Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
All right, let's do something very different.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
I'm very pleased to welcome back to the show Christy
Burton Brown, who is vice president of Advanced Colorado, and
she's excellent on policy and I love having Christy on
the show talking about policy issues and Advanced Colorado, you
may recall, has been in the news a lot recently
because they were really the primary movers in getting the
recent property tax reduction compromise through the state legislature. They
(00:26):
pressured the Democrats so much with a ballot measure that
the Democrats had to give text really if they didn't
want to give, We're here to talk about something else,
which is currently known as Initiative one thirty eight, and
it is essentially a school choice ballot measure that will
be on the ballot.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
And before I bring Christy, and.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
I'm just going to read the whole thing to you
because it's very very short. Section one in the Constitution
of the State of Colorado ad Section eighteen to Article
nine as follows, Section eighteen Education school Choice. Sub Section
one purpose findings. The people of the State of Colorado
hereby find and declare that all children have the right
(01:05):
to equal opportunity to access equality education that parents have
the right to direct the education of their children, and
that school choice includes neighborhood, charter, private, and home schools,
open enrollment options, and future innovations in education, and Subsection two,
each K through twelve child has the right to school choice.
All right, Christy, can you please elaborate on whatever isn't
(01:29):
obvious about what we're trying to accomplish here.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Yeah, absolutely, Row, thanks for having me on and I
think the beauty in this initiative and it's now going
to be called Amendute eighty that's the official title for
the balance that it is so simple and it's clear
there's not a lot about this that people aren't going
to read and understand. It puts the right to choose
about school for your kids with parents, not with the government,
(01:53):
and it says, as a child here in Colorado, you
have the right to school choice. That right is exercise
to your parents. It includes every possible choice of school, charter, private,
home school, neighborhood school, wherever you want your kid, you
should be able to send them. The beauty of putting
this in the constitution and the reason we're doing it
is because we do have a legislature that wants to
(02:14):
eat away at the right to school choice we enjoyed
on a bipart of the basis in Colorado for decades.
So you want to stop those attacks and make sure
that that right to choose the best school of your
kid remained with parents.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
So as I think you know, I'm one hundred percent
supporter of school choice every day and in every way,
and many of our mutual friends are as well.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
And I have noted that some folks like.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
John Caldera of the Independence Institute had I wouldn't say
he really disliked this, but he had.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Some questions about what it does and doesn't do.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
And some people who are on our side of the
issue seem to think that maybe it's not very well
worded and create some entire contradictions and will lead to
lawsuits and so on. I'm sure you've heard all of it.
So what do you want to say to these folks?
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Sure, and Rock, I think one of the good things
about conservatives or libertarian leaning thinkers is that we actually think,
we evaluate things, and we often come up with our
own ideas, and so I think you have that. On
our side of the issue, in particular, people who love
to look at words and say ooh, they crafted like
just a little bit better, or what if we could
(03:28):
do you know, this bigger and better thing. I think
we also have to introduce some realism into that as conservatives, though,
and say, not what is the best thing you could
possibly go out there and get, get everything or get
nothing proposition, But instead let's go get what we can get.
And that's what we do in advanced Colorado. We base
the measures we run on pulling on research on what
(03:48):
we know that people across the political spectrum are going
to vote for and what they want to be in Colorado.
I'm still rooted in conservative principles, but it's also popular
and realistic and we can go past it. So that's
what you see here. And I will say, sure, I
think there's you know a few people who greats a
few concerns. I think their concerns are overblown, and we
have really great people, experienced lawyers like Chris Murray and
(04:11):
Troy i At, a former US attorney who's evaluated this measure,
who said it's solid, it's excellent, and it's going to
put the right kind of policy into Colorado law.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
What should I make of Well, I was going to say,
the fact. But I guess it's possible that I'm wrong
that some like Christian homeschool organizations and ACE and some
other educational choice groups have not decided to endorse this thing.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
Sure, I think when you talk about groups like A's,
who we've met with and talked to you to do
a lot of great work in the private school realm,
they're just they're neutral on they're just not taking a position.
