#518 - Brother Ali

Interview with Brother Ali on The Bootleg Kev Podcast.

Full video version of the episode is available on YouTube!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Peace and love. This is brother a Lei checking out
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Speaker 2 (00:03):
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(00:25):
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Speaker 3 (00:47):
Let's get into the next one right now. Come on,
Bootleg cam Podcast special guests in here, Brother Ali the Legend.
Good to see you, man.

Speaker 1 (00:58):
I'm happy to be with you. Man.

Speaker 3 (00:59):
Thank you for doing yes, sir for.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
People who don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:01):
I mean I interviewed you one time backstage after your tour.
You and Evidence were on tour YEP in Boise, Idaho
in two thousand and nine or ten?

Speaker 1 (01:12):
What year?

Speaker 3 (01:12):
What of that been?

Speaker 1 (01:13):
That was two thousand and nine and Evidence was just
coming over to Rhyme Sayers And that was an amazing run.
Every show sold out, fifty shows in sixty days, all
of them sold out. Yeah, that was a good time,
had crazy times.

Speaker 3 (01:25):
Man. It's it's wild too, because I feel like, what,
oh you want to put you want to down? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:34):
Down, got it?

Speaker 3 (01:36):
Got it? Got it?

Speaker 1 (01:36):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:37):
How do you feel, man, because obviously, you know, you've
had an amazing career as an independent artist somebody who
you know, I guess would be considered quote unquote underground.
When I was growing up, we had underground hip hop. Yeah,
the game has changed a lot, and for you kind

(01:58):
of being like an OG at this point, somebody who's
kind of had a bunch of different errors of your
own career, How do you feel, just like with today's
climate in terms of like being an independent artist and
making the kind of music that is not low hanging fruit,
if you will.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
Yeah, it's really challenging, you know, but it's always been challenging.
Like that's part of the fun of it, and that's
part of the freedom of it. It's like, man, I'm
going to make music about my secrets and you're not
supposed to really do that. You know, I'm going to
make secret music about things that aren't what everybody wants
to necessarily hear right now, but there's something inside me

(02:36):
that makes it. This is very true what I'm going
to say, and to make the music that we want
to make. And you know, if you're able to, then
the struggle is to find the people that want to
hear that secret and want to celebrate whatever that is.
So and I mean, then that's true for everybody across
the board. It's no different than like, you know, kids
in New York that are caught up in like neighborhood

(02:58):
beef and it's like, no, this is how we really live,
and like, yeah, we're rough around the edges and we're violent,
that's how we you know what I mean. And some
of us are on drugs and whatever. But there's a
certain like true lived human experience that they're putting in
their music. And when it first happens, people are like, uh,
I don't what is this? Their community right away is
going to be like, yes, somebody's speaking for me. It's

(03:21):
not easy living like this, you know what I mean?
Everybody has something like that. And then once that actually
starts to catch on the artists, once they get that space,
they start to say more and we get a window
into their world and we start getting contacts and then
it makes sense. But you have to fight, and that's
part of the beautiful struggle of it all. So you know,

(03:43):
there was a period when we first came out where
it's like when you said there was the underground thing.
So when Papen Big died, it was like, okay, these
are the first time the most respectable MC's, the most
respected mcs in the culture were also crossover mainstream. It
wasn't never like that before, Like we all love Tone
and Young MC. They were never the top tier MC school,

(04:03):
Yeah exactly. So you know, the other people had to fight.
So then it was a weird thing that happened where
all the great MC's were like, oh, we can be mainstream.
And so for people where this was always a counterculture thing,
it's just like, wait, what part is this? What part
are we just so we're just like jumping in bed
with the oppressors now because we because you can get

(04:24):
rich doing it. That's strange to a lot of us.
And so there was like a whole movement of most
Death and the Roots.

Speaker 3 (04:31):
And the whole rockets hair, the roots hair. Yeah, yeah,
definitely Common early Common.

Speaker 1 (04:36):
Shit, absolutely and you know Common's music is still that
way dilated, you know, yeah, yeah, definitely dilated. People's was
a huge part of that, and M F. Doom and
Little Brother and like there's this like this whole thing,
and we in a lot of ways were saying, like, Okay,
the music industry has never been for us, so we're
gonna go do our own thing. So you know what

(04:56):
we did at Rhyme Shares and in Minneapolis and the
mid we was to start going to all kinds of
places where they never had hip hop before and like
you know, going in and performing and you know, word
of mouth and all that stuff. And then just every era,
we've had to figure out what's the space that we
can authentically engage. So you know, it was Napster and

(05:20):
all that, and then it was MySpace and all that,
and then it was the blogs and all that, and
now with social media and so it's always a tremendous challenge,
but that's part of the freedom of it all for sure.

Speaker 3 (05:31):
Yeah, I think too, like we're kind of in this
weird space, which is positive where I think somehow this
Kendrick Lamar beef has like brought like attention to lyricism
again in a way that it might have been missing
for however you feel about the beef, But I feel
like people were paying attention to like bars again, which

(05:52):
I feel like had been kind of missing for a while.
And then you got to go, like Dochi who wins
best rap album? Her album was incredible. I feel like
there might be a page being turned where people want
more substance in their music and maybe more you know,
I feel like there might be an appetite for that
because we've had I mean, we're going on damn near
ten years of it being very like you know, like
you said, we had Biggie, we had even Nas, you know,

(06:16):
like you know, obviously Kendrick Cole all those guys are
very high, high frequency artists. But I feel like, you know,
in terms of what the kids are looking for, Like,
my son is eleven, and he's like in the like
rap music that I wouldn't think eleven year oldl be into. Yeah,
which is a good thing, you know, because that's what
I was into when I was eleven, you know. So
I think I think I think there's a there's a
culture shift happening. I hope so especially with just the

(06:38):
younger because obviously guys like me and you know my age,
we're gonna listen, We're gonna listen to. But it's like,
what are the thirteen fourteen year olds listening to, you know, yeah,
and what are they kind of inputting? Is it like
op killing music or is it you know, Kendrick, you know,
like and it's jope to see like Kendrick getting like
I guess that because you know, now you've got people
diving into Pimpa Butterfly, yeah, you know.

Speaker 1 (06:58):
Yeah, So we just put it on my It was
number nine on the Hip Hop iTunes chart, and everything
else in the top ten was Glorilla. It was like
one through eight was Kendrick was like different Kendrick albums,
and it's like, oh, okay, those are people that saw
him on the super Bowl. And I think it was
like a lot of like middle white America that was
like Kendrick Lamar gentleman seems to have something to say.

(07:19):
He might be as good as Eminem. Yeah, you know
what I mean.

Speaker 3 (07:21):
And then Glorilla and then like me in the middle
of it, me just chilling at number nine.

Speaker 1 (07:26):
It's weird.

Speaker 2 (07:27):
Men.

Speaker 1 (07:27):
So the Muslims call this realm the Dunya. It was
like we were somewhere before we were here, and that
was all true and beautiful. That's not where we are now.
And then after this we have the life of the grave,
We've got the judgment, we got the afterlife. But this
place is a mixture of good and bad. It's a
mixture of true and false. It's a mixture of things
change and they say the same and everything is that way,

(07:50):
you know what I mean. So, yeah, I love Kendrick obviously,
Like you know what I mean. I met Kendrick when
he was coming up and he was like yo, like
we were you know, And I love Kendrick. It's also
true that, you know, historically, white America has always accepted
certain things, like all the culture comes from black for people,

(08:12):
and all the cultural genius, all the culture export everything.
But it's like there are some things that are not accepted.
There are some things that are accepted. There are some
things that are celebrated, and then there are some things
that are mega celebrated. A critique what's not accepted is
a critique of the power structure. So you know, what
is accepted is just cultural genius that seems to not

(08:36):
be harming it.

Speaker 3 (08:37):
Yeah, that's not like stirring the pot of too much.
You know.

Speaker 1 (08:39):
What's always celebrated is black people fighting each other, especially
great black people destroying each other. So that's not Kendrick's fault,
you know what I mean. And that's and people who
aren't black. Is like, there are certain conversations. It's like
I don't have an opinion about that, you know what
I mean, It's not my.

Speaker 3 (08:56):
Place to have it.

Speaker 1 (08:57):
But what I do know is what the white mainstream
power structure does, which is they love to celebrate powerful
black men destroying each other. You know what I mean,
Because I mean Kendrick's last album, there's so much to
break down.

Speaker 3 (09:09):
Oh yeah, I mean, it's it's a real like think
piece on like self reflection, mental help, like so much,
and it went over everybody's head and it wasn't celebrated
in the same way.

Speaker 1 (09:19):
Now it's celebrated on a certain level. I mean, he
did get a Politzer Prize in terms of culture, like
hours and hours of people breaking down on YouTube every
possible triple entendra of a Kendrick. And then for black women,
it's everybody's right decision to do whatever they want with
their image and their body and everything. But black women
don't really get celebrated unless they're like.

Speaker 3 (09:41):
Rhap City is not going to be celebrated like sexy
red too much close right, too black, too black, too strong,
too much close, little, too dignified.

Speaker 1 (09:51):
You gotta be if you're a black woman. For the
mainstream to accept you, we have to have sexual access
to you because we used to own you, you know
what I'm saying. So even be been married to Jay
Z for twenty years, you still got to be in
your underwear otherwise you're not going to bank it.

Speaker 3 (10:06):
That's why I was good to see Rhapsody win a
Grammy this year. Man, Look, I felt like I want
a Grammy. First Killer Mike won it. Oh when Killer
Mike won it, I.

Speaker 1 (10:14):
Was like, yeah, man, you know, killing Mike at LP
is like for somebody like me. So that's our era.
Those guys that came up.

Speaker 3 (10:21):
When we came up and they just did what they've
always done.

Speaker 1 (10:24):
There was zero according this, there was zero.

Speaker 3 (10:27):
Is like, man, it's also just good to know, like
for like aging hip hop, Its like it's good to
know I'm not a hater a hundred percent, Like I'm
happy when somebody succeeds being true. Yeah. When Killer Mike won,
I was it was to me because I mean he
had the album of the Year. I'm like, yes, he
I'm just glad they got it right. He wanted he
wanted it, he said it. When he came in, it
was like Babe Ruth or whoever pointing into the thing

(10:49):
or Muhammad Ali and what round I'm gonn knock him
out in he came out, he said.

Speaker 1 (10:52):
I want the album off the year, my mama, dad,
And it's just like, yeah, man, get that album of
the year man. Yeah, beautiful so rahapsity man, Like she's amazing.

Speaker 3 (11:02):
Man, She's incredible. Yeah, it's been fun you're bringing up
the Super Bowl thing and just some of the it
has been funny to watch like the far Rights, like
inner conflict on how they feel about Kendrick's halftime show,
because I've seen them be like.

Speaker 1 (11:23):
Well it was patriotic, you know, it wasn't woke. And
then the other part we're like, yo, there wasn't any
white people. It was just so funny.

Speaker 3 (11:31):
If you look at the twitter, like back and forth,
it's so funny, like they don't know what to think
of the halftime show, And to me, that's what's so
brilliant about Like however that halftime show played out, was
like no one's too sure on like some people think
they got to figure it out, right.

Speaker 1 (11:49):
Yeah, I was just happy to see Kendrick be a
free black man that expressed what he wanted to express.

Speaker 3 (11:55):
Like Samuel Jackson was like, all of you, you can have
a story in the halftime show. It's like, yes, it was.
It was amazing.

Speaker 1 (12:01):
Yeah. And then also that it was real art, yes,
like art, that was art, Like you know what I mean,
there's no denying the fact that you know, I've got
my own opinion. We all have opinions, but I'm saying, like, man,
that was him saying what he wanted to say, making
the statement he wanted to make. He made it in
a grand way that was fitting for that stage. But
it was it was art art man, Like, yeah, so

(12:24):
those are those are all amazing things. And that's why
I say, like the Dunya is always good and bad.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Speaker 3 (12:32):
You know, So talk to me. Uh you left Rhyme
Sayers a few years ago? Was it?

Speaker 1 (12:39):
I went independent four years ago? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (12:43):
What?

Speaker 3 (12:43):
Obviously? You you know brother Ali and Rhyme Sais, you
guys are very synonymous. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:48):
I was a company man. They talking about drinking the
kool aid. I was the kool aid. I was busting
through the wall like with the kool aid out. Oh yeah,
because I love those people.

Speaker 3 (12:55):
I mean love. Yeah. Rhyme Saiers is obviously, you know,
one of the craziest success stories. And when it comes
to just an independent hip hop label, like fuck man,
the atmosphere yourself, I mean, the festivals were crazy. What
for you was was the main? You know, why did
you break away and decide to do your own things? Man?

