Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
All right, back at it we go. By the way,
on your weekend. It's thirty three minutes after the top
of the iron. It's time to bring in an old friend,
Todd Miller. He is with Classic Metal Roofing. He is
the CEO there and also the board chair at the
Metal Roofing Association. That's exactly what we're going to talk about,
is not only metal roofing, but kind of where the
(00:44):
whole roofing industry is going. There's as you've as a
regular listener, probably have heard me talk about different insurance
companies and how that whole insurance rating thing's going. And
then you hear about hurricanes and wildfires and diesel Pete's
what's going on in the roofing this business?
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Mister Miller, Hey Gary, thanks somebody? Well, there is a
lot going on. There's no doubt about that.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Boy there sure is. They're sure is. Tell us first,
I guess we'll start with a very basic question is
kind of give us an overview of the metal roofing industry,
the looks, the advantages, et cetera. And then we'll get
into the insurances and all the other stuff.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Sure sounds good. So Metal now is out about a
fifteen percent share of the residential roofing market. If we
go back twenty years ago, that was more like two
or three percent, so it's grown dramatically. It's clearly the
number two player today behind the two thousand pounds giant
asphalt shingles. And but you know, one of the things
(01:48):
that has helped to drive that interest in metal roofing
is the wide variety of styles that are available. A
lot of times some floatink of metal roofing. You might
think of those long, straight sheets, and those are certainly
great options, but there are also residential options that are
both aluminum and steel and even copper that look more
(02:09):
like traditional roofing materials are high end materials like slate
or wood shakes or shingles or even clay tile. So
there's just a wide variety of products. And what we
have found is that as we have seen some changing
weather patterns that have brought hurricanes to places that maybe
didn't typically have a lot of hurricanes, or at least
(02:32):
more severe hurricanes, and of course the spread of wildfires
out west, what we're seeing more and more is consumers
are starting to say to you, was I'd like to
get a riffing product that is going to offer me
the most best protection against that.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
You know, probably twenty years ago when you and I
first met we started chatting, you would tell me, well,
you know that metal roofing, you look at it as
a forever roof, and you know, one of the things
you ask yourself is, you know, am I going to
be in this house ten years, twenty five years, thirty years,
forty years the rest of my life? Or is this
(03:08):
a two year roof and I'm out of here? Because
there's a difference in price, and I think back then
it was about two to two and a half times
and asphalt roof. Where's that stand now?
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Yeah, it's still basically the same rules apply. My general
question to a homeowner who asks me, you know, is
a metal roof right for me? And you know, I say, well,
everyone has their own criteria things that may drive them
to purchase something, But my general question is how long
do you intend to stay in the home? And if
they say anything that sounds like ten years or more,
(03:42):
you know, chances are metal is at least something they'd
want to consider. What we generally find nationally is the
average life expectancy of an asphalt shingle roof is seventeen years,
and that's a number that has come from the asphalt
roofing manufacturers associated itself. But you know, we also see
(04:03):
that in some areas where the weather is more extreme
due to heat or a lot of snow and ice
or high winds, we see asphalt shingles getting replaced much
sooner than that. And then you get into more temperate,
moderate areas, you know, you may see them lasting twenty
five thirty years, but I kind of, you know, figure
out if it's ten years or more, metal might make
(04:24):
sense to at least consider, because yes, that initial upfront
investment is going to be you know, two to three
times as much, depending upon the product you choose and
depending a little bit upon how complex your roof is.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
So so we got the market share up to fifteen percent,
and it sounds like it's about to jump even a
bigger amount over the next ten years. Because there are
states raising questions about asphalt roofing. There's insurance companies a
lot of them now is you know, will they pro
(05:02):
rate the claim on the roof? Can you talk just
kind of in general about the whole insurance angle of things,
because I'm kind of. I'm kind of confused, you know,
and I'm sure listeners are kind of confused too. They hear,
all the average life of a roof is seventeen years,
but the warrant in that roof says it's thirty years.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Sure, great questions, and there's a whole lot unpact there. Yeah,
you know, what we initially saw was the insurance industry
was taking a lot of hits on roof claims in
some of the hail states, and then we started seeing
it happening in some of the wind states. And of course,
you know, even though maybe out west in the fire
(05:45):
prone areas, it's not necessarily just a roof claim, but
that's still something they're looking at as well. And how
does the roof play into all of that? So homeowners
in all areas of the country. It started in Florida,
but now you know, even my own mother here in
Ohio got a letter from her insurance company saying a
couple of things. One, they have raised her deductible on
(06:08):
any roof claims from fifteen hundred to five thousand dollars deductible.
