April 15, 2025 • 26 mins
Kentucky Senator Mitch McConnell dropped by to discuss the Trump tariffs, college athletics NIL parameters, how to support his friends trying to succeed him: Andy Barr & Daniel Cameron, and whether Kentucky still has power in Washington now that McConnell is no longer in a leadership role.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Always good to see you back in Louisville.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Yeah, you.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Showed up with the mayor this morning.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Yeah, I was getting a briefing on all of the storms.
It's been a heck of a few years and all
over the state cornadoes, floods. City of Mayfield was just
completely eliminated. They were on the way back, and I
(00:29):
think the mayor and the whole team are doing a
good job of getting ready to derry and we'll be
having a lot of guests.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
They called a lot of people out to help clean
up things, and so people just stay came out. It's
like come out, come out wherever you are. And people
showed up with rakes and shovels and bags, and then
we're just trying to get the place all spruced up.
But it's good to have you back home. I guess
you're here for an Easter break and then back to work.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Well, it's a very lively time.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
In Washington, it is. I'd like to ask you about
a couple of things that are going on right now. Yesterday,
the President of the United States mentioned he would have
Pam Bondi, the Attorney General, start looking into whether American
criminals could be housed in foreign prisons, sent to foreign prisons.
That doesn't sound constitutional? Am I forgetting my eighth grade Civics? Well?
Speaker 2 (01:24):
I think it's pretty clear the President wants to be
very aggressive here at the beginning of this term, and
much of what he wants to do will also be
decided by the courts. You know, do you have the
authority to do it or not? And until the courts speak,
(01:47):
I think the President will continue to be as aggressive
as he can be.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
That doesn't sound legal, though.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Well we'll find out. That's what the judiciary is for.
And there are lots of lawsuits with the country about
one thing or another that they're trying to accomplish.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
There's a man from Maryland, he's not from Maryland. He's
an illegal, if we're going to use that term, who
is now in a prison in l Salvador. That yesterday
the president of Al Salvador was here and he and
President Trump were discussing the concept of whether or not
to bring him back. Others say he's already been dedicated
(02:26):
or determined a foreigner, an illegal who is rightfully in prison.
The president of l Salvador says, I can't smuggle a
guy back into the United States. We're seeing really unprecedented
things happen.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
It's been lively, no question about it been lively. And
the example that you gave, that's another court decision.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Right.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
The president has most authority overseas, less authority here at home.
We know that, but how do you define that here?
You had a court order in a US court and
it is a kind of convoluted situation. So I think
(03:22):
the courts are going to be quite busy, not only
with that case, but with a lot of other cases.
Because President I'm sure he would be proud of the
fact that he's doing things that no one's ever done,
for example, taking a hatchet to the State Department, you know, right,
(03:48):
and that's something we didn't pass. So it'll be interesting
to see how that all plays out.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Doze in general obviously is downsizing government and is riling
a lot of people there. They're getting fired up. There
are protests everywhere. I want to know your overall take
on the imagery of the chainsaw taking it to governments
when Donald Trump's administration is saying that previous administrations have
not been able to do that, and he's going in
(04:18):
where the American people, a majority of the American people
want it to downside.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Yeah, well, you know, I think most Americans and this
is not a criticism, are not clear about where the
money is being spent. Three extremely popular programs, so security, Medicare,
(04:43):
and Medicaid make up enormous sense a piece of what
we spend every year, and we don't vote on that.
It's automatic. We call them entitlements because they've been authorized
and they are spent every year. The other big item
(05:07):
is defense, So what do we actually vote on that
every year? About twenty eight percent of what we spend.
So if you're not willing to look at the more
popular programs, you end up having to take an awful
lot out of that twenty eight percent, right, And I
(05:28):
know that's kind of a long answer, But to deal
with the deficit would require, I think, on a bipartisan basis,
accepting the notion that some kind of entitlement reform of
one kind or another's going to have to be done.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Let's get to tariffs. Of course, obviously people don't want
to look at their four on one case. I know
there's been some bounce back, but it does frighten people.
