October 17, 2024 • 11 mins
State Representative John Hodgson (District 36) discusses why he feels Kentucky voters should say "Yes" to Amendment 2 including why he thinks the math works out better for public schools and where the opposition money is coming from...
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Earlier in the week, we had the Lieutenant Governor of
the Commonwealth Kentucky, Jacqueline Coleman. She came by for a
visit because she wanted to talk against the Amendment two
that's in the upcoming election. It has to do with
setting up a system to allow for school choice in
the Commonwealth Kentucky. So speaking on behalf of Amendment two,
(00:20):
I invited Representative John Hodgson in the studio.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Mate, John, how are you hey? You doing great? Welcome?
Speaker 1 (00:25):
You represent District thirty six, and that's eastern Jefferson County,
far eastern Jefseon County. What kind of communities with the
Fisherville Lake Forest, I know.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Those play fields.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Yeah, you got to be close to one of my
family men, I think, I am. Oh, that's good, that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
You've already got from me once.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
In fact, my brother did. Yes, that doesn't it doesn't
surprise me. A goat and did he return the goat?
He did return the goat in good condition. Yes, fantastic.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Obviously, lots of eyes and ears are on this Amendment two,
which is to set up a system where funding could
be allowed for school choice and vouchers for schools. I
posted the audio with the Lieutenant governor the other day.
There are a lot of people that blow back against that.
So I want to hear your side of this as well.
Why amendment to is of value to the citizens of
(01:16):
the Commonwealth of Kentucky.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Well, Terry, in the spirit of education, let's start with
a three question quiz. Okay, good, what do Kentucky and
North Dakota heaven.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Common We're the only two states that don't offer That's right, Okay, okay,
I got one choice.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
The only two states that don't offer school choice of
any kind. Barack Obama Donald Trump pretty far apart on policy,
I'd say, So, what are they have in common? They
both agree on school both advocate for school choice. How
about that? I didn't know that you're two for two?
All right, Trinity and St X. I see you were
probably wearing your tea here both ways.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
So my kid went to Trinity and I went to X,
very competitive schools.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Yeah, but what do they both do? Well? Educate people,
educate kids for thousands of dollars less than JCPS does
at twenty two thousand dollars per student.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Oh and think about it.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Yeah, it's a better education and it's cheaper at Trinity
in Saint.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
X because of how much money is spent per student
in the JCPS system. Yes, that's right, okay, but obviously
you're hearing from people on the other side who say
they're taking money away from public schools.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Yeah, and that's just not true. We've funded in the
legislature of funded education at record levels, even adjusted for inflation,
for many, many years. We did that again this last year.
If you look at the statistics, since nineteen ninety, inflation
adjusted teacher salaries have gone up a paltry eight percent,
but if you look at total administrative school cost of
running the schools, they're up one hundred and twenty two
(02:43):
percent over that same timeframe. So something's happening. I think
it's a funding allocation problem, not a funding problem, because
we continue to fund at record levels. In fact, education
related things are more than half of our state budget.
We spend lavishly on education, and the federal government does too.
One thing people don't often realize is that in in Louisville,
and I'm going to talk mostly about JCPS listening audience,
(03:04):
we got a two point two billion dollar budget at JCPS.
Most of that comes from your property taxes. You live
in Jefferson County, you're paying a pretty hefty tax bill.
So out of that twenty two thousand, let's say around numbers,
about sixteen thousand of that is coming from your tax bill,
only about four thousand of that is coming from the state,
and maybe two thousand from the federal government. And again
those are round figures, but got you know, roughly a
(03:26):
fourth of it to state money. And all we're talking
about was school choice. Is the state part of that
money at the most. It doesn't touch the local tax
dollars at all, you know, because we don't have the
authority to do that. The local school board has the
authority over those local tax dollars.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
So you're talking about less than twenty percent of the
funding per student.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Something like that. Yeah, And of course if you take
a there's another thing that will make schools collapse. You know,
they won't have any funding. Well, if you're if you're
funding that student at ten dollars and that student goes
away to another school and only takes a fourth of
the money, you actually end up with more dollars per
student leftover. And our goal here, I think should be
(04:05):
to fund students and not to fund buildings and systems.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
I think people are pushing back those saying, though, if
you reduce the number of students and buildings, they will
reduce the amount of money given to public schools. And
that's some of the pushback that's coming.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Well, that local money won't be reduced at all, because
that comes from your property taxes and is under the
local control of the school board. The state legislature has
nothing to do with that, and we don't have any
intention of reducing education funding. But there are options for
kids to get a better, more individualized education, especially kids
that are on IEP and Individual Education Plan and that's
(04:38):
seventeen percent of the population at JCPS is on an IEP.
