April 18, 2025 • 36 mins
Hour 2 of the Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show features an engaging discussion with former federal prosecutor Andy McCarthy to discuss the mortgage fraud case against New York Attorney General Letitia James. It doesn’t look good for the woman who staked her career on putting Donald Trump in jail.
McCarthy analyzes the potential charges and implications of mortgage fraud allegations against James, emphasizing the simplicity of the case and the likelihood of her facing serious consequences. The conversation delves into the political motivations behind the case and the interplay between federal and state prosecutions.
The hosts then pivot to a broader discussion on accountability, particularly in the context of the COVID-19 pandemic. They highlight the need for transparency and declassification of relevant intelligence to understand the origins of the virus and hold responsible parties accountable. This segment underscores the importance of truth and the public's right to know the facts about the pandemic.
Former Congressman Mike Gallagher, now the head of defense at Palantir, joined Clay and Buck to discuss covid accountability and the lab leak cover-up. Gallagher also talks about the technological advancements in defense and the role of American companies in supporting the military. He emphasizes the need for a diverse ecosystem of defense technology companies to maintain the United States' strategic edge. Gallagher also touches on the cultural and political challenges facing America, advocating for a return to common sense and truth in public discourse.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back into play and Buck. We're joined now by
our friend Andy McCarthy of a National Review and Fox News.
Over twenty years, he was a assistant US attorney in
the Southern District of New York. Prosecuted a lot of cases. Andy,
it's been a while. Happy twenty twenty twenty twenty five. Whoops?
How you doing.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
I'm doing great, but you're doing even better. Buck, congratulations, thank.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
You, thank you. I'm very excited. And you know what, Andy,
I love my little son so much. Even if his
favorite sport is baseball, We're gonna get along just great.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Well, it doesn't get easier when they get to be
twenty two, I can.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Tell you twenty two.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Yeah, So no, we're very excited for her. Thank you
so much for that. All right now, I gotta have
a little bit of a hard turn here, Andy. The
Letitia James stuff Attorney General. You've seen. I know that
there hasn't been a charge brought so far, but she's
spoken out about it. Clearly there's smoke, if you will,
around the issue. What is your top line on this one?
(01:01):
I mean, do you think this is gonna go gonna
go badly for her? Do we just not know yet.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
What do you think, Well, I think it's gonna go
badly for But what I like most about this story, Buck,
is that when I was a young land my father's
favorite expression was that people who live in glasshouses shouldn't
throw wild parties, and I think I think poor Tis
James may end up in that category. It looks to
(01:27):
me like, you know, none of the stuff that they're
looking at her for as the crime of the century,
but you know, she managed to turn something trumpt did
that wasn't a crime into a half a billion dollars fiasco.
So if I were she, I would strap in because
I think they're pretty serious about this.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
So this is, uh, this is I think interesting for
you to analyze because, as you well know, as a prosecutor,
sometimes you can be convinced that somebody's committed a crime,
but it's really very difficult to explain that in a coherent,
easy to comprehend way for a jury, right, jury's just
a gathering of normal people, and sometimes criminal prosecutions require
(02:09):
very convoluted explanations. This one is so incredibly simple for
a chief legal officer of the State of New York
to be applying for a mortgage, which the vast majority
of Americans will at some point in their lives apply
for a mortgage themselves, and to click that she is
a resident of the state of Virginia, effectively when she's
(02:33):
saying that that's our primary residence. And then again these
are the allegations to also say that she is married
to her dad, presumably they have the same last name,
and they're trying to just get through the process without
being noticed. There because a married couple dual income typically
lower mortgage rate, primary residence typically lower mortgage rate than
(02:54):
an investment income home, many people understand that very much.
What is her toy fins here? Presuming that those accusations
are accurate, how in the world can she stay as
ag and how can there not be charges broad because again,
this is a very easy crime to prove.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Yeah, Clai, I think that I always want to hear
what they say the first time that it comes up publicly,
And what she's saying, basically is it's politically motivated.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
When you're starting to say stuff like that, that means
you don't have a defense on the facts, and you're
trying to get people to not look at these facts yep.
And she knows that because she's made that claim herself
with any number of people that she's targeted. Often I
think she has in fact targeted people for political reasons.
But when people have a good defense on the facts,
(03:49):
they usually try to sit to the facts. I think
the Justice Department hasn't charged yet simply because they have
to have some decent period of time go by between
the referral and when they bring the charges to make
it look like it's not all orchestrated. And I do
(04:10):
think if I'm Pam BONDI I do want somebody who's
experienced at COJ or whatever the US Attorney's offices is
going to be in to kick the tires on up
a little bit because it does as you just described
it, it looks like too much of a layup to be true.
But I expect them to charge pretty quickly.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Well, this is what I that was. The Next thing
I want to ask you, Andy, is that you were
somebody prosecuting cases a whole range, everything from like the
blind shake and really serious stuff but down to more
you know, fraud and financial crimes things like that at
the Southern District. And let me just ask you, I
remember you told me once you like, look, if you
were guilty, you didn't want me to be your prosecutor.
(04:49):
If she did this thing, she's pretty like it's easy
to prove, right, I mean, this is a slam dunk
if she if the facts are what we believe them
to be, and you were the prosecutor on this case,
are you sitting down with her saying you want to
take a plea deal? Because trust me, this isn't going
to go your way.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
I think I would be waiting for her to come
to me because, you know, in the normal situation like
that fuck you're you're looking for, you're looking at a
criminal organization, and there's ways to go up the chain. Here,
she's the top of the chain, right, I mean, I'd
be stunned if she had anyone else to hand up
(05:28):
that would be helpful. So I think that, you know,
for Trump wants to nail her. I think, no matter what,
she might be the repository of in the way of information,
and as you just pointed out, like I had a
lot of complicated cases, but the bread and butter of
a prosecutor's office and even the US Attorney's office in
(05:51):
New York were these kinds of pretty simple single or
you know, very few transactions, crimes that are pretty linear
to prove. And the good thing about bringing more against
a public official from the prosecutor's standpoint is members of
the public who get caught up in like you know,
(06:12):
niggling regulation and stuff like that, but juries could be
sympathetic to them because they're kind of in the same
boat themselves, some of them in their lives. But when
it's a public official, and particularly one who in a
very persnickety, picky yearn way, has gone after other people
and in fact has not only gone after them on
(06:34):
pretty tendentious interpretations of statutes, but actually I think has stretched.
Like the statute she brought against Trump with the consumer
protection statute, it had never been brought in the context
of that case. She's not going to get any sympathy
from a normal jury.
Speaker 4 (06:52):
Okay, So you bodcasked about time frame. I'm curious what
time frame you would think on this. I'm also curious
Virginia and New York. Would this be something where you
bring multiple federal charges. In your mind, given that the
one claim is based in Virginia property the other claim
(07:13):
based in New York, would you link them. What about
state prosecution that is different than a federal prosecution, because
I'm sure there's state statutes that could be followed here
kind of time frame and bigger picture. How do you
think federal state interplay might happen here? I mentioned it
because there may be some state protection because you've got
(07:34):
a Democrat governor and Democrat based apparatus in New York,
whereas you've got a Republican governor and a Republican attorney
general in the state of Virginia. How does that all
play in in your mind? What would the scope and
magnitude look like as you analyze charges being brought and
when they might be brought?
