Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's beginning to sound a lot like the holidays. The
Roku Channel your home for free and premium TV is
giving you access to holiday music and genre base stations
from iHeart All for free. Find this soundtrack of the
season with channels like iHeart Christmas and North Pole Radio.
The Roku Channel is available on all Roku devices, Web, Amazon, fireTV,
(00:21):
Google TV, Samsung TVs, and the Roku Mobile app on
iOS and Android devices. So stream what you love and
tiron up that sheere with iHeartRadio on the Roku Channel.
Happy streaming.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
I bet you're smart.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Yeah, and you like to hold your own In the
group chat.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
We can help you drop even more knowledge. My name
is Martine Powers and I'm a la Heye Azati. We
host a daily news podcast called Post Reports every weekday afternoon.
Post Reports takes you inside an important and interesting story
or the kind of reporting that you can only get
from the Washington Post. You can listen to Post Reports
wherever you get your podcasts. Go find it now and
(00:59):
hit follow up.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
After the movie Free Willie became a hit, word got
out that the star of the film, a killer whale
named Keko, was sick and still living in a tiny
pool in a Mexican amusement park. Fans were outraged, kids
demanded his release. I'm Danielle Dragon from Serial Productions. In
the New York Times comes the Goodwill, a story about
the wildly ambitious science experiment to return Keko to the ocean.
(01:23):
Listen to new episodes on Thursdays. Want early access to
the whole show, subscribed at The Times at ny Times
dot com, Slash podcast to listen on Apple podcasts and Spotify.
Speaker 5 (01:32):
Now, our friend, doctor Karl Lieberman is back with us,
a forensic psychiatrist, to talk about a couple of cases. Here.
We'll start with Lake and Riley and then Coburger. Uh. Doctor,
welcome back in good to have you.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 5 (01:43):
Well, I got to tell you the Lake and Riley
murder case was just so sad, I mean just horrific
on the side that this guy's an animal. But you
look at the family and you look at Lake and Riley,
and the girl's going on for a little jog around
a lake, and you know she's got to be scared.
They want to Biden's your league got through and as
a criminal comes out and kills her in the way
that he did. I mean just horrible situation. And I'm
(02:07):
completely down with the judge's decision on the guilty verdicts.
You know, the guy waving the jury, that liberal DA
that decided not to pursue the death penalty is a
bit troublesome. But the DNA and all of this, I mean,
clearly you know this guy was guilty.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Yes, there was no question about it. And you know,
seeing her family and her friends giving statements, you know,
before the sentencing, I mean you could just tell how
much she was loved. And I mean she was a
nursing student. It's like she was sort of the pure
she was going off for a job, to do something
healthy for herself. I mean, all of these things point
(02:44):
in the direction of like angelic, you know. And then
there he was, and he hardly he really didn't change
his facial expression during the whole trial. And yeah, even
when these people were crying and all that, you know,
they were, and he just he just looked at them like,
you know, like he couldn't care less. And then even
(03:06):
when the judge was telling him his sentence life in
prison without role, he still didn't make any facial movements.
I mean it was like it was like nobody's home.
Speaker 5 (03:18):
Yeah, I don't understand. I mean, the guy's a psychopath.
He's just you know, deranged, he's evil, he's everything that
needs to be culled out of the herd and taken away.
And he's here illegally. He lived with his brothers. Who
knows what they're up to. Yeah, you know, I guess
he was married to. His wife helped turn him in
(03:39):
and you know, pinpoint him. Thank god, she had the
smart watch on in her phone, and that really kind
of laid out the timeline of what happened. They had
the video surveillance of the dumpster where he dumped his
clothes or took something out or put something in it,
and DNA of him and her on that whole thing.
The brother, you know, he's in here. The green card fraud. Uh,
(04:02):
the whole thing, The whole thing is just a mess here.
So yeah, listen, I went I went to play just
a quick clip. Here's our Momlake and Riley's mom. After
this whole thing, there.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Is no end to the pain, suffering and loss that
we have experienced or will continue to endure.
Speaker 5 (04:19):
It's horrible what it has done to this family. And
as you mentioned, Carol, that. Yeah, this guy just sat
there stoic, like he had nothing.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Going on, and yeah, like they weren't talking about him.
