March 20, 2024 • 50 mins
In the third hour, Dave Softy Mahler and Dick Fain continue to discuss the news of Troy Dannen leaving for Washington for Nebraska including a visit from Jon Wilner, then chat with Lance Zierlein from the NFL Network about the NFL Draft coming up next month.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Look, I was with the bigstory of the day. If you're just
joining us right now, Troy Danand taking off for Nebraska to be the
new ad at Washington, I knowa lot of people are mad about it.
A lot of people are pissed offabout this guy using Dub as a
stepping stone and going to Nebraska.I gotta be honest with you. I'll
just repeat some of the thoughts Igave you in the first hour of the
show, and Dick you can followit up. I just don't think he
(00:21):
was ever fully comfortable here. Inever think he was the right fit here
at Washington, and I just thinkin the end, I'm not surprised this
happened. I'm bummed out that youDub wasted their time with a guy for
five and a half months, ButI'm not bummed out to lose this guy
as the ad. No, I'mnot either. And I would not call
this a stepping stone situation because ofthe family part of it, because you
(00:43):
know his family, his wife's familyare all in Iowa. Obviously we've heard
that she didn't want him to takethis job in the first place, and
Nebraska is in no way a stepup for the University of Washington. Now,
I wouldn't be able to stay thatwith a straight face if the Huskies
were still in the past twelve theNebraska's in the Big Ten. But now
that they're in the same conference,and Washington has had far more success athletically
(01:06):
than Nebraska in most sports and includingthe biggest sport football that I mean,
Nebraska has been buried for it howlong, ten to fifteen years in football
it's been. It's been one ofthe laughing stocks of football for the last
decade. Yeah, I mean,I think I think they might be on
the way back, But I totallyagree with you that it's not a situation
where he's leaving for a better program. I think he's leaving for a better
(01:30):
life, at least what his familyfinds to be important. Did you see
there's an article that just came outin the last fifteen minutes or so that
Troy Dannen's home is twice he isselling it for twice as much as the
most expensive house in Lincoln, Nebraskathat's on the market right now. Okay,
so yeah, I mean, thinkabout think about the power that that
(01:55):
contract he has in Lincoln, Nebraska. As far as purchasing a home.
He can sell his house in Redmondand it would be twice as much as
And it's not like he's got thegreatest house in Redmen, right, he
just has a nice house in Redman, and it's twice as much as any
house in Lincoln, Nebraska that's onthe market right now. Yeah. I
heard it was a four and ahalf million dollar house in Redmand that he
(02:15):
bought here in Seattle, is whatI was told. So obviously it's gonna
be a different animal for him,But I think for Washington. Look,
I just don't know, and Iknow I asked Petros this and I asked
you this question. Do you goout and hire somebody that you think is
gonna want to be here for along time? And if the answer is
yes, then you're limiting your poolof people that you can choose from you
really are. I mean there's gonnabe guys out there that have backgrounds in
(02:38):
the PNW. There's also gonna beup and coming stars in the ad business
that may have no tide to thisplace whatsoever. So what do you want?
Yeah? I don't think. Idon't think Northwest ties are something I
want to limit myself I think theyare something that would enhance somebody's credentials if
they were already if they were alreadysolid credentials enough to be the University of
(03:00):
Washington athletic department or athletic director.Rather, I just want somebody that respects
this place. I want somebody thatknows a little bit about this place.
You could tell Troy Dana knew zeroabout Seattle and zero about the University of
Washington when he got here, rightof course, and you know, I
mean the day that he got hired, they had the press conference that you'd
at the crew House, and hetalked about how they need was at seven
(03:21):
home games minimum, whatever it was. In the Apple Cup conversation at of
Mark Holsey had to jump in andsay, hey, by the way,
we're having conversations about the Apple Cupright now. Like those guys, the
two of them weren't even on thesame page. You were there sitting right
next to me. They weren't evenon the same page in regards to what
the plan was for the Apple Cupon the day he was hired, and
I have heard that he did notwant to really prepare for that press conference.
(03:45):
He wanted to kind of he's like, Hey, I'm a Q and
a guy. I can handle this, right, And it tripped him up.
That part tripped him up right there, and he didn't. He did
not look good in that press conference, at least at that moment. The
Pat Chun situation is interesting because it'sit's not funny, but it's almost predictable.
How when somebody starts to leave allof a sudden, you start to
(04:09):
look at the negatives and maybe whyyou can justify a guy taking off.
And we're doing that with Troy Danenright now. I mean there were positives
to Troy. I think they werealso negatives to Troy, and I pointed
out some of those earlier on theshow experiences that we've had. But the
Cougar fans right now will tell youthat Pat Chun doesn't have the greatest relationship
with some of his coaches right nowin Pullman, and I wonder how much
(04:30):
of that is, Hey, there'sonly a certain amount of money I can
pay you. Right. It's differentat you, dub right because I add
think Pat Chun though, are theymet at the situation and pat Chun has
to happens to be the bad guy. I guess he has to tell him
that he can't pay him more.Possibly, or maybe they think that he
could find it and he just doesn'twant to do it for them. I
have no idea, but I thinkmost people in this business, players included,
(04:53):
will associate respect with how much moneythey're being paid. Okay, I
want respect, and that means Iwant my big page. So I can
see how some coaches on campus atWashington State might be a little bit down
on Pat Chun because there's only somuch of a pie he's got to work
with. I mean, it obviouslywould not be unlimited in Seattle, but
it would be more than what he'sgot to work with in Washington State.
(05:14):
So all the interactions I've had withPat Schun have been great. He's open
and honest about stuff. He seemsto be the kind of guy that donors
would like to hang with and contributeto. He's a smart guy. He's
been around the country. So whathe's done, honestly, what he's done
for Washington State, given the circumstancesfor them the last few years, including
the football team, I think it'sbeen pretty impressive. Well, you had
(05:38):
the Mike Leachs run in football,you had I mean Jake Dickard has done
a solid job since he's been thehead coach. He obviously hired the right
guy in basketball who was able totake a team that was predicted to be
tenth in the Pac twelve this yearand turn him into a second place team
and an NCAA tournament team and areasonably high seed one. So yeah,
I mean, I don't think there'sany blemishes on the resume, at least
(06:00):
as far as his hiring goes.Yeah, no, no question. And
I just think again, you're comingto Washington where you're going to have more
tools in your toolbox than you willin a place like Washington State. The
Jeremiah Donatti situation, to me isinteresting. He went to UPS meeting the
University of Puget Sound and now he'sat TCU. He's the ad at TCU,
He's in his mid forties, he'sgot experience. Does he want to
(06:20):
come back home and be a partof this thing? And that strikes me
as the kind of guy that mightwant to come back here and be here
for a while. But I alsowonder, you know, again, what
is wrong with why did Jen Cohenleave and why did Troy Dana not want
to be here, and maybe they'retwo completely different situations, right, and
maybe they're both justified. Jen washere for twenty five years, saw a
(06:42):
chance to go be the ad atone of the biggest sports factories in America
USC with a full share of bigtime money, and took off, okay,
and then this guy Dan and justhad a weird hiccup with his family,
didn't work out, had to leave. So do we associate anything consistent
with Detroit dand both leaving back toback And you can add Kitlyn Devor to
(07:03):
that, and I would say no. And that's why I would disagree with
that that the audio that we playedfrom Isaiah standback in fun with audio.
I don't think there is a systemicproblem at the University of Washington. I
think I think they are all separatecircumstances. I mean, would anybody three
months ago have said that the Universityof Washington is in a bad place right
(07:27):
now? Okay? Then then threemonths later it doesn't automatically just happen to
be in a bad place because twoguys take off the bones. The structure
of the University of Washington are absolutelyfine. They go into the big big
ten strong. Sure they might struggleright off the bat in football, because
they're going in with a half aroster right now, and you know,
we'll see who they hire in basketball. But I'm with you. I think
(07:50):
basketball can turn around very very quickly, just in this day and age of
nil in the transfer portal, youcan turn teams from worse to first very
very quickly, even in one season. All right, I want to have
a little extra time with John Dick, So let's break right here and we'll
come back with John Wilner next onninety three to three KJRFM, It's time
for our weekly Pac twelve conversation withSen Jose Mercury News reporter John Wilner,
(08:13):
brought to you by Simply Seattle.Our friends at simply Seattle dot com have
the most amazing collection of all thingsSeattle Seahawks gear UW had some of the
largest selection of Sonnex gear anywhere inthe world. Learn more at simply Seattle
dot com. All right, LordJamie and company guys at Simply Seattle,
it's gonna cost him bonus segment withJohn Wilner. Why couldn't this have happened
(08:37):
yesterday when John was on the airwith us for his weekly Tuesday segment.
For God's sakes, here he isfresh office kids baseball game. We appreciate
that. Johnny Wilner from the SanJose Mercury News and John Troy Dannon no
longer the Ada Washington, how surprisedwere you buy that news today? Fairly
(08:58):
surprised. Gotta admit, uh,just pretty much out of nowhere right.
And the thing is Nebraska. TrevAlberts accepted the Texas A and M job.
I think it was last It waseither last Tuesday or Wednesday, So
Nebraska. You know, that wasnot a month's long search that ended up
(09:18):
with Troy Dannon. It had beenjust a few days. So look,
it's easy to connect the dots here. Washington used Parker Executive Search to when
they were looking for an ad tohire and hire Danen. Yep, Nebraska
used Parker Executive Search right now tohire a new AD. Obviously Dannen knows
(09:43):
the folks there pretty well and clearlymade it apparent to them clear to them.
You know what, I'm not realhappy. If there's another option,
I would be willing to listen.And that's how it happened so quick.
Well, shouldn't Parker Executive Search takea little bit of the blame in this
and putting Troy dan And in aposition that he didn't want to have five
months later, they must have knownin the family situation. Well, what
(10:07):
Parker Executive Search and most firms dois they will, you know, they
will talk to the university president.They will get a sense for what what
are the type of people you're lookingfor, what is the background you're looking
for, and then they will presentthe president with a few candidates. Ultimately,
they're not saying pick Troy Dannon.I don't know the extent at Anna
(10:28):
Marie Calsay asked for their advice fora particular candidate versus just wanted them to
give her a short list. She'sultimately responsible for this. Did Parker do
the best job making sure that Dannin'spersonal situation was going to be okay?
Maybe not, But it ultimately fallson Calsay And the other piece I'd add
is I spoke to somebody this afternoonwho knows dan And well and talks to
(10:52):
Dannon regularly, and that person toldme that as soon as Troy got to
Seattle, he was like, ohboy, this is different. And you
know what, for a guy who'sgrowing up in the Midwest and then with
an ad in the South. You'redarn right it's going to be different when
you cross the Rockies. Somewhere therewas a breakdown in the vetting process about
the fit personally and culturally. No, it's balls on man nails right there,
(11:16):
because once the minute he got here, he was like a fish out
of water. I think a lotof people here, including me, by
the way, we're a little shockedby that. We were kind of shocked
by how standoffish he was. Hekind of had a bit of a syndrome,
if you will, really did notseem to be willing and able and
even desiring to get along with peopleand get to know people here on a
(11:37):
very personal level. From a mediaperspective, he was not like what anybody
here has been used to, evengoing back to Scott Woodward, Jen Cohen,
Todd Turner, and Barbara Hedges.So I think you're right that there
was a bit of a culture shockfor him. How much of that do
you think is why he left andhow much do you think this was just
personal with him and his family notwanting to be here. I think it
(12:00):
was both. I think those twothings are intertwined as well. I mean
he spent I was told he spentmost of December in New Orleans. Right
now, you can understand from afamily standpoint, it's the holidays, but
the entire month, that's a crucialmonth. Washington's getting ready for the playoffs.