I think you're going to see some organizations who need
to focus in on their own concerns, like they don't
get really politically involved, and so they kind of put
their heads down, stay in their lane and say, hey,
we're going to push private school scholarship. You know, I
(05:00):
admire the work they do in that realm, but I
don't really think that's a reflection on whether or not
this is a good policy idea. They don't do a
lot of policy when you look at check. I have
a homeschool grad, I have a homeschool mom, which you
could be more homeschool than me, and obviously, like I
deeply support this measure. I'm a constucial attorney myself. I
(05:20):
think sometimes people to homeschool world can zero in so
much on you know, very suspicious for government. And so
they say, hey, does this give the government any open
door whatsoever to regulate anything? I do. What we're looking
at is to two arguments against that. First of all,
you don't need to invite the government in to allow
(05:41):
them to regulate a certain kind of schooling. They can
do that tomorrow if they want to. And that's why
this initiative is so important because it says, actually, government,
we're going to block you off and say there's now
a right to homeschool in the Colorado Constitution and a
right for parents to direct that education. You can't get
more protective than that. So I think they're getting they're
(06:02):
letting a little bit of their typical suspicion of government
get in the way of what this amendment actually does,
which is, you know, a better thing for the homeschool movement,
charter school movement, private school movement, and traditional public school
than has been done in a very long time.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
All Right, I'm gonna play lawyer a little bit, which.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Is always dangerous when I'm talking to an actual lawyer
and I'm not one.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
But do you do you think.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
There's any And I just want you to, you know,
back away from your advocacy of this for a moment
and just think, as a lawyer, do you think there's
any possibility here that the provision that talks about children
have the right to an equal opportunity to access equality education,
could that end up somehow creating a conflict with the
(06:45):
next thing, that parents have the right to direct the education.
Do you think you'll end we could end up with
some wacky liberal interpretation that aims to give children some
kind of rights that you and I, as parents both
think they shouldn't have.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
You though, I don't ross And here's why I think
it's a valid question. Other people have raised it as well.
We had Troy Chris Murray evaluate it, and you know,
I guess one way to frame one of the lawyers
has said about it is that unfortunately a fairly uncerious
concerns not from you, of course, But the reason it's
(07:20):
unserious is it when you talk about constitutional rights, it's
not your rights as opposed to another individual, it's your
rights in relation to government. So this isn't saying, oh,
children have a right to school choice as opposed to
their parents, anymore than it's saying you have a right
to private schools. And so let's be force the church
down the street to open a private school. No right
like that exists and would exist under amendment. Instead of
(07:43):
saying you have a right to school choice as opposed
to the government. The government cannot come in and say
no more charged schools, no more private schools, no homeschooling.
So that's one of the foundational reason is this isn't
setting children's rights against parents rights. Is because those are
our rights in relation to government, not other people. And
then secondarily, it specifically set out the intention to say
(08:04):
parents have the right to direct the education of their
child straight up in this language. Colorado also have these
very long, long precedents of children exercising their rights through
their parents, not through themselves.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Okay, yeah, I mean I have seen some number of
people saying that this is going to create a lot
of lawsuits, which isn't necessarily the end of the world.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
It's not a reason to vote against it.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
I mean, I want the maximum amount of school choice,
and whatever is on the ballot that favors school choice,
I'm going to vote for it. I'm just sort of
like nitpicking with you a little bit about whether it
could be better, but in a way that ship is sailed, right,
it's going to be on the ballot in the form
in the form that it's in right now. And I
do also know that the president of the Colorado Education
(08:51):
Association is against this bill, which is a reason that
everybody should not just vote for it, but like if
you were from Chicago, you'd vote for it twice because
there's no organization. There's no organization that is legal and
still has some level of respect in society that is
so harmful as teachers' unions.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
They are the worst. And if they don't like this,
then that says good things about it, right.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
I totally agree with that. And they don't like it
because they think if parents get more options in education,
we will then people aren't going all like traditional public
schools as much. Well, that's said, there's a problem with
the system they're running. We want to encourage infati competition
makes the neighborhood public school better too. It also is
a valid choice, but they should go work to make
it better instead of complaining about schools that provide parents
(09:40):
with what they're looking for and rossters. To go back
to your lawsuit point, I agree with you. There could
be a lot of lawsuits after this passes. But you're
right to this also, are arguably a good state. I mean,
there've had so many lawsuits about our freedom of spage,
freedom of religion. That's what you get with constitutional provisions
that describe and recognize rights people have. It's yet people
go few over it to kind of outline their rights
(10:03):
and that the government has to stay true to it. Well,
actually think that's a good thing of how we preserve
our rights.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Yeah, very interesting.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
You know, I think the other challenge that this faces
is the same challenge that every constitutional amendment faces in Colorado,
and that is based on a change that happened some
years ago.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
It needs fifty five percent to pass.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
How do you feel about the chances of this passing
in a state that's full of leftist voters from California? Sure?
