December 17, 2024 • 35 mins
Peter Boyles joins Dan for the first of two hours, welcoming calls and breaking down his 28-year analysis of who killed young JonBenet Ramsey on Christmas night 1996.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is Dan Capless and welcome to today's online podcast
edition of The Dan Caplis Show. Please be sure to
give us a five star rating if you'd be so kind,
and to subscribe, download and listen to the show every
single day on your favorite podcast platform.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Clear off the mantle. Can it be an award winning
show today? Glad you are here?
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Eight five five four zero five eight two five five
the number you are going to want to use that
number today? Eight five five four zero five eight two
five five text d A N five seven seven three nine.
We've never had a day like this. Peter Boyles in
studio for two hours. If you are new to the planet,
and Pete, you've seen all these drones out there, so
we may very well, we may very well have Can
(00:43):
somebody adjust Pete's audio?
Speaker 3 (00:45):
I got I'm getting a KOA feed I think or
a news phone? Okay, apologize you sure that's our system here?
Could that just be Pete's superpowers pro that is wild?
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Yeah? Yeah we are.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Pete is actually getting a Haowa feed and is that
which is which is only fitting?
Speaker 4 (01:03):
Right?
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Because how many years did you do on KA I
can't remember, Yeah year, it was a lot of years.
So hey, yeah, there were you know, all those all
those drones flying around everything else. So we may very
well have Martians in the audience. If we do, and
you are new to the planet, then then Pete boils
one of the true icons in Denver radio history. And
(01:26):
we were just talking about it off air. Pete kind
of rained and ruled from this very studio for twenty
three years.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Is that right?
Speaker 3 (01:33):
I'm worked here and it's you different wallpaper? Really yeah,
you wouldn't know. Well, no, man, it's that's changed. But
the rest of it, all the setups.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Everything, Danny.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
I mean, it's first of all, thank you for letting
me come back in here and spend a.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Couple of hours. Well, thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
It's like you know, thanking a guy for accepting a
winning lottery ticket. I mean, And all those years at KOA,
how many years at KOE And that's where you and
l Berg met, right.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
When Berg and I med a k wb Z, the
mother of all talk show hosts. It was there was
there was once a very small, five thousand watt directional
daytime radio station kwb Z on West Princeton Avenue off
of South Broadway. And would he Page worked there? Mike
(02:24):
Rosen worked there. Wow, I worked there. Berg worked there.
I mean, any number of guys that you would recognize
their names today. And I always dubbed it to like
Saddam member Saddam and the mother of all battles.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Yeah, so that was the mother of all talk radios.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
How did they attract so much talent to a station
with less power than my teeth?
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Because no one took talk radio seriously? Talk radio really
doesn't come into its own And I'm writing about this
right now. First of all, a lot of credit must
be given to Rush Limbaugh. Uh. Yeah, he Limbaugh changes
the face of what we do for a living. But
(03:06):
no one took us, no one, No one took us seriously.
A matter of fact, Back to the uh to the
Ramsey case for a moment. If you recall, I was
shown the ransom note, not the copy of the ransom note,
before anyone could see it, and I made the mistake
of saying on the air that I had seen it,
only to be to be subpoened.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
What could go wrong? What could God? What could go anyhow?
Speaker 3 (03:32):
So I was in Jefferson County Jail, Jefferson County Jail,
Jefferson County Courthouse, and they were arguing whether or not
a talk show host had a press shield if we
had a First Amendment protection, and of course now we do.
But then the prosecutors who wanted to put me in
(03:52):
jail because I wouldn't talk, wouldn't say who had showed
me the note, and they said, we're going to put
you in jail, and bringing on, come on, let's go.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
What more could you want? I think we both want to, right,
Oh kid, Pete old famous.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
Sure, but that that was the That was a three
day argument whether or not I had a press shield,
and they granted me a press shield.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Yeah wow, And you obviously you would have gone to jail.
You would have stayed there as long as he needed to, right.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
How long do you think they would have kept you?
You know, I thought about that, and I knew that we.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
Both knew the share is too much trouble, and I
thought this is gonna be one of those al Capone
goes to they put furniture in there, he gets a steak, right, Yeah, No,
I was willing to go, oh yeah, and you would
have if you've never met Pete would have stayed there.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
He'd still be there. You know, we could be thirty
years later, He'll be there.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
Funny icing on the cake. I went to a fundraiser
with Frank DeAngelis and Tom Tank Cradle, two of the greats,
and I'm in a child line getting barbecue and a
little guy guy came up to me said you remember,
And I said, I apologize, but do I owe you money?
And he said, I'm the guy that wanted to put
you in jail.
Speaker 5 (05:07):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
The prosecute was the prosecutor.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Wow?
Speaker 2 (05:10):
And I one defended on Yeah, you do me a favor. Yeah.
How much was all that publicity you got for that worth?
Speaker 1 (05:17):
I mean, because again Pete built such a huge audience,
such a devoted following.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Stuff like that too. Oh well, we had a fun
run until it ended.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
You know, don't you wish I would I ever tell
you about how that ended, because Craig and I had
it must have been seven plus years. Oh, and I
get a call for management one day. Good friend of
mine remains a good friend of mine. Got a call
for management and they said, hey, man, can you meet
me over at Starbucks on the way into the show. Sure, yeah,
(05:50):
all good, get there is you know this is going
to be your last show? Well, Tomorrow's your last show.
But don't tell Craig because we want to tell Craigs.
But no, it was a great run. But you are unique, truly,
everybody would agree on that game. You are unique in
the space in so many different ways. And you know,
there are those handful of legends you can point to, right,
(06:11):
who would you put in that? I mean, there's Rosen,
there's you, there's some of the guys that I came
in afterwards. But some of the giants.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Oh, you know, remember it's in its infancy and no
one really knows what it is. It hasn't taken shape,
it hasn't taken form. It's really a function of FM radio.
When am Top forty radio, the music moves and the
kinds of music moves, and it leaves this gap of
(06:41):
top forty disc jockeys. So much like when television had
been to television comes along Jack, Benny, Bob Hope, all
the big names of radio move to television. So that
leaves a void. And then there's the big orchestras and
they decided a big union dispute and that gets blown away.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
What do they do? Disc jockeys?
Speaker 3 (07:06):
And there's this legendary moment a guy named Jack Store
and they're sitting in a bar in Kansas City.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
As the story.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
Goes, Jack Store realizes, as big as this juke.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Box is, they're only playing thirty or forty different songs. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
So that's the beginning of Top forty radio was when
it was called store Broadcasting and he knew. So that
spread like wildfire and they had Top forty.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Then you had the guys that kind of talk like that.
Remember those guys mounds and sounds and wax and welas
they do that.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
Well, hey, strained voice and so those guys, why did
they talk like that?
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Well there was a word for that. May I use it?
And of course you can't. You're gonna use it anyway.