And you have said that you are you don't think
this is a great idea. But here we are, we
already swimming in those waters. So what now with this
whole tug of war with China.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Well, first of all, let me say I've said for years,
this is not a just a current thing. I've said
for years, I'm not a fan of tariffs. We've been
into the sort of minor league terrifights over bourbon. Bourbon
comes from Kentucky. Just the start of all this discussion
(06:34):
led the Canadian liquor stores to take the bourbon off
off the shelves, and the Europeans have also frequently liked
to get into fights with US over bourbon. They always
put that at the top of the list. So Senator
(06:57):
Rand Paul and I, for example, who typically have some
differences about how to approach things, agree that tariffs are
in fact at tax increase because that additional costs has
passed on ultimately just a consumer. And also it's hard
(07:20):
to figure out what an entirely American product is. You
take the Toyota, for example, ten thousand jobs in Kentucky.
They got parts in those Toyotas from Mexico, from Canada,
from Japan itself. So what's your definition of a it's
(07:44):
I'm just not a fan of tariffs.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Yeah, I know it's a convoluted thing, but really, isn't
it a chess match with China? Because there's other people
can manufacture. Americans want cheap goods, We'll just start getting
more from India, Pakistan, Vietnam, Cambodia, wherever it happens to be,
and take away business from China. Isn't that the hurt
we're trying to put on them.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Well, we have a lot of problems in China. Commerce
is not the only one. And in fact, if you
look at the national security issue today, China and Russia,
North Korea, Iran and Iran's proxies or sort of the
(08:31):
authoritarians in the world and the rest of us for
the most part are democracies. So here you have a
struggle for influence, both on the commercial side and on
the national security side, between authoritarian regimes and democratic regimes.
(08:55):
It's important for America, in my opinion, to continue to
be the leader of the good guys. I think that's
what we do very well, and I'm hopeful that we'll
quit picking fights with our allies and understand that people
(09:17):
like Vladimir Putin cannot be trusted and aren't going to
tell you the truth. And they've been blowing off the
President who's been trying to get into discussion with them
about solving the Ukrainian issue.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Should we keep our pedal to the metal in terms
of the Ukraine spending now, is it time to re
examine that? Or we're in the same spot we were
when this started, when Russian invading Ukraine.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Well, what we're spending in Ukraine is really quite small
compared to the overall national security expenditures. The Europeans are
actually doing more than we are. You've heard they aren't,
but they are factually doing more than we are, including
(10:07):
dealing with some refugees that left the country in the
midst of all this. I don't think we want at
the end of this conflict to have a headline that
says Russia won American laws. It has huge international implications
(10:29):
far beyond this invasion of Ukraine. So I think we
need to continue to help. We don't have any soldiers there.
We're helping them fight for their own independence by proxy. Yeah,
I mean, let me put it this way. Ron Reagan
(10:50):
would roll over in his grave if he thought that
Americans who are not willing to support people who were
fighting for their independence against Russia. I mean, my goodness,
I think that's an important investment. The rest of the
world is looking to us. By the way, what's happened
(11:14):
now is you have countries like South Korea, in Japan
and Australia coming to NATO meetings, which is about Europe.
Why they want to be part of this effort on
a multilateral basis to stand up to the Chinese and
the Russians.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
I want to give us some domestic things too. You're
no longer the leader. So is Kentucky still able to
punch above its weight without your muscle? For instance? Do
you still have the same office you had before? Does
the new leader have that? How does all that work?
Do you have to open your own car door? Do
you do people still holler at Do they send you
(11:56):
flowers and all that business? Or what's changed for you
since I stepped away?
Speaker 2 (12:01):
I ended up being the leader of my party in
the Center for eighteen years, which is longer than anybody
in American history. And I thought eighteen years was en up.
And so your question is what's it like now?
Speaker 1 (12:17):
That's right?
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Yeah, Well, the leader office I had two offices office
in the capital of the leader office with a set
of staff, and my regular office in a different building.
John Thune is now in the Leader's office with his
own leader staff, and he's, by the way, very capable.
(12:41):
And I have less responsibility for everybody else. And what
I'm doing with myself in these two years is concentrating
on defense and foreign policy because I think that's the
biggest issue going right now. And I'm chairman of the
(13:07):
appropriation subcommittee that funds the Defense Department, which is almost
almost a trillion dollar.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
Don't you also have to help find the person to
replace you? I mean, or do you stay away from
that out of it?
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Because I had two good friends running right Andy Barr,
and both of.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
Them, I'm sorry, I meant here to replace us.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Senator Oh, I'm not going to get into that. Kentuckians
can decide who they want to replace me.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
But those are both your buddies, Andy Barr Daniel Cameron.