It's an important month for meet withdonors, right and he's not there.
(12:20):
And I think that contributed to thefact that he felt a disconnect and
that the folks at Washington didn't feela connection with him, and that you
wrap it all to you put itall in a cauldron, and the end
result is it just didn't work andthe ball was dropped in the process.
And let's see first two things.One how much did Washington pay Parker Executive
(12:43):
Search for the process that led toDannon? And Two is Ano Marie Kause
going to use Parker Executive Search againfor the next hire? How do you
compare the jobs Nebraska versus Washington.Let's put all the family stuff behind and
just Nebraska's athletic department versus Washington's athleticdepartment. So if you're taking out the
fact that he's a Midwestern guy andyou're just a school versus school yes,
(13:07):
what's he getting versus what's he's turningdown? Well, here's well, here's
one of the big things he's getting. That's a full share of Big ten
revenue for six years and that Idon't know if that played a role,
but you know, Washington is goingto be thirty million behind and Big ten
media revenue for six years one hundredand eighty million behind. Maybe maybe he
(13:31):
thought, you know what, that'sthat's gonna make it hard for us to
compete. Nebraska is a full fullshare member. But you know, he
knew that when he took the job. I think Washington is a great place.
He knew that when he took thejob. Did he wake up He
did? Indeed, did he oneday and go oh, I forgot about
that part of it? No,not necessarily. But if you if you
(13:54):
layer onto that any kind of promisesof commitment to athletics that may have been
made, and that he didn't feellike we're going to be come to fruition,
then maybe you know a lot ofthis I get back to it,
it's on the president, right.The success of any athletic department ultimately starts
with the president. Right. It'sa triangle the president at the top is
(14:16):
the eighty and it's the football coach. If you've got those three spots in
alignment, all working together for thesame goals, you got a much better
chance to succeed. If your presidentis not all in with football, and
if she talks talks to talk,doesn't walk the walk, then you got
problems. Yeah. I do knowthis, guys, that one of Troy's
(14:37):
biggest priorities, if not his biggestpriority, was convincing Upper Campus to give
him more help financially. I doknow that that was something he was focused
in on, and it's certainly possiblethat he got a little frustrated and maybe
even disenfranchised with that process and justsaid, I can't do what I want
to do here. I'm going toa place where maybe I can do what
(14:58):
I want to do. So nowthe question is what does U DUB do.
Do they turn to somebody who theymaybe have a little more faith in,
would stick around for a while.Do you still look for the best
candidate available? How much will thisexperience kind of influence you think what anamarracoalse
does next. I don't she shouldlearn from it if it's up to me,
(15:20):
If she's paying me, say,thirty seven fifty thirty seven dollars,
not thirty seven grand. She's payingme thirty seven dollars to offer her advice.
It would be to hire someone whoeither has worked at U dub or
understands the Pacific Northwest, where atthe very least is familiar with the West
(15:41):
coast culture has worked out here.I think there's some very good candidates that
have worked in the Pac twelve.It's just different. You cross the Rockies
and it's different, especially if yourbackground is entirely in the eastern half of
the country. I mean Deboor,he did have what a couple of years
at Fresno, But you know,Deboor was also a little bit of an
fit to me too. And we'veseen that over and over with Pac twelve
(16:03):
schools, with eighties football coaches andmen's basketball coaches. You hire somebody who
doesn't have roots out here, andthey take the first chance they can to
get home. Oregon football has learnedthat lesson the hard way. Well,
there's one three hundred miles east patChun Washington State University. If we called
him, if Anna Maury Casse calledhim tomorrow and so will you come,
what do you think he says,and do you think that would be the
(16:25):
right fit here? Well, Idon't know what Pat would say and the
fit piece. What I can't answeron that is how the U of Athletic
Department would would feel about hiring Cougarright now. The last nine months haven't
been great for obvious reasons. I'mnot aware of a situation where Pat has
(16:48):
been publicly critical of Jen Cohen orthe way Washingt runs it Athletic department.
Yeah, but I don't know howthat would go over. If you're just
talking about is he qualified, theanswer is one hundred percent. He's a
phenomenal ad. He checks every singlebox, fundraising track record for hiring,
understanding the NCAA landscape, understanding thebig ten. I mean he went to
(17:11):
a house state and worked at OHIOSK. He knows the big ten. He
knows he is a strategic thinker,He can raise money. I mean,
the guy is incredibly qualified. Ijust don't know about the rivalry piece,
and I don't know if he wouldgo Yeah. Well, I can tell
you this that Jen Cohen and PatJohn have a fantastic relationship. Fantastic relationship,
(17:33):
so yes they do. They havespent Thanksgivings together their family have I
know they did now. I don'tknow how much they have talked since August
fourth, because I know that youknow, it's impossible to avoid hurt feelings.
But there's no question if if Anmarecalled Chien and said, what do
you think of Pat Chuhn, Ihave to believe the recommendation would be stellar.
No, no, no question,John. I do wonder because Nebraska
(17:57):
just moved very fast going from Albert'sDetroit Dannen, should we expect that Annamarkause
could do the same thing Because sheliterally six months ago just had a list
right of athletic directors that she wantedto talk to about the job. That
that list is still very fresh,it's only five and a half months old.
(18:18):
So given that she just went throughthis process, is a fair to
expect that this time around won't takenearly as long? No, I would
think that's true. But what didit take six weeks eight weeks to get
dan and hired once Jen left?I want to Darnen was hired in October
of last year, and Jen Cohenwas hired at USC in Cowch over the
(18:42):
summer mid to late August. Ithink boy it was August, correct,
August, Yeah, it was twomonths based too much? Two months?
It could be it could be acouple of weeks. What I don't you
guys may have a better idea aboutthis. I've been in a little league
game. Are they going to hirea basketball coach first? Or they gonna
hire an AD and then have Hillhire the basketball Well, I think,
(19:02):
I mean there are ways down theroad and Aaron O'Connell, the interim now
AD has been involved in the hiringprocess. So don't you think it makes
sense to just pass the baton andlet them continue that process play out,
kind of like I mean, JenCohen was very involved in the hiring process
of Chris Peterson even though she wasn'tthe a D at the time. Yeah,
(19:26):
no, it does make sense.The question is, are you gonna
are the people who would take thejob gonna you know, if if Gannon
had still been there, are theygonna be willing to take the job when
they don't know who their boss isgonna be? Because the basketball coach's boss
is the a D. And you'reyou know, you have no idea what
they're gonna do. Maybe Washington canmake some promises on that front, like
(19:47):
it's gonna be either X, Yor Z. But I do wonder if
the Kims pool will be affected bythe fact that there is no AD.
Yeah, I think. I thinkfor certain people it might, no doubt.
Uh. I think if it's aDanny Sprinkle type situation, it may
not matter. If it's a WillWade or an Eric Musselman type situation,
it may matter. But for otherguys that you know desperately, not desperately,
(20:10):
but really have a desire for thisjob. Danny Sprinkle's dad played football
that you dub by the way,so if this has been a job that
he's been targeting for a while,it may not matter who the new AD
is. But I just guess theother oning is I'm sorry to interrupts,
but the other thing that we needto keep in mind is it is both
jobs men's basketball and AD. Theyare big ten jobs, and there's a
(20:30):
lot of appeal even with the revenuediscount that they're getting. We see it
every day, right and the CFPsituation is more evidence the big ten in
the SEC are the places to beand there are coaches and ads that would
take the job a big ten job, even if they don't do their bosses.
Well, we talked about the Chunsituation. He certainly got good news
(20:52):
today. I don't know if thatchanges his you know, his approach to
the future and what he does.But what did wazoo in os you expect
in the first place to get fromthat CFP contract And why did it balloon
from three hundred k to three millionpoint six million or whatever. Well,
because what they expected was about threethree point six million. Right they they
(21:15):
were at the CFP had said everybody'sgoing to get an increase, and everybody
did get an increase except Washington Stateand Oregon State got ninety percent decreases.
Now, I don't know exactly whathas happened in those discussions since Friday,
but I would hazard to guess thatthere was the threat of a lawsuit,
some kind of anti trust, somekind of collusion lawsuits that Washington State and
(21:37):
Horkin State made known to the CFP. You got every other school one hundred
and thirty schools are getting increases andthe two of us are getting huge haircuts.
And the thing is they were beingtreated as independents when they're not independents.
They're in a conference. There's goingto be a conference. They're going
(21:59):
to be in conference in twenty twentysix. So my guess is that there
was some legal action threatened, andgood they've got Now they've got the money
they expected and it's going to helpthem, right all right. I want
to go back to the up thingfor a second, because we got to
talk about these candidates. Man John. By the way, I just heard
back from somebody who said the typicalParker search firm is either low six figures
(22:22):
or a percentage of the first yearsalary of the person that was hired.
So we're talking, you know,around one hundred grand is what they paid
for them to find a guy thatwas there for five months. But I
just got a text from a formerHusky, big time legend. I want
to tell you who it is,who says I hope Chris Pesman from Houston
is strongly considered. And his namewas on the list as well the first
(22:45):
time around. I know ed Scottfrom Virginia. Jeremiah Donatti, who went
to college here in the area,is the ad at TCU. Stephanie Rempi's
name and Nevada had been brought upagain. Chrissy Rawalk from Delaware is there
a hot can it out there thatanamar Ak Cassay should be keeping an eye
on? You think, well,if we're taking if we're excluding Chun from
(23:07):
this discussion right here. I mean, I published a column today and Chris
Peesman is on my list. Ithink the guy is very sharp. He
was a finalist in the fall.He played football Houston. He's the ad
at Houston. Would he leave,I don't know, but again, it's
a big ten job, and hewas the deputy a d at CAL for
(23:32):
a number of years. He understandsthe West Coast. He understands the academic
athletic yin Yang that Washington has.I think that the Huskies would, in
my opinion, they'd be dumb tonot give Pezman serious serious consideration. I
also would say Terry Toomey was onmy list in the fall. He's the
(23:55):
ade at Presido of State who hiredKaylin de Boor in twenty twenty. He
made a lot of sense in thefall. Debor was there. I think
he still makes sense. The guy'sgot a master's degree from UCLA. He
was an All Pack ten defensive linemanat UCLA. He's worked in the NFL.
He had enough sense to hire Deboor. He should be strongly considered as
well. John. If you're aschool president and I gave you the choice,
(24:17):
you had to pick one of thesetwo candidates. One is an AD
that's beloved by everybody, beloved bythe coaches, his staff, runs a
clean ship, but maybe is alittle you know, stuck in two thousands
college athletics instead of going forward twentytwenties twenty thirties college athletics. Or a
(24:37):
guy that appears to be more likeDannin, who maybe isn't beloved by the
people he works with, but isdefinitely a forward thinker and understands what it
takes to run an athletic department inthe twenty thirties. I mean, I
would probably take the latter. Ithink the most important thing is setting your
(24:59):
athletic department up for success in acollege athletic industry that is gonna change.
Not only has it changed an immenseamount in the last two or three years
with nil and the portal and allthat, it's gonna change that much more
in the next two or three years. So to me, you gotta have
a strategic thinker. I don't thinkyour AD has to be beloved I mean,
if the ad is despised and theculture in the department is rotten,
(25:22):
now you're losing good people. Yeah, that's not good. But I don't
think you have to be beloved.I think you have to just be a
strategic thinker who understands what works atthe school and also is very into nil
and football against football has got tobe the priority. Yeah, totally agreeing.
(25:45):
All right, man, crazy crazyday in a crazy couple of months
for you. Dub Dick and Iwere talking twenty twenty one. It was
Jen Cone and Jimmy Lake, thenit was Jen and Kaylen, then it
was Troy and Kaalen, and nowit's god knows who and Jed fish Man.
