September 7, 2023 • 19 mins
The first words out of Ben's mouth are: "It's only awkward if you make it awkward" after Amy shares that 1 of the 4 things she's thankful for (during '4 Things Gratitude') is her co-parenting relationship with Ben and being able to celebrate his birthday as a family because some may find it odd that they get along so well, or awkward that they would record a podcast together, but nothing about this is awkward and the only goal is to potentially help others in a similar situation. The purpose of today's episode is to let listeners know that they will be recording a co-parenting Q&A (with questions sent in by listeners) and an interview with a co-parenting expert, as Amy and Ben make it clear that they are NOT experts.
Email your questions to 4thingswithamybrown@gmail.com and put CO-PARENTING in the subject line.
OTHER THINGS DISCUSSED:
-Amy asked Ben to share some "wisdom" now that he's another year older
-Will they ever write a book together?
-Something their therapist had them do often to help with communication was: "what I heard you say was...." and they still use that to this day
-Ben told Amy that he might get a "green ring" (something single people that aren't on "dating apps" wear to indicate that they're open to meeting people/dating)
-Ben's LinkedIn (his only real social media presence) and its for his company (Tough Stump Technologies)
-& More!
P.S. Get your own 4 Things Gratitude Journal to help with a consistent gratitude practice & to support Haiti, as a 100% of proceeds go to education in Haiti.
HOST: Amy Brown // RadioAmy.com // @RadioAmy
GUEST: Ben Brown // ToughStump.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Cas up little food for yourself.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Oh it's pretty bad. Hey, it's pretty beautiful. Thing beautiful
that for a little more.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Said, he your kicking with full thing.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
With Amy Brown.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Happy Thursday, Amy here, and I'm going to start things
off today with four things gratitude. I'm gonna share with
you four things that I am currently thankful for. And
the first thing on my list is my co parenting
relationship with Ben. And Ben's actually sitting here next to
me so that we can share a future episode that
(00:53):
we're working on with you. We actually want some of
you to be a part of it. Second thing would
be my new Olive June nail polish. It's this bluish
grayish color that's perfect for fall, and I just painted
my nails this morning and I'm obsessed. The color is
called Favorite Beanie if you want to look for that
one or I feel like any gray, bluish color is
(01:13):
great right now for fall.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
Third thing would be I guess our dog Kara.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
She's laying up my feet right now, and she goes
to your house every other week, so I'm just glad
to have her back at my feet. I miss her
when she's gone. I mean, obviously I miss the kids too,
and that's why she goes to your house, is to
sleep with Stevenson every night. But I don't realize how
much of it's going to miss her. And then fourth thing,
I guess I'll go with the cheesecake that we just ate.
(01:40):
We did a belated birthday celebration for Ben's birthday, which
I think some people might think that's a little odd,
or they might think it's even awkward for us to
be sitting down to record a podcast. But I'm just
glad we're in a place where it's not awkward, and
I'm grateful for that too.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
It's only awkward if you make get awkward, right, mm hmm.
It took a lot of work. It was a lot, right.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
I would say this wasn't overnight how we interact. There
were really hard times and there's still maybe some ahead,
but I think we just have a better handle on
how to move about and how to not what's the
word overstep.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
It's taken a long time, you know, two years here
to get to a place where we can disagree without
it without a ten year resentment coming up.
Speaker 4 (02:26):
Yeah, it would go back to something from two thousand
and seven and.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
All of those like who's picking up the kids? It
had nothing to do with anything. It was just like,
who's picking up the kids? And like, oh yeah, you
remember when you know, we.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Needed to work through some stuff, so we didn't live
in the past and we lived here in the present
and not even living in the.
Speaker 4 (02:42):
Future, but future wise.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
It is important for us to figure this out because
of the kids.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
And I think that you did a really good job,
even you know, from the beginning of making it about
the kids, and I caught on a little bit later
that's the most important thing, like this is about the kids,
and then not letting our dialogue get outside of the
com of how do we best support our kids in
their journey that there each of them going through very
you know, they both have challenges you know from their
background that they're they're working through. So I think that
(03:09):
that's been the biggest thing for me, is just keeping
it on that focusing there.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Well, there are certain listeners that have asked about how
we co parent and.
Speaker 4 (03:18):
Ben and I are not experts. So here's the deal.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
We're We're going to bring in an expert and do
an episode, or I'll do an episode with or an interview.
But Ben and I'll also try to answer some questions
to the best of our ability, but we're prefacing it
with we don't know what we're doing, but we obviously
are both in a position now to where we've been
through something and we don't.