It costs a lot of money to educate an IEP
kid because they typically it takes extra teacher time. A
lot of them have helpers and aids that are with
them in the classroom in the case studies I've looked
at in other states and I've been to some education conferences.
The first kids that leave the public school system to
go with a school choice system or IEP kids, they
(04:59):
go to place where they can get individualized tutoring, you know,
or small classes five or ten kids in a class
and they thrive, and guess what, the school they came
from also thrives because they're not having to deal with
the differences of a kid that's on the IEP plan.
So the ones that are more mainstream that learned about it,
You mean.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
That somebody who's dragging down the curve.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Yeah, I mean you typically have to pace your instruction
to the kid that's the slowest to come along, and
kids that have an IEP have some kind of a
learning difference or an issue that makes a little more
difficult for them. So when they're out of the class,
they're often this school trust option. They're thriving, and the
kids that are left behind have more money pupil and
more time from the teacher to excel.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
One of the slogans the anti amendment to people say
is well, you're just helping rich people. It's only rich
people who can afford to go to private schools. I
can tell you in my personal case, I paid my
own way from working. I mean I had jobs after
school and at school, which reduces the costs. I mean
that's part of it as well. People don't understand that,
(05:59):
but they think anybody who goes to private school is wealthy.
I'm one of fourteen children. We didn't have any money,
but I went away to college. I got a hug,
you know. So it's like a lot of the things
that are out there are nonsense. But you have to
push back against the notion that only rich people are
getting this.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Sure, well, I mean right now, rich people, affluent people
do have school choice because they pay for it themselves.
They pay taxes, and they have enough disposable income to
send a kid to private school. But guess what. The
kids that are really hurting, the kids that are really struggling,
that are in economically disadvantaged areas. They're the children of
single mothers. They don't have those options. That mother can't
quit her job in order to homeschool the child like
(06:38):
some suburban parents do. They shouldn't have the funds to
send them to a private school. And in certain parts
of the city, predominantly the West End, there are no
other educational choices. A parochial school shut down years ago.
There's a couple of tiny offerings, but there are no
private schools. You're that single mother is trapped either going
to that neighborhood school that is struggling. That are kids
(06:58):
not doing well at or maybe win in the lottery
and sending the kid across town somewhere to forty minutes
away to be what goes seol people they don't know.
So that's the people we're trying to help. We've got
an enormous education gap in this city especially. We've got
twenty seven percent of our kids are proficient at math,
thirty seven percent proficient at reading, and the gap between
(07:19):
black and white students is appalling. You know the black students.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Well, I just saw a report that said, oh, they've
closed that gap, it's right there now not so much.
Do you think that's misleading data that's being put out.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Yeah, twenty seven percent math proficiency for JCPS, fifteen percent
for blacks. That's a pretty big disparity. Yeah, thirty seven
percent reading proficiency. It's at twenty two percent for blacks.
So how do you how do we graduate eighty eight
percent when two thirds of the kids can't read and
do math. You know, that's kind of frightening to think
of it. I can't even read road signs, right as
a perspective, employer, if you got an eighteen year old,
(07:52):
they can't read the safety manual, can't read the warnings,
can't do math? What kind of a job are you
going to get? One thing I do agree with the
Lutz Governor Coleman about is if you look at fourth
grade statistics, and kids who can't read in the fourth
grade are more likely to be incarcerated than they are
to be employed by age eighteen. Right. She said that
we've got kids trapped on the school to prison pipeline
(08:13):
right now, and we need to get them off and
I think school choice is the way to do that,
because school choice can give them the opportunity to have
the funds to get a reading tutor, to have a
literacy program, to go to a cottage school or a
small school, or some other offering that gives kids the
individualized attention that they need to get around their learning differences.
And all the states that have tried this, they're wildly
(08:34):
successful with this. I think out of twenty nine case studies,
there was only one that didn't have significant success versus
what they were doing before.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Although you're saying forty eight states allow this, because you
know that North Kota and Kentucky are the only two
that doesn't.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
That's right. So it's being tried everywhere it's being successful everywhere.
I mean, what in the world are we holding on to.
We're spending a fortune. Our educational performance is always on
the bottom fourth of the nation. It's very expensive. We're
not getting the results. We're not producing the workforce that
we need. You can read, write, do math, and act
like a civilized human being in the workplace.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Governor Basheer tweeted, I think yesterday is obviously sending out
the same sort of messaging, saying, and I'm paraphrasing, you
can't take money away from public schools and then punish
them for failing. But none of that's happened yet. Yet
we are in a failing position already with the current system.
