lot.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
No nobody like that, Like it's like, especially to be
in the office doing that. It's one thing to have
to see people out on the street and get a
but you know, there's a specific TMZ celebrity that we
talk to all the time. You know, nobody like that.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
So take us back to that moment before you Superman.
Speaker 3 (38:24):
So he says that, and he turns around and he goes,
he says the whole thing, and he goes, does it
feel like I'm speaking freely? He says that. He turns around,
he goes, does it feel like I'm speaking freely? Okay,
now let me tell you a split second, is how
my mind works. Like for me, I just have like
(38:47):
my insecurity is that I just can't be the nigga
you can fuck over. I don't have to be the
number one guy. But like I'll fight you until you
realize you can't fuck over me. I'll play you in
basketball to our realize I can't be the easy guy
to get over on. So if you ask me something
like that and I didn't say anything, there's toxicity in
(39:07):
me that says, I gotta answer this question, like I
can't have allowed him that somebody might think that. It's
like everybody was, like you are filled up with the answers,
is not. I didn't want to feel like a weakling. Yes,
I didn't want to miss my opportunity to tell him
how I feel like he was acting, because then it
feels like I'm the one that he could just kind
(39:29):
of get off on. So he says that, and I
gonna know, y'all, I don't feel like you're thinking anything
like actually you don't know you're I remember, I'm said,
I'm gonna go back to the whole thing. But you look
crazy right now, like everything that you're doing, not just now,
but every other time, like you look crazy, you're not thinking,
and particularly this it's not even about that. It's about
(39:49):
what the regression or how can I put this? Not regression,
it's what a guy like that represents because we empower him.
So imagine like spinning your youth, like arming somebody with
(40:11):
this great, big cultural gun. Everything that Kanye did, we
were I was down in Louisiana wheen he said George
Bush doesn't care about black people. He was my god.
Like all the things that he would say when he
would speak out, like you defend them, you advocate for him.
You do it. You stand by and you just the
little cultural gun that he has, a little megaphone, it
just gets bigger and bigger. The gun just gets bigger
(40:33):
and bigger and bigger, and then one day you're staring
down the barrel of it. Now the things that he's
saying that you've empowered him to say are being turned
right back at you. And so like it's like, hey,
don't shoot me, Like why are you shooting at me?
Like you know what I'm saying. It's like I'm the
same dude like you you Kanye West, I love you. Yeah,
(40:55):
Like if I'm not about to diss him. Never would
I say to you, know, you're a genius. Everything that
you've done is you deserve all the stuff that you've gotten.
We love you. Well, let me tell you how you're
making us feel. That's it. That's it. I'm not trying
to go toe to toad with like a cultural deity,
you know what I'm saying. I'm not trying to act
(41:16):
like he hasn't inspired me in the ways that he's
inspired me, or act like he hasn't done the things
he's done, Like we don't do that where I'm from.
We give you your props, or else we would be haters.
But I just have to let him know, like what
you're doing right now is particularly pernicious to us because
we're in a very specific place in this country. And
when you go back and you watch it, you listen, Now, look,
(41:37):
my thing is this, any one person like that. There's
no person that's going to be able to be a
nigger whisperer and change what somebody thinks. Like there's a
day to day experience that people have that has to
do with their surroundings, who they are, their input and
output that's going to affect how they look at the world,
and you're not asking anybody to be to change that.
(41:57):
But what I do think is important as black people
who is for us to be cognizant of how what
we do affects other people. For example, I worked at
TMZ for nine years. I'm not in a moral position
to chastise anyone, like literally, like not in a figurative way.
(42:18):
I'm not in a moral position to chastise anyone. I
understand compromises that people have to make in order to
get to where they want to get. I understand that
sometimes people might walk into situations and not really know
what it is that they're getting into. And then on
the other side, you know better than you do better, right,
So it's not about that. It's about just alerting someone
(42:41):
when you feel like they're doing harm and then that's that.
And then after that, after I've said my piece, you
can choose either you can continue to harm me or
you can be different.
Speaker 1 (42:51):
So how did that milestone with Kanye change the trajectory
of your life? Because it definitely had a huge impact.
Speaker 3 (43:00):
So it was really the beginning of my career. And
the reason why it was was because number one, I
was never going to be able to leave TMZ with
the reputation that they have there. And this is not
shots at TMZ or anything like that. Once you leave
a place that has such a distinct perch and culture,
(43:20):
it's very difficult for people to believe certain things about you.
And I think going over.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
What do you mean, like what kind of culture? Like
are you familiar with I am familiar with them. I'm
just saying, describe it. Ah, I'm saying from the journalists perspective,
you're saying, like.
Speaker 3 (43:41):
That's what I'm saying. So, look, there's a reason why
like a TMS exists, And honestly, the reason why TMS
exists is the need for people to feel good about themselves.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
The reader or the watcher toe.
Speaker 3 (44:04):
So the celebrity in America is uh overloved, way overloved,
over important, over everything. It just doesn't matter that much
that somebody is famous or rich. It just really doesn't
matter that much. Honestly, it's probably a net negative. However,
(44:27):
it's so it's so precious to people that there's a
need to feel that that person has done or is
doing something.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
Wrong, like to more humanize them.
Speaker 3 (44:43):
Right, So, like the question becomes this, say, take Kim
Kardashian right. Everybody saw her fuck right. Everybody saw her
fuck it's just sex tape out. Everybody saw it right.
Everybody watched the sex tape that comes out. And people
get to make the decision about whether or not they
would have that happen for them, whether or not they
(45:05):
would go through that in order to be Kim Kardashian.
And it makes them feel good to say no. So
it makes them feel good to say, you know what,
I wouldn't want that life. It's too crazy. It makes
them good to feel to say. It makes them feel
good to say, I wouldn't compromise myself in that way.
It makes him feel good to say, I would never
do this. I would never be around these people. I
(45:26):
would never do that. I would never do this. It
makes him feel good to say, Hollywood's too weird, I
wouldn't do that. Right, and TMZ feels that bloodlust that
people have, and it lets them disconnect from the idea
that these people are better than them. It lets them
disconnect because every time somebody gets a DUI and it
goes up to the thing every time somebody gets a divorce.
(45:46):
Everybody in here knows people that have been divorced. Yeah,
there's no magic or sinister story to a divorce. Sometimes
it don't work out. It just doesn't work out. But
you want to believe certain people will never be happy
because their lifestyles are antithetical to happiness in a relationship.
