March 12, 2025 • 33 mins
In this episode, John J. Miller, director of the Dow Journalism Program at Hillsdale College, shares his journey from Washington D.C. to Michigan, his experiences at Hillsdale, and his reflections on education, parenting, and journalism. He discusses the unique environment at Hillsdale, the beauty of Key West, and the historical significance of Fort Jefferson. Miller also offers insights into the challenges of parenting adult children and emphasizes the importance of seeking out reliable news sources in today's media landscape. The Karol Markowicz Show is part of the Clay Travis & Buck Sexton Podcast Network - new episodes debut every Wednesday & Friday.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hi, and welcome back to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio.
There was a piece in the Free Press a few
days ago that I immediately sent to my fifteen year
old daughter. It was called How I Became a Wife,
and I was already thinking of doing a monologue on
it when a listener, Hi, Amy, sent it to me too,
(00:23):
So obviously it's a fit. The writer Larissa Phillips writes, quote,
my parents weren't that extreme, but they still wanted to
take a sledgehammer to social norms. They both adhered to
the blank slate idea that differences between men and women
were socially constructed and a little tweaking would solve the
problem of disparate outcomes. My mother dressed my sister and
(00:46):
I in overalls and Earth's shoes, and if we got
baby dolls or tea sets, it was with a hint
of disapproval. Why would girls play it being mothers or
wives when they could sit on the Supreme Court or
fly to the moon.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
When I was in the sixth my.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Mother gave me a framed print that said a woman
needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle. End quote.
I'll say that does actually sound quite extreme. But the
part that I completely can't wrap my mind around is
that you can only sit on the Supreme Court or
fly to the moon if you aren't married and don't
(01:22):
have kids. That's the separation for me. I'll say that
my parents also weren't like, you should definitely get married
and have children. I don't remember them ever saying that
to me. But the truth is that my career that
they did want me to have took off when I
got married. It was just easier to do what I
(01:43):
wanted to do with a support system, and not just financial,
although that definitely helped, but emotional. It's why married people,
both men and women, earn more money. We've been through
this on the show in many pre episodes. But the
reason that I sent this article to my fifteen year
(02:04):
old daughter is that I see a lot of the
messaging that she gets out in the world. It's a
lot of the worst and you don't need men. All
you need is a great job, and you can only
have that if you aren't married and don't have kids.
I particularly loved the way Phillips tells their story. She
was told she was going to love one thing, and
(02:26):
then she loved another.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
She writes quote.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
I assumed i'd go back to work when our son
was a few months old, as seemed to be the
norm in New York City. But this turned out to
be impossible. First, I didn't earn enough as an editor
to justify daycare or nanny. But even more importantly, leaving
that soft little creature who fits so snugly and easily
into my arms, who burrowed his face into my neck
(02:52):
and slept against my chest as if he belonged there,
felt deeply in my bones wrong. So I stayed home.
End quote. We lived in the Upper West Side of
Manhattan when we had our first child, the fifteen year
old I sent the article to. I was writing occasionally,
but definitely not professionally yet. I would occasionally write something
that got printed and I got paid, but it was.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Nowhere near a career.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
So I had this wide open schedule to snuggle with
her and walk around and just be free and focus
on her. And it was a really magical time. And
I met other moms with babies about the same age
who had successful careers, lawyers, doctors, who all they wanted
to do was stay home with their babies. They loved
(03:36):
their jobs, but there was nothing like being home with
that baby. It's just instinct. Here's what else I loved
about this piece that the fact that you stayed home
with your children does not mean you'll never work again.
That doesn't mean you can't also have a career. It
just means that if you have the opportunity to lean
(03:56):
into this very short time of having small children and
to really be with them, take it. Phillips and her
husband end up having more kids and moving upstate and
having a farm, and she talks about all the hard
work she does, it's not all baby snuggling. But then
she writes, quote, I stand by a lot of the
feminist lessons I learned as a child. Of Course women
(04:19):
can sit on the Supreme Court and be astronauts or
physicists or lawyers. Of Course we can survive without men.
But getting married, being a wife, being a mother is
not a step back in time or a surrendering of ground.
It's actually the best part of my life.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
End quote.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
What I would say about that is that the feminist
lessons do leave out that last part. And it's important
to me that my daughter understands that you can be anything.
You can be many things, but I can already predict
what you will love being most. Thanks for listening. Coming
up my interview with John J.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Miller.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
But first, after more than a year of war, terror
and pain in Israel, all of Israel is broken hearted
after learning of the tragic deaths of the Beebis children
who were held hostage in Gaza, and so many are
still hurting throughout the Holy Land, where the need for
aid continues to grow. The International Fellowship of Christians and
Jews has supported and continues to support families of hostages
(05:20):
and other victims of the October seventh terror attacks. With
your help, IFCJ has provided financial and emotional help to
hostages and their families, and to those healing and rebuilding
their broken homes and broken bodies.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
But the real work is just beginning.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Your gift will help provide critically needed support to families
in Israel whose lives continue to be destroyed by terror
and uncertainty as Israel remains surrounded by enemies. Give a
gift to bless Israel and her people by visiting SUPPORTIFCJ
dot org. One word SUPPORTIFCJ dot org, or call eight
(06:01):
eight eight for eight eight IFCJ. That's eight eight eight
for eight eight if CJ. Welcome back to the Carol
Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
My guest today is John J. Miller.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
John is director of the Now Journalism Program at Hillsdale College.
He also writes for National Review, The Wall Street Journal,
and other publications. He has two weekly podcasts, The Great
Books and The Bookmonger.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Hi, John, So nice to have you on.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
Hi Carol, thanks for having me. I love your show.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Well, thanks so much. You know, I'm a huge fan
of yours.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
I got to know you while I was at Hillsdale
last year, and I still talk about Hillsdale all the time,
like it comes up frequently. I had no idea just
how much Hillsdale was the center of the universe.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Actually, I'm blessed to be here. It's a great college.
We do liveral arts the right way, and the students
are wonderful.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
How did you end up there?
Speaker 4 (07:00):
The president called me. I wanted to come out and
run the journal. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
I mean what I learned is, you know, the way
to get your next job is as somebody call you
and offer you one. That's That's essentially what happened.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
Yeah, pro tip. So where were you before National Review?
So I was I was in Washington, d C. I'm
a Michigander.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
I grew up in Michigan, went to University of Michigan,
but then after graduating, went out to d C, where
I was a writer, professional writer for for twenty years,
most of that time with National Review magazine and writing
you know, articles on governors and senators and what's happening
on Capitol Hill and book reviews and all kinds of things,
(07:44):
and just well, the phone rang and I picked it up.
So so they thought of me to come run, come
run the journalism program here. And there's a bit of
a homecoming coming back to Michigan for me, which was
which was great.
Speaker 4 (07:56):
But you know, this has been a great job. Even
it been like you know in Ohio or something. Yea, yeah,
it is. It is such a special place though.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Yeah, it is concerning and the people listening on audio
don't know. But you didn't show me the palm. And
where where in the palm you're from, the old, the.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Old old Michigan.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
Yeah, right out there. I mean, it's it's it's.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Worth the lower centers there in Michigan.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
You know, it's like we're Indiana and Ohio meet. We're
just a little bit north.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Of that, I see. And do you ever miss d C?
Or is Michigan just the future for you?
Speaker 4 (08:30):
Yeah? I do not miss d C.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
I I did like living there. I actually wasn't looking
to leave. My wife and I were happy. We were
in a good neighborhood, We liked our church that you know,
the work was pretty good. We weren't looking to leave.
But since leaving, I haven't missed it. I enjoy going back.