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Yeah, I say two things about it. From the federal
side play. I don't know if they see this as
the way I do, but having been in a lot
of these cases that ended up in turf battles, no
matter whose feelings gets bruised, it's always better for one
prosecutor's office to take the case. Split Up cases and
split up investigators are never efficient. So whatever Bondy decides,
(08:16):
if I were giving or advice, I'd say pick one
US attorney's office and let them run the whole thing,
including if there's any prosecutions kind of the district. And
then as far as the state stuff is concerned, I
would tell you that New York is a dream for
federal prosecutors because New York State, unusually in the country,
(08:38):
follows something that's known as equitable double jeopardy rather than
normal double jeopardy. So in most situations you have dual sovereignty,
which means the Feds in the states are different sovereign.
So a federal prosecution doesn't prevent you from being prosecuted
on pretty much the same crimes by the state. But
in New York, if the Fed bring an indictment, the
(09:01):
state is barred from bringing any charges that arise out
of the transaction that the Sense have charged because the
New York State concerts constitution and that regard is very
defendant friendly. So to the extent they can set up
shop in New York, they can really call the tune.
They probably have a little bit more competition from the
(09:23):
state prosecutors in Virginia perhaps, but you know, mayar Is
in Virginia is an excellent Yeah.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
Would you if you were advising the DOJ and they
may be listening right now, would you say New York
or Virginia. And because I look at the jury pool,
potentially you would get but you've prosecuted federally in New York,
which do you think would be more likely to if
you do think there's any difference convict a Democrat official,
(09:51):
And which of the forums would you. Let's pretend that
you were the attorney general and ultimately they present this
and you say, okay, there's evidence. You said you'd like
to roll them together, where do you think the preferred
forum would be?
Speaker 2 (10:05):
I would I would set up shop federally in New
York in a case like the one you've described, which
is pretty blatant, I wouldn't be overly worried about whether
in the Southern District of New York you could get
a prosecution of a plan, you know, a conviction of
a politician on those kinds of facts. Notwithstanding that it's
you know, it's a blue state New York in general.
(10:27):
But like the Southern District doesn't just pull from Manhattan,
it pulls from the Bronx, which Trump did pretty good
in actually in the election, and then from places outside
the Bronx, you know, counties up and down the Hudson River,
so the juries there are not as bad for the
FEDS as you would think for Republican administration. And then
just because I know him and I know how good
(10:51):
he is, I'd probably just let Jason Maaris run with
the state stuff and just combinate with him on timing.
And I think that would make it very unpleasant for her.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Andy. You know, we we we looked this up before
because I had that recollection of very prominent state prosecutor
in Maryland, Maryland, marilynd Marilynn Moseby, and you know, she
got hit on a mortgage fraud too and was convicted
and was also convicted of some other you know, fraudulent
(11:22):
financial activity, but she got twelve months home confinement. I
bring this up because what do you think. I mean,
I know it's been a while and the guidelines maybe
have changed, whatever, But in your day, somebody like this
who should have known better. Who's a lawyer, they do
a let's say it's a it's a couple of you know,
a couple of perjury counts from the mortgage for the
(11:43):
mortgage fraud. What kind of a sentence are they usually
looking at?
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Probably in excess of five years, you know, the dollar
amount would make a big difference, So I think a
lot would depend on you know, for example, I saw
that she had one property that was leveraged her like
almost six hundred thousand dollars. You know, if that turns
out to be real, like a real six hundred thousand dollars,
(12:09):
then that's really bad. On the other hand, I read
someplace elf that two of the mortgages might be fictitious,
and that she might have just been pretending to get
a better situation with the other one that she was
borrowing from. I I'm not sure exactly how that works,
but you know, the dollar amount, to the extent it's real,
is very significant in driving the sentencing guidelines in a
(12:32):
fraud case. The other thing you have to bear in mind,
of course, is that while we don't want to see
her get cut any breaks, and she is a public official,
so there's a betrayal of trust here that wouldn't be
an a normal case, you also don't want to see
her get treated worse than the average person is. So
she's a sixty six year old woman who I think
does not have any criminal record, and obviously it's sentencing
(12:55):
time that should be something that cuts in her benefit.
But the big thing for her, or she's a public
figure and this would just demolish her in terms of
her legacy, and you know, in a lot of ways,
that's you know, perhaps more important than whatever punitive sentencing measures.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
Do you know?
Speaker 4 (13:14):
And building on that, we're talking to Anny McCarthy. If
you are the chief law enforcement official as of the
state of New York, as she would be right now
as attorney general, and you are charged with felony mortgage activities,
as we have been discussing, she maybe do you immediately
get removed from office? Does the governor do it? Do
you happen to know off the top of your head
(13:36):
what the process would then become in New York.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Yeah, there's a lot to play with New York. That's
theoretical because it's never been tried before. So like, for example,
remember with Bragg, we heard a lot of stuff about
the only official in the state that has the authority
to remove a district attorney is the governor. And I
believe that would probably be true on the New York
(14:00):
constitutional law with respects to the Attorney general. But it's
it's hard to say that with any confidence because it's
never been done before. So we'd have to see. And
that's the kind of thing that if Hulkle tried to
do it to get tied up in court for a
long time. And the other thing is Hulkle was worried
about her own election prospects. She needs black progressives in
(14:23):
New York like nobody's business. I mean, she barely won
the last time around, and I think she would have
lost had was it Lee Elden. I think right, people
who should the people who would have otherwise elected Zelden
were had moved to Florida during COVID, So you know
that's how she escaped that time. But her polls are
(14:45):
not great in New York. She's not popular in New York.
This this, this measure she put in for congestion pricing,
on the on the traffic stuff is very unpopular. I
have a hard time thinking she'd she'd fire James if
she could, because it would be revolting on progressives in
(15:05):
New York.
Speaker 4 (15:07):
Andy, enjoy the games. This is going to be a
heck of a story going forward. I wanted to get
you on because I knew you had particular expertise. I
think our audience is going to be better informed almost
anybody in the country on this Thank.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
You for the time a man, Thanks guys, Thank you.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
Sandy McCarthy, playoff time. As we just said in the
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Speaker 4 (16:21):
Welcome back in Clay, Travis buck Sexton Show. Appreciate all
of you.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
Man.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
I love Andy McCarthy if you are out there.
Speaker 4 (16:28):
I cannot imagine with this Letitia James story, which by
the way, is being ignored of course by the Washington
Post and the New York Times. Can you imagine if
they had had Trump dead to rights on a simple
mortgage form, or if they had any Republican dead to
rights like this, it would be on the front page everywhere.
But I'm telling you, these charges are coming, and I
(16:49):
am very confident in Jason Maarz, who is the Attorney
General of Virginia, to handle this on a state level.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Clay, you and I, I mean you actually are a
low licensed practice. But like I could be your you know,
your paralegal, open and shuck, and this would not be Yeah, okay,
if the facts are what we believe them to be,
this is not not a hard thing to do. So
she's gonna have to They're gonna have to play the
game out with a hoping they can get a jury
(17:17):
and a holdout in the jury or some kind of
a political nullification.
Speaker 4 (17:22):
That's right, That's totally right. And by the way, We're
going to be joined by Mike Gallagher. We mentioned a
minute ago Mike Gallagher, former congressman from Wisconsin. I believe,
I think Green Bay area, where they're having the NFL
Draft next week. He wrote a great piece in the
Wall Street Journal about the need for a COVID reckoning
and I thought his piece was fabulous. And then this
(17:43):
morning I woke up and I saw on social media
go to COVID dot gov and Donald Trump's team has
just opened a mega can on Fauci and others. You
need to check it out.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
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a qualifying plan from pure Talk. All right, welcome back
to clay an Buck. We are joined now by Mike Gallagher.