So you want to you want to believe, like like you,
(46:11):
like you, you you, you want to believe that, right,
you want to believe that teams gives you that. In
order to do that, TMZ has to treat those people
like they're not people. They have to treat them as
if their concepts celebrity is not a person.
Speaker 1 (46:29):
That's why I guess TMZ comes off a little bit
invasive and ruthless.
Speaker 3 (46:32):
Right, Well, no, because they're.
Speaker 1 (46:34):
They're not treating they're they're treating them kind of like.
Speaker 3 (46:36):
Well, you have to write like even even the TMZ
tour was a celebrity safari, Like what's on a safari?
Speaker 1 (46:42):
Yeah, animals animals, right and.
Speaker 3 (46:44):
So and so like when when you like the tours
celebrities far as animals, right? And so you do that,
right and what you what you say is okay, Well,
in order to be a celebrity, the game is pr
at its base, right, So this is what you sign
up for kind of right, because like there are certain
things that you don't sign up I'll never talk I'll
(47:05):
never I'll never forget this. There was the sister of
a celebrity that had that had had something taught done
to them. I'll never forget. I'm not gonna talk about
who I had the conversation with. I'm like, Yo, we
shouldn't do that. And they did the story and this
dude went on fucking and let us fucking happ and
I was like, Yo, we had to take it down
(47:27):
and apologize and do all that stuff. I like, yo, like,
there's a limit to this. And that's not me making
a moral judgment on team Team. I'm just telling you
the way things go. So like when you know all
of that, when you have an idea of what drives that,
like obviously they're moral. Uh, there're things that you have
(47:47):
to not care about to work there. But most of
the people there are good people. They're just desensitized to
whatever was going on there because that's where they work,
like like that, like that's what they do. I'm there,
it's the same thing. Things are coming in. At a
certain point, you go, goddamn, you know and it's there
will be little small things. This is a football player
(48:09):
that had this video come out of some altercation. It
was in and it said savage beating by this, and
I was just looking at the hellline. I'm like, that's
I don't think we should go savage beating there. Like
I think savage is like a it's like an interesting
way where there's just little small things. The mayor of
DC died, Marion Barry crack maryor Marion Barry dies like
(48:35):
he died and like, by the way, the people in
DC are going to freak the funk out because I
don't know if you guys know, but Marion Barry was
with Martin Luther King Junior. Like where I'm from, Like
I deal with a group of people, a community, people
that are always categorized by the worst moment that they have.
And I don't feel comfortable with categorizing a man that
(48:57):
means so much to his city by the worst moe
scandalous thing you ever had. You can't talk about his
life without talking about that, but maybe in the headline
you don't do that. So so it so all of
those things start to start to happen, And so for me,
what the place represents. It's not even so much a
bunch of uh, not even so much a bunch of
(49:19):
moral people that are running around trying to get the
dirt on celebrities. It represents our relationship to celebrity and
our relationship to ourselves, because there's no fucking reason whatsoever
why we should spend so much time talking about what
happens in the lives of famous people.
Speaker 1 (49:37):
Famous for more, eating while broke from iHeartRadio and the
(49:59):
black effects of the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows,
Hey, guys, welcome to another episode of Eating While Broke.
We are not in La today. We are over here
at eighty five South Studios with the special guests of
the day. Van Lengthen is in the building. You guys
may know him as podcaster, Academy Award winning executive producer.
(00:22):
You know, but I like to acknowledge you as the
man that stood up to Kanye West in the TMZ
office commissioner of the Commissioner. And we're gonna leave the
Commissioner of the BBI off. But Van, before we get
into where you're at today, I want you to take
me back to where you were when you were broke.
(00:43):
What dish you're gonna have cook for us to eat today?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
So you can start with that, eat my throat.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
So I get out of college around I would say
two thousand and three, two thousand and three, I get
out of college, and there's this like transitional period in
my life because I was always interested in people's stories,
and everybody's story seems so linear. Every story seems linear
(01:34):
when you're at the end of it. Everybody has a
moment that something happened for them. Everybody has a moment
that they realize something, But when you're in the middle
of it, you don't know. You'll know when it's going
to happen for you, you'll know how it's going to
happen for you. Certain people have more certainty than other
people do. But all you can do is work and try.
And I get to this point, and it's this weird,
(01:54):
odd point to where I'm like, nothing that I thought
was going to happen and or no way that I
wanted to go is the way that I wanted to go.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
So you're graduated, we're taking back to when you graduated.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Right, And so I'm working at best Buy And this
is the same time that The College Dropout has come
out around that same time Conye's first album, and he's
talking about great album. He's talking about disillusioned high school
graduates who now have to realize that they're not going
to conquer the world, that what they're going to do
is enter into the American workforce and they're going to
(02:35):
be a part of something, and everything that they did
it's not just not as meaningful as they thought it
was going to be. In a way, it's spiritually debilitating.
And the song is the whole album is about breaking
free of that. Really it's about saying, hey, like I
dropped out, but I dropped out. I took a path
(02:57):
that is, let's admire, but in a way drowned upon
in order to be more alive, Like I'm not killing myself,
and so I'm to the point to where I'm like
having an existential crisis. I'm like, yo, I'm killing myself.
It's not it's not working. And so many things happen
within this two year period. My parents divorced. My mom
leaves the house, and that was very transformative for me, because,
(03:21):
like when a woman leaves a home right away, everything
gets less.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
What you were you were talking about after college though?
Were you living at home with your parents?
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Sure?
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Oh you were. During college.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
I went to Southern University and Van Ruge had gone
away to school, and then I came back and I
went to Southern University because I wanted to be around
all of my friends. So I was still living at home.
The school was about ten minutes away from where we lived.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Okay, So how old were you when your parents.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Were like twenty two or twenty three.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
And so you actually got to see it.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
I got to see it, right, I got to see
it there's two people divorcing and not mommy and daddy divorcing.
And I also got to see, just.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
What do you mean they're not mommy and daddy divorcing.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
It wasn't mommy and daddy divorcing when you're ten and
your parents break up, you're thirteen, fourteen, Mommy and daddy
are divorcing. In my life, Crystal and Terry got a
divorce because I had enough of a frame of mind,
or a frame of reference, should I say, for these
people to know who they kind of really were at
that point. So I knew the anger that my father had,
(04:23):
I knew the paranoia that my mother had. I knew
that these were two people that were on diverging spiritual
growth the journey, should I say, and that they were
no longer compatible, and like what that means, Like when
you're a kid, it's like, oh, you guys gonna get
split up? Okay, who am I going to live with?
