Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Drinking Andy. Welcome again at homewith Gary Selvin. How you doing,
Hey, thanks for having uscary topof the day to you. Yes,
sir man, I'll tell you whatwhat a wonderful day it is too?
Um boy, where to start youguys? Busy? H Yeah, it's
been really busy, thankfully, youknow laster. I think everybody got hit
(00:20):
a little hard, but there sure, thankfully things being to be coming back.
Yeah, yeah, for sure.Hey, one thing I got I
want to ask. I don't evenknow if you get involved in it.
We got plenty of things to talkabout that you get involved with. All
we hear is about electric cars andelectric um, you know, lawnmowers and
hedge tream and everything's going you know, battery operate battery cars. Everything do
(00:45):
you put in charging stations and homes? Um? Yeah, all day,
every day kind of electric cars especially. Yeah, I kind of thought that
I don't know anything about that,so can maybe a lot of people don't
know anything about it. Can youkind of talk if you get an electric
car, what the homeowner needs toadd to their house. Well, depending
(01:07):
on the brent, you know,to make a model of car. M
you're going to be looking at anywherebetween thirty and sixty hams of available power
to charge ad So, um,well, we run into a lot of
times is we'll go to people's housesand don't have one hundred am service or
one hundred and fifty AM service andthey want to put a sixty m car
charger on it and her services undersize for that. So they're shocked when
(01:32):
we find out that, hey,I gotta you know, bult my service
up to two or three hundred amsuI'll supply this vehicle. Is that the
majority of the people run into thator is that a small percentage um.
The older your home and the smallerthe service you have in your house,
the higher the you know, ifyou had an electric car, you're gonna
(01:53):
have to have you know, you'llhave service update issues. Right. Wow,
So that's a big business for awhile. Huh. Yeah, it
looks like it's going to be forquite a wine. I'll tell you,
when Tesla first came out, theywere requiring one hundred hands and those people
would follow, you know, wouldfall out of their chairs when you told
them, hey, you got tobump your service from two to four hundred
(02:13):
hands just to cover your you know, the car you just drop six figures
on Wow. Wow, that's abig deal. So that might be something
you want to check into, right, I mean, guess we're all going
to eventually check into that. ButI just just curious. How big of
an apparatus is it inside a garage? UM it's it's normally the largest ones
(02:38):
are like the size of a shoebox. If somebody is considering buying UM
an electric car, they may wantto call an electriction first and they could
come out and do what you calljust a simple load calculation on your house
to see if your existing service handsthe capacity for that, you know,
for that electric vehicle charger and EmiltonCounty if you do elaberal working of all
(03:02):
of hermit dates can tell you toactually do that load calculation, and if
your service is within eighty percent ofwhat the list of number one your main
breaker is, then they'll make youupdates your service. You'll be compelled to
do that. Wow, Like twohundred MS was one hundred and sixty calculated
(03:22):
one hundred and sixty AMS calculator.Yeah, I think that's good advice.
So well good I kind of sprungthat question on you any but I appreciate
that answer, because I think alot of people starting to scratch their heads
and wonder about that, and Iwas one of them. So thank you
(03:42):
for letting me know that call anelectric gets into that you do a lot
of it. Now, let's talkabout some of the basic things that we
talked about older homes, and youcan talk about newer homes. Wiring systems
over the generations have changed a lot. I guess one of the things with
it kind of the weather we've had. You get um, you know,
(04:05):
you get a lot of water,a lot of downpars, and we have,
especially in the new homes, groundfault circuit interrupters kind of explain that.
And I had a couple of peoplethat had a series of dead outlets
and I talked about the ground faultcircuit interruptor maybe address that for me if
(04:26):
you would. Sure. Yeah,when a circuits made, hot electrons come
off the you know, the breaker, go through the wiring and then come
back to the ground on the neutralin the panel. And what a ground
fault circuit does is it measures thatcurrent flow that comes back on the neutral
(04:46):
side of your circuit. So ifyou are standing on wet gramps and you're
on a non ground fault protect anoutlet. If that circuit drawn, he
has a ground fault and knows electronsare gonn float through you into the ground
and you're gonna get shocked or electrocuted. If that circus on a ground fault
outlet ground fall protect a breaker,then the electronics and that you know in
(05:13):
the ground fault outlet actually measure thoseelectronics coming back on neutral notice that they
diverted the ground and will open theopen a circuit. I mean it usually
takes about ten thousands of a secondfor that to happen. So usually if
you're on a ground fall circuit andyou're in the midst of getting shocked,
you don't even feel because that actuatesso quickly. So when a ground fault
(05:36):
circuit interrupts that, it shuts downother outlets that are along that circuit.
