2025-01-31 - BBI - Big Blue Insider with Dick Gabriel

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Big Loon. Sader Dick Gabriel with you
on a Friday, just ahead of the big day. Arkansas
Kentucky not as big as we thought it might be. Right,
we thought when the schedule was first released, everybody looked
to see where the Arkansas game fell on the schedule.
We really thought, I really believe fans media like probably
if you held them down, the coaches would admit they

(00:22):
really thought that this Arkansas game. And they're all tough,
but it would match a Kentucky team trying to fight
its way through the league in an Arkansas team that
might be contending for one of the top four spots
in the SEC tournament, not the championship. They weren't good enough,
but no, they're really struggling and they've lost their best player,

(00:44):
Boogie Flan. But as soon as they lost him, they
won their first conference game, the Razorbacks did. So you
don't know what's going to happen. Maybe they come in
here and throw in every shot that they put up. Doubtful,
but we do know it'll be dramatic. It'll be you know,
John Caliperry show the Return. I want you to talk
about that today because we talked about it yesterday and

(01:06):
it's probably even talked about enough. But Rick Patino weighed
in from his office up at Saint John's.

Speaker 2 (01:13):
Hello, Big Blue Nation. I didn't steer you wrong with
Mark Pope when I sent out that last video, and
I certainly won't steer you wrong with this video.

Speaker 1 (01:23):
Toughest day of.

Speaker 2 (01:25):
My coaching career at Louisville was when I had to
walk into Upperna. Tried not to show it, but when
I went home the reception, it taught me up apart
because I loved that place so much. And it's interesting
because I speaking and Cooley just recently about Providence and
he said he almost was brought to tears because of

(01:45):
the bad feelings he got going back there.

Speaker 1 (01:48):
But this is different.

Speaker 2 (01:49):
And as you all know, I'm not best friends with
John cal Perry. I respect him certainly, but it was
a mutual thing. The fans wanted to change John's read
the tea leaves. He needed a change, and he really
didn't want to leave. But what did he do for you?
He brought the best talent in the history of the
game of any university in America to Lexington. He also

(02:14):
won a national championship he also was his style of
play was extremely entertaining. So he's coming back on Saturday,
and I want all of you to show the great
class that you have, twenty three thousand plus people giving
him a huge standing ovation, show him what respect and
admiration's all about. I know you have the class I've

(02:36):
always believed in. You do it once again.

Speaker 1 (02:39):
I have to admit I don't know why would he
do this. I just can't figure it out. But what
I think is interesting, first of all is that he
did it. Secondly is that he admitted how much it
tore him up to come back to rupp Arena with
U of L. He was happy at U of L,
but it tore him up. He said, to come to
rupp Aerena because of course we stuck in Boston. In

(03:02):
his brains handed to him realizing he had screwed up.
He didn't get Tim Duncan. It's not going the way
he hoped. Yeah, he was rich beyond his wildest dreams,
but he wanted to win. Never came close in Boston.
Could have won, in my opinion, you'd probably agree a
couple more championships at Kentucky, but he screwed that up.

(03:22):
Let it all, get away, comes back, does a really
great job at U of l until the bitter end,
and then he drops this. And the other thing that
amazed me about this was when he said, you know,
basically said, you know, we're not best buddies, him and
John Caliperry, but to plead basically on Cali Perry's behalf.

(03:43):
But I think part of that too was he wants
the Big Blue Nation to be thought of in a
good way, and if fans just cascade Rupp Arena with Booze,
I think it's going to reflect poorly on this place
that he loved so much. I thought that it's really
interesting because I had forgotten this when I put together

(04:04):
the documentary on the ninety six team they won the championship.
You remember they beat U Mass in the final four,
but U Mass had beaten Kentucky early in the year,
second or third game of the year when Patino was
playing Tony Delk and Jeff Shepard at the point instead
of Anthony Epps, and Patino later said I lost that game,

(04:24):
you know, by not playing the right people at point guard.
When he moved Delk to the shooting guard and Epps
to the point guard spot. It all fell into place.
But after that game and Steve Moss and wk YT
reminded me that we had this SoundBite in the archives.
Here's a young John Calipery sounding like John Calipery basically

(04:45):
telling Kentucky fans whom he would later call crazy and whatever.
But as the UMass coach telling Kentucky fans how they
are to treat their own coach. I just hold a
game like this.

Speaker 2 (04:58):
The people in Kentucky don't go nuts their minds like
they always do and think everything's all over the world's
coming to it, and they've got a great basketball team.

Speaker 3 (05:07):
They've got a great basketball coach.

Speaker 2 (05:09):
Let him coach.

Speaker 1 (05:09):
Don't call the radio shows and tell him what his
problems off. He'll figure it out.

Speaker 2 (05:13):
Leave them alone. He's the best there is in all
of the profession, whether it's NBA, high school, college, whatever.

Speaker 4 (05:19):
It is, he's the best.

Speaker 1 (05:20):
And again, that was John Caliperry, then the UMass coach
back in nineteen ninety five, after his team beat the
Kentucky team that were going to beat them in the
Final four and win the national championship. He might deny
saying that about Rick Patino, but he certainly said it then,
and he already knew what to expect from Kentucky fans
when he got here. So it's just been interesting. I

(05:44):
heard somebody in a press conference ask Pope about the
fact that national pundits are telling Kentucky fans what to do.
I've not witnessed that, and I certainly have not said
anything about what people ought to do. I said, if
you want to do him, go right ahead. Just keep
in mind what he did. Why are you booing? And
as I told somebody the other day, I said, people

(06:04):
are booing. I think if they do because they're not
mad that he went to Arkansas. I don't believe because
Arkansas is not like Louisville or Tennessee. Yeah, it's a
conference team. People are still mad at him because of
the way he left the program, but those two bitter
losses in the nca Tournament from teams that should have

(06:24):
gone a lot farther. People are still angry about that
and have lost whatever memory they should have, in my opinion,
of what he did when he got here. And there
are people who, to me on social media have dismissed
what had happened here under Billy Gillespie. UK basketball had

(06:45):
disintegrated to just like being just some other also ran
program and Cala Perry brought it back unbelievably. Well, yeah,
I screwed it up at the end, and it was
his fault because he's stubborn and it's hurting him now
at Arkansas in my opinion. But unbelievable job he did here.

(07:05):
He gave you Kim fans exactly what they wanted for
six years. They turn around gave him what they wanted
when he left and left all that money on the table.
So now Mark Pope's got to beat Arkansas. His team
needs to jump up, find a way to beat the Razorbacks.
Pope talked about the media and Caliperi and this and that,
but he said, you know, at the end of the day,
they got a game to win.

Speaker 5 (07:26):
At the end of the day, like, we have serious
work to do. You know, we're we're This league is
brilliant and wonderful and incredibly competitive, and every single team
can win every single night, and you know, everybody's dealing
with dynamics on their roster and injury and fatigue and

(07:47):
frustration and growth and trying to make it through to
position themselves in the best place they possibly can for
the SEC Tournament and to make a run in the postseason,
and and so that's what consumes most of our time.

Speaker 1 (08:01):
As well it should. It's a nine o'clock start. Ksar
Boys begin at six thirty. Cameron and David seven thirty,
Tom and Jack with the call. Got to stay up
a little bit later to watch the Cats and the Razorbacks.
The UK women get to win last night over number
twenty two Alabama had to come from behind to do it.
They trailed after the first quarter twenty one to fifteen,

(08:23):
but then held Bama only nine points in the second
quarter went on to win at sixty five fifty six,
low scoring game. Kenny Brooks said, it was all about
that defense.

Speaker 6 (08:32):
I thought our defense was really good second thirty, fourth quarters,
and you know, it wasn't always the prettiest. I thought
we were a little bit off a little bit some
of the some of the balls that we normally grab
and secure we were tipping. But nonetheless I thought we
really came out. I thought Georgia was really good hand
those situations very well. You know, hit two big three's
that really gave us some separation. You know, everybody all that,

(08:54):
you know, everybody stepped up and did something.

Speaker 1 (08:56):
Clara Strack had a double double from the middle fourteen
and four team Georgia Aymore outstanding sixteen points, nine assists.
She did have six turnovers, but played all forty minutes
and as you might expect, vital in Kentucky turning defense
into offense.

Speaker 7 (09:14):
I remember in the third quarter Tiani was, you know,
when you put in a situation where you're failing, it's
hard to place all a defense. And I think that
she let one go when she was so down on herself,
and she she said, like my bad, and we're like, no,
like it's our bad because we have to be better
in the gaps.

Speaker 8 (09:27):
We have to be better in rotation.

Speaker 7 (09:28):
So we know that one on one matchups there they're tough,
Like you know me a good one on one defender role,
they're hard to come by. So we really understand that
as a team effort.