I know going against Trump is like walking into a propeller,
and so they have to be careful about that. Are
you like kryptonite to those guys where you you're not
going to appear in photos with them?
Speaker 2 (13:55):
I don't think Kentucky voters needed any advice me. They
can make the decision about who they want to replace me.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
So you okay, So you won't.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Put it another way. I'm not going to get involved
in it until we have a nominee, and obviously I'm
going to support the Republican nominade.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
What about the Commonwealth of Kentucky. Though, back to the
original question, do we still have muscle? We have ran Paul.
We got Brett Guthrie in a prominent position. You know,
we know what our federal delegation is. But without Senator
McConnell the leadership role, how does that change the dynamics
for our little eight electoral votes.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Well, honestly, the answer to the question is my leaving
does leave us with less influence. That's just the way
it works. But you can't have any of these jobs forever.
I had it longer than most. I've been ended up
(14:57):
spending literally half my life in the Senate, so I've
had my time in the arena. The position Brett Guthrie
god is extremely important. The committee he heads in the
House has a lot of jurisdiction over things that are
(15:21):
important to Kentucky. So we won't be without influence. But honestly,
we won't have as much as we did.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
But you don't want to help in that centeration. Don't
think that's your place. But we you, the Republicans need
those votes. It's such a slim margin. Now you've got
to make sure that you hold that seat, your party
holds that seat in Kentucky.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
I sure hope. So yeah, Yeah, Kentucky's become pretty Republican.
That doesn't mean they won't ever elect a Democrat. We
have a Democrat mayor a governor, but Republican nominee whoever
that is ought to have a good chance of winning.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
You're connected to all those senators, I mean because of
that leadership all this time. Is there a quiet little
gathering of people who are talking about the post Trump era.
He's not going to be there forever either, just like
you talked about yourself. There's gone to be a new passage,
a new view for the Republican Party once Donald Trump's out.
(16:24):
I think that talk about a.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Third, but that's four years from now. He's just starting
his round.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
Yeah, but still there has to be strategy. Republicans have
been very good here in Kentucky strategizing about twenty years
down the road. I know there has to be some
thought process about a post Trump era. Do you not
participate in conversations like.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
That, No, because it's too far off in the future
and they're so dramatic changes. Well, thanks for the president
known for brags about is how flexible he is, so
things have changed very quickly. He's in the first couple
(17:08):
of months of his second term. I have not really
heard any discussion about what comes next.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
But you're the chief architect of his Supreme courts that
usually votes for him. I know there's a little dissent
now and again that.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
I think they followed the law. Yeah. I think the
decision I made to not allow President Obama to replace
Justice Kalia in the presidential election year is the right
thing to do for the country. Proud of it. And
I also was in a position to sheppard two more
(17:48):
Supreme Court justice through, both of which are controversially in
one way or another, and fifty three US Circuit Court
judges a step below the Supreme Court. I think changing
the court system is one of the most significant things
of my political career.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
There's no doubt about. It's a matter of how much
this administration acknowledges the judiciary versus just you know, sports
Earth is running down, mowing down a forest thing. We'll
get back to that later, we'll go to court. That's
kind of where we are right now.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
I think one of the things that the men and
women that we put on the courts during the first
Trump administration have in common is a desire to follow
the law as closely as we can, rather than sort
of making it up on the fly, like you were
(18:44):
another branch of Congress. And I think the founders expected
judges to be like umpires, not on either side calling
the balls and strikes based upon how things are written.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
You mentioned that the president's administration's early, but the twenty
twenty six elections aren't far away, And do you see
that as a litmus test of how to score the
success of this new administration? Will that Will there be
a sea change in twenty twenty six? How do you
see it?
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Well, that's what happened in twenty eighteen, the second half
of Trump's first term, and it's not unusual for presidents
not to have a good two year in election. I
think on the center side, our majority is pretty secure,
(19:41):
the House running all of them every two years does
change frequently and is really close. So I think the
outcome of the House next year will tell you how
popular the new administration is.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
OK, that makes sense. You had our coaches then the
other day for nil discussions. What's happening with nil? Has?
I know how much you love college football and college
sports in general. Have we blown up the golden goose? Is?