Speaker 5 (04:30):
Well, you know, one guy, one guy that could face
the death penalty, Brian Coburger, and the you know, slaying
and murder and horrific death of those four students in
the University of Idaho came out yesterday. They're going for
the death penalty on this one.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
Yes. Yes, the judge broke through his denial. I believe
you know, you would never think. I mean, he thought
that he was going to get away with this. I
think he to some degree, he still thinks that, but
I think he was awakened to some degree when the
judge put the kept the death penalty on the table.
(05:05):
You know, it was like, all of a sudden, it
seemed really real.
Speaker 5 (05:08):
Well, it needs to be the death penalty and it
needed to be in the death penalty for this guy
in Georgia too.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
Yes it did, ye, yes, it did.
Speaker 5 (05:15):
Just horrible and the guy has zero case. I do
believe Coburger his alibi. I love this, What do you think, Well, yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
His alibio that he was driving and looking at the stars.
Speaker 5 (05:26):
Yeah, he was out late night, driving alone, yeah, we
know that. That's why he's under arrest. So where do
you think do you think this case has the possibility
of going a different direction than we wanted to?
Speaker 3 (05:39):
Well, I don't know that he's going to get the
death penalty because you know, he's young, and there might
well be some jurors who thinks that, yes, of course
we killed four people. I mean that certainly, if that
doesn't get the death penalty, then what does But I
could see there being wonder who you know, where it
is unanimous, But I will see his attorney is really,
(06:01):
you know, doing a lot of work, I mean, really
going whole hog. I'm sure she was pretty surprised too
that they put the death penalty back on the table.
But you know, the thing with her, though, is that
she represented two of the parents, one parent each of
two of the victims. And whatever happens in this trial,
(06:23):
I mean, presumably he's going to be found guilty, but
whatever happens, there's this this appeal possibility where some lawyers
will say, well, you know, she didn't really do she
could have done better. It was in effective assistance of
counsel because she really had some feelings for the two
parents who she had helped in the past.
Speaker 5 (06:44):
Wow, isn't that a conflict of interest? Shouldn't she recused
herself from this to begin with?
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Yes, absolutely, But you know, there was a lot of
money to be made on this because because it's many,
many hours of work, so.
Speaker 5 (06:58):
You think, you know, an appeal process is imminent in
this especially obviously with the death penalty it's an automatic.
But just the fact that she'd represented some of the
victim's parents and helped them in another case. I mean,
that's crazy that she's doing this and they allowed that
to take place. All right, Well, Carol, I appreciate you.
I'm going to have you back. I do want to
talk to you maybe soon about this whole case with
(07:20):
Daniel Penny, the guy in the subway that is now
in going through trial. But another time, another conversation. Thank you, doctor,
Carol Leberman, and happy Thanksgiving by the.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Way to you too.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
It's beginning to sound a lot like the holidays. The
Roku channel your home for free and Premium TV is
giving you access to holiday music and genre base stations
from iHeart all for free. Find this soundtrack of the
season with channels like iHeart Christmas and North Pole Radio.
The Roku Channel is available on all Roku devices, Web, Amazon, fireTV,
(07:53):
Google TV, Samsung TVs, and the Roku mobile app on
iOS and Android devices. So stream what you love and
sern up that sheere with iHeartRadio on the Roku channel.
Happy streaming.
Speaker 6 (08:05):
I have a way to make your morning more efficient.
You can get caught up on the news in about
seven minutes. That is my promise to you as the
host of the Seven podcast from the Washington Post. And
in that time I will run down seven stories, everything
from the most important headlines to fascinating new information you
might miss otherwise. My name's Hannah juwele go follow the
(08:28):
Seven right now wherever you're listening, and we will get
you caught up.
Speaker 4 (08:35):
After the movie Free Willie became a hit, word got
out that the star of the film, a killer whale
named Keiko, was sick and still living in a tiny
pool in a Mexican amusement park. Fans were outraged, kids
demanded his release. I'm Danielle Racon from Serial Productions. In
the New York Times, comes the Goodwill, a story about
the wildly ambitious science experiment to return Keiko to the ocean.
(08:56):
Listen to New episodes on Thursdays. Want early access to
the whole show, subscribe The Times at ny times dot com,
slash podcasts to listen on Apple podcasts and Spotify.
