Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Sunstein Sessions on iHeartRadio, conversations about issues that matter.
Here's your host, three time Grasie Award winner, Shelley Sunstein.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
I am so excited to tell you about a new
movie that's opening Friday. And this is what I call
another movie about yet another hidden figure of history. At
least this was a hidden figure to me. The movie
is Audrey's Children. It's opening in theaters this coming Friday,
(00:31):
and it's starring a woman who is a household face
to Game of Thrones fans. She played Marjorie Tyrrell. She
also played Anne Bolin in The Tutors, and that would
be Natalie Dormer and also joining me, Amy canaan Mann,
who is the director. Okay, so you ask who is Audrey?
(00:55):
Who are Audrey's Children? So let me just set this up.
Doctor Audrey Evans was the first female chief of oncology
at the world renowned Children's Hospital of Philadelphia. But she
was also the co founder with the Philadelphia Eagles of
the very first Ronald McDonald House. And she was the
(01:17):
brilliant mind behind the neuroblastoma staging system. So she basically
changed well help save children's lives who were dealing with
this cancer. So first of all, welcome Natalie and Amy.
And like I said, I had no clue. I did
(01:37):
not know about doctor Audrey Evans. Natalie, did you No.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
I didn't.
Speaker 4 (01:43):
And it was one of the reasons I wanted to
do the film because I couldn't believe that I didn't
know of her before and that she wasn't a household name.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
And Amy, how did you come to tell this story?
Speaker 5 (01:58):
Well, the strip was sent to me and it was
you know, I was very lucky I was sent to me,
and I really responded to the scene where Audrey is
speaking to a childs on the roof about how to
sort of conceive of the child's own passing. And I thought,
my god, what a difficult situation to be in, you know,
(02:19):
for an adult. No adult wants to have to have
that conversation with a child. And yet here's this woman
that did this daily and for decades, as well as
fighting tooth and nail for their lives. So I thought,
this is definitely a story I want to try to
help tell.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Let me ask you this, this is a story that
is so difficult to watch because in the beginning of
the movie, I mean you're basically watching these little children
and babies who you know are not going to make it.
So how do you get an audience to this movie?
Speaker 3 (02:56):
Well, yeah, well because of the because of the because
of the.
Speaker 4 (03:01):
Before, the point A and the point B is the
point B is a celebration of improvement, of advancement, of revolution,
no less in care in the sheer stats. What Dr
Audrey Evans achieved with the help of Dan Dangio, radiologist
(03:23):
and you know, partner medical partner. Basically, they they it's
not it's not hyperbolic to say they revolutionized pediatric oncology
and so therefore it's obviously there is still a mortality rate,
but it was profoundly slashed by their work and.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Continues to this day.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
Amy and I were able to go into the labs
at chop and see the trailblazing work that is still
being done in research as they fight cancer. And you
know Audrey and Dan. I mean it's Audrey worked into
her eighties. She felt like her job wasn't done until
she got cancer licked, as she said, but they got
(04:07):
the improvement is just so vast that it's a celebration
of that.
Speaker 5 (04:12):
I mean, yeah, when Audrey was working, a ten percent
of children were expected to survive, and now it's eighty
And that is the movie isn't many things. One of
the things it definitely is is a love letter to
scientific research and advancement.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
I mean, she came.
Speaker 5 (04:27):
To she was British, she came to the United States
because this is where advancements in medical science were being
made and she wanted to be in the thrust of that.
And then she made her own incredible advancements. So it
really is a testimony to not only one woman's tenacity,
but also the desire to improve medical science for everyone,
(04:49):
including in this movie specifically kids. So it's a victory story.
It's a victory lap in a way, this.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Movie, and it's also a woman's rights story because this
occurred right in the early seventies, was it. When did
she start her work?
Speaker 4 (05:05):
Oh, she moved to America in the fifties because but
for exactly for that reason, because she couldn't be a
doctor at home.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
She wanted to be a surgeon. Ever since she was
a child.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
She wanted to be an MD, since she was a
little girl, carried around her own little doctor's bag when
she was a child bandaged the animals that she were
in range. You know, she always had that inclination. But
she joined you know, medical college in Edinburgh here in
the UK.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
But when the men came back from the.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
War in the fifties, you know, she was told she
had to be a nurse and she was like, no,
I want to be a doctor.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
And so that is why she went to.