And a lot of times people don'tknow what's going on, right, I
mean, they they got an electricalproblem, but they don't know what's causing
it or even how to trace it. How do they do that outside of
(05:57):
calling the electriction. Well, ifyour house is built, like in the
nineteen eighties when the groundfall technology firstcame out, most inspectors in the area
would allow you to pretty much daisychain most of your um the circus off
out one ground faull. So alot of times a guy's outlet on the
outside of his house would go outand then he'd find out that it's in
(06:19):
this half bathroom on the first floorswhere the actual GFI is, or you
know, you'd be up in yourmaster bathroom and the ground fall, for
I would be all the way down, you know, on the wall,
usually behind the refrigerator freezer of course, right of course you do on the
basement, so you know you can'tfind it to calling electro you know,
you're calling electrocan and they, youknow, have the same um you know,
(06:43):
experience a pulling their hair out withyou trying to find where your groundfall
is. Yeah, that's very common. And you know if the code cycles
change every three years of kind ofdialed down where ground falls are supposed to
be located. And so you haveyou know, ground fall protection your kitchen
that's dedicated to your kitchen, theexterior bathrooms, Baseman's cross face and stuff
(07:04):
like that. So yeah, anda lot well that's kind of I guess
what I told the guys, keeplooking, that's right, Just keep looking,
you'll find it. Yeah. Yeah, I found mine one time underneath
a shovel which was on a notpegboard but these big hooks that go on
(07:27):
there, and I didn't know itwas there, but it was. I
found it eventually. It took mea while, but yeah, it rarely
is at the fault of the groundfault. Everybody always when they find it,
they always think, well, thatoutlets bad, But no, it
just did its job right. Yeah, a lot of times. You know,
if you do want to troubleshoot thatyou want to unplug everything off that
circuit and then reset the ground fall. And if the groundfall doesn't reset,
(07:51):
then odds are either have a wiringissue or the ground falls just bad.
But if it resets empty on plugstuff, just plug stuff in one at
a time, told rips, andthen it's like, hey, that's where
your issue is. And Garry,we see that all the time with Christmas
lights. So people always sall handmy outs or outlets aren't working, so
it ends up being lights. Yeah, yeah for sure. Hey, summertime
(08:15):
pool hot tubs and all that,how about some electrical safety around those?
Well, if you have an aboveground pool especially, and you put it
together yourself, make sure you're familiarwith what the bonding requirements are in the
area that you're putting your pool upin, as well as what you know.
(08:35):
The electrical requirements are. Different countiesare on different code cycles right now,
but pretty much all of them aren'trequiring like bonding of in ground and
above ground pools. You don't seeissues with bonding as much within ground pools
because normally professional contractors are installing thoseand are familiar with how to do that.
(08:56):
But you see a lot of realbootlegs stuff with above ground pools.
In other words, the homeowners maybe doing it themselves or the pull installer.
Yeah, the yeah, the pullinstaller, you know, if they
don't have permits and stuff like thatand nobody's coming to look at it.
There you see a lot more umnon code compliant work to put it,
(09:16):
you know, kindly on aboveground stuffthen you do in ground stuff. But
you know the problem of that toois your your electrocution hazards are so you
know, are just grossly elevated whenyou throw water in human beings together on
the ground that it's critical that ifyou do have a pool that you know
(09:37):
was never inspected by you know,a competent inspect or anything like I have
to probably has somebody come on andtake a look at the electrical goan to
it got you u um, Yeah. We had a we had a customer
in Washington Courthouse where they were actuallygetting blasted, not just like tingled,
(09:58):
but blasted when they were coming outof their pool onto their concrete deck.
And through a whole lot of researchand testing, we found it to actually
had an open conductor feeding a wellpump out in the yard. So when
the well pump came on, itwas energizing an area around the pool.
So when they were getting out,they were getting shocked because it wasn't bonded
(10:20):
correctly. So we've fixed the bondand did some other stuff and how you
know they're not getting you know,they're not getting electrocutle out kind of make
you want to not go to thepool, just saying oh, gully whippools
if you know that's that's the electricfor That is like aircraft um design when
(10:41):
there's a lot of redundancies built in, but if you're missing one piece of
the puzz looking have canastrophic effects.Just like with an aircraft. If you
know you're missing a bonding wire onwater pump motor feeding a pool, that
could cause somebody to get shocked inadvertentlyif something else fails. And that says
them so articles sick eighty. That'sthe code and the National Electrical Code that
(11:05):
governs pool and fountain hot tub installations. It's very detailed, very specific,
and if you ever have pool workdone, make sure you have an inspector
come behind the contractor and inspective workthat they do. The best advice I
could possibly gives, do not attemptto do pool electrical installations less you are
(11:26):
trained and knowledgeable on what you're doing. You know, Andy, I kind
of second that, and for somereason it falls into the electrical field more
than any other professional trade. Inmy opinion, there there's limitations. We
all have limitations on our talent,whether it's you know, doing electrical work,
(11:50):
plumbing work, carpentry work. That'swhere there's all these different crafts.
