October 11, 2023 • 37 mins
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Wake that ass up in the morning.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Breakfast Club.
Speaker 3 (00:05):
Morning everybody, It's DJ n V charlamagnea God. We are
the Breakfast Club. We got a special guest in the building.
Show me a Christiana Murphy, Show me a Christiana Murphy.
I didn't want you to attend.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
I've been practicing that. I've been practicing for the last
five minutes.
Speaker 4 (00:18):
I was going. I wasn't sure who was going to
do it, right, but both of you in Unison.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
I've been practicing last That's why I didn't really say nothing,
because it was on my mind.
Speaker 4 (00:27):
So yeah, yeah, he was really in thought when I
came in. But I love it. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
You have a book out right now called Fashion Killer.
Speaker 5 (00:33):
And before we get to the book, you know Sonia
is the world renowned hip hop journalist.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Yes, yes, like what else?
Speaker 2 (00:40):
What other hyphenness would you put on that.
Speaker 4 (00:42):
Hip hop journalists on air host? And I've literally known
shar since I was knee hydro grasshopper. I think I
met him when he first moved from South Carolina.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
The fact.
Speaker 4 (00:52):
Yeah, and then we did this show called POV on
MTV seven episodes. If you stayed up till midnight and
watched it, Thank you. It's now what's called classic. In
my mind, it's like the paid in full of like
hip hop shows. But yeah, so since then I've been
able to interview so many artists and Fashion Killa is
my first book. Wow drops ten ten, so order it everywhere.
(01:16):
This is the first anthology about hip hop and high fashion,
and obviously it comes out on Hip Hop fifty.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Why a book about fashion?
Speaker 4 (01:24):
It's so interesting. The genesis was it started as an
article in Double XL and as I was doing the research,
I saw that there are no books about this and
one thing about the lit space, and you know the
shars that a lot of times hip hop stories just
aren't elevated in the same way other genres are rock music,
pop music. Right, it's still sort of seen is either
(01:46):
niche or still kind of underground, to be honest with you.
So to me, knowing hip Hop fifty was coming up,
this is such a great opportunity to write, really that
definitive story, that fifty year retrospective. And I'm one of
those people. If I don't see it in the marketplace,
well I might as well just do it myself, right.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
I was going to ask, you know what do you
break down in the book, because you know when you
go sometimes you go to Vegas and you go to
Planet Hollywood, right, you see all these rock and roll
idols on the wall, and you see their guitar, and
you see their shirt, and you see there whatever, or
you see some pop stars. I don't really see that
that much for hip hop, which is concerned and we
do have a lot of things that is pretty big,
but you know, whether we're talking about uh you know, but.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
That's such of the run dmc adidas.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Imagine like Cameron and Blue or Cameron's pink fur. You know,
things like that that really step outside.
Speaker 4 (02:34):
Of the Smithsonian, right, the Cameron pink fur. But I
think Envy you make such a good point. It is
still this idea. Although hip hop is fifty, it's still
not viewed kind of through that prestige lens. Right. Yeah,
I mean you have the Smithsonian, you have these like
little moments here and there, but this idea that it
should be elevated and really treated with the gravitas that deserves.
(02:55):
I think those are the opportunities. And for me, that's
I just didn't see.
Speaker 5 (02:59):
That's because it's not I don't think hip hop has
looked at through the lens of art, and it should
be everyone.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Salam Remy was.
Speaker 5 (03:05):
Up here and he had these big paintings of like,
you know, some of our favorite hip hop artists. When
you see it as a painting, you're like, oh, you
look at it different on when they do the book
of Whole exhibit in Brooklyn, you're like, oh, like, we're
not looking at it through the lens of art.
Speaker 4 (03:19):
Yeah, And you know, for me, just having a hardcover
book out, you open it and yeah, of course there's
like forty great photos of like Biggie and Cam and
Cardi B and all these people, but there's also history,
their sociology, their's psychology. It's so much more layered than
just a rapper war dope outfit. And I think a
lot of times people see it through that cursory lens,
(03:41):
and it's much more nuanced than that.
Speaker 5 (03:43):
Break down this coverle because I hit you when I
told you this cover is fantastic, phenomenal, like break down
that cover.
Speaker 4 (03:50):
So it's so funny. That cover was a little bit
there were some back and forth, a little arguments with
some people. So basically, fashion Killa is obviously a nod
to the asap rocky song where he named checks like
twenty seven brands. Right, he was saying brands that nobody
had heard of, and I wanted something that really made
it stand out in the marketplace. With the cover. If
you look at again, a lot of hip hop books,
(04:11):
it's like a guy with a big chain, something very
sort of stereotypical or kind of looks cheap. If I'm
going to be honest, and for me, I wanted it
to look lux I want to look sexy. Even if
you don't read one page, it's gonna look good on
your coffee table. It looks great and selfies. So I
wanted this to be a book. It's very much a
nod to McQueen obviously with the skull, but again to
(04:33):
differentiate it, to show that this is something different, it's special,
and almost treat it like a luxury product. Right. I
manags like walking down the street having a really sexy book.
That's kind of an accessory. Right. And it's also a
great conversation starter too.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Do you break down how, especially in hip hop, how
we make somebody these fashion brands cool? How a lot
of times you look at somebody these brands, whether it's Gucci, Now,
I'm not gonna say Gucci wasn't cool, but Gucci became
cool because we started wearing it, whether it's Louis Vatan
or whatever. Maybe do you break that down and some
of the impact that we've had on those brands.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
Absolutely, you know, it's funny. One of the chapters is
called nineteen ninety one and a lot of people don't
realize Carl lager Fell did a whole hip hop themed
runway show back in ninety one, and it was, you know,
big chains and name plates and baseball cap to the side. Now,
of course rappers and hip hop weren't given homage, right,
(05:24):
but the idea that someone like Carl lager Fell for
Chanelle was doing it all the way back then. The
influence has always been there. Now, the thing is the relationship.
I think very much starred as the outsider so hip
hop not being accepted but also not being able to
afford it. You got to think back to someone like
Dapper Dan, He's like, the only people who could afford
my stuff were drug dealers and athletes. Only then when
(05:47):
Ell and Eric b Rock him, people like that Caine,
when they were able to afford it, then they become
the consumer, we go into the nineties, which is my
personal favorite era, where we start to see Sean John
and Rock Aware and all of these rapper led brands, right,
and then now I think we're in an age of collaboration.
So you have Pharrell over at Louis Vuitton. You see
(06:07):
artists like Asap, Rocky or Travis Scott very much being
partners with these brands. But you know, as we saw
with Dapper Dan, I mean his sort of full circle
moment with Gucci happened after they bit his style, right,
and only after Twitter came and really rallied around him
was he able to have this incredible comeback. I would
hope it doesn't take outrage and those kind of scandals
(06:30):
for hip hop to truly have a seat at the table,
whether it be decision making, design or just being represented
in fashion.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
Why do you think it's so difficult for black brands
to succeed and have longevity?
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Right?
Speaker 3 (06:42):
You named a lot of these brands, Sean John, who
I don't even think it is in existing anything they.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
Are working on relaunching. He brought it, he bought it back,
and he had a moment at the med Gala with it.
And from what I've heard behind the scenes, just between us,
is that they are working on some sort of a
cap seal or relaunch.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
So why do you think it's so difficult for black
brands to stay you know, longevity, or for us to
even support them like that. You know, we support everything else,
but not our black brands.
Speaker 4 (07:10):
It's hard. I think when we talk about rapper led brands, first,
a lot of it is tied to the artists. So
when the artist isn't hot, you don't want to wear
their clothes no more, right, and so many of those brands.
I mean, are you wearing Marshall Mathers clothing right now? Maybe?
I mean I'm from Michigan, so maybe we always wear it.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Mathea line.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
You know, there was woo wear. Remember bust A had
a line dmxattle. There was the time everyone had a line.
It was get a record deal, have one hit record
to have a line, right. A few of them, Sean
John Rock aware they kind of elevated where they were
making hundreds of millions of dollars. But I think a
lot of it is you can't tie something to something
as seasonal as an artist trend, because when you're not
(07:57):
the flavor of the moment, and it happens to everyone.
No one wants to wear your clothes. I think the
other part is just for brands. It's really expensive. A
lot of people ask me why don't think then grappers
want to have their own brands? Now do you want
to spend your own money to have you know, focus
on manufacturing and supply and all of these things distribution.
It's a similar to the music business. There's a reason
(08:18):
everyone's still signs to the majors. It's better to spend
someone else's money.
Speaker 5 (08:22):
Does that mean that you put away your ovohity? Have
you put any you know what?
Speaker 4 (08:27):
Shar So this is funny and I was a former
Aubrey's Angels, I can say that amongst the former Aubrey's angels,
that was a day one. I was day one when
it was not cool to be a Drake fan, right,
But he lost me somewhere after views. It's almost like
that friend from high school that we have nothing in
common anymore, and I kind of don't want to hang
(08:48):
out with them, so I'll see you on social media,
but let's never speak again.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Damn right, what do you.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Think it was? Do you think they disconnect it?
Speaker 4 (08:56):
You know, It's funny. I think from day one would
always gravitate me towards Drake was he was vulnerable. That
was his superpower when he stopped trying to act like
Wayne or Jay and he was just this goofy kid
from Toronto. Half white, nice, you know, white Jewish mom.
