Luke Arkins joins to wrap up another Stove season.

Luke Arkins from the Mariners Consigliere joins Chuck and Anders to talk about the offseason as a whole, go through the roster as of now and our thoughts, and give predictions for the 2025 season!

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Stove.

Speaker 2 (00:02):
What a kind of name is that. Well, it's the
name of a Mariner's off season podcast that's driving, let's
face it, in this new world, hard times out there,
but Stove podcast continues to shine out the truer. It
is Chuck Powell, it is anders Hurst with you here
for our latest episode of Stove, and we have a
special guest. I was just telling our special guest, Andrews.

(00:24):
I'm like, yeah, I think anders and I would like
to do this annually with you, but why only once
a year?

Speaker 3 (00:29):
We should do it more frequently next year, I think,
I think I would love to do that. Yeah, but
I think people kind of look forward to the you know,
season predictions with Luke Harkins sort of segment that we
have here on on Stove. So Luke, thanks for coming in,
really appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (00:48):
Thanks for having me.

Speaker 2 (00:49):
Guys.

Speaker 3 (00:49):
How are you good?

Speaker 1 (00:50):
Yeah? Good, Yeah, looking forward to the season starting. It's
been a kind of interesting off season.

Speaker 3 (00:57):
And when you say interesting, do you mean bad.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
Disappointing, poorly message there you go, oh, yeah, I think
that's really what it is.

Speaker 2 (01:08):
You know, I'm not sure I even care how it's packaged.
It's just when you know, if you're going to show
up to my house for Christmas and for baseball nut
jobs like the three of us, the off season is Christmas.
I mean, we love the regular season, we love the postseason,
but we love the off season just as much. We
will love the stove season just as much. That's why
we do this podcast. You're gonna show up to my

(01:31):
house for Christmas, I'd rather just not give me any
kind of gift rather than just give me a half
eaten zagnut bar.

Speaker 3 (01:38):
Well, I mean, it's kind of what the Bears did.
They didn't give you anything. That's what I'm saying. That's
what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (01:43):
No, you're gonna show up for Christmas bearing gifts, you know,
I'd rather you just just write me a card. Then, Yeah,
if you're not going to get me anything substantial.

Speaker 3 (01:52):
Card that says, you know, you should be happy with
what you have. You know, there's a reality of the
presence that you do have versus you know, the perception
of what you think you should have. Been a bit
of a dud.

Speaker 2 (02:03):
Been a bit of a dud this offseason, no doubt
about it.

Speaker 3 (02:06):
Yeah, it's it's been a little tough. I think the
first thing we should get into though, is that Jeff
pass an article that just came out and it kind
of at when we wrapped up last week's episode, we
kind of thought, okay, so this is our team, right,
and there was kind of a realization that this is
probably the team we have going into spring training. But
it seems like the Mariners are still trying to make

(02:28):
at least one more move pass and of course from
ESPN reporting that they're looking for a pitcher for hitter deal. So,
as we mentioned last week, the contact that I had
that's a current MLB scout was saying that they are
trying to move Castile and they're trying to get a
hitter in return. So it seems like that's kind of
the move that is in the works. I don't know

(02:50):
if something will happen. What are your thoughts? Who do
you want to get in return? Is there something? Is
there kind of a desperation that you're kind of afraid
to do this at this point in the seat or
the off seat reason, I should say, so, I don't know, Luke,
what do you think?

Speaker 1 (03:02):
Well, I never want to trade a starting pitcher, but
if they're going to trade a starting pitcher, they need
a second basement. I mean the Dylan Moore Ryan Bliss.
That's that's not going to work, right, It's just not
going to work. Yeah, I mean.

Speaker 2 (03:20):
They think Dylan Moore works on a team. It's just
as a special as a super util almost, but it
set a special teams player. Super is still in football
mode super utility player. I think he's a very good one,
but he's shown with given every day at bats, he's
just not good enough.

Speaker 1 (03:37):
He's not good in the ballpark. Yes, he's not good
against right handed pitching. So that's a lot of the
season right there. So to be a starter or they've
already tried this. It was it twenty twenty. They tried this. Yeah,
it doesn't work. He's a he's a Swiss Army knife
an asset. Yeah, but you know, a good guy that
can play multiple positions, athletic, he can run. But to

(04:00):
be a starting position player on this team in this ballpark,
it just doesn't work.

Speaker 2 (04:07):
Well. See this This is what this is why I
can't even buy the Castillo move at this point. I
mean I put him in my crystal Ball predictions to
move him. But the idea was you move him, you
get pieces back and you also free up money to
allow you to make more moves, but for what at

(04:29):
this stage, for what? Yeah, I mean all the free
the free agent pool has dried up. The only thing
that's left out there is Alex Bregman, and they're not
going to spend that kind of money, So you can't
get either of the Kims, and so you if you
make the move, now it's almost got to be for
a player of similar salary or lower, which maybe they

(04:51):
want to do in order to get you your offensive piece,
but now you don't have the time to go get
any backup pitching help. So they've just waited too long
in the process. To me, the advantage of doing that
was Okay, let's just say in theory you trade for
Tristan Cassis. Well, now you have Tristan Cossas at first base,

(05:12):
Hancock moves into the starting rotation. But you also have
twenty two million dollars to spend that you just freed
up on top of what you already had in the
off season. But you've almost spent all of that that
you claimed that you had. And now if you traded
Castillo for a bat, is it going to be a
controllable player? Is there going to be some young piece

(05:35):
that's unproven, Luke mentioned off the air, like a Spencer Torklsen. No,
I'm not interested in trading a surefire All Star caliber
pitcher for an uncertainty. It's got to be a sure
thing at this stage, and you won't even have the
benefit of going to spend what you might have saved
by getting rid of his contract. So to me, it's

(05:56):
too late. I mean, I'd rather just go into the
season with your five All Star star and hope that
the offense is just better than it was a year ago.
As long as that's a little bit better, you should
make the playoffs. Yeah, and that seems to be what
they're banking on.

Speaker 3 (06:11):
Yeah, And all the projections say that there's going to
be a lot of bounce back years from Mariners offense
this year, so hopefully that does come to fruition. But Luke,
I want to get your thoughts because I know I've
mentioned this to Chuck so many times, but I'm pretty
bullish on Luis Castillo. I think he's going to have
I mean, I don't even want to say bounce back
year because he's still pretty dang good last year. I
still think if you were in a playoff series right now,
he would be your Game one starter. I think he's

(06:33):
still an ACE type of pitcher. Maybe not as high
of an ace as I expected him to be, but
I still think he has the stuff. Is he someone
that you expect going into this year to be that
top pitcher that the Mariners have.

Speaker 1 (06:50):
I'm not sure he'll be the best pitcher on the
Mariners this year, but he's certainly a guy you want
in your rotation, and certainly if the teams are interested
in him, that tells you how valuable he is.

Speaker 3 (07:00):
Yeah, I'm kind of with you on that. I just
it's I go back and forth thinking about you know
what Chuck said about you know, having the money to
spend versus if you trade one of the other guys,
say a Brian wu or a Bryce Miller, then you
then you get more in return because of the less
money you're giving up, it's more valuable to other teams.
So at this point the season, if you're going or

(07:23):
the off season, if you're going to do that, if
you're going to trade a starting pitcher, still that's the
move I would look to do, because then you know
you're getting someone back in return of value.

Speaker 2 (07:32):
Well, you know, again we're going off of a headline, right,
I've not read this passing story, but all right, if
you're we're assuming it's Castille because that's been the rain.
So if you were to move him, and Luke just
said you have second base need, is that something where
if Bregman goes to the Cubs, then suddenly a Nico

(07:54):
Horner's available twelve million there.

Speaker 3 (07:58):
I think they'd have to throw in more than Horner probably,
but at.

Speaker 2 (08:01):
Least you're getting a starting second baseman that we don't
have to worry about. I mean, he puts the ball,
employee runs the base as well, gritty goal glove caliber infielder.
So something built around I don't want Castile for Horner,
but something built around that. Is that interest you at all?
It would if you made me trade a starting pitcher.

Speaker 3 (08:22):
Yes, yeah, he's really going to be against that. No,
I totally respect because I think that's the part of
the team that is important that you got to keep together.
So it's going to be really interesting to see. Luke.
I also want to get your thoughts because Chuck and
I have thought about this a lot throughout our off

(08:42):
season together this year. The lack of prospects moved. Is
that just part of the market. I want to know
what your thoughts are on that, because it seems like
that would have been an obvious option for the Mariners
to go, since you have what a lot of people
think is the best farm system in baseball and you're
in a window right now. It seems like that would
be something if you don't want to give up someone

(09:03):
that's a contributor to your team right now, you could
get someone in return for prospects being moved. But it
doesn't seem like there's a big market for that at
this point.

Speaker 1 (09:10):
I don't think there is if you look back. They
traded the prospects for Castillo, right, they traded prospects for
Winker and Suarez, so they're not averse to doing that.
But who would you trade with? Rhetorical, who would you
trade with to get an established back back from Well?

Speaker 2 (09:34):
I do believe that, and I actually love it for
the sport. A few years ago, a lot of teams
realized we're not doing it the right way. They were
watching the Cubs win a World Series and the Astros,
you know, become dominant, and even the Yankees for a year.
If people remember, they were rebuilding and then they stumbled

(09:57):
upon this guy named Aaron Judge and they realized, oh,
we don't have to rebuild anymore. They were for them,
They were rebuilding that year, and so everybody at the
same time decided to wise up, and those paths that
they took have led us here. There aren't a lot
of teams that aren't trying to win this year, which

(10:20):
I think is great for the sport. But if they're
not looking to the Marlins have already bottomed out right,
they're rebuilding. They don't have anything left to trade.

Speaker 3 (10:29):
You know, there are a.

Speaker 2 (10:30):
Couple of other teams that the Rockies fall into that cat.
The Rockies won't trade anybody White Sox. White Sox have
already moved all their pieces except for Robert and now
they're acting because his market's not that great, like they
don't want to move them. So from that standpoint, there's
not a lot.

Speaker 3 (10:49):
But there were.

Speaker 2 (10:50):
People like Josh Naylor from the Cleveland Guardians obviously could
have been had for a prospect and it didn't have
to be one of your best ones. But yes, I agree,
I agree with that sentiment that there wasn't a great
robust market for moving prospects. But if you're not going
to spend, then how else are you supposed to acquire

(11:14):
talent that you so desperately need. I mean, this was
a bad offensive team a year ago. I don't care
how Jerry Depoto tries to polish a turd. This was
a bad offensive team a year ago. And your answer
this offseason because you won't won't trade the prospect because
you're not getting the right trade packages, and you won't
sign free agents because you don't have any money to spend.

(11:36):
Your answer is the guys we got last year are
going to bounce back. This entire year is based off
of this entire offseason. Whether Mitch Garver and Jorge Polanco
were who they thought they were.

Speaker 3 (11:48):
That's it.

