Masters In Coaching Podcast- Episode LXXXI (2025 California Coaches Conference)

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Fun.

Speaker 2 (00:00):
We have a great relationship with all right, are we
ready to get going?

Speaker 1 (00:10):
All right?

Speaker 2 (00:10):
My name is Tim Kates. I work at A five
seven to LA Sports here in Los Angeles, which there's
an iHeart radio station. We've got hundreds across the country.
We got seven in our cluster here in Los Angeles,
so we're the sports station. We've been to Sports station
for about twenty five years, or the home of the Dodgers,
home of the Clippers, and home of UCLA football and basketball.
I do kind of a lot of things at the

(00:31):
radio station on the air, off the air, and this
is my third or fourth time back here hosting this
panel discussion. It's a lot of fun. We have a
great relationship with Concordia University Irvine and the Coaches Masters
and Coaching program, and it's continuing to grow. It's great
to see more and more people here at this panel
discussion every single year. Great panelist every year that we

(00:51):
have on board, and hopefully you learn a little something,
get some information, kind of clean off their expertise and
their life experiences as administrators, athletic directors and head coaches
as well. All Right, as we get started here again,
it's it's awesome to be back every year and and
to get everybody's experiences and to hear from different people
throughout the country, different sports, different schools, private, public. It's

(01:15):
it's been awesome to hear buddy stories again in their backgrounds.
We've got great panelists today. Excited to talk to all
four of them. He took over two years ago as
the commissioner of the Southern Section. He has Mike West,
so it's here for Mike longtime trainer, which we're going
to get into athletic trainer, coach, principal, and now again

(01:37):
see how you have Southern Section Commissioner Melissa Harley. He
is here and she's one of the greatest coaches in California,
not Southern California, California second all time wins and girls
women's girls basketball at Harvard Westlake High School and at
Alamani the eight one eight that's where I'm from, San
Fernando Valley. So Melissa, thank you for being here. One

(02:01):
Danny athletic director at United Christian Academy and Rancho Kucamonga,
which is a great younger school that is doing big
things out at the IE and excited to hear about
what want is doing out there with the athletic department,
the teams that are continuing to grow and be successful
as well, and excited to hear from Want. So thanks
for being here. One one town, one team, San Clementy

(02:26):
High School. John Hamro thirty years. He is San Clementy
through and through and as a trite from going to
school there, I believe right coach, football coach and longtime
athletic director and the scene that high school blossom into
what it is now and he is one of the
backbones behind that. So John, thank you for being here.

(02:50):
So as you can see, we got kind of a
wide array. A commissioner, we got athletic directors, we got coaches,
men's women, so we're excited to kind of dive into this.
Throughout we'll take some quite from people. So if you
start thinking the things you want to talk about, you
have a question for one of the four panelists. If
there's a topic we get into and it intrigues you
want to hear a little bit more about it. Maybe
we miss talking about that specific thing you want to

(03:12):
get into, just kind of raise your hand. Throughout. We
won't wait towards the end because you'll forget we wanted
something else. We're going to kind of cover a lot
of different things from you know, building a culture in
a program, sustaining a successful program, and I like department
how to do that. We'll start off though, with Mike.
Since you're the commission of the Southern Section now two
years and now you take over for Rob, how has

(03:34):
that been in the two years? You go from being
a principal, you're part of the Southern Section committee, and
now you're the commissioner. How has that been so far?

Speaker 3 (03:41):
I love this job.

Speaker 4 (03:42):
It's been as fantastic as far as I probably need
to get this closer to my mouth here.

Speaker 1 (03:47):
There we go.

Speaker 4 (03:49):
Taking over Rob. Obviously, he's been a great mentor to
me and a friend of me. And the position itself
is fantastic because you're really truly serving kids and athletes
and providing experiences for the way that we are trying
to mentor our coaches in this type of forum that
we support heavily, providing opportunities safety for our athletes to provide,

(04:11):
provide avenues for their participation, and then going into the
playoffs has been just great for me personally working in
the office and going to the championship events and being
a part of that experience has been wonderful. You know,
there's a lot of the nitty gritty stuff that gets
into you know, the the transfers and all those types
of things that's, you know, being a foreign principle, it's

(04:32):
all of the kind of stuff that you're kind of
used to dealing with. But man, working in athletics now,
having been past coach athletic trainer in particular, has just
been wonderful.

Speaker 3 (04:42):
So I had a great experience.

Speaker 4 (04:44):
In a guidance from my friend hoping, I'm trying to
keep the train going down the tracks the same way.

Speaker 2 (04:48):
Yeah, he left you in a good situation the last
two years. Anything that's kind of jumped at you in
the last two years that's surprised you as it kind
of been what you expected in your role.

Speaker 4 (05:00):
Speaking to a lot of lawyers, that's for sure. I'm
sure we'll get One of the things I most proud
of it again, a legacy from Rob was the competitive
equity playoffs system that we've established. Not just that was
in football when he was in place, but then in
the last two years. This last year we established that
for almost all of our team sports and the data
really is showing that we are truly having more competitive

(05:21):
games throughout our playoffs and into our championship events.

Speaker 3 (05:24):
It's really been exciting to.

Speaker 2 (05:26):
See Melissa thirty nine years as a head coach alimating
that Harvard Westlake eight hundred and thirty nine career wins.
It's a Hall of Fame career second all time wins
and girls basketball in the state of California, the championships,
the league titles, the state titles, not coaching anymore. Do
you miss it? No, don't miss it?

Speaker 5 (05:48):
No. You know. One of the things that was important
to me throughout my career was, and I speak to
my players about this all the time, when it stops
being fun, stop doing it. And I did it a
long time. I had a healthy, wonderful career. It wasn't
about the wins. It was about the relationships. As I
spoke to this morning, and it just was to a point,
my kids are raised and gone and it needed to
be about me, and it felt I mean and what

(06:11):
I have said, and I mean this is that I
want to stay tied on my very last year. So
I'm at home and I'm thinking about the John always,
the Peyton mannings, all of these and it's always football
for me because I'm a Texas girl. But you know,
they win these championships when they're older and they try
to come back, and so I'm sitting at home and
I'm thinking, i just want a championship. I think it's
time to go. And so, you know, I've had a
wonderful career in great relationships.

Speaker 2 (06:33):
Awesome John at San Clemente for thirty years athletic director,
and you've seen that school go to where it's at now,
the two hundred and eight nine league championships, twenty nine
CIF championships, eight state championships, fifteen national championships and surfing.
Of course, what you've did done, what you did there
over three plus decades and now recently tired, have you

(06:56):
had a chance to kind of reflect on your career
and what you did at Sankle Many?

Speaker 6 (07:01):
Yes, I have had an opportunity to reflect, but it's a.

Speaker 1 (07:05):
We, not a me, and it's been.

Speaker 6 (07:08):
A group effort and it has been an incredibly rewarding career.

Speaker 1 (07:17):
I've been blessed in so many ways.

Speaker 6 (07:20):
A lot of hard work, a lot of time, a
lot of dedication, but for all the right reasons. And
I'm sure, we'll get into other aspects of it, but yeah,
just been super blessed in everything.

Speaker 2 (07:34):
Thirty years of San Clementy, thirty nine years coaching one.
You're a young guy up here. You've been at United
Christian Academy for I leave over a year now. Talk
a little bit about the school and when you got there,
your kind of vision, and what you've done the last year,
and where you want to take that school's athletic department.

Speaker 1 (07:54):
Well, taken over the program about a year ago.

Speaker 7 (07:56):
It was more of trying to lay a foundation right,
so they had a lot of great things, so I
didn't try to come in and shift a lot of
stuff around. I tried to see what was working and
then what needed to be enhanced. I was able to
company because we all know that change is very hard,
especially when the last ad was there a little bit
longer than me. So it was just mainly just trying

(08:19):
to understand the culture, understand the key ingredients that are
helping move the program and to grow the program, and
then just start to build and enhance.

Speaker 2 (08:27):
You mentioned the C word culture, which we should get
into right away. Then talk about about that culture at
your school and what you want to continue to do
with that culture and how you're building that culture.

Speaker 7 (08:38):
Well, the culture is just to continue to teach, to develop,
to guide, and to inspire. So what we're trying to
do is, I'm what I always share to my coaches
is be able to the game is going to use us, right,
So understanding that where we're at, understanding our personnel, and
then being able to teach according to the level that

(08:58):
we're at so we can gradual the girl with so
is just understanding exactly where we're at to continue to
propel it.