But then they also changed the policy so that any
payouts as far as roof claims are based upon the
pro rated value of that roof based upon its age,
not we're going to buy you a new roof and
we're going to pay for what it costs for a
(06:28):
new roof. So there's been a lot of changes. And
one of the things that really kind of raised some
eyebrows in the industry was a couple of weeks ago
the insurance state insurance commissioner in Florida even commented that, well,
maybe asphalt shingles are old roofing technology and we need
to be looking to the future with not using them
(06:50):
and instead using newer technologies. And I don't recall if
you had mentioned metal specifically in that quote, but that's
kind of what everyone is boy to do because metal
is the number two player, and in Florida, metal has
become quite popular, especially since the hurricanes. So yeah, there's
a there's a lot going on there now. As far
(07:11):
as the life expectancy of asphalt shingles, you brought up
a good question, and you know, one of the things
that you always got to be a little careful on
those is to understand the limitations and a warranty. So,
for example, a lot of riffing warranties will have limitations
if that attic is not vented specifically to code. And
(07:33):
in reality, there are very few homes out there that
have addicts that.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Are I totally agree. I think the last I heard
was only you know, seventy of ventilated addicts are done wrong, right,
that's not.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Good and no, no, and so that can avoid your warranty.
But you'll also see claims in the warranty against you know,
natural weathering and normal weathering and so forth as well.
So well, one of the things I always talk to
people about is a warranty is not a life expectancy claim.
(08:07):
So if I go out and buy a new vehicle
it has a three or four year warranty, Well, in
that case, I fully expect that vehicle to not be
a bucket of bolts at the end of three or
four years. Right. But the rioffing industry has kind of
flipped that on its head and does it the other way,
and they offer these very long warranties. But again, a
warranty is a contract saying if this happens and these
(08:29):
terms are met, and these exclusions do not void things,
we will do this. So that warranty is not necessarily
a life expectancy claim. It's really more a contract between
you and the manufacture. And one of the things when
you dig into a lot of riffing warranties too, you
find is they are protecting against manufacturer's defects. Well, the
(08:54):
fact that that product wore out because of extreme weather
doesn't necessarily mean it was produced strong to begin with, right,
And so now that puts a lot of onus on
the homeowner to try to prove those things, and it
gets very difficult.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Yeah, it does in a way. I think the roofing
industry and asphalt roofing and insurance they're kind of at fault,
and then the homeowners kind of a fault, and I
think it's just kind of time to come pay Peter.
And what I mean by that, I'm gonna, you know, no.
But what I'm saying is like, if you buy a
(09:31):
insurance on a car for you know, in your cars
ten years old in your record, they don't give you
the price of a new car, right, they replaced the
value of what that car is. That's kind of what
the roofing industry is doing now, correct it is.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
That's this trend that they're going toward and yeah, I'm
not going to argue you with you at all. It's
really been a lot of things to build this up.
And you know, it's kind of funny. I remember my
I have a family farm in my family, and I
remember it got hit by a hailstorm. This it was
probably thirty five years ago, and it was just expected
they pro rated the claims based upon the age of
(10:06):
those roofs. Then we kind of got away from that
and everyone said, no I want a new roof. You
got to put it back the way a lot. Yeah,
and now we're going back more toward the proation, which
to me is a very fair way to do things.
