February 12, 2025 • 32 mins
Navigating the Open Marriage Journey
In this debut episode of the Rearranged Marriage Podcast, Brig and Monica Tison share the story of their ten-year relationship, covering their traditional milestones and recent decision to move from a monogamous to an open marriage. They candidly discuss their motivations, the challenges they faced, including fertility struggles and the impact of these on their intimacy and mental health, and their aspirations for the podcast. The episode sets the stage for their future discussions on redefining modern relationships and encourages listeners to question societal norms around marriage and intimacy.
00:00 Introduction to the Rearranged Marriage Podcast
00:44 Meet Brig and Monica
02:28 Why Start a Podcast?
06:25 Our Relationship Journey
11:11 Fertility Struggles and Health Challenges
22:36 Rebuilding Our Relationship
23:36 Exploring New Paths in Marriage
30:15 Teaser for the Next Episode
Follow us on Instagram
Music by Bboy Wicket Beats
In this debut episode of the Rearranged Marriage Podcast, Brig and Monica Tison share the story of their ten-year relationship, covering their traditional milestones and recent decision to move from a monogamous to an open marriage. They candidly discuss their motivations, the challenges they faced, including fertility struggles and the impact of these on their intimacy and mental health, and their aspirations for the podcast. The episode sets the stage for their future discussions on redefining modern relationships and encourages listeners to question societal norms around marriage and intimacy.
00:00 Introduction to the Rearranged Marriage Podcast
00:44 Meet Brig and Monica
02:28 Why Start a Podcast?
06:25 Our Relationship Journey
11:11 Fertility Struggles and Health Challenges
22:36 Rebuilding Our Relationship
23:36 Exploring New Paths in Marriage
30:15 Teaser for the Next Episode
Follow us on Instagram
Music by Bboy Wicket Beats
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Dearly beloved, we are gathered here today to join Brigh and Monica Tyson in unholy
(00:06):
matrimony.
This is not the beginning of a new relationship but an acknowledgement of the next chapter
in their lives.
Brigh and Monica have spent years together and you will now bear witness to what their
relationship has become.
This is the Rearranged Marriage Podcast.
Here we go.
(00:41):
Hey y'all.
Hello.
I'm Brigh.
And I'm Monica.
And this is Rearranged Marriage Podcast.
A podcast about us moving from a monogamous relationship into an open relationship.
So let's talk about that.
What is this really?
We are just your average married couple.
(01:05):
We're in Austin, Texas.
We've been together for 10 years in total.
And we're going to be in a relationship.
In Austin, Texas, we've been together for 10 years in total.
And for the most part, we've lived what everybody would consider a traditional normal life.
(01:30):
We dated, we got married, we got a dog, and we had a kid.
But since then, over the last six months, we've made some changes.
What are those changes?
We have decided to open up our marriage.
Which means what?
(01:51):
We are dating and seeing other people outside of one another.
And what is better drama than that?
Everybody loves their friends drama.
What's better than hearing about your friends who are married, seeing other people.
Literally going on dates.
We're doing it.
Okay.
And that's what this podcast says, right?
(02:12):
It's following this journey.
Yes.
We're documenting our experience with this change.
Now we just said this change was made six months ago.
So we're going to have to patch you all up on some things.
So let's start there.
So why are we doing this podcast?
I feel like a few months ago, I came to you and I said, this would be interesting for
(02:35):
people to hear about.
And the next day, my phone showed up.
So why do you want to do this podcast?
And I'll tell you, I'll answer first.
Okay.
I'm tired of being the only middle-aged white man without a podcast.
So I needed to make a change.
The accuracy.
But seriously, why do you want to do this?
(02:57):
Because we are opening ourselves up to a lot of judgment from strangers, from family,
from friends.
I want to do this for a lot of reasons.
And I think that it is forced time and space for us to have genuine conversations about our
(03:18):
experience.
We have agreed that an open marriage only works if we are over communicating with one another
about what's going on.
So dedicated time to sit down and talk about it is highly important.
I think another thing is we didn't really have anyone who was doing this that we
(03:39):
knew.
I feel like we were navigating this experience somewhat blindly.
And it would have been really nice to have someone with a shared experience, to affirm
some of the things that we were thinking.
We're challenging the entire concept of what relationships are in present day society.
(04:00):
It's a big thing.
And so talking about it openly might open the door for other people to start having these
types of conversations in their relationships, to rethink what they believe relationships
to be in our society.
Yeah.
Even not just talking about relationships, I'm glad you brought that up.
I hate this idea of things being taboo.
(04:23):
I hate the fact that you're not supposed to talk about shit.
I think that we should be able to talk about anything.
So who knows?
Maybe somebody will hear this and say, oh, maybe I can talk about the things that I felt
like I could.
I don't know if that's going to happen.
But I think for us, when we started having these conversations, we heard a lot of questions.
(04:44):
Some good questions, some bad questions, some questions felt like people were trying to
prove us to be idiots.
But then it was a lot of, oh, you know, my brother is in an open relationship.
Or I know somebody who did that and it worked or failed or was divorced.
I wonder if I would have done something differently.
(05:05):
And so we heard all of these answers and it was like, people are talking about this just
not openly.
So fuck it.
Let's go talk about it.
Yeah.
And so, you know, that was my thought.
And lastly, I just, I don't know, I think it's real, right?