That's what we loved about him. And in those vulnerable moments,
(09:16):
whether it's brand new or too much like, those are
the records that made me like Drake, and especially growing
up when you're in your mid twenties. He was that
perfect blend of emo and toxic, which is what all
of us were dating and acting at the time. But
now ten plus years later, I just feel like we
grew in separate directions. And when I listened to this
new album and let me know what your thoughts are,
(09:39):
I was like, who is this? Who's Aubrey? And what
I want from him now is a classic album. What
is your magnum opus as a grown man, as a father.
We know you have hits, we know you can get
any single person as a feature. I want that definitive
Drake album. Where's my four four four moment? Where's my
life is good moment? That's what I want. From Aubrey.
(10:00):
But so until then, the Ovio hoodie stays in the drawer.
It's not coming out because I feel like I'm just
a recovering Aubrey's Angel.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
That's fair criticism.
Speaker 5 (10:09):
But you know, even with the four for four, which
I think is one of the most it'll go down
as one of the most important hip hop bobles of
all time that didn't come till.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Jay was like in his mid forty, close to fifty.
Speaker 4 (10:18):
You know, I mean Drake is like thirty seven. Yeah,
as a millennial, I will say that we love where
Peter Pan. We don't want to grow up. But to me,
listening to this album, if you're going to give me
twenty three tracks, you got to say something because to me,
usually a double album is a fail because what do
you have to say for twenty three tracks? Life after
(10:38):
Death speaker Box, Like, there are few of these moments
that made sense when I listened to the album? What
what did I glean? I just felt like I wanted
my time back.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Damn spoken from a Formers Angel.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
But I feel.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
There's like a heart group for us somewhere. Album right
there has to be, But we have given so much
to this You guys don't remember. There was a time
in the music business Drake wasn't cool and I would
have fights with people like charl Magno. He's a person
and he's gonna be big, and you got to appreciate
him and love him. And they're like, nah, he's first
of all from Canada, so what does that mean? The
(11:15):
singing rapping combo, you know, didn't really make sense. Then
they thought he was kind of a goofball, like he
came from true to grassy. But people like me were
literally up. I'll never forget Midnight Valentine's Day two thousand
and nine. So far gone, drops, hitting that Z share pressing,
play tears, Wow, tears, Wow, I remember take Care came out.
(11:38):
I'm like, this man knows my life story. Wow, start
to finish Classic. So I've really invested in him. I've
been to Ovo Fest, I covered it for Rolling Stone,
like I have put in my owl points, and now
it's time to pay.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
I guess that's why I'm just a little confused.
Speaker 4 (11:52):
Because like, you haven't put in your owl points. I
know you haven't.
Speaker 5 (11:56):
I'm grown to appreciate him over the years. I've never
been a real huge fan of his.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
His music.
Speaker 5 (12:00):
But I like the way he moves at certain times.
I guess the only thing that's confusing me now.
Speaker 4 (12:04):
But you like how he moves as like a person or.
Speaker 5 (12:07):
As a person is he's gotten at a certain times,
especially during that whole back to back era, like I thought,
because the way he handled that was perfect.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Oh you accused me and not writing. Okay, I'm gonna
bar you up.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
But what about the whole pusher thing?
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Push it with?
Speaker 4 (12:20):
That's a rough one.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Push it's a different beast.
Speaker 5 (12:23):
Though, Like, don't poke the bear, that is true, that
is true to push it a different beast. Just I
just think this album to me is just like it's Drake.
Like I don't see any difference between.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
So it's mid twenty three songs of mid.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
It just sounds like Drake to me. It's just the
sacond we've been getting.
Speaker 4 (12:38):
No, it isn't like again, I think you got to
go back into the discography and now I'm gonna sound
like I wrote a book about Drake. It's this idea
that what really resonated. I mean, you go to so
Far Gone, the standard track is brand new. It's not
a great song. It's not even singing that well. But
he's talking about dating somebody and feeling inadequate. How many
men would openly say that their mixtape like is anything
(13:02):
I'm doing brand new? And I remember that happened, and
all of us were just collectively sobbing on Tumblr at
the same time. Now I look at him, You're rich,
any girl you want? Okay? And then what right? And
I think right now in his life, had he given me,
let's say, and now I'm going to be an ovo
an R a double album. Maybe one half is Drake,
(13:24):
one half is Aubrey, I'd been okay with that, Like,
who are you at this life stage? You have a kid?
Speaker 2 (13:30):
You want to hit more?
Speaker 4 (13:31):
But yeah, like, I know nothing about this man, Whereas
in the beginning I felt I knew about his mom,
his uncle, his friends, and all of the issues he
was going through. I know nothing about him. He like
hangs out the strip club and it hangs out with
like younger artists. He's his best friend.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
I think Drake gets busy rapping, when he wraps, he
gets busy, hands down, he can go with the best
of them. I think the problem with Drake is when
he first came out, your hardcore hip hop fans were
making fun of him, right, Charlmagne used to used to
make so much fun. Charlamage's going to Princess Boy, and
that was the thing that connected, right. So then he
goes to this thing where I don't think he wanted
to be himself and wanted to prove that he was
(14:07):
a rap up.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
So then he started rapping.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
He started, you know, doing features with everybody to show
you I can outrap people. But then I think he
started losing his call, which was his women, which is yourself.
So now he tries to do a balance of both,
which I think is very difficult for himself, you know
what I mean.
Speaker 4 (14:20):
And here's I want to be very honest. I love Bars, right,
I'm the person who listened to Jay and Mob deep
and big out. Like I hate when they say women
don't like lyrics, like with what's the saying I made
a track for the women. This is a song for
the girls. No, No, everybody can like AllMusic, but to me,
there's an emotional depth that's missing because you can do
(14:40):
it over Bars. Jay has done it, Nas has done it,
but I just need to see more than Okay, I'm
the best, and you know, even just this idea of
who he's collaborating with. He could call anybody. He can
probably call Shade and get her on a track, right,
Like Forty has worked with her on stuff you're working
with yet Chief Keith like, it just feels like he's
(15:02):
pandering to gen Z, right, And I don't You don't
have to you make hits. People come to you. Give
me something different like what Kendrick did. Right. Kendrick's like,
I'm not going to give you a single laden album,
but I'm gonna let you have such a look into
my life that's so intimate, Like I feel I know him,
his family, what he's going through. I need that moment
(15:23):
from Drake and I think he could give a to us.
Speaker 5 (15:24):
I agree with you, and I think Kendrick's album is
also going to go down as one of the most
important hip hop albums of all time. But when the
album came out, people was like, Oh, that's too much
for me.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
You know, folks are these emotionally stunted people, you know,
I think that's just Charle Man and his friends.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
This he has too much for me. It's a little
too deep. I'm like, I loved it for the way
I'm at in my life right now.
Speaker 5 (15:44):
I loved it him talking about therapy, doing the work
on himself, you know, being faith with his wife like this.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Dealing with his trauma. I loved it. I was like,
this is if hip hop is going in this direction,
I'm all for it.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
And think about our most iconic artists. Look at someone
like Tupac, very complicated, controversial, but those moments he showed
who he was, his vulnerability, that's what resonates. It's not
just hit records. I mean a lot of people have
hit records, but like, I'll never forget even you know,
like when Biggie would rap about his mom. Those were
the moments that just stuck with me, Like, you're an
(16:15):
incredible rapper, great storyteller, but who are you? And I'm
also a journalist, right so for me, even when I
talk to artists, there's got to be more than just
all right, So talking about the album vibes, Oh okay,
I interview so many young artists. Now, so why do
you want to be a rapper? I'm a brand, I'm
a rock star. Oh so you don't even want to
(16:36):
be here? Why am I here? You know? And I
think that's just indicative of where we are sort of
in culture where a lot of artists they're not thinking
about again as the artistry you're creating art and putting
into this world. And maybe again, I have high standards
for Drake because you know, I put in my ovo points.
But to me, as the biggest rapper out now, what
(16:57):
he gave us, I think is going to be ultimately forgettable.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
I don't know how you say that for Biggie, right,
because Biggie is my favorite rap Biggie j my favorite rep.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
I love Biggie right.
Speaker 4 (17:04):
What order?
Speaker 3 (17:06):
That's a tough one. I think probably it would almost
be a tide. I'm gonna tell you why. I think
a lot of people forget how nice Biggie is right
until they go back and to listen to that album
again and stuff that he said back then. However long
twenty years Agody to die or life.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
After life after death?
Speaker 3 (17:22):
Right, But in that Biggie's music he does talk about
his mom at times, but you don't.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Really get to get into Biggie's life as much.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
He does a lot of stuff that no, I mean
when he does the story to tell and he does
the what do you do.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
When your man is untrue?
Speaker 5 (17:36):
Like when you see regular I was ready to Die
on Suicidal Thoughts.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Suicidal but that was the first album. That was the
first album. You're talking the second named off the second album.
Speaker 4 (17:49):
Limits on the second album.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
But ready to Die and the other.
Speaker 4 (17:52):
One first, just imagine your first I'm called ready to Die.
Just think about like that mindset, right, and the fact
this young man and this album ends called suicide thoughts.
He spoiler alert to anyoneho hasn't heard the album. He
you know, unlives himself and this idea that to show
that that's what resonated with people. I remember DMX, incredible artist,
(18:16):
battle rapper, charisma. What resonates with people rare? Of course,
those are those moments. And I'm not saying the whole
album has to be emo, right. I mean, I love
a good cry, but I think you can have the balance.
So if a gonehead of balance, take care head of balance,
even I would say nothing was the same. I mean,
when he does too much, I think it's called with SAMFA.
(18:38):
If you haven't seen that live performance, please do. He's
literally talking to his family. He's like, we can't talk
about these things in private, So I'm going to tell
the world this is what's going on. How fame has
changed you, Right, These are the things that I think
fans resonate with.