Speaker 4 (03:39):
Like to waste that sort of thing.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
So if we can be of help, great, we can
be encouragement, we can be a story of hope.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
And we spend a lot of money on counseling, like
we've been to every counselor for every type of thing,
just about it possible. And so if at any point
we can save somebody money, like hey, listen, this is
what I heard this person say, Like, whatever it is,
if can help out in that way, then I'm happy
to you.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
Still definitely should seek your own therapy if you can,
but you may not need the fifty different ones that
we had. Yeah, so we did have access to really
good care because of multiple scenarios that were happening at
one time. I think we got a crash course in challenges.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Like the cornerstone of all growth, Like you don't grow
if there's no challenges. And so when I've faced adversity
and we've got two options, you can kind of curl
up and quit, or you can dig in and try
to figure out how to grow from it. And it
just depends on the attitude you take toward And that's
attitude I've been trying to take, and I know that
you have been trying to take. But we did the work,
(04:41):
like you have to do the work. You can't say
I'm going to do the work or say like we did.
We took action, We saw people, we have mentors, we
read books, like all the things.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
At the end of the day, divorce is not ideal. No,
that's not what we want for anybody. I guess the
point of you even being on right now to set
up a co parenting episode that.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
Really is dedicated to that.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
What I was thinking was that listeners could send in
questions that they may have for us that either we
can answer but also the expert, but we can share
our perspective. Like you said, we have had multiple types
of therapy. We're not telling you what to do or
like that we know what's best, but we're sharing like, hey,
(05:25):
this is what we did. It worked for us. Maybe
give it a try. We have no idea if it
will be what is best for you. You have got
to figure that out because I mean, I mean there's
times we've literally had to walk away from each other leave,
I can't talk to you right now.
Speaker 4 (05:40):
This is too hard.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
It was so difficult, and there were tears, there was anger,
there was frustration, but we were processing our own emotions.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
There's nobody that can be more inconsiderate than your ex
because you know everything about that other person, like I
know your buttons. If I was agitated and I wanted
you to do feel it too, like I knew how
to get you to feel that an fair advantage like
in a fight. So there's it was definitely definitely not
easy and definitely something that that's taken us a long
time to get to this place. And I think for me,
(06:10):
acceptance was the biggest thing. Once Once I got to acceptance,
like this is where it's at, this is what today
looks like, this is what our future looks like. Then
I stopped, you know, being agitated or annoyed about what
has or hadn't happened, whatever the case may be. You know,
And so I think that don't get divorced, but if
you do, think about the kids.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
But the kids first, right, Some people that don't have
kids too.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Okay, they probably have dogs.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
When I was in divorce court out like sitting there,
the people that went before me, they were settling their
affairs and one of them had to do with the
dogs the animals. So it was a big thing, and
the judge even applauded them and said, hey, I just
want to thank you. A lot of people don't take
into consideration like where the animals are going to go,
who's going to pay for the animals?
Speaker 2 (06:51):
What if animal get sick? Do they share it fifty
to fifty like.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Happened right before my eyes. I thought, well, judge was
all over that one. He was pretty excited about that.
So hey, man, that's something we can pass on. Listen,
you don't have kids and you're getting divorced, think about
the animals.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
So you can send emails into four Things with Amy
Brown at gmail dot com and in the subject line
you can put co parenting question something like that, or
question for the expert. Since we're going to bring one on.
I've already reached out to one that has specifically already
agreed to do an interview, but we just don't have
the date, and so we just want to gather the questions.
(07:25):
Get with the expert, and Ben and I get all
of our thoughts and feelings and ducks in a row
on it, so that way we can be a best service.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Everybody's situation is different, so if anything resonates like through this,
you know what we're saying in our experience, and I
hope that helps somebody. You know, everybody's going to have
a different story with one's not listening, one's not willing
to go to counseling yep, and one is or both
of them are going to counseling, but you know they
can't agree on the counselor whatever the case may be.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
There's going to be a difference.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
But hopefully in some of the things that you all
bring up and ask us, that we'll be able to
share our experience and if it all helps you, that's
the goal of this, and also to maintain our amicable relationship.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
That's my goal too.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
We also got to put that priority here than us
doing this, that we maintain our amicability. You don't start
throwing mics at me or anything.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Amicability that's hard to say. So you are not someone
that has come on the podcast much or is public
really at all for that matter. So I am thankful
that you're willing to.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Well, I'm pretty public on LinkedIn.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
You racking up endorsements over there.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Oh yeah, I mean I don't. I don't really know
though at all.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
I just know that we're trying to just as you know,
grow grow the business, grow the company, and so we've
definitely take in more of an outward facing look for
the company. And so bottom line is, I'm not in
social media stuff.
Speaker 4 (08:41):
Well, you just turned forty six.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
What advice you have for people, no matter what stage
in life they're at or what situation they're in.
Speaker 4 (08:49):
But what would you say as a forty six year old?
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Elexit acting like you're approaching this like I'm some like
so elderly now that I'm forty six, that I now
that I've I've gone from forty five to forty six,
I now have some newfound wisdom.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
Well, you're now you cross the line to late forties,
mid mid to late I'm still mid. I'm early to mid.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
I didn't get carried away over there. How far off
are you?