Speaker 1 (13:11):
It's just you know, you grow and you start to
have your own ways that you the more you learn,
the more you have certain things that you want to
do and ways that you want to do things, and
more so just like how you want to feel. And
you know, I realized that the things that I wanted
to do, like I've grown as a person and like

(13:32):
what I offer the world, So like, not only do
I do these like sold out tours across the country,
I also delivered the Nobel Peace Prize form like keynote
address at the Nobel Peace Prize. Wow, I've like lectured
at Harvard and Princeton, you know what I mean. I
also am a like a like I have leader in
a Muslim community. I also want to write and do

(13:53):
podcasts and all these kind of things. And then also
I want, like I said, I want things to feel
a certain way, and I just realized, like the things
that I want to do, for them to build those,
it wouldn't even be responsible for them to build those
into that label because it would just be me. Like
the things that I was requiring was that. And then
also there was also some you know, when you're building something,

(14:15):
as you go, you have certain ideas about what this
is and things like that, and so you know, I
discovered over time they're like, oh, I don't own this
label and I don't have really a vote in it.
It's not mine. I always kind of felt like it
was mine.

Speaker 3 (14:32):
Even though you kind of felt that way because you
were there, you know, because we all love each other
and we're all family. But when it really comes to
the decisions that are made, when it really comes to
the moves that are made, when it really comes to
you know, even things like hey, I don't think this
particular situation is working. This particular situation is not working
for me. There were years where it did not work
for me and I was in a bad space, and

(14:54):
what I would have needed to do would be to
ask them to basically develop new departments just for me.

Speaker 1 (15:00):
And to do. And it's like that's at a certain point,
like I went from saying like, hey, we're all family,
let's work this out to like I'm just upset and
there's nothing I can do about it, So like why.

Speaker 3 (15:13):
Build up that resentment?

Speaker 1 (15:16):
Yeah, so it's like, you know what, let me take
the ultimate lesson from all of you that have invested
so much in me and gained a lot from me too. Sure,
everything I did was was very successful and nothing ever
lost money. Everything I did was successful there, so it's
like this was a great run together. The main thing
that I can learn from you is that what you

(15:36):
did is when you wanted things to be a certain way,
you built something that was yours. So it hurt to
do that, you know, because there's no scandal, there's no beef.
Still love everybody, you know. But to step away, Now,
what was beautiful is that right away when I did that,
I started my podcast. Slug came out to one of
the shows so we could do a podcast together on

(15:58):
stage immediately, like my first time back out after stepping away.
And then me and Aunt just made this album together
and he came on tour with me in between Atmosphere tours,
like instead of going home for five weeks, he came
on tour with me. So it's like, man, the music
is true, the love is true, the business is the
corniest part of it. And so the business wasn't working.

(16:19):
So now I'm doing something that does work, Like now
I'm healthy, I'm well, you know what I'm saying. So
I was terrified to do that, and I mourned it
like I mourned it like a death because that's where
I became me. I'm part They're part of me becoming me,
and I'm part of them becoming them. And so to
step away business wise, the main concern is like can

(16:42):
we keep the friendships intact and obviously that's happened for
the most part. Yeah, there's a couple of people that,
you know, there's a few situations that are like, you know,
we haven't really got back on the same page yet.
But those things take time, for sure.

Speaker 3 (16:57):
Yeah. Yeah, So with anything you're handling, there's you know,
you gotta let stuff settle.

Speaker 1 (17:01):
But those people are good people, so you know. Yeah, seen,
Bay and me are really dear friends. And he opened
your album. Yeah, and he came to me and said,
we're thinking about doing the Black Star vinyl on rhyme sayers.
I know that you used to be there and you're
not anymore. Is there anything you want to tell me?
I said. Those people are honest people, but don't assume anything.
That's the only thing. If you want to know something,

(17:23):
ask it. If you assume something, asked directly. But they
will never cheat you. They will never lie to you.
They managed Doom's affairs, which weren't or it wasn't easy.
Are they still doing that? Yes, Yes, Doom was happy
with them. His wife is, as far as I understand,
is happy with you.

Speaker 3 (17:38):
I think they're they're like his licensing and everything. They're manager.

Speaker 1 (17:41):
Yes, yeah, they're not there's there's no there's nothing. People
want there to be a scandal, you know what I'm saying,
And it's like, sorry, I can't do that. Sometimes you
just grow.

Speaker 3 (17:51):
I mean like when you think of Rhyme Saiers, I
mean obviously they give Atmosphere, but then I think you're
the flag bearer of the company for.

Speaker 1 (17:58):
And in the more traditional space, is I'm the more known.

Speaker 3 (18:01):
Right, especially with the label, Like I think of Rhymes Sties,
I think of you, you know for sure?

Speaker 1 (18:06):
Yeah? And I mean you know, so Atmosphere built their
own world completely separate, which is what's so amazing. No,
well like separate from like within hip hop. So like
Tech nine and Rhymes Staries did an atmosphere. Both were
like nobody except us, very build my own, very on
their own.

Speaker 3 (18:21):
That's that's a good Obviously different sonically, but very similar
in terms of their approach to the industry and hip hop.

Speaker 1 (18:27):
Yes, and they built their own worlds. I'm not opening
for people. No, the people can open for me. I
don't open for people. I do my own show. It's
Atmosphere show. It's a Tech nine show. And I learned
a lot from that. But that's what they built but
when I came along, I mean the you know, Public
Enemy and Rock Kim took me on tour, ghost Face
took me on tour, jiz It took me on tour.

(18:49):
Brand Nubian took me on tour. Big Daddy Kane took
me on tour. I was working with you know, Joe
Budden and like so, I was in a I was
out of our early roster. I was the one was
known in hip hop spaces.

Speaker 3 (19:01):
Yeah you were working Yeah, yeah, you were, like you
said you were in that. I just remember one of
my favorite records ever was the record that you Freeway
and Jake One did The Truth, which was so crazy.
I hadn't I don't know if you ever saw I
had Nipsey Hustle freestyle over that beating Oh yes, yes.

Speaker 1 (19:18):
Yeah, yeah, Rest in peace, nip I was just with
some people yesterday for you.

Speaker 3 (19:24):
Man, I want to I want to talk to you
about obviously being Muslim in the music industry. You know,
I feel like we're in a really really strange place
society wise, where you can't really be too honest about
what's happening in the world. Uh. And you know, I've

(19:44):
used my platform to be as honest as possible, you know,
in terms.

Speaker 1 (19:47):
Of what do you mean, because I'm a I'm gonna
take your lead on what we're saying. What I'm saying,
you know, because I'll say, I'll say a lot, but
I want to be respectful.

Speaker 3 (19:54):
Well, I'm talking about in terms of what's happening in
Gaza in the West Bank, and uh, you know, you
have a situation where you can't, necessarily, like I said,
be too honest about certain what It's almost like you're
seeing with your own eyes what's happening. But if you
call it what it is, you know, you you there's
labels that can put on your lack anti Semitic, you

(20:14):
know what.

Speaker 1 (20:14):
I mean, My man, there's go ahead, go ahead, man,
go ahead. Brothers.

Speaker 3 (20:18):
Well, I feel like it's like it's interesting to me
that like we live in a space where two things
can't beat you at the same time. It's like, even
if you're a Zionist, whatever, cool, but you can't not
be honest about what's happening at the same Like it's
almost like those two things are exclusive to each other.
However you feel about Zionism or whatever the case is.

(20:38):
But like, I have friends in my life who are Jewish,
who are Zionists, but also are very honest about there
being a genocide and ethnic cleansing and what's happening in
the West Bank is super fucked. But in the music industry,
you know, I haven't seen anyone necessarily on the super
commercial side outside of Maclamore Lannie. You know, there's not

(21:03):
really a lot of big artist kind of speaking out
like I feel like that'd be none, that'd be none. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:11):
So one of the things that's you know, somebody I
was just with Gabriel Tiodro shout out to him. I
think he was quoting somebody, but he said, so part
of what we're talking about with this Kendrick thing is
he can call Drake a colonizer and that's celebrated, right,
But where's the part where Benjamin Nett and Yahoo is
a war criminal. Where's the part where because the hip
hop we come from is it's like there was public

(21:31):
in peace, the resident I'm President pulling out my ray gun,
you know, like there was very direct like they're the enemy.
Like what we come from is they're banging on the system.
They're banging on white supremacy, they're banging on colonialism, they're
banging on. Yeah, man, and what you say is completely true.
And so yeah, last year I made an album with

(21:52):
a Jewish anti Zionist producer named Unjusts. He's done on
hieroglyphics and he's amazing and he's also an animator. Illus
we made a beautiful album called Love and Service. The
whole thing is really beautiful.

Speaker 3 (22:07):
You know.

Speaker 1 (22:07):
When we got to the end of the project was
right when the big Day in October happened, and we said, man,
we knew that we had this in common. We knew
it was a Muslim and a Jewish guy, and I mean,
he's a Jewish guy, got the beard, went to birthright,
mirrored a Jewish woman, he's a Jewish man, he's anti Zionist.
He's also very you know, and we knew that we
had this in common, but it was like not real.

(22:29):
It was just kind of a detail. We don't think
we're making music.

Speaker 3 (22:31):
Yeah, Like it was like, yeah, we're making music. Is
we're making music. And this also is like a cool tidbit. Hey,
so Muslim, you're Jewish. When that happened, that makes it
way a whole other. It's like, oh, this just took
a different turn. So we made a song called the Collapse, you.

Speaker 1 (22:45):
Know, and he animated it and he animated some stuff
he went in. And I respect people that critique their
own community, especially if you come from the people that
are in power with the money and the guns. So
people see the way that I talk about whiteness, and
they're like, well, you're the whitest guy ever, you know
what I mean. That's what Chappelle always says. Brother is

(23:05):
the whitest of all the whites. He's a white man
and he's out bino. God can't get much whiter than that.

Speaker 3 (23:11):
But somehow the blackest mother for God, Pale Mooney, he said.

Speaker 1 (23:15):
But that's funny. But it's like, man, I respect that.
I respect minister Farakhon, Minister Farakhan. Most of what he's
talking about and critiques is telling black people how to
regain greatness.

Speaker 3 (23:27):
Yeah. I just had a conversation with you know who
nineteen Keys is. Of course, So me and nineteen Keys
had a three hour interview a couple of weeks ago,
and I mean it's he's like, yo, save yourself.

Speaker 1 (23:37):
That's the thing.

Speaker 3 (23:38):
It's like, yo, like you know, if there's anything that
like this last political psychle however you feel about who
won and whatever. It's like, Yo, the Nigerian president came
out and said something that nineteen Keys pointed out, and
he was like they were talking about cutting cutting aid
from the US to there, and the Nigerian president was like,
why are we worried about this, Like we're Nigeria, Like yeah,

(24:00):
we got us, Like let's not depend on the US.
And I think metaphorically that's you know what nineteen Keys
has been saying for a while, like, Yo, we gotta,
we gotta we had our own infrastructure.

Speaker 1 (24:12):
I mean, that's Elijah Muhamma's message, that's Marcus Garvey's message.
That's you know. And those aren't those aren't the figures
that get celebrated, but those are folks that are those
So those great leaders are deeply critical of within the community,
like we got it to get it together, you know
what I mean. But for a Jewish person or for
a white person to say like, okay, we have an
added thing because as a as a as a group,

(24:37):
we have the power and the guns and the money
and the force and the might. So you have to
be particularly but there but a voice from within celebrate
like talking about taking self to account like we could
do better than this. We have to be better than this.
You know, uh, those you will not be appreciated for that.
So we put this album out, and I'm telling you

(24:57):
it got buried you when you saw me. You know,
I've always done one hundred and fifty plus shows a
year LA and for a calendar year, I had not
one show, wow, not one paid gig for a year.
My booking agent, who's a Jewish lady, couldn't get me
a single paid show for a full year. Even during
the pandemic. I performed in parking lots with people in

(25:20):
their cars, and Dave Chappelle had us do this thing outdoors.
Like man, I've never had a year with no shows
in twenty two years of touring. We put this album
out and we hired a very expensive and so for
people hearing this story, I don't name names. It was
supposed to be distributed by a big distributor. After the
big day in October happened. I mean, we had everything

(25:41):
but a signed contract. We had budgets. I spent a
lot of money promoting the record, manufacturing the record. They
just slowly ghosted us and walked away and then posted
a bunch of Zionist stuff. The biggest promoters in my
biggest markets that I've known for years, I know them.
I know they love me. They bring their kids to
talk to me. Wouldn't book me for anything.