Speaker 5 (18:51):
You don't think that Drake has enough catalog to where
he can be considered a complex artist, Like he's just complex.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
I think he is. I mean, one thing we also
got to give him. He has had an unprecedented run
absolutely nine to twenty twenty three, and during the paradigm
shift of people buying CDs to streaming, no one else
has been able to work both of those very different mindset.
And one thing I always give him and his team,
they always have their mind and what's the next song,
(19:19):
what's the next sound, what's the next scene, whether that's
UK Drill, whether what's going on in Memphis with like
block Boy, Like they know what's coming up Migos Versace.
I mean, he was on it early, and I always
give him props for that. But I don't know. I
almost feel like, if I'm going to psychoanalyze him, I
feel he's just going through some sort of like a
(19:41):
third life crisis, like figuring out who he is as
a person, as an artist, his legacy, and he's just
kind of grappling with it. To me, that's why as
I listened to it. I'm like, he doesn't know what
to do.
Speaker 5 (19:52):
This is a season for anybody who puts out that
much content. Yeah, you know, he's contently putting out a
new project every year. This this might well be he's
on right now, like he might. I have no doubt
at some point he's going to give us that mature
album everybody's looking for, because we know that's in him,
because he was giving us that early on when we.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Were clowning them, right, you were clowning yeah, when I
was coming.
Speaker 4 (20:13):
I never clowned him.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Yes, So I know it'll come back enough. Drake took, like,
we get back to the book.
Speaker 4 (20:17):
By way, Drake, if you want to buy my books?
And so for about ten minutes, that's great.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
What came first for you to love a fashion and
love a hip hop?
Speaker 4 (20:25):
Oh? Love hip hop? Okay, one hundred percent. But so
I grew up in Kalamazoom, Michigan, which outside of Derek Jeter,
nobody else knows where that's from because that's where he's from.
And you got to remember, we didn't have hip hop radio,
we didn't have you know, concerts coming through like that.
So so much of my relationship was through things like music. Videos,
magazines like Vibe and The Sore and Blaze. So the
(20:48):
music and the visuals really went hand in hand at
a very early age for me.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
When you would when when you started off early on
where your parents into it, because I know a lot
of times when when hip hop started coming out, parents
would like, get this rapid, rap ish out.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
I'll never forget and my mom is here, so hi mom.
That they the first time they saw CD with the
expletive like sticker, it made it gave them pause. But
you know I had straight a's. I wasn't emulating that
in any way. I couldn't even swear at home back then.
I can barely do it now. And they were okay
(21:20):
with it. But if you went to my bedroom, my
bedroom wall was plastered silk, the Shaker, Beanie, Seagull nas Jay.
I mean, it was very strange that I was the
kid who went to Meyer grocery store and bought Blaize
magazine in Kalamazoo. No of those words fit together, but
they all fit together, you know. I think the good thing, though,
is when you come from sort of a not like
(21:42):
an epicenter of hip hop or fashion, you have a
bird's eye view and one thing about this book, I
wanted to be very inclusive. It isn't just New York.
Of course, that's the mecca, you know, one fun store
A lot of people don't know. August eleventh, nineteen seventy three,
the famous Cool Herk House party. We talked about it
with Hip Hop fifty right. The origin story. He was
(22:02):
doing the party for his sister Cindy, who was doing
it to raise money for her back to school wardrobe. Right.
So from day one it was this sort of like
the thread was there, but for me, it was important
to focus on other regions. Have to go to the
West Coast, have to you know, interviewing people like a
Crooked Eye for example, had to go down south Young
Thug Andre three thousand. How they push these gender boundaries,
(22:27):
sexuality boundaries with their fashion as well as overseas. We
can't talk about streetwear without Nego and Japan and all
of those things, and showing this is really a global story.
That was really important that it isn't just New York centric,
and through sort of a male lens, focusing on the women,
especially the unsung heroes, not just the artists, but designers, stylist, editors.
(22:51):
With that April Walker. I mean, just a seminal figure
in streetwear. She came up around the same time as
Carl Kanai cross colors. She was dressing Biggie Tupac like
all of these people, very early. But you know, for
a variety of reasons. I think one thing just being
her gender. She doesn't get those accolodes and those flowers.
(23:12):
You know, similarly of people like Misa Hilton, Groovy MoU
and Ambrose. Yeah. Absolutely, even people like kimoral Ley Simmons.
People forget. I mean, she was running Baby Fat. That
was a streetwear brand. We may not talk about it
like we talk about Supreme and Stucy and those things.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Even how you were shoting out all the women, he
tried to slip a guy in.
Speaker 4 (23:31):
I heard it, and I didn't want to say anything.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Shout outs to Groovy Lou, she said, Biggie, I know,
Groovy Loud.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
She was shouting out the women.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
She was shouting out all women.
Speaker 4 (23:44):
He like back Door, she said.
Speaker 3 (23:47):
K she named another black brand, Yes she did. And
I say, women, guys, do.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
We need couples therapy?
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (23:54):
All right, yes, I can play some drake and we
can light again.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
What about a little Kim because you broke down her.
Yea such a fashion.
Speaker 4 (24:02):
I I mean little Kim from day one? Who can
forget that famous poster of hardcore. I don't know if
you guys remember, but I think a lot of boys
became men.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
That you and they saw that that was on the wall.
Speaker 4 (24:14):
It's actually currently on his.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Wallcore the story.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
I got a homeboy who was high off hash.
Speaker 4 (24:22):
And he said this in South Carolina.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Yes, And he said that Little.
Speaker 5 (24:25):
Kim climbed off out of that post and left.
Speaker 4 (24:30):
This isn't a magic eye. What was he trying to see?
Speaker 2 (24:33):
Like the he swears by that.
Speaker 4 (24:36):
That's kind of the greatest hash ever we found out
who dealer was. Jesus, the best hash.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
South Carolina is what it was.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
But why do you think she's such a fashion?
Speaker 4 (24:47):
But yeah, so Little Kim very early on, she was
very fearless. And this was a woman who embraced her sexuality,
her body at a time that it still wasn't acceptable.
I mean, if I was looking a lot of archival footage,
she's sitting here in day ti TV, grown men and
women wagging their finger and you're the downfall of America.
But she stayed true to herself, and early on she
(25:08):
worked with people like Dona Tella Versacei and Mark Jacobs.
She became amused to them because in fashion, what's more
exciting than a gorgeous woman who sits very proudly in
her skin. But Kim, like a lot of artists, specially
female artists, they never got their flowers. If you remember,
Carti b was the first female rapper on the cover
of American Vogue. Wasn't Kim, wasn't Fox, wasn't Missy Elliott,
(25:32):
wasn't Eve all great contenders, by the way. So now
a lot of people in the fashion world are talking
about maybe she should get like a Lifetime Achievement award
or something, because not only did she birth a generation
of female artists, but so many designers have taken just
her elements, from the wig, the makeup, the diy creations
that she wore. She definitely represents somebody who was fearless.
Speaker 5 (25:55):
What was it about Virgil that made hip hop artists
currently celebrate him the way that they do, You know,
you don't really see that with designers like why Rogier.
Speaker 4 (26:05):
Well, Virgil came from hip hop, and there's a great
picture in my book of Virgil Kanye, Fwnsworth, Bentley and
a few other guys at Paris Fashion with.
Speaker 5 (26:13):
I remember that, yeah, that they used to.
Speaker 4 (26:16):
Kill that picture. But looking now, they all came dressed
and they were peacocking. They were looking for the camera
because and I interviewed Fwonnsworth for the book and he's like,
we want to show we arrived. This was important that
we are here as young black stylish men in Paris
and you will take our photo. So Virgil came up
with Kanye, was very close to him as a creative director.
(26:38):
They were both interns together at Fendy. Now, look, I
interned at bad Boy, and I'm pretty sure that they
got to do more fun intern things at Fendy, Kanye
and Virgil. But I love the fact that they wanted
to earn their stripes, like no, no, no, we need
to go to the source, and we don't want to
just be the cool guys jumping in. We want to
be respected. One thing Virgil I think did very well
(26:58):
was he's a great dot connector. He will take someone
from hip hop, someone from art, someone from this, you know,
sports world. He was a DJ, so he had this
interesting sensibility that he was able to touch with and
you know, I think for a lot of people, myself included,
we were just so shocked when he passed. So Virgil
and also Andre Herrel sadly passed during the writing of
(27:20):
this book, so I couldn't get to speak to them.
But I think for a lot of people, we just
that's like a hole that hasn't been filled, just this
idea of this like nice, good guy who had so
many interesting, cool friends and vision. And when he had
that job at Louis Vuitton, it really felt like someone
from hip hop made it like it wasn't just wearing Louis.
You have a job there. You know, you're actually sitting
(27:42):
at those tables with those decision makers. So he'll absolutely
be messed.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
What what male artists do you feel revolutionized hip hop
as far as fashion is concerned. Right, you talk about
some of the things, and we still remember something and
we had.
Speaker 4 (27:54):
To go back to the men.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
No.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
No, The reason I say is because we see it
with Little Kim, we see it with Foxy Brown, we
see it with See Besides, I'll be honest with you,
besides Biggie and that koogie sweater, I can't think of
something that people connected to and held on to it.
I mean, you could say Jay Z with the Yankee
fittings in Timberlands, but what else was was that big
for the culture if you could think.
Speaker 4 (28:15):
I mean, if we're talking about highashion, we got to
go back to the beginning and go to who was
wearing Dapper Dan? Who can ever forget Eric b and
rock him and those like Dapper Dan Jackets. I think
later on, someone like Puffy was so instrumental where he
could do anything because he came from that Andre Heral
lineage of ghetto fabulis. He was the guy making Mary J.