Speaker 4 (05:44):
America and was a fulbright scholar and she loved home.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
She came home home frequently.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
But I mean she America became her home, of course,
and it really did because that and it was where
she was given the opportunity to.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
Be a doctor.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
And you know, it's a celebration of the female of
a female equality. And Audrey would be the first to say,
don't call me a man or a woman, just call
me a doctor.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
But you know, what she.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
Achieved, she also achieved because there were some great men
who supported her and championed her. Like see Everett Coope,
you know, you know, it was the surgeon in chief
of Chop at the time, played by the amazing Clancy Brown.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
So just as we have these amazing men in.
Speaker 4 (06:30):
Our film portraying Coop and Dananngeo and Jimmy Simpson, you
know Audrey was. She was able to take advantage of
the support she was given by the men who did
believe in equality and were on board with her passion
and her faith in her drive to work. And you know,
so again, it's a celebration. It's a celebration of gender
(06:53):
equality this movie, and it's a celebration of the men
that supported her as much of what a one woman
can do.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
I am speaking with Natalie Dormer, who was a star
of Game of Thrones playing Marjorie Tyrrell and also star
of The Tutors playing and Bolan, and also speaking with
director Amy cainan Man, and we were talking about a
movie that is opening this coming Friday, Audrey's Children, which
(07:22):
is a story of doctor Audrey Evans, who was not
only the co founder of Ronald McDonald House, which continues
to help families more and more families to this day.
I just passed one on a walk on Saint Patrick's Day,
coming back from the parade, I happen to pass the
Ronald McDonald House here in New York City. But she
(07:44):
was also a trailblazer in terms of saving children's lives,
children stricken with cancer. She was the brilliant mind behind neuroblastoma,
the staging system. It's a type of cancer that killed
that killed ninety percent of kids then, but now, you know,
(08:06):
saving so many thousands of lives. You know, it was
interesting Amy watching the guy who played the actor who
played c Everard Coupe. First of all, he looked just
like him. I know how you nailed that, but I mean, yes,
but I didn't know he lost a child to cancer.
That was a revelation. I lost a child.
Speaker 5 (08:29):
Yeah, he lost a child.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
He lost a child, right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5 (08:32):
It was Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
I mean that's the thing.
Speaker 5 (08:35):
You know, everyone can whether everyone hopefully on some level,
can identify or know somebody who or you know who
has experienced as Audrey says at the end of the film,
Audrey herself, in a bit of tape at the end
of the film says, to have something devastating happened to
your child, or your fear that something is going to
happen to your child is the worst thing. You feel
like it's it's the end. And you know, she says
(08:59):
with tenacity, with revolutionary science, you know, in some cases
it doesn't have to.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Be you know, and it is this particularly now in
you know, our very trying times. She is such a
strong voice because here is a woman. I mean, it
just shows you number one, one person can make a difference,
a significant difference in the world. And the second thing
(09:25):
is I mean, she was just such a powerful voice.
She made me think of the Tom Petty and the
Heartbreakers song won't back down because she would not back down.
She was a rule breaker and she just would not
take no for an answer. Natalie, how did she inspire you?
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Oh, well, exactly what you just said.
Speaker 4 (09:48):
I have a photograph of Audrey by my desk at
home for that very reason of you know, keep going
and look for and if you want something badly enough
and not happening, look through the next angle to approach
it from another angle.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
Because she never I mean, that was that.
Speaker 4 (10:08):
Amy and I literally had that conversation about the about
about during about about the creative choices.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Of like Audrey Evans would tell you that she.
Speaker 4 (10:17):
Didn't cry, that she that she that she never that
she never cried.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
She just resought it and came at it from another angle.