Speaker 1 (11:50):
Yeah, And I'm not sure about Garver. He's a pretty
big pull hitter, and poll hitters don't seem right handed.
Pull hitters don't seem to do well a Tea Mobile park.
It's got to be better than last year, though, I
would hope. So his strikeout rate at home is it's obscene.
It's thirty five percent or something like that. He's like

(12:12):
twenty five percent or something like that on the road, Polanco.
He wasn't awful on the road, he was below average,
he was awful at home, And so I guess the
hope is he'll be better on the road, improved at home,
and maybe that overall looks closer to average. And if

(12:34):
he was an average offensive player, that would be an
upgrade at third base.

Speaker 2 (12:39):
Yeah, yeah, I.

Speaker 1 (12:40):
Mean that's where they were last year. If you get
an average player, a league average player, that's an upgrade
at several second base, third base, shortstop, first base, the
hole infield.

Speaker 2 (12:52):
Ye're counting it on and across the board and to
there if we can just take like two seconds to
defend them a little bits. The playoffs by a game,
So it's not like they need a lot of improvement.
What really worries me, though, is where's your depth? I mean,
you already have a lineup that we're questioning two or

(13:14):
three spots in the lineup. What happens if one of
the main guys go down your count? You're putting your
saying to the entire world, our starting pitching can repeat
what they did.

Speaker 3 (13:24):
A year ago.

Speaker 2 (13:25):
What if one of those guys goes down you know,
you know, and then getting back to our original topic,
but if you've traded somebody.

Speaker 3 (13:35):
From your starting pitching, especially for like a not sure
things yes yeh, for a potential not sure thing, and
then you then lose a pitcher, which happens a lot
in the sport, then we're so just the entire like
patchwork off season. I mean, it can work, but it

(13:57):
just feels like the worst effort toward fixing what ailed
you that we've seen from this organization since Jerry took
me well. I wonder if part of that is like
the fact that they tried to do that the last
two years, but they've gotten worse in the process of
doing that the last two years, So maybe there's a
little gun shyness. I know that most people thought after

(14:18):
the twenty twenty two season the ta Oscar Hernandez wasn't
upgrade on Mitcheniger, which I think he was. He wasn't
upgrade on Mitchenniger. But you didn't really do much other
than that besides Culton Wong, you know, Adam Fraser, Colton Wong.

Speaker 2 (14:31):
I was fine with that off season.

Speaker 1 (14:32):
Yeah, I was fine with both guys. I thought each
guy would be better than the guy before fo. Yeah,
and they weren't. They were worse.

Speaker 3 (14:40):
Yeah they were.

Speaker 1 (14:40):
Yeah, I mean Coulton Wang isn't he is even in
baseball anymore?

Speaker 3 (14:44):
We No, he's not.

Speaker 1 (14:45):
Yeah, Yeah, that's amazing.

Speaker 3 (14:46):
That was the end of his career.

Speaker 2 (14:47):
Look, this is the first off season I've hated since
the rebuild began. This is the first one so and
I know they didn't all work out. As a matter
of fact, last year's was crash and burn, right, But
I can't I'd be lying if I said I wasn't
okay with it when the season started last year. This
is the first one in Luke where I'm like, I
can't stand it. I can't believe you did so little

(15:10):
when you had such an obvious.

Speaker 3 (15:12):
Hole in your game.

Speaker 2 (15:13):
And I'm not talking about second base, I'm talking about offense.

Speaker 3 (15:18):
I'm talking about half the sport.

Speaker 2 (15:20):
And that was a weakness and that's how little you
did do try and improve it.

Speaker 1 (15:26):
Right, they're always gonna as Mike Petriello pointed out, so well,
they're never gonna hit as well at home as they
are gonna hit on the road. But you have to
be average or better on the road, and they weren't.
And they were not top ten offense. They just were
not no, and really, if it weren't for September, they
would have looked a lot worse. Oh yeah, it's the

(15:49):
numbers are ridiculous. How much better they were. They're like
fourth I think in runs scored at home and on
the road in the thirty four games Dan Wilson was
your manager, and that's just not going to happen now.
If we're scoring like six I think six runs a
game average or something like that, that's not happening this year.

Speaker 3 (16:11):
Yeah, and that's I think that's another part of why
the offseason maybe is what it was. Is they expect
that this new coaching staff that came in at the
end of last year that that's going to carry over,
and I just don't know if it is at this point.
You know, I'm as bullish on Edgar and kind of
simplifying the game to a lot of the the hitters,
and it seems like it worked the end of last year.

(16:33):
I just don't know if that's going to have the
same effect this year for an entire season.

Speaker 2 (16:36):
Well maybe not to six runs a game, but right again,
you're talking about just improving a little bit, right as
long as you're pitching is as good as we think
it is.

Speaker 3 (16:47):
They it will be something.

Speaker 2 (16:49):
I give Jerry credit for this offseason because I think
he's very proud of everything that he does will fall right.
And so this was him admitting maybe I don't know
as much as I think I know, and stepping back
from a problem that he was bullish about and handing
it over. I mean, he's basically handing over the offensive

(17:11):
strategy to Edgar and to Kevin Seitzer, and that's got
to be an improvement. How much we get it remains
to be seen. They still have to get off to
a good start, which is something that has eluded them
every year that I can remember, ever since back in
the Domingo Santana we started the season in Japan days.

Speaker 1 (17:31):
Yeah, twenty nineteen, they got off to a great start
and then they crashed and burned.

Speaker 2 (17:36):
Yeah, well it's been rough going offensively.

Speaker 3 (17:40):
You know.

Speaker 2 (17:40):
One thing that we didn't cover though in the lead
store was the the possibility of trading not Luis Castillo,
you know, could you trade all right? Now, we're not
looking for a team that's selling right in a market
that's all but dried up.

Speaker 3 (17:59):
What if we're aiding one of the young guys, Bry Miller.

Speaker 1 (18:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (18:03):
Yeah, And now we're going to teams like Baltimore to say,
we have a surplus of this, you have a surplus
of that, you have a I have a roller skate,
you have the key kind of thing. And and maybe
it's a Bryce Miller for Jordan Westburgh.

Speaker 3 (18:24):
Kind of move. I know what Luke's going to say.
I don't like trading started pitching, but something like that.
I mean the article.

Speaker 2 (18:32):
I didn't read the article, but it doesn't say still
looking to move Castilla. It is still looking to move
a starter for a proven hitter.

Speaker 1 (18:43):
Right, Okay, so let's make believe that. I think it's
a good idea to trade starting. So if this is
a podcast, just say no, no, no, we do that, right.
I won't be back again. If I were the Orioles,
I would lean towards Miller because he has already demonstrated
he can give you innings. But I think WU could

(19:04):
be better than all of that. I agree, it's just
a question about his durability, and maybe he will quash
that this year and he will take the next step
and in a year from now we'll be thinking, Wow,
this guy is a future cy Young.

Speaker 3 (19:17):
A lot George Kirby from a couple of years ago.

Speaker 1 (19:19):
Right, right, So we'll just have to wait and see.
I mean, George Kirby had some health issues in the
miners and he hasn't had an issue yet, fingers crossed,
so hopefully that continues.

Speaker 3 (19:29):
Kirby's the one Baltimore loves.

Speaker 2 (19:31):
Yeah, I mean, Jim Palmer practically, you know, dys robes
on the air every time we take on the Orioles,
you know, talking about how much he loves George Kirby.
And he's got some sway by the way there, right,
and he's Yeah, Kirby is amazing. How he he doesn't
walk anybody, His command isn't is impressive. He does have

(19:53):
a hard time putting guys away with two strikes because
it seems like everybody knows he's going to come into
the strike zone. Lots of foul balls.

Speaker 3 (20:01):
A little stubborn, it seems like he doesn't want to
not throw strikes, right.

Speaker 1 (20:05):
I don't whether it's stubbornness or just not being able
to master that part of the game. I don't know
what it is, but certainly he's a guy that certainly
would interest teams. But of course Wu and Miller are
pre arb guys. They're going to be cheaper, So certainly
a team like the Orioles might be interested in that,

(20:27):
especially if you're going to get a guy back who's
pre arball.

Speaker 3 (20:30):
Right well, And that's the truth of it.

Speaker 2 (20:32):
I mean, we make these deals and because we are
been exposed to Kirby and Gilbert longer, and because they
were more hyped, you know, more so than Wu and Miller.
Wu kind of was a sneak attack on our lives.
Miller had the big off season where he'd gained velocity
and was the talk of camp a few years ago.

(20:54):
Kirby and Gilbert were first round picks, and we're supposed
to deliver the goods. But I would think Castillo is
the most likely to be dealt because of the salary.
But then I think a Gilbert and Kirby are more
likely to be moved to than Wu or Miller. You know,
everybody goes to Woo or Miller. But the truth of

(21:16):
the matter is this is a cheap organization and they're
already thinking about who they're going to be able to
keep financially going forward. We're not keeping all four of
these young pitchers. We're probably going to keep two of them,
and so Gilbert becomes a money issue sooner than any
of them, and then Kirby is second in line.

Speaker 3 (21:37):
So if they.

Speaker 2 (21:38):
Were to move a younger guy, I think it's more
likely a Gilbert or a Kirby. But I also think
you're going to get the most back for a Gilbert
or a Kirby, if you want to think of it
in those terms. You trade a Kirby to Baltimore, then
it's probably Westburg and what else.

Speaker 3 (21:53):
Are you going to give us?

Speaker 2 (21:54):
Yeah, if it's Wou or Miller, you're probably getting Westburg back.
So again, I said the entire offseason, unlike Luke Arkins
that I would move a starting pitcher because I don't
trust that they're going to find offense in any other way.
And they have it, they haven't found it in free agency,

(22:16):
and it's not ready to come up from the farm
system yet. So I think you're going to have to
trade from your strength in order to satisfy your weakness.
But Castillo was the original thought because of what the
financial gain would be after that. But I don't think
anything makes sense anymore because the market is dried up

(22:38):
and there's no way to even lengthen your starting rotation,
should you move somebody at this point. So my idea
of moving a starting pitcher was to create this move
avalanches into this move, which avalanches into this move.

Speaker 3 (22:54):
If you make a move right now, it's a picture
for hitter and I don't now. Oh, I really don't.

Speaker 2 (23:00):
Want to get rid of my five man, awesome rotation,
which is the spine of my body. You know. So
you know, I think they missed the train on trying
to move a starting pitcher. Frankly, I'm not doing it
at this point.

Speaker 3 (23:13):
I'm kind of with you on that. And Luke, never
apologize for not wanting to trade a starting pitcher. It's
totally cool. We will always have you back, don't worry, But.

Speaker 2 (23:22):
You can apologize for some others general attitude.

Speaker 1 (23:30):
Overall, hygiene, footwear.