If I have gotten twelve good years out of a roof,
I shouldn't necessarily get You do not have to pay
anything towards roof.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Sure. And then when I said to home owners it fault.
I've seen this and it's just wrong in fact that
it make me angry. Where in our neighborhood, which is
about a twenty five year old neighborhood, there's people getting
roofs all the time.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
And finally I had somebody call me up and I
you know, he says, hey, somebody just knocked on my
door and sick, can I inspect your roof? And he said,
I got all kinds of hell damage and he took pictures,
and I'm going, yeah, because I saw a roof up
on the roof and I'm not saying everybody, but I
know it happens. He's up on a roof with a
(11:05):
ballpeen hammer. I don't know if that's tail damage, that's
balpen hammer damage.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Yeah, it's not funny, but you're absolutely right. There have
been a lot of opportunistic contractors out there, and you
know that's where it really comes up to consumers to
be wise consumers as well. And yeah, I absolutely I
guess my thought on it is, you know, if someone
comes and knocks my door and wants to do an inspection,
I'm going to say, well, let me get my insurance
(11:36):
company out here and have them look at it, or
let me have them come out here and meet you
and you two look at it together and see what
you think, because that'll help kind of keep that contractor honest.
And frankly, if the contractors there with the insurance guy,
it helps keep the insurance guy honest.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
So yeah, then I'm stand there thinking I'm paying for
my neighbor's roof exactly. You're asking me if that's okay, No,
that's not okay.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Yeah, I hear you, John.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
If you can give me about fifteen minutes, what I
want to do is take a break and then I
want to talk to you kind of about the fire things.
And you know, the comparison is a fault the metal
in terms of fire. You know, let's give some numbers,
some comparisons on wind ratings and different things like that.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Fair enough, Sure, happy to do that.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
All right, let's take a break. We'll continue Todd Miller.
He is the board chair at the Metal Roofing Association,
CEO of the Classic Metal Roofing Company up in Pickwell, Ohio,
and very knowledgeable as you can tell. We'll continue At
Home with Gary Sullivan.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Help for your home is just a click away at
Garysullivan online dot com. This is at Home with Gary Sullivan.
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(15:28):
All right, back at it. Todd Miller as my guest,
he is a metal roofing I'll call you an expert.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Todd. That's fair enough. I appreciate that. I'll try my best.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
If you're in it your whole life. You're just an expert.
That's just the way.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Now I'm getting pretty long in the two seats.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Yeah, me too. I hear you loud and clear. So
let's kind of you know, there a lot of discussions
going on. I don't know, and I got that question
I'll say for later about codes and will these things change?
Is that the intent? But let's stack up the durability.
So you got asphalt, you got metal, extreme heat, what
(16:10):
would do better? And why?
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Yeah? You know, I certainly the fact seem to show
that metal performs better in most weather extremes, extremes including
extreme heat. And you know, one of the things we
find with asphalt shingles is they're heavily dependent upon having
a great deal of oil content in them to keep
them supple and flexible. And you know, when they start
(16:34):
to lose that oil content, they get brittle, they're prone
to blowing up and cracking and curling and so forth.
And you know that oil content evaporates when you get
extreme heat and high UV. And so that's the reason
that asphalt shingles struggle not only in hot temperatures, but
also in upper altitudes where they're getting a lot of
ultraviolet rays. Metal roofing, on the other hand, tends to
(16:57):
be relatively unaffected by that sort of thing.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
We know what hail does to asphalt shingles, It can
destroy a roof. How does metal hold up?
Speaker 2 (17:07):
You know, it depends a lot on the extremity of
the storm, but we certainly see lots of metal riots
that come through storms. I usually find when that hail
starts to hit about golf ball size, you're probably going
to have some objectionable indentations on the metal roof. Now,
one of the things is that most metal riofs have
(17:27):
passed what they call Class four U all twenty two
to eighteen classification for impact resistance. And basically what that
means is that when a two inch steel ball is
dropped on that rioff from twenty foot, you know, simulating
a large hailstone, the riof doesn't fly apart, it doesn't
open up, you don't have any sort of penetration that's
(17:50):
going to allow water in. However, that two inch steel
ball drop from twenty foot is going to call an
cause an indentation on there. And you know, one of
the things that we see a little bit is in
hail prone areas. People will gravitate toward metal rifts that
maybe have a shake look or a tile look to them.
