Champions of Change: Michael Bennett, Doug Baldwin and Cliff Avril

Ian Furness sits down with Michael Bennett, Doug Baldwin and Cliff Avril in a rousing discussion of the Seahawks Super Bowl run, life after football and why they continue to give back to the Seattle community. Plus, a June event you won't want to miss.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Well, there are legends, andsometimes that term is used rather loosely,
and then there are true legends.And three in studio with me today to
talk about a great event coming upand everything else going on. And I
think everyone here in this town lovesto hear from and get caught up with
the three legends that are sitting withme right now. Michael Bennett, Cliff
Avril, and Doug Baldwin are here. Champions of Change is coming up the

(00:24):
All Star Basketball Game Friday, Junetwenty third at seven o'clock. Tickets at
Ticketmaster use the code Champions one tobuy one and get one as well.
More on that in a second.But man, how great is this to
see these three in studio. Cliff, you're the radio professional. You want
to introduce these guys. You justended again. You're using that word very
loosely, Michael, professional, chef, legend, love. People use those

(00:48):
words so loosely, like I'm achef. No, you cook in the
house. That's not a chef,like a professionals is not the same.
Love is I'll give my life.It's like people use these words loosely,
but I get it. So you'rea legend, You're you know what.
Sometimes we do hear your Seahawk eventsand they go, that's the legends,
the legends are here, and I'mlike that dude played one game. I

(01:10):
thought it just meant that you're old. Yeah, well, you know you're
looking at me, aren't you.When you say that, When they say
you're a legend, it does makeyou feel It puts numbers on you.
When somebody like me and Cliff standingsand wearing some guys like, oh,
we used to watch you in middleschool. I'm like, that's the worst.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I'm not that old. I'm
not. I made a note.I gotta I got a story to tell

(01:32):
you, a current seahawk that thatactually went down that road with you,
Michael in the second. So yeah, I'll do that in a second.
Let's get caught up talk about theevent. Let's get caught up. Uh,
Doug will start with you. You'rein town, you're working hard,
doing stuff that that is big time, more important than football um and I
know you get the foundation, you'reworking with the sea, you're renting.
Catch people up on what Doug ballwins up to. We are in the

(01:53):
final days of um our community Centerbeing open, so we're are not being
open final days of being opened,the final days before we are open.
So our opening ceremony will be onJune sixteenth, and we open our doors
to the community on the twenty sixthof June. Um it's been a decade
into making trying to bring that tolife and we're finally here. And then,

(02:15):
you know, just trying to keepup with these guys when we work
in the Champions of Change stuff.But other than that, just running around
behind my three daughters. My oneof my favorite guys to talk to over
the years. All three of youguys for different reasons. I might have
to tell a story or two alongthe way in a second, but all
three of you guys for different reasons. But Michael Bennett, when when he
came to town, back to townin twenty thirteen and we're like one of

(02:37):
the first times I interviewed him forfor Fox thirteen, I said, this
guy, this guy's there's there's apersonality here that the NFL has no idea
about. These one of the mostunique characters I've ever met, and was
fun and a challenge to talk to, but always open and fun to talk
to you and then you go intoretirement and just like we barely hear from
you, Like you went from everymicrophone was in front of Michael Bennett too,

(02:59):
like work, kind of like yourfriend Doug over here. It's still
the same now if you put amicropune on, he's gonna go. He
just hasn't had any It's that thinglike I always like have jobs, you
know, from people that want meto come and do media and and don't
mean NFL games, but it's justlike I don't know the way that it's

(03:21):
kind of done. It's kind oflike outdated, I feel like. So
it's kind of like it's like Idon't want to walk into a situation and
do it exactly exactly how Michael Strahandid it, or do exactly like everybody
else, just like you go intoit and there's no really you know,
church, there's no personality. It'skind of like so for me, it's
like, oh, you could dothis, but you can't do that,
And I'm just like, well,I don't think I want the job then,

(03:42):
you know, so yeah, Idon't know. So you went to
the NFL broadcasting boot camp, youprobably get expelled after day one. Yeah,
Yeah, it's like because those guysare all buttoned down here, so
how you read to tell a problem? Yeah right, It's like I'm like,
no, I'm not talking like that. I'm gonna say just like that,
just how it was. That's notme. I'll say just like how
I would be at homes And it'slike to me, I think that what

(04:05):
makes the game fun is like whenpeople can you know, because it's like
everybody's trying to like say they canguess the plays, and nobody can really
guess the plays. It's just likeit's just about like you know, you
know, having an opinion and aperspective on the game and just kind of
like allowing fans to be be apart of that, not trying to be
above their head and have like thislanguage that they can't connect to, but

(04:26):
like bringing it down like how theyplay Madden, you know, like that's
that's that's how people want to watchthe game. Yeah. I think you
know well, and you when youdid sidelines last year and you would do
on the preseason broadcast, it wasvery Michael Bennett. Yeah, there was
no pure comedy. Yeah, itwas great. Yeah. Yeah, anytime,
I'm gonna tell you right now,it is obviously he's a really good
friend of my best friend. Butlike anytime him or Marshawn teld me they're

(04:51):
gonna be on TV, it's gonnabe pure comedy. So I have to
tune it because I because I knowobviously we know them firsthand. So when
they get in front of the screenand like they're really will say that,
oh they did say it on TV. It's always good time. Well,
Cliff, when when when Marshawn's onTV, you know what happens is the
guy sitting in from from an audience, they've got their finger on the dump
button and and the truth of theworld is is it like every seven seconds?