I got a couple of kids who live out there now.
But and I do like to go back and and
(08:53):
see things, and and so on. Occasionally there's I'll get
a story idea someone want to write, and I got gosh,
ioul just you know, buzz into d C and do
a few.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
But by and large, well it's it's better here.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Yeah. Did you always want to be a writer, Oh.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
Yeah, since I was little. You know, you start out
wanting to uh. I think a lot of writers start
out as readers. You know, you're kind of a bookish kid.
You like to read, and so forth. And and then
I had some teachers who just encouraged me along the way,
and and and noticed I would write things. And I
had I had a teacher in middle school who say
you should be a magazine writer when you grow up
and sort of stick that in the back of your head,
(09:29):
and you know, among all the other things you want
to do, you know, baseball star, you know, rock star,
I mean all that, you know, but but you sort
of you sort of think of all the possibilities, you know,
that one, that one stuck. And I did think all along,
you know, maybe maybe I could do it as a writer.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
And what would have been the backup career if if
this is clearly baseball star not?
Speaker 3 (09:52):
You know, I nearly went to grad school to be
an English professor. I did think about that pretty seriously
when I was in college. So maybe something like that.
And you know the irony is, you know I kind
of came back to academy in.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Essential, right, I mean, do teach a class?
Speaker 4 (10:05):
Yeah, I do.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
And you know I have a PhD in nothing unlike
my my brilliant colleagues here at Hillsdale College.
Speaker 4 (10:10):
They're all very well educated.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
You know, my my terminal degree is a Bachelor of
Arts at the University of Michigan in English. But but
here I am, you know, teaching teaching how to write mostly,
which is which is what I know how to do.
But I guess I've done both. My my My, My
Plan B kind of became, you know, the Plan A.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
Eventually.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
It's the best part of teaching Hillsdale kids probably the students.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
They're they're really terrific kids.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
I mean there's they're smart and they work hard, which
I think is true of students on a lot of
campuses around the country, just at the best colleges. I
really like these students though. I mean, they're good people.
I I I you know, you you you kind of
you become friendly with them. I don't want to say
we become friends, because the relationship is different from from
(10:57):
a kind of friend of friend peer to peer.
Speaker 4 (10:59):
Relationship and shit.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
But but eventually you do, like after they graduate and
so forth, you really do become friends. And one of
the things I've learned here is Hillso College is small.
There there's fifteen sixteen hundred students. There are fewer students
at this college and there were in my high school.
Speaker 4 (11:13):
Wow, So it's a yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
So it's you know, it's a big high school, but
it's also a small college. And I went to the
University of Michigan with tens of thousands of students. And
these are very different models of higher education. And you know,
my time at Michigan was pretty good. I could say
a lot about it. I'm happy I went, But I've
really become sold on the small liberal arts college model.
Speaker 4 (11:35):
And there's the fundamental difference.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
I like to compare it to, you know, biological breeding
strategies that that you know, the University of Michigan just thousands.
Speaker 4 (11:44):
Of young right and then and then.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
You know many will be eaten, won't and won't survive,
whereas whereas Hillsdale College, it's much more humane. There are
a fewer number of offspring. You make tremendously large investments
in each one, just like it's like people, yeah and
so so go to I go to three, four or
five weddings every summer of students, which is a choice.
Speaker 4 (12:09):
It's an honor to go.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
It never would have occurred to me to invite a professionals.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
My wedding, right.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
So this is one of the small pleasures of those
places is you actually make these friendships and they become lifelong.
Speaker 4 (12:24):
Ultimately, they are friendships. But I really like these kids.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
I like working with them, helping them become good writers,
and then watching them go.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Is there any level of, like you know that would
say smugness, but some sort of self satisfaction that you
guys don't have the problems that a lot of the
colleges across the country do, even putting aside the encampments
and the riots or anything like that, even just you know,
the whole bringing speakers to campus and not having them
(12:54):
get shouted down or any kind of the issues that
college campus haesn't really had in the last decade. So
do you guys feel sort of good about yourselves that
you don't have that?
Speaker 4 (13:04):
Well, I would say I feel gratitude.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
You know nothing, but I'm nothing but grateful to be
in a place where all of that is true, where
where the students are good. They for the most part
read the things you ask them to read, They do
the work and so on. We have these amazing speakers
come through, and this is an orderly and happy place.
There aren't protests, there are not disruptions. We don't have
to worry about that kind of thing. I mean, let people,
(13:28):
you know, people grumble about this and that, but it's
a happy place. People like being here, The students like
studying here. They're in the middle of nowhere in Michigan.
You've got to drive anywhere to get somewhere. They're in
the middle of nowhere in Michigan, and they like being here.
They like their friends, they like their courses, and then
the faculty and staff are happy. I think there are
(13:50):
a lot of unhappy campuses in America, people who are disgruntled.
They're kind of putting up with an awful lot because
they don't know what else to Dollo is a happy place.
People want to come here and be here, and so
I'm grateful for that.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
I love that well, Switching Gears, you were recently in
my state and you went on a little trip to
Key West that you wrote up for National Review.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Do you want to tell our listeners about it?
Speaker 3 (14:16):
So? I've been working and writing for National Review for
more than twenty five years now, and we just did
a big overhaul the magazine recently where we went from
we're coming out every two weeks now. It's a monthly magazine.
Of course, is a big online operation. At the same time,
and when the magazine did a redesign, we introduced a
new column called Our Spacious Skies, and the idea is
(14:39):
among all of the articles on politics and policy and
who's up and who's down, and what's right for America
and all that kind of stuff. We want to have
a space where we have a reported piece from America
about some interesting part of American culture or history. You know,
writer goes and explorers and doesn't need to mention Trump
(15:00):
or or anything like that. Just just give us a
flavor of something that's happening in America. And so I've
I've done this a couple of times, both reported pieces
from Michigan, which I enjoyed. But I recently had a
chance to go down to Florida for a business meeting
and then had a few extra days went down to
Key West, which I really enjoy I've always enjoyed trips
(15:22):
to Key West.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
Go it's it's you're close, you can drive us.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
You know, it's one of the great American drives going
from Miami to Key West. There's nothing like it. These
bridges and causeways. I mean, you feel like you're floating
above the Caribbean Sea with these blues and so forth.
It's just a gorgeous, gorgeous drive. There's there's I don't
know anything else like it, you know, in the world,
but it's certainly one of the great American drives going
down to Key West, and the Key West itself is
(15:46):
this fascinating blend of like tourist trap and and real place.
I mean, it has a real history. And Ernest Hemingway
lived there. Harry Truman had a little white house there.
There's a Civil War for it called the Zachary Taylor
for Zachary's Taylor. Other things as well, amid you know,
kind of a party scene and lots of bars and
restaurants and so on. And I've always I've always enjoyed
(16:08):
my visits there. It's a it's a unique American place.
But the thing I did on this trip which was
different is I enjoyed Key West, but I went to
the Dry Tortugas, which are a set of keys, you know,
small islands about seventy miles west and you can only
get there, you know, the drive ends miles zero is
(16:28):
in Key West. You can only get to this place
by ferry or seaplane. And in the Dry Tortugas is
a massive Civil War era fort called Fort Jefferson. It
is the largest brick structure in the United States. It
wasn't what was built and it still is even though
the thing is crumbling. It's something like sixteen million bricks
(16:50):
in this place. Gigantic thing. I've always wanted to go,
and this time I said, you know what, I'm going
to go, and I'm going to write it up for
our spacious guies for this column. So so my wife
and I went. We got on a ferry, went out there,
and you know, it's it's a full day thing. You
go in the early morning, you get some hours on
the on the key, exploring the fort and so forth,
and then you come.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
Back and it was just a wonderful.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
I've been thinking about this for years and it's so
great to go to a place you've been imagining and
then see what it's really like.