Speaker 3 (26:02):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (26:03):
There, we hired a big press agent. I know the
names of all the people at the big uh outlets.
The biggest magazine is the biggest, all of that stuff.
I know their names. They've written about me everything that
I've done for years. We didn't go from the biggest
outlets like Rolling Stone to smaller ones. We went from
Rolling Stone to nothing. Not a single blog except for one.

Speaker 3 (26:26):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (26:26):
There was one place in Palestine actually that covered us.
Chuck D played US. Amy Goodman on Democracy Now played us.
That's it. But I'm saying so we went from from
I'm a very reliable entity in the music Well, well,
for sure, I'm not big and famous. You're not gonna
make millions, but you will always make thousands of dollars.

Speaker 3 (26:46):
You're gonna, you're gonna, You're always gonna sell your tickets.

Speaker 1 (26:50):
And I'm never a messy My fans aren't messy. I'm
somebody that promoters are just like, Hey, it's brother Harley Day.
Of course it's happy for everybody. Nothing, no press on nothing.
And then also shadow band on social media from making
a project with an anti Zionist Jewish homie where called
Love and Service, which is about United War, where one
of the songs is a critique of a Jewish American

(27:14):
and what Chappelle calls the whitest of all the whites
with a critique about our own power structure. So yeah, man,
it's real, and you know, shout out to the people
that have said it. I mean, Maclamore is in a
unique position where he already got his money, his millions
and his grands. Oh yeah, he's chilling, He's yeah. But
what Maclamore wants is to be respected, and he's going

(27:34):
about it the right way. Maclamore also, I've known him.
I knew him long before he was famous. He also
was a super underground cat for years. You know, like
the one critique that I have of my brother, who
I love, who is a very nice person, a very
talented person. He's a husband and a dad. He's got
a lot to say. He's a Maclamore learned a lot

(27:55):
from the Rhyme series movement and from us, and when
he made his assent. He was very careful to cover
up the people that he learned a lot of what
he learned, so he would he was and I know
his his manager was my booking agent. I was very
like close on the inside of what was happening there.

(28:17):
And they were very careful to not shed light on
the people that they learned a lot of what they
did from. So you know, if you listen to his music,
he'll credit Wu Tang and all this other stuff, but
he sounds more like Sainte Francis and me in Atmosphere
and you know what I mean. And also there's a
lot of very very direct connections. They brought him to
Rhyme Saies to try to sign him. They manufactured the

(28:40):
deal that they had to distribute that album, which is
called The Heist, which is interesting.

Speaker 3 (28:45):
They had he had the it was essentially like a
label services thing with Warner.

Speaker 1 (28:50):
Which was found which was developed by Rhyme Sayers. That
was the Rhyme Sayers deal that they took. You know,
it was a directly from the blueprint. And so the
only critique that I've ever had of him, and it's
not a hateful one, but it is a true one,
is that when he made that assent, there was an
opportunity to tell the truth about he got credit for

(29:13):
a lot of things that were developed by people who
never got a chance to be famous, right and so,
and you know, and that's a historical thing in the
music business.

Speaker 3 (29:22):
Yeah, I think with Mac man, I mean obviously, you know,
I'm cool with Mac. I think he's first of all.
That whole thing happened really fast, the heists, I mean
one hip Hop Album of the Year. You know, a
lot of people think Kendrick should have won it, but
I think I don't know, man, I just I know
him to be a very good guy, you know. And
and I'm not sure, you know, I'm not too hip

(29:45):
to or educated on. Like I haven't watched every interview
that he's done, so I don't know who he gives
love to and who doesn't give love to. But I
do know like he was like a like you said,
like he was very much like a blog era, like
kind of like, you know, outside of the mainstream of
hip hop for a long time, meeting up in the Northwest,
and then he caught a wave, you know, Like.

Speaker 1 (30:06):
Well, yes, and like I said in the Dunya, two
things are true two things can be true. Two things
can be true, and so we're dealing with a very good,
very talented, very hard work and deserving person who also
was very calculated about employing things that it didn't happen fast.
It happened very slow.

Speaker 3 (30:23):
Right, I mean in terms of just the like it
felt like if you were not if you didn't know
who Maclamore was before twenty twelve, and then all of
a sudden.

Speaker 1 (30:33):
It seems like it was out of nowhere.

Speaker 3 (30:34):
Right, That's what I mean, like from like a generic music.

Speaker 1 (30:37):
But then there's also there's been many years where this
you know, it could have there. I know this situation
very well, know him very well. I've had a converse,
I've had conversations with him about this. I will just
say the only unfortunate thing is that he benefited a
lot from underground. And that's usually the case where there's

(30:57):
an underground movement. So we all know Nirvana, but in
the Pacific Northwest, it's like, no, we were all grinding
like this and then they made it, you know what
I mean. So sometimes you'll have a situation where people
really want you to know, they want to also allow
their success to be helpful to the people who's grind
helped them. So like when Eminem got his first Grammy,

(31:20):
Eminem stood up there and he knew that white America
had never heard intricate rhyming like this before, because before him,
you could only be on a radio if it was
funky colpe Medina again not justice to tone look, but
like you had to be simple to be on the radio.
White people did not want to hear intricate rapping. When
Eminem came along. He knows white America doesn't know broader America,
mainstream America doesn't know who I'm on the shoulders of.

(31:43):
So he took out a list and he said, coogi
rap And he read this whole list of artists that
he knew weren't known because he benefited from them, and
then he also wanted his success to benefit them. So
every day he's got a T shirt on with these
artists that people don't yeah and so to Yeah. So
just the one critique about our dear brother, and I'm

(32:06):
saying I'm not I'm not just being polite when I
say the other side really hard work and beautiful guy,
done a lot of great things. And this Gadza thing
is like, man, it's beautiful, you know. But there's another
chance when they say you're the only rapper saying anything
he knows, also, that's not true, Like you know what
I mean. So if somebody says to me, brother, Ali,

(32:27):
you did this and this and this and this and this,
I'm going to say, yes, I learned a lot of
from from my mortal technique. I also I'm going to
shout out all the people that came before me that
aren't known.

Speaker 3 (32:36):
I say that too all the time you bring it
up a mortal technique, I'm like, yeo, Like there's obviously
you touched on what's going on in your music. But
you know, when I was sixteen, like a mortal technique
was like you would learn like yeah about shit, you
never even heard of it. I just don't know who

(32:56):
the young generation's version of a mortal tech is anymore.
I don't think that. I don't know if it exists.

Speaker 1 (33:01):
Well, I don't think they're rapping. I think I think
it is.

Speaker 3 (33:03):
Like or nineteen Keys or a podcast or something. But yes,
like when I was growing up, like dude, you were
learning about.

Speaker 1 (33:09):
All kinds of CIA. Did you see him once?

Speaker 3 (33:12):
Way he just freached out like he sent me his
albums albums dope amazing. No, but yeah, but I'm sure
it's like it's like we had immortal tech and and
certain artists where you would be like you would learn shit,
yes and make you questions.

Speaker 1 (33:25):
You could actually develop a political lens by listening to
your favorite artists.

Speaker 3 (33:30):
Yes, or at least have nuance or have like perspective
and at least open up your viewpoint a little bit,
you know.

Speaker 1 (33:35):
And now that's not Now that's not the case. Yeah,
And you know, and I've been thinking about this and
talking about it a lot. And that's why I also think,
like whatever people's nuanced opinions of the Kendrick thing are,
Kendrick re established that hip hop is that voice. And
in a lot of ways you mentioned Islam, and then
in a lot of ways Islam has been that voice.
You know, you think about the first time that this

(33:57):
person got elected. You know, they they brought I'm getting
chills thinking about this, but they brought Dave Chappelle and
tribe called Quest on Saturday Night Live. And they're all Muslim,
Like everybody on the stage is Muslim. And those are
the people that those are the people that are gonna
get the worst of whatever. This is comforting America basically, right,

(34:20):
And it just happened too, And it just happened to just
did was it right after the election?

Speaker 3 (34:26):
Yeah? So they just and again it's like it's something
about Dave's voice.

Speaker 1 (34:31):
During those monologues. It just it just feels like and
and you know, and that's the that's the big lie
of American life that just constantly gets repeated, is like
we we cannot live without black people, but we hate
being compared to them. And it's like, well, we can't
deny you physically and talent wise, so what we're gonna
do is create these narratives that you're not as human

(34:52):
and you're not nuanced, and you're not dynamic, and you're
not sensitive, and you're not you know, you're you're you're
just a very talented, mega souper hero brute. You're not
really fully human. But what happens over and over and
over again is whenever we're in a jam, we go
back to black voices to help us make sense of
this mess that we made. That's that you're going to

(35:14):
catch the worst brunt of again, and it's always there.
You know, you're dealing with their mother and father of humanity.
You're dealing with the original people. So it's like every
great thing is from them, you know what I mean.
And there's nothing self deprecating about that. It's like saying
my grandparents are amazing, my mom is amazing, you know
what I mean.

Speaker 3 (35:33):
It's like we are all.

Speaker 1 (35:35):
In one way or another, the inheritors and the recipients
of that. And that's what I mean when I say
that to be connected culturally is to have no problem given,
to take pride in giving it up to who did
I learn from? Who came along when there were no
Grammys for this stuff, and who put in the who
destroyed their voices and maybe their families and maybe they're

(35:56):
whatever to build this thing so that someone like Maclamore
could learn all of that, And then to be asked
and to not and to deny even you know what
I mean, to deny that that there's any influence.

Speaker 3 (36:09):
I don't listen to them. I heard scapegoat and I
never heard I never listened to anything. I didn't see that.

Speaker 1 (36:14):
So yeah, or when people are when or when people
would ask, to always push it away and downplay it.
That was a very conscious decision that was made by
a person who's otherwise very beautiful.

Speaker 3 (36:24):
You know, yeah, I mean I feel like, you know,
there's if you've heard, like you said, the Sage Francis
of the world, what you guys have been doing over
I mean, obviously.

Speaker 1 (36:32):
There's something you hear Sage Francis.

Speaker 3 (36:33):
There's definitely there has to be some sort of influence there.

Speaker 1 (36:36):
It's absolutely. I mean, he's so. On his first album
before he got famous, there's a song called Contradiction Maclamore.
This is this Maclamore song called Contradiction. He's saying, I
say I'm about this, but I really do this. He's like,
I say I'm sober, but sometimes I smoke weed. I
say I'm this, but sometimes I'm not. He ends the
He ends the song by saying, I bought fifty cent

(36:58):
and burned Brother Ali.

Speaker 3 (37:00):
What does that say about me?

Speaker 1 (37:01):
So, by his own admission, he's saying what I am
about is Brother Ali, but I didn't. But I did
not buy Brother Ali's album. I bought the fifty cent album,
which is the antithesis of what my music is about.
This is the contradiction I'm He also shouted a soap
rock out when he's got a song about being white
and white thing and he's like a soop rock is
the great, you know. So these are choices that are made,

(37:26):
and it's like, if we're going to be truthful, that's
that's all it is, you know what I mean. So,
and this is the only reason I'm saying this because
I never spoke about against him ever, even when he
was coming out. When he was successful, it made me
happy that he was successful, and it you know, it
makes me more happy that LP is successful because I
P was in those trenches, deaf jucks baby, LP was

(37:47):
in those trenches for years. But I'm saying for somebody
to learn from those trenches and also learn how to
carry oneself in a way that's respectable. It's not just
the so there's musical styles like if you listen to
the way the atmosphere songs are constructed and Ryan Lewis now,
I know that Ryan Lewis had an hour long conversation

(38:08):
with Joe Mabbitt, our mix engineer, about how are you
mixing these brother Ali records so that we focus on
this type of very intimate personal thing. I know all
of those stories. I know that the album was manufactured
in Minnesota, where the rhyme says, albums are I know
all those details, but there's something about also benefiting from

(38:29):
someone who came alone, and like, what does it look
like for a European American person, white person, caucazoid whatever
to be on stage with rock Kim and Rock Kim
hands him the mic and it's like, this is the guy,
you know what I'm saying. But then you look at
Marlon Kraft. So Marlon Kraft just had that moment with
uh with Harland's amazing with method Man. I'm getting tales

(38:50):
thinking about this because Method Man just did a song
with Marlon Kraft, did not charge him a penny, No
Marlin Martin, and then he got he's a friend of
the show, and then he got it.

Speaker 3 (38:58):
And then he did the video with Marlin and would
not take money. Then he came to Marlon Craft is
curating a weekly or like a night in New York
with a band. Methan Man comes out to the thing
and says, I want everybody to know I love this dude.

Speaker 1 (39:11):
I rock with this dude. But if you ask Marlon Craft,
where are you learning this from?