(19:03):
He is head of defense at Palentier. He's got a
really interesting piece in the Wall Street Journal, Time for
accountability on the COVID lab leak cover up. Mike, appreciate
you making the time for us.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
What's an honor to be with you.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Let's just jump into it. You got into this in
your piece. What does accountability look like? What does the
public need to know? What steps have to be taken
now when it comes to the lab leak cover up.
I see. I love that there's a picture of Fauci
touching a little fake virus in your op ed. He's
the absolute worst. What needs to happen.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
Well, I can't claim credit for the artwork that comes
with these op eds. I just do the words. But
it was it was quite nice to me.
Speaker 7 (19:46):
It just starts with the basic step of complete declassification.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
Of relevant intelligence.
Speaker 7 (19:52):
If you remember, we actually passed the law when I
was in Congress requiring that the Biden administration do just that,
but they they didn't comply with the law. When they
finally did an investigation into the origins of COVID, it
was not serious. What came out was heavily redacted. It
was a regurgitation of the prevailing consensus. And so there's
(20:12):
been no accountability for our own scientific establishment, which was
profoundly corrupted. Our own intelligence community was parroting the corrupted
consensus of the scientists, and even the authors of the
proximal origins article, which spread a lot of this misinformation,
have not been held accountable. If the opposite has happened,
(20:33):
they continue to get awards. Fauci continues to be lauded,
and we have centers named after Fauci, and without that
basic step of accountability, people just aren't going to trust
the government. They're not going to trust the health institutions,
the scientific institutions, and therefore we're less prepared to prevent
that future pandemic. So I think accountability starts with getting
the information out there, even if it's super embarrassing too.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
The government agencies that allowed tax dollars.
Speaker 7 (21:00):
To be fundled, funneled to corrupt nonprofits like the Eco
Health Alliance and wind their way into the hands of
the Muhan Institute of Virology, there's been no accountability thus far.
Speaker 4 (21:13):
That's why I read your piece and I appreciate you
coming on with us. I know how busy you are
in your new job, and we'll talk about that maybe
in a moment. But trump for people who do not know,
I encourage you to go to COVID dot gov today
and look at everything that's being laid out there. We're
five years after COVID and Buck and I focus on
(21:34):
this a lot because we're kind of history nerds, and
one of the good things about time passing is over time,
history I like to think becomes more honest about what
really transpired. Are you optimistic that twenty forty years from
now will get a more honest version of what happened
and the failures of this nation when it comes to
(21:57):
responding to COVID in generations ahead. Or do you think
the same people that are trying to stop us now
will continue to fight for generations into the future to
avoid acknowledging how wrong they were.
Speaker 7 (22:10):
Well, I would only say I don't think we have twenty,
let alone forty years right. We had a report a
few months ago that in February, researchers that the will
have intevivirology had experimented with a new bat coronavirus that
looked a lot similar to COVID nineteen. What you learn
is you sort of dig into the nature of what
happened in Muhan, but lab accidents more broadly is that
(22:32):
these are actually more common than we realize, and so
part of the push for accountability is based on the
idea that the risks of a pandemic like the one
we went through with COVID nineteen, or with one that
could be far worse if a future virus were just
as pathenogenic or more lethal. Rather, those risks have not
(22:54):
gone down. We haven't learned any lessons, and so we
need accountability on a year timeline, not a twenty year
time which is why I was very glad to see
that President Trump launched his website. I would encourage all
Americans to go to the website right now and really
lays out five basic common sense truths that the government
heretofore is not acknowledged. One, the virus possessed biological characteristics
(23:18):
that you couldn't find in nature. To all the data
suggests it's stemmed from a single introduction into humans.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
Not multiple spillovers like previous pandemics.
Speaker 7 (23:27):
Three, That the Wuhan Institute had conducted gain to function
of research at inadequate safety levels, or that the researchers
at the Wuhan it's too fell ill with COVID months
before the virus was allegedly discovered at a web market.
And finally, after all these years, there's no scientific evidence
of a natural origin that has surfaced. That alone has
done more to advance the case of accountability than under
(23:50):
four years of President Joe Biden.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
So we need to press the gas.
Speaker 7 (23:53):
We need to hold our own agencies accountable, and again
we need to declassify all the relevant information.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
Mike, I want to do it a little bit here
and lean into another area of expertise something you're dealing
with day in and day out now as head of
Defense at Palenteer Technologies. I think one of the lessons
that anybody paying attention to what's going on over in
Ukraine with Russia, uh and and especially if they're looking
looking ahead at the possibility at some point in the
(24:19):
future of some kind of hot conflict with China, is
technology is going to be absolutely critical. We're looking at drones,
We're looking at a future of telecommunications and high speed
computing making decisions on the battlefield. That is truly the
stuff of sci fi from not long ago, and it's
it's becoming reality now every day. But with that said,
(24:40):
I know Palenteers involved in the high tech edge of
things with defense. It wasn't long ago where Google was
upset there. There was like an uprising at Google over
the prospect of doing anything that helped the United States
Pentagon right, like as if Silicon Valley was its own
(25:00):
little fiefdom that did not actually become or was not
actually a part of the United States. Do you feel
like that is changing now? Do you feel like there's
an understanding that companies that are US based, that employ
Americans have a role in defense, and that means that
they should take a patriotic position on Yeah, we will
work with the United States Pentagon.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
I think it is changing.
Speaker 7 (25:23):
I mean Google has actually recently changed its position. And
if you remember at the time the reasons so many
of us got upset when Google abandoned Project maven Is,
they were simultaneously trying to work with China an AI
exactly an AI center in Beijing. It was substantly revealed
there was a project that they did abandon, but a
project they were exploring to center internet search in China.
(25:44):
So the message was, well, We're cool working with a
genocile communist regime, but not with the American military, because
the American military occasionally has to do things like kill
Salafe jihadis in order to keep America safe. And so
into the brief step Talenteer, which was unapologetic in its
belief that America is the greatest country in the history
(26:05):
of the world, that we should have the most lethal
military in the world, and that some folks, be they
terrorists or other bad guys, need to be killed occasionally
and I do think what we're seeing on the battlefield
in Ukraine is forcing people to re examine their previously
held assumptions.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
There's a lot of capital in the venture capital.
Speaker 7 (26:24):
Community that is trying to flow into defense technology companies.
And finally, I would say not to talk to my
own book, but when you have a company like Talent
that spent two decades trying to survive the so called
Valley of Death because it isn't easy for a defense
technology company to succeed because the Pentagon can be a
difficult customer, it proves to other companies that are trying
(26:44):
to do the same that it's possible to survive. It's
possible to go public, it's possible to have a mission
focused company, and that also is successful financially, which is
why we founded something called the First Breakfast Initiative, which
is designed to make it easier for non traditional defense
technology companies to survive and thrive because we need more, right,
(27:04):
we can't just have five primes that control everything. We
need the primes to survive. They're always going to be there,
but we need a more diverse ecosystem of defense technology companies.
If we are going to have a hope of deterring
China from invading Taiwan, as well as simultaneously going after
terrorist in the Middle East and the other threat actors.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
We have to deal with.