So that the metal is already formed with a great
(18:12):
deal of texture to it, right, that texture helps to
mask those indentations, and that texture also, you know, builds
a little bit of additional strength into the metal. We
all know, you know, I can take a plane card
and folded enough times that it becomes structurally sound, but
yet a flat plane card isn't. So putting that texture
in the metal tends to help. Also from a resiliency standpoint.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Wind ratings, I mean, how do those shake out? I
know wind ratings and roofing overall have improved.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Sure absolutely. You know, it's kind of a complex topic.
So a lot of the wind testing on asphalt shingles
is done in a wind tunnel, you know, simulating wind speeds.
On the other hand, and I can't really tell you
the history of why it ended up this way, the
metal roots are tested not so much within a wind
(19:07):
tunnel as they are with an uplift test, And so
they'll put a prepared roof covering of about a ten
foot by ten foot square. They will put it in
a chamber they'll have air excuse me, plastic bagging underneath
the roof that they're applying positive pressure to to try
to push those panels off. And then the whole thing
(19:28):
is in a vacuum changer chamber that has negative pressure
trying to suck the panels off the roof, if you will.
And they'll run that at pressures, you know, simulating up
over two hundred mile an hour wind speed. And so
for example, a lot of product metal products will teut
(19:49):
that they have Dade County, Florida approval, which right now
is you know, the most stringent approval process for wind
ratings on roofing materials, and that date count means that, yeah,
they have passed this wind uplift test that was simulating
wind speeds of I believe around two hundred and seventeen
miles an hour if I remember right. Wow, But again
(20:11):
the asshole testing has done differently. Now. One of the
things that I think is important to think about this too,
is all of these roofing products are tested when they
are new. There is no one doing aged products or
a sample testing, and I think that's important because you
take a lot of roofing materials that do have that
(20:33):
high oil content that are ten years old, and they
will not pass the test, yeah in ten years that
they passed when they were new. And metal, on the
other hand, it just tends to keep its resiliency throughout
its life.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
We've got about another minute. How about fire. I know
we've seen devastating fires. I mean a metal roof, metal
isn't going to burn like wood. But if the woodhouse burns, well,
you know what, metal, metal certainly rates higher than asphalt,
no doubt about it.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
We're seeing a lot of trend toward metal roof and
wall covering. So metal sidings out west in those fire
prone areas as well. And then another trick area on
those is attics are vented per code to let heat
and moisture out of the home. Well, those at events
can draw in burning embers. So there's a cool company
(21:26):
on the West coast called Vulcan that has developed soft
events that actually closed down in the event of a
fire and not let those burning embers in. So a
lot of neat technology and things are being driven by
these extreme weather patterns we're seeing.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Yeah, and some of the things we're even looking at
insulation is you know, making the whole house an envelope.
In other words, we don't even have soft events. We
have in the house whole house encapsulation. Todd, Yeah, thank
you so much. I guess we're all working. Eventually, some
codes in some areas will change, but I hope you
(22:05):
keep it us updated. And I really thank you for
appearing today, for giving up a half fire of your
time and educating always.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Thanks a pleasure to be here. Thank you, Grek.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
And of course I can always get more information. It's
Metal Roofing dot com. And of course ask Toddmiller dot com.
You still got that address, I'm sure, and he can
answer questions there, all right, your calls eight hundred eight
two three eight two five five, that's next. You're at
home with Garry Sullivan.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
If you don't have a list of things to do
around the house, Gary will find something for you at
one eight hundred eighty two three talk. You're at home
with Gary Sullivan.