But you know, a lot oftimes as homeowners, people feel like they
can, you know, pretty muchjust do anything by watching a YouTube video
and I'm sure you clean up alot of messes. I think a lot
of trades people do because you justdon't have the knowledge to tackle those projects.
(12:13):
Yeah, and uh, you know, Gary, the YouTube is is
great for a lot of things.But the problem when you're watching YouTube videos
to do electrical plumbing, gas typeof work, the codes that govern where
that person who is filming the videois maybe you know, markedly different than
the codes owner for us in HamiltonCounty, Claremont County, Butler County,
(12:35):
etc. So the code is wheneverthe authority having jurisdiction says that it is.
So if you're watching a YouTube videofrom a guy in Roanoke, Virginia,
you go and the hook, youknow, your equipment up like that
in inspector comes out and it's notapropos to how we do things in Hamilton
County. Right then you've got thatwhole you know, you got that whole
mess to try to clean up too, so high loose guess, lets let's
(13:00):
change in the light bulb or maybea switch. I'd stay off YouTube for
stuff like swimming pools and hot salvesand that kind of staus for sure.
Let's think of break when we comeback. I do want to talk a
little bit about, you know,the full electrical service, the panel boxes.
I want to talk about aluminum wiring, even the nob and tube wiring.
Andy Culin is my guests, presidentowner of Culin Electric, and you're
(13:24):
at home with Gary Sulvan right hereon fifty five KRC, the talk station.
I am just so sick and tiethese pantyways liberals and their excuses.
Days of speaking softly are gone.It's done. It's time to use your
outside voice. Shout it from theroot time I was yelling at my radio,
and you're welcome to do so.Right here, boys, MIAs pleasure.
(13:46):
I want to get all first beforeused to yea yet five KRC.
I'm sorry to scream, but I'mso fis the talk station back. He
there we go. Andy Cullen fromCulin Electric, my guest, and Dale
(14:07):
Donovan. He'll be rolling in atone o'clock our so Andy, We've had
a lot of conversations over the yearsabout wiring in homes, and there's been
a lot of things written about itwhere you know, I don't know nob
and tube wiring. That's probably oneof the more antiquated wiring systems we can
still find in homes in a greaterCincinnati area. I'm sure you convert a
(14:31):
lot of those. How safe isthat? I understand it's probably a really
good idea to go ahead and confirmthe regular wiring system where you're gonna have
trouble even selling your house. Isthat still true? Yeah, And there's
a lot of different aspects of gunsof the whole nob in tube conversation.
(14:52):
But the driving force behind really updatingall this now has been the insurance companies.
A you know how it is whenyou know their lost threshold gets to
a certain point, they decide theywere going to compel you to make sure
you know this is done or that'sdone. When knob and two obviously when
it came out, the only electricaldevices available in the world were light volves,
(15:16):
and then the clothes iron came shortlyafter that. So it's a two
conductor system. There's no ground.We get calls all the time from realtors
and from home buyers and sellers thatwe'll ask us coming to a knob into
the house and say, hey,is you know is this wiring safe?
You know? Can you can youtell my insurance company this is kosher et
(15:39):
cetera, et cetera. In ouranswer to them is there's nobody who's a
legitimate electrician or an electrical professional thatwould ever tell the human being that an
ungrounded wiring circuit is safe. Andthe assurers, he would never say the
knob and two is safe because youknow the reason why insurance companies don't when
it cover it is because you know, electrocutions that have occurred, the whole
(16:02):
home fires, the deaths, theyou know, just the chaos that's been
calls over the years. There thereis really no situation now where nov in
tube is an appropriate method of electricaldelivery in a home. That's fair enough.