So is the is the turnstile ofto slow down? Tell me it's
slowing down at you? Doub uhNo, I won't well. And here's
(26:07):
why I don't want. I don'twant to. I don't want to create
all kinds of issues with your listeners. But I mean, Florida Football.
There's a hot seat at Florida Footballnext season. And if anybody has looked
at the last eight weeks of Floridaschedule, you can there's no way you
can sketch out a winning season forthe Gators and Jedfish is a Florida alum.
(26:29):
Wow, that's what my last questionwas going to be. Do you
think this this goes a long wayinto changing Jedfish's mind on staying past the
three years that we thought he wasgonna stay. Well, we'll see who
I mean, that's another piece,right, you never know if he's not
gonna like the ad, will thatprompt him to be more interested in taking
the Florida job if it opens nextnext ball. I mean, I didn't
(26:51):
think Dann did the greatest job inthe world with either the Deboor dealings or
the Fish contract. Right. Thebuy out on the Fish contract is not
very high. And uh, youknow the given that guy's track record for
jumping from job to job and thefact that his his alma mater might be
open and it's in the sec right, I'm not gonna say. I'm not
(27:11):
saying it's gonna slow down. Andon Mott Lake not yet. Well,
and that brings up a good pointAnd we got a break here. But
we keep thinking of good stuff toask you. You keep giving us nuggets.
We got to follow up on thebuyout for Dan and the buyout for
Fish are minuscule. I mean,the buyout for Dan in his first year
in Nebraska is twelve million dollars Johnsix times more than was here, right,
(27:32):
I mean, is it time tomaybe ask Anna Mara to start getting
a little more greedy with these buyoutnumbers? It is uh, the success
or failure of any organization starts atthe top, and she is the top,
and that there's just no other wayaround it. She's in charge.
This is on her. It's allon her. I'm of the belief that
(27:55):
they blew it with Deboor. Now. I'm probably in the minority, but
my view is you got a guythat you are absolutely want to keep,
you do everything you can to keephim. And that means the day after
the Oregon win in October, there'sa contract offer on his desk. They
didn't do that. They didn't inmy opinion, they didn't do everything they
could have to keep the bore.I don't know that it would have mattered,
(28:15):
but you want to at least giveit one hundred percent. The buyout
for Dannon, the buyout for Fish, it starts with her. It's if
you're a Husky fan who's upset that'swhere you need to be asking questions.
Gotcha, John, great stuff.Appreciate the bonus segment, and I'm sure
we'll have more to talk about byTuesday at five o'clock of next week.
Buddy, enjoy it, Man,Thank you, Tom can't wait. Thanks
(28:37):
guys. All right, John Wilner, all right, there's a lot to
unpack their Dickie. We'll do thatnext on ninety three to three KJRFM.
Cow back to Sophie and Dick guns. What's radio ninety three point three KJRF
O Washington Huskies. See I don'tpress you're home for the Huskies. Pesman
is on my list. Would heleave? I don't know, But again
it's a big ten job, andhe was the deputy a at col for
(29:00):
a number of years. He understandsthe West coast. He understands the academic
athletic yin yang that Washington hands.In my opinion, they'd be dumb to
not give Pezman's serious serious consideration.Oh how about that? Johnny Willener coven
in hat covering in hat Man,he says, Chris Pezman of Houston is
(29:23):
a guy that you dubbed should absolutelylook at. Let me ask you a
question, right now, this verysecond. What is the percentage of people
listening in the audience that know what'sgoing on and why we're talking about Chris
Pesman. Out of one hundred people, how many people know in the day
and age of social media, I'mgonna go seventy five to eighty. So
(29:45):
does at least twenty five percent haveno idea what the hell's going on?
Yes, Troy Dannon has left Washingtonto become the new AD at Nebraska.
How about that stupid idiot? He'sout the door this morning. He was
in the desert yesterday at a friggindonor event with Anamarrakause and the head of
(30:07):
Montlake Futures and a bunch of donors, and then flew back with them this
morning from Palm Springs on the sameflight after Dan was introduced as the new
AD at Nebras that stuff that stuffout of movies right there. Oh my
god, So John says Chris Pesmanfrom Houston should be on their list.
He is. He is a VPfor athletics at the University of Houston.
(30:30):
He is not the AD actually,no, he is the ADM. Sorry,
that's his titles. He president,right, He's a former football player,
and he's now the AD at Houstonand would obviously be going to a
Big ten school where he would haveobviously a bigger war chest than he would
at Houston. Well, it's it'sso hard to evaluate. For us to
evaluate these I'm to evaluate head coaches, it's a lot easier. You go
(30:52):
look at the stats, you golook at the win loss record, you
go look at how many programs he'sbeen to and what he did with those
programs when he took him over andwhen he I mean, how do you
even evaluate these guys as far asathletic We didn't evaluate Troy Dana. There
was just a list and they hiredsomebody and we were like, Okay,
let's find out how he is.I mean, it's just it's not something
you can dive deep into. Soyou got to trust a guy like John
(31:15):
Wilner, who does know these guysa lot more than we do. Well,
I mean, what are what arethe traits of an AD that you're
looking for? Right? Like,if we were to put together a top
three electioned of the top three thingsthat we need from an athletic director,
what would those three things be?I think history, hiring, winning,
coaches in your big sports for sure. I think that's number one. Yep,
(31:38):
yep. I think number two isyou have to do And I don't
know if the Huskies did their duediligence on this, because I know that
nobody left to go to Tulane withTroy Danen, and I know that nobody
left Tulane to go to Washington withTroy Dannen. That's correct, And I
(31:59):
doubt anybody's going to leave you togo to Nebraska with Troy Dannen. So
I think finding out what your employeesthink of this dude should be very high
on your list before hiring him.Well, I think I think number one
what you said history of hiring coachesis obviously number one. Personality is a
fundraiser, ability to connect with donorsto raise money for a department. And
(32:21):
then are you an innovator right?Are you a pioneer? Are you a
trendsetter? Are you leading the waywhen it comes to ads and not following
along? So the first two thingsare way more important, obviously, because
you want a guy that the donorswant to give money too. Yes,
you want a guy that the donorswant to work for and want to give
him everything he needs. His abilityto connect to people, right, all
different kinds of people from different cultures, for example, because talking to the
(32:45):
school president is way different for someguys than talking to a football coach.
There are two different personalities. Thinkabout Anna Mark Housey's personality, which you
know very well, by the way, and now think about Jimmy Lake's personality.
You have to be able to connectwith both of them as an ad
So getting somebody who can connect todifferent personalities and even from different backgrounds and
(33:07):
different cultures, to me massively importantfor this guy and whoever. And it
doesn't work out, and it doesn'tsound like Troy that was Troy Dannon's strength,
that's for sure. I didn't thinkso. And I mean had conversations
with him. I have, Ihave, and you know, there's I
think there's a little aloofness there.I don't think there's any question about that.
But I think that you need tobe able to embrace donors, and
(33:30):
you need to be able to listento stories. And now those guys get
their ears bent at every single oneof these receptions. I imagine Troy Dannon
had quote unquote had to listen tofifteen different stories that he probably didn't give
a rats ask about last night atthat It's like you doing this show.
I mean everything, I say whatever, forget it, just boring right right
(33:52):
through one ear side right mean tooeverything, I say whatever. Jackson's asleep
in there, for God's sakes,I mean, listen, look at that
guy. We're gonna break Lance's ZRline, who would normally be with us
at five on Wednesdays. He'll joinus in talk Draft courtesy of Moss Bay
Hall. Next, as part ofour exclusive in depth coverage of the NFL,
(34:12):
Your Home for the twelfth Man proudlypresents NFL Network Draft analyst Lanzerline,
brought to you by Moss Bay HallQueen Anne Beer Hall's sister location on the
East Side in Kirkland. Incredible food, local craft beers, and fresh cocktails
with friends. Come check out MossBay Hall in the heart of downtown Kirkland.
Now with lanzer Line. Here's Saftyand Dick. All right. Normally
(34:35):
you'd hear this segment of five o'clockon Wednesdays, but today we make some
on the fly adjustments in game adjustments. Here the first fifteen script that plays
Dick just we're terrible own out thewindow, threw them out. They did
not work. We had to adjustit. Great teams, I think can
adjust it. We'll fly. Sothat's what we're doing, right. We
only gained thirty two yards on ourfirst sift. We're down twenty five to
nothing. Alrighty, so we gottaadjust. But he's gonna be with us
(34:58):
every Wednesday at five through the raftcourtesy of our friends at moss Bee Hall.
It's our friend from the NFL network, Lance Zerline. Lance, how
are you man, softy? Justtell the tell the truth. I was
late to my initial meeting with theteam. Yeah, and I did not
make a good first impression on theSeattle Seahawks with you know, they expected
(35:19):
me to be there at the combine. I ran late, I had my
ringer off, I overslept, whateverexcuses. I was actually just watching.
I just actually just watching tape andhad the ringer off, and I missed
the first one. But I'm gladto be here, really excited. Yeah,
well we are too. And Ididn't want to throw you under the
bush initially, right, maybe aftera couple of accountable all right, we'll
be account here's the deal. Lancefell asleep, all right, that's what
(35:43):
happened, all right, that's whyhe wasn't there at five o'clock. But
you said you're watching tape. Tellus who you were watching and what you
were watching that was so important youcouldn't come on the show. You don't
want to know. I'm I'm downto the dregs of Uh I should call
dregs, but I'm I'm really scrapingaround. I'm at three hundred and ninety
eight prospects so far written. Sothis was like the last Yeah, it's
(36:04):
like the last one ten and theseguys are not getting drafted. So if
you really must know, I watcheda tight end from Illinois State when you
were calling, and uh, let'ssee who's my other one? Wow man
tight end from Illinois State who cameover from Southeast Missouri State transferport of of
course, and uh, I don'tknow. There was a linebacker also,
Oh, a guy named Jalen nojohn Johnson something like that. He was.
(36:30):
I so easily forgot him. Icould tell you he has good instincts
and there's a really good tackler,but doesn't look like he has the athletic
profile. So it's something Johnson.I do remember that well, we'll ask
you. We'll ask more about himwhen the Seahawks drive him in the seventh
round, But you don't land Zerlinejoined us. You know we're gonna ask
you a lot about the top ofthe board, obviously, but I want
to ask you about a prospect fromtwo years ago, Sam Howell. What
(36:54):
did you think about Sam Howell inthe draft process two years ago? And
had your thoughts changed for the betteror for the worse since you've watched him
in the NFL. No, Ithink I had him dead on. He
was a player that I kind ofliked the year before, and of course
he had better he had better talentaround him the year before, his senior
(37:16):
year, his junior year, andthen his senior year. Honestly, I
just thought, you know that it'skind of a tricky offense over there with
with North Carolina because you have alot of one on one shots down the
field and you're just throwing go ballsand and there's no safety over the top,
and it's not what the NFL is. It's not an NFL throw.
And I thought Sam, when hewas forced to, you know, really
(37:38):
play like an NFL quarterback to throwat the anticipation make the intermediate throws.
He just had a tendency really toto be a little bit out of control
and not as accurate as he neededto be. And and I gave him
a grade that was commensurate with lowend starter to high end back up.
And I think that's what he is. I mean, I think that's who
(37:59):
he was, and I think he'sI think it's a great spot for him.
I think it's a great spot forthe for the Hawks because you know,
he's got some NFL experience under hisbelt. He's supposed to be,
you know, good in the room, and another set of eyes for Geno.