I want to talk about something that's real.
(05:27):
Yeah.
I don't want to sit here and say, oh, yeah, we're happily married and everything is perfect.
And we're also dating other people and everything is great.
That's not what this is.
If things suck, let's talk about it.
If we fight, let's talk about it.
If we disagree or if things are fantastic, you know, but I want this to be a real time.
(05:50):
This is what's going on.
We're doing something different.
I don't know if it's going to work.
That's the thing about this is we have no fucking idea where this is going.
Nope.
No idea.
This is early on and I know I haven't read them because I don't read much.
But I know there are statistics out there against us.
So I'm not going to sit here and just paint everything to be perfect.
(06:12):
So that's why I'm doing this.
I mean, let's, let's make this room.
Okay.
We should probably tell people who we are and how we got here.
That would be a, that would be a good start.
Okay.
Cool.
So we've known each other for a long time.
I think, like I said, we're a normal married couple, but the only difference is we've known
(06:33):
each other since we were nine, same hometown, same elementary school, same high school, families
or friends.
I know your brothers, you worked with my sisters.
I played baseball with your brothers.
So, but that affected our relationship, right?
How this really started was after college, we ran into each other.
I felt a spark.
(06:54):
I asked you on about five dates until you finally said sure, sure, enthusiastically.
I, I don't know why it took so damn long.
And obviously work, now you're here, but that was important because we got to jump five
steps ahead.
Totally.
It allowed us to get into much more serious conversations way faster than strangers get
(07:20):
into the serious conversations.
And the reality was we were in our mid 20s at this point and all of our friends were
in serious relationships, engaged, married, had kids.
Like, it felt like everyone around us were a step ahead of us.
And so, I don't think that either of us entered into our dating relationship lightly.
(07:45):
I think that we went in moving too serious very quickly with the idea that like, we're
going to do this to see if we are meant to be married.
Yeah.
And I think that we are both the relationship people.
100%.
I had, I dated somebody in high school for four years.
I, I'd never really casually dated.
(08:08):
And I think you were the same way.
Yeah.
And so when we started dating, it was like, let's just, let's cut to the chase.
Or is this my person?
Could I spend my life with this person?
Which we're going to talk about?
Yeah.
How crazy that fucking idea is when you're 23 years old.
But we really, it felt like we were intentional.
It was an interview.
(08:29):
Yeah.
You know, I think that's really cool.
Yeah.
I think that we were in the same relationship.
We were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
But we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
(08:50):
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
(09:11):
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
(09:32):
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
Facing for one another and I'm not saying that those things don't still exist in our relationship in some aspect
But you are doing that a hundred percent of the time in those early stages to get to
(09:54):
the next goal of the relationship. Yeah, it's the honeymoon phase
it's it is I
Can't slip up here because I think that this could be it, right? And so
when we talk about the next step and the honeymoon phase
I mean if you think about how life is scripted to you it is truly
(10:16):
You go to school you go to college you get a job you move out you start dating you find your person
Right, and now you're dating and now you're engaged and now you're moving in together and now you're married and now you're
buying a house and now you're
Having kids and starting a family and there's always that next step and that's what that honeymoon phase is
(10:42):
It's just like how do we get there? How do we keep this excitement?
How do we keep this just shine to this and it's easy? It's easy when you're doing that
Yeah, until there's not that next step. Yeah, or until that next step
Isn't easy exactly exactly and so
We were married and everything was fantastic until it wasn't let's talk about where things shifted. Yeah
(11:10):
so we had been married for a couple of years and
Butterhouse and moved in and said all right
Well, what is the next thing for us next thing is let's have kids
Both you and I have always wanted to be parents super excited about that process a lot of our friends and already had kids or
We're also talking about having kids and that was the next thing for us in our relationship
(11:35):
and so
We were excited and you know you're taught
From sex ed in elementary school or middle school or whatever
You basically can look at someone and get pregnant and that wasn't the case for us at all
Yeah, yeah
and it's
(11:57):
Still harder for me to talk about so when we when we were having those conversations
I
Know Monica had taken a fertility test through a friend's company and it came back a plus obviously through modern fertility
Thank you very much. No, no free ads
And so I thought that I would I would do the same and
(12:19):
Just make sure everything looked right and that fertility test came back off
Nothing crazy, but they recommended I follow up and get some blood work done and that blood work came back very off
and that started this
Little bit of a spiral and it led to a
unexpected health situation where I got sent to
(12:43):
Five or six different doctors until one finally put me through a
MRI which found a tumor in my head and that was affecting
um
A lot of you know my physical health and also the fertility aspects and
I think that that obviously through
(13:04):
A wrench into things, but I think the bigger thing was
how I handled that and
Instead of just kind of facing that head on like I like to think I would have
um
You know that led to a pretty bad time in my life and I will mention that this
Was right at the start of COVID, you know, we got we got this diagnosis in the summer of 2019 and we chose to
(13:31):
simultaneously treat