Speaker 3 (09:11):
I'm not very far off. I actually was not trying
to present you as elderly. I was trying to present
you as another year older, another year wiser.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
I love forties. I love forties. I can't wait. I
think fifties are going to be great TVD.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
But I think for me, I'm really thankful that I
have my health, like I really am.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
I mean, I'm very blessed on that.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
And I think that the older I get, the more
experiences I have, the less I actually feel like I know.
Whereas when I was a teenager and in my twenties,
I feel like I knew everything, and now I feel
like I know a lot less. I've experienced a lot more,
but I know a lot less, if that makes sense.
So now I've just I'm enjoying, like being in the moment.
I'm enjoying getting out there and doing new things that
(09:54):
I haven't done in a long time.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
And yeah, it's exciting.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
Like when you said be in the moment, it reminded
me of sort of how we approach a lot of
this is one day at a time. Everything is one
day at a time, and even in the days that
we have the hard days, we try to encourage each
other that everything's happening exactly.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
I think it's exactly the way it's supposed to be, right,
So you don't know how it's without the lows.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
I think that the tools that we've gained will take
with us into our elderly years, and we'll be better
better for it, even though we don't know much. We're
now in.
Speaker 4 (10:29):
Our second half of life. We're in act two.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Grandpa Brown lived till ninety seven, so I'm not even
halfway through this thing.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
So he had four acts.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
He was in Act four, but a lot of people,
I mean, my mom made it to act late act two,
early act three. My dad was late act three. I
feel like we've got I've probably got three acts in me.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
You're really defined in this whole thing out. This is
kind of morbid, don't what happened to living in the moment?
Speaker 4 (10:52):
Oh yeah, let's go back to stay day at a time.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
I'm already talking about me ninety seven years old and
my act five or whatever.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
I don't even know what these acts are based up.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
I just have.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
Always heard that, I mean, the first half of your
life and then your second you've heard that part, right,
But there's first act, second act, like in a.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
Play, like you're like you are the main character? Do
you know that?
Speaker 3 (11:11):
Saying that's all the young people say, you're the main character?
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Now they do. Where do they say this and I
see it on on Instagram?
Speaker 4 (11:19):
Yeah, probably so I take it.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
They don't post about being the main character on LinkedIn
or what not.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
The people that I follow.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
No, well, we can be the main characters in our
own stories. Which speaking of stories, someone asked if we'd
ever write a book together, and I definitely do not
see that happening at all.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
I got a boundary. I'm putting a boundary around that one,
like right now.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
Yeah, same, And if you think about it, each chapter
would need to be like three versions. You're our therapist, Tom.
He always made it clear that there's your version, my version,
and then the truth the truth because we have different filters.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Literally, we had those same conversations. We had Tom telling
us like, hey, like she's seen it this way, you're
seeing it this way, this is this somewhere in between
is what happened?
Speaker 3 (12:08):
And what I hear you saying is that's not correct.
Oh what I heard you say was that's it.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Yeah, what I heard you say was and then you
say it, and then I say.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
I guess you say something.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
We'll practice that hat is way too big for your head.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
What I heard you say was that my hat is
way too big for my head.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
That's correct, though, that's pretty big.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
I like it. Is it not cute? I thought it
was cute?
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Is it not?
Speaker 2 (12:33):
Amy, I'm not.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
You put me on the spot to say something that
was not tied to anything else, and you have a
massive hat right on here, so.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
You think the hat's too big.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
I'm just saying it's a trucker hat. It's a trucker
for a very large trucker.
Speaker 4 (12:44):
So what I heard you say was I needed not
wear this hat.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
No, see, because then that's you projected. No, I just said,
literally said, was the hat you have your big hat on?
Speaker 4 (12:52):
I was giving an example of what not to do.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
I know, that's it, okay, So then Tom, then we say, no,
you correct, that's not what you said.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
I said you have a big hat on. Didn't say
anything to do with you.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
So really I would say what I heard you say
was I have on a.
Speaker 4 (13:06):
Really big hat.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
That's correct.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
That's a perfect example of if I hadn't repeated that
back and you were just stating a fact, it would
be oh my gosh, he thinks I look ridiculous in
this hat and I need to never wear it again.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
But that's not what you said. No, but that's how
we take it.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
That's the example right now where you could insert literally
anything that you take the wrong way.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Well, and the portant pint is to say like that
we did the work.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
And some of that stuff sounds super cheesy, like I
would never do that. Why would I sit there two
grown adults sitting there and having a conversation about the
size of your hat and really clarifying that. But those
are the things that I learned in a relationship are
massive miscommunications that get turned and snowball into into way
way more. I think part of my journey and going
(13:49):
through this was like, dude, I'm going to do everything
I can to get better at my next relationship.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
I'm a part of that.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
And so if I'm not trying to get better and
become better at relationships and people connection, that I'm going
to carry that same thing into the next marriage, which
I think is why it's just a.
Speaker 4 (14:04):
To get married again.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Yeah, but at some point.