So I like the addition. Ijust you know, this is probably
what he is. A guy whodown the road will get another shot because
(38:20):
there will be an injury to somebodyat some point and he'll be able to
step in. And we call hima three game starter. I could you
want to know, if you canhave a guy come in and start for
three games and give you a chanceto win all three, that's I think,
Sam, how can be that?I just don't think he is a
solution for a team. Well,we got we got about seven weeks here,
so plenty of time to talk aboutall these prospects, and just so
you know, we're gonna go heavySeahawks and heavy Washington Husky prospects in a
(38:44):
great year to be an Husky prospectbecause there's a lot of guys coming out
of you, Dub. But letme go back to the Sam Howe thing
for a second, because you knowhow NFL front offices work. Dick and
I had a debate last week aboutthe difference between should and will, meaning
should the Sam Howe arrival change theSeahawk plans at quarterback in the draft,
and will it change their plans inthe draft. So, for example,
(39:07):
if John Schneider has been loving MichaelPennix or j J. McCarthy and has
a chance to get him in thefirst round, do you think Sam Howe
or Geno Smith will preclude him fromdoing that? No? No, he
if you know, well, firstof all, we're talking about one of
the longest long shots, John Schneider, trade up in the first right,
but he likes to head the otherway. Yeah, but you know,
(39:30):
no, neither one of those guyscan preclude you. If you really believe
in a guy that you think youcan win at a at a really high
level, with a guy that youcan, you know, help compete for
a Super Bowl again and and beup there in the names in the in
the NFC to at the very topand NFC, you know, the the
championship game. No, then youmake that. You make that decision every
(39:52):
day, all day. You shouldalways do that. However, you know,
I just I don't know if there'sgonna be some competition to get up
there. And I frankly, Ithink I think JJ McCarthy is going to
be the fourth guy off the board, maybe even the third player off the
board, third quarterback. There's achance to goes quarterback one through four.
I just think it's gonna go tooearly for John Schneider and the Seahawks to
(40:15):
be in contention. But at thesame time, no Gino Smith at this
agent Sam Howe with you know whatwe've seen from him, they would not
preclude you from looking at quarterback.If that was a decision you were planning
on making, well you brought onMcCarthy. We have had a lot of
debate on McCarthy on this radio stationover the last couple three weeks. Where
are you on him? And whythe just massive jump for JJ McCarthy from
(40:38):
December to now. Well, well, it's it's really I think what I'm
finding is this is one of theserare instances. It's not rare, but
this is one of the most rareinstances where the general media and draft media
there the way that they value J. J. McCarthy and I'm gonna put
(41:01):
myself in this obviously versus NFL teamsis just substantially different. I've talked to
more than I probably talked about fivedifferent evaluators on teams. One of them
was a quarterback coach, and theyall love love different things on Sam or
rather on JJ McCarthy that you know, we might not be looking for.
(41:22):
And I watch a lot of tapeand I just I wasn't wowed by him.
I just thought, you know,this is fine, there's nothing really
exciting. But I think it's theway he manages the game, and I
think it's the way that he canaccess winning plays. I know, for
this quarterback coach I talked to,he said, look, he has a
winning background from in two different highschools he went to, he won,
(41:45):
he won a national championship in college. There's something about him where he has
that intangible and we know the quarterbackposition is a lot less about the arm
strength and you know, the explosiverunning plays and things. It's really about
can you outthink the defense? Canyou can you make clutch plays at clutch
times? Do you have poise?And I think a lot of people in
(42:06):
the NFL look at him and theysee really elite processing the ability to get
to certain reads, and I thinkthat's something that you need to be inside
the league to really get a realfeel for that about how he's doing with
his reads. And he played inthe pro style offense. I mean,
NFL teams can see him in apro style offense and it's way easier to
project, to be honest with you, And I think Michael Pennix, you
know you didn't ask me about Pinnis, but I thought Ryan Grubbs offense did
(42:30):
a great job of creating opportunities forPinnicks to show NFL teams what it would
look like if you were throwing inan NFL passing scheme. I think that
was a big advantage. But withMcCarthy, you know, I'm back into
the first on him, so Iwouldn't take him in the top ten,
but you know that I do seesome of the things that people see in
(42:51):
him, it's just I just can'tget there with them. Yeah, the
penis thing is interesting to me becausewe saw him play twenty eight straight games
lance at Washington, and yet wehear from people that he's got an injury
history. Okay, he did havean injury history, and then he went
to U dub and started twenty eightgames in a row. And that Sugar
Bowl performance when he was stepping awayfrom guys like Byron Murphy and sweat and
(43:15):
pressure was sensational. So he's alightning rod. I mean, there is
a there's not a consensus at allon Michael Pennix, is there? No,
not really, And it's tough becauseit only takes one so I could
see, you know, I thoughtDaniel Jeremiah putting him in the first route
of the Raiders is really intriguing.Yea in his last mock. You know,
I don't have him there, butI can tell you this. So
(43:37):
four straight years of season ending injuryis a concern. I talked to a
representative of his We were going overthe shoulder stuff, and one of them
is an ac joint sprain that allquarterbacks get. The other one is not
was not even on his not isnot on his throwing arm, but it's
all healed up. Two ACL tearson the same knee. He's not a
big runner, as you guys know. He can, but he just chooses
(43:59):
not to. And I think oneof the problems I saw on tape is
that he is really a poor throweron the move. Like his accuracy numbers
run the twenty percent range when he'smoving his feet outside of the pocket.
Now, as it was pointed outto me, and this is accurate,
a lot of those are throwaways.But you know, you just can't you
can't default to throwing everything away.So, but when he's in the pocket
(44:20):
and the game you're referencing against Texaswas the best game I saw this year.
I mean the best game for aquarterback was Pennix versus Texas. Absolutely
brilliant. I was at the SuperBowl, the Sugar Bowl rather watching that
game, and I was blown away. He looked fantastic. Then I watched
the tape later, and you know, there are some times that he doesn't
take sacks, which I love isan offensive line coach's son. I love
(44:43):
when when quarterbacks don't take sacks.But and so that's a big bonus for
him. But I think one ofthe things I noticed on tape is he
had a tendency because of having Polkand McMillan and a Donza. You could
throw some of those balls up inone on one and they had a great
chance of making a fifty to fiftyseventy thirty ball in their favor. So
those are some things you can't necessarilyand you won't necessarily get away with on
(45:07):
the next level. But you know, I like Michael Pennix. I do
think the injury background is going tobe a concern for some teams. I
don't think the age is going tobe that big a concern. He'll be
twenty five as a rookie. Italked to I asked a quarterback coach specifically,
does this bother you? I aska general manager. They said,
no quarterbacks playing until they're you know, mid thirties, late thirties. We're
(45:27):
talking about ten years down the road. Who cares? You know? That's
fine. So I don't think theage is I think the health stuff it
will be a little bit of aconcern for a lot of teams. Well,
it's interesting with Mike because it seemslike he does things when he needs
to do things. In the casein point, that Texas game, we
kind of knew he was going tobe more mobile in that game. We
were kind of tipped off to that. And then and then the USC game.
I mean, my god, wasthere a better throw made by a
(45:51):
college football player than Pennicks rolling tohis left against USC, getting smashed out
of bounds and throwing a dart intothe corner of the end zone for twenty
five. So it almost seems likehe can if he needs to. But
but you're saying that, you know, just not consistent enough. Then no,
and not consistent enough. But youknow what, really, when you
(46:12):
look at Seattle specifically, you justtalked about moving up, how about not
moving up? And how about Seattleas the second rounder this year? Right?
No, No, they don't.They lost it in the in the
Leonard Williams straight. I bet youthey will though, because like you said,
John likes to trade down. Well, I mean, I tell you,
if you like Michael Pennix, becauseyou guys offensive coordinator, you've got
Scott Huff the offensive why coach.I love both those I think both those
(46:35):
guys are really talented. You know, Pennix might be one of those guys
that if you trade back and you'reable to add a second rounder, that
is a guy that I might considertaking a look at. You know,
it's kind of a it's a toughcall to do that when you have three
quarterbacks in the room and Pennis wouldbe a clear cut third where he wouldn't
be able to play. And Ithink one of the tough things is,
(46:57):
now that I'm thinking out loud,you got a twenty five year old hookie
and you'd have to sit him downbecause he's the third guy in there.
That's that would be awfully tough towait a year on. Pinnis like that.
If you were the number two,that might be another topic, unless
Seattle was willing to move on fromGino Smith and move him in the trade.
But I just I just keep thinkingabout Grub and Huff and Pinnix altogether,
(47:21):
and I just I just can't helpto think that'd be a great comedy,
no question. Well, Lance Zerlinefrom the NFL Network going to be
with us every Wednesday at five o'clock. A little special time today, but
every Wednesday at five courtesy of MossBay Hall, The Queen An Beer Hall's
new venture on the East Side inKirkland, Win eleventh Central Way. Go
check it out. If you're afan of the queen An Beer Hall,
you will love this spot. SoI'm gonna read you some names here,
(47:44):
Lance, Justin, britt Ethan Posk, Austin blythe Evan Brown. The Seahawks
have had four year a lot ofstarting centers, that's right, for the
last six years, and I'm gettingtired of it. I think Seahawks fans
ever since they moved for Jimmy Grahamand gave up Max Hunger, they've had
a hell of a time filling thatspot. What do you make of the
kid from Oregon in Jackson Powers Johnson. I like him. He is a
(48:07):
barrel chest at three hundred and thirtyfour pounder, can play center guard,
which I love. You need tobe able to place two positions if you're
a center. What you'd like forhim to be able to especially if you're
considering that player in the first round. I think that'd be a little early
in the first for him. Tobe honest with you, He's not my
favorite interior lineman. My favorite isGraham Barton At, a duke who played
(48:28):
left tackle at Duke this year outof need. But Graham Barton can play
guard, can play center, canget you out of a game to tackle
if you need. You know,and I know Ethan Pochick Postage was doing
the same thing at LSU, playingmultiple positions. But this Graham Barton is.
You know, my dad was anNFL offensive line coach, and I've
put on some graand Barton because he'sone of my favorite players in the draft.
(48:49):
During Thanksgiving, I brought my tapeup there and we were watching some
or rather not Thanksgiving spring break herejust a couple of weeks ago, and
I put the tape on a grandBarton because I wanted to see what he
thought, because I knew he'd likehim. And boy didn't take long for
him say look at him, youknow, roll his hips up under him,
look at his hands, look athis feet. Well that's a great
job right there with with anchor.He's really does a great job with his
(49:13):
hands in his and his leverage andyou know everything that offensive line coaches wanted
to see, strong hands, bodycontrol. I mean, I think he'd
be a phenomenal pick for to toreally solidify. Like you said, they've
been chasing centers forever, solidify upthe middle, and you know, I
know that. I don't know ifyou know that. Well, obviously you
guys know this. There's like atwo hundred and seventy seven pounds center at
(49:36):
UDB who's now you know to Alabama? Oh yeah, Parker Berelsford. Yeah
sorry, yeah, yeah right,yeah yeah yeah. And I mean that's
that's at landish, a two hundredand seventy seven pounder. But but I
think that Scott Hoff has a reallyunique feel for what kind of players can
do, what kind of things.And I think if you gave the Seahawks
(49:58):
a guy like Graham Barton, whoyou can put center, you can put
a guard, He's an early starter. But I think John Powers Johnson is
an early starter too. I justhappened to like one guy a little better
than the other one. But Iwouldn't take either one of them there.
I think that would be you know, a classic John Snyder trade back and
then take one of those one ofthose two guys if you really wanted to
solidify the middle, which is notsexy but it's also smart. Yeah,
(50:22):
got you, Lance, You're theman. This is gonna be great.