What you had been diagnosed with but also like still
Push for trying to have a kid. Mm-hmm. I want to emphasize that we didn't we didn't get your diagnosis and put fertility on pause
We did both at the same time knowing that
(13:51):
Both would be hard and we just doubled down and said
Well, we're just going to pursue fertility treatments
Because getting pregnant naturally doesn't seem like it's going to be a thing while you're going through your treatment
and so
Let's just do it both at once and that I
Mean if anyone has ever been through any kind of fertility struggles in general or having trouble getting pregnant
(14:15):
That is a weight enough on a couple
Now compound that
With one of those people trying to
pure a tumor in their head at the same time I mean you
Yeah, no, it's a good you were going through it. Yeah, it's a good it's a good point in
And I think that that's where blame comes into play right because
(14:39):
We start to think about well why in this happening it's so easy for everybody else and at the same time
I have this health scare so I immediately think well, this is on me
Yeah, right and so now
Not only am I going through that, but we're also going through
IVF yeah, and not just one IVF but multiple failed IVF cycles
(15:00):
Which if you're familiar with IV IVF cycles they are not cheap
And those phone calls telling you that they failed are the most depressing
moments of your life it is
all of that money all of that time all of that
You know injections for your wife and everything and what you thought this next step was going to be
(15:24):
It's already not how you saw it and it's not working
and
So yeah, I mean say I
did turn to
alcohol
and that led to
drugs and
I spiroled and and my physical health was not good but more so my mental health was not good and I I do
(15:49):
Really look back and I know you don't put the blame on me and I appreciate that but I look back at that as a
pretty pivotal moment
where we had everything stacked against us and
It's not like
You know in the middle of COVID we couldn't go out and and see our friends
(16:13):
and relieved that we were stuck in the house together with our sadness
and this is a very very sad house
Yeah, and it and it goes from that honeymoon phase that we're talking about where there's always this next step and we're
out there just
thriving and living life and we're in this new city to now we're stuck in the house
I'm not well
(16:36):
And that next step is starting to become unattainable
Yeah, it felt like it was
We were starting to get to the point where we were trying to independently process
What if this never happens for us which is
Not a thing that you ever think about when you're in any of those honeymoon phases at all
(16:57):
and
I don't wish this on anyone
um
But I do want to say that like
kind of a sidebar
So many people go through this phase of life
Really isolated and alone and I think since then us talking about this has become really important
(17:20):
Because we know when anyone to feel like we did
Mm during that process
But the reality is that was our world our world was a lot of despair and a lot of sadness and a lot of disappointment
for
Two two and a half years and that's something yeah, we didn't talk about I mean
(17:40):
our families didn't even know
For the first year they knew what we were going through fertility wise, but they didn't really know
And they may be learning that right now
But fortunately for us
It did work eventually it eventually worked
and
We got to that next step and we it felt like we got that momentum back right and it's
(18:05):
Okay, we're back on track right and everything is happy
For nine months
Well, I'm pregnant and we're living in this bliss of like holy shit
We got here and we're so excited. We're setting up a nursery
We're registered for things we definitely didn't need and
We are so in this like bliss of we're gonna have a baby
(18:32):
That we never really talked about what it was going to be like to have a baby
and so
um
Ended up having a complicated pregnancy which
I mean we're putting it all out there which meant that we were not allowed to have sex during our whole pregnancy
(18:52):
Or for the last half of an pregnancy which is important and we'll come into play I think in our journey
um
and
It just kind of created a level of disconnect between us while we were so blissfully happy and excited you and I
We're not getting to have our intimate partner relationship in the same way that we had been before
(19:15):
tack on to that for the two years prior going through fertility treatments. We were also
Not intimate in a very fun or like cohesive way
We were having sex as a job for the aim of getting pregnant for the aim of having a kid
Yeah
When you're going through that it's it's like you're on a shot clock
(19:35):
And there's you lose that spark and there's no
You know fun in it. There's no
Four play there's no
surprises. It's just hey
It's time to do this
And hopefully it works but in the back of our mind
It was almost like we know that isn't gonna work and why are we even doing this yeah so
(19:55):
For years our physical relationship diminished
mm-hmm
and then you get to ibf and a
complicated pregnancy and it's even worse you're not even really allowed to touch each other
Yeah, right and so you
Although it felt like we got our momentum back in terms of
(20:16):
Quote, unquote, what life is supposed to look like right like achieving that next stage our
Marriage and our intimacy took a turn totally
so
I would say a most a lot of emotional damage done
Through the infertility process and then a lot of
Physical intimacy erosion over that and/or pregnancy and now we're just gonna drop a baby in the mix and see if that improves things
(20:45):
It doesn't it doesn't at all it doesn't because having a newborn
Is the most beautiful thing in the world they say and it is beautiful
But it fucks everything up for a while
you take you take people who have gone through
years of this and
(21:07):
Now all of a sudden you you take away sleep you take away
Any of that physical intimacy that you thought you were gonna get back you throw in hormones it became
contentious right and
Going back to gill i know that you've talked a lot about
(21:28):
How you felt a bit guilty about how you felt about me?
