Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Over the past couple of days, I've had a few
guests on the show in two different segments, representing a
group called Save Old Littleton, who are expressing some objections
to proposed new residential zoning rules in the town of Littleton.
And I had sent an email to the entire city
(00:21):
council of Littleton very early this morning. I woke up
stupidly early, and I think I sent them an email
at four forty five in the morning or something like that,
and the mayor of Littleton emailed me back. Kyle Schlackter
emailed me back, and Kyle said that he had heard
yesterday's conversation at least and thought that my guests and
(00:45):
perhaps I said some things that were incorrect. And of
course my goal here as your talk show host is
not to be a propagandist.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
I want to get you the information.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
If you live in Littleton, I want you to know
what the city government is thinking about and what they
might be doing that might affect you, so you can
decide whether to support it or oppose it, or propose.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Some modification or something.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
And I asked Kyle if you would join the show
to not necessarily give the yes side, but kind of
give the whole picture and at least give the argument
for the yes side, even if that's not.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Necessarily where he is.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
So with that very long introduction, Kyle Schlacter, Mayor of Littleton,
Welcome to Kaaway.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Good morning, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
I'm very glad to do it.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
So why don't we start with as brief as summary
as you can of the key points proposed in the ordinance.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Well, I mean, this ordinance is a long time coming here.
You know, this has been going on, you know, as
you know and you said on your other segments that
housing is a top priority, not just in Littleton, but
the Denver area, in the whole of Colorado here, and
so you know, for the last several years we've been
can a look at how we can address the housing
situation here. Resulton our you know, our residence survey, we
(02:05):
hear people come into council meetings and say, hey, there's
not enough options for housing, they're too expensive and things
like that. And so I mean, this ordinance is a
multipaceed I mean, it got its start actually from having
to come into compliance with the new state law with
accessory dwelling units. And so when we looked at that
(02:26):
and we said, well, this is a good time to
take a comprehensive look at what's housing in our in
our city. You know, back in January especially four, a
whole year ago, you know, we had a study session,
talked to our city staff and said, can you come
back with some ideas of how this could work? And
this is you know, the idea with this is looking
at just parts of our community right now. In twenty
(02:48):
twenty two, we passed an inclusion of our housing ordinance that
took a look at affordability in multi family zones. And
that's been going off for two years. And that's not
the silver that's not going to fix everything. This has
to be more holistic and so staff convened a stakeholder group,
(03:09):
we had resident surveys, and we've met five times over
the past year, public meetings posted discussing that. And what
this ordinance does is takes a look at some of
our residential zone and the digits of it is to
provide some more housing options. And the way we're going
(03:31):
about doing that is simply removing some of the regulations
that are in our code.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Okay, and let me just ask you, you know, going forward,
just in the interested time, just give me give slightly
shorter answers. And also, you know, keep in mind not
everybody listening lives in Littleton, but I think this is
an issue that will end up applying in lots of neighborhoods.
So I kind of want to, you know, do sort
of the micro of what you're dealing with and also
the macro about the issues.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
So the gist of this is in residential zones, and
we have of a small lot, medium lot, and large
lot where only single family homes will go. Right now,
we're saying, well, what if we allow some duplexes and
then what we're calling multiplexes that are three and four triplexes,
three and four plexes there that are the same look
(04:19):
and feel and size of the single family homes that
are currently there.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Right now, Okay, that's what that is, all right, And
so I don't I'm not, or at least I haven't
taken a position on this, and I like to play
Devil's Advocate with all my guests, no matter where I
am on a thing. So I'll just ask you, all right,
mister mayer Iya, I bought a house in Littleton eight
(04:44):
years ago. In this lovely neighborhood of single family homes
because of the charm and character of the neighborhood. And
if we start allowing houses, even if it's just a
modest number of them, to be turned into three plexes
and four plexes, it's going to.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Really change the character of the neighborhood.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
And that's not fair because so many of us bought
here based on our understanding of the character of the neighborhood.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
Well, I mean, when that house that you just bought
was built, it changed the character the neighborhood. I mean,
the character the neighborhood continuously changes. I mean, if you
go back one hundred and fifty years, Littleton was just
a bunch of fields. And so we know we have
we're trying to modernize our code to meet with the
issues of today, not the issues of fifty years ago.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
I don't think that, I mean, the stuff about how
it changes all the time is true.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
It's not true that my buying a.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
House from you changes the character of the neighborhood, though,
how right.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
I don't think that part is true. I guess you know.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
The other thing that I wonder though, is are the
people who are saying that the character of the neighborhood
will change a lot. Are they overstating that point?