Is this a mess we can't undo? Now that you
saw that deal about the Tennessee quarterback walking away from
(20:19):
me all this other stuff is it is the the
horses are out of the bar now and there's just
no way to stop this insanity.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Yeah, it's a tough, tough problem. Uh. Some coaches are
quite effective with it, like our new coach at U
of L. I mean, he had a totally different team
than the one he inherited. So some of the other
(20:49):
famous older coaches said, heck with it, I'm not gonna
be a part of this. Nick Saban coach walked away.
What they would all like is to be able to
come to Congress, to have one standard for the entire country.
(21:14):
What I said too, by the way, we met with
the athletic directors and basketball coaches.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Yes, at UK and you I saw Josh Hurd, Mitch Barnhardt.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Yeah, Marpe. What we've been trying to get out of
them is what exactly do you want? And it's hard
to figure this out, even if you're trying to get
changed like the power conferences would like to have. And
(21:49):
then once we get that for sure, getting it through
Congress is not easy either, because there are a number
of Democrats, for example, who would like for the players
to be able to belong to the unions or sue
(22:10):
that would make the current situation worse. So to sum
it up, we're looking for specificity on what is it
that you think is the most important, and that's the
starting place to try to get it through Congress and
signed by the President. And that way you'd have the
(22:30):
same playing field countrywide, which is what I think all
the power for would want.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
But you can't put a dollar cap on it the
way they do in the NFL, because Alabama is going
to be roll Tide and War Eagle versus Rhode Island
or other states where they can't spend the same amount
of money.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Well, we'll see what they recommend. They might well recommend
as our cap.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Yeah, it'd be fascinating to see.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Yeah, I saw the tendency quarterback leaving because he wasn't
being paid.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Right, that's right. I'm thinking there will be a time
when we have a quarterback who's in the huddle and
he look over the side and say, I'll take a
million more before I run this play because I might
get hurt, and they give him a thumbs upper, thumbs down,
and then he quits.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
The best evidence that college football is a lot like
pro football is that Bill Belichick is going to North
Carolina after all these years of being a professional coach.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
All right, last thing for you, how are you situated
now in life? Without the leadership you know you talked about.
Kentucky doesn't have the same juice it had before. How
was it for you? You've been in power for forty years,
more than forty years, but it's a different deal. You're writing,
you're not the driver anymore so.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
But Terry, I'm not exactly without influence.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
I know that.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
I'm still I think most people would agree, one of
the most influential members of the Senate, and it was it
was time we all reach the point in life where
it's time just up aside.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
Why are you winking at me right now?
Speaker 2 (24:12):
You and I have not done that mine's coming to
but we've had a long game together.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
That's true.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
You hit the top about the same time.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
I was there in nineteen eighty four when President Ronald
Reagan was right there in the Higatt Regency right down
the street, and he introduced you as his good friend,
Mitch O'Donnell.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
That's right. That's how unknown I was when I started
running for county judge back when we used to have
a county judges. We had one event one night I
can remember when no one showed up. So I've had
every humbling experience you can imagine over the years.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Well, I really appreciate the time and having you drop
by again today. I know what a football fan you are.
But all these sports, I mean all of the sports
fans are just kind of hanging on right now trying
to see what's going to happen with nil. They're like
life costs a lot more, it just does. You can
blame it on whatever you want, but when it comes
to school saying, you know what, we could use a
(25:11):
fifty dollars, hundred dollars, two hundred and two thousand dollars
to help pay some guy run with a ball. It's
like that's a struggle for a lot of folks. So
it's interesting to see if you guys put together an
NIL package and see where that gets. Sporting America it
needs to get fixed, and if we can be a
(25:31):
part of that, I'll be involved in it in a
serious way.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
And I love, like everybody else does here college sports,
and I must confess I sort of lost interest in
you you help basketball for a while, but I'm my
interest is back, right, And Kelsey is a heck of
(25:59):
a heck of a phenomena.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
And the Louisville and Kentucky coaches like each other, which
is this is one of the best. This is like
a you know, a full on solar eclipse. It's just
such a rarity to see. But we're we're certainly in
interesting times around here.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Yeah, and Mark Pope is impressive as well. So look,
I think Kentucky's Kentucky Louisville for a few years was
not Louisville. But I think Louisville' is back and we're
going to be able to enjoy for quite a while.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
I hope now they're not taking him away. Pat Kelsey's
digging in. He's staying Senator McConnell. Great to see you,
good to be here during sort of visit Back in
a minute on news Radio eight forty w h A. S.