But anyway, they were.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Called puke p uk e jocks, okay, because they when
they talk and the talk.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
It was all a Casey case imitation thing.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
Casey didn't talk that way. Casey was more of a
straight ahead guy. But when you met the real Top
forty guys and where you live in La, you know,
they did that and they ruled until two things happened,
the Warren Vietnam and Richard Nixon and Watergate happened, and
(08:27):
Jimmy Hendrix was not going to be played on AM radio,
but they took him to FM. So FM pushes AM
out again. So now they're stuck. What do we do
with these signals? And somebody starts out with talk radio,
and you know, some of the early talkers in California
and of course New York City and Miami, Larry King
(08:51):
and guys were making their making their bones. So they
just said, well, these radio stations like this had a
morning crew of hallan Arlie.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
You remember Poula Charlie.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
They were they were, they become Lewis and Flora Flora
Wax and they've they become they become that. So they
had this this big void and they want talk, and
talk caught on.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Yeah, and now.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
It's moving to podcasting. You know, it seems to be
it's always in flux, yes, but you don't.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Know where it is. And we've got to hit this break.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
When we come back for twenty one, Pete Boyles is
going to tell you who killed John Benney rim right.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Okay, we can tell yeah, okay, all right.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
For twenty one, you're on the Dan Caplas Show with
Pete Boyles.
Speaker 6 (09:46):
And now back to the Dan Kaplass Show podcastay.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Better than this. Pete Boyle's in studio with us for
two hours the Icon.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
He's been in there about fifty years now in Denver,
and he's had an impact that rinks up there with
the top two three four people I think ever to
be on air here, including Allenburg. Who we're going to
talk about, Pete want to talk Ramsey's all things Ramsey? Sure,
obviously there's some new developments on that front. But Pete
Boyles was must do radio each and every day for
(10:16):
so many decades for so.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Many different reasons.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
But as well, thank you, but it was we had
a few moments, you had decades long stretches, and Ramsey
was obviously one big stretch of that. But let's just
start at the end. Who do you believe killed John
bann A Ramsey her mother?
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Okay? And what's your best theory on how all this unfolded? Well,
because I know is it to do this show with you?
Speaker 3 (10:42):
One got my My Ramsey file and read the headline
and I guarantee you that's not in the netflix.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Okay, John ban A Ramsey murder grand jury wanted to
indict parents. Yeah, and that's all been confirmed that's public information. Yeah, yeah,
what's And obviously so many people listening, uh were very
zeroing at the time or got interested in the story
later and understanding this is all just all of our
(11:13):
best theories that nobody can prove any of this factually.
What's what's your theory as to how it actually came down?
Speaker 2 (11:23):
The little girl was in a.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
Excuse everything I'm going to say between now and the
end of the show, she was in essence of show
dog and the mother and.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Her you're saying the parents' attitude toward Oh.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
Sure, and remember maybe remember Aunt Pam, remember pat In
the history of this country, there's only been two sister
teams to be Miss fill in the blank. One was Arkansas.
Their back to back sisters were Miss Arkansas and West
Virginia Patsy Ramsey and her sister. Her sister was Miss
(12:04):
West Virginia as well, and they were I believe they
were prepping that little girl, uh to do much.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
What they had done, maybe to go on to be
Miss Miss America.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
Yeah. You and I have talked about the beauty pageant
aspect of.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
This, and by all counts, Jeanbinnet was extraordinarily talented.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
She was all this and right, I mean every Yeah,
we've seen enough. Well one of one of your many
things that we've talked about. I remember one night over
dinner where we talked about there seemed seemingly an endless
supply of that little girl performing and you and you,
(12:45):
you were inquisitive, and you said, where are all of
these tapes coming from? Where are all these performances coming from?
It seemed to be every night on television there was
another Jean Benet dressed up, doing another song, doing another routine.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
I don't know if you remember the conversation, but I'm
not sure. I remember lunch time it is.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
And it's funny because Pete and I will be talking
during breaks and I'll talk about these things like a joint, TV,
a pair or whatever, and I'm thinking, wow, it is amazing.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
You remember all that. Well, a lot of things I
don't remember.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
Yeah, but we ran up against lynn Wood, who becomes
this defender of Donald Trump, and.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Lynn Wood used to leave me.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
I don't know if the desk is still out there
or not. And I said, why didn't Why wasn't I
smart enough to keep those threats?
Speaker 2 (13:40):
That's what they were, threatening messages from lynn Wood he's voicemail.
What would they say?
Speaker 3 (13:45):
He talked like, this is Lynn wood keep it up,
you know, and I'm going to own you and words
like that. But you challenged him, and you don't remember this.
And you and I were doing somebody's television. We seemed
to be doing some but he's television show every night
and you called him. You called him on it. He said,
(14:06):
if you want to sue somebody, and I mean the
exact words aren't there, but you called li in what out?
And he what a wild ride?
Speaker 4 (14:16):
You know?
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Truth is a defense and I I've always made it clear, Hey,
these are just theories. I can't prove any of this.
I'm trying to figure it out like everybody else.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
Well, they disliked us so much because if you recall
the media divided. Remember there was Paula Woodward and there
were this group of beloved by the Ramseys and if
you remember they, I think it was in the Bolderado,
but they they built a set and then they invited
(14:48):
I don't know six or seven. I remember Paula being
one of them and Patsy Ramsey. There was a stipulation
that you could do. You could talk to the Ramses
about anything except the.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Murder of the little girl.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
An igh wise guide and said, well, we could talk
to Patsy about the euro.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Rex I mean right.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
And then they all huddled around to Ramseys and and
it was Division Street. I mean, it wasn't just it
was the Ramsey Mountain News was the Rocky Mountain News
Channel nine. There's no forgiveness for the game. The game
they're playing now was the venicea whaling?
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Oh my lord. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
And I don't want to digress, but Polis coming out
and saying that it's a figment of Danielle Cherinsky's imagination.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
And then you saw the story.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Here's that headlines from the Post or Today's or police
detain at least fifteen people after gang related kidnapping torture
at edge of Lowry apartments. And the story goes on
to quote law enforcement is saying it's it's TDA s Yeah,
but Polis says, figment of Jirinsky's imagination.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
The Channel nine did as well.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
Before our two are over to day. I want to
get your take on Jared Polis. I want to get
your take on Donald Trump. I know we're going to
disagree there, at least to an extent, I want to
get your take on everything under the sun. But what's
your take on this Netflix special on Ramsey.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
Now I'm doing something I accuse others of not doing.
It's a book I haven't read. I've read the scripts,
I've read the reviews. As I said, I do not
the best of my knowledge believe that they say about
the grand jury in nineteen ninety nine wanted to indict
(16:35):
and this was the great work you know, Jeff Charlie Brennan. Oh, yeah,
Charlie was a fine Yeah, yeah, great, definitely, and was
pretty much the writer of the book Perfect Murder, Perfect Town.
It was Charlie Brennan. He still works for the Boulder
Daily Camera. Somebody in that grand jury broke and I
(16:57):
think you know more about this stuff, but I think
it's called a runaway grand jury. And somebody came out
from inside the jury and said, we wanted to indict
them both.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Now, these are.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
The people who sat there, and it was I think
it was eight women and four men. Don't hold me
to that, but they saw everything. They saw stuff you
and I never even dreamt was there. They saw every
bit of information and actually your client, man, whose life
I think you saved, was can we talk about detectives.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Oh yeah, what a great man, What a great man,
Detective Steve Thomas. I did not save his life at all,
but I think I was privileged to be asked to
represent him, and I.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Think what a great man. They were after him, They
were after a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
And then I think a few years went past, and
then I think four four pages got out that they
wanted to indict both John and Patsy for the murder
of that little girl. And I amazed if Netflix puts
that in there.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
And can you hit this break?