Speaker 2 (05:52):
You know, if there's twenty.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Houses in the neighborhood and one changes to a triplex,
does it really change the neighborhood? Do you have a
sense in expation of how much could change?
Speaker 2 (06:02):
And does the ordinance have.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Any limits on how many single family homes in a
particular area could change to multi family.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
Well, we don't have a limit on the absolute number
of how many, but looking at sales figures demand, I mean,
most people that are buying a single family home want
that single family home. There's a few. You know, we're
trying to give people the right to do what they
want with their property.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
If you know, I.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Actually went through this personally a handful of years ago
when I was trying to see if my mother in
law to move and if we could build an adu
or compart our house into duplets. And the house that
I live in right now isn't allowed, isn't zoned for that,
So she actually bought the house next to us, And
you know, we would actually still rather to save space
and money to have a duplex at our plays here,
(06:47):
and so you know, I don't think one changes it
I think it's you know, this is supplying demand.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
We're talking with Kyle Schlatter, who is the mayor of Littleton. Well,
I'm going to get back in to some of the
policy and politics in a second, but I just want
to make sure I ask this to you. Do you
have an expectation of what will happen at this evening's vote?
Speaker 2 (07:11):
I mean, I think I.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Think the most likely expectations are either that it passes
or gets postponed.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
I think it's unlikely that it just fails. But do
you have a guess?
Speaker 3 (07:22):
I stopped predicting the future years ago. I got wrong,
So I don't have an expectation or assumption. You know,
I've heard some of the council members want to postpone it.
I've heard some that want to pass it. I've heard
that there's some amendments changes a little bit here, So
it's probably a good guest one of those.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Three will right.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Okay, So from your perspective as mayor, what would the
downside be of postponing the decision? And you know, I
want to just state for the record because I'm as
guilty of it as anybody that lots of times citizens
don't pay enough attention to what their city government is doing.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
And I don't mean that the city government is doing
something wrong.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
The city government is doing whatever the city government is doing,
and they're posting the notice here or there, and here's
the meeting and you can come, and nobody does until
suddenly there's something that gets people pissed off and then
they decide they're going to be mad and go, you know,
go do something. So it's entirely possible that that's what
happened here. But given that that seems to be happening
here on some scale, mister mayor, why not just postpone
(08:26):
it since it's becoming a much bigger, more public issue
and take more input.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Well, first of all, I just want to say I
want to thank all the people that have spoken up
and gotten involved. This is I mean city COMPLI left
to officials love to hear from constituents, to hear how
policy changes, policy decisions impact them, and that I think
it's great. I wish people had been involved for the
past year when we've been talking about this, so I
think it's really great to involve that now. I think
there's been a lot of work put in to this,
(08:56):
and you know, we're going to continue this discussion. This
isn't saying, Okay, are gonna, you know, wipe for hands.
If this passes tonight, we're done. We're not going to
do anything else. We're not gonna look at how we
can change things in the future. If it gets postponed,
We're not gonna we're going to continue talking. I mean,
if it failed, we're still going to keep talking about.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
How what's the downside of postponing? What why not postpone it?
Speaker 3 (09:20):
I mean, there is a we can the downsid has
continued to kick the can down the road and never
making a decision. So I think it's important that you know,
we have to make a decision at some point. Is
tonight tonight? Maybe maybe it's six weeks from now, is
it six months from now? I don't know.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
What about putting it on the ballot and letting the
voters decide again.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
That's a slippery slope of what, you know, it is
every decision that a city council needs to take go
on the ballot. I think that's why we have a
lot of officials. I mean, I get that how many
people said they opposed the ordinance that hadn't read the
ordinance and didn't understand it. And when I kind of
the dialogue with them can open their eyes and they
were I think, led to believe that it is something
(09:59):
that it isn't something that it really is.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
So I mean, I mean, it sounds like you're implying
in a way that part of your objection to putting
it on the ballot is you think a lot of
uninformed people would vote against it.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
No, I'm not saying about uninformed as just the process
of how ordinances and legislation gets don't everything.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
No, I look, I don't like legislating by ballot measure.