That's a challenge for me, right, And I think that's hyperbole.
(09:24):
And he's not doing the math right because it's all
about funding per student. If we have the same amount
of money and the same amount of students, you're not
reducing the funds per student. And school choice options always
or cheaper than public school options. Where's all this money
coming from? To slam Amendment too. I see commercials on
every TV channel all the time. Where's all that coming from?
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Some of it comes from the Teachers' Union. Some of
it comes from out of state causes. You know, a
monopoly is usually not a good thing. A monopoly in
education controlled by the government is a terrible thing because
they cling to that monopoly bitterly. The Teachers Union, for instance,
has donated two hundred thousand dollars to a Supreme Court race.
Why in the world, what are teachers you need to
(10:07):
donate to a Supreme Court race unless they're planning on
using the courts to circumvent the will of the legislature,
of the will of the people.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Interesting, But you guys, the Republicans in Kentucky have a
super majority, So why aren't you able to marshal in
the same amount or more funds to push back.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Yeah, I don't know what the exact levels of spending are.
I know I get a mailer at my house almost
every day advocating four Amendment too, And there are a
number of outside groups that are pushing that. I think
you'll see more pushing for it, but it's hard to
get past the noise. We've got school systems that are
breaking the law right now. They are using tax dollars
and tax platforms to advocate against Amendment two. We've had.
(10:43):
The Attorney General has called down a number of school
systems for doing that, sending emails to all our people
saying vote against Amendment two. That's flatly illegal and they
should be called on it. I think there should be
some charges for that because they keep doing it. And
so it's the people and the taxpayers versus this government
monopoly system that does does not want to be changed.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Yeah, and the election is getting so close it'll be
too late to get anything done about that. But yeah,
I've seen the squabbling about that, right well, Representative of Hodgson,
I appreciate your time and your input on that so
we could have a counterbalance to the conversation we had
the other day. Thank you, my sure well, very very
good to have you here. And I hope no other
of my family members borrow any live animals.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
As long as they returning real good. That's good.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
That is Representative John Hodgson District thirty six on behalf
of Amendment two in the upcoming election. Coming right back
on news Radio eight forty whas
Earlier in the week, we had the Lieutenant Governor of
the Commonwealth Kentucky, Jacqueline Coleman. She came by for a
visit because she wanted to talk against the Amendment two
that's in the upcoming election. It has to do with
setting up a system to allow for school choice in
the Commonwealth Kentucky. So speaking on behalf of Amendment two,
(00:20):
I invited Representative John Hodgson in the studio.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Mate, John, how are you hey? You doing great? Welcome?
Speaker 1 (00:25):
You represent District thirty six, and that's eastern Jefferson County,
far eastern Jefseon County. What kind of communities with the
Fisherville Lake Forest, I know.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Those play fields.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Yeah, you got to be close to one of my
family men, I think, I am. Oh, that's good, that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
You've already got from me once.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
In fact, my brother did. Yes, that doesn't it doesn't
surprise me. A goat and did he return the goat?
He did return the goat in good condition. Yes, fantastic.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Obviously, lots of eyes and ears are on this Amendment two,
which is to set up a system where funding could
be allowed for school choice and vouchers for schools. I
posted the audio with the Lieutenant governor the other day.
There are a lot of people that blow back against that.
So I want to hear your side of this as well.
Why amendment to is of value to the citizens of
(01:16):
the Commonwealth of Kentucky.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Well, Terry, in the spirit of education, let's start with
a three question quiz. Okay, good, what do Kentucky and
North Dakota heaven.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Common We're the only two states that don't offer That's right, Okay, okay,
I got one choice.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
The only two states that don't offer school choice of
any kind. Barack Obama Donald Trump pretty far apart on policy,
I'd say, So, what are they have in common? They
both agree on school both advocate for school choice. How
about that? I didn't know that you're two for two?
All right, Trinity and St X. I see you were
probably wearing your tea here both ways.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
So my kid went to Trinity and I went to X,
very competitive schools.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Yeah, but what do they both do? Well? Educate people,
educate kids for thousands of dollars less than JCPS does
at twenty two thousand dollars per student.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Oh and think about it.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Yeah, it's a better education and it's cheaper at Trinity
in Saint.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
X because of how much money is spent per student
in the JCPS system. Yes, that's right, okay, but obviously
you're hearing from people on the other side who say
they're taking money away from public schools.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Yeah, and that's just not true. We've funded in the
legislature of funded education at record levels, even adjusted for inflation,
for many, many years. We did that again this last year.