Always good to see you back in Louisville.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Yeah, you.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Showed up with the mayor this morning.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Yeah, I was getting a briefing on all of the storms.
It's been a heck of a few years and all
over the state cornadoes, floods. City of Mayfield was just
completely eliminated. They were on the way back, and I
(00:29):
think the mayor and the whole team are doing a
good job of getting ready to derry and we'll be
having a lot of guests.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
They called a lot of people out to help clean
up things, and so people just stay came out. It's
like come out, come out wherever you are. And people
showed up with rakes and shovels and bags, and then
we're just trying to get the place all spruced up.
But it's good to have you back home. I guess
you're here for an Easter break and then back to work.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Well, it's a very lively time.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
In Washington, it is. I'd like to ask you about
a couple of things that are going on right now. Yesterday,
the President of the United States mentioned he would have
Pam Bondi, the Attorney General, start looking into whether American
criminals could be housed in foreign prisons, sent to foreign prisons.
That doesn't sound constitutional? Am I forgetting my eighth grade Civics? Well?
Speaker 2 (01:24):
I think it's pretty clear the President wants to be
very aggressive here at the beginning of this term, and
much of what he wants to do will also be
decided by the courts. You know, do you have the
authority to do it or not? And until the courts speak,
(01:47):
I think the President will continue to be as aggressive
as he can be.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
That doesn't sound legal, though.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Well we'll find out. That's what the judiciary is for.
And there are lots of lawsuits with the country about
one thing or another that they're trying to accomplish.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
There's a man from Maryland, he's not from Maryland. He's
an illegal, if we're going to use that term, who
is now in a prison in l Salvador. That yesterday
the president of Al Salvador was here and he and
President Trump were discussing the concept of whether or not
to bring him back. Others say he's already been dedicated
(02:26):
or determined a foreigner, an illegal who is rightfully in prison.
The president of l Salvador says, I can't smuggle a
guy back into the United States. We're seeing really unprecedented
things happen.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
It's been lively, no question about it been lively. And
the example that you gave, that's another court decision.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Right.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
The president has most authority overseas, less authority here at home.
We know that, but how do you define that here?
You had a court order in a US court and
it is a kind of convoluted situation. So I think
(03:22):
the courts are going to be quite busy, not only
with that case, but with a lot of other cases.
Because President I'm sure he would be proud of the
fact that he's doing things that no one's ever done,
for example, taking a hatchet to the State Department, you know, right,
(03:48):
and that's something we didn't pass. So it'll be interesting
to see how that all plays out.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Doze in general obviously is downsizing government and is riling
a lot of people there. They're getting fired up. There
are protests everywhere. I want to know your overall take
on the imagery of the chainsaw taking it to governments
when Donald Trump's administration is saying that previous administrations have
not been able to do that, and he's going in
(04:18):
where the American people, a majority of the American people
want it to downside.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Yeah, well, you know, I think most Americans and this
is not a criticism, are not clear about where the
money is being spent. Three extremely popular programs, so security, Medicare,
(04:43):
and Medicaid make up enormous sense a piece of what
we spend every year, and we don't vote on that.
It's automatic. We call them entitlements because they've been authorized
and they are spent every year. The other big item
(05:07):
is defense, So what do we actually vote on that
every year? About twenty eight percent of what we spend.
So if you're not willing to look at the more
popular programs, you end up having to take an awful
lot out of that twenty eight percent, right, And I
(05:28):
know that's kind of a long answer, But to deal
with the deficit would require, I think, on a bipartisan basis,
accepting the notion that some kind of entitlement reform of
one kind or another's going to have to be done.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Let's get to tariffs. Of course, obviously people don't want
to look at their four on one case. I know
there's been some bounce back, but it does frighten people.
And you have said that you are you don't think
this is a great idea. But here we are, we
already swimming in those waters. So what now with this
whole tug of war with China.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Well, first of all, let me say I've said for years,
this is not a just a current thing. I've said
for years, I'm not a fan of tariffs. We've been
into the sort of minor league terrifights over bourbon. Bourbon
comes from Kentucky. Just the start of all this discussion
(06:34):
led the Canadian liquor stores to take the bourbon off
off the shelves, and the Europeans have also frequently liked
to get into fights with US over bourbon. They always
put that at the top of the list. So Senator
(06:57):
Rand Paul and I, for example, who typically have some
differences about how to approach things, agree that tariffs are
in fact at tax increase because that additional costs has
passed on ultimately just a consumer. And also it's hard
(07:20):
to figure out what an entirely American product is. You
take the Toyota, for example, ten thousand jobs in Kentucky.