Yeah, I think I spent close to the first year postpartum
really
Ignoring our entire relationship that we had built because
uh the switch flipped in me to just only care about our son and
(21:56):
in doing so i
Did not have the emotional capacity
the even just like the energy or mental capacity at all
To care about anybody except him
No, elected myself and very much neglected you in our relationship
(22:19):
and so
Now we're talking about erosion of emotional intimacy
Emotion erosion of physical intimacy and an erosion of just like overall
relationship with one another
and I think that that
Caused our relationship to break down to a point where we had to rebuild it
(22:45):
but
It kind of gave us this opportunity to rebuild it to something that
We collectively
Wanted yeah, well, yeah, we dug ourselves out of this hole right and we we got back in the groove, but I think that we
looked up and we realized
(23:07):
okay
We feel better, but we we kind of just feel
Like we're retired. We we just we we can never leave the house and now our whole lives
We our identity is now just parents our lives revolve around this
Child which is fantastic and that's great. He's the best he's the best, but at the same time
(23:30):
We we weren't able to go out and do anything so we started questioning a lot
And I think it started with questioning like
What is life supposed to look like in general and and the reason that happened is
We we felt unhappiness and then we'd go out
We'd go to restaurants we'd go to bars everybody looks sad
(23:51):
Everybody's miserable especially keep with kids you look at families at restaurants everybody's on their phone or their tablets and
Where you look at a couple and they they just look just exhaust it with each other right and so
That's where this questioning comes into play is okay that script of
Get married
(24:12):
Moving together have a family and then you just live your life and that's what your life is and then you die of a disease and you look back
And say hey, this is a fantastic life. We started wondering is that is that what this is or we there is that the best no
That sounds horrible and I think one day we were we were deep into conversations about this and I had this
(24:37):
Visual realization about relationships, right?
I believe that every single relationship is headed to one of two destinations
the first is
Termination, right and the relationship whether it's while you're dating or while you're married or whatever the relationship has to end
(24:57):
the second is
settling and
What settling felt like was
accepting less than the most happiness we could achieve as individuals and as a couple and so
So
We were either going to
End up
(25:19):
resenting each other and ending our relationship or
We were going to settle for less than happiness in our personal lives
And we didn't want either of those things at all
you are my best friend you are my person
And we are a solid team for our kid
(25:42):
But it is unrealistic for me to expect that a single person can meet all of my
physical emotional
intellectual and interpersonal needs
And so rather than move towards resentment for a view or move towards not having all of those needs met for myself
(26:07):
We started to discuss well what would it look like if we sourced those things
outside our marriage? Yeah, we took a detour
we
created a new path yeah, and in that
Thought process and what marriage is supposed to look like to other people
there was this
(26:27):
common theme of ownership
right and and I don't I don't know the history again. I don't read but I don't I don't know
where
Monogamy and where
Marriage and all of that stems from but it felt a lot like ownership
right and
That all of this came to a point where
(26:51):
You were having this question of what what does happiness look like and I was having this question of you know
Do I am I supposed to own this person like Monica is this amazing smart
successful
just
outgoing person and I didn't look at it as
I own this woman
(27:11):
And I don't think that you know
Maybe yeah, maybe you're right that whole bucket that you're talking about of all these needs maybe I can't fill it and
Maybe she's right. Maybe that's unrealistic and so yes, we did start to have this conversation around
How else can we fill it?
And at the same time that physical aspect we started to think about how do we
(27:33):
Spice this up again. Yeah, so
That gets to more recent times and
I think this conversation really started around
Sexual attraction you started to point out that you may be a little bit more fluid
and I started to notice you were
calling women beautiful and
(27:55):
Seemingly attracted to them and
And so we we started having this this conversation around how do we spice this up?
You know, we're back on track with our life
But now we're looking for that next step and so what does that look like?
And then we started to joke about
(28:18):
Well, if you're attracted to women and I'm attracted to women
It was a huge light bulb moment where it was like whoa, okay, let's talk about that maybe
Maybe having another woman in our relationship would be interesting for us
and
(28:42):
We don't really know how to make that happen. No, it was a fun idea
It was and I think that as we continue to talk about
that aspect it was
Our friends thought we were just joking or yeah, yeah, we would make some jokes around that
But
We were serious. Yeah, but we we started to realize as a married couple like how how do you even go about that?
(29:05):
We're not the type to go out to a bar and say hey, I saw you across the bark and we didn't want to do this with a friend
Because that's weird
We also didn't know how to go about that with a stranger
So it just felt like this fun idea that we were just kicking around maybe we're just talking about it to keep that excitement
Yeah, but we never really knew
How to go after that until
(29:29):
the
which
Enter the which
And I think the witch needs her own episode. We're gonna talk about the which but
just to tease it
Yes, some of friend of a friend
um
In passing, you know a conversation came up and I had made a comment about how
(29:52):
Monica was attracted to women and she had said oh
Well that may make for a complicated marriage
And I had said no it could be a fun one and she said
I would have fun with that
And I have never raced back home
so quickly in my life
(30:14):
And so
On the next episode
We'll talk about our
Experience with the witch that night that kind of kicked everything off and
Reaffirmed what we had thought about just in terms of
Filling our bucket filling our buckets so we'll save that for next episode
(30:39):
Before we go
I want to say that
I think that early on the people that listen to this are going to be you know
It's gonna be from us telling them about it or through social media
So it's gonna be a lot of our
Family and friends. I think that this is gonna be
(31:00):
pretty jarring right and it's
it's something that
Is not supposed to be talked about. It's something that's gonna be surprising
I think that we'll have some people who are on our side and cheering for us
I think that we'll have a lot of people who are saying
This doesn't make any sense. It's not supposed to happen. There's no way it's gonna work
(31:20):
I think that a lot of people have questions for us which we
Embrace
I love the questions. I love talking about I love talking about how we got here
But I think it's gonna bother some people
Right and I my ask for those people is think about why
This bothers you
(31:40):
Why is that and I think that if you really really think about it it probably stems from
Ideals that were passed along to you
Right, I think that
For anybody who thinks that this is wrong, it's probably because
They think that life is supposed to look one certain way and that's
(32:03):
Kind of what we're going against. Yeah
I think the life is supposed to look exactly how you want it to
so
Come ask us questions come tell me why I'm wrong, but first
I'd love for you to ask yourself why does this bother you
And we'll get into that
(32:24):
Can't we all right? Thanks y'all. Thanks
(upbeat music)
(upbeat music)
(upbeat music)
(upbeat music)
(upbeat music)
(upbeat music)
(upbeat music)
(32:46):
(upbeat music)
(upbeat music)
(upbeat music)
(upbeat music)
Dearly beloved, we are gathered here today to join Brigh and Monica Tyson in unholy
(00:06):
matrimony.