Speaker 4 (27:23):
What you just said I think is important and also
to me connects with your editorial in the Wall Street Journal,
which is about the importance of truth and the commitment
to fact. When you see so much of what's going
on in America today and around the world, whether it's
celebrating the United Healthcare CEOs killer, whether it is down
in Frisco, Texas, Carmelo Anthony stabs a seventeen year old
(27:48):
in the heart and raises four hundred thousand dollars. As
you just mentioned, so many of these elite institutions out
there had people marching in favor of the perpetrators of
October seven. Why are we having such a difference. This
is a big philosophical question, But why do you think
we're having such a challenge, especially going into the Holy
(28:09):
week of good and evil recognizing them and being willing
to stand on the side of good.
Speaker 7 (28:16):
Well, I do think, you know, to really take it,
make it biblical and maybe betray my Catholic perspective. I
do think as religion has retreated in terms of its
role in American life, people have sought out other gods,
and in some ways, politics or you know, a political
tribe can become a cult and so kind of.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
A god shaped whole in people's hearts.
Speaker 7 (28:42):
And I think correspondingly, there's also this epistemological crisis that
we have in America where people no longer trust any
sources of information, right, Like, we have this very balkanized
media landscape where nobody really knows where to go to
get truth. And the risk of that is people can
kind of opt in to whatever reality they just want
to live in, and it's very hard to have a
(29:03):
coherent conversation based on facts, based on logic. As a
result that being said, you know, as a product of
representing Northeast Wisconsin, where we're gonna host the NFL drafts
here shortly by the way, everybody.
Speaker 4 (29:15):
I will be watching, I'm very excited.
Speaker 7 (29:20):
It's a huge, huge thing for Green Bay, Wisconsin, a
huge thing. You know, I think most people are just
common sense, right there was this revolution of common sense
that President Trump talked about. I mean people were afraid
initially to speak their minds, you know, particularly in COVID.
But people started to see what was happening to our
kids with schools being shut down, was happened happened to
(29:42):
our loved ones who were being locked up, and they thought,
this doesn't make any sense. I do have this abiding
faith in the common sense of the American people. Right now,
they're demanding change and reform in the basic institutions of government.
I think Trump is an instrument for that that change.
It can be very disruptive at times, and that's what
the American people want, and so.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
We have to get back to that.
Speaker 7 (30:02):
And at the end of the day, like we have
to realize, of course America's not perfect, but we're the
good guys, right we are the greatest country in human history.
That comes with a great responsibility. But the rest of
the world is looking to us for leadership, to lead
with courage. If you remember when China took over Hong
Kong and hundreds of thousands of people came out into
the streets to protest, what were they waving. They were
(30:23):
waving American flags, right. They were looking to us as
an example for a free society, and that's something we
all have a duty to maintain.
Speaker 4 (30:31):
Well said, have a good Holy Week and weekend, and
we'll talk to you again, hopefully soon. Encourage people to
go check out that editorial in the Wall Street Journal.
Thanks guys, it's Mike Gallagher, now inside of Defense Universe,
but previously Green Bay, Wisconsin congressman. And yes, the NFL
draft coming up soon, and he just talked about good
(30:52):
and evil Holy Week. This should be a joyous time
throughout Israel between the Passover and Easter holidays. Not the
case this year because there is a constant reminder missile
attacks can occur at any given moment. That's why we're
happy and proud and honored to partner with the International
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(31:13):
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Speaker 5 (31:51):
Stories are freedom stories of America, inspirational stories that you
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Speaker 3 (31:56):
All each day.
Speaker 6 (31:58):
Spend time with Clay and find them on the free
iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
Welcome back into Clay and Buck.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
I just went down and got some Crocket coffee. I
have it here in my hand. It is delicious. Ten
percent of our profits goes a tunnel the tower, so
you're doing a good thing for all of us. When
you support Crocket Coffee, you also get yourself a sign
coffee of Clay's American Playbook. Go use code book when
you go to Crocketcoffee dot com. The Mushroom Blend coffee
(32:28):
is now out. You guys should all check that out.
If you ever had mushroom coffee before. A little less caffeine,
a little earthier, a lot of minerals and cool stuff
in it. It's delicious. Kerrie loves it, So go check
out Mushroom Coffee totally. We'd have a new product we're
very excited about. Go to Crocket Coffee dot complete subscribe
or if you want to try it one off. That's
fine too, and use code book if you want to
sign Coffye of Clay's American Playbook. Clay, the CIA has
(32:51):
cleared my book, so it will happen at some point.
It took a long time, so it will happen everyone.
I know, I've been talking about it forever, but I
had to get it all anyway. So we will get
into that and more. Oh a third hour, We're going
to talk height and dating and a little bit of
a throwback to a fun anniversary that I think some
(33:11):
of you will recall. We'll get into all of that.
But first up, Bill in Bend or again wants away
And what's up Bill?
Speaker 3 (33:19):
Oh?
Speaker 8 (33:20):
Hi, Hi? Yeah, Bill and Bend and the Texas murder
that took place, and the you know, kind of sudden
purchase of a home and new vehicle by the family
you know, and Clay. This is kind of up your
alley because they has to do with law. But in
Texas there's a bankruptcy exemption for the entire value of
(33:43):
a home and the entire value of an auto. So
when the parents of the murdered victim go to have
a wrongful death civil suit and probably will be awarded
a big judgment in that of the the murdered.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
The great point the murder will have.
Speaker 8 (34:01):
A nice home and a nice car that can't be touched.
So I think my thought is that they had some
you know, legal advice right up front to start using
some of that money in the charitable account to start
making those of purchases that cannot ever be attached by
a creditor. And I'm just wondering why those funds aren't
(34:26):
trying to be attached right now.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
That's a that's a great, great, great, a stude point.
Thank you so much. I would you know, Clay, in Florida,
there's a there's a homestead homestead Act, right, and so
they can't if it is your primary residence in a
civil judgment, I believe unless there's some specific criminal activity
involving the home, they cannot take your home.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
Correct.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
If you met a one million dollar home in Florida
and you lose a judgment and you declare bankruptcy, they
cannot take your home.
Speaker 4 (34:52):
I remember that becoming an issue with the inrun collapse.
Some of those guys had tens of millions of dollars
in home homes and they are protected and By the way,
we just had Ken Paxton, who is the Attorney General
of Texas. I think there should be laws. This would
be my take that if you are raising funds for
(35:13):
legal defense, that none of that money can be used
for anything other than legal defense, because otherwise you're allowing
people to take money and profit offense. And his call,
it's a fabulous call, because if you go buy a
million dollar home, there will be at some point a
wrongful death lawsuit. That million dollar home would be protected
(35:35):
from being able to be seized, such that that home
could theoretically be purchased and then not able to be
in any way ever taken. And it's being basically profiting
off of an awful act. So I think in the
state of Texas, Ken Paxton, who was just on with
us earlier this week, the attorney general, I would even
(35:55):
suggest if you're raising funds marketed directly for legal defense,
that it would be in some way a misallocation and
misappropriation of funds if that money is used for anything
other than legal defense.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Let's get Steven Pennsylvania. Steve, we got about forty seconds.
Wanted to get you in. Go ahead.
Speaker 9 (36:15):
Yeah, just hopefully a good Easter message for everyone. It's
my mom. Was in the hospital. She was dying and
we were all around her and she was non responsive,
and then the priest came in to give her last
write and when he took her hand and said hello, Betty,
(36:38):
she woke up for the first time in a week
and said hello father, and he graved dal I'll marry
with her, and then she died.