If you look at the statistics, since nineteen ninety, inflation
adjusted teacher salaries have gone up a paltry eight percent,
but if you look at total administrative school cost of
running the schools, they're up one hundred and twenty two
(02:43):
percent over that same timeframe. So something's happening. I think
it's a funding allocation problem, not a funding problem, because
we continue to fund at record levels. In fact, education
related things are more than half of our state budget.
We spend lavishly on education, and the federal government does too.
One thing people don't often realize is that in in Louisville,
and I'm going to talk mostly about JCPS listening audience,
(03:04):
we got a two point two billion dollar budget at JCPS.
Most of that comes from your property taxes. You live
in Jefferson County, you're paying a pretty hefty tax bill.
So out of that twenty two thousand, let's say around numbers,
about sixteen thousand of that is coming from your tax bill,
only about four thousand of that is coming from the state,
and maybe two thousand from the federal government. And again
those are round figures, but got you know, roughly a
(03:26):
fourth of it to state money. And all we're talking
about was school choice. Is the state part of that
money at the most. It doesn't touch the local tax
dollars at all, you know, because we don't have the
authority to do that. The local school board has the
authority over those local tax dollars.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
So you're talking about less than twenty percent of the
funding per student.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Something like that. Yeah, And of course if you take
a there's another thing that will make schools collapse. You know,
they won't have any funding. Well, if you're if you're
funding that student at ten dollars and that student goes
away to another school and only takes a fourth of
the money, you actually end up with more dollars per
student leftover. And our goal here, I think should be
(04:05):
to fund students and not to fund buildings and systems.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
I think people are pushing back those saying, though, if
you reduce the number of students and buildings, they will
reduce the amount of money given to public schools. And
that's some of the pushback that's coming.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Well, that local money won't be reduced at all, because
that comes from your property taxes and is under the
local control of the school board. The state legislature has
nothing to do with that, and we don't have any
intention of reducing education funding. But there are options for
kids to get a better, more individualized education, especially kids
that are on IEP and Individual Education Plan and that's
(04:38):
seventeen percent of the population at JCPS is on an IEP.
It costs a lot of money to educate an IEP
kid because they typically it takes extra teacher time. A
lot of them have helpers and aids that are with
them in the classroom in the case studies I've looked
at in other states and I've been to some education conferences.
The first kids that leave the public school system to
go with a school choice system or IEP kids, they
(04:59):
go to place where they can get individualized tutoring, you know,
or small classes five or ten kids in a class
and they thrive, and guess what, the school they came
from also thrives because they're not having to deal with
the differences of a kid that's on the IEP plan.
So the ones that are more mainstream that learned about it,
You mean.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
That somebody who's dragging down the curve.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Yeah, I mean you typically have to pace your instruction
to the kid that's the slowest to come along, and
kids that have an IEP have some kind of a
learning difference or an issue that makes a little more
difficult for them. So when they're out of the class,
they're often this school trust option. They're thriving, and the
kids that are left behind have more money pupil and
more time from the teacher to excel.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
One of the slogans the anti amendment to people say
is well, you're just helping rich people. It's only rich
people who can afford to go to private schools. I
can tell you in my personal case, I paid my
own way from working. I mean I had jobs after
school and at school, which reduces the costs. I mean
that's part of it as well. People don't understand that,
(05:59):
but they think anybody who goes to private school is wealthy.
I'm one of fourteen children. We didn't have any money,
but I went away to college. I got a hug,
you know. So it's like a lot of the things
that are out there are nonsense. But you have to
push back against the notion that only rich people are
getting this.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Sure, well, I mean right now, rich people, affluent people
do have school choice because they pay for it themselves.
They pay taxes, and they have enough disposable income to
send a kid to private school. But guess what. The
kids that are really hurting, the kids that are really struggling,
that are in economically disadvantaged areas. They're the children of
single mothers. They don't have those options. That mother can't
quit her job in order to homeschool the child like
(06:38):
some suburban parents do. They shouldn't have the funds to
send them to a private school. And in certain parts
of the city, predominantly the West End, there are no
other educational choices. A parochial school shut down years ago.
There's a couple of tiny offerings, but there are no
private schools. You're that single mother is trapped either going
to that neighborhood school that is struggling. That are kids
(06:58):
not doing well at or maybe win in the lottery
and sending the kid across town somewhere to forty minutes
away to be what goes seol people they don't know.