Blige where like the baseball shirt and the cap and
(28:38):
the knee pads and that whole thing jo Toosy and
then of course that goes to Biggie, right. I don't
think without Puff Biggie would look the way that he looked.
I think Puff as he said, and I think there's
a great quote in the book I want to say
from one of the track masters where Puff is like, no,
my man is sexy, and they're like really, He's like no, no,
That's why we need to one more chance, because he's
sexy and with men like him, and he needs to
(29:01):
look sexy. So someone like puff. Absolutely, of course, Kanye,
Kanye forget this man continues to revolutionize fashion. When I
go out, I see so many little Kanye clones to
this day, right, like you just look like you walked
out out of Calabasas Farrell from the Streetwear who popularizing
(29:22):
Babe to then launching BBC, and he worked with people
like Lagerfell, Mark Jacobs early before Louis Baton. One fun
story because you know there's a big conversation hip hop
who made bait popular. Soldier boy thinks it's him. Then
there's you know, little Wayne said it was him. This
launched a whole the clips mister me too, right, that
was a whole thing. I have a great picture of
(29:44):
Biggie wearing it in ninety seven, really before he wearing Babe.
But there's an incredible story the fact that he was
doing a photo shooting that the photographer draped it over
him because he knew Nego and was like, hey, want
to take this picture from my friend. And according to
the story, Biggie wanted some Babe because they couldn't get
in his eyes. He had to like custom order it.
(30:04):
But he passed right after. Oh wow, Yeah, so there's
that great photo. So that's one of my favorite pictures.
And there's an awesome picture of Tupac in Milan. So
right before he passed, he was invited by Versace to
walk in the Runway show in Milan. It was Tupac
Kadata Jones, who was his then girlfriend, and his bodyguards
and they walked the show and then he performed I
(30:26):
Believe California Love.
Speaker 5 (30:28):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (30:28):
Yeah, And apparently Gianni was a big fan of his
and Johnny VERSACEI was smart about collecting celebrities and really
having whether it be Madonna or Mike Tyson. He just
liked celebrities and he was that designer that now we
see celebs front row. It wasn't like that before. It
was fashion editors, fashion buyers, like people who need to
(30:49):
be in the industry. But Jihnny just saw the vision
and he just fell in love with Pac. And yeah,
so that right before he passed.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Was wow, huge.
Speaker 4 (30:58):
And it's funny because he is a recurring character through
this book and it goes back to what we said before.
I really think, of course incredibly handsome, was able to
wear clothing, but also his music and his perspective. He
was the revolutionary. He was the icon who wouldn't want
their clothes on Pok, so it makes sense. Another great
(31:21):
story is how Carl can I met Pac. I don't
know if you guys remember that iconic Carl can I add.
It's pos sitting on a basketball rim and Carl told
me is like, yeah, I really want to work with Poc.
I'm in the hotel trying to ask him to work
with me, and he's like, Okay, yeah, I'm gonna do
it all right, Well, how much do you charge? Pok's
like nothing, you're black. I would never charge my people anything,
(31:41):
like how dope? Was he right? He could have worn anything?
But he supports people like Carl Kanai, like April Walker
the same way he supported Versace, and I love that
about him.
Speaker 5 (31:51):
What do you hope fashion goes into the next fIF dy?
Is we know what the last fift years of hip
hop fashion looked like? What about the next fifty?
Speaker 4 (31:58):
I think the next fifty. I would love to see
a rapper brand become an American heritage brand, the way
that we wear Polo and Tommy Hill Figure and Calvin
Klein and those things. Maybe it's Sean John. Maybe it's easy.
Maybe it's easy. I think I think he falls or
is I think he was?
Speaker 2 (32:18):
He was on his way.
Speaker 4 (32:19):
Okay, So here's the question, can you make a comeback?
Speaker 1 (32:21):
No, you don't think Kanye can make a company? I
think I think he can make a comeback.
Speaker 5 (32:24):
Absolutely not if you're trying to trademark youth at a
time like this.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
I will say it is a lot of people that
love him, that don't care about what he said, that
just love Kanye and will always support his cause, even
when they banned his sneakers.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
This the price.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
Who's going to take the risk? Though?
Speaker 4 (32:41):
That's true. So it's funny. I was, you know. Oftentimes
again within the industry, it's mixed. Some people say absolutely not.
Others say he can, but there's gonna be a ceiling,
like he can do some shows, but other shows like
SNL probably isn't having him back. That said, talk to
younger people, talk to gen Z. They love him.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Operation is going to partner with.
Speaker 4 (33:01):
Okay, So this would be an interesting paradigm. What if
he gets like his own VC and just does it himself.
No need a carrying, you don't need an LVMH, you
don't need Adidas. He has enough clout and I think
enough supporters. Still, if he could just get some money,
do it himself, and to me, that's a real model
shift that I don't need you.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
He didn't build someone that already, didn't he have someone
that already that he can make his own sneakers and clothes.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
And something of that.
Speaker 5 (33:26):
But you have to do direct to consumers on a doubt,
I don't want to carry.
Speaker 4 (33:33):
You get all the money or if he can do that,
and actually what can follow through and the orders come
in on time and you don't get two shoes of
different sizes like everything's on the up and up. I
think that'd be a game changer. And who's out now.
I can't see anyone else who has the connections, the
clout and the cachet.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
The cultural cache is the biggest thing.
Speaker 4 (33:53):
I don't know what if he sends you free new Yeasy's,
would you wear them?
Speaker 2 (33:57):
Oh? His sneakers are super comfortable. I haven't stopped wearing them.
Speaker 4 (34:00):
Well there you go, Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
I still wait. Once I bought I got slides at
the house right now.
Speaker 4 (34:04):
See there you go. So I think that would be interesting.
But what I love about this book is it starts
in nineteen seventy three ends in twenty twenty three. But
the culture is living, so it's constantly shaping and changing.
So reading this book, you get this great historical perspective,
but I think it also makes you excited for the future,
and that's something I like too. Oftentimes we you know,
(34:24):
we kind of jokingly talk about everything sucks now and
there's nothing good out now. But I think it's exciting
that the future creatively and esthetically and commercially has a
lot of opportunities.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
But we appreciate you for joining us.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
And I'm sure you go through my childhood stuff, which
was cross colors and nice.
Speaker 4 (34:41):
And does anyone have some old rock Away or Sean John?
Do you guys have like a storage unit or something
I do? Don't you send it to me?
Speaker 2 (34:48):
I do?
Speaker 3 (34:48):
I got them dumb ass big jerseys. I got a
lot of jerseys that's like size.
Speaker 4 (34:51):
Did you ever play lugs? I actually bought a pair
of lugs.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
I've never had lugs.
Speaker 4 (34:55):
I don't know why I blae Plaze magazine. I think
they had to add in it and it wasn Off
Tims right, and I literally bought a pair of lugs.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
I don't think.
Speaker 4 (35:07):
Well, that's the thing too, there's a great story about
initially Timbaland's weren't really messing with hip hop, Timberland, Carhart,
all these sort of work where brands that we you know,
we love, they're comfortable. They're like, no, we don't want
to alienator Cork and I want.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
To say Biggie helped with Dad too, but Tims.
Speaker 4 (35:25):
Yeah, actually one, yeah, yeah, that was a big thing.
Biggie versus Pac who popularized versace if you remember and
hit him up, Park says, I was Versace not you
forget that? Yeah, they always remember that opening bars of
hit him Up. But even the fashion aspect. And that's
a question because in the book I talk about you know,
(35:46):
Haitian Jack, who was close to Paks, Like, no, I
put him on Versace. It wasn't him. Yeah, it was
the drug dealers and right Street, yes, the street guy,
Street entrepreneurs, three entrepreneurs. But what he was, you know,
I believe was for was it juice maybe or above
maybe juice? He was just around Jack and soaking it
(36:07):
in for his character. And Jack's like, but you copied
my style. So that's another big question. Was it Biggie
or Pac? Like when you think of Versace, do you
think big or Pac, I.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
Think pak Yeah, I think when I think of Cougie.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
Why because of that line?
Speaker 1 (36:25):
Yeah, it's all about you copied my style.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
I hadn't heard Masachi until I.
Speaker 4 (36:31):
Couldn't pronounce it until I think Kanye said it's verse.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Say, I can't think, you know what, what's the Biggie
Versachi line? I can't even think of one.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
I'm sure, I'm sure there is one. But what thinks?
What makes me think of notorious.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
The socks watch? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (36:51):
But I think of when I'm thinking notorious, when I
see Gravy wearing it. Outside of that, when I see Biggie,
I see Kugie.
Speaker 4 (36:57):
Yeah this this wea is Yeah, but that's not a
Biggie wanted. He wanted to be the versace don too. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
Well, the book is out right now. Appreciate you for joining.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
Revolutionary High Fashion. It's in stores right now. Go pick
it up. Thank you for joining us.
Speaker 4 (37:12):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
Let's do it again, ladies and gentlemen.
Speaker 4 (37:16):
He was thinking about the hard.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
How did it? That's how I wrote it down, just
the case.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
See how you know I'm a hip hop You know
how you got phones deposits soon?
Speaker 1 (37:26):
Yeah, that's how christ Na Murphy.
Speaker 4 (37:29):
Wow, I like.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
It all right. It's the Breakfast Club. Good morning, wake
that ass up.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
In the morning. Breakfast Club
Wake that ass up in the morning.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Breakfast Club.