Every once in a while something comes up that is
such a big decision that it's at least worth considering.
And I'm sure other people are going to ask you
this question now.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
You you mentioned that part of the.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Reason this issue came up is because of what the
state did with ADUs accessory dwelling units. What about from
the from Littleton's perspective, what about doing one ordinance that
deals with ADUs, which probably relatively easy, and then a
second thing to deal with kind of changing the zoning
to allow duplex and multiplex kind of thing.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Yeah, it's definitely an option over the past year, when
we've had discussions with our community and staff, we thought
it was more efficient to move this way, and that's
why we've That's why we've done it this way.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
So much of the conversation, especially from the governor, about
all of these issues in Colorado, and it is almost everywhere,
at least along the Front Range, is about increasing the
supply of reasonably affordable housing. And just for listeners, I
want to make something clear. A lot of times you
hear the term affordable housing, You've used in two different ways.
(11:33):
One is for low income subsidized housing.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
That's not what we're talking about here.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
I mean the term affordable housing in a more normal
sort of sense, which is to say, housing that an
ordinary working couple could likely afford to buy a house
that is very difficult to find in the Denver metro
area these days. So it is how much of this plan, Kyle,
is an effort to help that.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
I mean it's an indirect result. I think it's increasing
the supply. I mean there's a lack of supply of
smaller units. Say, you know, you can look at town
homes and condos. The reason condos haven't been built that
people can't buy them is because of litigration reform, we
need to change some of that, and so as part
of the Metro Maris Talcus, I've been advocating for support
(12:23):
of that, and you know, when the governor proposed to thirteen,
I was an opposition of that because you know, I'm
a big believer in local control, letting the local community
figure out what's best. And we've had over a year
of discussion on this, and you know, some of the
discussion that we've heard is that we're changing on anyway
white and not making all the same. The limits and
(12:44):
requirements for each of our residential zoning areas are remaining
in place where they are still distinct and unique. We're
just tweaking a little bit to add a different type
of housing product that is currently not widely available and
letting people choose to do that on their property if
they so want, if they don't. We're not mandating anyone
(13:05):
tear down the house or build a duplex. You know,
if you know no duplexes get built, well, that's that's
letting the free market kind of decide that we want
our community to reflect the people that live here.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Now, any comments on something that one of the sabled Littleton.
People said on my show a couple hours ago about
at least some neighborhoods you wouldn't be able to add
density because of fire code.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
If a development is not allowed to go through because
of code requirements, I mean, there's the code there to
protect people, to let them know what they can and
can't do it. I mean, I don't think that we're
not going to go through parsonal By parcel and say, well,
this parsal you can build on, this one you can't.
It's it's easier if you set the code across the
zones and say this is one of the requirements. If
(13:54):
it doesn't work for a certain parcel or certain neighborhood,
it doesn't work. And that's why the code's there.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
A listener has a question I think sort of gets
to the heart at maybe what some of the people
who are opposed are concerned about. And I say that
with the caveat that, you know, maybe they don't understand.
You say that at least some people who are against
it don't understand the ordinance very well.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
But here's what this listener says.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
He says, I'm an investor and I would absolutely come
in and buy a house and turn it into a
triplex for rental purposes. What happens to Littleton when Blackrock
decides to do that on a very large scale.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
You know what people are going to do with their properties.