It's not the concern for me. The concern for me
is do these people still get to live the version
(04:46):
of their life that they want to live now that
they're no longer together? And so when I saw that,
you know, my mom, I was actually happy for them
that they had made the decision. I was happy for
them that my mother I thought, Okay, this is a
new life for her. She had felt beaten down by
a lot of things emotionally, she had felt unsupported by
a lot of things emotionally, and obviously, with my father
doing some of the things that he was doing, he
(05:08):
must have been unhappy too. So maybe this is a
new life for them. I'm young enough to think at
that point that severing that type of relationship in some
way could be a positive for those two people as
much as they loved each other, and loved each other
until my father passed away. But immediately she left the
house and it was two niggas living in the house
that didn't know how to do shit, Like the house
(05:30):
just became It's like, it's just like, I remember.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Were you young, the youngest to or something? Who are
you the youngest in your family? Because you said it
was just the.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
Two, Yeah I was. I was the youngest in the family.
I was the only one still around. My sister had gone.
You know, my dad had other kids, but they were gone.
But like, so it's just me and him living.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Your dad had other kids, Yeah, what do.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
You mean he had other kids, nigga, you know what
I mean A lot. Yeah, yeah, that's what I'm saying.
So so it was, it was that's another reason why
you're happy for her to go and have a chance
at a life that is for her. Yeah right, And
(06:13):
so you know, me and him are there and it's
like she she's your mom, but she's also like a
genius in creating. She's a genius in keeping things running.
She you get taught this lesson of misogyny, and the
(06:33):
lesson is that somebody leaves the house and they gonna
make a whole bunch of money. And my mother worked
too and made a lot of money. But somebody leaves
the house and gonna makes a lot of money, and
then they come back into a castle and everything that
they touch inside the house turns to go. But you
don't realize that there's somebody who's keeping your life beautiful.
There's someone who's who's attention to detail, somebody whose ability
to multitask, somebody who who looks out for things. Somebody
(06:58):
who when something's broke, they go, Okay, you gotta fix that.
Somebody who when something doesn't work, they okay, we gotta
get it. Working, and the moment that she left, it
was the house crumbled. It fell apart, like the turn
on the stove. Pop pop, then let's just pop. And
I look at him and he looks at me, and
I'm like, right, she gets that fixed. That motherfucker popped
(07:19):
till we got out of the house with him. Never
fixed it, right, The washing machine broke, never got fixed,
you know what I mean. It's just just like little
stuff like that. Like my mother used to come out.
This was a big, beautiful home on about sixty acres
that we had had. She would come out and she
would spray paint, like like power washed the outside of
the house to where everything, like just me and him
(07:42):
were just too focused on the individual things that we
were doing to care about all of that. The place
was just less beautiful because the woman of the house
had gone wow. And so during that whole time, I'm
also broke. I'm also broke. I'm I'm I'm working at
best Buy. I'm like I'm treading water. I don't know
what I want to do. And then Hurricane Katrina comes.
(08:05):
And so when Hurricane Katrina comes, this is like a
weird two year period of my life, like everything changes
like society crumbles. Everybody's strapped for cash because you've taken
on so much more. You got relatives living with you
that come down from down in the city. Everything's different,
(08:26):
and now everyone's trying to stretch that dollar. You're eating different,
you're feeling different, and it just doesn't feel like there's
any abundance. It didn't feel like that in my life.
And so that's when that was the most. That was
the point, honestly, from two thousand and three to two
thousand and five, that was the point where I figured
(08:47):
out myself. I moved to LA in two thousand and six.
By the time I got to LA, I could fucking
handle anything. I could handle anything. I had buried homeboys,
I had put relation in the ground. There was nothing
the world had showed me like some really ill shit.
(09:08):
And so when I got out there and was dealing
with LA, it was a piece of cake.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
So you also navigated, So what this are you going
to have us eat today? Real cheese, grilled cheese. It's
at the staple and the most simplastic and delicious meal.
Did you have to add any tomato, soup or anything?
Or you just didn't? The legendary fuck all that.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
Butter bread cheese. Shout out to my uncle David, resting piece.
Shout out to my uncle Mark, rest in peace. These
guys taught me the beauty the grilled cheese. You know
where they learned it at? Where? So you think? Nah,
where you think they learned the grilled cheese at these
two uncles? What do you think?
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Someone scream? Somebody say it jail, jail.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
I could tell what y'all you've been. I can tell
what kind of life you have been living. They they
they learned the grilled cheese in jail. They were grilled
cheese mechanics.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
They came back in.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Here and they was like, I don't know it was
jail because they because because what.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
Because yeah, because because we know right there was grilled
cheese mechanics.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Okay, well, let's see, let's judge your grilled cheese.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
I haven't made it in a long time, because the
nigga is not broke no more.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
You know what I've been doing this show for. This
will be our this is our third season. We're taping
right now. And some of the dishes are so good
on this show that I go home and I'll make it.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
Broken, not Bronna make it.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
They're good.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Butter is a very it's very sensual. Look at butter
washes washess washes? Oh daddy, you hear that? Look at
the butter go. Oh my god, butter is like delectable.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Right, Oh yeah, I used butter on my cooking.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
Really, what's that? What's that? What's blood pressure? Like?
Speaker 1 (11:02):
I don't know, but I'm really healthy. We're really healthy.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Like what you get a church, Well, I don't know if.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
You could do a good grilled cheese. I'm watching the
way you're making.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
This, girl, It's not gonna be good.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
I'm concerned. I'm concerned because I feel like you are
gonna butcher this grilled cheese.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
It's it's not gonna be good. I can already tell
you it's not gonna be good. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
I mean, yeah, because these jail birds, they definitely jail
the right way. How much cheese is gonna put on
this grilled cheese? This is how you did it, broke? Yeah, man,
you put three pieces of cheese on your broke grilled cheese.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
I don't know if you know this, but like I'm
a big ass nigga.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Yeah nah, bro you're being judged, and right now this
grilled cheese is looking like it's not cool. We're gonna see.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
We'll see well, I mean, we'll see what happens. Cash.
Your question is this show to judge people? Is to
get inspired?
