Dr. Joseph E. Capizzi discusses the death of Pope Francis

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Alabama's Morning News. I'm JT and joining us now Dean
an Ordinary Professor of Moral Theology and the School of
Theology and Religious Studies at the Catholic University of America.
Professor Joseph Caprizy is with us. Doctor Caprizy, thank you
so much for being here.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
My pleasure.

Speaker 1 (00:15):
Happy to be with you. Well, I'm glad to talk
to you as we remember Pope Francis at at the
age of eighty eight, passing the day after Easter, ironically
the holiest day in the celebration for Christians. And there
were two sides to this pope in my mind, your
thoughts first of all on the human being and the

(00:38):
man he was, as far as his humility and care
for those less fortunate around the world.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
Yeah, from the very moment he was elected Pope and
took the name Pope Francis, you know, after Saint Francis,
who is a sort of paradigmatic figure of humility. The
Pope embraced being humble as the servant of the church
in the role of the papacy, and he did that

(01:06):
throughout his entire papacy. He was extraordinarily accessible to people,
and if you think of the most memorable images of him,
it's you know, him embracing profoundly disabled people or visiting prisons,
being with people who typically are on the outside of
the center of society. And that was also his teaching magisterium,

(01:26):
you know, constantly sort of reaching out to people by
doctrine that we all ought to be embracing, unsettling ourselves
and so on. So humility was an extraordinarily central component
of who he was as the pope.

Speaker 1 (01:41):
He also took some heat and some controversy when it
came to the progressive or liberal stances on social issues
around the globe, including divorce, women in the leadership roles,
and also same sex marriage. And who am I to judge,
and you know, with priests and their orientations your thoughts
on this as they can. I hear you know, people

(02:04):
from you know, the Vatican and people in the Catholic
Church in whether are priests or bishops, and talking about
the conclave that will take place and choosing the next pope.
Nobody knows who it's going to be. Nobody knows which
direction the church will continue to go in or change course.
But you know, he opened the door for some consideration.

(02:28):
That is he really preaching God's word in scripture and
more emphasis on just preach the word of God. And
then people come back, Well, it depends on your interpretation
of scripture. I think God's pretty clear on all these positions,
don't you.

Speaker 2 (02:42):
Yeah, And in fact, no teaching has changed under Pope Francis.
You know. So he managed to some extent to disappoint
people on the you know, the far outside of both edges.
You know, there were some who thought, oh, he's going
to change you know, church teaching on divorce, some remarried Catholics,
or on same sex marriages and so on, and ultimately

(03:05):
he didn't, you know. So he said things for sure,
off you know the cuff, often in interviews on the
plane early in his papacy that really confused a lot
of people and or created expectation, Oh, the church is
finally going to you know, get with it. But ultimately
the Church's teachings are where they've always been. And he

(03:29):
foiled people who had expectations one way or the other.
He was constantly unsettling everybody and calling them to sort
of witness to the gospel. Are you being Christian enough?
Are you bringing Christ to people? Even people that challenge
you on a kind of doctrinal level. You still need

(03:50):
to meet them as you know and love them in
the way that Christ loves us. I mean, that was
the consistent message that he had in his papacy.

Speaker 1 (03:58):
Well you know, he's washed feet of those in detention centers.
And I think he did leave the humble life. He
didn't choose the big suite at the Vatican. Pope John
had built another quarters that was more I guess humble
and more of a one room facility that he lived in.
And I think he chose public transportation versus the limousines.

(04:20):
And I think he lived his life and the fruit
was there for sure that he was extremely christ Like.
And even like you said, the fringe where our division
between conservative and progressive politically speaking, takes us in so
many different bizarre thought process on the fringe on both sides,

(04:40):
that yeah, he tried, I think to put it aside
as all the cardinals come together. A lot of these
cardinals that are coming into the Vatican to go into
conclave to pick the next pope, a lot of them
don't even address or concern themselves with the politics of
the world because they're too busy doing guts in christ
movement in living out the lights that God wants us

(05:03):
to for others, they don't concern themselves with the fringe. Well,
will that be a point that will I guess, portray
for the world to see more than the controversial side
of things.

Speaker 2 (05:17):
Yeah. And I think part of your point too is
that not everything is American, right and here we are
we you know, we're having an interview as Americans, you know,
to an American audience, and the vast majority of the
churches outside of the United States of America, and when
the cardinals come together to elect the next pope, they're
going to be coming from among the most vibrant places

(05:40):
where the church is right now, and that's like Africa,
Latin America, and East Asia, and they'll be bringing their concerns,
the concerns of their people into that conversation. So there
will be a kind of global perspective, a universal perspective
that often, you know, we're just not as familiar with andolitics.

Speaker 1 (06:00):
But there's still stability. You know.

Speaker 2 (06:02):
This is the funny thing about all of this is that,
you know, we the world is so divided right now,
especially in the media, especially social media, within the media,
and we just forget that. If you look back and
you see the line just starting from let's say, Pope
John Paul the Second through Benedict to Francis, there there
are multiple lines of continuity there, focusing on the way

(06:24):
we engage creation, you know, and ecological concerns. That's there
in John Paul the Second and Benedict, who's called the
Green Pope, and Pope Francis focusing on growing income disparities
across the globe. Right, I mean, that's something that all
three of those popes and popes before them were concerned about.

Speaker 1 (06:44):
You know.

Speaker 2 (06:44):
So there's there are obvious lines of continuity there, but
that's not as interesting the most of us. You know, well,
what's this continuous you know, where where is he going
away from you know, church teaching and so on.

Speaker 3 (06:56):
And it's not to say, you know that again, he
didn't say confusing things. He did, you know, he said
things at times that seemed to suggest, oh my gosh,
he's you know, something's about to be upset that you know,
it's two thousand years old, and it turns out, remember,
he condemned, he condemned the gender ideology of the world, right,
I mean, you know, so this is not somebody who's

(07:16):
a progressive.

Speaker 1 (07:17):
No, you're right. At the end of the day, he
did not make any changes as far as the Catholic
Church's teachings or the movement or direction that they were
going to go. You're absolutely right about that. But yeah, boy,
he raised some eyebrows for sure. Thank you so much,
doctor Joseph Caupsia. I appreciate your insight this morning. It's
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