Speaker 3 (39:16):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (39:17):
Marlon Craft came out on tour with me in Evidence
with me and Evidence to it again. We made an
album together, will always give it up. Marlon Craft is
a little different guy. He comes from the culture in
a way that I think. Or if you talk to Evidence,
you know and you say Evidence will say I could
only be in the room a lot of times. Because
he's from Venice. A lot of people think FS Puerto Rican.

(39:40):
A lot of people are like that. There's no way
that soul for man. Michael Peret White, he's Italian, but
he says, Roka taught me RockA Irish sirens taught me
how to be in these rooms. RockA took me to
somebody's house and just got home from prison. This is
evidence telling a story. And I ask him what you do?

(40:01):
Rock opulls me in the other room and says, here, we
don't say what you do, We say what they get
you for.

Speaker 3 (40:05):
You know what I mean. This is like to be
taught and to be to be instructed, whether it's direct
or whether it's just from watching it. What you do
in culture is you you benefit from people who don't
get the recognition, and then you allow your recognition to
also benefit them that didn't happen.

Speaker 1 (40:23):
That's all I'm saying, Okay, have you guys ever talked yes,
like in the last like recently, not recently recently, but
we talked about this, so so you guys have this conversation. Okay, yeah,
And I'm saying and it's interesting because so many people
in the music industry asked me about it. Why does
he sound like you? Why is this so much like you?
Why does this sound so much like atmosphere?

Speaker 3 (40:43):
Why does this? And why don't you ask him?

Speaker 1 (40:45):
But they don't, But Tyler Quality asked him on the podcast,
and I can let people watch it.

Speaker 3 (40:52):
It was unfortunate.

Speaker 1 (40:54):
Michael Moore said, I think that my success has really
had an impact on and it's not his success, happy
for his success. It's the it's there there there. There's
a history of lies of omission where you know, a
lot of people for a long time didn't know that
you ain't nothing but a hound dog isn't an Elvis

(41:15):
Presley song. It's a big Mama Thornton song. Right. A
lot of people don't know that. And so you say,
even if you go back and say, okay, we're gonna
pay her royalties, she taught you how that, how to
present that, how to phrase it, how to you know,
you know, you hear, you hear It's it's a historical thing.

(41:36):
It's a historical thing that happens that when somebody gets
recognized for something, you have the choice to either shed
the light on the people that you learned from, whether
he likes us the best or not. I know I'm
one of his favorites or I was at some point,
but he learned a lot from that group of people,
and he's not the only one. And it's interesting because
other people that also had that that booking agent that

(42:00):
I was like one of his first artists. A lot
of the things that Maclamore did he wanted me to do.
So I had said the F word about gay people
on my first album, and then I realized how that
was a cruel thing to do.

Speaker 3 (42:12):
Yeah, I mean times change. That word obviously has not
aged the best.

Speaker 1 (42:16):
But I was wrong when I said it, the fact
that everybody else said it, I was wrong. So I
made a song where I said something correcting that. And
Zach Quillin, who is Maclamore's manager, comes to me and says,
you just made the first ever pro gay hip hop song.
You need to be the first rapper on Ellen. We
need to make a campaign out of this, and I said, nah,
that's corny to me because it's not my issue. I'm

(42:38):
just correcting a bad thing that I did, Like I
did a cruel thing. I don't want to be a
cruel person. I need to take myself to account. And
he said, man, you're missing a big opportunity. So he
took that and applied it to Maclamore. But you got
to make the song that's going to be the thing,
and you're going to be the first. So now here
he is on stage, this is the first pro gay
hip hop song. He's from a city where there are

(42:59):
gay there's a there's a women of color that are
LGBT called the Satisfaction Dreamampton did a video for them.
They're down with Ish from Diggable Planets in Shabbad's Palace.
It's well known. But also this is a story taking.
This is something that I thought was corny for me
to do. It's like, okay, we'll just take an apply

(43:19):
it there. So when you're on that stage, it's like,
you know, I'm not the first to do this. There
are others that have done it, you know what I mean.
I mean merce made a video where he kissed a
dude in the video. I remember that it's called animal
style because Merce is really with the ish at all times.
Sure Merce is, you know, he's from Miss City for sure.
And he's like, hey, if you're gonna if you don't

(43:40):
like them, don't like me either. What's up?

Speaker 3 (43:42):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (43:42):
Mrse is a straight man, married, got a bunch of kids,
married a beautiful Brazilian lady, got a bunch of babies.
But he's like, hey, man, you want to fight gay people,
here's me kissing a dude on a thing. I wouldn't
have done it exactly that way. But Merce is one
thousand with whatever he's doing, for sure, you know what
I mean. That's one of my dearest friends. So it's like, man,
you know all this right, So it's like, you know,

(44:03):
along with being a beautiful person, along with all the
good he's done. He also paid Grandmaster kas And and
uh And and Grandmaster Cas Melly mel and Kolmo d
a bunch of money to be in it.

Speaker 3 (44:15):
He made a video.

Speaker 1 (44:16):
Called uh uh It's about motor scooters.

Speaker 3 (44:20):
Oh yeah, that song's hard too. Fuck I forget the
name he made the song. He wanted an old school
in it. Yeah, he reached out to Big Daddy Kane.
Big Daddy Can is a mentor of mine. He said, Cain,
who should I get in this? He said, if you
really want to get legends, who you got to get?
And he put them on Macklamore put him in the video.
He paid them.

Speaker 1 (44:36):
He's done a lot of good things. That's one area
where he didn't And so I wasn't planning on talking
about this today. But he's done so many good things.
He is a good person. I think he and he's
good with me and what he's he told quality that
was confusing to him is like, Ali is so loving
to me, but then he then he also has feelings

(44:57):
about whatever. And I'm like, yes, I'm loving to you
because I love you. You're very lovable, like undeniable you. Right,
if you're in a room with this person, it's just like, man, oh,
come on, man, look you know what I mean? Sure, yeah,
but that's not that is a but when there's an
injustice we have to tell the truth about that's an injustice.
That's an injustice that in the time that it could

(45:19):
something could have happened, it didn't. So he's got the
Grammy he's got money. What he wants now is to
be respected, and so Gaza is one of those things
where he is really genuinely speaking about stuff, even though
he's not as connected to it, you know what I mean,
But he is speaking. There are people that there are

(45:42):
sponsorships that he probably could have gotten that will walk
away from him. He's making real sacrifice.

Speaker 3 (45:46):
He's definitely made some sacrifices because I know it's like
doing a lot of the protests and stuff and performing
at him like I mean, it's kind of crazy to
think that, like people are losing verses and the idea
of like people being kicked out of school for protesting,
and I mean, it's like the opposite of freedom.

Speaker 1 (46:05):
I've had a file with the Department of Homeland Security
since Uncle Sam goddamn came out. They took money from
me when I was on tour. They seized my tour money.
They came to my house and banged on my door
on my birthday and scared my daughters and tried to
cut the FBI tried to come into my house. I've
had you know, I've been strip searched, I've been harassed,

(46:25):
I've been pulled off airplanes, I've been I've been going
through all of this.

Speaker 3 (46:28):
For a very long time, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (46:32):
But to see somebody like that step in in the
way that he can this thing is this is a
conversation about him now, which is which is not what
I attended. But we're in a very interesting place in
the world, and so when people make the decision to
try to say something, it's admirable by all counts, no
doubt about it.

Speaker 3 (46:50):
Yeah, I think it's you know, I think we're just gonna,
like you said, we're in a weird place in the world, man,
where it's like sometimes I'll read stuff out loud and
I'll be like, this is a thing like you can
you like, if we're supposed to be in America where like,
you know, you're supposed to have freedom to protest, and
you know, the First Amendment is supposed to be the

(47:11):
one thing we hold above all. But if there's just
one thing right that mark up out of here.

Speaker 1 (47:19):
For Mark Lamont Hill wrote a book called Everything Except Palestine.

Speaker 3 (47:23):
Yeah, and it's so crasho out to him, by the way, amazing,
But it's just it's just interesting because you know, I
think about uh, I can't think of the guy's name,
the journalist. I've watched him for years. He ended up
leaving at MSNBC when all this happened because he's fuck
what's his name. You might know he's he's Middle Eastern.

(47:44):
He had a show on MSNBC, and when all this
shit happened, he left, he had to leave. It's almost
like it's just crazy. It's like I said, right, yeah,
that's him. But we're living in like the upside down world.
But it's not necessarily the upside down world. I feel
like it's always kind of been the world. It's just
now it's a little bit more. Now it's with TikTok

(48:04):
and social media, you can't hide from what's happening.

Speaker 1 (48:10):
Yeah, and even they.

Speaker 3 (48:11):
Try to get TikTok up out of here, you know.

Speaker 1 (48:13):
What I'm saying. It was while at the same time
saying we're gonna, we're gonna clamp down less on Facebook,
which is like, we know who's on Facebook, right, but
we're gonna, But but TikTok has to be and we
know who's on TikTok. And that's the thing because if
the it's like is it free speech or is it
just a speech?

Speaker 3 (48:29):
I like exactly. And that's the one thing where it's like, okay,
like you know, we're getting to this point where both
sides are trying to act like their free speech absolutists,
but they're both very full of shit in terms of
like what they're what they cherry pick, you know. Yeah,
And that is the one thing about X is there's
some crazy shit on X. But on X at the

(48:51):
very least, like it seems as if unless you like
talk about Elon Musk in a negative way, he'll block you.
But I see a lot like Sean kings still thought
on X, you know, like they got Sean King the
fuck up out of here. Sean King had the like
on Instagram. I feel like on IG at least Sean
King was showing everybody what was happening in Gaza and

(49:13):
then with like a Thanos finger snap, he was just
gone from the Internet. And I'm like, what this is crazy? Yeah,
you know, but he was still at least on X.
But like, but TikTok, I'm not big on TikTok, but
I know that was It was interesting that the conversation
went from all of these people were against banning TikTok.

Speaker 1 (49:36):
And then a few years.

Speaker 3 (49:37):
Passed, the probably two years past or whatever, and then
all of a sudden, it's conveniently everybody's in unison that
TikTok should be banned. Yeah, And it was like, well,
what changed October seventh happened, which obviously, you know, how
do you feel about what happened on October seventh? It
was you know, a lot of people died. It was
very sad. It was a situation that nobody would condone.
But when you look at the full context and nuance

(49:59):
of the last you know, one hundred years, however many years, right,
it's it's it's it's a full picture thing. And the
propaganda and a lot of the misleading of what actually
happened that day and whether or not it was purposely
allowed to happen. Man, And there was an incredible amount
of lives told, a lot of lies, and a lot

(50:21):
of a lot of it would seem that it was
allowed to happen because I mean, listen, not to get
too deep into the weeds of conspiracy theorists, but you know,
you needed a really big excuse to have to go
in and take Gaza, right, because that's always been that
There've never it's never been a secret that that's that's

(50:42):
what they want, you know, especially with the West Bank.
And so now you have the biggest excuse you you
can you can do.

Speaker 1 (50:48):
Whatever you want.

Speaker 3 (50:49):
And for the most part, people are gonna you know,
but the thing is and then social media comes in,
so for the most part, people aren't the younger generations
like now this is some this is crazy, and so
that's my thing. It's like, at the end of the day,
how do you feel about Israel is a country? How
do you feel about what happened on October seven? If
you could be honest about what's happening in guys in
the West Bank? Yeah, and you know, you want to

(51:13):
be on the right side of history or not. I mean,
why do we respect Muhammad Ali so much? It's like, yeah,
he was the greatest boxer of all time, no doubt,
and he was very handsome and charismatic and smart and
all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 1 (51:23):
But he stood on something. We respect Muhammad Ali because
at the height and he did this more than once,
by the way, but at the height of that man's
success career, physical prowess, they said, yeah, fine, you can
be you can be with with Elijah Muhammada all you want,
but we're gonna induct you into the army and put
a uniform on you, and we're basically going to we're

(51:43):
basically gonna stop. You don't have to. They weren't even
gonna make them go fight because we could propagandize that
we're gonna put a uniform on you and let everybody
know who's boss. And he said, no, you're very not actually,
And you know, so he gave up his success at
the at the height of his physical prowess for years,
for several years, he went broke doing it, similar to

(52:03):
Colin Kaepernick, similar to Dave Chappelle when he walked away
from all that money. Yeah, similar to what you know,
and you know, that's a there's just there's just no
way around that. But that's why we love and admire
and respect that man so much. And the way that
people felt about him at that time was not different
than somebody speaking out against Gaza. Right now, there's somebody

(52:25):
speaking against Vietnam at that time in that place, and
people hated him for it.