(05:15):
Just my producer, But I think, like if it, if it
happens more than once, the FCC'scalling your yea, they're calling your day
and all three your dads, allthree your parents. I like, Doug,
you're you're chasing around kids, Cliff. I know you're chasing around kids
because my daughter's working at your schools. Yeah, and they say that,
by the way, the best kidsthat she has are yours. Like I
hear, great, that's better betterbe the case. I appreciate. I

(05:38):
appreciate that the situation now let mewe get a lot to talk about today,
and we'll get to some you know, football and some stories and and
you know, and all of thatchampionship change. Doug, what does it
mean? What it's about? What'sthe goal with this event besides having some
fun and watching some guys out thereplaying some hoops. Yeah, So the
essence of it is basically taking everythingthat we learned in the sport of football

(05:59):
and the team sport of football,especially at that level, all the lessons
that we learned through winning a championshipand going back to the Super Bowl and
applying all those lessons to supporting thecommunity in a team way. That's what
it's about, right, And findingthose organizations that are on the ground doing
really really good work that don't necessarilyspend the time to market themselves, right

(06:21):
because they're just so focused on doingthe work. That's where we come in.
We support them in terms of themarketing, putting the spotlight on them,
and then galvanizing the community to helpraise funds so they can scale and
do more of the work that theydo. So basically it's it's grassroots organizations
that probably need a little boost promotionwise or financially or what have you.

(06:42):
Yeah, is that how it isexactly. And I think the biggest thing
is to to elaborate a little bitmore off of what Doug just said.
Is just shining light on the workthat they're doing. Right. You know,
we all came together, we alldo a lot of stuff in the
community. We all have been doinga lot of different things in community for
a last decade, so um,and and we we we always find ourselves

(07:03):
in the same rooms, right,Um. You know when we're doing some
banquets and different things like that,it's like, Okay, well man,
how much how much bigger could wemake this if we brought all of our
networks together, right, and andtry to create something fun, but more
so for the community and for allthe people that we've been serving. Um.
So it's just it's just great tobe able to shed light on all

(07:25):
these different organizations that are actually pillarsof our community. Um. But they
just don't get the recognition. It'shard because recognition is hard because you don't
want to kind of point yourself,right. I always say, now,
I think back to you know,one of the first times I was interviewing
my Cliff and you were doing buildinga house for every sack ye back in
Haiti, and I thought, well, why don't we know about this,

(07:46):
Like like but you weren't a hey, you weren't a look at me guy.
It was just, oh, nowwe found out that's what we So
then like I think a lot ofpeople like, hey, we gotta promote
this, and we got to helpthis guy. You know, Michael's gotta
you know, maybe step aside.Let you get a sac ortwal the way,
you know, it's enough out.I kind of agree with you.
It's just this moral balance of liketrying to like be authentic and not be

(08:11):
a part of like a commercial world, but in the essence of it all,
you kind of need those things tomess to actually be where you want
to be. And I think,you know, especially for me, I
feel like Clifford is the same,Like we always talk like but we just
want to do the work. Andit's always the reminder of like there's people
that we're trying, we're doing hiswork, but we also got to you
know, build a pipeline of soldiersto come after us, to you know,

(08:33):
make sure that this this world continuesto grow in the way that we
want it to be. I likethat idea because it's you know, you
guys can do as much as youcan, but you can't do it by
yourself, no, right, Like, and then there's got to be another
generation behind you. How much ofthat do you install anybody instill in your
kids? Like hey, like likethis is what like like giving back is
something It's extremely important, right,It's extremely important. I know for me,

(08:56):
Um, I think it's it's importantbecause let's be real, none of
our kids are gonna grow up theway we grew up, right, So
keeping perspective is also part of it. So making sure that their perspective on
life and perspective on how things reallyare moving in this world, I think
it's extremely important. So they're involvedin everything that I do, whether we're
talking about some of the things thatI do during the holiday seasons, and

(09:18):
making sure that they understand that theyhave to even in our household during Christmas,
like you have to give up alot of the crap toys that you
have around here to be able toget more gifts. Like that's a thing,
right, So they go to allthe different events for me because I
also believe you can you can tellthem, but you have to lead by
example too, So they're my son'sgoing to hate you with me. And
it's been a part of those journeysbecause again, I think it's just extremely

(09:41):
important for them to have the rightperspective on life and then to understand that
it's not just about you. It'sall about serving other people as well.
Which dog that's been usince you gothere. I mean, you came into
town, you undrafted free agent,you make the team, You're contributing in
a way that you know, itwas just unreal on the field. It
always felt like for you though therewas more than football. It I felt
like there was more out there foryou. And obviously you walked away from

(10:01):
the game when you could all threeof you guys, well Cliff at a
different situation obviously, but two youguys walked away from the game when you
can still play. Yeah, right, you can still play. But it
felt like there was something something biggerfor you. Yeah, I mean for
me, it was my first daughterwas about to be born. Right.
And then to your point about youknow, how do we instill this into
the younger generation. I'm trying tomodel that after Cliff right now, right

(10:24):
because I get I get to seeCliff pretty often, and I see how
he interacts with his kids and howhe's teaching them about being selfless. Right.
My kids aren't to that age yetwhere they understand that, but but
I understand, um, the impatist, the impatist. Sorry, he keeps
using these Stanford words. Hey,I know what they mean. But you