They got parts in those Toyotas from Mexico, from Canada,
from Japan itself. So what's your definition of a it's
(07:44):
I'm just not a fan of tariffs.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Yeah, I know it's a convoluted thing, but really, isn't
it a chess match with China? Because there's other people
can manufacture. Americans want cheap goods, We'll just start getting
more from India, Pakistan, Vietnam, Cambodia, wherever it happens to be,
and take away business from China. Isn't that the hurt
we're trying to put on them.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Well, we have a lot of problems in China. Commerce
is not the only one. And in fact, if you
look at the national security issue today, China and Russia,
North Korea, Iran and Iran's proxies or sort of the
(08:31):
authoritarians in the world and the rest of us for
the most part are democracies. So here you have a
struggle for influence, both on the commercial side and on
the national security side, between authoritarian regimes and democratic regimes.
(08:55):
It's important for America, in my opinion, to continue to
be the leader of the good guys. I think that's
what we do very well, and I'm hopeful that we'll
quit picking fights with our allies and understand that people
(09:17):
like Vladimir Putin cannot be trusted and aren't going to
tell you the truth. And they've been blowing off the
President who's been trying to get into discussion with them
about solving the Ukrainian issue.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Should we keep our pedal to the metal in terms
of the Ukraine spending now, is it time to re
examine that? Or we're in the same spot we were
when this started, when Russian invading Ukraine.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Well, what we're spending in Ukraine is really quite small
compared to the overall national security expenditures. The Europeans are
actually doing more than we are. You've heard they aren't,
but they are factually doing more than we are, including
(10:07):
dealing with some refugees that left the country in the
midst of all this. I don't think we want at
the end of this conflict to have a headline that
says Russia won American laws. It has huge international implications
(10:29):
far beyond this invasion of Ukraine. So I think we
need to continue to help. We don't have any soldiers there.
We're helping them fight for their own independence by proxy. Yeah,
I mean, let me put it this way. Ron Reagan
(10:50):
would roll over in his grave if he thought that
Americans who are not willing to support people who were
fighting for their independence against Russia. I mean, my goodness,
I think that's an important investment. The rest of the
world is looking to us. By the way, what's happened
(11:14):
now is you have countries like South Korea, in Japan
and Australia coming to NATO meetings, which is about Europe.
Why they want to be part of this effort on
a multilateral basis to stand up to the Chinese and
the Russians.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
I want to give us some domestic things too. You're
no longer the leader. So is Kentucky still able to
punch above its weight without your muscle? For instance? Do
you still have the same office you had before? Does
the new leader have that? How does all that work?
Do you have to open your own car door? Do
you do people still holler at Do they send you
(11:56):
flowers and all that business? Or what's changed for you
since I stepped away?
Speaker 2 (12:01):
I ended up being the leader of my party in
the Center for eighteen years, which is longer than anybody
in American history. And I thought eighteen years was en up.
And so your question is what's it like now?
Speaker 1 (12:17):
That's right?
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Yeah, Well, the leader office I had two offices office
in the capital of the leader office with a set
of staff, and my regular office in a different building.
John Thune is now in the Leader's office with his
own leader staff, and he's, by the way, very capable.
(12:41):
And I have less responsibility for everybody else. And what
I'm doing with myself in these two years is concentrating
on defense and foreign policy because I think that's the
biggest issue going right now. And I'm chairman of the
(13:07):
appropriation subcommittee that funds the Defense Department, which is almost
almost a trillion dollar.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
Don't you also have to help find the person to
replace you? I mean, or do you stay away from
that out of it?
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Because I had two good friends running right Andy Barr,
and both of.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
Them, I'm sorry, I meant here to replace us.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Senator Oh, I'm not going to get into that. Kentuckians
can decide who they want to replace me.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
But those are both your buddies, Andy Barr Daniel Cameron.