So that's the people we're trying to help. We've got
an enormous education gap in this city especially. We've got
twenty seven percent of our kids are proficient at math,
thirty seven percent proficient at reading, and the gap between
(07:19):
black and white students is appalling. You know the black students.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Well, I just saw a report that said, oh, they've
closed that gap, it's right there now not so much.
Do you think that's misleading data that's being put out.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Yeah, twenty seven percent math proficiency for JCPS, fifteen percent
for blacks. That's a pretty big disparity. Yeah, thirty seven
percent reading proficiency. It's at twenty two percent for blacks.
So how do you how do we graduate eighty eight
percent when two thirds of the kids can't read and
do math. You know, that's kind of frightening to think
of it. I can't even read road signs, right as
a perspective, employer, if you got an eighteen year old,
(07:52):
they can't read the safety manual, can't read the warnings,
can't do math? What kind of a job are you
going to get? One thing I do agree with the
Lutz Governor Coleman about is if you look at fourth
grade statistics, and kids who can't read in the fourth
grade are more likely to be incarcerated than they are
to be employed by age eighteen. Right. She said that
we've got kids trapped on the school to prison pipeline
(08:13):
right now, and we need to get them off and
I think school choice is the way to do that,
because school choice can give them the opportunity to have
the funds to get a reading tutor, to have a
literacy program, to go to a cottage school or a
small school, or some other offering that gives kids the
individualized attention that they need to get around their learning differences.
And all the states that have tried this, they're wildly
(08:34):
successful with this. I think out of twenty nine case studies,
there was only one that didn't have significant success versus
what they were doing before.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Although you're saying forty eight states allow this, because you
know that North Kota and Kentucky are the only two
that doesn't.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
That's right. So it's being tried everywhere it's being successful everywhere.
I mean, what in the world are we holding on to.
We're spending a fortune. Our educational performance is always on
the bottom fourth of the nation. It's very expensive. We're
not getting the results. We're not producing the workforce that
we need. You can read, write, do math, and act
like a civilized human being in the workplace.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Governor Basheer tweeted, I think yesterday is obviously sending out
the same sort of messaging, saying, and I'm paraphrasing, you
can't take money away from public schools and then punish
them for failing. But none of that's happened yet. Yet
we are in a failing position already with the current system.
That's a challenge for me, right, And I think that's hyperbole.
(09:24):
And he's not doing the math right because it's all
about funding per student. If we have the same amount
of money and the same amount of students, you're not
reducing the funds per student. And school choice options always
or cheaper than public school options. Where's all this money
coming from? To slam Amendment too. I see commercials on
every TV channel all the time. Where's all that coming from?
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Some of it comes from the Teachers' Union. Some of
it comes from out of state causes. You know, a
monopoly is usually not a good thing. A monopoly in
education controlled by the government is a terrible thing because
they cling to that monopoly bitterly. The Teachers Union, for instance,
has donated two hundred thousand dollars to a Supreme Court race.
Why in the world, what are teachers you need to
(10:07):
donate to a Supreme Court race unless they're planning on
using the courts to circumvent the will of the legislature,
of the will of the people.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Interesting, But you guys, the Republicans in Kentucky have a
super majority, So why aren't you able to marshal in
the same amount or more funds to push back.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Yeah, I don't know what the exact levels of spending are.
I know I get a mailer at my house almost
every day advocating four Amendment too, And there are a
number of outside groups that are pushing that. I think
you'll see more pushing for it, but it's hard to
get past the noise. We've got school systems that are
breaking the law right now. They are using tax dollars
and tax platforms to advocate against Amendment two. We've had.
(10:43):
The Attorney General has called down a number of school
systems for doing that, sending emails to all our people
saying vote against Amendment two. That's flatly illegal and they
should be called on it. I think there should be
some charges for that because they keep doing it. And
so it's the people and the taxpayers versus this government
monopoly system that does does not want to be changed.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Yeah, and the election is getting so close it'll be
too late to get anything done about that. But yeah,
I've seen the squabbling about that, right well, Representative of Hodgson,
I appreciate your time and your input on that so
we could have a counterbalance to the conversation we had
the other day. Thank you, my sure well, very very
good to have you here. And I hope no other
of my family members borrow any live animals.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
As long as they returning real good. That's good.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
That is Representative John Hodgson District thirty six on behalf
of Amendment two in the upcoming election. Coming right back
on news Radio eight forty whas
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Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.