Speaker 3 (23:36):
I thought of an exercise that we could do here.
What move would each of you that was done by
another team this offseason, whether it was a trade that
you could throw something similar for or a free agents signing,
would you have preferred the Mariners to do the most?
I have one in mind. I know Chuck has one

(23:57):
in mind. I think as well, that was a no brainer.
But I want to get your thoughts first, luk Oh boy,
give him an example. So mine would be pretty simple.
The three year, forty two million dollar deal for Jrixson Profar.
That's a twelve million dollars salary, then goes up to
fifteen next year. But that's something that they have the

(24:19):
money for. And that's someone who can play second Well
you had supposedly they have fifteen million dollars left. I
don't know where that's going. See you you.

Speaker 2 (24:29):
Unless he's DH or left field, I guess you play
left field and comput a rose A Reno could play
second base. He hasn't played second base in like five years. Yeah,
it's like Solano. It's like people trying to say Donovan Slon.

Speaker 3 (24:40):
This is more of a realistic Solano.

Speaker 2 (24:43):
Well, he's more athletic, but he's actually further away from
having played second base than he than Solano is.

Speaker 3 (24:49):
Solano did it a couple of years ago.

Speaker 2 (24:51):
I mean, yeah, I suppose you could get him to
spring training, throw him out there with Perry Hill and
see if he's still got something left. But he wasn't
even good then defensively, Luke, and he's four or five
years removed from being that guy.

Speaker 1 (25:06):
I don't see that working.

Speaker 2 (25:07):
But it's unlocked his hitting, Like now that he doesn't
have to worry about fielding and booting balls at second base,
he's become a really good switch hitting left fielder.

Speaker 1 (25:16):
And he hit it in a pitcher's park last year
with San Diego, which is not significantly better than T
Mobile Park, better but not significantly better.

Speaker 2 (25:24):
I would have taken it because I'll make it work
just to get a hitter H into the equation.

Speaker 3 (25:31):
And even if he is DH, like you know, and
so yes, if he's.

Speaker 2 (25:35):
The d H er left field, and I can put
I mean a Rosarine is a hack defensively, and I'll put.

Speaker 3 (25:41):
Him at DH.

Speaker 2 (25:42):
I mean, there's a way to do it. But it's
certainly not going to be like the one that I envy.
I mean mine was Naylor, which we've already to discussed.

Speaker 3 (25:51):
And that that was gonna be a my other suggest
and I don't.

Speaker 2 (25:53):
Love Josh Naylor, but I'm trying to figure out what
my restrictions are. I'm always trying to figure that out
with the Mariners, and we know what they are finances
and and we don't like to trade our top prospects. Understandable,
but you could have gotten Josh Naylor for a draft pick,
for the right draft pick basically, and yeah, you only

(26:15):
get him for one year. But give me Josh Naylor
in this lineup, even with his terrible body. And I'm
you know, he didn't have great You probably know the
numbers better than I would, Luke, he didn't have phenomenal
like overall numbers, but he is somebody that has hitting
the pitcher's part. Produced can hit for some power, and

(26:37):
I can put him at DHU even if I don't,
or at first base and I.

Speaker 3 (26:42):
Can definitely hit him fourth on Opening Day and feel
good about it.

Speaker 1 (26:45):
Yeah, and I think Naylor's body was probably part of
what went into it. But you would have to assume
a guy in his walk ear is going to show
up in the best shape of his life, rue.

Speaker 2 (26:56):
And you're not committing to him long term. You're going
to commit to him for one year and you give
the requisite amount of trade capital and return for a
guy who's not great but good improves you, and you
get him for one.

Speaker 3 (27:11):
Year to improve the team so you can win. Now,
what's wrong with that?

Speaker 1 (27:14):
Right? I guess if I if I had to pick
a deal, it would be the Christian Walker deal because
he may age we'll see at thirty four act like that.

Speaker 3 (27:24):
Better than mine.

Speaker 1 (27:25):
Yeah, but he's he's he's going to be a good
defender throughout the whole thing. Yeah, and so if he
continues to be a decent hitter, you know, averages at
home and above average on the road, good defense, which
I think is important when you look around the infield,
who's the good defender in the infield?

Speaker 3 (27:43):
J I guess the least important to have a good
defender at first base though, out of all those positions.

Speaker 1 (27:49):
Somebody has to catch all those bad throws. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right, somebody,
somebody would a little bit of range.

Speaker 3 (27:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (27:55):
We don't really know who's playing second base yet, but
Walker would have been my guy. I don't know that
they could fit that screen, and I think they probably
would have had to pay a little bit more than
Houston did, just because they have to pay that.

Speaker 2 (28:06):
Pacific Northwest were they offering, because we heard the story
that they were interested in him, and then he signs
for far less than I thought he was going to
sign for. So it feels like they were in the
Christian Walker market. They saw what we saw that could
be something that helps this team. But what did they
offer him, like, you know, nineteen ninety five an hour

(28:29):
and dental you know what.

Speaker 1 (28:31):
Maybe it wasn't the years. Maybe they offered him two
years with a vesting or something like that for a
third year or something like that. Maybe.

Speaker 3 (28:39):
Yeah, I would have taken Christian Walker. Yeah for sure,
I like that. Yeah, A lot of people didn't.

Speaker 2 (28:43):
Want him because we're gun shy of anybody with a
three at the beginning of their age here in this town.

Speaker 1 (28:50):
Was he played in a hitters park, right in an
indoor there's you know, I mean, there's some reasons to
not like him, but.

Speaker 3 (28:56):
He's a ballplayer.

Speaker 2 (28:58):
And and by the way, even though he's six years
old older than Naylor, he's in far better shape and
probably has greater longevity, to tell.

Speaker 1 (29:04):
You the truth, right, and again his defense probably will
age well, yeah, even if his bat starts to show
a little bit of decline.

Speaker 3 (29:12):
The other one I was looking at was the Hasan
Kim to the Rays. I know he's injured, we talked
about that before, but I just think I've heard a
lot of good things about him. I know, he probably
wouldn't have been ready for opening day, maybe not even
like the month end of the season. But I still
think we mentioned that hole at second base and for
what like, was it three years twenty nine million or
something like.

Speaker 2 (29:30):
That, two years twenty seven? Oh, okay, but I was
surprised that it was that much.

Speaker 3 (29:37):
Really no, And I was surprised that the.

Speaker 2 (29:40):
Rays were the ones well because you have to wait
for him, yeah, you know, And so I bet they
were in on it, but they obviously set their marker
at what they felt everybody was worth, and that's as
far as they were going to go. Yeah, and that's
a dangerous game to play. I mean, I think that

(30:01):
your job as an executive is to understand the market.

Speaker 3 (30:05):
Before it even starts.

Speaker 2 (30:07):
And if you get caught off guard by both the
trade market and the free agent market and what the
value is out there, you're not doing your job. You
fell asleep at the wheel. And it feels to me
that's why we've ended up in this position. This is
why we're sitting here on the eve of spring training
getting underway and we have Donovan Solano to show for
our off season. I think they totally got caught off

(30:28):
guard and just we're not willing to pay market value,
either in trade or in free agency dollars.

Speaker 1 (30:35):
It didn't seem particularly nimble. I like the Solano deal
as a top he raised, He raised the floor of
the bench. Right, Yeah, that's the kind of deal they
should have been making the last two or three years,
where they're sort of just kind of bargain bin guys
for the bench. And as you alluded to earlier, with depth,

(30:56):
you're not going to have a starting level guy on
the bench typically, but at least somebody who can cover
a position for say three weeks, if somebody's on the
il or something like that. I do wonder, you know,
you think about Scott Boris and all the criticism he's
received with how he's handled some of his players, and

(31:17):
a criticism is that he hasn't adjusted to the market,
the changing landscape of the marketplace. It's possible that's what
we're seeing with the Mariners too, is they're not adjusting
to how things have changed. There's less interest in players
over thirty. Take Pee Alonzo. I'm very familiar with Pee
Alonso been a met fan my whole life.

Speaker 3 (31:39):
Would you have wanted them here?

Speaker 1 (31:41):
Short term? Sure? He could hit in this party's no
doubt short term deal, right, And I think that deal
he signed, probably would only sign with the Mets. I
mean he should have signed with the Mets and stayed
with the Mets. Certain guys should just stay with their
team because he is more valuable in New York than
anywhere else. The only reason. If he is a first
basement for the Royals and was a free agent, you

(32:02):
wouldn't hear anything about Pete Alonso. He just wouldn't be
because he's from He's playing for a New York team.
It's a big deal. But like a guy like that,
he kind of reminds me of cal Raley. You're coming
up on age thirty, you're hitting free agency, and your
agent is wanting a six or seven year deal. Those
deals really aren't happening anymore, and they're certainly they're rare when

(32:23):
they do happen. And for a slugger who is aging,
who is not a good defender, who is showing some
regression in strikeouts and power, that's not a good thing.
But again, back to Boris, it seems like Matt Chapman's
another guy. Bregman's out there just dangling. And now maybe

(32:45):
Bregman ends up with the deal he wants. Maybe, but
there's a chance he's going to end up on a
similar deal with the Astros that that Alonso got, where
you're you're back with the team you started with and
you're taking the only the only team you would signed
that deal with because you want to stay there at
least short term, with an opportunity to jump out. But

(33:06):
maybe that's the same thing with the with the Mariners.
You know, Jerry Depoto, maybe he hasn't adjusted to the way
things are. You know, you were talking about how teams
are getting away from hanging on in prospects and all that.
Maybe he just hasn't adjusted to that.

Speaker 2 (33:23):
Well, I mean, you put your script together and we
do it for the team, and obviously they do it
for the team. And I wouldn't have put Pete Alonzo
as my piece that I wanted to get in the
off season. But by the time you got to the
end of the off season and he's still available and
you hadn't done anything, you got to rethink your goals

(33:45):
for the off season. And you're right, he probably wouldn't
have signed here for the short term deal that he
signed with the New York Mets. I don't know what
Alex Bregman is looking for. Yeah, but I'd certainly adjust
what I was thinking, because that guy solves a lot. Polanco, sorry,
you're moving back to second you know, or Bregman. There's
been talking about Bregman moving to second base. So I

(34:09):
would rethink, you know, if you know, based on what
the market is allowing right now. But I don't think
we're going to end up with anything. I just I
just think that they had an idea what a Christian
walker was worth, and champion teams in championship windows historically,
Jim Bowden said it on our airwaves, that's the time

(34:30):
where you got to go for it, and you've got
to make yourself a little uncomfortable, and you might have
to give up the prospect that you you like.

Speaker 3 (34:39):
You really like him. Boy, you're really.

Speaker 2 (34:41):
Proud you drafted that guy. But you can't love them
all and you can't just keep the south the payroll
at this certain volume. If you got to go a
little higher, you got to go a little higher, because
these winsdows to have pitching like this, controllable pitch like this,
They just don't come around. And now they have this opportunity.

(35:03):
They missed the playoffs for the third time. They've got
to be fired. People got to be fired for that.
If you're in a championship window and you've missed the
playoffs by a game or two three years in a row,
how do you keep your job? And now all those
things that you've stopped, stop pressuring ownership for more money.
Wouldn't trade any of your prospects? Now, would you have

(35:24):
done it?