Speaker 1 (09:40):
Yeah, and it paid off as Kentucky comes back. It's
a winover a nationally ranked team and Wildcats go right
back to work. It's even tougher now on the road
Sunday at Oklahoma, ranked number thirteen. Right now, it's a
four o'clock star. Darren Hedricks broadcast begins at three forty
five with the pregame show and then the Wildcats and
the Sooner. They have played four times, Kentucky winning three,

(10:05):
but this is the first time they've played since twenty seventeen.
But again, this is the first time they will play
as conference rivals, and this might be the best Oklahoma
team that Kentucky will have faced. Up next, a relative
of a former NFL official does think the league is rigged.
We'll talk about that bottom of the hour. Daryl Bird
of the Cats Paws. He's written a book about Travis

(10:26):
Perry and Lyon County Sean Woods, The Unforgettable Guard, joins
us a little bit later on here on the Big
Boone Sider six thirty WLAP Welcome Back coming up in
just a few minutes. Daryl Bird of the Cats Paws
would tell us all about his book on Travis Perry
and Lion County called Lion Pride. Will also talk about
the Wild Kats in the Arkansas game. Daryl was at

(10:47):
both the Vandy and the Tennessee games, but we'll talk
first about his book because he started doing the stories
and reporting on and just getting to know the Lion
County community all during their run to the Sweet sixteen
championship last year. So now he's got a book out
and I can't wait to read it. You know that
the Super Bowl coming up with the Chiefs and the Eagles,

(11:10):
and there are people out there who believe the NFL
is rigged. We talked about this the other day because
it just seems like things always go Kansas City's way.
Dean Blandino, who is the Fox TV rules analyst now
former senior vice president of Officiating for the NFL, he
was on a podcast the other day and he revealed

(11:32):
the fact that his own brother believes the league is rigged,
and his brother is convinced that Blandino signed an NDA
non disclosure agreement when he left the league office, stating
that he can't tell anybody that it is rigged. He
was talking on the Sirius X and Mad Dog Sports show.
He said, we grew up in the same household. By

(11:54):
the way, he said, I told him there's no conspiracy.
There's too many variable and that's exactly what I've been
saying all along. But Blendino said it would be the
hardest sport to rig. He said, when you think about
football with seven different officials to say, okay, I'm going
to rig this game, or as he says, the game

(12:16):
is rigged from the league office right down. The officials
are just trying to get it right, he said, And
again I'll reiterate, we know that Tim Donaghy, an NBA official,
wasn't rigging games, but he was helping to fix games
by seeing to it that teams either did or did
not reach their point spread. That's where the gambling is done.

(12:38):
That's where the money's made point spread over and under.
And one basketball official can do that. Now, in a
similar situation in football, if you are let's say you're
the line judge and you need a team to not cover,
and you have the opportunity or not to call a

(13:01):
touchdown a touchdown, maybe you raise your hands, maybe you don't,
but that doesn't mean one of your compadres won't as well.
You see that all the time, more than one official
signaling touchdown. It rarely, if ever, comes down to one
official on a scoring play. It does come down to
one official on things like holding or pass interference. But

(13:24):
to say the league is rigged, if you want to believe,
you know that that an official here or there might
be doing things he shouldn't be doing, or she okay,
But to say the league is rigged to seat to
it that Kansas City wins is ridiculous. And it's just
as ridiculous I'll go back to the time when really

(13:46):
it's been both because Kentucky fans, like all fans, get paranoid.
But there was a stretch several years ago, probably almost
twenty years ago, where UK football suffered some weird losses
with two many penalty calls or whatever, and I kept
tearing people saying, well, the league doesn't want Kentucky to win.
Roy Kramer, the commissioner, make sure Kentucky doesn't win. I

(14:11):
heard that one more than once, and I checked it out.
Roy Kramer at the time was making six hundred thousand
dollars a year as the commissioner of the Southeastern Conference,
and of course I had a golden parachute. He was
on the tail end of his career, so I had
a hard time believing that Roy Kramer would a risk

(14:31):
prison time at his age. B give up that cushy
salary and C give up that golden parachute to make
sure Kentucky doesn't go to the independence ball. Come on
and I remember one week in the middle of it all,
Tom Leach did the math and he said, if they

(14:52):
really want to fix games, because every time a team
made a ball game, the league got money and every
team in the league program in the league got a share,
he said, if they want to make sure that the
league makes more money, they'll fix games to make sure
Kentucky gets in two enough wins to get to a

(15:12):
ball game. And South Carolina at the same time was
on the verge of getting to a ball game, which
was rare at the time for South Carolina. So that's
just how ridiculous it was. But I thought it was
interesting that Blandino spoke out on Sirius XM. You know,
and it also reminds you of you know, the fans
who believe that the NCAA tournament is stacked against Kentucky,

(15:36):
that officials at the behest of the NCAAA quote that big,
mysterious monolith, that nobody understands how it works. They want
to make sure Kentucky either doesn't get in or doesn't win,
forgetting about the fact that when it comes to college basketball,
the very thing that makes you, as a Kentucky fan
proud to be a Wildcat to be a Kentucky fan.

(15:58):
The enormity of Kentucky basketball is exactly why. If you're
gonna screw around with things as the group that runs
the NCAA Tournament, including the TV people, you want Kentucky
in the tournament and alive as long as it's feasibly possible,
because it brings eyeballs. It brings ratings. All the big

(16:23):
name brands. Do you go back to the Final Four
when George Mason and UCLA and Florida and I can't
remember who the fourth one was when they were in
it with tiny fan but even Florida Basketball, for all
the great things Billy Donovan did, never really pulled much
of an audience. The ratings for that Final Four were

(16:44):
the worst in the history of the Final Four. It's
the brand names that bring the eyeballs. North Carolina is
not going to get in the tournament this year. Probably
that's gonna hurt ratings because even if you're not a
North Carolina fan, people tune in to watch North caare Carolina,
and you better believe they tune in to watch Kentucky.
Do they tune into see you hoping they might lose? Maybe,

(17:06):
but they tune in, don't matter why that brings the eyeballs,
that brings the ratings, that brings the money. Not instantly,
of course, it's all applied to the following year when
they go out and sell advertising. So yeah, game like, yeah,
all that stuff's all about money. But remember, as I
said the other day, and there is a story out

(17:28):
there right now out of Las Vegas, that there's an
investigation going on right now about unusual betting patterns surrounding
the play of NBA player Terry Rozier in twenty twenty three.
Unusual betting patterns. He was with the Charlotte Hornets back then,

(17:52):
and that's part of the same probe that led to
a lifetime ban of John tay Porter, who had been
with the Raptors. NBA confirmed this on Thursday. The Wall
Street Journal first reported it rose he's still playing, he's
with the Heat, but there is an investigation because of
the betting patterns. And the people out in the desert

(18:14):
keep an eye out such things, and they police the matters.
Not the FBI. They don't get they don't jump intil later,
and certainly not the NCAA. Again, that was one of
the dumbest things i'd ever heard the NCAA should be
investigating point shaving. Please leave it to the experts. And
those are the guys and gals out in Vegas. Just

(18:36):
the thought. As we head into Super Bowl Week, the
hype begins this weekend. Daryl Bird next here on six
thirty Welcome back to the Big Moonsider. Joining us now
is the editor of The Cat's Balls, a long time
friend of the show, Darryl Bird, who covered both the
road games Vandy and ut So he spent a lot
of time in Tennessee over the last couple of weeks.

(18:58):
But I want to talk for Darryl, and we have
talked before about Travis Perry and Lyon County because we
spoke Daryl after the Sweet Sixteen and when Travis Perry
sign and all that. You've become kind of the Travis
Perry expert on the UK bet and now you've got
a book out there about the Lion County. I don't know,

(19:20):
would you consider that a Cinderella story. It's a tiny school,
but boy, what a great team.

Speaker 9 (19:25):
Yeah, what a great team. You're right, you have the
ultimate Cinderella story. To think that three best friends from
kindergarten on in far western Kentucky and a school with
two hundred and seventy five students could grow up and
win the state tournament. And yeah, definitely sendery. I had
them At one point, I said, I'm I got curious.
I called the ad to Lion County. I said, just

(19:47):
for me, how many boys in the senior class?

Speaker 1 (19:51):
Yeah?

Speaker 10 (19:51):
This year?

Speaker 9 (19:52):
Thirty seven? Wow, I about fell over.

Speaker 3 (19:56):
Are you kidding?

Speaker 9 (19:57):
Thirty seven boys?

Speaker 1 (19:58):
That is so cool. It's called Lion Pride. Oh yeah, yeah,
but it's called Lion Pride Ohio n And of course
it I don't think the story starts with the state
championship in March twenty third, as you said, It starts
so many years prior to that, doesn't.

Speaker 9 (20:17):
It started in kindergarten. It's when they all started in kindergarten.
All three came together officially in the second grade on
some teeny tiny little travel team that was probably hilarious
to see. But yeah, that's that's it follows. The story
follows from their first meeting kindergarten all the way through
the championship at Reparino last year. And you and I

(20:40):
talked the last time, Yeah, and it was just pure
dumb luck on my part that I needed a story
for the basketball year book two years ago, so I
went down there that summer to do a feature on
Travis Perry for the high school section. You just broke
in King Kelly's record and I wasn't there fifteen minutes,
and I'm like, oh, my goodness, this is so much
bigger than Travis Perry and some record. And you just

(21:03):
the more you went around town, You're like, this place
is consumed in a very good way. They are consumed
with this basketball team. And ended up just following it
and then going to Whalen and then here they go,
as this state would have it, UK gets knocked out
by Oakland in Pittsburgh and I make it back in
time to cover the Final four and the championship of

(21:26):
the Sweet sixteen, and of course after that, I was like, oh,
I got to go to the celebration the next day
at Eddie Well. I got to go to the high
school the banquet at the end of view and ended
up making four or five trips down and I said,
this has to be I've always wanted to write a book,
and this seemed like the perfect time to make a
run at it.

Speaker 1 (21:42):
Really, this is your first Yes, Wow.