That's fair enough. So in alot of cases, you probably can't
(16:22):
even get insurance on a house rightif it's got nobin two. Yeah,
I don't want to mention the companies. There's only two that that I know
of, just from you know,the hours and hours a day that we
spend the almost you know realtors andhomeowners oh locally, or that we'll even
touch a home that hans nomin tube. Man and we have um I know,
(16:42):
you know, Lily, um,Lily does nothing but one's rewire crews
one one right after the others.People you know buying sellar homes. Uh,
you know, updating out of thenootube and normally ninety nine percent of
the times because the insurance company says, hey, you know, we're not
going to assure how unless you updateit. Wow, that can't be cheap.
(17:03):
I mean that's a family. It'suh, you know, now with
the way you know, materials haveyou know, gone up four and five
percent. We used to be ableto, you know, rewire a two
thousand squaref at home for about sixteenthousand dollars and now you know it's in
the twenty two to thirty thousand ourrange just because of the way you know,
a material price and everything is hasgone up the last couple of years.
(17:27):
So that's kind of a big shockwhen you're going to buy houses.
Absolutely, I got to spend thirtygrand I date my wiring. But it's
well worth it, yeah, youknow, but you know it is part
of the whole affordable housing crisis.And then you find out house it's affordable
and we got to rewire because wecan't ensure it, you know, I
(17:47):
see, you know, it's it'sa but you want to be safe.
That's the bottom line. How aboutaluminum wiring? Where are we standing there?
Um? That's in even more deadlymenaced than nombin tube is no nomin
tube is kind of a nert unlessyou cover it up or one heavy appliances
(18:08):
or head people that don't know whatthey're all work on it. Aluminum wiring
is it's breaking down over the years. Now it's it's failing right, you
know, right and left, andnormally when an ale circuits fails, there's
normally fire involved with it. Soyou'll you'll see you know, more and
more house fires calls with aluminum wireUM you can mitigate it because those those
(18:33):
fires normally cause determination points like whereyou know can extra white and outlet a
switch, or where you know somesomebody has put copper and aluminum wires together
that causes um dialectric reaction which youknow, puts gaps in those connections,
which heats up and calls you know, causes fires. So you can cop
(18:56):
a loom. The CPSC um theonly mitigation method that they've approved over the
years as cople loom. They haveanother connector called illumicons that may may be
approved by the CPFC for a longterm mitigation method, but right now,
rewiring or copple looms the only two. Really industry accept the methods of mitigation.
(19:21):
Yeah, what's scary is when peopletry to fix that themselves. And
you know that that is a recipefor a home for a homeowner's claim.
If you have aluminum wire in yourhouse, do not touch it. If
you have an electrocition that comes inyour house and tells you they can use
purple wire nuts to mitigate that stuff, kindly invite them out of your house
immediately because they have no clue whatthey're looking at. How about I know
(19:45):
it's acceptable, but these outlets andswitches where you just push the wire in
copper wire? Do you have anytrouble with those? But that is a
ull. You know UL has listedthose from that to do that. If
I had a guy in the field, don't anty be fired five minutes anth
we discovered it. That's um.It's you all accepts it. But there
(20:08):
isn't any substitute for you know,the hooking t west on a switch or
outlet for I totally. We're actuallysee a lot of fires over the years
from outlets will push you know,back push wires in it. Yea,
Which brings me to my other question, and that is, um, how
(20:30):
can a homeowner not get in troublebefore they get in trouble. In other
words, we've talked about a coupleof things, aluminum wiring, jiffy push
in wires into switches and outlets.Is there a way too, I know,
before there's fire, there's usually heat. Is there any thing a homeowner
(20:52):
can do periodically to just kind oftest to make sure we don't have a
hidden danger? I mean, objectivelyspeaking, I don't just keep batteries in
your smoke detectors, and you know, because there really isn't anything out A
lay person can and can really selfdiagnosed as far as you know, wiring
(21:14):
issues, especially when everything's hidden behindplates and walls and everything. Right,
I didn't know we you know,periodically we had a good idea to you
know, pull the outlet or feelthe outlet is see if it's hot or
is that just not going to giveus any answers? Um? Well,
yeah, if you have an outletor a switch, when you turn it
all makes a noise or pops.Now, if if you plug something into
(21:38):
an outlet that's turned on like alamp, you are going to see a
small heart because of those electrons arejumping from the outlet you know, through
the blade. Sure, but ifyou're if you're moving an outlet or switch
and you hear, you know,something pop, or if it feels warm,
you definitely um want to call somebodybecause we'll talk an elector we're gonna
(22:00):
run out of time. Indy,I really appreciate you join us as Colin
Electric. Thanks so much, Andy, talked to you soon. Alrighty,
all right, Joe Strecker, thankyou very much. It's fun working together
again. Good Lord. Willing backtomorrow for more At Home with Gary Sullivan
Drinking Andy. Welcome again at homewith Gary Selvin. How you doing,
Hey, thanks for having uscary topof the day to you. Yes,
sir man, I'll tell you whatwhat a wonderful day it is too?
