Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
And we may not always agree, but we can agree
on one thing.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Fifty five at KRC is the talk station. All right,
back at it we go thirty three minutes after the
top of the hour.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
At Home with Gary Sullivan talked a lot today about.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Eric's changing insulation. We've been in.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
The in the softs and the facia boards and inside
and outside.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Special treat Right now we have Andrew Leggy.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
He is the CEO of Havelock Wool, and we're going
to talk a little bit about insulation and may not
be aware of wool insulation and Andrew, welcome that Home
with Gary Salvian.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
How you doing.
Speaker 4 (00:42):
I'm great, Gary, thanks so much for having me on
this morning.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
You're quite welcome. So tell me first about about Havelock Wool.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
Well, thanks for asking, Garry. We just got through our
eleventh year. There's obviously a lot to tell you over
the course of our directory, but we don't want to
put anybody to sleep. And what I can tell you
is that wool insulation has been actively used for thousands
of years. Wool as a fiber, of course, has evolved
(01:14):
to insulate the animals. It's protecting from all of the
elements hot, cold, wet dry, and so you know you'll
see wool insulation used fairly readily where you have where
you still have sort of large flocks of sheep, and
of course New Zealand is a place where that would happen.
(01:34):
New Zealand is responsible for about eleven percent of the
global annual clip of wool, and so it was really
this is where the story gets long, but I'm going
to make it short. I've spent a lot of time
in New Zealand and actually built a house there that
had wool insulation in it. And then as I was
kind of looking to do something a little bit different
(01:54):
and get out of the finance trade, I started talking
to some people about wool insulation and what that might
look like if we were able to procure wool in
New Zealand and set up a business in the US.
And so that's what we did in twenty thirteen. And
I can tell you that every step of the way
has been much harder than we planned, but we were
(02:16):
very happy to stay the course because we knew we
had such a great product. And so that's kind of
a short history of our journey. And then one thing
I would add that's sort of incredibly relevant is we
bought some new machinery, some new processing machinery at the
end of twenty twenty one, which takes up about fifteen
(02:38):
thousand square feet, so you don't run down to the
store and grab it and bring it back to the
shop and turn it on. But we weren't able to
finally turn it on in February March of this year.
And we're just we're making an incredible product. It's a
BAT product. Of course we're biased, but I think it's
probably the best insulation back you could ever hope to
(03:00):
stuff in your walls. And so that has really given
us something new and exciting to talk about, which we've
been doing for the last few months.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Okay, well, let's talk a little bit about that.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
When you say BATS, is this a rolled up product
like we would find in like a you know, we're
familiar with fiberglass insulation that comes in a roll that
has a.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Vapor barrier on it or no vapor barrier on it.
Does it look like that? Does it look different?
Speaker 4 (03:24):
You're right to say. The only thing is we don't
roll it up. Okay, will cut, So you know, your
standard stud bay is somewhere around ninety six inches, depending
upon having a top plate or not. And so basically
we cut that in half. So for each stud bay,
you're going to get two bats from us, and you're
just going to stack them one on top of the other.
(03:46):
It's quite easy for us to make one that's the
full ninety six inches, but they get heavy and a
little bit unwieldy, and so the installer community prefers two
to a day, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
What's the thickness on them, Andrew, We.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
Focus on three and a half and five and a
half inches, okay, because that's a standard two by four
and two by six cavity. Of course, an in an attic,
you may look for a different application that would be
something that would be a fair bit sicker ten inches
or twelve inches, And we tend to attack addicts with
a with a loose filler blow in, okay, versus a
(04:23):
twelve inch bat. The other thing that we see people
do quite a bit is stack bat So righting, there's
nothing in insulation that says that you know, the R
value is compromised if you stack a five and a
half inch bat on top of a five and a
half inch bat.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
So correct me if I'm wrong. This comes as a
loose fill and it also as a bat. Okay, so
and so any thickness is in play here. I think
the our value where I live is like recommended by
the Department of Energy as an R forty two, so
we can certainly get there without too much.
Speaker 4 (05:01):
We can. Our value is a really interesting conversation, and
you know, we could really put some listeners to sleep here,
so I'll be careful. But that's like right now, we're
running at three point nine per inch with our bats
and four point three with our loose fill. One of
the things you're trying to do with insulation is trap
air within the cavity because air is a terrible conductor.