Speaker 1 (35:26):
Well? I mean to be fair, we don't know that
they're not pressuring. We don't know that. And again, if
you look at them, they have signed some They sign
Kakuchi in twenty nineteen, they extended Jean Sigura, they extended Castillo,
they traded for him and extended for him. They extended

(35:49):
Felix and Felix Julio. So they have an NJP Crawford.
So they have done some things, but it seems like
that's all stopped. Yeah, everything's come to a dead haul.
Those sort of views, right, just as you're entering that
window of an opportunity to truly compete. And I don't
think the Mariners will ever under Jerry Depoto sign the

(36:13):
big the big guy, right, And that's okay. I'm not
necessarily against that as long as you're signing other guys
to three and four year deals that make your team better.
You know, look at the Mets. You go back a
couple of years, they signed Stolling Marte I think a
three or four year deal, you know, and you realize,
like the last year of that contract and it's turned

(36:34):
out that way. Well, no, they have him still, but
he's he's sort of he's not very useful anymore. But
he was up front, and that's what they wanted. They
wanted a guy to come in and be valuable upfront
four years or whatever. Yeah, and on a larger scale,
you look at Robinson Cano when I think when he
signed thirty thirty one years old, you knew at the
end of that contract he was not going to be

(36:56):
any good. But they had the first five years and
if he could, if you could get to the World
Series and win the World Series in the first five years,
nobody would care about the final five years.

Speaker 3 (37:05):
True, right, But.

Speaker 1 (37:07):
They didn't do anymore really after they signed Cruise and
that was it. They stopped. There was no more addition. Uh.
And of course that's the old ownership, which is sort
of the new ownership group. I mean, they just kind
of changed shares in the boarder.

Speaker 2 (37:19):
They thought they had the pitching to match it, and
then Paxton was ended up not being as good as
they thought it was going to be or healthy, and
Walker ended up not. Those two guys are supposed to
be studs.

Speaker 3 (37:31):
And they weren't, you know, to go with uh it Kuma.

Speaker 2 (37:38):
And Felix, and so they thought that those two guys
were going to be special.

Speaker 3 (37:42):
And they weren't.

Speaker 2 (37:43):
And now all of a sudden, you got an old
baseball team, and you you got everything you could have
out of Nelson Cruz and then you got somehow out
from underneath Robinson Cano, which is still counts as one
of the seven miracles in world history.

Speaker 3 (38:00):
Yeah, getting a prospect out of it.

Speaker 2 (38:02):
Yeah, yeah, Well, you know what I mean, This is
a little bit of a spring training preview, and I
know you want to get to predictions, but I think
we kind of if we can just quickly go through
what we have, what we have on this roster. So
let's get to start first base. How you feel about
what I'm assuming is going to be Raleigh and Solano

(38:23):
Luke at first base platooning.

Speaker 1 (38:26):
I'm okay with that. Actually, I'm okay with that. I
would like to think that Ley will be a better
defender if he spends more time at first base. I
don't think he'll be worse than Ty France, and he
should be a better hitter, so that's a win to me.
I'm okay with that.

Speaker 3 (38:43):
My France so available, don't free agent, by the way,
and I don't see where else Solano plays.

Speaker 2 (38:49):
Maybe a little bit of third base, but I think
he's DH pinch hitter, and then he's your short side
platoon at first with Rayley, and I think he'll hold
his own there. I'd feel fine about it. If second
base was solid, I'd.

Speaker 3 (39:03):
Feel okay about that.

Speaker 2 (39:05):
But I now I've I got second base not being solid,
I got DH being a huge question mark. So I mean,
give me a first baseman if they're still in the
Tristan Cossus, and then I'll figure out how to get
Rayley and Solano at bats. That's that's what I would prefer.
But if we didn't have the other two holes.

Speaker 3 (39:28):
I'd feel okay about first base. Yeah, I have real
questions about Solano. It seems like kind of fall and
play gap to gap hitters do not work well at
T Mobile Park. He doesn't have a lot of power,
he can't run he's I don't know about his fielding
as well as he's six year old. Is so I
just think of all the positions, first base. I don't

(39:48):
want to say it's the easiest, but is there's the
most out there in order to get a dude that
really helps your lineup and maybe you take a little
back from the defense. But if you get someone offensively
in that position, that really really helps you out. I
think that covers a lot of other holes. I be
more fine with sticking what we have at second base
right now and then really getting a true first baseman
than you know, sticking with what we have at first

(40:09):
base and then getting a true second basement personally, But to.

Speaker 2 (40:12):
Luke's point, I feel more worried about second base than
I do first base right now, going end of the year,
right now, Yes, More or Bliss? Who do you want
to see when the job? Oh fair enough?

Speaker 1 (40:28):
No, either either either. I would have to pick More
if I was forced, I would pick More just because
he has a history of playing in the leagues. Maybe
Bliss has more upside.

Speaker 3 (40:38):
I seed him.

Speaker 2 (40:38):
Take Bliss because I just think More's the asset. Special
I guess I did it again. Special teams we're going
to call the special teams for the rest.

Speaker 3 (40:47):
Of the podcast.

Speaker 2 (40:48):
He's more of the asset and special teams. Great kicker,
great punter, and and so I'm going to run Bliss
out there and see what I can get out of him.

Speaker 3 (40:59):
But I it's not gonna work. He can't hit a fastball.
How can you hit it?

Speaker 2 (41:04):
How can you play in the major league level and
not be able to hit a fastball? Good kid, great kid,
And he's got some pop, and he's got tremendous speed,
and he's a better defender than I thought he was
going to be. But until you can figure out how
to hit a fastball above your waist at the major
league level, you can't play.

Speaker 1 (41:21):
And maybe he'll adjust, Maybe maybe he'll adjust. He's still
can right, and maybe he'll adjust. I mean, we'll see
about that. He's certainly athletic, can run the bases, can field,
and play a couple of positions.

Speaker 3 (41:33):
Bring some energy to the team for sure, right Yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:35):
Yeah, especially if he wanted to be this fast team
that's gonna run a lot.

Speaker 3 (41:39):
But yeah, thank you. And he thought that Cole Young
actually wins the job.

Speaker 1 (41:47):
Boy, I don't know. I guess it's possible. There's nothing great, right,
there's nothing better, nothing standing in his way, right, and
you give him a chance and worst case, you send
him back down to Tacoma.

Speaker 3 (42:00):
I just I just think even if he does, if
even if he is the best player in Bring training
at second base, I would rather him, at least for
the first few months this season, kind of really polish
that up at the Triple A level and then come
up mid season May June and then be ready to go.

Speaker 2 (42:16):
It's as if we should have gotten a second base yeah,
you think, but.

Speaker 1 (42:20):
He still would be better than what they were getting
from second base at the beginning of last year, even
if he struggled. Yeah, and this year that's depressing, but true.

Speaker 2 (42:29):
Short stop, how do you feel about Jp Anders?

Speaker 3 (42:32):
I think Jp is going to have bounced back year.
I think it's been kind of well documented that, you know,
the the hitting philosophy going into last year was not
the best for him, and if we kind of stick
to a more line drive approach with him. I'm not
an expert on hitting philosophies and stuff, so I'm not
going to go into the weeds on that. I just think,
you know, him getting back to what he did best

(42:53):
in twenty twenty three is going to be good. And
I see that happening for JP.

Speaker 2 (42:56):
I can't even understand it. I can't even understand what
we were watching last year. Two have had a career
year and just consistently at bad after it that it
was good two years ago, two years agay.

Speaker 3 (43:12):
And you know, and you and you.

Speaker 2 (43:14):
Got to show off a little bit of power last
year and then to come back the very next year,
and it's like, you want to build off of what
you did.

Speaker 3 (43:23):
The previous year.

Speaker 2 (43:24):
No, I want to hit forty homers, but you weigh.

Speaker 3 (43:28):
One seventy five. Now.

Speaker 2 (43:31):
I don't know what happened to him. I don't know
what scrambled his brain. And now it sounds like he's
put on weight, which suggests to me that he wants
to be a power hitter. And it's like, dude, you
were so valuable two years ago, and believe it or not,
on that team, you're the guy I wanted to see
come to the plate, and then last year you were

(43:54):
the last guy I wanted to see to come to
the plate.

Speaker 3 (43:57):
Right, more so than Garver.

Speaker 1 (43:59):
And as much credit as we've given to Edgar, it
certainly didn't work on JP, No, it didn't, right, and well,
I think he.

Speaker 3 (44:07):
Was lost by that point, right, and know what to do.

Speaker 1 (44:09):
If he was what he was in twenty twenty one,
twenty two, I would take that. Yeah, not really no power,
but an on base guy, Yep, that's fine with me.
Doesn't strike out a lot, takes his walks. I mean,
he's not a fast base runner. It's fine, but that's acceptable.

Speaker 3 (44:26):
I agree. What do you think about his defense? I
think there's a lot of like, there's a lot of
people that hate his defense. I think eye tests wise,
he looks fine. Maybe his range isn't great, maybe his
arm's not great, but it doesn't seem like it really
affects a lot of the balls that he gets to.

Speaker 1 (44:41):
I think the range was okay last year. The year
before was bad. Yeah, he's very good at coming in
on the ball. And this is sort of what out's
above average. That cast will tell you, and it's it's
all video and facts.

Speaker 3 (44:54):
He seems like an average shortstop to me.

Speaker 1 (44:59):
Right, I guess if you're not going to hit though,
you need the glove, right, I mean exactly, take Brendan
Ryan back in the day, he couldn't hit the boy
he could feel so there's some value there, especially shortstop
right right. So you have short like Corey Seeger. I
don't know how good a fielder he is anymore, but
he can still hit when he's not on the il,
So he's an asset in that respect. But JP, if

(45:23):
you can be an average defender an average hitter, that's
an asset.

Speaker 2 (45:28):
Yeah, I mean it's which is what he was before
he had his breakout year, and so we just have
to just I think, come to grips with the fact
that twenty twenty three was the outwire and twenty twenty
four was the mistake, and so he is what he is,
and that is an average baseball player, both at the
plate and in the field. And unfortunately that description suggests

(45:54):
that you hit.

Speaker 3 (45:55):
Ninth, not first. Yes, I agree, eighth or ninth, that's
not leading off, big time, agree with that. I really
think Julio needs to be the lead off hitter for
this team moving forward. I think it's going to be
a second I just I think Julio in the lead opposition,
he just looks so much more comfortable. I think he's
better starting games and starting innings and starting the lineup

(46:15):
than he is trying to hit guys in. I don't know,
that's just me. I'm that's my whole I've said that
all last year though, So I'm going to continue running
that train. All right. We're bringing Polanco back.