Um boy, where to start youguys? Busy? H Yeah, it's
been really busy, thankfully, youknow laster. I think everybody got hit
(00:20):
a little hard, but there sure, thankfully things being to be coming back.
Yeah, yeah, for sure.Hey, one thing I got I
want to ask. I don't evenknow if you get involved in it.
We got plenty of things to talkabout that you get involved with. All
we hear is about electric cars andelectric um, you know, lawnmowers and
hedge tream and everything's going you know, battery operate battery cars. Everything do
(00:45):
you put in charging stations and homes? Um? Yeah, all day,
every day kind of electric cars especially. Yeah, I kind of thought that
I don't know anything about that,so can maybe a lot of people don't
know anything about it. Can youkind of talk if you get an electric
car, what the homeowner needs toadd to their house. Well, depending
(01:07):
on the brent, you know,to make a model of car. M
you're going to be looking at anywherebetween thirty and sixty hams of available power
to charge ad So, um,well, we run into a lot of
times is we'll go to people's housesand don't have one hundred am service or
one hundred and fifty AM service andthey want to put a sixty m car
charger on it and her services undersize for that. So they're shocked when
(01:32):
we find out that, hey,I gotta you know, bult my service
up to two or three hundred amsuI'll supply this vehicle. Is that the
majority of the people run into thator is that a small percentage um.
The older your home and the smallerthe service you have in your house,
the higher the you know, ifyou had an electric car, you're gonna
(01:53):
have to have you know, you'llhave service update issues. Right. Wow,
So that's a big business for awhile. Huh. Yeah, it
looks like it's going to be forquite a wine. I'll tell you,
when Tesla first came out, theywere requiring one hundred hands and those people
would follow, you know, wouldfall out of their chairs when you told
them, hey, you got tobump your service from two to four hundred
(02:13):
hands just to cover your you know, the car you just drop six figures
on Wow. Wow, that's abig deal. So that might be something
you want to check into, right, I mean, guess we're all going
to eventually check into that. ButI just just curious. How big of
an apparatus is it inside a garage? UM it's it's normally the largest ones
(02:38):
are like the size of a shoebox. If somebody is considering buying UM
an electric car, they may wantto call an electriction first and they could
come out and do what you calljust a simple load calculation on your house
to see if your existing service handsthe capacity for that, you know,
for that electric vehicle charger and EmiltonCounty if you do elaberal working of all
(03:02):
of hermit dates can tell you toactually do that load calculation, and if
your service is within eighty percent ofwhat the list of number one your main
breaker is, then they'll make youupdates your service. You'll be compelled to
do that. Wow, Like twohundred MS was one hundred and sixty calculated
(03:22):
one hundred and sixty AMS calculator.Yeah, I think that's good advice.
So well good I kind of sprungthat question on you any but I appreciate
that answer, because I think alot of people starting to scratch their heads
and wonder about that, and Iwas one of them. So thank you
(03:42):
for letting me know that call anelectric gets into that you do a lot
of it. Now, let's talkabout some of the basic things that we
talked about older homes, and youcan talk about newer homes. Wiring systems
over the generations have changed a lot. I guess one of the things with
it kind of the weather we've had. You get um, you know,
(04:05):
you get a lot of water,a lot of downpars, and we have,
especially in the new homes, groundfault circuit interrupters kind of explain that.
And I had a couple of peoplethat had a series of dead outlets
and I talked about the ground faultcircuit interruptor maybe address that for me if
(04:26):
you would. Sure. Yeah,when a circuits made, hot electrons come
off the you know, the breaker, go through the wiring and then come
back to the ground on the neutralin the panel. And what a ground
fault circuit does is it measures thatcurrent flow that comes back on the neutral
(04:46):
side of your circuit. So ifyou are standing on wet gramps and you're
on a non ground fault protect anoutlet. If that circuit drawn, he
has a ground fault and knows electronsare gonn float through you into the ground
and you're gonna get shocked or electrocuted. If that circus on a ground fault
outlet ground fall protect a breaker,then the electronics and that you know in
(05:13):
the ground fault outlet actually measure thoseelectronics coming back on neutral notice that they
diverted the ground and will open theopen a circuit. I mean it usually
takes about ten thousands of a secondfor that to happen. So usually if
you're on a ground fall circuit andyou're in the midst of getting shocked,
you don't even feel because that actuatesso quickly. So when a ground fault
(05:36):
circuit interrupts that, it shuts downother outlets that are along that circuit.