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Pete Boils kind enough to spend two hours in studio
with us.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
You're up for call stupid question. It's Pete Boils to
take radio five four zero five.
Speaker 4 (18:14):
Keep you on the.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Again that we do have a seven second delay. Get
but usually that's for the callers, not the guests, but
but here maybe for the guests text yeah, both of
us five.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
That's right altogether, you're on the Dan Caplis Show.
Speaker 6 (18:38):
You're listening to the Dan Kaplis Show podcast.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
And Obvious Icon in Denver and Colorado Radio. Pete boyles
in studio for two hours with us this afternoon. We've
started out talking about the Ramsey case. We have much
more ground to cover the phone lines. Let's go start
Jane Castlerock, Colorado with Gary are On with Dan Caplis
and much more.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Important than that Peak Oils. Welcome he Gary Grevin.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
How are you my two favorite talk show hosts?
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Wow?
Speaker 5 (19:06):
Heee.
Speaker 4 (19:07):
I had a question for you. What's your take on
I saw, you know, one of them one hundred and
one different you know, Ramsey Specials or not Ramsey but
a jominator. Yeah. Over the years, and they painted a
picture for potentially the brother Burke being the murderer.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Remember he's ten years old at the time.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
And one of the.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Obvious lives of the Ramseys is that John and Patsy
had been at the whites House fleet in Priscilla White
and they had brought her home quote a sleep and
they had a jeep wagoneer whitewood sided jeep wagoneer.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Well.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
Burke Ramsey's favorite dessert was pineapple and cream and they
always kept it in the refrigerator. Well, according to John
and Patsy, that they had carried the little girl upstairs
to her bedroom, dressed her for you know, undressed her,
dressed her for the evening for sleep wear, and that
(20:10):
she had never woken up and had never well. When
they got to the autopsy and they get into her stomach,
they find pineapple and cream in her stomach, which would
indicate that she was awake when she came into the
house and she did have something to eat, and what
she ate was Burke Ramsey's favorite pineapple and cream. Now
(20:31):
that leads people went to there's a there's a theory
out there, and we shoot the dice right that she
had the two marks on her neck that I think
Paula Woodward called a stun gun. Actually, if you take
his toy train, Burke's toy train, you'll find that those
were the matching marks for a cutolved. You know, here's
(20:56):
here's the part about Burke Ramsey. It's it's stunning. We
know that when Patsy calls nine one one, she doesn't
hang up, and the tape continues to run. And according
to people that have heard the tape, and I have not,
you can hear John.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Say go back to bed, that Berke was awake.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
And now why wouldn't you say, I know how much
I love my children and your children, all of us,
But why won't you say to that boy, did you
hear anything last night? Did you see your sister? Did
anybody come upstairs last night? Did you see anything?
Speaker 2 (21:36):
Not a word. They just tell him to go back
to bed. Is this before John Benny was found?
Speaker 3 (21:43):
Yeah, before before they knew where she was. But according
to Pete Boyles, but she was before her body was found.
Remember this is early. She Patsy claims to have come downstairs.
She's dressed identically because she was the night before at
the Whites, and the Whites have pictures of Christmas night
at their house, and she has on makeup and she
has on a red sweater and black pants. She answers
(22:07):
the door UH to the cops dressed exactly the same.
She's never changed clothes and.
Speaker 4 (22:14):
But validity to the fecal snaring and the like the
mag light flashlight and the the flashlight with.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
The flashlight was wipe clean. In fact, Patsy's fingerprints are
not even on the ransom note. Patsy's You can almost
like if you visualize a mortar. She would wipe the
batteries and then drop them back into the UH into
the cell the battery. The the weapon was was the
(22:43):
cell phone. Cell phone was the was it was the
three or its four celled flashlight. It was on the counter,
and it was white, It was wipe clean. There was
not a fingerprint either on the batteries. The lenses are
on the shaft of the of the flashlight. And in
fact Patsy's fingerprints weren't even on the ransom note, and
(23:05):
so her claim to have picked up the note off
the stairs kind of goes out the window. But the
other part of his And I always thought about this too.
If if my daughter were gone and my son woke up,
would I not say to him, did you see your sister?
Did you see anybody in the house? Did you hear anything?
(23:27):
Where did she go?
Speaker 5 (23:28):
No?
Speaker 2 (23:29):
John told the kid to go back to bed. Yeah,
strong points.
Speaker 4 (23:33):
They painted a picture that the brother and sister got
into an argument and he just went into summer age,
and that he had at one point smeared feces all
over the house and just you know, potentially kind of
said that he had possibly some sort of mental health
issues and then that was possibly kind of his breaking point.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
It would have been very hard to be burke. Frankly,
I've thought about that. I mean, your sister is the
darling she's the she's the show dog.
Speaker 4 (24:08):
Attention, all the clothes, she got everything.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
Yeah, yeah, and you're going to say something, Daniel, Oh no, No,
Gary appreciate the call.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
Thank you, my friend.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
Want to try to get all the callers in.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
My own take on this.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Everything I've ever seen, I've never seen anything that that
made me believe that either Burke or John Ramsey were
involved in a crime against this this little girl. And
I've always had a theory that you've always disagreed with.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
Yeah, I know the night we had the disagreement.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Yeah, And I do want to run that theory by
people in a bit, because I still think it's a
pretty strong theory. But I'm the first to say I
simply don't know. At this point, I can't prove any
of this, but but I know that this is a case.
And why Pete in the last minute or two we
have before breaking, I want to squeeze it Downe from
Colorado Springs. Then we'll get to other callers and textures.
(25:00):
Why do you think this particular heinous crime is captivated
in America American in a way that very few others have.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
My answer is your answer, unlimited tapes of this little
kid performing the tapes themselves, and Carol McKinley and I
attempted to go to one of these pageants and they
id'd me in about two seconds.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
You beat it.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
But there seems to be unlimited amount of performing art
in some ways you can compare and contrast us to OJ.
I think there's a lot of OJ in this, but
I think she was such a beautiful little girl, an
unlimited performance behavior of the parents.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Yeah, when you get to okay, why does this with
so much awful crime in America, why does this captivate
America this way? OJ, You're right, that same question arises
there an easier starting point, right because you've got O. J.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
Simpson, sure, a pro heisman, et cetera. Did you win
the heisman? I can't remember, but he was all that.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
But with this, obviously none of these people were famous,
famous before, et cetera. So I've always believed that you're right,
I mean, without the videos to fuel things. But also,
you know, the wealth of the parents, Boulder, Colorado, the
obviously you know, very talented young lady, all of that.
But it's still even today, Oh sure, even today, Oh
(26:26):
where you're from, man coll right, somebody will mention the
John Benet Ramsey case and.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
It's almost been thirty years.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Yeah, let's try to get Don in here from Colorado
Springs with Pete Boyles on the dan KAPLA.
Speaker 4 (26:38):
You'll welcome done.