Speaker 2 (09:05):
Nearly four decades coaching Melissa. You build a program, you
have to maintain it, and certainly winning it is a
big part of that. But how were you able to
maintain the culture at Alamy and then take that culture
over to Harvard Westlake, whether you had to build different, scratch,
build on wall, was all there already? Maybe there?

Speaker 5 (09:24):
Well, I think, you know, first at alamand the first
fifteen years was figuring out who I was and how
I was going to run my programs. We talked about
that this morning. So I had a lot of experience
rolling over into Harvard Westlake. One of the things about
Harvard Westlake both programs that I took over. Were good.
They weren't great, but they were good. So I had
a foundation to start. So I was blessed in that respect.
But I think going to Harvard West like Harvard Westlake

(09:44):
in their mission statement is about excellence. Everything they do
is about excellence. So it was already expected as I
walked in in any student athlete that shows up there,
that was already an expectation. But how was I going
to hold that true and be allow them, allow them
to be good students? And so it was a lot
of effort. It was I think, you know, as I
spoke this morning, it was about making sure that everybody
was on board, that my team was on board, and

(10:06):
that included administrators and coaches, and just working at it
continually and believing in what I was doing.

Speaker 2 (10:12):
John at sant Clementy, you guys built a culture down there,
one town, one Team. I'm from the valley eight one eight,
but I know sant Clementy. I hear about San Clementy,
its successful athletic programs across the board, girls and boys.
But you hear about the city. You hear about the town.
I mean the phrase one town, one team, Where did
that come from? First off? And how big is that

(10:34):
for the culture at that program and that school.

Speaker 1 (10:37):
Well, it is big.

Speaker 6 (10:39):
We are one high school in an isolated community with
the ocean Camp Pendleton and nothing to the east, suburban
sprawl to the north. But we really capitalized on that.
I think it was coined by coach Ortiz initially and
it stuck, but we have we realize we are unique.

(11:00):
We have about one hundred and thirty one hundred and
thirty plus coaches on staff, over one hundred live in
San Clementy, so that is a difference maker for us.
There's a lot of great schools in the area, but
we really focused on that aspect of it, which has deep,
deep connections way beyond what we do out on the

(11:22):
field during our practices.

Speaker 1 (11:24):
So that's what makes us unique. And so we've really
zeroed in on a.

Speaker 6 (11:29):
Philosophy, leadership all of that that connects to an other centered,
higher calling beyond ourselves and not just the transaction of
the scoreboard.

Speaker 2 (11:41):
We got folks that are here in person, those are
watching on YouTube listening to the podcast as well, that
are interested in coaching and getting in to that ground
level of coaching. In your years at Sant Clementy, how
important was that for new coaches that came in that
you enforced them this is how we do things, this
is our culture. We're not changing for you. You're going
to adapt to us and you're going to come into

(12:02):
our community.

Speaker 6 (12:03):
Well, the first thing I focused on was retaining coaches,
and so you know, you're every coach, whether they're a
volunteer or whoever, is going to sit down in front
of me and get the exact what my expectations are.
And when you realize, you know, you got to be confident,

(12:26):
You've got to be competent, You've got to be great
technically and tactically. But for you to last, and when
you're a local person connected to our town, you're going
to do a lot of the work work outside of
your practice time and whatever's going on on campus, to
be great because you're so deeply connected to our school

(12:47):
and our community.

Speaker 2 (12:48):
Mike, I don't think people realize, maybe where they're living
in certain pockets of Southern California, how big the Southern
section is. You're talking about nearly six hundred schools that
you have to oversee and kind of monitor, and you're
the government body over and then there's the bigger branch
of the CIF across the state. How do you guys
at the CIF Southern Section maintain control overseas so many

(13:12):
high schools and then within the high schools all the
different athletic departments and different programs that are every school.
It's got to be a daunting task to think about.
And people may think, oh, there's probably fifty one hundred people,
two hundred people that work at the CIF. You guys
got it all controlled, right.

Speaker 4 (13:27):
We got eighteen in the office and we're actually the
biggest office of any section because we're so large.

Speaker 3 (13:33):
It's actually five hundred and sixty schools.

Speaker 4 (13:35):
We do our best to get out and educate all
of our athletic administrators as often as we can. We
have fall workshops that we invite everybody to come to.
And it's not just about coming to the office. We
go to the different areas. We go out to the
on that park, we go to the northern area, we
go do the best we can to get to the
areas to make it as easy as possible for athletic
administrators to come with us so we can provide the

(13:57):
instruction and guidance. It's necessary to summit every year in October,
and we invite all the ethnic administrators principles and so
on and so forth to them as well. And then
it's just the constant communication. When you say control, it's
not a matter of control. It's a matter of education
and collaboration. Our schools are partners with us CIF is
actually our member schools. We're just the office that kind

(14:20):
of is the central.

Speaker 3 (14:20):
Hub, if you will.

Speaker 4 (14:21):
That all the rules and often time's enforcement often comes
from the schools themselves as opposed to just the commissioner
or the assistant commission and so on.

Speaker 3 (14:30):
So that partnership is what makes it work.

Speaker 2 (14:32):
How about the growth of sports outside of football, basketball, baseball,
the ones that get a lot of a lot of publicity, lacrosse,
the growing sports that are seen in Southern California, more
and more kids play boys and girls. Is that something
you guys monitor a lot, the growth of other sports
and the pockets of Southern California.

Speaker 4 (14:52):
Oh yeah, I mean we have each school since the
survey out saying what sports they offered, you know, how
many students they've had. So the monitoring is one thing,
but man, the celebration is another.

Speaker 3 (15:03):
I know.

Speaker 4 (15:04):
Lacrosse has been a championship sport now for a number
of years. The biggest sport.

Speaker 2 (15:08):
Right now is flag football, real slight football.

Speaker 4 (15:10):
We started off with one hundred and twenty schools. We
were at two seventy last year. We're probably going to
be another.

Speaker 3 (15:15):
Fifty or sixty this year. It's just been exploding and
just phenomenal as far as that's going.

Speaker 2 (15:20):
Why why do you think it's grown so big?

Speaker 3 (15:22):
That's funny. We were just talking about that.

Speaker 4 (15:24):
So so many quality athletes.

Speaker 3 (15:27):
That have been doing things since they were.

Speaker 4 (15:29):
Five, in softball, basketball, you name it. They haven't had
an opportunity to play football and they've really wanted to.
And this is one of those sports that you don't
have to play club in order to be successful. So
it was like, oh my gosh, you know, Christmas come early.
I can play a sport where there's not really a
lot of pressure. I can go out and have fun

(15:49):
and I can make the team without having to have
you know, ten years in one given particular skill. And
I think it's really spread in that fashion. Now is
it going to convert that likely? But man, right now it.

Speaker 3 (16:02):
Has just exploded.

Speaker 4 (16:03):
I think just because it's a it's a different, something
different football is all very popular sport, and they're able
to go out there and be successful.

Speaker 3 (16:10):
Without having all those pressures.

Speaker 2 (16:11):
Right now, why do you guys have a girl's football program?

Speaker 1 (16:16):
Our first season?

Speaker 2 (16:18):
What was it like? Starting a program from from scratch?
And what was that first? You're liking?

Speaker 1 (16:24):
It was rough, right, So it was you know, introducing it.
The girls were like, oh, that's a that's still a
boys sport. What now? So I couldn't find a coach
for it. So I ended up being the head coach.

Speaker 7 (16:35):
For the girls for like football, so all summer for
about three months, and during the summer I had two girls,
so we were just in the classroom.

Speaker 1 (16:42):
Do some weight training and do some running conditioning.

Speaker 7 (16:45):
But it was I had to push some games back
right because it was a slow start. And then once
I got on you know, once the kids got on campus,
then you know, I was you know, going through the
hallways lunch time.

Speaker 1 (16:55):
And then we ended up with eleven girls to start
the season. So it's it was rough to.

Speaker 7 (17:00):
Start, but once the girls saw and then they understood
and the best part is they didn't have bad habits.

Speaker 1 (17:06):
So whatever we'll say it.

Speaker 7 (17:07):
If I said this is what the route was, they
were able to do it without a problem, easy to
teach because they wanted to for one, represent the first
football team and for two, you know, the girls to
be the first one to kick it off for the school.