Speaker 4 (36:50):
I appreciate that story. I think it's resonating with many people.
Last Hour, next
Welcome back into play and Buck. We're joined now by
our friend Andy McCarthy of a National Review and Fox News.
Over twenty years, he was a assistant US attorney in
the Southern District of New York. Prosecuted a lot of cases. Andy,
it's been a while. Happy twenty twenty twenty twenty five. Whoops?
How you doing.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
I'm doing great, but you're doing even better. Buck, congratulations, thank.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
You, thank you. I'm very excited. And you know what, Andy,
I love my little son so much. Even if his
favorite sport is baseball, We're gonna get along just great.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Well, it doesn't get easier when they get to be
twenty two, I can.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Tell you twenty two.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Yeah, So no, we're very excited for her. Thank you
so much for that. All right now, I gotta have
a little bit of a hard turn here, Andy. The
Letitia James stuff Attorney General. You've seen. I know that
there hasn't been a charge brought so far, but she's
spoken out about it. Clearly there's smoke, if you will,
around the issue. What is your top line on this one?
(01:01):
I mean, do you think this is gonna go gonna
go badly for her? Do we just not know yet.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
What do you think, Well, I think it's gonna go
badly for But what I like most about this story, Buck,
is that when I was a young land my father's
favorite expression was that people who live in glasshouses shouldn't
throw wild parties, and I think I think poor Tis
James may end up in that category. It looks to
(01:27):
me like, you know, none of the stuff that they're
looking at her for as the crime of the century,
but you know, she managed to turn something trumpt did
that wasn't a crime into a half a billion dollars fiasco.
So if I were she, I would strap in because
I think they're pretty serious about this.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
So this is, uh, this is I think interesting for
you to analyze because, as you well know, as a prosecutor,
sometimes you can be convinced that somebody's committed a crime,
but it's really very difficult to explain that in a coherent,
easy to comprehend way for a jury, right, jury's just
a gathering of normal people, and sometimes criminal prosecutions require
(02:09):
very convoluted explanations. This one is so incredibly simple for
a chief legal officer of the State of New York
to be applying for a mortgage, which the vast majority
of Americans will at some point in their lives apply
for a mortgage themselves, and to click that she is
a resident of the state of Virginia, effectively when she's
(02:33):
saying that that's our primary residence. And then again these
are the allegations to also say that she is married
to her dad, presumably they have the same last name,
and they're trying to just get through the process without
being noticed. There because a married couple dual income typically
lower mortgage rate, primary residence typically lower mortgage rate than
(02:54):
an investment income home, many people understand that very much.
What is her toy fins here? Presuming that those accusations
are accurate, how in the world can she stay as
ag and how can there not be charges broad because again,
this is a very easy crime to prove.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Yeah, Clai, I think that I always want to hear
what they say the first time that it comes up publicly,
And what she's saying, basically is it's politically motivated.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
When you're starting to say stuff like that, that means
you don't have a defense on the facts, and you're
trying to get people to not look at these facts yep.
And she knows that because she's made that claim herself
with any number of people that she's targeted. Often I
think she has in fact targeted people for political reasons.
But when people have a good defense on the facts,
(03:49):
they usually try to sit to the facts. I think
the Justice Department hasn't charged yet simply because they have
to have some decent period of time go by between
the referral and when they bring the charges to make
it look like it's not all orchestrated. And I do
(04:10):
think if I'm Pam BONDI I do want somebody who's
experienced at COJ or whatever the US Attorney's offices is
going to be in to kick the tires on up
a little bit because it does as you just described
it, it looks like too much of a layup to be true.
But I expect them to charge pretty quickly.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Well, this is what I that was. The Next thing
I want to ask you, Andy, is that you were
somebody prosecuting cases a whole range, everything from like the
blind shake and really serious stuff but down to more
you know, fraud and financial crimes things like that at
the Southern District. And let me just ask you, I
remember you told me once you like, look, if you
were guilty, you didn't want me to be your prosecutor.
(04:49):
If she did this thing, she's pretty like it's easy
to prove, right, I mean, this is a slam dunk
if she if the facts are what we believe them
to be, and you were the prosecutor on this case,
are you sitting down with her saying you want to
take a plea deal? Because trust me, this isn't going
to go your way.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
I think I would be waiting for her to come
to me because, you know, in the normal situation like
that fuck you're you're looking for, you're looking at a
criminal organization, and there's ways to go up the chain. Here,
she's the top of the chain, right, I mean, I'd
be stunned if she had anyone else to hand up
(05:28):
that would be helpful. So I think that, you know,
for Trump wants to nail her. I think, no matter what,
she might be the repository of in the way of information,
and as you just pointed out, like I had a
lot of complicated cases, but the bread and butter of
a prosecutor's office and even the US Attorney's office in
(05:51):
New York were these kinds of pretty simple single or
you know, very few transactions, crimes that are pretty linear
to prove. And the good thing about bringing more against
a public official from the prosecutor's standpoint is members of
the public who get caught up in like you know,
(06:12):
niggling regulation and stuff like that, but juries could be
sympathetic to them because they're kind of in the same
boat themselves, some of them in their lives. But when
it's a public official, and particularly one who in a
very persnickety, picky yearn way, has gone after other people
and in fact has not only gone after them on
(06:34):
pretty tendentious interpretations of statutes, but actually I think has stretched.
Like the statute she brought against Trump with the consumer
protection statute, it had never been brought in the context
of that case. She's not going to get any sympathy
from a normal jury.
Speaker 4 (06:52):
Okay, So you bodcasked about time frame. I'm curious what
time frame you would think on this. I'm also curious
Virginia and New York. Would this be something where you
bring multiple federal charges. In your mind, given that the
one claim is based in Virginia property the other claim
(07:13):
based in New York, would you link them. What about
state prosecution that is different than a federal prosecution, because
I'm sure there's state statutes that could be followed here
kind of time frame and bigger picture. How do you
think federal state interplay might happen here? I mentioned it
because there may be some state protection because you've got
(07:34):
a Democrat governor and Democrat based apparatus in New York,
whereas you've got a Republican governor and a Republican attorney
general in the state of Virginia. How does that all
play in in your mind? What would the scope and
magnitude look like as you analyze charges being brought and
when they might be brought?
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Yeah, I say two things about it. From the federal
side play. I don't know if they see this as
the way I do, but having been in a lot
of these cases that ended up in turf battles, no
matter whose feelings gets bruised, it's always better for one
prosecutor's office to take the case. Split Up cases and
split up investigators are never efficient. So whatever Bondy decides,
(08:16):
if I were giving or advice, I'd say pick one
US attorney's office and let them run the whole thing,
including if there's any prosecutions kind of the district. And
then as far as the state stuff is concerned, I
would tell you that New York is a dream for
federal prosecutors because New York State, unusually in the country,
(08:38):
follows something that's known as equitable double jeopardy rather than
normal double jeopardy. So in most situations you have dual sovereignty,
which means the Feds in the states are different sovereign.
So a federal prosecution doesn't prevent you from being prosecuted
on pretty much the same crimes by the state. But
in New York, if the Fed bring an indictment, the
(09:01):
state is barred from bringing any charges that arise out
of the transaction that the Sense have charged because the
New York State concerts constitution and that regard is very
defendant friendly. So to the extent they can set up
shop in New York, they can really call the tune.