Speaker 9 (21:46):
I've written. I told somebody I've probably written enough to
pull a library. Yeah, never have written a book. And
it is the hardest thing you will ever matchine, It
is so hard to do, and like, where do you start?

Speaker 10 (21:57):
How do you do it? Justice?

Speaker 9 (21:59):
Oh my gosh, yeah, drive you crazy, and you work
on it and you've got your real job and you
go back and it's like, wow, I haven't been on
in the story in three weeks.

Speaker 1 (22:07):
I gotta yeah.

Speaker 9 (22:08):
Yeah, it was. It was worthy.

Speaker 1 (22:10):
But at least with this story, there's a built in timeline,
as you said, starting with whatever year they were in
second grade. And the story's so happening with Travis at
UK of course, but we're not supposed to root for
teams when we cover events, right, But who could blame
you for root? Like hell for Lion County and a

(22:31):
Sweet sixteen.

Speaker 9 (22:33):
What a story, and it has touched so many people.
I've heard people who did not know Lion County existed
but loved it because of the personal stories and also
because how many of us out there can relate to
I went to a small county school. We never had
a prayer getting out of the district, in getting to
the state and I mean it's like everybody just jumped

(22:54):
on those coattails and rode along with them for the fun.

Speaker 1 (22:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (22:57):
I remember asking the kids that after they on the tournament,
I said, you, do you have any idea how many
people are celebrating with you right now? How many people
went to small county schools who never got clothes, who
are just rejoicing with you? And I think to a
degree they did. But Ryan Perry was sitting up, their
coach was sitting over. He's just got a big smile.

Speaker 4 (23:20):
We know, we know.

Speaker 1 (23:23):
Yeah, in Lion County, is it not the smallest county
in the state.

Speaker 9 (23:28):
I don't know that.

Speaker 4 (23:29):
There's only eight thousands.

Speaker 9 (23:32):
It's very small. They couldn't they could have brought everybody
out of Eddyville not filled the lower bullet breenda that
night for the championship.

Speaker 1 (23:40):
Well, my friend Kirk Child's coach there, and that's when
I first really became aware of Lion County. Went on
to coach at Marshall County and Henry Clay, two of
the big schools. But and now everybody knows about Lyon.

Speaker 9 (23:54):
County and I got it just it just fell into place.
So for I mean, I remember talking to you and
you you were getting talking to how I had the
pleasure or the the good fortune to kind of come
full circle. Went down there to do a story on
Travis and ended up following it all the way through

(24:14):
to its conclusion, just the way it worked. But the
personal stories are Travis, You've got the whole dynamic of
growing up playing for your dad, which has its own
interesting dynamics. Jackie Reddick, the point guard who's at Florida
Gulf Coast his father passed away from cancer, was a freshman,
and how that whole team and community kind of wrapped

(24:36):
around him and protected him during that. And then Brady's Shoulders,
who's doing really well at Mercer. He started after his
third game, I think, and I said, wait a minute,
what his grandfather. There's a giant coal miner statue in Princeton,
Kentucky's providence. It's Bray's grandfather. Wow, Like you've got to

(24:58):
be kidding me. Got to dive into that whole the
family dynamic theory. Worked in the Coolema for forty three
years and he was at every game Lyon County played.
But he got cancer. He died right before the start
of the champions Law. Yeah, Yeah, that's a heartbreaker.

Speaker 1 (25:15):
Yeah. You know, there's so many very cool, so many
peripheral stories. You know, there's an expression this stuff rights itself. Well,
no it doesn't. It's a lot of work. But Darryl
put into the book Lion Pride. We're talking with Darryl
Bird of the Cat's Balls. And I remember when I
first started hearing about Travis Perry and his stats, his numbers,

(25:38):
and you know, and this is no disrespect, I immediately
thought about Irvin's step And Irvin was the kid at
Phelps who averaged fifty a game and was making national headlines.
And you know it was a great shooter, a great score,
not the greatest player, but he was in a situation
his brother was coaching him, and honestly, that's what they

(26:00):
needed from him in order to try to win games.

Speaker 4 (26:03):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (26:03):
And I know Lion County did too, But I'm watching
Lion County in the state tournament and Travis was not
as much a facilitator as he was a scorer because
they needed him to score, but he did help other
guys score. And we're seeing that now at Kentucky. People
I think were surprised to hear Mark Pope describe him
as a point guard, you know what I mean?

Speaker 9 (26:25):
Yes, yeah, because he didn't officially play the point at Lyon,
but yes, he was heavily involved in that.

Speaker 1 (26:31):
Yeah. Did you think about that, Like, here's a kid
playing for his dad, score all these points. Dad wants
his kid to score all these points, and yet that's
honestly what was best for the team, right.

Speaker 4 (26:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (26:43):
Before I ever went down there, you do get You've
heard so many of these scores, a lot of them
come out of the Eastern Kentucky Mountains. Get there fifty
a game and you get down there and you realize
it's just about scoring, and the team's not that good
and they do what they can, but they're just never
going to get very far out of the postseason. Yeah,
and you get down there and it's like, oh, they're good.

(27:06):
They're really good in a lot of a lot of
different ways. These How do you endo a three D
one scholarship out of a school with two hundred and
eighty five.

Speaker 1 (27:13):
Kids and they knew how to play?

Speaker 9 (27:15):
It's yeah, and they have been doing it from the beginning.
They traveled all over the place. And I remember talking
to Ryan one boy, and he said, for us as
long as they played well, we can care. It was
never about chasing trophies on an a U circuit. Did
we get a little better, he said, well, no matter
what tournament we go to. Once they got a little older,
he said, I requested the hardest pool that they had,

(27:36):
really because I wanted they wanted to push them to
get better, and didn't matter if they won one, loss
or drawl, you know, just just get better because of
the level of the competition. And it sure paid off,
no doubt.

Speaker 1 (27:50):
In the synopsis of the book that's on Amazon where
you can find it, by the Way Lion Pride, Yo
and Pride, the coach player relationship of the Perrys is
described as tricky without giving away the store, how tricky
did it get?

Speaker 9 (28:09):
Trickiest parts were when he Travis said, when he was
middle school, which is you know, that's when most kids
are not head and he said, he said, when you're young,
you're professor, You're trying to do your best. Things aren't
going your way. You get mad, you get angry. Who
are you going to take it out? You give it
to your dad? He said. The problem is I was

(28:30):
giving it to my dad during the game, and I
take some stupid shot. He'd throw that advisor across the
floor and I'd have it was my job. I had
to walk over, pick up the visor, walk it over,
hand it to him, and basically apologize to get back
out there. And he said this. I thought this struck
with me pretty good. He said, you know, I did
that over and over and over, and finally, when I'm

(28:53):
sitting down there at the end of the bench, I'm
realizing this ain't gonna work. I clawed Ryan Perry for said,
I don't care how good you are, you're not going
to follow this. Go sit down there at the end
and we'll just play with what we got.

Speaker 1 (29:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (29:04):
And he did that more than once. And Travis said,
you know, by the time senior year, it just took
a look. I look, I take a shot and look
over the bench, and I knew by his expression, whether
good or bad.

Speaker 1 (29:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (29:14):
Yeah, but that.

Speaker 9 (29:15):
Whole dynamic, he said, the hardest it said. It's in
Travis told me. He said, it's so unfair in high school,
no matter which team it is, if they lost the game,
it's the coach's fault. It's always the coach's fault. And
he said, I'm out there, I can have a say
in this. So I am trying as hard as I
can to make sure we don't lose A because they
won't blame he said, because they won't blame my dad

(29:38):
and B so I don't have to ride home in
the car with Dad after the loss.

Speaker 1 (29:44):
Oh man, you know, I'm flashing back on stories you
hear about guys who played for their dads, and you know,
when they get home, he's still got to take out
the trash, no matter how big a story of a
star they are. And I remember I was interviewing Corey Edmund,
who is a strength and conditioning coach at Kentucky and
the father of Leah Edmund, who arguably is the best

(30:06):
player in the history of the UK volleyball program. And
you know, and I was talking to him about his
daughter and I said something about her being a great athlete,
and he interrupted me. She is not a great athlete,
you know, And he starts talking about all the things
she needed. This is before she had graduated. I thinks
she needed to work on this and that I'm thinking, Man,

(30:26):
that's got to be tough. And he she wasn't even
playing for dad, but he was her strength and conditioning coach.
So dads see things differently, don't they.

Speaker 9 (30:37):
Yeah, But it was a little different with Travis and
Ryan because Ryan said if Travis didn't have a good game,
he never said a word. Because Travis would go out
to the garage at one o'clock in the morning shooting wow,
one two o'clock after especially after a loss. He's the
we all know how competitive once you get to hear
some of the coolest backstories. Two things with Travis that

(31:01):
really stuck out to me about his competitiveness. And I
think Ryan said in sixth grade he took over as
the middle school coach, he said, and we decided, or
I decided, we're going to jump rope for conditioning, he said.
And Travis could not jump rope to save his life,
he said. He he tripped everybody. He could about three,

(31:22):
any trip, get about three, any trip. Couldn't do it,
he said. So they're home, he said, and I'm he said,
I'm like, what is that three o'clock in the morning,
Travis is out in the driveway jumping rope.

Speaker 1 (31:34):
Wow.

Speaker 10 (31:34):
He said.

Speaker 9 (31:35):
By the next day at school, he could out jump,
He could jump rope better than.