Speaker 4 (17:18):
And and uh, there's a.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
It's it's a it's a grand ruin. It's this crumbling structure.
The National Park Service runs it right now, and they
they do restore it, but there are a lot of
damaged areas and so forth and falling apart.
Speaker 4 (17:31):
And there's there's a weird beauty to it as well.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
There's these long corridors with with arches and beautiful symmetries.
If you, if you're a photography you can really try
and do some interesting shots there. And then of course
there's the real history about this fort, which was built
to protect American coasts and commerce and then and then
and then participate in the Civil War. You know, the
enemies became fellow Americans, right, and so it was important
(17:55):
to the naval blockade and so on. And one of
the interesting bits of history is that doctor Mudd had
wound up going there. This is the guy who treated
John Wilkes Booth in the hours after the shooting of
Abraham Lincoln Booth flees Washington shows up at the door
of of of doctor Mud and has his broken legs
set and there's a big count. You know. So Mud
(18:17):
was arrested as one of the conspirators, and there's been
a big controversy about whether he was really a conspirator,
whether he was a victim of over zealous federal prosecutors.
Speaker 4 (18:27):
You know, spoiler alert, he actually was a conspirators. That
was like doctor Yeah, he knew John.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
Wilkes Booth ahead of time, and they had they had
they had made some you know, they knew each other.
There's a reason John Wilkes Booth went there. At any rate,
he was he was not sentenced to death. The way
some of the Lincoln conspirators were. He was sent to
this fort which had become a prison for a lot
of soldiers who had deserted and court martialed and that
(18:56):
kind of thing. He spent a couple of so, I think,
you know, three four years there, treat some victims when
when when there was a yellow fever outbreak, and eventually
President Andrew Johnson pardoned him, which was you know, we've
always had controversial pardons and this was this.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
Was one of them.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
But it's just fascinating piece of history attached to this
place as well. So I was able to go there,
which is just you know, as a place I've been
thinking about for a long time. It was just a
pleasure to go and see and then and then to
work in these bits of history.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Well, I loved your piece on it. It sounds like it
really lived up to your expectations, which I think is
not always the case when you like envision something for
a long time and then you go see it. I
think a lot of times I don't want to say
the Alamo, but I feel like the Alamo for some
people might might be that where they they picture it
in their head and they get there and it's not quite.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
Well, it's small right, get there and it's like surrounded
by big buildings, right, you know. I remember the first
time I went to Mount Rushmore, which is a greatlace.
Everybody should go beautiful in the Black Hills. I remember this, like,
I thought'd be bigger.
Speaker 4 (19:58):
My first reaction.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
Yeah, so so I don't want to say it's disappointed.
I was thinking that's.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
Interesting, right, but this, this was, this was this was
this was a great trip.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
And and and I'm I was happy to write it up.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
My real thing about the Alamo is a lot of
people use it for like shorthand a fortifying something like
it's going to be fortified like the.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Alamo or whatever.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
Now that I have a history buff Sun, I'm like, hey,
do you guys know everybody.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Dies at the end?
Speaker 1 (20:25):
Didn't I don't feel like that's a well known fact.
Speaker 4 (20:30):
Yeah, remember the Alimal.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Remember I wasn't really sure what we were remembering there.
Here's what you need to remember that everyone's dead. Well,
so what do you worry about?
Speaker 4 (20:42):
What?
Speaker 1 (20:42):
What is your like, I guess overarching concern it could
be about anything, harol.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
I worry about whether the Detroit Red Wings are going
to make the Stanley.
Speaker 4 (20:51):
Cup playoffs this year.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Do you think they are?
Speaker 4 (20:54):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
I mean, I have a serious answer, but as actually
it's actually something I spent a lot of time worried about,
you know, watching the games, checking the standings and so on.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
You know, when the win yesterday, I know, I mean
the whole thing.
Speaker 4 (21:07):
Oh oh, I'm.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
New to hockey. I just know Florida one last year.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
So okay, yes, congrats to the Panthers. They've they've won
four times since nineteen ninety seven, so they had a
long draft and they were really good for about twelve
years or so, or fifteen years, and then they've been
they've been shut out of the playoffs for a while,
but maybe this year. So fingers crossed. But I do,
I do, I do have a I spent a lot
(21:31):
of time worrying about the residence. But what I really
worry about where about my kids. And that's a conventional
thing to say. I suppose everybody worries about their kids.
The new part of this for me is that mine
are grown. They're all out of the house. If they've
graduated college, they're off in the world, they have jobs,
they're they're all doing fine too.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
But you know when when you when you're a parent,
you have little kids, you're you're you're worried about them
all the time. I mean, I'm not a worry ward
but you know, you want to make sure the three
year old doesn't run in the street, or is the
sixteen year old going to drive home okay tonight? You know,
maybe on the icy streets. You know, you have those
ordinary worries and then relief when it all works out.
Speaker 4 (22:15):
But what I discovered is you just don't stop worrying.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
And you know, I mean little kids, you know, little kids,
little worries, right, big kids, like it's adult worries and
and and now again I'm not a worried where I
don't spend all my time, you know, helicoptering them or
anything like.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
That, but I think about will they will they.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
Flourish in their jobs? Will they find their vocation? How
can I help? How can I do it without meddling?
Speaker 4 (22:44):
You spend tough. Yeah, you spend a lot of time
thinking about that and so so.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
And they don't even know it, right, I mean, it's
one you know, it's it's it's an aspect of love.
Speaker 4 (22:52):
I suppose this is.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Why you don't want them to know it, No, not really.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
And see, one of the things that occurs to me
is like my own parents for the same way, and
you know, they're gone.
Speaker 4 (23:03):
Now I can't talk to them about this, but but.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
I now, you know, on reflection sort of at moments
as you know, they when they did things or said
certain things like gosh, they were just worried, you know,
and in in a in the best kind of way,
I suppose, And so so that's.
Speaker 4 (23:19):
Uh, that's what I worry about.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
And I didn't quite expect that it would be that way,
and yet there it is. And I suppose, you know,
I'm gonna worry about them until until I go and
you know, they're they're you know, they're old people themselves.
Speaker 4 (23:30):
Me, I'll have grandkids to worry about at some point, but.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
That's to be fun.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
But you know, you never you never stopped worrying about
your kids. I've figured out.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
I also feel like, maybe, just based on grandparent interactions
I've seen, you don't worry about your grandkids in quite
the same way. It's it's sort of like you trust
your kids too to handle.
Speaker 4 (23:50):
Joke.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
One of the things about the grand kids, you can
hand them back right. I heard a joke Dick Army,
the old member of Congress first person.
Speaker 4 (24:00):
I remember telling this joke.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
He said, you know what, you know what grandparents and
grandchildren have in common, don't you? They have a common enemy.
Speaker 4 (24:09):
They get along really well. So eddieway, we'll see about that.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
I mean, I don't know if we're allowed to quote
Bill Cosby, but Bill Cosby had one where he said
that he wasn't raised by the same person as his
kid's grand grandmother, because that's a that's just an old woman.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Trying to get into heaven.
Speaker 4 (24:26):
That's about right.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Yeah, definitely, we're.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Going to take a quick break and be right back
on the Carol Marcowitch Show.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
So what advice would.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
You give your sixteen year old self if you had
to kind of do it?