They probably have a little bit more competition from the
(09:23):
state prosecutors in Virginia perhaps, but you know, mayar Is
in Virginia is an excellent Yeah.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
Would you if you were advising the DOJ and they
may be listening right now, would you say New York
or Virginia. And because I look at the jury pool,
potentially you would get but you've prosecuted federally in New York,
which do you think would be more likely to if
you do think there's any difference convict a Democrat official,
(09:51):
And which of the forums would you. Let's pretend that
you were the attorney general and ultimately they present this
and you say, okay, there's evidence. You said you'd like
to roll them together, where do you think the preferred
forum would be?
Speaker 2 (10:05):
I would I would set up shop federally in New
York in a case like the one you've described, which
is pretty blatant, I wouldn't be overly worried about whether
in the Southern District of New York you could get
a prosecution of a plan, you know, a conviction of
a politician on those kinds of facts. Notwithstanding that it's
you know, it's a blue state New York in general.
(10:27):
But like the Southern District doesn't just pull from Manhattan,
it pulls from the Bronx, which Trump did pretty good
in actually in the election, and then from places outside
the Bronx, you know, counties up and down the Hudson River,
so the juries there are not as bad for the
FEDS as you would think for Republican administration. And then
just because I know him and I know how good
(10:51):
he is, I'd probably just let Jason Maaris run with
the state stuff and just combinate with him on timing.
And I think that would make it very unpleasant for her.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Andy. You know, we we we looked this up before
because I had that recollection of very prominent state prosecutor
in Maryland, Maryland, marilynd Marilynn Moseby, and you know, she
got hit on a mortgage fraud too and was convicted
and was also convicted of some other you know, fraudulent
(11:22):
financial activity, but she got twelve months home confinement. I
bring this up because what do you think. I mean,
I know it's been a while and the guidelines maybe
have changed, whatever, But in your day, somebody like this
who should have known better. Who's a lawyer, they do
a let's say it's a it's a couple of you know,
a couple of perjury counts from the mortgage for the
(11:43):
mortgage fraud. What kind of a sentence are they usually
looking at?
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Probably in excess of five years, you know, the dollar
amount would make a big difference, So I think a
lot would depend on you know, for example, I saw
that she had one property that was leveraged her like
almost six hundred thousand dollars. You know, if that turns
out to be real, like a real six hundred thousand dollars,
(12:09):
then that's really bad. On the other hand, I read
someplace elf that two of the mortgages might be fictitious,
and that she might have just been pretending to get
a better situation with the other one that she was
borrowing from. I I'm not sure exactly how that works,
but you know, the dollar amount, to the extent it's real,
is very significant in driving the sentencing guidelines in a
(12:32):
fraud case. The other thing you have to bear in mind,
of course, is that while we don't want to see
her get cut any breaks, and she is a public official,
so there's a betrayal of trust here that wouldn't be
an a normal case, you also don't want to see
her get treated worse than the average person is. So
she's a sixty six year old woman who I think
does not have any criminal record, and obviously it's sentencing
(12:55):
time that should be something that cuts in her benefit.
But the big thing for her, or she's a public
figure and this would just demolish her in terms of
her legacy, and you know, in a lot of ways,
that's you know, perhaps more important than whatever punitive sentencing measures.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
Do you know?
Speaker 4 (13:14):
And building on that, we're talking to Anny McCarthy. If
you are the chief law enforcement official as of the
state of New York, as she would be right now
as attorney general, and you are charged with felony mortgage activities,
as we have been discussing, she maybe do you immediately
get removed from office? Does the governor do it? Do
you happen to know off the top of your head
(13:36):
what the process would then become in New York.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Yeah, there's a lot to play with New York. That's
theoretical because it's never been tried before. So like, for example,
remember with Bragg, we heard a lot of stuff about
the only official in the state that has the authority
to remove a district attorney is the governor. And I
believe that would probably be true on the New York
(14:00):
constitutional law with respects to the Attorney general. But it's
it's hard to say that with any confidence because it's
never been done before. So we'd have to see. And
that's the kind of thing that if Hulkle tried to
do it to get tied up in court for a
long time. And the other thing is Hulkle was worried
about her own election prospects. She needs black progressives in
(14:23):
New York like nobody's business. I mean, she barely won
the last time around, and I think she would have
lost had was it Lee Elden. I think right, people
who should the people who would have otherwise elected Zelden
were had moved to Florida during COVID, So you know
that's how she escaped that time. But her polls are
(14:45):
not great in New York. She's not popular in New York.
This this, this measure she put in for congestion pricing,
on the on the traffic stuff is very unpopular. I
have a hard time thinking she'd she'd fire James if
she could, because it would be revolting on progressives in
(15:05):
New York.
Speaker 4 (15:07):
Andy, enjoy the games. This is going to be a
heck of a story going forward. I wanted to get
you on because I knew you had particular expertise. I
think our audience is going to be better informed almost
anybody in the country on this Thank.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
You for the time a man, Thanks guys, Thank you.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
Sandy McCarthy, playoff time. As we just said in the
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Speaker 5 (16:07):
Stories are freedom stories of America, inspirational stories that you
unite us.
Speaker 3 (16:13):
All each day.
Speaker 6 (16:14):
Spend time with Clay and find them on the free
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Speaker 4 (16:21):
Welcome back in Clay, Travis buck Sexton Show. Appreciate all
of you.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
Man.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
I love Andy McCarthy if you are out there.
Speaker 4 (16:28):
I cannot imagine with this Letitia James story, which by
the way, is being ignored of course by the Washington
Post and the New York Times. Can you imagine if
they had had Trump dead to rights on a simple
mortgage form, or if they had any Republican dead to
rights like this, it would be on the front page everywhere.
But I'm telling you, these charges are coming, and I
(16:49):
am very confident in Jason Maarz, who is the Attorney
General of Virginia, to handle this on a state level.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Clay, you and I, I mean you actually are a
low licensed practice. But like I could be your you know,
your paralegal, open and shuck, and this would not be Yeah, okay,
if the facts are what we believe them to be,
this is not not a hard thing to do. So
she's gonna have to They're gonna have to play the
game out with a hoping they can get a jury
(17:17):
and a holdout in the jury or some kind of
a political nullification.
Speaker 4 (17:22):
That's right, That's totally right. And by the way, We're
going to be joined by Mike Gallagher. We mentioned a
minute ago Mike Gallagher, former congressman from Wisconsin. I believe,
I think Green Bay area, where they're having the NFL
Draft next week. He wrote a great piece in the
Wall Street Journal about the need for a COVID reckoning
and I thought his piece was fabulous. And then this
(17:43):
morning I woke up and I saw on social media
go to COVID dot gov and Donald Trump's team has
just opened a mega can on Fauci and others. You
need to check it out.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
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(18:41):
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a qualifying plan from pure Talk. All right, welcome back
to clay an Buck. We are joined now by Mike Gallagher.
(19:03):
He is head of defense at Palentier. He's got a
really interesting piece in the Wall Street Journal, Time for
accountability on the COVID lab leak cover up. Mike, appreciate
you making the time for us.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
What's an honor to be with you.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Let's just jump into it. You got into this in
your piece. What does accountability look like? What does the
public need to know? What steps have to be taken
now when it comes to the lab leak cover up.