Speaker 10 (31:38):
Anybody on the team.

Speaker 9 (31:39):
By the morning that's how competitive. He said, he just
could not tolerate not being able to jump rope. That
that's what he did. Yeah, isn't that amazing? Yet, there's
all kinds there's all kinds of stories like that.

Speaker 1 (31:54):
We'll take a break. We're talking with Darryl Bird of
the Cats Paws. He has written a book about not
just Travis Perry, what about Lion County's run to the
Sweet sixteen championship called Lion Pride, and Darrel's been busy
covering the Cats. We'll talk about that on the other
side of the break. Here, Welcome back to the Big
Moonsider coming up tomorrow. It's UK Arkansas. But I wanted
to talk to Darryl about both the Vandy and the

(32:16):
Knoxville trips you made. I've made many of them, as
you know, so have you through your career. The Vandy
game was just I felt like a bit of an
aberration for this Kentucky team. But I am still amazed
how they got out of Knoxville with a win. Tennessee
I think helped by continually jacking up threes. It's just

(32:38):
the way Pope cobbled that game plan together. I thought
was maybe the most impressive win of the year, no doubt.

Speaker 9 (32:46):
I was stunned. I went down there where fully believing they're.

Speaker 10 (32:51):
Losing this game.

Speaker 9 (32:52):
Yeah, you just on the very surface, you cannot take
away Lamont Butler. When you have to play against the Kayziegler,
he's gonna have he's gonna have somebody like we were
laughing for the game. He's gonna have a double double
twenty assistant, twenty steels. He's just he's gonna go nuts
on you if you don't have Lamant to slow him down.
And you know, right at the very beginning, oh smart move, Mark,

(33:15):
he put Jackson Robinson on him, put a tall player
on him to make it difficult. Yeah, that there's no
you take him away. You take Afo Andrew Car away.
I mean I wrote about a little bit. You started
with nine veterans, now you got six, got six veterans
and three freshmen. And you went down there into Tennessee
and everybody was here around here was like, oh my gosh,

(33:36):
you case lost to in a row. So had Tennessee.
Tennessee desperately needed to win that game.

Speaker 5 (33:41):
Home.

Speaker 9 (33:41):
You said you're going home. They don't have Butler and
car Yeah, this could be a route and they just
I wasn't. I was impressed and as much impressed late
in the game because they kept building out to like
a seven eight point lead in Tennessee would cut it back.
They get out Tennessee and there was one point where
they got it down to three. It was deafening in there.
It was, I know, rupfereno big Nation loves to you know,

(34:05):
look at us inside ruffle kind of loud it is.
It was that loud you couldn't hear yourself thinking they're
trying to come up full court press being put on.
They're trying to hang on her dear life at the end,
and they handled it. I was I was stunned and
pressed and stunned.

Speaker 1 (34:19):
At that point when it was at its loudest, didn't
somebody throw in a three.

Speaker 10 (34:25):
Something like that, something like that.

Speaker 9 (34:27):
They responded, Yeah, I know, Trent Noah's was big, and
Kobe Brays all Kobe's were, oh, yeah, we're huge.

Speaker 10 (34:34):
But yeah.

Speaker 9 (34:35):
Mark's strategy was just he was dead on put Jackson
and Jackson was I don't know if he showed on
TV whole about the last ten minutes. He was cramping
every time there was a break. He's stretching as much
as he can. He was just wearing out, trying to
hang with They.

Speaker 1 (34:48):
Showed that when he was about to shoot free throws. Yeah,
they didn't mention, but they said, yeah, he's he's trying to,
you know, stay a whole.

Speaker 9 (34:58):
And he was absolutely and that and there was no
talk of like I look up and like Kennessey's taking
forty three.

Speaker 11 (35:06):
It's what they done.

Speaker 9 (35:07):
Yeah, and I heard Coach Pope and Rick Barnes both
say the same thing. Mark basically said, yeah, but we
we purposely wanted some of those guys taking it. Basically
we wanted those guys. And Rick Barnes heard on his
radio show when I walk back out, he's talking about, Yeah,
we basically we had the wrong guys taking the shots

(35:27):
and they were there. So there was a smart move
on Mark. And then two let Amari bring the ball
up again?

Speaker 1 (35:34):
Oh yeah, yeah, that.

Speaker 9 (35:35):
Was the Yeah, you don't have Laman who's going to
bring it up for you. Let's Tennessee's Center see if
he can flow down the prail.

Speaker 1 (35:42):
Did that remind you at all because it should in
me if Sam Bowie bringing the ball up the floor
back in the day, Yeah.

Speaker 9 (35:47):
I hadn't thought about it, but yeah I did, now
that you mention it.

Speaker 1 (35:50):
Yeah, and especially against Georgetown in the final four and
eighty four, because I remember thinking, I don't think Kentucky
can be Georgetown, because I don't know that they can
handle the pressure of the guards bringing the ball off
the floor. I was there in Seattle. You might have been,
and the first time Bowie brought the ball up the floor,
I said, of course, Sam brings the ball up and

(36:12):
there's you in waiting on him at half cor lighting. Okay,
I'll cover you right here, you know, And the same
thing happens in Knoxville, didn't it.

Speaker 9 (36:20):
Yeah, it was a very very smart move.

Speaker 10 (36:22):
Yeah, very unoppressed.

Speaker 9 (36:24):
They they only had nine players that they got contribution.

Speaker 4 (36:27):
Yeah, I had to have it.

Speaker 9 (36:30):
And yeah, that was that was impressive. And because I
freely admit I did not see it, coming out with
trouble well and bringing circle three game, losing Street, coming
to Arkan flo.

Speaker 1 (36:41):
And bringing in full circle. Uh, Travis played well, and
so did Trent know it may be more so than
Travis did.

Speaker 10 (36:49):
Trent played.

Speaker 9 (36:49):
Yeah, Trent seems to be when you're watching him on
the court, Trent seems to be the most comfortable. Yeah,
and his skin out there and I did ask market
won on after the Tennessee game. So basically, you know,
what's the deal. Trent hadn't played since New Year's Eve
and now he's played. Of course, part of Andrew Carlough.
You don't see trading at six to eleven for a

(37:11):
six six as being that's why he's in the game now.
But he did get his little you know, well, next
man up right, and he played, He did all right,
evand and he did really well. Knoxville played very well.

Speaker 1 (37:21):
Well you saw him play in the Sweet sixteen or
you're there covering Travis Perry but you couldn't help. But
notice obviously Trent Noah and you know Trent was a
physical force.

Speaker 9 (37:35):
They are they are very different players, Travis and Trent.
You know they've known each other forever the roommates the UK.
Now they are different players, and that's you know, you think,
why is Trent Noah going in for Andrew Carr's absence
Because he's sixty six and he can rebound and he's physical, yes,
but he can't fill it up. He went off in
the Sweet sixteen, that miracle come back, and then they

(37:57):
had and scored. I think seventeen to the last twenty
five the force Overton right. He can go all from
three just as easily as rights Travis kan He is
Darryl bird Sit here and think, Wow, Arkansas didn't Bird
Calbury didn't even with in his direction of a scholarship.

Speaker 8 (38:12):
Wo.

Speaker 1 (38:13):
No, he is Darryl Birdy is the author of Lion Pride.
You can find it on Amazon and in other bookstores.
We buy your favorite books, Add that to your library
and learn about Travis Perry and Lion County High School's
run to the Sweet sixteenth title. Thank you, sir. We
will see you at the ball game.

Speaker 9 (38:31):
That's gonna be fun.

Speaker 1 (38:33):
Up next hour number two, when we will relive the
highlights of Kentucky Tennessee. But first we'll talk but unforgetable
guard Sean Woods. We usually speak with him on Wednesdays,
but we were bumped by the coaches show lineup, So
we will chat with Sean about what he saw down
in Knoxville, what he expects coming up when John Keller
Perry steps into Upperna tomorrow night. That's all I have

(38:53):
you on a big one side or six point thirty wlapager.

(40:40):
Welcome back to the Big Blue Insider and joining us.
Now it's a Friday, but we usually talked to Sean
Woods on Wednesday the Unforgettable Guard, But of course we
were bumped by the Coaches Show. So we will talk
with Sean about that big win over Tennessee. And there's
a game tomorrow somebody's coming back to town. But Sean,
let me start with that game. And you and I
always talk about games through the eyes the prism of

(41:03):
the point guard, and you, of course were one on
the nation's best at Kentucky. Here's a game, Sean, we're
going into this one. They didn't have one. Basically, they
didn't have any experience. They had Travis Perry, and there
were times when Amari Williams is bringing a ball up
the floor, Jackson Robinson's playing the point when that game

(41:23):
was unfolding. Were you sitting there amazed given the fact
that it's all you've played there, and they've got a
terrific point guard of their own, Tennessee does, and Kentucky's
without their number one floor general and number two floora general.
What was your reaction?