Right now, we have people that buy single family homes
and tournament to rentals, and so I think that's you know,
the free will to market there if someone wants to
do that. I think increasing the supply of housing is
a good thing for a community, and that's what we've
heard that our community wants.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Or are you open to the idea of some kind
of limit. You know, a neighborhood that is currently single
family home only will not be allowed to be more
than x percent by I don't know actual count of
houses or something, will not be more than x percent
multi family.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
That's something we can explore. It's not something I'm a
four against right now. I think that gets back into
then you know, the first in the door and then
you shut the door behind you, doesn't let people, you know, will.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
I know there's unintended consequences for everything. I'm just trying
to I'm trying to brainstorm ways that you know that
there might be a compromise to be had here, although
perhaps no compromise is necessary.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Maybe maybe the yes side has all the votes they.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Need and and I don't want to say they don't
care about the people who are against it, but they
are not convinced by the people who are against it,
and maybe maybe there isn't even a compromise necessary.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
And I will say that the reason we brought this
up because there is a contingent of people in our
community that want this, and we asked that to look
at this doesn't sense is what was health? The problem
of housing? And it's not as cut and dry as
a whole ground swell of people are against it. There's
a fair number of support.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
I'd be curious who those people are other than developers
who are in Littleton already. I mean, I can imagine
people who live in Denver and want to move to
Littleton and would like to move to a seven hundred
thousand dollars town home or whatever it's going to be.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
But I'm wondering who.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
The people are who are in Littleton now who are
in favor of this, other than developers or people who
hope that the city gets more property taxes over.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
There from that support, this tend to be younger tend
to live in smaller homes right now, be renters looking
to be able to buy. And it seems at least
the majority of the emails that I've received over the
past week come from two or maybe three neighborhoods that
are definitely the higher housing cost neighborhoods there. So there's
(17:00):
a bit of a I think it's kind of a
generational divide.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
I can. I can imagine that to a certain degree.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
This is one of those things that are the difficult
decisions that people get elected to to sort out. I
wish you well sorting it out. I think I hope
it gets postponed. But I don't live in Littleton anymore.
I used to, but I don't live there now, So
you know, I'm not going to vote on it, and
I'm not going to show up and express an opinion
because I don't live there. But I really appreciate your
(17:29):
taking the time to come join us on the show
and give the you know, a point of view that
my guests yesterday and today didn't give.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
And I appreciate that.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Kyle. Yeah, and I thank you for having me, and
I you know, I just want to tell all your
listeners to Get involved with your local government. All the
people in Littleton to have reached out recently. Stay involved.
Don't just come out when something that impacts just your
neighborhood or just your neighbor I think it's really important
we get more people involved.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Couldn't agree with you more, couldn't agree with you more.
Kyle Schlachter is Mayor of Littleton. Thanks so much for
your time, keep in touch.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
Thanks every day you too,
Over the past couple of days, I've had a few
guests on the show in two different segments, representing a
group called Save Old Littleton, who are expressing some objections
to proposed new residential zoning rules in the town of Littleton.
And I had sent an email to the entire city
(00:21):
council of Littleton very early this morning. I woke up
stupidly early, and I think I sent them an email
at four forty five in the morning or something like that,
and the mayor of Littleton emailed me back. Kyle Schlackter
emailed me back, and Kyle said that he had heard
yesterday's conversation at least and thought that my guests and
(00:45):
perhaps I said some things that were incorrect. And of
course my goal here as your talk show host is
not to be a propagandist.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
I want to get you the information.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
If you live in Littleton, I want you to know
what the city government is thinking about and what they
might be doing that might affect you, so you can
decide whether to support it or oppose it, or propose.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Some modification or something.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
And I asked Kyle if you would join the show
to not necessarily give the yes side, but kind of
give the whole picture and at least give the argument
for the yes side, even if that's not.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Necessarily where he is.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
So with that very long introduction, Kyle Schlacter, Mayor of Littleton,
Welcome to Kaaway.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Good morning, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
I'm very glad to do it.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
So why don't we start with as brief as summary
as you can of the key points proposed in the ordinance.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Well, I mean, this ordinance is a long time coming here.
You know, this has been going on, you know, as
you know and you said on your other segments that
housing is a top priority, not just in Littleton, but
the Denver area, in the whole of Colorado here, and
so you know, for the last several years we've been
can a look at how we can address the housing
situation here. Resulton our you know, our residence survey, we
(02:05):
hear people come into council meetings and say, hey, there's
not enough options for housing, they're too expensive and things
like that. And so I mean, this ordinance is a
multipaceed I mean, it got its start actually from having
to come into compliance with the new state law with
accessory dwelling units. And so when we looked at that
(02:26):
and we said, well, this is a good time to
take a comprehensive look at what's housing in our in
our city. You know, back in January especially four, a
whole year ago, you know, we had a study session,
talked to our city staff and said, can you come
back with some ideas of how this could work? And
this is you know, the idea with this is looking
at just parts of our community right now. In twenty
(02:48):
twenty two, we passed an inclusion of our housing ordinance that
took a look at affordability in multi family zones. And
that's been going off for two years. And that's not
the silver that's not going to fix everything. This has
to be more holistic and so staff convened a stakeholder group,
(03:09):
we had resident surveys, and we've met five times over
the past year, public meetings posted discussing that. And what
this ordinance does is takes a look at some of
our residential zone and the digits of it is to
provide some more housing options. And the way we're going
(03:31):
about doing that is simply removing some of the regulations
that are in our code.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Okay, and let me just ask you, you know, going forward,
just in the interested time, just give me give slightly
shorter answers. And also, you know, keep in mind not
everybody listening lives in Littleton, but I think this is
an issue that will end up applying in lots of neighborhoods.