Speaker 3 (52:31):
And now and now we look back time, yeah exactly,
Time tilles the truth, right, So it's like, I don't
know what's going to happen. But it's like interesting because,
like you know, I was like very much a part
of the political spectrum where I couldn't bring myself to
vote for Kamala Harris because of her involvement. It's tough, man,
And I was I looked at Joe Stein and I
was like, I feel good about the vote. I mean,

(52:53):
I know she's not gonna win, but I feel good
about the vote. And in my head, I'm like, well,
nobody can do worse than what the last few couple
of years have been. And how do you feel now?
And now, I mean, look, this is I hate when
people say that, now, how do you feel?

Speaker 2 (53:10):
What?

Speaker 3 (53:10):
I mean, the ceasefire obviously happened, and I'm like, okay,
at least something cool. But now with this go, oh
my god, it's like I think this could be We
all were worried about the Russia Ukrainian War and the
war with Israel and Hamas kind of sparking World War three.

(53:33):
I think there's a serious chance that US trying to
bully our way into Gaza. I don't know if the
rest of the world's going to stand for that. And
by the rest of the world, I mean, you know,
I don't know if China is standing for us taking
over Gaza. I don't know, if you know, like it's
pretty crazy when you say it out loud and like
it's kind of become it's just wild, man.

Speaker 1 (53:53):
I mean it's also I mean it's it's it's on
TikTok now to the difference is TikTok. But I mean
it's not different from what that. I mean, the entire
continent of Australia didn't have a single white person on it.
There was like a multitude of thriving peoples on that island,
Turtle Island, what we called America now was an entire

(54:16):
civilization of all these different beautiful tribes and all these
people that didn't have a single Africans were here before
Europeans came here. I mean, and you know, this is
the same thing that's happened. We're living in what used
to be Gaza to the Native Americans, you know what
I mean, Like when we go to these like it's

(54:37):
still striking when we go to like these beautiful sites,
you go to the Grand Canyon and like I'm crying
because it's beautiful, but I'm also crying because I know
what this meant to a group of people who had
a spiritual bond with this place, and how many of
their women had to be raped and their children to
be killed, and their leaders to be killed and hung
up in public in front of everybody. And I know

(54:58):
what had to happen for that to for this to
just now it's a national park.

Speaker 3 (55:03):
Yeah, I feel like And so it's it's it's it's
interesting because back then when there was settlements and settlers
and people being you know, cleansed off their land and
all of the murder, and there was no social media.
This was this was a new frontier. Now we see
it all. So it's like now it's like it's it's

(55:24):
it's almost like a like that's the thing with the
Goaza situation. It's like, yo, like I just don't understand,
like I've I've unfollowed people because however you feel about
Israel and it's right to exist, that's one thing.

Speaker 1 (55:37):
But that's try.

Speaker 3 (55:39):
Lack empathy, yeah, or or at the very least try
to tell yourself what you're seeing isn't what you're seeing
to me, it's just crazy.

Speaker 1 (55:52):
Also not new brother, So I mean you know, no,
you're right, you think about like, well, what was book
or two. Washington booker T. Washington wrote The Slave there
because you know, he he he was the child of
a white slave owner who raped a black, black enslaved person,
and then he was sent away to a new family

(56:12):
to be split up from his family. The woman took
a certain amount of sympathy on him and loved him,
the white woman, and she taught him to read, and
the husband tortured her for that. Crazy and yeah, and
then she actually became as evil as any slave owned
because she was tortured for teaching him to read and
for thinking he was a human being, and for loving
him and treating him like a child. The husband tortured

(56:35):
her and to the point that she became cruel. But
because he Washington, but now he knows how to read,
he knows how to write, and he's actually brilliant, and
he escapes and he gets north and he realizes, oh,
the white people here don't know what slavery actually is.
If they knew what slavery was, everybody, everybody would be
against it. So he wrote a slave narrative and they said,

(56:56):
there's no way, there's no way, well, there's no way
that this that this black man, even though he's light skin.
There's no way he actually wrote this because they can't
write like this. That became the conversation. Did he plagiarize it?
Did somebody white write it for him? That became the conversation.
So it's like in the Dunya there's good mix with bad.

(57:17):
In ourselves there's good mix with bad. That's the human condition.
And also in Nidunia, the more things change, the more
they stay the same. So I mean that was the
TikTok of its time. We're powerless pamphlets, more to mouths,
paper going around and making speeches and you know what
is I think.

Speaker 3 (57:34):
Now the visual aspect of it is just it's like undeniable.

Speaker 1 (57:38):
You know, there were postcards during that time. So it's
funny when I talk to people about racing and they're like,
I know what happened to black people? No, you don't.
I've been studying this since I was eight years old,
and I'm still learning something new every day about people
whose skins were used to make furniture, Like you learn
something new every day. It's an ocean without a shore
during that time. People excuse me if this is true

(58:00):
for people Melah and no Wu, but uh, you know,
they would hang people. They would hang black men and
castrate them, and they would cut off their ears and
they would you know, save them as trinkets and things
like that, and they made postcards and they sent the
postcards to their family members, you know what I mean.
And this is not a this is not a made

(58:21):
up thing like you can go to certain museums and
places like that and see these postcards. These postcards were
sent all over America. There were physical pictures. People have
denied this type of brutality the whole time that this
part of the world has been this part of the world, right,
we've been denying this. It's it's in our it's who
we are now. It's not how it's not This isn't

(58:43):
how it is. This is what it is. Right.

Speaker 3 (58:46):
What was your inspiration to, I guess discover Islam and
be so I guess a separate question would be just
I just kind of be so engaged in trying to
educate yourself on this this stuff.

Speaker 1 (58:58):
So it started because of hip hop man. One of
my first memories was, like that really sticks with me
is seeing Minister Fara Khan on Donahue. Okay, the first
time he was on there, twice. It's masterful, and everybody
should go on YouTube and look watch both of those.
It's one of the most even just as an oratorical display,
it's one of the most amazing things ever. But as

(59:20):
a little kid, I was always really deeply troubled, like, man,
America is lying about black people. I didn't know the
whole history. I didn't know why. But I'm like and
so seeing Farra Kahn on TV with Phil Donahue and like,
I look more like Donahue than I do, and man,
I'm just like, this is incredible. So that was my
first time I've been then hearing it in hip hop

(59:41):
and things like that. And then when I was thirteen
years old, I went and saw keras One give a
lecture and he brought me on stage. I asked a question.
He brought me on stage, and he told me I
should read the autobiography of Malcolm X.

Speaker 3 (59:53):
And I read that book when I was like twelve, yeah, thirteen.

Speaker 1 (59:55):
Same, and then the movie came out. But like we
grew up in hip hop us, Malcolm X is like
the Jesus Christ of hip hop yo.

Speaker 3 (01:00:02):
But then you start to like, you're like, yo, Malcolm
X is like a player the Detroit red Air of
his life.

Speaker 1 (01:00:06):
He was like, yeah, a gangster period, Yeah, for sure.
So the whole time I'm reading this book, I'm like,
this is the most like yeah, so he's such a
great book. He's dope. Oh he was a street guy,
he was whatever. And he's also like an urban guy
and a city guy at the same time, and like
he's everything. And so I'm like, I'm not allowed to

(01:00:27):
be in this movement, but I'm just gonna imitate them.
I believe in what they believe in gonna I'm gonna
do what they do, even though I'm not allowed to
join it. So then Malcolm goes to Mecca and he's like, oh,
there are people here that in America would be called white,
but they're not white. He's like, white is a mentality.
Just like for years they would say to black people,
we are the so called negro, just because everybody says

(01:00:49):
that's what we are. We existed before anybody else, So like,
what is this title now Nigro? The same is true
for European people. It's only been a couple hundred years
that there was an idea of somebody called white, and
that was a very specific branding thing that was done
to try to unite all of the European peasants to
stop fighting the landowners and the oppressors in Europe and

(01:01:14):
to be on the same team. That like, we're going
to be on the same team. We're all going to
be white. And trust me, you're part of it. You're
at least you're not going to be at the bottom
of the social order and all. And you know, so
we're on hundreds of years of that lie. So the
first thing was that Islam addressed that lie. Malcolm said,
these people, they're not white in how they are, and

(01:01:35):
he said if white Americans would learn Islam, study Islam,
it would help them become human again. And I was like, Okay,
that's all I've been waiting for. Then I had to
like learn and figure it out and find a community
and blah blah blah blah blah. So it's been a
journey like that ever since. And now my family, like
we've lived in is Dambul, Turkey for the last four years.
My wife's also a convert. And the more I learned,

(01:01:58):
the more I love it. So you're in Turk, I lived.
I've been living in is Stumble four years. I do
not live in this country?

Speaker 3 (01:02:03):
How is it out there?

Speaker 1 (01:02:05):
Dope and difficult?

Speaker 3 (01:02:07):
When you fight home.

Speaker 1 (01:02:10):
Or rather when you which one is home? Which home?

Speaker 3 (01:02:12):
Okay? When you when you okay? When you're flying out
of Turkey? How many guys have the the head rap
because they had their I know so many, it's insane. Yeah,
they go out there, they get I guess like they
the I mean, obviously it's like the world leader for
scalp surgery or whatever. But my boy went out there,

(01:02:32):
He's like, Yo, they got the hotel on lock it's
like five star service. They take you to it from. Yeah,
but I heard Turkey is beautiful.

Speaker 1 (01:02:39):
Well, yeah, if you're in it's like any other place.
Like if you go to the tourist location, there's only
tourists there.

Speaker 3 (01:02:44):
I'm friend with a lot of Armenians. Man, they got that.
You know that? Uh, the Turkey vers Armenia thing is
in La. It's a big.

Speaker 1 (01:02:51):
It is a big specifically in LA for sure, for sure. Yeah,
And so people ask me about that. And my critique
has always been of groups that I'm in places where
I have influences and where I pay my taxes. I'm
not a Turk. I'm not a citizen of Turkey. I
don't vote for I don't have any power in Turkey.

(01:03:13):
My audience is not a Turkish audience. I don't have
influence in Turkey, and I don't pay my taxes in Turkey.
My influence, my taxes, and my voting are here, and
so I am critical of groups that I'm in for
sure and people that listen to me.

Speaker 3 (01:03:29):
So you know what inspired you to go out there?

Speaker 1 (01:03:32):
So my wife actually studied in Turkey for a summer.
There's like these like intensives when you become a Muslim.
You can go and spend a whole summer and they
just bombard you with learning. It's more than you can
possibly take in. But you get a lay of the land.
And she came back and she was like, Yo, Okay,
this is the specific type of practice that we're going
to start doing going forward, and someday we're going to

(01:03:55):
live in is Stumbul. She's like, you need to live
in is Stumbul. And so she told me that like
ten years ago, and I was like, okay, Like her
instincts are undefeated. I know if she's if she's serious
about something, it's there's truth there. So I'm like, okay,
all right, so I started visiting, and then during the pandemic,
it's like, yeah, now might as well be the time.

Speaker 3 (01:04:14):
That's dope, man, Yeah was it. I always feel like
That's why I always tell tell people like I always
will talk to like people who I've only lived in
one city or one area in their life. I'm like,
sometimes you just gotta Obviously, being in radio, I've lived
all over the country, and I feel like just traveling
in general, obviously being a touring artist, you get to
have a lot of nuance in perspective you've been all

(01:04:35):
over the world, you know. But a lot of people
lack that because they just know where they're at, and
it's so hard. It's easy to tell somebody to travel
if they're fucking that they've got a full time job,
you know, and they only have two weeks a year
of vacation. You know. But just think it's so important man,
to get nuanced in perspective of the world.

Speaker 1 (01:04:52):
Well, especially if you're in the dominant group, and people
in the dominant group don't realize they're in the dominant group.

Speaker 3 (01:04:57):
Like that's ultimately, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:04:59):
Unless you grow up in hip hop and you're the
only person that looks like you're in a room and
you're like, oh, this is actually the reality. I'm trying
to see what's up with this? Sure, but for most people,
if you're an American, even if you don't have money,
even if you're like the world media is telling your
story and projecting your culture and you don't realize that
unless you're not from that, and so yeah, it's like

(01:05:22):
it's very difficult to get like, we don't know ourselves
until we know what the alternate version of us is.
Like you have a doctorate degree in the English language,
until you learn another language that's very different from English,
you don't really know your language because you only know
it as an insider. Yeah, it's like if you go
visit a culture and like they only know each other,

(01:05:43):
You're like, oh, you guys do this differently and they're
like no, what do you mean?

Speaker 3 (01:05:45):
Like this is what's different? Yeah, no, is what everybody does.

Speaker 1 (01:05:48):
Yes, So for Americans it's like yeah, man, and it's
one it's fine, go to Europe, that's cool, But like, man,
see what's up with Ethiopia, See what's up with the Gambia,
See what's up with Lebanon, See what's up with you know,
Vietnam and.