Speaker 2 (17:22):
Any questions, So far as we make our way through
different topics, we're going to get into leadership.

Speaker 1 (17:26):
We're going to get it.

Speaker 2 (17:27):
Into communication and how important that is, especially in today's
world of athletics with parents that are involved maybe too much.
We'll get into that. We're going to get into club
sports a little nil at the high school level, the
transfer portal are some things we're going to get into.
But if anybody's got any questions for the panelists, again,
feel free just to raise your hand if you've got anything. Communication,

(17:50):
let's just go right there, Melissa. Communication and constructive criticism
today is hard for kids, boys and girls to take
because they're all told how great they are. But communication
within an athletic program, a basketball program, how important is
it to have that dialogue with your student athletes and
have that honest communication with them, especially in the time

(18:12):
where everybody thinks are the greatest thing and they're gonna
be playing at the next level, at the professional level,
and sometimes you've got to be humbled, and these kids
need to be told the truth. But that communication, especially nowadays,
how important is that, Well, it's really important.

Speaker 5 (18:24):
I mean it's important in any relationship in life, so
obviously it has its value in basketball. And as I
spoke to this morning, that's one of the things that
I always try to make a very important part of
my program as we move along. You know, we have
meetings weekly. I meet with captain's weekly. We talk about
communication between each other and then being transparent. I'm not

(18:46):
so sure that the kids all think they're the greatest.
It's just everybody around them thinks they're the greatest, and
so they have to try to live up to that.
And I think that's really tough, and I think that's
something we see with a lot of players that we
struggle with in our programs. As I was speaking this
morning about our retreat and how many girls I had
crying in my retreat talking about how much pressure there
was from their parents on how good they needed to

(19:07):
be and how they needed to get a college scholarship,
and so trying to be as transparent as I can
with a preseason meeting with the players, meeting with them
through the season, and then postseason meeting with the players
and with their parents and having it laid out about
what their season look like, what the summer looks like,
and what the future looks like, and then giving them
the chance to ask questions why they're of sound mind,

(19:28):
because once it's after a game, we have that twenty
four hour rule, and then when it's during the season
and max preps is up online, there's really not a
solid time to have a communication where I feel like
it's helpful. So I try to ease that in through
the whole year and hopefully they will start with me.
It doesn't always go that way.

Speaker 2 (19:46):
John, For you so many years you've seen the high
school sports kind of build and build and develop it
into what it is today. For a communication with your coaches,
communication with the parents, who I'm sure are very vocal
in wanting to communicate with you about the coaching, how
did you handle it? How important was it to be
honest and have that open dialogue. Whether you want to
hear from some parents or not.

Speaker 6 (20:09):
Well, I think every parent you know is looking through
the lens of their kid. Both my boys went through
our athletic program, and you know, I thought about playing
time for my oldest and I'm going, who am I
going to complain to myself? So I realized that parents

(20:33):
are obviously biased. Ninety nine percent of it's about playing time,
even though it's cloaked in different ways, but they have
a right to ask those questions. We certainly want to
see them go to the head coach first, and there's
all those kinds of things, but that's not going to
stop the parents that are that are emotionally charged and
when you listen, and certainly probably the best thing that

(20:57):
happened in my career was having my own children and
realizing and having a lot more empathy for where they're
at and just being hurt and being able to connect
but also draw the line and be direct when needed.
So yeah, I just you know, open communication. And I

(21:19):
think one thing that resonated with me. Probably don't want
to hear this, but in this program, there was a
book by Ken Blanchard called Raving Fans, and it's a
more of a customer service mindset. Players play, coaches, coach parents, parents,
that's what coaches like to put that into a box.
But you want to have raving fans of your program.

(21:41):
You don't want to be the well, half we're going
to like you, half aren't. No, ninety eight percent of
them should like you and the two percent that don't.
You can't control that, but you are trying to create that,
and with that is being honest and being accessible, not
crazy accessible. But parents are part of the You need
them in your court and you need their support to

(22:03):
run an effective program.

Speaker 2 (22:04):
Well, listen, I'm going to bring that back to you
about parents and for coaching. As long as you did,
you've seen the game develop, You've seen the money get
bigger at the higher levels. You've seen the scholarships out there,
and so everything gets bigger and people's expectations get bigger,
families expectations as your kids. That you talked about the
girls and the pressure that they're feeling, how did you

(22:26):
deal with parents and how did that change maybe over
the years as the pressure was mounting for some of
these girls and the families were starting to swarm in
more and become more like vultures around their kids.

Speaker 5 (22:37):
Well, I think a lot of it changed because there
became more access to club sports. Back in the day,
there was one girl's high school basketball all star team
during the summer and everybody else just played with their
high school. So the high schools were very important, and
so it was much easier to manage those parents because
they needed to make sure that I was happy coaching
their kids. And then as it started to spread out
in the club became more important, it became more difficult again,

(23:00):
you know, having communication and open lines with their club
coaches and having an understanding of how our schedules were
going to cross over and what was really valuable and
important to my program and what was mandatory versus where
I could give some leeway for these kids to go
and play. And I'll never forget my second year at
Harvard West, like I literally had a parent come up
to me and say, I need you to get my
daughter out of my pocket. And I looked at him

(23:22):
and I said, what does that mean? Well, I need
her to get a college scholarship. I said, well, I
need her to come to practice, and I need her
to work hard, and then maybe we can, you know,
have this work out in the manner you wish it
to work. So I think getting a college scholarship and
now probably looking down that road of NI own money
or however we're going to label that is going to
be something that you guys are going to have to

(23:43):
work with, and I wish I had some recommendations for that,
but I think transparency probably is the most important thing.

Speaker 2 (23:49):
Why do you want to weigh in on that?

Speaker 1 (23:51):
Yeah, I totally agree.

Speaker 7 (23:52):
I mean it's having that honest conversation with the parent,
right we know how they view their own but it's
looking at little Johnny and be like, hey, this is
where little Johnny's at.

Speaker 1 (24:06):
This is the end goal.

Speaker 7 (24:08):
But then be able to walk them through with an
honest conversation. And that's that's where I always start, is
having an honest conversation.

Speaker 2 (24:15):
Any questions or anybody for the panelists as we continue
to move on. All right, Mike, the landscape of high
school sports as we sit here in twenty twenty five
pretty healthy? Is it an overall good state right now?
High school athletics and kind of where you see it
moving in different directions? Certainly there's a lot of questions
about transferring anil out there that's out there, obviously, but

(24:37):
the overall the status of high school athletics is a good,
healthy spot right now.

Speaker 4 (24:41):
First of all, you got to think about the volume
of students we're talking about and the actual volume of
that are nil and those types of things. You know,
we're we try not to focus in on the elite,
if you will, because we've got so many schools and
so many athletes that they're there for the right reasons.

Speaker 3 (24:57):
It's to have fun and program.

Speaker 4 (25:00):
You know, with declining enrollment basically statewide, we're still seeing
an increase in participation that the participation census just came out,
and we've increased in the boys and the girls. The
girls are getting closer to the number of participants as
the boys. The sell haven't caught them. But from that perspective,
it's it's very very healthy.

Speaker 1 (25:17):
You know.

Speaker 4 (25:17):
Again, athletics is a is a huge component of society,
in our in our in our lives and on beyond that.
But I think from that perspective, where as healthy as
we've been, you know, are we having our our concerns
coming in with n I L and what's going to
be coming in with the college ranks and so on
and so forth. Yes, But again think through the average

(25:39):
you know, middle linebacker at a very small.

Speaker 3 (25:42):
School and the experience they're getting. We're hitting the mark
on that uh in.

Speaker 2 (25:48):
The air, and now this is for for all our panelists.
We live in that that fast paced TikTok you know
Instagram real era where where kids want rapid response, they
want rapid gratification. How tough is it to coach to
oversee coaches to oversee programs? Now where kids want those
results now, they want them immediately. They want that reward

(26:08):
and maybe sometimes they don't want to put the work in,
but they want that reward. As you're talking about Melissa
with the dad and the daughter didn't come to practice,
but dad wants the scholarship. While we'll start with you
just how difficult is it or is it challenging? Right
now in this era of instant gratification for these student athletes.

Speaker 1 (26:25):
It is very challenging.

Speaker 7 (26:27):
But it's being able to constantly be able to teach
the process.