Speaker 4 (14:08):
Yes, Okay, so what I heard you say is you
get married again.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
I don't know. Listen, I'm not even dating right now.
You have I have.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Okay, I'm thinking about getting this ring.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Have you heard about the green ring.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
What's that?
Speaker 1 (14:24):
There's a buddy mine was telling me about it. So
if you're not on the apps and you want, like
there's a there's this a green ring that you can
get and it says I'm single and ready to mingle.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
What Yeah, but.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
It says but I'm not on the apps. It's like,
I don't do apps. But I don't know why I
said single ready to mingle.
Speaker 4 (14:42):
It doesn't say that, or it does. Was it just
I'm sing?
Speaker 2 (14:48):
No.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
My friend looked it up yesterday and said that she
saw an article and it said single ready to mingle.
And my buddy when he told me, he actually bought one,
and he told me he's not on apps either, and
he told.
Speaker 4 (14:58):
Me he sa the dating apps.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
What else do I mean?
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Well, I'm just clarifying, Oh yeah, the dating apps, Like
I'm not doing a dating app thing.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Okay, So your friend got the ring? Yeah, and is
he wearing it? What finger do you wear it on?
Speaker 2 (15:12):
I haven't followed back up with him.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
He said he thought it was like a joke and
so he wasn't sure if he's gonna wear it or not.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
We're definitely going to have to keep us posted on
that especially if you end up getting a green ring
for your dating life. I'm gonna have to look that up.
But I'm just glad that we can talk about this
kind of stuff. And I'm glad that you came over
today to celebrate your birthday with the kids. And of course,
just to clarify for people, I mean, you came here
because it was my weekend with the kids, and we
(15:40):
didn't want to throw off their schedules just because it
was your birthday. And that's probably because we're still new
to the schedules and we're really trying to get used
to it all.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
I was kind of resistant at the beginning to go
coming over and doing like a birthday of any sort.
And I was like, no, it's a good thing to show, like, hey,
we we celebrate each other.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
This is what we do when it's someone's birthday that
we love in our family.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Yeah. No, it was good. It was a good point.
I'm glad you did it. And I got a cool hat.
Speaker 4 (16:09):
Yeah, because nothing was done for my birthday, but that's fine.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
Oh no, we talked about it. No, No, don't who
who it's back the truck up.
Speaker 4 (16:18):
Wait what I'm hearing you say is what you.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Have read on this, So there's your story in my story,
and somewhere in the middle is probably.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
You should readdress it though, because I don't. I know
that I was in Austin for a funeral.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Yes, and Stevenson went with you.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
He did, and I had asked you, like, hey, can
we do something and I'm going to get the kids
to do something, and you said no, no, no, like
because there was a lot I think going on with
the funeral, you did not want anything to do with
the birthday. I did ask you the question. I didn't
ask you three times, I didn't follow up more than once,
but I did ask you. I was like, hey, do
you want to do anything when you get back because
(16:53):
you were out of time. You came back like on
a Sunday evening and we're jumping right back into work,
and so I mentioned it once.
Speaker 4 (16:59):
Yeah, it's weird.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
I don't remember that part, but if it's if there's
a lot going on emotionally, that's always something to keep
in mind. Is just bits and pieces of conversations that
you may not Your brain can only retain so much
information at times. And I'm glad you talked through that
because I didn't remember saying that, but now knowing I
can hear what you're saying and agree that you are
(17:22):
probably totally right, because I think I had a lot
going on emotionally, and you and I we were still
in the thick of it, Like I don't think everything
was final yet.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Maybe no, we weren't. We weren't signed.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
We hadn't we hadn't even I mean the signs if
you're going through doors, you know that getting to the
final sigature is like takes a while. But we hadn't
even like agreed on the draft. I think there was
some stuff that we were going back and forth on,
just trying to get things everybody, to make sure everybody
understood what was going on. And uh, there was that
that was going on. It was spring break, there was
something else. I do feel bad that now, especially after
(17:54):
eating my cheesecake today and enjoying that that, I like,
I do feel bad because I was, like, it is
a really good thing to hear, like, hey, we respect mom,
like and as I feel like you're doing it's like
we respect dad. It's Dad's birthday. We do stuff for Dad.
And doesn't me mean you will always do it like this?
But you know, until I get my green ring, like.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
Yeah, well, obviously, I mean, we weren't a couple at
the time. But if you are a couple and you're
listening to this, you know, when a woman says, ye,
I don't do anything for my birthday, it's fine.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
Doesn't that mean you're supposed to?
Speaker 3 (18:24):
But then also as women, we need to say what
mean to me what we say, and if we want
a little something for a birthday, then just say.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
It, especially if you're going through a divorce.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Like I'm going to hear that, I'm gonna go, Okay,
I'm not doing any I'm not gonna go Oh, what
she really means is I need to do something for
even though we're getting divorced, right, are you crazy?