This is not the beginning of a new relationship but an acknowledgement of the next chapter
in their lives.
Brigh and Monica have spent years together and you will now bear witness to what their
relationship has become.
This is the Rearranged Marriage Podcast.
Here we go.
(00:41):
Hey y'all.
Hello.
I'm Brigh.
And I'm Monica.
And this is Rearranged Marriage Podcast.
A podcast about us moving from a monogamous relationship into an open relationship.
So let's talk about that.
What is this really?
We are just your average married couple.
(01:05):
We're in Austin, Texas.
We've been together for 10 years in total.
And we're going to be in a relationship.
In Austin, Texas, we've been together for 10 years in total.
And for the most part, we've lived what everybody would consider a traditional normal life.
(01:30):
We dated, we got married, we got a dog, and we had a kid.
But since then, over the last six months, we've made some changes.
What are those changes?
We have decided to open up our marriage.
Which means what?
(01:51):
We are dating and seeing other people outside of one another.
And what is better drama than that?
Everybody loves their friends drama.
What's better than hearing about your friends who are married, seeing other people.
Literally going on dates.
We're doing it.
Okay.
And that's what this podcast says, right?
(02:12):
It's following this journey.
Yes.
We're documenting our experience with this change.
Now we just said this change was made six months ago.
So we're going to have to patch you all up on some things.
So let's start there.
So why are we doing this podcast?
I feel like a few months ago, I came to you and I said, this would be interesting for
(02:35):
people to hear about.
And the next day, my phone showed up.
So why do you want to do this podcast?
And I'll tell you, I'll answer first.
Okay.
I'm tired of being the only middle-aged white man without a podcast.
So I needed to make a change.
The accuracy.
But seriously, why do you want to do this?
(02:57):
Because we are opening ourselves up to a lot of judgment from strangers, from family,
from friends.
I want to do this for a lot of reasons.
And I think that it is forced time and space for us to have genuine conversations about our
(03:18):
experience.
We have agreed that an open marriage only works if we are over communicating with one another
about what's going on.
So dedicated time to sit down and talk about it is highly important.
I think another thing is we didn't really have anyone who was doing this that we
(03:39):
knew.
I feel like we were navigating this experience somewhat blindly.
And it would have been really nice to have someone with a shared experience, to affirm
some of the things that we were thinking.
We're challenging the entire concept of what relationships are in present day society.
(04:00):
It's a big thing.
And so talking about it openly might open the door for other people to start having these
types of conversations in their relationships, to rethink what they believe relationships
to be in our society.
Yeah.
Even not just talking about relationships, I'm glad you brought that up.
I hate this idea of things being taboo.
(04:23):
I hate the fact that you're not supposed to talk about shit.
I think that we should be able to talk about anything.
So who knows?
Maybe somebody will hear this and say, oh, maybe I can talk about the things that I felt
like I could.
I don't know if that's going to happen.
But I think for us, when we started having these conversations, we heard a lot of questions.
(04:44):
Some good questions, some bad questions, some questions felt like people were trying to
prove us to be idiots.
But then it was a lot of, oh, you know, my brother is in an open relationship.
Or I know somebody who did that and it worked or failed or was divorced.
I wonder if I would have done something differently.
(05:05):
And so we heard all of these answers and it was like, people are talking about this just
not openly.
So fuck it.
Let's go talk about it.
Yeah.
And so, you know, that was my thought.
And lastly, I just, I don't know, I think it's real, right?
I want to talk about something that's real.
(05:27):
Yeah.
I don't want to sit here and say, oh, yeah, we're happily married and everything is perfect.
And we're also dating other people and everything is great.
That's not what this is.
If things suck, let's talk about it.
If we fight, let's talk about it.
If we disagree or if things are fantastic, you know, but I want this to be a real time.
(05:50):
This is what's going on.
We're doing something different.
I don't know if it's going to work.
That's the thing about this is we have no fucking idea where this is going.
Nope.
No idea.
This is early on and I know I haven't read them because I don't read much.
But I know there are statistics out there against us.
So I'm not going to sit here and just paint everything to be perfect.
(06:12):
So that's why I'm doing this.
I mean, let's, let's make this room.
Okay.
We should probably tell people who we are and how we got here.
That would be a, that would be a good start.
Okay.
Cool.
So we've known each other for a long time.
I think, like I said, we're a normal married couple, but the only difference is we've known
(06:33):
each other since we were nine, same hometown, same elementary school, same high school, families
or friends.