(05:22):
So if you trap air effectively, then you're essentially going
to raise the our value a higher our value this
is a measure of thermal conductivity. Of course, our value
is resistance value. The higher the better. But there's sort
of a runaway race here with building codes, and you know,
wanting to say, hey, let's make this house more efficient,
(05:44):
let's raise the our value requirements in the envelopes, and
you know, I think we need to be a little
bit careful with just constantly raising that number, which is
to say that in California these days, there's talk of
our twenty three being a requirement nexterior walls that's doable,
but it's really expensive.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Is necessarily.
Speaker 4 (06:08):
I mean, I would argue that, of course you want
to have higher R values. You also, you know, I think,
want to look very closely at building practices because you
can do as much with your building practices as you
can with an elevated R value. So I'm not going
to say, hey, let's build. You know, I live in
Lake Tahoe and it's cold here right now, it's snow
(06:29):
it all day yesterday, and so I'm not going to
say we should build with two by fours and you know,
have an R fifteen in an exterior wall and call
it good. I mean, I think there's there's a point
to you know, being up in the R let's say,
twenty to twenty two space and then really focusing in
(06:52):
on creating you know, breathable air tightness, where now we're
really talking about efficiency. So I think it's as much
about insulation, and it's arguably maybe even more so when
when we start looking at building practices.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
Gotcha, gotcha, So a lot of people, I'm sure listening,
are not familiar with wool winslation, even though you know
it's hundreds of years old. We were familiar with maybe
foams and cellulose and fiberglass and rolled and loose filled.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
So how how does so they all?
Speaker 3 (07:31):
I guess everything in our homes has a ying and
a yang has the good part has the bad part.
You know, cellulose blows in real nice lgy. It compacts
and disintegrate, so you know, et cetera, et cetera. What
are the pluses of you know, fire retardant? I'm sure
if it's in the California Lake Tahoe area, it's got
(07:51):
to be fire resistant. I mentioned you as being a
guess and wool inslation. Somebody called and said, well, wool
installation isn't is it fire retardant nights?
Speaker 2 (08:01):
I'm sure it is. So how what's the pluses of
wool insalation?
Speaker 4 (08:07):
Yeah, so let's dress. Let's address the fire at first.
There's actually fourteen roughly fourteen percent nitrogen content in wool,
so it actually is self extinguishing. It won't support a
flame till about eleven hundred degrees fair night, so it's
not like like a cellulose which of course is you
know ultimately paper right, which will burn. Rock wool or
(08:32):
mineral wool probably leads the industry in terms of the
flammability conversation because it is and everything has a compromise, right, right.
Minerals great in fire, but it's terrible and sustainability because
it requires such a high heat to make the product,
(08:53):
and so that that mineral wool consistency is the salt
rock and slags of course, the byproduct of deeel smelting,
and so you've got to take that and get it
at a very high heat in order to make the
fiber before you can make it into insulation. But if
you then throw that in a house, you know it's
not gonna burn. I think the flame spread is zero,
(09:15):
which is which is an advantage for sure. The reality
is we shouldn't we shouldn't be protecting our homes from
forest fires with insulation.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Right.
Speaker 4 (09:23):
It's again, it's one of these things that are that's
a little bit crazy, because the other thing is most
houses are stick built, right, So you've got you've got
a wooden two by four, two by six in every cavity,
and what do you think the wood's going to do?
With a fire burn right, it's sitting right next to
the insulation. So you know all of these things. Of course,
we always want to put our best foot forward, but
(09:44):
I think, you know, sometimes sometimes we run, we run
a muck of common sense. But so that's the fire piece.
And then really, what wool does I mean? Because it's
evolved in nature's R and D department over thousands of years.
It literally is probably the most dynamic fiber on the planet,
and we, you know, try to get people that aren't
familiar with it to start thinking about I'm looking outside
(10:07):
at the mountains, and you know, there's a lot of
backcountry skiing and hiking that happens in this part of
the world, but certainly everywhere too. And you know, what's
the best thing to where to protect your body when
you go out and you exercise. It's not cotton, it's wool.