Speaker 1 (11:53):
You know what? The first the first season and a half,
I was very nice with people's feelings, and then I
had someone make tuna castro. They motherfucker, it was terrible. Well,
we tape in LA. Usually like eighty five did this
whole thing for us. Shout outs to eighty five. They
did the whole cooktop and whole build this whole kitchen.
(12:15):
I'm in love with it. Now I'm gonna have to
come to Atlanta more like Atlanta. But yeah, I like it.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
It's cool.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
I haven't seen much out here yet.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Where do you travel to? Where do you go?
Speaker 1 (12:25):
What do you mean? Where do I go?
Speaker 3 (12:27):
Where do you be at?
Speaker 1 (12:27):
I'll be I'll be at LA, New.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
York, La? New York is okay New York, Okay, La
New York.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
I'm from there. You know. Let's focus on y'all story
for sure. Okay, So you graduate, you moved to LA, Yeah,
and you graduate with what degree?
Speaker 3 (12:43):
I have a political science and English.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Degree, okay. And your goal in life before you left
college was to be an attorney okay, and then you
got to La.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
To be uh in the movie game?
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Okay? What happened in between those times to make you
change your career?
Speaker 3 (13:04):
I spoke to a lot of attorneys.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
You found out they don't like their jobs.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
What I found out. So, my brother Jabriel is one
of the most brilliant people I've ever known. Super brilliant,
like ridiculously smart, right smart in a way that's almost inaccessible.
And he went to Morehouse here in Atlanta, and then
he went to Stanford, one of the greatest law schools
in the world. And he didn't have a specific love
(13:33):
for the law, if you ask me, but he is
just an incredibly successful person. And it didn't seem like
to me like that was going to be a fulfilling life.
What I like to do is commiserate, talk, create. Obviously
I like to go back and forth on all of
that stuff, But more than anything, I want to create
(13:56):
things that made people think and discuss. And I don't
think that that was going to be something that was
possible as an attorney.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Okay. Now, a little backstory. So did all your siblings
graduate college no, okay, or any any of them similar
to yours, shows similar to your path.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
My sister's a poet, Okay, She's one of the greatest
poets in the world, really, I think.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
So she made money on it.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
She made no money on it, but she is ridiculously talented.
And I'm inspired by her every single day because she
creates no matter what the circumstance is, Okay, And that,
to me is more impressive than somebody who gets flown
all over the world to create. She creates because she
(14:45):
must create, and not because it's incredibly lucrative for her
to create. So it's in her.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
It's in her, and that makes.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Me feel good.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
So you get to LA. What's the next step.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
I work for a place called Capricorn Programs for a while.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
What do you do there?
Speaker 3 (15:17):
I produce a show called Cybernet. It's a video game show.
So when I first get out to LA, I am
playing video games for a living and then reporting on
those video games on this show Cybernet, and writing for
the show, okay, and then then something happens.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
What happens.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
That company goes belly up financial crisis. So when that
company goes belly up. Guess what I get to do
live on unemployment?
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Hell yeah, I love unemployment.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
Yep, and I become one of the world's foremost pick
up basketball players. Every gym in La you see me,
twenty four hour fitness, you see me.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Oh you didn't try to hustle on top of the unemployment.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
I definitely did. But the most thing that I did
was just play ball and vibe and right. I wrote
so much. I wrote so much, so much stuff.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
But how long were you on unemployment? A year?
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Two?
Speaker 1 (16:16):
You can be on unemployment two years.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
You have to remember that at this time it was
the financial crisis, so they were extending benefits to meet
people's years.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
It's two eighty and then it's like going into twenty
ten basics, and let me tell you what happens.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
This is a true story. So I'm on unemployment, I'm
doing my thing. I'm walking into the gym LA Fitness, Hollywood.
Everybody there knows me. Okay, I'm walking into the gym.
I'm walking into the gym. And as I'm walking into
the gym, a lady outside the gym says, hey, you
want to take place in the cirt. You want to
take part in the survey. Like, yeah, sure, no problem.
She's like, you take part in the survey, and we
(16:56):
like what you say, will give you five hundred dollars.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Oh shit.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
And I was like, hell yeah, okay, So I do
the whole thing. I do my whole little stick. I'm
on a little small camera that she has, and she goes,
we like you, we want you to come out to
this place, do even more stuff, right and take place
in this gigantic, bigger survey. Well, it's not a big deal.
(17:20):
We're gonna have you try out these products. And when
you try these products, we're just gonna ask you what
you think about them. I'm like, cool, no problem, all right.
So I decide to go to this thing. We cheese
it up right now.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
It actually looks really good. Impressed.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
And so I go to this thing into Van Eys,
you know where van So I go in there and
I'm into the little deal or whatever, and a guy goes, Okay,
this is what you're gonna do. I want you to
go in here, take a shower and use this shampoo
because they're doing product testing. Take a shower, use this shampoo.
(17:58):
Right when you get out of there, brush your tea.
Use this toothbrush and this toothpaste. Cool. It's like, don't
do this, don't do that stuff. We took those products
off the list. And then when you come in here,
we want you to shave with this razor. And I'm like, well,
I'm not shaving my beerd He goes, YEA, well you
can just shave at the top and on the and
right here. Just tell us what you think about it.
I'm like, cool, no problem. So after that, cool, I
do all this stuff. I get into this little room
(18:19):
and inside this room is two other guys in the
room and they got toiles on and I'm looking around.
I'm like, yo, what's going on here? What is this?
I try to weigh myself on the scale. Scale doesn't work.
I'm looking in the room. The room looks like a gym,
except I know that we're not in a gym, Like,
what's going on? So I start using the the the razor,
(18:41):
doing like this. And when I start using the razor,
somebody jumps out with a camera and they say, hey,
are you ready for the Gilet Fusion pro Glide Challenge.
It's a commercial. Oh my gosh, And I'm like, oh shit.
And so I'm using the thing. I'm doing the whole thing.
I'm going back and forth to God, I'm having fun.
After the thing is over, I walk in there and
everybody's clapping, like, hey, why how are you doing? You
(19:03):
got did a great job. You're in a commercial boom boom,
So don't make five hundred dollars. I make three thousand dollars.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Yet the freaking out so high because it's.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
A uh, we're done, baby special.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
That's a really good looking grilled cheese. Look at that.