Speaker 3 (01:06:06):
Go away Asia is crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:06:07):
Go away from where the tourists are for sure. Don't
don't be in a tourist area. Go in a place
of like, well, we don't speak the language. Yes, that's
the point. That's where you want to be. We don't
know anybody here, that's the point. And watch how beautiful
people are to you wherever you go, like man, people
will help you, they will feed you, they'll smile at you,
they will welcome you, they will wherever you go. And
you just start really realizing, like there is a common

(01:06:30):
human thing. That's what you get to when you start
with you. But you got to know different types of
humans to learn what's my culture, what's our thing? And
then what part is the human thing? Because so much
of what we talk about is just the American thing, Yes.

Speaker 3 (01:06:45):
The American perspective. You brought d One out on the
road with you. D One is one of my favorite
guys man such as sweet Dude. He's been grinding for
years too, yes, but he's like an outlier in today's
landscape where he's he's got, you know, such a pure
heart and a message that I feel like rubs the

(01:07:06):
establishment the wrong way sometimes, but talk about like your guys'
friendship and you.

Speaker 1 (01:07:11):
Know, yeah, so I've known d for over ten years because.

Speaker 3 (01:07:14):
He's a hard I mean, yeah, he's obviously dropped album mers,
but you.

Speaker 1 (01:07:18):
Know he's a he's a Christian Christian Christians. Yeah, and
matter of fact, you know, we were bonding over that.
I have his child's book, his children's books over Okay,
that children's book was the number one selling item on
my tour. He came out and opened for me and
made the most of that. You know, I loved it.
He had a forty five minute set. He did seven songs.

(01:07:39):
It was mostly him talking about his message, his book,
the whole thing, and man, he won over every single person.

Speaker 3 (01:07:46):
It's amazing.

Speaker 1 (01:07:47):
And he is who he says he is, yes, and
what I have to be we were talking is like,
you know, we both have stood so hard. When I
first came in as an MC, I was not as
true to Islam as he has been to Christianity. I
used to curse like crazy, I used to talk crazy. Well,
he's had his own evolution as well, you know, to

(01:08:08):
a degree. Yeah, but I respect him in my room.
And when he said those things, it's like, I didn't
plan here coming to talk about anybody. He went to
Sway one time, not planning to talk about anybody, but
Sway was like, he was talking about glorifying violence, and
Sway was like, what do you mean? And he's so

(01:08:28):
d had just given out shoes. He does all kind
of giveaways in New Orleans. He had just given out
shoes that said reform on the bottom. They were Meek
Mills prison reform shoes. He's like, I just promoted this
because I was so happy that Meek Mills talking my
prison reform. But he just made a song with Rick
Ross and Jim Jones where they're talking about killing people.
So he's like, are what are we doing? Are we

(01:08:50):
trying to reform prison but also encourage people to do
things to go to prison. So he said, Meek Mills,
you could do better. Brother. I love you too much
not to be honest with you. He said, Rick Ross,
you could do better. Jim Jones, you could do They
threatened his life. Two of the three of those people
threatened his life. And it's not a joke.

Speaker 3 (01:09:08):
Like if.

Speaker 1 (01:09:11):
A head person that's deeply entrenched in the street in
Harlem come They went back to sway a few days
later and said, I might not touch you, but I
can't stop you know, my little one of my nephews,
of one of the young guys on the block from
putting in work for you just because they know you're
trying to get cloud off me. That's a green light

(01:09:32):
on your head at that point. Now he has me
made peace with two of the.

Speaker 3 (01:09:37):
Three of them.

Speaker 1 (01:09:37):
Rick Ross is the only one that he hasn't. But
I just saw he had pictures with Meek Mill, he
got with Jim Jones. They threatened him and it wasn't
a joke. And you know, these are the people that
it's like when you look back, you say, like that
is a person that really you talking about standing on business.
Everybody wants to have nice things. Everybody wants to secces.

(01:10:00):
That's not special. If you achieve it, it is special
and we're happy for you. But that's what everybody. It's
a special person though that says, I will, I will
relinquish some of my success for what's right, if that's
what it means. Some people pay the ultimate price, and
we talk about Malcolm and Martin. Neither one of them
saw their fortieth birthday. They paid the ultimate price, you know,

(01:10:22):
And then you talk about Muhammad Ali didn't pay that price,
but he paid a price. You talk about, you know,
I didn't pay the ultimate, but I paid a price.
You talk about our guy Mackelmore's paying a price, and
you know, and d one is that dude. And it's like,
ultimately we're going to die, like we're all going to
be there's a place in the earth where we will

(01:10:43):
be buried or burned and scattered or one hundred percent.
And it's like, what kind of person do you want
to be when you die? What do you want to
be the story of you? And nobody ever regretted giving
up status, fame, all that for what's right, because when
you die, your status is gone. Nobody knows you. There's
no you to know, you know what I mean. Nobody
recognizes you, nobody celebrates you. You don't have things that

(01:11:05):
other people. Your grave could be bigger than somebody else,
it doesn't matter. But if it's like that person in
that hole stood for something, they served others, They told
the truth when it was dangerous to do it because
they cared about the people that were being armed.

Speaker 3 (01:11:20):
Like that's different, Yeah, that's different for sure. And like
you said, we think back to the Muhammad Ali thing
like history, you know, like at that time, people didn't
like what was going on.

Speaker 1 (01:11:32):
Yeah, and all those people that were just sitting there, like,
how dare you change your name? How dare you become
a Muslim? How dare you walk away from these white
men that invested this money in your how dare you
say that you won't go in the military. Who are
you to do any of that? And he's saying, I'm
a man, That's who I am, and God made me,

(01:11:52):
You didn't make me. We're here together, and I just
I have just as much right as anybody else to
say what I think is true, and whatever I have,
I'll lose it all. But he did that before they
gave him a gold medal in nineteen sixty when he
was eighteen in Rome. He wore his gold medal back
in Louisville, Kentucky, and him and his mom and his
family and everybody went to the segregated restaurants. But then

(01:12:14):
his mom tried to go back without him and they said,
we don't serve colored people here. So Muhammad Ali is like,
if this just means that I'm free, but my people aren't.

Speaker 3 (01:12:21):
I don't want it.

Speaker 1 (01:12:22):
He threw his gold medal in the Ohio River, crazy eighteen.
He didn't know he was going to be the most
famous man on earth. He didn't know he'd be the
greatest champion ever. He did that because he believed in it.
And I had I'm friends with his daughter and I
was like, did he really throw that? She said, I
don't know, brother Ali, if he really threw that metal.
But nobody ever found or where's it at? Yeah, they

(01:12:42):
went through every single thing that man owned. There's there's
like a state sales where you can buy his dishes.
Nobody found the gold medal. I think that gold medals
in the Ohio River. Let's get to this album, Man
Satisfied Soul. You and aunt Aunt delivered on a production,
credible body work. How how long were you guys working

(01:13:02):
on this?

Speaker 3 (01:13:02):
Like? What what's give me the timeline short? It's the
easiest record we ever made. So it wasn't like over
some like like like how long would you say was
the overall recording process?

Speaker 1 (01:13:12):
So I've made a couple of trips to Minneapolis. When
I would go back to America, I would go just
to see Ant And we made a couple of songs.
But then I said, all right, I'm gonna come back
here for a month and we'll start working on it.
We made almost the whole record in that month.

Speaker 3 (01:13:25):
Wow yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:13:26):
And then some of the things I had to rewrite
and then he went in with musicians and things like that,
and so you know, but the bulk of like this
is the beat, this is the rhyme, this is the song.
The bulk of it was in a month. Wow yeah.
But it's like a lot of a lot of living,
a lot of hurting, and a lot of healing. Like
I was in a place where when I left Minneapolis,
I was at a low point in my life. I

(01:13:48):
felt really bad about a lot of stuff, and I
just had several years of like healing and growing.

Speaker 3 (01:13:55):
And I'm sure when you're in that position, there's it
just the pen just is fluid.

Speaker 1 (01:13:59):
Yeah, because it's like we got all this stuff to say,
I already know how to make it all round. Like
I've made so much music. We've made so much music together.
That's the other part.

Speaker 3 (01:14:07):
So like, yeah, it's not like you were working with
someone you you had no chemistry with or yeah, yeah,
you guys know each other's creative process.

Speaker 1 (01:14:14):
It takes thirty years to be able to make an
album in a month, and some people make an album
in a week, you.

Speaker 3 (01:14:17):
Know what I mean. Sure, but usually they're not very good.

Speaker 1 (01:14:20):
The albums that get made a week.

Speaker 3 (01:14:22):
Yeah, but no, but no, I mean it's it's it's
for me, man. I feel like, uh, you know, it's
just good when brother Ali's putting out music and hitting
the man, I appreciate that a lot because I know
you're always on the road. I'm actually gonna you're doing.
I just saw you're doing a festival in Phoenix from from.

Speaker 1 (01:14:43):
Yeah, I'm doing with Whiz the Yele. Yeah, Damni and
Marley Dilated will be there, and I'm about to do
a tour with DJ Abilities DJing for me.

Speaker 3 (01:14:53):
Oh wow.

Speaker 1 (01:14:53):
So like DMC champion. So anybody that so Idea is
one of these people that like great, amazing, tremendous. See
one of the most beautiful people we ever knew. He
died young, and he never got his flowers except for
in our world. Her people got his face tattooed on him,
but like he never got Those are the kind of
people that if you win a Grammy and your your
and your you're you learned from them. You say his name,

(01:15:18):
you say idea. Sometimes you say even if he wasn't
your favorite, even if he wasn't your friend. Those are
the kind of things that I would respect, you know.
But so this was a group of these two amazing
white dudes. A super nerdy white dude rapper that like
won the Blaze Battle on HBO and beat Puffies guys
and all this kind of stuff, and KRS one had

(01:15:39):
to give him, gave him a trophy. And then his
DJ is a movie star looking white dude like he
looks like Keanu Reeves is something buff and he's a
yoga teacher and stuff. Amazing turntable list. So these dudes
were like child prodigies, idea passed away abilities is going
to be my DJ on the next upcoming tour. So
it's like having that level of DJ. I don't even
know what to do. I don't even know where to start.

Speaker 3 (01:16:00):
You gotta give him, you got to give him a little, like,
you know, a little five minutes to go crazy, like
a Babboo, a Batboo type interlude.

Speaker 1 (01:16:06):
Yeah, I'm thinking that, you know what, that's the that's
the one to follow. Baboo would dilate.

Speaker 3 (01:16:11):
Dilated would like take a break and let Baboo just
go crazy. Yeah, man, fucking sick.

Speaker 1 (01:16:16):
Yeah, or you know. Also nowadays we have a Z
Trip in ll.

Speaker 3 (01:16:21):
Oh. Yeah, it's so dope to see Z Trip doing
it with ll because he's from my hometown. So it's like, oh,
you guys are from the same town. Yeah, we're from Arizona.

Speaker 1 (01:16:29):
Yeah, I didn't know. I knew you're both for Arizona, Yeah,
but I didn't. It's like, yeah, and Mellow Music the
we're partnering with Mellow Music on this album. Mellow Musics
in Arizona too.

Speaker 3 (01:16:37):
Yeah, shot to U, Z Trips go man. Z Trip
is a beautiful guy.

Speaker 1 (01:16:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:16:42):
So with this project, man, what for you like give
me kind of like your because you have it's it's
easy to say, like, uh, the latest shit is your
favorite shit, but this stacks up amongst some of your
best work. Would you say us is like commercially you're
big album.

Speaker 1 (01:17:01):
It's hard so from so basically I did my demo
tape in two thousand. I did my first like album
album in two thousand and three that was like underground
classic before there was before there was distribution or anything.
Like that was like one of the It's underground platinum,
you know what I mean. Shadows of the Sun, right,

(01:17:24):
Shadows of the Sun.

Speaker 3 (01:17:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:17:25):
So then the next one that I did was Undisputed Truth,
and that one was the beginning of that Warner Brothers deal.
So that was the first one to come out on
that thing. And so when that, yeah, when that came out,
I was on.

Speaker 3 (01:17:38):
The main stage at Coachella. That did Conan O'Brien.

Speaker 1 (01:17:40):
And all that kind Like there was a time when
the music industry was like, this is what I'm saying.
Also that there was times where the music industry when
they were looking for a new white guy that wasn't eminem.
That was like they were looking for a positive eminem, right.
They wanted Slug to be that. Slug chose not to
be that. From atmosphere, I was in the room when
MTV was trying to do that. Rick Rubin tried to

(01:18:03):
recruit him. They all tried to sign him, and Slug said,
I never want to blow up because I never want
to fall off. He said, I if I let you
make me a star, then you get to decide when
I'm done being a star. If I stay building my
own world. I do it as long as I want,
and he's still doing it. Yo. That's you know what
that that.