And even when it's hot out, you know, I go
hiking in the summer and I wear wool. My wife
(10:28):
thinks them crazy, and I'm always more comfortable than anyone else.
And so it's really that that moisture regulation, that temperature regulation,
and that continued performance irrespective of what's going on in
a dynamic changing, you know, ambient temperature. It does the
same thing when you put it in your walls. And
of course our house is depending on what climate zone
(10:50):
we live in, goes through all of these changes throughout
the year. And so one you've got a fiber that's performing,
and then two you've got one that's lasting because excuse me,
the inherent construct of a wool fiber and it's five follicles,
if you look at it under a microscope, is really dynamic.
And so you know, you're not looking at like a
like a piece of spaghetti, which is the best thing
(11:11):
you would hope to see, you know, for like a
cotton fiber. You know. So again back to the you know,
outdoor exercising. You know, I always try to be in
front of my friends when we're going uphill because most
of them are wearing like a capoline or a synthetic
that's what. It doesn't work over time because it's a
weak fiber, and so it starts to smell, and if
(11:32):
I'm behind them, I have to smell it. Yeah, I mean, like,
we just try to break it down and make it
easy for people to understand, because we don't want to
be all complex and you know, overarching you know, let's
think about you know, how important this stuff is. But
there is a real performance factor, and if you can
create these anecdotal scenarios, I think you can really touch people.
(11:54):
And in the last five years we've been focused entirely
on speaking to consumers, and so we spend all day,
every day on the phone talking to homeowners about you
know what the advantages and disadvantages are different types of insulation.
We have a sort of a mantra of trying to
help people make informed decisions. You know, the industry loves
(12:15):
to keep people in the dark, and so we always say, look,
whether you use our stuff or not, you know, at
least know what you're getting yourself into. Some of these
other products are not great.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Well, that's what we try to do.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
I've been doing this show for nationally for twenty five years,
but locally and nationally for thirty eight years. I've been
in the home improvement industry and I can remember having
guests on on multiple areas like fiberglass insulation somebody, you know,
the somebody goes, well, that's the same stuff that's in
furnace field, so why would I want to use that
as installations?
Speaker 2 (12:47):
I get what you're saying. I'm just trying to, you know,
draw the analogies.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
Hey, if you got about another ten minutes, I'd like
to take a break and come back and talk about
where to get it and is it a do it
yourself project?
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Is it? Then you want to have a prod If
you don't mind, can you do that for me?
Speaker 4 (13:04):
I love to thank you? All right?
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Very good?
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Uh Andrew Leggy he is the CEO of Havelock Wool.
We're talking about wool insallation. Are you familiar with it?
Speaker 4 (13:12):
Now?
Speaker 3 (13:12):
We're going to learn a little bit more as we continue.
You're at Home with Gary Sullivan.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Help for your home is just a click away at
Garysullivan online dot com. This is at Home with Gary
Sullivan Bryan Thomas weekday mornings at five on fifty five
KRC and online at fifty five KRC dot com.
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All right back ahead, it we go fifty one minutes
after the top of they are at home with Gary
Salvan Andrew Leggy. He's the CEO of have Lock Wool.
That's our discussion. That's our conversation. If you'd like to
check out the website, there's more information there. It's Havelockwool
dot com. And Andrew, I was just thinking during the break,
(16:13):
this is also a very organic product, a very renewable resource,
wool insulation, very little degrading.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
True, Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 4 (16:27):
I mean, you know, think about it very simplistically. Sheep
need haircuts.
Speaker 5 (16:31):
Yeah, and you know when you get when you get
thirty million of them out walking around in a very
pastoral place. And the reason why I make that distinction
is it's important that they're you know, New Zealand sheep
are walking around in you know, very grassy fields that
grass is fed by rainfall and they're basically eating grass,
(16:52):
getting a haircut, or cleaning the wool with predominantly water.
New Zealand has about.