I know going against Trump is like walking into a propeller,
and so they have to be careful about that. Are
you like kryptonite to those guys where you you're not
going to appear in photos with them?
Speaker 2 (13:55):
I don't think Kentucky voters needed any advice me. They
can make the decision about who they want to replace me.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
So you okay, So you won't.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Put it another way. I'm not going to get involved
in it until we have a nominee, and obviously I'm
going to support the Republican nominade.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
What about the Commonwealth of Kentucky. Though, back to the
original question, do we still have muscle? We have ran Paul.
We got Brett Guthrie in a prominent position. You know,
we know what our federal delegation is. But without Senator
McConnell the leadership role, how does that change the dynamics
for our little eight electoral votes.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Well, honestly, the answer to the question is my leaving
does leave us with less influence. That's just the way
it works. But you can't have any of these jobs forever.
I had it longer than most. I've been ended up
(14:57):
spending literally half my life in the Senate, so I've
had my time in the arena. The position Brett Guthrie
god is extremely important. The committee he heads in the
House has a lot of jurisdiction over things that are
(15:21):
important to Kentucky. So we won't be without influence. But honestly,
we won't have as much as we did.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
But you don't want to help in that centeration. Don't
think that's your place. But we you, the Republicans need
those votes. It's such a slim margin. Now you've got
to make sure that you hold that seat, your party
holds that seat in Kentucky.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
I sure hope. So yeah, Yeah, Kentucky's become pretty Republican.
That doesn't mean they won't ever elect a Democrat. We
have a Democrat mayor a governor, but Republican nominee whoever
that is ought to have a good chance of winning.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
You're connected to all those senators, I mean because of
that leadership all this time. Is there a quiet little
gathering of people who are talking about the post Trump era.
He's not going to be there forever either, just like
you talked about yourself. There's gone to be a new passage,
a new view for the Republican Party once Donald Trump's out.
(16:24):
I think that talk about a.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Third, but that's four years from now. He's just starting
his round.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
Yeah, but still there has to be strategy. Republicans have
been very good here in Kentucky strategizing about twenty years
down the road. I know there has to be some
thought process about a post Trump era. Do you not
participate in conversations like.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
That, No, because it's too far off in the future
and they're so dramatic changes. Well, thanks for the president
known for brags about is how flexible he is, so
things have changed very quickly. He's in the first couple
(17:08):
of months of his second term. I have not really
heard any discussion about what comes next.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
But you're the chief architect of his Supreme courts that
usually votes for him. I know there's a little dissent
now and again that.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
I think they followed the law. Yeah. I think the
decision I made to not allow President Obama to replace
Justice Kalia in the presidential election year is the right
thing to do for the country. Proud of it. And
I also was in a position to sheppard two more
(17:48):
Supreme Court justice through, both of which are controversially in
one way or another, and fifty three US Circuit Court
judges a step below the Supreme Court. I think changing
the court system is one of the most significant things
of my political career.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
There's no doubt about. It's a matter of how much
this administration acknowledges the judiciary versus just you know, sports
Earth is running down, mowing down a forest thing. We'll
get back to that later, we'll go to court. That's
kind of where we are right now.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
I think one of the things that the men and
women that we put on the courts during the first
Trump administration have in common is a desire to follow
the law as closely as we can, rather than sort
of making it up on the fly, like you were
(18:44):
another branch of Congress. And I think the founders expected
judges to be like umpires, not on either side calling
the balls and strikes based upon how things are written.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
You mentioned that the president's administration's early, but the twenty
twenty six elections aren't far away, And do you see
that as a litmus test of how to score the
success of this new administration? Will that Will there be
a sea change in twenty twenty six? How do you
see it?
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Well, that's what happened in twenty eighteen, the second half
of Trump's first term, and it's not unusual for presidents
not to have a good two year in election. I
think on the center side, our majority is pretty secure,
(19:41):
the House running all of them every two years does
change frequently and is really close. So I think the
outcome of the House next year will tell you how
popular the new administration is.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
OK, that makes sense. You had our coaches then the
other day for nil discussions. What's happening with nil? Has?
I know how much you love college football and college
sports in general. Have we blown up the golden goose? Is?