I know your brothers, you worked with my sisters.
I played baseball with your brothers.
So, but that affected our relationship, right?
How this really started was after college, we ran into each other.
I felt a spark.
(06:54):
I asked you on about five dates until you finally said sure, sure, enthusiastically.
I, I don't know why it took so damn long.
And obviously work, now you're here, but that was important because we got to jump five
steps ahead.
Totally.
It allowed us to get into much more serious conversations way faster than strangers get
(07:20):
into the serious conversations.
And the reality was we were in our mid 20s at this point and all of our friends were
in serious relationships, engaged, married, had kids.
Like, it felt like everyone around us were a step ahead of us.
And so, I don't think that either of us entered into our dating relationship lightly.
(07:45):
I think that we went in moving too serious very quickly with the idea that like, we're
going to do this to see if we are meant to be married.
Yeah.
And I think that we are both the relationship people.
100%.
I had, I dated somebody in high school for four years.
I, I'd never really casually dated.
(08:08):
And I think you were the same way.
Yeah.
And so when we started dating, it was like, let's just, let's cut to the chase.
Or is this my person?
Could I spend my life with this person?
Which we're going to talk about?
Yeah.
How crazy that fucking idea is when you're 23 years old.
But we really, it felt like we were intentional.
It was an interview.
(08:29):
Yeah.
You know, I think that's really cool.
Yeah.
I think that we were in the same relationship.
We were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
But we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
(08:50):
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
(09:11):
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
(09:32):
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
And we were in the same relationship.
Facing for one another and I'm not saying that those things don't still exist in our relationship in some aspect
But you are doing that a hundred percent of the time in those early stages to get to
(09:54):
the next goal of the relationship. Yeah, it's the honeymoon phase
it's it is I
Can't slip up here because I think that this could be it, right? And so
when we talk about the next step and the honeymoon phase
I mean if you think about how life is scripted to you it is truly
(10:16):
You go to school you go to college you get a job you move out you start dating you find your person
Right, and now you're dating and now you're engaged and now you're moving in together and now you're married and now you're
buying a house and now you're
Having kids and starting a family and there's always that next step and that's what that honeymoon phase is
(10:42):
It's just like how do we get there? How do we keep this excitement?
How do we keep this just shine to this and it's easy? It's easy when you're doing that
Yeah, until there's not that next step. Yeah, or until that next step
Isn't easy exactly exactly and so
We were married and everything was fantastic until it wasn't let's talk about where things shifted. Yeah
(11:10):
so we had been married for a couple of years and
Butterhouse and moved in and said all right
Well, what is the next thing for us next thing is let's have kids
Both you and I have always wanted to be parents super excited about that process a lot of our friends and already had kids or
We're also talking about having kids and that was the next thing for us in our relationship
(11:35):
and so
We were excited and you know you're taught
From sex ed in elementary school or middle school or whatever
You basically can look at someone and get pregnant and that wasn't the case for us at all
Yeah, yeah
and it's
(11:57):
Still harder for me to talk about so when we when we were having those conversations
I
Know Monica had taken a fertility test through a friend's company and it came back a plus obviously through modern fertility
Thank you very much. No, no free ads
And so I thought that I would I would do the same and
(12:19):
Just make sure everything looked right and that fertility test came back off
Nothing crazy, but they recommended I follow up and get some blood work done and that blood work came back very off
and that started this
Little bit of a spiral and it led to a
unexpected health situation where I got sent to
(12:43):
Five or six different doctors until one finally put me through a
MRI which found a tumor in my head and that was affecting
um
A lot of you know my physical health and also the fertility aspects and
I think that that obviously through
(13:04):
A wrench into things, but I think the bigger thing was
how I handled that and
Instead of just kind of facing that head on like I like to think I would have
um
You know that led to a pretty bad time in my life and I will mention that this
Was right at the start of COVID, you know, we got we got this diagnosis in the summer of 2019 and we chose to
(13:31):
simultaneously treat
What you had been diagnosed with but also like still
Push for trying to have a kid. Mm-hmm. I want to emphasize that we didn't we didn't get your diagnosis and put fertility on pause
We did both at the same time knowing that
(13:51):
Both would be hard and we just doubled down and said
Well, we're just going to pursue fertility treatments
Because getting pregnant naturally doesn't seem like it's going to be a thing while you're going through your treatment
and so
Let's just do it both at once and that I
Mean if anyone has ever been through any kind of fertility struggles in general or having trouble getting pregnant
(14:15):
That is a weight enough on a couple
Now compound that
With one of those people trying to
pure a tumor in their head at the same time I mean you
Yeah, no, it's a good you were going through it. Yeah, it's a good it's a good point in
And I think that that's where blame comes into play right because
(14:39):
We start to think about well why in this happening it's so easy for everybody else and at the same time
I have this health scare so I immediately think well, this is on me
Yeah, right and so now
Not only am I going through that, but we're also going through
IVF yeah, and not just one IVF but multiple failed IVF cycles
(15:00):
Which if you're familiar with IV IVF cycles they are not cheap
And those phone calls telling you that they failed are the most depressing
moments of your life it is
all of that money all of that time all of that
You know injections for your wife and everything and what you thought this next step was going to be
(15:24):
It's already not how you saw it and it's not working
and
So yeah, I mean say I
did turn to
alcohol
and that led to
drugs and