All right, back at it we go. By the way,
on your weekend. It's thirty three minutes after the top
of the iron. It's time to bring in an old friend,
Todd Miller. He is with Classic Metal Roofing. He is
the CEO there and also the board chair at the
Metal Roofing Association. That's exactly what we're going to talk about,
is not only metal roofing, but kind of where the
(00:44):
whole roofing industry is going. There's as you've as a
regular listener, probably have heard me talk about different insurance
companies and how that whole insurance rating thing's going. And
then you hear about hurricanes and wildfires and diesel Pete's
what's going on in the roofing this business?
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Mister Miller, Hey Gary, thanks somebody? Well, there is a
lot going on. There's no doubt about that.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Boy there sure is. They're sure is. Tell us first,
I guess we'll start with a very basic question is
kind of give us an overview of the metal roofing industry,
the looks, the advantages, et cetera. And then we'll get
into the insurances and all the other stuff.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Sure sounds good. So Metal now is out about a
fifteen percent share of the residential roofing market. If we
go back twenty years ago, that was more like two
or three percent, so it's grown dramatically. It's clearly the
number two player today behind the two thousand pounds giant
asphalt shingles. And but you know, one of the things
(01:48):
that has helped to drive that interest in metal roofing
is the wide variety of styles that are available. A
lot of times some floatink of metal roofing. You might
think of those long, straight sheets, and those are certainly
great options, but there are also residential options that are
both aluminum and steel and even copper that look more
(02:09):
like traditional roofing materials are high end materials like slate
or wood shakes or shingles or even clay tile. So
there's just a wide variety of products. And what we
have found is that as we have seen some changing
weather patterns that have brought hurricanes to places that maybe
didn't typically have a lot of hurricanes, or at least
(02:32):
more severe hurricanes, and of course the spread of wildfires
out west, what we're seeing more and more is consumers
are starting to say to you, was I'd like to
get a riffing product that is going to offer me
the most best protection against that.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
You know, probably twenty years ago when you and I
first met we started chatting, you would tell me, well,
you know that metal roofing, you look at it as
a forever roof, and you know, one of the things
you ask yourself is, you know, am I going to
be in this house ten years, twenty five years, thirty years,
forty years the rest of my life? Or is this
(03:08):
a two year roof and I'm out of here? Because
there's a difference in price, and I think back then
it was about two to two and a half times
and asphalt roof. Where's that stand now?
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Yeah, it's still basically the same rules apply. My general
question to a homeowner who asks me, you know, is
a metal roof right for me? And you know, I say, well,
everyone has their own criteria things that may drive them
to purchase something, But my general question is how long
do you intend to stay in the home? And if
they say anything that sounds like ten years or more,
(03:42):
you know, chances are metal is at least something they'd
want to consider. What we generally find nationally is the
average life expectancy of an asphalt shingle roof is seventeen years,
and that's a number that has come from the asphalt
roofing manufacturers associated itself. But you know, we also see
(04:03):
that in some areas where the weather is more extreme
due to heat or a lot of snow and ice
or high winds, we see asphalt shingles getting replaced much
sooner than that. And then you get into more temperate,
moderate areas, you know, you may see them lasting twenty
five thirty years, but I kind of, you know, figure
out if it's ten years or more, metal might make
(04:24):
sense to at least consider, because yes, that initial upfront
investment is going to be you know, two to three
times as much, depending upon the product you choose and
depending a little bit upon how complex your roof is.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
So so we got the market share up to fifteen percent,
and it sounds like it's about to jump even a
bigger amount over the next ten years. Because there are
states raising questions about asphalt roofing. There's insurance companies a
lot of them now is you know, will they pro
(05:02):
rate the claim on the roof? Can you talk just
kind of in general about the whole insurance angle of things,
because I'm kind of. I'm kind of confused, you know,
and I'm sure listeners are kind of confused too. They hear,
all the average life of a roof is seventeen years,
but the warrant in that roof says it's thirty years.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Sure, great questions, and there's a whole lot unpact there. Yeah,
you know, what we initially saw was the insurance industry
was taking a lot of hits on roof claims in
some of the hail states, and then we started seeing
it happening in some of the wind states. And of course,
you know, even though maybe out west in the fire
(05:45):
prone areas, it's not necessarily just a roof claim, but
that's still something they're looking at as well. And how
does the roof play into all of that? So homeowners
in all areas of the country. It started in Florida,
but now you know, even my own mother here in
Ohio got a letter from her insurance company saying a
couple of things. One, they have raised her deductible on
(06:08):
any roof claims from fifteen hundred to five thousand dollars deductible.