Speaker 3 (24:41):
Yeah, So that's that's a tougher one, because I'm not
sure I want to tell my sixteen year old self
anything in the sense that I'm kind of pleased with
how things turned out. And I'm enough of a science
fiction nerd having read all these novels and so forth,
especially when I was sixteen, to be aware of time
(25:02):
travel and the way that they change up. Yeah, you
change something you mess up the future, right and and
there there are lots of things I can imagine saying
to my sixteen year old self to like, you know,
fix something that I did. But you know, life is
full of accidents and and a lot of the best
things come out of the bad things, and and and
and part of me is just like, I'm not going
(25:25):
to tell that kid a thing because it's it's gonna
be okay, it's gonna work out.
Speaker 4 (25:30):
And you know what, am I going to do? What
I was like invest in Apple?
Speaker 3 (25:33):
You know, I mean it's like, yeah, not a bad one,
but you know that would have changed everything and maybe
for the worst. I mean, you know, having money is
not the best thing. Having money, especially when you're young,
can be a kind of curse.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
And and if I'd had if I'd had a lot
of money when I was young, I wouldn't have worked
as hard, probably wouldn't be at Hillsdale today. You know,
all the things that I love about my life right
now that i'm they might go away if I if I,
if I were to say something to my sixteen try
and you know, change the future in a sense. And
I'm reminded of you know, one of those books I read.
Speaker 4 (26:07):
When I was young.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
Yeah, I read Ray Bradbury and he has these great
short stories and one is called A Sound of Thunder
and it's a it's a time travel story where the
the idea is that that this company has figured out
how to do time travel and if you're a hunter,
you can go back in time and hunt a t rex.
You can go and shoot a t rex like this
(26:30):
can be your you know, your trophy animal. And the
idea is, you know, they'll figure out they'll go find
the t rex that's about to die anyway, so that
if you shoot it, you won't change the future, right,
but you can have this experience where you'll go and
hunt the t rex. Like what more could a hunter
ever want to do than that? Right? So they they
send these they send this group of hunters back in time.
(26:53):
They've identified, you know, tagged the t rex that they're
going to get or whatever, and they send them back
in time and they're like, you know, don't step off
the path, you know all these other things you gotta
you gotta do. Of course, one guy steps off the path. Yeah,
they do get the t rex and then and then
they come back into the you know, the present time
(27:14):
where they're going to brag about having shot the t
Rex and everything's different. They live in a fascist society.
The people English is different. It's it's spelled differently, people
speak differently. Everything has changed, and they're like, you know,
what happened And and as as as they're undressing one guy,
the guy stepped off the path, looks at the bottom
(27:35):
of his shoe, his boot or whatever, and there's a
dead butterfly. And you know, so the idea is the
idea is he stepped on that butterfly and that's what
changed the future. So so it's a goofy idea. But
but as typical Ray Bradbury is well told, it's entertaining
and it deals with this sort of interesting concept that
that you know, speculative and so forth.
Speaker 4 (27:58):
It's about time travel. Like you know, I love that.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
I love that answer because a lot of people do
say by apple yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
Right, yeah, so so so so I just don't want
to go tell my sixteen year old self to like
go do something, go step on the butterfly.
Speaker 4 (28:12):
Then you know, yeah, so that's that's my answer. I do.
I do a fun answer though.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
But I would also just add that it's also because
you know, and very Russian superstitious, so touch would But
it's because you love your life. It's you know, a
lot of people have a lot of things they would
tell their sixteen year old self because they would want
to change some outcomes.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
And it really does show something.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
I have a lot of blessings and I've had a
I've been fortunate, and I just don't want to mess
that up.
Speaker 4 (28:39):
And I guess that's part of the conservatism in me, right,
the small c conservatism. But I do a fun I
have a fun answer too, Karen, right, tell me, I
thought that.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
The shooting t Rex was the fun answer.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
But Okay, if you're going to say, like, if you're
going to say like that's a cop out, you have
to say something.
Speaker 4 (28:53):
You have to give some kind of advice. Here's what
I'm going to say.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
I'm going to say to my sixteen year old self
that in the near future, you're going to hear about
this band called Nirvana, and you're really gonna like Nirvana
when you're in college, and you're gonna have a ticket
to see them play in a small Detroit nightclub on
the Nevermind tour, and you're not going to go to
(29:16):
that concert because you have the gre the next morning
you're thinking about grad school and how you need a
good night's sleep.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (29:22):
Responsible, Yeah, exactly like the concert.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
Well maybe maybe a little too responsible. So I'm gonna say,
I'm gonna say, go to the concert.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
You actually don't have as many opportunities as you think
you will.
Speaker 4 (29:35):
Yeah exactly.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
I mean, I mean at the time, I actually thought, well,
I'll just see them on the next.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Tour, right right, because why wouldn't you?
Speaker 3 (29:41):
Yeah, And well that never happened, or at least I
didn't have a chance. So so that's what I'd say,
go to the go to the show.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
I have loved this conversation. Really one of my favorite
interviews I've ever done. And I actually don't say that,
so I really, I really really mean it.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
Leave us here with your.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Best tip for my listeners on how they can improve
their lives.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
So part of me wants to say, you know, fine,
faith very well, you know that kind of thing. But
I'm going to say some a little bit different. I'm
gonna say, go to the sources. And and here's what
I mean by that. Because I run a journalism program,
people are often asking me how should I consume the news?
How can I become a good reader of the news,
(30:29):
and and and the thing I'm always saying, well, how
do you get your news? And I read what's on Twitter,
you know, on social media whatever, and that's it.
Speaker 4 (30:39):
And you can turn Twitter.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
Into a really good news feed. I mean, we kind
of get the Twitter we deserve, right.
Speaker 4 (30:46):
Yeah, you can. You can.
Speaker 3 (30:48):
You can make and it something great which is full
of like funny pet videos and sports scores and and
an interesting news and commentary whatever you can.
Speaker 4 (30:59):
You can, but it's not sufficient.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
And if if you're gonna, if you're gonna get all
of your news this way, you are just basically a
slave to the algorithm. You're letting big tech decide for
you what the news is and what you're gonna hear
about it. And so I'm always saying, go to the sources,
Go to the the find the publications that you love
(31:24):
and that you trust, Go read those websites. Make that,
make that a part of what you do as you
gain news and information about the world. And and and
you know, use Twitter by all means. But but you know,
I start my day I read several newspapers and going
to the websites, reading newspapers, and I miss the days
of like actual newspapers you can spread out in front
(31:44):
of you and read, you know, in print.
Speaker 4 (31:46):
I'm old enough to miss all that. I think they
those they still do. I still get a couple. But
but I'm on, you know, I'm on.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
I'm online doing this and and going to the sources
and look. Journalism today is is what I would say,
is it's never been worse, and it's never been better.
I mean, the media is full of lies and misinformation
and ignorance. It's horrible. The media is a gigantic, horrible cesspool.
On the one hand, On the other hand, some of
(32:15):
the very finest journalists artwork today, and it's never been
easier for people to get news and information than it
is right now. You can read newspapers in other cities,
you can read newspapers from on the other side of
the planet. We have this ability to do this kind
of thing. So go out and get it. Go out
and find that information. Don't let the algorithm feed it
(32:36):
to you. Don't take what they are giving you. Go
find the writers you love, the publications you trust, and
go to their sites and see what they're giving you.
Every morning every week. However, whatever frequency you want to use,
go to them, Go to the sources and find out
for yourself rather than having someone feed you your diet.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
That's great. Fighte that algorithm. Thank you so much. He
is John J. Miller.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Check out all of his writing. Such a fantastic person.