Looking forward to it every Wednesday atfive and plan on five pm. All
right, five pm next Wednesday.All right man, good stuff, you
bet, Lance Zerline. He's gonnabe awesome.
Look, I was with the bigstory of the day. If you're just
joining us right now, Troy Danand taking off for Nebraska to be the
new ad at Washington, I knowa lot of people are mad about it.
A lot of people are pissed offabout this guy using Dub as a
stepping stone and going to Nebraska.I gotta be honest with you. I'll
just repeat some of the thoughts Igave you in the first hour of the
show, and Dick you can followit up. I just don't think he
(00:21):
was ever fully comfortable here. Inever think he was the right fit here
at Washington, and I just thinkin the end, I'm not surprised this
happened. I'm bummed out that youDub wasted their time with a guy for
five and a half months, ButI'm not bummed out to lose this guy
as the ad. No, I'mnot either. And I would not call
this a stepping stone situation because ofthe family part of it, because you
(00:43):
know his family, his wife's familyare all in Iowa. Obviously we've heard
that she didn't want him to takethis job in the first place, and
Nebraska is in no way a stepup for the University of Washington. Now,
I wouldn't be able to stay thatwith a straight face if the Huskies
were still in the past twelve theNebraska's in the Big Ten. But now
that they're in the same conference,and Washington has had far more success athletically
(01:06):
than Nebraska in most sports and includingthe biggest sport football that I mean,
Nebraska has been buried for it howlong, ten to fifteen years in football
it's been. It's been one ofthe laughing stocks of football for the last
decade. Yeah, I mean,I think I think they might be on
the way back, But I totallyagree with you that it's not a situation
where he's leaving for a better program. I think he's leaving for a better
(01:30):
life, at least what his familyfinds to be important. Did you see
there's an article that just came outin the last fifteen minutes or so that
Troy Dannen's home is twice he isselling it for twice as much as the
most expensive house in Lincoln, Nebraskathat's on the market right now. Okay,
so yeah, I mean, thinkabout think about the power that that
(01:55):
contract he has in Lincoln, Nebraska. As far as purchasing a home.
He can sell his house in Redmondand it would be twice as much as
And it's not like he's got thegreatest house in Redmen, right, he
just has a nice house in Redman, and it's twice as much as any
house in Lincoln, Nebraska that's onthe market right now. Yeah. I
heard it was a four and ahalf million dollar house in Redmand that he
(02:15):
bought here in Seattle, is whatI was told. So obviously it's gonna
be a different animal for him,But I think for Washington. Look,
I just don't know, and Iknow I asked Petros this and I asked
you this question. Do you goout and hire somebody that you think is
gonna want to be here for along time? And if the answer is
yes, then you're limiting your poolof people that you can choose from you
really are. I mean there's gonnabe guys out there that have backgrounds in
(02:38):
the PNW. There's also gonna beup and coming stars in the ad business
that may have no tide to thisplace whatsoever. So what do you want?
Yeah? I don't think. Idon't think Northwest ties are something I
want to limit myself I think theyare something that would enhance somebody's credentials if
they were already if they were alreadysolid credentials enough to be the University of
(03:00):
Washington athletic department or athletic director.Rather, I just want somebody that respects
this place. I want somebody thatknows a little bit about this place.
You could tell Troy Dana knew zeroabout Seattle and zero about the University of
Washington when he got here, rightof course, and you know, I
mean the day that he got hired, they had the press conference that you'd
at the crew House, and hetalked about how they need was at seven
(03:21):
home games minimum, whatever it was. In the Apple Cup conversation at of
Mark Holsey had to jump in andsay, hey, by the way,
we're having conversations about the Apple Cupright now. Like those guys, the
two of them weren't even on thesame page. You were there sitting right
next to me. They weren't evenon the same page in regards to what
the plan was for the Apple Cupon the day he was hired, and
I have heard that he did notwant to really prepare for that press conference.
(03:45):
He wanted to kind of he's like, Hey, I'm a Q and
a guy. I can handle this, right, And it tripped him up.
That part tripped him up right there, and he didn't. He did
not look good in that press conference, at least at that moment. The
Pat Chun situation is interesting because it'sit's not funny, but it's almost predictable.
How when somebody starts to leave allof a sudden, you start to
(04:09):
look at the negatives and maybe whyyou can justify a guy taking off.
And we're doing that with Troy Danenright now. I mean there were positives
to Troy. I think they werealso negatives to Troy, and I pointed
out some of those earlier on theshow experiences that we've had. But the
Cougar fans right now will tell youthat Pat Chun doesn't have the greatest relationship
with some of his coaches right nowin Pullman, and I wonder how much
(04:30):
of that is, Hey, there'sonly a certain amount of money I can
pay you. Right. It's differentat you, dub right because I add
think Pat Chun though, are theymet at the situation and pat Chun has
to happens to be the bad guy. I guess he has to tell him
that he can't pay him more.Possibly, or maybe they think that he
could find it and he just doesn'twant to do it for them. I
have no idea, but I thinkmost people in this business, players included,
(04:53):
will associate respect with how much moneythey're being paid. Okay, I
want respect, and that means Iwant my big page. So I can
see how some coaches on campus atWashington State might be a little bit down
on Pat Chun because there's only somuch of a pie he's got to work
with. I mean, it obviouslywould not be unlimited in Seattle, but
it would be more than what he'sgot to work with in Washington State.
(05:14):
So all the interactions I've had withPat Schun have been great. He's open
and honest about stuff. He seemsto be the kind of guy that donors
would like to hang with and contributeto. He's a smart guy. He's
been around the country. So whathe's done, honestly, what he's done
for Washington State, given the circumstancesfor them the last few years, including
the football team, I think it'sbeen pretty impressive. Well, you had
(05:38):
the Mike Leachs run in football,you had I mean Jake Dickard has done
a solid job since he's been thehead coach. He obviously hired the right
guy in basketball who was able totake a team that was predicted to be
tenth in the Pac twelve this yearand turn him into a second place team
and an NCAA tournament team and areasonably high seed one. So yeah,
I mean, I don't think there'sany blemishes on the resume, at least
(06:00):
as far as his hiring goes.Yeah, no, no question. And
I just think again, you're comingto Washington where you're going to have more
tools in your toolbox than you willin a place like Washington State. The
Jeremiah Donatti situation, to me isinteresting. He went to UPS meeting the
University of Puget Sound and now he'sat TCU. He's the ad at TCU,
He's in his mid forties, he'sgot experience. Does he want to
(06:20):
come back home and be a partof this thing? And that strikes me
as the kind of guy that mightwant to come back here and be here
for a while. But I alsowonder, you know, again, what
is wrong with why did Jen Cohenleave and why did Troy Dana not want
to be here, and maybe they'retwo completely different situations, right, and
maybe they're both justified. Jen washere for twenty five years, saw a
(06:42):
chance to go be the ad atone of the biggest sports factories in America
USC with a full share of bigtime money, and took off, okay,
and then this guy Dan and justhad a weird hiccup with his family,
didn't work out, had to leave. So do we associate anything consistent
with Detroit dand both leaving back toback And you can add Kitlyn Devor to
(07:03):
that, and I would say no. And that's why I would disagree with
that that the audio that we playedfrom Isaiah standback in fun with audio.
I don't think there is a systemicproblem at the University of Washington. I
think I think they are all separatecircumstances. I mean, would anybody three
months ago have said that the Universityof Washington is in a bad place right
(07:27):
now? Okay? Then then threemonths later it doesn't automatically just happen to
be in a bad place because twoguys take off the bones. The structure
of the University of Washington are absolutelyfine. They go into the big big
ten strong. Sure they might struggleright off the bat in football, because
they're going in with a half aroster right now, and you know,
we'll see who they hire in basketball. But I'm with you. I think
(07:50):
basketball can turn around very very quickly, just in this day and age of
nil in the transfer portal, youcan turn teams from worse to first very
very quickly, even in one season. All right, I want to have
a little extra time with John Dick, So let's break right here and we'll
come back with John Wilner next onninety three to three KJRFM, It's time
for our weekly Pac twelve conversation withSen Jose Mercury News reporter John Wilner,
(08:13):
brought to you by Simply Seattle.Our friends at simply Seattle dot com have
the most amazing collection of all thingsSeattle Seahawks gear UW had some of the
largest selection of Sonnex gear anywhere inthe world. Learn more at simply Seattle
dot com. All right, LordJamie and company guys at Simply Seattle,
it's gonna cost him bonus segment withJohn Wilner. Why couldn't this have happened
(08:37):
yesterday when John was on the airwith us for his weekly Tuesday segment.
For God's sakes, here he isfresh office kids baseball game. We appreciate
that. Johnny Wilner from the SanJose Mercury News and John Troy Dannon no
longer the Ada Washington, how surprisedwere you buy that news today? Fairly
(08:58):
surprised. Gotta admit, uh,just pretty much out of nowhere right.
And the thing is Nebraska. TrevAlberts accepted the Texas A and M job.
I think it was last It waseither last Tuesday or Wednesday, So
Nebraska. You know, that wasnot a month's long search that ended up
(09:18):
with Troy Dannon. It had beenjust a few days. So look,
it's easy to connect the dots here. Washington used Parker Executive Search to when
they were looking for an ad tohire and hire Danen. Yep, Nebraska
used Parker Executive Search right now tohire a new AD. Obviously Dannen knows
(09:43):
the folks there pretty well and clearlymade it apparent to them clear to them.
You know what, I'm not realhappy. If there's another option,
I would be willing to listen.And that's how it happened so quick.
Well, shouldn't Parker Executive Search takea little bit of the blame in this
and putting Troy dan And in aposition that he didn't want to have five
months later, they must have knownin the family situation. Well, what
(10:07):
Parker Executive Search and most firms dois they will, you know, they
will talk to the university president.They will get a sense for what what
are the type of people you're lookingfor, what is the background you're looking
for, and then they will presentthe president with a few candidates. Ultimately,
they're not saying pick Troy Dannon.I don't know the extent at Anna
(10:28):
Marie Calsay asked for their advice fora particular candidate versus just wanted them to
give her a short list. She'sultimately responsible for this. Did Parker do
the best job making sure that Dannin'spersonal situation was going to be okay?
Maybe not, But it ultimately fallson Calsay And the other piece I'd add
is I spoke to somebody this afternoonwho knows dan And well and talks to
(10:52):
Dannon regularly, and that person toldme that as soon as Troy got to
Seattle, he was like, ohboy, this is different. And you
know what, for a guy who'sgrowing up in the Midwest and then with
an ad in the South. You'redarn right it's going to be different when
you cross the Rockies. Somewhere therewas a breakdown in the vetting process about
the fit personally and culturally. No, it's balls on man nails right there,
(11:16):
because once the minute he got here, he was like a fish out
of water. I think a lotof people here, including me, by
the way, we're a little shockedby that. We were kind of shocked
by how standoffish he was. Hekind of had a bit of a syndrome,
if you will, really did notseem to be willing and able and
even desiring to get along with peopleand get to know people here on a
(11:37):
very personal level. From a mediaperspective, he was not like what anybody
here has been used to, evengoing back to Scott Woodward, Jen Cohen,
Todd Turner, and Barbara Hedges.So I think you're right that there
was a bit of a culture shockfor him. How much of that do
you think is why he left andhow much do you think this was just
personal with him and his family notwanting to be here. I think it
(12:00):
was both. I think those twothings are intertwined as well. I mean
he spent I was told he spentmost of December in New Orleans. Right
now, you can understand from afamily standpoint, it's the holidays, but
the entire month, that's a crucialmonth. Washington's getting ready for the playoffs.
It's an important month for meet withdonors, right and he's not there.