Speaker 1 (26:31):
You know that's the end result.

Speaker 7 (26:33):
Now, let me take you through the process, right, and
that's meaning you want to become this great baseball player
a football player and you're seeing the end result. Now,
let me take you through what it took for them
to get there and then just being able to break
it down to where they're at and then just showing them, look, there's.

Speaker 1 (26:50):
A process to everything. You can't start at the end
of a process.

Speaker 7 (26:53):
You have to learn how to start from the beginning
and seeing that all the way through, because now it
could be sustained and anywhere you're in that process and.

Speaker 1 (27:01):
You can see a breakdown.

Speaker 7 (27:03):
But if you understand the process, you know exactly where
you're at in the process to be able to pick
up and continue to move forward.

Speaker 2 (27:09):
Melissa for you and that kind of same strategy and
that same approach. If a parent or kid comes back
and says, that's great, but you know, I want playing
time now, or I'm going to transfer, I want this,
or I'm out of here, that is part of that
instant gratification of you know, I want this, I want that,
or I'm gone. How tough was it for you to
have to deal with that as a coach, And that's

(27:30):
more of a recent problem.

Speaker 5 (27:31):
I don't think, yes, And I would say the problem
is more players being compared to other players by their parents,
and if they're not getting the same recognition and for
various reasons, mostly because they're not as good, then they
feel like they need to go someplace else so that
they can get more recognition. What I tell you is
my biggest problem pivoting is that they're doing their own

(27:53):
scouting report through social media? Though, did you know this
player can do this? And did you know that? I said,
I'm watching film, So how about we listen to what
I'm saying and let's go by that and leave social
media aside. And so that's been a really problem. And
I actually said to one player's the most talented kid
I've ever had in my last couple of years. There
she was constantly coming to me. You could name any kid,
she could tell you where they went to school, male

(28:14):
or female. She could tell me all the information. I said,
wouldn't it be great if people were talking about you
in the way that you're talking about them, because you
have that ability. But you spend more time on your
phone than you do.

Speaker 3 (28:24):
On the floor.

Speaker 5 (28:25):
So I said, if we could just flip the script
a little bit, you would be a lot more.

Speaker 2 (28:28):
Successful, and so would we. How does she take that?

Speaker 5 (28:31):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (28:35):
I can imagine wasn't too happy about it at first,
but well.

Speaker 5 (28:38):
She just didn't look at herself that way. I don't
know about you, guys, but one of the biggest problems
I'm having is self confidence. They just as much as
people are telling them how good they are, they don't
really believe it. They either don't put in the work
or they're afraid to fail because we can't fail. Yes,
we must fail if we're going to get better. And
that's what I keep trying to teach them.

Speaker 2 (28:57):
Is that positive reinforcement constantly, is that the communication that
we talked about earlier, and constantly be communicating with them
as a real voice as opposed to these outside voices
that are telling them how great they are, what they
should be, what they should be doing, where they should
be going. Is that you know what it is?

Speaker 5 (29:12):
A it's a schedule, schedule the right teams, but B
it's film. It's film, because film doesn't lie. So you
could sit and look at their weaknesses and their strengths
and go through them and try to help them through
the process.

Speaker 2 (29:23):
Any questions from an everybody out there for panelists as
we continue to move on, Let's do another raffle for
Dodger tickets, all right, get your raffle tickets out there.

Speaker 1 (29:32):
We have it in there, all right? Well more less
makes this up a little bit?

Speaker 2 (29:38):
Uh five four one four seven, O four seven the
last three digits, oh four seven, We got a winner,
all right, congratulations.

Speaker 5 (29:54):
So you know your plus one is somebody on the panel.

Speaker 2 (29:57):
Right developing a coaching staff. We'll start at the athletic
department kind of view, John and building that that leadership,
that that that coaching staff below you for the different sports.
How much were you hands on with training them once
they got there and developing them into what you wanted

(30:19):
them to be for your athletic department.

Speaker 1 (30:23):
Well, we're looking.

Speaker 6 (30:25):
What I do is I just spell out the expectations
real clear to them, and you know that we are
looking for that transformational coach. You know, we are trying
to be successful. We do keep score and that is important.
But you know people say it's.

Speaker 1 (30:47):
You know, it's I.

Speaker 6 (30:53):
I gotta be careful here on how I present this.
But let's just put it this way. They need to
become other centered. Their ego has to be checked at
the door. We want them to be confident, we want
them to be competent, but when they realize that they
have a purpose beyond themselves, and that is our mission.

(31:18):
The sport whatever you're sitting in front of me, your football, basketball, softball,
whatever it may be, that's just the canvas. We are
looking to change lives and we have the opportunity to
do that with this profession. And when you develop that
sense of purpose, that purpose in your professional life, that's

(31:38):
all you can ask for. If you want to stick
with something and be successful, you got to have a
way to do that, and we believe that that's the
best way to do it. So we've had a lot
of coaches that are there, you know, twenty thirty couple
just retired, but you know, probably half our staff's been
there over fifteen years.

Speaker 2 (32:01):
Melissa, for you coaching as the years went on, how
important was it for you to develop your coaching staff
and have them move on to be head coaches And
what were some of the things maybe that you wanted
to instill in those assistant coaches that were under you
and you know, looking to further their careers as well.

Speaker 1 (32:18):
Well.

Speaker 5 (32:19):
I think I just want to piggyback on what John
just said as far as what's important to me is
the development passion, loving what you do, being dedicated, and
nothing makes me happier than for my coaches to go
on and to fulfill their dream to do whatever that means,
whether it means going to the college level, becoming a
high school coach, it is. It's just like watching your
players because you are mentoring them as well, and so

(32:41):
I love that aspect of it. And it's always important
for me to find the right type. And again, it's
somebody that's ready to serve kids and winning is not
the most important thing, but how you get there. And
that's always something that my assistant coach has come back
to me about is that when they watch me coach
and they come to games and I'm so intense, we're winning,
we have this great program, but they never understood how

(33:01):
much I cared about my kids. And so when they
can take that away, then I feel like I'm.

Speaker 2 (33:06):
Doing a good job. One, you're an athletic director at
a younger school, probably younger coaches maybe that you're hiring on.
What kind of people are you looking for, What kind
of leaders are you looking for? Coaches are you looking for?
When you're out there trying to bring in coaches to
your athletic department in your school, what we're.

Speaker 7 (33:25):
Looking for is to make sure that for when you
have passion, you understand the game. One thing that I
don't I'm not really being at a small school. I'm
not so much impressed too much with the resume, right
because I see where I'm at, where the school is at,
and it's more about that, Hey, can you build? Can

(33:47):
you see pass the exes and those can you see
pass the wins and losses? You know, are you able
to take the time and to develop right, because that's
you know, it's just understand having a coach understand where
United Christian is at is. We're in teaching, We're in developing.
We're finding windows to be able to teach life lessons,
to be able to grow, and then everything else will

(34:10):
start trickling down. So it's very foundational.

Speaker 2 (34:13):
Are you finding it hard to finding young coaches that
will do that? Are they looking for instant I want
to be successful. I want to be at this program.
I want to be here at this point and are
willing to put into work and get to that point
and build themselves as coaches.

Speaker 7 (34:26):
I think they all come with that mentality to be
able to you know, hey, I want to come in
and win because that's what people see and people get
coaches get attracted to, you know, is the wins. But
that's where you know, I try to dive in just
a little bit deeper going through the interviews, it's just Okay,
what am I actually getting, but I paint the picture
so the coach going through the interview process, they can

(34:48):
understand where they're coming. You're not coming to Bosco. You
come into United Christian. You're not going to Ontario. You're
a United Christian. So I try to paint the canvas
and let them know, Okay, look, these are the athletes
that we have, right, so with what we have, how
could you put your game plan into play? And then
once I get because I am receiving a lot of

(35:08):
young coaches, right, the older you know, the older, more
seasoned ones. You know, they're they're not really coming knocking
on the door as much, right, And it's okay. So
now I'm getting the younger coaches who are, for one
might be their first year.

Speaker 1 (35:20):
In coaching or the third year in coaching.

Speaker 7 (35:23):
So now it's my opportunity because you know, off coach,
I've been in their roles. I've been in their position
at the first time and as a season coach. But
now it's just making sure that now I coach the
coach right, So now I'm able to you know, kind
of you know, put the shutters on and be able
to guide them through by able to see the potential
inside it.