Speaker 3 (10:35):
Well, and let's talk about property facts.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Rock.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
You can never guarantee a ballot win. You always have
to say, hey, you know, we're gambling at the ballots, bockah.
Our voters say yes, their voter's going to say no.
But at against Colorado, we do back up our measures
with a lot of research, a lot of polling. We
don't bring them to the ballots if we don't think they're.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Going to win.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
So this poll well above the require fifty five percent.
Is it going to take a real thought, college funded
campaign to get the message to voters that this is
a basic common sense idea, keep your right to the
school choice in Colorado from a legislature that wants to
attack it. Sure, yes, if anyone listening and wants to contribute,
you would love that for this campaign. But install it
(11:15):
across the political spectrum Republicans who believe in in choice
in Colorado and apply that to education. So that's that's
I think where this is right now.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
All right, well, I hope you're right. We'll keep an
eye on it. I'm sure we'll talk with you about
it again before we actually get to the election. Remind
me of the official amendment number, as this will appear
on the.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Ballot, Amendment eighty. So yes on Amendment.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Eighty, Yes on Amendment eighty, says Christy Burton Bround, Vice
president of Advanced Colorado, the website Advanced Colorado dot org.
Thanks for your time, as always, Christy, appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Rock.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
All Right,
All right, let's do something very different.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
I'm very pleased to welcome back to the show Christy
Burton Brown, who is vice president of Advanced Colorado, and
she's excellent on policy and I love having Christy on
the show talking about policy issues and Advanced Colorado, you
may recall, has been in the news a lot recently
because they were really the primary movers in getting the
recent property tax reduction compromise through the state legislature. They
(00:26):
pressured the Democrats so much with a ballot measure that
the Democrats had to give text really if they didn't
want to give, We're here to talk about something else,
which is currently known as Initiative one thirty eight, and
it is essentially a school choice ballot measure that will
be on the ballot.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
And before I bring Christy, and.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
I'm just going to read the whole thing to you
because it's very very short. Section one in the Constitution
of the State of Colorado ad Section eighteen to Article
nine as follows, Section eighteen Education school Choice. Sub Section
one purpose findings. The people of the State of Colorado
hereby find and declare that all children have the right
(01:05):
to equal opportunity to access equality education that parents have
the right to direct the education of their children, and
that school choice includes neighborhood, charter, private, and home schools,
open enrollment options, and future innovations in education, and Subsection two,
each K through twelve child has the right to school choice.
All right, Christy, can you please elaborate on whatever isn't
(01:29):
obvious about what we're trying to accomplish here.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Yeah, absolutely, Row, thanks for having me on and I
think the beauty in this initiative and it's now going
to be called Amendute eighty that's the official title for
the balance that it is so simple and it's clear
there's not a lot about this that people aren't going
to read and understand. It puts the right to choose
about school for your kids with parents, not with the government,
(01:53):
and it says, as a child here in Colorado, you
have the right to school choice. That right is exercise
to your parents. It includes every possible choice of school, charter, private,
home school, neighborhood school, wherever you want your kid, you
should be able to send them. The beauty of putting
this in the constitution and the reason we're doing it
is because we do have a legislature that wants to
(02:14):
eat away at the right to school choice we enjoyed
on a bipart of the basis in Colorado for decades.