(12:20):
And I think that contributed to thefact that he felt a disconnect and
that the folks at Washington didn't feela connection with him, and that you
wrap it all to you put itall in a cauldron, and the end
result is it just didn't work andthe ball was dropped in the process.
And let's see first two things.One how much did Washington pay Parker Executive
(12:43):
Search for the process that led toDannon? And Two is Ano Marie Kause
going to use Parker Executive Search againfor the next hire? How do you
compare the jobs Nebraska versus Washington.Let's put all the family stuff behind and
just Nebraska's athletic department versus Washington's athleticdepartment. So if you're taking out the
fact that he's a Midwestern guy andyou're just a school versus school yes,
(13:07):
what's he getting versus what's he's turningdown? Well, here's well, here's
one of the big things he's getting. That's a full share of Big ten
revenue for six years and that Idon't know if that played a role,
but you know, Washington is goingto be thirty million behind and Big ten
media revenue for six years one hundredand eighty million behind. Maybe maybe he
(13:31):
thought, you know what, that'sthat's gonna make it hard for us to
compete. Nebraska is a full fullshare member. But you know, he
knew that when he took the job. I think Washington is a great place.
He knew that when he took thejob. Did he wake up He
did? Indeed, did he oneday and go oh, I forgot about
that part of it? No,not necessarily. But if you if you
(13:54):
layer onto that any kind of promisesof commitment to athletics that may have been
made, and that he didn't feellike we're going to be come to fruition,
then maybe you know a lot ofthis I get back to it,
it's on the president, right.The success of any athletic department ultimately starts
with the president. Right. It'sa triangle the president at the top is
(14:16):
the eighty and it's the football coach. If you've got those three spots in
alignment, all working together for thesame goals, you got a much better
chance to succeed. If your presidentis not all in with football, and
if she talks talks to talk,doesn't walk the walk, then you got
problems. Yeah. I do knowthis, guys, that one of Troy's
(14:37):
biggest priorities, if not his biggestpriority, was convincing Upper Campus to give
him more help financially. I doknow that that was something he was focused
in on, and it's certainly possiblethat he got a little frustrated and maybe
even disenfranchised with that process and justsaid, I can't do what I want
to do here. I'm going toa place where maybe I can do what
(14:58):
I want to do. So nowthe question is what does U DUB do.
Do they turn to somebody who theymaybe have a little more faith in,
would stick around for a while.Do you still look for the best
candidate available? How much will thisexperience kind of influence you think what anamarracoalse
does next. I don't she shouldlearn from it if it's up to me,
(15:20):
If she's paying me, say,thirty seven fifty thirty seven dollars,
not thirty seven grand. She's payingme thirty seven dollars to offer her advice.
It would be to hire someone whoeither has worked at U dub or
understands the Pacific Northwest, where atthe very least is familiar with the West
(15:41):
coast culture has worked out here.I think there's some very good candidates that
have worked in the Pac twelve.It's just different. You cross the Rockies
and it's different, especially if yourbackground is entirely in the eastern half of
the country. I mean Deboor,he did have what a couple of years
at Fresno, But you know,Deboor was also a little bit of an
fit to me too. And we'veseen that over and over with Pac twelve
(16:03):
schools, with eighties football coaches andmen's basketball coaches. You hire somebody who
doesn't have roots out here, andthey take the first chance they can to
get home. Oregon football has learnedthat lesson the hard way. Well,
there's one three hundred miles east patChun Washington State University. If we called
him, if Anna Maury Casse calledhim tomorrow and so will you come,
what do you think he says,and do you think that would be the
(16:25):
right fit here? Well, Idon't know what Pat would say and the
fit piece. What I can't answeron that is how the U of Athletic
Department would would feel about hiring Cougarright now. The last nine months haven't
been great for obvious reasons. I'mnot aware of a situation where Pat has
(16:48):
been publicly critical of Jen Cohen orthe way Washingt runs it Athletic department.
Yeah, but I don't know howthat would go over. If you're just
talking about is he qualified, theanswer is one hundred percent. He's a
phenomenal ad. He checks every singlebox, fundraising track record for hiring,
understanding the NCAA landscape, understanding thebig ten. I mean he went to
(17:11):
a house state and worked at OHIOSK. He knows the big ten. He
knows he is a strategic thinker,He can raise money. I mean,
the guy is incredibly qualified. Ijust don't know about the rivalry piece,
and I don't know if he wouldgo Yeah. Well, I can tell
you this that Jen Cohen and PatJohn have a fantastic relationship. Fantastic relationship,
(17:33):
so yes they do. They havespent Thanksgivings together their family have I
know they did now. I don'tknow how much they have talked since August
fourth, because I know that youknow, it's impossible to avoid hurt feelings.
But there's no question if if Anmarecalled Chien and said, what do
you think of Pat Chuhn, Ihave to believe the recommendation would be stellar.
No, no, no question,John. I do wonder because Nebraska
(17:57):
just moved very fast going from Albert'sDetroit Dannen, should we expect that Annamarkause
could do the same thing Because sheliterally six months ago just had a list
right of athletic directors that she wantedto talk to about the job. That
that list is still very fresh,it's only five and a half months old.
(18:18):
So given that she just went throughthis process, is a fair to
expect that this time around won't takenearly as long? No, I would
think that's true. But what didit take six weeks eight weeks to get
dan and hired once Jen left?I want to Darnen was hired in October
of last year, and Jen Cohenwas hired at USC in Cowch over the
(18:42):
summer mid to late August. Ithink boy it was August, correct,
August, Yeah, it was twomonths based too much? Two months?
It could be it could be acouple of weeks. What I don't you
guys may have a better idea aboutthis. I've been in a little league
game. Are they going to hirea basketball coach first? Or they gonna
hire an AD and then have Hillhire the basketball Well, I think,
(19:02):
I mean there are ways down theroad and Aaron O'Connell, the interim now
AD has been involved in the hiringprocess. So don't you think it makes
sense to just pass the baton andlet them continue that process play out,
kind of like I mean, JenCohen was very involved in the hiring process
of Chris Peterson even though she wasn'tthe a D at the time. Yeah,
(19:26):
no, it does make sense.The question is, are you gonna
are the people who would take thejob gonna you know, if if Gannon
had still been there, are theygonna be willing to take the job when
they don't know who their boss isgonna be? Because the basketball coach's boss
is the a D. And you'reyou know, you have no idea what
they're gonna do. Maybe Washington canmake some promises on that front, like
(19:47):
it's gonna be either X, Yor Z. But I do wonder if
the Kims pool will be affected bythe fact that there is no AD.
Yeah, I think. I thinkfor certain people it might, no doubt.
Uh. I think if it's aDanny Sprinkle type situation, it may
not matter. If it's a WillWade or an Eric Musselman type situation,
it may matter. But for otherguys that you know desperately, not desperately,
(20:10):
but really have a desire for thisjob. Danny Sprinkle's dad played football
that you dub by the way,so if this has been a job that
he's been targeting for a while,it may not matter who the new AD
is. But I just guess theother oning is I'm sorry to interrupts,
but the other thing that we needto keep in mind is it is both
jobs men's basketball and AD. Theyare big ten jobs, and there's a
(20:30):
lot of appeal even with the revenuediscount that they're getting. We see it
every day, right and the CFPsituation is more evidence the big ten in
the SEC are the places to beand there are coaches and ads that would
take the job a big ten job, even if they don't do their bosses.
Well, we talked about the Chunsituation. He certainly got good news
(20:52):
today. I don't know if thatchanges his you know, his approach to
the future and what he does.But what did wazoo in os you expect
in the first place to get fromthat CFP contract And why did it balloon
from three hundred k to three millionpoint six million or whatever. Well,
because what they expected was about threethree point six million. Right they they
(21:15):
were at the CFP had said everybody'sgoing to get an increase, and everybody
did get an increase except Washington Stateand Oregon State got ninety percent decreases.
Now, I don't know exactly whathas happened in those discussions since Friday,
but I would hazard to guess thatthere was the threat of a lawsuit,
some kind of anti trust, somekind of collusion lawsuits that Washington State and
(21:37):
Horkin State made known to the CFP. You got every other school one hundred
and thirty schools are getting increases andthe two of us are getting huge haircuts.
And the thing is they were beingtreated as independents when they're not independents.
They're in a conference. There's goingto be a conference. They're going
(21:59):
to be in conference in twenty twentysix. So my guess is that there
was some legal action threatened, andgood they've got Now they've got the money
they expected and it's going to helpthem, right all right. I want
to go back to the up thingfor a second, because we got to
talk about these candidates. Man John. By the way, I just heard
back from somebody who said the typicalParker search firm is either low six figures
(22:22):
or a percentage of the first yearsalary of the person that was hired.
So we're talking, you know,around one hundred grand is what they paid
for them to find a guy thatwas there for five months. But I
just got a text from a formerHusky, big time legend. I want
to tell you who it is,who says I hope Chris Pesman from Houston
is strongly considered. And his namewas on the list as well the first
(22:45):
time around. I know ed Scottfrom Virginia. Jeremiah Donatti, who went
to college here in the area,is the ad at TCU. Stephanie Rempi's
name and Nevada had been brought upagain. Chrissy Rawalk from Delaware is there
a hot can it out there thatanamar Ak Cassay should be keeping an eye
on? You think, well,if we're taking if we're excluding Chun from
(23:07):
this discussion right here. I mean, I published a column today and Chris
Peesman is on my list. Ithink the guy is very sharp. He
was a finalist in the fall.He played football Houston. He's the ad
at Houston. Would he leave,I don't know, but again, it's
a big ten job, and hewas the deputy a d at CAL for
(23:32):
a number of years. He understandsthe West Coast. He understands the academic
athletic yin Yang that Washington has.I think that the Huskies would, in
my opinion, they'd be dumb tonot give Pezman serious serious consideration. I
also would say Terry Toomey was onmy list in the fall. He's the
(23:55):
ade at Presido of State who hiredKaylin de Boor in twenty twenty. He
made a lot of sense in thefall. Debor was there. I think
he still makes sense. The guy'sgot a master's degree from UCLA. He
was an All Pack ten defensive linemanat UCLA. He's worked in the NFL.
He had enough sense to hire Deboor. He should be strongly considered as
well. John. If you're aschool president and I gave you the choice,
(24:17):
you had to pick one of thesetwo candidates. One is an AD
that's beloved by everybody, beloved bythe coaches, his staff, runs a
clean ship, but maybe is alittle you know, stuck in two thousands
college athletics instead of going forward twentytwenties twenty thirties college athletics. Or a
(24:37):
guy that appears to be more likeDannin, who maybe isn't beloved by the
people he works with, but isdefinitely a forward thinker and understands what it
takes to run an athletic department inthe twenty thirties. I mean, I
would probably take the latter. Ithink the most important thing is setting your
(24:59):
athletic department up for success in acollege athletic industry that is gonna change.
Not only has it changed an immenseamount in the last two or three years
with nil and the portal and allthat, it's gonna change that much more
in the next two or three years. So to me, you gotta have
a strategic thinker. I don't thinkyour AD has to be beloved I mean,
if the ad is despised and theculture in the department is rotten,
(25:22):
now you're losing good people. Yeah, that's not good. But I don't
think you have to be beloved.I think you have to just be a
strategic thinker who understands what works atthe school and also is very into nil
and football against football has got tobe the priority. Yeah, totally agreeing.
(25:45):
All right, man, crazy crazyday in a crazy couple of months
for you. Dub Dick and Iwere talking twenty twenty one. It was
Jen Cone and Jimmy Lake, thenit was Jen and Kaylen, then it
was Troy and Kaalen, and nowit's god knows who and Jed fish Man.