Speaker 2 (35:42):
I would think that would be kind of fun to
do it is it'd be challenging, But I think that
if if that's something that as an athletic directory, you know,
you'd probably want to be hands on, get out there
and mold these coaches into what they should be and
see the potential and some of the young coaches out
there and get that out of them.

Speaker 7 (35:59):
And the great thing is sometimes even when i'm you know,
being present, and when I mean present, I mean I'm
not showing up at the practice and saying, hell, you
should do this, you should do that, But I'm able
to kind of stand alongside them.

Speaker 1 (36:11):
That way, they can feel the support, they know the
support is there.

Speaker 7 (36:14):
And not only do they know the support, then every
once in a while, when the time calls for it
or when the window was there, then I'm able to,
you know, be able to teach them and be like, okay,
look we should you know you probably try this, you'll
still get the same result, but let's let's cut it
or carve it a different way. And then also being
able to see myself in them when I first started

(36:35):
coaching and where they're at and being you know, because
I never forget where I came from, right, I never
forget that there was a coach that took a chance
on me when I was green as can be. Right, So,
and I see that with the new coaches coming in
and then making it mandatory for myself to be able
to pay it forward and make sure that I set
them up for the you know, best position they can be.

(36:56):
If this is the goal that they're trying to be
as coaches.

Speaker 2 (36:59):
That's awesome. Thank you, Mike. You were an athletic trainer,
got into being an administration principal. Now that you're the
CIF commissioner for the Southern Section, do you step back
a little bit and think about where you saw this position,
maybe from a different lens when you were the principal
at King High School and now that you're in that role,

(37:19):
is it different than what you thought it would be.
Did you have some ideas in place when thinking about
taking over this role? Okay, this is what I'd like
to do and maybe short vision goals, maybe long term
goals as commissioner of the CIO Southern Section.

Speaker 4 (37:31):
So fortunately, while I was at King, I was actually
a part of the executive committee, so I had some
unique insight as far as there if you asked me
when I was an athletic director, when I when I
opened shoot A Hills in two thousand, Yeah, a little
bit different viewpoint, you know, you know there there was
a you know, it was funny because I think I
became the administrator there, the activistiactor. Almost the same time

(37:55):
Rob became his first jet gig as as an assistant commissioner.

Speaker 3 (37:59):
And it was of those.

Speaker 4 (38:00):
Things where were always calling. You always have one person
in the office that you call. It's just you pick
one and then that's the one that you're calling. So
in my time as a principal, no, I think I
had a really good fundamental understanding of it. Obviously, you
get into a job and things can change a little bit,
but now as an athletic administrator, you had a different
It was I wouldn't say it was combative, but it

(38:21):
was just like, Okay, I'm not just sure you're learning
the rules as an anthetic treachery, you're wondering why what's
going on?

Speaker 3 (38:26):
Why is this the way it is? And so on
and so forth.

Speaker 4 (38:28):
So it's more of a lack of understanding for those
that are young coaches or particularly new administrators trying.

Speaker 3 (38:33):
To figure out, you know, why is this the case?
And it takes a little.

Speaker 4 (38:37):
Seasoning and questions to be asked not just of the office,
but of your colleagues as far as okay, how'd this
come about?

Speaker 3 (38:43):
Why are we doing this? Oh? Okay?

Speaker 4 (38:45):
So that's that's a fundamental piece that just takes a
little time off.

Speaker 2 (38:48):
I'm gonna ask a selfis question because I got a
daughter who's in college and wants to be an athletic trainer,
and when she graduates, she's going to go get her
master's in athletic training. And I know that's your background, Yeah,
and how you got into education and working with student
athletes athletic trainers at the high school level, it's certainly
different between private and public. The opportunities and maybe how

(39:09):
many athletic tractors athletic trainers you have, But where do
you see that at the high school level right now?
With sports and that growing possibility for athletic trainers in
this field.

Speaker 3 (39:21):
Is going to continue to grow.

Speaker 4 (39:22):
I mean it's going to be unrealistic that every single
high school has an athletic trainer. But compared to when
I started, way more the opportunities and their continuing to
grow and the salaries are starting to become where they
should be. Back a number of years ago, you would
have somebody that's working on their athletic training professional certificate

(39:43):
and they would hire themselves out to the local high
schools and it would be just per dim and so
on and so forth. Few of those jobs are out
there now. Now they're actually being compared to other clinical
individuals that are on the site that they're being paid
hopefully as close to a beginning teacher salary because of
the education. Is very commiserate with that. But one thing

(40:05):
is Barslow's Athletic Trainings is concerned. They are coming out
with a.

Speaker 3 (40:09):
Wealth of knowledge, an absolute wealth of knowledge.

Speaker 4 (40:12):
Sometimes the experience, depending on how quickly they come out
of school, is a little bit less.

Speaker 3 (40:15):
But man, you got to listen to them. You know,
the goal is.

Speaker 4 (40:20):
For the for you, for you as coaches to have
a working, good, working relationship.

Speaker 3 (40:23):
With them and build the trust because if the trust.

Speaker 4 (40:26):
Is mutual, the relationship that you'll have and the way
that you're going to manage your kids changes.

Speaker 3 (40:33):
You know, there's.

Speaker 4 (40:34):
Sometimes some places where you know, oh that's the black hole.

Speaker 3 (40:37):
They go into that training where they don't come out.

Speaker 4 (40:40):
And you know, I always talk to my people that
I work with in ethnic training profession that make sure
that you're not just you know, coddling these kids that
if they're hurt, they can still play.

Speaker 3 (40:49):
If they're injured, that's where you're pulling them out.

Speaker 4 (40:50):
But you have to as a coach trust that that
athletic trainer is going to have that same philosophy as
we do. It's an absolutely wonderful relationship that that's that
takes some work.

Speaker 3 (40:59):
To be able to work.

Speaker 2 (41:00):
John, this is for you, longtime athletic directors. You hired
a lot of coaches and then this was brought up
to me, is that this was the question that a
lot of our people here listening in online and listening
on the podcast had and was a constant question over
and over is what would you suggest to prepare for
and to secure a head coaching position. What are some

(41:21):
of the things that young aspiring coaches could do to
try to secure a job if you were hiring, well.

Speaker 6 (41:28):
First I got to get experience, so assisting would be
the first line. If you're looking to get into a
public school, having a credential certainly helps as well.

Speaker 1 (41:42):
But walk Ons are.

Speaker 6 (41:43):
Becoming more and more frequent and having that experience because
not at every school. For us, you know, there's a
high level of expectation for success and not having work
through some of the the pitfalls and the and the
learning curve that comes with coaching and then being thrown

(42:06):
right in at the varsity level is a tough sell.
So I would say, you know, align yourself with somebody
you respect, maybe even volunteering at first, and get your
experience and then start to get that resume out and start,
you know, building connections, and a head coach that is

(42:31):
worth his salt or her salt will help you get
that job because that's part of one of the pride
things you take as a as a head coach is
that your assistants do seek opportunities even though you don't
want to lose them. There's a that's a good thing.

(42:52):
So that's what I would do.

Speaker 2 (42:54):
This is kind of for all our panelists, but you know, Moss,
you talked about the student athletes now and the pressure
on them. The kind of the framework on and off
the court for student athletes physically, emotionally in the classroom
is pretty demanding right now. As as leaders, as athletic
directors as coaches, how do you approach that, especially in

(43:14):
an era like this where there's so much pressure on
these kids. Why, I guess we'll start with you about
how you deal with these student athletes and you know,
making sure that they're getting it done in all aspects
of life, and continue on that track, on a successful track.

Speaker 7 (43:27):
Just really asking and really wanting to know how are
you doing? You know, And it's not one of those
hallway conversations where it's just oh, how you doing, but
you never really stop to listen and really mean, how
are you doing?

Speaker 1 (43:41):
Right? So it's just being able to.

Speaker 7 (43:43):
Have a full understanding of the athletes talking to them,
you know, how's everything going, Is there anything that you need?
Just constantly being accessible to them so they know that
you're there, create opportunities for them to be able to
walk and spark conversation, you know, just understanding not look

(44:03):
at them in the athletic room, right, look at them
as human beings that are actually experiencing life. And then
that's where the coach hat never comes off, because now
I'm able to kind of see, you know, through the
facade of athletics and then be able to dive into
the manner of the woman to be able.