So I kind of want to, you know, do sort
of the micro of what you're dealing with and also
the macro about the issues.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
So the gist of this is in residential zones, and
we have of a small lot, medium lot, and large
lot where only single family homes will go. Right now,
we're saying, well, what if we allow some duplexes and
then what we're calling multiplexes that are three and four triplexes,
three and four plexes there that are the same look
(04:19):
and feel and size of the single family homes that
are currently there.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Right now, Okay, that's what that is, all right, And
so I don't I'm not, or at least I haven't
taken a position on this, and I like to play
Devil's Advocate with all my guests, no matter where I
am on a thing. So I'll just ask you, all right,
mister mayer Iya, I bought a house in Littleton eight
(04:44):
years ago. In this lovely neighborhood of single family homes
because of the charm and character of the neighborhood. And
if we start allowing houses, even if it's just a
modest number of them, to be turned into three plexes
and four plexes, it's going to.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Really change the character of the neighborhood.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
And that's not fair because so many of us bought
here based on our understanding of the character of the neighborhood.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
Well, I mean, when that house that you just bought
was built, it changed the character the neighborhood. I mean,
the character the neighborhood continuously changes. I mean, if you
go back one hundred and fifty years, Littleton was just
a bunch of fields. And so we know we have
we're trying to modernize our code to meet with the
issues of today, not the issues of fifty years ago.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
I don't think that, I mean, the stuff about how
it changes all the time is true.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
It's not true that my buying a.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
House from you changes the character of the neighborhood, though,
how right.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
I don't think that part is true. I guess you know.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
The other thing that I wonder though, is are the
people who are saying that the character of the neighborhood
will change a lot. Are they overstating that point?
Speaker 2 (05:52):
You know, if there's twenty.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Houses in the neighborhood and one changes to a triplex,
does it really change the neighborhood? Do you have a
sense in expation of how much could change?
Speaker 2 (06:02):
And does the ordinance have.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Any limits on how many single family homes in a
particular area could change to multi family.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
Well, we don't have a limit on the absolute number
of how many, but looking at sales figures demand, I mean,
most people that are buying a single family home want
that single family home. There's a few. You know, we're
trying to give people the right to do what they
want with their property.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
If you know, I.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Actually went through this personally a handful of years ago
when I was trying to see if my mother in
law to move and if we could build an adu
or compart our house into duplets. And the house that
I live in right now isn't allowed, isn't zoned for that,
So she actually bought the house next to us, And
you know, we would actually still rather to save space
and money to have a duplex at our plays here,
(06:47):
and so you know, I don't think one changes it
I think it's you know, this is supplying demand.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
We're talking with Kyle Schlatter, who is the mayor of Littleton. Well,
I'm going to get back in to some of the
policy and politics in a second, but I just want
to make sure I ask this to you. Do you
have an expectation of what will happen at this evening's vote?
Speaker 2 (07:11):
I mean, I think I.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Think the most likely expectations are either that it passes
or gets postponed.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
I think it's unlikely that it just fails. But do
you have a guess?
Speaker 3 (07:22):
I stopped predicting the future years ago. I got wrong,
So I don't have an expectation or assumption. You know,
I've heard some of the council members want to postpone it.