Speaker 3 (18:47):
I know, But I'm encouraging women especially I think at times,
for whatever reason, we do that. And that's just one
example of sometimes how we show up of just trying
to not be not make anything a bit dealer, wanting
it to just sort of happen without us having to
say anything. And so then we casually say something like that,
(19:08):
and then we get sad when nothing happens when we
shouldn't because we didn't say what we meant. All right, Ben,
thanks for joining and Ben, we'll be back for the
Q and A co parenting Q and A with an.
Speaker 4 (19:22):
Expert because we're not experts. That's our tagline.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
This seems really long.
Speaker 4 (19:25):
Yeah, we'll work it.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Seems long.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
We've got some fine tuning to do. Can you post
about the episode on LinkedIn? No?
Speaker 4 (19:35):
Okay, bye bye
Cas up little food for yourself.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Oh it's pretty bad. Hey, it's pretty beautiful. Thing beautiful
that for a little more.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Said, he your kicking with full thing.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
With Amy Brown.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Happy Thursday, Amy here, and I'm going to start things
off today with four things gratitude. I'm gonna share with
you four things that I am currently thankful for. And
the first thing on my list is my co parenting
relationship with Ben. And Ben's actually sitting here next to
me so that we can share a future episode that
(00:53):
we're working on with you. We actually want some of
you to be a part of it. Second thing would
be my new Olive June nail polish. It's this bluish
grayish color that's perfect for fall, and I just painted
my nails this morning and I'm obsessed. The color is
called Favorite Beanie if you want to look for that
one or I feel like any gray, bluish color is
(01:13):
great right now for fall.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
Third thing would be I guess our dog Kara.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
She's laying up my feet right now, and she goes
to your house every other week, so I'm just glad
to have her back at my feet. I miss her
when she's gone. I mean, obviously I miss the kids too,
and that's why she goes to your house, is to
sleep with Stevenson every night. But I don't realize how
much of it's going to miss her. And then fourth thing,
I guess I'll go with the cheesecake that we just ate.
(01:40):
We did a belated birthday celebration for Ben's birthday, which
I think some people might think that's a little odd,
or they might think it's even awkward for us to
be sitting down to record a podcast. But I'm just
glad we're in a place where it's not awkward, and
I'm grateful for that too.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
It's only awkward if you make get awkward, right, mm hmm.
It took a lot of work. It was a lot, right.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
I would say this wasn't overnight how we interact. There
were really hard times and there's still maybe some ahead,
but I think we just have a better handle on
how to move about and how to not what's the
word overstep.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
It's taken a long time, you know, two years here
to get to a place where we can disagree without
it without a ten year resentment coming up.
Speaker 4 (02:26):
Yeah, it would go back to something from two thousand
and seven and.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
All of those like who's picking up the kids? It
had nothing to do with anything. It was just like,
who's picking up the kids? And like, oh yeah, you
remember when you know, we.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Needed to work through some stuff, so we didn't live
in the past and we lived here in the present
and not even living in the.
Speaker 4 (02:42):
Future, but future wise.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
It is important for us to figure this out because
of the kids.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
And I think that you did a really good job,
even you know, from the beginning of making it about
the kids, and I caught on a little bit later
that's the most important thing, like this is about the kids,
and then not letting our dialogue get outside of the
com of how do we best support our kids in
their journey that there each of them going through very
you know, they both have challenges you know from their
background that they're they're working through. So I think that
(03:09):
that's been the biggest thing for me, is just keeping
it on that focusing there.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Well, there are certain listeners that have asked about how
we co parent and.
Speaker 4 (03:18):
Ben and I are not experts. So here's the deal.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
We're We're going to bring in an expert and do
an episode, or I'll do an episode with or an interview.
But Ben and I'll also try to answer some questions
to the best of our ability, but we're prefacing it
with we don't know what we're doing, but we obviously
are both in a position now to where we've been
through something and we don't.
Speaker 4 (03:39):
Like to waste that sort of thing.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
So if we can be of help, great, we can
be encouragement, we can be a story of hope.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
And we spend a lot of money on counseling, like
we've been to every counselor for every type of thing,
just about it possible. And so if at any point
we can save somebody money, like hey, listen, this is
what I heard this person say, Like, whatever it is,
if can help out in that way, then I'm happy
to you.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
Still definitely should seek your own therapy if you can,
but you may not need the fifty different ones that
we had. Yeah, so we did have access to really
good care because of multiple scenarios that were happening at
one time. I think we got a crash course in challenges.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Like the cornerstone of all growth, Like you don't grow
if there's no challenges. And so when I've faced adversity
and we've got two options, you can kind of curl
up and quit, or you can dig in and try
to figure out how to grow from it. And it
just depends on the attitude you take toward And that's
attitude I've been trying to take, and I know that
you have been trying to take. But we did the work,
(04:41):
like you have to do the work. You can't say
I'm going to do the work or say like we did.