Speaker 4 (41:40):
Well, first of all, I thought that was a great
strategy of relieving pressure, letting the Mary Williams bring the
basketball up the court back in the day when I left,
when Travis was having problems getting the ball up the
court because he's playing against bigger guard. Yeah, Coach Patino

(42:00):
would do that. He would have somebody else bring the
ball up to relieve the pressure from Travis on Travis,
and then once you got into the half court, now
you ran your stuff. So you know, the great, great
move by Mark Pope of doing that to relieve some
of the pressure when he didn't have a point guard
per se. But man, you know, just the relentlessness and

(42:24):
the fortitude of these guys knowing that they were, you know,
behind the eight ball a little bit from a personnel standpoint,
And to go into Tennessee, the number one team in
the conference or another top team in the conference, one
of the top teams, and get a win on the road,
that's kudos for Coach Pope, his staff and the Wildcats. Man,
Now that that was probably to me, that may have

(42:47):
been the most impressive win under the circumstances that they've
had all season.

Speaker 1 (42:52):
Wow. Well again, you've played down there, and I was
there in Knoxville when you guys played. But I'm having
a hard time remembering while back, but I know that
it wasn't people hanging from the rafters to see the
balls play you got or was it? What do you
remember about going into Knoxville, Well, I'll tell you what.

Speaker 4 (43:11):
It has always been a hard place to play.

Speaker 10 (43:13):
You know.

Speaker 4 (43:13):
It was never not packed for sure, and you know,
but we would have our our chef fans there also,
but it was always a hard place to play. I mean,
we were playing against one of the most prolific scorers
in college basketball at the time in Allen Houston.

Speaker 1 (43:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (43:30):
So, and they got us real good our senior year,
and then we were able to get them back, you know,
and they came back in for Senior Night. Unfortunately I
didn't get to finish the gay yet, but uh, we
were back. But they were good, you know. And you know,
back then, just like now, they're saying the SEC's better

(43:50):
than ever. But every team in the SEC had first
round draft picks and there was never a tough easy out.
I don't care if you played Vanderbilt. At Vanderbilt, you know,
they were Todd millhilland Bruce Anglin. I mean, those guys
were just tough to beat. At Vanderbilt, so the league

(44:12):
has never been a slouch. I don't know why people
saying that it's better than ever. I just think that
it's just as good. And it's because these one and
Dons and things like that, you kind of put a
more of a stamp on it. But you know, SEC
basketball has always been great. You know, back then we
were getting five to six. They're saying it's gonna be
teen because of Vanderbilt, old Mississippi State, but still old

(44:37):
miss and Mississippi State was still a hard, a tough out,
especially on the roads.

Speaker 1 (44:40):
Yea, if there were I just think top to bottom sean,
it's never been as tough. I think, I think the
top half of the league back when you played, especially
on the road, yeah, brutal. But now, man, everybody's pouring
money into scheduling, into facility, into coaching staffs, and surely

(45:02):
you can appreciate that now you've never you know, broken
the bank, and some of the coaching staffs you've made.
But some of these coaches, man, they're entrepreneurs now and
their assistant are getting crazy money. It's never been like that.

Speaker 4 (45:17):
No, you're right about that, you know, And uh, it's
glorified now. Oh yeah, you know, there's more promotion as
far as basketball is concerning the SEC. And that's what's
making it different too. You know, look at old missed facilities.
Now they were the worst in the conference and now
they're pretty good. They're pumping money into it and you
see the results. Look at Mississippi State, No, and they're

(45:40):
also going to going out and getting great coaches, uh
with with with a lot of experience, especially from the
recruiting situation.

Speaker 10 (45:47):
From the recruiting situation.

Speaker 1 (45:49):
By the way, I just pulled up the box score
from that game with Tennessee to win. They got you
pretty good down in Knoxville. Allen Houston got thirty six.
They put Tennessee put five guys in double figures, scored
eighty eight points on Senior Night, But you guys scored
ninety nine. Jamal had thirty. Sean Woods played twelve minutes, folks,

(46:12):
and nothing on the stat line but zeros except Sean
You had six assists in twelve minutes. How the hell
did you do that?

Speaker 10 (46:22):
Well?

Speaker 4 (46:22):
My goal was Coach Ertino, and that I got together
because I wanted to break the single game assist record. Ah,
and that's all I was doing. I didn't even look
at the basket. I was just passing that thing and
I was on my way too. Yep, And unfortunately Jay
Price and I got into a little little tango and

(46:43):
both of us got ejected.

Speaker 1 (46:44):
Yeah yeah, he only paid played eighteen minutes. He didn't
score so anyhow, But back to the matter at hand,
you had sec basketball tough then. So they go into
Knoxville and Tennessee. I guess falling by in Kentucky was
hot hitting three pointers. Were you surprised at Rick Barnes

(47:08):
didn't do anything that? I mean, there were four they
launched forty five threes, and it killed him. I know
they all think a good shooter knows the next one's
going in. But that's what really allowed Kentucky to ease
away and win that game.

Speaker 4 (47:22):
I really think too. Also from that point guard, even
though he came back, I don't think he was He
was one hundred percent and he's the guy who he's
the straw who stirs their coffee. He stopped penetrating, you know,
he started selling for jump shots because he was scared
to stop on that leg like he normally does, going
up strong and finishing. So I thought that was a
major key in the game.

Speaker 1 (47:42):
Off of That's a good point, and eventually Zigler filed out.
He did have six assists, but only thirteen points five
of eighteen shooting in thirty five minutes and just had
the one throat, just had the one turnover me. That's
a great point. He was playing on a damaged leg,
one that he was probably favoring anyway, having dealt with

(48:03):
a major knee injury before. So it all comes back
to the point guards, doesn't it.

Speaker 4 (48:08):
That's right, and you know they didn't have one. I mean,
he was out there, but he wasn't himself, and you
know that's what made them settle. And I can see
it on Coach Barrs's face. He had no penetration to
bad never really infiltrated the paint. And when you don't
get paint touches, you know, nine times out of ten
your field goals is not gonna be very good.

Speaker 1 (48:29):
Kentucky, not just without Butler and Kirk criesa once again,
but without Andrew Carr And yeah, I knew that they
played him, but after ninety seconds he was done. I
really thought that as much as anything would keep Kentucky
from winning. But somehow, some way, I guess Brandon Garrison
had some decent minutes, not statistically, but Almanor came through.

(48:52):
Colin Chandler played well the freshman. Everything came together and
Trent and Noah. It was pretty impressive.

Speaker 4 (49:00):
Like I said before, it was probably one of the
most impressive wins that they've had all year, considering the
circumstances that they were under. As far as Angel.

Speaker 1 (49:07):
Was concerned, Yeah, well, I'll tell you what. It sets
things up interesting an interesting way because for one thing,
Kentucky fans, I think figured on a win at Vandy,
figured on the loss at Tennessee. They flipped the script.
But now they go into Saturday's game with Arkansas. We'll
talk about that on the other side of the break
with Shawn Wood's The Unforgettable Guard. Here on six point

(49:29):
thirty WLAP. Welcome back to the Big Blue Insider. We're
talking with the Unforgettable Guard, Shawn Woods. As Jersey hangs
in the rafters of rup Sean, You've been a head
coach at a number of places. I wonder at the
level where you were coaching, did you ever hear Booze
rain down on you when you were introducing an arena? Oh?

Speaker 4 (49:50):
No, doubt about it. I mean the schools I was that,
you know, Southern and Gramley one of the biggest rivalries
and all the college sports. Yeah, you know you got
that one. You know, you go to Tech the South
and plus everywhere I've been we were the top one
of the top teams in the league.

Speaker 10 (50:04):
So you know, it was always.

Speaker 4 (50:07):
A big to do and and uh when our teams
came into somebody else's place. So yeah, that's that's that's
that's yeah, I'm used to that.

Speaker 1 (50:15):
I'm so do you think John Caliperrys, this is going
to be a different brand of booing though, isn't it.

Speaker 4 (50:23):
Listen, it's not what it's the way he left is
how I'm looking at this more so than you know.
We are at Kentucky and we got to appreciate this
man won a national championship for us. You know, he's
he's made history for us. He's done probably one of
the most miraculous jobs, uh, in all of college basketball

(50:45):
as far as being a college basketball coach for us.
While he was here, he became a Hall of Fame
inductee while he was our coach. You know, he's won
a national championship as our coach. He's one of the
first to get a lifetime contract, which I don't understand,
but as our coach, and he set the standard as

(51:06):
far as getting the best. I mean, we've always been
known to getting the top players in the country McDonald
all Americans, but he took it to another level. He
he modernized Kentucky basketball to what it is today. And
we got to be thankful for that, you know what
I mean. Now how he left, you know, the last
few seasons. That's the only thing that that's the one
of the biggest knocks has been being a coach anywhere

(51:30):
is staying too long, you know, and and sooner or
later people forget, you know, the things that you did.
And first of all, you make them spoil. You get
them spoiled. And then when they're not getting that, you know,
they turned on you a little bit. And you know
that's unfortunate in our profession, but as part of our profession.

(51:52):
But man, you can't knot you know what John cali
Perry did because he you know, during his time, we
were still one most relevant college basketball program in America.

Speaker 1 (52:03):
You played on at a time when the Kentucky Arkansas
Series was about to become the really cool rivalry in
the SEC, if not the country with Nolan Richardson, I
don't consider Arkansas a rival right now. Yes, it's a
conference rival, but it's not like it used to be.

(52:27):
And people, well he went to our archs Ruight, No
he did not. He did go within the league, that's true.
But I mean, do you consider Arkansas that way? I
still think Louisville, Tennessee And people like to say.

Speaker 4 (52:38):
Dude, Louisville, right, Costatino went to Louisville. Okay, So now
John Caliperry goes to Arkansas. Well, it's not about going
to Arkansas. It's John Caliperry, right, So we're going to
be in rival with John Caliperry more so than being
in a rival with the institution of the University of Arkansas.