Speaker 3 (00:05):
Morning everybody, It's DJ n V charlamagnea God. We are
the Breakfast Club. We got a special guest in the building.
Show me a Christiana Murphy, Show me a Christiana Murphy.
I didn't want you to attend.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
I've been practicing that. I've been practicing for the last
five minutes.
Speaker 4 (00:18):
I was going. I wasn't sure who was going to
do it, right, but both of you in Unison.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
I've been practicing last That's why I didn't really say nothing,
because it was on my mind.
Speaker 4 (00:27):
So yeah, yeah, he was really in thought when I
came in. But I love it. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
You have a book out right now called Fashion Killer.
Speaker 5 (00:33):
And before we get to the book, you know Sonia
is the world renowned hip hop journalist.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Yes, yes, like what else?
Speaker 2 (00:40):
What other hyphenness would you put on that.
Speaker 4 (00:42):
Hip hop journalists on air host? And I've literally known
shar since I was knee hydro grasshopper. I think I
met him when he first moved from South Carolina.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
The fact.
Speaker 4 (00:52):
Yeah, and then we did this show called POV on
MTV seven episodes. If you stayed up till midnight and
watched it, Thank you. It's now what's called classic. In
my mind, it's like the paid in full of like
hip hop shows. But yeah, so since then I've been
able to interview so many artists and Fashion Killa is
my first book. Wow drops ten ten, so order it everywhere.
(01:16):
This is the first anthology about hip hop and high fashion,
and obviously it comes out on Hip Hop fifty.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Why a book about fashion?
Speaker 4 (01:24):
It's so interesting. The genesis was it started as an
article in Double XL and as I was doing the research,
I saw that there are no books about this and
one thing about the lit space, and you know the
shars that a lot of times hip hop stories just
aren't elevated in the same way other genres are rock music,
pop music. Right, it's still sort of seen is either
(01:46):
niche or still kind of underground, to be honest with you.
So to me, knowing hip Hop fifty was coming up,
this is such a great opportunity to write, really that
definitive story, that fifty year retrospective. And I'm one of
those people. If I don't see it in the marketplace,
well I might as well just do it myself, right.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
I was going to ask, you know what do you
break down in the book, because you know when you
go sometimes you go to Vegas and you go to
Planet Hollywood, right, you see all these rock and roll
idols on the wall, and you see their guitar, and
you see their shirt, and you see there whatever, or
you see some pop stars. I don't really see that
that much for hip hop, which is concerned and we
do have a lot of things that is pretty big,
but you know, whether we're talking about uh you know, but.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
That's such of the run dmc adidas.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Imagine like Cameron and Blue or Cameron's pink fur. You know,
things like that that really step outside.
Speaker 4 (02:34):
Of the Smithsonian, right, the Cameron pink fur. But I
think Envy you make such a good point. It is
still this idea. Although hip hop is fifty, it's still
not viewed kind of through that prestige lens. Right. Yeah,
I mean you have the Smithsonian, you have these like
little moments here and there, but this idea that it
should be elevated and really treated with the gravitas that deserves.
(02:55):
I think those are the opportunities. And for me, that's
I just didn't see.
Speaker 5 (02:59):
That's because it's not I don't think hip hop has
looked at through the lens of art, and it should
be everyone.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Salam Remy was.
Speaker 5 (03:05):
Up here and he had these big paintings of like,
you know, some of our favorite hip hop artists. When
you see it as a painting, you're like, oh, you
look at it different on when they do the book
of Whole exhibit in Brooklyn, you're like, oh, like, we're
not looking at it through the lens of art.
Speaker 4 (03:19):
Yeah, And you know, for me, just having a hardcover
book out, you open it and yeah, of course there's
like forty great photos of like Biggie and Cam and
Cardi B and all these people, but there's also history,
their sociology, their's psychology. It's so much more layered than
just a rapper war dope outfit. And I think a
lot of times people see it through that cursory lens,
(03:41):
and it's much more nuanced than that.
Speaker 5 (03:43):
Break down this coverle because I hit you when I
told you this cover is fantastic, phenomenal, like break down
that cover.
Speaker 4 (03:50):
So it's so funny. That cover was a little bit
there were some back and forth, a little arguments with
some people. So basically, fashion Killa is obviously a nod
to the asap rocky song where he named checks like
twenty seven brands. Right, he was saying brands that nobody
had heard of, and I wanted something that really made
it stand out in the marketplace. With the cover. If
you look at again, a lot of hip hop books,
(04:11):
it's like a guy with a big chain, something very
sort of stereotypical or kind of looks cheap. If I'm
going to be honest, and for me, I wanted it
to look lux I want to look sexy. Even if
you don't read one page, it's gonna look good on
your coffee table. It looks great and selfies. So I
wanted this to be a book. It's very much a
nod to McQueen obviously with the skull, but again to
(04:33):
differentiate it, to show that this is something different, it's special,
and almost treat it like a luxury product. Right. I
manags like walking down the street having a really sexy book.
That's kind of an accessory. Right. And it's also a
great conversation starter too.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Do you break down how, especially in hip hop, how
we make somebody these fashion brands cool? How a lot
of times you look at somebody these brands, whether it's Gucci, Now,
I'm not gonna say Gucci wasn't cool, but Gucci became
cool because we started wearing it, whether it's Louis Vatan
or whatever. Maybe do you break that down and some
of the impact that we've had on those brands.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
Absolutely, you know, it's funny. One of the chapters is
called nineteen ninety one and a lot of people don't
realize Carl lager Fell did a whole hip hop themed
runway show back in ninety one, and it was, you know,
big chains and name plates and baseball cap to the side. Now,
of course rappers and hip hop weren't given homage, right,
(05:24):
but the idea that someone like Carl lager Fell for
Chanelle was doing it all the way back then. The
influence has always been there. Now, the thing is the relationship.
I think very much starred as the outsider so hip
hop not being accepted but also not being able to
afford it. You got to think back to someone like
Dapper Dan, He's like, the only people who could afford
my stuff were drug dealers and athletes. Only then when
(05:47):
Ell and Eric b Rock him, people like that Caine,
when they were able to afford it, then they become
the consumer, we go into the nineties, which is my
personal favorite era, where we start to see Sean John
and Rock Aware and all of these rapper led brands, right,
and then now I think we're in an age of collaboration.
So you have Pharrell over at Louis Vuitton. You see
(06:07):
artists like Asap, Rocky or Travis Scott very much being
partners with these brands. But you know, as we saw
with Dapper Dan, I mean his sort of full circle
moment with Gucci happened after they bit his style, right,
and only after Twitter came and really rallied around him
was he able to have this incredible comeback. I would
hope it doesn't take outrage and those kind of scandals
(06:30):
for hip hop to truly have a seat at the table,
whether it be decision making, design or just being represented
in fashion.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
Why do you think it's so difficult for black brands
to succeed and have longevity?
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Right?
Speaker 3 (06:42):
You named a lot of these brands, Sean John, who
I don't even think it is in existing anything they.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
Are working on relaunching. He brought it, he bought it back,
and he had a moment at the med Gala with it.
And from what I've heard behind the scenes, just between us,
is that they are working on some sort of a
cap seal or relaunch.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
So why do you think it's so difficult for black
brands to stay you know, longevity, or for us to
even support them like that. You know, we support everything else,
but not our black brands.
Speaker 4 (07:10):
It's hard. I think when we talk about rapper led brands, first,
a lot of it is tied to the artists. So
when the artist isn't hot, you don't want to wear
their clothes no more, right, and so many of those brands.
I mean, are you wearing Marshall Mathers clothing right now? Maybe?
I mean I'm from Michigan, so maybe we always wear it.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Mathea line.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
You know, there was woo wear. Remember bust A had
a line dmxattle. There was the time everyone had a line.
It was get a record deal, have one hit record
to have a line, right. A few of them, Sean
John Rock aware they kind of elevated where they were
making hundreds of millions of dollars. But I think a
lot of it is you can't tie something to something
as seasonal as an artist trend, because when you're not
(07:57):
the flavor of the moment, and it happens to everyone.
No one wants to wear your clothes. I think the
other part is just for brands. It's really expensive. A
lot of people ask me why don't think then grappers
want to have their own brands? Now do you want
to spend your own money to have you know, focus
on manufacturing and supply and all of these things distribution.
It's a similar to the music business. There's a reason
(08:18):
everyone's still signs to the majors. It's better to spend
someone else's money.
Speaker 5 (08:22):
Does that mean that you put away your ovohity? Have
you put any you know what?
Speaker 4 (08:27):
Shar So this is funny and I was a former
Aubrey's Angels, I can say that amongst the former Aubrey's angels,
that was a day one. I was day one when
it was not cool to be a Drake fan, right,
But he lost me somewhere after views. It's almost like
that friend from high school that we have nothing in
common anymore, and I kind of don't want to hang
(08:48):
out with them, so I'll see you on social media,
but let's never speak again.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Damn right, what do you.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Think it was? Do you think they disconnect it?
Speaker 4 (08:56):
You know, It's funny. I think from day one would
always gravitate me towards Drake was he was vulnerable. That
was his superpower when he stopped trying to act like
Wayne or Jay and he was just this goofy kid
from Toronto. Half white, nice, you know, white Jewish mom.
That's what we loved about him. And in those vulnerable moments,
(09:16):
whether it's brand new or too much like, those are
the records that made me like Drake, and especially growing
up when you're in your mid twenties. He was that
perfect blend of emo and toxic, which is what all
of us were dating and acting at the time. But
now ten plus years later, I just feel like we
grew in separate directions. And when I listened to this
new album and let me know what your thoughts are,
(09:39):
I was like, who is this? Who's Aubrey? And what
I want from him now is a classic album. What
is your magnum opus as a grown man, as a father.