I spiroled and and my physical health was not good but more so my mental health was not good and I I do
(15:49):
Really look back and I know you don't put the blame on me and I appreciate that but I look back at that as a
pretty pivotal moment
where we had everything stacked against us and
It's not like
You know in the middle of COVID we couldn't go out and and see our friends
(16:13):
and relieved that we were stuck in the house together with our sadness
and this is a very very sad house
Yeah, and it and it goes from that honeymoon phase that we're talking about where there's always this next step and we're
out there just
thriving and living life and we're in this new city to now we're stuck in the house
I'm not well
(16:36):
And that next step is starting to become unattainable
Yeah, it felt like it was
We were starting to get to the point where we were trying to independently process
What if this never happens for us which is
Not a thing that you ever think about when you're in any of those honeymoon phases at all
(16:57):
and
I don't wish this on anyone
um
But I do want to say that like
kind of a sidebar
So many people go through this phase of life
Really isolated and alone and I think since then us talking about this has become really important
(17:20):
Because we know when anyone to feel like we did
Mm during that process
But the reality is that was our world our world was a lot of despair and a lot of sadness and a lot of disappointment
for
Two two and a half years and that's something yeah, we didn't talk about I mean
(17:40):
our families didn't even know
For the first year they knew what we were going through fertility wise, but they didn't really know
And they may be learning that right now
But fortunately for us
It did work eventually it eventually worked
and
We got to that next step and we it felt like we got that momentum back right and it's
(18:05):
Okay, we're back on track right and everything is happy
For nine months
Well, I'm pregnant and we're living in this bliss of like holy shit
We got here and we're so excited. We're setting up a nursery
We're registered for things we definitely didn't need and
We are so in this like bliss of we're gonna have a baby
(18:32):
That we never really talked about what it was going to be like to have a baby
and so
um
Ended up having a complicated pregnancy which
I mean we're putting it all out there which meant that we were not allowed to have sex during our whole pregnancy
(18:52):
Or for the last half of an pregnancy which is important and we'll come into play I think in our journey
um
and
It just kind of created a level of disconnect between us while we were so blissfully happy and excited you and I
We're not getting to have our intimate partner relationship in the same way that we had been before
(19:15):
tack on to that for the two years prior going through fertility treatments. We were also
Not intimate in a very fun or like cohesive way
We were having sex as a job for the aim of getting pregnant for the aim of having a kid
Yeah
When you're going through that it's it's like you're on a shot clock
(19:35):
And there's you lose that spark and there's no
You know fun in it. There's no
Four play there's no
surprises. It's just hey
It's time to do this
And hopefully it works but in the back of our mind
It was almost like we know that isn't gonna work and why are we even doing this yeah so
(19:55):
For years our physical relationship diminished
mm-hmm
and then you get to ibf and a
complicated pregnancy and it's even worse you're not even really allowed to touch each other
Yeah, right and so you
Although it felt like we got our momentum back in terms of
(20:16):
Quote, unquote, what life is supposed to look like right like achieving that next stage our
Marriage and our intimacy took a turn totally
so
I would say a most a lot of emotional damage done
Through the infertility process and then a lot of
Physical intimacy erosion over that and/or pregnancy and now we're just gonna drop a baby in the mix and see if that improves things
(20:45):
It doesn't it doesn't at all it doesn't because having a newborn
Is the most beautiful thing in the world they say and it is beautiful
But it fucks everything up for a while
you take you take people who have gone through
years of this and
(21:07):
Now all of a sudden you you take away sleep you take away
Any of that physical intimacy that you thought you were gonna get back you throw in hormones it became
contentious right and
Going back to gill i know that you've talked a lot about
(21:28):
How you felt a bit guilty about how you felt about me?
Yeah, I think I spent close to the first year postpartum
really
Ignoring our entire relationship that we had built because
uh the switch flipped in me to just only care about our son and
(21:56):
in doing so i
Did not have the emotional capacity
the even just like the energy or mental capacity at all
To care about anybody except him
No, elected myself and very much neglected you in our relationship
(22:19):
and so
Now we're talking about erosion of emotional intimacy
Emotion erosion of physical intimacy and an erosion of just like overall
relationship with one another
and I think that that
Caused our relationship to break down to a point where we had to rebuild it
(22:45):
but
It kind of gave us this opportunity to rebuild it to something that
We collectively
Wanted yeah, well, yeah, we dug ourselves out of this hole right and we we got back in the groove, but I think that we
looked up and we realized
(23:07):
okay
We feel better, but we we kind of just feel
Like we're retired. We we just we we can never leave the house and now our whole lives
We our identity is now just parents our lives revolve around this
Child which is fantastic and that's great. He's the best he's the best, but at the same time
(23:30):
We we weren't able to go out and do anything so we started questioning a lot
And I think it started with questioning like
What is life supposed to look like in general and and the reason that happened is
We we felt unhappiness and then we'd go out
We'd go to restaurants we'd go to bars everybody looks sad
(23:51):
Everybody's miserable especially keep with kids you look at families at restaurants everybody's on their phone or their tablets and
Where you look at a couple and they they just look just exhaust it with each other right and so
That's where this questioning comes into play is okay that script of
Get married
(24:12):
Moving together have a family and then you just live your life and that's what your life is and then you die of a disease and you look back
And say hey, this is a fantastic life. We started wondering is that is that what this is or we there is that the best no
That sounds horrible and I think one day we were we were deep into conversations about this and I had this
(24:37):
Visual realization about relationships, right?