Speaker 7 (26:39):
Hey, guys, I just want to say I agree with
Peter earlier about the major markets embracing news.
Speaker 5 (26:46):
Talk and all of that.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
But I mean I said to Peter.
Speaker 5 (26:49):
One time, and you disagree with me that Denver was
kind of ground zero for the news talk format. Maybe not,
but I will say it's probably a middle market at
the time, or smaller market than though that was a
good breeding ground for news talk. I mean KLA dropping music, kwbzy, you,
Mike Rosen being on that station, in the other stations
(27:11):
trying when kwbzy bout out, So, I mean, you really
were one of the vanguards of Denver talk radio. And
like I said, congratulations to you all.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
You're kind. Hey, don don't you think part of it?
Speaker 1 (27:24):
And Pete, don't you think part of it is just
like in so many different areas, I mean, Colorado is
such a beautiful place to live. It just seems to
attract top talent in lots of different fields.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
But we're also a feeder of the city of the
format is a feeder. But if you look at the
timeframe that the caller is talking about, it's on fire
in New York, it's on fire in Miami, it's doing
very well in Washington.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
D c LA started off. I mean, were there.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
It's an explosion of a new format because the old
formats are failing.
Speaker 7 (28:00):
Yeah, and the Constantine birth help both Triple A. Although
you have Kingkin Portland, Oregon and w X in Chicago
very more KBCL, but Constantine was helpful in bringing the
tiple A format in those stations together.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
Yes, that's very great call man. Hey, sure appreciate that.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
When we come back again, Everything under the Sun with
Pete Boyles, want to talk about some of the you know,
current topics as well. I know there's plenty we disagree
on there, which is always fun. We've had fun disagreeing
for a lot of decades. That's some important.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
Yeah, that's the part that when we talked about what
did happen?
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Yeah, and I'll run my theory by you, because again,
just a theory can't prove it, but I still think
it's it's probably the most viable theory. So We'll start
by disagreeing about that. Pete boyleson studio. You're on the
Dan Capla Show.
Speaker 6 (28:56):
And now back to the Dan Taplas Show podcast to
the planet.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
Pete, one of the iconic figures in the history of
Denver media, let alone radio, and just to be able
to sort of tap his memory lane here is a
blast and again over the decades, we've agreed on plenty,
disagreed on plenty, but just always enjoyed doing it with
each other. Eight five to five for zero five A
two five five the number text d an five seven
(29:21):
seven three nine if you want to talk to Pete. Pete,
quickly my theory, because I know we have callers, we
have textures, all sorts of things going on here, and
I want to get to some of these current.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
Issues with you.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
I want to get your take on Trump, the next
Trump administration, on Polis, on the state of Colorado politics.
Just after the top will have poll results in the
Democratic Party on who their favorites are for governor now
that Polis is finally leaving. But quickly my theory, and
I know you disagree with it. My theory can't prove it,
(29:53):
don't know it to be true, but it's it's my
best take on what happened, just following the evidences I
know it is is that, and believe me, I get it.
You know the evidence a lot better than too. I
note that you have a job, you have a life
studied it in such depth. Here's my quick take. The
movie Ransom is out at the time. Remember that Mel
Gibson Ransom, this handsome, successful CEO type whose child is
(30:17):
kidnapped and mel Gibson takes on the kidnappers, engineers this
successful return becomes a world famous hero. So my theory
is that Patsy Ramsey wanted John Beny to be famous,
and that Patsy Ramsey arranged a fake kidnapping of John Benay.
The intent was that she would be held safely. Patsy
would then safely engineer her return. I don't think John
(30:40):
Ramsey was involved in any of this, and that something
went wrong in the execution of that and the child
was badly injured and then maybe killed to cover it
all up, but that it was planned as a fake
kidnapping with John Beny to be returned safely at some point.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
One piece of.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
Evidence I'd cite in favor of that is and you
may say this is all bs, but who is the
woman one of the books.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
One of the books talked about.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
A woman close to the family, maybe a family member,
who said that Joan Beney had told her that her
parents had told her, maybe her mama told her that
she was Santa Claus was going to pay a special
visit to her late on Christmas night. So that that,
you know, supports that theory in my mind if it's true,
because Joan Beney is then being prepared for some third
(31:31):
party to be introduced into all of this.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
So that's my theory.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
I'm sticking to it well, and that eventually becomes Santa
Claus mc reynolds.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Is there a name out of the past.
Speaker 3 (31:44):
Yeah, But the biggest fact is she's wearing the same
Christmas sweater from the night before, with her makeup still
on when she answers the door for the cops, and
the note, by the way says, if we so much
as see the cops, she's dead. She never wants to
sleep the night of the murder, and she claims she
went to bed and was asleep at the time of
the murder. Patsy was very high maintenance, would have never
(32:08):
been caught dead in the same outfit twice. She was
the last person to see John Benay awake. The bogus
ransom note was found in the house. Was her personal
notepad was hidden away in her drawer. The ransom note
also was in her handwriting.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
Just flipped. She is who she is.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
And it was never a who done it. It was
when the and I wrote a column was called it.
They had a phone tree, and the one thing about
the oj residents was they kept everybody out, And so
Patsy and John started calling friends. They called Reverend Hoverstock,
(32:52):
they called the Fernies, they called the Whites, the Rookie
Denver Denver Bolder police were in there. Linda Aren't if
you remember Linda and Linda Aren't. Was handed the dead
body and put the body under the Christmas tree. The
crime scene has and I don't I'm with you. I
(33:14):
don't believe John was involved, and I don't believe Burke was.
But I think there has to come a time in
the middle of the night someplace where Patsy goes to
John and they make a corporate decision. And I think
we said it either on the air or off there.
(33:34):
But in that dark room I think there's a what
we used to go a foot locker. She was in there,
and so when they hunted in the house, they couldn't
find her. But when finally Linda, Linda Arndt says one
more search, John blines down the stairs, followed by I
(33:56):
think Fernie was behind him and fleet White was behind him,
and he screams. And this is my theory where John
can see in the dark, and I think he opens
the suitcase. And when they bring her upstairs and they
hand her to Linda Aren't, and Linda Aren't puts her
(34:16):
corpse under the Christmas tree. And then the Ramsays have
the first of their lawyers. I don't know when they
get hal Hadden, but they eventually end up with hal Hadden. Now,
and they were going to leave town. He called this
pilot and said we're leaving town. And I think it
was fleet White that confronts him with John my god,
(34:40):
and they let her spend the night. Now this is
an irish thing, but she spends the night in the
morgue by herself, her body. Once you have been sitting
next to your daughter in that and there's just so
many psychological it's and pieces to this but you know,
(35:04):
they shopped for light detector tesk givers.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
They did everything.
Speaker 3 (35:12):
And in fact, here's the question that you ask And
someone asked me this and it was on one of
those final shows that we.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Did, and I said, what was it? You would really
like to know, Peter?