(10:45):
know I'm a boiler maker. ButI don't know, man, there's other
words you could use, produce.Sorry. Sorry. Um, I realized
that showing my kids, right,Maybe they don't understand it right now,
but just showing them and then modelingthat, and then also just my language
is really important around them. AndI know that's in general for how you

(11:07):
raise children, but uh, interms of really making an emphasis on terms
of of giving back and being thoughtful. Um, I know my language and
how I demonstrate that to them whenthey see me out in the community.
I know that's vitally important to theirstage now. But to Cliff point,
when they get older, yeah,they're gonna be involved in all the things
I'm doing. They're gonna have anactive role in it. And so I'm

(11:30):
looking forward to that too when they'reolder. Michael, about you with your
kids, I mean, you Rememberyou're talking about your kids years ago and
stuff. They might be getting alittle older now. Yeah, yeah,
kids are in high school. Yeah, I got one two years to be
college. How how's that going?It's going fun. Girls are interesting way.
But similar to like Doug, Ithink for me, you know,

(11:52):
like just to be vulnerable, Likeit was the idea of like you could
continue to play, but then likethe idea of not being able to like
have a brain, you know whatI'm saying, Like this idea that you
know, you that one day youwon't be able to think properly. And
I think for me that was oneof the biggest fears. It's like I
gave so much with my body,but I hadn't had the time to give

(12:16):
what my mind could actually do.And I think that's what's super important to
me as as just as an intellectualto think about that perspective and be like,
yeah, I could continue to playit, but what point it would
it be worth to give a familya broken man? And I often think
about family and in the sense ofjust like like I want to be there
for when my kids do those thosethings that all parents want to be there

(12:37):
for, the first child, youknow, marriage, college and then like
you know, the idea that somethingcan that seems selfless can become selfish,
and I think that's what sports cando. Sometime you can like keep playing
this thing because I want this onetangible thing. But it's like in the
essence of being present, it's like, oh, I have everything in life
that's important, the family, thekids, to things that really matter,

(13:01):
the things that truly make a humanfunction. I think, um, with
my kids. I think that's likethe most important thing is just having an
opportunity just to be there and justbe there in like in a in a
thoughtful way. I think as ahusband or a man sometimes like we just
kind of like people see us asproviding. But providing isn't just like in
capital, it's in providing in everyother basket, you know. It's like

(13:24):
these baskets of you know, youknow, kids showing up for things when
we have other things to do.Like I really have this thing that I
need to do, but let mesay, I'm not going to do the
thing I need to do to showit for you. And I think that's
something that that's sitting there. Yeah, that's it. That's the beating that's
the most important. Thing. Ithink I hear that from athletes a lot
a lot of people, you know, and just in life. And I
think a lot of our listeners rightnow, people listen to this right now

(13:46):
and say, man, I canrelate to that. You know. I
I've got a work late. I'mgonna miss this Literal League game, or
I'm gonna miss this concert, I'mgonna miss this play. What have you?
I mean, I can tell youthis being with you guys for a
long time on the road, Imiss a lot of stuff. Now I
don't regret it because that was howI provided for my family. Yeah.
Um, But if you can prioritizein that regard, I think that's a
phenomenal gift that you can have andgive back your minds and actually and then

(14:07):
also like you take it further.It's like even the kid, like also
just being a better husband, andit's like like you spend so much time
like it's being an athlete, likeyou really trying, like like people don't
really understand like like what it takesto be a professional athlete and like what
a family has to give. Butit feels good to be to be able
to give that to my wife orif she's doing something or trying to pursue

(14:28):
something that I could actually put thetime in to help her do it or
just be supportive about it because sometimesyou plan in NFL, that's just hard
to do, you know. It'sjust like, yeah, you got to
be dedicated to it, Like that'sthe only way you're gonna be good at
it, right, keep your bodyand mind, you spush your body and
shit, that's I don't think peoplerealize it's three sixty five. Oh,
it's non stopped. It's but goingback to what you just said, you

(14:48):
said something interesting at the beginning ofthat, um what with with even the
like the injury the brains. AndI used to say this all the time,
like especially when I got my firstlike real concussion, it was like,
what's the point of doing all ofthis if on the back end you
actually don't get to enjoy it,you know what I'm saying. And it's
like, so, but you haveto be a mature person to actually process

(15:09):
it like that, because at theend of the day, it's a young
man's game, right, so youyou don't even think past next year most
times than not. And I agreewith you too, because to be super
good at the sport, like youhave to strip away like fear. Yes,
like it got to a place whereI didn't fear anymore, you know
what I'm saying, Like, likeyou could do you physically were you fearful?
I think you can be you canbe first fearful of like not in

(15:31):
the sense of what's happening, butto be like there's two things. It's
like there's two a car on oneside, in the car on another side,
and like somebody's pressing the gas,and like, if you really want
to be great, you gotta bethe guy that never you gotta get out.
I'll jump over this guy to makethe play that I'm supposed to make.
And then like at some times youlike didn't you try to get back

(15:52):
into society and it's like whatever everybodylike this. I'll just like dad that's
watching kids play sports, just like, Okay, you don't have to play
the way that I was played,And I feel grateful that you don't have
to do the things that I did, because that's that's not a safe way
to live, you know, theway to like really get to the place
to strip away pain and strip awayall those things to be good at something

(16:17):
you know, and that's a fear, you know what I'm saying, Like,
no, I agree, But Ialso think that there's a lot of
great things that are taught in playingthe sport too, whether you talk about
mental toughness, whether you talk aboutlike realizing how far your body and mentally
you can go, Like most peoplewill never experience that, you know I'm
saying. Now, Don't get mewrong. It can feel a little I