Get all his books.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
Also.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
I didn't get to talk about that, but he's written
many books and he's just fantastic.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Check him out John J.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
Miller.
Speaker 4 (33:11):
Thanks so much, Cheryl, thanks for having on the show.
I love what you do.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
Thanks so much for joining us on the Carol Marco
which show. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.
Hi, and welcome back to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio.
There was a piece in the Free Press a few
days ago that I immediately sent to my fifteen year
old daughter. It was called How I Became a Wife,
and I was already thinking of doing a monologue on
it when a listener, Hi, Amy, sent it to me too,
(00:23):
So obviously it's a fit. The writer Larissa Phillips writes, quote,
my parents weren't that extreme, but they still wanted to
take a sledgehammer to social norms. They both adhered to
the blank slate idea that differences between men and women
were socially constructed and a little tweaking would solve the
problem of disparate outcomes. My mother dressed my sister and
(00:46):
I in overalls and Earth's shoes, and if we got
baby dolls or tea sets, it was with a hint
of disapproval. Why would girls play it being mothers or
wives when they could sit on the Supreme Court or
fly to the moon.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
When I was in the sixth my.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Mother gave me a framed print that said a woman
needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle. End quote.
I'll say that does actually sound quite extreme. But the
part that I completely can't wrap my mind around is
that you can only sit on the Supreme Court or
fly to the moon if you aren't married and don't
(01:22):
have kids. That's the separation for me. I'll say that
my parents also weren't like, you should definitely get married
and have children. I don't remember them ever saying that
to me. But the truth is that my career that
they did want me to have took off when I
got married. It was just easier to do what I
(01:43):
wanted to do with a support system, and not just financial,
although that definitely helped, but emotional. It's why married people,
both men and women, earn more money. We've been through
this on the show in many pre episodes. But the
reason that I sent this article to my fifteen year
(02:04):
old daughter is that I see a lot of the
messaging that she gets out in the world. It's a
lot of the worst and you don't need men. All
you need is a great job, and you can only
have that if you aren't married and don't have kids.
I particularly loved the way Phillips tells their story. She
was told she was going to love one thing, and
(02:26):
then she loved another.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
She writes quote.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
I assumed i'd go back to work when our son
was a few months old, as seemed to be the
norm in New York City. But this turned out to
be impossible. First, I didn't earn enough as an editor
to justify daycare or nanny. But even more importantly, leaving
that soft little creature who fits so snugly and easily
into my arms, who burrowed his face into my neck
(02:52):
and slept against my chest as if he belonged there,
felt deeply in my bones wrong. So I stayed home.
End quote. We lived in the Upper West Side of
Manhattan when we had our first child, the fifteen year
old I sent the article to. I was writing occasionally,
but definitely not professionally yet. I would occasionally write something
that got printed and I got paid, but it was.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Nowhere near a career.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
So I had this wide open schedule to snuggle with
her and walk around and just be free and focus
on her. And it was a really magical time. And
I met other moms with babies about the same age
who had successful careers, lawyers, doctors, who all they wanted
to do was stay home with their babies. They loved
(03:36):
their jobs, but there was nothing like being home with
that baby. It's just instinct. Here's what else I loved
about this piece that the fact that you stayed home
with your children does not mean you'll never work again.
That doesn't mean you can't also have a career. It
just means that if you have the opportunity to lean
(03:56):
into this very short time of having small children and
to really be with them, take it. Phillips and her
husband end up having more kids and moving upstate and
having a farm, and she talks about all the hard
work she does, it's not all baby snuggling. But then
she writes, quote, I stand by a lot of the
feminist lessons I learned as a child. Of Course women
(04:19):
can sit on the Supreme Court and be astronauts or
physicists or lawyers. Of Course we can survive without men.
But getting married, being a wife, being a mother is
not a step back in time or a surrendering of ground.
It's actually the best part of my life.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
End quote.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
What I would say about that is that the feminist
lessons do leave out that last part. And it's important
to me that my daughter understands that you can be anything.
You can be many things, but I can already predict
what you will love being most. Thanks for listening. Coming
up my interview with John J.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Miller.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
But first, after more than a year of war, terror
and pain in Israel, all of Israel is broken hearted
after learning of the tragic deaths of the Beebis children
who were held hostage in Gaza, and so many are
still hurting throughout the Holy Land, where the need for
aid continues to grow. The International Fellowship of Christians and
Jews has supported and continues to support families of hostages
(05:20):
and other victims of the October seventh terror attacks. With
your help, IFCJ has provided financial and emotional help to
hostages and their families, and to those healing and rebuilding
their broken homes and broken bodies.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
But the real work is just beginning.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Your gift will help provide critically needed support to families
in Israel whose lives continue to be destroyed by terror
and uncertainty as Israel remains surrounded by enemies. Give a
gift to bless Israel and her people by visiting SUPPORTIFCJ
dot org. One word SUPPORTIFCJ dot org, or call eight
(06:01):
eight eight for eight eight IFCJ. That's eight eight eight
for eight eight if CJ. Welcome back to the Carol
Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
My guest today is John J. Miller.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
John is director of the Now Journalism Program at Hillsdale College.
He also writes for National Review, The Wall Street Journal,
and other publications. He has two weekly podcasts, The Great
Books and The Bookmonger.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Hi, John, So nice to have you on.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
Hi Carol, thanks for having me. I love your show.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Well, thanks so much. You know, I'm a huge fan
of yours.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
I got to know you while I was at Hillsdale
last year, and I still talk about Hillsdale all the time,
like it comes up frequently. I had no idea just
how much Hillsdale was the center of the universe.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Actually, I'm blessed to be here. It's a great college.
We do liveral arts the right way, and the students
are wonderful.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
How did you end up there?
Speaker 4 (07:00):
The president called me. I wanted to come out and
run the journal. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
I mean what I learned is, you know, the way
to get your next job is as somebody call you
and offer you one. That's That's essentially what happened.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
Yeah, pro tip. So where were you before National Review?
So I was I was in Washington, d C. I'm
a Michigander.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
I grew up in Michigan, went to University of Michigan,
but then after graduating, went out to d C, where
I was a writer, professional writer for for twenty years,
most of that time with National Review magazine and writing
you know, articles on governors and senators and what's happening
on Capitol Hill and book reviews and all kinds of things,
(07:44):
and just well, the phone rang and I picked it up.
So so they thought of me to come run, come
run the journalism program here. And there's a bit of
a homecoming coming back to Michigan for me, which was
which was great.
Speaker 4 (07:56):
But you know, this has been a great job. Even
it been like you know in Ohio or something. Yea, yeah,
it is. It is such a special place though.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Yeah, it is concerning and the people listening on audio
don't know. But you didn't show me the palm. And
where where in the palm you're from, the old, the.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Old old Michigan.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
Yeah, right out there. I mean, it's it's it's.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Worth the lower centers there in Michigan.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
You know, it's like we're Indiana and Ohio meet. We're
just a little bit north.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Of that, I see. And do you ever miss d C?
Or is Michigan just the future for you?
Speaker 4 (08:30):
Yeah? I do not miss d C.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
I I did like living there. I actually wasn't looking
to leave. My wife and I were happy. We were
in a good neighborhood, We liked our church that you know,
the work was pretty good. We weren't looking to leave.
But since leaving, I haven't missed it. I enjoy going back.
I got a couple of kids who live out there now.
But and I do like to go back and and
(08:53):
see things, and and so on. Occasionally there's I'll get
a story idea someone want to write, and I got gosh,
ioul just you know, buzz into d C and do
a few.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
But by and large, well it's it's better here.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Yeah. Did you always want to be a writer, Oh.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
Yeah, since I was little. You know, you start out
wanting to uh. I think a lot of writers start
out as readers. You know, you're kind of a bookish kid.