Speaker 4 (16:57):
Eighty five percent of its fresh water that runs into
the oce so they just grab it before it goes in,
run it through the scour an the effluence goes back
onto the land. So you know a lot of circular
things happening. And then take that, we take that clean wool,
we transport, we transport it to ourselves in what is
probably some of the lowest, most efficient logistics costs in
(17:18):
the world, where we tackle a six hundred ton press
in New Zealand, so we're putting about nineteen and a
half thousand kgs into a twenty foot box which is
max dnsity, which is max density. So we use a
special trailer to pull it up from the port in Oakland,
and we process with very low power in Reno and
(17:40):
we're literally trying to do as little as we tend
to the wool before it arrives at your job site
and goes in your walls.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Very good. So where is halflock wool? Is it out
in a retail?
Speaker 3 (17:51):
You're looking at residential customers, commercial customers?
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Who is your customer?
Speaker 4 (17:58):
Yeah, good question and thank you for asking it. The
shortest answer is a homeowner. You know, typically when people
are going through the journey of building a home or
doing a renovation, most of the time it's the first
time you'll know that from your background, so they don't
really know what they're doing, and insulation is typically not
part of the conversation in either one of those processes.
(18:19):
And then what happens is they get to the part
where it's time for insulation and somebody says, wait a minute,
what are we putting in the house. I want that
in my house. And that is a shift in kind
of long run demand amongst consumers. And so we're much
different than a lot of companies in this regard because
if we're doing our job and you panic and you
(18:41):
go look for an alternative, healthy, high performance insulation, you're
going to find us. So then you're gonna end up
on our website or you're gonna end up on the phone
with us, and we're gonna, you know, hold your hand
and help you make a decision, and if it includes WOL,
then we can ship directly to the job site. Well,
to be honest, Garry, that's a lot work. You know,
(19:02):
we have to start over with everybody every day. And
that's what we've been doing over the last eleven years
is trying to help people understand that, you know, Havelock
Wool exists, Havelock Wool is now with our newer products, frankly,
much easier for the trades folks to install installers. Installers
(19:22):
like they have a playbook and they do not like
to deviate. And if you show up and tell them
that you have a different product, but they have to
install it differently, particularly if it takes more time, they
don't like it. So we're now starting to find our
way into distribution with installers. We've been talking to Low's
for a long time and we'd love to see that
finally take off. So hopefully you can always get it
(19:45):
from us, but hopefully you're going to be able to
get in a lot more places over the course of
twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Well, it's a process.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
I've been in this business a long time and it's
all about educating people. And you got a great story
to tell, and you know, I encourage people to go
to your website have.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Lock wool learn a little bit more about it.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
But you know, I think it's got some amazing differences
compared to what's out on the market. One quick question,
I think I know the answer, but I'll ask it anyway.
Since you've got to have lockpool that can be blown
in if somebody's just looking to top off the insulation
that they have in their attic, I mean you can
(20:24):
blow it on top of cellulose or fiberglass.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
I assume you sure can.
Speaker 4 (20:31):
You know, obviously, the cleanest way would be to take
the old stuff out, but that's kind of a pain
in the neck. So to answer your question, absolutely, you
can go right on top and pick up our value
right over the existing insallation.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
Well, I've enjoyed our conversation, Andrew, I wish you good luck.
I again, it's have lockwool dot com and thanks for
spending your weekend morning with us.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
I certainly appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (20:57):
Hey, thanks for having us on. Jerry, have a great day.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
You do same, thank you, Bye bye. All right, there's
uh Andrew Lecky. He is a CEO of Havelock War.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
I find it interesting get on that website, take a look,
and I like the story.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
I like the whole renewable, the organic, the R values.
I mean there's a lot of positives there. But it's
a big mountain le climb, and you're changing people's habits.
It's a big mountain to climb, and I totally get that. Well,
we got a lot more to discuss, and a lot
of it is about what you want to discuss, so
(21:34):
please feel free to join us. Our phone number is
eight hundred eight two three eight two five five and
we'll take your calls regarding your home projects. And You're
at Home with Gary Sullivan.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Home Improvement one oh one with Gary Sullivan every weekend.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Classes begin at.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
One eight hundred and eight two three tall You're at
Home with Gary Sullivan. Get Sean Hennity weekdays at three
on fifty five KRC and online at fifty five KRC
dot com
And we may not always agree, but we can agree
on one thing.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Fifty five at KRC is the talk station. All right,
back at it we go thirty three minutes after the
top of the hour.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
At Home with Gary Sullivan talked a lot today about.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Eric's changing insulation. We've been in.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
The in the softs and the facia boards and inside
and outside.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Special treat Right now we have Andrew Leggy.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
He is the CEO of Havelock Wool, and we're going
to talk a little bit about insulation and may not
be aware of wool insulation and Andrew, welcome that Home
with Gary Salvian.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
How you doing.