But then they also changed the policy so that any
payouts as far as roof claims are based upon the
pro rated value of that roof based upon its age,
not we're going to buy you a new roof and
we're going to pay for what it costs for a
(06:28):
new roof. So there's been a lot of changes. And
one of the things that really kind of raised some
eyebrows in the industry was a couple of weeks ago
the insurance state insurance commissioner in Florida even commented that, well,
maybe asphalt shingles are old roofing technology and we need
to be looking to the future with not using them
(06:50):
and instead using newer technologies. And I don't recall if
you had mentioned metal specifically in that quote, but that's
kind of what everyone is boy to do because metal
is the number two player, and in Florida, metal has
become quite popular, especially since the hurricanes. So yeah, there's
a there's a lot going on there now. As far
(07:11):
as the life expectancy of asphalt shingles, you brought up
a good question, and you know, one of the things
that you always got to be a little careful on
those is to understand the limitations and a warranty. So,
for example, a lot of riffing warranties will have limitations
if that attic is not vented specifically to code. And
(07:33):
in reality, there are very few homes out there that
have addicts that.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Are I totally agree. I think the last I heard
was only you know, seventy of ventilated addicts are done wrong, right,
that's not.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Good and no, no, and so that can avoid your warranty.
But you'll also see claims in the warranty against you know,
natural weathering and normal weathering and so forth as well.
So well, one of the things I always talk to
people about is a warranty is not a life expectancy claim.
(08:07):
So if I go out and buy a new vehicle
it has a three or four year warranty, Well, in
that case, I fully expect that vehicle to not be
a bucket of bolts at the end of three or
four years. Right. But the rioffing industry has kind of
flipped that on its head and does it the other way,
and they offer these very long warranties. But again, a
warranty is a contract saying if this happens and these
(08:29):
terms are met, and these exclusions do not void things,
we will do this. So that warranty is not necessarily
a life expectancy claim. It's really more a contract between
you and the manufacture. And one of the things when
you dig into a lot of riffing warranties too, you
find is they are protecting against manufacturer's defects. Well, the
(08:54):
fact that that product wore out because of extreme weather
doesn't necessarily mean it was produced strong to begin with, right,
And so now that puts a lot of onus on
the homeowner to try to prove those things, and it
gets very difficult.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Yeah, it does in a way. I think the roofing
industry and asphalt roofing and insurance they're kind of at fault,
and then the homeowners kind of a fault, and I
think it's just kind of time to come pay Peter.
And what I mean by that, I'm gonna, you know, no.
But what I'm saying is like, if you buy a
(09:31):
insurance on a car for you know, in your cars
ten years old in your record, they don't give you
the price of a new car, right, they replaced the
value of what that car is. That's kind of what
the roofing industry is doing now, correct it is.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
That's this trend that they're going toward and yeah, I'm
not going to argue you with you at all. It's
really been a lot of things to build this up.
And you know, it's kind of funny. I remember my
I have a family farm in my family, and I
remember it got hit by a hailstorm. This it was
probably thirty five years ago, and it was just expected
they pro rated the claims based upon the age of
(10:06):
those roofs. Then we kind of got away from that
and everyone said, no I want a new roof. You
got to put it back the way a lot. Yeah,
and now we're going back more toward the proation, which
to me is a very fair way to do things.