We know you have hits, we know you can get
any single person as a feature. I want that definitive
Drake album. Where's my four four four moment? Where's my
life is good moment? That's what I want. From Aubrey.
(10:00):
But so until then, the Ovio hoodie stays in the drawer.
It's not coming out because I feel like I'm just
a recovering Aubrey's Angel.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
That's fair criticism.
Speaker 5 (10:09):
But you know, even with the four for four, which
I think is one of the most it'll go down
as one of the most important hip hop bobles of
all time that didn't come till.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Jay was like in his mid forty, close to fifty.
Speaker 4 (10:18):
You know, I mean Drake is like thirty seven. Yeah,
as a millennial, I will say that we love where
Peter Pan. We don't want to grow up. But to me,
listening to this album, if you're going to give me
twenty three tracks, you got to say something because to me,
usually a double album is a fail because what do
you have to say for twenty three tracks? Life after
(10:38):
Death speaker Box, Like, there are few of these moments
that made sense when I listened to the album? What
what did I glean? I just felt like I wanted
my time back.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Damn spoken from a Formers Angel.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
But I feel.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
There's like a heart group for us somewhere. Album right
there has to be, But we have given so much
to this You guys don't remember. There was a time
in the music business Drake wasn't cool and I would
have fights with people like charl Magno. He's a person
and he's gonna be big, and you got to appreciate
him and love him. And they're like, nah, he's first
of all from Canada, so what does that mean? The
(11:15):
singing rapping combo, you know, didn't really make sense. Then
they thought he was kind of a goofball, like he
came from true to grassy. But people like me were
literally up. I'll never forget Midnight Valentine's Day two thousand
and nine. So far gone, drops, hitting that Z share pressing,
play tears, Wow, tears, Wow, I remember take Care came out.
(11:38):
I'm like, this man knows my life story. Wow, start
to finish Classic. So I've really invested in him. I've
been to Ovo Fest, I covered it for Rolling Stone,
like I have put in my owl points, and now
it's time to pay.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
I guess that's why I'm just a little confused.
Speaker 4 (11:52):
Because like, you haven't put in your owl points. I
know you haven't.
Speaker 5 (11:56):
I'm grown to appreciate him over the years. I've never
been a real huge fan of his.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
His music.
Speaker 5 (12:00):
But I like the way he moves at certain times.
I guess the only thing that's confusing me now.
Speaker 4 (12:04):
But you like how he moves as like a person or.
Speaker 5 (12:07):
As a person is he's gotten at a certain times,
especially during that whole back to back era, like I thought,
because the way he handled that was perfect.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Oh you accused me and not writing. Okay, I'm gonna
bar you up.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
But what about the whole pusher thing?
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Push it with?
Speaker 4 (12:20):
That's a rough one.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Push it's a different beast.
Speaker 5 (12:23):
Though, Like, don't poke the bear, that is true, that
is true to push it a different beast. Just I
just think this album to me is just like it's Drake.
Like I don't see any difference between.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
So it's mid twenty three songs of mid.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
It just sounds like Drake to me. It's just the
sacond we've been getting.
Speaker 4 (12:38):
No, it isn't like again, I think you got to
go back into the discography and now I'm gonna sound
like I wrote a book about Drake. It's this idea
that what really resonated. I mean, you go to so
Far Gone, the standard track is brand new. It's not
a great song. It's not even singing that well. But
he's talking about dating somebody and feeling inadequate. How many
men would openly say that their mixtape like is anything
(13:02):
I'm doing brand new? And I remember that happened, and
all of us were just collectively sobbing on Tumblr at
the same time. Now I look at him, You're rich,
any girl you want? Okay? And then what right? And
I think right now in his life, had he given me,
let's say, and now I'm going to be an ovo
an R a double album. Maybe one half is Drake,
(13:24):
one half is Aubrey, I'd been okay with that, Like,
who are you at this life stage? You have a kid?
Speaker 2 (13:30):
You want to hit more?
Speaker 4 (13:31):
But yeah, like, I know nothing about this man, Whereas
in the beginning I felt I knew about his mom,
his uncle, his friends, and all of the issues he
was going through. I know nothing about him. He like
hangs out the strip club and it hangs out with
like younger artists. He's his best friend.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
I think Drake gets busy rapping, when he wraps, he
gets busy, hands down, he can go with the best
of them. I think the problem with Drake is when
he first came out, your hardcore hip hop fans were
making fun of him, right, Charlmagne used to used to
make so much fun. Charlamage's going to Princess Boy, and
that was the thing that connected, right. So then he
goes to this thing where I don't think he wanted
to be himself and wanted to prove that he was
(14:07):
a rap up.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
So then he started rapping.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
He started, you know, doing features with everybody to show
you I can outrap people. But then I think he
started losing his call, which was his women, which is yourself.
So now he tries to do a balance of both,
which I think is very difficult for himself, you know
what I mean.
Speaker 4 (14:20):
And here's I want to be very honest. I love Bars, right,
I'm the person who listened to Jay and Mob deep
and big out. Like I hate when they say women
don't like lyrics, like with what's the saying I made
a track for the women. This is a song for
the girls. No, No, everybody can like AllMusic, but to me,
there's an emotional depth that's missing because you can do
(14:40):
it over Bars. Jay has done it, Nas has done it,
but I just need to see more than Okay, I'm
the best, and you know, even just this idea of
who he's collaborating with. He could call anybody. He can
probably call Shade and get her on a track, right,
Like Forty has worked with her on stuff you're working
with yet Chief Keith like, it just feels like he's
(15:02):
pandering to gen Z, right, And I don't You don't
have to you make hits. People come to you. Give
me something different like what Kendrick did. Right. Kendrick's like,
I'm not going to give you a single laden album,
but I'm gonna let you have such a look into
my life that's so intimate, Like I feel I know him,
his family, what he's going through. I need that moment
(15:23):
from Drake and I think he could give a to us.
Speaker 5 (15:24):
I agree with you, and I think Kendrick's album is
also going to go down as one of the most
important hip hop albums of all time. But when the
album came out, people was like, Oh, that's too much
for me.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
You know, folks are these emotionally stunted people, you know,
I think that's just Charle Man and his friends.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
This he has too much for me. It's a little
too deep. I'm like, I loved it for the way
I'm at in my life right now.
Speaker 5 (15:44):
I loved it him talking about therapy, doing the work
on himself, you know, being faith with his wife like this.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Dealing with his trauma. I loved it. I was like,
this is if hip hop is going in this direction,
I'm all for it.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
And think about our most iconic artists. Look at someone
like Tupac, very complicated, controversial, but those moments he showed
who he was, his vulnerability, that's what resonates. It's not
just hit records. I mean a lot of people have
hit records, but like, I'll never forget even you know,
like when Biggie would rap about his mom. Those were
the moments that just stuck with me, Like, you're an
(16:15):
incredible rapper, great storyteller, but who are you? And I'm
also a journalist, right so for me, even when I
talk to artists, there's got to be more than just
all right, So talking about the album vibes, Oh okay,
I interview so many young artists. Now, so why do
you want to be a rapper? I'm a brand, I'm
a rock star. Oh so you don't even want to
(16:36):
be here? Why am I here? You know? And I
think that's just indicative of where we are sort of
in culture where a lot of artists they're not thinking
about again as the artistry you're creating art and putting
into this world. And maybe again, I have high standards
for Drake because you know, I put in my ovo points.
But to me, as the biggest rapper out now, what
(16:57):
he gave us, I think is going to be ultimately forgettable.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
I don't know how you say that for Biggie, right,
because Biggie is my favorite rap Biggie j my favorite rep.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
I love Biggie right.
Speaker 4 (17:04):
What order?
Speaker 3 (17:06):
That's a tough one. I think probably it would almost
be a tide. I'm gonna tell you why. I think
a lot of people forget how nice Biggie is right
until they go back and to listen to that album
again and stuff that he said back then. However long
twenty years Agody to die or life.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
After life after death?
Speaker 3 (17:22):
Right, But in that Biggie's music he does talk about
his mom at times, but you don't.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Really get to get into Biggie's life as much.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
He does a lot of stuff that no, I mean
when he does the story to tell and he does
the what do you do.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
When your man is untrue?
Speaker 5 (17:36):
Like when you see regular I was ready to Die
on Suicidal Thoughts.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Suicidal but that was the first album. That was the
first album. You're talking the second named off the second album.
Speaker 4 (17:49):
Limits on the second album.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
But ready to Die and the other.
Speaker 4 (17:52):
One first, just imagine your first I'm called ready to Die.
Just think about like that mindset, right, and the fact
this young man and this album ends called suicide thoughts.
He spoiler alert to anyoneho hasn't heard the album. He
you know, unlives himself and this idea that to show
that that's what resonated with people. I remember DMX, incredible artist,
(18:16):
battle rapper, charisma. What resonates with people rare? Of course,
those are those moments. And I'm not saying the whole
album has to be emo, right. I mean, I love
a good cry, but I think you can have the balance.
So if a gonehead of balance, take care head of balance,
even I would say nothing was the same. I mean,
when he does too much, I think it's called with SAMFA.
(18:38):
If you haven't seen that live performance, please do. He's
literally talking to his family. He's like, we can't talk
about these things in private, So I'm going to tell
the world this is what's going on. How fame has
changed you, Right, These are the things that I think
fans resonate with.