I believe that every single relationship is headed to one of two destinations
the first is
Termination, right and the relationship whether it's while you're dating or while you're married or whatever the relationship has to end
(24:57):
the second is
settling and
What settling felt like was
accepting less than the most happiness we could achieve as individuals and as a couple and so
So
We were either going to
End up
(25:19):
resenting each other and ending our relationship or
We were going to settle for less than happiness in our personal lives
And we didn't want either of those things at all
you are my best friend you are my person
And we are a solid team for our kid
(25:42):
But it is unrealistic for me to expect that a single person can meet all of my
physical emotional
intellectual and interpersonal needs
And so rather than move towards resentment for a view or move towards not having all of those needs met for myself
(26:07):
We started to discuss well what would it look like if we sourced those things
outside our marriage? Yeah, we took a detour
we
created a new path yeah, and in that
Thought process and what marriage is supposed to look like to other people
there was this
(26:27):
common theme of ownership
right and and I don't I don't know the history again. I don't read but I don't I don't know
where
Monogamy and where
Marriage and all of that stems from but it felt a lot like ownership
right and
That all of this came to a point where
(26:51):
You were having this question of what what does happiness look like and I was having this question of you know
Do I am I supposed to own this person like Monica is this amazing smart
successful
just
outgoing person and I didn't look at it as
I own this woman
(27:11):
And I don't think that you know
Maybe yeah, maybe you're right that whole bucket that you're talking about of all these needs maybe I can't fill it and
Maybe she's right. Maybe that's unrealistic and so yes, we did start to have this conversation around
How else can we fill it?
And at the same time that physical aspect we started to think about how do we
(27:33):
Spice this up again. Yeah, so
That gets to more recent times and
I think this conversation really started around
Sexual attraction you started to point out that you may be a little bit more fluid
and I started to notice you were
calling women beautiful and
(27:55):
Seemingly attracted to them and
And so we we started having this this conversation around how do we spice this up?
You know, we're back on track with our life
But now we're looking for that next step and so what does that look like?
And then we started to joke about
(28:18):
Well, if you're attracted to women and I'm attracted to women
It was a huge light bulb moment where it was like whoa, okay, let's talk about that maybe
Maybe having another woman in our relationship would be interesting for us
and
(28:42):
We don't really know how to make that happen. No, it was a fun idea
It was and I think that as we continue to talk about
that aspect it was
Our friends thought we were just joking or yeah, yeah, we would make some jokes around that
But
We were serious. Yeah, but we we started to realize as a married couple like how how do you even go about that?
(29:05):
We're not the type to go out to a bar and say hey, I saw you across the bark and we didn't want to do this with a friend
Because that's weird
We also didn't know how to go about that with a stranger
So it just felt like this fun idea that we were just kicking around maybe we're just talking about it to keep that excitement
Yeah, but we never really knew
How to go after that until
(29:29):
the
which
Enter the which
And I think the witch needs her own episode. We're gonna talk about the which but
just to tease it
Yes, some of friend of a friend
um
In passing, you know a conversation came up and I had made a comment about how
(29:52):
Monica was attracted to women and she had said oh
Well that may make for a complicated marriage
And I had said no it could be a fun one and she said
I would have fun with that
And I have never raced back home
so quickly in my life
(30:14):
And so
On the next episode
We'll talk about our
Experience with the witch that night that kind of kicked everything off and
Reaffirmed what we had thought about just in terms of
Filling our bucket filling our buckets so we'll save that for next episode
(30:39):
Before we go
I want to say that
I think that early on the people that listen to this are going to be you know
It's gonna be from us telling them about it or through social media
So it's gonna be a lot of our
Family and friends. I think that this is gonna be
(31:00):
pretty jarring right and it's
it's something that
Is not supposed to be talked about. It's something that's gonna be surprising
I think that we'll have some people who are on our side and cheering for us
I think that we'll have a lot of people who are saying
This doesn't make any sense. It's not supposed to happen. There's no way it's gonna work
(31:20):
I think that a lot of people have questions for us which we
Embrace
I love the questions. I love talking about I love talking about how we got here
But I think it's gonna bother some people
Right and I my ask for those people is think about why
This bothers you
(31:40):
Why is that and I think that if you really really think about it it probably stems from
Ideals that were passed along to you
Right, I think that
For anybody who thinks that this is wrong, it's probably because
They think that life is supposed to look one certain way and that's
(32:03):
Kind of what we're going against. Yeah
I think the life is supposed to look exactly how you want it to
so
Come ask us questions come tell me why I'm wrong, but first
I'd love for you to ask yourself why does this bother you
And we'll get into that
(32:24):
Can't we all right? Thanks y'all. Thanks
(upbeat music)
(upbeat music)
(upbeat music)
(upbeat music)
(upbeat music)
(upbeat music)
(upbeat music)
(32:46):
(upbeat music)
(upbeat music)
(upbeat music)
(upbeat music)
Popular Podcasts
40s and Free Agents: NFL Draft Season
Daniel Jeremiah of Move the Sticks and Gregg Rosenthal of NFL Daily join forces to break down every team's needs this offseason.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.