I see. I love that there's a picture of Fauci
touching a little fake virus in your op ed. He's
the absolute worst. What needs to happen.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
Well, I can't claim credit for the artwork that comes
with these op eds. I just do the words. But
it was it was quite nice to me.
Speaker 7 (19:46):
It just starts with the basic step of complete declassification.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
Of relevant intelligence.
Speaker 7 (19:52):
If you remember, we actually passed the law when I
was in Congress requiring that the Biden administration do just that,
but they they didn't comply with the law. When they
finally did an investigation into the origins of COVID, it
was not serious. What came out was heavily redacted. It
was a regurgitation of the prevailing consensus. And so there's
(20:12):
been no accountability for our own scientific establishment, which was
profoundly corrupted. Our own intelligence community was parroting the corrupted
consensus of the scientists, and even the authors of the
proximal origins article, which spread a lot of this misinformation,
have not been held accountable. If the opposite has happened,
(20:33):
they continue to get awards. Fauci continues to be lauded,
and we have centers named after Fauci, and without that
basic step of accountability, people just aren't going to trust
the government. They're not going to trust the health institutions,
the scientific institutions, and therefore we're less prepared to prevent
that future pandemic. So I think accountability starts with getting
the information out there, even if it's super embarrassing too.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
The government agencies that allowed tax dollars.
Speaker 7 (21:00):
To be fundled, funneled to corrupt nonprofits like the Eco
Health Alliance and wind their way into the hands of
the Muhan Institute of Virology, there's been no accountability thus far.
Speaker 4 (21:13):
That's why I read your piece and I appreciate you
coming on with us. I know how busy you are
in your new job, and we'll talk about that maybe
in a moment. But trump for people who do not know,
I encourage you to go to COVID dot gov today
and look at everything that's being laid out there. We're
five years after COVID and Buck and I focus on
(21:34):
this a lot because we're kind of history nerds, and
one of the good things about time passing is over time,
history I like to think becomes more honest about what
really transpired. Are you optimistic that twenty forty years from
now will get a more honest version of what happened
and the failures of this nation when it comes to
(21:57):
responding to COVID in generations ahead. Or do you think
the same people that are trying to stop us now
will continue to fight for generations into the future to
avoid acknowledging how wrong they were.
Speaker 7 (22:10):
Well, I would only say I don't think we have twenty,
let alone forty years right. We had a report a
few months ago that in February, researchers that the will
have intevivirology had experimented with a new bat coronavirus that
looked a lot similar to COVID nineteen. What you learn
is you sort of dig into the nature of what
happened in Muhan, but lab accidents more broadly is that
(22:32):
these are actually more common than we realize, and so
part of the push for accountability is based on the
idea that the risks of a pandemic like the one
we went through with COVID nineteen, or with one that
could be far worse if a future virus were just
as pathenogenic or more lethal. Rather, those risks have not
(22:54):
gone down. We haven't learned any lessons, and so we
need accountability on a year timeline, not a twenty year
time which is why I was very glad to see
that President Trump launched his website. I would encourage all
Americans to go to the website right now and really
lays out five basic common sense truths that the government
heretofore is not acknowledged. One, the virus possessed biological characteristics
(23:18):
that you couldn't find in nature. To all the data
suggests it's stemmed from a single introduction into humans.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
Not multiple spillovers like previous pandemics.
Speaker 7 (23:27):
Three, That the Wuhan Institute had conducted gain to function
of research at inadequate safety levels, or that the researchers
at the Wuhan it's too fell ill with COVID months
before the virus was allegedly discovered at a web market.
And finally, after all these years, there's no scientific evidence
of a natural origin that has surfaced. That alone has
done more to advance the case of accountability than under
(23:50):
four years of President Joe Biden.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
So we need to press the gas.
Speaker 7 (23:53):
We need to hold our own agencies accountable, and again
we need to declassify all the relevant information.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
Mike, I want to do it a little bit here
and lean into another area of expertise something you're dealing
with day in and day out now as head of
Defense at Palenteer Technologies. I think one of the lessons
that anybody paying attention to what's going on over in
Ukraine with Russia, uh and and especially if they're looking
looking ahead at the possibility at some point in the
(24:19):
future of some kind of hot conflict with China, is
technology is going to be absolutely critical. We're looking at drones,
We're looking at a future of telecommunications and high speed
computing making decisions on the battlefield. That is truly the
stuff of sci fi from not long ago, and it's
it's becoming reality now every day. But with that said,
(24:40):
I know Palenteers involved in the high tech edge of
things with defense. It wasn't long ago where Google was
upset there. There was like an uprising at Google over
the prospect of doing anything that helped the United States
Pentagon right, like as if Silicon Valley was its own
(25:00):
little fiefdom that did not actually become or was not
actually a part of the United States. Do you feel
like that is changing now? Do you feel like there's
an understanding that companies that are US based, that employ
Americans have a role in defense, and that means that
they should take a patriotic position on Yeah, we will
work with the United States Pentagon.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
I think it is changing.
Speaker 7 (25:23):
I mean Google has actually recently changed its position. And
if you remember at the time the reasons so many
of us got upset when Google abandoned Project maven Is,
they were simultaneously trying to work with China an AI
exactly an AI center in Beijing. It was substantly revealed
there was a project that they did abandon, but a
project they were exploring to center internet search in China.
(25:44):
So the message was, well, We're cool working with a
genocile communist regime, but not with the American military, because
the American military occasionally has to do things like kill
Salafe jihadis in order to keep America safe. And so
into the brief step Talenteer, which was unapologetic in its
belief that America is the greatest country in the history
(26:05):
of the world, that we should have the most lethal
military in the world, and that some folks, be they
terrorists or other bad guys, need to be killed occasionally
and I do think what we're seeing on the battlefield
in Ukraine is forcing people to re examine their previously
held assumptions.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
There's a lot of capital in the venture capital.
Speaker 7 (26:24):
Community that is trying to flow into defense technology companies.
And finally, I would say not to talk to my
own book, but when you have a company like Talent
that spent two decades trying to survive the so called
Valley of Death because it isn't easy for a defense
technology company to succeed because the Pentagon can be a
difficult customer, it proves to other companies that are trying
(26:44):
to do the same that it's possible to survive. It's
possible to go public, it's possible to have a mission
focused company, and that also is successful financially, which is
why we founded something called the First Breakfast Initiative, which
is designed to make it easier for non traditional defense
technology companies to survive and thrive because we need more, right,
(27:04):
we can't just have five primes that control everything. We
need the primes to survive. They're always going to be there,
but we need a more diverse ecosystem of defense technology companies.
If we are going to have a hope of deterring
China from invading Taiwan, as well as simultaneously going after
terrorist in the Middle East and the other threat actors.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
We have to deal with.
Speaker 4 (27:23):
What you just said I think is important and also
to me connects with your editorial in the Wall Street Journal,
which is about the importance of truth and the commitment
to fact. When you see so much of what's going
on in America today and around the world, whether it's
celebrating the United Healthcare CEOs killer, whether it is down
in Frisco, Texas, Carmelo Anthony stabs a seventeen year old
(27:48):
in the heart and raises four hundred thousand dollars. As
you just mentioned, so many of these elite institutions out
there had people marching in favor of the perpetrators of
October seven. Why are we having such a difference. This
is a big philosophical question, But why do you think
we're having such a challenge, especially going into the Holy
(28:09):
week of good and evil recognizing them and being willing
to stand on the side of good.