I've heard some that want to pass it. I've heard
that there's some amendments changes a little bit here, So
it's probably a good guest one of those.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Three will right.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Okay, So from your perspective as mayor, what would the
downside be of postponing the decision? And you know, I
want to just state for the record because I'm as
guilty of it as anybody that lots of times citizens
don't pay enough attention to what their city government is doing.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
And I don't mean that the city government is doing
something wrong.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
The city government is doing whatever the city government is doing,
and they're posting the notice here or there, and here's
the meeting and you can come, and nobody does until
suddenly there's something that gets people pissed off and then
they decide they're going to be mad and go, you know,
go do something. So it's entirely possible that that's what
happened here. But given that that seems to be happening
here on some scale, mister mayor, why not just postpone
(08:26):
it since it's becoming a much bigger, more public issue
and take more input.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Well, first of all, I just want to say I
want to thank all the people that have spoken up
and gotten involved. This is I mean city COMPLI left
to officials love to hear from constituents, to hear how
policy changes, policy decisions impact them, and that I think
it's great. I wish people had been involved for the
past year when we've been talking about this, so I
think it's really great to involve that now. I think
there's been a lot of work put in to this,
(08:56):
and you know, we're going to continue this discussion. This
isn't saying, Okay, are gonna, you know, wipe for hands.
If this passes tonight, we're done. We're not going to
do anything else. We're not gonna look at how we
can change things in the future. If it gets postponed,
We're not gonna we're going to continue talking. I mean,
if it failed, we're still going to keep talking about.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
How what's the downside of postponing? What why not postpone it?
Speaker 3 (09:20):
I mean, there is a we can the downsid has
continued to kick the can down the road and never
making a decision. So I think it's important that you know,
we have to make a decision at some point. Is
tonight tonight? Maybe maybe it's six weeks from now, is
it six months from now? I don't know.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
What about putting it on the ballot and letting the
voters decide again.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
That's a slippery slope of what, you know, it is
every decision that a city council needs to take go
on the ballot. I think that's why we have a
lot of officials. I mean, I get that how many
people said they opposed the ordinance that hadn't read the
ordinance and didn't understand it. And when I kind of
the dialogue with them can open their eyes and they
were I think, led to believe that it is something
(09:59):
that it isn't something that it really is.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
So I mean, I mean, it sounds like you're implying
in a way that part of your objection to putting
it on the ballot is you think a lot of
uninformed people would vote against it.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
No, I'm not saying about uninformed as just the process
of how ordinances and legislation gets don't everything.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
No, I look, I don't like legislating by ballot measure.
Every once in a while something comes up that is
such a big decision that it's at least worth considering.
And I'm sure other people are going to ask you
this question now.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
You you mentioned that part of the.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Reason this issue came up is because of what the
state did with ADUs accessory dwelling units. What about from
the from Littleton's perspective, what about doing one ordinance that
deals with ADUs, which probably relatively easy, and then a
second thing to deal with kind of changing the zoning
to allow duplex and multiplex kind of thing.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Yeah, it's definitely an option over the past year, when
we've had discussions with our community and staff, we thought
it was more efficient to move this way, and that's
why we've That's why we've done it this way.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
So much of the conversation, especially from the governor, about
all of these issues in Colorado, and it is almost everywhere,
at least along the Front Range, is about increasing the
supply of reasonably affordable housing. And just for listeners, I
want to make something clear. A lot of times you
hear the term affordable housing, You've used in two different ways.
(11:33):
One is for low income subsidized housing.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
That's not what we're talking about here.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
I mean the term affordable housing in a more normal
sort of sense, which is to say, housing that an
ordinary working couple could likely afford to buy a house
that is very difficult to find in the Denver metro
area these days. So it is how much of this plan, Kyle,
is an effort to help that.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
I mean it's an indirect result. I think it's increasing
the supply. I mean there's a lack of supply of
smaller units. Say, you know, you can look at town
homes and condos. The reason condos haven't been built that
people can't buy them is because of litigration reform, we
need to change some of that, and so as part
of the Metro Maris Talcus, I've been advocating for support
(12:23):
of that, and you know, when the governor proposed to thirteen,
I was an opposition of that because you know, I'm
a big believer in local control, letting the local community
figure out what's best. And we've had over a year
of discussion on this, and you know, some of the
discussion that we've heard is that we're changing on anyway
white and not making all the same. The limits and
(12:44):
requirements for each of our residential zoning areas are remaining
in place where they are still distinct and unique. We're
just tweaking a little bit to add a different type
of housing product that is currently not widely available and
letting people choose to do that on their property if
they so want, if they don't. We're not mandating anyone
(13:05):
tear down the house or build a duplex. You know,
if you know no duplexes get built, well, that's that's
letting the free market kind of decide that we want
our community to reflect the people that live here.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Now, any comments on something that one of the sabled Littleton.