Speaker 1 (44:21):
To assist them, so to me is just truly.

Speaker 7 (44:26):
Karen and wanting to know that everything is all right
and if it's not being that help or that.

Speaker 2 (44:32):
Bridge, Melissa, for you, coaching ex's and os on the
court is one thing, and you sort of touched about
it with your retreats and the girls opening up. How
important is that emotional connection with your student athletes as
a head coach, Well.

Speaker 5 (44:45):
It's really important. I really judge a lot of what
I do on body language. So when they're walking around
campus or they're walking into the gym, I check body
language because they'll tell you everything's fine, but if you
watch body language, it's not. And I also have a
bear very strong relationship with my captains because the kids
on your team will tell them things and talk to
them and feel like that's a safe space. And it

(45:07):
is a safe space. But when it's necessary, they'll come
and share stories with me, and I'll be able to
find out things that are going on and possibly be
able to address them or dive into what's going on
and know that as I said this morning, again, quantity
is more important than equality, is more important than quantity.
So I had to learn that through my career and
then being at Harvard West like I certainly had to learn,
you know, finding out when the big test days are

(45:29):
and trying to help these kids so that the pressure
is off them just a little bit. So body language
is really important to me, Mike.

Speaker 2 (45:35):
I want to go back to you, and I guess
a big topic is transfers in high school athletics, and
it has been that case for many years now, whether
it's going from private to public, public to private, going
from one school it's a crosstown to another school, to
going to a school that's completely the other side of
the county. Where is the CIO of Southern Section.

Speaker 3 (45:55):
On right now?

Speaker 2 (45:56):
Maybe trying to get a handle on it. How much
of it can you really control? The transferring happened, as
you mentioned, you got eighteen members of your working staff
there and you've got five hundred and sixty high schools
that you have to oversee as the governing body. How
hard is it to really oversee all that?

Speaker 4 (46:13):
Well, again, it depends on the type of transfer. And
first of all, again we have over ninety percent of
our kids don't transfer it, you know, so.

Speaker 2 (46:19):
We think that's important. People need to know that because
we hear about the star guys transfer, the star girls
transfer to them. They're football for this, or basketball or basket.
It doesn't happen all the time.

Speaker 4 (46:31):
I think in the actual numbers, I believe is somewhere
in the neighborhood of ninety.

Speaker 3 (46:34):
Three percent don't transfer.

Speaker 4 (46:37):
You got another six percent that or five percent that
are one time transfers. It's those multiple transfers that start
to get into play, and it's the it's the the
means by which they're doing it. And the frustrating part
for us is that you know, and again, families have
every right to do what they want for their jib
I don't. I don't regredge that at all. You know,
if it's things aren't working necessarily a particular arena and

(46:59):
there's a better option for you, go for it.

Speaker 3 (47:01):
Just do it within the rules, and do it within
what we're expecting as far as that's concerned. If you
need to move, that's fine.

Speaker 4 (47:07):
If you don't need to move, don't.

Speaker 1 (47:09):
Say that you've moved.

Speaker 4 (47:10):
Provide documentation, and just so that you can get an
extra few weeks of playing time for the students. That's
more of the frustrating piece is that you know, if
as long as everybody's going through and following the guidelines,
you know, the transfers are what they are.

Speaker 3 (47:23):
It's not about we have rules to try to.

Speaker 4 (47:26):
You know, kind of incentivize them staying obviously at their
given school. But ultimately, you know, if you have to go,
you go, but just don't don't go outside the rules
to make what make things happen that shouldn't be happening.

Speaker 2 (47:38):
It's interesting because you know, I've got girls that are
teenagers and have friends that play sports that the air boys,
and you know, the kids are transferred around, and had
a parent ask me, well, how come to see if
doesn't do anything about this, how come they don't step
in and stop this kid from going to that school.
You can't stop you can't control it. Everybody out there.
You can try your best if but how do you

(47:59):
approach that is it's it's just a monster of an
issue right now that you have to I don't know
if you can even tackle again.

Speaker 4 (48:06):
You know, if if a kid it's going to win
school distant rolls and roles in this other school, they
have a right to participate in that school regardless.

Speaker 3 (48:14):
Of the reason why they made the transfer. All right,
those are those are those are separate issues. So it's
a matter of.

Speaker 4 (48:18):
Okay, so what is the rationale for that? What are
the circumstances? And there's certain rules that you know, if
they didn't happen to play at.

Speaker 2 (48:25):
The previous school, they can be immediately elgible.

Speaker 4 (48:27):
They did play in certain other sports, there might be
a restriction on whether they can play just JV level
or they might have to sit out and play varsity.
So again there's there's different levels right now, and again
the whole transfer process is being discussed with potential modifications
down there right at the state level. But for right now,
those were our guidelines. And again, if you follow the guidelines,

(48:48):
that's all I'm asking. Just just make sure that we
follow the rules and everybody is on point with that,
and it is what it is. I mean again, when
it comes to, you know, the transfer portal in the
university level, we don't. We don't have a transfer port
We deal with transfers and again, the families are going
to do what they need to do for their kids.

Speaker 2 (49:07):
Question for you, John, and that the last few years
we've seen the rise of social media and as an
athletic director. Is that something that you would talk to
your coaches about for your student athletes? Is that something
you address before the season? How would you address that?
Because of what the kids first tendency is to post
how great they are, post something they had, what they
did in their accomplishments, which is fine, But did you

(49:30):
address that with your coaches in your department.

Speaker 6 (49:33):
At our preseason meeting? Social media is a line item
and I generally am channeling it through what I expect
of my coaches. So social media can easily be a
social you know, gets into commentary way outside the bounds.

Speaker 1 (49:54):
But any school connected social media.

Speaker 6 (49:56):
Account, which we all know many of our head coaches
are running, that that is a great information tool to
promote your program, to be able to manage the message
that you're getting out the way you want it to
promote your kids.

Speaker 1 (50:11):
But beyond that, that's.

Speaker 6 (50:12):
All it's for, you know, reposting you know, things that
are out in the social domain in society, and commenting
on things is never appropriate in those accounts. So again
it's an information promotional tool for your program, and that's

(50:32):
pretty much it. So you know they're smart and how
you know, obviously kids that will trickle down to kids
and they're going to promote themselves. However, they have to
be on approach on their social media accounts as well,
because that stuff ends up sometimes coming all the way
up to me of look at this and look what
this athlete's doing, and then you go down a whole

(50:54):
nother rabbits.

Speaker 8 (50:55):
Hole of that.

Speaker 1 (50:56):
So we've been pretty good about it at our site.

Speaker 2 (51:01):
One you want to weigh in on this at all, same.

Speaker 7 (51:02):
Thing, you know, we just make sure that they understand
that that social media can on the athletic part, the
athlete part, it's it can break you, right, it can
stop you from going to the next level.

Speaker 1 (51:13):
And what's whatever you.

Speaker 7 (51:15):
Post that's on there, it won't go away, right because
somebody can screenshot it and then now it's stuck forever.
So it's just letting them know that, Okay, it may
be funny right now, but it won't be funny in
the long world, especially when you're trying to promote yourself
on your own page. So it's just letting them know that, hey,
look there's boundaries to all this. You know, you can

(51:36):
have fun, but you know there's boundaries to it, especially
if you're trying to to play at the next level.
If you're trying to advance that there's there's boundaries for
for the athlete and then for the for the coaches.
It's you know, I promote to make sure that just
turn off the comments, right, you know, it's like, oh,
this person says something, I want to talk about the program,
you know, and give clarification.

Speaker 1 (51:56):
Sometimes you just have to let it go, right.

Speaker 7 (51:59):
And so I let them know, just just stop the
comments on the post.

Speaker 1 (52:03):
That way you don't have to you don't have to
deal with it.

Speaker 2 (52:06):
So let's give away another para Dodger tickets if we can,
and then we'll get into n I L uh six
four one or no, I can't even read five four
one o three one five four.

Speaker 1 (52:21):
One three one.

Speaker 2 (52:21):
All right, congratulations, congratulations. I see a Dodger sweatshirt over there?
Is that what that is?

Speaker 1 (52:28):
Now?

Speaker 2 (52:32):
Is that what it is? A mess?

Speaker 1 (52:34):
Oh? Okay?