Speaker 1 (52:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (52:59):
Yeah, that's how this thing is gonna work planning out.
It's not about you know, history and this and that.
It's about and it's so new that it's burning hot,
it's flaming and because of who it is as a coach.

Speaker 1 (53:15):
Yeah, you're right. How surprised are you assuming you are
that Arkansas has struggled the way it has given the
recruits he took there given the kids from Kentucky you
transferred there starting with a point guard DJ Wagner. But
Big Z and boy du Sierro looks incredible this year.

(53:35):
But they have been probably the biggest surprise in a
disappointing way in the sec.

Speaker 4 (53:43):
I'm I'm I'm surprised, but I'm not surprised. I don't
think his team's very good. I'm gonna be honest with you.
From a talent standpoint, I don't think Z is the answer.
You know, for his size, he doesn't rebound to the
find like he needs to. I think he gives up
on a lot of plays. He's not a guy that
you make him the main stay and expect to have

(54:03):
miraculous results. So from that standpoint, I am not surprised,
you know, I just think from a personnel standpoint, he's
not big enough inside, I don't think he can compete
on the glass like he would like. And you know
he had he was. He's really depending on a freshman

(54:24):
point guard again, and that wasn't getting him too far.
And unfortunately Boogiey Flans hurt. But when he lost that kid,
you know, it may have walked him up up a
little bit because they won right after that. Yeah, you know,
let's let's not get it twisted now, John Caliperri can coach.
I mean, you don't become a Hall of Famer now.
I just think he kind of lost the sizzle a

(54:45):
little bit. I think that, you know, while his last
few years here, you know, it wasn't about coaching, I
think he got away from what got him here and
what got him to the success that he's had. And
you know, sometimes people get humbled and you know, like
I said before, this this things, you know, it's different,
it's evolving, and it's a new way to do with things.
And I think right now, you know, he's trying to

(55:09):
play catch up now and trying to figure out how
he can, you know, get it back and get that
mojo back that he had years ago.

Speaker 1 (55:16):
I think people forget that the first of all. They
forget some people forget the glory years he had here,
his first six years minus see of course, you know
Neurlans Noel, that was a difficult injury and they'd never recovered.
But his best team, Sean and you know this as
a you're probably your best teams were combinations of that

(55:38):
young talent and veterans. Yeah, and you think about the
Harrison Twins came back that made that twenty fifteen team
so powerful. His first couple teams at Kentucky, that first
team he had, which I still think was his best
uh at Patrick Patterson and a couple other Vets along
with Wall and Cousins and Bledsoe, And I felt like

(56:00):
he kind of got away from that for one reason
or another. Do you remember it that way?

Speaker 4 (56:06):
Well, I wasn't around as much, you know what I'm saying,
But I can just tell. But you know, if every
team is different, no matter the personnel and how talented
you are, and you're not gonna win a national championship
every year, but he was in the mix every year,
and that's all you can ask for. And then you
got to have a little luck in the NCAA tournment
here and there. And he will always put himself in

(56:26):
a position where he had a chance. Except for the
last few years, I thought recruiting went down. I thought
he settled for some guys that wasn't, you know, capable
of getting a job done. And I think that's where
it left. You know, Then he lost some key staff members,
you know, and all that stuff plays the part and

(56:46):
right now, I think he's just searching. And you know,
when you have bad seasons as a coach, you know
you're only as good as your assistant, and you need
great assistance. I don't care who how good you are.
And sometimes that happens. You know what I'm saying, You
ain't you don't have that same support. You know, you
don't have that same backing. And I think that that

(57:08):
happened with coach Bettino too, his latter years at Louisville,
not having guys that he could trust you, and you
see what happens, Things fall through the crack.

Speaker 1 (57:16):
But you know, I think it's interesting you say that
because I'm sure you heard well, maybe you have or
not again you've you were away and came back, But
I kept carrying that Cali Perry who doesn't listen to
his assistance. Have you ever heard that?

Speaker 4 (57:30):
I've heard that a lot. I've heard that a whole bunch.
And sometimes, you know, like I tell people all the time,
John Caliperry is human, right, And sometimes you know, just
because he's a coach that he tries to tell players
to not dwell in your success. I think he dwelled
in his success.

Speaker 1 (57:47):
Huh, interesting. Yeah, you're right, do as I say, not
as I do. That means a hot sometimes got a
few minutes left with Sean Woods, the unforgettable guard Caliperry
coming to town with Arkansas tomorrow night, a bug all else,
Kentucky needs to obviously win this game Sean and protect

(58:08):
the home court from here on, right, Yeah, they.

Speaker 4 (58:10):
Have to in order to stay, you know, have a
chance to stay at top of the league. You got
to win all your games at home because you got
some a few tough ones on the road that's coming up.
So you got to make sure that you take care
of business and rut.

Speaker 1 (58:23):
Yeah, as I let you go. I went and looked
up the roster of that twenty fifteen team that was
nearly perfect. Yeah, they had Karl Anthony Towns, they had
Booker on the bench, they had Uless Tree Lyles. But
you know, Dacary Johnson was a sophomore, Marcus Lee sophomore.
Who else was on that team? The Harrison Twins, And

(58:45):
in this day and age, those are veterans.

Speaker 10 (58:48):
Right, no doubt about it.

Speaker 1 (58:50):
And then when you mix it all together with a freshman,
that was a team that could have and maybe should
have made history. So yeah, it takes a mix now,
not just the one and done. But that's easier said
than done in this day and age, isn't it.

Speaker 4 (59:03):
You are exactly right, I mean, and look at the
years from twenty fifteen on the teams that won the
national championship. Yep, yep, you know, look at Virginia that
that that's the prime example of not having a bunch
of two roh guys, just had some a mixture of
veterans and players that had gone through the you know,
the system, and by the time they got this senior year,

(59:27):
they were really good.

Speaker 1 (59:28):
Yeah yeah, well, I mean Villanova, the teams and national
titlers for Nova exactly were exactly were a good mix
and it's all that balancing act. Now, Sean Woods, the
Unforgettable Guard, joins us every week. His jersey hangs in
the rafters. Are up, coach, Thanks so much, and enjoy your.

Speaker 10 (59:46):
Weekend, okay, Dick, you too, buddy.

Speaker 1 (59:49):
And up next we relive the highlights of Kentucky, Tennessee
as we head into the weekend here on six thirty WLAP.
Welcome back to the Big Moon Cider. So it's Kentucky
Arkansas tomorrow night. We all know that Wildcats coming off
a huge win down in Knoxville short handed. But boy
did the Wildcats hit their shots, especially when they needed

(01:00:09):
to most including free throws. Not great at the free
throw line, but Oway nailed a couple with the game
on the line literally and Kentucky escapes Knoxville with yet
another win. So I thought going into the weekend, we
would relive the highlights from the UK Radio network as
Tom Leach and Jack Gibbons called the action, the Cats

(01:00:31):
and the Balls. Kentucky winning for a third straight year
down in Knoxville.

Speaker 3 (01:00:37):
Down the right side, puts it between his legs, turns
his back to Ziegler, gets Ray up open, three ball
in the air.

Speaker 8 (01:00:43):
It's good.

Speaker 3 (01:00:45):
Pass to the top to Williams, gives it to Holland
or a right back to Williams, over to Robinson, less side,
three god two threes for Kentucky. Robinson drives it up
the right side, gets it to the trailer Williams. Robinson
gets it back, it curls into the circle, steps back.
He made two of them already up deep on the
right side. Williams dribbles over to the left, goes down

(01:01:05):
the lane, hooks it out to the right corner. Almon
Or wide open.

Speaker 12 (01:01:09):
Yes, well, that is excellently executed.

Speaker 11 (01:01:13):
Our fence.

Speaker 3 (01:01:14):
It's between his legs, goes to his right down the
lane with a runner off the glass. It's good boy,
just beats the clock defense set.

Speaker 8 (01:01:21):
Williams fires to Robinson left wing. Three in the air.

Speaker 10 (01:01:23):
Good.

Speaker 11 (01:01:24):
Finally found a way to get open again.

Speaker 8 (01:01:26):
Baseline fires a diagonal pass to the left wing.

Speaker 3 (01:01:29):
Almonor's three is good again. Penetration and three no rebounded
by Robinson. Faith slides right eighteen foot or gone across
the Brea. Brandon feeds it over the right corner. Almon
Or open three, money boy, They keep leaving them open
twenty two Kentucky by four.

Speaker 8 (01:01:50):
Almanor fees it down.

Speaker 3 (01:01:52):
Lower the pick and rolling a dunk by Garrison off
the roll.

Speaker 8 (01:01:55):
When they get it count to Garrison.

Speaker 3 (01:01:57):
Brea goes back door, makes the catch and dunkson coming
in All right, Baseline and here's almon Or at the top.
Gives it to Braya. Raya penetrates up with a fifteen
foot a good out a way by tipping it and
getting the rebound cross court pass intercepted by oh Way,
drives and dunks it for the lead a huge were
passed to oh way, oh wait, driving baseline left, cut off, bounce,

(01:02:17):
pass over to Williams out to almon Or straight away
three ball money or Hansley alman Or heaving forward, A
couple of crossovers slides to his left, get a shoot
a contested three and it bounces in about six to
eleven akpara pray, A couple of crossovers goes by a
para gets in deep rap around, feed to Williams. Thanks,
happing in just ahead of the shot clock buzzer. Robinson

(01:02:40):
over to Noah, floats at to Williams five to shoot him.
Williams backing down to Williams turns jump hook gun nice
picking off the left wing goes through the lane of
all stock loose and Kentucky comes out with it and
Noah may have knocked it loose. Breyer scoops it up
over to Robinson, open left, winning for three.