So is the is the turnstile ofto slow down? Tell me it's
slowing down at you? Doub uhNo, I won't well. And here's
(26:07):
why I don't want. I don'twant to. I don't want to create
all kinds of issues with your listeners. But I mean, Florida Football.
There's a hot seat at Florida Footballnext season. And if anybody has looked
at the last eight weeks of Floridaschedule, you can there's no way you
can sketch out a winning season forthe Gators and Jedfish is a Florida alum.
(26:29):
Wow, that's what my last questionwas going to be. Do you
think this this goes a long wayinto changing Jedfish's mind on staying past the
three years that we thought he wasgonna stay. Well, we'll see who
I mean, that's another piece,right, you never know if he's not
gonna like the ad, will thatprompt him to be more interested in taking
the Florida job if it opens nextnext ball. I mean, I didn't
(26:51):
think Dann did the greatest job inthe world with either the Deboor dealings or
the Fish contract. Right. Thebuy out on the Fish contract is not
very high. And uh, youknow the given that guy's track record for
jumping from job to job and thefact that his his alma mater might be
open and it's in the sec right, I'm not gonna say. I'm not
(27:11):
saying it's gonna slow down. Andon Mott Lake not yet. Well,
and that brings up a good pointAnd we got a break here. But
we keep thinking of good stuff toask you. You keep giving us nuggets.
We got to follow up on thebuyout for Dan and the buyout for
Fish are minuscule. I mean,the buyout for Dan in his first year
in Nebraska is twelve million dollars Johnsix times more than was here, right,
(27:32):
I mean, is it time tomaybe ask Anna Mara to start getting
a little more greedy with these buyoutnumbers? It is uh, the success
or failure of any organization starts atthe top, and she is the top,
and that there's just no other wayaround it. She's in charge.
This is on her. It's allon her. I'm of the belief that
(27:55):
they blew it with Deboor. Now. I'm probably in the minority, but
my view is you got a guythat you are absolutely want to keep,
you do everything you can to keephim. And that means the day after
the Oregon win in October, there'sa contract offer on his desk. They
didn't do that. They didn't inmy opinion, they didn't do everything they
could have to keep the bore.I don't know that it would have mattered,
(28:15):
but you want to at least giveit one hundred percent. The buyout
for Dannon, the buyout for Fish, it starts with her. It's if
you're a Husky fan who's upset that'swhere you need to be asking questions.
Gotcha, John, great stuff.Appreciate the bonus segment, and I'm sure
we'll have more to talk about byTuesday at five o'clock of next week.
Buddy, enjoy it, Man,Thank you, Tom can't wait. Thanks
(28:37):
guys. All right, John Wilner, all right, there's a lot to
unpack their Dickie. We'll do thatnext on ninety three to three KJRFM.
Cow back to Sophie and Dick guns. What's radio ninety three point three KJRF
O Washington Huskies. See I don'tpress you're home for the Huskies. Pesman
is on my list. Would heleave? I don't know, But again
it's a big ten job, andhe was the deputy a at col for
(29:00):
a number of years. He understandsthe West coast. He understands the academic
athletic yin yang that Washington hands.In my opinion, they'd be dumb to
not give Pezman's serious serious consideration.Oh how about that? Johnny Willener coven
in hat covering in hat Man,he says, Chris Pezman of Houston is
(29:23):
a guy that you dubbed should absolutelylook at. Let me ask you a
question, right now, this verysecond. What is the percentage of people
listening in the audience that know what'sgoing on and why we're talking about Chris
Pesman. Out of one hundred people, how many people know in the day
and age of social media, I'mgonna go seventy five to eighty. So
(29:45):
does at least twenty five percent haveno idea what the hell's going on?
Yes, Troy Dannon has left Washingtonto become the new AD at Nebraska.
How about that stupid idiot? He'sout the door this morning. He was
in the desert yesterday at a friggindonor event with Anamarrakause and the head of
(30:07):
Montlake Futures and a bunch of donors, and then flew back with them this
morning from Palm Springs on the sameflight after Dan was introduced as the new
AD at Nebras that stuff that stuffout of movies right there. Oh my
god, So John says Chris Pesmanfrom Houston should be on their list.
He is. He is a VPfor athletics at the University of Houston.
(30:30):
He is not the AD actually,no, he is the ADM. Sorry,
that's his titles. He president,right, He's a former football player,
and he's now the AD at Houstonand would obviously be going to a
Big ten school where he would haveobviously a bigger war chest than he would
at Houston. Well, it's it'sso hard to evaluate. For us to
evaluate these I'm to evaluate head coaches, it's a lot easier. You go
(30:52):
look at the stats, you golook at the win loss record, you
go look at how many programs he'sbeen to and what he did with those
programs when he took him over andwhen he I mean, how do you
even evaluate these guys as far asathletic We didn't evaluate Troy Dana. There
was just a list and they hiredsomebody and we were like, Okay,
let's find out how he is.I mean, it's just it's not something
you can dive deep into. Soyou got to trust a guy like John
(31:15):
Wilner, who does know these guysa lot more than we do. Well,
I mean, what are what arethe traits of an AD that you're
looking for? Right? Like,if we were to put together a top
three electioned of the top three thingsthat we need from an athletic director,
what would those three things be?I think history, hiring, winning,
coaches in your big sports for sure. I think that's number one. Yep,
(31:38):
yep. I think number two isyou have to do And I don't
know if the Huskies did their duediligence on this, because I know that
nobody left to go to Tulane withTroy Danen, and I know that nobody
left Tulane to go to Washington withTroy Dannen. That's correct, And I
(31:59):
doubt anybody's going to leave you togo to Nebraska with Troy Dannen. So
I think finding out what your employeesthink of this dude should be very high
on your list before hiring him.Well, I think I think number one
what you said history of hiring coachesis obviously number one. Personality is a
fundraiser, ability to connect with donorsto raise money for a department. And
(32:21):
then are you an innovator right?Are you a pioneer? Are you a
trendsetter? Are you leading the waywhen it comes to ads and not following
along? So the first two thingsare way more important, obviously, because
you want a guy that the donorswant to give money too. Yes,
you want a guy that the donorswant to work for and want to give
him everything he needs. His abilityto connect to people, right, all
different kinds of people from different cultures, for example, because talking to the
(32:45):
school president is way different for someguys than talking to a football coach.
There are two different personalities. Thinkabout Anna Mark Housey's personality, which you
know very well, by the way, and now think about Jimmy Lake's personality.
You have to be able to connectwith both of them as an ad
So getting somebody who can connect todifferent personalities and even from different backgrounds and
(33:07):
different cultures, to me massively importantfor this guy and whoever. And it
doesn't work out, and it doesn'tsound like Troy that was Troy Dannon's strength,
that's for sure. I didn't thinkso. And I mean had conversations
with him. I have, Ihave, and you know, there's I
think there's a little aloofness there.I don't think there's any question about that.
But I think that you need tobe able to embrace donors, and
(33:30):
you need to be able to listento stories. And now those guys get
their ears bent at every single oneof these receptions. I imagine Troy Dannon
had quote unquote had to listen tofifteen different stories that he probably didn't give
a rats ask about last night atthat It's like you doing this show.
I mean everything, I say whatever, forget it, just boring right right
(33:52):
through one ear side right mean tooeverything, I say whatever. Jackson's asleep
in there, for God's sakes,I mean, listen, look at that
guy. We're gonna break Lance's ZRline, who would normally be with us
at five on Wednesdays. He'll joinus in talk Draft courtesy of Moss Bay
Hall. Next, as part ofour exclusive in depth coverage of the NFL,
(34:12):
Your Home for the twelfth Man proudlypresents NFL Network Draft analyst Lanzerline,
brought to you by Moss Bay HallQueen Anne Beer Hall's sister location on the
East Side in Kirkland. Incredible food, local craft beers, and fresh cocktails
with friends. Come check out MossBay Hall in the heart of downtown Kirkland.
Now with lanzer Line. Here's Saftyand Dick. All right. Normally
(34:35):
you'd hear this segment of five o'clockon Wednesdays, but today we make some
on the fly adjustments in game adjustments. Here the first fifteen script that plays
Dick just we're terrible own out thewindow, threw them out. They did
not work. We had to adjustit. Great teams, I think can
adjust it. We'll fly. Sothat's what we're doing, right. We
only gained thirty two yards on ourfirst sift. We're down twenty five to
nothing. Alrighty, so we gottaadjust. But he's gonna be with us
(34:58):
every Wednesday at five through the raftcourtesy of our friends at moss Bee Hall.
It's our friend from the NFL network, Lance Zerline. Lance, how
are you man, softy? Justtell the tell the truth. I was
late to my initial meeting with theteam. Yeah, and I did not
make a good first impression on theSeattle Seahawks with you know, they expected
(35:19):
me to be there at the combine. I ran late, I had my
ringer off, I overslept, whateverexcuses. I was actually just watching.
I just actually just watching tape andhad the ringer off, and I missed
the first one. But I'm gladto be here, really excited. Yeah,
well we are too. And Ididn't want to throw you under the
bush initially, right, maybe aftera couple of accountable all right, we'll
be account here's the deal. Lancefell asleep, all right, that's what
(35:43):
happened, all right, that's whyhe wasn't there at five o'clock. But
you said you're watching tape. Tellus who you were watching and what you
were watching that was so important youcouldn't come on the show. You don't
want to know. I'm I'm downto the dregs of Uh I should call
dregs, but I'm I'm really scrapingaround. I'm at three hundred and ninety
eight prospects so far written. Sothis was like the last Yeah, it's
(36:04):
like the last one ten and theseguys are not getting drafted. So if
you really must know, I watcheda tight end from Illinois State when you
were calling, and uh, let'ssee who's my other one? Wow man
tight end from Illinois State who cameover from Southeast Missouri State transferport of of
course, and uh, I don'tknow. There was a linebacker also,
Oh, a guy named Jalen nojohn Johnson something like that. He was.
(36:30):
I so easily forgot him. Icould tell you he has good instincts
and there's a really good tackler,but doesn't look like he has the athletic
profile. So it's something Johnson.I do remember that well, we'll ask
you. We'll ask more about himwhen the Seahawks drive him in the seventh
round, But you don't land Zerlinejoined us. You know we're gonna ask
you a lot about the top ofthe board, obviously, but I want
to ask you about a prospect fromtwo years ago, Sam Howell. What
(36:54):
did you think about Sam Howell inthe draft process two years ago? And
had your thoughts changed for the betteror for the worse since you've watched him
in the NFL. No, Ithink I had him dead on. He
was a player that I kind ofliked the year before, and of course
he had better he had better talentaround him the year before, his senior
(37:16):
year, his junior year, andthen his senior year. Honestly, I
just thought, you know that it'skind of a tricky offense over there with
with North Carolina because you have alot of one on one shots down the
field and you're just throwing go ballsand and there's no safety over the top,
and it's not what the NFL is. It's not an NFL throw.
And I thought Sam, when hewas forced to, you know, really
(37:38):
play like an NFL quarterback to throwat the anticipation make the intermediate throws.
He just had a tendency really toto be a little bit out of control
and not as accurate as he neededto be. And and I gave him
a grade that was commensurate with lowend starter to high end back up.
And I think that's what he is. I mean, I think that's who
(37:59):
he was, and I think he'sI think it's a great spot for him.
I think it's a great spot forthe for the Hawks because you know,
he's got some NFL experience under hisbelt. He's supposed to be,
you know, good in the room, and another set of eyes for Geno.