Speaker 1 (46:28):
Like I said earlier. If he can be average averag
ish at home and above average on the road offensively,
that's probably acceptable again, probably better than what you had
last year. Defensively, that's a big question mark, yes, big.
You know when you look, everybody turns to Perry Hill
and makes it seem like he's a miracle maker, but
he's not really. He just takes, you know, like any coach,

(46:51):
they bring the best out in what's there to pull out.
And so take Suarez. He used to be a shortstop.
He had athleticism, same thing at second basement shortstop played
a little third before he got here. Polanco has not.
Polanco has less range. And the other thing about Polanco
that we don't really know is he had knee surgery.

(47:12):
How is that gonna work out? Is he going to
have swelling and things like that early in the year.
How is how much baseball activity did he really do
in the off season, like an October surgery? When did
he finally get the gear up and will he be
ready to play on an everyday basis.

Speaker 3 (47:28):
Jock's mentioned this a couple of times that he actually
feels more confident that they named him at third base
instead a second base. Do you think do you share
those same sentiments?

Speaker 1 (47:36):
I do? And it makes me wonder in you know,
rear view mirror. Now, why didn't they do this last year? Right?
Because his range has been terrible for years? Right, and
Rojas could play second right, right, and then you could
have platuned him with with Dylan Moore.

Speaker 3 (47:51):
But then if you're gonna do that, right, not just
keep Ginos right?

Speaker 1 (47:54):
I agree, right, come on, right? He could hit in
the ballpark, Yes, he hit better in the ballpark, and
he did away. And he's an excellent he was even
even in the second year when he wasn't as good
as the first year.

Speaker 3 (48:05):
Good.

Speaker 1 (48:05):
He hit better at home, and an exceptional defender and
a great clubhouse, a great club great clubhouse. Guy.

Speaker 2 (48:13):
Well, I'm too selfish about my own analysis to admit
that I was that wrong about Jorge Polanco, So I'm
just going to go ahead and say he bounces back.
I think it is, and it is, you know, and
it's just going to be a much better player than
what we saw at the plate. I don't think he
was ever good defensively.

Speaker 3 (48:32):
Maybe on an eight hundred ops guy, but I see
the seven to fifty, like you know, doubles machine.

Speaker 2 (48:37):
Right, that's what I want. I mean, speaking of which,
this gets lost in the shovel. Everybody got focused on
Julio's home runs. He hits twenty home runs. Again, I
wouldn't like it, but I still could live with it.
He gets seventeen doubles, I'm going to be pissed. Yeah,
I mean he had thirty seven extra.

Speaker 3 (48:55):
Base hits last year.

Speaker 2 (48:56):
There were nine players in baseball that had more home
runs than that, and our star had thirty seven. Didn't
hit a triple the entire season. So he's just gotta
be better. Yeah, all I can say.

Speaker 1 (49:11):
Right, And the one thing I will say about that
is it's a common theme is that well that oh,
Julio is the key who lose the key, and that
pretty much tells you what's wrong with the Mariners.

Speaker 3 (49:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (49:23):
Now, I understand the Dodgers are the extreme, but Mookie
Bets played like one hundred and sixteen games last year
and they just kept on trucking. Mookie Betts is probably
a future Hall of Famer. Right, You could lose Shoahiltani
for a month and that team would still keep trucking
that look around the league. Right. So that's the advantage
of having a well rounded roster. Now the Yankees, as

(49:47):
much as they spend, if he lose Aaron Judge tomorrow,
they're on a hurt locker. We saw that two years ago.
But you're right about Julio. He has to be more consistent.
I do think he needs to walk more. I know
that sounds kind of strange to say, but he needs
to get on baseball. Totally agree, right, Otherwise he's just
I said that. I wrote this about two years ago,

(50:07):
and I got criticized for it. That said, if he
doesn't get on base more, he's just going to be
a running the mial slugger by the time he's thirty.

Speaker 3 (50:13):
Yeah, he's going to hit thirty.

Speaker 1 (50:15):
Thirty five home runs, He's going to strike out a lot.
He's going to be okay in the outfield by then,
and that's all he's ever going to be. And I
think we all hope he's going to be a lot
more than that.

Speaker 3 (50:25):
It has to be really hope so. And I'd totally
with you on the on base especially if, like I said,
he bat's lead off that he needs to do that
a lot more, use that speed. He needs to you know,
steal forty bases this year or something like that. I
don't know, but yeah, I think I totally agree with that.
And another example what Luke was talking about about the
whole lineup thing is the Astros. You know, Kyle Tucker

(50:45):
goes out for what two months last year and they
make the playoffs. Still like that, there's there's examples that
aren't the Dodgers where that the lineups are built where
your best player can be gone and you still end
up being able to squeak out some offense. Here, we're
not built that way. Nope, we are not. He's got
he's got to play every day.

Speaker 1 (51:04):
Take if you look at the Mariners roster, take how
many players starting nine, uh, would start on the Astros,
would start on the Rangers?

Speaker 3 (51:16):
Two?

Speaker 2 (51:17):
Right?

Speaker 1 (51:18):
Cal Right, that's it?

Speaker 2 (51:20):
Yeah, Well, Rose Arena would probably get in there.

Speaker 3 (51:23):
Even though even.

Speaker 2 (51:25):
Though I'm not a big fan of him, the antics
drove me nuts last year.

Speaker 3 (51:30):
Let's get in, let's get into him. What do you
guys think about him.

Speaker 2 (51:32):
This year, I mean the they, I mean he struggled
more last year in Tampa than he did in the year. Yes,
of course he didn't hit it. He looked like he
was starting to come out power wise at the end
there in Tampa, and then he got here.

Speaker 3 (51:48):
And he was pretty much a singles hitter when he
got here.

Speaker 2 (51:50):
So the back of the baseball cards suggests we're going
to get a better player than what we had last
year in a rose arena. But I certainly saw why
fans have been so critical of him. The antics, the attitude,
the stepping out of the batter's box on two oh

(52:11):
counts and taking pitches.

Speaker 3 (52:13):
He does that again, Hmmm. Can't deal with that stuff.

Speaker 2 (52:19):
Can't deal with that stuff because that's not that's not
being flashy, that's just being an idiot. You don't take
two O pitches right down the middle because you're trying
to set up a pitcher three weeks from now. Who
saw you in the scouting report do that one time?

Speaker 3 (52:34):
Well, I we don't know everything. Maybe he's being told
he has to take this pitch and he doesn't like it.
So like you, just like.

Speaker 2 (52:42):
Nobody's nobody today people today aren't even told to take
three O pitches. There's no way he's being told to
take a two O pitch. He's doing it to try
to set somebody up.

Speaker 3 (52:53):
Down the road. And he did it one time and
everybody acted like it was the coolest thing they ever saw.
It's awful. Don't do it again. And I can't imagine
Edgar and Kevin sites are going to let him get
away with that nonsense.

Speaker 1 (53:05):
I'm a little concerned he'll regress, regress. Yeah, yeah, he's
over thirty. He started off so poorly last year. He
did play well here. Like you said, he's obviously not
going to be a big power guy here, but he's
gonna in his offense excuse me, his defense is, like

(53:26):
you said, kind of scattershot out there. As long as
he can keep being on base, I guess he's good.
He's better than what they had last year. I guess
just a recurring theme and what what is going on
with the guy? But I don't know. I feel good
that they have him, and but I don't know that

(53:46):
he's he's going to be everything that fans are hoping for.

Speaker 3 (53:50):
I think we see a major bounce back. Randi Rosarin
I think he's your second best offensive player this year
in terms of just I honestly think so he's gonna
play every day. He's gonna be one of those guys.
He's kind of coming up on what might be his contract.
I know he has one more RB year next year,
but he's gonna need to start, you know, proving to

(54:11):
people if he wants another big contract that you know
he's not regressing at this age of his career. So
I think he's gonna I just I'm very bullish on
his attitude, not in that way, but also like you
see in the big moments when he like really is
into the game. He is one of the best players
in baseball. That's why he has the tide for the
highest ops in postseason history. Like the guy is, he's

(54:35):
a big game player, and I think he comes up
big for the Marriagers this year. And he's a big
reason why we'll get into this later that I think
the offense takes a big step.

Speaker 2 (54:42):
Well, you got up with Victor Roblakes. What are you expecting, uh.

Speaker 1 (54:47):
Less than last year?

Speaker 3 (54:49):
Yeah, I don't think there's any doubt.

Speaker 1 (54:50):
Ye, And I keep saying this. If he's at least
an average player. That's good.

Speaker 3 (54:55):
Yeah, but uh uh, I.

Speaker 1 (55:00):
Mean he wasn't for most of his career with Washington
and then he was the He was the third best
hitter in baseball under Dan Wilson behind That's wild show,
a hill Tany and Aaron Judge. Does anybody think he's
going to do that again? And if you look at
things like his h the Mariners stats with and without Robless,
their batting averages like ten points lower with Mitch with

(55:24):
no with with Robliss out of the out of the
right line, when when he didn't play in September. Yeah,
I mean that is insane.

Speaker 3 (55:32):
Yeah, it's gonna be regression.

Speaker 2 (55:34):
Ye, you just hope it's not regression all the way
back to what he was to what he was with
the Nationals where they cut somebody that they thought one point.

Speaker 3 (55:43):
Was better than one Sodo.

Speaker 1 (55:44):
But at least he can defend and you can run
when he's on base. Those are two positives.

Speaker 2 (55:49):
Yes, thirty steels, thirty one attempts last year.

Speaker 3 (55:51):
Well, and this is another reason why, back to the
first base conversation, I think Luke Rayley having him available
as that fourth outfielder in case of that regression would
be important, so he can play that outfield in case
Robost does go back to that thing that we saw
in Washington. So I don't know.

Speaker 2 (56:09):
Bottom line, a lot of guys have to be better
than what they were a year ago.

Speaker 3 (56:13):
But will we.

Speaker 2 (56:15):
All take what we got from cal last year? Is
that acceptable to everybody at catcher? Can we live with
cal Rawley's a season a second year in a row.

Speaker 1 (56:24):
I guess.

Speaker 3 (56:26):
Is he the best catcher in baseball? I kind of
was thinking about this the other day.

Speaker 2 (56:29):
They were talking about it MLB Network when they did
their catcher rankings, and I was really looking forward to
him getting boosted up on those catcher rankings, and all
of a sudden they're going through it and they're like,
is there a consideration here for cal Rawley as the
best catcher in baseball? And the guys they were putting
above him? I mean, Adlie Richman had a really off

(56:51):
second half.

Speaker 3 (56:52):
Than last year.

Speaker 2 (56:53):
Yeah, he was better than him last year. I'm sure
he's going to bounce back. I Contrariss as a hell
of a catcher a hitter in Milwaukee, but he can't
defend like cal Can, So yeah, I think he's in
the conversation and I still think there's even though we'll
take what he did a year ago, Luke, I still
think there's a lot of ceiling here. I think he

(57:14):
can actually get a lot better contact, and if he
makes better contact, he'll hit more home runs.