(16:40):
guess chaotic or whatever, but liketo know that if you really put your
mind towards something and you can stripaway the fear and strip away certain emotions,
I think allows you to really understandhow far you can really go.
And know I agree with you onthat, But then there's also that way
of like when you strip it sofar away that you kind of lose your
humanity and like you did, getdisconnected from what pain actually like when your

(17:00):
body saying like sit your ass down, you know what I'm saying. I
mean, even like you know,like being retired and like learning how to
lift weights because I never lifted weightsto like live, like, I never
worked out to just work out,like, so I don't know how to
train. Yeah, I don't knowhow to train not to be like good
at something, like I don't knowhow to do that, so I'm trying

(17:21):
to try to try to not looklike me. Yeah, exactly, exactly
excellent, he said, exactly.No, you look great. You look
great. I'm just saying, yeah, not now going into my gym in
my house, It's like, whydo I need to pick up four hundred
pounds? But in my head Ihad like I had to talk to clifforbody.

(17:42):
He's like, hey, bro,you don't have to do that.
It's like, just do one juststaying shape. But I'm like, bro,
I don't know how not to train. Like he's like, you're not
going to the game. So that'slike things like that that people we try
to like get back into being normal, just like those things are super hard
and have to learn how to fairlyseamlessly. Like, well, you came
in, you started to do amedia right away, you know you kind

(18:03):
of you you dabbled with the Patriotsand then kind of you know, went
back to Hawaii and became you know, full time dad. And for Doug
Doug just like I remember the draftand and there was like is Doug going
to retire? And like we askedShine or point black. It's like,
oh, you know, it kindof danced around it, right, and
then a couple months later Doug retiresand starts doing all of this incredible work

(18:25):
in the community. For you,what was the biggest transition when you left
the game? Was it lifting weightslike old man or what was it?
No? I mean, because Iwent right into fatherhood and that was really
really challenged. That was your fulltime job, that was my full time
job, and you know, youtake that being a father plus not being
able to properly mourn leaving the game, right, it was really really challenging

(18:47):
for me. And you know,there's it's a much longer conversation, but
similar to what Mike was saying,like even lifting weights, like I had
to revamp my mindset of how I'mgoing, How am I lifting these weights?
I'm not in my and my wifeeven she's like, why are you
so intense? I'm like, I'msorry, I don't know. I only
know one way, Like somebody askedyou why you were so intense? Also

(19:11):
too, like I mean, atsome point you gotta learn how to communicate
with people, like yeah, likelike you, your wife's like helped me
work out, like you gotta givethe ground like she's like, I ain't
trying to do I'm like, allright, yeah, let me tone that
down. But that even like thatis a real art though, right because
I think sometimes for us as athletes, we forget, like we forget that

(19:33):
we've been around nothing but high performingathletes for the last decade. So when
we go out and we step outand you go you walk into a regular
gym, you're like, what arey'all doing? Like now working? Now,
let's get to work, you knowwhat I'm saying, But you got
to realize that everybody doesn't move thatway. And it took it took me
a while to even get into spacewhere it's like, Okay, I can't
be yelling at my wife about hernot doing her squats right, like I

(19:55):
just need to teach her how todo these squats instead of know what I'm
saying, like, but it's it'sis definitely a process because again, we've
been around elite athletes for so longthat you forget that everybody doesn't operate like
that. Clift is a great jobof it. Clearly, I'm not trying
yet. I try. I try. I have my days, don't I've
been retired the longest, so Ihave a little bit of the scary thing

(20:18):
is all three you guys look likeyou still play so uh and you're playing
in the bad Championship Change right.I see pictures here, I see are
you guys all playing this thing?By the way? Oh yeah, Yet
you guys gets that's weird. Itgets competitive. I can't imagine that a
little. Cliff favorite Michael Bennett DougBall. When we continue against Championship Change
coming up Friday, June twenty third. Tickets available ticket Master. Use the
code champions one to buy one,get one. We've got two more segments

(20:41):
with the guys coming up next.Nine three point three KJFM Welcome back in
Championship Change All Star Basketball Game,Friday, June twenty third, seven o'clock
tip off at Climate Pledge Arena.Ticketmaster has tickets and the doors open at
six o'clock as well. Cliff favoriteMichael Bennett dug Ball went all with me
and more in the game in asecond, and what we're doing, I've

(21:03):
got to tell a couple of quickstories just because you know I was.
I appreciate you guys asking me tosit in with you today. This is
for me this is cool as anhonor. I really enjoyed covering all three
of you, and for very differentreasons over the years. It was fun,
especially with the TV with Fox theirteam. We had a lot of
good conference. We had fun conversations, We had hard conversations. You know.
Wins were fun. Losses weren't asmuch. Some of you guys were
easier to talk talk to after losses. Yeah, I don't like talking out

(21:26):
to them. I don't care.We shouldn't get better, we didn't play
good. This is but my storyto this. All three of you guys
are so different to talk to becausethe personality are different, and yet I
can see see how close and tightyou guys are as friend Doug Baldwin,
Like, this is how you interviewDoug Baldin. You better have a question.
It better be succinct, and itbetter be and it better be intelligent.