Speaker 2 (52:37):
Uh, Mike, you mentioned trickle down with with you know, transfers.
Big topic is n I L name image likeness and
we certainly see it at the collegiate level. What are
you at the CIF Southern Section scene with NI L
right now? Is it an issue? Is it being brought up.
Is it something that athletic directors, administrators, coaches have come

(52:59):
to you guys and talked about at this point, Yet.

Speaker 4 (53:02):
We're seeing students using their name, image, and likeness to
make money.

Speaker 3 (53:06):
That is not illegal in the state of California. They're
just restrictions on how it goes on.

Speaker 4 (53:12):
Historically, you've had child actors that have gone on and
played athletics, and so there's there's provisions in our bylaws
that allow for students to make money off their name, image,
and likeness. What they can't do is be in their uniform,
their school uniform, or be on the school property associated
with their school. So they have to be independent in
how they're going about their name, image, likeness piece and

(53:33):
there's no problems with that. When we find when things
are brought to us that hey, you're in this particular
image of you know, you're wearing a uniform, you're promoting
a particular product, then the rural states that you know,
there's no ban at that point, it's a warning. You
just make sure that we've got to address it, give
back the money and do what you want to do
or make sure that it's right and then no, no harm.

Speaker 3 (53:55):
No foul. If it happens again, then we started getting
into other restrictions.

Speaker 4 (53:58):
But name image of likeness isn't illegal in the state
of California for high school athletes.

Speaker 1 (54:03):
It's just the provisions you have to follow.

Speaker 2 (54:04):
What about high school teams, whether it's a football team,
a basketball team, is is that allowed? Is that sponsorship?
I guess is that different?

Speaker 3 (54:12):
That would be different? It's okay, a little more conflute
as far as that's concerned.

Speaker 4 (54:16):
I mean, you know, you've got schools that that might
have partnerships in certain areas, but you know, getting into
once you start getting into the individual players, that's where
it really gets problematic.

Speaker 2 (54:27):
John, the nag name image likeness. Is that something that
that you saw at San Clementy High School.

Speaker 6 (54:33):
We've had a few and we we abide by the rules.
They aren't aware of that most often, but it is
out there. So and you know, we know now that
kids are considering colleges and actually opportunities out of high
school have been greatly reduced because of the transfer portal

(54:55):
and and the big schools holding scholarships up for that
their athletes within the transfer portal, So there's not a
ton of it but we do get it, and yeah,
it has to be monitor.

Speaker 2 (55:09):
You brought up something that's great. I'm glad you did.
You mentioned at the college level the emphasis on transfer
portal and grabbing kids out of the portal and building
programs that way. That affects high school recruiting, and it's
it's hit it, I think pretty hard. And it's now
redefine the recruiting and maybe where kids are going to
go thinking they're going to go one school and they're not,

(55:31):
they're going to go to one conference and they're not,
and they're having to go to they're going to a
D two school, or they're going somewhere else at the
envisioned Melissa, I'll ask you that transfer portal at the
collegiate level and you're and you're pushing girls on to
play collegiately, and you had a lot of young ladies
go on and play at the collegiate level. How much
did you see at that in the last couple of
years coaching the transfer portal at college affecting how your

(55:53):
girls are being recruited.

Speaker 5 (55:55):
Well, I will say that most of my kids are
Division three, whether they believe that or their parents believe that.
When they start the program. They certainly understand that when
they finish, But what I will also say is that
is again transparency. When I have the parent meeting, I
am speaking to that specifically. One of the lucky things
about our schools is we have connections all over the
country with Division three schools, and our counselors do a

(56:17):
great job of listing schools that would be great for
these kids to go to, so they can start looking
into that with hopes of getting a scholarship, but also
being encouraged to apply to Division three schools where they
want to play basketball or not play basketball, but knowing
that that could be the possibility that that's never going
to be an option as far as a Division one scholarship,
So we really work hard to.

Speaker 7 (56:37):
Inform them one how about you guys, same thing, And
I also let the parents know that, look, there's more
than Division one. There's two, there's three, there's an AI
you know, and there's always ways to get to where
you need to go. You may have to go, you know,
a detour, right and you have to be okay with it.

Speaker 1 (56:55):
Just the way the portal is.

Speaker 7 (56:57):
You know, you're not seeing much traction from the division
once coming straight to the high school no more, and
then just having that conversation with the parents.

Speaker 1 (57:05):
There's other ways.

Speaker 7 (57:06):
The whole end goal is to get education for free
one right, and if you make it to the next level,
then hey, it's great. But the whole goal is are
we here to get an education or are we're here
to play at the next level?

Speaker 1 (57:18):
Right? If and then that's the conversation starters.

Speaker 7 (57:21):
That you know we have to have with the with
the parents, so that way I know how to channel
on how to move.

Speaker 2 (57:27):
In our final minutes here, do anybody have any questions
before we get any final last thoughts from our panelists?
Any questions, any thoughts?

Speaker 1 (57:34):
Absolutely well. I think.

Speaker 6 (57:42):
Being involved, being connected, being available. I'm at virtually every
home contest. Many of my coaches are on campus, so
I'm fortunate there so they have my support at all times.

Speaker 1 (57:57):
But in coaches.

Speaker 6 (57:58):
Meetings, our preseason meeting, we'll have a couple others during
the course of the year where they have an opportunity
to collaborate. But I think for me, it's my personal
relationship with them. I treated it just like I coached
football for twenty six years and I was a relationship
kind of coach and I've taken that same philosophy to

(58:22):
my athletic leadership.

Speaker 1 (58:24):
Coaches know that I'm available.

Speaker 6 (58:29):
And that I've got their back, and I'll also give
them meaningful and sometimes very direct information that I want
to see. So I don't know if that answers your question,
but I'm there and they feel supported. That's what I want.

Speaker 2 (58:50):
It's a great question.

Speaker 1 (58:51):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (58:52):
Yes in the back.

Speaker 9 (58:56):
Yes, do you guys believe that in order for coach
to be successfully and talk about experience and all that,
do you believe that a young coach can be uhmative
coach and as the coach needs to fail many times
and like get rid of those years years of experience

(59:19):
in order to successfully. That's aunt you real life.

Speaker 5 (59:26):
I'll answer that because I actually had an experience. So
when I took over at Alamany, the coach that was
there prior to me had been there thirteen years and
very successful in multiple sports. So I took over and
went to a big tournament in the summertime, and I
walked in with my team. I was twenty two and
a half maybe at that time, and I remember seeing
these two older gentlemen sitting at the top of the
gym and I looked up and I heard them say, oh,

(59:48):
coach Graziano's gone from Alamani. They're gonna have a new coach.
They're not going to be very good. And immediately that
struck me because I'm extremely competitive, and so it it
was a reality check to me because I really hadn't
been in that forum yet, right, and so it forced
me to kind of start right away. Not that I
might have done it that way anyway, but I was

(01:00:08):
at least cognitive more of what I was doing. And
I think if you are passionate and if you are
always trying to learn, you are going to be a
great coach. And what I will say to the last
question I love that you asked that is that you
know the coaches at Harvard West, like, we have a
lot of very very successful coaches, and the one thing

(01:00:29):
we talk about is that on the years that we
don't have those great athletes that we won all those
championships because you won all those championships when you have
really good athletes, it's not all you. It's those years
when we have a great year of coaching and transforming
our team to be competitive that we don't get rewarded for.
So I love that you asked that question. For those
of you that are going to be administrators, I would
say as coaches, that's one thing that we really struggle

(01:00:52):
with is not being commended for the years that we
didn't bring home that CIF championship. Right, it's the years
that actually our kids had a good year and they
got a lot better and maybe that championships down the road.
But it really is an important question. I appreciate you
asking that.

Speaker 2 (01:01:07):
Yeah, thank you for that. Any other questions, Yes, sir.

Speaker 5 (01:01:14):
Number.

Speaker 3 (01:01:17):
Players sit out period would be half the season.

Speaker 4 (01:01:23):
So it depends on the school and where they're scheduled.
If they scheduled a lot towards the end, that they
can play more. Football is always going to be pretty
much split down the middle through five or six games.
But ultimately, uh, there's a date that splits the season
in half in each sport, and so however many schames
are scheduled after that date, is.

Speaker 3 (01:01:40):
The number of games that they'd be abible to play.

Speaker 2 (01:01:44):
Thank you for your question.

Speaker 1 (01:01:57):
Uh.