Speaker 1 (57:20):
Right, And he did seem to make better contact and
under Edgar. Yeah, that's one of the guys that you
could say there's a tangible difference. He and Julio would
be the other guy where you could say, yeah, this
guy seems to be picking up on what Edgar is
talking about, which I think is important for a guy
a switch hitter. Yes, in that ballpark, he doesn't Historically

(57:41):
he doesn't hit as well and there yeah his ops
it's six sixty eight at home, eight oh nine on
the road career career. Wow, there's only two guys with
the bigger split, TiO Hernandez and doing more.

Speaker 3 (58:02):
I'm worried.

Speaker 2 (58:03):
I'm worried about that. I don't think that that was
factoring in. But this is somebody that two years ago
complained out loud if we're not serious about winning, if
we're not going to add pieces. I mean, he complained
about it out loud, and then to have an off
season like this, I am.

Speaker 3 (58:21):
I'm concerned again.

Speaker 2 (58:22):
I thought that there was such a good sign when
Scott Boris, when he broke up with Scott Boris at
the beginning of the off season, I thought that meant
he was telling Scott, you don't want me to resign
with Seattle, but I kind of want to, and so
he was trying to get him out of the way.
But after this offseason, if Cal was angry before, he's
angry again, I'll almost guarantee it. So I don't know.

(58:47):
Maybe he does develop into the best catcher in baseball
playing for the Red Sox in twenty twenty six.

Speaker 3 (58:54):
I was about to say, angry Cal is usually a
pretty good hitter too, so.

Speaker 1 (58:58):
Right, I guess with In general, I'm not particularly thrilled
with the backup situation. I would like to see Cow
play a little less and maybe DA a little more.
I agree save that body, because you know the fan
wants to extend the guy. But if you wear the
guy out between now and the end of his time

(59:21):
is club control, He's he's going to be shot early
in his thirties. Anybody remember Jonathan Lucroix. However, he was
the hot commodity the Brewers had him, They finally traded
him to the Rangers, and then he ended up cratering
in a few years later he was out of baseball.

Speaker 2 (59:40):
The only thing I'd say about that, and I'm with
you one thousand percent. I felt that way this past
year where he's catching too much. But Salvador Perez has
done it and put together a long career, and they're
just now there's just this past year not having him
catch one hundred and fifty games. They're letting Felix for
Mean catch a lot and this year it sounds like

(01:00:00):
they feel for Means even even better defender. So Perez
is going to do a lot more DH.

Speaker 3 (01:00:05):
He's still had two seventy one with twenty and.

Speaker 2 (01:00:08):
He's in his mid thirties, and so Col's built a
lot more like Salvador Perez than he is Jonathan Lukroiy.
So maybe that big ass comes into play uh and
and he can do it. Maybe he can hold up.
I still don't want to test it, right, he's too
valuable of a commodity. I'd like to see him DH more.
Garver I thought handled Kirby well last year. They seem

(01:00:31):
to have a pretty good pitcher catcher relationship. He couldn't
throw out a single runner, and we know about the
hitting woes. He's gonna hit better than what he did.

Speaker 3 (01:00:39):
A year ago.

Speaker 2 (01:00:40):
If he can be George Kirby's personal catcher and George
never lets guys on base to steal, then you've got
a perfectly fine backup catcher and Mitch Garver who can
also DH against lefties.

Speaker 3 (01:00:54):
Is what I'm assuming him twelve million, and then he
wouldn't have that now.

Speaker 2 (01:00:57):
I know, I mean, it was a mistake, we know
right now. But at the time, I mean, you liked
it at the time. I was okay with it all
the time. I mean, I again, it comes back to him.
I'm not gonna judge purely on result. I thought at
the time it seemed like a pretty decent idea. And
Mitch Garver's reputation as a baseball player since he got
into this league is he has a great year and
then a terrible year, and a great year and a

(01:01:19):
terrible year. Last year was supposed to be his terrible
year according to the Mitch Garver calendar, and so this
year he should have I would think if he's got
one good year left in him, it's going to be
this year, and if he plays that role and he's
not expected to play one hundred and forty games like
he thought he was going to be expected to play
when he got here, maybe he settles back into that

(01:01:40):
I'm a part time player and I will bash lefties
when you give me a chance, I'll take that.

Speaker 3 (01:01:45):
So that leaves the mitches for DH supposedly and Solano
depending on, you know, wherever he is. My question to you, guys,
is which Mitch are you more confident in bouncing back
in twenty twenty five?

Speaker 1 (01:01:58):
Sarver really Hannager When I say it, bounce back like improved? Yeah, Okay,
he suggests that he's going to be an all starter
or a starter, but I do think there's the possibility
of that. More so, I think my concern with Garver's
health also is the same thing.

Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
But I'm more concerned about Hanniger's health.

Speaker 3 (01:02:22):
But if he's.

Speaker 1 (01:02:22):
Dhing primarily, the one was the one year they basically
DHD them More I think it was a twenty twenty
one where he had that great year and they were
very judicious on how they use them in the outfield.
Last year, I thought playing them in the outfield as
much as they did early in the season was a
big mistake. I think it paid a toll. He paid
a toll for that.

Speaker 2 (01:02:40):
I have hard time believing at this stage in his
career the player that we got from San Francisco that
he can stay healthy for two years in a row.
And then on top of it all, there was there
were stretches last year where he was useless. Yeah, right,
useless at the plate. Now, they were also a couple

(01:03:00):
of balls that he popped the other way to right
center field that went up like fifteen rows into right
center field.

Speaker 3 (01:03:05):
Like, geez, you still got that left in you. I mean,
he's gonna work.

Speaker 2 (01:03:09):
He's got a great work ethic, great work mentality, no
question about it.

Speaker 3 (01:03:14):
But I don't expect anything.

Speaker 2 (01:03:17):
I think it's one of the most underdiscussed things of
this entire offseason is we have a monster hole at
DH again, to go along with second base.

Speaker 3 (01:03:27):
And unknowns at third.

Speaker 2 (01:03:29):
In the first base situation, that seems to be a
walking experiment.

Speaker 1 (01:03:33):
Right, And if you look back at the last thirty
four games, and even the thirty four games before Scott
Servis was fired, you had less of Mitch Haniger. Excuse me,
Mitch Garverer playing, you know, they reduced his role throughout
the summer, but then under under Dan Hanneger played apparent's

(01:03:54):
drop Yeah, significantly, right, And part of that was because
Julio came back and that pushed Robs over the right field.
And so you're right, I mean that's part of the
reason they were better. Robus was playing all world. But
also you were getting less plate appearances from those two guys.
You're getting less plate appearances from uh Rojas. So there's

(01:04:18):
a lot of reasons going on there. Perhaps the thing
to do, and whether they would do it or not,
is to is to move on for Mitch Haniger before
the season starts. It's a sunk cost and if he's
on the if he's on the roster, you're gonna have
to use him, right, not because what it was just
was to sit at the end of the bench and
you just don't ever use them. You're gonna use the guy.

(01:04:39):
So either you're gonna incorporate them into your plan or
why not move on?

Speaker 2 (01:04:45):
Well, I'll revive the Castillo trade that we discussed a
few stoves ago. Castillo to Boston with Hanneger for Yoshida
and Cassas. So will take your three years eighteen mil
for Yoshida, which you regret, but you're going to take

(01:05:09):
one year seventeen of Hanniger back. So that's forty one
million going the other way for this year. That's twenty
coming back. We have a bet an improved first baseman,
which means we've solved DH and Yoshida also can. Yeah,
he can play. I mean not an eighteen million dollars
a year player, but he can. He can puts the

(01:05:30):
ball in play, which is one of the big issues
with this team. Yeah, so that's something that I would entertain.
I know we said it's probably too late for a trade,
but I don't think Boston's going to do that. It
doesn't sound like but that's what I would propose.

Speaker 3 (01:05:44):
I'd do it. I'm doing that trade.

Speaker 1 (01:05:47):
Yeah, I would do it too. You would assuming that
I would trade a starting pitching No, you mean.

Speaker 3 (01:05:51):
You don't even have to assume that at this point?
Would you still not do that?

Speaker 1 (01:05:54):
Like? No, I would. I would consider that. Yeah, I
mean Chuck makes some good points. Yeah again, Hager, there
you have to use the guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's
only so many position players.

Speaker 3 (01:06:06):
The only thing that makes me like, really think about
that is Castillo's by far the best player of all
four of those guys. Uh. I know Costas has some
upside too, for sure, you never know what you're gonna
get from him, but and a lot of people do
believe he's gonna be one of the better first basement
of the game next year. I watched a player game
last year.

Speaker 2 (01:06:23):
He had three home runs and three consecutive at bats
and there wasn't a cheap one in the bunch.

Speaker 3 (01:06:28):
No, and I can hit. I think I think that's
a good, relatively good expectation for him. And I like
Kyoshida too. I agree that he's not an eighteen million
dollar player, but I think he gives you more value
than Hanneger does. Well, he's only a one.

Speaker 2 (01:06:41):
Million dollar player if we can get Hanniger exactly exactly right,
right right again.

Speaker 1 (01:06:46):
As last offseason, they moved some money around with the
Robbie Ray Hanniger thing. That's what they really are, and
they and so well he regret it, but but they
knew what they were getting into. And the other thing
we hadn't talked about with Blanco is he really leveraged
the manners. In my mind basically, so there's a no

(01:07:06):
trade clause in there, and there's also a vesting option
which is four hundred and fifty plate appearances, I think,
which is not that hard yet. I think he did
that this year. It was hurt. So you're going to
get him for two years. So if he is not good,
he will be here unless he accepts a trade to
somewhere else.

Speaker 3 (01:07:26):
Yeah, that's an interesting point. I didn't think about that.

Speaker 2 (01:07:28):
All right, Well, let's just go just starting pitching. Tell
me why it's going to be better, Luke worse just
the same, and why I expect it to be better batter.

Speaker 3 (01:07:41):
Wait, Luke mainly on the road.

Speaker 1 (01:07:45):
Well, the road is not that bad. I think they
get a bad.

Speaker 3 (01:07:48):
They were like ninth or tenth in the area or
something like that on the road last year, so it
was a little bit less. But yeah, right, but they
pitched well enough. They had the most quality starts on
the road of any team point and they only had
a twenty seven to thirteen record.

Speaker 1 (01:08:02):
Seems pretty bad.

Speaker 3 (01:08:03):
Do we not make the playoffs again because you've had
a terrible offense, Jerry?

Speaker 2 (01:08:09):
So they allowed we were top ten and WRC plus
on the road, they would not have a terrible offense wrlus.

Speaker 1 (01:08:18):
What a terrible Well, it's in that way, yes, yes.
And the thing is it's funny that here's a guy
that's super saber metric and he's just acting like he's
like he just found out about it, and he's trying
to explain to us why it's so great when we
all have the Internet, we all have fangrafts, we all

(01:08:40):
have taste, all savant and things like that. And to
come out and say, I mean wr C plus, it
just to me, it's useless. In a team total respective,
it means nothing. All it matters are runs scored run differential.
That is what matters. Who scored more runs last night? Yeah,

(01:09:00):
it doesn't matter what ballpark it. It is if you score
more runs than the other team, either in Coors Field
or a Tea Mobile park, you win the game and
nobody cares what your WRC plus.