(21:48):
You can't go up to him,Michael, you were talking last segment
about like how media is nowadays.This is what you hear in media all
the time. Hey talk about Yeah, right. If I would have gone
up to Doug ball win after gamewinner loss, Hey, Doug talk about
that play, You'd be like,he's smiling. Now you're like Ian,
you can be better than that.I think he did tell me once or
twice. I think you can haveask a better question than he would.
He would tell you if you askeda bad question. But I enjoyed that,

(22:11):
like I thought it. This isa challenge. If I'm talking to
this guy, this is gonna bea challenge. If I talked to Michael
Bennett, I didn't know what wasgonna go on. I told him said,
if it's live, hey, youknow what it's because be entertaining.
He called himself. Is he blackSanta? Y Uh? The Black James
Bond took a shot at Dallas becauseof JFK's death, assassination a lot of

(22:33):
TV. And then he said,I said about the James Bond, I
go, I'll go, who am? I go, You're the white Goldfinger?
And I'm like, and how doyou answer that? You know?
And then I go to Cliff andthe Cliff Cliff and kJ where my two
guys like if there's a loss,like we'll find Cliff for kJ and j
J. Hey man, I'm sickof talking to you after the losses.

(22:53):
I think I told you what timesI'm like, I want to talk to.
You have to win too, nowcome on, j kJ would say
that too stuff. But you guysare a pleasure to deal with. You
really were as always fun, asalways entertaining. And I think and the
fans, the personalities and Doug,let's start with you that that era of
Seahawk football. I'm old enough toremember the Sonics in seventy nine, and
you guys have probably seen pictures ofthat team, the seventy nine champions Sonics,

(23:15):
and they're doing the parade. Thosedudes had the hats, the fur
coats. The personalities were enormous.I mean they were enormous on that team.
I thought I was compared to youguys of that team because unique but
big personalities. How hard was thatto bring all those big personalities together to
have that kind of success, becausethat doesn't know one or two things is

(23:37):
gonna happen, right, You're gonnawin or it's gonna blow up. Yeah,
um well it did, but notafter you got to ring out.
I'll say, first, let mesay thank you for giving us grace all
these all those years. Yeah,I know it wasn't easy. I know
some of us didn't make it easyfor you, but I appreciate you giving
us grace. Thanks, But toanswer you a question, I think the

(23:57):
one thing that we all had incommon, though, was that we wanted
to win, you know what Imean? And I emphasize that because even
to this day, that's the partthat I missed being around a lot of
high achievers who their only goal wasto win. You know. Yeah,
we had all all our personalities,we had all the things that we were
doing with outside of the field andoutside of the locker room, but when

(24:18):
we got in that locker room,the only thing the matter was winning.
And I just I really, Ireally appreciated that I missed that, and
so I think that's what part ofYes, we were all different, had
our personalities, but the core similaritywas that we wanted to win. Michael,
would you Gray, Yeah, Ithink that was the greatest thing.
Also think it was like a lotof people who didn't who wasn't supposed to
win. So I think that wasthe thing that kind of linked us.

(24:41):
It was like undrafted around like peoplethat were like overlooked, and I think
within that over being overlooked, therewas a sense of like grit and determination
to prove to ourselves, not tothe world, but to ourselves that we
belonged. And I think there wasa constant you know, struggle or constant
evolution of that and throughout the wholeprocess. But even but even the guys

(25:03):
who were highly drafted, like youlook at Earl, Yeah, Earle had
that same mentality. He felt likehe should have went higher. Earl was
the funniest one ever because he'd alwayssit there with this like like like a
couple you get to you guys undraftedhad a legit chip on your shoulder.
Yeah, Earl had a chip onhis shoulder. He always used to be
chripping. Oh yeah, no onebelieve Earl you were a top ten pick.

(25:23):
He's like he never like but heplayed with the same that same kind
of energy that you guys had.Yeah, And I think but I think
all of that was needed obviously forthe success. But um, I also
feel like we all were competing withone another. It was like an unspoken
thing, right, So, likeI know with Mike be and if you

(25:44):
look at our stats from a SAXperspective, we're always kind of around the
same number. But like, Iwant him to have as many sex as
possible because it's not gonna do anythingbut motivate me to like chase that right
and and uh so I'm competing withhim internally, but I love seeing him
win too, And I also understoodthat would that would help me win as
well. And I just think everybodyhad that dynamics to some degree. Whether

(26:06):
it's Sermon Doug, whether it's uh, you know, might be and Marsian
you know, running up the whateverit may be, we all were competing
and we loved every bit of it. And I think, uh, each
each day we knew that we wereonly as strong as our weakest link.
So within that competition, being asstrong as our we we knew I didn't
want to be the weakest link becauseI didn't want to break this thing apart,
you know, So we were allhold ourselves accountable for one another as

(26:30):
well. You guys think that theworld of NFL specifically, which is what
you're familiar with, but even prosports. As you're talking, all three
of you're talking, because I know, I knew how you guys were.
We all knew what that locker roomwas in terms of that. You know,
you hear the term competition all thetime. Sometimes it's true, sometimes
it's just a word that a coachor a player throws out there. But
you guys were all so uber competitiveand you had that drive that was just

(26:55):
different. Like it's just different.And you know, by large, guys
got paid, got some money alongthe way, got a second contract,
whatever. But is every locker roomlike that? And do you see any
change in the NFL like change inthe NFL. No, every locker definitely
is not like that. No,definitely. I think the NFL is more
like individual individualistic, like people are, you know, the Instagram area,