Speaker 13 (01:02:55):
Got it.

Speaker 12 (01:02:56):
I just love how cool, calm and collected Kentucky has
been on offense.

Speaker 3 (01:03:03):
Dan's Madison drills it all the way to the right corner,
shut his back to Zigler, fall away fifteen foot are
good Jackson Robinson with sixteen not left Garrison being manhandled
using his arm. Here's Noah straight away.

Speaker 8 (01:03:17):
Three Trent, yes, Trent, don't add away. Young fella jumps
up to Perry. Perry he three right side.

Speaker 3 (01:03:25):
Rentals out no good, oh Way rebounds follows. God Robins said,
taking the handoff down the lane, puts it up, No
tap in by Williams.

Speaker 8 (01:03:33):
But oh Way throws it to Brian has skipped off.

Speaker 3 (01:03:38):
His hands would have picked up by no Honey drives
in stores hands up, heads up, right out of his hands.

Speaker 8 (01:03:43):
He's got it back.

Speaker 3 (01:03:44):
He blows by Milicic goes in and dunks it in
and hits the deck hard.

Speaker 11 (01:03:49):
He jumps right back.

Speaker 3 (01:03:51):
Sixty eight sixty three Kentucky Williams drives it left, hands
it to Breya long three.

Speaker 11 (01:03:57):
That's the way to get it back. That's the way
to get it back right now.

Speaker 3 (01:04:00):
Two of five tonight, seventy seven percent on the season
coming in.

Speaker 8 (01:04:08):
It's good, little body English there lean across.

Speaker 11 (01:04:13):
Pretty simple. Gotta make.

Speaker 8 (01:04:18):
That he does. We hear a little gold, big blue
let that.

Speaker 3 (01:04:24):
Wow, it's getting louder too, God Sansley almond Or waving his.

Speaker 8 (01:04:30):
Arms for more.

Speaker 11 (01:04:33):
Just give me one, baby, Just give me one, two.

Speaker 3 (01:04:35):
Shots away, one dribble. It's in the air, and it's
good God, it's in the air, beauty.

Speaker 12 (01:04:44):
You gotta put a little pressure in the back court.
Make him use some time off the clock. You don't
want to let.

Speaker 8 (01:04:50):
Him throw it long. That's what Kentucky's doing.

Speaker 11 (01:04:52):
You gotta make him use up some time.

Speaker 8 (01:04:56):
Get into the bar. Back to Ziegler.

Speaker 3 (01:04:57):
Ball's knock loose, He picks it up, shoots the three
off right wing.

Speaker 8 (01:05:00):
It's no good.

Speaker 3 (01:05:01):
Williams Graham's another rebound, throws it into front court and
the Wildcats get a win in Knoxville for the third year.

Speaker 1 (01:05:09):
In a row.

Speaker 3 (01:05:10):
It hadn't happened since two thousand and six. They did
it tonight, and they did it shorthanded good and that's gracious.

Speaker 1 (01:05:17):
Jack Gibbons and Tom Leach on the UK Sports Network,
and I've said it many many times. Two things. Number One,
Jack Gibbons loves to see the Wildcats beat Tennessee. That
was the art rival when he grew up. That's the
art rival when he was in high school, when he
signed to be a Wildcat, when he played for Kentucky,
there was no UFL rivalry. They didn't play it was Tennessee.

(01:05:41):
Jack loves to beat the balls. It wasn't easy when
he was there because back then at the same time,
Tennessee had Bernie and Ernie. But Kentucky knocks off Tennessee.
You could hear the glee in Jack's voice sitting alongside Tom.
He loves to see these UK players knock down shots

(01:06:01):
because that's what he did. He was a knockdown shooter.
And as he said on my show a week or
two ago, he is an unabashed fan. He said. He
credits and appreciates the fact that the network and UK
both realize that unlike a lot of people who might
have taken over at the job when our friend, the
great Mike Pratt passed away, Jack's a fan first and

(01:06:26):
then a broadcaster, never claimed to be a journalist. So
he roots unabashedly for those cats, especially when they win
a game like that, knocking down shots at the arch
rival for him, at any rate, his favorite art rival, Tennessee.
So I hope you enjoyed that, all right. Coming up next,
we're going to hear more about a photographer here in

(01:06:47):
town who's terrific. He's done a lot of great sports work,
and this is kind of the same but different. It's
kind of tough talking about photography on the radio, but
you'll know what I'm talking about when we chat with
Mark Nielsen. That's next year on six thirty. Welcome back
to you. The Big Blue Insider joining us now is
a longtime friend and a guy who actually has been

(01:07:07):
on the show before. It's been a while, but I
see Mark Corneilsen's face in the newspaper online, you see
his work, You know his work very likely. He is
a terrifically talented photographer who has you know, shot dozens
and hundreds of ball games. But he's become known as
the pre eminent, in my opinion, portrait photographer here in

(01:07:28):
town for a number of reasons. H Mark, welcome back
to the show.

Speaker 10 (01:07:31):
First of all, yeah, thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 (01:07:34):
We talked to Mark about some other types of portraits
that he has taken, and again you've seen his work.
He has shot Kentucky coaches and players. It's the black
and white photos that you might see in the paper
or the pop up online, really stark contrast, always black
and white. You know one thing I also noticed, Mark,
do your subjects in those photos ever smile?

Speaker 10 (01:07:58):
Well?

Speaker 14 (01:08:00):
But with the I used to tell my bosses of
the Herald Leader because they asked me the same question.

Speaker 10 (01:08:04):
Really, somebody has that magic.

Speaker 14 (01:08:06):
If they have that magic Johnson smile, then you use
it all day. But I'd say still, the majority of
people who are getting a portrait made are not super
comfortable at that moment, So trying to get a smile
out of him sometimes is more of a challenge.

Speaker 1 (01:08:19):
Yeah. One of my faves was Colena Azabukie. You took
a preseason photo of him, and of course he had
that incredible physique and man, his muscles in front of
your camera and your life just rippled. But I don't
know what you were. Do you remember telling me the
story about how he pumped himself up for that photo.

Speaker 14 (01:08:39):
Yeah, well, he when he found out what we were doing,
and he saw a quick sample we were doing, and
you know, obviously the sample was not him, it was
somebody else sitting in. So he saw the potential for
the shadows. He broke down, started doing a few push ups,
started running around the concourse a few times. So I
was you know, they're all a collaboration. You know, you

(01:09:00):
need that, you need everybody involved. And so when they're
going that far. I know they're involved.

Speaker 1 (01:09:04):
I think somebody had told him that Chuck Hayes might
have looked a little bit better that day.

Speaker 14 (01:09:08):
And there's a lot of banter going on.

Speaker 1 (01:09:11):
For sure, he was not going to be outdone. But
one of the reasons we wanted to talk to Mark
was because now you've got a new way of doing things,
a new style that those We did a TV story
on Mark when he was taking those black and whites,
because the camera you use was something out of the
forties and now you're using a style that goes even

(01:09:33):
older than the forties.

Speaker 10 (01:09:34):
Right, Yeah, we're back.

Speaker 14 (01:09:36):
We're back to the eighteen hundreds now with this new uh,
with this new challenge, I'm trying.

Speaker 10 (01:09:40):
To work out what is it called?

Speaker 1 (01:09:43):
What is that?

Speaker 14 (01:09:43):
What it's called wet plate colodean is the technical term,
but most people know it by the term of ten type,
and it's the way photos were taken all through the
Civil War. Every picture you see of Abraham Lincoln was
shot this way, although his were a lot time shot
on glass. It's the same process they used to shoot
them all on glass. But what was happening was the

(01:10:06):
Civil War soldiers were wanting to mail their photos home
to their families, and the photos weren't making it because
the glass was breaking before they got home. So a
guy in eighteen fifty one figured out how to do
it on metal, and that was the way photography was
done for about.

Speaker 10 (01:10:19):
The next forty years before film was invented.

Speaker 1 (01:10:22):
Yeah, so when you're watching a movie that's set in
that period and they had that big box of a
camera and everybody's got a hold perfectly still and they
pull the thing off the lens, those were similar kinds of.

Speaker 10 (01:10:36):
Photography, exactly the same.

Speaker 14 (01:10:39):
And sometimes you would even see somebody holding stuff up
that would cause an explosion, and that was their version
of a flash at the time. Because these are very
not light sensitive plates compared to today's cameras and even film.
You know, you're used to buy film in different speeds
based on where you were shooting, and you started at
one hundred and went up to thirty two hundred or more.

(01:10:59):
These plates are one wow, so not a lot of
You need a lot of lights. So people were having
to hold still either hold still for a you know,
several sometimes up to thirty seconds. Other times you hit
him with a flash, which is what I'm doing.

Speaker 10 (01:11:12):
It's a lot more instant.