If I have gotten twelve good years out of a roof,
I shouldn't necessarily get You do not have to pay
anything towards roof.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Sure. And then when I said to home owners it fault.
I've seen this and it's just wrong in fact that
it make me angry. Where in our neighborhood, which is
about a twenty five year old neighborhood, there's people getting
roofs all the time.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
And finally I had somebody call me up and I
you know, he says, hey, somebody just knocked on my
door and sick, can I inspect your roof? And he said,
I got all kinds of hell damage and he took pictures,
and I'm going, yeah, because I saw a roof up
on the roof and I'm not saying everybody, but I
know it happens. He's up on a roof with a
(11:05):
ballpeen hammer. I don't know if that's tail damage, that's
balpen hammer damage.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Yeah, it's not funny, but you're absolutely right. There have
been a lot of opportunistic contractors out there, and you
know that's where it really comes up to consumers to
be wise consumers as well. And yeah, I absolutely I
guess my thought on it is, you know, if someone
comes and knocks my door and wants to do an inspection,
I'm going to say, well, let me get my insurance
(11:36):
company out here and have them look at it, or
let me have them come out here and meet you
and you two look at it together and see what
you think, because that'll help kind of keep that contractor honest.
And frankly, if the contractors there with the insurance guy,
it helps keep the insurance guy honest.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
So yeah, then I'm stand there thinking I'm paying for
my neighbor's roof exactly. You're asking me if that's okay, No,
that's not okay.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Yeah, I hear you, John.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
If you can give me about fifteen minutes, what I
want to do is take a break and then I
want to talk to you kind of about the fire things.
And you know, the comparison is a fault the metal
in terms of fire. You know, let's give some numbers,
some comparisons on wind ratings and different things like that.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Fair enough, Sure, happy to do that.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
All right, let's take a break. We'll continue Todd Miller.
He is the board chair at the Metal Roofing Association,
CEO of the Classic Metal Roofing Company up in Pickwell, Ohio,
and very knowledgeable as you can tell. We'll continue At
Home with Gary Sullivan.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Help for your home is just a click away at
Garysullivan online dot com. This is at Home with Gary Sullivan.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
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(15:28):
All right, back at it. Todd Miller as my guest,
he is a metal roofing I'll call you an expert.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Todd. That's fair enough. I appreciate that. I'll try my best.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
If you're in it your whole life. You're just an expert.
That's just the way.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Now I'm getting pretty long in the two seats.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Yeah, me too. I hear you loud and clear. So
let's kind of you know, there a lot of discussions
going on. I don't know, and I got that question
I'll say for later about codes and will these things change?
Is that the intent? But let's stack up the durability.
So you got asphalt, you got metal, extreme heat, what
(16:10):
would do better? And why?
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Yeah? You know, I certainly the fact seem to show
that metal performs better in most weather extremes, extremes including
extreme heat. And you know, one of the things we
find with asphalt shingles is they're heavily dependent upon having
a great deal of oil content in them to keep
them supple and flexible. And you know, when they start
(16:34):
to lose that oil content, they get brittle, they're prone
to blowing up and cracking and curling and so forth.
And you know that oil content evaporates when you get
extreme heat and high UV. And so that's the reason
that asphalt shingles struggle not only in hot temperatures, but
also in upper altitudes where they're getting a lot of
ultraviolet rays. Metal roofing, on the other hand, tends to
(16:57):
be relatively unaffected by that sort of thing.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
We know what hail does to asphalt shingles, It can
destroy a roof. How does metal hold up?
Speaker 2 (17:07):
You know, it depends a lot on the extremity of
the storm, but we certainly see lots of metal riots
that come through storms. I usually find when that hail
starts to hit about golf ball size, you're probably going
to have some objectionable indentations on the metal roof. Now,
one of the things is that most metal riofs have
(17:27):
passed what they call Class four U all twenty two
to eighteen classification for impact resistance. And basically what that
means is that when a two inch steel ball is
dropped on that rioff from twenty foot, you know, simulating
a large hailstone, the riof doesn't fly apart, it doesn't
open up, you don't have any sort of penetration that's
(17:50):
going to allow water in. However, that two inch steel
ball drop from twenty foot is going to call an
cause an indentation on there. And you know, one of
the things that we see a little bit is in
hail prone areas. People will gravitate toward metal rifts that
maybe have a shake look or a tile look to them.