It's beginning to sound a lot like the holidays. The
Roku Channel your home for free and premium TV is
giving you access to holiday music and genre base stations
from iHeart All for free. Find this soundtrack of the
season with channels like iHeart Christmas and North Pole Radio.
The Roku Channel is available on all Roku devices, Web, Amazon, fireTV,
(00:21):
Google TV, Samsung TVs, and the Roku Mobile app on
iOS and Android devices. So stream what you love and
tiron up that sheere with iHeartRadio on the Roku Channel.
Happy streaming.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
I bet you're smart.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Yeah, and you like to hold your own In the
group chat.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
We can help you drop even more knowledge. My name
is Martine Powers and I'm a la Heye Azati. We
host a daily news podcast called Post Reports every weekday afternoon.
Post Reports takes you inside an important and interesting story
or the kind of reporting that you can only get
from the Washington Post. You can listen to Post Reports
wherever you get your podcasts. Go find it now and
(00:59):
hit follow up.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
After the movie Free Willie became a hit, word got
out that the star of the film, a killer whale
named Keko, was sick and still living in a tiny
pool in a Mexican amusement park. Fans were outraged, kids
demanded his release. I'm Danielle Dragon from Serial Productions. In
the New York Times comes the Goodwill, a story about
the wildly ambitious science experiment to return Keko to the ocean.
(01:23):
Listen to new episodes on Thursdays. Want early access to
the whole show, subscribed at The Times at ny Times
dot com, Slash podcast to listen on Apple podcasts and Spotify.
Speaker 5 (01:32):
Now, our friend, doctor Karl Lieberman is back with us,
a forensic psychiatrist, to talk about a couple of cases. Here.
We'll start with Lake and Riley and then Coburger. Uh. Doctor,
welcome back in good to have you.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 5 (01:43):
Well, I got to tell you the Lake and Riley
murder case was just so sad, I mean just horrific
on the side that this guy's an animal. But you
look at the family and you look at Lake and Riley,
and the girl's going on for a little jog around
a lake, and you know she's got to be scared.
They want to Biden's your league got through and as
a criminal comes out and kills her in the way
that he did. I mean just horrible situation. And I'm
(02:07):
completely down with the judge's decision on the guilty verdicts.
You know, the guy waving the jury, that liberal DA
that decided not to pursue the death penalty is a
bit troublesome. But the DNA and all of this, I mean,
clearly you know this guy was guilty.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Yes, there was no question about it. And you know,
seeing her family and her friends giving statements, you know,
before the sentencing, I mean you could just tell how
much she was loved. And I mean she was a
nursing student. It's like she was sort of the pure
she was going off for a job, to do something
healthy for herself. I mean, all of these things point
(02:44):
in the direction of like angelic, you know. And then
there he was, and he hardly he really didn't change
his facial expression during the whole trial. And yeah, even
when these people were crying and all that, you know,
they were, and he just he just looked at them like,
you know, like he couldn't care less. And then even
(03:06):
when the judge was telling him his sentence life in
prison without role, he still didn't make any facial movements.
I mean it was like it was like nobody's home.
Speaker 5 (03:18):
Yeah, I don't understand. I mean, the guy's a psychopath.
He's just you know, deranged, he's evil, he's everything that
needs to be culled out of the herd and taken away.
And he's here illegally. He lived with his brothers. Who
knows what they're up to. Yeah, you know, I guess
he was married to. His wife helped turn him in
(03:39):
and you know, pinpoint him. Thank god, she had the
smart watch on in her phone, and that really kind
of laid out the timeline of what happened. They had
the video surveillance of the dumpster where he dumped his
clothes or took something out or put something in it,
and DNA of him and her on that whole thing.
The brother, you know, he's in here. The green card fraud. Uh,
(04:02):
the whole thing, The whole thing is just a mess here.
So yeah, listen, I went I went to play just
a quick clip. Here's our Momlake and Riley's mom. After
this whole thing, there.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Is no end to the pain, suffering and loss that
we have experienced or will continue to endure.
Speaker 5 (04:19):
It's horrible what it has done to this family. And
as you mentioned, Carol, that. Yeah, this guy just sat
there stoic, like he had nothing.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Going on, and yeah, like they weren't talking about him.