We took action, We saw people, we have mentors, we
read books, like all the things.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
At the end of the day, divorce is not ideal. No,
that's not what we want for anybody. I guess the
point of you even being on right now to set
up a co parenting episode that.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
Really is dedicated to that.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
What I was thinking was that listeners could send in
questions that they may have for us that either we
can answer but also the expert, but we can share
our perspective. Like you said, we have had multiple types
of therapy. We're not telling you what to do or
like that we know what's best, but we're sharing like, hey,
(05:25):
this is what we did. It worked for us. Maybe
give it a try. We have no idea if it
will be what is best for you. You have got
to figure that out because I mean, I mean there's
times we've literally had to walk away from each other leave,
I can't talk to you right now.
Speaker 4 (05:40):
This is too hard.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
It was so difficult, and there were tears, there was anger,
there was frustration, but we were processing our own emotions.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
There's nobody that can be more inconsiderate than your ex
because you know everything about that other person, like I
know your buttons. If I was agitated and I wanted
you to do feel it too, like I knew how
to get you to feel that an fair advantage like
in a fight. So there's it was definitely definitely not
easy and definitely something that that's taken us a long
time to get to this place. And I think for me,
(06:10):
acceptance was the biggest thing. Once Once I got to acceptance,
like this is where it's at, this is what today
looks like, this is what our future looks like. Then
I stopped, you know, being agitated or annoyed about what
has or hadn't happened, whatever the case may be. You know,
And so I think that don't get divorced, but if
you do, think about the kids.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
But the kids first, right, Some people that don't have
kids too.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Okay, they probably have dogs.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
When I was in divorce court out like sitting there,
the people that went before me, they were settling their
affairs and one of them had to do with the
dogs the animals. So it was a big thing, and
the judge even applauded them and said, hey, I just
want to thank you. A lot of people don't take
into consideration like where the animals are going to go,
who's going to pay for the animals?
Speaker 2 (06:51):
What if animal get sick? Do they share it fifty
to fifty like.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Happened right before my eyes. I thought, well, judge was
all over that one. He was pretty excited about that.
So hey, man, that's something we can pass on. Listen,
you don't have kids and you're getting divorced, think about
the animals.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
So you can send emails into four Things with Amy
Brown at gmail dot com and in the subject line
you can put co parenting question something like that, or
question for the expert. Since we're going to bring one on.
I've already reached out to one that has specifically already
agreed to do an interview, but we just don't have
the date, and so we just want to gather the questions.
(07:25):
Get with the expert, and Ben and I get all
of our thoughts and feelings and ducks in a row
on it, so that way we can be a best service.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Everybody's situation is different, so if anything resonates like through this,
you know what we're saying in our experience, and I
hope that helps somebody. You know, everybody's going to have
a different story with one's not listening, one's not willing
to go to counseling yep, and one is or both
of them are going to counseling, but you know they
can't agree on the counselor whatever the case may be.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
There's going to be a difference.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
But hopefully in some of the things that you all
bring up and ask us, that we'll be able to
share our experience and if it all helps you, that's
the goal of this, and also to maintain our amicable relationship.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
That's my goal too.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
We also got to put that priority here than us
doing this, that we maintain our amicability. You don't start
throwing mics at me or anything.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Amicability that's hard to say. So you are not someone
that has come on the podcast much or is public
really at all for that matter. So I am thankful
that you're willing to.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Well, I'm pretty public on LinkedIn.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
You racking up endorsements over there.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Oh yeah, I mean I don't. I don't really know
though at all.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
I just know that we're trying to just as you know,
grow grow the business, grow the company, and so we've
definitely take in more of an outward facing look for
the company. And so bottom line is, I'm not in
social media stuff.
Speaker 4 (08:41):
Well, you just turned forty six.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
What advice you have for people, no matter what stage
in life they're at or what situation they're in.
Speaker 4 (08:49):
But what would you say as a forty six year old?
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Elexit acting like you're approaching this like I'm some like
so elderly now that I'm forty six, that I now
that I've I've gone from forty five to forty six,
I now have some newfound wisdom.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
Well, you're now you cross the line to late forties,
mid mid to late I'm still mid. I'm early to mid.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
I didn't get carried away over there. How far off
are you?
Speaker 3 (09:11):
I'm not very far off. I actually was not trying
to present you as elderly. I was trying to present
you as another year older, another year wiser.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
I love forties. I love forties. I can't wait. I
think fifties are going to be great TVD.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
But I think for me, I'm really thankful that I
have my health, like I really am.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
I mean, I'm very blessed on that.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
And I think that the older I get, the more
experiences I have, the less I actually feel like I know.
Whereas when I was a teenager and in my twenties,
I feel like I knew everything, and now I feel
like I know a lot less. I've experienced a lot more,
but I know a lot less, if that makes sense.
So now I've just I'm enjoying, like being in the moment.