Speaker 3 (35:23):
And I said, I would really like to know what
Patsy Ramsey's dreams. We hear every night the Devil must
count wow and dancing her dreams. The case that is
a acrypt the nation to this day, like very few
others have. The Ramsey Case and Pete Boyles covered it
from this very seat for so many years.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
They'll stay with us another hour. We'll talk about everything
on its sun. Take your calls on the Dan Capler
Show
This is Dan Capless and welcome to today's online podcast
edition of The Dan Caplis Show. Please be sure to
give us a five star rating if you'd be so kind,
and to subscribe, download and listen to the show every
single day on your favorite podcast platform.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Clear off the mantle. Can it be an award winning
show today? Glad you are here?
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Eight five five four zero five eight two five five
the number you are going to want to use that
number today? Eight five five four zero five eight two
five five text d A N five seven seven three nine.
We've never had a day like this. Peter Boyles in
studio for two hours. If you are new to the planet,
and Pete, you've seen all these drones out there, so
we may very well, we may very well have Can
(00:43):
somebody adjust Pete's audio?
Speaker 3 (00:45):
I got I'm getting a KOA feed I think or
a news phone? Okay, apologize you sure that's our system here?
Could that just be Pete's superpowers pro that is wild?
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Yeah? Yeah we are.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Pete is actually getting a Haowa feed and is that
which is which is only fitting?
Speaker 4 (01:03):
Right?
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Because how many years did you do on KA I
can't remember, Yeah year, it was a lot of years.
So hey, yeah, there were you know, all those all
those drones flying around everything else. So we may very
well have Martians in the audience. If we do, and
you are new to the planet, then then Pete boils
one of the true icons in Denver radio history. And
(01:26):
we were just talking about it off air. Pete kind
of rained and ruled from this very studio for twenty
three years.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Is that right?
Speaker 3 (01:33):
I'm worked here and it's you different wallpaper? Really yeah,
you wouldn't know. Well, no, man, it's that's changed. But
the rest of it, all the setups.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Everything, Danny.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
I mean, it's first of all, thank you for letting
me come back in here and spend a.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Couple of hours. Well, thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
It's like you know, thanking a guy for accepting a
winning lottery ticket. I mean, And all those years at KOA,
how many years at KOE And that's where you and
l Berg met, right.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
When Berg and I med a k wb Z, the
mother of all talk show hosts. It was there was
there was once a very small, five thousand watt directional
daytime radio station kwb Z on West Princeton Avenue off
of South Broadway. And would he Page worked there? Mike
(02:24):
Rosen worked there. Wow, I worked there. Berg worked there.
I mean, any number of guys that you would recognize
their names today. And I always dubbed it to like
Saddam member Saddam and the mother of all battles.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Yeah, so that was the mother of all talk radios.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
How did they attract so much talent to a station
with less power than my teeth?
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Because no one took talk radio seriously? Talk radio really
doesn't come into its own And I'm writing about this
right now. First of all, a lot of credit must
be given to Rush Limbaugh. Uh. Yeah, he Limbaugh changes
the face of what we do for a living. But
(03:06):
no one took us, no one, No one took us seriously.
A matter of fact, Back to the uh to the
Ramsey case for a moment. If you recall, I was
shown the ransom note, not the copy of the ransom note,
before anyone could see it, and I made the mistake
of saying on the air that I had seen it,
only to be to be subpoened.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
What could go wrong? What could God? What could go anyhow?
Speaker 3 (03:32):
So I was in Jefferson County Jail, Jefferson County Jail,
Jefferson County Courthouse, and they were arguing whether or not
a talk show host had a press shield if we
had a First Amendment protection, and of course now we do.
But then the prosecutors who wanted to put me in
(03:52):
jail because I wouldn't talk, wouldn't say who had showed
me the note, and they said, we're going to put
you in jail, and bringing on, come on, let's go.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
What more could you want? I think we both want to, right,
Oh kid, Pete old famous.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
Sure, but that that was the That was a three
day argument whether or not I had a press shield,
and they granted me a press shield.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Yeah wow, And you obviously you would have gone to jail.
You would have stayed there as long as he needed to, right.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
How long do you think they would have kept you?
You know, I thought about that, and I knew that we.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
Both knew the share is too much trouble, and I
thought this is gonna be one of those al Capone
goes to they put furniture in there, he gets a steak, right, Yeah, No,
I was willing to go, oh yeah, and you would
have if you've never met Pete would have stayed there.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
He'd still be there. You know, we could be thirty
years later, He'll be there.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
Funny icing on the cake. I went to a fundraiser
with Frank DeAngelis and Tom Tank Cradle, two of the greats,
and I'm in a child line getting barbecue and a
little guy guy came up to me said you remember,
And I said, I apologize, but do I owe you money?
And he said, I'm the guy that wanted to put
you in jail.
Speaker 5 (05:07):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
The prosecute was the prosecutor.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Wow?
Speaker 2 (05:10):
And I one defended on Yeah, you do me a favor. Yeah.
How much was all that publicity you got for that worth?
Speaker 1 (05:17):
I mean, because again Pete built such a huge audience,
such a devoted following.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Stuff like that too. Oh well, we had a fun
run until it ended.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
You know, don't you wish I would I ever tell
you about how that ended, because Craig and I had
it must have been seven plus years. Oh, and I
get a call for management one day. Good friend of
mine remains a good friend of mine. Got a call
for management and they said, hey, man, can you meet
me over at Starbucks on the way into the show. Sure, yeah,
(05:50):
all good, get there is you know this is going
to be your last show? Well, Tomorrow's your last show.
But don't tell Craig because we want to tell Craigs.
But no, it was a great run. But you are unique, truly,
everybody would agree on that game. You are unique in
the space in so many different ways. And you know,
there are those handful of legends you can point to, right,
(06:11):
who would you put in that? I mean, there's Rosen,
there's you, there's some of the guys that I came
in afterwards. But some of the giants.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Oh, you know, remember it's in its infancy and no
one really knows what it is. It hasn't taken shape,
it hasn't taken form. It's really a function of FM radio.
When am Top forty radio, the music moves and the
kinds of music moves, and it leaves this gap of
(06:41):
top forty disc jockeys. So much like when television had
been to television comes along Jack, Benny, Bob Hope, all
the big names of radio move to television. So that
leaves a void. And then there's the big orchestras and
they decided a big union dispute and that gets blown away.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
What do they do? Disc jockeys?
Speaker 3 (07:06):
And there's this legendary moment a guy named Jack Store
and they're sitting in a bar in Kansas City.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
As the story.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
Goes, Jack Store realizes, as big as this juke.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Box is, they're only playing thirty or forty different songs. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
So that's the beginning of Top forty radio was when
it was called store Broadcasting and he knew. So that
spread like wildfire and they had Top forty.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Then you had the guys that kind of talk like that.
Remember those guys mounds and sounds and wax and welas
they do that.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
Well, hey, strained voice and so those guys, why did
they talk like that?
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Well there was a word for that. May I use it?
And of course you can't. You're gonna use it anyway.