The cheese is bubbling, guys.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
It's bubbling over and it's a little buttered in.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
I just learned a trick and making grilled cheese. What
is it to stack a lot of cheese in the middle.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
I mean, cheese is actually a pretty staple ingredient to
the grilled cheese, I.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Know, but I usually just put like one or two
Yours is like, first of all, you did it really impressed.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
I tell you, I tell you, I tell you why though,
that's why you're healthy. Though you said you were healthy before.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Look at the like the even colored color. I don't
know if it's you did a really impressive grilled cheese.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
Okay, yeah, just slow and slow. Okay. So look, so
I'm there and they're like, okay, so it's Saturday, so
the five hundred bucks that you were promised you get
that it's Saturday, so you get double the session fee
on that, plus like whatever you get like a holding
fee and all of that stuff. So I ended up
making like three thousand dollars for this commercial. Let me
tell you what kind of American I am. I come
(20:12):
home and I'm doing my unemployment and it asked if
you made any money? Yep, Why I put the money
on there?
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Why?
Speaker 3 (20:22):
I don't know. I've seen niggas get the death penalty
for less, so so I put so, I put the
money on there. I put the money on there, and
this is what happens. They then readjust my unemployment quarterly.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Like me, yeah, I told you not to do that.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
So quarterly. So it goes from being I go from
getting five hundred dollars a week in unemployment to seventy
five dollars a week in unemployment. So I go, Okay,
this is the deal. It's not. Obviously they don't think
a nigga could live off this. So I'm just gonna
go up to the unemployment office. I'm gonna talk to
these people. That's why I'm gon deal. I'm gonna go
up to the uneployment for some gonna talk to these people.
(21:00):
I'm straightening this whole thing out. So I go up
there to the unemployment office in Pasadena. I'll never forget.
The lady was like, baby, ain't nothing we can do.
It's in the computer. I was like, uh, I can't
live on this blah blah blah in the computer. So
I needed a job. I had to have a job.
But you know what, the funny thing was the g
(21:22):
let that commercial ended up like making me. That commercial
ran Oh shit, I didn't know anything. I didn't know
anything about being a commercial actor. So I would get
a holding check every now and again. And then I
started making money off the commercial. But that's later I
didn't notice. I came home, and when I came home,
I was like, I have to find a job. I
pulled up entertainment careers dot net. The first job was
(21:45):
TMS tour Guide.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
You were a tour guide, yep.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
It was being a tour guy. TMS was starting a
tour and the tour was like you go around to
different places and you show people different things that happened
like on TMZ, like we would show you where Josh
Hartnett got diarrhea, we would show you where Michael Richards
fucked up at the laugh Factory. It's actually a pretty
(22:10):
good tour. I actually I was one of the first
GUIDs on the tour. I was the first guy on
the tour. So actually a little bit of pride in
the fact that we were able to jump that off
and make it a thing, because it's still going right now.
So I get in there and I do that. I apply.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
That's a brilliant concept now that I think about it.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
The revolutionize the whole game. So I apply. And they're
doing the tours like American Idol. They have all of
these tour guys in there and then every week they
cut a guy. So I'm in there and like they
have me coming in there and whatever. I get the
whole thing. I start with the TMZ tour. This goes
(22:52):
through to about everything I'm talking about. I start with
the TMS tour. I think April of twenty ten, maybe
it might be twenty eleven, whatever it is. I start
with the TMZ tour. Then by July I started in March.
By July I'm on TV every day. Within a couple
(23:13):
of months, Harvey came into the tour. I was up
there doing my thing, and I told a joke and
he liked the joke so much that he brought me
in and put me into the.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Into the newsroom.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
Into the newsroom.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Yep, okay. So then you get this newsroom opportunity, your
pay goes up. Benefits. What are we looking at?
Speaker 3 (23:33):
So this is the way it was working. I was
making money because I was getting tips on the tour.
So I was probably making fifteen hundred dollars a week
straight cash off the tips on the tour. I was
killing these motherfucking white people. I was killing them. Iuse
I was fucking killing them. And then you would you
(23:55):
would come in and you would have like people from
there was tourists like they were from our earlier they
were from Canada. There was a thing that we do
on the tour to where if you see a celebrity
on the tour, you stop the bus, you get off,
you shoot the celebrity. And when you're driving around in
La at certain times, if you know where to go,
it's impossible not to see famous people. Like if you
(24:15):
were coming to La and you and you were hanging
out with me, and I was like, hey, you want
to sit around and watch celebrities all day? There are
three or four places I could tell you where it's
going to happen, and so we would see them, and
I'm a good spotterer. I would spot celebrities and we
would see them, and the people would go cit we
all kinds of people. Fucking Lady God got Leonardo DiCaprio,
(24:35):
David Beckham and just the other niggas that be around,
just niggas that be aroundous. You would just say, you
know the people I'm talking about in La, They just
they'd be around. You see them all the time, Like, hey,
weren't you in Yeah, like you see them. The funniest
thing was b T Wars weekend, right because there would
be all kinds of celebrities that I would recognize that
the bus wouldn't know who they were, and so the
(24:56):
bus wouldn't believe me that these people were famous. I'm like, yo,
I don't know if you know this mother a guy
two number ones, I ain't never heard of him before.
I don't know he signed to Luducris and them. He's
that's like, actually, I don't want to say the guy's name,
but like that's actually that guy is a huge singer,
like you guys should probably care about him. Wait, don't know,
fuck them, keep going No, but I mean so anyway,
(25:21):
so you know, I'm making good money because I'm making
my tips off the tour. I'm doing three different jobs
for TMC. I'm also on the camera with my on
the street with my camera. I'm on the street with
my camera. I'm doing the tour.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Oh, you're doing the tour and the newsroom and all this.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
On the tour and the newsroom. They gave me as
mean jobs as they could.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
And did you join as they were like a startup
or were they like startup level?
Speaker 3 (25:48):
So they were. This was two thousand and so they
started in like two thousand and five. I got there
five years later.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
That's considered still startup.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
Probably, so they were. They were the newsroom cast was established,
so I had to break in. I give I always
give Harvey credit for this. He uh the same joke,
because it's very hard to break into that room because
when you're in the room and you're everybody's fighting for airtime,
(26:16):
the camera's always on Harvey. But as far as you
you got to say something, you gotta do something to
stand out. So you get you start to maximize the
moments that you have, and if you're on that means
somebody else isn't. So once it's ten motherfucker's in there,
they're not looking for the eleventh motherfucker to come in.
But Harvey knew that I had that joke that I
(26:38):
could tell on the I want to hear the joke.