I'm enjoying getting out there and doing new things that
(09:54):
I haven't done in a long time.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
And yeah, it's exciting.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
Like when you said be in the moment, it reminded
me of sort of how we approach a lot of
this is one day at a time. Everything is one
day at a time, and even in the days that
we have the hard days, we try to encourage each
other that everything's happening exactly.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
I think it's exactly the way it's supposed to be, right,
So you don't know how it's without the lows.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
I think that the tools that we've gained will take
with us into our elderly years, and we'll be better
better for it, even though we don't know much. We're
now in.
Speaker 4 (10:29):
Our second half of life. We're in act two.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Grandpa Brown lived till ninety seven, so I'm not even
halfway through this thing.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
So he had four acts.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
He was in Act four, but a lot of people,
I mean, my mom made it to act late act two,
early act three. My dad was late act three. I
feel like we've got I've probably got three acts in me.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
You're really defined in this whole thing out. This is
kind of morbid, don't what happened to living in the moment?
Speaker 4 (10:52):
Oh yeah, let's go back to stay day at a time.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
I'm already talking about me ninety seven years old and
my act five or whatever.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
I don't even know what these acts are based up.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
I just have.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
Always heard that, I mean, the first half of your
life and then your second you've heard that part, right,
But there's first act, second act, like in a.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
Play, like you're like you are the main character? Do
you know that?
Speaker 3 (11:11):
Saying that's all the young people say, you're the main character?
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Now they do. Where do they say this and I
see it on on Instagram?
Speaker 4 (11:19):
Yeah, probably so I take it.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
They don't post about being the main character on LinkedIn
or what not.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
The people that I follow.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
No, well, we can be the main characters in our
own stories. Which speaking of stories, someone asked if we'd
ever write a book together, and I definitely do not
see that happening at all.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
I got a boundary. I'm putting a boundary around that one,
like right now.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
Yeah, same, And if you think about it, each chapter
would need to be like three versions. You're our therapist, Tom.
He always made it clear that there's your version, my version,
and then the truth the truth because we have different filters.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Literally, we had those same conversations. We had Tom telling
us like, hey, like she's seen it this way, you're
seeing it this way, this is this somewhere in between
is what happened?
Speaker 3 (12:08):
And what I hear you saying is that's not correct.
Oh what I heard you say was that's it.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Yeah, what I heard you say was and then you
say it, and then I say.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
I guess you say something.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
We'll practice that hat is way too big for your head.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
What I heard you say was that my hat is
way too big for my head.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
That's correct, though, that's pretty big.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
I like it. Is it not cute? I thought it
was cute?
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Is it not?
Speaker 2 (12:33):
Amy, I'm not.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
You put me on the spot to say something that
was not tied to anything else, and you have a
massive hat right on here, so.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
You think the hat's too big.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
I'm just saying it's a trucker hat. It's a trucker
for a very large trucker.
Speaker 4 (12:44):
So what I heard you say was I needed not
wear this hat.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
No, see, because then that's you projected. No, I just said,
literally said, was the hat you have your big hat on?
Speaker 4 (12:52):
I was giving an example of what not to do.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
I know, that's it, okay, So then Tom, then we say, no,
you correct, that's not what you said.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
I said you have a big hat on. Didn't say
anything to do with you.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
So really I would say what I heard you say
was I have on a.
Speaker 4 (13:06):
Really big hat.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
That's correct.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
That's a perfect example of if I hadn't repeated that
back and you were just stating a fact, it would
be oh my gosh, he thinks I look ridiculous in
this hat and I need to never wear it again.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
But that's not what you said. No, but that's how
we take it.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
That's the example right now where you could insert literally
anything that you take the wrong way.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Well, and the portant pint is to say like that
we did the work.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
And some of that stuff sounds super cheesy, like I
would never do that. Why would I sit there two
grown adults sitting there and having a conversation about the
size of your hat and really clarifying that. But those
are the things that I learned in a relationship are
massive miscommunications that get turned and snowball into into way
way more. I think part of my journey and going
(13:49):
through this was like, dude, I'm going to do everything
I can to get better at my next relationship.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
I'm a part of that.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
And so if I'm not trying to get better and
become better at relationships and people connection, that I'm going
to carry that same thing into the next marriage, which
I think is why it's just a.
Speaker 4 (14:04):
To get married again.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Yeah, but at some point.
Speaker 4 (14:08):
Yes, Okay, so what I heard you say is you
get married again.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
I don't know. Listen, I'm not even dating right now.
You have I have.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Okay, I'm thinking about getting this ring.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Have you heard about the green ring.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
What's that?
Speaker 1 (14:24):
There's a buddy mine was telling me about it. So
if you're not on the apps and you want, like
there's a there's this a green ring that you can
get and it says I'm single and ready to mingle.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
What Yeah, but.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
It says but I'm not on the apps. It's like,
I don't do apps. But I don't know why I
said single ready to mingle.
Speaker 4 (14:42):
It doesn't say that, or it does. Was it just
I'm sing?
Speaker 2 (14:48):
No.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
My friend looked it up yesterday and said that she
saw an article and it said single ready to mingle.