But anyway, they were.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Called puke p uk e jocks, okay, because they when
they talk and the talk.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
It was all a Casey case imitation thing.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
Casey didn't talk that way. Casey was more of a
straight ahead guy. But when you met the real Top
forty guys and where you live in La, you know,
they did that and they ruled until two things happened,
the Warren Vietnam and Richard Nixon and Watergate happened, and
(08:27):
Jimmy Hendrix was not going to be played on AM radio,
but they took him to FM. So FM pushes AM
out again. So now they're stuck. What do we do
with these signals? And somebody starts out with talk radio,
and you know, some of the early talkers in California
and of course New York City and Miami, Larry King
(08:51):
and guys were making their making their bones. So they
just said, well, these radio stations like this had a
morning crew of hallan Arlie.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
You remember Poula Charlie.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
They were they were, they become Lewis and Flora Flora
Wax and they've they become they become that. So they
had this this big void and they want talk, and
talk caught on.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Yeah, and now.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
It's moving to podcasting. You know, it seems to be
it's always in flux, yes, but you don't.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Know where it is. And we've got to hit this break.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
When we come back for twenty one, Pete Boyles is
going to tell you who killed John Benney rim right.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Okay, we can tell yeah, okay, all right.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
For twenty one, you're on the Dan Caplas Show with
Pete Boyles.
Speaker 6 (09:46):
And now back to the Dan Kaplass Show podcastay.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Better than this. Pete Boyle's in studio with us for
two hours the Icon.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
He's been in there about fifty years now in Denver,
and he's had an impact that rinks up there with
the top two three four people I think ever to
be on air here, including Allenburg. Who we're going to
talk about, Pete want to talk Ramsey's all things Ramsey? Sure,
obviously there's some new developments on that front. But Pete
Boyles was must do radio each and every day for
(10:16):
so many decades for so.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Many different reasons.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
But as well, thank you, but it was we had
a few moments, you had decades long stretches, and Ramsey
was obviously one big stretch of that. But let's just
start at the end. Who do you believe killed John
bann A Ramsey her mother?
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Okay? And what's your best theory on how all this unfolded? Well,
because I know is it to do this show with you?
Speaker 3 (10:42):
One got my My Ramsey file and read the headline
and I guarantee you that's not in the netflix.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Okay, John ban A Ramsey murder grand jury wanted to
indict parents. Yeah, and that's all been confirmed that's public information. Yeah, yeah,
what's And obviously so many people listening, uh were very
zeroing at the time or got interested in the story
later and understanding this is all just all of our
(11:13):
best theories that nobody can prove any of this factually.
What's what's your theory as to how it actually came down?
Speaker 2 (11:23):
The little girl was in a.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
Excuse everything I'm going to say between now and the
end of the show, she was in essence of show
dog and the mother and.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Her you're saying the parents' attitude toward Oh.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
Sure, and remember maybe remember Aunt Pam, remember pat In
the history of this country, there's only been two sister
teams to be Miss fill in the blank. One was Arkansas.
Their back to back sisters were Miss Arkansas and West
Virginia Patsy Ramsey and her sister. Her sister was Miss
(12:04):
West Virginia as well, and they were I believe they
were prepping that little girl, uh to do much.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
What they had done, maybe to go on to be
Miss Miss America.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
Yeah. You and I have talked about the beauty pageant
aspect of.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
This, and by all counts, Jeanbinnet was extraordinarily talented.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
She was all this and right, I mean every Yeah,
we've seen enough. Well one of one of your many
things that we've talked about. I remember one night over
dinner where we talked about there seemed seemingly an endless
supply of that little girl performing and you and you,
(12:45):
you were inquisitive, and you said, where are all of
these tapes coming from? Where are all these performances coming from?
It seemed to be every night on television there was
another Jean Benet dressed up, doing another song, doing another routine.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
I don't know if you remember the conversation, but I'm
not sure. I remember lunch time it is.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
And it's funny because Pete and I will be talking
during breaks and I'll talk about these things like a joint, TV,
a pair or whatever, and I'm thinking, wow, it is amazing.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
You remember all that. Well, a lot of things I
don't remember.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
Yeah, but we ran up against lynn Wood, who becomes
this defender of Donald Trump, and.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Lynn Wood used to leave me.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
I don't know if the desk is still out there
or not. And I said, why didn't Why wasn't I
smart enough to keep those threats?
Speaker 2 (13:40):
That's what they were, threatening messages from lynn Wood he's voicemail.
What would they say?
Speaker 3 (13:45):
He talked like, this is Lynn wood keep it up,
you know, and I'm going to own you and words
like that. But you challenged him, and you don't remember this.
And you and I were doing somebody's television. We seemed
to be doing some but he's television show every night
and you called him. You called him on it. He said,
(14:06):
if you want to sue somebody, and I mean the
exact words aren't there, but you called li in what out?
And he what a wild ride?
Speaker 4 (14:16):
You know?
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Truth is a defense and I I've always made it clear, Hey,
these are just theories. I can't prove any of this.
I'm trying to figure it out like everybody else.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
Well, they disliked us so much because if you recall
the media divided. Remember there was Paula Woodward and there
were this group of beloved by the Ramseys and if
you remember they, I think it was in the Bolderado,
but they they built a set and then they invited
(14:48):
I don't know six or seven. I remember Paula being
one of them and Patsy Ramsey. There was a stipulation
that you could do. You could talk to the Ramses
about anything except the.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Murder of the little girl.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
An igh wise guide and said, well, we could talk
to Patsy about the euro.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Rex I mean right.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
And then they all huddled around to Ramseys and and
it was Division Street. I mean, it wasn't just it
was the Ramsey Mountain News was the Rocky Mountain News
Channel nine. There's no forgiveness for the game. The game
they're playing now was the venicea whaling?
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Oh my lord. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
And I don't want to digress, but Polis coming out
and saying that it's a figment of Danielle Cherinsky's imagination.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
And then you saw the story.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Here's that headlines from the Post or Today's or police
detain at least fifteen people after gang related kidnapping torture
at edge of Lowry apartments. And the story goes on
to quote law enforcement is saying it's it's TDA s Yeah,
but Polis says, figment of Jirinsky's imagination.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
The Channel nine did as well.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
Before our two are over to day. I want to
get your take on Jared Polis. I want to get
your take on Donald Trump. I know we're going to
disagree there, at least to an extent, I want to
get your take on everything under the sun. But what's
your take on this Netflix special on Ramsey.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
Now I'm doing something I accuse others of not doing.
It's a book I haven't read. I've read the scripts,
I've read the reviews. As I said, I do not
the best of my knowledge believe that they say about
the grand jury in nineteen ninety nine wanted to indict
(16:35):
and this was the great work you know, Jeff Charlie Brennan. Oh, yeah,
Charlie was a fine Yeah, yeah, great, definitely, and was
pretty much the writer of the book Perfect Murder, Perfect Town.
It was Charlie Brennan. He still works for the Boulder
Daily Camera. Somebody in that grand jury broke and I
(16:57):
think you know more about this stuff, but I think
it's called a runaway grand jury. And somebody came out
from inside the jury and said, we wanted to indict
them both.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Now, these are.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
The people who sat there, and it was I think
it was eight women and four men. Don't hold me
to that, but they saw everything. They saw stuff you
and I never even dreamt was there. They saw every
bit of information and actually your client, man, whose life
I think you saved, was can we talk about detectives.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Oh yeah, what a great man, What a great man,
Detective Steve Thomas. I did not save his life at all,
but I think I was privileged to be asked to
represent him, and I.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Think what a great man. They were after him, They
were after a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
And then I think a few years went past, and
then I think four four pages got out that they
wanted to indict both John and Patsy for the murder
of that little girl. And I amazed if Netflix puts
that in there.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
And can you hit this break?