So you want to stop those attacks and make sure
that that right to choose the best school of your
kid remained with parents.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
So as I think you know, I'm one hundred percent
supporter of school choice every day and in every way,
and many of our mutual friends are as well.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
And I have noted that some folks like.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
John Caldera of the Independence Institute had I wouldn't say
he really disliked this, but he had.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Some questions about what it does and doesn't do.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
And some people who are on our side of the
issue seem to think that maybe it's not very well
worded and create some entire contradictions and will lead to
lawsuits and so on. I'm sure you've heard all of it.
So what do you want to say to these folks?
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Sure, and Rock, I think one of the good things
about conservatives or libertarian leaning thinkers is that we actually think,
we evaluate things, and we often come up with our
own ideas, and so I think you have that. On
our side of the issue, in particular, people who love
to look at words and say ooh, they crafted like
just a little bit better, or what if we could
(03:28):
do you know, this bigger and better thing. I think
we also have to introduce some realism into that as conservatives, though,
and say, not what is the best thing you could
possibly go out there and get, get everything or get
nothing proposition, But instead let's go get what we can get.
And that's what we do in advanced Colorado. We base
the measures we run on pulling on research on what
(03:48):
we know that people across the political spectrum are going
to vote for and what they want to be in Colorado.
I'm still rooted in conservative principles, but it's also popular
and realistic and we can go past it. So that's
what you see here. And I will say, sure, I
think there's you know a few people who greats a
few concerns. I think their concerns are overblown, and we
have really great people, experienced lawyers like Chris Murray and
(04:11):
Troy i At, a former US attorney who's evaluated this measure,
who said it's solid, it's excellent, and it's going to
put the right kind of policy into Colorado law.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
What should I make of Well, I was going to say,
the fact. But I guess it's possible that I'm wrong
that some like Christian homeschool organizations and ACE and some
other educational choice groups have not decided to endorse this thing.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
Sure, I think when you talk about groups like A's,
who we've met with and talked to you to do
a lot of great work in the private school realm,
they're just they're neutral on they're just not taking a position.
I think you're going to see some organizations who need
to focus in on their own concerns, like they don't
get really politically involved, and so they kind of put
their heads down, stay in their lane and say, hey,
we're going to push private school scholarship. You know, I
(05:00):
admire the work they do in that realm, but I
don't really think that's a reflection on whether or not
this is a good policy idea. They don't do a
lot of policy when you look at check. I have
a homeschool grad, I have a homeschool mom, which you
could be more homeschool than me, and obviously, like I
deeply support this measure. I'm a constucial attorney myself. I
(05:20):
think sometimes people to homeschool world can zero in so
much on you know, very suspicious for government. And so
they say, hey, does this give the government any open
door whatsoever to regulate anything? I do. What we're looking
at is to two arguments against that. First of all,
you don't need to invite the government in to allow
(05:41):
them to regulate a certain kind of schooling. They can
do that tomorrow if they want to. And that's why
this initiative is so important because it says, actually, government,
we're going to block you off and say there's now
a right to homeschool in the Colorado Constitution and a
right for parents to direct that education. You can't get
more protective than that. So I think they're getting they're
(06:02):
letting a little bit of their typical suspicion of government
get in the way of what this amendment actually does,
which is, you know, a better thing for the homeschool movement,
charter school movement, private school movement, and traditional public school
than has been done in a very long time.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
All Right, I'm gonna play lawyer a little bit, which.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Is always dangerous when I'm talking to an actual lawyer
and I'm not one.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
But do you do you think.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
There's any And I just want you to, you know,
back away from your advocacy of this for a moment
and just think, as a lawyer, do you think there's
any possibility here that the provision that talks about children
have the right to an equal opportunity to access equality education,
could that end up somehow creating a conflict with the
(06:45):
next thing, that parents have the right to direct the education.
Do you think you'll end we could end up with
some wacky liberal interpretation that aims to give children some
kind of rights that you and I, as parents both
think they shouldn't have.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
You though, I don't ross And here's why I think
it's a valid question. Other people have raised it as well.