And my buddy when he told me, he actually bought one,
and he told me he's not on apps either, and
he told.
Speaker 4 (14:58):
Me he sa the dating apps.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
What else do I mean?
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Well, I'm just clarifying, Oh yeah, the dating apps, Like
I'm not doing a dating app thing.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Okay, So your friend got the ring? Yeah, and is
he wearing it? What finger do you wear it on?
Speaker 2 (15:12):
I haven't followed back up with him.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
He said he thought it was like a joke and
so he wasn't sure if he's gonna wear it or not.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
We're definitely going to have to keep us posted on
that especially if you end up getting a green ring
for your dating life. I'm gonna have to look that up.
But I'm just glad that we can talk about this
kind of stuff. And I'm glad that you came over
today to celebrate your birthday with the kids. And of course,
just to clarify for people, I mean, you came here
because it was my weekend with the kids, and we
(15:40):
didn't want to throw off their schedules just because it
was your birthday. And that's probably because we're still new
to the schedules and we're really trying to get used
to it all.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
I was kind of resistant at the beginning to go
coming over and doing like a birthday of any sort.
And I was like, no, it's a good thing to show, like, hey,
we we celebrate each other.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
This is what we do when it's someone's birthday that
we love in our family.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Yeah. No, it was good. It was a good point.
I'm glad you did it. And I got a cool hat.
Speaker 4 (16:09):
Yeah, because nothing was done for my birthday, but that's fine.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
Oh no, we talked about it. No, No, don't who
who it's back the truck up.
Speaker 4 (16:18):
Wait what I'm hearing you say is what you.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Have read on this, So there's your story in my story,
and somewhere in the middle is probably.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
You should readdress it though, because I don't. I know
that I was in Austin for a funeral.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Yes, and Stevenson went with you.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
He did, and I had asked you, like, hey, can
we do something and I'm going to get the kids
to do something, and you said no, no, no, like
because there was a lot I think going on with
the funeral, you did not want anything to do with
the birthday. I did ask you the question. I didn't
ask you three times, I didn't follow up more than once,
but I did ask you. I was like, hey, do
you want to do anything when you get back because
(16:53):
you were out of time. You came back like on
a Sunday evening and we're jumping right back into work,
and so I mentioned it once.
Speaker 4 (16:59):
Yeah, it's weird.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
I don't remember that part, but if it's if there's
a lot going on emotionally, that's always something to keep
in mind. Is just bits and pieces of conversations that
you may not Your brain can only retain so much
information at times. And I'm glad you talked through that
because I didn't remember saying that, but now knowing I
can hear what you're saying and agree that you are
(17:22):
probably totally right, because I think I had a lot
going on emotionally, and you and I we were still
in the thick of it, Like I don't think everything
was final yet.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Maybe no, we weren't. We weren't signed.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
We hadn't we hadn't even I mean the signs if
you're going through doors, you know that getting to the
final sigature is like takes a while. But we hadn't
even like agreed on the draft. I think there was
some stuff that we were going back and forth on,
just trying to get things everybody, to make sure everybody
understood what was going on. And uh, there was that
that was going on. It was spring break, there was
something else. I do feel bad that now, especially after
(17:54):
eating my cheesecake today and enjoying that that, I like,
I do feel bad because I was, like, it is
a really good thing to hear, like, hey, we respect mom,
like and as I feel like you're doing it's like
we respect dad. It's Dad's birthday. We do stuff for Dad.
And doesn't me mean you will always do it like this?
But you know, until I get my green ring, like.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
Yeah, well, obviously, I mean, we weren't a couple at
the time. But if you are a couple and you're
listening to this, you know, when a woman says, ye,
I don't do anything for my birthday, it's fine.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
Doesn't that mean you're supposed to?
Speaker 3 (18:24):
But then also as women, we need to say what
mean to me what we say, and if we want
a little something for a birthday, then just say.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
It, especially if you're going through a divorce.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Like I'm going to hear that, I'm gonna go, Okay,
I'm not doing any I'm not gonna go Oh, what
she really means is I need to do something for
even though we're getting divorced, right, are you crazy?
Speaker 3 (18:47):
I know, But I'm encouraging women especially I think at times,
for whatever reason, we do that. And that's just one
example of sometimes how we show up of just trying
to not be not make anything a bit dealer, wanting
it to just sort of happen without us having to
say anything. And so then we casually say something like that,
(19:08):
and then we get sad when nothing happens when we
shouldn't because we didn't say what we meant. All right, Ben,
thanks for joining and Ben, we'll be back for the
Q and A co parenting Q and A with an.
Speaker 4 (19:22):
Expert because we're not experts. That's our tagline.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
This seems really long.
Speaker 4 (19:25):
Yeah, we'll work it.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Seems long.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
We've got some fine tuning to do. Can you post
about the episode on LinkedIn? No?
Speaker 4 (19:35):
Okay, bye bye
Feeling Things with Amy & Kat News
Host
Amy Brown
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