Speaker 3 (01:18:21):
Is very that's one of my I just met Slug
for the first time.

Speaker 1 (01:18:26):
Really, yeah, man, I figured you had been thoughing Slug
now I'm a big fan, but I met him.

Speaker 3 (01:18:33):
I had evidence walk me into their trailer. They had
a show out here last year with the headlined it
was Damn Dilated Living Legends Rhyme Fest. Yeah at the
LA Yeah, Rhymefest, the Homie Rymefest. Yeah, he's the homie
throws it. He's doing it again this year too. But
Scooby and two mechs Yes, yeah man. But it was

(01:18:53):
It's funny because I was like, yo, man, I was like,
I remember, like they're playing on alternative radio, yes, which
was so crazy because like I remember, yeah, like you know,
in Phoenix we had the Edge and I remember they'd
be playing Atmosphere.

Speaker 1 (01:19:08):
But I'm like, this is this is some hip hop
shit for this.

Speaker 3 (01:19:12):
And it was just dope to me because I feel like,
like when we think about the you mentioned Tech nine earlier,
I feel like Tech nine and Strange Music they got
so much like and rightfully so they got a lot
of credit for kind of being like independent pioneers. I

(01:19:32):
remember Double XL went out and did a tour of
their headquarters and it like broke a lot of people's
brains because they're.

Speaker 1 (01:19:38):
Like, this is how does this exist? How do we
not know about this?

Speaker 3 (01:19:41):
Yeah, and that's when Little Wayne shout o out tech
when he was in jail.

Speaker 1 (01:19:46):
I feel like.

Speaker 3 (01:19:47):
We don't look at in the hip hop world in
the hip hop bubble, atmosphere and rhyme sayers don't get
the same they accolades.

Speaker 1 (01:19:57):
And the respect and part of the reason for that.
So first of all, yeah, so Tech nine Atmosphere came
up around the same time. So Tech nine learned a
lot of the things that they do from insane clown
posse yes for sure, and they went on to it
with the I mean they're.

Speaker 3 (01:20:13):
Kind of like some godfathers of this independent raption for real,
to talk about the way they monetize their merch fan
base and all that.

Speaker 1 (01:20:19):
Yeah, yeah, so they went So he learned from them,
and he told the truth about it, you know what
I mean. But his ability to rhyme just far surpasses them.
No dis to them, They're just not top tier lyricists,
where Tech nine is a technician, like there's a reason
he's an alien level rapper. I mean, he really truly is,

(01:20:40):
and he built it independently. Live show is incredible. Live
show is incredible, the everything that they did, like, no
one is more dedicated to their craft than Tech nine.
So the difference though, between Atmosphere and Tech nine is
that Tech nine decided, no, y'all are going to y'all
are going to recognize he cared, he said, and so
he went out and fought for that. Atmosphere is like,

(01:21:00):
I don't care who recognizes me. No, you're right about that.
We don't care how we don't care who you think.

Speaker 3 (01:21:04):
That's it because tech really gave a fuck. And I
remember there was like that point in time where Tech
nine was on the Carter four yep, and you would
see like, oh, he's doing a record. I mean, and
Tech was always doing records with like forty and Cube
and like certain like, but it was like.

Speaker 1 (01:21:25):
I think he has a I feel like he has
a record with Pop.

Speaker 3 (01:21:28):
He might. I know they were on the same soundtrack
back in the day, Okay, but I remember he had
a an.

Speaker 1 (01:21:33):
Now Roger Troutman. He's got like early.

Speaker 3 (01:21:36):
Well, he had an album called All Sixes and Sevens
that dropped in twenty twelve, but that was the album
that came out that there was the Wayne hype. Wayne
shouted him out while Wayne was incarcerated, and then all
these like you would just like like he was fighting.
He was like, no, young motherfuckers are gonna give me.
You might just do and then you know shit. However,
many platinum and gold records later, like shout out, shout
out to tech Man. But I think I think we

(01:21:57):
got to give Atmosphere and Slug and and and and
what y'all boys are doing in Minneapolis, like real, like.

Speaker 1 (01:22:03):
I believe the Atmosphere is one of the greatest and
the most the greatest, most unsung group in hip hop.
No one's made more music than them, no one has
toured more than them, and what they to and including
you know this conversation where I'm like people that come
later and benefit that don't give credit. Slug couldn't care less.
He's like, I don't care nobody exactly. He's like, oh
two O one O two oh two. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:22:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:22:26):
So they came out for the first time in ninety seven,
but that was the first official release, but they've been
doing stuff before.

Speaker 3 (01:22:32):
That's gotta be double triple platinum, you would think, I
don't know. That just feels like one of those albums
that like we'll live on, Like they could do it
every every five years. They could do an anniversary vinyl
every it'll sell out every year. It's twenty fifth anniversary,
it's a twenty anniversary, it's the twenty six exactly, yeah,
twenty third. Yeah, so yeah, God loves Ugly Seven's travels.

(01:22:52):
They just did an anniversary for You can't imagine how
much fun we're having, which is my personal favorite one.
But in that period, like I think I'm the biggest
Atmosphere fan or Earth Out Fight anybody about it. And
let's not forget about Slug and Merse two well three
classic albums. I'd like the first two, but yes, I
mean Felt Shit was amazing.

Speaker 1 (01:23:09):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, you know, and what
they inspired. So their way of doing things inspired a
whole movement from whether they know it directly or not.
And I've talked to a bunch of these people, but
kind of what happened started happening independently in the blog era,
you know, even to a certain degree, like Whiz Khalifa,
and you know, there was a lot of inspiration from

(01:23:31):
I mean, Dame Dash was mentoring people at that time.
There was a lot of things going on at that time.
But those guys booking agent was this person I'm talking
about named Zach Quillen who I was his first. I was,
I was his first very serious like sine as his
as a booking agent, and he really fought for me,
and he also really fought for this approach to music.

(01:23:52):
And so who's don't make me go pop? The trunk
on a yellow Wolf? Yellow Wolf was was was his sign.
A lot of those people that came out around that,
like that era of like twenty two thousand and nine,
twenty ten.

Speaker 3 (01:24:07):
Yeah, that blog era, that real. That was like the
meat and potatoes the blog era.

Speaker 1 (01:24:11):
Yeah, their touring career was in a lot of ways
inspired indirectly from Atmosphere.

Speaker 3 (01:24:17):
Yeah, someone like Yellow's done a good job of building
his own world that he could just exist in forever
if he wants, you know, he.

Speaker 1 (01:24:23):
Tour forever, he could drop albums forever.

Speaker 3 (01:24:25):
And you know, obviously on a different, different thing than
obviously what we're talking about with Atmosphere, because I feel
like Rhyme Sayers is a company. I wish they would
have kept the festival going. J Cole did it one year, right,
Cold did it. Kendrick did it.

Speaker 1 (01:24:40):
And one of the things is that they were really
good at calling it early on people, so a lot
of people did it right before they blew up.

Speaker 3 (01:24:45):
Yeah, the year before they blew up. Yeah, my boy
Peter Parker was out. I was just texting in Peter Parker,
great guy. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:24:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:24:52):
Also that's my I always give him his flowers because
I I he was the first radio person outy I
saw on YouTube, like in like full B ninety.

Speaker 1 (01:25:02):
Six was it B ninety six?

Speaker 2 (01:25:03):
Uh?

Speaker 3 (01:25:03):
And Go ninety five? No, No, Go ninety I'm talking
about back in the day. Go ninety five was more recent. Yeah,
but he had like the full YouTube the whole video
camera set up in their studio. So I'd be like, yeah, oh,
they're doing fucking YouTube videos with their.

Speaker 1 (01:25:17):
Streams and she was having freestyles all that stuff. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:25:20):
He was just stuck in Minnesota withple what to do. Yeah,
and then they did a dope thing with Go. It
didn't work out long term, but they had a new
approach to radio where they were just like, we're just
gonna play this shit we want to play and it
was cool and uh, you know, shout out to Yeah.
Minneapolis has always kind of been like that cool city
that like flies under the radar, but it's like it's
a great music town.

Speaker 1 (01:25:41):
Great I mean, fucking Prince. What are we talking about, Prince?
I mean Mint Condition. Yeah, and Jimmy jam and Terry Lewis.
Like Jimmy, jim and Terry Lewis, I'm of the greatest
producers of Lizzo has roots in Minneapolis. Lizzo made her
her thing happen in Minneapolis. Like I was there for
all of that. Yeah, I saw all of that. Yeah,
Lizzo is she's from Texas, but where Minneapolis where she cracked.

Speaker 3 (01:26:03):
Minneapolis where she learned how to do what she did,
Not that she owes it to anybody in particular.

Speaker 1 (01:26:09):
Her thing is a lot more.

Speaker 3 (01:26:11):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:26:12):
It's interesting though, that her whole like I'm big and
I love myself anyway. You know, the song that did
it for me was called Forrest Whitaker, which is basically
like I'm albino and I love myself anyway. It's a
very similar kind of thing, but it's not.

Speaker 3 (01:26:27):
She wasn't up in our mix like learned studying everything
and that, but she was in she was a.

Speaker 1 (01:26:31):
Part of that world. Yeah, sure, yeah, she was part
of that world. And she did a project with one
of the other labels. It's called Doom Tree and there's
a guy on that producer on that label, kind of.

Speaker 3 (01:26:42):
Like the aunt of their from out there too. Yeah.
And Minneapolis is like fucking just the backpack paradise.

Speaker 1 (01:26:51):
It really is, and I mean for everybody, and also
every touring band or comedian knows that, Like when we
get to Minneapolis, we're have a good night.

Speaker 3 (01:27:00):
That's everybody's I always feel like it's Minneapolis and Denver.

Speaker 1 (01:27:04):
Oh yeah, Denver is Denver is rich now though, so
there's Denver got big time on everybody.

Speaker 3 (01:27:09):
Denver's like a great just you have to go to Denver,
You have to go to Minneapolis so many venues, and
I feel like fans show up in those cities for
some reason. They just show up.

Speaker 1 (01:27:18):
There's a culture of like okay, man there, Yeah, they're
making music like we gotta all go be part of it,
and like they know how to be an audience. They
also expect a good show, have you done Red Rocks, Yeah,
many times.

Speaker 3 (01:27:30):
How amazing is Red Rocks? I've never been. I'm gonna
try to go soon. I think Wiz is doing something
at Red Rocks on four.

Speaker 1 (01:27:38):
You know, and profits from Minneapolis.

Speaker 3 (01:27:41):
Prof shout, it's a prop man prophets, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:27:43):
It's funny.

Speaker 3 (01:27:44):
There's two or three times he was supposed to come
on the pod and then ended up getting rescheduled or
I just didn't end up working out. But Profits another prolific.

Speaker 1 (01:27:53):
Very talented person, very hard working guy. He's another one
that like everyone that knows him loves him. I don't
know him like that, but there's definitely a mutual respect
every time I see him as like, I know what
it means to work as hard as you're working and
to be as dedicated and man extremely And he's another
one that he had a period where he was connected
to rhymes all.

Speaker 3 (01:28:14):
Time, great white rapper city ever in Minneapolis. Well I
never thought about that before. It's true though, Yo, So
you said, so you already planning the next tour, then
if you already got abilities locked in.

Speaker 1 (01:28:30):
And yeah, so the tour that tour is announced, that'll
be April and May, and then I just announced I'm
going to do a week in the UK and we
have other European stuff coming and Australia will be coming
soon announcing soon.

Speaker 3 (01:28:43):
That's dope, man, Are you? Are you? Like? For you
is the when you put an album out like this
and you get so much off your chest? Right? Are
you the type of person that needs some more living
to be inspired for the next thing? It's great I
used to be or do you still have like some
more like obviously it's what about four years since the
last album.

Speaker 1 (01:29:03):
Well, so we did the Love and Service album that
nobody knew about that was just a year ago.

Speaker 3 (01:29:06):
Okay, that was a year ago.

Speaker 1 (01:29:07):
Yeah, so but yeah, my last like major release was
twenty nineteen Crazy.

Speaker 3 (01:29:14):
And is that your last album with yep?

Speaker 1 (01:29:17):
Yeah, yeah, And so I've done some projects in between them,
but like, yeah, this is the first like main release.
But yeah, I don't think it's going to be as
long now because of the fact that I have my
own outlet, like now, I control my own so like
I can literally.

Speaker 3 (01:29:33):
Yeah, like if you get inspired and want to drop
an EP in six months, so you could just like
we're gonna do it.