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Pete Boils kind enough to spend two hours in studio
with us.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
You're up for call stupid question. It's Pete Boils to
take radio five four zero five.
Speaker 4 (18:14):
Keep you on the.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Again that we do have a seven second delay. Get
but usually that's for the callers, not the guests, but
but here maybe for the guests text yeah, both of
us five.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
That's right altogether, you're on the Dan Caplis Show.
Speaker 6 (18:38):
You're listening to the Dan Kaplis Show podcast.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
And Obvious Icon in Denver and Colorado Radio. Pete boyles
in studio for two hours with us this afternoon. We've
started out talking about the Ramsey case. We have much
more ground to cover the phone lines. Let's go start
Jane Castlerock, Colorado with Gary are On with Dan Caplis
and much more.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Important than that Peak Oils. Welcome he Gary Grevin.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
How are you my two favorite talk show hosts?
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Wow?
Speaker 5 (19:06):
Heee.
Speaker 4 (19:07):
I had a question for you. What's your take on
I saw, you know, one of them one hundred and
one different you know, Ramsey Specials or not Ramsey but
a jominator. Yeah. Over the years, and they painted a
picture for potentially the brother Burke being the murderer.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Remember he's ten years old at the time.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
And one of the.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Obvious lives of the Ramseys is that John and Patsy
had been at the whites House fleet in Priscilla White
and they had brought her home quote a sleep and
they had a jeep wagoneer whitewood sided jeep wagoneer.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Well.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
Burke Ramsey's favorite dessert was pineapple and cream and they
always kept it in the refrigerator. Well, according to John
and Patsy, that they had carried the little girl upstairs
to her bedroom, dressed her for you know, undressed her,
dressed her for the evening for sleep wear, and that
(20:10):
she had never woken up and had never well. When
they got to the autopsy and they get into her stomach,
they find pineapple and cream in her stomach, which would
indicate that she was awake when she came into the
house and she did have something to eat, and what
she ate was Burke Ramsey's favorite pineapple and cream. Now
(20:31):
that leads people went to there's a there's a theory
out there, and we shoot the dice right that she
had the two marks on her neck that I think
Paula Woodward called a stun gun. Actually, if you take
his toy train, Burke's toy train, you'll find that those
were the matching marks for a cutolved. You know, here's
(20:56):
here's the part about Burke Ramsey. It's it's stunning. We
know that when Patsy calls nine one one, she doesn't
hang up, and the tape continues to run. And according
to people that have heard the tape, and I have not,
you can hear John.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Say go back to bed, that Berke was awake.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
And now why wouldn't you say, I know how much
I love my children and your children, all of us,
But why won't you say to that boy, did you
hear anything last night? Did you see your sister? Did
anybody come upstairs last night? Did you see anything?
Speaker 2 (21:36):
Not a word. They just tell him to go back
to bed. Is this before John Benny was found?
Speaker 3 (21:43):
Yeah, before before they knew where she was. But according
to Pete Boyles, but she was before her body was found.
Remember this is early. She Patsy claims to have come downstairs.
She's dressed identically because she was the night before at
the Whites, and the Whites have pictures of Christmas night
at their house, and she has on makeup and she
has on a red sweater and black pants. She answers
(22:07):
the door UH to the cops dressed exactly the same.
She's never changed clothes and.
Speaker 4 (22:14):
But validity to the fecal snaring and the like the
mag light flashlight and the the flashlight with.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
The flashlight was wipe clean. In fact, Patsy's fingerprints are
not even on the ransom note. Patsy's You can almost
like if you visualize a mortar. She would wipe the
batteries and then drop them back into the UH into
the cell the battery. The the weapon was was the
(22:43):
cell phone. Cell phone was the was it was the
three or its four celled flashlight. It was on the counter,
and it was white, It was wipe clean. There was
not a fingerprint either on the batteries. The lenses are
on the shaft of the of the flashlight. And in
fact Patsy's fingerprints weren't even on the ransom note, and
(23:05):
so her claim to have picked up the note off
the stairs kind of goes out the window. But the
other part of his And I always thought about this too.
If if my daughter were gone and my son woke up,
would I not say to him, did you see your sister?
Did you see anybody in the house? Did you hear anything?
(23:27):
Where did she go?
Speaker 5 (23:28):
No?
Speaker 2 (23:29):
John told the kid to go back to bed. Yeah,
strong points.
Speaker 4 (23:33):
They painted a picture that the brother and sister got
into an argument and he just went into summer age,
and that he had at one point smeared feces all
over the house and just you know, potentially kind of
said that he had possibly some sort of mental health
issues and then that was possibly kind of his breaking point.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
It would have been very hard to be burke. Frankly,
I've thought about that. I mean, your sister is the
darling she's the she's the show dog.
Speaker 4 (24:08):
Attention, all the clothes, she got everything.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
Yeah, yeah, and you're going to say something, Daniel, Oh no, No,
Gary appreciate the call.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
Thank you, my friend.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
Want to try to get all the callers in.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
My own take on this.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Everything I've ever seen, I've never seen anything that that
made me believe that either Burke or John Ramsey were
involved in a crime against this this little girl. And
I've always had a theory that you've always disagreed with.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
Yeah, I know the night we had the disagreement.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Yeah, And I do want to run that theory by
people in a bit, because I still think it's a
pretty strong theory. But I'm the first to say I
simply don't know. At this point, I can't prove any
of this, but but I know that this is a case.
And why Pete in the last minute or two we
have before breaking, I want to squeeze it Downe from
Colorado Springs. Then we'll get to other callers and textures.
(25:00):
Why do you think this particular heinous crime is captivated
in America American in a way that very few others have.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
My answer is your answer, unlimited tapes of this little
kid performing the tapes themselves, and Carol McKinley and I
attempted to go to one of these pageants and they
id'd me in about two seconds.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
You beat it.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
But there seems to be unlimited amount of performing art
in some ways you can compare and contrast us to OJ.
I think there's a lot of OJ in this, but
I think she was such a beautiful little girl, an
unlimited performance behavior of the parents.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Yeah, when you get to okay, why does this with
so much awful crime in America, why does this captivate
America this way? OJ, You're right, that same question arises
there an easier starting point, right because you've got O. J.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
Simpson, sure, a pro heisman, et cetera. Did you win
the heisman? I can't remember, but he was all that.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
But with this, obviously none of these people were famous,
famous before, et cetera. So I've always believed that you're right,
I mean, without the videos to fuel things. But also,
you know, the wealth of the parents, Boulder, Colorado, the
obviously you know, very talented young lady, all of that.
But it's still even today, Oh sure, even today, Oh
(26:26):
where you're from, man coll right, somebody will mention the
John Benet Ramsey case and.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
It's almost been thirty years.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Yeah, let's try to get Don in here from Colorado
Springs with Pete Boyles on the dan KAPLA.
Speaker 4 (26:38):
You'll welcome done.
Speaker 7 (26:39):
Hey, guys, I just want to say I agree with
Peter earlier about the major markets embracing news.