And a lot of times people don'tknow what's going on, right, I
mean, they they got an electricalproblem, but they don't know what's causing
it or even how to trace it. How do they do that outside of
(05:57):
calling the electriction. Well, ifyour house is built, like in the
nineteen eighties when the groundfall technology firstcame out, most inspectors in the area
would allow you to pretty much daisychain most of your um the circus off
out one ground faull. So alot of times a guy's outlet on the
outside of his house would go outand then he'd find out that it's in
(06:19):
this half bathroom on the first floorswhere the actual GFI is, or you
know, you'd be up in yourmaster bathroom and the ground fall, for
I would be all the way down, you know, on the wall,
usually behind the refrigerator freezer of course, right of course you do on the
basement, so you know you can'tfind it to calling electro you know,
you're calling electrocan and they, youknow, have the same um you know,
(06:43):
experience a pulling their hair out withyou trying to find where your groundfall
is. Yeah, that's very common. And you know if the code cycles
change every three years of kind ofdialed down where ground falls are supposed to
be located. And so you haveyou know, ground fall protection your kitchen
that's dedicated to your kitchen, theexterior bathrooms, Baseman's cross face and stuff
(07:04):
like that. So yeah, anda lot well that's kind of I guess
what I told the guys, keeplooking, that's right, Just keep looking,
you'll find it. Yeah. Yeah, I found mine one time underneath
a shovel which was on a notpegboard but these big hooks that go on
(07:27):
there, and I didn't know itwas there, but it was. I
found it eventually. It took mea while, but yeah, it rarely
is at the fault of the groundfault. Everybody always when they find it,
they always think, well, thatoutlets bad, But no, it
just did its job right. Yeah, a lot of times. You know,
if you do want to troubleshoot thatyou want to unplug everything off that
circuit and then reset the ground fall. And if the groundfall doesn't reset,
(07:51):
then odds are either have a wiringissue or the ground falls just bad.
But if it resets empty on plugstuff, just plug stuff in one at
a time, told rips, andthen it's like, hey, that's where
your issue is. And Garry,we see that all the time with Christmas
lights. So people always sall handmy outs or outlets aren't working, so
it ends up being lights. Yeah, yeah for sure. Hey, summertime
(08:15):
pool hot tubs and all that,how about some electrical safety around those?
Well, if you have an aboveground pool especially, and you put it
together yourself, make sure you're familiarwith what the bonding requirements are in the
area that you're putting your pool upin, as well as what you know.
(08:35):
The electrical requirements are. Different countiesare on different code cycles right now,
but pretty much all of them aren'trequiring like bonding of in ground and
above ground pools. You don't seeissues with bonding as much within ground pools
because normally professional contractors are installing thoseand are familiar with how to do that.
(08:56):
But you see a lot of realbootlegs stuff with above ground pools.
In other words, the homeowners maybe doing it themselves or the pull installer.
Yeah, the yeah, the pullinstaller, you know, if they
don't have permits and stuff like thatand nobody's coming to look at it.
There you see a lot more umnon code compliant work to put it,
(09:16):
you know, kindly on aboveground stuffthen you do in ground stuff. But
you know the problem of that toois your your electrocution hazards are so you
know, are just grossly elevated whenyou throw water in human beings together on
the ground that it's critical that ifyou do have a pool that you know
(09:37):
was never inspected by you know,a competent inspect or anything like I have
to probably has somebody come on andtake a look at the electrical goan to
it got you u um, Yeah. We had a we had a customer
in Washington Courthouse where they were actuallygetting blasted, not just like tingled,
(09:58):
but blasted when they were coming outof their pool onto their concrete deck.
And through a whole lot of researchand testing, we found it to actually
had an open conductor feeding a wellpump out in the yard. So when
the well pump came on, itwas energizing an area around the pool.
So when they were getting out,they were getting shocked because it wasn't bonded
(10:20):
correctly. So we've fixed the bondand did some other stuff and how you
know they're not getting you know,they're not getting electrocutle out kind of make
you want to not go to thepool, just saying oh, gully whippools
if you know that's that's the electricfor That is like aircraft um design when
(10:41):
there's a lot of redundancies built in, but if you're missing one piece of
the puzz looking have canastrophic effects.Just like with an aircraft. If you
know you're missing a bonding wire onwater pump motor feeding a pool, that
could cause somebody to get shocked inadvertentlyif something else fails. And that says
them so articles sick eighty. That'sthe code and the National Electrical Code that
(11:05):
governs pool and fountain hot tub installations. It's very detailed, very specific,
and if you ever have pool workdone, make sure you have an inspector
come behind the contractor and inspective workthat they do. The best advice I
could possibly gives, do not attemptto do pool electrical installations less you are
(11:26):
trained and knowledgeable on what you're doing. You know, Andy, I kind
of second that, and for somereason it falls into the electrical field more
than any other professional trade. Inmy opinion, there there's limitations. We
all have limitations on our talent,whether it's you know, doing electrical work,
(11:50):
plumbing work, carpentry work. That'swhere there's all these different crafts.