Speaker 4 (00:42):
I'm great, Gary, thanks so much for having me on
this morning.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
You're quite welcome. So tell me first about about Havelock Wool.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
Well, thanks for asking, Garry. We just got through our
eleventh year. There's obviously a lot to tell you over
the course of our directory, but we don't want to
put anybody to sleep. And what I can tell you
is that wool insulation has been actively used for thousands
of years. Wool as a fiber, of course, has evolved
(01:14):
to insulate the animals. It's protecting from all of the
elements hot, cold, wet dry, and so you know you'll
see wool insulation used fairly readily where you have where
you still have sort of large flocks of sheep, and
of course New Zealand is a place where that would happen.
(01:34):
New Zealand is responsible for about eleven percent of the
global annual clip of wool, and so it was really
this is where the story gets long, but I'm going
to make it short. I've spent a lot of time
in New Zealand and actually built a house there that
had wool insulation in it. And then as I was
kind of looking to do something a little bit different
(01:54):
and get out of the finance trade, I started talking
to some people about wool insulation and what that might
look like if we were able to procure wool in
New Zealand and set up a business in the US.
And so that's what we did in twenty thirteen. And
I can tell you that every step of the way
has been much harder than we planned, but we were
(02:16):
very happy to stay the course because we knew we
had such a great product. And so that's kind of
a short history of our journey. And then one thing
I would add that's sort of incredibly relevant is we
bought some new machinery, some new processing machinery at the
end of twenty twenty one, which takes up about fifteen
(02:38):
thousand square feet, so you don't run down to the
store and grab it and bring it back to the
shop and turn it on. But we weren't able to
finally turn it on in February March of this year.
And we're just we're making an incredible product. It's a
BAT product. Of course we're biased, but I think it's
probably the best insulation back you could ever hope to
(03:00):
stuff in your walls. And so that has really given
us something new and exciting to talk about, which we've
been doing for the last few months.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Okay, well, let's talk a little bit about that.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
When you say BATS, is this a rolled up product
like we would find in like a you know, we're
familiar with fiberglass insulation that comes in a roll that
has a.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Vapor barrier on it or no vapor barrier on it.
Does it look like that? Does it look different?
Speaker 4 (03:24):
You're right to say. The only thing is we don't
roll it up. Okay, will cut, So you know, your
standard stud bay is somewhere around ninety six inches, depending
upon having a top plate or not. And so basically
we cut that in half. So for each stud bay,
you're going to get two bats from us, and you're
just going to stack them one on top of the other.
(03:46):
It's quite easy for us to make one that's the
full ninety six inches, but they get heavy and a
little bit unwieldy, and so the installer community prefers two
to a day, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
What's the thickness on them, Andrew, We.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
Focus on three and a half and five and a
half inches, okay, because that's a standard two by four
and two by six cavity. Of course, an in an attic,
you may look for a different application that would be
something that would be a fair bit sicker ten inches
or twelve inches, And we tend to attack addicts with
a with a loose filler blow in, okay, versus a
(04:23):
twelve inch bat. The other thing that we see people
do quite a bit is stack bat So righting, there's
nothing in insulation that says that you know, the R
value is compromised if you stack a five and a
half inch bat on top of a five and a
half inch bat.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
So correct me if I'm wrong. This comes as a
loose fill and it also as a bat. Okay, so
and so any thickness is in play here. I think
the our value where I live is like recommended by
the Department of Energy as an R forty two, so
we can certainly get there without too much.
Speaker 4 (05:01):
We can. Our value is a really interesting conversation, and
you know, we could really put some listeners to sleep here,
so I'll be careful. But that's like right now, we're
running at three point nine per inch with our bats
and four point three with our loose fill. One of
the things you're trying to do with insulation is trap
air within the cavity because air is a terrible conductor.