We had Troy Chris Murray evaluate it, and you know,
I guess one way to frame one of the lawyers
has said about it is that unfortunately a fairly uncerious
concerns not from you, of course, But the reason it's
(07:20):
unserious is it when you talk about constitutional rights, it's
not your rights as opposed to another individual, it's your
rights in relation to government. So this isn't saying, oh,
children have a right to school choice as opposed to
their parents, anymore than it's saying you have a right
to private schools. And so let's be force the church
down the street to open a private school. No right
like that exists and would exist under amendment. Instead of
(07:43):
saying you have a right to school choice as opposed
to the government. The government cannot come in and say
no more charged schools, no more private schools, no homeschooling.
So that's one of the foundational reason is this isn't
setting children's rights against parents rights. Is because those are
our rights in relation to government, not other people. And
then secondarily, it specifically set out the intention to say
(08:04):
parents have the right to direct the education of their
child straight up in this language. Colorado also have these
very long, long precedents of children exercising their rights through
their parents, not through themselves.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Okay, yeah, I mean I have seen some number of
people saying that this is going to create a lot
of lawsuits, which isn't necessarily the end of the world.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
It's not a reason to vote against it.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
I mean, I want the maximum amount of school choice,
and whatever is on the ballot that favors school choice,
I'm going to vote for it. I'm just sort of
like nitpicking with you a little bit about whether it
could be better, but in a way that ship is sailed, right,
it's going to be on the ballot in the form
in the form that it's in right now. And I
do also know that the president of the Colorado Education
(08:51):
Association is against this bill, which is a reason that
everybody should not just vote for it, but like if
you were from Chicago, you'd vote for it twice because
there's no organization. There's no organization that is legal and
still has some level of respect in society that is
so harmful as teachers' unions.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
They are the worst. And if they don't like this,
then that says good things about it, right.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
I totally agree with that. And they don't like it
because they think if parents get more options in education,
we will then people aren't going all like traditional public
schools as much. Well, that's said, there's a problem with
the system they're running. We want to encourage infati competition
makes the neighborhood public school better too. It also is
a valid choice, but they should go work to make
it better instead of complaining about schools that provide parents
(09:40):
with what they're looking for and rossters. To go back
to your lawsuit point, I agree with you. There could
be a lot of lawsuits after this passes. But you're
right to this also, are arguably a good state. I mean,
there've had so many lawsuits about our freedom of spage,
freedom of religion. That's what you get with constitutional provisions
that describe and recognize rights people have. It's yet people
go few over it to kind of outline their rights
(10:03):
and that the government has to stay true to it. Well,
actually think that's a good thing of how we preserve
our rights.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Yeah, very interesting.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
You know, I think the other challenge that this faces
is the same challenge that every constitutional amendment faces in Colorado,
and that is based on a change that happened some
years ago.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
It needs fifty five percent to pass.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
How do you feel about the chances of this passing
in a state that's full of leftist voters from California? Sure?
Speaker 3 (10:35):
Well, and let's talk about property facts.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Rock.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
You can never guarantee a ballot win. You always have
to say, hey, you know, we're gambling at the ballots, bockah.
Our voters say yes, their voter's going to say no.
But at against Colorado, we do back up our measures
with a lot of research, a lot of polling. We
don't bring them to the ballots if we don't think they're.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Going to win.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
So this poll well above the require fifty five percent.
Is it going to take a real thought, college funded
campaign to get the message to voters that this is
a basic common sense idea, keep your right to the
school choice in Colorado from a legislature that wants to
attack it. Sure, yes, if anyone listening and wants to contribute,
you would love that for this campaign. But install it
(11:15):
across the political spectrum Republicans who believe in in choice
in Colorado and apply that to education. So that's that's
I think where this is right now.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
All right, well, I hope you're right. We'll keep an
eye on it. I'm sure we'll talk with you about
it again before we actually get to the election. Remind
me of the official amendment number, as this will appear
on the.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Ballot, Amendment eighty. So yes on Amendment.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Eighty, Yes on Amendment eighty, says Christy Burton Bround, Vice
president of Advanced Colorado, the website Advanced Colorado dot org.
Thanks for your time, as always, Christy, appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Rock.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
All Right,
The Ross Kaminsky Show News
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