Speaker 5 (04:30):
Well, you know, one guy, one guy that could face
the death penalty, Brian Coburger, and the you know, slaying
and murder and horrific death of those four students in
the University of Idaho came out yesterday. They're going for
the death penalty on this one.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
Yes. Yes, the judge broke through his denial. I believe
you know, you would never think. I mean, he thought
that he was going to get away with this. I
think he to some degree, he still thinks that, but
I think he was awakened to some degree when the
judge put the kept the death penalty on the table.
(05:05):
You know, it was like, all of a sudden, it
seemed really real.
Speaker 5 (05:08):
Well, it needs to be the death penalty and it
needed to be in the death penalty for this guy
in Georgia too.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
Yes it did, ye, yes, it did.
Speaker 5 (05:15):
Just horrible and the guy has zero case. I do
believe Coburger his alibi. I love this, What do you think, Well, yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
His alibio that he was driving and looking at the stars.
Speaker 5 (05:26):
Yeah, he was out late night, driving alone, yeah, we
know that. That's why he's under arrest. So where do
you think do you think this case has the possibility
of going a different direction than we wanted to?
Speaker 3 (05:39):
Well, I don't know that he's going to get the
death penalty because you know, he's young, and there might
well be some jurors who thinks that, yes, of course
we killed four people. I mean that certainly, if that
doesn't get the death penalty, then what does But I
could see there being wonder who you know, where it
is unanimous, But I will see his attorney is really,
(06:01):
you know, doing a lot of work, I mean, really
going whole hog. I'm sure she was pretty surprised too
that they put the death penalty back on the table.
But you know, the thing with her, though, is that
she represented two of the parents, one parent each of
two of the victims. And whatever happens in this trial,
(06:23):
I mean, presumably he's going to be found guilty, but
whatever happens, there's this this appeal possibility where some lawyers
will say, well, you know, she didn't really do she
could have done better. It was in effective assistance of
counsel because she really had some feelings for the two
parents who she had helped in the past.
Speaker 5 (06:44):
Wow, isn't that a conflict of interest? Shouldn't she recused
herself from this to begin with?
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Yes, absolutely, But you know, there was a lot of
money to be made on this because because it's many,
many hours of work, so.
Speaker 5 (06:58):
You think, you know, an appeal process is imminent in
this especially obviously with the death penalty it's an automatic.
But just the fact that she'd represented some of the
victim's parents and helped them in another case. I mean,
that's crazy that she's doing this and they allowed that
to take place. All right, Well, Carol, I appreciate you.
I'm going to have you back. I do want to
talk to you maybe soon about this whole case with
(07:20):
Daniel Penny, the guy in the subway that is now
in going through trial. But another time, another conversation. Thank you, doctor,
Carol Leberman, and happy Thanksgiving by the.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Way to you too.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
It's beginning to sound a lot like the holidays. The
Roku channel your home for free and Premium TV is
giving you access to holiday music and genre base stations
from iHeart all for free. Find this soundtrack of the
season with channels like iHeart Christmas and North Pole Radio.
The Roku Channel is available on all Roku devices, Web, Amazon, fireTV,
(07:53):
Google TV, Samsung TVs, and the Roku mobile app on
iOS and Android devices. So stream what you love and
sern up that sheere with iHeartRadio on the Roku channel.
Happy streaming.
Speaker 6 (08:05):
I have a way to make your morning more efficient.
You can get caught up on the news in about
seven minutes. That is my promise to you as the
host of the Seven podcast from the Washington Post. And
in that time I will run down seven stories, everything
from the most important headlines to fascinating new information you
might miss otherwise. My name's Hannah juwele go follow the
(08:28):
Seven right now wherever you're listening, and we will get
you caught up.
Speaker 4 (08:35):
After the movie Free Willie became a hit, word got
out that the star of the film, a killer whale
named Keiko, was sick and still living in a tiny
pool in a Mexican amusement park. Fans were outraged, kids
demanded his release. I'm Danielle Racon from Serial Productions. In
the New York Times, comes the Goodwill, a story about
the wildly ambitious science experiment to return Keiko to the ocean.
(08:56):
Listen to New episodes on Thursdays. Want early access to
the whole show, subscribe The Times at ny times dot com,
slash podcasts to listen on Apple podcasts and Spotify.
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