(05:22):
So if you trap air effectively, then you're essentially going
to raise the our value a higher our value this
is a measure of thermal conductivity. Of course, our value
is resistance value. The higher the better. But there's sort
of a runaway race here with building codes, and you know,
wanting to say, hey, let's make this house more efficient,
(05:44):
let's raise the our value requirements in the envelopes, and
you know, I think we need to be a little
bit careful with just constantly raising that number, which is
to say that in California these days, there's talk of
our twenty three being a requirement nexterior walls that's doable,
but it's really expensive.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Is necessarily.
Speaker 4 (06:08):
I mean, I would argue that, of course you want
to have higher R values. You also, you know, I think,
want to look very closely at building practices because you
can do as much with your building practices as you
can with an elevated R value. So I'm not going
to say, hey, let's build. You know, I live in
Lake Tahoe and it's cold here right now, it's snow
(06:29):
it all day yesterday, and so I'm not going to
say we should build with two by fours and you know,
have an R fifteen in an exterior wall and call
it good. I mean, I think there's there's a point
to you know, being up in the R let's say,
twenty to twenty two space and then really focusing in
(06:52):
on creating you know, breathable air tightness, where now we're
really talking about efficiency. So I think it's as much
about insulation, and it's arguably maybe even more so when
when we start looking at building practices.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
Gotcha, gotcha, So a lot of people, I'm sure listening,
are not familiar with wool winslation, even though you know
it's hundreds of years old. We were familiar with maybe
foams and cellulose and fiberglass and rolled and loose filled.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
So how how does so they all?
Speaker 3 (07:31):
I guess everything in our homes has a ying and
a yang has the good part has the bad part.
You know, cellulose blows in real nice lgy. It compacts
and disintegrate, so you know, et cetera, et cetera. What
are the pluses of you know, fire retardant? I'm sure
if it's in the California Lake Tahoe area, it's got
(07:51):
to be fire resistant. I mentioned you as being a
guess and wool inslation. Somebody called and said, well, wool
installation isn't is it fire retardant nights?
Speaker 2 (08:01):
I'm sure it is. So how what's the pluses of
wool insalation?
Speaker 4 (08:07):
Yeah, so let's dress. Let's address the fire at first.
There's actually fourteen roughly fourteen percent nitrogen content in wool,
so it actually is self extinguishing. It won't support a
flame till about eleven hundred degrees fair night, so it's
not like like a cellulose which of course is you
know ultimately paper right, which will burn. Rock wool or
(08:32):
mineral wool probably leads the industry in terms of the
flammability conversation because it is and everything has a compromise, right, right.
Minerals great in fire, but it's terrible and sustainability because
it requires such a high heat to make the product,
(08:53):
and so that that mineral wool consistency is the salt
rock and slags of course, the byproduct of deeel smelting,
and so you've got to take that and get it
at a very high heat in order to make the
fiber before you can make it into insulation. But if
you then throw that in a house, you know it's
not gonna burn. I think the flame spread is zero,
(09:15):
which is which is an advantage for sure. The reality
is we shouldn't we shouldn't be protecting our homes from
forest fires with insulation.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Right.
Speaker 4 (09:23):
It's again, it's one of these things that are that's
a little bit crazy, because the other thing is most
houses are stick built, right, So you've got you've got
a wooden two by four, two by six in every cavity,
and what do you think the wood's going to do?
With a fire burn right, it's sitting right next to
the insulation. So you know all of these things. Of course,
we always want to put our best foot forward, but
(09:44):
I think, you know, sometimes sometimes we run, we run
a muck of common sense. But so that's the fire piece.
And then really, what wool does I mean? Because it's
evolved in nature's R and D department over thousands of years.
It literally is probably the most dynamic fiber on the planet,
and we, you know, try to get people that aren't
familiar with it to start thinking about I'm looking outside
(10:07):
at the mountains, and you know, there's a lot of
backcountry skiing and hiking that happens in this part of
the world, but certainly everywhere too. And you know, what's
the best thing to where to protect your body when
you go out and you exercise. It's not cotton, it's wool.