Speaker 5 (26:46):
Talk and all of that.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
But I mean I said to Peter.
Speaker 5 (26:49):
One time, and you disagree with me that Denver was
kind of ground zero for the news talk format. Maybe not,
but I will say it's probably a middle market at
the time, or smaller market than though that was a
good breeding ground for news talk. I mean KLA dropping music, kwbzy, you,
Mike Rosen being on that station, in the other stations
(27:11):
trying when kwbzy bout out, So, I mean, you really
were one of the vanguards of Denver talk radio. And
like I said, congratulations to you all.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
You're kind. Hey, don don't you think part of it?
Speaker 1 (27:24):
And Pete, don't you think part of it is just
like in so many different areas, I mean, Colorado is
such a beautiful place to live. It just seems to
attract top talent in lots of different fields.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
But we're also a feeder of the city of the
format is a feeder. But if you look at the
timeframe that the caller is talking about, it's on fire
in New York, it's on fire in Miami, it's doing
very well in Washington.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
D c LA started off. I mean, were there.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
It's an explosion of a new format because the old
formats are failing.
Speaker 7 (28:00):
Yeah, and the Constantine birth help both Triple A. Although
you have Kingkin Portland, Oregon and w X in Chicago
very more KBCL, but Constantine was helpful in bringing the
tiple A format in those stations together.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
Yes, that's very great call man. Hey, sure appreciate that.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
When we come back again, Everything under the Sun with
Pete Boyles, want to talk about some of the you know,
current topics as well. I know there's plenty we disagree
on there, which is always fun. We've had fun disagreeing
for a lot of decades. That's some important.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
Yeah, that's the part that when we talked about what
did happen?
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Yeah, and I'll run my theory by you, because again,
just a theory can't prove it, but I still think
it's it's probably the most viable theory. So We'll start
by disagreeing about that. Pete boyleson studio. You're on the
Dan Capla Show.
Speaker 6 (28:56):
And now back to the Dan Taplas Show podcast to
the planet.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
Pete, one of the iconic figures in the history of
Denver media, let alone radio, and just to be able
to sort of tap his memory lane here is a
blast and again over the decades, we've agreed on plenty,
disagreed on plenty, but just always enjoyed doing it with
each other. Eight five to five for zero five A
two five five the number text d an five seven
(29:21):
seven three nine if you want to talk to Pete. Pete,
quickly my theory, because I know we have callers, we
have textures, all sorts of things going on here, and
I want to get to some of these current.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
Issues with you.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
I want to get your take on Trump, the next
Trump administration, on Polis, on the state of Colorado politics.
Just after the top will have poll results in the
Democratic Party on who their favorites are for governor now
that Polis is finally leaving. But quickly my theory, and
I know you disagree with it. My theory can't prove it,
(29:53):
don't know it to be true, but it's it's my
best take on what happened, just following the evidences I
know it is is that, and believe me, I get it.
You know the evidence a lot better than too. I
note that you have a job, you have a life
studied it in such depth. Here's my quick take. The
movie Ransom is out at the time. Remember that Mel
Gibson Ransom, this handsome, successful CEO type whose child is
(30:17):
kidnapped and mel Gibson takes on the kidnappers, engineers this
successful return becomes a world famous hero. So my theory
is that Patsy Ramsey wanted John Beny to be famous,
and that Patsy Ramsey arranged a fake kidnapping of John Benay.
The intent was that she would be held safely. Patsy
would then safely engineer her return. I don't think John
(30:40):
Ramsey was involved in any of this, and that something
went wrong in the execution of that and the child
was badly injured and then maybe killed to cover it
all up, but that it was planned as a fake
kidnapping with John Beny to be returned safely at some point.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
One piece of.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
Evidence I'd cite in favor of that is and you
may say this is all bs, but who is the
woman one of the books.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
One of the books talked about.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
A woman close to the family, maybe a family member,
who said that Joan Beney had told her that her
parents had told her, maybe her mama told her that
she was Santa Claus was going to pay a special
visit to her late on Christmas night. So that that,
you know, supports that theory in my mind if it's true,
because Joan Beney is then being prepared for some third
(31:31):
party to be introduced into all of this.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
So that's my theory.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
I'm sticking to it well, and that eventually becomes Santa
Claus mc reynolds.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Is there a name out of the past.
Speaker 3 (31:44):
Yeah, But the biggest fact is she's wearing the same
Christmas sweater from the night before, with her makeup still
on when she answers the door for the cops, and
the note, by the way says, if we so much
as see the cops, she's dead. She never wants to
sleep the night of the murder, and she claims she
went to bed and was asleep at the time of
the murder. Patsy was very high maintenance, would have never
(32:08):
been caught dead in the same outfit twice. She was
the last person to see John Benay awake. The bogus
ransom note was found in the house. Was her personal
notepad was hidden away in her drawer. The ransom note
also was in her handwriting.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
Just flipped. She is who she is.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
And it was never a who done it. It was
when the and I wrote a column was called it.
They had a phone tree, and the one thing about
the oj residents was they kept everybody out, And so
Patsy and John started calling friends. They called Reverend Hoverstock,
(32:52):
they called the Fernies, they called the Whites, the Rookie
Denver Denver Bolder police were in there. Linda Aren't if
you remember Linda and Linda Aren't. Was handed the dead
body and put the body under the Christmas tree. The
crime scene has and I don't I'm with you. I
(33:14):
don't believe John was involved, and I don't believe Burke was.
But I think there has to come a time in
the middle of the night someplace where Patsy goes to
John and they make a corporate decision. And I think
we said it either on the air or off there.
(33:34):
But in that dark room I think there's a what
we used to go a foot locker. She was in there,
and so when they hunted in the house, they couldn't
find her. But when finally Linda, Linda Arndt says one
more search, John blines down the stairs, followed by I
(33:56):
think Fernie was behind him and fleet White was behind him,
and he screams. And this is my theory where John
can see in the dark, and I think he opens
the suitcase. And when they bring her upstairs and they
hand her to Linda Aren't, and Linda Aren't puts her
(34:16):
corpse under the Christmas tree. And then the Ramsays have
the first of their lawyers. I don't know when they
get hal Hadden, but they eventually end up with hal Hadden. Now,
and they were going to leave town. He called this
pilot and said we're leaving town. And I think it
was fleet White that confronts him with John my god,
(34:40):
and they let her spend the night. Now this is
an irish thing, but she spends the night in the
morgue by herself, her body. Once you have been sitting
next to your daughter in that and there's just so
many psychological it's and pieces to this but you know,
(35:04):
they shopped for light detector tesk givers.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
They did everything.
Speaker 3 (35:12):
And in fact, here's the question that you ask And
someone asked me this and it was on one of
those final shows that we.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Did, and I said, what was it? You would really
like to know, Peter?
Speaker 3 (35:23):
And I said, I would really like to know what
Patsy Ramsey's dreams. We hear every night the Devil must
count wow and dancing her dreams. The case that is
a acrypt the nation to this day, like very few
others have. The Ramsey Case and Pete Boyles covered it
from this very seat for so many years.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
They'll stay with us another hour. We'll talk about everything
on its sun. Take your calls on the Dan Capler
Show
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