It kind of doesn't work without us being on the tour,
but so we so we passed by the Hustler store
on the tour, and so it would stop on the
Hustler tour, and this was a different time to tell
this joke. Okay, So so we would stop and I
(27:00):
would have the bus stop right by the Hustle store,
and you know, Larry Flynn is right, Larry Flint started Hustler,
and I'd be like, this guy's hustle store. Larry Flint
started Hustler. And I don't know if you guys know this,
but Larry Flint is one of the most important men
in the history of civil rights. And they're like, what
are you talking about? And I was like, well, you
(27:21):
guys might not know this, but Larry Flynn is in
a wheelchair. He was shot. One of the reasons why
Larry Flint was shot was because there were people that
were upset that he was doing interracial photo spreads in
a hustler. It's very true, and the bus will go, oh,
I didn't know that, and I would go like, yeah,
So Larry Flint, it's very important to a right leader
(27:42):
because he took a bullet so that I could fuck
white women. That's that's good, right, And so I remember Harvey,
Oh my god, and so I go and so they
don't want to laugh, they don't.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Want to laugh funny.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
But I'm in the room and I say that everybody,
and it's so far out of left field, and they've
never heard the sound of my voice before. I remember
shout out to Nina Parker, who worked at TMZ with me,
who's still a dear friend of mine to this day.
Beautiful black woman. Nina was looking at me like, I know,
they didn't just bring one of these niggas into the
newsroom where these goddamn Tiger Woods is. But that joke
(28:24):
put me over in the newsroom, and so and he
knew that it would. And so after that boom, they
all left. Another thing I tell the kids, I don't
want to be hyper verbose about the whole TMZ situation,
but another thing I tell the kids is your ability
to succeed at a place is not just about your talent.
(28:45):
It's about your ability to recognize opportunity.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
So the very first year I was there, I realized
that everybody goes home for Christmas, so everybody takes off
for Christmas. So if you watched the show, it's always
a buzzy newsroom. Everybody is around, everybody's doing all of this,
but it's bare bones in there, like any point after
Thanksgiving to the New Year, because everybody's rotating in and
(29:12):
off vacation, but they're still doing the show. They still
have to do a show. They don't go dark for
two weeks like everybody else is a daily show. I
did not go home. I stuck around, And when I
stuck around, I got all of the time to talk
and be on camera that I wanted to. So in
that month, I endeared myself to the audience. Right after that,
(29:33):
he comes in, he goes, we're gonna give you a raise.
We're gonna do all of this next time, contract with
up and just my stature at TMZ just went up
to the point to where I think maybe a year
two years after that, I was a producer.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
So let's take let's let's fast forward to the iconic
moments Kanye West.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
You like him?
Speaker 1 (30:14):
I love Kanye. I love old Kanye.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Now you like him? Now I can tell yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
You know what, it's so funny. So my favorite rapper
is jay Z and my little brother's favorite rapper is Kanye.
But now Eagle acknowledges that jay Z is the ultimate goat.
So you know, we have a great, great relationship. But Kanye,
let me try this girl, cheese, go for it.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
Bless you as straight from Angola State Penitentiary right there.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
Let's see. But Kanye, old Kanye was simply amazing to me.
I loved how outspoken he was. I don't know what
happened in the Kardashian eir, like what kind of drugs
they put him on or what went wrong because he
was always pro from the bush statement like he was
always that guy. So take us to that day, what's
(31:06):
going on like from beginning to end?
Speaker 3 (31:09):
So Harvey had gone to that that butter gonna burn.
So Harvey had gone to you know, the week before then,
Kanye had an album going out, and this is after the
Trump stuff, and he had, you know, gone off at
his at his show and all of that stuff. Harvey
had gone out to Calabasas. He was so giddy calling
(31:30):
me up to his office and he goes, look what
it is. It's me hanging out with Kanye West. So
I'm like whatever, you were like whatever? Yeah, I'm like
at this point, I don't give a fuck about that.
I hate that type of shit. Okay, though, I'll tell
you what I hate. Don't talk to me about who
you was hanging out with ever. Okay, Like, if you
(31:54):
go to a party, when you come back and talk
to me about the party, talk to me about how
the vibes were, where the drinks good, was the music good?
Speaker 1 (32:02):
So if jay Z was in the room, you want
to hear about the drinks.
Speaker 3 (32:04):
I don't give off. I don't give off fuck. If
jay Z came to your party, I couldn't give a fuck.
What do that? So it's a good party because that's
the only thing you be here for a whole So
it's a good party because he was there. Shout out
to him like it's a good party. Because he was there.
I don't give welcome thank you. I don't care at all, Like,
(32:26):
hey man, the drinks was good man, DJ was crazy.
He played that old school juve and now all of
that ship. Now I'm gonna come to the party. If
you start, don't my party. If Jay show up to
your party, it's a I guess it's a big deal
for your party. I'm not saying that. I'm saying that
it doesn't make me want to attend your party because
there are famous.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
People there, of course, but I'm saying that. Okay. So
Harvey comes to you, He's like, yo, I was kicking
it with.
Speaker 3 (32:54):
This. This is all I heard is Kanye Kanye. And
so he shows me the thing and him and Kanye
have some kind of report that they're working on or whatever.
I don't know it's going on. And so a week
after that he like, I'm in the newsroom. And by
the way, at this point, I've been very outspoken on
Kanye because this is Kanye posting with Donald Trump, this
(33:16):
is posts all of that stuff. So it comes up
to me after the morning meeting. He goes, hey, I
was like what there he goes, we didn't want to
tell you but about ten minutes Kanye was about to
show up here. I was like inside of TMZ and
he was like yeah. He was like all right, just
let you know all the mics are going to be down.
(33:38):
Because the way it works is for TMZ Live, which
is the live show. Showa comes in the middle of day.
You have a red button at your desk and a
thing at your desk. Anytime you have that red button,
you can talk. So after Harvey and Charles do their thing,
you hit that red button. You can talk. So when
I want to jump in and say something funny, I
(33:59):
jump in and say something fun When I want to
jump in when it's time for them to come to me,
like Van van Van Talk, you can talk. But they
had all the mics down because they just wanted this
to be Harvey, Charles and Kanye West. Okay, cool. So
I go sit at mine shout out to Charlemagne because uh.
I go sit down at my desk and I start
(34:22):
watching the interview that Charlemagne did with Kanye that dropped
that very same day when he was walking around Calabasa.