(27:15):
the Twitter areas. It's like Iwant to express myself with it to be
bigger than the whole. And Ithink for us it's like we're expressing ourselves,
but we understand that there's a biggermission at Bay. So I think
the NFL is a lot different.I think just culture in general and the
United States is just like that.It's like everybody has to have an opportunity
to share their message. I'm like, everybody don't need a podcast. Podcast,

(27:42):
you got it. We need tostart doing some i Q tests before
we give everybody podcast because it's like, who's gonna listen some people out there
saying and it's like you can't cuss, that's all right. We got well
believe it. People out there sayingstuff and you just like I don't.
I don't know, bro, likeyou shouldn't have a podcast, But I
just feel like, you know,the world's like that now, but I
felt like we were just kind oflike ahead of that and it felt good

(28:04):
to be like, you know,just what people who were. It is
an individual thing though. I Ithe part about you know, the chip
on the shoulder and all that stuffthat I laugh, Like, you know,
Travis Kelsey yelling after the super Bowland no one believed in us,
like what everyone believes in you,like when you today the twenty thirteen Seahawks.
Yeah, nobody did believe in you. Nobody, nobody believed in you.

(28:25):
Yeah, like like like you guysgot to New York and it's like
but I mean, I'll give youan example though. Its like for Shermon,
I, Yeah, we would battleevery day, yea every day,
and it's like you would think inpractice, you would think we didn't like
each other, right, but itwas just a competitive nature. But then
in a game day, if Shermonhad an interception, I was the first
one to celebrate with him. Yeah, you know, and that was the
camaraderie that we had in the lockerroom when these guys are making sacks,

(28:48):
like you know, it's this isa different atmosphere it is, And I
agree, I don't think that's notit's not normal. I don't know if
it's going to be replicated because cultureis different, right, And also the
proofs in the pudding. We wentto two super Bowls, right, so
it is uncommon. Well I wentto three. I ain't gonna say no
three. Let me clarify for youcan. We had one hundred and one

(29:12):
yards when the game was over,but we can't do nothing when the ball
was on the two yard line.He goes, But but we'd beat Carolina.
We we on our way back.That was the toughest team. Carolina
was the only team that it was. There was two. There was two
teams. I didn't like to play, not because it was just like it
was just Carolina. That was justone of those games where it was just

(29:33):
like all right, straight, it'slike and it's like we we were like
match like the teams were built exactlythe same. So like going to Carolina
and like if we don't give them, you know, three touchdowns it's kind
of like that's it that that's theycan't move the ball on us, you
know, and we just need tohurt. Yeah, you know what I
mean. Yeah, we couldn't comeback because the year before we felt like

(29:57):
we could. We did that,but they were in the passing team.
They were you know, they brandthe ball down in the clock, and
it was just like it was hardto come back from that moment. Yeah,
you got the ring, I knowis there. How would you describe
the feeling of not having that secondone? Let me go first before y'all
specks you brought it up. Iwouldn't bring it up. Let me go,

(30:18):
let me go first, befo y'allspecs out. I probably have a
different perspective. Yeah, I wouldowe in sixteen as a rookie, right,
so, being able to win aSuper Bowl, like most guys that
went that was on the O sixteenteam was out of the league within two
or three years, right So forme to be able to go from being
literally the worst team the NFL hasever seen to being a part of one

(30:40):
of the best teams in the NFLhas ever seen, Like that was within
a five year span, Like thatwas amazing. For me, right,
it showed a lot of different things, whether you talk about you know,
just staying in tune, hard work, all those different things. And so
when we get to the second superBowl, losing that, although I would
have loved to have one one,that that second one, for me,

(31:00):
it was more about you can't forgetabout what happened six years ago. We
went over sixteen you know, soI'm always looking from or where I came
from, right, So I'm alwayslooking at things half full. So when
guys tell me, hey, heyman, y'all, y'all could have won
two of them, like, well, I did win one. I know
a lot of guys that played fifteenyears that never made it to the super
Bowl, let alone. And inevery sport though, Doug and Mike,
right, like, in every sport, there's us that don't have it.

(31:21):
You guys have a ring. Youguys gave the city something. Yeah,
you gave you gave a city somethingthat they just have never seen. And
I think that's that's that's the blessingthat will always be there as well.
Doug, you want the final finalword in this segment, sure, um,
go for it, Go for it. I appreciate Cliff and the fact
that he has more grace when itcomes to that. But I don't either.
I could tell Michael, and youknow my mind honestly, my mindset

(31:45):
was, uh, yes, weshould have won that second one, and
if we won that second one,there was nothing to stop get the third.
I agree with that. I believewe would have had three rings.
I'll leave it at that. Mike. I love that. I've never I've
never asked you a question. Howdyou say nothing? Nothing? I like
it. I like I agree withthe first time I've ever seen that too,

(32:06):
the first. I do think thatthat team and that opportunity to win
that game in that situation, Ithink it's good. I think defensively,
we lost some people early in thein the game that kind of changed the
whole Yeah, Jeremy Lane getting hurt, Clif getting hurt kind of changes the
whole thing. But yeah, andthen, um I missed and loved so
much after after that game, Ohmy gosh, you got hurt. The

(32:29):
game just went downhill from there.They double that double down on you as
a rapp wouldn't Cam hurt too?Oh? Yeah? Cam? That was
crazy? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, Cam was Cam was a B star
can't even. He was, allright, we'll take one more quick break,
come back. Tell you more aboutChampionship Change next night three point three
k M Championship Change, All StarBasketball Game, True All Stars, Pro