Speaker 1 (01:29:38):
And then also I know that I will see every
sale come in and it will all go directly to
me and my partner. So bk One, who is the
DJ you saw with us back then. H He DJ'ed
for me and Evidence back then. So he was my
first DJ and he comes from radio. He is the
one that introduced me to rhyme. Sayers like the closest
thing I got to a Day one and he was

(01:29:58):
with me in a rhyme series Days. He made a
really dope record called Radio Da Kinaball with Brazilian samples
and Man Doom and Black Thought and Scarfacer on it.
It's a dope album. So he did that and then
he left the road and he started an anti racist
radio station, Low Watt radio station in Minneapolis. This guy

(01:30:19):
is dope. So when I stepped away from rhyme stares
and moved to Turkey, I just let him know. I
was like, I'm going to start my own podcast. I'm
gonna start my own operations. I want to write, I
want to teach, I want to do so and so.
And he's like, yeah, I'll do that with you. Like
what you mean, like along with your He's like, no,
I'm leaving the radio station anyway. I'm going to dedicate
my life to this again. Oh yeah, man, So you

(01:30:39):
guys are together. So now it's different when you release
music and you put it out and you go on
Spotify for artists and you watch the streams, and then
you go on destroy Kid on your phone and you
watch the money, and then you go on Shopify and
you watch the merch and then you go on your
website and you watch the thing, and then you go
to your bank account and it all it's all there. Yeah,

(01:31:02):
and then you split it with one person who is
dedicating his life to this work the same as you are.
It's just clean, it's nice. It's you know. And shoutut
to Alchemist because when I told Alchemists I was thinking
about doing that, he was like, call me and he
sat on the phone with me for an hour. Just
try to do that. Don't don't, don't don't do this.

Speaker 3 (01:31:22):
Yeah, look quietest, cap Al's been running it up with alc.
Whether it's the I mean on the Vinyl front ols
killing it man. You know, obviously I don't know if
you hear I mean the new two chains Larry june
aut Me put out. It's incredible. I think it might
have came out the same day. Your album dropped a
week before. H Yeah, yeah, I came out the same
day as Westside Gun. Yeah. Shout out to Al though.
Al is uh Man just the just the best.

Speaker 1 (01:31:45):
And he has an album coming with yam Bay. I've
not heard it. I've never heard anything. Yeah, I've heard
it though, is it crazy? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:31:55):
Man?

Speaker 1 (01:31:55):
Yeah, Seen was sending me the songs as they were
making them. Oh man, and so yeah, I mean they
did a black Blackstar album. You know.

Speaker 3 (01:32:01):
I know a lot of people didn't get to hear
it because it wasn't on DSPs. But the Lives Blackstar.
I'm a solid man, but I love man. If I
could get Yasine Bay what the Alchemist for a whole album,
I will pay any amount of money.

Speaker 1 (01:32:14):
For that when you're about to and yeah yeah, and
I mean yah, Seen is really against DSPs.

Speaker 3 (01:32:19):
He's like that is I get it, though, I get it,
And I think, you know, you want to give a
shout out to Larussell. L Russell's doing a good job
of kind of rethinking, like I guess, kind of the
business model approach to like music. It's like, hey, like
you know you can buy it or wait a while
and then it'll end up on DSPs. You know.

Speaker 1 (01:32:39):
Yeah, rock Marcy did that. Yeah, is another person that
does not. I mean, for as much as we love
him he is, he doesn't get the credit. He's the
goat in a certain sure, sure, you know he's not struggling,
he's doing very well. But man, rock Marcy is another
one of those guys that like, man, let's tell the truth.
Let's tell the truth about I love Griselda, but it's

(01:32:59):
like when Griselda gets your shine, you have to you
have to tell you have to talk about rock Marcy.
Don't try to hide that, ye don't hide that. That's
what colonialism is, That's what slavery is about. That's what
the culture is. Where you love the people you come
from and learn from their grind helps you, Your shine

(01:33:20):
helps them.

Speaker 3 (01:33:21):
Don't talk to Conway a lot about I know Conway's
giving it up to Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:33:25):
Maybe they have and then forgive me if I don't mean,
I'm not trying to.

Speaker 3 (01:33:28):
But no, but rock Marcy's kind of the goat of
that world in terms of especially in terms of just
kind of just cultivating like fans and turning that into monetization, merch,
et cetera. Like obviously Griselda has built their own world,
you know.

Speaker 1 (01:33:41):
And then you see that like man Ca died and
kr was another one of those voices. That's like anybody
getting shine in that world, especially if you came after
the ten years of work that that Rock Marcy and
Cod did, like man Car worked a regular job, right
so that he could make that type of music. It's like, dude, that,

(01:34:02):
like you can't take that away from each other. Like, Okay, Elvis,
you're great, you shake your butt. You're white and you
can still shake your butt. Great, right, great, none wrong
with that. That doesn't make you a bad guy. But
Big Mama Thornton had to be black in America in
the nineteen twenties and that's why. And like she's sang
like that. So just when somebody is saying, hey, you

(01:34:22):
ain't in, but a hound dog is dope, be like yeah,
shot out to Big Mama Thornton, Like that's it. What's
wrong with that? What the hell is wrong with that?
And then the whole time that Rock Marcy is like man,
people are writing him off and counting him out, and
I mean he says it all the time, and he's
got the right to talk like that. Because like, yeah,
when people are putting shakers and cow bells in their
beats trying to be the Neptunes, He's like, Yo, I'm

(01:34:44):
looping this and I'm rapping over it. Yeah, and it's
no drums fifteen bpm slower than what everybody's doing. And
they're like, yo, you, but you could have a record deal,
not if I got to make music like I don't.

Speaker 3 (01:34:56):
Want to make that.

Speaker 1 (01:34:57):
Yeah, I don't want to I don't want to make
the Neptunes, but I want to do this. And then
kay is doing that, and he's got to work a
job and so that he can be that free. Kle's like, look,
you're not gonna tell me. I'm not doing this for
my fans. I'm doing this because it's the music in
my heart. If KAYI has to work a job and
do all of that, then when we benefit from that,

(01:35:19):
we just got to say we got to make that
a part of it. Every time I'm rhyman is Ka.
You know, I love Action Bronson. It's like when he
got angry when people kept telling him ghost face. Yeah
I remember.

Speaker 3 (01:35:31):
I think he probably regrets again beautiful because he was
it on ESPN or say it was all somewhere random.

Speaker 1 (01:35:38):
But I feel like he probably he got tired of
hearing it. But it's like, Okay, your voices are the
same register. He's not faking his voice when you hear
him talk, He's amazing.

Speaker 3 (01:35:48):
For yourself.

Speaker 1 (01:35:50):
I'm eating schnail pigeons with sew and so like I'm saying, like,
he's amazing. And he's a nice person, hard working person,
talented person. He's not a punk. He's a beautiful dude. Nothing.
But it's like, Okay, yes, you have the same register.
Ghost Face came up for all these years showing you
how to use a voice that sounds like that. So

(01:36:10):
and if you're gonna sound that much like him, then yeah,
you're gonna hear his name a lot. And you can't
be mad about that. Like that you got you gotta
discipline the ego to win, you know what I'm saying.
When I came out, people told me I sound like
Pharaoh Munch. And then one day I'm sitting there rapping
on the wake up show and I'm going in and
da da da da da. I opened my eyes and
there's Pharaoh Monch And I said, oh, man, I said

(01:36:33):
on the white people, man people have been telling me
I sound like you. I love you. I said, do
I sound like you? He said, Man, somebody showed me
your picture and said, this guy sounds like you. And
I was like, all right, now, I don't know about
all that, but he's but then he's like, then I
heard you. And we're friends now. And to this day,
if anybody ever asked me, I'm not I don't have
I'm not more famous than him either. But it's like, man,

(01:36:56):
any white person that doesn't know Pharaoh Monch, it's like
you don't get to say, man, you're so soulful in
the sing song y Da Da Da da da, Well
that's cause of Pharaoh, Munch and Chuck d and y'all
seen and Kwali and common and you know what I mean.
If there's ever anybody that celebrates me, and I know
that you're also celebrating my lineage, I'm proud to be

(01:37:18):
from a lineage. I hope I'm worthy of that lineage.
I hope I'm worthy of you know what I mean.
Those people seem to approve of me, for sure, you
know what I mean. And if they didn't, I would
be I would be not just seeking approval for the
approvals sake, But it's like if these are people's real life, Like,

(01:37:38):
if you're really an artist, you know the blood, sweat
and tears you're pouring to figuring out how to make
it sound like this, And so if somebody else has
done that work, it's like, man, I will never be
out here gallivat and taking shine that from stuff I
learned from you. And if you are an artist, you
know what you added. So Eminem is like, yeah, play

(01:38:00):
play Tretch from Naughty by Nature, not the hits, play
Wickedest Man, Alive by Trench, and play anything from a
g rap and Red Man. You're gonna hear what I
learned from them. You're also gonna hear what Eminem brought
because he also brought something, so he's comfortable and confident.
He's like, yes, red Man on my T shirt, Go
listen to Red Man, go listen a month.

Speaker 3 (01:38:19):
Well, I think even on like eminem show where he
listed uh uh he had that line was it until
I Collapse where he mentioned like the best of like
the greatest of all time list and then and then
he said and he mentioned all these rappers and then
put himself at the end, and then me, I think
it was like corrupt red Man.

Speaker 1 (01:38:38):
But but he.

Speaker 3 (01:38:38):
Always I think Eminem has always did a good job
of paying homage. And if you know anything about Eminem,
like literally his entire come up is like that of
like a backpack rapper for real, like fucking.

Speaker 1 (01:38:47):
He comes from the culture and this there's he was
on Soundbomban too, you know, like there's a difference with
any man great with people. Yeah, any man that jump
in front of a mini band, he's on the.

Speaker 3 (01:38:57):
It's funny because he was on the cover of Soundbomban too,
like there was like an illustrated picture of him. Yes,
that's right, yeah, right, Oh my god, one of the
best mixtapes ever. Shout out to fucking Jay rock and
uh bat boo absolutely man, that was shout to be
junkies down by the Lyricist Lounge, good time. All right,
So you got the albums out? Uh, you're doing a podcast?
How often you dropping on the on.

Speaker 1 (01:39:18):
The podcast every week except for when we don't Okay,
that's a good answer. Almost every week? Okay, cool? And
you know all of it's at brother Aley dot com.

Speaker 3 (01:39:27):
Hitting and hitting the road in a couple of months, uh,
doing some festivals and obviously the tour with abilities, so
that'll be dope.

Speaker 2 (01:39:33):
Man.

Speaker 3 (01:39:34):
I appreciate you pulling up the album is incredible, Thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:39:37):
It is and I love the title.

Speaker 3 (01:39:39):
It felt like it and I'm really proud of you.

Speaker 1 (01:39:44):
Thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:39:44):
I appreciate that, man.

Speaker 1 (01:39:46):
Yeah, the way that you the way that you engage artists,
the way you talk to them.

Speaker 3 (01:39:51):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:39:51):
Of course there's viral moments with you said he got
a million dollars scholarship or something to play like. That
was great, But I was just like you you there's
something that seems so simple. It seems like why you fit.
There's just something about people that come from, you know,
the dominant culture and care about the humanity of the

(01:40:12):
artists that they're talking to and the artistry. You know
what I mean. And that's obvious. It's always been I
knew that. Yeah. For me, I'm just a fan dude,
you know.

Speaker 3 (01:40:18):
So it's like I'm a fan first and and you know,
like you said, something that you said about Atmosphere resonated
with me. I could chase virality more because I could
live in the trenches of like.

Speaker 1 (01:40:32):
You're not messing, yes, but I'm good, and you don't
encourage the the the what you're focusing on with these
mostly black artists that you talk to, is their life,
their humanity, their genius. You're not a person who is
looking for them to be to be a lesser version
of themselves because it'll benefit your platform, not naming names,

(01:40:55):
but there are people that that.

Speaker 3 (01:40:57):
Yeah, I just I just you know, I'm also like
that's the other thing. There's just certain certain stuff I
can't do because just of how I live, where I'm who.

Speaker 1 (01:41:04):
I'm with, and it's natural and it's natural to It's
very natural.

Speaker 3 (01:41:07):
So I appreciate that. Love Man, Thank You album is incredible.
Vinyls available yep.

Speaker 1 (01:41:11):
And start shipping in like a week or something. We
just just came in from Czech Republic. Brent Rollins did
the design. Legendary Guy did the Boys in the Hood logo.
B Plus from out Here shot the photos. So like Man,
the art is like a real, like tactile experience, Like
that feels a certain way, and I really dope.

Speaker 3 (01:41:29):
I love the man, So go go support and I
appreciate you pulling up man father Ali. There it is