Speaker 4 (10:24):
And that's the beauty of having you know Julia Fisher Fabman,
who are a wonderful writer and producer who without there
would be no film who was. It's best for your
listeners to think of her sort of as an honorary
god daughter to Audrey Evans. That's how close she wanted
to her as a family friend. And she would say no, no,
Audie would cry. It's but it's just and did when
(10:47):
you know, you know, had what had been known to
when certain children passed and so forth. But it's just
that narrative of Audrey of Okay, well, I'm not going to.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
Linger in this. I'm not going to indulge in this.
Speaker 4 (10:58):
I'm going to think about it and I'm going to
coming it from another angle and just have a faith
that she would ultimately she would get there and I
And that is why I have a little photo of
her from my highly eclectic mood board research board that
I had when I was in Philadelphia. I have kept
one photo from my personal desk to remind me of
that fact throughout my life, that that attitude.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Rather did you become an Eagles fan in the time.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
If my driver had anything to do with it. Both
my daughters have little Eagles.
Speaker 4 (11:32):
Caps, and my partner nicked my Eagles cap if I hadn't.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Wear it, So if I could ever just get it back. Yeah,
go birds.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
Really, I will forever and I know, ye the year
that's in it, twenty twenty five. Of course, what are
year to be talking about the Eagles exactly? But no,
but truly, I mean that the that Jim Murray, the
GM of the Philadelphia Eagles at the time, you know,
the co founder of the Ron and mcdonnod house. I
will always be grateful to that man. And obviously we
(12:05):
have his son in the movie. And you know you've
got to tick the cap there, truly you do, because
you know they were they were you know, they were
part of the funding and you know or yes, that's
what I mean.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
Audrey was an incredible human being.
Speaker 4 (12:21):
But she was also surrounded by support and people who
got it, whether she managed to persuade them like Dan
Dangio or beautifully portrayed by Jimmy. I mean, what do
you think Amy is like she Yes, she was a
one off, but she got the support as well, right.
Speaker 5 (12:37):
He got the support, and they also understod the mission.
And it really is a testament to what we can
do if we all can align ourselves together and mark
shoulder to shoulder and achieving an important goal such as
let's figure out how to save these kids, let's figure
out how to make the science better, let's figure out
(12:58):
how to improve our circumstances for the benefit of the
most vulnerable among us.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
There's something else, though, I mean, she would recognize good people,
people who should surround her, people who could support her.
I think that's a lesson we all can learn, because
if you surround yourself with positive people, who have a mission,
who have a drive, who are doing something good, that
(13:25):
all rubs off, just as surrounding yourself with toxic people
that rubs off. And I think that's you know, that's
something that people don't recognize that maybe they that would
help them. We only have about a minute left. What
have we not touched on that either of you, Natalie
(13:46):
Dormer or Amy cainan Man, would you like to tell
our audience about the movie Audrey's Children opening Friday.
Speaker 5 (13:54):
I would just say, go see it.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Go see it.
Speaker 5 (13:58):
It's many things, it's it's definitely a dive into nineteen
sixty nine Philadelphia and the story of this one sort
of brilliant, sulucious, flawed human woman who looked at the
chaos in the world around her and thought this is
something I can do. Let me see if I can
make a difference here, and Natalie, yeah, I.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
Just it's there's a lot going on in the world
at the moment, and.
Speaker 4 (14:22):
It's very easy to feel depressive or angry, frustrated, a
whole host of negative feelings whatever you're leaning in life,
and it's it's very easy to feel down in the
current world. But I, you know, I think this was
this is a good This is a good movie to
remind you, to bolster you of that there is good
(14:46):
in humanity, that things can be achieved, that there are
there are people if you put your mind to it,
like minded that are looking for the higher plane. And ultimately,
Audrey said to Julia, you can make this movie. It's
all about the children. I wanted to make a difference
to children. And you know that's and that that's what
(15:07):
we've all got to hold on to, you know, for
the it's for it's for the kids, and this movie
will it's a celebration of the.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
Infinite hope that comes in the next generation.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Thank you both.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
You've been listening to Sunstein sessions on iHeartRadio, A production
of New York's classic rock Q one oh four point three,