Is this a mess we can't undo? Now that you
saw that deal about the Tennessee quarterback walking away from
(20:19):
me all this other stuff is it is the the
horses are out of the bar now and there's just
no way to stop this insanity.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Yeah, it's a tough, tough problem. Uh. Some coaches are
quite effective with it, like our new coach at U
of L. I mean, he had a totally different team
than the one he inherited. So some of the other
(20:49):
famous older coaches said, heck with it, I'm not gonna
be a part of this. Nick Saban coach walked away.
What they would all like is to be able to
come to Congress, to have one standard for the entire country.
(21:14):
What I said too, by the way, we met with
the athletic directors and basketball coaches.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Yes, at UK and you I saw Josh Hurd, Mitch Barnhardt.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Yeah, Marpe. What we've been trying to get out of
them is what exactly do you want? And it's hard
to figure this out, even if you're trying to get
changed like the power conferences would like to have. And
(21:49):
then once we get that for sure, getting it through
Congress is not easy either, because there are a number
of Democrats, for example, who would like for the players
to be able to belong to the unions or sue
(22:10):
that would make the current situation worse. So to sum
it up, we're looking for specificity on what is it
that you think is the most important, and that's the
starting place to try to get it through Congress and
signed by the President. And that way you'd have the
(22:30):
same playing field countrywide, which is what I think all
the power for would want.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
But you can't put a dollar cap on it the
way they do in the NFL, because Alabama is going
to be roll Tide and War Eagle versus Rhode Island
or other states where they can't spend the same amount
of money.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Well, we'll see what they recommend. They might well recommend
as our cap.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Yeah, it'd be fascinating to see.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Yeah, I saw the tendency quarterback leaving because he wasn't
being paid.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Right, that's right. I'm thinking there will be a time
when we have a quarterback who's in the huddle and
he look over the side and say, I'll take a
million more before I run this play because I might
get hurt, and they give him a thumbs upper, thumbs down,
and then he quits.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
The best evidence that college football is a lot like
pro football is that Bill Belichick is going to North
Carolina after all these years of being a professional coach.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
All right, last thing for you, how are you situated
now in life? Without the leadership you know you talked about.
Kentucky doesn't have the same juice it had before. How
was it for you? You've been in power for forty years,
more than forty years, but it's a different deal. You're writing,
you're not the driver anymore so.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
But Terry, I'm not exactly without influence.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
I know that.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
I'm still I think most people would agree, one of
the most influential members of the Senate, and it was it
was time we all reach the point in life where
it's time just up aside.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
Why are you winking at me right now?
Speaker 2 (24:12):
You and I have not done that mine's coming to
but we've had a long game together.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
That's true.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
You hit the top about the same time.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
I was there in nineteen eighty four when President Ronald
Reagan was right there in the Higatt Regency right down
the street, and he introduced you as his good friend,
Mitch O'Donnell.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
That's right. That's how unknown I was when I started
running for county judge back when we used to have
a county judges. We had one event one night I
can remember when no one showed up. So I've had
every humbling experience you can imagine over the years.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Well, I really appreciate the time and having you drop
by again today. I know what a football fan you are.
But all these sports, I mean all of the sports
fans are just kind of hanging on right now trying
to see what's going to happen with nil. They're like
life costs a lot more, it just does. You can
blame it on whatever you want, but when it comes
to school saying, you know what, we could use a
(25:11):
fifty dollars, hundred dollars, two hundred and two thousand dollars
to help pay some guy run with a ball. It's
like that's a struggle for a lot of folks. So
it's interesting to see if you guys put together an
NIL package and see where that gets. Sporting America it
needs to get fixed, and if we can be a
(25:31):
part of that, I'll be involved in it in a
serious way.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
And I love, like everybody else does here college sports,
and I must confess I sort of lost interest in
you you help basketball for a while, but I'm my
interest is back, right, And Kelsey is a heck of
(25:59):
a heck of a phenomena.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
And the Louisville and Kentucky coaches like each other, which
is this is one of the best. This is like
a you know, a full on solar eclipse. It's just
such a rarity to see. But we're we're certainly in
interesting times around here.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Yeah, and Mark Pope is impressive as well. So look,
I think Kentucky's Kentucky Louisville for a few years was
not Louisville. But I think Louisville' is back and we're
going to be able to enjoy for quite a while.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
I hope now they're not taking him away. Pat Kelsey's
digging in. He's staying Senator McConnell. Great to see you,
good to be here during sort of visit Back in
a minute on news Radio eight forty w h A. S.
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