You like to read, and so forth. And and then
I had some teachers who just encouraged me along the way,
and and and noticed I would write things. And I
had I had a teacher in middle school who say
you should be a magazine writer when you grow up
and sort of stick that in the back of your head,
(09:29):
and you know, among all the other things you want
to do, you know, baseball star, you know, rock star,
I mean all that, you know, but but you sort
of you sort of think of all the possibilities, you know,
that one, that one stuck. And I did think all along,
you know, maybe maybe I could do it as a writer.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
And what would have been the backup career if if
this is clearly baseball star not?
Speaker 3 (09:52):
You know, I nearly went to grad school to be
an English professor. I did think about that pretty seriously
when I was in college. So maybe something like that.
And you know the irony is, you know I kind
of came back to academy in.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Essential, right, I mean, do teach a class?
Speaker 4 (10:05):
Yeah, I do.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
And you know I have a PhD in nothing unlike
my my brilliant colleagues here at Hillsdale College.
Speaker 4 (10:10):
They're all very well educated.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
You know, my my terminal degree is a Bachelor of
Arts at the University of Michigan in English. But but
here I am, you know, teaching teaching how to write mostly,
which is which is what I know how to do.
But I guess I've done both. My my My, My
Plan B kind of became, you know, the Plan A.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
Eventually.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
It's the best part of teaching Hillsdale kids probably the students.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
They're they're really terrific kids.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
I mean there's they're smart and they work hard, which
I think is true of students on a lot of
campuses around the country, just at the best colleges. I
really like these students though. I mean, they're good people.
I I I you know, you you you kind of
you become friendly with them. I don't want to say
we become friends, because the relationship is different from from
(10:57):
a kind of friend of friend peer to peer.
Speaker 4 (10:59):
Relationship and shit.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
But but eventually you do, like after they graduate and
so forth, you really do become friends. And one of
the things I've learned here is Hillso College is small.
There there's fifteen sixteen hundred students. There are fewer students
at this college and there were in my high school.
Speaker 4 (11:13):
Wow, So it's a yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
So it's you know, it's a big high school, but
it's also a small college. And I went to the
University of Michigan with tens of thousands of students. And
these are very different models of higher education. And you know,
my time at Michigan was pretty good. I could say
a lot about it. I'm happy I went, But I've
really become sold on the small liberal arts college model.
Speaker 4 (11:35):
And there's the fundamental difference.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
I like to compare it to, you know, biological breeding
strategies that that you know, the University of Michigan just thousands.
Speaker 4 (11:44):
Of young right and then and then.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
You know many will be eaten, won't and won't survive,
whereas whereas Hillsdale College, it's much more humane. There are
a fewer number of offspring. You make tremendously large investments
in each one, just like it's like people, yeah and
so so go to I go to three, four or
five weddings every summer of students, which is a choice.
Speaker 4 (12:09):
It's an honor to go.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
It never would have occurred to me to invite a professionals.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
My wedding, right.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
So this is one of the small pleasures of those
places is you actually make these friendships and they become lifelong.
Speaker 4 (12:24):
Ultimately, they are friendships. But I really like these kids.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
I like working with them, helping them become good writers,
and then watching them go.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Is there any level of, like you know that would
say smugness, but some sort of self satisfaction that you
guys don't have the problems that a lot of the
colleges across the country do, even putting aside the encampments
and the riots or anything like that, even just you know,
the whole bringing speakers to campus and not having them
(12:54):
get shouted down or any kind of the issues that
college campus haesn't really had in the last decade. So
do you guys feel sort of good about yourselves that
you don't have that?
Speaker 4 (13:04):
Well, I would say I feel gratitude.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
You know nothing, but I'm nothing but grateful to be
in a place where all of that is true, where
where the students are good. They for the most part
read the things you ask them to read, They do
the work and so on. We have these amazing speakers
come through, and this is an orderly and happy place.
There aren't protests, there are not disruptions. We don't have
to worry about that kind of thing. I mean, let people,
(13:28):
you know, people grumble about this and that, but it's
a happy place. People like being here, The students like
studying here. They're in the middle of nowhere in Michigan.
You've got to drive anywhere to get somewhere. They're in
the middle of nowhere in Michigan, and they like being here.
They like their friends, they like their courses, and then
the faculty and staff are happy. I think there are
(13:50):
a lot of unhappy campuses in America, people who are disgruntled.
They're kind of putting up with an awful lot because
they don't know what else to Dollo is a happy place.
People want to come here and be here, and so
I'm grateful for that.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
I love that well, Switching Gears, you were recently in
my state and you went on a little trip to
Key West that you wrote up for National Review.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Do you want to tell our listeners about it?
Speaker 3 (14:16):
So? I've been working and writing for National Review for
more than twenty five years now, and we just did
a big overhaul the magazine recently where we went from
we're coming out every two weeks now. It's a monthly magazine.
Of course, is a big online operation. At the same time,
and when the magazine did a redesign, we introduced a
new column called Our Spacious Skies, and the idea is
(14:39):
among all of the articles on politics and policy and
who's up and who's down, and what's right for America
and all that kind of stuff. We want to have
a space where we have a reported piece from America
about some interesting part of American culture or history. You know,
writer goes and explorers and doesn't need to mention Trump
(15:00):
or or anything like that. Just just give us a
flavor of something that's happening in America. And so I've
I've done this a couple of times, both reported pieces
from Michigan, which I enjoyed. But I recently had a
chance to go down to Florida for a business meeting
and then had a few extra days went down to
Key West, which I really enjoy I've always enjoyed trips
(15:22):
to Key West.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
Go it's it's you're close, you can drive us.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
You know, it's one of the great American drives going
from Miami to Key West. There's nothing like it. These
bridges and causeways. I mean, you feel like you're floating
above the Caribbean Sea with these blues and so forth.
It's just a gorgeous, gorgeous drive. There's there's I don't
know anything else like it, you know, in the world,
but it's certainly one of the great American drives going
down to Key West, and the Key West itself is
(15:46):
this fascinating blend of like tourist trap and and real place.
I mean, it has a real history. And Ernest Hemingway
lived there. Harry Truman had a little white house there.
There's a Civil War for it called the Zachary Taylor
for Zachary's Taylor. Other things as well, amid you know,
kind of a party scene and lots of bars and
restaurants and so on. And I've always I've always enjoyed
(16:08):
my visits there. It's a it's a unique American place.
But the thing I did on this trip which was
different is I enjoyed Key West, but I went to
the Dry Tortugas, which are a set of keys, you know,
small islands about seventy miles west and you can only
get there, you know, the drive ends miles zero is
(16:28):
in Key West. You can only get to this place
by ferry or seaplane. And in the Dry Tortugas is
a massive Civil War era fort called Fort Jefferson. It
is the largest brick structure in the United States. It
wasn't what was built and it still is even though
the thing is crumbling. It's something like sixteen million bricks
(16:50):
in this place. Gigantic thing. I've always wanted to go,
and this time I said, you know what, I'm going
to go, and I'm going to write it up for
our spacious guies for this column. So so my wife
and I went. We got on a ferry, went out there,
and you know, it's it's a full day thing. You
go in the early morning, you get some hours on
the on the key, exploring the fort and so forth,
and then you come.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
Back and it was just a wonderful.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
I've been thinking about this for years and it's so
great to go to a place you've been imagining and
then see what it's really like.