And even when it's hot out, you know, I go
hiking in the summer and I wear wool. My wife
(10:28):
thinks them crazy, and I'm always more comfortable than anyone else.
And so it's really that that moisture regulation, that temperature regulation,
and that continued performance irrespective of what's going on in
a dynamic changing, you know, ambient temperature. It does the
same thing when you put it in your walls. And
of course our house is depending on what climate zone
(10:50):
we live in, goes through all of these changes throughout
the year. And so one you've got a fiber that's performing,
and then two you've got one that's lasting because excuse me,
the inherent construct of a wool fiber and it's five follicles,
if you look at it under a microscope, is really dynamic.
And so you know, you're not looking at like a
like a piece of spaghetti, which is the best thing
(11:11):
you would hope to see, you know, for like a
cotton fiber. You know. So again back to the you know,
outdoor exercising. You know, I always try to be in
front of my friends when we're going uphill because most
of them are wearing like a capoline or a synthetic
that's what. It doesn't work over time because it's a
weak fiber, and so it starts to smell, and if
(11:32):
I'm behind them, I have to smell it. Yeah, I mean, like,
we just try to break it down and make it
easy for people to understand, because we don't want to
be all complex and you know, overarching you know, let's
think about you know, how important this stuff is. But
there is a real performance factor, and if you can
create these anecdotal scenarios, I think you can really touch people.
(11:54):
And in the last five years we've been focused entirely
on speaking to consumers, and so we spend all day,
every day on the phone talking to homeowners about you
know what the advantages and disadvantages are different types of insulation.
We have a sort of a mantra of trying to
help people make informed decisions. You know, the industry loves
(12:15):
to keep people in the dark, and so we always say, look,
whether you use our stuff or not, you know, at
least know what you're getting yourself into. Some of these
other products are not great.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Well, that's what we try to do.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
I've been doing this show for nationally for twenty five years,
but locally and nationally for thirty eight years. I've been
in the home improvement industry and I can remember having
guests on on multiple areas like fiberglass insulation somebody, you know,
the somebody goes, well, that's the same stuff that's in
furnace field, so why would I want to use that
as installations?
Speaker 2 (12:47):
I get what you're saying. I'm just trying to, you know,
draw the analogies.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
Hey, if you got about another ten minutes, I'd like
to take a break and come back and talk about
where to get it and is it a do it
yourself project?
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Is it? Then you want to have a prod If
you don't mind, can you do that for me?
Speaker 4 (13:04):
I love to thank you? All right?
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Very good?
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Uh Andrew Leggy he is the CEO of Havelock Wool.
We're talking about wool insallation. Are you familiar with it?
Speaker 4 (13:12):
Now?
Speaker 3 (13:12):
We're going to learn a little bit more as we continue.
You're at Home with Gary Sullivan.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Help for your home is just a click away at
Garysullivan online dot com. This is at Home with Gary
Sullivan Bryan Thomas weekday mornings at five on fifty five
KRC and online at fifty five KRC dot com.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
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Speaker 1 (15:44):
Some may not want a year when you have to say,
but we do fifty five KRC the talk station.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
All right back ahead, it we go fifty one minutes
after the top of they are at home with Gary
Salvan Andrew Leggy. He's the CEO of have Lock Wool.
That's our discussion. That's our conversation. If you'd like to
check out the website, there's more information there. It's Havelockwool
dot com. And Andrew, I was just thinking during the break,
(16:13):
this is also a very organic product, a very renewable resource,
wool insulation, very little degrading.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
True, Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 4 (16:27):
I mean, you know, think about it very simplistically. Sheep
need haircuts.
Speaker 5 (16:31):
Yeah, and you know when you get when you get
thirty million of them out walking around in a very
pastoral place. And the reason why I make that distinction
is it's important that they're you know, New Zealand sheep
are walking around in you know, very grassy fields that
grass is fed by rainfall and they're basically eating grass,
(16:52):
getting a haircut, or cleaning the wool with predominantly water.
New Zealand has about.