Speaker 1 (01:11:14):
Yeah. Well, one of the ones you've posted on social
media is a great image of Devin Burke's you Can't
Catch Her. Let's bring this back to sports, and he's
standing in the stadium in uniform, he's got his catcher's
gear on, the tools of ignorance and he's just looking
out toward the field to his left. And just given

(01:11:36):
the style of this photography, it's it's black and white.
I won't say it's harsh, but there's a lot of contrast,
and you know, it almost looks like it's a gray
kind of cloudy day. But that's the style, isn't it.

Speaker 14 (01:11:49):
Yeah, I mean these that you know that there's not
a lot of latitude as far as exposure and the
different tones these things could see back then, yea. And
he was actually about a two second picture there, so
we knew. And you know, that's looks like it could
have been shot in the Bay Bruce era, you know,
as far as there really are timeless And that's what
drew me back to it, you know. I just I
had somebody tell me at the Lexaban Camera Club once

(01:12:09):
that they loved my work, but that I seem to
be going backwards.

Speaker 10 (01:12:12):
And I said, about as quickly as possible.

Speaker 1 (01:12:14):
So why did you pose Devin like that? Because I've
told this story before. We did a TV story on you,
and at the end of it, you had me sit
for a picture, not of this type, but of the
previous but the older camera, and we went down to
the TV set and I thought, I would, you know,
sit at the anchor desk and pose like an idiot?
And you had me turn around with my back to

(01:12:35):
the cameras and put my feet up on the railing.
And I asked you later, you know, why did you
pose me like that? And you said, I don't remember.
You said, because that's you, my personality.

Speaker 10 (01:12:46):
So yeah, go ahead, go ahead, now, go ahead.

Speaker 1 (01:12:49):
I was gonna say, you clearly put a lot of
thought into into these poses. Now do you usually make
the suggestions or does your subject make suggests? Since how
does that work?

Speaker 10 (01:13:01):
You know?

Speaker 14 (01:13:02):
Like I said, it's always a group decision. But a
lot of times I'm my wheels start turning as soon
as I know that person's coming, especially if I have
any familiarity with them, which you know a lot of
the athletes, of course I did, but with even normal people,
normal people, non athletes, you know that people like ourselves, right, Yeah.
You know, while I'm sitting there talking to them and
I'm giving them some of the history and telling them things,

(01:13:23):
I'm watching their mannerisms. I'm seeing what they're doing with
their hands with you know, just in general, especially if
I don't know them, and sometimes in the middle of
our conversation, I'll say, hold it, that's what we're doing
right there. You know, they'll just stop and they'll have
their hand a certain way, or they'll be looking a
certain way because otherwise, like I said, like the small
in front of a camera, people stiffing up. Yeah, and

(01:13:44):
so you know, I've gotten pretty good with the banter myself,
you know. So you're talking them through, You're trying to
get them comfortable really quick, because you know, really photography
is you're dipping into somebody's life for you know, maybe
a half hour probably less, and you got to get
that shot and go, especially in the old journalism world
where you told you had five minutes with somebody, you know,
So trying to read people quickly and get something that

(01:14:06):
really says something about them is what I'm trying to do.
Show off their personality and a lot of times, those
fake smiles, aren't it.

Speaker 1 (01:14:12):
Oh no, And you know people in mine I always.

Speaker 14 (01:14:16):
Liked the intensity of the athletes, you know, so I
told that. I used to tell my bosses at the paper.
I was like, you know, they want to look cool,
and I want to make them look cool. And you know,
them with a big cheesy smile on their face acting
like they're fighting over a trophy or something is not
what they want.

Speaker 4 (01:14:32):
You know.

Speaker 14 (01:14:32):
They want to look like they're getting ready to come
down to the railroad tracks on you.

Speaker 1 (01:14:35):
So what were you trying to say about Devin Burks
the way you posed him?

Speaker 14 (01:14:41):
Well, he was just he's a very laid back kid,
you know, as far as but also very present. You know,
he was into all of it.

Speaker 10 (01:14:47):
You know.

Speaker 14 (01:14:47):
We did about three different pictures and we did a
real tight one with him with his mask on. We
did a three quarter with him with his arms crossed,
you know, which just looks cool, but it's also and
then I was like, we need to let this picture
breathe a little bit, you know, I wanted some more
environment in it, and so just putting him off to
the side and you know, having him you know a
lot of times while we were talking. He was standing

(01:15:08):
almost just like that. So I was like, that's exactly
what we want. But let's go over here and do it,
because I just want to fill in that background a
little more and give some atmosphere.

Speaker 1 (01:15:15):
Yeah, well it'd work, brother. I appreciate it, really, really impressive.
It's on again. It's on Mark's Facebook page if you
want to go Mark Cornelis and c R N E L.
S O N. You got several pictures of Santa Claus,
Jack Patty.

Speaker 14 (01:15:30):
Yeah, well, Jack Patty's been a he he loves the
process and you know, especially as as Santa, so we've
photographed him several times. And I'm actually going to be
a big part of a photo show at the end
of this year called the Louisville Photo Biennial, and I'm
going to have a show up in Frankfurt in the
Grand Theater, big list of people that I want to

(01:15:51):
put in there. You know, I want it to be
your everyday guy, civilian if you will. But also I've
just got too much history with a lot of the
athletes and even some that I don't know, but I've
been around him so much. I'm like, I think this
will work. So I've got you know, I want to
get Goose Gibbings in there. I want to get Derek
Ramsey in there.

Speaker 10 (01:16:08):
You know, I'm trying to get hold of Tim Couch. Also.

Speaker 14 (01:16:11):
I have some old high school pictures of Tim Couch
I think he'd probably love to have at some point.
But you know, I want to mix in some of
that history with with you know, your your with everybody else.

Speaker 10 (01:16:21):
I think it'd be kind.

Speaker 14 (01:16:21):
Of a cool also a document of Kentucky because the
cool thing about this process I'm doing now is these
pictures will last one hundred and seventy five years.

Speaker 1 (01:16:30):
Oh my gosh, wow.

Speaker 14 (01:16:31):
And they say this is the most photographed generation ever
that will have nothing to show for it in twenty
years because it's all on a device.

Speaker 1 (01:16:37):
That's right, That's exactly right. Do you You mentioned Jack
and Derek and Tim, and you've shot, as I said,
scores of athletes and games. I guess you don't get
to do that as much. Do you miss that? Because
your your your work now is people posing as opposed
to action photos, which is one reason I know young

(01:16:57):
photographers like to go towards sports to capture action. Do
you miss that?

Speaker 14 (01:17:03):
I miss it sometimes, but I don't miss it. As
you know, I was able to do so many amazing
things when I was at the paper in Cuba's and
some Super Bowls and other things that I just couldn't
be happier with the way that ended up. And especially
with let's say, UK basketball. It's such a crowded floor
down there, yep. And yes, I could get a seat,
but I'd rather just let some new guy who really

(01:17:24):
wants to be there have that seat and experience what
I did, you know. So I go every now and then,
and if I do, sometimes I'll go and I'll take
one of these old cameras and shoot with it just
to see what I can get. And it's fun and
that kind of thing. And every now and then I
help out athletics if they need another shooter, you know,
to do the real Yeah. In general, I just don't.
I don't feel like I need to crowd up that baseline,

(01:17:45):
Lenk give it.

Speaker 10 (01:17:45):
Let the young guys have it.

Speaker 1 (01:17:47):
Do you aspire to take any kind of photo of
Mark Pope, any kind of portrait?

Speaker 10 (01:17:54):
Oh?

Speaker 14 (01:17:54):
Absolutely. And the funny thing is that picture of Mark
Pope getting off the bus in ninety six where he's
holding up the trophy that that was my photo.

Speaker 10 (01:18:01):
Oh really, So I'm.

Speaker 14 (01:18:03):
Already ready for him because I told Ded Moore, I said, look,
that's my photo. So Mark already owes me. You know,
wait that picture. That picture was his signature when he
first got here, so.

Speaker 1 (01:18:14):
Which they recreated when he came in.

Speaker 10 (01:18:16):
Off the bus right right. So I felt I felt
proud that day.

Speaker 14 (01:18:20):
And you know when I see the kids holding up
the holding it up in the in the eruption zone,
I'm like, yeah, I love that. So I told her
I was going to wait till the Mark Pope waves
kind of subsided, but of course that's not going to
probably be till after the season.

Speaker 10 (01:18:33):
So I'm just waiting my turn on that one.

Speaker 1 (01:18:36):
Anytime it happens, it'll be great. Is Mark Cornelissen. Cornelison
ten Types is the company. But go to Facebook if
you want to see what his work looks like. Mark,
always a pleasure, you know. I love your work. Congratulations
and best of luck.

Speaker 10 (01:18:49):
Thanks so much, Dick. I appreciate you.

Speaker 1 (01:18:52):
It really is great what Mark does. This style of
photography and the style that he was doing before with
the old nineteen forty whatever cam was great as well,
just just something different because there are just millions of
images out there and Mark has taken this the standard
sports images through the years. What came up with? Something new,

(01:19:12):
something different, and I urge you to check it out.
Thanks to Mark, Thanks to Sean Woods, thanks to Darryl Bird.
That's a good night from the garage in Lexington.

Speaker 6 (01:19:20):
These pretzels are making me thirsty.

Speaker 3 (01:19:24):
These pretzels are making me thirsty.

Speaker 11 (01:19:27):
No no, see that's no good. You don't know how
to act.

Speaker 13 (01:19:31):
These are pretzels. I'm making me thirsty.

Speaker 8 (01:20:04):
Nata

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2025-01-31 - BBI

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