People said on my show a couple hours ago about
at least some neighborhoods you wouldn't be able to add
density because of fire code.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
If a development is not allowed to go through because
of code requirements, I mean, there's the code there to
protect people, to let them know what they can and
can't do it. I mean, I don't think that we're
not going to go through parsonal By parcel and say, well,
this parsal you can build on, this one you can't.
It's it's easier if you set the code across the
zones and say this is one of the requirements. If
(13:54):
it doesn't work for a certain parcel or certain neighborhood,
it doesn't work. And that's why the code's there.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
A listener has a question I think sort of gets
to the heart at maybe what some of the people
who are opposed are concerned about. And I say that
with the caveat that, you know, maybe they don't understand.
You say that at least some people who are against
it don't understand the ordinance very well.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
But here's what this listener says.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
He says, I'm an investor and I would absolutely come
in and buy a house and turn it into a
triplex for rental purposes. What happens to Littleton when Blackrock
decides to do that on a very large scale.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
You know what people are going to do with their properties.
Right now, we have people that buy single family homes
and tournament to rentals, and so I think that's you know,
the free will to market there if someone wants to
do that. I think increasing the supply of housing is
a good thing for a community, and that's what we've
heard that our community wants.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Or are you open to the idea of some kind
of limit. You know, a neighborhood that is currently single
family home only will not be allowed to be more
than x percent by I don't know actual count of
houses or something, will not be more than x percent
multi family.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
That's something we can explore. It's not something I'm a
four against right now. I think that gets back into
then you know, the first in the door and then
you shut the door behind you, doesn't let people, you know, will.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
I know there's unintended consequences for everything. I'm just trying
to I'm trying to brainstorm ways that you know that
there might be a compromise to be had here, although
perhaps no compromise is necessary.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Maybe maybe the yes side has all the votes they.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Need and and I don't want to say they don't
care about the people who are against it, but they
are not convinced by the people who are against it,
and maybe maybe there isn't even a compromise necessary.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
And I will say that the reason we brought this
up because there is a contingent of people in our
community that want this, and we asked that to look
at this doesn't sense is what was health? The problem
of housing? And it's not as cut and dry as
a whole ground swell of people are against it. There's
a fair number of support.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
I'd be curious who those people are other than developers
who are in Littleton already. I mean, I can imagine
people who live in Denver and want to move to
Littleton and would like to move to a seven hundred
thousand dollars town home or whatever it's going to be.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
But I'm wondering who.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
The people are who are in Littleton now who are
in favor of this, other than developers or people who
hope that the city gets more property taxes over.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
There from that support, this tend to be younger tend
to live in smaller homes right now, be renters looking
to be able to buy. And it seems at least
the majority of the emails that I've received over the
past week come from two or maybe three neighborhoods that
are definitely the higher housing cost neighborhoods there. So there's
(17:00):
a bit of a I think it's kind of a
generational divide.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
I can. I can imagine that to a certain degree.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
This is one of those things that are the difficult
decisions that people get elected to to sort out. I
wish you well sorting it out. I think I hope
it gets postponed. But I don't live in Littleton anymore.
I used to, but I don't live there now, So
you know, I'm not going to vote on it, and
I'm not going to show up and express an opinion
because I don't live there. But I really appreciate your
(17:29):
taking the time to come join us on the show
and give the you know, a point of view that
my guests yesterday and today didn't give.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
And I appreciate that.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Kyle. Yeah, and I thank you for having me, and
I you know, I just want to tell all your
listeners to Get involved with your local government. All the
people in Littleton to have reached out recently. Stay involved.
Don't just come out when something that impacts just your
neighborhood or just your neighbor I think it's really important
we get more people involved.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Couldn't agree with you more, couldn't agree with you more.
Kyle Schlachter is Mayor of Littleton. Thanks so much for
your time, keep in touch.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
Thanks every day you too,
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