Speaker 4 (16:57):
Eighty five percent of its fresh water that runs into
the oce so they just grab it before it goes in,
run it through the scour an the effluence goes back
onto the land. So you know a lot of circular
things happening. And then take that, we take that clean wool,
we transport, we transport it to ourselves in what is
probably some of the lowest, most efficient logistics costs in
(17:18):
the world, where we tackle a six hundred ton press
in New Zealand, so we're putting about nineteen and a
half thousand kgs into a twenty foot box which is
max dnsity, which is max density. So we use a
special trailer to pull it up from the port in Oakland,
and we process with very low power in Reno and
(17:40):
we're literally trying to do as little as we tend
to the wool before it arrives at your job site
and goes in your walls.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Very good. So where is halflock wool? Is it out
in a retail?
Speaker 3 (17:51):
You're looking at residential customers, commercial customers?
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Who is your customer?
Speaker 4 (17:58):
Yeah, good question and thank you for asking it. The
shortest answer is a homeowner. You know, typically when people
are going through the journey of building a home or
doing a renovation, most of the time it's the first
time you'll know that from your background, so they don't
really know what they're doing, and insulation is typically not
part of the conversation in either one of those processes.
(18:19):
And then what happens is they get to the part
where it's time for insulation and somebody says, wait a minute,
what are we putting in the house. I want that
in my house. And that is a shift in kind
of long run demand amongst consumers. And so we're much
different than a lot of companies in this regard because
if we're doing our job and you panic and you
(18:41):
go look for an alternative, healthy, high performance insulation, you're
going to find us. So then you're gonna end up
on our website or you're gonna end up on the phone
with us, and we're gonna, you know, hold your hand
and help you make a decision, and if it includes WOL,
then we can ship directly to the job site. Well,
to be honest, Garry, that's a lot work. You know,
(19:02):
we have to start over with everybody every day. And
that's what we've been doing over the last eleven years
is trying to help people understand that, you know, Havelock
Wool exists, Havelock Wool is now with our newer products, frankly,
much easier for the trades folks to install installers. Installers
(19:22):
like they have a playbook and they do not like
to deviate. And if you show up and tell them
that you have a different product, but they have to
install it differently, particularly if it takes more time, they
don't like it. So we're now starting to find our
way into distribution with installers. We've been talking to Low's
for a long time and we'd love to see that
finally take off. So hopefully you can always get it
(19:45):
from us, but hopefully you're going to be able to
get in a lot more places over the course of
twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Well, it's a process.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
I've been in this business a long time and it's
all about educating people. And you got a great story
to tell, and you know, I encourage people to go
to your website have.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Lock wool learn a little bit more about it.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
But you know, I think it's got some amazing differences
compared to what's out on the market. One quick question,
I think I know the answer, but I'll ask it anyway.
Since you've got to have lockpool that can be blown
in if somebody's just looking to top off the insulation
that they have in their attic, I mean you can
(20:24):
blow it on top of cellulose or fiberglass.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
I assume you sure can.
Speaker 4 (20:31):
You know, obviously, the cleanest way would be to take
the old stuff out, but that's kind of a pain
in the neck. So to answer your question, absolutely, you
can go right on top and pick up our value
right over the existing insallation.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
Well, I've enjoyed our conversation, Andrew, I wish you good luck.
I again, it's have lockwool dot com and thanks for
spending your weekend morning with us.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
I certainly appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (20:57):
Hey, thanks for having us on. Jerry, have a great day.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
You do same, thank you, Bye bye. All right, there's
uh Andrew Lecky. He is a CEO of Havelock War.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
I find it interesting get on that website, take a look,
and I like the story.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
I like the whole renewable, the organic, the R values.
I mean there's a lot of positives there. But it's
a big mountain le climb, and you're changing people's habits.
It's a big mountain to climb, and I totally get that. Well,
we got a lot more to discuss, and a lot
of it is about what you want to discuss, so
(21:34):
please feel free to join us. Our phone number is
eight hundred eight two three eight two five five and
we'll take your calls regarding your home projects. And You're
at Home with Gary Sullivan.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Home Improvement one oh one with Gary Sullivan every weekend.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Classes begin at.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
One eight hundred and eight two three tall You're at
Home with Gary Sullivan. Get Sean Hennity weekdays at three
on fifty five KRC and online at fifty five KRC
dot com
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