Speaker 2 (01:09:10):
Was a cherry picked a stat that he thought could
buffalo us into believing, not us, but the masses that
hurt his comments, into believing that they weren't a bad
offense last year. They were a bad offense last year.

Speaker 1 (01:09:28):
A lot of what he said sounded like corporate speak.
Totally is what you would what should go on in
the executive suite at Tea Mobile Park with the boss,
not what you're talking to fans.

Speaker 3 (01:09:41):
Or the media.

Speaker 1 (01:09:42):
Nobody cares about what you've done over the last three years.
All that matters is what you did last year and
what you're going to do this year. I inderstand. You know,
an organization like that is looking at three and five
year budgets and all that sort of thing. Fine, you
do that behind the scenes, but out in the public
talking about winning and trying to sell that. And even

(01:10:04):
the way he talked about the offseason mentioning a Rose
arena and justin I don't think that's a bad thing.
If you had said that in October. He said, we
started our off season in July. We picked up Randy
Rose arena.

Speaker 2 (01:10:19):
As opposed to saying we have three in field holes
to fill and that's our so that's our goal for
the off season, and then really not filling one of them.

Speaker 3 (01:10:28):
Yeah right, yeah, and insane. Both the Rose Raina and
Polanco are additions. They were both on your team last
year and they was saying Robless was an addition, and like,
I know you got him halfway through last year, but
still like, right, and what is he? Yeah, exactly, I
don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:10:44):
Be careful what you you know, don't put all your
eggs in that basket. But just just I want to
just talk a little bit about this that the pitching
three runs are fewer allowed in games thirty nine on
the road, they had a six forty one winning percentage.
They were twenty five fourteen at ranked twenty eighth in
the league. Okay, forty six games at home, three runs

(01:11:10):
are fewer allowed, thirty seven and nine sounds good eight
ZHO four winning percentage, ranked twenty first. Offence didn't do
its job.

Speaker 3 (01:11:20):
Yeah, time, thank you almost every time that they gave
up three runs.

Speaker 1 (01:11:23):
And think about how how many times this is interesting.
Third time I'm going to have to do is how
many games in the sixth and seventh inning when they
went to the bullpen was it a one run lead
or they were down by a run, or it was tied.
That means you have to go to your high leverage
guys over and over and over, and then you get

(01:11:44):
to August September, you're like, why are these guys worn out?
Because you wore them out because you never built the
lead or you didn't build enough leads often enough so
that you didn't have to go to your your top
guys every night or just about every night.

Speaker 3 (01:12:00):
Well ended up with.

Speaker 2 (01:12:01):
One top guy. That was another problem. Yeah, I mean
and even that so that was an issue.

Speaker 3 (01:12:09):
But yes, for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:12:11):
In terms of starting pitching, I'm I mean, they're still
ceiling here as good as they were a year ago.
There's no reason to think Brian wo.

Speaker 3 (01:12:22):
Couldn't be better, right.

Speaker 2 (01:12:25):
Bryce Miller was the best pitcher on the team the
last two months of the year, Logan was the best
pitcher on the team for the entirety of the season.
Wu was the best pitcher on the team per pitch,
and Kirby is the best pitcher on the team. He
just had an off year. But I think talent wise,
he's got the most the most stability and his anders

(01:12:46):
pointed out earlier in the hour, if you were to
start a series tomorrow, you'd probably start Luis Castillo first.
So there's upside here, and that seems crazy to say,
but this is still such a young group, especially the
four and five men in your rotation, that they could
actually be better.

Speaker 3 (01:13:06):
And this is a skill. This is something you got
to give the Mariners credit.

Speaker 2 (01:13:10):
For because I remember Marco Gonzale's.

Speaker 3 (01:13:15):
Rotation a few years ago that stayed healthy the entire year.
So it's clearly not a fluke.

Speaker 2 (01:13:21):
This organization, Pete Woodworth, everybody involved knows how training staff
knows how to keep people healthy. They've got their finger
on that. But can you expect them every year to
keep all five guys healthy?

Speaker 3 (01:13:34):
Probably not.

Speaker 2 (01:13:35):
But if this group stays healthy, I absolutely think they
can be even better than they were a year ago,
because I think Wu's getting better and I think Kirby
will be better.

Speaker 3 (01:13:43):
Yeah, I think I agree with all those sentiments. The
biggest question is health because I'm going to ask you, guys,
how big of a drop off would it be from
one of those guys to go down? And then you
bring in Emmerson Hancockuse I think there's a kind of
differing opinion on how big of a drop off that
is to him. I think it's pretty significant. It's a
drop off.

Speaker 2 (01:13:59):
But we'll compare our rotation with Hancock as a five
to anybody else in the American League. Again, I'll still
say it's still the best.

Speaker 1 (01:14:06):
One, right, Yeah, I agree with that, Yeah, absolutely. And
the thing is, you look at the take a Coeo
side as the veteran, right. I look at the other
four guys and my perception of them is they're always
looking for ways to improve. I know Miller, he posts
a lot of videos on Twitter what he's working on.
Brian Wu. We already talked about Logan Gilbert with all

(01:14:27):
his contraptions and things like that, and same thing with Kirby.
Kirby's intense competitiveness. I think he understands that he's not
doing as well as he'd like at getting guys out
with two strikes. These I mean, these guys are working
on all these things in the offseason. I would expect
they're all going to come in and be better at
those things. Health, yeah, who knows. But they're so deep

(01:14:52):
and you don't know what they really have in the minors.
I mean, how much did we talk about Brian Wu
really before he showed up. I believe his name was
brought up, that was sort of murmured and everything. But
he came up and he's just been outstanding. He's really
been their best guy in short bursts.

Speaker 3 (01:15:08):
Totally agree. I think talent wise, he has the ability
to be grace in the next couple of years and
he's shown I was worried about like his UH stuff
coming into last year, and he's shown that he definitely
can up that anti big time. And Bryce Miller, I think,
like you said, there was stretches of the season where
he was the best pitcher. George Kirby, I think for

(01:15:31):
the longest stretch and most Mariner fans, but think he's
your best pitcher at this point in his career.

Speaker 2 (01:15:36):
I think he's the most talented and one yeah last
endpoint control.

Speaker 3 (01:15:41):
Yeah yeah. I think we might see a little regression
from Logan Gilbert. I know it might not, but he
might not. And he's developed a new pitch every single year,
so maybe he develops a new one and he all
of a sudden has a new level to his game.
And you always know how I feel about Castillo. I
think he comes back. I want to see more outstanding.
I want to see more sinkers, slider and UH change

(01:16:02):
up from him, because it seems like that was his
best pitch and then they all of a sudden turned
and turned him into a fastball slider guy. So I
don't know where that came from, but I want to
see a little bit more of the left to right
movement and then the down. But I don't know, We'll see,
We'll see what ends up happening. What about Bullpen, you guys,
last thing, I am a little.

Speaker 2 (01:16:21):
I mean, not overly, because they always find a way,
they always find a couple of arms that you're not
expecting them to. At least that's the way it feels
to me. Where I am worried is I'm worried that
Munos is.

Speaker 3 (01:16:36):
The next Brass, the next brash.

Speaker 2 (01:16:37):
Yeah, you know, the overuse from the previous year, the
having to push him. He is one of the guys,
to Luke's point earlier, that they pushed, they had to
a lot, they didn't have a choice, and he started
to fall apart in September.

Speaker 3 (01:16:50):
He doesn't have a great body and so and he's
had injury history. So I'm a.

Speaker 2 (01:16:57):
Little worried that he's this year's brash. Uh you know
where he got overused the previous year. But hopefully we
get Brash back. And I'm still counting on Santos being something.
I know how excited they were, I mean Justin Hollander
was doing backflips on the front lawn over getting Gregory Santos.

Speaker 3 (01:17:16):
I thought he was.

Speaker 2 (01:17:17):
Going to be really good, and we never even really
got an idea of how good he is.

Speaker 3 (01:17:22):
So Brash isn't going to be back for a while.
If and so if.

Speaker 2 (01:17:28):
If we're get at the very minimum, Looke just bridge
the gap, so Munyo stay healthy enough for Brash to
get back, then maybe we can get all three of
them for a while.

Speaker 1 (01:17:37):
Yeah. I mean, I think I'm more confident at Santo's
just because he's already healthy. He's already throwing down there,
so he's a reliever, so there's always a chance he's
going to get hurt. I agree with you on Munios
as an injury history, doesn't have a great body, and
also he's going to I'm was surprised. I know we

(01:17:57):
talked offline during the off season. I thought he was
a guy that could possibly get moved just because he
makes a lot more money starting next year, and so
that doesn't fit into their plan Brash. I have heard
Dan Wilson say June, and I have heard Justin Hollander
and Jerry Depoto say April. And if you listen to

(01:18:18):
Jerry Depoto when he said it, he says, well, he
hasn't had any setbacks and if he doesn't have any setbacks.
It's April, and I think generally guys coming back from
this have setbacks. So I think he was selling a
little bit of hope there. The other thing is is
he going to be what he was before? It may

(01:18:38):
take him a little while to get back on top
of things, just because he just I know, he didn't
have the full Tommy Johnny had the brace procedure, which
don't ask me what that. I know it's not as
tough to come back from, but it's still a major
surgery and certainly could affect his performance early on. Look,

(01:18:59):
Robbie Ray, look at Marco when we when the Marriners
first got Marco. He wasn't I forgot what pitches when
he first showed up when they first got him from
the Cardinals, and he was he had had he was
just back from He didn't throw all his pitches that
first point there. And you know, the worst case scenario
is Noah Cindergaard, who map basically fell off the map.

(01:19:19):
I don't think that's going to happen. I hope that's
not going to happen. But banking a guy coming back
in season from Tommy john seems like a bad idea.

Speaker 3 (01:19:30):
Yeah, I think if there's anywhere to do it, it's
bullpen because then you have other guys to kind of
pick up the slack and then you know, maybe you
pick up someone from the scrap heap on the way
and turn him into something like they've done the last
few years.

Speaker 2 (01:19:41):
Troy Taylor last year, Yeah, I loved what I saw
out of him last year.

Speaker 3 (01:19:44):
Hurt, Yeah, he's hurt.

Speaker 1 (01:19:47):
You mentioned that last during that all the press conference.
He has a lad injury or I think it's a
load injury, which hopefully is not too serious.

Speaker 3 (01:19:55):
We'll see.

Speaker 1 (01:19:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:19:57):
No, I'm a big fan of Troy Taylor as well.
But and going back to the Tommy John thing, maybe
it could be a positive for Matt Brash, Right, he
had trouble with command. Maybe he comes back uh not
being able to throw one hundred and two with the
fall off the table slider, so he comes and maybe
focuses a little more on thrown it's like pitching instead
of throwing, and gets get it to the spot, you know.