(32:52):
Bowlers and more. Sue Bird,Gary Payne, Marshall and Lynch, Jule
Lloyd, and of course Doug Balland Cliff Favorite Michael Bennett, who are
here in studio at Jack Climate PlageArena. Come up Friday, June twenty
third, seven o'clock tip off.Doors open at six. Ticketmaster is where
you can get tickets. I toldMichael at the start, I got a
story for you. So I interviewedDevin Bush, new Seahawk linebacker a couple
of weeks, about a week ago, and I said, what do you

(33:14):
because he said he was watching thetwenty thirteen Seahawks, watching tape of that
with his dad, who played inthe NFL as well, And I said,
what jumped out of you? Like? And I'll be honest with you,
I was expecting to say Cam.You know, usually it's cam like
if you're say, if you're adefensive guy, a second, like you're
thinking about the guy's thumping something.Cam maybe Earl playing center field doing earl

(33:34):
stuff. Scherm you know, whathave you kJ Bobby, He says,
Michael Bennett. I said, whatabout Michael bennets Michael Bennett? He says,
that guy never stopped one hundred percent. And now, in Bush's case,
here's a guy that probably people havequestioned a little bit his motor,
like that's the reason he signed aone year contract as a free agent.
I have to be in a firstround pick. But it jumped out at

(33:55):
me, because he said, MichaelBennett jumped out at me. And I
talked about it a little bit,you know, and Doug, you'd appreciate
this. Even though these guys aresitting here. I'll try to embarrass him
anyway. I said, you know, as someone who watched and covered every
one of those games, those twoguys, those two guys on they jumped
out too. Because ever since then, I hear Pete Carroll, John Stodder

(34:15):
every year say I'm trying to findMichael Bennett. Lj Cali's gonna be Michael
Bennett every single year. Jefferson,Michael Bennett. You know, Alton Robinson's
gonna be Michael Bennett. Like they'reall trying to find you. I'm from
Louisiana. So you gotta goss thatwhat they are, that's what they are.

(34:35):
You know, it will never beenough. Michael Bennett. I think
for me I would say that wouldI actually love football, yeah, and
I like you play like it.Yeah. I love the game like I
love the people that play before me, like I see the greats. When
I see them, I know whothey are, Like I love watching film.
I just love the whole thing ofit. So it was like for
me, it was like I lovebeing on the team that like you would

(34:59):
play hard. Because Cliff with likehe was depending on you. The idea
that another person was depending on youmade it a lot easier for me.
I think sometimes you know, whenyou just have to do it for yourself,
you can let yourself down. Butlike having a group of men around
you that like or depending on youat that level, it made the game
fun. And like you can goto a lot of teams, like I've
been another team and those kind oflike it's not even it's not the same

(35:21):
feeling the essence of wanting to likecompete at that level, but not just
that. Even even with the notionand I'm not surprised that the young players
would say Michael might be or oreven dub or whatever. But I think
what was so unique as well withwith us in particular is like we weren't
just football player, like we studiedthe game. It was to the point

(35:42):
where it was to the point wherelike on Wednesdays, the coaches would come
ask us what are we seeing onfilm because they see how much it would
literally we come in on Wednesdays like, hey, Mike, did you see
he played such and such such andsuch such and such two years ago?
Like, yeah, hey, whenthey run it this way, this is
how they're gonna like it would Wewere really in tune with the game,
like we knew everything about whatever theperson we was gonna go against. We

(36:02):
watched so much film. So yeah, it might have looked easy, but
it was. It was more themental piece of it than anything. I
remember, just to remember a superBowl in New York. I remember thinking
and hearing from you guys like youguys knew on Monday when you got there
you were gonna win, like itlike like it wasn't just pravadal, Doug.
It wasn't just like we know,like you knew like you would watch

(36:23):
film and you knew on Monday,Well you knew probably the previous Monday.
I'm saying, they gave us twoweeks to study. He's like being the
great boxers, like you see theflaws and you know what your strengths are,
and like when he's like Javonte Davids, like he knows what his strengths
are. He knew Ryan Garcia wasgood, but he knew Ryan Garcia every
time he took a wide punch,he left his he left his body open,

(36:44):
and I seemed like an upset tome. No, there wasn't no
upset that was that was that wasjust him. That's your talent. He's
just he's probably gonna go down asone of the greatest boxes when it's all
said and done. I'll be wrappingup at this, I think, you
know, for for me, andI've talked to Cliff about this, because
my son's in small college football andeverything you just said kind of jumps out
of me because for him, forhim, the most important thing is the

(37:05):
locker room. Like that's the mostimportant thing. Like you know, people
I say, hey, you knowyou kid play football, I said,
you know, from my son,it was the best thing that ever happened
to him. He's diabetic. Ithelps him stay healthy, all these in
him. But also it's the lockerroom, like he doesn't want he's the
last guy to leave the locker room. Has been that way since high school.
Just wants to be the locker room. He's got like five teammates from
coming over on Friday. You know, if I'm feeding a brisket, it's
gonna take you know, hundred dollarsfor how long a you're cooking for?