So I like the addition. Ijust you know, this is probably
what he is. A guy whodown the road will get another shot because
(38:20):
there will be an injury to somebodyat some point and he'll be able to
step in. And we call hima three game starter. I could you
want to know, if you canhave a guy come in and start for
three games and give you a chanceto win all three, that's I think,
Sam, how can be that?I just don't think he is a
solution for a team. Well,we got we got about seven weeks here,
so plenty of time to talk aboutall these prospects, and just so
you know, we're gonna go heavySeahawks and heavy Washington Husky prospects in a
(38:44):
great year to be an Husky prospectbecause there's a lot of guys coming out
of you, Dub. But letme go back to the Sam Howe thing
for a second, because you knowhow NFL front offices work. Dick and
I had a debate last week aboutthe difference between should and will, meaning
should the Sam Howe arrival change theSeahawk plans at quarterback in the draft,
and will it change their plans inthe draft. So, for example,
(39:07):
if John Schneider has been loving MichaelPennix or j J. McCarthy and has
a chance to get him in thefirst round, do you think Sam Howe
or Geno Smith will preclude him fromdoing that? No? No, he
if you know, well, firstof all, we're talking about one of
the longest long shots, John Schneider, trade up in the first right,
but he likes to head the otherway. Yeah, but you know,
(39:30):
no, neither one of those guyscan preclude you. If you really believe
in a guy that you think youcan win at a at a really high
level, with a guy that youcan, you know, help compete for
a Super Bowl again and and beup there in the names in the in
the NFC to at the very topand NFC, you know, the the
championship game. No, then youmake that. You make that decision every
(39:52):
day, all day. You shouldalways do that. However, you know,
I just I don't know if there'sgonna be some competition to get up
there. And I frankly, Ithink I think JJ McCarthy is going to
be the fourth guy off the board, maybe even the third player off the
board, third quarterback. There's achance to goes quarterback one through four.
I just think it's gonna go tooearly for John Schneider and the Seahawks to
(40:15):
be in contention. But at thesame time, no Gino Smith at this
agent Sam Howe with you know whatwe've seen from him, they would not
preclude you from looking at quarterback.If that was a decision you were planning
on making, well you brought onMcCarthy. We have had a lot of
debate on McCarthy on this radio stationover the last couple three weeks. Where
are you on him? And whythe just massive jump for JJ McCarthy from
(40:38):
December to now. Well, well, it's it's really I think what I'm
finding is this is one of theserare instances. It's not rare, but
this is one of the most rareinstances where the general media and draft media
there the way that they value J. J. McCarthy and I'm gonna put
(41:01):
myself in this obviously versus NFL teamsis just substantially different. I've talked to
more than I probably talked about fivedifferent evaluators on teams. One of them
was a quarterback coach, and theyall love love different things on Sam or
rather on JJ McCarthy that you know, we might not be looking for.
(41:22):
And I watch a lot of tapeand I just I wasn't wowed by him.
I just thought, you know,this is fine, there's nothing really
exciting. But I think it's theway he manages the game, and I
think it's the way that he canaccess winning plays. I know, for
this quarterback coach I talked to,he said, look, he has a
winning background from in two different highschools he went to, he won,
(41:45):
he won a national championship in college. There's something about him where he has
that intangible and we know the quarterbackposition is a lot less about the arm
strength and you know, the explosiverunning plays and things. It's really about
can you outthink the defense? Canyou can you make clutch plays at clutch
times? Do you have poise?And I think a lot of people in
(42:06):
the NFL look at him and theysee really elite processing the ability to get
to certain reads, and I thinkthat's something that you need to be inside
the league to really get a realfeel for that about how he's doing with
his reads. And he played inthe pro style offense. I mean,
NFL teams can see him in apro style offense and it's way easier to
project, to be honest with you, And I think Michael Pennix, you
know you didn't ask me about Pinnis, but I thought Ryan Grubbs offense did
(42:30):
a great job of creating opportunities forPinnicks to show NFL teams what it would
look like if you were throwing inan NFL passing scheme. I think that
was a big advantage. But withMcCarthy, you know, I'm back into
the first on him, so Iwouldn't take him in the top ten,
but you know that I do seesome of the things that people see in
(42:51):
him, it's just I just can'tget there with them. Yeah, the
penis thing is interesting to me becausewe saw him play twenty eight straight games
lance at Washington, and yet wehear from people that he's got an injury
history. Okay, he did havean injury history, and then he went
to U dub and started twenty eightgames in a row. And that Sugar
Bowl performance when he was stepping awayfrom guys like Byron Murphy and sweat and
(43:15):
pressure was sensational. So he's alightning rod. I mean, there is
a there's not a consensus at allon Michael Pennix, is there? No,
not really, And it's tough becauseit only takes one so I could
see, you know, I thoughtDaniel Jeremiah putting him in the first route
of the Raiders is really intriguing.Yea in his last mock. You know,
I don't have him there, butI can tell you this. So
(43:37):
four straight years of season ending injuryis a concern. I talked to a
representative of his We were going overthe shoulder stuff, and one of them
is an ac joint sprain that allquarterbacks get. The other one is not
was not even on his not isnot on his throwing arm, but it's
all healed up. Two ACL tearson the same knee. He's not a
big runner, as you guys know. He can, but he just chooses
(43:59):
not to. And I think oneof the problems I saw on tape is
that he is really a poor throweron the move. Like his accuracy numbers
run the twenty percent range when he'smoving his feet outside of the pocket.
Now, as it was pointed outto me, and this is accurate,
a lot of those are throwaways.But you know, you just can't you
can't default to throwing everything away.So, but when he's in the pocket
(44:20):
and the game you're referencing against Texaswas the best game I saw this year.
I mean the best game for aquarterback was Pennix versus Texas. Absolutely
brilliant. I was at the SuperBowl, the Sugar Bowl rather watching that
game, and I was blown away. He looked fantastic. Then I watched
the tape later, and you know, there are some times that he doesn't
take sacks, which I love isan offensive line coach's son. I love
(44:43):
when when quarterbacks don't take sacks.But and so that's a big bonus for
him. But I think one ofthe things I noticed on tape is he
had a tendency because of having Polkand McMillan and a Donza. You could
throw some of those balls up inone on one and they had a great
chance of making a fifty to fiftyseventy thirty ball in their favor. So
those are some things you can't necessarilyand you won't necessarily get away with on
(45:07):
the next level. But you know, I like Michael Pennix. I do
think the injury background is going tobe a concern for some teams. I
don't think the age is going tobe that big a concern. He'll be
twenty five as a rookie. Italked to I asked a quarterback coach specifically,
does this bother you? I aska general manager. They said,
no quarterbacks playing until they're you know, mid thirties, late thirties. We're
(45:27):
talking about ten years down the road. Who cares? You know? That's
fine. So I don't think theage is I think the health stuff it
will be a little bit of aconcern for a lot of teams. Well,
it's interesting with Mike because it seemslike he does things when he needs
to do things. In the casein point, that Texas game, we
kind of knew he was going tobe more mobile in that game. We
were kind of tipped off to that. And then and then the USC game.
I mean, my god, wasthere a better throw made by a
(45:51):
college football player than Pennicks rolling tohis left against USC, getting smashed out
of bounds and throwing a dart intothe corner of the end zone for twenty
five. So it almost seems likehe can if he needs to. But
but you're saying that, you know, just not consistent enough. Then no,
and not consistent enough. But youknow what, really, when you
(46:12):
look at Seattle specifically, you justtalked about moving up, how about not
moving up? And how about Seattleas the second rounder this year? Right?
No, No, they don't.They lost it in the in the
Leonard Williams straight. I bet youthey will though, because like you said,
John likes to trade down. Well, I mean, I tell you,
if you like Michael Pennix, becauseyou guys offensive coordinator, you've got
Scott Huff the offensive why coach.I love both those I think both those
(46:35):
guys are really talented. You know, Pennix might be one of those guys
that if you trade back and you'reable to add a second rounder, that
is a guy that I might considertaking a look at. You know,
it's kind of a it's a toughcall to do that when you have three
quarterbacks in the room and Pennis wouldbe a clear cut third where he wouldn't
be able to play. And Ithink one of the tough things is,
(46:57):
now that I'm thinking out loud,you got a twenty five year old hookie
and you'd have to sit him downbecause he's the third guy in there.
That's that would be awfully tough towait a year on. Pinnis like that.
If you were the number two,that might be another topic, unless
Seattle was willing to move on fromGino Smith and move him in the trade.
But I just I just keep thinkingabout Grub and Huff and Pinnix altogether,
(47:21):
and I just I just can't helpto think that'd be a great comedy,
no question. Well, Lance Zerlinefrom the NFL Network going to be
with us every Wednesday at five o'clock. A little special time today, but
every Wednesday at five courtesy of MossBay Hall, The Queen An Beer Hall's
new venture on the East Side inKirkland, Win eleventh Central Way. Go
check it out. If you're afan of the queen An Beer Hall,
you will love this spot. SoI'm gonna read you some names here,
(47:44):
Lance, Justin, britt Ethan Posk, Austin blythe Evan Brown. The Seahawks
have had four year a lot ofstarting centers, that's right, for the
last six years, and I'm gettingtired of it. I think Seahawks fans
ever since they moved for Jimmy Grahamand gave up Max Hunger, they've had
a hell of a time filling thatspot. What do you make of the
kid from Oregon in Jackson Powers Johnson. I like him. He is a
(48:07):
barrel chest at three hundred and thirtyfour pounder, can play center guard,
which I love. You need tobe able to place two positions if you're
a center. What you'd like forhim to be able to especially if you're
considering that player in the first round. I think that'd be a little early
in the first for him. Tobe honest with you, He's not my
favorite interior lineman. My favorite isGraham Barton At, a duke who played
(48:28):
left tackle at Duke this year outof need. But Graham Barton can play
guard, can play center, canget you out of a game to tackle
if you need. You know,and I know Ethan Pochick Postage was doing
the same thing at LSU, playingmultiple positions. But this Graham Barton is.
You know, my dad was anNFL offensive line coach, and I've
put on some graand Barton because he'sone of my favorite players in the draft.
(48:49):
During Thanksgiving, I brought my tapeup there and we were watching some
or rather not Thanksgiving spring break herejust a couple of weeks ago, and
I put the tape on a grandBarton because I wanted to see what he
thought, because I knew he'd likehim. And boy didn't take long for
him say look at him, youknow, roll his hips up under him,
look at his hands, look athis feet. Well that's a great
job right there with with anchor.He's really does a great job with his
(49:13):
hands in his and his leverage andyou know everything that offensive line coaches wanted
to see, strong hands, bodycontrol. I mean, I think he'd
be a phenomenal pick for to toreally solidify. Like you said, they've
been chasing centers forever, solidify upthe middle, and you know, I
know that. I don't know ifyou know that. Well, obviously you
guys know this. There's like atwo hundred and seventy seven pounds center at
(49:36):
UDB who's now you know to Alabama? Oh yeah, Parker Berelsford. Yeah
sorry, yeah, yeah right,yeah yeah yeah. And I mean that's
that's at landish, a two hundredand seventy seven pounder. But but I
think that Scott Hoff has a reallyunique feel for what kind of players can
do, what kind of things.And I think if you gave the Seahawks
(49:58):
a guy like Graham Barton, whoyou can put center, you can put
a guard, He's an early starter. But I think John Powers Johnson is
an early starter too. I justhappened to like one guy a little better
than the other one. But Iwouldn't take either one of them there.
I think that would be you know, a classic John Snyder trade back and
then take one of those one ofthose two guys if you really wanted to
solidify the middle, which is notsexy but it's also smart. Yeah,
(50:22):
got you, Lance, You're theman. This is gonna be great.
Looking forward to it every Wednesday atfive and plan on five pm. All
right, five pm next Wednesday.All right man, good stuff, you
bet, Lance Zerline. He's gonnabe awesome.
Dave 'Softy' Mahler and Dick Fain News
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