Speaker 7 (28:16):
Well, I do think, you know, to really take it,
make it biblical and maybe betray my Catholic perspective. I
do think as religion has retreated in terms of its
role in American life, people have sought out other gods,
and in some ways, politics or you know, a political
tribe can become a cult and so kind of.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
A god shaped whole in people's hearts.
Speaker 7 (28:42):
And I think correspondingly, there's also this epistemological crisis that
we have in America where people no longer trust any
sources of information, right, Like, we have this very balkanized
media landscape where nobody really knows where to go to
get truth. And the risk of that is people can
kind of opt in to whatever reality they just want
to live in, and it's very hard to have a
(29:03):
coherent conversation based on facts, based on logic. As a
result that being said, you know, as a product of
representing Northeast Wisconsin, where we're gonna host the NFL drafts
here shortly by the way, everybody.
Speaker 4 (29:15):
I will be watching, I'm very excited.
Speaker 7 (29:20):
It's a huge, huge thing for Green Bay, Wisconsin, a
huge thing. You know, I think most people are just
common sense, right there was this revolution of common sense
that President Trump talked about. I mean people were afraid
initially to speak their minds, you know, particularly in COVID.
But people started to see what was happening to our
kids with schools being shut down, was happened happened to
(29:42):
our loved ones who were being locked up, and they thought,
this doesn't make any sense. I do have this abiding
faith in the common sense of the American people. Right now,
they're demanding change and reform in the basic institutions of government.
I think Trump is an instrument for that that change.
It can be very disruptive at times, and that's what
the American people want, and so.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
We have to get back to that.
Speaker 7 (30:02):
And at the end of the day, like we have
to realize, of course America's not perfect, but we're the
good guys, right we are the greatest country in human history.
That comes with a great responsibility. But the rest of
the world is looking to us for leadership, to lead
with courage. If you remember when China took over Hong
Kong and hundreds of thousands of people came out into
the streets to protest, what were they waving. They were
(30:23):
waving American flags, right. They were looking to us as
an example for a free society, and that's something we
all have a duty to maintain.
Speaker 4 (30:31):
Well said, have a good Holy Week and weekend, and
we'll talk to you again, hopefully soon. Encourage people to
go check out that editorial in the Wall Street Journal.
Thanks guys, it's Mike Gallagher, now inside of Defense Universe,
but previously Green Bay, Wisconsin congressman. And yes, the NFL
draft coming up soon, and he just talked about good
(30:52):
and evil Holy Week. This should be a joyous time
throughout Israel between the Passover and Easter holidays. Not the
case this year because there is a constant reminder missile
attacks can occur at any given moment. That's why we're
happy and proud and honored to partner with the International
Fellowship of Christians and Jews to help provide life saving
(31:13):
aid and security essentials to so many people in the
Holy Land. Your urgently needed gift today will go towards
things like bomb shelters, black jackets, bulletproof vest. You'll also
help first responders with armored security vehicles, ambulances more. I
saw up close the difference your gifts make. Join us
in standing with Israel. Call to make your gift at
(31:35):
eight eight eight four eight eight IFCJ that's eight eight
eight four eight eight four three two five You can
also go online at SUPPORTIFCJ dot org to give that
website support IFCJ dot org.
Speaker 5 (31:51):
Stories are freedom stories of America, inspirational stories that you
unite us.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
All each day.
Speaker 6 (31:58):
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Speaker 1 (32:05):
Welcome back into Clay and Buck.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
I just went down and got some Crocket coffee. I
have it here in my hand. It is delicious. Ten
percent of our profits goes a tunnel the tower, so
you're doing a good thing for all of us. When
you support Crocket Coffee, you also get yourself a sign
coffee of Clay's American Playbook. Go use code book when
you go to Crocketcoffee dot com. The Mushroom Blend coffee
(32:28):
is now out. You guys should all check that out.
If you ever had mushroom coffee before. A little less caffeine,
a little earthier, a lot of minerals and cool stuff
in it. It's delicious. Kerrie loves it, So go check
out Mushroom Coffee totally. We'd have a new product we're
very excited about. Go to Crocket Coffee dot complete subscribe
or if you want to try it one off. That's
fine too, and use code book if you want to
sign Coffye of Clay's American Playbook. Clay, the CIA has
(32:51):
cleared my book, so it will happen at some point.
It took a long time, so it will happen everyone.
I know, I've been talking about it forever, but I
had to get it all anyway. So we will get
into that and more. Oh a third hour, We're going
to talk height and dating and a little bit of
a throwback to a fun anniversary that I think some
(33:11):
of you will recall. We'll get into all of that.
But first up, Bill in Bend or again wants away
And what's up Bill?
Speaker 3 (33:19):
Oh?
Speaker 8 (33:20):
Hi, Hi? Yeah, Bill and Bend and the Texas murder
that took place, and the you know, kind of sudden
purchase of a home and new vehicle by the family
you know, and Clay. This is kind of up your
alley because they has to do with law. But in
Texas there's a bankruptcy exemption for the entire value of
(33:43):
a home and the entire value of an auto. So
when the parents of the murdered victim go to have
a wrongful death civil suit and probably will be awarded
a big judgment in that of the the murdered.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
The great point the murder will have.
Speaker 8 (34:01):
A nice home and a nice car that can't be touched.
So I think my thought is that they had some
you know, legal advice right up front to start using
some of that money in the charitable account to start
making those of purchases that cannot ever be attached by
a creditor. And I'm just wondering why those funds aren't
(34:26):
trying to be attached right now.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
That's a that's a great, great, great, a stude point.
Thank you so much. I would you know, Clay, in Florida,
there's a there's a homestead homestead Act, right, and so
they can't if it is your primary residence in a
civil judgment, I believe unless there's some specific criminal activity
involving the home, they cannot take your home.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
Correct.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
If you met a one million dollar home in Florida
and you lose a judgment and you declare bankruptcy, they
cannot take your home.
Speaker 4 (34:52):
I remember that becoming an issue with the inrun collapse.
Some of those guys had tens of millions of dollars
in home homes and they are protected and By the way,
we just had Ken Paxton, who is the Attorney General
of Texas. I think there should be laws. This would
be my take that if you are raising funds for
(35:13):
legal defense, that none of that money can be used
for anything other than legal defense, because otherwise you're allowing
people to take money and profit offense. And his call,
it's a fabulous call, because if you go buy a
million dollar home, there will be at some point a
wrongful death lawsuit. That million dollar home would be protected
(35:35):
from being able to be seized, such that that home
could theoretically be purchased and then not able to be
in any way ever taken. And it's being basically profiting
off of an awful act. So I think in the
state of Texas, Ken Paxton, who was just on with
us earlier this week, the attorney general, I would even
(35:55):
suggest if you're raising funds marketed directly for legal defense,
that it would be in some way a misallocation and
misappropriation of funds if that money is used for anything
other than legal defense.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Let's get Steven Pennsylvania. Steve, we got about forty seconds.
Wanted to get you in. Go ahead.
Speaker 9 (36:15):
Yeah, just hopefully a good Easter message for everyone. It's
my mom. Was in the hospital. She was dying and
we were all around her and she was non responsive,
and then the priest came in to give her last
write and when he took her hand and said hello, Betty,
(36:38):
she woke up for the first time in a week
and said hello father, and he graved dal I'll marry
with her, and then she died.
Speaker 4 (36:50):
I appreciate that story. I think it's resonating with many people.
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