But you know, a lot oftimes as homeowners, people feel like they
can, you know, pretty muchjust do anything by watching a YouTube video
and I'm sure you clean up alot of messes. I think a lot
of trades people do because you justdon't have the knowledge to tackle those projects.
(12:13):
Yeah, and uh, you know, Gary, the YouTube is is
great for a lot of things.But the problem when you're watching YouTube videos
to do electrical plumbing, gas typeof work, the codes that govern where
that person who is filming the videois maybe you know, markedly different than
the codes owner for us in HamiltonCounty, Claremont County, Butler County,
(12:35):
etc. So the code is wheneverthe authority having jurisdiction says that it is.
So if you're watching a YouTube videofrom a guy in Roanoke, Virginia,
you go and the hook, youknow, your equipment up like that
in inspector comes out and it's notapropos to how we do things in Hamilton
County. Right then you've got thatwhole you know, you got that whole
mess to try to clean up too, so high loose guess, lets let's
(13:00):
change in the light bulb or maybea switch. I'd stay off YouTube for
stuff like swimming pools and hot salvesand that kind of staus for sure.
Let's think of break when we comeback. I do want to talk a
little bit about, you know,the full electrical service, the panel boxes.
I want to talk about aluminum wiring, even the nob and tube wiring.
Andy Culin is my guests, presidentowner of Culin Electric, and you're
(13:24):
at home with Gary Sulvan right hereon fifty five KRC, the talk station.
I am just so sick and tiethese pantyways liberals and their excuses.
Days of speaking softly are gone.It's done. It's time to use your
outside voice. Shout it from theroot time I was yelling at my radio,
and you're welcome to do so.Right here, boys, MIAs pleasure.
(13:46):
I want to get all first beforeused to yea yet five KRC.
I'm sorry to scream, but I'mso fis the talk station back. He
there we go. Andy Cullen fromCulin Electric, my guest, and Dale
(14:07):
Donovan. He'll be rolling in atone o'clock our so Andy, We've had
a lot of conversations over the yearsabout wiring in homes, and there's been
a lot of things written about itwhere you know, I don't know nob
and tube wiring. That's probably oneof the more antiquated wiring systems we can
still find in homes in a greaterCincinnati area. I'm sure you convert a
(14:31):
lot of those. How safe isthat? I understand it's probably a really
good idea to go ahead and confirmthe regular wiring system where you're gonna have
trouble even selling your house. Isthat still true? Yeah, And there's
a lot of different aspects of gunsof the whole nob in tube conversation.
(14:52):
But the driving force behind really updatingall this now has been the insurance companies.
A you know how it is whenyou know their lost threshold gets to
a certain point, they decide theywere going to compel you to make sure
you know this is done or that'sdone. When knob and two obviously when
it came out, the only electricaldevices available in the world were light volves,
(15:16):
and then the clothes iron came shortlyafter that. So it's a two
conductor system. There's no ground.We get calls all the time from realtors
and from home buyers and sellers thatwe'll ask us coming to a knob into
the house and say, hey,is you know is this wiring safe?
You know? Can you can youtell my insurance company this is kosher et
(15:39):
cetera, et cetera. In ouranswer to them is there's nobody who's a
legitimate electrician or an electrical professional thatwould ever tell the human being that an
ungrounded wiring circuit is safe. Andthe assurers, he would never say the
knob and two is safe because youknow the reason why insurance companies don't when
it cover it is because you know, electrocutions that have occurred, the whole
(16:02):
home fires, the deaths, theyou know, just the chaos that's been
calls over the years. There thereis really no situation now where nov in
tube is an appropriate method of electricaldelivery in a home. That's fair enough.
That's fair enough. So in alot of cases, you probably can't
(16:22):
even get insurance on a house rightif it's got nobin two. Yeah,
I don't want to mention the companies. There's only two that that I know
of, just from you know,the hours and hours a day that we
spend the almost you know realtors andhomeowners oh locally, or that we'll even
touch a home that hans nomin tube. Man and we have um I know,
(16:42):
you know, Lily, um,Lily does nothing but one's rewire crews
one one right after the others.People you know buying sellar homes. Uh,
you know, updating out of thenootube and normally ninety nine percent of
the times because the insurance company says, hey, you know, we're not
going to assure how unless you updateit. Wow, that can't be cheap.