Speaker 4 (17:18):
And and uh, there's a.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
It's it's a it's a grand ruin. It's this crumbling structure.
The National Park Service runs it right now, and they
they do restore it, but there are a lot of
damaged areas and so forth and falling apart.
Speaker 4 (17:31):
And there's there's a weird beauty to it as well.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
There's these long corridors with with arches and beautiful symmetries.
If you, if you're a photography you can really try
and do some interesting shots there. And then of course
there's the real history about this fort, which was built
to protect American coasts and commerce and then and then
and then participate in the Civil War. You know, the
enemies became fellow Americans, right, and so it was important
(17:55):
to the naval blockade and so on. And one of
the interesting bits of history is that doctor Mudd had
wound up going there. This is the guy who treated
John Wilkes Booth in the hours after the shooting of
Abraham Lincoln Booth flees Washington shows up at the door
of of of doctor Mud and has his broken legs
set and there's a big count. You know. So Mud
(18:17):
was arrested as one of the conspirators, and there's been
a big controversy about whether he was really a conspirator,
whether he was a victim of over zealous federal prosecutors.
Speaker 4 (18:27):
You know, spoiler alert, he actually was a conspirators. That
was like doctor Yeah, he knew John.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
Wilkes Booth ahead of time, and they had they had
they had made some you know, they knew each other.
There's a reason John Wilkes Booth went there. At any rate,
he was he was not sentenced to death. The way
some of the Lincoln conspirators were. He was sent to
this fort which had become a prison for a lot
of soldiers who had deserted and court martialed and that
(18:56):
kind of thing. He spent a couple of so, I think,
you know, three four years there, treat some victims when
when when there was a yellow fever outbreak, and eventually
President Andrew Johnson pardoned him, which was you know, we've
always had controversial pardons and this was this.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
Was one of them.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
But it's just fascinating piece of history attached to this
place as well. So I was able to go there,
which is just you know, as a place I've been
thinking about for a long time. It was just a
pleasure to go and see and then and then to
work in these bits of history.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Well, I loved your piece on it. It sounds like it
really lived up to your expectations, which I think is
not always the case when you like envision something for
a long time and then you go see it. I
think a lot of times I don't want to say
the Alamo, but I feel like the Alamo for some
people might might be that where they they picture it
in their head and they get there and it's not quite.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
Well, it's small right, get there and it's like surrounded
by big buildings, right, you know. I remember the first
time I went to Mount Rushmore, which is a greatlace.
Everybody should go beautiful in the Black Hills. I remember this, like,
I thought'd be bigger.
Speaker 4 (19:58):
My first reaction.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
Yeah, so so I don't want to say it's disappointed.
I was thinking that's.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
Interesting, right, but this, this was, this was this was
this was a great trip.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
And and and I'm I was happy to write it up.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
My real thing about the Alamo is a lot of
people use it for like shorthand a fortifying something like
it's going to be fortified like the.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Alamo or whatever.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
Now that I have a history buff Sun, I'm like, hey,
do you guys know everybody.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Dies at the end?
Speaker 1 (20:25):
Didn't I don't feel like that's a well known fact.
Speaker 4 (20:30):
Yeah, remember the Alimal.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Remember I wasn't really sure what we were remembering there.
Here's what you need to remember that everyone's dead. Well,
so what do you worry about?
Speaker 4 (20:42):
What?
Speaker 1 (20:42):
What is your like, I guess overarching concern it could
be about anything, harol.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
I worry about whether the Detroit Red Wings are going
to make the Stanley.
Speaker 4 (20:51):
Cup playoffs this year.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Do you think they are?
Speaker 4 (20:54):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
I mean, I have a serious answer, but as actually
it's actually something I spent a lot of time worried about,
you know, watching the games, checking the standings and so on.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
You know, when the win yesterday, I know, I mean
the whole thing.
Speaker 4 (21:07):
Oh oh, I'm.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
New to hockey. I just know Florida one last year.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
So okay, yes, congrats to the Panthers. They've they've won
four times since nineteen ninety seven, so they had a
long draft and they were really good for about twelve
years or so, or fifteen years, and then they've been
they've been shut out of the playoffs for a while,
but maybe this year. So fingers crossed. But I do,
I do, I do have a I spent a lot
(21:31):
of time worrying about the residence. But what I really
worry about where about my kids. And that's a conventional
thing to say. I suppose everybody worries about their kids.
The new part of this for me is that mine
are grown. They're all out of the house. If they've
graduated college, they're off in the world, they have jobs,
they're they're all doing fine too.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
But you know when when you when you're a parent,
you have little kids, you're you're you're worried about them
all the time. I mean, I'm not a worry ward
but you know, you want to make sure the three
year old doesn't run in the street, or is the
sixteen year old going to drive home okay tonight? You know,
maybe on the icy streets. You know, you have those
ordinary worries and then relief when it all works out.
Speaker 4 (22:15):
But what I discovered is you just don't stop worrying.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
And you know, I mean little kids, you know, little kids,
little worries, right, big kids, like it's adult worries and
and and now again I'm not a worried where I
don't spend all my time, you know, helicoptering them or
anything like.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
That, but I think about will they will they.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
Flourish in their jobs? Will they find their vocation? How
can I help? How can I do it without meddling?
Speaker 4 (22:44):
You spend tough. Yeah, you spend a lot of time
thinking about that and so so.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
And they don't even know it, right, I mean, it's
one you know, it's it's it's an aspect of love.
Speaker 4 (22:52):
I suppose this is.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Why you don't want them to know it, No, not really.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
And see, one of the things that occurs to me
is like my own parents for the same way, and
you know, they're gone.
Speaker 4 (23:03):
Now I can't talk to them about this, but but.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
I now, you know, on reflection sort of at moments
as you know, they when they did things or said
certain things like gosh, they were just worried, you know,
and in in a in the best kind of way,
I suppose, And so so that's.
Speaker 4 (23:19):
Uh, that's what I worry about.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
And I didn't quite expect that it would be that way,
and yet there it is. And I suppose, you know,
I'm gonna worry about them until until I go and
you know, they're they're you know, they're old people themselves.
Speaker 4 (23:30):
Me, I'll have grandkids to worry about at some point, but.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
That's to be fun.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
But you know, you never you never stopped worrying about
your kids. I've figured out.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
I also feel like, maybe, just based on grandparent interactions
I've seen, you don't worry about your grandkids in quite
the same way. It's it's sort of like you trust
your kids too to handle.
Speaker 4 (23:50):
Joke.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
One of the things about the grand kids, you can
hand them back right. I heard a joke Dick Army,
the old member of Congress first person.
Speaker 4 (24:00):
I remember telling this joke.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
He said, you know what, you know what grandparents and
grandchildren have in common, don't you? They have a common enemy.
Speaker 4 (24:09):
They get along really well. So eddieway, we'll see about that.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
I mean, I don't know if we're allowed to quote
Bill Cosby, but Bill Cosby had one where he said
that he wasn't raised by the same person as his
kid's grand grandmother, because that's a that's just an old woman.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Trying to get into heaven.
Speaker 4 (24:26):
That's about right.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Yeah, definitely, we're.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Going to take a quick break and be right back
on the Carol Marcowitch Show.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
So what advice would.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
You give your sixteen year old self if you had
to kind of do it?
Speaker 3 (24:41):
Yeah, So that's that's a tougher one, because I'm not
sure I want to tell my sixteen year old self
anything in the sense that I'm kind of pleased with
how things turned out. And I'm enough of a science
fiction nerd having read all these novels and so forth,
especially when I was sixteen, to be aware of time
(25:02):
travel and the way that they change up. Yeah, you
change something you mess up the future, right and and
there there are lots of things I can imagine saying
to my sixteen year old self to like, you know,
fix something that I did. But you know, life is
full of accidents and and a lot of the best
things come out of the bad things, and and and
and part of me is just like, I'm not going
(25:25):
to tell that kid a thing because it's it's gonna
be okay, it's gonna work out.