(37:29):
Let me see you let me seehow many hours. Oh, it's gonna
be twenty four hour process. That'swhat I'm talking about. See in his
handset, We just that was worldpiece. I'm not I'm not. I'm
not a chef like you said earlier. Worked in restaurants for a long time,
so someone us had to grind beforewe got to this big time job
I'm in right now. Um,But I always think about that, the
locker room, and that's what itis. I'll wrap it up a disc

(37:52):
What is it about the three ofyou guys, Because there is a bond
with you three, and I thinkit exists with other guys from that era
too. I know kJ is reallytight with you it's cool to see.
I could just tell you this asit shouldn't be a fan covering a game,
But when I see fifty four orfor an Ota the other day back
on the field, that was justawesome. It just felt right. Yeah,
it felt right to see him outthere. But what is it,
Doug, and just go around thehorn to wrap things up. What is

(38:14):
it about this game and this sportsthat has brought you guys together because your
family? Yeah, I don't Iwon't say it's just us three. I
think it's that whole locker rooms thatwe had during that era. But I
think when you put a group ofguys together that are doing something really really
hard, but then at the sametime care about each other, right,
you have that that combination, it'sjust something special. And you know,

(38:37):
and it's not just football, it'swhat we do outside of the field,
Like this talks about this all thetime. We actually care about each other's
families, right, like we wantto see each other do well. It's
not just about yes, I wantto see Mike and Cliff get the sacks,
right, but I also want tosee them being good human beings and
good men off the field. Andanytime you have an opportunity to share that
with another human being after you've gonethrough something really really hard that only a

(39:00):
few people get to experience together ina lifetime. Yeah, it's just something
special that don't go away, andit's deeper than just football. But I
would say it's selfless and respect.Like we were all selfless, like we
wanted to see everybody succeeding, andbut we also respected one another. Like
I think that's the biggest thing thatall the different personalities, all the different

(39:22):
characters that we had on our team, everyone respected one another, no matter
how crazy they might seem in themedia or whatever. Like Richard Sherman respected
me as much as I respected him. He knew he needed me just as
much as I needed him, andthat's what allowed us to flourish. I
think, yeah, I think so. I think it's one of those things
where like it's kind of like wedon't see each other and then like all

(39:45):
of a suddenly in the room andit's like it's like and we also did
a lot of things. It wastough. Like I remember like one day
after practice, like like we're justgetting out the game like practice, and
like they're like Doug and Michael umcome CNN, Don Lemmon wants to talk
to you, Like, well,what the hell. It's like it's like
we had to talk about racing politicsin America at that time, and like,

(40:07):
you know, we on there withSpike Lee on there too or something
it was somebody else. Yeah,but it was like and it was like,
but we were talking about racing politicsand like we don't always agree on
everything, but that moment was prettymuch like me and Doug sitting up there,
and it's like we had that bondon that moment to go through something
that was super important to the cultureand what was happening to our communities globally,

(40:27):
and to be able to like sitthere with a brother and be like
now and on top of that andthen be like feel good after the conversation
they say, yeah, bro,I respect your your perspective on what you
were saying. I think that's whatwe, you know, come to grow
and love, is that we loveeach other's perspectives. Like see Doug and
see what he's doing, Like Iloved what he's doing because that's what it's
expected, because I've seen him gothrough the process of becoming the man that

(40:49):
he's becoming. Just as a asa small example before we get off is
the game I got hurt. Igot hurt on a Monday night against the
Cults and and um, you know, I thought I was fine whatever,
I end up going to the hospitallike in the second half or a second
quarter. This is an example ofhow important we are to one another outside
of the sport of football. Isat halftime, I kid you not,

(41:12):
I roll out of the MRI roomand it's just halftime it might be,
and the rest of the D lineis facetiming me asking me like, hey,
like are you okay? Like whereare you at? Like we're about
to go turn up the second half, like what's going on? So to
get the FaceTime at halftime, andthen when the game ends, it's like,
hey bro, I'm coming to thehospital right now, Like you know,
I mean, like it's deeper thanjust football, right And I think
that type of energy is why we'reable to do the things we're doing.

(41:36):
Right. You guys were you guyswere? Um, I mean on the
field obviously champions, there's no doubtabout that. You gotta ring, you
gotta LARTI trophy sitting out there andRent and you put a parade on that
was the biggest party in the historyof Seattle with people. That was crazy.
Nobody went to jail. That wasgood as far as we know.
Did I don't know people I runinto that they said their name last they
first name been it. Yeah,it's like, that's interesting. And we

(42:00):
had a baby because of you,because they named them after you, man,
Michael were it's conceiving. We werethinking about some one tell you right
now, if you back if youback time, if you back time that
two was it Tuesday? Is aTuesday? Or Wednesday? If you back
time nine months from that date orfour, yeah, you'd probably see a
lot of kids. Yeah. Canwe get the date of that? Is

(42:21):
it possible? I'm sure somewhere becauseof the win, you know what,
I'll get my research department on that. I think actually might have been doing
the BAT Championship Change All Star BasketballGame. It is June twenty third,
Friday, at seven o'clock. Doug, Michael Cliff, suber Gary Payton,

(42:44):
Marshawn liszt, You, Lloyd,so many others. There all benefits,
some great great charities and and andfoundations in this area. Doug can't wait
to see your new place open uphere in the end of June. Man,
congratulations on that, Cliff. Greatto see you and Michael Bennett always
one of my favorite. Damn goodto see you my friend as well.
Thank you some thanks for making atrip over here. Hey you look good
Man. Just to the radio.Yeah, he has a real radio body.

(43:06):
Guys, just just this is aradio body. You're making it worse.
Man, it's good talking about untilTV. Lady, what are you
talking about? Most mission you haveradio body is radio right there, Michael
following. That's it. We cando no more damage. I'm three point three KGRFL