Speaker 7 (01:01:57):
The one one thing that we're doing is uh, so
I'm a K through twelve, right, so it's about about
fifteen hundred kids. The bulk of my kids are coming
from elementary. So there's about six six hundred plus in elementary,
about three hundred in junior high and.

Speaker 1 (01:02:13):
In high school.

Speaker 7 (01:02:13):
So what I started last year is I started sports
and elementary, right, so I know in order for me
to build this program, it's going to take me at
least four about a good four to five year solid
So I have put a lot of not one hundred percent,
but I've put at least eighty percent of my emphasis
with the elementary.

Speaker 1 (01:02:29):
And my junior high since I kind of have my
own theater program. Right.

Speaker 7 (01:02:33):
So with that being said, is I started six sports
and elementary. So we have cross country, flag, football, softball, soccer, basketball,
and track and field. So and it's getting the kids,
you know, just to get familiar with it so as
they transition, you know, for.

Speaker 1 (01:02:48):
Fourth and fifth graders. So that's where my whole focus is.

Speaker 7 (01:02:51):
It's getting the fourth and fifth graders to it's something
about wearing the school that you're wearing on your shirt.
So I make sure that there's emphasis on, look, you're
playing another school, we're gonna go travel, We're gonna play
Cornerstone today, you know. So it's just letting them know
and giving them the feel of look, this is six weeks.
We're not just gonna come out here and just you know,

(01:03:11):
just go through the motion. It's having my coaches from
the high school level come down and be able to
spend time with the youngers, right so that way that
as they transition, we're talking the same language all three levels.

Speaker 1 (01:03:25):
So that's where the emphasis has been.

Speaker 7 (01:03:26):
I've also created Media Night, So Media Night for us,
we do it three times a year, fall, winter, and spring,
which I just completed the first year. And the kids
get the you know, we set up the lights, the smoke,
you know, they take their pictures, We got the neon lights.
You know, we have everything set up for them. They
get their name called out. All the parents are you know,
snapping pictures and whatnot. So just getting the excitement, you know.

(01:03:49):
So I'm meeting the kids right where they're at, so
they like the camera, the lights, the action.

Speaker 1 (01:03:53):
I'm gonna give you all that.

Speaker 7 (01:03:55):
But in between that, I'm gonna be able to teach
you and to develop and then to grow the program.

Speaker 1 (01:04:00):
That's awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:04:04):
Yes, that's a great question, Yes, sir.

Speaker 4 (01:04:12):
Kind, And I think.

Speaker 10 (01:04:16):
Individuals and I have heard of instance, have individuals or
companies that have said Okay, your sponsor your athletics and
they given them a money saying that this should be
used for certain things.

Speaker 1 (01:04:37):
How do you feel about that? And that?

Speaker 10 (01:04:39):
And that over the line because the school getting.

Speaker 11 (01:04:46):
Sponsor that you can't really do anything when they use.

Speaker 10 (01:04:50):
Those funds any way, that's various or maybe a little
bit pushing the lines.

Speaker 11 (01:04:57):
How do you feel about that?

Speaker 1 (01:04:58):
How do you please that?

Speaker 4 (01:05:08):
I think so, And I can tell you what the
rules are as far as those types of donations. So
you know, when it comes to a donation of any
significance it comes to a school, it has to be
made to the school district and the governing body of
that of that organization, and then the school district and
the governing body. If it's a private school, it comes
to their their governing body.

Speaker 3 (01:05:28):
If it comes to a public school, the donations.

Speaker 4 (01:05:30):
Made to the school district and then the school district
then make sure that the school gets it and where
it goes. Now, how how things might be directed after that?
You know, that's if it's made to the school to
support their athletic program, then that that is what it is.
It's not a matter of, hey, we need to get
bats for this particular person.

Speaker 1 (01:05:48):
Whatever.

Speaker 3 (01:05:48):
Sometimes if a gift in kind is made, there again.

Speaker 4 (01:05:51):
That the gift is made to the district and then
it's filtered down there. It can't be straight to the kids,
it can't be straight to the teams. It's got to
should be coming through the school district for that. Yeah,
thank you for the question. Anybody else, he's a great questions.

Speaker 8 (01:06:06):
By the way, Yes, sir, so, I know plenty of transformation,
and I know many transactional wind and I think both
and and I hurt the program in one way or another.

Speaker 11 (01:06:27):
How much do you athletic directors feel like they have
ability and develop being their coaches towards that middle ground?

Speaker 6 (01:06:41):
Well, I can tell you that people often say it's
athletes first and winning second.

Speaker 1 (01:06:47):
In fact, you've probably read about it.

Speaker 6 (01:06:49):
Uh here, I'm more like athletes.

Speaker 1 (01:06:54):
One A in winning one B. You can be a
great coach that rubs.

Speaker 6 (01:07:03):
People the wrong way and is doing things in a
way that we don't agree with, and they'll last for
a period of time and eventually they'll be gone. But
if you are not successful, and you are a great
person and building great character within your program, and you're
not being successful over a period of time, you won't

(01:07:25):
be able to shed light on being what it means
to be great character and all of that because you
won't have a job either.

Speaker 1 (01:07:32):
So you need both.

Speaker 6 (01:07:35):
And I'm not saying winning is that important, but it's
a one A and one B thing for me. So
that's kind of how we approach it.

Speaker 1 (01:07:46):
Yeah and all.

Speaker 7 (01:07:47):
And also to piggyback on that, it's also you know,
seeing where you're at, right will determine Okay, you're transactional
transaction is good, but you signed up, and it's me
reminding the coach why did you sign up. You didn't
sign up to win, right, You signed up because some
coach or some men or some woman influenced you in

(01:08:10):
your life.

Speaker 1 (01:08:10):
Right.

Speaker 7 (01:08:11):
So I always try to go back to the foundation
of it and say, okay, look, we got in here
because somebody inspired you to be a coach, right, So
now we need that to come forward.

Speaker 1 (01:08:20):
The wins are gonna come. Right.

Speaker 7 (01:08:22):
It's nice to have all the wins and the accolades,
but at the you know, at the end of the day,
I'm you know, I'm at a small school, so I'm
speaking small school, right.

Speaker 1 (01:08:31):
Did we have a winning program?

Speaker 7 (01:08:32):
Yes, we did, right, But at the same time, It's like,
what are we leaving behind? If this was their last
ever game to be played, what did you leave them with?
Because they can't take the wins with them, right, They
could take the letter, they could take the pass, they
can take a picture of the trophy.

Speaker 1 (01:08:47):
But what are we leaving right? So yes, I'm you know,
I would say fifty to fifty.

Speaker 7 (01:08:52):
But also, as you know, you have to kind of
lean a little bit more on the transformational side of it.
The transactions will take so but the transaction, the transformational part.

Speaker 1 (01:09:03):
Is going to take you leap years ahead in life.

Speaker 6 (01:09:07):
And as a leader of the athletic department, you have
to give every coach and opportunity to succeed, and you
need to provide them with all the tools to succeed.
And your philosophy what you expect, you know, leadership style wise,
what kind of fundamental principles within your athletic program are
across the board that are you know also will help

(01:09:31):
support it. For example, academics, that's a huge thing for us.
That is something I've hung my hat on with on
our program. Our expectation is that you will be successful
in the classroom.

Speaker 2 (01:09:44):
First.

Speaker 1 (01:09:45):
We want to thanks to Mike and.

Speaker 6 (01:09:49):
Rob and CIF and their academic distinction and Recognition awards.
We put a huge emphasis on that. You don't want
to be the one outlier program that doesn't get it,
doesn't receive that recognition from the CIF Southern Section. So
you know, our expectation is that hardworking, dedicated students are hardworking,

(01:10:09):
dedicated athletes. It doesn't guarantee success, but it is a
universal principle across our athletic program that that is a
fundamental baseline expectation. And from there you got which now
you got something to work with.

Speaker 1 (01:10:24):
Well.

Speaker 2 (01:10:24):
I thank John, Mike, Melissa one our four panelists, and
thank you guys great questions, Thank you for listening, for
being a part of this, thanks for watching on YouTube,
Thanks for podcasting as well. We certainly appreciate Hopefully you
guys learned something. I'm sure the panelists we'll talk to
you if you want to come up and asking further
questions as well. So thanks a lot. To have a
great after everybody,

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Masters In Coaching Podcast- Episode LXXXI (2025 California Coaches Conference)

United States of Kennedy