Speaker 4 (25:30):
And you know what, am I going to do? What
I was like invest in Apple?
Speaker 3 (25:33):
You know, I mean it's like, yeah, not a bad one,
but you know that would have changed everything and maybe
for the worst. I mean, you know, having money is
not the best thing. Having money, especially when you're young,
can be a kind of curse.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
And and if I'd had if I'd had a lot
of money when I was young, I wouldn't have worked
as hard, probably wouldn't be at Hillsdale today. You know,
all the things that I love about my life right
now that i'm they might go away if I if I,
if I were to say something to my sixteen try
and you know, change the future in a sense. And
I'm reminded of you know, one of those books I read.
Speaker 4 (26:07):
When I was young.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
Yeah, I read Ray Bradbury and he has these great
short stories and one is called A Sound of Thunder
and it's a it's a time travel story where the
the idea is that that this company has figured out
how to do time travel and if you're a hunter,
you can go back in time and hunt a t rex.
You can go and shoot a t rex like this
(26:30):
can be your you know, your trophy animal. And the
idea is, you know, they'll figure out they'll go find
the t rex that's about to die anyway, so that
if you shoot it, you won't change the future, right,
but you can have this experience where you'll go and
hunt the t rex. Like what more could a hunter
ever want to do than that? Right? So they they
send these they send this group of hunters back in time.
(26:53):
They've identified, you know, tagged the t rex that they're
going to get or whatever, and they send them back
in time and they're like, you know, don't step off
the path, you know all these other things you gotta
you gotta do. Of course, one guy steps off the path. Yeah,
they do get the t rex and then and then
they come back into the you know, the present time
(27:14):
where they're going to brag about having shot the t
Rex and everything's different. They live in a fascist society.
The people English is different. It's it's spelled differently, people
speak differently. Everything has changed, and they're like, you know,
what happened And and as as as they're undressing one guy,
the guy stepped off the path, looks at the bottom
(27:35):
of his shoe, his boot or whatever, and there's a
dead butterfly. And you know, so the idea is the
idea is he stepped on that butterfly and that's what
changed the future. So so it's a goofy idea. But
but as typical Ray Bradbury is well told, it's entertaining
and it deals with this sort of interesting concept that
that you know, speculative and so forth.
Speaker 4 (27:58):
It's about time travel. Like you know, I love that.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
I love that answer because a lot of people do
say by apple yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
Right, yeah, so so so so I just don't want
to go tell my sixteen year old self to like
go do something, go step on the butterfly.
Speaker 4 (28:12):
Then you know, yeah, so that's that's my answer. I do.
I do a fun answer though.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
But I would also just add that it's also because
you know, and very Russian superstitious, so touch would But
it's because you love your life. It's you know, a
lot of people have a lot of things they would
tell their sixteen year old self because they would want
to change some outcomes.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
And it really does show something.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
I have a lot of blessings and I've had a
I've been fortunate, and I just don't want to mess
that up.
Speaker 4 (28:39):
And I guess that's part of the conservatism in me, right,
the small c conservatism. But I do a fun I
have a fun answer too, Karen, right, tell me, I
thought that.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
The shooting t Rex was the fun answer.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
But Okay, if you're going to say, like, if you're
going to say like that's a cop out, you have
to say something.
Speaker 4 (28:53):
You have to give some kind of advice. Here's what
I'm going to say.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
I'm going to say to my sixteen year old self
that in the near future, you're going to hear about
this band called Nirvana, and you're really gonna like Nirvana
when you're in college, and you're gonna have a ticket
to see them play in a small Detroit nightclub on
the Nevermind tour, and you're not going to go to
(29:16):
that concert because you have the gre the next morning
you're thinking about grad school and how you need a
good night's sleep.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (29:22):
Responsible, Yeah, exactly like the concert.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
Well maybe maybe a little too responsible. So I'm gonna say,
I'm gonna say, go to the concert.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
You actually don't have as many opportunities as you think
you will.
Speaker 4 (29:35):
Yeah exactly.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
I mean, I mean at the time, I actually thought, well,
I'll just see them on the next.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Tour, right right, because why wouldn't you?
Speaker 3 (29:41):
Yeah, And well that never happened, or at least I
didn't have a chance. So so that's what I'd say,
go to the go to the show.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
I have loved this conversation. Really one of my favorite
interviews I've ever done. And I actually don't say that,
so I really, I really really mean it.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
Leave us here with your.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Best tip for my listeners on how they can improve
their lives.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
So part of me wants to say, you know, fine,
faith very well, you know that kind of thing. But
I'm going to say some a little bit different. I'm
gonna say, go to the sources. And and here's what
I mean by that. Because I run a journalism program,
people are often asking me how should I consume the news?
How can I become a good reader of the news,
(30:29):
and and and the thing I'm always saying, well, how
do you get your news? And I read what's on Twitter,
you know, on social media whatever, and that's it.
Speaker 4 (30:39):
And you can turn Twitter.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
Into a really good news feed. I mean, we kind
of get the Twitter we deserve, right.
Speaker 4 (30:46):
Yeah, you can. You can.
Speaker 3 (30:48):
You can make and it something great which is full
of like funny pet videos and sports scores and and
an interesting news and commentary whatever you can.
Speaker 4 (30:59):
You can, but it's not sufficient.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
And if if you're gonna, if you're gonna get all
of your news this way, you are just basically a
slave to the algorithm. You're letting big tech decide for
you what the news is and what you're gonna hear
about it. And so I'm always saying, go to the sources,
Go to the the find the publications that you love
(31:24):
and that you trust, Go read those websites. Make that,
make that a part of what you do as you
gain news and information about the world. And and and
you know, use Twitter by all means. But but you know,
I start my day I read several newspapers and going
to the websites, reading newspapers, and I miss the days
of like actual newspapers you can spread out in front
(31:44):
of you and read, you know, in print.
Speaker 4 (31:46):
I'm old enough to miss all that. I think they
those they still do. I still get a couple. But
but I'm on, you know, I'm on.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
I'm online doing this and and going to the sources
and look. Journalism today is is what I would say,
is it's never been worse, and it's never been better.
I mean, the media is full of lies and misinformation
and ignorance. It's horrible. The media is a gigantic, horrible cesspool.
On the one hand, On the other hand, some of
(32:15):
the very finest journalists artwork today, and it's never been
easier for people to get news and information than it
is right now. You can read newspapers in other cities,
you can read newspapers from on the other side of
the planet. We have this ability to do this kind
of thing. So go out and get it. Go out
and find that information. Don't let the algorithm feed it
(32:36):
to you. Don't take what they are giving you. Go
find the writers you love, the publications you trust, and
go to their sites and see what they're giving you.
Every morning every week. However, whatever frequency you want to use,
go to them, Go to the sources and find out
for yourself rather than having someone feed you your diet.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
That's great. Fighte that algorithm. Thank you so much. He
is John J. Miller.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Check out all of his writing. Such a fantastic person.
Get all his books.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
Also.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
I didn't get to talk about that, but he's written
many books and he's just fantastic.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Check him out John J.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
Miller.
Speaker 4 (33:11):
Thanks so much, Cheryl, thanks for having on the show.
I love what you do.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
Thanks so much for joining us on the Carol Marco
which show. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.
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