Speaker 5 (18:51):
You don't think that Drake has enough catalog to where
he can be considered a complex artist, Like he's just complex.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
I think he is. I mean, one thing we also
got to give him. He has had an unprecedented run
absolutely nine to twenty twenty three, and during the paradigm
shift of people buying CDs to streaming, no one else
has been able to work both of those very different mindset.
And one thing I always give him and his team,
they always have their mind and what's the next song,
(19:19):
what's the next sound, what's the next scene, whether that's
UK Drill, whether what's going on in Memphis with like
block Boy, Like they know what's coming up Migos Versace.
I mean, he was on it early, and I always
give him props for that. But I don't know. I
almost feel like, if I'm going to psychoanalyze him, I
feel he's just going through some sort of like a
(19:41):
third life crisis, like figuring out who he is as
a person, as an artist, his legacy, and he's just
kind of grappling with it. To me, that's why as
I listened to it. I'm like, he doesn't know what
to do.
Speaker 5 (19:52):
This is a season for anybody who puts out that
much content. Yeah, you know, he's contently putting out a
new project every year. This this might well be he's
on right now, like he might. I have no doubt
at some point he's going to give us that mature
album everybody's looking for, because we know that's in him,
because he was giving us that early on when we.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Were clowning them, right, you were clowning yeah, when I
was coming.
Speaker 4 (20:13):
I never clowned him.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Yes, So I know it'll come back enough. Drake took, like,
we get back to the book.
Speaker 4 (20:17):
By way, Drake, if you want to buy my books?
And so for about ten minutes, that's great.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
What came first for you to love a fashion and
love a hip hop?
Speaker 4 (20:25):
Oh? Love hip hop? Okay, one hundred percent. But so
I grew up in Kalamazoom, Michigan, which outside of Derek Jeter,
nobody else knows where that's from because that's where he's from.
And you got to remember, we didn't have hip hop radio,
we didn't have you know, concerts coming through like that.
So so much of my relationship was through things like music. Videos,
magazines like Vibe and The Sore and Blaze. So the
(20:48):
music and the visuals really went hand in hand at
a very early age for me.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
When you would when when you started off early on
where your parents into it, because I know a lot
of times when when hip hop started coming out, parents
would like, get this rapid, rap ish out.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
I'll never forget and my mom is here, so hi mom.
That they the first time they saw CD with the
expletive like sticker, it made it gave them pause. But
you know I had straight a's. I wasn't emulating that
in any way. I couldn't even swear at home back then.
I can barely do it now. And they were okay
(21:20):
with it. But if you went to my bedroom, my
bedroom wall was plastered silk, the Shaker, Beanie, Seagull nas Jay.
I mean, it was very strange that I was the
kid who went to Meyer grocery store and bought Blaize
magazine in Kalamazoo. No of those words fit together, but
they all fit together, you know. I think the good thing, though,
is when you come from sort of a not like
(21:42):
an epicenter of hip hop or fashion, you have a
bird's eye view and one thing about this book, I
wanted to be very inclusive. It isn't just New York.
Of course, that's the mecca, you know, one fun store
A lot of people don't know. August eleventh, nineteen seventy three,
the famous Cool Herk House party. We talked about it
with Hip Hop fifty right. The origin story. He was
(22:02):
doing the party for his sister Cindy, who was doing
it to raise money for her back to school wardrobe. Right.
So from day one it was this sort of like
the thread was there, but for me, it was important
to focus on other regions. Have to go to the
West Coast, have to you know, interviewing people like a
Crooked Eye for example, had to go down south Young
Thug Andre three thousand. How they push these gender boundaries,
(22:27):
sexuality boundaries with their fashion as well as overseas. We
can't talk about streetwear without Nego and Japan and all
of those things, and showing this is really a global story.
That was really important that it isn't just New York centric,
and through sort of a male lens, focusing on the women,
especially the unsung heroes, not just the artists, but designers, stylist, editors.
(22:51):
With that April Walker. I mean, just a seminal figure
in streetwear. She came up around the same time as
Carl Kanai cross colors. She was dressing Biggie Tupac like
all of these people, very early. But you know, for
a variety of reasons. I think one thing just being
her gender. She doesn't get those accolodes and those flowers.
(23:12):
You know, similarly of people like Misa Hilton, Groovy MoU
and Ambrose. Yeah. Absolutely, even people like kimoral Ley Simmons.
People forget. I mean, she was running Baby Fat. That
was a streetwear brand. We may not talk about it
like we talk about Supreme and Stucy and those things.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Even how you were shoting out all the women, he
tried to slip a guy in.
Speaker 4 (23:31):
I heard it, and I didn't want to say anything.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Shout outs to Groovy Lou, she said, Biggie, I know,
Groovy Loud.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
She was shouting out the women.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
She was shouting out all women.
Speaker 4 (23:44):
He like back Door, she said.
Speaker 3 (23:47):
K she named another black brand, Yes she did. And
I say, women, guys, do.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
We need couples therapy?
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (23:54):
All right, yes, I can play some drake and we
can light again.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
What about a little Kim because you broke down her.
Yea such a fashion.
Speaker 4 (24:02):
I I mean little Kim from day one? Who can
forget that famous poster of hardcore. I don't know if
you guys remember, but I think a lot of boys
became men.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
That you and they saw that that was on the wall.
Speaker 4 (24:14):
It's actually currently on his.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Wallcore the story.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
I got a homeboy who was high off hash.
Speaker 4 (24:22):
And he said this in South Carolina.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Yes, And he said that Little.
Speaker 5 (24:25):
Kim climbed off out of that post and left.
Speaker 4 (24:30):
This isn't a magic eye. What was he trying to see?
Speaker 2 (24:33):
Like the he swears by that.
Speaker 4 (24:36):
That's kind of the greatest hash ever we found out
who dealer was. Jesus, the best hash.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
South Carolina is what it was.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
But why do you think she's such a fashion?
Speaker 4 (24:47):
But yeah, so Little Kim very early on, she was
very fearless. And this was a woman who embraced her sexuality,
her body at a time that it still wasn't acceptable.
I mean, if I was looking a lot of archival footage,
she's sitting here in day ti TV, grown men and
women wagging their finger and you're the downfall of America.
But she stayed true to herself, and early on she
(25:08):
worked with people like Dona Tella Versacei and Mark Jacobs.
She became amused to them because in fashion, what's more
exciting than a gorgeous woman who sits very proudly in
her skin. But Kim, like a lot of artists, specially
female artists, they never got their flowers. If you remember,
Carti b was the first female rapper on the cover
of American Vogue. Wasn't Kim, wasn't Fox, wasn't Missy Elliott,
(25:32):
wasn't Eve all great contenders, by the way. So now
a lot of people in the fashion world are talking
about maybe she should get like a Lifetime Achievement award
or something, because not only did she birth a generation
of female artists, but so many designers have taken just
her elements, from the wig, the makeup, the diy creations
that she wore. She definitely represents somebody who was fearless.
Speaker 5 (25:55):
What was it about Virgil that made hip hop artists
currently celebrate him the way that they do, You know,
you don't really see that with designers like why Rogier.
Speaker 4 (26:05):
Well, Virgil came from hip hop, and there's a great
picture in my book of Virgil Kanye, Fwnsworth, Bentley and
a few other guys at Paris Fashion with.
Speaker 5 (26:13):
I remember that, yeah, that they used to.
Speaker 4 (26:16):
Kill that picture. But looking now, they all came dressed
and they were peacocking. They were looking for the camera
because and I interviewed Fwonnsworth for the book and he's like,
we want to show we arrived. This was important that
we are here as young black stylish men in Paris
and you will take our photo. So Virgil came up
with Kanye, was very close to him as a creative director.
(26:38):
They were both interns together at Fendy. Now, look, I
interned at bad Boy, and I'm pretty sure that they
got to do more fun intern things at Fendy, Kanye
and Virgil. But I love the fact that they wanted
to earn their stripes, like no, no, no, we need
to go to the source, and we don't want to
just be the cool guys jumping in. We want to
be respected. One thing Virgil I think did very well
(26:58):
was he's a great dot connector. He will take someone
from hip hop, someone from art, someone from this, you know,
sports world. He was a DJ, so he had this
interesting sensibility that he was able to touch with and
you know, I think for a lot of people, myself included,
we were just so shocked when he passed. So Virgil
and also Andre Herrel sadly passed during the writing of
(27:20):
this book, so I couldn't get to speak to them.
But I think for a lot of people, we just
that's like a hole that hasn't been filled, just this
idea of this like nice, good guy who had so
many interesting, cool friends and vision. And when he had
that job at Louis Vuitton, it really felt like someone
from hip hop made it like it wasn't just wearing Louis.
You have a job there. You know, you're actually sitting
(27:42):
at those tables with those decision makers. So he'll absolutely
be messed.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
What what male artists do you feel revolutionized hip hop
as far as fashion is concerned. Right, you talk about
some of the things, and we still remember something and
we had.
Speaker 4 (27:54):
To go back to the men.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
No.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
No, The reason I say is because we see it
with Little Kim, we see it with Foxy Brown, we
see it with See Besides, I'll be honest with you,
besides Biggie and that koogie sweater, I can't think of
something that people connected to and held on to it.
I mean, you could say Jay Z with the Yankee
fittings in Timberlands, but what else was was that big
for the culture if you could think.
Speaker 4 (28:15):
I mean, if we're talking about highashion, we got to
go back to the beginning and go to who was
wearing Dapper Dan? Who can ever forget Eric b and
rock him and those like Dapper Dan Jackets. I think
later on, someone like Puffy was so instrumental where he
could do anything because he came from that Andre Heral
lineage of ghetto fabulis. He was the guy making Mary J.