(01:20:19):
So the stuff yeah, I mean, yeah, obviously, but it
forces a picture that you know, maybe didn't have to
think about that as much when you're forced to to
do that, and then by the time he does get
his stuff back, and you're going to think of it
that way, he's going to come back harder. He's going
to one hundred and seven.

Speaker 1 (01:20:35):
Well, the offense is going to be so good the
bullpen wan there.

Speaker 2 (01:20:37):
We go, there we go.

Speaker 3 (01:20:39):
That's the Lukes. A bunch of nine out saves Taylor.
All Right, Predictions, boys, what do we think in this
year playoffs? How many wins? And then if you want
to throw in any other MLB predictions along with it,
you want me to start, go ahead, jump I I
just I I think I.

Speaker 2 (01:21:00):
Ended up last year with the lowest total at the station.
For how much I'm called a depoto ass kisser Luke.
I think I had the lowest total last year at
eighty nine, but I still thought they were going to
get into the playoffs and they didn't. I'm not feeling
as confident this year. I think it's.

Speaker 3 (01:21:17):
Eighty three to eighty five.

Speaker 2 (01:21:20):
I just I can see how they could win more,
certainly with some with bounce backs that have to take place,
but how many of those are going to get versus
how many guys are going to still slide a little
bit from a year ago? So I just don't think
they did enough this offseason. And if they don't get

(01:21:40):
off to a good start, We've seen it before, they
won't address.

Speaker 3 (01:21:43):
It mid season.

Speaker 2 (01:21:45):
They have to feel pretty confident that they're in playoff
position to make additions at the trading deadline, and considering
how adverse they seem to be to trading prospects these days,
I'm just gonna say it's an eighty five win season
and missing the playoffs by a game.

Speaker 1 (01:22:02):
Again, I'm gonna be a little more bullish and go
eighty nine and say they win the division. Not because
they did enough, because they didn't. But when I look
at the rest of the division, I'm not exactly impressed
by I mean, Astros did get Christian Walker.

Speaker 3 (01:22:16):
They lost Kyle Tucker.

Speaker 1 (01:22:18):
Kyle Tucker a huge and Bregman and East Soak parates
parades will do well in that ballpark. But yeah, I
don't feel great about them, and they weren't you know,
two b's a year older. They're still gonna be very good.
I don't want to sound like the Astros are going
to tank, but I don't see anything near the Rangers.

(01:22:40):
They resigned Evaldi and they added a bunch of relievers
in Jack Peterson and Jake Berger. So, and their park
is sort of a pitcher's park and not as extreme,
but not as good as the old park was to them.
So I don't see a lot there. I mean Sacramento,
and I'm calling sacker Meto. I'm not gonna call him

(01:23:01):
a f Yeah, they signed Severino and they traded for
Jeffrey Springs, very good starting pitchers, so they're gonna have
better pitching until they trade them at the deadline and
then the you know, the Angels did things. I will
give them credit. They did sign Yeah, they signed h Jensen,

(01:23:21):
and I do like Travis Darnaut. I think that's a
good pick up as a backup catcher. That's a great
I love the marriage that did that backup catcher play
sixty games dh it hits the ball hard. Yeah, that
would have been nice for the Mariners. But then again,
who else they got JD. Davis and Dakota Hudson and
some other people. So and so because of that, I

(01:23:44):
see the Mariners finishing in first place, not so much
for what they did, because I think the rest of
the field is going to let them move ahead, especially
with that starting pitching.

Speaker 2 (01:23:55):
I would be a little worried about the Rangers because
they didn't get anything out of Evan Carter last year,
and why at Langford had a lot more difficult of
a season than what they were expecting. They compare that
dude to Mike Trout for goodness sake. Those two guys
I believe in, and they're going to be really good
and we're gonna have to deal with them for years,

(01:24:17):
and we're going to go around, monkey around and waste
our great pitching opportunity here as those guys suddenly hit
their peak going forward. So I'm a little more worried
about the Rangers. I think you're right there with the Astros.
The A's are going to be better, and the Angels
will be last.

Speaker 3 (01:24:35):
YEP, I kind of agree with what Chuck just said.
The Rangers are the biggest threat. I still don't think
their pitching is good enough though to really be a
It wasn't two years ago either though, and they won
the World Series. Yeah, what I mean they traded for
sures or what I was so, I mean they ended
up moving for pieces that ended up helping them because
their offense was so good, and their offense took a
pretty big step back last year. Who knows what's corey

(01:24:57):
Seekers health looking like. I I think ninety one wins
for the Mariners. I'm pretty dang high, and I think one.
I think we see Julio in the MVP conversation for
most of the season. I think he starts off hot
and just continues to go. I said earlier, I think
a big, big year from Randy's is in case. I
think the starting pitching stays healthy. The biggest question for

(01:25:19):
me will be how the bullpen works out, and then
second first base are going to be huge. If you
get anything out of those two spots, I think you're
in really, really, really good shape because every part of
the other. And that's what makes this offseason so frustrating,
is because this team's right there. You just needed one
or two pieces, and this team is bona fide World
Series contender. But I still think they get it done.

(01:25:42):
And I believe a lot of the projections about a
lot of bounce back years from these guys. JP goes
back to his normal self, Julio turns into MVP Julio.
So I think that's the main reason.

Speaker 2 (01:25:51):
Why spring training coverage always adds one and a half
wins per year. So I'm going to keep my predictions
around eighty three to eighty five and then prepare that
I probably will boost it.

Speaker 1 (01:26:04):
At some point.

Speaker 3 (01:26:04):
But I'm worried.

Speaker 2 (01:26:05):
I mean I feel a lot more worried this year
than I have the previous two years ago, whether or
not this is a playoff team.

Speaker 3 (01:26:11):
And that's why, exactly why they will be Yeah, right, everybody.

Speaker 1 (01:26:16):
Sat around complaining all off season and now they're gonna
go out and win ninety five games. Just going to
catch fire right again. It's uh, the pitching staff is
so good, the rotation and then the offense, and there
just seems to be so much buy into what went
on in September and come on, it's not it's just

(01:26:36):
fool's goal.

Speaker 3 (01:26:37):
Yeah, good, big goal.

Speaker 1 (01:26:38):
I mean when you look at you were talking about
bunting before, Oh god, please no, I mean most half
of the bunts were pull on. I mean, uh, rubleish,
You're going to see more of that this year. Who's
gonna do it? Actually have the stats or somewhere. I
don't know who's gonna do it.

Speaker 2 (01:26:54):
Let's just put it this way, listen, Really, it's going
to be worked on, not for hits. It's going to
be worked on it. I asked Dan Wilson point blank,
anders was there about whether or not you're gonna play
more small ball? And he said, we are not ruling
that out. So they are gonna run.

Speaker 3 (01:27:11):
They're a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:27:12):
Faster of a team than they were at this time
last year. Uh, And I think they're gonna I think
they're gonna bunt more, which will drive analytics people up
a wall, but I think it's gonna happen. You're losing
that many games by one run, you gotta try something different.

Speaker 1 (01:27:27):
Well, it makes sense for guys that aren't hitting very
well anyway. If you tell me Leo Revas is gonna
bunt more than I'm that makes sense to me.

Speaker 3 (01:27:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:27:35):
Well, I think Crawford needs to learn how to do
it rather. I'd much rather see him square a bunt
than try to drop his back shoulder and hit one
to the hit it here, Cafe.

Speaker 1 (01:27:45):
Right, And sometimes you do make the out. I'm not
a big fan of that, but you make the out
to move the runner, so be it.

Speaker 2 (01:27:50):
Yeah, if you see a little different version of them
this year, I don't think there's any doubt about that.
And so no, I don't expect him to carry over
the six runs per game magic now that they had
for the last thirty five games.

Speaker 3 (01:28:00):
You just died forty four man.

Speaker 2 (01:28:02):
But I think that they're I think they are recognizing
we struggle in all ballpark to put the ball in play.
We strike out way too much, uh, and so what
can we do to make sure that we're putting the
ball in play more frequently? They're they're they're definitely focusing
on hitting the ball up the middle, and I think
they're going to play a lot more small ball than

(01:28:23):
what we're what is deemed acceptable in the modern era.

Speaker 1 (01:28:27):
Well, I think uh Luke Rayley is a great example
of the mentality you would like to see in a player. Yes,
he can crush the ball, you can also see that
opportunity to drop a bunt down when they're playing too
d off the line. That sort of thing. To me,
that mentality is more important than having the third base

(01:28:49):
coach telling the guy to bunch and hopefully he could
do on that, right, I think that's it. Robles is
another example of date. So they bunt bunted forty nine
times last year, Robless and real they counted for thirty
of those Pence. Okay, so it's most of their bunts
right there.

Speaker 3 (01:29:06):
And Raightley was so good at it.

Speaker 2 (01:29:08):
I found myself wanting him to do him more.

Speaker 3 (01:29:10):
But you're right. It is the sort of the mentality
that they they bring to the field.

Speaker 1 (01:29:15):
Polonko did it. He had four hits, four bunts, four hits.

Speaker 3 (01:29:19):
Wow, there you go, poor, Hey, that's one way to
hitting T Mobile Park. Let's go.

Speaker 2 (01:29:24):
You know, no one's ever hit a thousand in a
baseball season. Polanco short changed himself. He was on pace.
Kept Yeah, all right, Well that's gonna do it for
this edition of Stove. Thank you for joining us. We
appreciate it. Thank you, Luke, We appreciate it. You can
just google Luke. This is how he tells me to,

(01:29:46):
you know, share the information. Just google Luke Arkins. It'll
lead you right there to the conciliary and uh and
then you get access to all of his information, how
to follow him on Twitter, how to read his newsletter,
everything else. It is a really valuable tool to use
during the baseball.

Speaker 3 (01:30:03):
Highly recommend it, highly awesome stuff if you're into that
and like kind of following throughout the season. Luke always
picks out really good talking Points, and I check it
out whenever I can.

Speaker 1 (01:30:12):
It's a great price too. It's free there you go,
so subscribe and it'll be in your inbox. You can
also if you just my Twitter handle is at Luke
Underscore Arkins, or like Chuck said, just google my name.
It's the first thing that comes up. It's all my
stuff there right in the beginning. So yeah, thanks for
having me. It's fun.

Speaker 3 (01:30:32):
Yeah, well we'll do it again for sure. This is
probably our last Stove episode, right, Chuck. So you're gonna
head down to spring training next year for sure, and
I'm totally down to get you in more often for sure.
So yeah, I'm around sweet for Anders Hers and Luke Argans.
My name is Chuck Powell.

Speaker 2 (01:30:48):
I'm heading to spring training.

Speaker 3 (01:30:49):
So the next time you hear me talk, I'll have
a tan. All right.

Speaker 2 (01:30:54):
Thanks for being with us all off season. We do
appreciate it and enjoy the baseball campaign.

Speaker 3 (01:31:00):
Mean