So that the metal is already formed with a great
(18:12):
deal of texture to it, right, that texture helps to
mask those indentations, and that texture also, you know, builds
a little bit of additional strength into the metal. We
all know, you know, I can take a plane card
and folded enough times that it becomes structurally sound, but
yet a flat plane card isn't. So putting that texture
in the metal tends to help. Also from a resiliency standpoint.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Wind ratings, I mean, how do those shake out? I
know wind ratings and roofing overall have improved.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Sure absolutely. You know, it's kind of a complex topic.
So a lot of the wind testing on asphalt shingles
is done in a wind tunnel, you know, simulating wind speeds.
On the other hand, and I can't really tell you
the history of why it ended up this way, the
metal roots are tested not so much within a wind
(19:07):
tunnel as they are with an uplift test, And so
they'll put a prepared roof covering of about a ten
foot by ten foot square. They will put it in
a chamber they'll have air excuse me, plastic bagging underneath
the roof that they're applying positive pressure to to try
to push those panels off. And then the whole thing
(19:28):
is in a vacuum changer chamber that has negative pressure
trying to suck the panels off the roof, if you will.
And they'll run that at pressures, you know, simulating up
over two hundred mile an hour wind speed. And so
for example, a lot of product metal products will teut
(19:49):
that they have Dade County, Florida approval, which right now
is you know, the most stringent approval process for wind
ratings on roofing materials, and that date count means that, yeah,
they have passed this wind uplift test that was simulating
wind speeds of I believe around two hundred and seventeen
miles an hour if I remember right. Wow, But again
(20:11):
the asshole testing has done differently. Now. One of the
things that I think is important to think about this too,
is all of these roofing products are tested when they
are new. There is no one doing aged products or
a sample testing, and I think that's important because you
take a lot of roofing materials that do have that
(20:33):
high oil content that are ten years old, and they
will not pass the test, yeah in ten years that
they passed when they were new. And metal, on the
other hand, it just tends to keep its resiliency throughout
its life.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
We've got about another minute. How about fire. I know
we've seen devastating fires. I mean a metal roof, metal
isn't going to burn like wood. But if the woodhouse burns, well,
you know what, metal, metal certainly rates higher than asphalt,
no doubt about it.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
We're seeing a lot of trend toward metal roof and
wall covering. So metal sidings out west in those fire
prone areas as well. And then another trick area on
those is attics are vented per code to let heat
and moisture out of the home. Well, those at events
can draw in burning embers. So there's a cool company
(21:26):
on the West coast called Vulcan that has developed soft
events that actually closed down in the event of a
fire and not let those burning embers in. So a
lot of neat technology and things are being driven by
these extreme weather patterns we're seeing.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Yeah, and some of the things we're even looking at
insulation is you know, making the whole house an envelope.
In other words, we don't even have soft events. We
have in the house whole house encapsulation. Todd, Yeah, thank
you so much. I guess we're all working. Eventually, some
codes in some areas will change, but I hope you
(22:05):
keep it us updated. And I really thank you for
appearing today, for giving up a half fire of your
time and educating always.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Thanks a pleasure to be here. Thank you, Grek.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
And of course I can always get more information. It's
Metal Roofing dot com. And of course ask Toddmiller dot com.
You still got that address, I'm sure, and he can
answer questions there, all right, your calls eight hundred eight
two three eight two five five, that's next. You're at
home with Garry Sullivan.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
If you don't have a list of things to do
around the house, Gary will find something for you at
one eight hundred eighty two three talk. You're at home
with Gary Sullivan.
At Home with Gary Sullivan News
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