Blige where like the baseball shirt and the cap and
(28:38):
the knee pads and that whole thing jo Toosy and
then of course that goes to Biggie, right. I don't
think without Puff Biggie would look the way that he looked.
I think Puff as he said, and I think there's
a great quote in the book I want to say
from one of the track masters where Puff is like, no,
my man is sexy, and they're like really, He's like no, no,
That's why we need to one more chance, because he's
sexy and with men like him, and he needs to
(29:01):
look sexy. So someone like puff. Absolutely, of course, Kanye,
Kanye forget this man continues to revolutionize fashion. When I
go out, I see so many little Kanye clones to
this day, right, like you just look like you walked
out out of Calabasas Farrell from the Streetwear who popularizing
(29:22):
Babe to then launching BBC, and he worked with people
like Lagerfell, Mark Jacobs early before Louis Baton. One fun
story because you know there's a big conversation hip hop
who made bait popular. Soldier boy thinks it's him. Then
there's you know, little Wayne said it was him. This
launched a whole the clips mister me too, right, that
was a whole thing. I have a great picture of
(29:44):
Biggie wearing it in ninety seven, really before he wearing Babe.
But there's an incredible story the fact that he was
doing a photo shooting that the photographer draped it over
him because he knew Nego and was like, hey, want
to take this picture from my friend. And according to
the story, Biggie wanted some Babe because they couldn't get
in his eyes. He had to like custom order it.
(30:04):
But he passed right after. Oh wow, Yeah, so there's
that great photo. So that's one of my favorite pictures.
And there's an awesome picture of Tupac in Milan. So
right before he passed, he was invited by Versace to
walk in the Runway show in Milan. It was Tupac
Kadata Jones, who was his then girlfriend, and his bodyguards
and they walked the show and then he performed I
(30:26):
Believe California Love.
Speaker 5 (30:28):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (30:28):
Yeah, And apparently Gianni was a big fan of his
and Johnny VERSACEI was smart about collecting celebrities and really
having whether it be Madonna or Mike Tyson. He just
liked celebrities and he was that designer that now we
see celebs front row. It wasn't like that before. It
was fashion editors, fashion buyers, like people who need to
(30:49):
be in the industry. But Jihnny just saw the vision
and he just fell in love with Pac. And yeah,
so that right before he passed.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Was wow, huge.
Speaker 4 (30:58):
And it's funny because he is a recurring character through
this book and it goes back to what we said before.
I really think, of course incredibly handsome, was able to
wear clothing, but also his music and his perspective. He
was the revolutionary. He was the icon who wouldn't want
their clothes on Pok, so it makes sense. Another great
(31:21):
story is how Carl can I met Pac. I don't
know if you guys remember that iconic Carl can I add.
It's pos sitting on a basketball rim and Carl told
me is like, yeah, I really want to work with Poc.
I'm in the hotel trying to ask him to work
with me, and he's like, Okay, yeah, I'm gonna do
it all right, Well, how much do you charge? Pok's
like nothing, you're black. I would never charge my people anything,
(31:41):
like how dope? Was he right? He could have worn anything?
But he supports people like Carl Kanai, like April Walker
the same way he supported Versace, and I love that
about him.
Speaker 5 (31:51):
What do you hope fashion goes into the next fIF dy?
Is we know what the last fift years of hip
hop fashion looked like? What about the next fifty?
Speaker 4 (31:58):
I think the next fifty. I would love to see
a rapper brand become an American heritage brand, the way
that we wear Polo and Tommy Hill Figure and Calvin
Klein and those things. Maybe it's Sean John. Maybe it's easy.
Maybe it's easy. I think I think he falls or
is I think he was?
Speaker 2 (32:18):
He was on his way.
Speaker 4 (32:19):
Okay, So here's the question, can you make a comeback?
Speaker 1 (32:21):
No, you don't think Kanye can make a company? I
think I think he can make a comeback.
Speaker 5 (32:24):
Absolutely not if you're trying to trademark youth at a
time like this.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
I will say it is a lot of people that
love him, that don't care about what he said, that
just love Kanye and will always support his cause, even
when they banned his sneakers.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
This the price.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
Who's going to take the risk? Though?
Speaker 4 (32:41):
That's true. So it's funny. I was, you know. Oftentimes
again within the industry, it's mixed. Some people say absolutely not.
Others say he can, but there's gonna be a ceiling,
like he can do some shows, but other shows like
SNL probably isn't having him back. That said, talk to
younger people, talk to gen Z. They love him.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Operation is going to partner with.
Speaker 4 (33:01):
Okay, So this would be an interesting paradigm. What if
he gets like his own VC and just does it himself.
No need a carrying, you don't need an LVMH, you
don't need Adidas. He has enough clout and I think
enough supporters. Still, if he could just get some money,
do it himself, and to me, that's a real model
shift that I don't need you.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
He didn't build someone that already, didn't he have someone
that already that he can make his own sneakers and clothes.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
And something of that.
Speaker 5 (33:26):
But you have to do direct to consumers on a doubt,
I don't want to carry.
Speaker 4 (33:33):
You get all the money or if he can do that,
and actually what can follow through and the orders come
in on time and you don't get two shoes of
different sizes like everything's on the up and up. I
think that'd be a game changer. And who's out now.
I can't see anyone else who has the connections, the
clout and the cachet.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
The cultural cache is the biggest thing.
Speaker 4 (33:53):
I don't know what if he sends you free new Yeasy's,
would you wear them?
Speaker 2 (33:57):
Oh? His sneakers are super comfortable. I haven't stopped wearing them.
Speaker 4 (34:00):
Well there you go, Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
I still wait. Once I bought I got slides at
the house right now.
Speaker 4 (34:04):
See there you go. So I think that would be interesting.
But what I love about this book is it starts
in nineteen seventy three ends in twenty twenty three. But
the culture is living, so it's constantly shaping and changing.
So reading this book, you get this great historical perspective,
but I think it also makes you excited for the future,
and that's something I like too. Oftentimes we you know,
(34:24):
we kind of jokingly talk about everything sucks now and
there's nothing good out now. But I think it's exciting
that the future creatively and esthetically and commercially has a
lot of opportunities.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
But we appreciate you for joining us.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
And I'm sure you go through my childhood stuff, which
was cross colors and nice.
Speaker 4 (34:41):
And does anyone have some old rock Away or Sean John?
Do you guys have like a storage unit or something
I do? Don't you send it to me?
Speaker 2 (34:48):
I do?
Speaker 3 (34:48):
I got them dumb ass big jerseys. I got a
lot of jerseys that's like size.
Speaker 4 (34:51):
Did you ever play lugs? I actually bought a pair
of lugs.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
I've never had lugs.
Speaker 4 (34:55):
I don't know why I blae Plaze magazine. I think
they had to add in it and it wasn Off
Tims right, and I literally bought a pair of lugs.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
I don't think.
Speaker 4 (35:07):
Well, that's the thing too, there's a great story about
initially Timbaland's weren't really messing with hip hop, Timberland, Carhart,
all these sort of work where brands that we you know,
we love, they're comfortable. They're like, no, we don't want
to alienator Cork and I want.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
To say Biggie helped with Dad too, but Tims.
Speaker 4 (35:25):
Yeah, actually one, yeah, yeah, that was a big thing.
Biggie versus Pac who popularized versace if you remember and
hit him up, Park says, I was Versace not you
forget that? Yeah, they always remember that opening bars of
hit him Up. But even the fashion aspect. And that's
a question because in the book I talk about you know,
(35:46):
Haitian Jack, who was close to Paks, Like, no, I
put him on Versace. It wasn't him. Yeah, it was
the drug dealers and right Street, yes, the street guy,
Street entrepreneurs, three entrepreneurs. But what he was, you know,
I believe was for was it juice maybe or above
maybe juice? He was just around Jack and soaking it
(36:07):
in for his character. And Jack's like, but you copied
my style. So that's another big question. Was it Biggie
or Pac? Like when you think of Versace, do you
think big or Pac, I.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
Think pak Yeah, I think when I think of Cougie.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
Why because of that line?
Speaker 1 (36:25):
Yeah, it's all about you copied my style.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
I hadn't heard Masachi until I.
Speaker 4 (36:31):
Couldn't pronounce it until I think Kanye said it's verse.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Say, I can't think, you know what, what's the Biggie
Versachi line? I can't even think of one.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
I'm sure, I'm sure there is one. But what thinks?
What makes me think of notorious.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
The socks watch? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (36:51):
But I think of when I'm thinking notorious, when I
see Gravy wearing it. Outside of that, when I see Biggie,
I see Kugie.
Speaker 4 (36:57):
Yeah this this wea is Yeah, but that's not a
Biggie wanted. He wanted to be the versace don too. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
Well, the book is out right now. Appreciate you for joining.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
Revolutionary High Fashion. It's in stores right now. Go pick
it up. Thank you for joining us.
Speaker 4 (37:12):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
Let's do it again, ladies and gentlemen.
Speaker 4 (37:16):
He was thinking about the hard.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
How did it? That's how I wrote it down, just
the case.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
See how you know I'm a hip hop You know
how you got phones deposits soon?
Speaker 1 (37:26):
Yeah, that's how christ Na Murphy.
Speaker 4 (37:29):
Wow, I like.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
It all right. It's the Breakfast Club. Good morning, wake
that ass up.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
In the morning. Breakfast Club
The Breakfast Club News
Hosts And Creators
Charlamagne Tha God
DJ Envy
Jess Hilarious
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