So I started watching that. I'm at the desk. Kanye
West comes in, very polite guy, says hello to everyone
and everything like that. They go over to the teams
he live to start doing teams he live. As soon
as the cameras come on, he turns into a fucking demon,
right like when I say you when I'm like it
(34:44):
just I come alive in the nighttime type shit. You
know what I'm saying. Yeah, he's talking now. I mean
I'm not saying that.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
He was being demon like the stuff he was saying.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
Yeah, I mean the demon. I'm not demonizing Kanye West.
I mean it was like the streaming consciousness, the whole thing.
I'm like, oh shit, but I'm still not paying any attention.
I'm not paying any attention. I'm looking at the interview.
I'm not a part of this conversation.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
So you're looking at the interview but watching kind of looking.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
Up or Kanya not really. But remember I've been told
specifically that I'm not part of this conversation. So it's
on them. Uh, Kanye says a slavery four hundred. Oh.
By the way, Kennice Owens is with him. She came
to the office with him.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
I don't know how you're not looking, not watching the
interview and still looking at the sharp interview.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
I'm looking at the Charlemagne interview. They're walking around Calabasas,
like you know, they they Kanye got his hair, you know,
they're having all of these deep as sauces. I'm looking
at but I can. I can hear him though, because
he starts to scream. He doesn't just want to talk
to Harvey and Charles, he wants to talk to all
of us, right, so I can, I can hear him.
It was like, God, damn this nigga, Damn that nigga
(35:51):
on one and so like, I'm still looking at it,
and he says, slavery four hundred years, four hundred years.
That seems like a choice to me, And everybody's like, oh,
look when he said that, couldn't see her. I don't
know she. I think she was in the other room,
(36:12):
because there's a side room. A couple of weeks before that,
and maybe like a month before that, Candace had gone
viral for shutting down some some students that had come
to a turning point us a meeting where she had
said you're a victim and I don't like you, and
fuck civil rights, whatever and and whatever she said to them,
and Kanye was like, this is the type of thinking
(36:32):
that I like. And then he put it. Kanye put
Candisons on like she she she By the way, this
is if any want to make a judgment, call about
Candace Owns, go to whoever you go to, wherever you
want to go to or whatever. But he put her
on basically, so she was with him for a little while.
I think he got a lot of his his his
early political when he was first in that new sort
(36:54):
of right sphere of thought. I think a lot of
he got a lot of that stuff from her. I
think he probably still does it this day, from a
lot of those types of people. Anyhow, so he's talking.
He says that I didn't say anything when he said that.
There's a there's a misconception that he said that. And
I was like, nah, I didn't like. I didn't like like.
I didn't say yeah. People think it was like a
big deal. I didn't say nothing, right, I didn't say
(37:15):
anything at all? His business he asked, He asked very simply.
He said that everyone gasps. One other person had said once,
one other thing about something that he had said. But
most of the people in the room just sidebar real quick.
You guys have no idea I guess you actually probably do,
(37:39):
because Atlanta has per capital more famous people than anywhere else.
You can't go to a fucking mall without goddamn nigga.
Wasn't you in atl But like, but just fame just
paralyzes people, particularly in LA like fame just like just like,
oh my God, doesn't matter what he would have said
up there, He's saying stuff and people are like, Jesus
Christ is the most famous person that's ever And i'side
(38:00):
this officer for it, But.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
I'm surprised because at TMG they crossed past it a lot.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
No nobody like that, Like it's like, especially to be
in the office doing that. It's one thing to have
to see people out on the street and get a
but you know, there's a specific TMZ celebrity that we
talk to all the time. You know, nobody like that.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
So take us back to that moment before you Superman.
Speaker 3 (38:24):
So he says that, and he turns around and he goes,
he says the whole thing, and he goes, does it
feel like I'm speaking freely? He says that. He turns around,
he goes, does it feel like I'm speaking freely? Okay,
now let me tell you a split second, is how
my mind works. Like for me, I just have like
(38:47):
my insecurity is that I just can't be the nigga
you can fuck over. I don't have to be the
number one guy. But like I'll fight you until you
realize you can't fuck over me. I'll play you in
basketball to our realize I can't be the easy guy
to get over on. So if you ask me something
like that and I didn't say anything, there's toxicity in
(39:07):
me that says, I gotta answer this question, like I
can't have allowed him that somebody might think that. It's
like everybody was, like you are filled up with the answers,
is not. I didn't want to feel like a weakling. Yes,
I didn't want to miss my opportunity to tell him
how I feel like he was acting, because then it
feels like I'm the one that he could just kind
(39:29):
of get off on. So he says that, and I
gonna know, y'all, I don't feel like you're thinking anything
like actually you don't know you're I remember, I'm said,
I'm gonna go back to the whole thing. But you look
crazy right now, like everything that you're doing, not just now,
but every other time, like you look crazy, you're not thinking,
and particularly this it's not even about that. It's about
(39:49):
what the regression or how can I put this? Not regression,
it's what a guy like that represents because we empower him.
So imagine like spinning your youth, like arming somebody with
(40:11):
this great, big cultural gun. Everything that Kanye did, we
were I was down in Louisiana wheen he said George
Bush doesn't care about black people. He was my god.
Like all the things that he would say when he
would speak out, like you defend them, you advocate for him.
You do it. You stand by and you just the
little cultural gun that he has, a little megaphone, it
just gets bigger and bigger. The gun just gets bigger
(40:33):
and bigger and bigger, and then one day you're staring
down the barrel of it. Now the things that he's
saying that you've empowered him to say are being turned
right back at you. And so like it's like, hey,
don't shoot me, Like why are you shooting at me?
Like you know what I'm saying. It's like I'm the
same dude like you you Kanye West, I love you. Yeah,
(40:55):
Like if I'm not about to diss him. Never would
I say to you, know, you're a genius. Everything that
you've done is you deserve all the stuff that you've gotten.
We love you. Well, let me tell you how you're
making us feel. That's it. That's it. I'm not trying
to go toe to toad with like a cultural deity,
you know what I'm saying. I'm not trying to act
(41:16):
like he hasn't inspired me in the ways that he's
inspired me, or act like he hasn't done the things
he's done, Like we don't do that where I'm from.
We give you your props, or else we would be haters.
But I just have to let him know, like what
you're doing right now is particularly pernicious to us because
we're in a very specific place in this country. And
when you go back and you watch it, you listen, Now, look,
(41:37):
my thing is this, any one person like that. There's
no person that's going to be able to be a
nigger whisperer and change what somebody thinks. Like there's a
day to day experience that people have that has to
do with their surroundings, who they are, their input and
output that's going to affect how they look at the world,
and you're not asking anybody to be to change that.