(17:03):
I mean that's a family. It'suh, you know, now with
the way you know, materials haveyou know, gone up four and five
percent. We used to be ableto, you know, rewire a two
thousand squaref at home for about sixteenthousand dollars and now you know it's in
the twenty two to thirty thousand ourrange just because of the way you know,
a material price and everything is hasgone up the last couple of years.
(17:27):
So that's kind of a big shockwhen you're going to buy houses.
Absolutely, I got to spend thirtygrand I date my wiring. But it's
well worth it, yeah, youknow, but you know it is part
of the whole affordable housing crisis.And then you find out house it's affordable
and we got to rewire because wecan't ensure it, you know, I
(17:47):
see, you know, it's it'sa but you want to be safe.
That's the bottom line. How aboutaluminum wiring? Where are we standing there?
Um? That's in even more deadlymenaced than nombin tube is no nomin
tube is kind of a nert unlessyou cover it up or one heavy appliances
(18:08):
or head people that don't know whatthey're all work on it. Aluminum wiring
is it's breaking down over the years. Now it's it's failing right, you
know, right and left, andnormally when an ale circuits fails, there's
normally fire involved with it. Soyou'll you'll see you know, more and
more house fires calls with aluminum wireUM you can mitigate it because those those
(18:33):
fires normally cause determination points like whereyou know can extra white and outlet a
switch, or where you know somesomebody has put copper and aluminum wires together
that causes um dialectric reaction which youknow, puts gaps in those connections,
which heats up and calls you know, causes fires. So you can cop
(18:56):
a loom. The CPSC um theonly mitigation method that they've approved over the
years as cople loom. They haveanother connector called illumicons that may may be
approved by the CPFC for a longterm mitigation method, but right now,
rewiring or copple looms the only two. Really industry accept the methods of mitigation.
(19:21):
Yeah, what's scary is when peopletry to fix that themselves. And
you know that that is a recipefor a home for a homeowner's claim.
If you have aluminum wire in yourhouse, do not touch it. If
you have an electrocition that comes inyour house and tells you they can use
purple wire nuts to mitigate that stuff, kindly invite them out of your house
immediately because they have no clue whatthey're looking at. How about I know
(19:45):
it's acceptable, but these outlets andswitches where you just push the wire in
copper wire? Do you have anytrouble with those? But that is a
ull. You know UL has listedthose from that to do that. If
I had a guy in the field, don't anty be fired five minutes anth
we discovered it. That's um.It's you all accepts it. But there
(20:08):
isn't any substitute for you know,the hooking t west on a switch or
outlet for I totally. We're actuallysee a lot of fires over the years
from outlets will push you know,back push wires in it. Yea,
Which brings me to my other question, and that is, um, how
(20:30):
can a homeowner not get in troublebefore they get in trouble. In other
words, we've talked about a coupleof things, aluminum wiring, jiffy push
in wires into switches and outlets.Is there a way too, I know,
before there's fire, there's usually heat. Is there any thing a homeowner
(20:52):
can do periodically to just kind oftest to make sure we don't have a
hidden danger? I mean, objectivelyspeaking, I don't just keep batteries in
your smoke detectors, and you know, because there really isn't anything out A
lay person can and can really selfdiagnosed as far as you know, wiring
(21:14):
issues, especially when everything's hidden behindplates and walls and everything. Right,
I didn't know we you know,periodically we had a good idea to you
know, pull the outlet or feelthe outlet is see if it's hot or
is that just not going to giveus any answers? Um? Well,
yeah, if you have an outletor a switch, when you turn it
all makes a noise or pops.Now, if if you plug something into
(21:38):
an outlet that's turned on like alamp, you are going to see a
small heart because of those electrons arejumping from the outlet you know, through
the blade. Sure, but ifyou're if you're moving an outlet or switch
and you hear, you know,something pop, or if it feels warm,
you definitely um want to call somebodybecause we'll talk an elector we're gonna
(22:00):
run out of time. Indy,I really appreciate you join us as Colin
Electric. Thanks so much, Andy, talked to you soon. Alrighty,
all right, Joe Strecker, thankyou very much. It's fun working together
again. Good Lord. Willing backtomorrow for more At Home with Gary Sullivan
At Home with Gary Sullivan News
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