(41:57):
But what I do think is important as black people
who is for us to be cognizant of how what
we do affects other people. For example, I worked at
TMZ for nine years. I'm not in a moral position
to chastise anyone, like literally, like not in a figurative way.
(42:18):
I'm not in a moral position to chastise anyone. I
understand compromises that people have to make in order to
get to where they want to get. I understand that
sometimes people might walk into situations and not really know
what it is that they're getting into. And then on
the other side, you know better than you do better, right,
So it's not about that. It's about just alerting someone
(42:41):
when you feel like they're doing harm and then that's that.
And then after that, after I've said my piece, you
can choose either you can continue to harm me or
you can be different.
Speaker 1 (42:51):
So how did that milestone with Kanye change the trajectory
of your life? Because it definitely had a huge impact.
Speaker 3 (43:00):
So it was really the beginning of my career. And
the reason why it was was because number one, I
was never going to be able to leave TMZ with
the reputation that they have there. And this is not
shots at TMZ or anything like that. Once you leave
a place that has such a distinct perch and culture,
(43:20):
it's very difficult for people to believe certain things about you.
And I think going over.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
What do you mean, like what kind of culture? Like
are you familiar with I am familiar with them. I'm
just saying, describe it. Ah, I'm saying from the journalists perspective,
you're saying, like.
Speaker 3 (43:41):
That's what I'm saying. So, look, there's a reason why
like a TMS exists, And honestly, the reason why TMS
exists is the need for people to feel good about themselves.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
The reader or the watcher toe.
Speaker 3 (44:04):
So the celebrity in America is uh overloved, way overloved,
over important, over everything. It just doesn't matter that much
that somebody is famous or rich. It just really doesn't
matter that much. Honestly, it's probably a net negative. However,
(44:27):
it's so it's so precious to people that there's a
need to feel that that person has done or is
doing something.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
Wrong, like to more humanize them.
Speaker 3 (44:43):
Right, So, like the question becomes this, say, take Kim
Kardashian right. Everybody saw her fuck right. Everybody saw her
fuck it's just sex tape out. Everybody saw it right.
Everybody watched the sex tape that comes out. And people
get to make the decision about whether or not they
would have that happen for them, whether or not they
(45:05):
would go through that in order to be Kim Kardashian.
And it makes them feel good to say no. So
it makes them feel good to say, you know what,
I wouldn't want that life. It's too crazy. It makes
them good to feel to say. It makes them feel
good to say, I wouldn't compromise myself in that way.
It makes him feel good to say, I would never
do this. I would never be around these people. I
(45:26):
would never do that. I would never do this. It
makes him feel good to say, Hollywood's too weird, I
wouldn't do that. Right, and TMZ feels that bloodlust that
people have, and it lets them disconnect from the idea
that these people are better than them. It lets them
disconnect because every time somebody gets a DUI and it
goes up to the thing every time somebody gets a divorce.
(45:46):
Everybody in here knows people that have been divorced. Yeah,
there's no magic or sinister story to a divorce. Sometimes
it don't work out. It just doesn't work out. But
you want to believe certain people will never be happy
because their lifestyles are antithetical to happiness in a relationship.
So you want to you want to believe, like like you,
(46:11):
like you, you you, you want to believe that, right,
you want to believe that teams gives you that. In
order to do that, TMZ has to treat those people
like they're not people. They have to treat them as
if their concepts celebrity is not a person.
Speaker 1 (46:29):
That's why I guess TMZ comes off a little bit
invasive and ruthless.
Speaker 3 (46:32):
Right, Well, no, because they're.
Speaker 1 (46:34):
They're not treating they're they're treating them kind of like.
Speaker 3 (46:36):
Well, you have to write like even even the TMZ
tour was a celebrity safari, Like what's on a safari?
Speaker 1 (46:42):
Yeah, animals animals, right and.
Speaker 3 (46:44):
So and so like when when you like the tours
celebrities far as animals, right? And so you do that,
right and what you what you say is okay, Well,
in order to be a celebrity, the game is pr
at its base, right, So this is what you sign
up for kind of right, because like there are certain
things that you don't sign up I'll never talk I'll
(47:05):
never I'll never forget this. There was the sister of
a celebrity that had that had had something taught done
to them. I'll never forget. I'm not gonna talk about
who I had the conversation with. I'm like, Yo, we
shouldn't do that. And they did the story and this
dude went on fucking and let us fucking happ and
I was like, Yo, we had to take it down
(47:27):
and apologize and do all that stuff. I like, yo, like,
there's a limit to this. And that's not me making
a moral judgment on team Team. I'm just telling you
the way things go. So like when you know all
of that, when you have an idea of what drives that,
like obviously they're moral. Uh, there're things that you have
(47:47):
to not care about to work there. But most of
the people there are good people. They're just desensitized to
whatever was going on there because that's where they work,
like like that, like that's what they do. I'm there,
it's the same thing. Things are coming in. At a
certain point, you go, goddamn, you know and it's there
will be little small things. This is a football player
(48:09):
that had this video come out of some altercation. It
was in and it said savage beating by this, and
I was just looking at the hellline. I'm like, that's
I don't think we should go savage beating there. Like
I think savage is like a it's like an interesting
way where there's just little small things. The mayor of
DC died, Marion Barry crack maryor Marion Barry dies like
(48:35):
he died and like, by the way, the people in
DC are going to freak the funk out because I
don't know if you guys know, but Marion Barry was
with Martin Luther King Junior. Like where I'm from, Like
I deal with a group of people, a community, people
that are always categorized by the worst moment that they have.
And I don't feel comfortable with categorizing a man that
(48:57):
means so much to his city by the worst moe
scandalous thing you ever had. You can't talk about his
life without talking about that, but maybe in the headline
you don't do that. So so it so all of
those things start to start to happen, And so for me,
what the place represents. It's not even so much a
bunch of uh, not even so much a bunch of
(49:19):
moral people that are running around trying to get the
dirt on celebrities. It represents our relationship to celebrity and
our relationship to ourselves, because there's no fucking reason whatsoever
why we should spend so much time talking about what
happens in the lives of famous people.
Speaker 1 (49:37):
Famous for more, eating while broke from iHeartRadio and the
(49:59):
black effects of the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows,
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